Shutdown Fullcast - Shutdown Fullcast 5.02: This is a Seattle Seahawks Podcast Now, With Mina Kimes of ESPN Mag

Episode Date: March 29, 2017

Ryan was sick for this edition of the Shutdown Fullcast, so we got ESPN's own Mina Kimes to join us to discuss an extremely important college football team: The Seattle Seahawks. Mina is now a featured member of the cast; Ryan has been reassigned to the mail room.   Other topics discussed:  --Nick Saban gets out of a helicopter, which is the only actual news --A brief survey of the Washington Huskies’ recent dark years --Why the Pac-12’s deep relaxing chill might give college talent better prospects as professional football players --Pete Carroll’s ability to hypnotize the mothers of recruits with his sheer animal charisma --The discomfort of referring to anyone as a “twelve” outside of the context of professional wrestling --Mina discloses her experience playing The Undertaker in wrestling matches with her brother, and how she sells a Stunner --Celebrations in the football and how a discussion of Korean bat-flipping gets us to the story where Mina does the spinning Homer dance on the floor in the name of doing her job as a journalist --Proven: Jerry Rice is the best Twitter user on the planet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the shutdown fullcast. I have good news and I have some bad news and then I have some good news. The good news is that Ryan's sick. Woo! So for all of you who say Fire Nanny, it's really like only eight people and they don't mean it. But for the purposes of this gag, we'll play along. Yeah, Ryan's sick so he can't make the show. And it's not like this show's given level of audio quality.

could really stand a scratchy, patchy voice. We might not even notice it. He could just blame it on our usual signal interruptions. I am Spencer Hall, the editor at large of SBNation.com, founder of Every Day Should Be Saturday. Y'all know me. Joining us always, not sick at all, because Kennesaw stay strong. Jason Kirk, say hi. Hey, what's happening?

We do have a third because we can't have a podcast without three members. We figured we get somebody who was used to working kind of, you know, on the fly in a three-person situation and won't mind getting talked over or talking over somebody else. Or both that could happen. So we asked friend of the program, Mina Kimes, of ESPN, the magazine, to join us. I like that my qualification is that I'm used to working on something with three people. That's what you went with. That is more. Of all the things.

it's like we have a boat that has to be like a three-person paddle boat that's what this is this is really this is really a bobsled event and somebody fell out and we're just like you're the person in the middle all we need you to do is like sprint real hard and try and jump in the other two people do everything else i feel like replacing nanny with me probably lowers the average pitch of the voice by a few levels no that's the thing that's the thing thing i think our our uh our pitch is holding steady no i think we're a good full note or two lower you'll also note meena where we both jason i'm going to go ahead and and guess that you are recording outside correct uh yeah can you

not hear my beautiful bird friends no because i can't hear them over my beautiful bird friends so you're outside as well why would i not be here in glorious georgia it's like 71 degrees and perfect and the bugs really haven't woken up and decided to assert their power yet. Mina, you are joining us from sunny, beautiful. Are you in Los Angeles right now? I am, yeah. I don't know if you know this.

I live two houses down from Holly Anderson. And in like true sort of journalist fashion, do you two ever see each other? I have a bet. No. We have definitely DM'd more than we've actually seen each other since I moved here. That's true. Those are cat

rules, right? Like like journalists with other journalists are like yeah i'm moving right down the street it's like yes we'll dm we'll never see each other i'll dm you we could set up we could actually set up a tin can telephone that is how close we are but we have not seen each other that much you have a very crowded neighborhood for people whose names are at least known uh patten oswald lives in your neighborhood really i didn't know that wow i thought you were going to say brian phillips who's who's that noted luminary uh right wow patin oswald i haven't seen him walking around. Yeah, I know

he, he lives in your neighborhood. There's like a, there's like a, there's like a judge on your street. Like a judge. Which I always thought, man, if you're a judge, you should be doing better than me. Wait. Wait. What does like a judge mean? Uh, I mean, it is a judge with

like, you know, some 40 year old vernacular put over for emphasis. A, and actual judge. This is a state, California, that actually has laws, Jason. Okay. I thought you meant, like, he's a judge of the streets or something like that. Like Judge Judy, maybe. Like, like, Terry Cruz lives on the street. He's the happiest judge of the streets ever. Like, don't do that. He's like a judge.

I respect his authority more than many states' legal systems, so I'm totally here for this. Speak. Yeah, sorry. No, no, no. See, this is why it's good. You were saying? No, nothing. Nothing. What are you going to ask? She fits in perfectly. Yeah, see, this is, that's exactly what we have to talk about. We wouldn't have this incredible dynamic if there weren't three people. This seamless chemistry.

It's an exact formula that cannot be altered. Remember, if you want a stable system, make sure it has three parts. That's a universal rule, right? Stars, relationships, executives. like that's that's definitely what you want are three that's nobody gets cut out in that you actually gave us a segue me not because you said nothing and that again is what we have to discuss Jason I believe there's a whole heaping hot load of nothing in terms of the college football universe this week like the only thing that's happened for me of note is that I'm gonna try and

tell this dog to shut up okay so that's your dog because I know Mina has a dog my dog is being quiet and good. Okay, I think we're good. Okay. The only thing I have in terms of news is a picture of Nick Saban exiting a helicopter. Hang on, hang on. Brother, you said we had nothing to talk about. Now you're trying to tell me this picture of aviation Nick Saban.

Mina, now you cover multiple sports. You're primarily, I would say, a Seahawks fan by identification, correct? Yeah, so NFL is my main beat, but I, also follow college football, and I'm a Huskies fan. Okay, because you're from the Pacific Northwest, correct? Yeah, and my dad went to University of Washington, so I kind of inherited that allegiance. Writing down the notes here, right? Genetically transmitted. Okay, good. I'm proud to say, I'm also just like, I did not pay attention to Husky football from

like 2005 through 15, which I time well, and completely just left onto that. the bandwagon this year so i'm caught up that's superb you didn't miss much yeah if you had timed it perfectly you'd have gone and i left on the bandwagon just short of the playoffs i missed them extremely dark years too from from what i gathered yeah you missed how as dark as they get you missed my one of my favorite games ever which was the 2008 apple cup the two are you do you remember the 2008 apple cup Or do I... I'm booing it out, but refresh me. Tell me you do not.

And that's where I can just jukebox, right? The crapple cup came up. So I'm excited... Yes. It's explaining to me what that means. Yes, yes. If you'll remember one of the all-time gamers ever written, we have cited it on this podcast, and I will cite it again.

I would read this every week. We cite it like once a month. At least. Ted Miller. Ted Miller wrote one of the greatest gamers ever and it was the Apple Cup 2008 where he covers and compares it to plan nine from outer space jiggly giggly giggly the ben affleck Jennifer gillie okay gilly does it does it deserve a proper pronunciation giggly giggly giggly you know that giggly movie uh giggly the 76 Tampa bay

buccaneers steve's pretty quarterback that team the 2003 detroit tigers The toilet bowl between Kansas and Kansas State, 87, which finished in a 17-17 tie and one victory between the two teams. He compares them to all of them in the first three paragraphs. It ended, it ended in a 13-13 tie and finished at a 16-13 tie in overtime and miserable weather. You chose very wisely to just tune out for those years, Mina. With this, wasn't that a, oh, that was Jake Locker's injured year, right? I'm trying to put it in the 2008.

I enjoy when I try to look up Jake Locker. It says, were you looking for Jack Locker? And Jack Locker isn't even famous. They're just like, not. Man. Were you looking for someone else? Like, who could say when his college career began and ended like all 11 years of it? You are correct.

That was his injured year. He was only, I think he only, I think he only, played what like four games five years yeah and he got right her yeah they're because i was okay i just put up the roster usually on these those huskies rosters you can still find one or two NFLers i mean germain curse was on the team back then uh seahawks wide receiver but it was pretty barren back then yeah that's um that that's another thing by the way you should also know the fourth google result for jake locker when you get up is jake locker out of the NFL and back at home fourth result like good good for him like good for him i like day clock he's just a big

old like he and tim tibo kind of came up at the same time and i was just like yeah man that's just like a kea like that's just the variation right like one's the one's the rondo one's the sorrento they're just big old lovable sort of minivans of quarterbacks just plowing through things without a care and like like minivans after four years you kind of want to, you know, jump off that particular train if you can. He was like the T-Low. Yeah, but no, that's cruel. He did take place, though. Do you remember the BYU-W Washington game?

Were you there around for this? Was it before 2015? I believe this was the 2009 game where Jake Lager. No, that was my dark period. Yeah, Spencer, you got to pay attention to the parameters here. This isn't really bad that you bring someone on the podcast. and immediately subject them to their darkest period as a fan of particular team, right? No, but she didn't watch any of it, so it doesn't matter.

When Jay Glocker throws the ball up in the air and gets an unsportsman-like penalty, it gives BYU another chance, which they take. It's so weird. It's so weird now. Even the Huskies, you know, weren't, I mean, the last year they really broke out, but even the last three years, they've had so many NFL prospects, first rounders even. and it's so weird to think of any of these guys playing on those teams. You know, like your, forget your John Ross's. I mean, more like your Cacahas or your Shelton's.

I just can't even visualize them being on those Jake Locker era rosters. Yeah, like the three All-American slash first rounders, I believe, on that, like, 2014 team. It was like a 7 and 6 team with a third of the defense was first team All-American. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, this is a pattern we noticed. with Cal when you start listing Cal players it does not match up with your existing opinion of the Cal football program right yeah it's interesting why do you think that is sometimes with college team i mean Washington too as the best basketball player in the country and you know terrible team

that's a little easier to understand but why do you think that can happen where a college team can have so many players go into the draft and even succeed in the NFL but it didn't just come together I guess if you just don't have a quarterback that helps not one go ahead One theory that we've had sort of, well, we meaning like me and Bud Elliott, who is not impressed with West Coast football, is that in a league with like smaller linemen, which traditionally you're going to see more like 290, 300 pound linemen than like 3.30, 340, like it's just a different sport that I think if you look specifically at pass rushers, especially, it's just not the same quality. You know, and you can look at like what translates to the NFL level, like

very few Pac-12 pass rushers, you know, translate at the next level. And, like, that's not to say Pac-12 teams aren't good. Like, we see every year that they are. It just seems like the talent just, I don't know. It just doesn't quite click. I think it's this. I think it's that the depth isn't quite the same. So your skill players are just as good.

You just don't have that massive sort of flotilla in the middle of, like, service ships, right? guys who are who are the three and four stars at Bama who work the scout team and give them good reps during the week and then fill in seamlessly with injury and on yeah like the depth for me is probably like the short-term answer on that and yeah and my favorite answer on this is that the west coast is too cool to care about like being like no man stop bra yeah and i mean all this is with like you know if USC hadn't gotten busted for a player like driving a car they might have won another title or two oregon almost beat an SEC team for a title so like it's not like we don't mean to shit on the pack 12 or anything like that it's just yeah i think i think it's that's your theory is

really valid i mean it certainly was born out in the udubama game right where you did have all these skill players on offense and defense some of the dbs on udu just making incredible plays but then at the end of the day Bo Scarborough runs 5,000 yards I think he's still running actually past our defense and nobody can tackle him we're just not meaty like there's just no like protein in the sandwich or something

I don't think but when you're talking Bama it's I mean that's different they make everybody look like that except for Clemson yeah except for Clemson Clemson who makes Bama look fat and slow you know Bama you looked all fat and slow out there so cute like little panda's running around

the other thing too with with Washington there's two things actually one I think there's an interesting story to be done on different teams coming into the league and what leagues actually produce players via longevity right how much wear and tear you have when you come in the league because I don't think I've ever seen anybody kind of look at which programs actually bang up their players Jason I'm not mentioning any programs in particular that we were just talking about because I think that'd be unfair. It'd be unfair, right? Certainly not one that we just made a joke about a player running for more than a mile.

No, or, you know, somebody getting like 2,000 carries in a season, you know, as a, as a college player, right? Like, you know, rhymes with Herrick Denry. I mean, that would be, that'd be weird, right, if you got, like, that many, if you got, like, a zillion carries. And, yeah, the question there, though, is that some programs really do, like, wear out their players. And I wonder if the Pact 12, you know, accidentally is producing pros who come into the league with less wear and tear. Or even with, you know, in the case of somebody like Richard Sherman, it's interesting to me because, you know, his position wasn't even really settled, right? Yeah. Interesting, yeah.

Yeah. So I kind of wonder if there's more room to grow. In other words, do you max people out at a place a football mill like Alabama? makes it sound like a puppy mill that's so sketchy maybe kind of a valid and sketchy comparison but you know they mass produce these players

and you know build them up to a certain level and there's really not much more they can do to develop them whereas in the pack 12 maybe that pressure isn't there and you have people who are going to look a lot better in the pros because there's just unmind potential you have these pack 12 puppies that are just so

grateful for any attention and love and they're just cling to you and learn the place. Yeah, I think there's some, I mean, you know, actually, I was just talking to someone about this other day. My NFL team, the Seahawks, haven't had success drafting from Bama in how many years? Let's see. Let me pull this up. They've drafted a few guys in the first round. So, yeah, not since Sean Alexander. So it's been years. And they've, and they've had a lot of guys kind of bust. James Carpenter was the big one a few years ago. He was the first round pig, and he ended up not being very good at all.

So I wonder if there's some truth to that. I mean, it'll be interesting, again, with the Pact 12 next year, given that the best quarterback in the country, in my opinion, resides in that conference, seeing if that goes anywhere. I will say Pete Carroll always has a that guy draft for the college fan. That Pete Carroll always drafts these guys. And we go, yeah, that guy! Yeah!

Like, not only cult favorites, but guys that we knew were good, right? And people who... Not, I don't want to say under the radar, but like who? Well, like the Kansas, the little Kansas statewide receiver, I'm blanking on the name. Tyler Lockett, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was he a college darling? Oh, every college fan would have said, that's the first round pick.

I think he went in the second or third. But as soon as he went, it was finally, fucking finally. And Russell Wilson was the same way. Bruce Irvin. Bruce Irvin. I remember Bruce Irvin when he was drafted, he was called a reach. Oh, big time. That was panned.

Yeah. That was the same draft as Russell. You know, he was the first pick and the Seahawks were given an F, I think, by Mo Kuiper. My colleague, with the pick, that was the Russell Wilson draft. And I think Bobby Wagner was that draft, too, who's gone on to become one of the best linebackers in the NFL. So, yeah, that's a draft for Lockett, by the way. He was a second round pick, and they traded up for him, and that pick was panned as well. Or Paul Richardson?

Like the 2014 draft, you know, when they took it. was Paul Richardson, you know, Paul Richardson caught, you know, some astonishing passes this year. And there was that like, man, Paul, Paul Richardson's finally like, the lights coming on. Anyone who watched him at Colorado where he had nothing throwing to him and nothing blocking for his quarterback and just catching everything within a 20-foot radius, he was astonishing. Like, I think against one game, Paul Richardson has like, like, I think he had like 200 yards receiving against USC, right? And not the best USC team, but still, like, eye-popping late-night numbers.

And I think my theory is that Pete watches the games that are always on the B-deck on college football Saturday, right? Like the under-the-radar game, like, you could be watching Oklahoma, Texas. But over here, there's somebody Pete Carroll's going to draft who's going off, right, for like 10 tackles or 200 yards. He's watching the game on the dark web. Yeah. Do he think he has like. Starping the dark web. I love that.

Like, is it, I mean, not every college coach translates to the NFL. Like, Lord knows we've seen that bust before. But do we think his, you know, the fact that he was an excellent college scout and recruiter and coach for a long time is like, you know, giving him more of a more of a sense for these players than other NFL types? I don't know if it's a talent. I mean, so much of Pete Carroll's recruiting was, I think, not even so much about his eye as it was his silver tongue. Right? I mean, he was going after blue chick, like he was going after guys who were really well known and winning. I never forgot a few years ago. I had this weird night where I watched a Seahawks game with Patrick Peterson's mom at her house. And she told me this story. Every time Pete Carroll appeared on the screen, she would visibly swoon. Like, just put her hand in her heart. And so she was like, I never forgot. That. man like when he was recruiting Patrick what a charmer she's just like the sound of his voice

I just love him and the Seahawks were crushing Arizona in this game and she just was like oh Pete there he is again so I had this really like this guy charms the the bejesus out of players moms and their grandmas and you know that was kind of his thing back then he's he was I never really like I always knew the agro side I did not know the charming ladies man angle on that. Oh, my God. Seriously? No, no, no. I mean, I knew other angles of that story. Let's put it that way. I did not know that in the context of recruiting. Have you ever seen Pete Carroll with his shirt off? The man is ripped. He's swole. He's like the oldest coach in the NFL and he has like the

bod of a 35 year old. Yeah, he used to do this USC swim fundraiser and Will Ferrell. would show up with his giant appendectomy scar in a speedo with, you know, everything hanging out, and that was real funny. But then he would be right next to this like 38-year-old, very fit neurosurgeon. And you go, wow, who is that? It was Pete Carroll. Like, who's that actor taking a break from filming Viagra commercials? Oh, wait.

It's an NFL coach. I'm going to tell you. He's jacked. Yeah, he's too hot for Viagra commercials. Like, he wouldn't be relatable, right? Because it wouldn't be like... Not believable. Be Carol in the one bathtub on the mountain.

In the one. Next to the Seahawks mascot or whatever. Just recruiting. Just him up there. Watch the tape. Just on face-time with somebody's mom. Hey, how you doing? Win forever.

Yeah, win forever. It's just so beautiful out here on the West Coast. The energy's so good. So good. I know that you're in where? Mobile, Alabama. Yeah, that's fine. You know, you could, of course, you know,

you could go with the Texans and live in Houston, or you can just come up here where we've got pans to sunrise with phone, right? Like, and there was the story, this came out a few years ago, and a bunch of other teams have probably copied it. But Pete does actually recruit at the NFL level. Like, the UDFA program in Seattle is, like, far developed beyond. And, like, you know, they have extensive literature and research. And, like, or if you come sign with us, you have an X percent chance of actually playing,

which is the tops in the league. And I'm sure other teams have copied this, but. Yeah, there's like an infant. infamous PowerPoint. And it's true. They do have the most undrafted players on their roster by like a crazy amount. By the way, I love that I've successfully turned your college football podcast into a Pete Carroll Seahawks podcast. This is the Seahawks program. It's a Seahawks full cast. Seahawks full call. Also, you do have, I do hate to interrupt the boots on the table comfort of this discussion, but there's an issue that you have a feud over a piece of intellectual

property that Seattle claims and that another team. I don't want to call them a college team because I feel like that does a disservice to both the loyalty, iconography, and near the transcendent religiosity of the team. An East Texas militia. A way of life. That would be. be the Texas A&M 12 man. Where do you stand on this issue? You can ignore the law.

We're friendly with that here. Okay. By the way, A&M kind of falls into the category we're talking about earlier of teams where holy smokes, some of the NFL talent that's come out of there, yet they haven't been better. That's, you know, there's an issue. But that's tabling that discussion, the whole 12th thing,

it's like, you know, when you're dating someone and you love everything about them. But they have like a weird sweater that they wear all the time. And you just have to like grin and bear it even though it's embarrassing. And you just, you don't really want to bring them to parties because you're like kind of embarrassed to them. But they're great at home. Sometimes I feel that way about the Seahawks because of the fan base and because of the 12s thing. And especially the 12s, like when they call us the 12s.

what they do that they do that and it's embarrassing and I'm not I don't it's like I it's we are 12s or the 12th man it's it's kind of surpassed parity at this point I I'm not proud of it I don't even like when they're having this battle with A&M I'm not going to fight for the right to retain the 12s I don't want to be a 12 I wish to disassociate I want to be separated from that narrative I it seems to be like that term is just it's a little off key if it were wrestling and you called your fans 12s right like that'd be fine right like what's up 12s right right like that would be fine but like it's not quite it's a little too campy for the NFL which just doesn't do camp right like I mean if you come around here and say um I just saw a bunch of 12s I mean that that that means I just saw a bunch of cops so you're probably going to want to go somewhere else. I didn't know that was the thing. I don't think you want to say that in Seattle either.

Like, that's a riot town. That's an anarchist town. After the Super Bowl, they celebrated, and there was this kind of viral shot of a bunch of CX fans waiting for the light to cross the street as they were rioting, which definitely captures the fan base to some degree. It's weird, though, man. Like, that town, you know, 10 years ago was the mania,

and just kids walking around in Russell Wilson, Jersey. It's all very new and strange. Yeah, by the way, the explanation for Texas A&M also being a Pact Hall type school, it's just like a little slice of Portland in the middle of Texas. Just climatically and like, you know, culturally, college station is basically banned Oregon. Some great third-way to coffee there. But also militant. So it's one of those Oregon militias, like one of those hole up in a federal reserve kind of Oregon towns.

Yeah, right. That really happened. That and I know that you have to go. We have already stolen so much of your time. So you're like a listener now, basically, if you made it this far. None of them do, so thank you for bearing with us and discussing the Seahawks on the Seahawks podcast. That was great. This is phenomenal.

I think we're all 12s now. If you look down, you might have the mark of the 12. Just got sworn in. 12 pock in the ring. What's up, 12s? I just inducted you with my voice. I have two questions left. One, are you a wrestling fan at all?

Um, I don't mean wrestling. I mean, as Bumani Jones would say, wrestling. You mean like doing it myself or watching because, um, oh, do you have an in-ring alter ego? Um, well, so I, I am a little sister of an older brother, so I naturally grew up. You know, you kind of, it's like intoxicating like the smell of a fart that never goes away. It was just in my nostrils at all times during the, you know, stone cold era. So I had to watch a lot of wrestling. and, you know, be on the receiving end of stunners growing up. That's good. Can you sell it? That's the important part with the stunner. It's not taking the stunner because everyone at one point will take a stunner.

It's how you sell it. I had experienced a lot of real pain. Okay. You're really bringing me back. So the answer is yes then, very authentic. Oh, no. Oh, gosh, I just had another traumatic memory. Because I have long, dark hair.

My brother would make me be the. Undertaker. Wow. And I would comment, you've seen Ringu, right? My rendition of The Undertaker was kind of like to be act like Ringu as I walked in. Never look at the Titan Tron.

This is, see, this is brilliant though, because if the W.W.E. sold the Ringu curse, you'd have to, what, get the next stadium to watch it? So, like, this is just passing it forward, right? This is like, this fits with their

business model. If Vince could do this, he would. I think what Vince do is you would never be able to stop watching the WWE network. I have no idea how we got here, but I'm just, I'm just impressed that you played The Undertaker because I've met you. That would not be, that would not be the physical fit. You're not taker sized. You're not 610, right? You see me more as a triple H? Yeah, I think you're definitely in the triple H mode, right? Maybe, uh, let's see, who's, who's Bronze Roman? Yeah, definitely in the Bronze Roman mode. Um, that would be, Jason, who is your wrestler? We figured this out once, like who your actual alter, uh, like my best comparison? Yes, yes. Like, yeah, we've discussed this once a year or so, um, probably around this time.

It's WrestleMania week. Yeah. I don't, I don't remember who we settled on. no i i i because i'm bray wyatt right like that's pretty obvious i'm i'm i'm basically bray wyatt i can't get around that although right thompson is also bray wyatt so like that's kind that's kind of that's kind of hard well now there's you guys probably have to fight for a lot of characters is he taller than you spencer because he could be the big show no he is not he is not you're about the same show then yes just a foot shorter he is he is two inches shorter than i am i just making that up. I really don't know. He's one of those people I've...

You're about equal, yeah. About equal? Okay. I've met you both, yeah. I'm definitely wider. Definitely. Have you ever stood next to the big show? Yes, I've stood next to the big show, and it is humbling. It is... I wouldn't call him a smelly person, but standing next to him is the most powerful experience of sensing the scent of another person I've ever had. Like, just so much, so much skin and tissue.

that it takes to compile a person of that size. No, it's like, it fills your entire brain. And it's not like, ooh, he stinks. It's just like, it's like you're standing next to a whale or something. No, it's like a whale that smells fine. It's like a horse moving through the neighborhood, right? Like you're like, oh, no, yeah, you can't help but smell it. Yeah, and he's really, he's really cut now.

So I'm just reiterating in case he happens to accidentally listen that he smells fine. The last one is this, that you wrote a story that everyone should, read about going to South Korea and watching South Korean bat flips, which I love because one of our great enduring subjects here are celebrations. The finest, I think, canonically for us in our sport would be the U-era hurricanes who basically revolutionized how one celebrates in the sport of football, the NFL this week. I believe came out with a video illustrating proper celebrations. Do I have that right? That's right, yeah. That's right. Which, of course, the NCAA did for Miami almost 30 years ago. The NFL celebration rule is really complicated

because it's not cut and dry like there's gradations. Like, for example, you can dance, but it can't be sexual, but like, what is sexual? You know what I mean? Like, you suddenly are forced to ask these deep questions when determining if it crosses the line. much does this arouse Roger Goodell? Do we have some sort of mechanism measuring this? I guess my question would be you cover a league that that has this obsession with manner and behavior. And then you also wrote a story in South Korea baseball about these players who this exuberance has like serious cultural significance right so yeah my my my my two things here one why is why is the NFL doing this in the

first place and two what culture are they restraining specifically here that because like that's like celebration is a it should be like a part right like how we do it that's a part i think of every culture and is is how you celebrate right like soccer which is should be like the oldest most state sport in the world in europe has these elaborate celebrations right because they've it's cool let your hair down there's no you know you don't get a red card or a yellow card for celebrating there right they just let you go right yeah yeah it's crazy i think with the NFL um it's less about any moral code or sense of right and wrong or conservative you know people often think the NFL of the NFL is being conservative and I think that's wrong I think

the NFL is above all capitalist but I don't think there's any inherent sense of right and wrong that causes them to make these roles. I think it's just much more about establishing control at all times and making sure that this dynamic where the players can only do XYZ within these certain bounds on and off to field and knowing that Goodell and the league always have the last say on everything that happens is so important to the league in the way it's structured. And the problem, I think, is that, you know, like what we've seen with baseball is you do turn people away at a certain point. It is alienating. And then at a certain point, it does become harmful to the business, I think.

Like, I think the thing that I loved about the South Korean baseball bat flip article is that that seems so attached to, that seems so attached and in play with everything around it, right? Like sports, you couldn't segment it off. right it had meaning it had meaning beyond the walls of the stadium whereas I think one thing and it's like a little detail

right I wouldn't want to do like the hot tape thing where you're like this is everything that's wrong with the NFL no like that's not everything there's a lot of serious structural things that are wrong with both the NFL and college in this respect that when you do that you kind of divorce a game

from the culture surrounding it and it makes it weaker right like marginally like marginally weaker but like it cuts it off from everything else like if you can't right if you get a flag for doing the nay nay right like i'm sure that was seven years ago at this point right as a reference but i don't i don't even remember that i know it's it's it will terrify me if i look it up because it will either be way closer to the present than i think or it's been way longer the nay nay that was like

1998 yeah and it's like no dude that was eight that was eight weeks ago but like if you can't do that right and you can't be part of like a cultural vernacular in any way right other than like a hearty handshake then the game itself starts to just look like this kind of divorced weird separate reality that's not really sort of like relating to anything else this is some serious like cultural studies bullshit but like no i like the divorce from reality i thought that was good um yeah it becomes stagnant it doesn't grow with the audience it doesn't get younger with the audience and yeah it's a little thing but little things add up i think you know when people say The NFL sucks. They're not pointing to any one thing in particular. They're pointing to a hundred little things that add up to a larger sense of formality and rigidness and unrelatability. Really quick, I just remember it as you were talking about the nay-nay. So I just did, I was just filming a video with a football player. And I'm not going to say who, because I want to ruin this prize, but it's a football player who likes to celebrate.

and put me on the spot to do a celebration, like a dance, right? And I did not plan at all or think of one. So I stood there blankly looking like an idiot for like 10 seconds and then did the only thing that my body knew instinctively to do, which is I dropped to the ground and did the Homer Simpson dancing in the circles and the ground. And he was staring at me like, what the hell are you doing? Were you making the noise and everything?

Yeah, I was doing the whole thing You know, like he was so confused But the younger player too Probably had no idea what it was And thought I was the weirdest person on the planet It's from The Simpsons It's a really, really old TV show I was thinking

I was trying to think of the most dated weird Like referential Celebration I could do And it would be the George Bailey A.k.a. It's a wonderful life Where I sit at an invisible bridge rail Crying, right? And then my teammate floats in

like an angel held by his teammates, right? And they sort of drop him there and we hug. That's it. Guys, I have some breaking news. Oh. Jerry Rice has followed me and unfollowed me on Twitter four times, and he just followed me again. He's back.

What is wrong with him? I don't know. I don't know. I don't. He's like incredible at the internet in a bad way. I think it was one of those Tay Digg situations where Eferesty followed everyone. because I bragged about it to a co-worker and they're like, no, no, no, no, he follows me too.

But then I think someone professional took over his Twitter and unfollowed everyone. But now I'm back, baby. Oh, shit. You've been followed by like alternate Jerry Rice, like rogue Jerry Rice has followed you? I only want one Jerry Rice to follow me and it's receding

hairline but still has Braids, Oakland Raiders, Jerry Rice. Oh, I thought you're going to go Popeye's face mask Jerry Rice. Oh, no. He's. Twitter is tightened up. It's a lot more profession now. Jerry and Ronnie Lott are like the little B of former football players as far as following everyone.

I guess it's a Bari area thing then. Like Bariari area people just follow everyone online. Yeah, no, he's tightened it up. It's not as fun. Oh, no, there's a weird one that says, it's hashtag hump day people, and then it's a meme of Heathlutter as Joker saying, stop making excuses, just do it.

He still got it. Jerry still got it. Jerry's very good online. Touchdown rice. We end there. That's perfect. Yeah, that's, yeah, there you go. That's weird.

I'm sorry.