Shutdown Fullcast - The Rutgers Episode

Episode Date: November 8, 2019

Because it is Rutgers Week, we have given you an entire episode that is about Rutgers - its history, its highest moments, its future, its weird sandwiches, and so forth. This is probably what you wanted, right? Right??? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the shutdown forecast. We are a college football podcast. In fact, the only college football podcast on these internets. There are others, however, we are the only. A new low, even for us. Even for you. Speaking of lows, I wanted to start this episode off with a philosophical discussion and disagreement. Speaking of Lowe's, it's Rutgersweek at Banner Society. Banner Society.com

Rutgersweek.com. Hey! That's a real URL now. Forget about it. Forget about it. Our company, which this week is all like, hey, we have New York Magazine and all these, look at all these things we own. Guess what else you bought this week, Fox Media, Rutgersweek.com.

No, we too are delivering the New York market. Come on. Who are we to criticize the Big Ten? I am. They said they want more New York media. Come on. We're doing our best here. Hey!

From now on, if any of our corporate betters at some point ask us, why did you guys do a whole Ruckers week, the week of LSU, Alabama? I'll be like, well, that would require them to listen to our website or our podcast, so this premise has no founding in reality. But first of all, that has never stopped us on this show. of all. If they ask, and I agree that they won't, I'll just say that this was our welcome

gift to New York Magazine. Welcome. Hey, come on in. Bonjourno. Bienvenuto. Benvenuto. Grassy. Grassy. Bannisterciity.com,

your one-stop shop. For all things, Rutgers football, but all things, college football, community analysis, features, you know, all of the good things in life. And also Rutgers Football. Rutgers Week. I did laugh because I was simming a season on NCAA 2014.

Or no. Trying to help Jason out with something today. And when you start a game with Rutgers, the first thing Reese Davis says is, New York City's college football team, Rutgers University. Wow. Yeah. launches right into it man they don't even they don't even stay shy with it the they say that if you're playing Rutgers against Notre Dame that's a really good question I feel like that's

what's at stake in that game I mean Rutgers Ruckers Fordham would be the really really awkward place to use it also awkward for Rutgers yeah proved to me by the way that the Rutgers football team and the New York Jets are not the same team you can't same record same fan base same uniforms same exact same colors indistinguishable oh god am i colorblind it's fine you can still be a fighter pilot in the ruckers air force the r a f the fucking raff top of the morning to you what the hell accent was that can we do a little historical aside do we does anybody on this call know why why it's called ruckers It's named after Steve Rutgers

I wish that were true It's named after Steve Rutgers And it's possessive So first of all Rutgers is a super old university It's pre-colonial It's founded along the same Like along the same times

As a lot of the Ivy League schools And I believe it was originally called Queens, either Queens College or Queens University Hey, Queen's! Hey! Correct At some point Apologies to Bill Barnwell

and only to Bill Barnwell. At some point, not long before the quote-unquote first college football game, the university was having money troubles. So they had a local benefactor who I think was a Revolutionary War colonel, Colonel Rettgers. That's a real name. So it was a guy. Okay, you have to like a big name for Steve Rettgers was bad. What was his first name, right?

Hold on, I got to find it. Hold on. Colonel, was it, Nunzio? If it was Stephen, you owe Holly, a dollar. Henry, Colonel Henry Rutgers. Okay, that's funnier than what I said. Hold on for Hank Rutgers. We're not there.

We're not, let me finish the damn story, okay? Much like Rutgers, we're not there yet. So when they were, when they were Queens College, they were hard up for money, and Colonel Rutgers gave them a $5,000 bond, which to me sounds like a loan, but I'm not 100% sure, and a bell. The bell is still on campus, and basically this bond... What the fuck was the bell for? I don't know.

Unclear. Basically, this bond saved the university from having closed. Now, in partially in thanks, but not entirely, they renamed the university, Rutgers University. Their real game, though, was that Colonel Rutgers, A, had a lot of money, and B, had no wife and no children. So they were counting on, when Colonel Ruckers dies, he will be. bequeath some of his accumulated wealth to us. Please tell me he stiffed them.

He did. Please tell me he's still alive. When Revolutionary Colonel Ruckers, Revolutionary War, Colonel Ruckers died, he left $0 to the university that had named themselves after him. Wow. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah.

I also like... Hank. Old Wiley, old Hank. Old Hank Rutgers. Way to lie Wait a lie Get to him Well about that

And then the caretaker said The ghost of prank Rutgers Still walks these girls Not giving you pigs a dime Sorry I just wanted I just wanted everybody To have a little context for Rutgers

Listen I know that people Used to place a lot more stock And bells than they do today But I'm just like Was it a cat? Like did he give it to them I'm just picturing like an enormous cat toy Is it like a bat signal kind of thing

Ring this fucking bell and I'll come running. Is that why it's called Piss Cat Away? Yeah, someone pissed the cat off. That's right. Piss cats away. That's probably how you get rid of cats and Rutgers. Piss that fucking cat off your porch. You said that... You can email us for our Yankee Slander

at our upstate New York correspondent, Stephen Godfrey. His address is godfrey at bannerssociety.com. I like that you didn't throw Richard under this bus, even as the person who lives in New York. Richard lives in New York? Why did we hire him? That's why he's a Rutgers fan. Wait, no, he's from Florida.

He's from Florida. He lived in Connecticut when we hired him. That's right. So he's making progress. Yeah, he's moving. His slow campaign southward continues. So Richard was a rescue is what you're saying. We pulled him out of Connecticut.

In 2030, he'll be in Maryland. Oh, no, that's worse. No, no, no. I did like that you said that he gave them a bond and that made me think that like yeah university was in jail I only had one phone call fortunately my boy Hank was there for me Colonel Hank Rutgers

Hank Rutgers If I was Colonel Hank in this situation I think what I would have done is said like Oh you want to name it Rutgers University No no I want you to name it Queen Hank University I'm the feckin' queen now. I would like to know what I was met with Scorn when I asked if it was

named for Steve Rutgers. Because I wanted you to know, I wanted you to be patient and find out that it was Hank Rutgers. What in all of our history of knowing each other makes you think that that is something I would be capable of doing? Nothing. Anyway, it's Rutgers

Wheat. I am speaking of nothing. I am going to work on designing a Hank Rutgers sticker of some sort. Hank Rutgers is my homeboy and like a big big old disco points. The zombie hand is reaching up and pulling his money back down. Hank Rutgers has

a squad. It's like those black and white billboards down here in the Bible Belt. Don't make me come down there, dash Hank Rutgers. You could do that a lot more in the 19th. Brian, you just got to Tennessee. Have you seen these yet? Yeah, I have. Okay, okay, good. So for those of you who are not

hashtag blessed and have to live in this part of the country, there's some idiot who's put up a bunch of Bible billboards that are just very stark black billboards with white type that say things like bring the kids over to my place on Sunday dash God like these little

notes from God. What I'm actually in do is Photoshop the one in Alabama that says go to church or the devil will get you. It's going to just say go to church or Hank Rutgers will get you. That's a much better motivator. Just Hank Rutgers taking money out of the collection basket. That's fine.

I like to I hope that Hank Rutgers took that money to his grave right? Like bury me with my gold. like a pharaoh it used to be so much easier to like commit fraud in the 19th century oh let's go down this path you could just like go

you could just like cross the river and be like my name's Bob now yep banner society is brought to you as always by McGrift by fraud by crime's dog two crimes woof all right so we have some

some some Rutgers positive things to talk about basically you know Rutgers week as it has unfolded is not the most uplifting look at a college football program, right? No, but this is where we...

Whose fault is that? This is where we have the philosophical difference I alluded to in our intro, which is that you believe things can sometimes get better for programs. Whereas I think history doesn't necessarily have a direct upward trend. I think things can slide down or sideways for eons at a time

and that includes football. I want to add as a little bit of a behind the scene show note here that this is the part of the discussion that we all specifically agreed to be the last part of the show not the first part of the show Spencer remarkably I'm setting it up I'm setting it up no no no no he's teasing

he's setting it up he's setting it up for the reveal that he didn't read the show notes for the eighth year in a row hey remember when bud thought we had show notes it's a it's a visual medium podcast no I really we do have show notes they would not meet any other

shows specifications of notes but we don't know they're they're they're technically written with the intent of appearing on a show and they are words i i mostly like it yes because i can imagine bud getting that answer from holly that we don't really have show notes and thinking oh my god my financial well-being is tied to all of these people yeah too bad sorry that's why bud's so good at promo he has to make up for the rest of us that's true um sorry bud so we want to talk about some positive moments from Rutgers history, because guess what? Rutgers, A, has not always been an absolute doormat, and B, even when they've been kind of a doormat, sometimes beats other Power 5 teams anyway.

So each did other Power 5 teams. By the time this comes out, we may have a piece I am writing that is a longer examination. They will not be mentioned by us today, but I would like to point out that if you went, you attended Syracuse, if you enrolled in the fall of 2005 and you graduated in the spring of 2008, you got to see your team lose to wreckers for four straight years. And guess what? The closest margin of victory in any of these games appears to be 18 points. Woof. Yeah. My God. Talk shit. Talk shit, Syracuse. I dare you. I mean, they will. Definitely not New York's college team.

Canada's college team. Yeah. So who do, who do we want to, I actually, Well, I would like Holly to start with Arkansas Rutgers because it is my favorite factoid and the best way to start with a team that definitely has no business shit-talking Rutgers right now. Wait, which part of this is your favorite factoid? Do you want to share? No.

Give me whatever you got. All right. So it's kind of hard to remember at the moment, like you said, which terrible Arkansas team let this happen. So let's set the scene a little bit. It's 2012, so it's the John L team that went four and eight, which by the way, we talk a lot about the John L. Smith team being the worst Arkansas team in recent memory. I myself have said that. I forgot that this team went four and eight, which given Arkansas's current predicament, kind of seems impressive. Anyway, John L. Smith team, four and eight. Yet somehow, still won two conference games. One was against Kentucky. Do we remember who the other one was against? 2012 Spencer I know you know so Ryan or Jason I who was Arkansas second conference win in 2012 I'm going to guess old miss because that's me who's the funniest possible conference went in

2012 Auburn I need to double check that because I'm positive that's wrong looking at it now but no apparently they beat Auburn in 2012 anyway Rutgers started off 4 and oh and would eventually rise to 7-0 in the 2012 season against Syracuse and Temple and some very, very bad teams. They finished 9 and 4. Rutgers did not play a ranked team all year long. This was Gary Nova season. Gary Nova's finest hour threw for 37 yards, excuse me,

and five touchdowns. Arkansas somehow wasted a lifetime achievement from receiver Kobe Hamilton, who had 10 catches for 303 yards and three touchdowns. That's an SEC record. Settled down. Arkansas would go on to lose 58 to 10 the next week to A&M. Surely things will get better.

Oh, no. Yeah. Hey, remember when Arkansas hired John L. Smith for exactly eight months of contract work as a football coach? Explicitly eight months. Like, so you want to give an option to renew that? Up, eight months, buddy. I'm actually part-time.

I can't be here more than 35 hours in a week. Then they got to give me health insurance. That's, I mean, you're not joking. I bet if we went back and looked. They'd be like, I make $27 an hour coaching Arkansas football. It's great. Every week, John L has to write a pitch email to Jeff Walling.

Like, hey, hey, no worries if you can't get back to this by Sunday. Just checking in on, if you want me to coach against ULM this week or not. Hey, Jeff, you look nice today. You need me to come in because I can pick up some valet slots. At any rate, the final score of this game was 3526. This despite, by the way, it could have been much worse. Arkansas poured on relatively in Arkansas terms a 13.4th quarter to pull to within like two scores of Rutgers.

I want a detour on the John L. Smith notion for just a moment. If this situation were happening again today, and I am not saying that there is anything nefarious going on with Chad Morris, but I'm wondering, who is today's John L. Smith? Like, who would you pull off the sad, decrepit robot heat for an eight-month contract today if this were your AD job to, or if this were your job to dispatch? huh somebody I could feel okay about somebody who

I mean because Baylor did this right they did this with with Jim Grobe I'm leading you into a trap because day before yesterday I was like when we were talking about setting up this show I was like man this is where like Ron Prince

could really come back into prominence and then since I made that note Ron Prince has come back into prominence Rutgers offensive coordinator in 2013, Ron Prince was just put on administrative leave by Howard for... I think he just got fired, actually. Oh, breaking news.

When I left to go get an allergy shot this morning, Ron Prince was on administrative leave for alleged abuse of players. Yeah. One of those players who... The Queen has fired a prince. Yeah. That's how chess works. The Prince shan't lead them. That's called disowning.

Ron Prince, we made Christmas cards about you, man. one note on that one of the players who transferred was cam newton's little brother little cam kalan is that his name yeah he uh he transferred and this is just more proof that you should never ever cross cecil newton cecil newton and his kids versus uh college football authority figures undefeated undefeated never told a lie never lost a fight so if at any point ron prince disagreed with cecil i have like i have no pity for him anyway it goes to like less than pity. Ryan, did any of that hit your favorite factoid, or have I left it out?

Well, um, it's my favorite factoid was the Auburn of that. Um, I guess my, my only remaining question is, surely this was a one-off in Arkansas never played Rutgers again. To winsipedia. Well, I'll, I'll spoil it for you. They played again the very next year. Oh. And Arkansas lost again.

But surely Rutgers was also having a very fine 2013 season. Yep. They were extremely good in all respects, and we shouldn't worry about what their final record was or was not, or if it was above or below, 500. I don't know if we still have any of Inglorious Bastards, Brad Pitt rattling around in our gullets, but it kind of sounded like you said Rutgerd instead of record.

This is the So Rutgers won the second year 2824 So hey you got closer Arkansas That's good Arkansas Wait what other teams are winless all time Against Arkansas

Against against Rutgers Yeah The list of like active teams That have played at least two games I think is literally just Arkansas There are a bunch of like old teams That don't exist anymore But I'm I

If memory serves It's just Arkansas at this point The good news is this is a Wreckers team that was good enough to make a bowl game against Notre Dame. The bad news is that that bowl game was the pinstripe bowl. So also winless against Rutgers in multiple games. You have Boston University, FIU, New York University, the Ohio Bobcats, and the Richmond Spiders. Arkansas, you are in that group. Last note on the Arkansas series, by the way, while the John L. Smith,

while the John L. Smith era came and went, please note in case you didn't take enough glee in it at the time that, yes, Brett Bilema came into Arkansas in 2013 with all of his Big Ten bluster, turned right the hell around and lost her out of your skin. Oh, I think we got a good shot against him. I just realized I'm kind of cosplaying as Brett Bielma today, and I'm uncomfortable. Should I go next with mine?

Please. Okay, so let's talk about. Rutgers' first ever game played as a Big Ten member. This was in 2014. It was a road game in an NFL stadium. That stadium was in Seattle, Washington, the opponent, the Washington State Cougars. In this game, on the very first play from scrimmage, Rutgers threw a 78-yard touchdown pass.

They ran for five yards to carry. They threw for 10.4 yards per pass attempt. wazoo did almost every wazoo thing possible just in the first half they went for it on fourth and two from the rucker six they failed they then kicked a field goal on fourth and goal from the three and they missed a 50-yard field goal in the second half they kept the stupidity more limited but meaningful they fumbled a punt return when they had a four-point lead rucker scored the go-ahead touchdown on the very next drive conor halliday these these are are his passing numbers from again a basically home loss to Rutgers. Hey, at least he had all his vital organs at that week. 532 passing yards and five touchdowns. Why did it go so badly? Because seven of Rutgers's 12 drives gained at least 50 yards. This was, so this was the like, probably the bottom at least so far of the Mike Leach Wazoo Cougars. This was the year after they suffered that brutal New Mexico Bowl

good reminder to continue tweeting hashtag banner society New Mexico Bowl at I don't anybody you want ESPN just go with ESPN in this point Kirk Herb Street yeah And there's gotta be some of us he hasn't blocked yet You guys are real characters

This is after they collapsed brutally to lose to Colorado State and that the very next year Wazoo goes with thanks to in part to this loss a stunning 3 and 9 with their only FBS wins over Utah and Oregon State. They opened the air with back-to-back losses to Ruckers and on the road to Nevada.

Yeah, this was... But... But... Horatious. Again, this was the very first game Rutgers played as a Big Ten member. So it was like, ha-zah!

We've made a good choice. We've struck a blow in an important inter-conference game. perhaps a future Rose Bowl preview mayhaps and yeah we've been established by coastal dominance Ryan

Ryan talking in Renfair voice there made me just realize they're called the Scarlet Knights and we've never tagged them as being a bunch of renfair hebes why is that I choose to believe that means they are a regular night with chicken pox fair enough I just can't imagine

I just can't imagine what it must have been like to go to CenturyLink Field, all gassed up. This game was on FS1. It was a Thursday night game at the start of the year. All gassed up being like, okay, we made a bowl game last year, which Wazoo, you know, Mike Leach had to do a lot of work to get them to that point. Be like, all right, we're getting Rutgers. We're basically at home. Let's do this thing. Oh, shit, we just lost 4138.

Damn it. Let's do it again. Spencer, what do you got? I have Rutgers tortured history against Michigan State. Because prior to Michigan State and Rutgers being conference mates, they did have an exhibition series of sorts. The first time they played was 1988. And Rutgers, believe it or not, won 1713.

then they trade wins and losses so nay varied an actual rivalry across five games between 1998 and 2004 the one that I find most satisfying is the one that I can give you to show you exactly what kind of a hole a program can be in and how long they can be in that hole and how deep it truly can be for years and years and years and years I pick this game, which is the 2004 matchup between Michigan State and Rutgers, because it's the one with a prime number in the score. I have rules about football. One of them is this. If you could talk about a game with a prime number, you absolutely have to.

Michigan State was kind of on the way up. They were 8 and 5 in 2003 in John L. Smith's first season, not championship caliber. You know some pattern developing here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What happens if we make John L. Smith the head coach at Rutgers? Does, like, the universe fold in on itself?

Is that crossing the streams? Smile! Don't say streams around John L. That's the hot piss man. He is the original hot piss man, right? Like, this is piss heat and season, according to Nick Saven. He declared it that, right? But I think he actually got that, you know,

he probably got that in part because John L. Smith just couldn't stop saying it for like 10 years. period. So John L. Smith, good things were going to happen. This was the opening game of the season for both Michigan State and Rutgers. Just excitement. Excitement around the program for Michigan State. Good things were going to happen, right? Rutgers, meanwhile, going into Greg Shiano's fourth season. How many winning seasons had he had? Zero. Absolutely zero. I'll just finish that for you. That would be he had three losing seasons and was going into was fourth season in Piscataway.

I don't know if Hope was there. This was my point. I think they were just continuing to like edge up and edge up and edge up. And that seems to be realistic. However, if they did have any kind of false expectations of glory this year, it came from this game because this is the game that Greg Shiano manages to upset Michigan State winning 1914. That sounds like a World War I kind

of date and man, that's appropriate because this is a field goals only game for Rutgers with one touchdown being scored off of a pick six. It is ugly through and through. Brian Edo is your star along with Brian Leonard, the running back who, like a deeply

underrated running back from the time by the way. He goes over a thousand yards career in this game. The notes are hilarious because they go, Brian Leonard opens up with an exciting 56-yard run and they kick a field goal and then he rips off another 30-yarder

and they kick a field goal that's so Brian Leonard boldly sprinting toward the end zone and always kind of getting caught because there's like one long run but he's not quite fast enough to pull away from everybody this is a miserable loss for Michigan State

surely momentum for Rutgers so what does Rutgers do the next week again you may notice the pattern here they lose to New Hampshire an FCS team. That's right. There's only one excuse for this, by the way. The offensive coordinator of that team

who only left New Hampshire in 2006 to take the gig in Oregon, that would be Chip Kelly. Chip Kelly is one of the people responsible for beating Rutgers at New Hampshire and handing them yet another FCS loss. That's two failed NFL coaches right there. Chip got it multiple times.

Do you know how long? Rutgers had the ball in that Michigan State game? I do not. 40 minutes. They had 4.0 minutes they ran the ball 50 times. Michigan State only ran at 19. What would Mark Antonio do if you showed him those stats? Cool. 40 minutes, that's like almost a train ride from Rutgers to New York City. No, that's actually not long enough. That's like most of it. Yeah, that's a lot of the train right i agree with that yeah yeah it's the it's the commuting offense we'll be there whenever whenever new jersey transit says we're getting there okay that's that's john l smith like why don't you just drive why don't you walk just smile and walk it'll be fine uh but yeah

this season um there's a lot of optimism i guess after the first win they do beat vanderbilt you should know that that's a two and nine vanderbilt team but they beat vandy in nashville Just to bring one other program's shame into this. Yeah, they beat Vandy 3734 on their home turf. But yet, yet, I've described to you half the total wins of Rutgers that year because they finish four and seven. Great Shiano doesn't get to seven and five until the fifth year at Rutgers. And as if...

Fortunately, he won't ever be around to taint that football program again. Hey! Welcome back, buddy. Have they announced that yet? What time is it? Look who's back is Greggy Boy. It's Greggy Boy. In five years, we're going to have a winning team again.

Hey, everybody. Time to staff up. Wow. This is great because you actually hit the last note I had, which is losing to Rutgers basically affects Michigan State's whole season. They finished five and seven. So Greg Chiano's metaphorical and literal staff couch, Michigan State, put the cheeks on it, sat right on it.

Oh, did you have to say? Cheeks? I did. He did. He did. He had to. I could tell. He was compelled. Shano. Jason, you want to talk about Louisville, I believe, correct? At least in part. So here are the two current Power 5 schools that have ever lost by more than 35 points to Rutgers. Two. One is an extreme stretch of that term because it is 1986 Louisville. This is not fair. They were independent. This was their second year under Howard Schnellenberger, and he was four years away from winning a bowl game here.

This was like, in modern terms, this would have been the bottom of the G5. They had yet to even join Conference USA, let alone, you know, like the AAC or whatever. This is also the year Louisville would win March Madness and then decline in NIT bid the next year. So as always, everything was in perfect harmony throughout the Louisville Athletic. The reliable stability of Louisville Athletics. However, Rutgers beat a very recent national champion head coach, a former pro head coach, and an eventual Power 5 program all at once by 41 points. Rutgers also beat Boston College in Syracuse this year, and if you count all three of

these as ACC wins, Rutgers ties for fourth in the ACC that year. because as noted, the 1980s ACC was awful. So that's one. The second one is a little bit less dubious. The second one, Rutgers actually beats a power, an eventual power program as a power in the modern era. This was Rutgers winning 63 to 14 against a 2008 Louisville.

It's also Louisville. Rutgers' two biggest wins ever, both came against Louisville. This was in the Big East, technically a BCS conference. This was the final game of a Steve Crackthorpe season that began with a 27 to two lost to Kentucky, included a long plunge throughout the Big East and ended with a massacre at the hands of Rutgers. Since this, the only two teams to lose worse to Rutgers were one in ten Morgan State and four and seven Norfolk State. two of the two of the most challenged teams in all of

division one also until Clemson beat Bobby Petrino by 61 points last year Louisville's worst loss of the last three decades had been two Greg Shiano

Lurville Wow Lurval there is a quote from this from the recap of this game where Greg Shiano's like ah we tried to pull up in the third quarter but I also didn't want to be part of the biggest comeback of all time.

Smart. You never know what, you never know what, 08 Louisville has up its sleeve. I enjoy that they got to the last game of the season, right, of their last, like, Big East game of the season, and it was like, oh, you think we're the last bar of the night, huh? We're like a pushovers, huh? You think we don't have a bouncer?

Smash his teeth, man. we're the fucking final boss pal it would be like the we're the final mob boss here in New Jersey so looking at this this is also a term

I just see Craggthorpe sitting there just going like why is don't stop a leaving play over over and over and over again it says don't stop Rutgers was actually pretty decent in 2008. This was one of a handful of years when they almost won the Big East. So I also took a look through Rutgers various times winning a slight piece of

and or nearly winning a slight piece of a conference. We know 2012 when Rutgers won 0.25 of the Big East, as described by Alex described this in his realignment window article this week about how, you know, Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech all leave, and everyone capitalizes, including for a tiny moment, Rutgers. I really miss when conference titles worked this way, and it was just like, well, the tiebreaker is about who gets the BCS spot. The important thing is that four teams share the conference title. Yeah, this is how you end up with Yukon and a fiesta bowl.

So obviously a great idea. I also like it when you have The Scarlet Knight is one of the final four. That's called medieval times. So that is the only achievement in the entire history of Rutgers football is winning 0.25 of a one of a nearly dead power. Yeah, but if you round up, that is zero conference tables. If you round up, it's 0.3. The only other one is if you count the time they finish number two out of two teams, I broke down the history of Consensus National Champions in an article on our website. And, like, no, Rutgers, you don't even get 1869.

Also, as Matt Brown broke down this week, and Rutgers invented basically nothing. That wasn't even football. So you were one of the country's two best teams in, like, whatever the fuck you had going on that year. But what we're going to do here is we're going to play a little game. We're going to see how many years we could have altered a single Rutgers game by a single score and given Rutgers a piece of a title.

First. Of a conference title or a national title? piece of a I'm just asking. Yeah. You can't even do a national title because 1869 they would have needed more than one

soccer goal to win it all. So, conference titles only, please. They've been in a conference since 1991 when the Biggie's founded. Can we get a guess on how many we can possibly bump them up to from each of the three of you?

Okay, let's do this Price is Right style. So let's go me, Spencer, and Holly, mostly because I want Holly to be able to $1 this if she chooses to um so 91 to 2018 is you'll know i don't understand prices right rules that's fine um i'm going to say six i'm going to say six conference titles are on the line here or parts of conference titles all right uh i'm going to say two okay three three all right we got we got a tight window here

let's see how we can fit this thing no wait six so yeah six is that two for six two for six two for six wait Ryan said six yeah I'm Spencer Hall yeah what if you do four if you do four we'll have a perfect range there four yeah yeah so all right we already got the point two five from 2012 bank it lock it in In 2008, when they kicked the shit out of Louisville, Rutgers was four points away against Cincinnati from an outright biggie's title. We are now all the way up to 1.25. Wow. Okay.

In 2011, three points against, yet again, Louisville, away from another 25%. We are up to one and a half conference titles, y'all. Just like that. 2006, three points against West Virginia away from two and a half. Wow. We've already passed two. You chit, Spencer. God damn it.

Yeah, Spencer. Rewine, rewind, rewind. 192. Oh, God. Yeah. If you think Rutgers is terrible now, go look at Rutgers from about 20 years ago. Jesus.

Rutgers could have just not played Syracuse and Boston College at all. They lost to both of them, but they won their other four Biggie's games. That's awesome. That would have given Rutgers a tie with Miami in conference win percentage, since everybody in that conference played like random numbers of games for a few years. They're like, hey, let's start a conference, play whoever you want.

Like in 91, Virginia Tech just played West Virginia. That was the whole conference schedule. They're like, yeah, we beat them, conference champ. But that would mean adjusting two games, not one. So that does not count, meaning we are stuck at two and a half. Wow. So that's, wow. Wow.

So closest to not going over, I think Spencer wins. It is Spencer. Yeah, it was Spencer. Good job. Two, baby. Two! I just... Again, again, things can just be bad forever. They don't have to get better. So this is where Spencer and I have our philosophical disagreement. This is broadly speaking our philosophical disagreement for all of life,

but we will condense it to just football teams. Spencer, your... Let me see if I can state your claim correctly. you maintain that Rutgers cannot and will not ever be good at football again. Is that right? I maintain this. It's a slightly different opinion. There is no indication that they will ever be consistently good.

There are teams that will never be consistently good. And there is no mandate and no sort of like force that says that they will ever get better. They could just slide sideways forever. Like, with variation, maybe you could go five and seven. Maybe seven and five. Maybe you go down to two and nine, right? Or two and ten. I like two and nine because you just...

Two and not because they just get... Like, just a no-show, like a youth soccer game where they're like, yeah, I don't have enough players. They had a game fecking canceled by a dirt tornado. Let's just go get some sandwiches like the, uh, felonious Tony. Let's go get the felon Tony sandwich. Give me a fat hank. Yeah, get it canceled, dude, a butt rust.

Give me a fat hank. It's got chicken fingers and a bell inside. Funny thing is, you say we're going to give it to you, then we don't. Just take your money. Give me the eight bucks, you fucking prick. Yeah. Give me the gunshot, Maria. I'll take a, I'll take a 10-time Tony.

10 time, Tony, that's why we just throw the sandwich at you 10 times. You love it. You fucking love it. Splat, splat. You pay extra for that 11th time. That's the 11 time, Tony. Not quite as alliterative, but you know, it's better. Yeah, can I get a big splat?

This is so aggressive. If only Rutgers football were this aggressive as you're describing. I think that honestly, Jersey is just aggressive on so many other fronts that when it comes to Rutgers football, they're like, I'm out. I'm out. I can't. I got a rest. I'm a man. I'm a mortal. Doctor says my heart will rupture. I can't go that hard in every single quarter of life. I just can't.

I got to save my energy for calling Daniel Jones homophobic names. Every Saturdays they're already 100% mad about the Eagles. There's no, you cannot possibly get any madder. Yeah, you got to save that for Sunday. And then it's like five nights at the, you know, at the club. Yeah, they're conservationists. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. I will disagree slightly because I think it's, I think it's hard for Ruckers to stay as bad as they are now and have been. I think the, I think the law of averages dictates that they will get back to being what they were kind of when they joined the Big Ten, which is to say like a middle of the road, sometimes a little above that, usually not team. Like, look, when Rutgers made its way over to the Big Ten, it was a move that was like very much seen as calculating from a dollar's perspective. But I don't think it was, I don't think we all sort of realized that it would be quite as bad

as it's been now. And it's not like other teams, other conferences haven't done similar moves that you're just like, what the, like Colorado moving to the Pack 12. ultimately you're like what did they add what have they given the pack 12 that they didn't have before what they did is they were not as bad as ruckers has been like you can look through all the other realignment um the recent realignment teams tc u a and mizu nebraska and like ruckers stands out as the one maryland's pretty close here too actually that just has yet to be competitive in any meaningful way. I mean, Colorado played for a Big 12 conference championship.

Mazuz been to the SEC championship twice. Nebraska made a Big Ten championship game and got stomped by a terrible Wisconsin team. Like, you know, I think it is very hard for me to see how Rutgers can continue to be a two and three win team year after year after year, only because nobody in college football at the Power 5 level can keep that up. Duke used to be terrible. And Duke like now back to like we're okay we win some games we shouldn't we lose we get some games we shouldn't we're not bottom of the barrel wake forest used to be this way vanderbilt kansas is maybe starting to dig out of it but had a stretch where they even they were good like i just if you were to say right now ryan do you think ruckers will make consecutive bowl games in the next 15 years i would say yes

I would say that will happen at least once. Okay. That's the goal? That's a massive bet, too. That's a huge bet given Rutgers history, right? I don't think it's a huge bet because, like, they've done that in the Big Ten already, right? Like, the first year or two? Yes.

To me, I don't think that doesn't square with the idea that things will be terrible forever. Because, like, if in 2019 and 2020, you're making, like, the Dallas bowl and otherwise you're losing nine games, you know. You're still at the bottom, bottom. Man, do you know how many bowl games they've been to Lifetime?

It's not a minute. No, I mean, no, it's a massive bet against the history of the program. They've been to 10. Ten bowls. But I do think, and this is something that Jason had talked. But what? Ten balls.

This is something Jason and I talked to Matt Brown about for the piece he wrote for Ruckers Week. the best way to understand ruckers for really like the first 100 years of its football existence is a school that didn't actually care about football they like never traveled they were happy being in this kind pseudo conference called the middle three which was them lehigh and lafayette and that's it like they really were not in no way were they serious about football being a thing so over their whole history it's not surprising that like they didn't

make a bowl game it's like yeah they barely gave a fuck that they had a football team that's a recent development in the last 30 years are we sure that they give a fuck I think they do now I think they at least are like pretend yes I think

they give a fuck now that doesn't mean they'll be good shit lots of power five teams give a fucking aren't good that's not like the only necessary prerequisite but it's a big jump forward from where they were well sure i mean it's it's a contrast between rutgers where it's like i don't know if they care in arkansas where it's like they shouldn't care but they definitely do but they care a whole lot they care way too much that's the problem they care a whole whole lot

yeah i would i would go ahead and just say there is one argument for me that undermines my bad to mediocre forever and that's this rutgers has never been kicked out of a conference Rectors has never been asked to leave. Temple. Temple is a school that was asked to leave the Big East. Like, yeah, man, you're just, you're dead weight. Like, think about that. You joke about the team in your conference that absolutely sucks and has sucked forever.

You're like, oh, maybe we'll get rid of them. But your conference hasn't actually done that. Unless you're the Big East, right? The former Big East. Because they asked Temple to go. And Temple's made four bowls. in a row four right by the way Rutgers will never leave the big 10 because 13 athletic directors and school presidents like having an extra win on their schedule that is Rutgers's job

that's why Rutgers is of serious value to the big 10 my thing is like is there in you know Rutgers next 10 20 years a surprise eight win season when they luck into a special quarterback and they have stability at offensive line yeah and they and the schedule sets up nice for it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And like maybe Michigan State is down and you could pick them off or something like that. Sure. You know, that is, that is in the cards for everyone. But like if you do it on like a five to 10 year rolling average, I don't see a big spike coming in there. No, by the way, there is one way to go ahead and win nine games. Be like Kyle Flood's 2012 team and play no ranked teams. None. Just just book cake. Catch cake or book cake. Either way. Stock stock up on your confections and pastries because that's that's one way to go ahead and get like a nice fat record by the way when they when they finally do like play a team with the schedule yeah they go four and eight i'm going to go ahead and look and see who rookers future football opponents out of conference are how likely this is this is going to be fun can we grade these as good

better ideas. Okay, yeah. So, so, um, I'm just going to list other power five teams and other interesting themes they're playing. Uh, they have four straight years from 2020 to 2020, 23, where they play Temple. Is this a good or bad idea? Bad. Okay.

Um, they play Syracuse back to back in 2020 and 2021. Fine. Um, they have the other half of the Boston College series in 2022. Kind of bad. That can be real bad And then they play Virginia Tech in a home and home 2023 and 24 Not good

Here is my favorite one Zoom with me all the way to 2030 and 2031 When they will square off In consecutive years against Kansas State Really bad Real time and energy And like billable hours

We're spent being like We must hammer out this contract Between Rutgers and Kansas State The Battle of the Manhattan To play in 2030 and 31 Big Apple versus a little apple Welcome to the Manhattan Project Something's going to get blown up

Probably rock good I know one thing We're the fat man here