Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Danica Patrick and Brooke Selman

Episode Date: August 27, 2020

Danica Patrick is a professional race car driver who has broken many barriers and set numerous records. She joins "Sibling Revelry" with her younger sister Brooke for an unexpected therapy session-type episode. The sisters tell Kate and Oliver about how they both got into go-karting, what it was like for Danica to be the only woman racing, how they could be better sisters to each other and more.Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver HudsonProduced by Allison BresnickMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is powered by Simplecast.This episode is sponsored by Sakara and Helix.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece, we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special.

So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with the co-host feature. You can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia. Had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it. Five, six white people pushed me in the car. Basically, your stay-at-home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin.

All you got to do is receive the package. Don't have to open it, just accept it. She was very upset, crying. Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand, and I saw the flash of light. Listen to the Chinatown Sting on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Gemma's Begg, host of the Psychology of Your 20s. This September at the Psychology of Your 20s, we're breaking down the very interesting ways psychology applies to real life, like why we crave external validation. I find it so interesting that we are so quick to believe others' judgments of us and not our own. judgment of ourselves. So according to this study, not being liked actually creates similar

pain levels as real life physical pain. Learn more about the psychology of everyday life and of course your 20s this September. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. and what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling reverie. No, no.

Sibling reverie. Don't do that with your mouth. Sibling revelry. That's good. So Danica and Brooke Patrick, Ollie, that was. fun for me. I love listening to sisters because it's something that I never really had. And it's a different kind of relationship. It just is. I mean, it's very different than the brother-sister dynamic. And every time I hear sisters talk, it's like, wow, they're so emotional. But this was great. You know, Danica, she's got this exterior that you think of as really tough, but she's really so gentle and sweet. and well she's all about self-care i mean she really is um about making herself better and that was news to me i mean you would think that again yeah she's tough she gets into car accidents

she rubs she rubs paint but she's been into the bettering yourself you know for a long long time and she's very versed i mean she is very knowledgeable she has definitely done done the work red the books um it was really nice an unexpected therapy session type of episode and um i think everyone's really going to enjoy it especially girls out there who you know this sort of stereotype of like what a girly girl is supposed to to be or what you know femininity looks like and danica sort of came in you know this hardcore race car driver really tough and um defied all of those stereotypes well she also talked about how she discovered how she can use her femininity to, hey, you know, make money, how to stand out, you know. We talked a little bit about that, about when that came into play

for her, you know. Anyway, this was a great episode. Brooke was great, and she's currently breastfeeding, So I'm a feel you, girl, feeling you. But enjoy this episode with Danica and Brooke, Patrick. Dig it. So who's the older sister? She is. Is it just you two? Yeah.

Oh, so just two. And your age difference? About exactly two years. So a boom, boom, what they call Irish twins, right? Well, I mean, we're two years apart. Yeah. What is what it is? What is the definition? Yeah, it's like 18 months almost. That's us. That's so cool. So you guys are basically probably your whole life just like did everything together. Yeah. Although, I mean, I left,

I left home when I was 16 though for racing. So I would say that our like doing things together got cut short because of that. But yeah, pretty much when I, pretty much when she got to high school is when I left. Yeah, when she raced, like I went to every one of the races. We started at the same time. I wanted to try it. Like I told dad, I was like, hey, I want to race go carts. And then, you know, we both started at the same time, though. Did you come from a family of racers? Yeah, um, dad raced. Actually, our parents met on a blind date at a snowmobile race back when they were like 20 years old. And they were set up by a lady named Sue, which is why my middle name is Sue. So we were kind of destined for it. I was, my mom was at the snowmobile races with one of her friends that was a girl. And then

this Sue set her up on the date with dad. Remember mom was Captain Traction? Yeah, her nickname was Captain Traction. She put like the studs in the in the snow, in the, in the, in the, in the belt of the, of the snowmobile. She was Captain Traction. So you guys, where did you grow up? Illinois. Just right on the state line of Wisconsin and Illinois.

In fact, we were both born in Wisconsin, but we grew up in Illinois. So that's how close we were to the border. Like the best hospital was in a different state. so yeah we're Midwestern girls so racing from the very beginning was everything I mean that was just what you guys I mean that was literally the start of like a lot of our memories was when we started racing because every weekend we'd be together whether we were you know in the van driving somewhere or in a hotel or I mean like you're just always together then every weekend so that's kind of when we started like just connecting a lot more. Yeah, I actually don't really have a lot of childhood memories

before that. I mean, I really don't. Like, I mean, I think a lot of people, I think it's a little weird and I'm sure there's some kind of shit to unpack because I don't remember a lot of things when I was younger, but I don't. And so, I'm like, I'm like, um, Danica, maybe you should get hypnotized. See what was going on. Yeah, if you have a good hypnotist, I'd really love to unpack zero to ten now growing up like in a small town like that that must have been that moment brook when you're like i want to raise go cars well i remember like there was the bus stop like right across from our driveway so i would be since i was younger i'd take my little big bird like tricycle and i would just race it around the driveway like as fast as i could and i thought it was

just like hot shit doing it um and so then i was like i think i like to go fast i think i like this stuff. And so then I told dad, I was like, I think I want to race. I want to raise go-karts. And so in Roscoe, Illinois, is that right? Did I just get that right? Yeah. Yeah, you did. Where do you go-kart? Is that like, like, what are the things that kids do? There's tracks actually like all over. Yeah. Really, all over the country. The closest one was only like 45 minutes away. So we would just, we just signed up and got a go-kart and started racing. The, I mean, the first year we race, we went to the same track every weekend. It was like the same location. We did their whole series for the summer. But it was a way for us to spend time together as a family

was the purpose of it, really, because mom was a stay-at-home mom. Dad went and worked a ton. So there was, like, they felt that there was a need, obviously, to get to know my dad, get to know our dad. And so racing was how we did it. And what does your dad do? So he worked in glass, like, installing commercial glass to buildings, like storefronts, like, yeah, storefronts and stuff like that. So big, like even shopping malls and stuff. So yeah, he was a, he was a glazer, as they'd say. Was your closeness? Like, was it always super tight? Did you fight? Oh, yeah, for sure. How do you remember the fights going? What happened? So we used to fight about clothes the most. Number one was always clothes. Like it was, you know, we had just like gobs of clothes. Like we both were had a ton of

stuff. But for some reason, it was like you always wanted something that was in your sister's closet, you know, and it was like, you'd get ready for school. And I'm like, hey, Danica, can I, can I wear that shirt? And you were already dressed. And you're like, I don't know, I might change my mind. I don't really think, no, you can't do that. And I was like, you know, this stuff I don't remember. Yeah, Danica's like, I don't remember. convenient or just fighting stupid stuff like you know when you had landlines like we had landlines and it was like the phone would ring and she'd be like all right race you to the phone and so meeting the gullible little sister i like sprinted over and then she'd just not go i'd even do a

countdown three two one go and i'd just sit there so i didn't have to do it yeah so she duped me so maybe those were some of the fights but i just remember mainly closed so stupid and And don't forget, I wanted to sleep in your bed every night and you didn't want me to. Yeah. Yeah. I really wanted to sleep in the bed with her. I didn't like to sleep alone. And I'm sure there's, I'm sure there's shit to unpack there too.

God. It's like therapy. Jesus, you are, you have packed. You've got bags packed to the ceiling. Yeah. If it makes you feel any better, I didn't want to sleep in alone either, ever. I was always trying to get into Oliver's. He had a trundle bed.

And so I was always trying to get in to sleep on the trundel bed. Oh, oh, that's fun. Yeah. So I'd tell her, I'd be like, Brooke, I'll sleep in the bed. I'm already dressed for school for tomorrow. So when I get up, I just have to roll out of bed and then I'm ready. And she won't even wake you up. She would rationalize.

She goes, I'm only going to take up this much room. Like that's, she was like, literally, I'm just going to be like this. And most of the time we did sleep in the same. And it was a water bed. It was a water bed. bed. So most of the time I let her, but once in a while I'd put my foot down. And I'm like, no, it's my bed. And then it was this all-out argument and crying and tears. And she's like, I just want to sleep like this right here. I can't believe you actually had a water bed. Like I've only

seen, I've literally only seen water beds in the movies and our cousin. They were actually super comfortable. Really? There's so many pictures of her laying on me because she's like a cuddlebug. Like, she's always and it was literally like she'd be laying on my chest like my parents would take pictures of us in the morning it was always her like laying on me because she cuddles all the time physical touch is my love language it is that's all of her love language yeah yeah like this right here that means a world of difference let's talk about mom she was a stay-at-home mom which i personally think is the hardest job in the world so what was that like with mom? I mean, she was she always super supportive of the racing? Was she like,

did she get anxiety over this stuff? She was super on board. I mean, I think she kind of knew that it was like this common interest between her and dad was always racing. So I think it was just like, all right, here, here we go. I mean, she's definitely like a go with the flow kind of girl. So she's not going to probably, I don't think she would have said, no, you can't do that. It's too dangerous. They just decided to buy the best kind of safety stuff that they could. I mean, dad was like, okay, well, if we're going to race, you're going to have the best helmets and you're going to have, you know, the safest things that you can. But I'm not going to limit you.

When you were little, were you, were there a lot of other girls that were racing? Or were you guys kind of the girls? No. Brooke, you race for what? A few months. Probably like a solid two months. Yeah, solid. Yeah.

work out. She didn't really, I mean, explain why you stopped. So I didn't like it. So I loved like when I could just drive. I loved going around the track. Like getting better at something and being fast, but alone. Alone. Yeah. I did not like the contact. So at our little local track, it was like we would have practice with these grown men, you know, 40 year old men with carts that were way faster than mine. And they would like literally drive over top of me. And I clearly I was slow. I was eight years old. I was like not going fast. But they would like hit me to get me out of the way. And I remember like one day I got in like three or four accidents and I was like, yeah, don't really like this anymore. I think I think I'm done with that part of it. So that was literally when I said I didn't, I didn't want to race anymore.

It's because I didn't like the crashing. I didn't like the contact. And that's when Danica came up behind all of them and started just like. Yeah, I was going to ask like what did Danica? Like how did you, how did you react to that? You know what I mean? Like when when those 40 year old men were pushing you out of the way. What was your... Do you remember that? No, I don't remember that. I mean, my first, like, one of my first, like, I remember having this, I was telling the

story just the other day, having this encounter for someone that cut me off in practice. I was on the track and someone came out in front of me and slowed my lap down, came into the pits afterwards, and he came in behind me, and I went over to his cart and was yelling at him. I'm 10. I'm yelling at him and he's still in his go cart. He's a full grown adult. Like this is, this was, and I remember this was the, it was the president of a big tool company called Klein Tools. It was the president of the company. I didn't really give a shit, didn't know, didn't matter. Point is, is he was probably 50 and I was yelling at him. So, yeah, and I can remember also in the first year, I, someone cut me off or did something to me and I punted them and their chain fell off.

and they couldn't finish. And I remember I kind of got in trouble for that. So I guess I'm not going to say that I was an aggressive, like really mean driver. But I was, here's the thing about me. When someone's first offense to me will barely be remembered because my response is so big that that's the only one you think about. Like if someone does something rude and like elbows you in the street, like my reaction is like, hey, excuse me, like, you're never going to remember the elbow because I just yelled at them

verbally. Or if somebody cuts me off, like, and I punt them, you're never going to remember the little cutoff. You're just going to go down and I just punted that guy. So I would say that, like, my retaliations or my, what I would call my reactions to someone else's lack of quality or ethics or, you know, fairness is just a little heightened. Well, I think it's fair to say then that you're just, you're not intimidated. I'm not intimidated. No, no, I'm not. That's accurate. Even at that young of an age, you know, that's just part of who you are, I guess. Yeah. And that's why it didn't work out for me and it worked out for her. That's the story.

I can actually relate to that kind of, that feisty back at you kind of thing. but as I get older, I'm softening those reactions. Do you find that as you get older, that that's part of your process and your work, you know? Yeah. In fact, I was just grocery shopping this morning. And as I'm grocery shopping and this person was standing in the middle of the aisle and someone came back on the other side and I came back on this side. And, you know, it just happened at the same time.

And this guy's like, oh, God, oh, God. And like the old me might have been like, like, call me. I'm down, buddy. Relax. Yeah. But the new me or the better or evolved or more, I don't know, it's almost like more of transparency for emotions and less taking things less personal. I can recognize that this guy is clearly a guy that just gets offended easily. And, you know, I can look at the situation now that or many other things and just go, it's not about me. That's about you. Your reaction, your treatment of me says a lot more about you than it does about. me. So I guess I have a lot more. So you have done some unpacking. Oh yeah. She's, she's been unpacking

dude. I mean, I, it might have been a small little tote tote bag, but you have done some unpacking. Yeah, I used to have like a giant like expanded, you know, suitcase, expander suitcase. And now I just have a carry on. Perfect. I think a carry on. I think you can go through life with a carry on. I think that's okay. Don't put too much pressure on yourself. I do. I love self-improvement. In fact, I like, I mean, if I'm driving down the road or if I'm hanging out by myself, I mean, I've gotten to the point where I don't even listen to as much music. I'm listening to a podcast or a YouTube video or I'm reading a book or I'm doing a online course of something or I'm doing therapy. I mean, for me, I have two goals in this life and I'm given the way my life has gone. I'm starting to backtrack a little bit from these two words. because they imply a little bit of pain at times or a lot, in fact, but truth and growth. So that's, so I'm, is this self-improvement, you know, relatively new? I can remember when I would read books when I was younger, I didn't understand why I didn't

read that many books. I felt like everybody reads so many books. I don't really read that many books. And that's because I'm picking up books that are like in the self-help section. And when you're like 15, you're probably not reading a book about. you know, self-discovery and, you know, like the subconscious mind, you're probably reading a book about, you know, I don't know, you're probably reading Babysidist's Club. Have you read Untethered Soul, Michael Singer? That's my number one.

You just finished it. I just finished that one. Yeah, it's really, I mean, that was a, that was a game changer for me. I still pick it up every once in a while and reread. She just gave it to me because she was like, here, I just, she just finished it. And I'm like, yeah, if only I had time to read. It's a, yeah. What do you think it is?

about you, though, Danica, that, like, is, you know, from that young of an age, like, why do you think that is just a piece of who you've always been is sort of self-improvement? I think some of that has been because, like, she didn't, I mean, school was, she did school up until sophomore year in high school. I mean, I dropped out junior year. So, like, it was always, like, school was not a part of, like, the learning, you know, mindset for her. You know what I mean? She kind of got to learn about the things she wanted to learn about, you know, I feel like, you know, I grew up definitely with more of a traditional, like I went to college and I went to grad school. Like, I mean, it's much more of a traditional kind of mindset. And I feel like you just

got to decide what you wanted to learn. I'm just, I guess I would just say that I'm a little bit more of a serious person. And I have a deep, deep interest in the nature of reality and how the world works and how, I mean, just understanding reality, manifest. investing, energy, frequency, like all of those things have always been really, I know I have words for him now, but when I was younger, I just wanted to understand how things worked. So, yeah, I don't know. I just, I'm kind of, I just have a really insatiable mind for knowledge about the universe and about ourselves and about our connection to things and connection to each other and how we. So does religion play any part in that?

Um, yeah. I mean, I went through a phase. I'm phase. I mean, I, I, I guess I go through phases, but it's more about for me where I dive, I like, sort of participate in something for a while. I mean, shoot, when I, I mean, I used to be married. I got married in Catholic church. I became Catholic. I went through the whole system and like did the weekly classes. And then, you know, then I dated someone that was, you know, we went to a Baptist church and that was fine. And, you know, then I've kind of, I've never bought into any of it completely. I've always just thought, I guess I've found that there's a word for it. It's called omnism, which is the, is the, you don't believe in any religion, but that there's truth in all of them. I feel like that's where I fall is like they all have

inherent good and bad, just like we do. And so there's something good in all of them. It's just that, you know, if you use one as your only, I think it can be limiting to your, um, your growth or your connection to people too it's like a form of division um so uh i don't think a religion has played religion has been a a player in the in my evolution but never like the reason i have a question um this is for brook just from your perspective danica saying that she's always been you know she's serious do you see her that way yeah for sure like i think she's much more intense like um You know, everything has always been much more like, I don't know, she's always liked kind of darker things too.

Like, I mean, we used to go through a phase of like witchcraft. But I mean, like, I mean, that's just like, that's a serious topic, right? Like, I mean, witches and. Yeah, the old witchcraft phase. What was the movie? It was the craft. The craft. I mean, like, we went to.

I'm still kind of in the witchcraft face, just saying. Light his father, stiffs board. We did that. Ouji boards. Yeah, we've done a lot of Ouija boards, Ollie and I. A lot of Ouija boards. Okay, so, so yes, the Danica has always been quite sort of serious and, you know, do you think as you got older and you're clearly in a profession or in a hobby that is male-dominated,

that that became more exacerbated because you felt like maybe you needed to even be, more serious about who you are and what you were doing and how you presented yourself. Why don't you answer your perspective and then I'll answer from mine. I mean, I think she had to, I think it's like in her to be tough. Like that, that is her. But I think she always had to kind of maybe show people that like she cared or she was, you know, like she wasn't just like a weak female in a male sport. You know what I mean?

I think she kind of had to like kind of stand a bowl taller. for herself. I think it comes natural for her, but I think it kind of just strengthened that characteristic in her. And I feel like now she's definitely with like just anything. Like, you know, like we're out on a boat and it's just like now she acts more like a kid, you know, like jumping in and playing and it's definitely not like, no, I'm going to sit on the boat and I'm just going to like listen over here. I mean, it's almost gone the other direction where it's like seeking more childlike, playful, light. So whether that was kind of part of their evolution

or something she had to do, but like I think she needed it because, oh my God, so I'll tell you a story now. I know this is going to get off track about the two-seater ride that I did with her. So like this past October, she had gifted us a trip to Napa to her winery and then we went in a car. It was a Christmas gift. I called the Christmas gift drinking and driving. So we went to Napa and drank a bunch of wine and

I gave him two-seater rides. So it was title drinking. So it was a real, like, race car. It was a car. You know what I mean? Yeah, but it was a race car. So I was 30 weeks pregnant, and I was not going to miss it. So I was like, dude, I can trust her with my life, right?

And my babies. So it was the most intense thing I've ever done, maybe ever. And I've rode in, like, IndyCar, two-seaters. I've rode with many other drivers. And this was the first time I've ever rode with her. And it was so freaking intense. I was, like, screaming and, like, gripping. And, I mean, so I'm thinking, this is as simple as it is with nobody around.

So, like, I think she had to be tough and intense because that was not for the weak of hearts, like, by any means. So I think that that just, I think your occupation was definitely part of it, but it suited your personality. I mean, the speed was probably 60% of what the speed could be like in an indie car. And then, of course, you're doing it alone. And so now put, you know, 25 of your friends out there with you. And it's, uh, it was scary as shit. And she like, and she, I mean, she's kind of was got done like, yeah. And I just kept saying, like, did you have fun?

I kept saying, I could never do that. I literally was like, I kind of couldn't catch my breath. And I was like, I couldn't never do that. Like, how did you do that? And she was like, I know you couldn't do it. I think you're like, that's why I did the. Yeah. I think she said something like, I couldn't, I could never do that.

And I'm like, well. I know. I know, but I kept saying, I'm like, I don't know how you did it. I don't know how you did what you did for as long as you did. And I was in a very controlled environment. So I couldn't even imagine, like how much stress that was. Yeah. And I knew I had a baby on board. So, um, but I would say that from my perspective, what I'm realizing is, um, as I've retired a couple years, two years ago and, you know, gotten away from it and also like, just life, you know, unpacking life and evolving and growing and learning more about myself. I think I really had to nurture that masculine side of the seriousness, right? So you can be serious and be, you know, soft, right? But I think that because of the environment that I was in, there was a more masculine sort of characteristic to it. So, The idea of like being, holding a boundary, let's say, and or giving someone a truth, let's use that as an example, like being honest with people. I have, it's one of the things that I have an ability

to sense as someone's truth versus a lie. Like I can just sense it in them. And, but the thing is, is that I don't know how to, I'm not very good. Like, I literally don't have a visualization or a feeling for the middle ground between allowing and not saying anything. And, and, you know, putting a sword through your heart. And it doesn't mean that the sword through your heart is a lie. It's not. It's true. And perhaps it's necessary.

But how do you reach the middle ground in the middle that's still kind, loving, and received while still saying the same thing that's over here on this far end of the spectrum that can be a little bit sudden for someone or aggressive or jolting? But, you know, you're always safer in that middle ground. So that's what I'm kind of learning how to do is to, you know, figure out how to deliver truth in a way that's, you know, in a space that I never cultivated. Right. Right.

Like, here's an example, too. Like, you know, somebody told me, you know, hey, everybody's going flat through one and two. Like, you need to go flat through one and two, which means just like hold it wide open. You can't lift, right? So then I'd go, okay, I still have no idea what you're talking about. No idea. Okay. So say you're driving a race car and like, you know, it's an oval. Okay. You know, you're trying to, they're like flat means never lifting off the throttle. Okay. So they're like, okay, you need to hold it wide open through one and two. Everybody else is doing it.

And so there's either, there's two sides of me. There's one that goes, okay. And then there's the other side of me that goes, well, that's impossible. The car handles like shit. you need to change it and I can't do that do you want me to crash to prove it to you and so like again can you see how there's like it's one of the other right so that's this world I lived in was like okay I'll go do it or that's impossible I can't do that and this is why and so instead of that perhaps middle ground where it's like look I'm gonna I'll go out and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna do what I can I'm gonna I might crash but if I feel like that's gonna be the situation I'll back it down and we'll just gonna have to work on it okay like right there's the middle that feels so much more about holding your own sort of integrity to the situation,

but not being so cut and dry. Right. So you're basically saying that you have this thing where you just go right to the point and it can feel very aggressive sometimes. Yes, Kate, thank you. Got it. That's exactly right. With our relationship, too, I feel like that I kind of learned that about her.

So before I'd be like, okay, you know, like a more like quiet, reserved. and then now she, you know, if she says something, I'm like, yeah, actually, I do need to do that. Or, you know, no, like, I think you're being rude right now. Like, I'll just give it back to her. And then all of a sudden it just goes right back down. Like, it's just, like, not a problem. Like, if I give it back, give the example on the trip. Oh, yeah. So we just got back from Montana. And so I have a baby, so I'm still breastfeeding. And so, I mean, I was away for six days. I had to pump, right? And, you know, every like three hours, you got to do this. And she, looked up and she was, I think she was hungry, but this is the underlying thing. She was

hungry. And then she looked up, she was like, you're pumping again. God, don't you do that too much? Is that really necessary to do all the time? And I go, yeah. I didn't say it quite like that. Well, it was, you, she goes, do you really need to do that? I feel like you've done that a lot. Is that necessary? And I go, yeah, actually it is. Every three hours, it's very necessary. And then it was just like, it was fine. It was done. Yeah. It was over. See, my thing is too is sometimes I'm like, just tell me I'm, if you think that I sound rude or weird, just say it. Just say like that sounded really rude. And I'll be like, oh, that I didn't mean it to be that way. We've had this conversation before, you know, Katie and I've had this conversation before. Tone, it plays a big part in how you speak. You know, you can be very direct and forward and not be passive, aggressive, and use a tone that is not off putting. You know, I mean, you can say, you know, do you really have to do. You know, do you really have to do. that all the time and just say it in different ways and you'll you'll garner a different response you know how could i say it help me out should to give me an example no no no i'm just saying i'm just

saying if you're like if you're like oh my god like do you have to do that all the time or if it's like you know more of why do you have to is it necessary to do that every three hours like educate me for a second you know what i mean or is it why do you have to do that all the time that's kind of how i I said it. Didn't I feel like I said, I was like, oh, I was like, okay. I'm like, is it necessary to do it that often? See, perception is everything. That sounds pretty good. I like that. And she said, yes, it is. And I said, okay. Sikara, everybody always asks, how can I get on track or I need just something to help me kickstart that's sort of easy and I don't need to think about it. And this is great. What Sakara is, is a food delivery system of beautifully prepared foods that are healthy meals,

taste super good, and it helps you kind of reach your health goals. It's like a reset. They not only provide you with your food meals for the day, but they also supplement. So you have your nutritional supplements, you have teas. I personally, yeah, the meals, amazing, you know, the prepared meals, the health aspect of it. I love it. There's no doubt about it. But for me, it's about the metabolism super powder, okay? It's an all-natural remedy for bloating weight gain and fatigue. I'm 43 years old. I'm trying not to be bloated. I've been bloated for a good 10 to 12 years now. It's going down. Weight gain,

it just happens. And fatigue. I mean, these are things that are real in my life. And so, while everything is amazing as far as the food goes in this first with sakara the metabolism super powder that's an that's an that's an oliver hudson special right there and right now saccara is offering our listeners 20% off their first order when they go to sacara dot com slash sibling or enter code sibling at checkout that's sacara s a r a dot com slash sibling to get 20% off your first order saccaro.com slash sibling. So, helix, I will say this, and I've got to be totally up front. I am living in Colorado right now, doing remote learning from here with the kids to be in the mountains.

And while I don't miss my home in L.A. necessarily, I do miss my Helix mattress. Right now I am sleeping on mattresses from 1983. And I go to bed dreaming about. out my helix. Helix come back because I miss you so. Oh, Helix, I don't know what I'm going to do without you. Helix is amazing. I've had it for months

and months now. What I love about Helix is the quiz component. You can take your quiz. It's like two minutes and, you know, tell them how you sleep. They ask you all questions and they pop out what they they recommend as the best mattress for you.

I took the quiz and I was matched with my Lux Midnight. I have been sleeping on my Helix for some time now and again, I will reiterate. I miss you, baby. I miss you. It has been awarded number one best overall mattress pick of 2019 and 2020 by GQ and Wired Magazine.

So just go to HelixSleep.com slash sibling. Take their two-minute sleep quiz. They're going to match you with a cutoffer. customized mattress that will give you the best sleep of your life. Helix is offering up to $200 off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners. At helix sleep.com slash sibling. That's Helix, H-E-L-I-X, sleep.com slash sibling for up to $200 off. When you guys were younger, was there, because you're so close in age, you're both beautiful.

was there ever like a boy you guys both liked and was there um you know wasn't there well there was one one one in go-carting that i think we both thought was cute oh i was even it was uh i remember i remember grant schnobble in uh in prae hill you liked grant schnobble oh yeah back then yeah back then and i remember like i mean it was in the same grade so then it was like so he wasn't calling me he wasn't calling me he wasn't calling me And so I remember one time, though, he called, and I think I acted like her. I think I asked, because we sound somewhat similar. So I think I remember a couple times.

I think I feel like I acted like you. What the hell? I think I did it once. But other than that, thanks, guys, because I didn't actually ever know that story. I think that, yeah. Wow. Wow. Well, Brooke, what was it like?

What was it like for you when Danica left? I mean, at 16, which is a very young age, you're four. You know, and she's now gone. Yeah, that was a big time in my life, really, because I was a freshman in high school, you know, like right when you need like kind of your sister as a mentor, you know, we would have been in the same school together and not to have her there was, I think that really helped our relationship a lot more because, I mean, we used to, you know, you take for granted when your sibling is there. And then all of a sudden, you know, you put them across the world. And I think I just was much more grateful for our connection and our friendship from England because I just missed her, you know? Did you ever feel like I wish I was doing that?

Like I wish I was in England out of school. I never was jealous of like that kind of thing. The only stuff that I felt like, I mean, of course, you know, like when you get to do fun things and you get to meet cool people and I mean, some of that is like, that'd be pretty fun. And like, who doesn't love to get like dressed in beautiful stuff and get your hair and makeup done? I mean, like, that would be fun to do. And I've gotten to do some of it. But I think those were the only times where I'm like, man, that looks so fun. But I actually was never envious of your job or your role. I was, I literally knew it was not

my job. Like, it's not my personality. It's hers. It was like, I was just proud of her. I was never jealous of a racing. When you left, Danica, who went with you? No one. You went alone. 16. I will never forget the day we dropped her off at O'Hare Airport in Chicago. Oh, boy. I mean, like, I think all three of us, she was dry-eyed. I didn't cry. Like mom, dad and I were like in the car, like probably already crying on the way there. And then it was like, like her two big bags rolling down. And of course, like mom and dad and I were just for like bawling. You know what I mean? we're just like devastated and sad she like kind of was like bye guys and it was like but that was like I don't know I mean that's like I guess how that's just your personality at that time was like

you literally didn't shed a tear she didn't show a tear we were like hang on let's give me the arc of the tear crying like how would you say because I feel like I probably was like that for a long time when did you start crying well just like emotions like when you know have I always been like that? Yeah. Yeah. Probably have always. Like those,

not typical things make her cry. Like, I mean, normal stuff like, I wouldn't say you're somebody who watches a show or something like that and is like leaky eye.

Like that's not really, unless it's about a dog. Unless it's about a dog. I say like Marley and me is like the only time you cried. I won't even watch it. Yeah. Yeah.

Honestly, it's only because I don't want to cry. Mm-hmm. Like when she's tender, she's super tender right like but most like typical like cry movies or whatever like just don't get you oh man I'd cry I cry so much you'd never like dating me'd be like what the fuck is wrong with you all over cries a lot more lately I have I do a word of the year and my word of the year this year was feel so I decided recently to change that to feel joy because feeling period was

pretty shitty. Right. Yeah. No, it's good though. I mean, and I guess you know, when you think about even just the word feel versus if you don't feel, then you're living sort of like in this neutral

land of lacking joy, right? If you don't feel sadness, you can't also feel the joy because you're sort of in the middle. If you don't feel, it means you can't feel the joy either. So, you know, if you're going to want to feel, that means you're going to expose yourself to more truce and gross, right? Because that's where, like, you know, darkness of the pain and then the bright of the growth and the light that comes on the other side of it.

So, yeah, I think my word just implied that I was going to have, you know, I was going to be going into it. And I've been making up for lost time this year. This is so good. I'm loving this. You're in, this is it. And what an interesting time. You're so evolved. That's a good thing.

Don't forget about the, remember the, remember the unpacking, packing thing, the suitcase thing? I know. Okay, wait. Yeah. So you go to England, you go to England. Brooke, you're home, you're alone, ninth grade, you're 16, you're on your own. There's nobody taking after you. Are you living by yourself?

Are you? Oh, yeah, I'm lived with a couple girls. Where in England were you? Where in, I was, at that point in time, I was in an area called Milton Keynes, a town called Milton Keynes. It was about an hour north of London. And for people who don't know, what were you racing at that time? So if anyone knows like what an indie car looks like, so a stock car looks kind of like a regular car, the wheels are covered. And then an indie car is open wheel, more like an F1 car with wings.

And then, so what I was racing was basically a really small version of the open wheel car, the F1 indie car looking car, with no wings on it. So no wings, which meant the car couldn't go. faster the corners because it doesn't have downforce. So if you just think about an airplane, like the wings take you up, like these wings kept you on the ground, right? So they allowed you to go faster around the corner. So, yeah, I raced open-wheel cars without wings for a couple of years and I was there. How many other women were you racing with?

Was it all women or were you, is it total, all men? All men. So you were the only girl? Yeah. Oh, my God. Why do you think that there haven't been more female drivers just in general? general. I think my first go to on that is just that it's not normal, right? Like, so number one, racing is not normal. It's not like you play it in school, right? It's not like you go, like play

basketball. You don't go racing in school. So access to even the feeling or whether or not you like it is super low. Then on top of it, you know, it's, I mean, a lot of sports. I mean, in general, I think you think of sports and you think of guys a lot, right? I mean, it's dominantly a male thing to play sports. And so, um, so then you're, you're, you're even less girls there. And then on top of it, you have a machine, right? You're like dealing with a machine. And then you're dealing with bumping and crashing people and, you know, things that are dangerous. And now you have even less, right? Because that's sort of like the guy's willing to jump off the cliff. He's got, you know, or, and, you know, I'm on the other hand, actually, not that brave. And I'd be like,

Yeah, I know. So I feel like as you sort of peel away the layers of just like what it takes to be a driver, you keep filtering out more and more girls. And then on top of it to find a good one, I've always used this analogy too, that if it takes a hundred guys to find one that's good, it takes a really long time to get through a hundred girls to finally find one that's good. The ratio might not be that different, but there's just not that many that come through. my answer on that side because it's hard from my perspective i feel like that nobody's been able to balance kind of all of what comes at you as well as she has i mean i'm sure there's been talented well just like dealing with like extra media and not like always in a glamorous standpoint i mean i think because you're tough when people came at you you could stand your ground you could you know, be like authentically you. And I feel like that that's not a feminine, you know, that's more of a masculine characteristic. And I feel like your personality just balance the two very well. I feel like that you could be, you could be really tough, but you could also do like, oh yeah, let's do a photo shoot

and be really glamorous and beautiful. And, you know, like I just don't think that. Well, that's a good, that's a good segue into this next thing. I really wanted to ask, which was sex symbol stuff. Because when you came on the scene from my perspective you were really seen and positioned as a sex symbol. Now was that something that you embraced or was that something that was sort of brought upon

you? You know, was that something you like sort of moved with forward and... Not at all. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a good question and there was a point in time where it did transition. And so I think in naturally there's this

sort of like women in sports like think about like on the F1 grid like the you know the name whole fly girls yeah like they're beautiful like I think there's just this sort of role essentially um so being a girl maybe I tried to be plugged into that every now and again but there was a real point in time where it shifted for me as a person where I went wow because I did try and avoid looking like a girl like without nail polish and without you know makeup and you know like just wearing jeans and just not trying to highlight it because as I'm talking about the race car and I'm using my hands, if I have a pink nail polish on, I don't need you to doubt me any more than you may already doubt me.

And so by being reminded of it. So I was asked to do a photo shoot for FHM. Remember that old sexy magazine? Oh, yeah. My wife was in it. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Was she a cover girl? Yeah, she was, she did the cover and then they did the whole like FHM, you know, it's like top 50 or whatever. Ah, go Oliver. So I was asked to do the photo shoot for them and it wasn't the cover, but it was probably like, I don't know, five or six pages. And so it was like the other photo shoot that's really big in the magazine.

And I was 19 maybe. And when it came out, I had no idea how it was going to be. Was it going to be one picture or not? I mean, I don't know. And it came out and it just kind of was a big deal in the racing community and in like in sports as far as just, you know, doing that. And there was a lot of attention generated. But it didn't take away from up. It didn't take away from what I could do.

And it also kind of added to opportunities. And so I realized that I still got to do what I wanted and I could look like that. I could do that and I could help my cause because damn it they they it didn't help sometimes right so if you know in this world of duality right and you've got you know being a girl I'm not going to give her an opportunity because she sucks well hey I got a sponsor because guess what I look like this and I can help them out and so you know everything takes its balance I really believe everything balances out so you know I did get a lot of opportunities but I was judged a lot I was probably doubted a lot I probably didn't always have the best quality everything because maybe the team didn't want to give it to me at times or didn't care or didn't feel like I'd use it properly.

So I think there's always a balance to it. But from that point on, from whatever, I think it was about 19 years old, I realized that I'm going to use everything I have to make this happen. And part of it was being a girl and looking like that. And I never crossed the line. I want to make sure it's important that I never put myself in a position that I wasn't okay. with. Now, it doesn't mean that what I'm okay with is what you're okay with, but I was always okay with it. Right. Now, did you experience a lot of not okay, you know, living in this man's world, you know, was there a lot of shit where you're like, wow, that's fucked up, but I can't

believe you said that or I can't believe you did that. I mean, how much not okay did you experience? Yeah, I think honestly, the racing community. I think the backlash, I feel kind of, like backlash was like the bad stuff came more from women which is where I'm like hey it's my comfort zone but not yours I really don't care what you think and what you're okay with doing what is it there's something like it's easier it's easier to convince somebody of something wrong than it is to make them believe in something new that's right or something like that but I mean I'm sure that there's just that feeling of like if I if I am okay with this I have to re-learn what my new standards and levels of acceptance and what that means for me, right?

So it's easier to try and break other people down to then validate, justify, and strengthen your own belief system because it makes you feel safe, right? Because the ego's job is just to keep you safe right now. So it goes, oh, I don't think it's okay what you do, how you live your life and how everything is. So the ego goes, oh, man, you better project some shit onto that because it makes you feel better. I think it's also the complexity of gender issues is as complex as everything else, if not one of the most. I think right now specifically, you know, it's not a black and white issue. there's a lot of like let's just look at women alone and what women the position in a patriarch that women have been put in for hundreds of years where we are constantly vying for the protection of a particular man i mean that is in our DNA to say if i can get this man to see me as the one to protect then i then i am protected and so as we carry that into like today

in 2020, I think there's always, and then I'll get to the boys' side of it, there's always this sense of, almost like a sense of either competition or, you know, feeling threatened without really understanding why you're feeling that way. And we are predisposed to that, our brain, our women's fighter flight is predisposed to making sure that that man and that woman doesn't threaten what that is. So anything that might symbolize a threat can actually become something that you are either, you know, you react to. Whereas man, what's interesting about what's happening now with men is that now the gender

roles are changing so much. Women have such this, a different kind of need from a man than they ever did, that they're sort of struggling for what their purpose is. So what's my purpose as a man? If you don't need me to protect you, what is my purpose? And so there's that whole thing. So as we evolve, we shift and we change

and we're in a very like tumultuous time right now where we're trying to figure out what it all means. And I think you are a very particularly interesting subject as far as that is, because you are someone who is, you know, unlike anybody at a very high level, thrust into something that is more male. You are a race car driver and you are the only fucking woman. You know, I mean, how many women owned teams?

Oh, there was one in Atlantic. So it was like one, like, lower level team that had a female owner. Okay. So, I mean, you are just surrounded by men and moms. models and like Red Bull models. Right. I mean, that's right.

You know, so you couldn't be in like a more kind of misogynistic world. Even, and I'm not saying that like those, because I know a lot of those guys and I, they're the best and I love them. I'm not saying that like that. But just as what it represents,

I mean, it's as masculine as it gets. Yeah. Were you accepted? Had you always been accepted? Was there acceptance right from the get-go? I mean, nobody really said stuff to my face, but I am sure that there were a lot of people that just, right, there's a power in belief. There's a power in believing and being all in on something. And like, so in my situation, it would have been like believing I could do the job, giving me the car it took, giving me the mechanics, the engineer, all the things that it took. And so somebody along the way, especially the higher up they get, or many along the way, didn't believe truly that I could do it. Like, oh, yeah, and we're going to give her a chance. But like, believing at a level that was giving me what it took to accomplish great things as it does to someone else

that's going to accomplish great things that's a guy, that I think was probably something that was always challenging was to find sort of my situation to be ideal for me to show my talents off without being hindered by, you know, sort of second grade this or third grade that or like, oh, this will do or, you know, just like a lot of compromise along the way. Like, let's say, good equipment but maybe not the best right so if you want me to be the best how the hell do you expect me to be the best um but i feel like there's a lot of it comes down to that doesn't it like with you know it's about the car i mean how much is it about the car and how much is it about the driver i'm i've become very friendly with jimmy johnson because he lives here and you know it's obviously

it's his last year and i'm like what happened to you like why are you not winning you're still an amazing driver and it's like it's the car and he he goes it's the car we can't get the car to where we want it to be. Jimmy's not a worst driver. That's what Danik would always say. She was like, I didn't forget to drive how to drive. Like, I mean, if you do really good at some point and then not, like, you don't forget how to be good at it.

Or I didn't learn. Like, let's say one weekend goes well. And I go, yeah, I know that's fun and great and all, but I didn't just learn how to drive this weekend and then forget the next. Like, there's so many things that go into performing well that are outside of your control. And that was what I ended up, end up letting go of. Like I was so determined for so long, especially in NASCAR.

And I was like going to stick it out to get the situation right. But things kind of kept getting stripped away. And so I just was like, fuck it. This isn't the life that I want. I don't really. Yeah, because I guess I would imagine it gets so stripped away that finally they're like, what the fuck am I doing? Like I can't win now.

I mean, it's just not even a possibility because so much has been stripped from the team that we don't have a car that can even come close to competing. So what am I doing here? Right? I mean, I watched this F1 series that I really got into. They did two years of it on Netflix. And it really opened up my eyes. It's like, it's like unfair. I mean, you've got everyone's an amazing driver, but you've got Hamilton with Mercedes and there's so much fucking money that's pumped into making his car and his team, the best team. How can you lose? You know? Yeah. That's exactly how it goes. When I did before I, one of the things that I did that was helped me get a ride back in the States when I was done was this big race called the Formula Ford Festival. And there was over 100 entries from all over Europe. So right, French drivers,

Belgian drivers, like Spanish drivers, British drivers. And they all came to this track in England called Brands Hatch and did this big race. And I finished second, which was the, you know, which was great. It was best for female for sure, best for an American ever. And the equipment that I had was the leftover equipment from the whole season by the number one driver on the team and guess who won the race, the guy that got the new equipment. I finished second. Oh, God. That's just not how it goes.

That's so annoying. But I want to get back to like on my mind, which I'm, is remarkable because I have a mind that moves very quickly from thought to thought. and I forget very easily, but in the things that you were talking about, about the difference between men and women and the roles, I get this feeling right now like we're in a year. We are in a point in time, a point in history, where it's like boundaries and paradigms and cultural biases and perspectives

and opinions and this whole, like, the whole dynamic of, being a human being is being dissolved and it's time to rebuild right so as you talk about this very confusing time with men and women and what are our roles right it makes me really can i can really feel into that right now in this year where it's like everything is being dissolved and redefined yeah and so like it will be interesting to see and i don't know maybe you have a perspective but you know you talk about like the man is supposed to be the protector so if the woman is now strong and she doesn't need the protection what is the role of the man and so it leads me to wonder what is the point of the relationship right that needs to be the new question is why are we together and when you say everything's dissolving like define everything site examples of what when you say everything you know i'm i guess the everything's the never's and the always are tough words but i would just say um you know you know know, the way that everything with Black Lives Matter to Me Too or Times Up to women in the workplace or equality in the workplace or, you know, just any of those things, these issues

that are coming up where it's screaming for balance and screaming for equality, it seems as though, are being just brought to the surface. All those issues to me are because everybody just wants to be one, right? Like on some level and there's people that, you know, there's just the, I don't know, there's an upheaval to get it there. The balance is also the word too, Danica, because, you know, when you're trying to create balance, the pendulum is going to shift dramatically in different directions, right? Yes. And then it does settle. It has to. I mean, it's just the nature of energy, right? And, like, I really believe that finding, again, we're talking to just, we're talking about gender, you know, that finding the balance of gender, you're talking about masculine femininity.

This has been my work because I lean very masculine. And, and like, and even though, like, you know, put a dress on me and some party shoes, but I'm still, like, in the mud. And, like, if someone gets on my back, I'm like, I'm like, you know, I'm like a puffer fish, you know. it's like so so but the balance is is is key to everything for everyone whether male female they you know however you identify it's finding that kind of masculine feminine balance but when you throw on top of it you have a male and a female and then within each male and female there's masculine and feminine energy in both and so it's like balancing your own to be balance for the relationship, um, whatever that is, right? Because then you throw into it that,

that element of like, maybe it's okay to be this way or that way. And just it's hard. I also think that we're living in a time where people are really accepting to vulnerability and transparency. And I love that. The more vulnerable you are, I think the less, um, you're setting yourself up for people to sort of judge you or call you a hypocrite or, you know, and I, I like, that about what's happening right now. It always goes back to sort of so many of those wonderful, beautiful quotes by people throughout the ages where it always starts with you. It always starts with you. And so we can't, you know, arrive in the world in a place and see the, see the world in a way that's any different than we live. So if we live in a restricted life and a judgment life and

all of these in a shameful life, in a fearful life, that's all we see in the world. And so the work always freaking starts with you. It's just, just the way it it. But I actually, actually getting back to a point, getting back to a point, I know we asked, you know, we asked, we asked Brooke about sort of Danica's life and whether there's any envy there. But what about the reverse of it? You know, I mean, is there any part of Brooke where you look at and you're like, man, I just wish, I wish that was my life? I think I envy you know the partnership that she has I mean they're really really great partners in life and for each other and with the kids and everything that they do and so relationship has always been something that has been top of the list something that I want for myself and so yet it hasn't seemed to go right so I don't know I guess I have this you know we were sharing some things about some experiences that we've had and some that she's had that I honestly hadn't heard before. This was not that

long ago. And I generally think that, you know, we have this, you know, a couple seasons of our life and one of them, one of a season of life has to do with life lessons and relationships and yourself, really, like yourself through the relationships. And then another season of work, right, where you make money and you go be successful and you dig in and you do that. And I just think that, you know, for me, I think I had a lot of people go through the season of growing as a person and in relationship in their 20s and I was working. So I did that season in my 20s and now I'm in the season of figuring the other part of my life out in my 30s. And so, so I guess I have things to learn from her, you know? I have things to learn. I don't want to put you on the spot, Brooke,

but, and you don't have to answer this question, but if you're looking at your sister, why would you say that it's been tough for her in the relationship department? Whoa. You know it. That's a good question. Yeah, you know the answer.

You can tell them the answer. You know it. I also think, too, because she, like, wants it so much. Sometimes she, like, seeks it so hard that she just, like, she's such a, she's like all about endurance like she's going to be a fixer she's going to like ride it out she's like a ride or die like for life like if you have her she's there and she is fully committed and i feel like that that constant like endurance of like it's okay this is just how i am

this is how i'm built this is what i'm good at i can i can work on things i can fix things i feel like also that voice is just kind of it's just telling her this lie that like, no, you know exactly what is in your heart. Like, you know it. And your, you know, your strength is just saying, no, no, no. Like, it's okay. It's all right. I got this.

And yet inside, I think she's always felt like she's known always the truth about everything. And it's just more of her endurance and her will to just make it all work has been her barrier. I give up boundaries, right? I think that's what I'm learning is I give up boundaries. I'm willing to please and fix things. And then I don't hold my own boundary of like, you know what? This is bullshit.

Like, nope, deserve better. Or like, you know what? That's not, this doesn't feel very equal or balanced in effort. Or this doesn't feel very like, I'm extremely open and vulnerable and you're not. Like that's not balanced. Or like, I go to see you. You don't come to see me. Like those things, like learning those boundaries for myself so that I don't give them up.

Do you think there's a psychology behind the. guys that you, you choose? Oh, I, I know where it comes from. I mean, like, I mean, this is unpacking my shit is like, you know, I mean, you know, when we started racing, dad yelled all the time, yelled at me a lot. And I was always in trouble and never doing well enough. And then, you know, a mom said that that was every weekend, like arguing, like yelling every weekend. And then I was like, well, what did we do? And she said, well, we just gave in. So that's the person I am. I learned that arguing meant yelling.

I learned that, you know, I wasn't good enough at anything ever. And I learned that if you want things to move on, you just give in. So, yeah. You're so smart and so evolves. What? You are what you know. I said you're so smart and evolved and I love it. Just the, I mean, it's awesome.

And I think when you were thinking, about like the masculine feminine like the balance and dynamics like I don't know about you guys but I mean I see so many more like such a big shift in the way that dad's parent because it's not babysitting like when you talk like I mean our dad but it's not just our dad I think literally that whole generation like didn't change diapers like it didn't change one of our diapers like it was just that was how it was and it wasn't even like it definitely wasn't a crappy dad like you was the trip that dad took. So we were thinking, so dad took her girls on a trip to, what do they call?

Holiday World. Holiday World. And for like a whole, for a night and a day, like drove in, had dinner, very recent, and then went to the park all day. And so, you know, there's a lot of thoughts that go into that as far as, you know, what if they need their ass wiped? What if they pee their pants? What if, you know, literally the ass wipe is a thing because Jordan likes to have people

wipe her butt. thing. So the thing is that we looked at that and we were both like, did dad, do we have that memory of ever doing anything like that with dad? And we were like, no. No. And so even grandparents are being like grandfathers are being different than they used to be. So it's beautiful. Because there's so many dads that I see who are like either stay at home dads or they're super present. Like I'm so grateful. My husband is like, I literally like when we went on vacation, I was like, okay, you got this for like six days and I don't have to worry about it. It's not like, I didn't have to write him a list on how to be like how to take care of the baby. Like he just

knows because he's present. So I think that that's a really interesting shift and how that's going to like affect that kind of, you know, our kids generation. Yeah. Yeah. On so many, not just like where you live. It's everywhere. Every geography is experiencing dads who are more hands on, more present, you know, because I think that. Yeah, well, that's been a cultural shift that's been going on for, you know, a little bit of time now. But there's been an evolution of fathers for sure. I mean, from the 50s until now, it looks, it looks totally different for the most part so we've talked a lot about self-improvement and unpacking all of our shit so how do you think you girls could be better sisters to each other oh i could probably i feel like

i i tend to um i tend to because i am so open and vulnerable and because i do talk about everything going on in my life i can probably take a lot of energy like i need a lot of energy from you to help me with the things going on. And so I could probably show more interest. And again, it's a matter of opening up on the other side, but, you know, go deeper with you about what's going on with you instead of it being about me a lot of the time. And then maybe playing with the kids even more, because I'm not great at like playing. I like to do activities. So I'm great at the activities, right? Like, let's go for a walk and we'll adventure and we'll do all these cool things and we'll, like, scale down, like, the side of a hill

and we'll, you know, I'll jump on the raft with you on the lake and make you fall over. And, like, I love activities, but, like, the actual monotonous playing of, like, let's play dolls. It's funny you say that because that shit is hard. I don't like that either. I mean, I get so tired of play dolls. I'm, like, I'm literally, like, falling asleep.

So I just don't. So maybe I could do a little more of that. Well, I mean, I'm sure there's lots of stuff that I can be better at. Probably doing like more. I mean, I don't know. We like the same stuff. That's hard stuff.

Like, we like a lot of the things. I was going to say, do things you like to do. I'm like, okay, like to do those same things. And I was going to say, be spontaneous when you want to go somewhere. And I'm like, well, I kind of do that too. I don't know. Tell me how that I think. No, that's not the game.

All right, my game then. I feel, okay. You guys have to do this too. We're having a family circle here, so you guys have to go. Maybe this is it. Giving you, like, in the moment, maybe where I could be better at is like, because you're, you know, so strong and you're definitive about things, challenging you a little bit more when things come up.

Like, if I feel it, I feel like I should probably be better at letting that out sooner. Like, it usually comes out. Like, I'll usually tell her my truth and I feel like I'm pretty honest with her. but maybe not right then. Like I might need time to think about it for a little bit or wait for a different opportunity for things to come up. So I feel like that could probably be. Well, in fact, that was what I was actually thinking is she could probably be a little more

down the barrel with me. But I think the reason why you may be reserved that, why you didn't say that, is because you have been a little bit better about that. But you could still, you can just tell me, you can be as blunt as you want with me. You can be as blunt as I am with people, what I am with people, with me. It's quite an invitation. All right, Oliver and I. Let's see.

Oh, we have to do it? Yes. Family Circle. I could say, let's see. What could I do better? I could be more attentive to what he does, meaning like, actually watch the things that he does. And like, I haven't even listened to his other podcast yet.

I don't even care about that. I know. but it would make me feel better because I feel like I have so much going on and then like I'll see a little bit of it and I'll love it but then like I'm not like as invested in the things that Oliver's doing as much as I wish I was or could be you know and I would say the only thing is is with COVID it's just been a little weird because there's you know it's like usually like we're super good with the kids like we're always in each thing each other. there's kids' lives, the kids will come to my house, his house. And I guess I could also be... I need more money. Oh, God. Yeah, I could be more generous.

You need to put a bigger price tag on your free, on your free loving brother babysitting. Yeah. It needs to be a bigger price tag on that. Right, exactly. That's right. He's going to start charging. Well, mine, mine, mine is similar to Brooke.

Like I, for me, I, I wish I was more down the barrel with you, meaning, and I'm getting better at it. Yeah. But again, Kate's tough, you know, Kate is opinionated. And sometimes it's easier just to say, oh, fuck it. You know, like, fuck it. It's not even, I don't want to deal with it. But that's not the right way to operate. operate. So that would be my thing is just to be more down the barrel with Kate and say what I

feel and whatever happens happens. But at least I am getting out my truth to her in that moment because I am a very laid back, you know, water off the back guy where it's just sort of like, yeah, whatever. Well, that's what he likes to tell us off. And that's good. And that's good sometimes, but a lot of the times it can be detrimental. So that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, what I would, that's what I would be. This was like more of a therapy session than a podcast. It was so great. Shit.

I love it. Well, let's do the speed round, Kate. Are you ready? One word to describe the other. Brooke, Oracle. You're very intuitive. Danica, I would say intense. And I mean that in a loving way.

Intense about everything. Intense about great things. Intense about just it's like her love is intense. you know it's a good it's a good word who is the who is the favorite child i i will say our parents were very very good about not picking favorites and i've always said like you know danaica just happened to be on the path of racing and it required a lot of time money everything resources our whole family was around it and it would have been exactly the same if i was driving Yeah. Like, I truly feel that way.

So they were, they were very good about never making it to be Danica this or, you know, just because she was famous. Like, there was, there was very good boundaries there. Who got into more trouble as a kid? Oh, Danca did. I did. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Who was bossier?

Well, I know that answer. Yeah. I mean, clearly Danica. Those are more temper tantrums, though. Yeah. That was me. Oh, you were more dramatic. I had a lot of hard time coping.

I just had too much feelings going on. Sometimes I needed to lay on the floor and kick around, you know? The whole like arms and legs like thrashing. Sometimes it just needed to happen. And now you got it with your little girl, Jordan. Yeah, I have a daughter that does the same thing. Some like, you know. Who was more outgoing?

I would say Danica was outgoing. I was. I was. Brooke was a little bit of a home body. I'd come back from being gone in England for months, and I'd be, I'd already be out that night that I got home with my friends. And I couldn't cope with that.

I was literally like, where aren't you home? I'm like, because you didn't ask me to be home. They asked me to go out. Yeah. Who gives better advice? I'd say Brooke.

I think Brooke gives better advice. I don't know if it's because I need more. or not, but I'd say that I'd say you give better advice. But I think also because she's so down the barrel that she can give hard advice where sometimes that's not easy for people to do. Who calls the other more? I'd say you call me a little more. Yeah.

Yeah. Who's the better texter? I'd say we're both pretty good at texting and we've got a lot of common friends too so we'll be in different text threads with them or you know DMing funny pictures or something so what about first celebrity crush oh you remember mine don't you oh Leonardo DiCaprio duh that was your first crush yeah she was from Titanic like my dad was a little worried that she was taking this Romeo and Juliet thing too soon with like the like she was a little bit worried about this it was serious oh or Titanic she went to go see Titanic like 400 times I saw it

10 times before it came out on in what about Brooks first crush uh I've always like Justin Timberlake oh my god there had to have been one earlier but I can't remember not really I never was like that Yeah, I was never like that. Did you, did you like him, like, boy band years, or was this more like, you know, gone solo, J.T? Like, I was definitely an insinker. Like, I could, I was an insinker. Oh, the denim on denim, denim. Like the curly, the curly, frosty tips era.

Yeah. Yep. Who could talk their way out of a ticket? Well, Danica, for sure. Danica, have you ever gotten a speeding ticket? I'm way too blunt with them. I just tell them I can drive better than them. it's not me. I get them. No, it's me. Yeah, if I had to talk it out. I get them. I just hope that they

recognize who I am or look at my license because you can't tell them, right? You can't do that. You can't be like, don't you know what? You cannot do that. It's just not okay. So you just hope to God when they have their, they take your license and they're back in their car that they go, huh, huh. I'm sure you've had that right where, you know, officers like, wait a minute. It's happened a couple times, but they've also not cared. many times so something your sister's really bad at I don't know what you're really bad at

I feel like we're pretty coordinated physical capable rational can you sing can you draw can you oh okay she's like I can sing really good no I mean she can't

I can't drive the speed limit I mean, I don't know if that's really cool. Oh, I got one. She's not, it's not so great at golf. I'm not that great at golf. I'm going to say golf. Oh, God. I guess we tend to only do things that we really are naturally okay at, right?

So, otherwise if we suck at it, we don't do it. Who's the better cook? 100%. Yeah. She's very good cook. Like, she's very good cook. So, no, that's not even close. who's more organized?

I'm going to have to say that just because of the level of complexity and layers and things that I have going on in my life. Now, I do have help, but I would say that I have to stay pretty friggin organized because of everything going on. But then again, I don't have three kids and three dogs and you know what I mean? So I think we both have that tendency to be to keep shit pretty organized. Who can keep a better secret? Yeah, probably Brooke.

Well, maybe not. Yeah. I think that there's, it's easy to keep a secret from the places it's not supposed to be for both of us. But I don't think that we have the capability either of us to keep it from nobody. Right. What is the music of your childhood? I mean, you guys are to stay around the same age. So like if you were to say a band, like what is that band?

Well, I mean, queen. But then if we were to go another band of our childhood to be like, you know, Britney Spears and in sync. Oh, he did. We did like TLC. Oh, TLC. Don't go chase in waterfalls. Yeah, we did a TLC fan. I love that song.

Like a, um, oh, is the yellow convertible. What was it? Nelly. Nellie. Oh, yeah. And pink's early, early stuff. Mm-hmm. So good.

If you, um, could eat one food forever only. If you could only eat one food forever, what would it be? I used to say eggs for me. Like, um, uh, um, uh, But then I did enough food test that said it was an intolerance. But I guess I could live off of eggs. If I only had one food, who gives a shit if it's inflammatory? Exactly.

It's absolutely going to be in the breakfast category. My first thought is, I mean, it's my death row meal. Last meal. I love pancakes. I freaking love. I'm going to make us some pancakes when we're done with this interview. That's actually what we in the summers, like when we were old enough to stay home. Like, we literally alternated between one day it would be pancakes.

and I was a pancake maker. She was the French toast maker. And like breakfast is my jam. Yeah. Yeah. Coffee or tea? Coffee. Cake or donuts?

Cake. Cake. Vodka or tequila? Tequila. I'd probably pick vodka. Nice. I'm glad. Winter or summer.

Summer. I like them both. I'm like really not one that gets affected. by cold weather um i'm i'm i'm in a no i can do either ones i which one's yours i'm supposed to winter winter live in the past or live in the future i'm a future tarian i future cast everything a future shower or bath shower oh beetles or stones oh stones really yeah i'm not a big beetles i'm not a big beetles fan like every time i'm not a big beetles fan like Like every time I hear of someone, I don't like this.

Oh, why? It's Beatles. Oh, my God. New York or L.A. I guess L.A. New York. Salty or sweet. Sweet.

Beach or mountains. Mountains. Mountains. Sports car or escalate? Honestly, I might be the escalate. honest not the sports car it's not functional it's very true um all right kate let's ask the final question that we ask every everybody it's a two-parter so if you could take one thing from your sibling um as your own something that you admire about them something that you might lack that

you wish you could have what would that be and then the second part is what would you take away from them what would you alleviate from them in their lives to make to make their existence just a little bit better i would pick her fearlessness um like that's never a barrier for her um and if i could alleviate one thing um oh i'd just mend that heart you know I would probably take your partnership, your true love. And I would alleviate, I would want to, honestly, like, it might be superficial, but I would alleviate any financial worry. Like, I'd want to just give you the ability to live the life that you want in an integrity,

of course, not like buying stupid things, but to make sure that you never had to sacrifice. for yourselves, each other. Perhaps it might be like a getaway that you want to do or something for your kids or a school, whatever it is. Like, I just never want you to worry about that. Aw. I think my bags are lighter, guys.

That's always strive for. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Alison Bresnick. Editor is Josh Windish. Music by Mark Hudson, aka Uncle Mark. The Super Secret Festi Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in.

That means more juicy cheesement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season, we're level. up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it.

My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, it's Gemma's Bag, host of the Psychology of Your 20s. This September at the Psychology of your 20s, we're breaking down the very interesting ways psychology applies to real life, like why we crave external validation. I find it so interesting that we are so quick to believe others' judgments of us and not our own judgment of ourselves. So according to this study, not being liked actually creates similar pain levels as real-life physical pain.

Learn more about the psychology of everyday life and, of course, your 20s. This September, listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia. I had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you never. Five, six white people pushed me in the car. Basically, your stay-at-home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin.

All you got to do is receive the package. Don't have to open it, just accept it. She was very upset, crying. Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand, and I saw the flash of light. Listen to the Chinatown Sting on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.