Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Dr. Edith Eger, Dr. Marianne Engle, and Audrey Eger Thompson

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

Dr. Edith Eger is a Holocaust survivor, therapist, and author of multiple books including, "The Gift: 14 Lessons to Save Your Life." She joins Kate and Oliver along with her daughters, Dr. Marianne Engle and Audrey Eger Thompson. They share her incredible story, and discuss grief, trauma, and the importance of finding humor.Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver HudsonProduced by Allison BresnickEdited by Josh WindischMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is powered by Simplecast.This episode is sponsored by:Sakara (sakara.com/sibling)Coors Light (coorslight.com/hudson)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece, we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special.

So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with the co-host feature. You can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time,

as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. The Moment is a space for the conversations we've been having us father and daughter for years. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos on the IHeartRadio app, podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Jennifer Lopez, and in the new season of the Over Comfort Podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable, and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? Join me for conversations about healing and growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Listen to the new season of the Overcomper podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or

wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling rivalry. No, no. Sibling rivalry.

Don't do that with your men. mouth. Sibling revelry. That's good. This episode, this human that you were about to listen to

this doctor, Edith Eager and her daughters, but specifically Edith. What an amazing conversation. What an incredible woman. This is definitely in my top five episodes that we have done out of the hundred. It was by far one of the most powerful. It was very powerful and incredible.

She is a Holocaust survivor. She's a psychologist. She's an author. Her daughters were incredible. She invited me over to E. Kogel, which I wish that I could have gone and I kind of still want to go. You know, where is she again? She's in San Diego. That's right.

Yeah, she's here. I think we should take her up on this because she's a fucking legend. She's incredible. She's like in her 90s. And just on point right there, her daughter is Marian Engle and Audrey Thompson. Yeah. And she shared with us, you know,

about her time in the concentration camp and how she was able to get through it. And then what it was like on the other side, even after most of her family was gone. It's unbelievable. And then she talks about sort of part of her book, too, is how grief and trauma. can just be passed down through these generations.

And, you know, I understand that, obviously, not capacity that she's been through in her family. But that shit does get passed down. You know what I mean? We have to break the cycles. And how she sort of found humor in these horrible situations. And it was an incredible conversation. She's, like, famous. By the way, my Bodie was talking about her the other day because they're learning about her

at school. And I was like, yeah, I was like, dude, she was on my podcast. She's like, what? And then I turn on KCET, which is sort of a public station here. And there's a whole like documentary on her. And she's talking about her time and in the concentration camps and how she was dancing for the angel of death. You know what I mean?

Like she's the craziest fucking stories. It's so crazy. Incredible. It's, it's, it's, you guys are going to love it. It's really, you're going to enjoy this conversation. It's such a beautiful one. And here is Dr. Edith, Eager, and her daughters. Hello, hello, hello.

Hi, this is so wonderful. So, Marian, you're in terms of all of the children, how many kids are there? So my mother has, my mother has three children. Okay. I'm the one who was born in Europe. Right. When she was very rich and my father. And then they were forced out by the communists.

We came to Baltimore. And I wished, I kept telling my parents I wanted a baby sister. So they finally gave me one. That's Audrey. And then we moved to El Paso, Texas. And they had a son who's our brother, John. John. Okay, great.

So we got lucky, Oliver, because Audrey is visiting Edith. Oh, wow. And yeah, and so she's there. And I thought that's really interesting because we're going to, well, I mean, we'll get into all of this. But Audrey was saying second generation, you know, from a Holocaust survivor and everything that, you know, has come with that is fascinating. Oh, my God. I know. I read the Atlantic article.

And there's so much to get into and talk about. But just the resilience and sort of how that the psychology that you use. to just live your life, it's just so poignant and just incredible. I mean, it's inspiring, really. Yeah, I mean, really, it's such a powerful story. And, you know, we usually do siblings. So it's really nice to have a mother-daughter trio. Let's start with your story.

I mean, you know, without getting into too much detail, where you were born. 929, 27 in Czechoslovakia. And I know that my parents were expecting a son after two girls. So I did feel somehow that I came and they didn't get what I were looking for. My mother, that I remember very quickly, to let you know that my mother told me I was about nine years old and she said, I'm so glad you have brains because you have no looks. So I had two very beautiful sisters and I always felt that I just never be attractive or even any. boys look at me, so I became a scholar.

I did what my mother told me, to study, to study, to go to school. And I attended a very, very good school only for girls, and you had to pass a test when you were 10 years old, and I did make the grade. And I was in a girls' school, but then the war started, you know. and I was home studying. And I met the boyfriend, and the two of us became very Zionistic. And we wanted to go to Palestine and fight. We were not so peaceful at all.

Unfortunately, he was killed a day before liberation, so I never saw him when I came back. I think I like to tell you that especially with children of immigrants are parentized, that they become the parents to their parents because I didn't know anything about peanut butter or tuna fish or anything that, you know, American children ate. So Marianne made me buy peanut butter and Giffy. I remember looking for Jiffy peanut butter. You may not remember.

But Marian became the family when we had a problem. We always went to Marian because she was the American child who knew everything. Right. She was more understood kind of American culture. Because how old were you when you came to America, Marian? A man knew. So if I can just fill in my mother's mother. story also.

She's not telling you that she was both a dancer and a ballerina and that she was on an Olympic qualified team and that that was all taken away from her

when the communist, when the sorry, the wrong ones. Yeah, the Nazis. And but it turned out to be actually the thing that saved her when she got to Auschwitz. How so?

So basically when she and her family got taken in, Mangelet, my mother wanted to go

with her mother. And Mangalette asked my mother, is this your mother or your sister? My mother, you can see my mother so young looking.

Her mother was also very young looking and she was in early 40s. And my mother didn't know what to saying so she finally said it's my mother and he put her on the left line and my mother went to be with her and minglin took my mother and said no you'll see her soon and put her in the right

line and then that night after they were taken in he came to the cabin where they kept her group and said, I want to be entertained. We've been entertained with. And one of my mother's teachers was there also. She'd also been taken. And she and all the girls pointed to my mother and said, she'll entertain me, she'll entertain me. So my mother then danced for Mingle.

And I don't know if you ever saw the movie playing for time. It's actually a wonderful movie. Anyway, it's about the orchestra that was in Auschwitz. And so, you know, they had an orchestra playing. My mother did her dance. And he then gave her some food that she shared with the other girls. And so she was known for that. And who knows that's what kept her alive so long, but it did.

How old was Edith? How old were you at the time? when you when you were taken 16 and you were in Hungary correct yes she was in so born in Czechoslovakia well it's my now I think it's hungry became hungry like it had been hungry it became with it went into Czechoslovakia and then it went back to being hungry okay got it a little history lesson for me and then she um so she met my father after the war. He was engaged to another woman. He fell in love with her. He's from one of the richest families and most politically powerful families. And they wanted my mother, they wanted my father to be

a minister of agriculture. But he had to become a communist and he said he wouldn't. So then they tried to kill him and they escaped. Oh my gosh. Okay, wait. This is going too fast. This is going way too fast. I know. It's by the story. What an amazing stress. Well, let's, I want to start, I want to start with something because, you know, is this, how difficult, I know you've been so open about it, you know, and both of you, the family, Edith, but how, how difficult is it for you to always, to talk about your time during the Holocaust? And in your story, there's a story where, you know, a soldier, an American soldier saw you and gave you M&Ms. I would think that that every time. you'd see M&Ms, it would just bring all of that back.

Like, is this something that is with you every day of your life? Is this something that's hard or difficult to talk about? I didn't talk about almost 20 years. I went underground. I wouldn't do that today. I think I owe it to my parents that they didn't die in vain. It is my duty. It's not that I like it or not.

I owe it to my mother. especially because in the caddark car, she told me things that I quote today when I go to schools. And she asked me to come and sit with her. And then she said, we don't know where we're going. We don't know what's going to happen. Just remember, no one can take away from you what you put in your own mind. I'm sure your mother told you the same thing, correct? And that's what I remember for me to forgive myself that I said, it's my mother and not my sister was haunting me years after years after years.

I'm getting better. When I graduated with honors at the University in Texas, I did not show up for my graduation because I didn't think I deserved. that I had tremendous survivor's guilt. I don't know if there is anything that touches you in terms of survivor's guilt. I don't know any of you or your brother has anything similar. I don't know. What was the turning point for you after the 20 years of just trying to sort of keep quiet and maybe pushing it under the rug?

What was the moment where you finally said, okay? I became very interested in PTSD, and I began to work with battered wives. The husband, you know, beats her up, she leaves, and then she comes back because he calls her, I miss you, I love you, you, you know, but he also brainwashes her that she's nothing without him. You know, you get these double messages because she has no profession. She doesn't know, so she goes back. And so anyway, I was invited to the university, and the professor said that I am also a survivor. And by the way, I'm not a survivor of Auschwitz.

I'm a human being who went through an experience. It's not my identity. anyway he said how many of you know about Auschwitz and maybe four hands went up of hundreds some people and I decided I don't have to like it it's my duty and what happened one night at the university someone handed me a book called Mansearch for meaning I went home. I opened the book. I read every page of it, and I called, and I wrote a letter to Victor Franco, and he told me to meet him in San Diego. He was a professor at the university, an international university, and he became my mentor. And I think also, for many years, people asked me to write a book, write a book, and I would say, automatically, I have nothing to say, I have nothing to say. But Phillips Zimbardo called me one morning and said, you know, Ede, the people who survived and famous are all men, Victor Franco, Elie Bissell, and we need a female voice. So the choice is a female voice of Viktor Frankl.

And I became a logo therapist, and logo means meaning in life, existential. Wow. So actually, following up on that, I just have a question about the psychology of the human being. And when you are put into a situation like this where you don't know what's happening and then you realize the horrors of where you're going, do we as humans just have a survival? aspect to us because someone like myself or kate can't imagine being in a situation like this does something take over in the human brain to where now we just have to survive and do anything we can and did you see some people who are much stronger than others some who just wilted and said

i can't deal with it and others who stood up and actually became real survivors i had a girl with me and she loved her country, Yugoslavia, and I loved my country, Hungary. And she told me we're going to be liberated by Christmas. And she waited and waited for Christmas. And Christmas came and went, and she died. So that kind of a mentality was not very healthy. You had to be flexible, not rigid. And I think it's very important today for people to also acknowledge that it's your attitude that you take.

And I know I was told every day that the only way I will get out of it as a corpse. And I said to myself, that's what you say. I know this is temporary. I don't like it. And I'm going to survive it. And I today talk about being for something rather than being against something. Because if I would still fight and hate, I would still be a prisoner. There's one thing we cannot change is the past.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, Oliver and I are actually Hungarian Jew. Our mom is Hungarian Jew. So my grandmother came from Hungary. Hungary and women are not smart. You had a very wise, yes.

Yeah, I agree. They don't just jump into that water. They're going to test everything out. They're going to go to a store and they want to know what is this made of. Are you going to have it for sale? They drive a salesperson. Neri. It's actually not wrong.

That's so funny. It's actually really amazing to talk to you about this because I've never spoken to anyone directly in our family that was, you know, in the war. And my first question is, is when you were taken, I mean, what was the process of, like, how did this happen for you? Was it just one day you were pulled from your house or what actually happened? What actually happened that it was in March, 1944, and we had Passover dinner, and my father got up after and kissed us on the head. And then we went to sleep, and a couple hours later, there was a banging on the door, and they took us to a factory in my town was called Kasha. Now it's called Koshitsa, it's part of the Slovak Republic. And we never knew about Auschwitz at all, and never heard about it.

But when we arrived, I saw the sign, our white, mocked fly, work makes you free. And my father said, it's not so bad. We're just going to work, and then we go home. That's not what happened because they separated us. Everybody over 40 under 14, every young mother with a child, they had to be separated in a place. And that's how I ended up with Magda and my mother in the mirror. The way I found out that Clara was alive and well, when we came home on the top of a tree, train from Vienna to Prague.

So we got up the train, and I saw advertisement of my sister that she's giving a concert. Her professor smuggled her out. She was already in a camp and took her home, and that's how she survived. I must ask you to really think about also. the people that we call righteous Gentiles, there was a woman in Germany dying, and they asked her, how come that she risked her life, saving Jewish lives?

And her answer was, my father told me that that's the right thing to do. So don't think that all Germans were Nazis. That's not true at all. the 12 years of the Nazis it's something that it's not in every German person. So you're both, all three sisters survived

and you lost both of your parents? So Magde and I survived and we had one pair of shoe. And so if somebody went out, the two of us stayed in bed. And my aunt sent us packages at Crisco, and we didn't know what to do with this thing, this white thing. And we had a tea.

And we made maybe 100 teas out of one bag. And so those were the days I became quiet here. And I went from hospital to hospital. And Clara became my mother. She decided that she's going to take care of me and introduce me to other people, my little one. So when we went to the airport and I wanted to talk to the agent, she pushed me aside.

Okay. I'm wanting a little clarification on this. Is Clara, your older sister or younger sister? Middle. The middle. Okay. And you're the old, you're the youngest or oldest? or oldest.

She was the day. After the war, when you guys all met, so you found your sister out. I discovered that she's alive in Prague. The way I found my sister was on a billboard in Prague that she is giving a cancer. Wow. Oh, my God.

She waited for us in our hometown, and she was the breadwinner. She played the violin for the radio. and wherever she became really my mom and she took me to the hospitals. And how long had it been since you had seen each other? Probably about a year. Magda is my sister, Magda is alive.

She was 100 in January. Wow. And she'll tell you that she's 99. That was like our grandma. She lied about her age all the time. Yeah, we think, we thought she was 80. Who knows what age she actually was? I have a question just about when you are in line

and you're about to sort of get on these trains. Were you separated from your parents at that moment? And was that the last time that you saw them? They separated the men and the women first. Right. And then they separated. separated all the women into two groups, the ones they were going to keep and the ones they were going to kill.

Okay. And the men we don't know about because she never saw our father again. So once that separation was happening, did you have, did you have hope that you would see your parents again? Because obviously you didn't know what was going on or did you? Or did you, were you resigned to the fact that, oh, this is it? I'm never going to see my parents again. I followed my mother when I unfortunately said that she's my mother, not my sister.

And Mangala came after me. I never forget those eyes. And he said to me, you're going to see your mother very soon. She's just going to take a shower. So when I was at the other side, I asked the woman who interviewed me, when will I see my mother? She pointed at the chimney. and she said your mother is burning there

you better talk about her in past tense I never forget that but Magda came and heard me and she said the spirit never dies that was so helpful that's how I entered Auschwitz oh my God wow

wow so Magda Let me continue because that's funny. Magda was always the beautiful one in the family. So we were completely naked, and she asked me a good Hungarian question. How do I look? And so I had a choice then, as you have a choice now, whether I would concentrate on what she lost.

So I looked at her, and I said, Magda, you have. have such beautiful eyes. And I didn't see it when you had your hair all over the place. So today I tell people, if you want to say anything, ask yourself whether it is important, whether it's necessary. But most of all, is it kind? And if it's not kind, don't say it. And it's working.

People really think about their thinking before they say anything. because criticism not helping anyone so they get rid of the yes-but and exchange it, yes-end. Oh, gosh, Kores Light. Oh, I was just having this moment, Oliver, today about when we're going to tap the Rockies.

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to be played meaning did you have to be manipulative in the sense of fighting for survival as far as with the guards, you know, being cunning, being manipulative, making a friendship maybe when you don't really want to. Was that part of survival? They took our blood regularly. They took our blood. And I asked, why are you taking my blood? By the way, I love your tone of voice.

You're such a man's man voice. I love it. Thank you. Anyway, I love this. I was told that he's taking. I'm blushing. She's flirting with me. Were you talking about Oliver?

Yes. Yeah. Oh, Edith. So he said to me, I'm taking your blood to aid the German soldiers. So we can win the war and take over the world, especially America. okay, I couldn't yank my arm away, maybe I wouldn't be here telling you. But I said to myself, you stupid idiot, you're going to win the war with my blood? I'm a ballerina.

Anyway, I learned how helpless I was to change the outer environment. I had to change my attitude and never, ever give up hope. And so I think it was very important to make a decision that no matter what, this is temporary, and I'm going to survive. Mm-hmm. Wow. And I got one more sort of odd question. How did humor, did humor play in to your world? Oh, yes.

Okay. Because I'd love to talk about that because I just think. We even had a boop contest. Guess who won? Who? You. Explain that for a second. No, I, let's not go.

Audrey, no. But, but, you know, talk about the power of humor. I mean, I, it's a very, it's a, it can be a very sort of, it can be a medicine in a sense. I mean. Yes. But you, you have to have. have cynicism and sarcasm and philosophical humor was better, but I know that we talked about how Hitler is going to die.

And I think we had each other, so we had to have cooperation, not competition or domination, because all we had was each other then, and all we have is each other now. I live in a present. I can only touch you now. I want you to know that there were three sisters. The middle one either chose the old one and they ended up doing things with me or the middle one chose me against the oldest one.

There were two against one all the time. Yeah. Mom, tell them about how you... How much paprika put in and all that. We were always cooking. We were always cooking in a camp. And we were fighting how much paprika I put in my Hungarian goulash. And we were constantly talking about nothing but food.

Nothing but food. And of course, the Hungarian chicken paprika, the strudel Hungarian food comes from, Austria and so food food we talked about all the time we were always hungry for affection, attention and I and I think it was very important for us to cooperate and form a human family

so wait was food apart food was part of the experience you were able to have ingredients to actually you know make your food no no no no they would talk about it they're saying no not at all they were saying that they're just talking about food and how remembering kind of laughing about how much paprika she put in a moulash was like also probably brings when you look back on that time that food is such a huge part of how we connect as a family and and what brings us together um my mother has two books and the second book is is the gift. And there's a new version of it. And we put two new chapters in that. One is living through COVID. And the other one is about food and love. And which I wrote. And so we have 17 recipes in there. And also the discussion about when they were so hungry, what these women talked about at night was they were arguing about how they would make food if they could. And I don't know how many of that became good cooks, but my mother certainly has become a wonderful cook. And her mother never let her cook. And my father's cook didn't let her cook.

So it wasn't until she came through America that she learned how to cook. When did you, when were you, Marianne, when were you aware, when did you find out about, about mom's past? How old were you? So I was about 12. And I was a reader and I read all the books in the children's library, whatever. And my parents were readers. And so one day I went into one of the places where there were books. And there was a book in the back.

And I thought, well, maybe it's about sex, right? Pull it out. And instead, there are these horrible, disgusting pictures that did people. And I took it to my father and I said, what is this? And he said, this is Auschwitz. And I said, was mom there? And he said, yes. Why did you ask that question?

Because I, you know, my father was very protective with my mother. And we all loved her so much, but you didn't want to hurt her. And you could see that there were some things that frightened her, like police parties. and so and we broke with our grandparents so we knew that the parents

were dead and so I don't know I think I just started putting it together and I have to say that now that we've moved so we live in New York

a lot of the year and then we go back to California for summer and stuff like that and being in New York there are a lot of children of Holocaust survivors. And the stories that I hear from them are that their lives were full of Holocaust talk.

And it was about what they lost and what would have happened if. And I didn't have to carry that with me from childhood, really. And so I'm kind of grateful that I didn't know. But I didn't know told them. I want to tell you that when Marianne was about six years old, she would say to us, everybody has a sister. I want a sister. So when the two of us made $60 a week, we decided I'm going to get pregnant. And then shoot enough, my husband is working

for a CPA who was a dog and didn't allow my husband to come and help me to go to the hospital. So I drove myself to the hospital in 1954. in a Lutheran hospital, and they put me in a crib, you know. And then the next thing I knew, I woke up in a room, and the nurse came in, and I said, how long do I need to suffer? I thought you have to suffer. Anyway, they knocked me out soon enough. But she said, you had a little girl four hours ago, and I said, that's America, you know,

because in Europe, they don't give you anything. And Marianne was born at home because my late husband inherited the family business. So we were very wealthy, which we lost everything when the communists came and we fled. So that's where Audrey came, the little girl, and Marian became the little mother. So she had two mothers. What's your age difference, Audrey and Marion? Seven years. Seven years.

Amazing. And then John is the baby? Two and a half years. But John was born with cerebral palsy. He was a child with special need. And my son John is a child with special needs. And he does go to Washington. and fights for the people who have difficulties.

He has difficulties with his eyes. He's kind of blind and there's a stick when he goes out. And he's very committed to make the city available for people who have special needs. So he is for something. And he's fighting for the disabled. He's married to Lourdes, who is a wonderful, wonderful girl. And she wants to learn how to cook Hungarian food. Perfect.

Well, according to your daughters, you're obviously very good at cooking Hungarian. Mom rock some Hungarian dishes, Ali. Yeah. Well, that paprika, I mean, just a lot. own chicken paprika. She just puts it in everything. Yeah, I mean, literally, we have paprika and cake and cereals. It's just everywhere. You know what this needs a little paprika? I want to tell something about your mom and the movies that she was in. I remember when she was in the military. Oh, Private Benjamin. Private Benjamin. Yes. That was.

That was, I think, the first time that I saw her, she's quite a wonderful, on a son's woman, right? Yeah. I always say, love is not what you feel is what you do. And I think that's important that you are and your mother doing many, many things, improving the relationship in a family. Thank you. But, you know, it's funny that my mom says that all the time, you know. And I, you have a different twist on it.

Love is not what you feel. It's what you do is. That's what my mom. My mom says about yourself, you know, you're not, you aren't what you do. You're what you give and how you give. You know, I also, I also love just what your mother said to you in the cattle car, which is a universal psychological sort of thought that you, need to go through to have a happy life for the rest of your life, which is basically, you know,

they can take it. They can, they can take everything away from you, but they can't take away that you perceive things. They can't take away your thoughts. My mother would have made it if she would have been let come to the other side because my teacher from the Jewish school was the first one to get up. She was exercising. She, you know, she made it. She made it because there was no other way. She was an amazing role model to us not to wait for anything to come. There was nothing from the outside, nothing but the gas chamber, four o'clock in the morning. We didn't know if you're going to end up there. When we took a shower, we didn't know whether water is going to come out or gas. And I think this is the hardest place to be when you don't know

what's going to happen next. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. God. No, I know. I wonder, you know, Edith, when, you know, you then dedicated your life to helping people. I mean, to becoming, you became a psychologist. What, when did this, you know, you met your ex-husband, you moved, you had a very wealthy life.

And then again, it hit you again. You had to then leave this life and, and flee communism. You came to America. Did you come to America with nothing? We came to America, and I didn't have six hours to get off the boat. So the Red Cross gave it to me, and I ended up working in a factory, getting seven cents per dozen. So I worked as fast as I could, so I wouldn't have to lose any time. But finally, I had to go to the bathroom.

And when I went to the bathroom in 1949 in Baltimore, one of them said Khaled. And guess what? I always went to the colored bathroom, and I realized that there is prejudice. There is prejudice in America. And I joined the NAACP. I marched with Martin Luther King. I was in Birmingham. Your mother is right.

Love is not what you feel is what you do. And in 1960, two or three, I don't remember. I was in Baltimore and there was a woman with two men called the mammas and the papas and we were singing we shall overcome that you can't remember because you're too young for that but maybe your mom would I know it I know it we know it wow what an incredible life oh my lord so Baltimore so you did you my husband's brother there. My husband, brother, was a very famous lawyer in Czechoslovakia, and one day he lost his glasses, and he was reaching for his glass, and somebody hit him and called him a dirty Jew. So he came to

America, and he became a full-abrush man. He was the most bitter person. And I told him that my husband is going to go to school. And then I became pregnant, and he told me how dare to even think about it becoming pregnant. He was so bitter, so bitter. He died of a heart attack. And so we came to America, and he thought we're going to bring out the eager fortune.

Yeah. That was a real disappointment to him. But I went to work, I went to school, I sent my husband to school, and he became a CPA. Does the eager fortune still exist today? We went back, and they told us that we can take over the home. The home is a monastery that covers the whole block, but we had to give up our American passport. And so we didn't do that. Wait. Hold on. I want to get this straight.

So you had to flee communism. And they said, yes, you can have your fortune back, but you have to now give up. Revoke your American citizenship pretty much. Revoke your American city where you were able to have a safe haven in order to get that back. The story. The story is when the communists came, they wanted to take over. They were there to take over the business.

And my husband started to call them Nazis, and they threw him in jail. And I am a survivor. I don't say why me. I say, what now? I took my big diamond ring. I went to the jail. I gave it to the warden. I cut my husband, and we left overnight.

And we ended up in Vienna at the Rothschild Hospital that was for the people who fled. And that's how we came to America. And Marion was a year and a half old. She was so beautiful. And we were arriving in America in 1949. and she spoke four languages. She went to a wonderful daycare center and she taught me how to speak English.

She wrote home a book called Chicken Litter. And then came Lucky Lucky, Goosey Lucy, Turkey, Turkey. I didn't know one from the other. So what I'm telling you that children end up being, Maybe we can use the word parentage. Because one of my questions, I had two questions. One of our question is, when did your childhood end? I don't think Marion was ever allowed even to be a child.

She's the one who showed me about peanut butter. She's the one who handed up with an official order. She's the one who taught me how to speak English. and that was very, very, very, very helpful. And the second question is, which I'd like you to think about, would you like to be married to you? Mm-hmm. Yeah, Marian, I'm going to just say yes.

I'll be married to me. I'm going to just be confident. Right. I might marry. I'm going to say yes to Ollie too. I might marry Edith, because I can't. just it's it's just an amazing story your resilience and just your the way that you choose to think about things and the way that you chose to continue on and live your life and we all have that

choice that's the beauty of it yeah they can put you somewhere but we have free will our mind we have the choice to think and believe the things that we want to believe you know it's edith you said you said suffering is universal but victimhood is optional It's amazing. It's amazing, but it took a long time to get there. You know, when you say 20 years, you know, this must have been something that eventually you really worked towards understanding about your life experience. You know, people, yeah, I always say what I lived, but people come to me. I believe, I believe, I believe.

I'm not interested in what you believe. I want to know what kind of life you lead. You know, show me. You know, words can be very cheap commodities. And I went back to Auschwitz, actually, because that's where the education I received about the difference between the IQ and the EQ, that I didn't have time to complain and I don't like it.

And no, I don't have to like it. I'm here now. And the question is not why me. The question is what now? And I live in a present. I can tell you that I have such joy to being interviewed today. I have a question for Marian and Audrey. You know, Mary, I'll start with you, you know, because you're older.

But I mean, we all have different perceptions of how these things happen. And what the experience is for you is different than, obviously. obviously your mother. So being raised by a Holocaust survivor, that moment when you saw that book and realized that your mother was a Holocaust survivor, like what, what then became the process of understanding who your mom is, what her life experience has been? What was that like for you? I think that it grows and changes. And I don't think that my mother could have done the books that she's done without me in August. We sat next, to her when the

lovely man who is the producer of our books, let's say. He came to San Diego and he found this wonderful high school to do the formal writing.

And we all sat in my mother's study. And he said to her, you know, Eadie, you have a story that you tell everyone about your experiences. But for this, you're going to have to really tell the real story. And my mother looked at us, me and Audrey, and she said, do I have to tell the real story?

And I said, no, but then you don't get a book. I said, we're going to be right here with you. And so she did. And we heard, and the stories in the first book were stories we had never heard before. And so not only did she go through the pain of reliving it, Audrey and I went through the pain of hearing. I mean, I don't know if you remember the story about how the Nazis would put children in the trees and then use them for shooting.

And, you know, I mean, seriously, human beings do these things. But on the other hand, the more that we make sure that people realize, I mean, look what's happening now in the world. You know, I don't know what it is about humans that make us so cool. But, so anyway, I think the knowing, I think I made sure for a long time that it was never part of my story. And then as time went on, I became more approachable with it. And now, of course, Audrey and I both feel that this is a world story.

that needs to be remembered. And our children and grandchildren are, I mean, my daughter's two boys who are 10 and 12 now. And they make some of my mother's recipes for their class when they're supposed to make something. and they're really delicious and everyone just loves Gigi Gigi Ditsu is her name Great Gravajitsu and you know

and so it just it continues now I think in a very positive way I still live with some pain of knowing about her pain and I feel the younger

great-grandson that I have calls me, his name is Hale, and he looks at me and he calls me Gigi Baby because I'm short. He's short too, but that doesn't. So I'm known as the Gigi baby. And they like my food. They like my Hungarian food. Oh. One of my best friends' grandmother was a Holocaust survivor.

She's, she's passed now. She never spoke about it. She wouldn't, you know, and she kind of would at one, you know, in moments and they took everything in, but she really was different, you know, like you didn't really want to share her life experience with the Holocaust. I think we owe it to the children. They shouldn't keep secrets. But if I knew then, what I know now, I would have done things very differently.

Yeah. My parents had tickets to come to America and they never used it. Oh, wow. Audrey's experience was very different. When Audrey was born in Baltimore, you know, we were in Baltimore. And I never knew my parents before, even though I guess we were living in this tiny little place and all this. But when we went to El Paso, Texas, my father did really well. We had some money.

He wasn't born. And Audrey had neighbors. And so Audrey had a much more American life, I think, and feeling about life. So, you know, Audrey, you should tell them. Okay. I do have a voice. It's funny that I'm going to kind of go back to the choice. I wasn't actually going to come for this three-day, like, amazing experience.

It was my son that said, mom, you need to go. Because I really was pretty dissociated with the whole. This was her story, not my story. Anyway, but luckily I had taken a year of yoga training and my adrenals were very strong. Anyway, it was quite an experience to sit there for three days and like her dramatizing getting in the box car, talking about her father, who we never heard. anything about, she was saying how he gave up in the box car. I mean, the detail about our grandparents that I never asked any questions was just amazing. And I'd say it's difficult, but I'm so glad I know that, you know, I know that part of my life and her life that we could

chair. And the big kind of aha moment was when I traveled with her to we were in Amsterdam and they did a ballet to honor her and we were sitting. The prima ballerina got together with a guy and she became me

and the man became Mangala. And even the movie star that played Mangala came to me and he goes do you think she'll want to meet me because I represent Mangala and I said of course she'll want to meet you anyway it was this experience that I'll never forget because

at the end the Bala prima valerina gives and this was May 4th in Amsterdam they actually the city shuts down to remember the World War II and they

the ballerina gives my mom the flowers the spotlight comes on and the entire opera house just collapsed in tears. And I'm sitting here going, holy shit. This woman is healing this audience right here by her vibrancy and her just being so alive. Memories, memories. And so I was like, well, my life has just changed. And I remember calling Marianne and maybe it's the middle of the night going,

oh, my God, you're not going to believe this. Well, it's just amazing. And then I just became much more open to telling my story because there are a lot of second generation people that are kind of struggling to figure what their story is. And I've been asked to do, like, presentations that I've never been asked to do. And so I've been really digging deeper into her, her history and yeah, we carry it. You know, it's, it's important to carry on.

Sorry, but you guys, you're amazing. My darling, thank you. One of the things you want to remember always that half of you is your mother and half of you is your father. So I hope that you also guide people. to make peace with their parents. Oh, that's interesting. You said that.

You know, just... I mean, just because our father was not around, you know, and I've come to terms with it, and we have somewhat of a relationship, but I've tried to make amends and heal there and forgive, honestly. Yes. It's actually forgiveness has nothing to do

for you, forgiving someone. else, you don't have godly powers, but you want to be free what you're carrying with you. That's so forgiveness has to do with you, freeing yourself, what you carry with you and letting go, and you're not in the past fighting and still hating. Because why you hate, you're still a prisoner. So have you, do you have forgiveness for all of these people? Of course, there's no question. Revenge just gives you some kind of satisfaction,

but I think it's very temporary. I very much push for people to be free. Freedom is no without responsibility. It's anarchy. So the sooner you can do that, the freer you become. Give yourself a gift. Yes. It's a gift to give to you.

Yes. Yeah. One of the things, Mom, that you often say is that you never forget. You never forget or overcome. I don't know that overcome. I remember when we went to have a rude steakhouse here, and I remember seeing cobblestones, and immediately I was taking back when children were spitting at us in Germany as we woke.

and called us Wunda dogs and this, that. And I was feeling so sorry for the children that they were taught how to hate me. And what about the Costco and the bar wire? So when I go to Costco and see the barbed wire, I immediately have flashbacks. I don't forget or run from the past, but I don't set up household there.

And I think it's good to go through the valley of the shadow of the... Yeah. But is there trauma experiences that the mind just blanks and shuts out? I mean, do you have gaps in your memory of things that you have put away? You seem so sharp and your memory is, I can't even begin to tell you how impressed I am with how articulate and how sharp your memory is. But are there moments where you have just blocked out? The past is in a present. I think the way you think can change your life.

If you pay attention to your self-dialogue, you find out that if you change your thinking, you can change your whole life. So pay attention to your self-dialogue. It really is very important because it changes your body chemistry. Yeah, cognitive behavioral therapy. We aren't our thoughts.

They're just thoughts. I want to tell you, I want to tell you how loose I was, by the way, you lost it. I was really, it was incredibly sweet. But I think, I think that we, it's our duty to carry our families, you know, you know, especially as daughters, right, to care. our mother's stories. It's really important. Yeah, I was curious what touched you.

That's, you know, because the stories, profound stories that can really change, you know, your story, Edith, can be life-changing for a person. They can experience you and your words, and it can change their entire life trajectory of how they see themselves in the world. your life experience has seen that people can be so resilient that we can overcome the negative thought patterns and the trauma i mean you know that we can understand it better and and i also think world war is just a very specifically emotional war for especially for jewish people you know um like ourselves you know our grandma there's not that many of us

in the world. And they want to try to forget what we've been through. And so that is, that hits me a lot. I like you to get rid of the word, understand. Okay. Or overcome. That is, I don't, I don't ever, uh, forget what happened. I do not overcome. Um, um, it's unresolved grief that comes up here, there, and everywhere, I come to terms with it. I call it my cherished wound. So don't run from it or fight it. That is important because you want to be a good mother to you. And whatever you do, ask yourself, is it empowering me or depleting me?

you know some things may give you five minutes of pleasure but then maybe years and years of pain I think it's good to think about your thinking right that's true so I do have a question for you in your circle which is much a circle that I'm in but you know what what do you think we need to do to bring awareness or to help others I like to say I never ask, how can I help you? I say, how can I be useful to you? I mean, honestly, it's the story, of course, but it's about the resilience. It's more than just the story.

It's about how Edith and you as a family have dealt with it. It's just about sort of changing your mind, making a choice. that, you know, even someone with a story like yours can make these choices, you know, and it doesn't have to define us, we define ourselves, our thoughts, you know. I have a story, but I'm not my story. Right, exactly, you know. I've been dealing with anxiety, and that's sort of how I deal with it. I have anxiety.

I am not, I am not my anxiety, you know. No, no. You're thinking anxiously, there is no such thing as an anxiety attack. I am not a victim. I've been victimized. It's not who I am. It's what was done to me. There is a big, big difference.

It's very important to pay attention what you're paying attention to. Because anything that you pay attention to, you reinforce that behavior. So, suppose you want to lose weight, and you tell. me, and I tell you what to do, you know, I'm calories or so on. And then you tell me, I just cannot give up Hungarian chocolate. And, you see, I can't is not in my vocabulary. Because when cannibalism broke out in the place where I was liberated, the movie is called

which is the movie that I'm referring to Is it about Canada? Karate Kid? Karate Kid? Is that what you're talking? No, I was actually talking to God what to do because I didn't want to touch human flesh. The sound of music.

The sound of music is there. And God pointed. me to look down. And even then, I had grass to eat. And I remember choosing one blood of gray against the other. So I can't is not in my vocabulary. I go to a classroom. I run to the blackboard and I put on, I can't, and I take and erase the tea and the apostrophe. I can't. Why? because I think I can. So are you saying that the cannibalism was something because you were so hungry that started to happen?

People unfortunately resorted to cannibalism in Gunzkirchen, Austria, where I was liberated May 4th, 1945, by the 71st infantry. And one of the members is now, my friend who was there when he's the one from the 7th First Infantry. Wow. Were there rumors of liberation or did it just happen immediately? Or did you understand that it might be happening soon?

Yes. We got a can of sardines from the Red Cross and we were told that Roosevelt died. So that's when we were very, very, very hopeful that we're going to be liberated as well. And thank God, thank God. I call it the saints, came marching in. It was maybe your grandfather or great-grandfather or great-grandmother, who may have been a nurse during World War II. I don't know, but they were women and men.

equally in uniform. And that feeling, what was that feeling like? The feeling was all I can tell you that there was no feeling, I was numb, void of feelings. What condition were you in when you were in? I was among the dead when I felt my hand was touched. And I looked up, and all I saw was a big leap.

So I am telling this to Oprah, and she gets up from her chair. And she says, he was black. And sure enough, he was black. And I looked at his eyes. And I want to cry. And he was crying. And guess what? He gave me M&Ms.

So if you come to my house, I give you M&Ms with my picture on it. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Isn't it? Wow. Wow. Real quick, going back as Mary, and I wanted to touch upon this just as a child and having to be that teacher to your mother.

and you know English and food and this and the American culture and lifestyle was there anything taken away from your childhood you know what I mean do you not there's no obviously no regrets but is there that that thing that you had to sacrifice

for your family you know I always feel hurt when my mother talks about what I gave up to be their child because they were really

fun parents and I felt like it was really fun and we were doing all these different things and they were so sweet and playing to me and I don't I wouldn't give up my childhood for anything I mean you know I didn't I mean if I realized that I was teaching my mother English it's not a conscious thing and I think that's pretty cool you look at all these immigrants under the US I want to I want to tell you, let me interrupt, honey. I was invited to a Hanukkah party, and the children got up and sang. And the hostess asked Marianne, Marian, would you like to sing a Hanukkah song? She says, yes.

She starts in the middle of the room. Jesus loves me, yes, I know, because this Jewish guy became a Baptist minister. that. So that's what imagine how I felt. I'm sorry I used to have to. Oh, that is so I love. I love to date and I have a great memory of that. Oh my God. That should like

be in a movie. That's really funny. Jesus was a Jewish boy. Oh, God. You know, the only when we moved to El Paso, there was another family there who were from I think Chuck of Lovac. or something. And they had a son my age.

And I kept thinking to myself, when I grow up, am I going to marry somebody like him? Because we have a similar history. And that was one of the thoughts I had, was that I knew deep inside that I was different from all these Texans. And even though I learned to ride horses

and play very good tennis and all that, you know, I was, I mean, I, you know, I had the benefit of being good at a lot of things and being really smart. And so, I think, you know, kids are more concerned about themselves. And my mother, you see her now, and I'm so proud of her. But when I was growing up, she was shy. And, but my friends, my, you know, my El Paso friends, they just talk about how I loved at her your house.

Your mother was always so sweet and she always wanted to listen to me. And they have told me now, you know, she listened to me and why my parents never listened to me. So I think her ability to connect. And my father was a sweetheart. He was fun. He loved to travel. And he said rough funny. he had a really funny sense

and he was a great dancer so you know dance and all the stuff and I'm sorry about the and so I knew that my family was different than other families

and when my mother went to Auschwitz and she came back she was truly a different person I mean, she's a different person. And her story, which she hasn't told you, was that she, you know, she went.

And she saw a man walking who had the uniform on. And she got panicking, like he was one of the men in uniform that she experienced when she was there as an inmate. And then suddenly it hit her. that he works here and I can leave and I have an American passport in my wallet

and she skipped out when my father said she literally skipped out and she used to have this kind of saddles in her eyes always and it went right. Wow.

So that experience really like just shifted. It was like something happened. It shifted everything and so I became a psychologist long before my mother my mother didn't finish her education which was in the fifties.

And I went to graduate school for now when it was funny. So, you know. Smarty pants. There was a difference. And, and, and, and so she goes to Auschwitz, you know, she's doing her psychology stuff with the veterans from Vietnam, et cetera. But she goes to Auschwitz and she comes back. And she is like, oh, my God, I am fully alive.

It was, it was a. astonishingly wonderful. It really was. What were those memories like, Edith, going back there? What would you attribute that to? Is it just a release, realizing that it's over? I think it was, I think that all of the painful memories came back to her, but she also realized that that was then and this is now. Yeah. And she had so much that happened since those days. And I mean, she and I've talked about multiple. times. And, but, but just, just the look on her face and the way she just kind of handled and, and the confidence that she had speaking to people were, and it just, it just turned

everything over. I know. I mean, it's one of an incredible thing. So you see that's all my experiences and, you know, watching that transition with her. But the other thing that comes to mind is when I was pregnant with our first child, her daughter, and I was three weeks late, thank goodness. And in those days, they let me go with the three weeks. I was as well.

Holly was three weeks late too. Is that right? So I was three weeks late for my mother. And so I called my mother and I said, you're going to be here with the baby's board, right, to help me out. She said, well, you know, I'm working on my PhD. and I have a meeting with my advisors and, well, I'll try to be there if I can. And I'm thinking, what? And fortunately, because Lindsay was three weeks late,

she went and had her meetings and she could come back and be there. But that's, you know, when she's determined, even their first child is not going to stop her. I know. That sounds like our mother, who'd be like, it's the birth of your first grandchild. And she's like, I'm so busy. But I'll, I'm going to try.

I'll see what I. can do. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But they only come through, but it's just sort of in their own way. How many great-grandkids now? I have seven great-grandson. And that's my best revenge to Hitler. I don't have time for anything. But you and your mom and your brother can come and visit. me here. I hope that will happen. Oh, I would love. Where are you? You're in New York? La Jolla. Oh, you're in La Jolla. Diego. I would love to take you up on that. We will take you up on that. All right. Come tonight and we have veal paprika. Perfect. It's just your story is incredible and your spirit is amazing and your resilience is inspirational. And I have an odd last question. And you don't have to

answer it. But, you know, given who you are and after having this conversation with you for the last hour or so, were there, did you have happy memories? Were there happy memories of your time in Auschwitz, memories that you will take with you? Many, many happy memories, especially that we to care for each other because if you were only for the me, me, me, you didn't make it. And we knew exactly that I knew exactly by looking at someone's face whether they're going to make it or not. Even there and those dire conditions, people were practicing an attitude that turned anxiety. into excitement. And what was the excitement?

Like, we're going to get out of here? That I'm here now. I'm here now. I'm still in a present. And I do the best with what I have rather than anything else. So I think the curiosity is what helped me through more than anything.

else. So when a woman tells me that this guy left him, left her, I say the word that you want to use now, next? Next. I think I say next too often. Pick an arrow. Go follow that arrow. Next.

I love it. So when you leave the house. get dressed, you never know who's going to pick up that tomato next to you. And start a conversation. You know, the tomatoes are very nice. Women are much more pursuing than in the past. You don't have to wait for a man to call you. I think they're both married.

Well, that's right. I have a, do you feel your mother all the time still? Do you think about her all the time and do you, do you feel her? My mother is a god. Yeah. A wonderful God. It's in my soul, my spirit. In Yiddish, we call it your Kishka.

Yeah. That tells you, your Kishka. Your Kishka will tell you whether it's a good eye. idea or not, whether you should act upon it or not, I think it's very good to pay attention what you're paying attention to. So when you are married, you do two things. You give and take and tolerate differences. Yes.

I think that's all relations. I know. Kate's going to use this in her relationship. I feel that your daughters are so lucky to have you as their mama. I am the lucky one. Of course, of course. From your girls' perspective, you know, we usually do this thing. I'd actually like to do it with you guys. We do this with siblings.

Our last question is usually what is one thing that you would love to emulate about your mother? And then what is one thing you would love to be able to alleviate from her? And then maybe, mommy, you can say that to your daughter. It's one thing that you just love so much about them that you, you know, that you had. What? Yeah, the one thing that you wish that you could tell. take from them, meaning like the one thing that you love about them that you wish you had for

yourself. And then the other, which is that one thing you could alleviate, something that you could take away from them that would make their life better. It's a deep question. You know, when I was on Larry King, he asked me, were there any kind people among the guards? And I told him that one night, when we were in a little German village, in a community hall, we were told if we leave the premises, we're going to be shot right away. But Magda told me she's so hungry, she would die if I don't get some food.

So I didn't listen. So I go outside, and I see some carrots. next door. I'm a gymnast, right? So I jump and I steal the carers. And as I jumped up, I heard the clicking of a gun. About three times, and I'm seeing to myself, I'm going to die. But there was this eye contact.

And I don't know if you had ever a German father, but he looked at me and he turned around the gun. and shoved me back. And the following morning he came and he wanted to know who dared to break the rules. Some crawling to him. This is April 1945

when the German people are starving and he gives me a little loaf of bread and tells me, you must have been hungry. Yet last night, I wish I could meet that man. And because he gave me a piece of bread the time when they were starving as well. So there was kindness that was practiced even then, even that.

So anyway, Larry King wanted me to cook for him Hungarian food. And that somehow. Thank you for sharing that story. Wow. I'm just the stories that you must have. I got to come to La Jolla and just, you know. I know. Talk and I can do a dance too.

I can dance for you. Marianne and Audrey, do you want to maybe? So the thing that I wish my mother didn't have was the guilt that she feels about, whatever, if she feels feels well. She tends, especially around me, which I feel is totally inappropriate. And it makes me, it hurts me to see her have that feeling of, I mean, I think part of who I am, and I like who I am, comes from what I had.

Really? Really. I am, I try really hard not to be the obnoxious older sister, but maybe sometimes with that. all the time. Ollie doesn't try hard not to be. He tries hard to be the obnoxious. It's a job. Okay, well, this is the advantage of a sister over a brother, and what I feel like I got from my mother

is my mother is an incredibly kind of person. And I think people say, and I feel like a kind of So I'm happy at score. And there's positive things to do. So I don't know if you know anything about me, but my specialty is child psychology and sports psychology. So different ends of the spectrum. And I love to watch people get better and better and do better at whatever they're doing.

And I, and, you know, this is something I think that my mother has embodied. And I'm glad to happen. Wow. Love that. Amazing. Audrey. Okay. That's a hard question, but I think the word is, you're never satisfied,

and that can be negative or positive because I always feel like I always need to be accomplishing something. So that can be positive or negative. Sometimes it's a good kick in the butt, and sometimes it's like enough already. At 94, do you really need to work every day? But anyway, so it's sort of a, it's a dichotomy in a way, you know, like, when can you rest? Anyway, I like to play a lot, and I also do executive coaching. So I have, like, very different sides of me. And I think that's okay.

And I think I would, I wish that she had a little more of the, you know, go play bridge or something, or... Right, like, flip the playful. Like, yeah, like enjoy, like, the gifts. I mean, life can be really fun, too. But anyway, on the good side, I do never give up regardless of what happens and, you know, life is up and down.

And with her gifts, I think it is just, like I said in that article, it's in my DNA. it may you know things may hurt and be horrible but i always know i'll find a way out and uh and i do never give up and this this is the role model right here amazing thank you honey if you could take one good thing that your daughters have and adopt it as yours what would that be? Their curiosity and not really living in a past. And then what if you could take away something that weighs them down or is difficult for them and you could sweep it away for them? Turning shit into fertilizer and plant roses on it.

Okay. I think that's a great way to end. Oh, God. I might just take that quote for myself and run with it. And turn the bed into good. I love it. You guys, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much. My love to your mom.

And I hope you'll come and give you a big hug. I know. I really want to figure that out because I could talk to you for hours and hours. Thank you, guys. this is so great. I really, this was really, really, and it also just really touched me just so deeply on such a, such a personal level and I'm so grateful. So thank you for spending this time with us.

Yeah, really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. All right. We'll see you guys soon. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Alison Bresden.

Editor is Josh Windish. Music by Mark Hudson, aka Uncle Mark. If you want to show us some love, rate the show and leave us a review. This show is powered by Simplecast. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one.

We sit down with politicians, artists and activists, to bring you death and analysis. from a unique Latino perspective. The moment is a space for the conversations we've been having as father and daughter for years. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Janica Lopez, and in the new season of the Over comfort podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable, and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time?

Join me for conversations about healing and growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Listen to the new season of the Overcombered podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's your favorite Jersey girl, Gia Judice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rural Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them if I'm being honest.

There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana. Maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual Chaos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.