Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - From Idols to Rivals to Brothers

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

They once competed against each other as American Idol finalists, now they lean on each other as brothers from another mother.While it's been 20 years since Clay Aiken and Ruben Studdard found fame on the reality show, what they really found was family.In this episode, the sort-of siblings talk about the early days on idol, the behind the scenes shenanigans, and the really raw moments taking place backstage.Plus, we 'unmask' their most recent project and what's next for both of them.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece,

we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special. So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with the co-host feature you can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. Hey, it's your favorite jersey girl, Gia Judice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story.

This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rural Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana. Maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual Chaos on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bridget Armstrong, host of the new podcast, The Curse of America's Next Top Model.

I've been investigating the real story behind that iconic show. I ended up having anorexia issues, bulimia issues, by talking to the models, the producers, and the people who profited from it all. We basically sold our souls, and they got rich. If you were so rooting for her and saw her drowning, What do you help her? Listen to the curse of America's Next Top Model on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And would it's like to be siblings? We are a sibling rivalry. No, no Sibling Reveory Don't do that with your mouth

Sibling Reveory That's good Hello and welcome Back to sibling revelry And I say welcome back Because I'm alone again And so I'm welcoming you

welcoming you back to Sibb revelry because the Ling is working. You understand what I'm saying? I'm the Sib and Kate is the Ling. The Ling is working. She's doing a gig at Netflix. And I'm here to just make this shit hot. I'm here to, you know, throw coal into the, into the fire. So this train just keeps moving.

Would I like to be doing a Netflix show with incredible actors and laughing and playing and making a ton of money every day? No, I wouldn't. I'd rather be here speaking to you, everyone who's listening right now. And you know what? There's a good chance that our audience doubles right now. There's a good chance. I have a feeling. And I don't mind going solo. You know why? Because I get to just speak what comes into my. my mind and if anyone could crawl into my head it would be a funny a scared an anxious a dangerous place because this brain just does not stop we have some fun guests on today i do um clay ake and reuben stuttered um now this is american idol in its infancy this is when i was obsessed with

American Idol. We have two unlikely best friends. They're brothers from another mother, and that's how we're tying this whole thing into the sibling aspect. They are going to be on the mass singer. They've got all kinds of shit going on, and I'm just excited to hear about their friendship, how it all started, what American Idol meant to them, and then also the pitfalls of it. I hope that they are okay with my line of questioning, because again, I don't have Kate to sort of keep me on the rails i'm gonna go off the rails enough about me let's get to rubin and clay bring him in let's see let's see how they react to the uh the solo hudson express hello hello where's our reuben i'm here so i know my sister was supposed to be here

uh there might be some disappointment you know from you guys but i i i promise that i'm better looking than my sister i'm cooler how much funnier than she is. She doesn't add what I add. You know what I mean? She doesn't do what I do. Okay. That's what I say about, that's what I say about Rubin every time we do anything together. You do. You do. I just want to make that clear. I'm happy to have you guys on. I mean, I really am. I've watched you from the beginning. And that's no, that's no bullshit. You know, I was a crazy, crazy American Idol fan. And it's really an honor to sort of have you guys on and talk about your experience and your friendship. And your brotherhood, honestly.

So let's start with Clay, shall we? You know, and then we'll bring Rubin in, and then we'll converge and meet and smash in the middle. You know what I'm saying? Ruben, I'm, I, you have to give, you have to say it's something. Dude. You know, man. This is your, this is your issue.

You're taking everything as a sexual innuendo. No, you are. you are so you know just get that get that out of your head you know he makes himself very easy to pick on

but he's a he's a good guy but he makes it easy for me all the time smash can mean smash can mean many things all right I don't make myself

he's the pick home motherfuckers just like the pick on me that's fine I'll be that he can see this both up though so I usually lay off after a while. So, yeah, Clay, just give us your sort of, you know, your moment, your rise, your, you know,

from childhood sort of up. You don't got to, we don't got to get into the entire, into the weeds, but just your story a little bit. We both, we both, Rubin and I grew up in southern homes. We grew up in church. We grew up and we had very similar upbringings. And, I mean, the rise, I think. It's kind of crazy to think, Rubin, it's been 20 years.

and people, you know, it's been so long that now we are part of the idol history, right? But, you know, I think for everyone, they recognize us both from American Idol 21 years ago now since we did the show. And I don't know if it's because our season was so new, because it was so new for everyone. They didn't have the same sort. We didn't have the stakes going into it that I think other people in later seasons had. We didn't realize what how big it was going to be and how big it would become. But for that reason, we all kind of went into it thinking it would be a great summer camp experience. And we didn't go in with this competitive edge against each other.

And so Ruben and I just became really good friends in large part because of our kind of shared similarities, loving music and our backgrounds in our home states that we both loved. And we stayed friends since. And so, you know, at least for me, Rubin's been performing himself. solo for the past 21 years, for me, I stepped away for a long time. And the only way I was willing to come back was to perform alongside him. Oh, really? We've spent, we've spent the last, he's finally been free of me for how many months, two months now, but prior to. Dude, Rubin, that's a lot of, that's a lot of pressure. Clay's like, I have the voice of an angel, but I've sort of put it on

the shelf. And the only way that I'm coming back is if you do it with me, you know, well, don't don't go there again bro i had to say i could only sing with someone who is as good that's why and when did you guys uh sort of meet on idle like how how soon in the process um pretty pretty pretty early on like i mean we were we we hadn't made the top 20 yet we i don't think we made the top anything Yeah, we were in that hotel, and Ruben saw, I was surrounded by, I was surrounded by ladies for different reasons than Rubin likes to be surrounded by ladies. But he saw me with a group of girls and he thought I had game. So he was going to come over and flirt with him also.

You thought he had game? Is that where you were? I really did. I didn't like, I mean, because you don't, we don't, none of us really knew one another. So, you know, you're only getting to see the way people interact with one another from afar. And for some reason, this particular guy had, like, a room full of women talking to him. I was like, oh, let me go see what this dude? What's going on over here?

That is funny. That is funny. And then, boom, you guys met, and that was that. Yeah, and to be clear, like, I. I think everybody that was on our season, that was on the season proper, we all, for some reason, like, had a relationship with each other before the, before they chose us. Like, it was a weird kind of, like, gluing together of the people that made the top 10 on our season. Like, we, we had each other because they gave us cell phones, we made, and we, and everybody that was on the top 10, I had their number before we were in the house. together and it was it's just with

I think I might even add Josh's number Clay I think we are I mean it was really it was it's really interesting to kind of we both gone back to the show in recent years and to see the dynamic between the contestants now not that they

don't get along they do but there's just not there's not this sense of camaraderie I mean it's a machine right it's a huge machine now and it runs smoothly like a machine but for that reason the contestant They don't have the family atmosphere that we did. I mean, we actually ate dinner together.

We lived in a house together. We did everything together, and that has not happened in decades at this point. I think you're probably, there's probably, you know, more of a societal, technological, sort of just, you know, evolutionary shift in our culture that probably brings that on as well. You know what I mean? Like when you're thinking about 20 years ago, you know, that's a long time ago. I mean, things were much different than they are now, right? Yeah, we didn't have cell phones to occupy our time. Right.

There was no, and not only that, but I think, you know, it's just even as far as brain capacity goes. You know, we're more thinking and inclined to be a part of a community. That's how we get our dopamine by actual human interconnections, you know, rather than worrying about TikTok or how I look or my appearance or, you know, all of these things that come into play, you know, to sort of be a cog in that machine, a successful cog in that machine. You kind of lose yourself in that rather than sort of sitting down across from someone at a dinner table, you know, just generally. And I think it was really genius, too, in the way that they made those, our responses to people leaving the show. it wasn't like a put-on. Like we were really jacked up when somebody would leave

simply because they made us have dinner together. It wasn't like, oh, today is at Tuesday, you guys can like either go have it here or go to the Beverly Center. No. At 7 o'clock, everybody was made to be at the table having dinner, having conversation with, I mean, like we could not.

And we also had to have our. cell phones that was a rule we couldn't have cell phones at the dinner table like they were they called us kids everywhere we went come on kids come on guys like I'm freaking 24 years old like stop calling me that you know what I mean what they were doing was programming us to act like family so when they got us on camera all those responses yeah people leaving were real And that's, I think that was the genius part of the production. So you think that there was actually psychology behind that. There was science.

Yeah. I think that's just, and that's me and my conspiracy theory, I think, like, they were like. But I mean, they don't, they would, they could get that done now. And I don't think they, you know, they don't necessarily have it anymore. I think that part of it was that they did not want. They didn't know what they, I mean, honestly, they didn't know what they were doing when we were on the show either. They were still figuring it out. The show had become enough of a hit season one that they got renewed.

And season two, it became a huge hit episode one. All of a sudden, they were dealing with 20 million viewers. They hadn't had that the season before, and they were figuring it out. Actually, after our season was over, they came up with a whole bunch of rules about whether or not producers and staff and production team could be fraternize and be friends with the contestants. and they cut all that out. We're still, Rubin and I are still good friends with the showrunner now and other producers who are still there 20 years later. We're still good friends with them.

They never had to have same types of relationships with later seasons because they kind of became a number one production after we left. They didn't know how to do it. So they were different rules when we were on the show. I think we're thankful. Yeah, what was that, what was that house like? You know what I mean? Like, were you living all living in the same house?

what's the behind-the-scenes shit? Like, what were you guys doing? You know, when we weren't rehearsing. There wasn't a lot of time when we weren't rehearsing. Like, there were always, because we were recording things for different people that were a part of the show. So when we weren't doing American Idol stuff, we were doing old Navy stuff. When we weren't doing old Navy stuff, we were doing Coca-Cola stuff. We weren't doing Coca-Cola stuff.

And for the most part, all the time, Ford, forward forward stuff all the time so we were and and the girls had to do herbal essence commercials like we were always i'll give you the dirt rubin's nicer than me i'll tell you i dated one of the people on the show who worked on the behind the scenes my very first boyfriend ever was someone who worked on the show i won't tell you more than that but but yeah we there were there were some relationships Ruben, you didn't get any relationships on the show. I know. I did.

I was not the only one who did at all. So there were a few things behind the scenes. Nothing salacious or dirty. Nobody did anything wrong. This was your first boyfriend? Yeah, it was. Wow. And how long had you had come out?

I had not. I came out to him. No way. Yes. the show. Ruben, I didn't come out to you to win, right? Not too long after that. It was a while after that.

It was like on tour. On tour afterwards. Yeah, I didn't come out to anybody until we were on the show. So I didn't come out to myself until I was on the show. So for me, I can't speak for Ruben or anybody else. For me, leaving North Carolina, going to Los Angeles alone for the first time, too. Ruben, you lived alone before we did Idol. you were working. I was, I had not moved out yet. So for me, it was this very, it was a very

eye-opening experience in general. And I'm not saying that in some sort of, I'm very boring. But, but yeah, it was, it was the, it was the first time I had been around people who enjoyed the same things that I did, liked music. This is where I, where the school I went to, the place I grew up, people knew I like to sing, but I didn't have a group of friends who were like that. So it was a very eye-opening experience for me in that way. Hey, it's your favorite Jersey girl, Gia Judeyce. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rule Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to

Ariana, maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual Chaos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Internet is something we make, not just something that happens to us. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the Tech and Culture Podcast, Their Honor Girls on the Internet. There are no grows on the Internet is not just about tech.

It's about culture and policy and art and expression, and how we, We as humans exist and fit with one another. In our new season, I'm talking to people like Emile Dash, an OG entrepreneur and writer who refuses to be cynical about the Internet. I love tech. You know, I've been a nerd my whole life, but it does have to be for something. Like, it's not just for its own sake.

It's a fascinating exploration about the power of the internet for both good and bad. They use WhatsApp to get the price of rice at the market that is often 12 hours away. They're not going to be like, we don't like the terms of service, therefore we're not trading rice this season. It's an inspiring story that focuses on people as the core building blocks of the Internet. Platforms exist because of the regular people on them, and I think that's a real important story to keep repeating. I created There Are No Girls on the Internet because the future belongs to all of us. New episodes every Tuesday and Friday.

Listen to There are No Girls on the Internet on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. I would love for you to share your breakdown on pivoting. We feel sometimes like we're leaving a part of us behind when we enter a new space, but we're just building. On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Volusia Butterfield, media founder, political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling, impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership.

I am a free black woman who worked really hard to be able to say that. I'd love for you to break down. Why was so important for you to do, see you? You can't win as something you didn't create. From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys, Malicia's journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. A very fake, capital-driven environment and society

will have a lot of people tell half-truths. I'm telling you, I'm on the energy committee. Like, if the energy is not right, we're not doing it, whatever that it is. Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Would you say that moving there and being a part of idol and sort of finally finding your tribe, so to speak, allowed you to sort of feel more comfortable with who you are, your sexuality, to then come out? It certainly didn't hurt.

I mean, I still didn't come out until after everyone until after the show. But, you know, getting out there and recognizing that there are people who enjoy the same thing you do. And we were all supportive of each other. I mean, that's the other thing Rubin was talking about, too. I mean, I think in later years, after our season, people realized this show was a hit. There were 40 million people who watched our finale. And so everyone who auditioned, the next season, Fantasia auditioned, and her season, they all knew what they were getting into. They knew, holy crap, Rubin and Clay just had 40 million viewers.

Everyone's watching this show. We're on the cover of every magazine. They went into it knowing I want to win, I'm going to compete. We all went into it having no idea it was going to be big. And so we're really supportive of each other. He's right. When people left, we were, I mean, I was happy that I didn't go home, but I didn't want to see anybody else go home. There was just never this competitive nature at all.

Oh, really, none. Did you feel, you didn't feel competitive at all, did you, I mean, just with yourself. I mean, I only was trying to be the best version. I really came into the show trying to learn the business. of music and it's because you know i've been singing and and trying to be a professional for so long like american idol was my first real shot like i've had you know had several record contracts given to me before idol like several opportunities that just always fell flat and it's and i always used to say well that's what you get in alabama you know what i mean or that's what i'm going to

get around here and i was like i needed the opportunity to see like what the real business was. And so for me, I was always just trying to pay attention to what was going on. Like, I was very focused on what all the people, the musicians behind the scenes were doing with us. Like, this is why I created American Idol with, like, being the reason why I'm so great in the studio, not to, like, to my own horn, but, like, we, like, I really learned how to be a professional recording artist on that show.

and for me it was it was an invaluable experience like if i wouldn't have won the amount of of experiences that you cannot pay for like to say that i was in the studio recording a song with burke back rack yeah is you can't pay for that like that's crazy there's no amount of money that you could offer somebody to say if you could have a day in the studio with bert back who, you know, has made a million stars, like, how much would you pay for that? We didn't have to pay anything. All we had to pay was our time and effort. Yeah.

And then beyond the show, too, Rubin, I mean, it wasn't just we worked with Bird on the show, right? But then after the show, as complicated as it may be, we both had albums made by Clive Davis, you know? Yeah. And right there towards the end of the end of his, the peak of his career. He's still obviously working. but yeah i mean we we just did a tour together like i said last year and we would talk about the experience with working with clive every night on the stage and every night we'd both kind of just think wow how many people our age can say that they got to make an album with clive

davis i mean they're they're three me rubin fell is crazy um and and that's and that's kind of that's something that no one else around us is able to do so i mean i've Scott, did you guys have mentors on that show? You know how, like, later on in the seasons, they had, like, the mentors each week? Did you guys have that? I don't remember. We did.

We did. And was everyone in that season pretty big time? Way big time. Well, for us, everybody was big time. Everybody. Well, what I'm getting at is, like, because, you know, you watch these shows, you watch Idol, you watch other, you know,

where they bring in someone to mentor, and you're looking at the contestants and wondering, But does that person even know who that is? And they're like, oh, my God, in their interview, they're like, I'm so, I cannot believe so-and-so is here. And you're like, dude, this person has no clue that is, you can just tell. We knew, because we didn't just get mentors. I'd argue we got legends. We didn't get, we didn't even get current pop stars.

Gladys Knight, Liddy Newton-John, Lionel Richie, Neil Sadok. I mean, they were, they were huge, huge legends. And everyone was cool. No one was a dick. Oh, God, yeah. Nobody but me. you were were you the diva clay

were you the asshole on not not not on the show maybe afterwards not on once you taste a little fan you're like all right we got we got to work

we went in the studio recorded a single with Bert Bacharach Paul Anka was on our season I mean there was no one who didn't know crazy I was I think I think I was like

dude I fasted out more on Lamont Dozer because everybody was like that was the one that everybody was like well who was I was like man y'all don't breathe the back of these records that should all be singing like because you know all of us are huge everybody that was on our show was a huge of course a huge Motown

man and like to not know that this guy is the guy that like created the Motown sound because you know smoking and Barry were the face but this guy was the one that was really you know putting that work in And so we had the opportunity to sing his songs in front of him was just like, you know,

it's crazy. You can't buy those, you know, those moments. Yeah. Amazing. So when going back just to your friendship and how that kind of blossomed throughout this experience, you know, and when you were homies with Clay and then Clay comes up to you in that moment that he tells you that he is gay, right? Did that, how did that work? Were you nervous even doing that, Clay?

you know no I don't think I was and how did it play out and Rubin were you just like all right cool whatever yeah I mean that's actually pretty

that's actually pretty much what I say listen I probably built it up to be far bigger than it wasn't and he looked he if I remember correctly he and my actual brother both responded the same way if I'm not mistaken I don't want to put a quote into your mouth

Rubin but I may be quoting you wrong, but if I remember correctly, it was something along the lines of, I'm straight enough for both of us. It was either you or Brad who said that. I can't remember. But, I mean, you know, I think what makes, has made, continues to make our friendship strong is not only all the stuff we have in common, but the fact that we, because we are

also different, I mean, we do have a lot of interest in common. We have a lot of background in common. but we also are different enough that we both don't have unreasonable expectations for each other. I don't expect Rubin to like all the stuff that I like. He doesn't expect me to know all the stuff that he knows. I mean, he'll teach me about sports because I'm dumb about him. And, you know, if he's looking to see what Broadway show to go to, he'll ask me for a recommendation. But we don't necessarily expect the other to agree with us.

on anything even still. And I think that there is a, there's a great benefit and a strength to not having unreasonable expectations for the people who you are friends with or family with. Because it tends to be when, you know, if I expected Rubin to agree with me or to want to do our show a certain way or to have it the same opinion of me, then when he didn't,

I'd be disappointed. But because we are different enough, we know, okay, he knows that I'm probably going to come out at something a different way than he does. And it doesn't upset him when I do. He just goes, well, that's funny. So where do you guys, where would you say your deep connection stems from? And then, you know, the flip side of that question is, where do you guys sort of butt heads and has it gotten to a point? Especially when you're working together, you know what I mean? Like when you're in close proximity like that, it can go two ways.

You know, it can be bang, bang, or you can be all love or what? I think our deep connection stems, just like for me, with any of my friends, there are shared experiences. Like, you know, like my best friend from childhood is our shared experience is church. So that is, you know, we, like we, everything, our friendship is based on happen in my home church. for our deep connection is the experience that we nobody in the world other than the other maybe 20 people that have gone through the experience that we have made it to the end of that show

together like the way that we did but um i'm just like with my own brother god rest in peace he and i bumped hands on all kinds of stuff and he's still my brother like that like like us having different of opinion doesn't change the familiar feeling that we have for one another. Like, I'm, you know, I'm sure you and your siblings have blowouts all the time and you will still go to bat for them regardless. Like, that's just, you know, like, and, and, and, um, I am, and this is one thing that I will say that Clay and I differ in. Like, I am a, I am a musicians artist.

Clay is a production artist, right? So most of the things that I care about happen on the level of musicianship. The things that Clay cares about happen on the production level of shows. So whenever we are bumping heads about a show, it's usually always how to deal with music or musician or how to deal with production or something of that nature. Right. So you want, you want like a beautiful stand-up bass solo and then Clay wants pyrotechnics. It would be something along those lines. Or, or for example, the last tour, you know, just budgeting. I'm very nitpicky on those types of things. And Rubin is very extra generous. And I'm like, noot. So, I mean, we have had some arguments that have been heated over those types of things usually. But, but again, I go back to the fact that, because Ruben's expertise is in music,

if it's musical, nine times out of ten, I will eventually just say, you know what, that's his department. And nine times out of ten, he'll look at me and then say, well,

you know what, Clay handles, you know, will handles the budget stuff or whatever that is, the technical, you know, the logistical stuff. And we'll eventually just agree to disagree at some point,

you know, I mean, it comes to down to, it comes down to the fact that you can, I mean, you can't make old friends, right? We're getting to an age now where we are seeing some people who we care about pass away. We are watching as family and friends who we've had for years moved to another place or whatnot. And it just becomes so much more important, I think, to all

of us as humans. I mean, I think we all have sort of a homing device in us at some point. We want to get to an age where all of a sudden we care about going to our high school reunions, which we never cared about going to before. We care about finding our talking, catching up with that person from church when we were a kid who we haven't spoken to in 30 years. And I think for Ruben and I, it's just, and not just us, but so many other people, I think when you get to a place, you realize there are only, like he said, so many folks who remember what it was like 21 years ago to experience what we experienced, to go through those things. And I have, neither one of us have any interest in losing the ability to reminisce about those things, right?

So we'll call each other up sometimes because we haven't. I just remembered such and such. I just talked to so-and-so from 20 years ago. Can you believe this? And after a while, there are a few people in your life who you can go for, I mean, Rubin and I haven't gone for that long a time without speaking to each other, but there are people who you can go for weeks without talking to. But when you pick up the phone, it's like you haven't been a way.

way at all. 100%. Those are like all my friends. We are at that point, you know. Hey, it's your favorite Jersey girl, Gia Jude Ice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rule Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest.

There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana. Maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom It was like, congrats on America's Got Talent This is a combo you don't want to miss Listen to Casual Chaos on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts The Internet is something we make

Not just something that happens to us I'm Bridget Todd, host of the Tech and Culture Podcast There Are No Girls on the Internet. There Are No Grows on the Internet is not just about tech It's about culture and policy and art and expression And how we as humans exist and fit with one another In our new season, I'm talking to people like Emile Dash, an OG entrepreneur and writer who refuses to be cynical about the Internet. I love tech.

You know, I've been a nerd my whole life, but it does have to be for something. Like, it's not just for its own sake. It's a fascinating exploration about the power of the Internet for both good and bad. They use WhatsApp to get the price of rice at the market that is often 12 hours away. They're not going to be like, we don't like the terms of service, therefore we're not trading rice this season. It's an inspiring story that focuses. on people as the core building blocks of the internet. Platforms exist because

of the regular people on them and I think that's a real important story to keep repeating. I created there are no girls on the internet because the future belongs to all of us. New episodes every Tuesday and Friday. Listen to there are no girls on the internet on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Culture eats strategy

for breakfast. I would love for you to share your breakdown on pivoting. We feel sometimes like we're leaving a part of us behind when we enter a new space, but we're just building. On a recent episode of Culture Raises Us, I was joined by Volusia Butterfield, media founder, political strategist, and tech powerhouse for a powerful conversation on storytelling, impact, and the intersections of culture and leadership. I am a free black woman

who worked really hard to be able to say that. I'd love for you to break down why was so important for you to do C. You can't win as something you didn't create. From the Obama White House to Google to the Grammys, Belisha's Journey is a masterclass in shifting culture and using your voice to spark change. A very fake, capital-driven environment and society will have a lot of people tell half-truths. I'm telling you, I'm on the energy committee. Like, if the energy is not right, we're not doing it, whatever that it is. Listen to Culture raises us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What about vulnerability?

You know what I mean? like are you guys able to be very vulnerable with each other and emotional and talk about those kinds of like deeper feelings or issues that are going on in your lives or your wives or your husbands or whatever it is you know what I mean because you know I deal with that just to preface that question as a male vulnerability has always been difficult for me especially with females interestingly with my mother with my sister with my wife um it's been difficult for me to just talk about how much I love them and how I feel about them. If I had to say, hey, you know, I just want to tell you how much you mean to me and how

grateful I am for you and all of these things, I feel like I want to go away, hide under a rock. Now that goes into my own psychology, you know, which if we had another podcast episode I could get into. But, you know, learning to be vulnerable and opening up was definitely something difficult, you know, for me as a man. Are you guys able to do that? I don't think I've ever had an issue with telling the people that I care about how much I care about them. And I say this because I was around a very masculine man that were cool with being that

way. My grandfather, when he loved you, he loved you. Like, I mean, like, and I mean, he wanted to hug you, you know, shake your hand. Like, my grandfather was, you know, that way. And subsequently, it made all of his sons that way. So, like, my uncles will, they will beat your tail, period. But if they love you, you will know it. You know what I mean?

Like, if my uncles would love you, like you're going to know it. And I feel like all of us are boys that have grown up around that have benefited from being able to tell. our friends and family members, everybody that is close to us, how much, because, you know, like, I remember a moment before my brother passed away, he said, you know, it was always refreshing to, to know, like, always know how we felt about one another. You know what I mean? And the great thing about having a sibling like him is because, you know, I'm my mama's baby. you. And so I always had everything I wanted, never really forced to share, and my brother was like, oh, no, like, you're going, you're going to share with me. You're going to, like, I'm going to make you do the thing. And he, and I told him this before I said, you made me better. Like, he made me, like, in every aspect, because, uh, even like in football, having him as my older brother made me more competitive because I was always trying to,

to beat him. So nobody around me like that was playing. I never felt like I would lose to them because I was always not competing with them. I was really trying to beat my brother. Honestly, what made me want to

beat Clay even more is when my brother said, ain't no way you beating that white boy. That's exactly what my brother said. I was like, oh, what? He thought, Kevin was definitely my biggest fan. and I appreciate it.

Oh, my God, that's so funny. That's so funny. And it was like, and now that I look back on it, maybe that was like my brother, like little brother psyched me out. Mm-hmm. Because he knows like. He knows your competitors.

You have a competitor. So you're a baller, right? You've played football. Yeah, anything he ever told me I wasn't going to do, I ended up doing. When you lost, was it even a thing? You know, does it sting a little bit? I had seen the card before.

We walked out on stage, so I knew before he was announced live. Yeah, Ryan had turned around and I had seen the name was, I mean, Rubin stuttered. It's a lot longer than Clay Aiken, so I've seen it. But if you go back and look, I'm actually staring at Ruben so intently in that moment, but I know he was like, what the hell is wrong with you? Because I wanted to see his reaction. I knew that he had won and I wanted to see it. And so we.

No, no, you said, it's you. And I said, shut up. Oh, I did tell you? Yeah. Oh, I ruined. Oh, sorry. It's you. And I said, shut up.

I ruined the surprise. He couldn't hold it in. It didn't change anything. You still want. No, no, no. Well, let me get into the Masked singer and then I'm going to let you guys go. But before we get into that, I just want to get into the how the living situation more. Like, were you guys in, where were you living?

Was it close quarters? Was it, you know, a big house? No, we had a big house. A big house. And so, and everyone got along. Yeah, I mean, just as siblings would. I mean, we certainly bickered every once or a while. But no, everyone, not only did everyone get along beautifully.

They didn't. I wouldn't say they were cliques. No. There was a hallway of dressing rooms that had three dressing rooms on it. And they tended to just, we tended to kind of group together. Ruben and Ricky and Charlie would hang out in the, and would hang out in the front one. Some of the girls would hang out in the middle.

and me and Kim Locke would sit in the back and we'd all watch Young and the Restless being taped on the other set. But there were never, there really weren't any clicks at all. I mean, we, we all kind of shaled together. Obviously, there were some people,

Ruben and I stayed in touch completely. Kim Berthelie Locke and I, where roommate became roommates after the show was over. And there were some people who probably had a stronger bond, but there was no one who didn't get along or, and I would tell you, you because I ain't got trouble spilling spilling tea but so nobody didn't

get along we all got along and and we really were I think it was just like drinking from a fire hose right? Yeah yeah yeah yeah so we didn't have time to get into fights with each other look you can't it's hard to seeing what Idol has given you guys

you know what I mean just as far as experience as far as situations to work with some of the greatest legends of all time you know advancing your careers bringing your friendships close you know you can't really knock idle for anything but I mean was there any dark side to it in the sense of like man they're they're running us ragged or like this you know this is too much or you know was there anything like that

we didn't know to know that it was too much like right right now you're like this I guess this is just how it's done yeah like we didn't we didn't know like we just thought it was part for the course. Honestly, like having other experiences on other shows, I was like, oh, man, they're chilling over here. Right. I do. We now look and think people complain about things. And I'm like, wait, we didn't even have a union now. Right. Okay. So this, I've had friends who've been on it. It looks fun as hell. I've actually asked, I've been asked to do it. And I said, yes, but then I was doing a show. I was doing a series and they couldn't clear COVID protocols at the time. But I was very excited because if you guys,

don't know, I have an incredible voice. We can tell. Yeah, it's, you know, I could, I could, like, let me just, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me break something out, like, oh, oh, baby, baby, baby, yeah. Okay. Ready? He does have a voice. Lately, I've had the strangest feelings.

Oh, that is not it. That's not it. I'm having a strange feeling right now. All right. Right. Yeah. When I ask you all the thoughts. you're keeping you probably will win mass singer because they would have no idea

yeah they wouldn't be able to guess right no exactly so you know it's an instrument that I just keep quiet um because honestly no one wants to hear it but listen mass singer what was that like you guys get to do your shit together which is i'm probably super fun and then more importantly putting on those outfits like holy shit it was cool I will say that it was cool. Other than, you know, somebody I know getting on everybody's nerves, I ain't going to say no names. How in the world did I get on anybody's nerves?

I mean, we're getting cut today, are we? We're going home, are we? We're going home. I knew it. I knew it. But you know what? That's because, Ruben, Ruben, that's because I have experience getting cut, and you don't. If you had experience getting cut, you would have known it.

You would have sensed it. like me. But I'm an expert. Were you being the negative Nelly where you're like, oh, we're done. We're not ever going. We're not getting. No, I wasn't negative. I knew exactly when we were going home. I could tell. I just smelled it on that end. And it was that day. I know I drove him up the wall. But I was just trying to prepare you because I was an expert. I knew I could tell. How did you know? I could just, I could smell. I could feel it in the air. There's something. You know, like when it's about the rain and your ankle starts hurting, I could feel it. It was like that.

Although I will say we both were probably tired of those. costumes. It was, it was, it's a very weird experience, right? Exactly. And like, I mean, every other TV activity, anytime, anything else you film, there's a community, right? But with this, you have, you have one producer that is yours. You have a vocal, uh, coach type, you know, helper to, that is yours. And you have dressers that are yours. And you don't see, nor do anyone else see you the entire time you're there. You, I mean, it is, it is sort of, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm so happy that we did it together,

because otherwise it'd be very lonely, I would imagine. You don't see anyone else at all. I have a friend. Yeah, I have a friend who did it. I guess the dressing rooms were there's curtains and shit, right? Like where you can kind of hear, and this person made it, and the other person kind of didn't, who's an actual singer.

And she went off, like crazy about my friend making it. and she and he can hear the whole thing you know very very very well they've changed those rules now now now those stress rooms are far enough apart you don't even get to hear or see anybody oh really who's around you yeah we couldn't hear anything at all oh good okay we still don't know who but I could kind of feel that though because like you you I got a little tight when I heard like some of the singing I was like oh we got cut yeah well so I'm going to tell you I mean since this is airing

afterwards. I know exactly. I know why we got cut. I knew why I could see it coming. We were beats, right? We were the beats. We had these huge beats over us and these costumes were cumbersome to say the very least, wouldn't you say, Ruby? Yeah. They were not the easiest things to get around in. And we had done, we've done very well as vocalist. I would argue Rubin that we might have been the better singers of everyone. However, that last, that last showdown at the end, was so much about performance and we couldn't see where we were going we had no I couldn't we couldn't see our feet and even if we could see our feet you can't dance when your entire body is a beat yeah just orbs there was no and we could move our hands a little bit and nothing more yeah

the other the other person who who made it past us in that round you know had this pop and lock thing going on I would have voted for them too because they were you know we just got we got screwed into our into our big old beats well because it's not even about voices right it's not all about voices it's about the whole performance and you're right see here here's the thing if i was choreographing you i'd play into that meaning i wouldn't try i'd be bumping into each other on purpose you know we did that even on accident yeah that's what i'm saying like you play into the costume we need to put him in a beat and see how much he could choreograph you couldn't move around in this beat and you couldn't move at all that's what i'm saying our eye

The eye holes for the beach were down at our stomachs. So we couldn't even see out the eye hole. It was a brilliant experience. And I don't think either one of us would complain. It was fun to do. But, but it was. Well, the other thing, the other thing, too, though, is, you know, you get paid as you move on. Right.

So there's a monetary, you know, reason why you want to keep going. And that's where the competitive nature comes in as well. You know, where it's like, well, fuck, man. If I, if we move on, we get a little more cash. Well, fortunately for Ruben and I, we left that show the night we got cut and we flew directly to our, back to our tour. So we were, we went right back to work. We were on tour the whole time. So we were, we didn't, it didn't hurt us too much, but it would have been, it would have been fun.

And poor Rubin, I've dragged him down because like I said, I'm, I've lost two shows now, three now, but I lost idle and I lost came in second on apprentice also. Yeah. It was just a matter of whose, whose luck is going to rub off on the other. Is my bad luck going to rub off on Ruben or is his good luck going to run off on me? Well, you guys, my bad luck was stronger. I'm sorry. You won life. You won life, buddy.

Come on. You know, look, I'm an actor and a producer. I need a job, all right. This acting world in this world, after the strikes and everything else, man, I'm hustling money. We're going to get out of here. I'm going to let you guys go. I appreciate you and, you know, keep it rolling. Are you guys done with your tour, by the way?

we are Ruben's promoting an album Tell him the album name Rubin Oh yeah what you got going The way I remember it It's good He wrote some love songs to his wife Oh really

Baby girl With those babies for me Ruth I will Congratulations Congratulations All right guys I appreciate you Thank you so much

Maybe we'll hang out down the road Thank you Okay Well there we have it Solo interview By Oliver Hudson Kate, what did you think about that? Oh, my God, I thought it was so funny.

Like, Ruben was so great. I know, I know. Isn't it amazing how, you know, how they became friends and how, you know, Clay came out to room? He wasn't even know. I know. I mean, oh, my God, like, in the room and I wonder, but I wonder what that must have been like.

It was probably so crazy. Like, anyway, Oliver, that was so fun. I know. Good to see you, Kate. Yeah, good to see you, too, Oliver. Oh, my God, I just changed characters in the middle of my boys. Hey, it's your favorite jersey girl, Gia Judice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story.

This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rule Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana, maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Send to casual chaos on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Bridget Armstrong, host of the new podcast, The Curse of America's Next Top Model. I've been investigating the real story behind that iconic show. I ended up having anorexia issues, bulimia issues by talking to the models, the producers, and the people who profited from it all. We basically sold our souls, and they got rich. If you were so rooting for her and saw her drowning, What did you help her? Listen to the curse of America's next top model

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Betrayal Weekly is back for season two with brand new stories. The detective comes driving up fast and just like screeches right in the parking lot. I swear I'm not crazy, but I think he poisoned me.

I feel trapped. My breathing changes. I realize, wow, like he is not a mentor. He's pretty much a monster. monster. But these aren't just stories of destruction. They're stories of survival. I'm going to tell my story and I'm going to hold my head up. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.