Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Goldie and Ollie

Episode Date: September 9, 2021

This week, Ollie is joined by special guest co-host, his mom, Goldie Hawn. They open up about Oliver's birth story, discuss MindUP, the impact of technology on children and their mental health, the importance of self-reflection, vulnerability, and more.Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver HudsonProduced by Allison BresnickEdited by Josh WindischMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is powered by Simplecast.This conversation is brought to you by the House of CHANEL, celebrating 100 years of the iconic fragrance, N°5. Learn more about this legendary scent and its iconic bottle on insidechanel.com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece, we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special.

So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with the co-host feature. You can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. It's important that we just reassure people that they're not alone and there is help out there. The Good Stuff podcast, season two, takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month,

so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. One Tribe saved my life twice. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land?

Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be Kenspiracy theorists. That's right. They give you the answers, and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the I-Heart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson.

We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling rivalry. No, no. Sibling rivalry. Don't do that with your mouth. Sibling Revelry. That's good.

Okay. Okay. Here we are on another episode of Sibling Revelry where there is no sibling. Well, sort of. Definitely not your sibling. No, no. But it's been Aaron and I for a minute. Kate's been busy traveling the world.

world working being fabulous and so now i have you i know that sounds like a real compromise which really bugs me no it's not a compromise now there's you how about this how about this and you've been on this show now there's you you know like that instead of like well first you got to hold the mic more to your face what yeah you can't be waving the mic like that oh yeah um and now there's you I like that better. Is that better? Yeah. You've been on the show before, but you've been a host. And I guess you're a host, but you're a guest. I don't know what you are. I know you're my mother in case...

Definitely your mother. In case people have recognized the voice yet. But my mother, the great Goldie Jean Hahn, is on with me. Just to chat, we have no idea what we're talking about. We're going to talk about, but it was my birthday yesterday. I know. nobody knows better than me i know and i'm 45 years old and i know that you've told the story before in your book but my birth was a tough birth

yeah didn't make almost didn't make it um i know yeah that was a tough time you know i i was so big and i i literally um i mean i i didn't think i would my body would ever go back to normal because you were so big. And then my doctor literally said, well, you know, you're a few weeks late, but, and I thought, well, I know, but that's kind of weird because I really should go on my date. And then I wondered if I could actually have a baby that big,

meaning, what is my pelvimetry? And could my baby come out? And so finally, I went into back labor. Oh, you did go into labor? Oh, yeah, I did. I went into back labor, which is different. Your back is like, you know, it's spasming. And, you know, it was sort of in my mid to lower back area.

And I thought, you know, something's not right. And it's not like it was having contractions in my belly. I was having them in the back. And I went, I better go to the hospital. And I went in at 6 o'clock at night, I mean, in the morning. And rushed in. and they got me, started, you know, looking at me, but they didn't give me an IV or anything.

And I was just, they were just waiting for me to do some dilating back then, right? And this was three weeks past my birthday? Oh, it was three weeks at that point, yeah. I mean, see, that's crazy, though, because they wouldn't do that now. Never. So back in the 70s, they just let you cook until you were decided to come out. Yeah, oftentimes they did. I think my doctor, who I loved and he had helped me have all my children,

but he he that wasn't so bad to go over um what happened was is that after i was in the hospital oh my god i was there all day long and i had everybody examining but you know somebody's uncle and you know i'd more like you'll put your hand and thing and let's see that and i didn't dilate i was only dilating like one or something two maybe and i had the fetal monitor on it that that time and but I had no IV and I say that for a reason because I wasn't getting any fluids or or anything and in those days they didn't give me potocin which helps you dilate and all that stuff so now I'm feeling the contractions but nothing's happening and then suddenly it was like seven o'clock at night and I was there all day um they rushed me in finally gave me an IV

rushed me in on an emergency C-section because there was fetal, sorry, distress. And I go in and now I'm, you know, they're cutting me open and, of course, I had the block and everything so I could hear and see everything. I was totally awake. And then they pulled you out and then they swaddled you up

and I heard you cough. And it's really interesting. It's not like I had a baby. baby before, but something seemed wrong to me. And I said, is that cough okay? And they went, oh, yeah, it's just normal. We're just suctioning him. And then they swaddled you up and they put you right near me so I could see you. And I remember looking into your beautiful, oh my God, your face, you were 11 pounds. And I looked in your face and I said, I waited so long for you. and then they whisk you away.

And I figured they were going to, you know, do more clean air, whatever. So then a little bit later, as he's sewing me up, I was getting a bit nauseous. And they said, he's in ICU, he's in blah, blah, blah. And I'm listening to this doctor coming into the surgery room and I said, is that my baby you're talking about? And then the doctor said, just give her something and put her out. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, they put you out.

They didn't even let you know what was going. on? No. Jeez. It was terrible. And I woke up in the ICU, I mean, I'm sorry, in the recovery room. And... Not really knowing what was going on.

No, but I was so thirsty because I hadn't had anything to drink. I had no water. I had, I mean, truly dehydrated. And, but I didn't know what happened. And then I learned that my baby might die. Mom, I'm here. I made it. I know. But anyway, you had a 40% chance of living.

And I didn't, I swear to God, I had this incredible instinct. Of course, I was really sore and very out of it. but I just I didn't it's like I couldn't get it and then they wheeled me into my room and it was the worst experience because it was dark and all the hallways were dark and and you know and they put me in my bed and the doctor came into me he was very upset and he said he's going to make it he's going to make it and I said what happened he said well he had a maconium aspiration and with that is that when they are under like stress and in order to the back labor and all of it is that sometimes they make a bowel movement which is very tar-like substance in your amniotic fluid

and so when you came out you inhaled it and that can create a low lobel pneumonia I like ate shit and almost died you kind of well honey come on I mean essentially I took a dump you did And then I breathed in my dump. Well, you did, but I mean, you don't have to say it like that. I mean, you can just say, well, I had my first BM. You know, you could do that. You could say, oh, I had my first BM. I don't think I've ever said BM in my life.

Well, I never have either, but it's better than dump. I mean, come on. I just couldn't hold it. Anyway, well, you know, you're a baby. I mean, you know, babies don't hold it. They go when they want to go. And that's the way it is. And so anyway.

that's what happened. The problem was, of course, is it wasn't so smooth because they took you off the ventilator too soon. And then you fell a little bit lower. So, but it was, it was an interesting experience. And I say this because now I can look at it, you know. My mom wanted to come see me, but someone wouldn't let her through the door in the recovery. She knew something was wrong and she was very, upset. And then she went home and my mom went to bed and she didn't come out of her room for several days because her first baby had a Cid's death and she found him fed him at 6 o'clock and found him at 8 in the morning dead in his crib. So my mother, on top of everything, was having this PTSD horrible moment where perhaps I should not have named Edward Rutledge because it was after my father

and she named him Rutledge too. This was my brother who I've never met. And so in the Jewish religion oftentimes really rabbis can say it's a little bit of a Jewish superstition but you're

not supposed to name after the living. So my mother couldn't talk to me I could not talk to my mother and I couldn't see her either because if I did I would have split my gut open and I knew it I knew that the wailing that would come out of me

would have had to have more surgery so after a day and each time the door opened somebody'd walk in and they'd say I think they were going to tell me my baby died and I was there just going oh God somebody do something I didn't know what to do

what I found out was that I was very toxic. So I was being given high doses of penicillin because I also had toxemia, right? Because that was in my body. So you took your dump, which, you know, I guess it's just, I'm getting used to it now. But in me, and then I got very toxic.

Well, the second day, the doctor said and the nurses said, must go up and see him. And I was so afraid of what would happen if I saw you again and fell in love with you and you would die. And you hadn't seen me at this point? Only from the beginning, right when they swaddled you. But I was afraid that I would fall in love with you instantly and that that would scar me forever if I had lost you.

but I got in the wheelchair and they pushed me up to ICU Nick you Nick you Neo-natal oh yeah

neonatal care and there you were you were on a slab of metal Jesus with heating lamps everywhere and needles everywhere in your head

being given medication and they had given you Thorazine because you were so big that you were pulling things out and you were active. Oh, so they sedated me? You were sedated, yeah. Oh, my God.

And you were absolutely gorgeous. You were 11 pounds, so that's like a three-month-old baby lying there, and big and heavy and hefty and amazing. But you also had a low heart rate, which wasn't great. So I did what I would consider. be the craziest thing, although I am spiritual, I suppose, very much so. But I stood up and I put my hand over your chest while you were, they were, was breathing for you. And I emptied my, I can't, I'm trying to explain what this feels like, but it's almost as if I made my body and my mind hollow. Like just

everything was at peace and everything was just, I emptied out everything, expectation, I emptied out, you know, all of it. And it's very tough to explain. But that's when I asked God to heal my son through me, to use me as your instrument. I am emptying out everything and you need to come through me please and heal my son. And that was my prayer. And I started looking at your heart monitor and it was starting to get higher. Your heart rate started to rise incrementally. 60 something, then it would go down. Then it would go up to 70. Then it would go down to 68. And it kept going higher and higher. And you were not conscious.

Certainly you were conscious because you knew I was there because all babies know that their mothers are there. And I called the nurses and the nurses and the doctor came over and said, Goldie, if more mothers knew that they had the power to heal their children. So they had probably seen this before. And we're trying to get more moms all the way up into Nick you more often because this is very important for them.

And so then the days went on, I was discharged, but I would come back to see you because they weren't ready to let you go yet. And I came back three times a day to feed you. I schlepped, you know, all the thing. And for me, I would have gone, you know, the whole thing. And I would sing something to you. And when I was washing my hands, I would sing, and I was in the NICU, I would sing, Oliver, Oliver Hudson.

and you turned your head toward me, and you were all the way across the room. And finally, when you were released, and I was there, I think it was about three weeks, and you were released. The nurse who the neurologist said, he's very developed, and he does something, I mean, you'll be happy to know his neurology is very good, she said, you'll be happy to know that every time you came in

he recognized your voice and he turned his head toward you because I wasn't aware of that. So that was in their report, right? So that connection was very strong. Was there a turning point? That was it. But the turning point...

The turning point was like, oh my God, okay, he's on the mend. Yeah. Meaning we're out of the woods and now it's just a matter of. of time before he could come home. Yes, it was about a week, and they started seeing great improvements. And that was the sign, right?

And I would then come in, and I would, you know, breastfeed you as well. And you... I did not. I was horrible. Lazy. You were one of those special babies, right? So when I took you home, I breastfed you, but you didn't really suck on my breastfed. rest that much you you aren't like ferocious you were a little lazy so i took the nipple from

because i also supplemented you because you weren't going to know and i put an literally put an ice pick in in a hole so you didn't have to work so hard that set me off on a path for the rest of my life well you know it's funny as i was when wilder is 14 now but he was born at cedars the same hospital that we were all born yeah and um he's my first and i went we had a c-section as well so we were there for four days and i went to the nick you i went up to the nick you because that's where i was yeah and i get off on the floor and they're like oh sir like you're not allowed to be here you can't just go up there unless your baby's there or something and i said oh my i'm sorry i was i was actually here and i was 30 at the time i was here

30 years ago. Right. I was in this Nick U. So crazy. And then there were a couple of nurses who were, oh, no, I was at the front desk, the little thing. And I was like, my name was Oliver, Oliver Hudson. And there were some nurses back there who recognized the name and came up.

And they turned out to be two of the nurses who took care of me when I was in the NICU. Oh, my God. It gives me chills. It's crazy. And they had a picture of us on the wall, but I think they had just taken it down because they were redoing stuff. Unbelievable.

But yeah. So I met those nurses. I took a picture with them and the whole thing. You know, it's funny because that's when I put Wilder's name on the wall. You know, I wanted his name up on the wall because my firstborn had a first born. I know, and we've talked about this recently because of all of my insanity, my anxiety that I've been going through

the last four or five months and just sort of digging into the reasons why or trying to find you know the foundation of where it stems from i've been in therapy for a billion years i've gone over my life a thousand times but it's interesting how you know sometimes talking about the same things with a different lens on it through a different perspective can sort of open your eyes even wider and i never even thought about my birth as being the first moments of my life because i wasn't conscious that's right but that has to have some effect on you and your being moving forward there's no question right i mean there has to be because if you think about it i was whisked away from you didn't have mother's love not ever and put on a metal fucking slab with needles in my head on a respirator

It was horrible. I mean, that was my introduction into this world. Even though it's unconscious, how could that not have penetrated or affected who I am in some way? It does. You know, they have all these regression therapies, you know, that they do now where you're re-experiencing your birth and how you can rewire in a way, the way your neurons are firing about your birth when you are put. through a facilitator will help you go through your birth in a different way. I think that, I think it makes a lot of sense because you can be traumatized by that without even realizing that you did have trauma.

You know, I had trauma, by the way, because I didn't realize I was so traumatized until I went with Bert Reynolds. We were doing best friends. You were six, I think. And I went in, in, in, Buffalo. Buffalo, yeah. And I went into a NICU there. And we were visiting this kids and we were doing all this time.

And it was fine and I never thought about it. And I went to the NICU and I had a panic attack. I had to get out. I mean, it was just visceral. It's like in my being. So these things, whether you're conscious or you're unconscious, do matter. And, you know, we really ask bigger questions about consciousness, is how much did children really know and feel when they can't speak or when they can't communicate?

And we're finding out it's a hell of a lot. So it was something that we did talk about too, which is examine your birth because it was really hard and I wasn't there. I mean, you know, secure attachment, right, is one of the most important things we can be for our children to be there for you. And I have cried so many times, even in recent time, remembering how I couldn't be there for the whole time. And then there was no such thing in my mind that really knew what secure attachment was. Now, of course, I'm working with children and we're doing all these things for mental health. I mean, of course, it's probably one of the most important things that you can give your child. So I walk around with my own, I know I couldn't help it,

but I wish I would have just known more then and insisted that I stay in the NICU the whole time. You know what I mean? Nobody did at that time, but, you know, it was really... Well, there's so much more that we know now. Oh, I know. I mean, it's unreal. You know, I do, I really have to say, though, I commend you, you're such an open person and you're fearless.

You have, you know, you are who you are. I love that about you, Oliver. I mean, I, you don't put on airs. You're funny. You're completely irreverent. You, you know, you're honest. You tell the truth all the time. And sometimes you go too far, and I look at it and I go, oh, my God, what is he doing now?

Do I comment on it? Do I leave it alone? But your idea of sharing, you know, what you're going through, you know, you know, what you've been through is so important because so many people are feeling these things now. This is no longer a taboo. You know, we're trying to bring mental disturbances, things that are going on with kids,

stuff that goes on with adults, all these areas. You're in self-discovery. You always have been. Do you see an uptick? Because you do, you know, for those of you don't know, mom has been working with kids and the mindfulness of children and the psychology and the science of the brain,

And Mind Up, with Mind Up, and have you discovered, because you've been doing it for 20 years now? Actually, it's almost 9-11. I mean, we're coming upon, this episode might even release, no, actually a day before, but this is what was the inspiration behind Mind Up essentially. Exactly. Right. Then 9-11 came. But have you noticed an uptick in sort of deteriorated mental health in children?

Definitely, definitely. And what would you contribute that to? Well, anxiety, uncertainty, all the things and the reasons why when our buildings were, and everyone was killed in New York at the Twin Tower and what was happening there, we in the Trade Center, we literally had a, what I felt is going to be fearful and desolate distress when children. I started looking at the statistics. Suicide was climbing for children at that point. And also their anxiety and also the anxiety and also the average.

advent of giving them adderol, you know, different pills and different psychotropics during that time because they didn't know how to handle a lot of the problems. So they medicated our children. Well, for me, I thought to myself, this is a disaster, right? So what's happening now is that more children, there's more stats on suicide, it's gone way up. That's a determinant itself in how desperate our children are. Now, what is the reason for it? A lot of A lot of it could be reasons of sort of climate, meaning I'll just give you one little isolated area. We work with Ocean Heroes and work with mindfulness with them. And Ocean Heroes is a great organization.

And what they do is that they have all these kids that are actually cleaning the ocean and so forth. But they're becoming more and more aware of, I'm not going to say, a feeling of futility because of the climate crisis we're dealing with. They're very depressed. They're trying to figure out how to fix things. So there's uncertainty. There's fear of the ending of the world. There's areas of what's going on in terms of our politics. Nothing. I mean, we've got, what's happening today with children is they can't control it. So they have no agency over their emotions. And nor do they have oftentimes parents who are grounded enough to be able to be there. You, through all of it, are a grounded person, whether you think you are or not. That's where you want to be. You choose to do that.

You choose to be a great parent. And you are an amazing parent, and so is Aaron. You have three fantastic children. That's because you pay attention to them. It's because you're there for them. It's because you go camping together. You play together. You listen to each other.

And also you give them modicum amounts of freedom to actually play freely. So they start to find out who they are and develop ways that they can manage their own emotions or manage the situation and giving them these tools to be able to do it. But they can't do it themselves. Neurologically, they're just beginning to develop their brain and it's not finished until they're 25.

So we're, you know, we're a huge part of our children's mental health. So, you know, we, so all of it living in the outside was these ideas of whether whoever our leaders are, whoever, whatever is going over the news. And also, I'm going to say it. the phone and all of the things that kids are getting into today they do not promote well-being at all they're always measuring themselves by how many likes they have yeah and and they're looking at themselves more in the mirror than they are at other people no totally but there's nothing we can do

about that yeah you that train has left the station and it is flying down the tracks like this world of social media of narcissism of sort of immediate self-analysis where you don't go develop a photo and look at yourself you're you can film a video and look and then boom you're right there that's just how it's going to be from now on so how do you say yeah so i would say um unfortunately parents want to be liked you know when i say unfortunately you're you i know you mean right you want to be cool you don't want to be the, you want to be the parent who's like, you can't do this. Exactly. You know, you want, you want to say leave that for the grandparents, right? But in terms of being a parent, you have to find your boundaries. You have to find your boundaries as a person. I mean, I remember

Katie, you know, was, you know, growing up and, you know, Madonna was like the thing with Katie. And she was quite young. But I didn't stop her from watching Madonna. I thought Madonna actually had a great voice and I loved her music but I was also looking at certain things and I thought well maybe you know we've got to look at certain things and comment on them and speak about them maybe her costume or maybe it was a suggestiveness of her of her way or whatever but I didn't say you can't do that so therefore I think parents really need to manage the time that our children are on their what kind of face time they're having you know or or or technology don't want to and say you can't before you go to bed. There's so much research right now. They should be off their devices at

least two hours before bed. Yeah, no, I know. We're terrible at that. And then with it, you can talk, you can be together, you can go outside, you can whatever, stretch, have fun together, tell stories. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's amazing what happens when you actually follow through with those rules, which, you know, we try, and then it just gets hard because you can get lazy as parents. You know, you've got three, kids you know eight 11 and 14 you know you they go to school and you're sort of parenting and then at night it's like your time you know you want them to just go into their rooms and do their own thing so then Aaron and I can have our time just hang out if we're constantly on their asses about like to get off the tech get off of this then it's just like up until the last minute but when it does

happen and and we're like we're done 10 o'clock you're done they all migrate into our room and they just get on the bed and then they start fucking around with each other and pushing each other in the best way you know and conversing and communicating family time yeah it's just naturally happens that way you know i mean i would i don't know listen i know we grew up you had a pager yeah exactly you had to buy for the pager and i'm thinking and we need that now because you're teenagers right um but you didn't grow up in that world no totally different. It just missed it, you know, which was great because your communicative skills are amazing. A lot of our children can't communicate. And that's another thing. One little boy

in a mind-up school, we put mind-up in that school. And he said, well, he can't have a conversation now, but maybe when he grows up, he'll be able to have the conversation. Well, he was 10, right? And I thought it was fascinating that he really didn't have the art of conversing because they text all the time. So these are the things that things were really. losing. And in order to sustain well-being, we have to make that happen. So 9-30 devices are all there to put them right there in my bedroom. They're in my bedroom. So you can't come and sneak and get them. That's where they are. You can come visit us in the bedroom. And I tell you, I think that's what I would do. It's so hard. I really do. I mean, I... It's about balance.

you know well when you're on your camping trip what's that like yeah i mean it's bad there's exactly you know you're out in nature there's no self-service you know how does that feel how are the kids you watch movies yeah they're good because they know they don't they can't have it it's just it doesn't exist it's not it's not even a possibility so we have a bunch of movies you know like DVDs and like we they're kind of old school movies and we watch that I love that I love You know, but the kids, again, it's balanced. Like, as long as they're outside, as long as they're getting into nature, as long as when we're in Colorado, they're doing their thing.

I agree. Nature is huge. As long as you're not in your room, 24-7, playing video games, which they're not. They're not. Oh, no, your kids are out. Yeah, they're out. I mean, they like their video games, and that's okay. Yeah, but I mean, when we're over, when we're at the ranch,

Bodie will come over, but he's out all day playing. Yeah. I know what they go ride their bikes. motorbikes are doing a thing there, all of it. And I'm telling you, and then he'll come up and he'll do it for a while. And I don't feel bad, as a grandparent, I don't want to stop him. That's his good, enjoy time. I think you're already doing this, but like a mind up, because it's for kids, but for parents.

Yes, we have a mind up for parents. You do. Yeah, because that's where it starts. No, I know what I mean? It's like the book 10 Mindful Minutes. I wrote like, parents need to become more mindful or learn. It's not a demand. It's just an imperative.

If we want to have mindful children, good kids, happy kids, blah, blah, blah, we have to carry some of these attributes. And in order to do that, I give them little tips on how to do it, right? So what I did this this morning, I was on a Zoom call with the gal who's doing what they call mindful moments for parents. And I'm going through various mindful moments for them, and I just worked on a brain break for them. So parents know how to take a brain break, but also why they're doing the brain break. And then the scientific proof of what it actually does for your brain and your body

and your health, right? So this is vital. And so in our, we're launching the end of October, basically our digital channel, and it's mind up for life. And that's going to be happening. And parent program is right in there. And we just finished one for Snapchat. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. So we did a parent program for SNAP, yeah. So you're infiltrating the social media is, you know. Definitely.

Yeah. Yeah. And we're going completely digital. It's really, really exciting. And with that, you know, talking about stages of your life, right? And when I go, stages of my life, it's like, what do you want to be when you grow up, right? You know, and I always said happy. Mm-hmm.

They didn't say what I want to do. People didn't say, what do you want to do? Right. What do you want to be? Well, I said at 11, I want to be happy. And then pretty much in my life was really about, not, I didn't have to chase happiness. I owned it.

I had it in me. I lost it for a while, another story. But regaining it back with a psychologist and so forth, because yes, I'm like you, I went to figure myself out, right? And so. Well, that's what, genetics are funny that way. You know, they talk about anxiety, you know, sort of having a genetic component to it.

Right. When I went through my first bout in my 20s was just coincided exactly with you and your 20s. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it very well can be. Yeah.

And so I'm telling you that was a whole, that's a whole podcast, you know. Yeah. But that's a really interesting fact, right? So, but anyway, but in terms of what I have done, right, is that, okay, I learned about the brain. about all that but then I became a producer and I'm an actress and a thing and it was funny and I really enjoyed everything I was doing and then

I got to a certain time in my life when I moved away to Vancouver for Wyatt to become a hockey player his dream I started thinking about my future and the future of our world and wondering all my philanthropy's always been for children I always wanted to help them in some way become happier

well I started mind up now that's been 20 years of my life. I have never been more inspired. I have never felt more excited about what I'm doing and you know, Oliver, I've been doing this a long time. But now that we're online and we're actually there, I am able to speak to having, people are doing amazing videos for us, cardiologists talking about the power of breath and how it affects the brain and how the brain affects the heart because it's so extraordinarily connected and people don't know that. And we're doing breath experts. We're doing mindfulness experts. We're doing experts on neurobiology, experts on

happiness. And I mean, there's so much that we're delving into now about health and wellness, but also about children and parental stuff. So I'm stimulated. So when you look at, will I be doing this all my life? Which is a question that we ask ourselves. Yeah. Sometimes if you care about more than what you're doing now, that you continue your interests, you keep looking at other things in the world than just what you're doing. Sometimes it leads you to a more purposeful life.

Oh, yeah. So it's pretty cool. Yeah. But are you going to act again? Yeah. I think I'm going to be Mrs. Claus again. I think so. Well, I mean, it's funny, Mom.

Look, you're iconic, you know, you're, you look at Diane Keaton and Meryl and Bet Midler and, you know, all of these people who seem to sort of still be working here and there, right? Or Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin and all of this. You know, you have just, it's almost like you had to almost carve your own path because no one knew where to put you. So you had to create shit for yourself in a sense. That's so true. Yeah, I did. And maybe that hasn't changed, you know, because there's no reason why you shouldn't be working

unless it's something that you're kind of just over. I know it's fun, but something has taken on a lot more meaning in your life rather than being an actor. Well, you know, when I produced, right, and I had my own production company for years and years, and I produced movies for me and for other people with my partner. but the movies that I wanted to do were produced mostly other than burden of wire and some of these crazy fun things were about something right it was about women it was about where we were today it was like trying to give you know a spoonful of medicine and laughing at the same time and which I thought was the best way to get your messaging across you know I was I felt I was kind of an oddity in a way because that that to me

I didn't have a thousand scripts on my desk the way a lot of women did. I was unusual, and I didn't have the opportunity to read this and read that and say, oh, I want to do that, oh, maybe I'll do that after that. Never worked out that way. And I think I was sort of averaged a year and a half or so between movies. Really? Yeah. So I knew somehow that I needed to create my own company.

And so we did. I had my own company. And therefore, I was able to create, you know, product, if you will. So I was always creating product, working on scripts, rewriting, working with writers, right? And I think what happened was, is that as one gets older, things change. Meaning my character, was not one that probably would adapt that well to being the old person. You see what I mean? So, and I'm looking at all of the areas of one's life that what are the things that are the truth about you, instead of pretending you're something else, right? Or having a fantasy that I can go on and I'll, you know,

I'll play my deal one day. No, no. I am always dreaming. And when I was 17, I had my own dancing school. So that should have kind of brought that on. But when I was in my 50s and I went up there with Wyatt, I wasn't waiting for the phone to ring. And I never wanted my life to be dependent on waiting for the phone to ring, for somebody to want me, to be a pawn on somebody else's board. I just didn't want to do it, not because I felt, better than them because it wasn't fun so i that's when i created mind up it's how it started slowly and my travels and all the things that i was interested in at the time which is spirituality biology brain how psychology and put all of these things together and that's how that happened and my dream was a big honkin dream and i sat in my meditation room up there and i i dreamed that I wanted this program to be global because I wanted our children

who are going to grow the wrong way and become angry and aggressive. I would like our children to learn how to look at a problem from 30,000 feet up so they wouldn't have the kind of anger or kind of polarizing

personalities not to come to decision-making together that we could make a better world through our children's help. Well, there's psychology there too. You know what I mean? It's about learning who you are and where you came from and why you are the way that you are, you know,

why you feel the things that you feel. Not just from a scientific standpoint. Yeah, this is what happens to your amygdala and it's the fight or flight and da-da-da-da. But at what point, I guess, can you get into the psychology of it? You know what I mean? Because you've got to dig out the root to really get rid of it. I agree with you.

I think it's vital. and I also think you have to be very, very honest with yourself. We can't just do things where we're going to make ourselves feel better by lying to ourselves. We could be responsible for a lot of things. It's like I look at your life and I'm thinking, God damn it, if I could change this, if I could have done that, I didn't know, what was I thinking? I wish I could put time back. And I take full responsibility for it.

I don't pretend it didn't happen just to make myself feel better, right? And I think that... But at the same time, you're doing the best that you could in that. well yeah i mean i can forgive myself in a way but at the same time it's clear it's nothing crazy we're talking about it's anything crazy it's you're a working actor you know you're also at that point single for a couple years you are a grown woman who needs to have experiences who wants to be with boyfriends who needs to go out and work and do their thing you know i mean that's just that that was the circumstances i know i know and and and and that

was, that's the way it was and that's the way it is and I get it and, you know, and everybody's driven by more than just thought. They're also driven by hormones and all kinds of things in that time of your life. So I, you know, I get that completely. So I don't know. I mean, I just think that if you don't get down to the bottom and I did with my family, definitely. I mean, I went deep when I was when I was 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27. I mean, I went for eight years to what I call the university of me. So I could scaffold and dig and excavate all kinds of things that happened to me that made a difference to me.

And I had interesting transference with my doctor who I thought was a genius. I mean, now I could look at it. And he became everything to me. He became my father. He became my mother. I mean, I transferred so much onto him. And I was so frigging young that my... It was so helpful for my brain that I was able to look at that and go, gosh, one time I was lying down.

It was Freudian, if you can believe it, right? And I was lying down. And he said, I think you need to lie down to free associate today, Goldie. And I went, oh, no, what I'm feeling so good. I'm really, I feel great. He said, no, no, no, no, no. You know, try this to lie down and say whatever comes to mind. It was like a punishment.

I went, okay. And I would lay there. and I got, I'm thinking about my car, I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about whatever, reminds me in my dad's car. I did this thing, and I was just sifting my brain, like peeling away an onion. And everything was coming out. It was sort of like meditation when you're meditating, and you've got all these thoughts come in and out of your brain.

The idea is to just let them go and come back to your breath or your mantra or whatever. That was just literally thought after thought after thought. Well, it always led me somewhere. And it was fascinating of the very things that I felt one time. I was lying there, remembering when I was in the crib, little. And I was lying, playing with my feet like a baby does. My physicality was matching where I believed I was in my head. And I had no idea.

I suddenly looked at myself and went, oh, my God, I'm lying here like a baby playing with my feet. Right. So there's such magic, truly, in peeling away the onion. It's not scary. You know, you can open that window that you think you never want to open. And you realize it's not that bad. Right. It's also the commitment. You have to commit to it, you know. And sometimes it's hard because you have to be vulnerable. And especially for men, I think it's harder to be vulnerable. I mean, even with a therapist. You know, when Aaron and I went through our shit, you know, when I had my two years of just being a horrible human being and spiraling, you know, my therapist didn't even fucking know about it. I didn't even tell him. Okay.

Because I was, I felt too ashamed to even talk to a professional someone who's going to keep the secret about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's hard. It's hard. It's hard. But it's not unusual. Yeah. it's not unusual coming threadbare opening your chest saying here I am full frontal

full frontal nudity yeah it's not that bad once you do it no it's not at all but but the fear which is god damn I'm not opening that door yeah right no I know it's amazing it's amazing I was amazing I was thinking about this the other night I was actually talking to Aaron about it just thinking about my life and where I came from and sort of my being a dad and having a stable relationship with Aaron. It's been 20 years. And I didn't come from that. You know what I mean? You and dad, that divorce, however that went down. And then you've got dad's side of the family and that whole thing with his dad, you know. And then I don't know what happened with my like great-grandfather. I have no idea. Right? And then on you,

your sides of things, you know, you had dad and then, and then grandma and grandpa were together, but it wasn't like the most healthy sort of perfect relationship. Well, they lived apart toward the last two years, yeah. Yeah. Nair each other. Right. Yeah. Do you think that the way that you carried on in your adult relationships was a reflection

of what you witnessed and what you were a part of in your upbringing, you know? Yeah, meaning like... In some ways, yes, but they ask, you know, the question is, who are you more like, you know? Do you take after your mother? Do you take after your father? I still don't have that answer because I am a traveler like my dad was. I am a curious investigator like my dad was. My dad was a musician and I play my body.

Okay, I play, I've been playing myself for a long time. That's my instrument. My father and I were absolutely best, best friends. He was quirky. He was unusual man. And my mother was a very strong, very, as we put it, took us on the table, straight arrow. I mean, truly one of the great. Grandma was one of the greats.

for sure so she she was very stabilizing because she was strong um and i can be like that there's no doubt about it so i think i'm a little bit of a combination of the two of them yeah and i remember that i tried very carefully as i witnessed my own mother um doing some things that i wouldn't do a little bit more controlling in a way um and so forth and i didn't want to be like that, right? But she loved fiercely. And you knew that you, that you were going to be okay when my mother was around. Yeah. So I wanted to, not to be my mother, and I think it's important to differentiate hugely to that. And my father, I mean, I embody him all the time. Yeah. So I think that happened because I went through for

forgiveness. And I did that very young, that I found out who they were. For instance, my mother, her mother, my grandmother, died when she was three years old, my mom. She was basically an orphan. She had no real brothers and sisters. She was an only child. She was three years old. And my grandfather gave her to my aunt goldie right and aunt goldie didn't ever let her call her mom or mommy or whatever because of her sister she had a mother and with that aunt goldy had seven other children my mother at the age of 16 got diphtheria she lost all her hair well i didn't know this and she nearly died really so she was there with her father

max who came to see her brought her things he remarried and I have to say that my grandfather was in many people's ideas not the greatest and then my mother decided that she was going to go

and the black sheep by the biggest party fun girl ever she was going to go to Washington during the war and get a job and she did Brave went with a girlfriend and Sal

they got the job and she met my dad right and she met daddy and they obviously had sex and she got pregnant that was the first baby that we just talked about

and my mother that's right and that with that they had to get married and he died and but she had a nervous breakdown She went to the rabbi She didn't know what to do The next thing you know New baby comes along

And that's my sister Patty So my mother looked at Patty Would not leave her all night long She stared at her in the crib So If my mother had any issues in life That I may have said Oh my mama then

I learned Right totally That she had a heart. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know. And then you came?

I mean, then what was that? And then I came eight years later. She made a decision. Eight years later. She made a decision if she was going to leave Daddy or have another child. Right. So she decided. Good choice.

To have another child. Yeah. Isn't that a crazy? Yeah. Either or, it's like, let's either get divorced or have another kid. I mean, those are two ends of the spectrum. Well, it was a way of supporting, like going back and creating more family and going back and being with my dad. Mm-hmm.

And what was grandpa's, your grandparents on that side? Do you know their story? Like his mom and dad? I think Otto died kind of early or something. I never knew him. So when I was still little, you know, I didn't know. and then Granny had four sons and one of them was my dad

and she was from the South and she was one of those women she had our glass figure and looked real good and she was one of those I love my boys and she was that person she used to say

she came to live with us and one time and I was a teenager I was like 13 and then my mom went to work and daddy went to work and she said are you going to leave me alone

was sleeping beauty again? She was like, I don't think she likes me very much. But, no, no, that was that. But Daddy's family was great. All the brothers and all the cousins. And they were all girls. Yeah, one boy. Oh, really?

Yeah. Stormy was the only boy. All the brothers had girls. Yeah, I mean, I relate to that because with my situation, I mean, from the outside, you know, with my dad, it's it's easy just to sort of hate and feel hurt and you know just not have any sort of compassion for his situation because it's all about me but when you really think about it and go back into his life you know which I've talked about before where his dad bailed on him in the middle of the night and he's sitting by the window horrible waiting for his father to come home right once you know that And how can one not have compassion and forgiveness for that? I agree with you.

You know what I mean? Yeah. It's for me personally, it's just sort of like, oh, man, that's fucking rough. And at that time, no tools, you know, to deal with that. No, and neither did his mother. Right. Neither did his mom. Yeah, it was just, you're just left to sort of wave in the wind and sort of move off, move into your life.

And good luck. that's right and you wonder where fear of abandonment comes in or these kind of things that people live with which you know can create a lifestyle a long life of fearing people are going to leave you um so that's very unstable an unstable perspective on your future um well it's coming back to mind up even like i'm 45 years old you know and it took me till i was maybe 40 to truly under what that forgiveness was after going to Hoffman and dealing with that and breaking down my relationship with you and with dad and with paw and all of it. But wouldn't it be nice to be able to do that earlier? You know what I mean? Because a lot of these kids have probably struggled with abandonment issues, with parental issues. And I know it's probably hard from a cognitive standpoint, whether you're how developed that brain is. But it would be nice to sort of understand that kind of forgiveness earlier on.

Well, that's a, interesting, not abstract, but you need to be a certain time and age to get some level of an understanding like that. Well, mind up, what it does is it prepares a child. It prepares their brain. It gets them used to feeling for someone else. That means that, you know, like compassion, empathy, can be taught, which is really important.

interesting. So when we do with the mind up, we do, you know, first of all, we learn about the parts of the brain that are the emotional parts, right? And then we learn about the prefrontal cortex, which is where you can think, make decisions, and so forth. And they learn about that. But in the experiential part of mind up, it starts to fire the brain and the neurons in a way that actually can create habituated thinking, meaning more positive thinking, or meaning that now we do an exercise where we do acts of kindness. Now, they do this, some of their very little. We're starting from preschool and all the way up to eighth grade. So it becomes beautifully habituated in the brain. When we think, do things, when we imagine things, when we are

feeling bad, all the, and feeling good, same thing, but it's different. Obviously, one's positive, one's negative. But these neurons are firing together, right? Firing, same story you're telling yourself, firing together, same story I'm telling myself, I'm not very good, I'm scared, I'm not going to get home. I'm not going to win. I'm not going to do well. I'm not going to get my grade's good. My mom, you know, my brother's bothering me. All negative. That means that they're wiring, meaning they're firing together means they're wiring together. When you wire neurons, it's hard to get out of the loop of this sort of internal chat. Oh God, I know that. Yeah. And that is a important part of what we're teaching children in the school. On you understand how these neurons work, you have

agency over your own brain by what you put in it. Because your thought is you. Your brain will basically manipulate it. So we talk about memories. We talk about the hippocampus and the things that we do remember and how sometimes we remember scary things, right? And but we have to understand that we have the understanding that we can supplant some of those things. So when a child feels that way at least they have more understanding of how to make themselves calm yeah and that's their brain break so we do three times a day a brain break so now the kids will say i think i need a brain break which means that they're becoming aware of themselves and what they're feeling this is huge yeah i mean if we don't do this when they're young yeah they won't have the plie that you get

to jump you know they won't have preparation i wish i had that i mean you talked about me remember i was negative meaning like I would start something and get frustrated and if I couldn't do it I just quit you know like these were negative thoughts negative patterns just playing out in my in my mind you know yeah how did you deal with that then with you know because obviously you didn't have the knowledge that you do now but with your kids what did you do you remember saying to you we try to you know reaffirmation of course you can do it I mean you know you know it's really simple you did it before you did it the other day. It's a way of trying to help them know that they can do it.

But at the same time, your mindset was so strong and I didn't have any other tools than to say, of course you can do it, you know. So it is a way of, because you would become anxious, you know, in which case then I may have said, okay, let's sit down and do our brain break, you know, because there is an example, which is really interesting. We had one child in a class who was an autistic child

and that his hands, he couldn't stop shaking his hands. They were taking a test and he went completely anxiety written. Well, one of the kids came up and said, do you think we could do a brain break and sit around the circle? And the teacher said, of course, and they did. And he stopped shaking his hands and he was able to contain himself and take the test. So these are biological and neurological assets.

happenings this is this is the result so the brain break isn't a meditation right no no so explain what that is you know because a brain break is what every brain needs a break okay our brains get overwork they get over tired yeah and by the way this can adults can do this and adults can do it right is that what we do have is we have something which i believe is a great apparatus um and you can use it however you want and if you don't have it it's fine but what i like is is that the the chime okay is only there because it brings your brain around a sound that means that you're settling your focused attention on a sound until you can't hear it anymore that already brings attention to the brain then you start to follow your breath and as you breathe in and out you realize that that

breath is actually going to get irregular. Sometimes you breathe in. Sometimes you take a deep deep breath. You can do any kind of breath you want. Just follow it. The reality about the brain is that it thinks no matter what. The brain is one of those things that just never stops thinking as we all could say, oh shit, I wish I could stop my brain from thinking.

Well, it doesn't stop. The brain is not your mind. Your brain is just a function. It's an amazing thing. It's apparatus for us. It's a great downloadable ability, like a computer. But the brain itself is just a squiggly, massive gray matter with gyri at the top and little areas of the brain

that actually where certain things get activated. So that's what you've got to know. Thought comes in. You just let it go like a cloud and come back to your breathing. And this could happen 50 times during a sitting. So when you do your short brain break, know that this is not going to take long. If you had a bell and did it, it would be awesome. I put it at my desk for sure or where you're working.

But at the same time, it is a great ability to relax your brain and your body. Breath, focused. We do it in the classroom for three and a half minutes. That's it. For an adult, five minutes goes by like wildfire. So I think for five minutes, you can find time to bring your blood pressure down, to bring your breath in an easier way. Sometimes when you get really relaxed, your breath is very soft.

You'll find that your breath is going to be much quicker when you start. But then as you settle your body and relax your body in your breath and also your ability to focus on that. Yeah. Then you will. It's funny too how, you know, especially kids are more, some are more apt to that sitting still and some aren't because we've done that with my three with Wilder Bodie and Rio.

First of all, Bodie wants to like meditate every day. He's like, we do a meditation. Like he gets in. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, he sits still and he's in. Wilder is all over the place. He cannot sit still. But that's his nature.

Yeah. He's just that, he's just that bubbly, sort of he's got that energy. running through him or that ADD or whatever the hell it is. But it's much more difficult for him. Right. Well, it can be developed, though. And what we have to realize is that anything that we want, if you want to do it, it's like dancing.

It's like doing a triple pirouet instead of a single one. You just have to practice. And it's the same thing. That's why they call it a practice because you can learn to quiet your mind. Oh, yeah. I've experienced that, you know. I've gone through meditations or moments of trying to meditate and where I really stick with it.

And from where it begins to where I end, you know, it's night and day. You can drop in much, much quicker, much easier. You can. But during my anxiety in the last however long, meditation is extremely important, but it was fucking hard. It was hard to sit still and actually go there. It was so all over the place. You know, I found moments, but it was more of just the act of doing it.

I think that's actually important. Sometimes you don't have a good meditation. I mean, you don't. Your brain is active. You've got stuff going on your mind. It's not easy to become a professional meditator. But what is important is that you do it. Yeah.

All right, I got to go. Okay. I mean, I love you. I love you. Thank you, Mom. This was fun. This is so great. It's 45 years I made it.

Lungs are good. You're so great. I love you. I love you. Bye. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Allison Bresden. Editor is Josh Windish.

Music by Mark Hudson, aka Uncle Mark. If you want to show us some love, rate the show and leave us a review. This show is powered by Simplecast. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be Kenspiracy theorists.

That's right. They give you the answers and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the I-Heart. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's important that we just reassure people that they're not alone, and there is help out there. The Good Stuff podcast, season two, takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit

fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. One Tribe, save my life twice. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's your favorite Jersey girl, Gia Judice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story.

This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rule Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana. Maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, Congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual Chaos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast.