Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - If You Do THIS, You’ve Given Up…with Mel Robbins: Part 2

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

From booze to unpaid bills, Mel Robbins shares all with Oliver and Mama Goldie, including what rock bottom looked like for her and how she pulled herself out of the depths of depression. Plus, what people do each morning that she calls a sign of giving up, and why pain - not positivity- is the greatest motivator.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airlines. The most Texas story ever. Listen to Business History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again.

We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends, like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg, to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day.

Stories that move markets. Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world and how you think about your bottom line. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

I'm Dr. Priyankawali, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I Have Scurvy at 3 a.m? And on our show, we're talking about health. in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely.

Listen to health stuff on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years. until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple. Podcasts.

Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling rivalry. No, no. Sibling rivalry. Don't do that with your mouth.

sibling revelry that's good so we're back part two the woman who changed my diapers golly han and of course mel robins yeah let's keep it let's keep it going guys because you went through a hard upbringing you really it really did and uh but i wonder where there's that grit came from because you you worked your way out of it you you became more i would say investigating your emotions and trying to figure out how to move through some of these darker memories and times but did you ever think that what you were going to do was to actually come up with practices and ways and means that you were i mean you were were were you a good lawyer i was an excellent lawyer i was a public defender you were a public defender yes because i was

fighting for somebody else. Right. And do you think that this translates into what you do? I think the closest thing that I have done in the past to what I do now is when I was a legal aid lawyer. Yeah. And I was assigned to represent people who did not pick me in a moment where they had very difficult decisions to make and the stress was at an all-time high and I might be the only person in their corner. And so, you know, one thing that I will just say that, that, you know, for me, my childhood was fine. It was in my 40s when things got horrible. Oh, okay.

Yeah, so my childhood, I grew up in the Midwest. My parents were great. Like, I had a, my childhood was fine. Do you have siblings? Yeah, I have a younger brother. My sister-in-law, who he's married to, is my business partner. So my life started to fall apart, really, in my 30s and 40s. and it was kind of the compounding aspect of undiagnosed anxiety, undiagnosed dyslexity.

Was it an emotional fall apart, you know, or was it more of like... Yeah, like, I don't think anybody ever wakes up and says, you know what, today I'm going to screw up my life. I think I'm going to snort a bunch of coke and cheat on my spouse and drive my car into a wall, quit my job, say something that gets me canceled. Like, nobody does that intentionally. Right. And what happens is you start to make small decisions. that aren't aligned with your higher calling and who you know yourself to be.

And they start to slowly take you off course. Did you recognize in the moment that you were making these decisions? Not at all. No, when you're asking for the next beer or you're like, no, you're spending too much money that you don't have. I've been in those doldrums and there is a part of me that knows, though, that, oh, this is by decision. You have more self-awareness than I did.

Like I literally just was trying my best to get through my life and keep up with the Joneses and make money and, you know, not hate my husband too much. And I just get through it. Yeah. And I found myself in my 40s and I'm grateful for this. I'm so grateful that success came later because if you have an experience where your house has liens on it, your $800,000 in debt, you cannot pay for groceries. You're pulling your kids out of town soccer. your friends and family have invested in your husband's pizza restaurant and you're now unemployed when you have that experience you don't forget it and when you almost lose your family and your

house and your sanity you don't take it for granted and so all i was trying to do honestly goldie was i recognized as hard as my husband was working to try to fix what was happening in our life, like, it wasn't working. And at some point, if I wanted the, if I wanted to keep the house, if I wanted to get out of debt, if I wanted to feel better, I couldn't lay in bed like a human pot roast. I couldn't like drink myself into the ground. I had to do something. Did you ever want to give up? I don't know what that means. I think giving up, I didn't want to kill myself, but I think what giving, what giving up feels like is you give up all day long. If you wake up in the morning, the first thing that you feel is dread and you hit the snooze button, you just gave up.

If you hit it again, you give up again. You hit it again, you give up again. If you grab the donut instead of making yourself some eggs, you've kind of given up a little bit. And I'm not saying there's not a lot of complicated things that go into those types of decisions. I had a donut the other day. You probably, you chose it intentionally. You gave up. A hole.

A donut hole. You gave up. I mean, I eat donuts all the time. Were you drinking a lot? Oh, hell yes. Oh, you were. Absolutely. And that was, there was a numbing effect.

That was, that was, you want to know how bad things got? This is how you know you're failing at parenting. Yeah. When the kids go to bed, you start drinking Manhattan's, like four or five of them. And then the next thing you remember is when you wake up in a chair in the living room because your three kids have missed the bus and they're making you up. That's how you know you're failing at this parenting thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so that was happening. Yeah. And what, you know, and this is the thing that I talk about a lot because I experienced it is you can know what to do. Right. But how do you make yourself do it? That's the $50 million. That's right there. That's it. That's it right there. That's it right there. I knew I needed a job. I knew I needed to stop screaming at Chris. I knew I needed to stop yelling at the kids. I knew I needed to tell my parents what was happening. I knew I needed to open the bills that had been piling up for six months. I couldn't do it. And what all the psychologists, in researching the various books I've written, and now I feel confirmed by my own experience, and you of course know this, is that there is a tremendous relationship between pain and the will to change. And it's a fantasy to think that most of us are positively motivated to change. The human brain, because of the negativity bias, is actually wired to default towards what's easy now. you have to make a conscious, intentional decision

to force yourself to do things that feel hard if you want to change. And for most of us, I am very negatively motivated. So I'm stubborn. Like it took a lot of pain for me to get to a point where I'm like, well, drinking myself into a ground, destroying my marriage, not paying bills, feeling this level of shame.

Sitting here is now harder than getting out of bed. I can relate to that. And so understanding that you can either let your life get worse before it gets better because it's going to. It's going to get worse. Or you can decide that where you're at is no longer where you want to be and you can recognize your never, motivation is complete net or garbage.

You're never going to feel like doing what you need to do. You have to force yourself to do it. That's the skill. Did you have a lot of stop and starts? Always, every day. I'm speaking of my own experience. Boom, I'm fucking on it. I'm not going to drink anymore.

I'm going to be healthy. I'm going to get my life together. And bang, it's great. Three weeks. And then, oh, no, what happened? Here I am again. Yes, you listened to how you felt instead of focusing on what you need to do. Right.

And so at what point was that true inflection point, where it was just like, okay, here we are. I am moving on to the next part of my life. So I think you change your life with one decision. The results of that decision show up. up over time. There's a big difference between the will and the desire to change, which begins with a singular decision, and the results that show up because you keep showing up. And it is always fits and starts. It is a myth that you will be perfect like a robot. In fact, Strava is this great fitness app. Yeah, I'm on it. Well, they've crunched all the data

and there's actually a day that is called quitter's day based on hundreds of millions of pieces of data. Day 19 is the average day when people quit. And the reason why is because you have forced yourself to start something new. You have recognized it's going to be challenging and you've pushed yourself through it. But by day 19, it's now grueling and boring and you don't see the results yet. And that's when most people... And you're not getting a dopamine reaction. Correct. And that's when most people give up is right around day 19. And what I love, though, is this piece of research, because a lot of us, we are always going to go in fits and starts. That's just how it goes.

And so I want you to think about change like climbing a staircase with landings. When you go up a flight of stairs, if you get to a landing, you're still up that flight of stairs. Yeah. The landing is just a plateau. And most of us think that we failed. No, no, no. It's just a plateau. You still keep the game.

Yeah. When you go up the next flight and push yourself again. after not going to the gym for the week, you didn't lose that flight you already climbed. And it's a mistake to think you're going back to zero because you're not giving yourself the credit for how far you've come. Yeah.

Also, there's an idea that once you get excited about what you're doing, right, it's like playing a piano. You love your first lessons. They're really terrific. Yeah. But you can't learn to play the piano in a day or a month. or even six months, you have to stay practicing all the time in order for that to happen. And it's the same thing with behavior. It's the same thing with creating more habitual behavior

in your brain. So we have to realize and be patient with ourselves to know. And that's what that's the, I love that analogy. That's the landing. Yeah, it's just a landing. That landing is a place for incubation. Well, you know, one of the things that I think a lot about is you mentioned grit. And I recently sat down with uh professor angela duckworth who wrote that big book about grit and i was floored because i never knew this that when she studied grit that there is four requirements in order for somebody to demonstrate grit and there's one particular requirement that nobody talks about and that's that you actually like and want to be good at the thing yeah it is impossible i think to be really good at something

that you don't really like. But you can teach yourself just like I've taught myself how to unload the dishwasher. I don't like doing it. I hate it. But I make myself do it. Right?

I don't like folding laundry. But I make myself do it. Yeah. Yeah. I'd rather wash dishes, which I do myself. Me too. And I'd rather wash the clothes than fold them. I don't know what that is.

But what is it? But that moment. I mean, now you're in your 40s and then bang. Oh, what happened? Yeah, what happened? Oh, I was wasted on bourbon. Right.

And I was having a pep talk with myself. I don't know if you've ever, you probably have. All the time. All the loud. Yeah. Like, it's one thing if you're giving a friend advice. I have screamed at myself in the mirror. Okay.

Get it together, Oliver. Yes. Get it together. Yes. Okay. So I was doing that. Yeah. And I was watching TV.

It was February 2008. And it was like, that's it, woman. Tomorrow. Tomorrow it's the new you. Tomorrow, you are going to get a job. You're going to be nice to Chris. You're going to stop drinking. And tomorrow, when that alarm rings, you are not going to lay there like a human pot roast.

You are going to get out of bed and get those kids on that bus. And honest to God, at that exact moment, a rocket ship blasted across a TV screen at the end of a commercial. And I was so drunk, I was like, it's aside from God. Oh, no. I hear you. I'll launch myself out of bed like a rocket. Yeah. It was honestly, probably the bourbon.

and divine intervention and swirled together in one gigantic life-changing cocktail. That's really interesting. But here's the thing, everybody. I believe that you are designed

to thrive and grow and be happy. And even when you're miserable and stuck, there are so many glimmers and signs all around you to pay attention to it. And that was my. So one of the trips I'm most grateful for

was this summer in Greece and it was amazing and the whole family was together that doesn't happen very often some sun, a few laughs and my kids love anything adventurous so it was right up our alley and what makes those trips

even more special is staying in a place on Airbnb because you're not just visiting you're living a local life for a while which makes the experience so much more memorable so if you're planning to travel this November it's also a great time to think about hosting your own home on Airbnb and the best part,

you don't have to handle everything on your own. With Airbnb's co-host network, you can partner with someone local to help manage your listing, your guests, and everything in between. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com slash host. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu, a comedian and someone. who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m.

On health stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that, like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but, like, you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith.

This is Jacob Goldstein. And we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History, a business history. about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas, and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all.

It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline business. The most Texas story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that. story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all

bad. And we'll talk about some of the classic great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked. Like Thomas Edison and the electric chair. Listen to business history on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn. And on my new podcast, Here We Go again. And we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host.

Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lili Singh, and Bill Nye.

When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday. A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market. What does a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy? Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsize indicators of inflation.

What's behind Elon Musk's trillion-dollar payout? There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House. And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't? CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the

iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you believe in signs? Of course. I have, I am an expert. I am an expert manifester. I train my brain to work for me. I look for signs all day long. I believe that the let them theory success.

Yeah. And just the jaw-dropping success. of my podcast and the Let Them Theory, the timing of when this book came out, it cannot be explained by anything other than hard work meets the universe guiding this as part of the counter-programming to the negativity and the collective illusion of division that we see in the headlines and that in any moment in history when there is a rise of darkness, there is a corresponding rise in light, and I feel deeply connected to that. I do not feel that it is me. I feel very much in service of something for way bigger than a human being.

You do? Absolutely. Absolutely. I love hearing that. And I relate. I really believe that. And I know you do. I know you do. I mean, what is it that drives us? You know, it isn't necessarily tangible. It's just a pull. It feels like a spiritual pull. of some kind that said if I'm going to, if that is my thing and I'm going to be used to do this and I make sense and people are feeling better. It's not about me. It's about them. Yes. And that's what I'm loving about your being, about your, all things that you're doing, all the care that you're giving and all the enthusiasm around how you are participating, not just in your life, but in theirs. Did success scare you at all? No, because I know,

matters to me like you've never seen a hearse pull on a you all like you're not going to take anything with you but you're going to leave something important in how you lived your life while you're doing it is an incredible sense of not just belonging and i will say purpose because that purpose is one of the areas that some people don't feel they have any purpose that's not a good feeling right now but here's your purpose the purpose your purpose is you If you don't know what to focus on, make being a better version of yourself your single biggest project because change does not come from the top. No.

Change comes from within. And when you become just a little bit happy, a little bit better, a little bit more positive, you feel a little bit more hopeful. You take a little bit better care of yourself. It ripples through your family. It ripples through your... It's called the 1% or... I'm sure.

Yeah, because it's true. Make yourself just one percent better each day. That's it. That's it. And it literally, like, do not be gaslit into believing you have no power. Yeah. You are powerful beyond your wildest imaginations. As long as you stop giving your power away to other people and to the headlines. You said, turn off the news.

Yeah. Put down your phone. I also think you have to give yourself grace because I think a lot of us don't. We're very hard on ourselves. Because these are powerful words. They're inspiring. And you get emboldened to go out there and do it. and you make five steps forward and then you're going to fall.

And then sometimes we get hard on ourselves like, oh, I'm fucked. That's it. I gave it a shot. I can't. We have to give ourselves some grace. You give yourself the grace the moment you fall because the real skill isn't starting. It's that when you have a few days or weeks or months or a year where you don't do what you want or need to do, give yourself grace to then pick yourself back up and keep up. One of the things I said to Wyatt, he was playing hockey, and he had a concussion.

I went there, obviously made him breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and I had a chef. Also, I mean, I was kidding. But I went there, and then we had breakfast the next day. And, you know, I said, Tim, you know, life, really, we're going to fall down. And he's a goaltender. We're going to get knocked down. That's what life is. It's not that simple.

However, the mark of the man truly is how fast you get up. And it's like you, if you're defending the goal, you've got to get up fast, dude. And that's really the way we are. That is a part of grit. That is a part of saying, I can. That also says, I can defend this goal. I can do that. And once you fall and it doesn't work, you're going to say, I'm getting up again, and I'm starting all over.

And that is so true because the whole idea of falling down, being knocked down, doesn't mean your life is over. It means that you have the capability of get up, man, get right up. Because you're going to, you'll win at the game of life. Well, you're actually designed to. Like, if they, I can't remember what the research is, but when a baby is learning to walk, they fall an average of 17 times an hour. And no baby, because they don't have language yet, when they fall, lays there and goes, well, that's it.

I'm screwed. I'll be the only one who never walks again. But then we develop language, and we become self-critical. and we develop a narrative that keeps us from getting up. And that's not to say there's something wrong if you're there. It's to say that if your brain learned to do that, your brain can actually learn how to tell you to get up again. And it's designed to.

How many kids do you have? Three, 26, 25, and 20. Okay. So growing up, when they're growing up, when you were in your bad spot. And my peak dysfunction. Right. Like, first of all, how was that being apparent? Horrible.

Yeah, horrible. And were they, did they recognize that mom was? I know, they didn't really. They didn't, like, we didn't start the heavy drinking until they were in bed. We at least had some boundaries. Yeah, yeah. And then on the other side of that. And we weren't yellers or that kind of stuff.

Like, I yelled at Chris. Yeah. But not, I didn't, I mean, I would event, I would, like, all parents snap occasionally. Sure. And then with the, on the other side of that, with you being who you are right now and just this vast, not, so much knowledge, which I want to get into for two seconds after. All learned the hard way by fucking everything. up. That's what, right, but, but are you just so well read? Because once you left this old life essentially, and not, not that they don't combine, but sort of moved into the next phase,

were you just learning through reading and researching and studying and having people on and having conversations, you know, were you a voracious sort of intellect? I'm a voracious intellect. Yeah. I have a massive brain and I didn't realize how much of an engine it was. Like my superpower is to take the complex and distill it down into a singular thing that's relevant to somebody who is just trying to do a little better. You're so right. It's true. That's what I do. When I listen to you, you're so engaged. Well, because I'm listening for how is this relevant to a teacher?

You are because there's a million podcasts out there. Look, you know, theories are theories and people say this and there's cognitive behavioral therapy, all of it. but there's something about you. I know what I'm doing. That is very fucking engaged. Yes. It's you're trustworthy and you are also listening authentically. You know, I mean, I think that for me feels like your superpower to me.

It's like, wow. She's right there. Thank you for reflecting that back to me. It's about, and you've used this word a number of times. I'm an extremely intentional person. and I'm very much driven by mission and values. And if somebody is, if somebody somewhere around the world, who has no time, by the way, because they're working,

they're caring for aging parents, they've got little kids, they're running around, they've got bills to pay. So if you take a person like that who just wants to do a little better and feel a little better, and they're going to make time that they don't have and they're going to spend it with me, you better believe I'm going to do everything I possibly can to make the time that they spend of value for them. And so when I sit in the chair on my podcast, I have that one person in mind. And I know as much as the experts about the topic because I have read every single

page of their book. I have poured over the research. We spend probably 30 to 40 hours. We do pre-interviews. We then spend two to three hours with every expert. We then spend another 50 hours in post to make sure that if you're going to spend an hour listening to the Mel Robbins podcast, you felt different, you felt better, you felt hopeful, and it was valuable information either for you or that it was a free resource to send to somebody else. And the fact that we can offer that for free because of our support, that's incredible. And so I know my role there.

And back to that thing about success, you know, I, I am blown away by the success of the podcast and the just jaw-dropping success of the Let Them Theory because it gives me hope. Isn't it amazing? Because it's just so simple. It's just so simple, but complex. Well, that's the key. Yes. But, you know, and it came from a place of inspiration.

Well, it came from a place of me, I've always been frustrated with my people pleasing and the friction I cause in relationships and the jealousy that I feel and the ways that I've held myself back because I feel like if somebody else has it, then I can't have it, like a very limited point of view. And so in trying to work through those limitations, that's why the book is what it is. I'm the villain. Like, all those stories are real. They're the things I'm not proud to admit that I was feeling or experiencing.

And this theory profoundly changed me from the inside out. But what I love about all this is it's a sign, despite the headlines, that people want more meaning. They want more connection. We are seeking ways to simplify our lives because we have so over-optimized for productivity and profit-making.

that we've lost touch with what actually gives you meaning as a human being. And so I feel hopeful that people are turning towards messages like your podcast and mine to find a sense of power and your foundation work and non-profit that people are wanting and knowing something's deeply wrong and yet there are things I can do to make it better because there are. But I am grateful that it's happened when I'm 57. Like I live on a mountain in Vermont. Yeah. I don't, I don't see, like, I, I, I am so clear that I just want to spend more time with my husband, Chris. I want to make sure my kids still talk to me, you know, and we have a good relationship. Are they always like, mom, okay, I know, I've read the book. No, I don't give them advice.

You never, you know, that's the worst thing to do. Like, I literally, my, my, my phrase as a parent is always, do you want me to listen? Yeah. Or do you like to know what I think? And they always, I just want you to listen. And so I know my role. as a wife and a friend and as a mom, as a daughter, as I know what my role is there and it is not what I do for work. If I were workmel in my life, I would probably be divorced.

Right. And my kids would hate me. Right. Oh, God. Yes. Oh, I know. So one of the trips I'm most grateful for was this summer in Greece and it was amazing.

And the whole family was together. That doesn't happen very often. Some sun, a few laughs. And my kids love anything adventurous. So it was right up our alley. And what makes those trips even more special is staying in a place on Airbnb. Because you're not just visiting. You're living a local life for a while, which makes the experience so much more memorable. So if you're planning to travel this November, it's also a great time to think about hosting your own home on Airbnb. And the best part, you don't have to handle everything on your own. With Airbnb's co-host network, you can partner with someone local to help manage your listing, your guests, and everything in between. Find a co-host at Airbnb.com

slash host. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m. On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health, but also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic.

How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are. Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that you, like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know.

It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to health stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Smith. This is Jacob Goldstein. And we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast called Business History

about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people. horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business. Having a genius idea without a need for it is nothing. It's like not having it at all. It's a very simple, elegant lesson. Make something people want. First episode, How Southwest Airlines Use Cheap Seats and Free Whiskey to fight its way into the airline business.

The Most Texas Story ever. There's a lot of mavericks in that story. We're going to have mavericks on the show. We're going to have plenty of robber barons. So many robber barons. And you know what? They're not all. back. And we'll talk about some of the classic

great moments of famous business geniuses, along with some of the darker moments that often get overlooked, like Thomas Edison and the electric chair. Listen to business history on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host.

Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lili Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is.

But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The force is shaping the world's economy. and financial markets can be hard to spot. Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them. And even harder to understand. Donald Trump's trade war, 2.0,

is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in, to connect the dots. How unusual is a deal like this? Unprecedented. Every weekday after. afternoon, we dive deep into one big global business story.

The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing. They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right. Last thing. What are your hangups? You know, what are Mel's issues? Like, what are you work on? I mean, do you still have things we all do, but are there things about you that you just need to shift and change and, or do you feel pretty complete? not they will always be complete you know i um it's a great question i i definitely am always going to

work on emotional reactivity like obviously emotions or chemical explosions very good i i love that yeah that happen and if you don't respond to them they tend to rise and fall in 90 seconds but i've kind of gotten to a point i've done enough EMDR and psychedelic therapies and all that kind of Have you done psychedelic therapies? Yeah, we've actually done it as a family. We've had two therapists do guided MDMA therapy as a family. And how was that? Life-changing.

It was life-changing. Absolutely. One of the most extraordinary. And Chris's 86-year-old mother was with us. It is the most life-changing experience. But again, we used the Maps Protocol. We had two guides, therapists, a whole integration thing, you know, that last weeks afterwards. We're going to do it again this year before Thanksgiving.

And you've done a bunch of research on it. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And so I, you know, for me, I think that it's just not allowing stupid shit to hijack my emotions. And what I've come to learn is that I'm self-aware enough and I'm committed enough to being peaceful and to holding space of acceptance and compassion for myself and others that. if I am a real bitch, I typically need a sandwich or a nap. Like there's like, you know, the system is running on empty. Yeah.

Because I've really changed. Like the person that I was at 54 when I first started creating this theory and building the case for it, I mean, completely different human being three years later. Because of let them as a boundary between you and other people in the world. It's a big one. And it helps you protect yourself and it helps you understand what's worth holding space up here and what's worth allowing you to impact here. And the let me part is where you do all the work you talk about, Goldie, which is you get to

choose. Like this is how you take responsibility for your life. And responsibility, if you look at that word, it's just the ability to respond. To respond to what's happening around you, to respond to other people's moods and expectations and opinions. and to choose consciously and intentionally, to use your word again. Yes. It's an interesting longer discussion, but we're really being challenged on that level, right?

Yes, we are. It's very, very hard. People are inflamed. It's hard for them to, you know, grapple with their high-level emotions around the polarity about what's really going on. Perception people have, both different. It all, there's a reason for it, but I've never seen anything like this in my life. and it is really debilitating.

It's breaking people up. It's losing friends. Yeah. There's a lot of things that are basically happening because we can't let them. It's so true. You know, you guys should have on Dr. Todd Rose. He's one of the most important guests that I've had on the podcast in three years. His name is what?

Dr. Todd Rose. Todd. He was a professor at the Harvard Graduate School of Education and then left to start. a non-partisan think tank. He has the world's largest private data set of what people believe. Oh, I love that. And what he does in his research

is he'll give you a list of, I'll give you an example of the research. He'll give you 60 criteria. And he will ask you to go into a room privately and say, okay, you two. I want you to rank what you privately believes living a successful life means. And you have to rank them in order.

So it's not like it's this or that. Rank them one to 60. So you rank them all. He's done this with, I don't know, tens of thousands of people, all different backgrounds, politically, spirituality, age, everything. Do you know, when you rank it privately, of the top 10 things that people privately say this means a successful life, eight are exactly the same? And the number one criteria that people privately say means a successful life is I have spent my life doing something that's meaningful that makes a difference for other people. now when you then ask each of you to take the same 60 and go okay how do you think other people would rank this and define success number one is money money status right like all of it

none of which hits in the top 10 for most people wow and his work is all about the fact that we are living in this collective illusion where the loudest voices So 80 to 90% of the content you see online is from 10% of the accounts, that the loudest and most extreme voices are now dominating the public discourse. And the problem is the 80 to 90% of us are self-silancing. And when you self-silance,

you're self-silencing because you actually believe that a majority of people agree with this horseship that you see happening in the news. when the truth is, and he has the research to prove it, 80 to 90% of people want the same things. Yeah, we may disagree on policy, but I remember a time a decade ago where people actually work together.

But something has happened in terms of the way that the media has been attacked and social media has been hijacked, and bots have come in. One out of every four interactions you have online on social media is with a bot, not a human being. and people don't know this therefore we sell silence and there's a lot of hope because the hope comes from and he's got a lot of historical examples in the data oh i love that the second that

people start going this doesn't make sense this doesn't feel right you start actually finding the courage to be authentic the whole illusion shatters just like the emperor with no clothes nobody wants to say anything because it's the emperor and you know the emperor is cantankerous and mentally ill and narcissistic and out for profit and power and so insecure. But the second somebody goes, you're naked. The whole thing falls apart. And so I do feel very hopeful because of the historical examples. And it's not going to happen from up top.

It happens from within. We all have a role. Yeah, exactly. So let them say what they're going to say and focus. on the let me part. Let me show up in my life in a way where I feel authentic, where I am expressing myself and my beliefs, where I am living in a way where I'm aligned with my values and my sense of character. And if I do that, trust, you give other people permission to do that. It's really, it is true. It goes out to the speaking engagement I did. So, well, how do you not

lose yourself, you know, after all the world, the work that you've done and the time you put in and everything that's happened with you. And I said, well, if you know yourself, you won't lose yourself. Yes. And I think the idea of how can we learn more and be open and fair to ourselves as to who we are and how we want to become someone that we have, oh, I like myself. I have integrity. You like being you.

Yeah. And we can work at that. Yes, we can. It's just beautiful. Well, I think that's why Let Them is so powerful because it teaches you how to stop giving so much time and energy and power to other people. It teaches you to stop looking out there for the actual validation that you need, which needs to come from yourself. Exactly. I have one other's little thing that I had, which is when I started the program, I was teaching brain science because why we asked them to learn when they don't know what they have, what tool they have.

So it was a way out there idea. It was like crazy, disturbance, whatever. And people said to me, you will never, ever teach the brain, and you will not get meditation in the classroom. And my answer, watch me. You did it. My point is, it's like, I knew what I could do. I knew the research.

I knew these things. So anybody could say whatever they want. Yes, let them. Let them. Oh, right there. Beautiful ending. And mom, what I took from all of this is we're doing MDMA as a family. You have to.

Yes. No, it is the most extraordinary experience. Right. But, but, but you know what I like about it? Raw and unguided. No, what I like about it, you guys, is that it suspends the amygdala so you can, like, you literally set the intention and you revisit things in your life. But what I love about it is that this, you know, you have your eye mask on.

the music's the guy. The second you do this, you're out of it. Like, if you have to go to the bathroom, you feel it. And then you're like, oh, my God, where to the video? I got to go the bathroom and get back in it. Wow. And so you don't, like I have no interest in doing a drug like ayahuasca where I'm going to puke and purge and all this shit with these strangers

so I can learn, I can rely on myself. Fuck that. No, I wouldn't remind you either. Yeah, I want the things that have been studied in clinical settings and that have this extraordinary. What about? What about psilocybin? Like, John's Hopkins are doing it.

Yeah, absolutely. Like, I haven't done the psilocybin because it can go a little dark. I prefer the things that stay a little bit more in the heart. Do you know scientifically, chemically, what's happening to the brain with the MBMA? Yes. Can you just quickly? Yes. I know we're short on time, but I'm so interesting.

Well, actually, you know what I should do? I'm going to send you instead. Yeah, send me instead. The expert, the two experts you should have on the show that can actually explain what's happening in it. That's a great idea. Because it, it, it, it affects, like, what's so incredible is that, you know, if you, actually, you should have Dr. Lisa Miller on from Columbia. Okay. She studies the neuroscience of spirituality.

Oh, I know, Lisa. She's amazing. Well, so she can explain all this, but if they're looking at the brain of somebody having a spiritual experience, it's looks exactly the same whether it is somebody chanting in tongues, somebody in deep meditation, somebody having an orgasm, somebody in awe with nature. or somebody having a deeply psychological or... Psychedelic. Because there is a part of the brain that comes online where you are disassociated from self. And you are able to be in the present moment

without, like, managing your physical space. Like, there's a part of the brain that locates you in a physical space. Right. Right. Spatial relations. Yes. And there's something about these spiritual and psychedelic and other experiences. that the brain is designed to do,

but it also removes you from the physicality of the space and connects you with more of the quantum field and that energetic aspect of the experience. It's amazing. Really amazing. Send me, I would love to read that stuff. So, beautiful.

Thank you for taking the time. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Jacob Goldstein, and we used to host a show called Planet Money. And now we're back making this new podcast.

called Business History about the best ideas and people and businesses in history. And some of the worst people, horrible ideas and destructive companies in the history of business. First episode, how Southwest Airlines use cheap seats and free whiskey to fight its way into the airline is. The most Texas story ever. Listen to Business History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Cal Penn. And on my new podcast, here we go again, we'll take today's trends. and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends, like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg,

to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day. Stories that move markets.

Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world and how you think about your bottom line. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the podcast health stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyankawali, a double board certified physician.

And I'm Hurricane Dibolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, do I have scurvy at 3 a.m. And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Listen to health stuff on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up.

Bad things happens to good people. and small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season, ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast.