Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Jason and Tyler Ritter

Episode Date: September 2, 2020

Jason and Tyler Ritter join Kate and Oliver on this week's episode of "Sibling Revelry." They look back on funny high school memories and crazy 90's trends, talk about Jason's love for Nirvana, how they both got into acting, and more. They also open up about losing their father at such a young age and how humor and coming together as siblings helped them through difficult times. Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver HudsonProduced by Allison BresnickMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is powered by Simplecast.This episode is sponsored by Coors Light and SakaraSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece, we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special.

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You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't auditioned in, like, over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We'll talk about all that's viral and trending with a little bit of cheesement

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We want to. to do something that highlighted our relationship and what it's like to be siblings we are a sibling revelry no no sibling reverie don't do that with your mouth sibling revelry that's good Oliver. We got to interview Jason and Tyler Ritter, which was really fun. I went to school with Jason. He was a year younger than me.

Jason's disposition is so sweet. Yes. And so pure. And so genuine. Like, I love that guy. I wish I could be like him in a way. He's so sunny. Yeah.

We're keeping this entire thing in as the intro. Exactly. Oh, shit. This is our attempt to do the intro. This is one of my favorite episodes. It was so fun because I listened to the whole thing and I was just like everything about it makes me feel good. And just their whole energy, both of their energies is so wonderful.

Like, you're sunny is the right word. I mean, I know you're super high right now. Yeah, but you're really, really hitting on some good stuff. He's very sunny. So I never really knew Tyler because he's so much younger. And he's just as sweet and awesome as his brother. I mean, anyway, this was great. I think people are going to love this.

I also think, too, like the way that they've handled their father's passing and how they talk about it and express themselves. I think it would be really helpful to so many people. No, I know. I was actually curious if we were going to broach that, if we were going to get into it or not. I wasn't sure. And when we did, I was happy that we did.

It was actually nice to be able to talk about it and just have that memory. But anyway, I just, I think that the way that they, you know, there's some real, their sense of humor is just, like, enlightening. So, all right, so. I hope everybody enjoys this episode with Jason and Tyler Ritter. So Jason and Tyler,

welcome to sibling revelry. Sibling revelry, just for people listening. You know, we went to school together, and so, you know, we've known each other a long time. Yeah. Were you in the drama department at Crossroads? I was in the drama department at Crossroads. Yeah.

Nerd. One of my fondest memories is our improv. Do you remember this? Yeah, I remember the improv. And your dad was one of the judges. Do you remember? Yeah, that's right. Well, that's a little biased, don't you think?

I took the gold every time. I never. I just wanted to say that I had the fondest memory of, and memories of your dad being just the sweetest. He was the sweetest. He was awesome. And not to just start it right off the bat with the fact that you guys were really young when dad passed away.

But I think it's going to inform a lot about what we talk about being siblings and what happened during that time. You guys were both sort of like entering the world and something that. sudden happens. But I just wanted to sort of off the bat acknowledge that and then kind of rewind a little bit. And let's share with everybody sort of, you know, what the sibling dynamic is. And who's the oldest? By the oldest. And then there's Carly who was between Tyler and I, who's two years younger than me, three years older than Ty. And then Tyler five years younger. He's the baby. He's the baby. We have a younger brother, no.

And Noah, yeah. Yeah. So all full siblings? Noah is our half-s. And how old is Noah? No one. 21. Yeah.

Geez, that's so creepy. All, like, going to be wrapping up college pretty soon, which is mind-wise. Because I was 19 when he was born, which is so crazy. So I was already out of the house. Yeah. And, yeah. That's crazy. Oh, God, time goes by so fast.

I feel like I just graduated. in high school, and now I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. You kind of still look like you just still just graduated high school. Whatever, like, they have. There's this thing called, like, an inflammation level in people's bodies and how high or low it is determines, like, what you actually, like, how you age. Oh, really? Inflammations.

Yes. Jesus. I've been inflamed since, like, three days old. You're, like, so inflamed. It's crazy. I'm as flaming as they get. You're actually nine years old. A lot of people don't know.

Right, exactly, exactly. Okay, so where were you born? Are you guys Cedars kids or St. John's? St. John's, yeah. St. John's, yeah. Wow. Yeah, we're Cedars kids, so fuck off. Oh, wow, it's like that.

Oh, okay. I wish I knew that before we said yes to this thing. Lucky we're grooming. Jason, so Carly was the first one to come home. Do you remember? I kind of remember. I mean, it's that kind of thing where I heard a bunch of stories, and then I've included those into my memories.

But I remember some great stories. I've heard some great stories and some not so great stories. Apparently I was, like, so excited. And then after a certain period of time, I was like, oh, well, that was great. So when did we drive her back to? the hospital. Yeah. It's just so much fun to have a sister

for a little while, but it's just the three of us. It's sort of the thing. And then I became like, as far as I can put together, I became very half like protective and half like trying to destroy her.

So I, which is weird to say, because I don't think like I'm an evil person at heart, but you hear stories about yourself before you were like conscious doing like sociopaths and you're like

huh that's what what were some of the things that you were you were doing well like I think an example that that um sort of encapsulates both of these things is she really wanted to at a certain point maybe she was like two or at this point I was four

or three and five something like that she really wanted to me to open the gate to go out into the street so I opened it for her true gentleman told her to look both ways yes exactly

and then I was like Mom yeah Carly's gone yeah she's either up the street or down the street

somewhere in the street I can't get her I'm six or fun of it whatever was yeah and then there are another story that I heard

where my mom saw me I was going Carly come on this way, this way, and she was crawling after me. And I was going to, yeah, come on. All right there, right there. And then I just took the sliding door

and very softly just started to like squeeze it on her head. So darned. That's amazing. You're like trying. This is like weird Ted Bundy shit, Jay. No, no, no, no. This is as natural as it gets. No, it's, I think there's like an animalistic, like this new thing.

is going to take my food. It's like a weird survival thing. Then you grow out of. And obviously, I love my sister so much. And I would never hurt her in any way. You should try closing a door on her head. Yeah. See if she remembers.

Right. She'd take me down. But yeah, so I remember, like, there were some stories like, yeah. But I think for the most part, we really got along a bunch of adventures and loved each other very much. And then Tyler came along a little bit after that. And I was a little bit older, I was more mature, I was five at that point. Was it nice having a brother?

Was it sort of like, did you remember that? When I was, I was 10 when Wyatt came into our lives. Oh, wow. But I remember when it was revealed that he was a boy, right? Or wait a minute, no, it was, we had a cake. Didn't we Kate? It was like a red and a blue cake. You always get this wrong.

It's like, I don't even know. It's like we've... What do you mean? First of all, like, we've done a million interviews at this point, and you've told this story, and you still get it wrong. I know because I've cut it out because you all... You get it wrong. Okay, we were told...

We didn't know what he was until he was born. Right. That's right. But I knew it was a boy, because I'm psychic. And then you had a red and blue cake. We did... cakes and we both made cakes for what we wanted him or her to be. I made a girly cake.

You made a boy cake. Yes. Can we make sure this stays in the podcast this time? So I don't ever have to bring it up again. My point, my point is, is that having a brother was a very exciting proposition for me. After dealing with Kate. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, I had this similar thing, and I actually, like, I'm, I named Tyler.

Well, I, let me, I, I pitched the name Tyler to my parents. I was like, my friend has a younger brother named Tyler, and it's just like the coolest younger brother name. Like, it's just the best, like, you just got to have a younger brother named Tyler. Like, that's the, that's the coolest thing. And I was like, please, can we just name Tyler? And they're like, well, you know, that's our decision. We'll think about it. And then I do remember they were like, guess what?

You decided to name him Tyler. And I said, yes, guess who has a brother named Tyler now, Jamie? But yeah, so I was very excited. That's a great tactic, though, for to get the older brother to love the siblings. It's like, you name it. Oh, yeah. Name the kid, and you're going to love that kid forever. That's really smart.

That's true. If a sibling lives forever in debt. I, that's, yeah. There was a story that you first pitched snuffel up against. Oh, did I? That's what I was always told. He came to us with two pitches. The first one did not go so well.

Well, that's the tactic, you see? That's like, that's the, you pitched like a way extreme idea. They're like, if you don't like that, I mean, that's my favorite, but Tyler is the same. Yeah. Then they're like, well, can't do snuffelope in case. I guess, you know. Smart. Really smart.

If you go Tyler and Steve, then they're like, oh, well, you know. Yeah, no, very smart. But Tyler's not a love you guys. They can't. So Tyler comes along. Now you're five years older. So do you remember specifically that moment? I do have a memory of, like, him coming, like, seeing him in the,

what are you called? We have one. Batsynastin. Yeah, like in the little strapped-in seat thing that you carry babies around in. I'm sure there's names for it. Moses basket? Yes, a Moses basket in the river that I found. But I do remember that, and I remember thinking like, oh, right.

They don't just come out like, hey, I'm your little brother. Like, let's climb trees. I was like, oh, they're so small. I forgot about this whole part. Now Carly is so fun and we can talk to each other and we've got to wait for this one to grow a little bit, yeah.

Oh, I know watching at least Ronnie there is, and it's got to be just, it's so instilled in our DNA and our makeup. When she sees a baby, she goes, oh, I mean, she's 19 months, she goes, oh, baby, baby, baby. And my sons, like, none of them were like that.

Wow. You know, none of them has... Yeah, she's a... Oh, my... Yeah. So what I'm asking is, you didn't have that, oh, baby instinct with Tyler. It was more like, okay, well...

I know, I mean, I was very excited. I just was like, how do we speed this long? Is there a miracle growth that we can, like, pour on? And I think, like, that carried throughout a lot of our lives. I think, like, I wanted him. I was like, come on, let's go on the roller coasters. Like, you just bear it. You just made it to the line.

Like, this is life. Welcome to it. You know, I was very excited. I wanted him to, and I think in a lot of ways, it was like, he was like, can I just, like, go at my own pace a little bit? I was like, here's these board games. And like, so here's how you play. You know, he's like, I'm two. I just learned some words.

Like, give me a break. He's like, what's monopoly? I don't like that. Like, so it's about capitalism, okay? Where did you guys grow up? Like Brentwood area? Yeah. Yeah.

But also when I was born, you guys had to move. So I imagine that was also a negative impact on your life, right? Because you had your own room. And then I came along and family had to pick up shop. Yeah. I had to leave my special wall behind. Yeah, and I'm reminded of that wall. You had a special wall?

I had a special wall. One of my parents' friends had painted all of these little animals on the wall, like a tiger and a pig and all these, like a little just mural, like just painted on the actual wall. And when I was growing up, I had this thing where if I was having a nightmare, the tiger and the giraffe and the monkey would like jump off the wall. into my nightmare and like save me from whatever monster there was so when i had to leave the we were like moving and it was also exciting and i was like so how do we get uh how do we get these guys there well no they they stay here and i was like okay so what about my nightmares i'm just going to die in all my nightmares now um so i was i was i actually i was i remember being like the first like going to sleep and being like i'm on my own in these nightmares now

I have no back in. Yeah. So wait a minute, wait, boy, this is fascinating to me. Would they actually appear in your nightmare? Like, they would come, or was this something you were imagining, or were you doing acid at the age of your life? If I was doing acid, I was being given it. I was being sprinkled into my footloops.

No, I just, that was like the image. I would be in a nightmare. I'd have some terrifying thing coming for me, and then I would just see the, the tiger just, like, leap in. And I'd be like, oh, thank you. And he'd be like, ah, you're safe. That's awesome.

Yeah. I want to, like, create that for myself now at the age of 43. I wonder what your animals would be. Yeah, I'm thinking about my son now, too, who just has a spooky black and white forest all around him. Oh, whoa. Oh, the wallpaper. It's cool wallpaper, but...

It is cool wallpaper. Yeah, but... I'm not going to help him if the monster's coming after him. It's like a silver lake nurse. nursery. Yeah, right. Is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll tell my Silver Lake's very safe. Yeah. It's nowhere near Silver Lake, but it's... Did you guys grow up in a pretty open household? Do you mean? It was very free. I mean, you obviously, you know, your dad was an actor and actually your grandfather was a performer as well.

You didn't know him, but that's probably where you get your voice from, huh? I mean... No, he had, like, a deep amazing voice. He did? And I spent my entire life trying to, like, talk at the low... I just turned my voice because my natural talking voice is like still where... It's just kind of like up here. It's still in that low-level inflammation age.

Yeah, exactly. That, right, that's the drawback of looking so young is you don't get that nice, groveling voice, you know? Exactly. Tom Waits. But just overall, was it a pretty free-spirited sort of open house? I would say, I mean, there were definitely like, you know, rules and stuff. You know, but, but yeah, I would say, like, for the most part, it was pretty open, and we had, you know, we could explore and be wild.

And, I mean, certainly some of the stories that we talk about and remember, like, there must have been a free house because we were just on the roof, you know. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, so yeah, we, I think, I think they let us, they let us sort of explore and try things. We weren't like little porcelain doll children. We got like, you know, Tyler and I would wrestle and fight all the time with love for each other. But we wounded each other. A lot of humor. A lot of humor.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, because your dad, I mean, he's a comedian. He's funny, shit, right? So was it a ball about, I mean, was he what you think he was? You know what I mean? When you see who your dad was in the spirit of your father. father, what we see on TV. Was that who he was in his house with you guys? Yeah, I would say there is, you know, a lot of his depth is communicated through his work,

which is, I think, one of the reasons he connected with a lot of people. But he really was just like so overwhelmingly compassionate towards us. And to the point that, you know, if anyone didn't have that experience with him that I ever knew of, who didn't have an amazing, amazing running with him. It was usually because he was trying to protect us. So a lot of times if we were out at dinner or at a Dodgers game or something, there would be a few times that someone would come up to him and he'd say, you know, I'm just trying to spend this afternoon with my son. And it was always sort of jarring in that sense because, you know, 99% of the time he was really all loving. And compassionate is a great word. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was, yeah.

so much heart i think there was a lot of a lot of love in our household growing up absolutely yeah did you guys ever get did you guys ever get pissed off though like when people wanted a piece of your dad meaning you're at dinner and people are interrupting and all that where it's like just get the fuck away because i i had that when i was a kid where people would come up to the dinner table and it wasn't like oh my god you know i i i i did not like it It drove me crazy, you know? You know, I think that was how our dad felt with his dad. Like, his dad would stop and just sort of sign autographs,

and he would just be like, I'm right here. So he made sure that we always felt like prioritized in those situations. So I think, at least for me, I don't know for you, Ty, but for me it's sort of swang. That's not the swung. swung swing the other way

which where I was like just be nice just do whatever they want and he was just like no I'm like I want to hang if I do if I start here

then it Oh yeah I'm the opposite I'm like who wants one who I'm like anyone wants something I want my kids to think

I'm cool as shit all right yeah yeah anyone want a picture yeah Because so my kids think that I'm like, I'm the man. Tapping on people's shoulders at the restaurant. I don't know if you're aware.

Right. You know, I am wearing a hat, so. I should have, sorry. I'm sorry. What about Tyler? Did you get up? Were you cool with all that, you know? Or did you get frustrated with that stuff at all?

Yeah, I was, I was, I got it. I think we had sort of been given a little bit of that explanation and that it was coming from his love for us and that sort of protective nature. But there were times where, you know, he had this rule for himself that if anyone asked him if he was John, then he would say no.

Like if they gave him an out, he would take it. Yeah. And he would like live by that, no matter how much they tried to change the narrative. So they'd be like, hey, are you John Ritter? And he'd be like, nope. And they'd be like, wait, no, yeah, you are. No, yeah, no.

And it would just sometimes get to a point when you're like, and I was probably so obvious because I'm sure I was turning beat red and just like staring at him like, we're lying to this person. Well, that was the other thing. A child is very awkwardly staring at you right now.

He also greatly enjoyed embarrassing us all in public. So I think like when that kind of thing would happen and we would be like, oh my God, just tell you. the truth. They know. He knows that it's you. Just like, why did you say that you quit? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, dude, that's a great joy. A great joy. And you guys will hopefully understand this as later on is embarrassing your children. I mean, I have so much fun doing that. Oh, God. It is. It's the best. I'm very excited. It is the best.

There was a lot of elevator games in our family as well. Oh, yeah. Dad would just pretend like he was this strange guy in an elevator, he'd say, pretend you don't know me. And then no matter who got in the elevator, even if they were like, oh, that's your own litter. He would continue this bit of, like, his hat to the side

and trying to figure out a corner of the elevator, and we'd be like, just stop. They know, and you're just being so weird. Well, it was so funny. I was just going to say, your dad's so goofy, you know? Yeah. He was like, and our mom is goofy, and they kind of made their,

career on television being this sort of like goofy, I mean, when your dad started three's company, what was that, 1970? Seven, I think. Late 70s? Yeah. So, you know, how many channels were there? Yeah. Not that many.

Like three. Yeah. And same with Mom on Laughan. You know, you had only a couple channels to watch television and the big shows were so huge. And, you know, that generation literally feels like they know your dad. And he was so goofy on that. And then I was just going to say, like, was he that goofy in person? He definitely was.

And physical. Yeah. I mean, he had, he was like, he had all sides of him. He was like, you know, like Tyler was saying, he definitely had like a depth and a level of empathy and compassion. And could stand up for people in a way that I still. want to be able to do, like, you know, if someone, like, makes, like, an insensitive joke or something, especially about, like, anybody in the disabled community or anything, like, even in, like, the 80s and 90s when that kind of stuff was, like, even someone saying, like,

there was a word, there was, like, spas, like, hey, dope you spas, man, like, that was going, and he just, he would, like, really hold people to the, yeah, he'd be like, you know, He would really, he'd be like, what do you mean? What's, what, what would respond? Like, people have spasms? Like, it was so, he could get so intense. But it was always, like, in a way that kind of made people, and it happened to me a couple times where I made a joke.

And he was like, think about what you just said. And I, like, my little mind was like, oh, right. I didn't even, like, I didn't realize that that could be something that someone could be very hurt by. But then there were times where he was like, The absolute most goofiest, most embarrassing dad. He introduced the element of scaring each other in the family. So scaring each other has been a huge piece of our dynamic. And it's, you know, Carly has it.

We all have a little piece of it. My three-year-old son already has it. We will go to great lengths to scare each other. And he definitely pushed those boundaries. I mean, I am so easily startled, and I have very embarrassing reactions when I am startled. But I love scaring people. And I also think it's so funny when I get scared when someone else, like, jumps. I feel like it's such a true reaction.

You cannot control what your body does. It's just so true. Melanie has, like, zero adrenaline in her body. So she, so there have been a couple times where I've, like, given up on I'm trying to scare her, because at the best reaction I've ever gotten, she'll be like, oh, dear. Or like, she'll be like, oh, that's creepy. I'm like, there's no, like, jumping or, like, high-pitched anything.

She's just like, oh, I guess I thought I was going to die. It felt scared inside, but there's no, like, it's an adrenaline spying. It's almost a great barometer to see how one would act in a moment of fear when they have to do something about it. You know, Melanie is someone, it seems like I would want on my side because she could take care of shit

if it was real. You know, I realize that I could not take care of my family. Like, if there was an intruder, just by judging on how I get scared easily, actually, I'd be like, ah, like, that's what I love about is so revealing of, like, your true inner self.

That's why I, like, I feel so bad for those people on, like, prank shows who, like, throw their... friend in front of me. I'm just like, I'm so sorry. I was scared and he's just like your pure essence was revealed in that moment. Exactly, dude. At the end of the day, my life was more precious than yours. Sorry. I'm so sorry. Did I say that out loud? A, KRA, Sakara, Sakara, Sakara. That's how I feel about Sakara.

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So it's the clear skies, and their whole thing is like, sit back, unwind, drink it in. And, you know, I mean, I have to say that kind of is what we do in Colorado. They're capturing the Colorado experience, for sure. Made to chill, you know, all about mountain cold refreshment. Get Coors Light in the new look, delivered straight to your door at get.corslight.com. Get Coors Light in the new look. Delivered straight to your door at get.corslight.com. Celebrate responsibly, kids. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. So dad's an actor, mom's an actress.

And how did they meet? They met through, I think they had a mutual. So they didn't work together. Or agent or something? No, they didn't work together. They got set up on a date. Yeah. And then they had a great first date and moved relatively quickly after that.

And then when did they divorce? Well, they got separated, I think, in 1990. And that was like the real thing. The divorce came several years later and was almost, I think I even was like, can you guys get divorced? You're not like tricking us. Right, right. You're separated. You're not living together, you know.

So how old were you guys when they actually separated? I was, I think, 10 at least when I first got the. Right. then news when they like sat us down. Yeah, I was not six. I was, I was 11, yeah. Do you guys remember that?

Yeah. Yeah. I also was it, it was like, there was one kid in my school. It was a close friend of mine whose parents were divorced. By the time I finished high school, I was like, your parents are still together? Yeah.

I know. Yeah. Like, I, they're just so, but, but at the time, it wasn't like a, yeah,

it was, it was very, surprising and painful and I and I also just I remember like when I first learned about divorce from like my friend when I was being explained why his dad lives somewhere else and all that stuff I was like you guys aren't going to get divorced right you promise and they're like yeah and so I remember like you know you're like oh we really should get divorced but we did promise yeah well to give them credit they did the only reason i remember it is because i remember seeing jason understand what was happening but they were very good about saying that this changes nothing for you guys and we this has

no reflection on you and i remember being like so what's what's the big deal it sounds like you know also because dad it wasn't like we had a traditional setup where he had a job every day nine to five and would come home he would sometimes have to travel for months at a time you know, to do a movie or something. So the idea of him not spending the night and also, you know, I was always asleep before they were going to bed anyway. So it was just like, he just won't be here at night.

And what they did end up doing is that, you know, he still spent a ton of time with us over at the house. But I remember seeing Jason's reaction and being like, oh, this is like, this is a big deal. And I just hadn't seen that. Wow. Okay, that's interesting. So you're sort of going off, of your brother, your older brother in a way

because you're six and you're sort of like, what the fuck? I don't what's going to happen? And then you're looking at someone who you love and you look up to and you're like, oh whoa, wait a minute. This is real shit, shit happening right now. Exactly. Why is my older brother pouring gasoline all over the house?

I don't know. Jason, I'm getting a whole new insight on why you were so shy as a kid. You were just like totally like scheming inside of your head all kinds of dark shit. No, I, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't, I do remember, like, I, my reaction was a little early, like, what they, I think what they said was like, we're having some troubles in

our marriage, but it was still like they were going to work on it at that point, or it wasn't like, where we thought about it and we're leaving, it was just like, there's some stuff going on and, and, and, but yeah, but. Did you know it all? I mean, like, as a 10-year-old or 11-year-old, you know, even leading up to that maybe years before, did you notice that things weren't as great? I did not.

I mean, that was like, I think, one of the things is I was just like, wait, you know, like, I mean, also I think partly like Tyler was saying, you know, he would come home. He was so much fun. So, like, I didn't notice any, like, fights. there weren't, you know, like, it wasn't, it was just sort of like... It sounds like your parents really did early on, like, a very wonderful right thing to do in a divorce and in a separation. For sure.

Okay, so what about the arts? I mean, Tyler, you're an actor. Yeah. Jason, actor. Yeah. Your sister? Musician. But also, like, a wonderful...

She did a play with me in high school. school in Crossroads. And she was so good. But she really tore herself apart after every performance. And I was like, but you, you, and she was, she like is truly also, like, she can be very shy. She can also be like wild and fun and great. And so I think it was, it was super intense for her. But she, she always also loved playing piano and music. And in recent years, she's moved way over to the music side and she's I mean I highly recommend her album that you can get on places it's like it's just so beautiful that's awesome we're all three of you really tight growing up or was there sort of was there tensions at all I mean I would say we were pretty tight I think

like I also kind of maybe like after the divorce I kind of like I had my family life and I always loved everyone but then I had like I really escaped to my friends and to just like an outside world and I don't know I have like a like a lingering guilt that maybe I was absent during periods of time like I remember kind of coming back to Carly and Tyler year like you know years later being like hey so guys how did you guys make it through that like I was so consumed with my own like process of dealing with my anger and my herd and things like that and I tried to kind of,

I think what I was really trying to do was be a certain type of role model for them so I didn't want to like give them the real stuff. And then later I was like, hey, here's some of the things. Right. So like de-compartmentalize my life, just be like, this is who I am.

And it was never like I, I don't know. I mean, I would be interested to hear with Tyler. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To me, I felt like a joke. Yeah. Yeah, were you, were you, did you look up to your brother to sort of for direction? Absolutely, yeah. And I'm surprised to hear that he let you down, bro.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I never would have guessed that you felt guilt for being absent or anything like that. To the contrary, I feel like for the first, you know, seven to nine years of my life, I was just like the weirdest. I would quit every game before losing. Like, we would have a board game going in. Right before I lost, I'd be like, yeah, you know, it's getting kind of late, and I'm the youngest one here, so I should probably... And I just remember Jason, like, you can't quit!

Just getting so upset. Well, it would literally, it wouldn't even be like you were about to lose. It would be like... It would be like, you would be ahead for most of the game, and then, like, my character would get, like, one square ahead of yours. You'd be like, I don't know about this game. Brigg. You could still win.

You could still totally win. I feel like you guys were playing Candyland. A lot of Candyland. A lot of candy land. A lot of sorry. Shoots and ladders, yeah. Just get one of those bad shoots and be like, this is not.

We got to get out of here. We played sorry a lot, Ollie. Sorry was great. Did you ever feel, though, Tyler, that your brother was not paying attention to you or sort of giving you the attention that you felt like, like you needed?

I never, not in any way other than like, I knew that I could be the annoying little brother and like bust in the room and like, you know, scream or burp or something. And they'd be like, dude, get out of here. They'd be like, all right, that was fun. That was my whole activity that I'd planned for hours. And then I would just laugh.

Or I remember there was one story where, because Jason and I would wrestle a lot. And I think it was a tactic of our dads that he took a lot of flack for. But when we would start to get into it to, you know, an argument or something, he would have us sort of fight it out. And he would say, fight until somebody gets hurt. But it wasn't punching or it was more wrestling.

Yeah. And all that. When he would say, you can fight until someone gets hurt, the purpose was not to hurt someone. The thing was like, if someone gets hurt, you have to stop right away. Right. So we would try to, like, get out our frustrations and stuff, but not actually, like, hurt the other person.

Because as soon as someone got a little bit hurt, we had to like... That's a really great tactic because you're sort of like... It's like, you know, it's taking away the instinct to want to hurt them because you're actually excited

about wrestling. Yes, yeah. Exactly. But there was one time, I guess, that we had to stop like in the middle of the fight because your friend was coming over. And so you were like,

all right, we got to stop. And I just, I guess I still had that pent up energy. I don't know what this was... Because one of the other reasons that I didn't want to hurt Tyler is because Tyler had like a Hulk

mode, like a Hulk Dominion mode, and I could see it happen and if he got hurt like if I was, you know, because he would do punching and kicking and I would do a lot of blocks and I'd do more like throws and and like maneuvering. And every once in a while I would

throw him into a wall or something like I was miscalculated and he would fall. And he would go, ah, and you cry for maybe two minutes and then he just started going and like start turning red and I'd be like oh my god and then he just come at me with all the power like the kind of like mom

lifting up a car like off their infant like just super human power and so the thing that you were remembering with my friend is that had happened my friend Alex was coming over that had happened you started like you know like building up the turning red and building up the thing

and I just went okay and I closed the door my friend I was like, I really have to go and my friend is here and you just came and he was like, hey, what do you want to do? And you came to the room

fully read full, full hope mode anger and just hunched him right in the crotch. Oh. Him, not me. I don't know why. And he was just like,

oh, hey, Tyler. Oh! And he left and he was just like, why did he do that? I was like, that was my fault. I started something. that I couldn't finish. I knew how to hurt you.

I knew by hurting him it would hurt you on an even deeper level. Right. Sorry, sorry. Right. Oh, my God. Where is Carly in all of this?

Carly? She just like... Carly was not in the wrestling that much. She just like singing in her bedroom with a door locked? Oh, no. She could like get in there

and she would do some roughing and stuff like that. Tyler and I knew how to kind of push each other's buttons to the point where we were like, all right, let's, we got to go settle this. Whereas Carly is like, she's always been like a peacemaker. So I think when it was like, she would get into some pillow fights with us. I think I remember like getting into some pretty extreme pillow fights. It's not like fun like feathers everywhere, but like when you, when you just, you swing the pillow

around until pillow becomes compacted into one end like a swinging chain mace and you can really like knock someone off their feet with it. Totally. Yeah. It's like, this is still a pillow fight.

I know you have a bloody nose but that's a pillow. Jason, I only really know you and from my memory of you in high school, you were quite shot. Yeah, for sure. And was that sort of the way that your personality type was at home?

or was that just something that sort of was out in the world? It was strange. I felt like sometimes I felt like I didn't know who I truly was because with my friends I was like wild and crazy and would do anything. And at home I was more adventurous and let's climb something and let's do something. You know, let's like, and then I just,

I don't know if it was like social anxiety or whatever or I just, and I think also maybe some of like the separation happening, right as I was becoming a teenager and right as I was becoming sort of self-aware, and then I was like, well, nothing's real then. Who knows, what's up? Like, hey, your parents

still married? Enjoy living in your fantasy world. That's so true. Get ready for a wake-up call one day. But, yeah, I think I did like retreat a little bit into myself and um and and but yeah but i i i remember like watching tyler um with his group of

friends in high school and feeling like oh wow he's having a totally different experience than than i did so were you more were you more outgoing tyler well i i never saw jason as being shy so that that is also sort of a news flash he was shy I knew there was like I knew he went through sort of the nirvana I mean it was a huge nirvana phase I think that had a huge impact

The whole school was in a nirvana phase but some took it more seriously than others That was for sure me I at one point I was like well here's what I'm going to do I'm going to make an oath to myself to only wear nirvana shirts

for my whole life every day you're deep and I did I like cycled through them And so they were like, I still have a couple that are now like spiderweb then. They're insane. Awesome.

Wow. So you just connected with that whole lifestyle. Oh, my God. That whole concept. Oh, yeah. That whole concept. I had never, it was like the music I loved, but I also, like, loved him as a person. Every interview I read, I was like, who is this guy?

He's like a rock star, but he's like, oh, I'm just like, I don't know. he's like sensitive kind of yeah exactly he kind of was turned off by a lot of the bands that i also secretly thought were gross that people were trying to get me into it camp and i was like i kind of don't like them they seem like bad people i i love the his his vision of the world and i wish we had continued to be able to see how he like through his eyes as he matured and got older. And I feel like I miss him. I feel like he was a friend that I, you know, I mean, I read every possible thing. I know. It's so crazy because we were the generation of like the kids in high school with Nirvana, you know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you, because I mean,

you think about like what kind of impact or like what, what generation of music are you? Is really the generation where you're like growing into yourself? For sure. And we were, Nirvana and all the 90s, whether it be like grunge rock or hip hop, you know, that was well, yeah, I went the other way. I mean, I was wearing size 40 jeerbos, like huge jeans and hill figure sweatshirts and a dance cruise. You were also like in college at this time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you guys are younger than I was. But I don't, I don't mean to go backwards here, but I don't know if we talked about this. Why did, and maybe I'm tripping, but why did you go so introvert. I think I

I got embarrassed at how unself aware I was. I think I was I had such a like happy childhood and I was like oh my gosh and I always had like so much enthusiasm and then it was I just was like oh

my God I'm so sorry I didn't realize that like it was this weird thing where I just I felt so unsure of myself and so I also like there was a thing in the night and you kind of we're talking about earlier, but this thing in the 90s is about, like, being real. Like, like, if someone called you a poser, that was, like, the worst thing.

So you just had to, like, you just had to do nothing. You just had to be, like, just do, just try nothing, just do absolutely nothing. That was the only safe way to be cool. Being kind of, there was, so there was some of my shyness that came from me and my uncertainty about the world. And then there was some shyness that was just, like, just so terrified of my peers. And I remember there was like a moment where I was in carpool and Hey Jude came on the radio and there's that line where Paul McCarney says, well, we know that for well, we know that it's the fool who plays it cool and makes the world a little colder. And I was like, yeah, it sucks.

I hate it. Just like be passionate, be excited about stuff. If someone is like, you're not cool, then they're, that's boring. Like, I don't know. It like kind of opened my whole thing up a little bit where I, then I swung the other way. I'm crazy. I'll do anything. So I had to, like, kind of find, like, a middle ground.

Still trying to figure it out. And I'm still trying to figure it out. But that was how I kind of, that was part of why I went so deep into, like, shyness. And it was just like, you know. Aren't these transitions, though, so fucking funny when you look back? I remember when I was, I remember my transition as well from eighth grade to ninth grade where I was wearing a rabid kings fan painting my face at school

wearing the same bomber leather jacket and sweatpants I was a fucking like I didn't give a shit about what people thought about me Oh it was but then from eighth to ninth grade Something happened you look at my school pictures My eighth grade school picture I'm like oh like smiley with a bowl cut My ninth grade school picture

I'm wearing a mustard shirt I have this flop over haircut that's like hiding one of my eyes. And I remember, I told my parents, I want all mustard and plum clothes. And I want it to be silk. And they were like, what the fuck? Why?

I'm like, don't worry about why. I want mustard and plum. That's just what I want. And a fan of Clue, the board game. Yeah. Totally. Colonel and a professor. I can't decide what I want to do.

It's so funny you said that because my ninth grade picture, my friend, my close friend, at the time, was like, hey man, don't smile. And I was like, oh. So you see, like, all my pictures, I'm like this. And then my ninth grade, I'm like this. Dude, that's exactly. I look like the world has just crushed me.

And I couldn't be. I couldn't have been more privileged. And I'm like, you know, just face. Oh, God. Tyler, what were you like in high school? I don't think I came off super shy. I think everybody is probably more self-conscious than they sometimes appear to be.

Like, I remember all of the lonely walks in the alley of being like, nobody likes me. But the truth is I had, the alley is where our school was. The truth is I always had a really solid group of friends who I'm still really close with, who I always felt had my back. And we were just a really good class at Crossroads. I feel like sometimes a year can take on a personality,

like your whole school year at a school that's small. And I feel like we were just like we took care of each other and it was a generally pretty healthy year. We felt like we had built something. And it might have even stemmed from our eighth grade graduation where we were told that. You guys are the first year to come this far without any expulsions or like any serious.

free suspensions, you should be really proud. Oliver got expelled. Didn't someone else get expelled too? So like two people? Scott? Scott Khan? Yeah. Scotty Khan.

Scotty was like a reoccurring. Earlier. He left early. Scotty Khan's like a reoccurring character on this podcast. By the time I was there, you and Scott were both like legendary. I think I asked you about what I had heard you had gotten expelled for. You were like, you know, but I, and I, you were like, that's not, but it's pretty amazing to, like, leave behind a legacy of like, do you know, like, Scott stabbed a kid with a pencil in the leg.

I got, I got caught cheating on a chemistry test and they fucking booted me. Oh, my gosh. No, but Scotty left, Scotty left earlier in like 10th grade or something, went to Beverly. Okay. All the girls loved him. So that was sort of like, you know, he was that guy. And then he, you, remember, they used to do all these, like, house dancing. I remember, like, it was really in to do, to dance, like, to hit, you know.

It was called housing. Yeah, housing. And I remember seeing, like, Scotty and Ollie housing to, like, a song. I would give, I would give anything to have video of you guys, like, house, house, you know what's so cool, though, is, like, our children will have these videos. of them being fucking idiots, you know, because we will be filming them. You know, I wish that I could see video of me. I remember Kurt saying to me, you know, and I was going out to like some underage club, like ballistics.

And he was like, he goes, you guys look like fools. And we're like, what are you talking about, Paul? What are you talking? He goes, you're going to look back at pictures of yourself and you'll get it. You'll get it. You're going to be like, we look like idiots. And I'm like, whatever. And, of course, we do.

And we're like, I cannot even believe we left the house looking like this. There was a time, this reminds me, I don't know if you remember this, and maybe it was just too subtle. But there was a time where I went to, we went as a family to Frommons. Yeah, of course. Romans is the spot. And I decided to, in the bathroom, take my pants off and turn them backwards and pull them back up. and pull them back up.

Yeah. Because that was a thing at the time. That was Chris Cross, yeah. Yeah. And so I remember walking back to the table and kind of like, just like, go with it. Just don't be like, you know, you're trying a new thing. I don't know why I decided in the bathroom at Fralman's.

It wasn't like the whole day I had. I was like in the bathroom and I was like, you're like the Jewish deli. I'm going to a stall and check it to try it up. And maybe I'll like walk out and people be like, you're like, order a blintz. You're like, order. ordering a blitz and some brisket with your, like,

I know it looks strange, but my napkin is storing on the buck of my jacket. That's so funny. Like, can I have a... Trust me, I know what I'm doing. Make it a filth a fish and a pound of locks. Yeah. So, you know, make that a half pint of Monsabal. Exactly.

There's like a whole, I could do, we could do a whole sketch on it. What about you guys, your relationship actually through high school, you weren't together, right? I mean, was there a split? You know what I mean? Like, you guys were homies, right? Like, in the beginning, you were, there was a strong bond. I mean, I, yeah, I think we were, you were always homies. But, yeah, there was, like, I graduated before Tyler got in ninth grade.

Yeah, I think that's how that. So I was more in school with Carly And Carly went to high school with both of us basically But Tyler was in the middle school When I was there, right? Yeah, I guess I was in seventh grade when you graduated, yeah Oh yeah, yeah And were you cool, were you the cool older brother

Who would include the younger brother Or were you like, let me just separate these two worlds, you know? I think Would you venture over to the middle school That was three steps away? I don't think you did. I mean, yeah, no. I know you did for Carly.

I know you really were like a protective force for Carly in high school. All right. And really stepped up the big bro game. But I don't know in middle school. I know you did perform at our senior day, like our senior, what is that? Oh, right. Senior night or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like the night that everybody you're like graduating high school. school everybody's drinking and you know maybe some other things and the last thing you expect is for the bus to pull up and your entire family to be there waiting for you jason and mom and dad and jason you performed like this incredible sketch comedy it was like with eric edelstein and i think simon you remember i remember i was just having like a three-hour panic attack that whole night but then it was like everybody thought it was the coolest thing in the world and then you know Everyone's like, your brother's the funniest guy ever. It's so cool.

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. But I don't know. In middle school, I think that's just too big of an age difference. Yeah. Just like not a whole lot to. But at home, we would like, you know, we played a lot of video games together. We would go outside.

We would play around. And then it was sort of like when we had our friends over, it was kind of like, you did your thing. Now it's friend time. Yeah. When did you start to engage in the performing arts, Jason? And then Tyler, what made you want to get into it as well? Jay, you want to start first?

Sure, yeah. So I really wanted to do it when I was like a little kid. And then when I turned that corner and got super shy, I grew my hair out of it. I was like, nobody look at me. I'll just play bass. And I'll just join the jazz band and I'll do music and I'll just be in the corner. And then it was actually like DeVita Will's. Herwin, she asked me to audition for, like, the fundraiser for Crossroads, and I forgot to,

and she gave me a tiny, tiny little part anyway, because I had worked, when I was seven, I did an upper school production of Pippen when I was, like, in the elementary school, and she remembered me from there, and she's like, hey, you should, you know, come and join. And from that little fundraiser, I remembered, like, how much fun I had doing it and how much I actually loved it, and from that point on, I just was like, okay, I think I, I want to do this. So, Ty, how did you sort of... Well, I guess my, how it started for me was in 10th grade, when everybody started getting their driver's license, jackass came out, and that became like our religion.

And so the, you know, the warning at the beginning of the show where they're like, please don't tribe these are professionals yeah i felt like that was for us we did all of that stuff and we had just like i didn't have a cell phone i don't think until i was maybe 17 um but a couple of my friends had you know they could bring out like their big camera and so we would film all this stuff and then just watch it like amongst ourselves and laugh um but i think as a result of that one of my friends thought it would be funny to prank me and sign me up sort of like how davida recommended you for the play, this friend of mine, Clay in high school, who was new to Crossroads that year,

just thought it would be funny to write my name in for an ideal husband. And the director came and saw, she was like, hey, you know, she knew I played baseball for Crossroads, and she was like, you know, I know you're busy with baseball, but I'm so excited that you're, you know, embracing the theater and that you want to be a part of this play. And I was just like, yeah, okay.

I had no idea. I didn't find out that he had done it until we were deep in, rehearsals and I was just going along like I don't know if she just did some reverse psychology on me but I have so much fun doing that play and it stuck with me but still this was always Jason and dad and Tex and mom and you know it was their sort of territory and it just felt like it would be sort of an overt saturation uh if I were to go in and and I don't know I guess my rebellious, I wouldn't say it was rebellious, but I just, I was just sort of floating around, bouncing off of different ideas. And, uh, and I always had friends who were involved. So my roommate

for three years in college, uh, was in film was studying film the whole time. So we made a bunch of student films. And I was always, you know, in those. But it was just sort of a fun side hobby. And then it wasn't until, um, I, I moved to Argentina after. college where I met my wife and she acted in musical theater and she convinced me to get an agent to do commercial work. I was teaching by the time I did this I was teaching at a middle school

but it was only about half of the day and she was like you know she had been going out for commercials while she was on break. In Argentina. In Argentina she was like I think you could work as an actor in Argentina and I would go and audition in Spanish and at the time my Spanish was horrible and I would just come out with these ridiculously self-deprecating stories, and that became, like, part of my socializing

in Argentina. People would be like, what did you do yesterday? And I was like, so I guess I accidentally wrote down that I could break dance, and I had to break dance and sing in Spanish, two things I could not do. But I did. I booked a couple of courses. I started, like, working and getting good feedback. And, yeah, Jason did have a role. I think when I decided to, so I was in Argentina, for three years. And I decided to move back to L.A. and, you know, go full force in the acting world. And Jason, I don't know if you remember, but we had a really long, kind of serious talk about it. And you were just 100% supportive and 100% sure that it was, you know, that it was going to work out, that it's a hard road. And it's not easy, but that you, like, thought that I

had what it took and that it was the right path. I mean, it was like everything you could want to hear from your older brother who's a role model and that's awesome i just you know i've always looked up to you as a brother but as an actor it was it was everything i i needed to hear um and our and our sister carly was a huge factor in that as well because before i moved back to los angeles to do it she she had been doing some marie condo at our mom's house this is before marie condo was around but she was doing like just spring cleaning at the house and i remember we were talking and she was like, you know, I came across this letter that was a letter that I had written to my future self. And she was like, and it said, don't open. Like, this is for when you're, you know, like,

in your 40s or whatever. And she was like, so of course I opened it and I read it and I just couldn't believe. She started telling me all these things I had written when I was like in ninth grade or whatever. But she was like, you started talking about how if baseball didn't work out that you wanted to be an actor. And she was like, I never knew that about you. And I remember her telling me that and being like, oh my God, I did. That is a part of me. And that was maybe before I started feeling like there maybe wasn't room or that it wasn't my path. And so I remember that being a little green light. I feel like maybe I subconsciously just needed some green lights. Well, when you said there wasn't any room or you felt like there wasn't any room, like what is that

feeling? You know what I mean? Because that's not really a rational thought. It's more of an insecurity. It's definitely an insecurity. But, Jason had been acting since, you know, he did his first play at Crossroads when he was in first grade. You know, like it was just always in his bones and he was always so great and worked so hard and went to school for it.

And I just, that was like, in my mind, that's what you had to do to be a working actor. And so it was just like, well, that ship sailed. And then, you know, and then you sort of start to hear that, you know, I think I was 20, I was 25 when I moved back. and I just had my mindset I was like I'm just going to get into a couple different studios

and just go every day and just see if I can catch up and you know Did you ever feel the pressure? I know Kate's going to roll our eyes because I always talk about this shit when we deal with two actors you know one who is perceivably more successful than the other because essentially I'm a successful actor

but when you compare myself to my family you know that's just the reality of it right Is there anything in you that is sort of, you know... Oliver's the least successful actor in the family. Right. That's a better way of looking at it. Is there a part of you that feels black sheepish or that needs to like sort of do something to prove yourself

even though it may not be rational? And you know that it's coming from a, you know, not the greatest place, but is that ever a part of your feeling? I imagine it's deep in there. But I also, I am so... lucky that I have a hard time letting those thoughts override anything else, just in the sense of like, and it's even true in grade school, like the number of times I got into a class and it was like, oh my gosh, you're Jason and Carly's younger brother? And I would see that reaction and be like,

this is going to be a nice year for me. But anyway, just going back to it, Tyler, like, so, you know, you felt lucky to have your older siblings, but has there, but no feelings of sort of that I want to become something. I want to be what they are or, you know what I mean? Like any of that? Yeah. You know, I think as far as like fame goes that, I think we saw our, as we talked about at the very beginning, we saw our dad sort of trying to duck out of that for so much

of our lives that it, fame in itself never really called to me in that way. I mean, it freaks me out more than anything, the idea of not having any privacy. So that doesn't necessarily call to me. Being successful, obviously does, and wanting to be working and, like, the number of conversations you have where it's like, so what are you doing now? And you just have nothing. It's a horrible feeling. And I remember, like, when I was expecting my son, I was having my first child and I didn't have a job lined up. And I was like, this for me isn't like, it's such a huge.

integral part to being a dad. I feel like, I have to have something. And I remember talking to our mom about it. And she was like, you know, there are a lot of those things that you have wrapped up in your head that are not true, you know? You don't have to have a job lined up to be a good dad. And, you know, at that point, I was like spiraling a little bit. I remember being like, I can't fix anything either in the kitchen. She was like, you think your dad can fix a toilet? He couldn't do jack squat, you know. But I definitely have, I think I just, you know, the fear would be to not be working, but I don't, I don't truly find myself, you know, I don't find myself measuring myself up against Jason or dad or anything,

all the while knowing that if anything, it's helped me get as far as I am. So there's always a sense of gratitude. But I also got a show pretty early on. I remember hearing from a couple of producers when I first got to L.A., they were like, you're not going to work for five years. Just be prepared. I actually, I think I was one of the people who said. I was like, listen, bro, I'm so into this.

I'm so excited for you. I just want to warn you, there's a lot of rejection. It's a lot of pain. You've seen me struggle through these things. And then he's like, oh, I got a pilot. I was like, look, they don't always get picked up. They's like, oh, I got picked up. And I was like, well, you can get recast.

Any number of things. And I thought, and I was like, I'll do this. And I think, you know, I, I think there's also an element. I've talked to, like, a bunch of people. There's, there's, there's, there's, there's so many different things that come that, like, irrational spheres. There's also, I think, I think when Tyler and I were having that original conversation,

one of the things that I was thinking was like, if, if, if he were to just, like, zoom way ahead of me, like how like I just want him to know that I would be so excited about that and comfortable with that and not that's how I look at it like ahead or but whatever like sometimes that can be a challenging thing too

where like you know I know people who are artists, musicians, actors who have become more successful than their parents were and it's complicated for them like it's and and so I think it's like to just be like You know, we all have our own journeys.

And it is weird when there's, like, a similar journey or a relative father or a brother, you know. And, like, I remember going into rooms, like, you know, for sitcoms, especially, and then be like, before you start, just want to tell you, your dad would open his mouth and we would all be rolling on the front of giving us. God. I'm like, oh, well, first of all, that sounds awful. Who cleaned it up? they're like and action yeah yeah exactly and I'd be like

I'm not going to measure up I'm not going to measure up so so you know it's like you know it's a strange thing to have to deal with but I think the more

that you can just like and I think that the conversation that Tyler and I had at that time was just like the sooner you can let that stuff go like the better because I tanked

only recently have I started been able to like work in some comedy stuff because I just tanked all those auditions because my hands would start shaking and I wouldn't be able to be like free I just would be like

here's my wild character you know like just like humiliate myself and then leave and imagine that that casting director for years is like I remember how sad that was when that guy came in and how embarrassing for him

and how much shame he brought to his family none of us pooped our pants Not one of us. Well, my underwear is clean, so I guess we'll call you. So funny, dude. It's so true. Oh, God. Stupid shit that you put in your mind.

Well, it's also, you know what must be really interesting. I'm looking at your guys' faces and Jason. You know, you would think that you look so much like your dad. But then you see Tyler, and Tyler actually looks like a lot like your dad, you know? Yeah. So it must be interesting for like any casting director when they've kind of been in, you're saying casting, like you've been in there. They're like, oh, God, he looks so much like this father.

Then all of a sudden, like five years later comes, you know, the younger brother. And they're like, oh, my God. Right. Yeah. I did have that experience in one of my very first auditions. And I've heard a lot of Jason's stories. And he had braced me a little bit that can be startling or it can throw you off your game a little bit. but I remember specifically walking into one room

and she was like okay and oh my gosh oh I thought I'm sorry I thought your dad just walked in the room oh my god oh my god and I was just like oh I can leave or how do we remedy this and of course yeah I get comedy you know so I have heard that a good amount yeah the other the other thing that can be intense

is like that so like you know with his passing people you know, that shared tragedy thing that we were talking about before, you know, you move on, you have this hole in your heart and you move on and you're having an okay time in your life and you're not necessarily thinking about it. And then sometimes you go into a casting room and they're just like grab your arm and their eyes well up and they're just like, oh my God, I just, right now, right now we're doing this. Are you okay? Can I, I'll hug you. Yeah, isn't that interesting?

You're like, this is my dad and I'm, you know. Let me help you mourn him. How do you guys deal with that, though? You know, because it's so true, there are moments, I mean, it probably continues on to this day where it's just that it's so fucking constant, you know, and you have to be cordial, I guess, or is it ever just like, you guys, we're good, we're good, we're good. I kind of want to rewind to this because you guys were so. so young like so you're 23 your career's just starting jason and you're just graduating high school

and your dad i mean it was sudden could you with as much as you feel comfortable sort of take us through what that was like for you guys and then maybe even pairing it with sort of the theme of this show you know it's like when your siblings you carly and and Tyler the boys it's like how does how do you come together in that moment as well you know well you You had just had a trip with him where you... He had just dropped me off at college for my first freshman semester. And so we had spent that week exploring Philly and going to games and just taking me around. And it was sort of this...

You know, I think one thing that probably we all did in a certain respect... I mean, I even remember, like, the next day, already starting to look for reason and meaning and I think as you do and whether it's sudden loss or over a period of time. But I remember feeling like, you know, like I'm starting school. Jason is on this like an incredible

like a spiritual show. Carly's graduating school. Noah at the time was five and that was there was just it was just full devastation. And I definitely put a lot of I think my own grief on worrying for him. But I do think that there was a lot

of like maybe the universe, know, it was his time and, and, like, trying to find some solace in, like, this is how it was supposed to be, and we had this incredible moment, and then it was a send-off, and now I'm like, and that lasts you for as long as you need it, and then you come to terms with, you know, either you stick with that, or you, you know, you gradually sort of dig away at it and get to other truths and make peace with that, as you may. But the one thing, I will say before I let Jay go is I remember like one of the feelings was I'll never feel like I'll never laugh again like I'll never and not because he was such a source of laughter but just because

the pain was was so great and I don't even really remember what you said but I remember we had all gotten back to Los Angeles from our corners and you you said some you made some joke about it I I mean, about the situation and how fucked up it was. And we all, it was like a hysterical laughter. And I remember in that moment being like, it's going to be okay. We're going to get through this and we're going to laugh. And I think in that moment, also Jason like assumed the role of, you know, kind of the man of the family. And, you know, I at least definitely started following that lead and tried to introduce humor where I could.

I think I way overreach. Like I remember I remember with my friends, the first time all our friends came over to sort of be together. I was just like trying to make everybody laugh and I remember two people like breaking down and having to run out.

Being like, whoa, tough crowd. But like really trying to bury that down. Just because it had worked when Jason did it for me, I thought maybe I could help other people out. Right. Right. Oh, man.

Yeah, it was, yeah, it was, it's weird. because one of the first things that happens is you're like, what was the last thing? What was the last thing I, you know, and then, like, for me, he had gotten back from that trip. Like, earlier in the week, we had gone to see the medallion, which was the movie with Jackie Chan and Claire Forlani, I believe.

He went back, we went back home. He gave me, like, a little candle that I still have. And then, yeah, it was really sudden. You know, I just got a call, and I, my mom and I went to the hospital, and then it all went down, and we found out that he didn't make it, which seemed like impossible. It just seemed like, what in the world? How did this happen? And then the worst part was then having to call Carly and Tyler and tell them. Oh, so you were the one you told them.

You told your stuff. The way that it worked was my, my mom called. No, I called. I had to break the news and then I passed the phone to my mom who was making travel arrangements for them to come back because they were both had just been dropped off

at college by mom and dad. So, yeah. And I mean, it's just like it's the worst news you could ever give to someone in the middle of the night. How do you even process something like that? Does something take over that is sort of unworldly, in a sense, just a survival instinct? There are weird things that happen that feel otherworldly.

Because it feels like you're, you know, like in the upside down from stranger things or something. You're just like, I do not recognize any of this. And everything seems offensive to you. Like the sun going down, you're like, oh, really? Just keep on doing your life. Like, you just rise and set every day. Like, it's all normal. but but then like that whole month the sunsets were like so beautiful

it was like I just was like making up my own thing and I was like oh that's so cool they like they let dad paint the sunsets this month I don't know if that's probably not how it works but like you know you you like hold on to these things and then and then you look for you talk to other people people have different ways of dealing with tragedy and people give you advice and you're like that doesn't quite work for me or this works And the thing that really worked for me was, or the first, like, rock that I kind of held on to was what Tyler was sort of talking about,

this sort of perspective-shifting idea for me of, instead of what it felt like and what it is in a lot of ways, which was, like, reading your favorite book and then getting to a certain point in the last six chapters were ripped out. And you're like, what? And trying to sort of look. at it as like, this is the whole story now. This was the book, actually. There's no use like trying to think about those chapters that we won't get to read. Now, like, you have to find

the beauty in the chapters that you have. And it was this quote that I, that I heard around the time, which was a Kierfegard quote, I think, is the most painful state of being is remembering the future, particularly one you can never have. I was like, oh that's all i've been doing i keep on remembering the future i keep on going oh i remember that i was planning on doing this i wanted to do this i wanted you know like and and it's a it's sort of it's like this way of self- torture even though it feels like kind of nice because you're imagining those things you're and um yeah so like it was i mean it was just it was such chaos and and and like humor helps sometimes but then you have to remember

like where other people are in it and all the stuff. Actually, earlier in this podcast, when you were saying, oh, for divorce, like, you got to be like, oh, dad's going away for two weeks. I want to be like, that's what we did with my dad's pasting. And I like, I stopped myself. I'm not, we're not doing. We're not hearing of wrong. Well, that's like, actually he's got, yeah, he should be.

Well, he just got to late. Well, it's like, Tyler, Tyler, just, he was all, he was too soon with his own father, with his friends. And all of his friends were like, Tyler, that's fucking offensive, too. Yeah, yeah. There's a line, man. Yeah, exactly. Oh, but what about the three of you coming together?

I mean, when you all first saw each other, was it, would it feel good in the sense that you could be together and, you know, or. Ty, you saw Carly before you saw us. Yeah. that that like is burned into my brain forever seeing her face was like confirmation of everything it was like the nightmare is real yeah it was the nightmare is real and it's also carly who we both just love so deeply and who's so uh just so open and vulnerable and loving and trusting and had a view was so so close with that as we all were but you know she had her own

very just you know connection to him that was unique and so my heart like just shattered even more for her and recognizing that it was real and then we were in the airport waiting for our plane and it was on the news playing above us

and it was just yeah so there was a lot of yeah a lot of weird having to kind of dance around it because like Jason was saying every time you would need to take a break from it like I pretty quickly went back to school. I felt like I had to just screw my head back on and get distracted.

But I would also see, I felt like I was Pepe Lapeue walking through campus because I could see people laughing and recognize me and they had heard that I was at the school and like get really somber, you know, because I was walking by and not want to laugh. And I was like, oh my God, I'm like this walking wake of depression, which was also, I'm sure I invented some of it in my own mind, but I don't know what I would have done with those kinds of experiences or, you know, a lot of the, I don't think I had an appreciation for his impact. I don't think I had ever considered what his presence felt like for so many people. And it took years and years and years before I could put myself in one of those people's shoes who would come up to me

and say, that was so hard for me. You know, and I'd be like, are you out of your, the only reason I can, I can stay sane in this moment is because I know I'm about to call Jason and Carly and be like, you won't believe what this person. And then as I matured and I like really was more comfortable engaging that conversation and saying like, oh, well, you know, why do you think that was? Or yeah, like, you know, just hearing it out. I met a lot of people who learned English from watching him. They were like he, I could understand him and he was fun and light and people who felt. like they grew to love our country because of, you know, there were like these real life-changing impacts that he had. And I, it was just another facet that I got to sort of find another angle of connection to him. I got to experience him. And what a luxury that is to get to hear so many stories about him through other people. And now being an actor in L.A., every job I have, there's at least one person who has a story with him. And they're all you know, if he wasn't with the kids, he never turned anyone away is what I've kind of come to

understand. I don't know if you've learned that too, Jay, but every time someone tells me a story where they, like, he gave up a seed on the plane or, you know, he like gave them his book that he had just finished or these things that I'm like, oh, that was not how he was when we were out in public. I'm starting to build this other angle of him, which is a huge luxury and definitely is healing and helpful. There was, well, two things. One thing is, what's a strange sort of thing is that, like, you know, there's a lot of parallels between the way he grew up and the way we grew up and his dad and stuff.

And his dad also died young. And there was a story that, like, made us laugh and he made us laugh throughout our whole childhood where his dad had passed. He went back to work. There was a guy who was, like, sort of a Mr. Cool guy who went into him and I heard about your dad. Condoles. He's like, oh. just didn't have time to say the whole word, I'm just on the move.

And that made us laugh forever. And there was a time where I was with Melanie and we were out at a bar or at a restaurant or something and this woman who's near on the corner, she turned around. She went, oh my God, I just realized who you are. I, like, I loved your dad. I miss him so much.

And she went, RIP. And then she turned around. Oh, my God. And Melanie was like shocked, silent. And to her, back, I went to her back. I just went, well, first of all, thank you for, you know, bringing it up, you know, along with my closest friends, I'm too scared to bring up something so I don't even think

Melanie and I had really talked about it, but like, you know, it's just like, sometimes people's like, this thing, like, RIP and then, like, not even, like, looking to see my reaction. It's so hilarious to us, but, um. Oh, God. But, yeah, I actually, I do remember, I don't even know if I told you this guy, but, like, There's one story that I heard about dad that, like, was not good. This guy comes to me, and then he was like, hey, I know your dad.

And I was like, oh, yeah? I was like, the first time I had, like, a weird energy. Yeah, I knew you, dad. Yeah, he got me fired from a show. He was like, what? He was like, yeah. He got me fired because I was too handsome. I was like, are you sure it didn't have anything to do with the fact that you're clearly

arranging outside? Like, coming up to me and telling me that my dad, like, I just was like, I'm, I don't think this is a story. Oh, my God, that's an amazing story. The idea that, like, everything that I know about my dad, like, the fact that he'd be like, listen, this guy's two-handsful, he's got a dog. I'm just like, what that guy had to do in his brain to be like, I probably got fired because of all this. Imagine the scene your dad's like, can someone get the AD? Can someone find a baby? Hey, listen, this guy's got to go.

I can't concentrate. I'm just falling in love every minute I stare at his beautiful face. This guy's way too handsome. It was so funny because, like, I've never heard, I've never seen anybody come up to me with that kind of energy about my dad. And so at first I was like wildly thrown off. And then I was like, oh, no, no, okay. Now I get it.

I think this is your problem. Yeah. How do you even respond to something like that? You're like, I was like, I don't think he would have, I don't, I don't think he ever really exercised that power. Oh, God. Wow. It's so disconnected and hilarious.

Was there a moment when you guys like felt like, okay, this, we're good. You know, we're going to get through it. We're going to get through it. You knew that, but it was like you found the other side in a way. I think, you know, I think. like the thing like that really like it makes you sort of tighten all the

ropes on the raft something like that's a terrible metaphor but I love it I'm going to use it I'm like what ropes do you tighten what kind of raft is it everything I know about raft tells me there's ropes and sometimes they get loose

but the raft doesn't sing are we talking it's just a little max so sad I feel like we're in the Tom Sawyer type of raft. It's sort of what it is. It's an old school raft. It's like, yeah. It's like, old school. Yeah, not like a inflatable.

No, no, no, right, right. Those are, those ropes are just to hold on. Yeah, I think, I think, you know, I think it's like a thing where you start to realize that, you know, it's never going to be the same. It's never going to be okay. But that the people around you will be there in the. those moments that it like just knocks you out again because like it's so bizarre it's so bizarre um like well i don't know like last this last year um i was watching queer eye and there was an episode where this guy um was coming out to his stepmom his dad had passed away it wasn't you know

there's nothing like aside from the father passing away there's nothing like my story and and yet like I felt like sort of weird. Like I felt like I had taken vitamins and not, like I felt like lightheaded. I was like, what is going on? And then I was like doing the dishes. And then all of a sudden just like over the dishwasher, I was just like, oh. That's like, that's right. And it's just, I was like, oh my God.

I kind of thought I had like gotten over this. But it's just still there like waiting for those moments that something comes up. And it's just like still all there. But my brother is here. are my sisters here, both of my brothers, my mom, you know, like my family at home, my friends, like there are the people, I think that's what you start to really take stock of is everyone who's still here and everyone who, you know, will be there for you in those moments. The healing process, I think, takes maybe forever.

And it is. It's like those roadblocks and also those like incredibly happening. They're both sort of the ripe moments for that stuff to be like, are you so happy? Don't you wish someone could see you like that? Because again, like we grew up. Dad talked to us all the time. Your grandfather would have loved you guys.

We never got to meet him, but he would have loved you guys. My sister has two kids and Tyler has two and I have one. But how lucky, but how lucky. are you and how lucky are your kids that they get to see their grandfather that we grew up in a business and he was famous and an actor and he did however many hundreds of episodes of of uh you know three's company and then everything else he's done they get to experience him you know and while it's not in person that is a deep part of his personality you know i mean we watch we watch westerns with uh our grandfather and grandmother I have a couple vinyl records of texts where I have a children's record where he's singing children's songs that my son loves.

Wow. And I have another record where he is giving a backstory to every song. So there are days where we're sitting around and he's hearing his, you know, great-grandfather tell him stories. And that just blows my mind. But, yeah, like you said, it's a side of them. The loss is just, you know. It's always going to be there. But I do think in those moments that it hits you,

there is like a, when you get through the major waves of grief where it's hard to navigate, it has sort of that centering to it. Where I think like, oh, man, we saw, so our dad was like a diehard Beatles fan. That was like his, you know, his higher power. And Dodgers. It was like, for me, our big connection was baseball.

and like Beatles was his gift. Like he could tell us about every song where it all came from. And my wife and I this last year saw Paul McCartney at Dodger Stadium when Ringo Star came out and they joined up together. And it was like every emotion you could feel.

I just felt for there was a whole row of kids in front of us and they were just like, who is this grown man behind us? Crying and like screaming out to Paul from the nose blades. When Paul's like, Who has tried to learn how to play Blackbird on guitar? And the three kids were like, we all have.

And I was like, me, Paul. But like what, it was as close to a, like, religious awake. I'm not very religious. I don't have, you know, I can't say I've had many experiences like that. But I try to think in that moment what this would have been like. If then afterwards, I called my dad and was like, Oh my God, that was amazing. I saw Paul with Doug.

And it would be one experience. The experience I had was, you know, bigger than anything I could describe, you know. So there is, you just start feeling these other levels of gratitude and joy, you know, like the... Do you ever feel him? I do. So a lot of people had been telling me to brace myself for when Benjamin was born. And I did. I think I actually did.

I was like, oh, this is great. Like, I'm feeling really good with my son and, like, my dad would have been great, but I hadn't had that moment for like a couple months. And, you know, I was talking to my wife, Lelu, about it. And she had some really great idea. She was like, you know, maybe the idea of a father-son relationship has just always been tragic for you. And now you're getting to redefine it as the father. And maybe that's like a healthy. And I think she's right.

I think I was experiencing that. And then there was just one random night, you know, and this is after months. and months of putting him down. And I just felt like he was in the room. And it was maybe for two seconds that I was like, oh, my God, he's here. And then it was the realization that either he was or he wasn't.

It's almost too much to bear that he's not able to meet these children that he would have loved so much. Oh, my God. Yeah. But yeah, that was a moment. I have a lot of dreams. You know, there was a lot of dissecting dreams.

Oh, really? Oh, I love that. I love that. lot of stuff that you can't kind of like prove either way or like have a hunch. There are things that like there isn't a truth and a non-truth and things like that. But there are other things like this is sort of gray area where it's like an idea or a frame of mind or a way to look at something and perspective shift. And you can just sort of, I've always been like, well, what way makes me feel better?

What way? Like if I look at the world and I'm like, oh, everything's been decided beforehand or we have free will and we can do, we can change our destiny and things like that. I don't know which way is the real way if there is one, but one certainly makes me feel super depressed, and one makes me feel like, way better. I want to work hard and try hard and change things.

And so I think, like, a lot of things like that, and I, you know, I love every time I have a dream about him. I mean, they're usually, like, super strange. and usually in them I'm just like trying not to cry I'm like I'm wasting time by crying and I'm like and he's like what is what are you okay I'm like yeah it's just it's hard to explain to you but I don't know how much time you have

I just like I'm just trying to like talk to you and it's super bizarre but then like every once in a while anytime I see something sort of absurd that like makes me laugh that'll be, I'm like, oh, I felt like you orchestrated that. So fucking great. What a great legacy to leave for you guys. The absurdity, because, I mean, I love the absurd.

It's just so fun. And, you know, I honestly try to instill the absurd into my kids by just being, you know. Yeah. And if you can look at the absurd and think of your dad, I mean, that's a great fucking gift, I think. And I love what you said, Jay, about the book. I'd never thought about that sort of. analogy and that is very comforting even to me who hasn't lost a parent but the idea that we're sort of futureizing when there is no reason to i mean yeah this is just the end of the book and that's

okay you know what i mean like yeah this is just what it was there there is nothing else you know what i mean like that's a that's a that's an interesting concept and one that if you can sort of grasp i can i can see how that can be comforting in a way yeah it's i mean it's because there's a part of you just like, well, I still want to see those chappers out. But, like, the more you can be like, I'm not going to see those junkers. I can't.

I would love to. There are none. They have not even been written. Exactly. Exactly. So that's the ending. It was unsatisfying to you when you got to it. But now, reread the book in your mind and go,

oh, my God, I got that moment. And some people don't get that moment. And, you know, like, I got this day and this week and, you know, whatever it is. It's, you know. Well, thank you guys for talking about that. You know, I know. Yeah, yeah. It's so important.

And I think, too, you know, so many people lose their parents, young and siblings, young, and, you know, people in their life. And I think when people talk about their experience with something that is very tragic, that it helps so many people feel better about because a lot of people, you know, it says a lot about your parents that you're able to sort of like lean on each other and like you said, like be able to look into the future. Your future is bright to know that life goes on and that your dad would want you to move on. Like clearly you know that. I think it's a nice thing for people to just feel like their experience is relatable to others.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, let's do the speed round. Ready? Okay, one word to describe the other. I would say, and I know I said this with dad, but I would say depth also. I think you can go so deep, as you guys have heard, with Jason on any topic, and he goes right there with you. So I would say a depth, like a, I'm going to make it too, but like a creative depth. I'm going to hyphenate lionhearted.

Tyler has one of the biggest hearts I've ever seen I feel like he's who I am pretending to be out in the world That's awesome Who's more athletic But Jason's faster So it depends on your definition

Who's more competitive That's a tough one I think maybe Tyler I think maybe Tyler although I also get extreme I think you play super competitive, but I think Jason's just happier if everybody's engaged in having a good time. But I think I hate losing more than Jason hates losing.

Who's funnier? Jason. I've died. For sure. Okay. Yeah. I got like 80% of my sense of humor is like straight from Jason. So like we were talking about tri-lams.

I mean, how many movies that you pass down to me that, like, and you're just, I mean, he is literally the funniest person I know. That's true. That's very good. Thank you, sir. Who, but who can deliver the better punchline? Jason. I don't know.

For sure. I can't stop smiling when I'm trying to tell a joke. I give it away, like, before I even start setting it up, I'll start giving it away. That's funny. No poker. face. Who has more stage fright? Who gets more nervous, even on sets or between, or, you know?

I don't know. I actually, I don't know if I've ever asked you about that time. I know I get it. Do you get nervous? I get so nervous, yeah. But I've learned to be like, okay, that's like my little friend because I would start to get nervous if I was just like, I'm going to be brilliant. I feel like the nervousness drives me to, like, care a little bit more.

I love that feeling before you get out on a stage. Yeah, it's like a love-hate thing. I'm like, oh, my God. There's always a part that's like, there's the exit door. You could just run. You could just run and never stop. Yeah, totally.

I would imagine I do because I'm newer to the game. And I definitely, before going on stage every time, I'm like, oh my God, I don't think I know any of the lines. And then I'm like, wait, no, I think I do. Oh, there they are. Okay, we're good. But, like, there's always a moment where it's like, this is going to be horrible. Yeah.

But I've learned to have a friendly relationship with that, with those bad thoughts. Probably equal. Who has better taste in music? Jason. I would say Tyler, for sure. No, what? Yeah, Tyler, dude, I will obsess about one band for, Melanie is always like, this band. I'm like, who?

And she's like, oh, right, because in the 90s, you only listen to Nirvana. I'm like slowly learning that there's other bands beyond like Nirvana, the Pixies, Bright Eyes, Bill to Spill. All bands that I love because you pass them down to me. I think that's true. I probably have listened to a wider array, but your knowledge of music and you were just more musical as well. Like you played instruments and you're deeper in the world.

But I do listen to a lot of music. How about who? What decade do you think your brother would thrive most in? Like, for each other? Oh, boy. 1890. I think he would have been an incredible, his mustache last week would have been.

You had an amazing mustache. You should not have let that go. That's a great question. I think the 2020s. Oh, really? He's a current boy. Wow. Yeah, he's just getting better and better.

And then 2030 is the downward spiral. I can see you rocking the 70s. You would have been on the front lines for the right causes. And with the long hair, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. There's a little about the 70s that makes me uncomfortable. Who cries easier? I might, I mean, I cry pretty easy.

I almost cried I got pretty close on this very podcast So you win this one I went this job Yeah Who got better grades growing up Jason

I got pretty good Yeah Jason was a solid student Okay Who calls the other more Tyler I call Well we text We're yeah I feel like we

Yeah we're more of a texting We're text and then we meet up Now we're doing a little more Zoom it's a lot of like you up you want to play this game let's do it have a kid to sleep yeah we're all on the headset okay who's the better dancer tyler for sure hands down no question i may have helped and inspire the chaos the pure chaos and joy of dancing without moves but then tyler took that and added some serious moves who's your first celebrity crush Drew Barrymore

Oh yeah That was a big one for you That was a big one for me Yeah Like but from like When I was like Eight and I saw Or no like five

And I saw E.T And I was like who This is my We're destined Right Oh man Yeah If we go back to like being

Little kids Yeah Jessica Rabbit was a bit But I think Selma Hayek Was my first real Human She was my first human

Oh Tyler Tyler there. Selma Hyac is like... And desperado, remember that? That's what it was. I think it was desperado. I was like, well, it's it. She doesn't know it yet, but we're pretty much together.

Wow. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Cindy Lopper was a close second one. Interesting. She's like your mom's age. Yeah, I actually had a dream where we were married.

And in my dream, I was 20, and she was the 90. Like, the age difference had... It was, like, not what it really, like, it would be totally fine now. Like, I, but in my 10-year-old mind, I was like, why did I make this promise to myself and why did the universe grant this wish? I didn't think this through. It's still would have been awesome.

I like, I like this one. If you were casting someone as your brother, who would it be? Oh, whoa. Paul Rudd? It's just like so. Paul Rudd. It's actually really good. That's like he says that.

Maybe Dax Jeopard. Oh, that's really cool. Interesting. I love Dax. I like this one. Who makes the best first impression? I think Tyler makes the best first impression. I would guess you do.

No, you definitely do. I can sometimes rub people in like a... And I've been learning this recently. I'm like... That I can sometimes come off as... like a little bit of a douchebag I think is like yeah it really sucks

I feel like Jay like is the one that all the parents love like oh my god Jason's such a great boy yeah you know he's a kid like he's so sweet he's just so so sweet yeah I had to take an improv class and I had to fill in in another class I didn't know anyone and afterwards they like all went out for drinks and I guess I went out with them

and like after two hours they were like, whoa, you're actually like a nice guy and I was like what? They were like, yeah, you just sort of seem like a no-it-all douchebag and I was like that. It was the first time I had heard that and it was just so straight to my face. I haven't thought about that.

Oh, God. That's the worst impression. That sticks with you. Never would have ever put those words to your... Oh, my way. Who's the most adventurous? I was sure we're both pretty adventurous. maybe me just by virtue of the older brother like come on let's go

who would go skydiving we've both been skydiving oh cool but tyler went solo i went before you i guess yeah who's gonna and like a sketchier playing so maybe maybe that's me out of that one who's gonna who's gonna be who's gonna survive who's gonna be the survivalist actually let's put it this way Who's going to last longer on, like, naked and afraid? I was a hiking counselor, so I had to do wilderness training. Oh. Yeah, I would say time, for sure.

Okay. But Jason, like, if we'd get into, like, a gaming world, you're so resourceful and you're really good at, like, taking in a lot of information and finding the right way. I just, like, run straightforward into walls until I break through something. So I'm a little more impulsive. So probably Jason again. We're really bad at the speed round. I feel like we have to justify every.

It's called the justification round. Okay. All right. You asked them the last question we asked. So we asked us to everyone who comes on the show. It's a two-part question. If you could take something from your brother to have as your own, you know, something that you love about them that you wish that you had,

a personality trait or something, you know, something, deep a part of them what would that be and then on the flip side of that you know sort of if you could you know alleviate something from them take something away you know a stressor of some kind that could make them feel better or make their life better in some way than what would that be wow that's oh my god i would say i would say um jason's i mean it's a weird thing to say like I want this from him. But I think like this quality of this like magnetism that's like and it goes back to his depth. He could tell a story that has an entire room just like flabbergasted.

And it can be it can be the funniest story you've ever heard. It could be the saddest thing. But he can bring people together with such ease and like really lighten a room. I mean, like, the whole chemistry changes when he's there. And always for the better. I mean, he's just like such a huge source of light. So that is an incredible quality. That is his and that he should keep for himself.

But you want. You want it. You can want that. No, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess in that similar, in a similar vein, I would say, if there's any part of him in the,

those situations and social situations, if there's any part of him that feels that pressure because he's sort of been carrying that torch for his whole life as far as just being so fun and so funny, I know that that can really weigh on people. And I think it is a way you have fun. But just to know that you don't owe anyone and that you don't, you know, that your genuine self is always you know shining through and and if you ever felt pressure like you had to step up that side of yourself that you you don't um so if that is in there i would say i hope you could let that go oh man that's really lovely this is such a good question um i guess i guess the thing that i would take tyler there's a certain sort of like clarity like a moral clarity like a moral

that I feel like I sort of struggle with sometimes and I feel like I feel like not that it's uncomplicated for everybody and for Tyler too but there's just like there's such a just an inherent understanding of like what the good thing to do would be in any situation

and he just follows that road like I've never like it just it's like that road calls to him and he just goes that way I've never been like what are you doing like probably shouldn't do that

it's all like he I just see him follow this path and he just he has this courage to just take the next step and the next step the next step and I just I can sometimes be paralyzed by my own

you know like indecision about things or or and so that is one thing that I would take and if I would alleviate anything from him I think it would be

any like sort of anxiety about the future I mean now that I just said like he walks forward bravely I think I think it's like a thing where I feel like he seems like he's just

on such the right path and that like who he is and who he surrounds himself with and his family I feel like to to take away to just know that like he's on the right

the right path and that what's supposed to happen will happen even though sometimes when I hear that it drives me insane but I do believe that on some level especially when it's about good things I guess I believe that when it's about that things like the world is chaos no no I get that I totally get that because sometimes you can think like you know

well why what the fuck's going on right now but it's just trust I mean it's just trust trusting that you're you're in the right place you're always in the right place you know exactly absolutely and um thank you and uh but yeah but he just he always is hard in his mind and spiroes are always in the right place like he he's he knows he has this lovely beautiful family he knows you know he's such an incredible dad it's really inspiring to watch uh he was a dad before i was a dad so i got i was the little brother for that's true yeah hey before we get out of here

I forgot to ask you a question when we were talking about your dad. Did you feel like, Jay, that you had to step up in any way, you know, and be the man of the family? Or is that sort of just an idea? I think in some ways I did. Yeah, I mean, for sure, like, being the oldest after the separation and stuff, too. I mean, both in different ways. one after the separation I was like, okay, in some ways

I have to kind of take over and kind of guide and be like, hey, don't do that, do this. Don't do what I'm doing. Don't even know what I'm doing. Just keep your head down. And then, yeah, and then I think again, in a different way

and to more family members at the time of his death. But I think in some ways everyone sort of stepped up. It's a strange thing. It's like a plug gets pulled and everyone kind of like goes to the drain to seal it up before too much water gets out and everyone sort of gets their own little section.

And I think there are ways in which all of the siblings that have filled a hole. Yeah, you definitely filled a particular hole. I started talking about like man of the house or, you know, being like a protective force. Even as recently as, you know, when the lockdown started, Jason was the one in the family to sort of set us all straight a little bit. While we were all like, hey, you know, like I think we can figure this out,

you know, and Jason was like, guys, this is not the time to risk anything if we don't have to, if it's not essential. So, like, way early when this was all starting and people were still finding their roles, you came in and, and, I mean, it's like, it's set my ship straight. Really, I was sort of waving in between two different mindsets. And, uh, and you came in with that, with that sort of authority in a great way that we needed. My anxiety saves the great. No one go anywhere. Don't fucking move.

I don't even know if we can talk on the phone like this. I'm freaked out. Well, thank you guys. Thank you so much. This was a long one. It was so great. Long, very long. But thank you.

Thank you. Bye, guys. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Alison Bresnick. Editor is Josh Windish. Music by Mark Hudson, aka Uncle Mark. It's important that we just reassure people that they're not alone, and there is help out there.

The Good Stuff podcast, Season 2, takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. One Tribe Save my life twice. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on

the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy cheesement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex.

No, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here! Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of heroin into New York from Asia. Had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it. Five, six white people.

Pushed me in the car. Basically, your stay-at-home moms were picking up these large amounts of heroin. All you got to do is receive the package. Don't have to open it, just accept it. She was very upset, crying. Once I saw the gun, I tried to take his hand, and I saw the flash of light.

Listen to the Chinatown Stang on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.