Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Jenna Bush Hager and Barbara Bush

Episode Date: April 12, 2023

Jenna Bush Hager and Barbara Bush sit down with Kate and Oliver this week on Sibling Revelry. They discuss their shared perspective as twins, their time in the White House, how their family informed their childhood, and much more.Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver HudsonProduced by Allison BresnickEdited by Josh WindischMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is powered by Simplecast.This episode is sponsored by:Coors Light (coorslight.com/HUDSON)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece, we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special.

So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with the co-host feature. You can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. Do we really need another podcast with a condescending finance brof trying to tell us how to spend our own money? No thank you. Instead, check out Brown Ambition. Each week, I, your host, Mandy Money, gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel uses.

Like on Fridays when I take your questions for the BAQA. Whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic workplace, I got you. Listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice.

Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya.

Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling rivalry.

No, no. Sibling rivalry. Don't do that with your mouth. That's good. Sibling, Revellerie. That's good. Hello and welcome.

I can't believe it's our first Back. First epi back. At it for long. It's been a while. We've been done this for a while. I know. I know. And the people have been clamoring.

And so we just said, you know what, we got to come back on to save the world for the most part. We have to save the world one sibling relationship at a time. Exactly. Starting off with Jenna and Barbara Bush. Yes, which I loved. I really didn't know what you expect. I mean, I've been interviewed by Jenna. Have you been interviewed by Jenna before?

No, I haven't. And she's great. Always has such great energy. And I always love seeing her. And Barbara, I've, has been at the house. We've had like a night together. We hung out. So they're fraternal twins.

And there are for siblings who have ever lived in the White House. So who else do we need to get that lived in the White House? Well, we should get the Obamas. We need, you know, we need Sasha and Malia. We need Sasha and Malia. And what would actually be a really crazy podcast, which I think would be really interesting, would be Jeb and President Bush. Oh, yeah. But they never do it.

Maybe after they found out that Jenna and Barbara did it. Maybe they're like, oh, well, we want to be cool, too. Jenna, Jenna's the co-host of NBC Today's with Hoda and Jenna, and she's the founder of the Today Book Club, Read with Jenna. We need a book club, by the way. We've been talking about this. I would love. Yeah, we should do a family book club.

That would be hysterical. I would enjoy that. Yeah. Anyway, so then Barbara is the co-founder and the board. chair of global health court, you know, and she's also vice president of the social impact for the MBA. They just do so many amazing things. Yeah, and they're really fun. They're so super easygoing, very personable and, um, and they both, they wrote this children's book. This is what they even, they didn't come on for their health. You know what I mean? They came on our podcast.

Of course, they love the Hudson's, but they actually wrote a children's book. It's their newest one called Love Comes First and it's on bookshelves, November November 7th, 2021, 2023. So it's coming. Anyway, we talked about everything. We talked a lot about their rebellious years. Ghost stories in the White House, the influence of their parents and grandparents, much more. So enjoy this episode. Hello.

Oh, Semplings. Hi. How are you? How are you? How are you? I'm good. I'm glad we figured this out. This is so fun. Let me get the book. Hold on one second. First of all, why don't you guys sort of introduce yourself and talk about Jenna? I mean, we've, you know, you've interviewed me a couple times. Have you been interviewed by Jenna and Hoda? You need to come on our show. I know. Oh, you have it. You're not, you're not feeling me and that's fine. You need to be invited on the show? Yeah. Invite him. Yeah, no. You're invited. It's, it's, uh, I didn't want to bring it up, but it's bullshit. We'll talk about it later.

Um, but let's just start with where we are now and you guys in your life and like what you're, you know, what you're up to. And then we'll go back and delve into that childhood. Well, so yes, I got to interview you. I've also had the opportunity to talk with your loveliest mom, which is always when I'm a hoda and my favorite guest or she is. She's, like, just light. She's the best. The best. And so, yeah, I work every day on television, which is hilarious and something I never thought I would do.

I thought I was going to teach. And I did teach in inner city, D.C. and West Baltimore for the first several years of my career. And then I made this pivot. And it's really fun because I'm curious and I'm interested in the way that people live. and are and what lights them up. And I get to sit next to, like, a joyful, a true, joyful, human. She's so great. He's awesome.

What made you want to even attempt doing this? Yeah. Well, I did not want to, and I turned a job down for the first several years. Oh, wow. Okay. Because there's nothing I would ever want to do. And I was on the show for a book that I wrote, which is why they, said, oh, you'd be really good at this. Would you ever do this? And I was like, no, I never

would. And so I continued to teach. But honestly, teaching and particularly in our country's marginalized areas is hard, really hard. And I was working insane hours. I dreamed of my students. I was stressed like a lot of our teachers in our country. And my husband was like, maybe you should go take that meeting. You know, it can be a different sort of way of teaching, a different way of telling stories. And so I did. Did you say you dream about your students? Oh, I dreamed about my students.

Right. Like it was all consuming. All consuming. Yeah. It was thinking, you know, and they actually, when I had the interview at the Today Show, they were like, what do you like about the show? And I was like, oh, I'd never seen it. I'm at school.

Yeah, I'm usually driving to school. Exactly. But so I think, you know, for the first year, I was a reading specialist. And I commuted from Baltimore, where I lived to New York, and I worked doing both. But at some point, I made the decision to be all in. And I'm so glad I did. That's so great. And Barbara, what about you?

What are you up to these days? So I work in global health. I've worked in global health pretty much my whole career. I started and ran an organization called Global Health Corps for 10 years, and now I work for a philanthropist. and it's been a busy two years given COVID and everything that's been going on in the world. So it's been fun to feel like I'm not sitting on the sidelines of that. And I had a baby.

So I'm figuring that all out at the same time. It's a lot of fun. My God, that is so well. So where did you guys grow up? We grew up in Texas. We grew up in Austin from middle school and high school. So I feel like we think Austin is home, really. We were born in West Texas, which is, like, I don't know if any of you have been to West Texas,

but like if I'm in a room with New Yorkers, nobody has ever been been to where we're from, which is a really small town called Midland. And West Texas is like the desert. If you've all been to Murphah, it's very similar to that. Yeah. And we lived near our mom's parents, who I'm named after Jenna Welch and our grandpa. thought Harold who passed away and we were 13, but they were desert people. He was a home builder, and she never graduated from college, but she was like a lifelong

naturalist and learner. She taught us all the constellations in the sky. She had a rock collection that Barbara and I would like go look at and she would teach us about the rocks and how they were made. And she took community college classes until she was too old to drive, until she got into a car accident. and we were like, I can't drive it anymore. So they really kind of informed

so much of our early childhood. Mm-hmm. How cool. Is it Friday Night Lights? Was that West Texas? That's Dylan, right? And totally. Yes.

I never got into Friday night. Oh, it's so good. Like, so good. Watch it now. It's incredible. I just re-watched it and it's amazing. Yeah. Were you got, wait, were you, I don't,

I'm trying to think of how old you guys are. Were you born? when your grandpa was president? Yes. When we were born he was vice president. And so that was sort of like what we entered the world with on that side of our family. And we were super close with them and would visit them in D.C. all the time. But our day to day was much more informed by my mom's parents, Harold and Jenna.

Oh, okay. And what did Harold do? He was like in construction. He was a home builder. And in fact, he built the home that my mom grew up in and that my grandmother lived in until she had to move to go out like a retirement community in her late 80s, early 90s. So that was more of your life then, was that side of things where grandpa was vice president. It was like vice what? Like or was that a close to him, you know, so it wasn't like we could go over every weekend.

But when we were with him, you know, we. loved him and they were super present. But yeah, our life was much sort of smaller and scale than I think people probably assume for how long? Really, I think, until my dad became president. Yeah. So we were eight, our dad became president when we were 18 and I feel like if God, did you hate that?

I mean, did you hate that? I mean, was it just like, oh, Jesus Christ, are you fucking kidding me right now? Like, I'm 18 years old. Like, is this really happening? Well, you guys weren't in the White House, though, right? They were in college, right? Yeah, we're in college. Yeah, but still, secret service.

All of a sudden, you're like, you can't go to a party. Like, thanks, Dad, thank you. We're going to respond well when he told us wedding for president. Oh, really? Really? We were 16, which was probably even quitely more temperamental time than we. And we, I know, like, we'll never forget crying. Yeah, do you remember where we were, Barbara?

Right. No, do you? I remember crying. When we're outside, like, took us outside to sit on this bench to be like, I think he thought, like, maybe the outdoor nature a bit would calm us down. But we both cried in unison. Worse into tears at the same time. We told him he was going to lose. He was going to ruin our life, which we've since apologized.

And we said we were sorry. But we were like, how good you do this to us? Oh, my God. It makes sense, though, like 16-year-old girls. I mean, and then your dad decides to run for president, which is like, I mean, talk about the most, like being in the craziest spotlight. I mean, it's just talk about a difficult thing at that age. I couldn't imagine.

How did your dad respond when you're like, fuck you, dad, you ruined my life? Was he just like, all right, girls, like, relax? He was actually, he's actually like, was really, like, was really. calm. I mean, I think I don't understand about it. He was calm about it. Like, he didn't react. He wasn't very reactive with us, which I think was

a good way to be with the way our personalities were. It's like two on one all the time, so it's better. It was better to be calm with us. Well, let's go back a little bit. Your twins.

We're twins. You're fraternal. Fraternal twins. And I mean, we've, we've been lucky enough to interview a couple twins. Now, we actually interviewed an expert in twins, which was really interesting. Yeah, it was cool. But let's go back to, like, your first memories. Like, do you guys have very vivid, specific first memories as kids?

Well, I mean, my first memories definitely, and this is the thing about being a twin, is that you're my whole world like everything that I am is because of Barbara like she was the one that taught me what love looks like we had the same we were the same exact age so therefore like none of us had had different perspectives on things like we had a very shared history and a shared perspective on the history so definitely I just remember like at my form of at that age, which could still be lingering, very aggressive. Like, I just wanted to, like, wheeze, Barbara. I loved her so much.

I just wanted to, like, eat her, hold her so tight. And she, she, her love is slightly more gentle. I remember bothering you. I do remember you smothering me. Those are some of my first memories. But you were smothering me with love. But I have no childhood memory. that don't have Jinnah in them.

And like the ones that I remember from when we were the youngest or when if Jinnah was hurt or something, like being worried for my sister or like us like exploring together. Because the best thing about a twin is you have a playmate at all times and you'll have no scary first moments as a twin. Like if the first day of school you have a partner to do it with or when Jenna was, I remember Jenna broke her jaw when we were in pre-K.

And I remember like being with her. at school during that. Like, it was so amazing that you have someone by your side and all these moments. And for us, it meant that we had someone to have a huge imagination with. It made everything fun.

Oh, that's so great. I'm jealous. Sounds great. That sounds so wonderful. I feel like it's true. Like, when you... Because, I mean, a lot of times when you're young and you're growing up,

like, you really do find yourself using your imagination on your own, in your room. you're alone time. You find that that's when, you know, when you have your own kids, you watch them have those moments. I think are really important. But to have someone to be able to do that with all the time. Yeah. Were you inseparable, like actually inseparable? Or did you have your own ideas and your own desires to be without each other and do you and be independent? Because there's a codependency that can exist that can maybe be unhealthy.

We didn't. We weren't codependent. I don't think. Do you? Or was, I could have depended on you and you weren't on me. I think you were a more code of it. But we liked different. I mean, we had fun during all the same stuff, but we, like, Jenna was a, it's not surprising to me that Jenna's on the Today Show. She was a performer since she was little. She, like, loved to sing.

She wanted to be an actress. She was constantly performing. And I feel like I was her audience in a healthy way. And we liked different things, which was really sweet. of my parents to indulge us having at the same age, having different interests. Therefore, we could be, like, I don't think our identity was ever confusing to us

the way that I think it can be with some twins. And also, we look, you know, we, I don't know, I feel like there's a big difference between identical and fraternal. We look so different that nobody, you know, the only thing they would say is like, and even now, like, people will be like, oh, the Bush twins. And for some reason, Berber and I find that, like, slightly, Like, it gives us, like, oh, can you just call us our names?

You know? Yeah. We're 40. And Barbara gets mad when I say we're in our 40s because she's like, no, we're just 40. You know what's weird? I know this sounds crazy. I didn't even know you guys were twins. Is that, is that mean I'm so not?

Yeah, I thought you guys were like, I thought you guys were more like Irish twins. I thought one was a little bit older. People didn't, like, we get it one way or the other. But a lot of people are like, you have a twin. You know, like people have forgotten, which is also great. But the one that's interesting, and I don't know if your twin expert said this, but about being a twin is that for whatever reason, people feel like even now, that we're the inverse of each other.

So Barbara came and, like, hosted, actually, Kate, your friends who were so cute. Oh, Sarah. Sarah and Aaron. Yeah. Yeah. They were on. But that day that she was hosting, Davy, who works with me. me, who I love, was like, oh, you're a little quieter than her, huh? You're the quiet one to Barbara. And I mean, even now, like, we're grown humans. And Barbara, what did you

said, Barbara? You can tell them. I said, I'm not the quiet one. It's just hard to get a word and sometimes around. The idea that one would have to be the quiet one and one would have to be the loud, or, you know, whatever. Right, that you're never defined as individuals. You're always defined as one. Yes. And then therefore the other one, like. Right. And I know Barbara very well.

You know there's some wildness in there, you know? Who got into the most trouble? Jenna, for sure. Jenna. Yeah. I did. It's because loud. Right.

Barbara was in high school, Barbara was definitely, like from eighth grade to even to senior year, Barbara was by far Wilder than I was I was just more subtle about it Right she was more slick You were more a bar Or Jenna was more overt

Just like fuck it look at me I'll do this I'll do that Barbara was like Well whoa wait a minute In places she knew she wouldn't get caught Right Exactly Although we didn't get in trouble with the law publicly which wasn't

Oh my God Right A cover of People magazine It said which was like this shows you the time, the time, and oops, they did it again. Did you get two in my piece as well? Because they said, oops, they did it again. I don't know.

I know I got one with you when we ordered the margaritas together. That was stupid. Yeah. That was a, what did you get busted for, ordering margaritas? Yeah. But we walked into a restaurant. There were both of us together. So, I guess the point is we were naive.

And our dad was like, don't. worry y'all can have a be normal college kids like he basically told us and now that i'm a parent i totally get it it's like he wanted to subside our fear and our fear was that we couldn't be normal that we couldn't like we went to a big public high school we had a really normal childhood and i actually think he believed it i think he thought don't worry like y'all can go and do everything that and you know we weren't we weren't doing terrible things we were doing we were 19 or yeah well college yeah well and so you just so happen to have a father who is the president of the united but not only that but it even goes back further with your grandfather even being vice president

then president i mean was there ever that talk where it's like look girls there is something here that we need to be careful of or was it just like no hey you're you're normal humans go do your thing and we'll deal with whatever fallout comes it was not Wow. That was so great. I mean, there was no pressure on us to be some way. I mean, who knows how you're supposed to act if your dad is the president, but there was no pressure for us to act in whatever way. That was, but I do think, I mean, when we were growing up,

our grandfather was so humble that I thought everyone's grandfather was president. I didn't know that that was like this special thing for him. I thought like when we went to as inauguration in first grade, I thought I was about to go to all my friend's grandfather's inauguration. Yeah. And I was really sad to realize that I went back to school after his inauguration, and I asked my friend when her grandfather's inauguration was. She told me he wasn't having one.

And I was so sad. I went home and journaled about it in my phone, I'm my journal. But it like really speaks to how they acted and that our grandparents or a grandfather in particular didn't act like elusive in any. way or that his job was any more special than anyone else's job. And so I think there's something beautiful about how naive we were around that. But it also then, of course, meant that we did make public mistakes. Yeah.

Yeah, but also, thank God, you know, because I'm so happy that our parents allowed us that space to fail. Yeah. Like, I think when now and I'm like kind of with teenagers on the show or when I'm with, when we talk with psychologist, I think one of the. the reasons why kids, why the levels of anxiety and depression are so horribly high is that that kids feel like if they make one mistake, their lives will be over. Yeah. And I feel I have to give our kids grace. Like, you know, it's okay to fail. It's okay to make a mistake. And even though in

the time it felt horrible and we were embarrassed, our parents never shamed us. Like, they want Thanks a lot. You know, now where, now people are talking. They, like, my dad actually apologized to me when I called and I was like crying and I was like, dad, I got in trouble, you know, whatever. He was like, oh, like I told you could be normal. And like, obviously you can't. I mean, the second time we did it, he was a little bit more. Dude, just don't go to a bar for one more year and then you're free.

Oliver Hudson. You ready to tap these Rockies? Let's tap it out. I've tapped a lot of things in my life. My favorite thing to tap is the Rockies. Are the Rockies? Yeah. It's the sexiest beer in town.

Coors Light. But let's just say it that there's literally only one beer that is literally made to chew. Yeah, literally because I'm out. On the bottle, and the cans, they turn blue and your beer is cold. So it's literally, literally made to chill. And we're coming into the summer months. That's right. I was actually talking about, I can't wait to get to Colorado for this summer.

I want to go back and do our, bring a good six pack of Coors Light and do our hiking. Oh, yeah. I want to go do that again. You know what I do is I like to fly fish. Actually, the whole family does. And you can drag those silver bullets behind the boat. So they're getting cold as you're fishing. And then you pull over, boom, crack one, catch a nice trout.

I mean, come on. It doesn't get better. Now I'm upset that I'm not actually doing that in there right now. It's the perfect companion for all things, chill. It's cold filtered. It's cold lagered. It's cold packaged. It's just cold.

So when you choose to choose to, chill, pair your plans with an ice cold Coors Light. Get Coors Light delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart by going to CoorsLight.com slash ascend. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Colton, Colorado. Part of what I love, what you're saying is that even with these, I mean, seriously powerful political figures in your family from a very early age, somehow your father, and your mother were able to make you feel like you could go have a real fun, yeah, teenage existence.

Yeah, and what about your mom and all of this? You know, because we talk about your dad, of course, but how your mom, her significance in your upbringing and letting you sort of be you? Well, our mom is pretty naturally calm. She's, I mean, she was a librarian. She's very zen. Like, shockingly.

It's wild. I don't know anybody as zen and calm as she is. And she, so therefore it's like she just didn't get riled up by anything. Like we tried to really like, because two on one can be super intense, you know, and she's an only child. So I think we tried to rile her, but she stayed very calm and not like such a gift because her piece of advice always like when we would come with like teenage shit, you know. Can you say that in a podcast? Yeah. It was like things that hurt our feelings when we were 15 years old as a girl.

She would be like, listen, I know that hurts, but I probably, that's not big enough to worry about. Like, save it for the things that are going to really hurt. And it's true because we have things in our lives that are monumental that hurt us, that even in high school we did, you know. But the little kind of petty thing, she would listen to us, but she would just reassure us. that, like, they didn't deserve all of our attention. And that was really, really helpful. I mean, I don't know. Well, also, mom, I mean, our mom is shockingly calm,

but she also really wanted us to figure out who we were. There was no prescriptive path for us. And I know some parents, like, pressure their kids to figure, to follow some path. But our mom was the opposite of that. She wanted us just to pursue what we were interested in. And, I mean, we traveled with our parents around the world, around the country, around the world. I went to five continents with my parents.

And they just wanted to expose us to as many different people and as many different ways of being so that hopefully we would figure out how we wanted to be. And I think that's a huge gift that my mom in particular wanted us to explore and figure out what got us excited, even if it didn't, you know, if it wasn't exciting to her or to others. And that was really lucky. And were you able to be super open with your parents? Tell them everything or, you know. I mean, yes, we did not tell them every single thing, but we definitely could. I mean, don't you feel like, Barbara? Yeah.

I like, personality-wise, I'm very private. So I did not tell my parents everything, but I could have. And now at this age, I tell my parents everything because why not? But when I was younger, I was like, it would have been totally allowed and accepted in every way. Are you guys still holding a secret now that your parents don't know that you did when you were kids or something kind of bad? We're like, oh, shit, they still don't know about this

and we're 40. Probably. That's, probably. You know, it's one thing to, like, have a parent that people look at, like, oh, I want to be just like you or your movies made me feel happy. Or, you know, the tap dancing parent is very different than like people who are actually in charge of our future.

You know, like the pressure of that is so interesting that they really protected you, it feels like, from how unbelievably powerful their positions, both grandpa and dad, you know, because, you know, your dad was, you know, as most presidents are, but polarizing and in a very intense time, like being in college, well, let's go to your grandpa first.

Like, when did you guys first have that experience of like, oh, someone's like upset with my parent or someone's like pushing back and I don't really understand what's going on, you know? When, for what I'll tell our grandfather and Berber, you can probably talk more to dad. Yeah. And I was at a grocery store, and there was a, like, a Newsweek, I think, or a Time magazine. I'm pretty sure it was Newsweek, though, that had him on the cover. And it said the Wimp factor, they called him a Wimp, which was like such a 90s or late 80s word. You know, like, we used Wimp on the playoff.

Yeah. I call, I still call Alia Wimph all the time. I'm a proud man. But remember, like, that was such a word of our childhood. Do you know what I mean? Wimpy. Wimpy. So disconcerted to see somebody who I loved so much.

Also, like, the way that he led was gentle. Yeah. Was much more difficult. I mean, he was a very different leader than we've seen in the last couple, you know, or the last decade. He was, he led with love. He listened. He was raised to be so humble.

that, like, actually, he would get in trouble as a little boy if he bragged about, like, his baseball team or something. So we didn't know any end of the stuff that he had done. You know, he never talked about himself. He always asked questions. He always gave credit to everybody that helped him. Like, he would never, he didn't need to be, like, the macho spotlight, I'm the king type of guy.

And so, like, to us, that felt beautiful and just who he was, you know? And, and so it, I remember, like, I'm really confused and it was like right around when I learned how to read. And you were second grade. I think first or second. But I could read it and I could see it. And I asked my mom and, you know, it just, it felt like such a different way than I would have described him. But, I mean, that's how he was thought of as a leader. It's like not strong enough, not tough enough, not bragging about himself enough.

And did you feel a sense of like, I mean, especially being the aggressive lover in the family, were you like, did you feel like this desire to protect grandpa? I mean, I just felt, yeah, I did. Like, I was sort of wanted to, like, move all the magazines and put something else on top, you know? Like, it just so didn't match the words. So didn't match what we thought of him. Like, he was our hero. We admired him so much.

So that was, that was, like, sort of. of the first and kind of only time when we were little. Do you remember how your parents, or did you talk to your mom or dad about that feeling? Do you remember that? Yeah, I mean, I definitely did. I don't remember what their, I think they sort of just let us talk it out because I think they also knew, like, that's, you know, freedom of speech. Like, that's what comes with the territory.

And so it's like, what could they say, you know? Like, it is what it is. But I think they let me talk about, like, what that feeling felt like, and how, like, hurtful it was to me as a little kid to see that. Mm-hmm. Even though it's, again, it's part of the job, like, your grandfather and your father probably don't get stung by a lot, you know? No, they don't.

Yeah. Definitely. Like, it didn't hurt his feelings, you know? I mean, I think he, you know, was like, oh, they believe in the freedom of a journalist. I mean, that's actually a free speech. At the time, was your dad governor? No. Not yet.

When was your dad governor later? He became governor when we were in the middle of seventh grade. Oh, gosh. Oh, my gosh. You guys. Oh, my gosh. And you were like campaigning with your parents during these times, too, probably. No.

Oh, no. We almost never. I mean, we chose to campaign with our dad when he ran the second time for president when we were 22. But besides that, our parents were not into having us. They didn't want us to do anything

that made us feel uncomfortable or put us in the spotlight in any way. Which is so lucky. Like, we didn't have to do any of the sort of cheesy campaign ads that you see with the family. We just were involved in whatever we were doing when we were, I mean, 13 isn't a great time for a transition, but we were just doing our thing,

and they were very respectful of that. But also, for some reason, the difference between, I mean, not for some reason, but the difference between it, I don't know if it's still this way, but then the difference between governor and president was drastic. Or my dad was governor.

From downtown to Austin High School, we had like a totally, totally normal high school experience. And nobody cared, you know? I think Austin was so laid back at the time that it was we got no attention no one cared what our dad did

was the most normal like movie high school experience but that changed in college I would assume when dad's president in the United States and then how do you deal with that shit I mean God

wait I want to go back to your first time Barbara where you discovered like oh my God people are talking shit about my family you know It's a terrible feeling because we've experienced it differently, but very different, I think, politically.

I think so I, I mean, I was out of it as a kid. I mean, I really is like the credit to our grandparents. When we were with them, they were 100% there, that we, they were so present with us that I had no idea the role that my grandfather was in. But when I went to college, it was different. I went, I chose to go to a school where I didn't know anyone. when I went to Yale, which is like a highly political campus, it was probably the only person that voted for my dad on the entire campus. And it was during the recount, the 2000 recount, was by freshman year.

And there were like protests going on for the recount. And I did not, I mean, our dad knew what he was getting into, and you referenced this before he had such a thick skin. Like, he knows that part of the job is people criticizing you. That's what comes with the territory, and you rise above that. And so in many ways, I was surprised by my experience, but I had the best roommates. I mean, luckily, I made friends who protected me, and they would, I found out later, they would, like, walk with me to a party, and we would walk around the protest.

They would take me in a different direction, so I didn't even know they were going on, just because it felt so pretty. to me. Even though no one there was protesting who they thought was my dad, they were protesting this guy that they disagreed with. But for me, it took a really long time to disengage from how this guy that I love so much that has shown up in every way in our life and been there for me and all the sad things and all the happy things. It was so hard for me to disengage from them attacking this person that I loved so deeply and who I saw so, differently and part of that I'm sure is a similar experience to y'all in that in public life

people will only know these certain aspects of your parents and and the beauty is you get to know all these different sides you know I know all these different facets of my dad that no one will ever know unless they're related to him and that's kind of the beauty of it but it's also the hard part of it in that you want to tell other people that their interpretation it's different But, I mean, I didn't watch the news ever. Yeah, it's also people, you know, they just latch on to any kind of salacious negative story, as we know, you know. So, like, people, the passion, the passion and the anger behind politics. For you, being on campus during that time where it's like, oh, it's the Bush kid.

Really, I mean, I think what was like what I really realized is that then I made friends with everyone. I mean, I really like, I joke what I. I say I'm the only person that voted for my dad on campus, but I probably am the only person who's voted for my dad on campus. And I was friends with everyone. And I think then you people realize like, wait, I'm actually talking bad about this person's dad. I'm not going to do that around them because, you know,

I would never talk bad about someone else's dad. Yeah. And so it, it, it, but at the beginning, that was my freshman year. And I was in shock. Like, I never thought of myself as the president. daughter because I'd never been the president's daughter. And all of a sudden, identity-wise, that's how other people see me. So it was sort of a complicating experience to figure out when you're already trying to figure

out what your identity is when you're 18. And Jenna, where were you? I went to Texas. So I stayed in Austin where we went to middle school and high school. And I sort of chose the safer route because I knew a lot of people. I kind of like had an instant day one. group of people that left me, you know? Barbara's like, I'm just going to jump right into the fire.

Yes. Yeah. Wow. I would think growing up in such a, like, I mean, the lineage, the political lineage of your family, what is it, like, where do you guys sit politically? Yeah. It's so funny because I feel like when people are like, you know, when there's like a family of doctors or I guess like a family of actors, you know, people just assume like two things.

One, that we're going to, like, it used to, for sure. I mean, I think we've sort of defined yourselves a little bit by this point. But the first question was, like, are y'all going into politics? Yeah. Like, I'm sure people will ask if your kids are going into, like, I'm sure I've asked that question to somebody. Now I regret it. Right. Everybody just assumes that that will follow, like, the family business, one.

And then, two, it's like even recently people will say things to me, like, they think, that they know how we vote or how we make. And I'm like, so interesting to me that they think because our parents, and not even both of our parents, like you said, our mom has had differing views from our dad and have been vocal. Our grandmother in the 90s was pro-choice. And in fact, when, like, you know, her husband was the Republican president, and she came out and said it while he was president.

Wow. And so I, and, you know, my mom came from her parents were like yellow dawn Democrats down in Texas. So the point is, like, we come from a family where everybody's allowed to believe whatever they want to make. And in fact, our parents, I like just interviewed my dad for something. And I was like, yeah, y'all probably think our dad was like, you need to vote this way and believe this way and you can't do this. And I was like, but he wanted us to be, you know, sure he. and independent. And I was like,

and now that I'm a parent, I know, like, what a pain in the ass that is. He was like, yeah, y'all, we're a pain in the ass. You know, like that.

Evanor, we would, Barbara and I would, like, read about the death penalty and sit him down and be like, dad,

this is ridiculous. Like, and like, he would come home from debating something to like two little 13. Right. Well,

I was going to, I was going to ask you that, like, when he was president and you were in college, now you're, you're sort of becoming, coming, you know, these women and vocal.

And do you ever, like, dad, what the fuck are you doing? Like, what is this law? What is this policy? Like, I mean, would you ever talk to him about that? And be like, like, I don't get this. I don't like it. I don't know what the hell you're doing right now. Yes.

That's so great. That's amazing. I also love that your dad's just surrounded by girls. Like, that's just, it's like, you know, outspoken girls. And he, and by the way, like, he, he listens. Like, it's not, I mean, because I think what we want, I mean, I want this for my kids, too, is to feel like they can be themselves and have their own opinions and their own beliefs.

And I feel like that seems like that's how your parents are, too. It's like you don't have to just take on our ideology. You know, there's a really sweet picture of your grandpa, my mom, dancing. Oh, yeah. My mom has that somewhere. I think my mom has it framed in the house somewhere. Yes. I think this is when she, didn't she spill her drink on his lap?

She spilled her drink and then they danced. Yeah. Like she said he was just the best. At the White House or where was it? No. It was it some sort of a dinner. Yeah. She's this picture of them dancing.

Maybe it was an old, like in the 90s. But they had the best time. Not cute. You know it's so funny. I was just thinking because as a parent like, you know, you want to do anything to please your kids. You know, like if they have a problem, you want to try to fix it in some way. Yeah. Even when they probably are older.

And so if you have sort of, if your dad's the president of the free world and you have real feelings about something, it's almost hard as a parent to be like, well, sorry, like this is the way I want to do it, even though I know you girls are so passionate about this, you know, because you have the power to, to affect policy at that point. Yeah. Because you're playing your dad's love and heartstrings in a sense. Yeah. Yeah. Although we were like, and, you know, again, like, we were so, I mean, college is just such a selfish time because you're like innately for everybody. You're trying to figure out what you study, who you want to be, what friends you want around you, like, whatever. And so it was, you know.

And you know everything and you don't want to talk to your parents about it because they don't know anything. Yes. Like we just sort of, I mean, there were definitely times, I think, where we both would call and be like, dad. you know, thinking about way, but not like in our day to day. Do you know what I mean? We weren't like working advisors to the president. No, of course not. I mean, the thing is right

when he got to office, fucking 9-11 happens too, which is just... That's what I was going to say is 9-11 happened so early in his presidency that I think when we were around him, we just wanted to be funny and make him laugh and entertain him and try to provide some levity so that he wasn't thinking, you know, we didn't know

what he was on his mind. when we were with him, and he obviously never would bring it up because he didn't want to put any weight on us in that way. But I think we tried harder to, like, entertain him whatever we were around him rather than bring up anything difficult. I wonder, too. I mean, think about it.

It's like, it keeps kind of like, you know, your uncle, like everybody in your family is, like, very kind of politically focused. I mean, most. Does ever, do you ever have moments where you're just like, like angry at them for any kind of like ideas or ideology or, you know? I mean, like all families and particularly over, you know, in the last decade, you know,

there's some families that can't sit across from each other and because politics have so divisive. Yeah. And so, you know, in the time when everybody was having those conversations, which I guess is still now, but particularly in that sort of era of which I know you're you know what I'm referring to like we were like all families right and we had conversations where everybody would have different points of views yeah um but mostly we all sort of so you know and I think um but I think that's sort of what and somebody said this to me once they were like so your parent and your grandparents put humanity above political party. And I was like flabbergasted. Like I was like, yes. Yes. I was supposed to be. Yeah. I don't know if that makes sense. But like they haven't always voted for the Republican candidate. Right. Because they again, like they're open and they extend that. You know, that's public knowledge. But they're open and they, it's like a

case by case, you know. And I think there's like nuance in our family's conversation, which is like what's missing so much. Oh, God. It's gone. It's going away rapidly if it's not, if not already gone. Now there is, there is no, it's not about ideology. It's not about what you believe in. What's in your heart. It's just about power and sort of staying in power and staying in power at all costs. And it's so crazy. What does this say about public service? What kid wants to be president now? What kid wants to be like, I want to be president of the United States. It's like, no fucking way. Look, look at this. Like, look at this mess.

Who wants to get into politics? I know. People always, I mean, obviously our whole life, people have always said to us as they probably have to any member of our family, are you going to go into politics? And we used to be so aggressively, we would respond so aggressively, like on the count of three, we'd say no, like as loud as we could, basically. And now I would still say no, but it breaks my heart because I actually, you know, it's really sad if people don't want to go into political office or don't want to go into service.

You know, that's such a disheartening time, but it's so impossible to be in that world right now. Yeah. There's no respect. There's no sense of, you know, camaraderie or, you know, solution-oriented. People stopped listening for some reason. They're all playing up to be like the loud person in the room. And yeah, I don't know. Real quick, getting back to you guys, though, for a second, because you You were so inseparable high school, growing up, everything, and then boom, now you're off to different colleges. I mean, was that break tough for you guys? Was it difficult?

Well, when we were little, and this is like another benefit to our parents, they sent us to different camps, different summer camps. Wow. Which was so smart since we were seven. So we had to navigate by ourselves and, you know, be on our own and make friends by herself, which was really smart. I feel like it wasn't hard to separate for college. It was almost like we got double the college experience.

Like, we got, like, I'd go stay with Jenna all the time. She would come visit me all the time. And I was friends with her friends. And she was friends with my friends at Yale and still. Now. So it was kind of, it was only additive when we separated. Like, we got to then live through each other also. Mm-hmm.

Did you ever get to spend any time in the White House? Yes. Okay, so you would like sleep, ever sleep there? Did you have rooms? Yeah, rooms. And our mom was really smart. She put two queen beds in each of our rooms so that we would come and bring a ton of friends. Right.

Did you ever bring your boyfriends there? Yeah. Okay. So did you make love in the White House to your boyfriend? Oh, my God. Oliver. Yes. I bet.

Come on. You use the term make love. Well, I'm trying to be sensitive here, you know. I mean, somewhat respectful. Right. We're talking with the White House. You've got to make love, you know. Listen.

No. I'm going to remember if I'm, I'm sure we did. Probably, no comment, but that's probably. No comment, no comment. That's so funny. Could you imagine that, like, that, like, just going to your friend's house, like, in college being like, hey, why don't you come? Like, we're going to, like, visit our parents and you just go and hang out at the one house.

By the way, that's how we would have talked about it, too. Like, yeah. Oh, we're going home to see our mom and dad. I mean, that's how we, that really is how we thought of it. But it was a fun place for some parties. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, I would also think, what about go? What about, is it haunted?

Yeah. It is. It is. Wow. Definitely. Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. What do you mean? I have to know.

How do you know? We heard a ghost. No, but you didn't believe me the first time. The first time, my phone rang, because this was like, again, we were, how old, like a Nokia phone. We were 20, and we had a Nokia phone that rang, you know, we had, like, boyfriends or friends that would call at, like, three in the morning, you know? Now that's, like, when my alarm clock goes off. But anyway, we, like, somebody called at all the night. And we were staying with our parents for the summer.

I was working at a charter school. Where were you doing, Sissy, something? No idea. But we were both there. Yeah, we were both there. The phone rang. I answered it, like, it was like, I'm asleep. Like, I'll call you tomorrow.

Hung up. And I was still awake. And I heard opera. And I'm not like somebody could be listening. It's the middle of the night. We both had fireplaces in our room that we never used, but they were there. And all of a sudden, like, I felt, like, it wasn't just, like, hearing. I felt like a gush of wind and, like, somebody singing opera, loud.

Like, as if they were fucking fireplace. Sorry for the bad words. So I ran in and I jumped and Barbara's room was right next to mine. I ran in. I, like, jumped in her bed. I was like so scared. And she was like, no, no, it's not that. And then Barbara, two nights later.

Two nights later, I was, we were sleeping in the same room. I was in Jenna's room. We had both fallen asleep and all of a sudden we hear like 1920s piano music. Yes. coming from the fireplace but as if someone was there playing the piano I wonder if Chelsea had the same thing I have to ask Chil is I wonder if

she had any of those experiences I don't know she was there more than we were so she might have but we but then I the next morning I like we talk ourselves out of it there is a piano outside or there was outside our room so we're like possibly it's like the cat

playing in 20s like some opera. 20s Mary time. That would be even weird. You walk out the cat. It's like, oh,

wait a minute. Something's really weird. And then I went outside. So we loved named Buddy who just retired was there. And I was like, buddy,

you're not going to know. The piano was closed. Yeah, the piano was closed. I mean, we just said that to ourselves for sleeping purposes. I could go back to sleep. And I was like,

buddy, You won't believe what we heard. And he was like, oh, Jenna. Like, that's like, you wouldn't even bathe the amount of saying the sweep scene around here. Wow. But that's like, Berg. But those were our two experiences. Of course.

But of course. I mean, it's the, I mean, think about how many different people have been in the White House, you know, throughout the years. And how, like, fraught each of the time. Yeah. But they were friendly. Yeah, love music. Was that just the one time? Or did it happen more?

It happened twice, just twice. Just twice. But there were other things that other people, like, remember Reagan had that story of like a big footprints, and then she found out that a baby had died. And that baby had died in the White House. Yeah. And saw baby footprints in her room. Yeah.

There's probably so much secretive stuff that goes down in that place. I mean, baby footprints is, that's even weirder because my baby's, walking. They're more, and also they're more like a one-year-old baby. It's like, baby footprints is like really creepy. And like a walking baby,

it's just nuts. Oh my God. You guys have done a lot of writing. It's kind of manifested its way into these children's books. And so I want to make sure we touch on this a little bit. So when did you guys decide?

Well, first of all, your first book was really about you guys together, wasn't it? Best, Oh, New York Times. How was that experience for you? It was, we decided to do it on the day after the 20th election. And we had a meeting, bugged, and we went with, like, to talk about actually the children's book, that's where we were going to start, which is easier.

I said, I don't take so long to write. then we both felt like so much of night. I had spent the night before with Jenna to watch the election results come in in New York. We live four blocks from each other. And I went over there and the night got later and later. So it just spent the night with her and her bed. And my husband.

Yeah, her husband was out of town. And so when we woke up the next morning, we were going to this meeting about a children's book. And we were both so surprised by the election results, like so many people were when they woke up the day after the election in 2016. And we had realized

that we'd spent so many election nights together, some on elections that were more personal, you know, like so much, you know, involving our family, all of which were important for the country. And we ended up deciding on the subway to our book meeting

to write, instead of a children's book, to write a book of short essays, that were more sort of a love letter to each other, to having a sister and a partner in our life and also a love letter to our family members sort of around the bigger message of what we've been talking about

that, like, humanity is what matters and not, you know, devotion to your political party and trying to show these other sides of people that had chosen service and normalize that experience. I mean, that's what it ended up being. I don't think we knew it was going to be that in the moment. I think, like, and at first we were like,

we want a love letter to sisterhood Because no matter like what political party you were in, the way women were talked about in the 2016 election was not okay with us. And at that time I had two little girls, like a brand new baby girl who's now six, but like, you know, a tiny infant. And I just was like, this is not the direction we need for our girls. And so that's, we decided really like around. Oh, that's great. So it's inspired by it. I love that.

Okay. So then that, and then that was a bestseller. And then you finally got to now do your children's book, which I got to read to my daughter yesterday, which I was really happy about. Super cute, super power sisterhood. Yeah. And so it's all around like, so the first book was really about blood sisters like Barbara M.I.R. But this is all around friends. Like I think I know Kay from friends, but mutual friends that we have. And that you have like a group of women that make you feel powerful and break. And Barbara and I have that same thing, you know, not only in each other, but, and our colleagues, like, I don't know what I would do without Savannah and Hoda. They, like, are my lifeline. They pick up my kids from the bus when I'm out of town. Like, it just is about how we want our girls to support each other and to love each other and how each of us have talents that are, you know, human. But together with our group of friends, they can become, like, super powerful. Yeah, and I think it's such an important message because it's okay to remind ourselves that as women, we are predisposed based on historically how women had to, you know, protect themselves, that we are predisposed to compete with each other, that we need to actually change the way that old part of our brain, you know, can react to other women, like that we actually are much stronger when we're supporting and connected to. each other than the old ways

we've been taught through sort of you know the patriarchy and all of that with patriarchy you know much happier to be grounded by a group of funny oh my god it's just are you blaming the patriarchy for your catiness no no I'm no

I'm no I yes please I'm surrounded by men I wish I had some more women in my life because I've three brothers. But also, like, what we hope with this book, and I see this with my daughters, my daughters and Samantha Guthrie's daughter are best friends. And, like, the way they act to each other is how I want Mila to have friends for the rest of her life. Because Mila, you want, and

Brne Brown actually, like, writes about this, but you want people in your life that make you feel like anything that you have that's innately yours is powerful and awesome. So, like, as opposed to like, so for example, I said to Mila, I said, how was bail in the play? And she goes, oh, mom, she was spectacular. And, like, that's who I want to be friends. I don't want, like, Brune Brown calls them like the candleblower outers, like the person that would be like, oh, you like math, ugh. Yeah. You like dance. If dances were babies, like my kids, they're allowed to do whatever they want, but if a little candleblower, a blower outer, comes over to her and ups like that in front of them,

I don't know how I'm going to respond. Yeah, you're going to be like, bye. I know. You're not hanging out with this. Bottom of all, because it's time for you to go home. Right. Like, I always had somebody that, I mean, there were more mean girls,

and there's that period of, like, seventh grade and sixth grade that's just awful for anybody, you know. But, like, I innately hadn't in Barbara, you know, so I'd look for it now in whoever I'm going to surround myself with. Barbara, what were you going to say. I agree with that. I also think, like, I mean, it's a good reminder that you have to walk the walk. I mean, you know, thinking of myself that I have to walk the walk too. And in that, like, when you're little, you're always watching what your parents do. And if your

mom walks the, I mean, Kate, I think from what I know about you, you do this. If your mom walks the walk in that way, and that's what you think is the norm. Yeah. And I think that, you know, I mean, that goes back to what we're saying about our grandfather. He was so humble that we thought everyone acted like that. Like, it's only when you get older that you realize that's not the case. But it's, I mean, it's so easy to say when you're not in an emotional moment, but our lives are only additive because of each other. Like, my success is not diminished because of your success.

Rationally, we know that. And then you have to hold yourself accountable to being the person you want to be. I just own my disdain and anger for people who make more money than me and are more successful. You just own it It's like, okay, yeah You made $2 million for that piece of shit Like, oh God, all right, whatever You know, I own it, cool

You're not in the Superbauer's sisterhood Yeah, you got to get Ollie in here I'll like, we'll convert you Yeah You join the sisterhood every Halloween I do pretty much You guys ever fight doing the book Being like, no, I don't want to say that

Or this picture sucks, never, wow, never Do you guys fight? Yeah. We haven't fought in a long time. Well, it was all about, I mean, it was primarily about clothes, really. Yeah. The staring. Like sharing.

We had a hard time learning how to share it. Oh, okay. And how to share better. I would give anything to have a sister that I would fight over sharing clothes with. Sometimes when I think about, like, whenever we interview sisters or my friends who have sisters, it's like, it's like looking at, like, Like, it's like looking at, I feel like it's like an alien relationship to me. Do you know what I mean? My mom is the closest thing I have to that feeling.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we have, it's sort of different because we have cousins that were boys acted like brothers. So like, I feel like a sister is harder to replicate than a brother, no offense. It's true. It's fine. In his older age, he's bringing more of femininity. I'm extremely feminine. Who's, you know, I feel like, sometimes I feel like he's like my sister.

Very feminine, very emotional. He is. He cries with me. I'm very empathetic. I have a major anxiety, you know. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that doesn't have to be perfect. That's not like a gender specific.

Well, let's do the speed round. Okay, cool. All right, one word to describe each other. Funny. Brilliant. Wait, I'm describing to her breath, obviously. I'm describing you all. Yeah, thank you.

Brilliant and funny. Okay. Who was the boundary pusher? No. Probably her. I'm going to assume that, Jenny, your boss here as well. Who's boss here? Yeah.

Yeah. For, like, some holiday. I'm not, or I guess my kids gave it to me. I'm, like, looking around to find out, I'm not the boss. I'm not bossy. I'm the boss. Okay, who was, now we actually interviewed another, this man who's wonderful, who's researched siblings and sibling dynamics who said there's always a favorite, and it does change

that usually with a family there is a favorite child and then it can move around. Is there a favorite child with you two? Now they're me Barbara is now But when we were Barbra was my mom's favorite And I was my dad's And now it's just pure Barbara

Is it all Barbara all the time? Oh my God I see it now more with our grandchildren I can tell which grandchild Is sort of in the favorite spot Right Yeah you know Do your parents admit it

Are they just like yeah no Barb's the famous Oh for sure Yeah. But probably behind my back. Oh, and they admitted it to you? No, definitely not. Oh, I didn't. Oh, wonderful.

Behind my back. Yeah. Great. Thanks, guys. They actually said it. Yeah. First concert. Paul Simon.

Yeah, Paul Simon, Grace Land Tour. Oh, that's a good one. Love. R.P. Oh, my God. That's cool. That album was so good. It's the best.

The first one we went to by ourselves was Pearl Jam, and I was looked up and Barbara, and we were like, yeah, we were probably too young to be by ourselves, and looked up, and Barbara was like a tiny, she still is, but was like a little tiny human, was like crown surfy. So what song?

Do you remember, was it like black? Like, what song was it? It's so fun. Yeah, I was probably was. was black. We were 13. It was the early 90s. We were... Pearl Jam was the best. Who's more of a prankster? Probably me. Jenna, you know, April Thursday is Jenna's best holiday.

Oh, really? She loves... I forgot about it this year. I didn't go all in. I know. Usually like, yeah, we just am really wonderful. Wonderful. Okay, who is the better student? Barbara B. Who's more artistic? Oh, we didn't even get into your dad's painting. Oh, I know.

No, he's good. I think, for me. It depends. She's more artistic in them. I'm more of a writer. She's more of a painter. Got it. I know.

What about first celebrity crush? Oh, my gosh. Jonathan Brandis from the movie Ladybugs. Oh, my God. What? I don't even know. He passed away RIP. It was horrible. Who?

Do you remember Jonathan Brandis? Did he pass away? So my ex-girlfriend I did it for three years. Her name was Vanessa Shaw, and she was the star of Ladybug. Of Ladybug? Yeah. It was so good. Yeah.

Oh, really? Yeah, it's like a soccer movie. I don't know for much about it. Was it a soccer movie? Yeah, soccer. I had so many first questions. I can't even pick one. It was like.

I don't know. Tell us three. Who were your first movie? first top three. My top three was Corey Hame. Okay. Joey McIntyre. Louis McIntyre.

New kids. New kids on the block. I like Nicole Eggert. She was like it for me. Charles and Charge. You can tell we're all of the same time. Right. Okay. Who is more organized?

Sissy. Who's more of a minimalist? Me. I just have three children Yeah Right Who's more of an asshole Oliver

That's actually a really interesting Yeah who's more of an asshole I got me a question And Barbara's like Barbara can be an asshole But I think Barbara's more I'm an asshole

That is not true Definitely more of an asshole But when you texted me on the picture, you're more of an asshole, you're just a quiet asshole. Oh, that's so funny. Remember when I texted you, don't. Or what? But what did I text you? Well, tell me after.

And you texted me. You're kind of like deeply inside a little bit of an asshole. I've got like some scratchiness. Yeah. You need to be scratched. It's so interesting. Who's more of an asshole with us? You.

No way. I'm not an asshole at all. But you say the most asshole things. Yeah, but is a joke? You asked us if we may. I am so not an asshole, but you actually... You're more of an asshole than I am. But I'm not.

Yeah, you are. Like, what, give me one thing that I've ever said. We just got to pull everyone around us. No, I actually think, this is what I think is interesting. I'm not saying you're an asshole. I think because you're funny. I think because you're funny. I think because you're funny.

funny I can get away with things there's no doubt but deep down you really are the bigger asses no way yes no way yeah I think so I'm too nice to be an asshole no you think you're so nice but really deep down you think about I care too much about people's feelings no I'm gonna text now you're texting family affair yeah no we have our family affair text text them ask who our family thinks is more of an asshole No way. I think it's you. It would start too much of a battle. The funniest part is the word

asshole. Right. You know what I mean? That's part of it. Exactly. Well, you're definitely more of a dickhead. I'll take that. She just protectives, you know. That's a good one. Finish it up. Was that the last question?

No. It's like the first time we've ever asked. Okay, one bucket list item. One thing you haven't done that you really want to do. Shit. Well, I mean, one thing I want to do again because I haven't been doing it is travel. That's not very exciting. But I feel like my life has been limited due to COVID.

You just went on the Orient Express from Paris. Yeah, Indiana Friday. Now she's got the bug again. I've got a bug, big time. I'm with you. That sounds amazing. I would love to be. I mean, that's in meanwhile, it's like I've gone to forward tech this.

Yeah. To take job every day and three children. So when Barbara's like, I just would love to like get back out there in the world. I'm like, I received postcard from Venice. You like, yeah. You like took the kids to Garrison, New York. She's the asshole for sure. It's got to have an asshole.

You got to wake up every day at three in the morning. I just would love to travel a little. I'm like, eat it, Barbara. Okay, so what is your bucket list? I'd like to learn how to sing. J-Lo said that her book, well, J-Lo said this via Hoda, so I'm not, you know, we don't church, but J-Lah said that her vocal coach can teach anybody how to sing.

And as Barbara alluded to, I wanted to be a Broadway star when I was a small child. So I'd like to go to J-Lo's coach and learn, like, not how to be J-Lo, but how to carry a tune. You know, that's... I'm not sure what it's for. It's very doable.

Right. But you can achieve this. Yeah. See, Kate is a really good singer. Oh, I know she is. I've seen the films that she's the thing. I love to sing. Oh, um...

Okay, I'm gonna... Oh, wait, two more things. Tequila or vodka? tequila if I'm going out at night because it's an upper and vodka if I'd like to go to sleep and wake up at 3 in the morning. Okay. But like Desert Island.

What are you doing? What do you bring in? Tequila. Well, I guess I'm going to need the energy on it. Oh. So, tequila. And lemon. I drink lemon in my drinks.

Far. It's delicious. Refreshing. I'd say vodka, but I've, um, I've left the limit my drink came. I've only picked behind the bars, but she slowed it down, slowed the

drinking down. Oh, damn. The almost halt. Okay. One other thing, beach or mountains? Beach. I, like a mountain on the beach? That's a good one. Oh, like big survives.

Like, why either or? Or like Barcelona. Barcelona. Barcelona is a sea. There's mountains. It's mountainous. Barthalona looks kind of like L.A.

Or the shop, kind of, right? If the shell, you can climb. Right. You know? Okay, Oli, you want to ask the last one? Two-parter. Two-part question.

So, if there is one thing that you could alleviate from your sister to make her life easier, what would that be? And then the flip of that is, if there was something that you could take from her, that you could make, that you could take

for yourself, something that you admire that you wish that you had, what would that be? It's a very, very deep question that needs a minute. I can give my sister more hours in the day. My sister does a lot. She has three kids. She wakes up at the crack of dawn and is on TV. So not alleviate, but I wish I could give you more time. I would love more time.

Thank you, Sissy. What I would alleviate, because sometimes you have a hard time sleeping. And it was my power as low. Can you hear, see me? Yeah. What I would take away, what I would give, take away from her is the ability not to sleep well. Because sometimes she doesn't sleep well. And that way messes with her.

I would love that. I love sleep. It's one of life's great joys. And then what would you take? Like if there's something that you wish you had for yourself that your sister possesses. Oh, I know. It doesn't really come into play now in my midlife. but I wish that I could have taken her SAT score

and also her ability to do math as a child because she missed one problem or two problems on her math SAT. Wow. Oh, my God. If I could have taken that little part of her brain. I'm good at a standardized test. Yeah. I mean, I haven't taken one in years,

but I was good at them. I no longer need that, but that would have come in handy before. I will take my sister's ability new upcoming ability to sing. Great. Her hobby. That is such bullshit.

Come up with some clarity hat. I'm fine. You're about to have it. Well, and it's not actually in the works, but okay. Barbara, that was a very asshole-y answer. See, I can't. The other thing that I would take is your energy. I think you have good energy.

I do. No, thank you. Okay. Perfect. This is great. Settled. Perfect. You guys, so happy to talk and chat. I'm glad you guys came on. Thanks for having us.

Yeah. Super fun. And I hope to see you soon. All right, guys. All right, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Let's go. See you later. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Allison Bresden. Editor is Josh Windish. Music by Mark Hudson, aka Uncle Mark. If you want to show us some love, rate the show.

and leave us a review. This show is powered by Simplecast. I find it so interesting that we are so quick to believe others' judgments of us and not our own judgment of ourselves. So according to this study, not being liked actually creates similar pain levels as real life physical pain. Learn more about the psychology of everyday life and of course, your 20s. This September, listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we really need another podcast with a condescending finance brof trying to tell us how to spend our own money? No, thank you. Instead, check out.

Brown Ambition. Each week, I, your host, Mandy Money, gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel uses, like on Fridays when I take your questions for the BAQA. Whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic workplace, I got you. Listen to Brown Ambition on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Jennifer I'm in the new season of the Overcomfort Podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable, and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time?

Join me for conversations about healing and growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Listen to the new season of the Overcomfort Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.