Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Mike and Joe Birbiglia

Episode Date: May 21, 2021

Mike and Joe Birbiglia sit down with Kate and Oliver for some free sibling therapy. They talk about their love of comedy, how Mike convinced Joe to quit his corporate job and come work with him, growing up in a family with four siblings, and more.Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver HudsonProduced by Allison BresnickEdited by Josh WindischMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is powered by Simplecast.This episode is sponsored by Coors Light (get.coorslight.com), Policy Genius (www.policygenius.com), Helix (www.helixsleep.com/sibling), and Article (www.article.com/sibling)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling reverie. No, no. Sibling reverie. Don't do that with your mouth. Sibling reverie. That's good.

So I loved meeting the burbiglias. Mike and Joe Barbiglia. Barbiglia. I wonder if that is how you... Everyone we interview on siblings is Italian. Everyone's Italian. I don't understand. We're all weirdly Italian.

Is it like... I don't know. They were Mike and Joe. Just, you know, brothers who work together too, which can be tricky, but they seem to have figured out how to navigate it. We've also interviewed a lot of siblings that work together, and it seems to be more common than not. It was fun watching them, too, on the screens, you know, because, you know, you've got the

artist that you can just look at and tell and then you almost have the investment banker looking guy who you know has the suit on or the thing and and he deals with the business aspect of things although he's an amazingly funny writer as well yeah you could tell you know he's definitely very witty you know joe yeah i mean he wrote satire that's like what he did in school yeah joe um mike ended up being the stand-up comedian, but Joe, I mean, you know, he saw the world clearly at a young age as a satire. So they seem like a really good match, even though he's a little more linear and has more structure.

But I really enjoyed learning about their life. They both interned for Conan. We had a love fest on Conan for a bit. They grew up in Massachusetts, four siblings, and Mike's podcast is called Working It Out. I'm sure some people have heard it. If not, it's really great. He's great. And yeah, they've worked together for over a decade.

They're just worker bees, too. They're prolific. You know, they're just constantly planning. You know, that's what's interesting too about Mike and Joe, right? Right. They're planning for the future. It's like they have things. They invited us to something, you know, like a year and a half out number at the end.

You're like, hey, by the way, I'm going to put you on the list. In 2024, we're going to be in, and I'm like, oh, great. I'm like, 2020. Wait, what? 204. No, Mike, I'm kidding. It's 2023. But he gets the exaggeration.

He's a comedian. He knows the embellishment has to be there to make the joke better. We live for embellishment. I also, you know what I loved about this? And I just, you know, he talked about his wife that she's a poet. And I kind of got this visual of them just being like this super creative team that really like enjoys living in that space and doesn't really care to be in any way linear. And it was so nice that Joe, you know, how Joe kind of talked about how he is a part of the

marriage. Right. Because he's that, he's the more linear, you know. But I really loved hearing that. So it kind of made me, I hope I get to meet her one day too. But yeah, I mean, enjoy. Mike and Joe... Barbiglia.

Guys, I'm so happy when I was reading up on everything. I was like, you guys sound like a lot of fun. And your parents sound like really interesting. I mean, it definitely, at least from the research we did informs a lot of how you guys, I think, ended up doing what you're doing. yeah i think uh yeah my parents are shocked uh that you know my dad's a doctor our dad's a doctor

our mom's a nurse and both retired and uh were completely shocked that i wanted to be a comedian i'm five i'm about five years younger than joe joe sort of ran interference with my parents so that they wouldn't disown me yeah in the period between when i was age 18 and about 24. He was like a distraction, like a lure, like, look over here, look over here. Don't look at my brother. Don't look at my brother.

Don't look at my brother. Honestly, that was a lot of the dynamic because my, I mean, my dad, Joe, correct me if I'm wrong, I think at certain points it was pretty mad that I was going to become a comedian. He was frustrated. He kept kind of framing it with me

that it was setting a good groundwork for a career in advertising or some other, like, a normal job, right? So I had to sit our dad down and say to him, you know, Mike's got some momentum here in his early 20s. You know, I realize he makes $100 a week, but he's one of the more successful 22, 23-year-old comedians. And my dad is very practical. And I said, let's look at the income of the top-performing 30-year-old and 40-year-old and 50-year-old comedians. Like, why don't you want to go with this? Have some patience. Where are you guys now?

So I'm in New York. Joe is in Rhode Island. And we work together full time with an office in Brooklyn and an office in Rhode Island, which is hilarious because that was pre-pandemic and post-podemic. So we've been doing remote forever. Oh, wow. We basically, we produce everything we do. My theater shows, my specials, my movies, like soup to nuts, basically, in these offices. And we've been working together for 15 years. Mike is sort of the nutty one who told

me to quit my corporate job, my grown-up job, and come join him at the circus. And so it's been working for a second. Well, well, get into that. Get into that for a second. Get into that. So your brother was like, hey, bud, like, fuck stability, okay? Come over here and just let's let's find some anxiety. I mean, what, how did that work out? How did you talk him into this? Well, Joe, Joe actually knows his story better than I do because he told it to me recently. I was like, oh, yeah, I guess that is how it happened. Joe, what was that?

It was in Indianapolis, right? Absolutely. So what had happened is Mike and I both have a real love of comedy writing and comedy, but Mike has a real performance background. He really was into that in college. I'm delusional. I'm delusional, yes.

Sounds about. I had a real writing background and comedy writing, print for print and silly satirical magazines and things. And so when I was in New York and unable to land a spot writing for Letterman or Conan, like if you don't get one of these 25 jobs in New York City, you still have to pay your rent. So I was, I'm the more sensible brother. I went and worked as a copywriter like my dad would have liked.

And also I worked as a writer at Pfizer, writing speeches, inventing vaccines, things like this. Are you serious? No. I'm really gullible. I'll believe anything. No, but I was writing about Lipitor and Viagra and speeches. and sales, you know, sales messages, things like this. So my favorite drugs.

While Mike was developing, you know, performing more and more and picking up some steam, and finally, he said to me, I would coordinate my Pfizer trips to meet with sales reps with his tour schedule. So he had to play in Indianapolis. I would book us, I would book the meeting to join the group, the sales group in Indianapolis, fly in, meet him at the club. We'd look at, watch the set together, or watch his set. And finally, he said, he took me to lunch and he said, Joe, I need you to quit your pretty lucrative job at Pfizer.

Come work for me. This is true. And at the time, like, in hindsight, it's like, oh, that was completely lunacy and not going to work. But at the same time, you know, I believe that Mike, my wife was on board. I talked to her into it. And, yeah. Did you have to, did you have to like negotiate a salary? Right.

Do you have to negotiate a salary? Like, Mike, what are you going to pay me? And do I get a percentage of your business? Like, how do you, you know what I mean? Yeah, let's revisit that right now. Yeah, yeah. This siblings, sibling revelry can be part of the negotiation. That's right.

The contract is up. Part of it was that, honestly, I got, I think I'm not going to say what it was, but I got like a regional, like, advertising commercial campaign. pain that had like a lump sum amount of money that was like enough where I'm like I can pay you for a year with this lump sum thing and it was maybe not something I would have done and certainly not something I would do now. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God.

Okay, so where did you guys grow up? You're up in Shrewsbury Mass, which is outside. of Worcester which is Worcester to all the people who are from there Worcester Wistah

And Joe What's funny is Joe Joe took me to a comedy show when I was 16 Took me to see

Stephen Wright at the Cape Cod Melody tent Which believe it or not Is it's where my parents live And in Cape Cod And it's where

I'm performing there Later this summer Like in August I'm performing. performing at the melody tent where I saw Stephen Wright, but I had this thing where Joe was like, you got to see this guy Stephen Wright. He's this one-liner comedian, really cerebral thoughts.

Like, he's really far out. He's something of a comedy legend. And we saw him in front of, you know, 1,000, 2,000 people. And I really experienced it as an epiphany. Like, in this way that nothing in my life has been an epiphany moment the way that was. Because I often find, like, when people say they have an epiphany,

I'm just like, yeah. You know, like, I always say, like, there's never a moment. It's almost like always like a series of moments that you congeal in your brain as a single moment, but there never actually is a moment. But that actually was a moment. That was like a, holy cow, this guy's even right. Like, he's doing exactly what I would like to do. And I started jotting jokes in my notebook and I would bounce stuff off Joe.

And then when I was at Georgetown, I entered this competition, like the funniest person on campus contest when I was a sophomore. And then I won. and then I ended up, like, working at the door of this comedy club for four years. How cool. You went to Georgia. My brother went to Georgetown. Oh, my God. I feel like I remember that because I remember there being murmurings of your dad being at graduation.

Like that. When you grew up in a place like Shrewsbury, first of all, when you grew up in a place like Shrewsbury, no one is famous ever. You've never met anyone famous. The most famous person you will ever meet is like Chet Curtis from the news. From, like, Channel 5 News. You're like, oh, my God, Chet Curtis is here from CVB, Boston. That would be a huge deal. Yeah.

And then you go, you know, you go to college, and you're like, Kurt Russell was at the graduation. And you go, like, what the fuck? Are you serious? Like, the actual guy? You're like, yeah, yeah, the actual fucking guy, you know. What were you going to Georgetown for? That's what our dad wanted to know. Right.

for writing in English. I mean, I was a writer since I was a kid. And I actually didn't think I was going to perform, but it was only when I went to Georgetown. I was trying to write sketch comedy. A sketch comedy group didn't exist. And so I, so there was a stand-up comedy competition, and I entered, and then I was like, oh, okay, yeah.

Yeah, I'm pretty good at this. Did you find that when you first got up there that you didn't know what the hell you were doing, like that it was more of like a stream of consciousness versus actually writing a joke? Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, it was, I mean, it was garbage in hindsight. But, yeah, I mean, I'd say the first year or two of what I was doing was, you know,

jotting down a series of observations and thoughts. And then in real time on stage, realizing they're not working and then doing something else. And so, and then over time, you start to realize, oh, yeah, okay. So the writing process is more, you know, it works better like this. And, and I would just start to write like setups and punchlines. Like I remember like the first joke I ever wrote that actually made it into something like filmed was like I wrote a joke. I was living with my girlfriend in college. And I said, I wrote this joke, which was very premature of me to write this joke. I said, I'm living with. with my girlfriend, and I go, she's getting to the age where she's thinking about having

kids, which is exciting because we're going to have to break up. And I say, I don't want to have kids until I'm sure that nothing else good can happen in my life. Of course, I wrote that when I was 20. I mean, it's so silly. It's a great joke, though. Nice. I mean, it's ahead of its time in a sense. Like, you were, you were projecting, I guess. I was projecting out, and then it made it into my first movie sleepwalk with me. And actually, it made it about 10 years, that joke. Yeah. But what was your very first joke that you wrote?

It had to be when you were young. I remember one of the first jokes I ever wrote was like, you know, this is in the 90s. So I remember I go, I was watching the show politically incorrect. It was from the 90s, Bill Maher. Oh, my God. And Slash, the musician was talking about how there's too much. violence on television. His name is slash.

And that was the whole joke. Yeah. And it's like a lot of stuff like that where it's like it's cute, but there's not enough to build an hour around. Oh my God. How many siblings are there? I'm youngest of four. Joe's next.

Our sister Patty's next. And then our sister Gina is the oldest. and she, my sister Gina is 11 years older than me and in a lot of ways was a huge seminal influence in my life because she also loves comedy and she was an assistant at HBO when I moved to New York City and so like she would just like when I, like she would slip me like,

I don't know, VHS cassettes of like Mitch Hedberg comedy specials or David Tell comedy specials and things like that. And so it was really like, and I'm sure you both find this, but it's like so much of what makes you who you are is your influences of your older siblings and what they put in front of you. And so if you have a lot, no? Eh.

Not so much, no. I'm just kidding. Yes, I would know nothing about hip hop if it wasn't for my brother. Oh, interesting. Yeah, we were a big hip-hop. Oh, well, no, I mean, look, I've said this all the time. time, but Kate owes me her career.

Because of the way that I treated her, she had no choice but to fight and prove to the world and to me and to everyone that she was the shit and that she was going to out-succeed everyone and fucking crush it. And I am the reason.

I am the reason for that. Because were you discouraging? I wasn't discouraging. I was just an asshole. He was just everything. He was discouraging of my whole being. It was like, I gave me. But it's funny, because I'm looking at pictures. We always send each other pictures and stuff of when we're young.

And everyone, I'm holding you and kissing you. And, you know, like, maybe this is bullshit. Maybe I was really nice to you. And I was just being a normal brother. Terrible. But let's, this isn't about us. This is about you guys. And we have an analogous thing, though.

I think Joe was very cruel to me when I was young. What's your guys as, difference. He's five years older than me. Okay. So, but you still have enough time. Five to seven years is also kind of tough because you want to be doing other things and you're sort of made to play with your younger brother. So when you're older, you're like, oh, this is kind of, it could go that way too. Yeah, Joe, what's up? Why were you, what did you do with this man? I would push back a little bit on the being cruel. I mean, I think I push my, you know, you know how siblings are. And that's why I was, I was really excited to come on here because, like, my

sibling relationships with Mike and with our sisters are, you know, really some of the most important relationships in my life, and I think are so important. But, like, the role of siblings often is to keep your siblings in check, right? Like, their ego is getting too big. You pop it. You knock them down a peg. And I did that. I'm very familiar with it. So I did that with Mike, but now our relationship has to change because we have the internet to keep, you know, people's He goes in jail a couple of days. It's like, I was going to say,

now you have to build us back up. Exactly. The role has to change. Yeah, it doesn't need criticism. Go back, though, you know, just home life in mass,

as kids, as siblings, what that whole world looked like. What does mom do? She was a, she's a retired nurse and, and, you know,

raised four kids. Yeah. So she was raising you guys, but when she was younger, before she had you, she was a nurse. Absolutely. I think the advantage with being the third and fourth child is by the time your mom and dad get to you, they're a little exhausted. So I don't think we had the toughest rules. They were just sort of like, you know, I don't say we were free range children, but we could go play in the woods for four or five hours, come home for dinner kind of thing. Build forts, do whatever you want.

Would you say that, Mike? Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of, like, wandering in the cemetery, making fires in the woods that could have been a huge problem. Isn't it interesting how we don't have that as much anymore? Oliver and I had a very similar thing because we grew up in Colorado. There was so much freedom. Oh, God. And the amount of times that shit goes wrong and you have to figure it out and get home somehow.

And that is so important, and I think that's lost, honestly, as Katie was saying. That's Gen X. That's what we do. We know how to solve things, right? Yeah, I think so. Well, it's like the old school parents, parents are like, I used to walk six miles in the snow to get to the bus. When I walk with my wife, I drive her crazy because I walk so fast. And the reason I walk so fast is because as a child, I walk to school. I walked home from school. I walked to the store.

I basically walk anywhere. And it was just transportation. And so you become an adult and you're like, oh shit, I have to like calibrate my walking to like what other, how other adults walk. They didn't used to walk everywhere as transportation. That's so funny. I never thought of that. I'm a fast walker too. So you're Italian, right?

We are. We are. Yeah. So we could very well be related. You know, we're Sicilian. We're half Sicilian. Same. We're Sicilian also.

That's what I was listening to your episode. You talked about that. Yeah. Yeah. Was it a traditional Italian, like kind of New England Italian family? Or were you not very connected to the Italian roots? I was just thinking about this yesterday, Joe. I did not run this by you.

But in our childhood, I won't name names, in our vicinity, in our neighborhood, there would be rumblings. I was writing this in my journal yesterday, which is how the beginnings of how bits form is these crazy journal ramblings. But I have like a lot of memories of people saying that person's dad is in jail. He was in the mob.

Or that person or that guy's in the mob or whatever. And no one fact checked it. It was just this thing that was sort of out there. And Joe, do you recall this as a kid? There were some underpinnings of some organized crime in the town, for sure. It was probably our family. But, I mean, we could be rivals, you know. Yeah, there's a lot of murmurings.

There's a lot of murmurings. And then I, but I think that most of it tied to Worcester. I think Worcester had a significant amount of, of, uh, mafia. Kate, have you been to Sicily? I have, have you? I have. I traveled there with my sister Patty when we, when I was in college. Went to Palermo and Agrigento, and we loved it.

What part are you guys from? Do you know? So, yes, it's a town outside of Agrigento called Brugio. And actually, it's funny, the Sicilians, they're often, like, swindled, and there's a lot of things happen. So we tried, I spoke some Italian in college. I tried to call our relatives, and I did call our relatives and asked if we could come over, and it was just like a hard no. It was kind of like They were very suspicious

Yeah But we had a wonderful time In Agrigento and Palermo I went there And I went to the beach And I saw a thousand Oliver's in Speedos That's very funny I was like okay well there is my brother

There is my brother That's what my mom always says about When she goes to when she's been to Ireland She looks around and she sees me She's like, oh, that's Michael. That's Michael. Yeah, yeah. Well, we're half Scottish and Irish slash Scottish as well.

Yeah, I definitely put you in kiltz, definitely. When Joe was, so when Joe was in college, he did a year abroad, and he lives in Florence. And so we took a family trip when I was in high school to Florence, Rome, and Venice. And I'd never been out of the country. And I couldn't have been less interested in being there. I was like, I want to be back in high school. My life is in high school, in America, at the mall, you know. And I remember that I was so tired from the whole thing that we went to the Vatican City.

And the Sistine Chapel. Yeah. And I, I'm not kidding. I took a nap on the ground. And an Italian guard came over and had to wake me up and explain to me that actually you cannot take a nap on the ground. This is at the Sistine Chapel. To me, that's in a nutshell what teenagers care about.

You're at the Sistine Chapel. Take a nap on the floor. I was like, when I was a teenager in Europe, I was just trying to get into clubs. Oh. Yeah, that's what we did. My sister, Gina and I went to a place in Florence when we were visiting Joe called Space Electronic Discoteca. And at probably around three or four in the morning.

That's why I was so tired. This is the best. And it was the 90s. Asa Bass was just kicking off. Yeah, yeah. It was huge. And then, of course, we're doing all the dance moves from Pulp Fiction. It's the 90s.

And it was, yeah, we won, we won, you know, quote unquote, we won the dance contest at 3 in the morning. You win all these contests. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're just a contest winner. You're a contest winner. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think I want, is this a contest? You're winning.

No, Tony Hawk and Jimmy Kimmel are winning. Oh, yeah. Tony Hawk. That was so wonderful. Ollie. You're about to go tap the Rockies. Oh, my God. Can you like count the days?

Three weeks. I have about three or three and a half weeks. And the Rockies will officially be tapped. Oh. Oh, summertime, Colorado, Rockies, Coors Light. It's all happening. It's all happening. Can you drink Coors Light throughout the whole year?

Of course. An amazing Coors Light on like a snowy day up in the mountains. It's amazing. But summer is coming. It's time to mountain bike my ass off. I have a cooler in the back of my truck filled with ice cold, cores light, with the mountains that have turned blue. with a beer that is made to chill

I mean it doesn't get much better than this My mouth is watering as I am reading this It's cold loggered, cold filtered, cold packaged Literally made to chill I can't wait to drink I can't wait to drink my Coors Light And Coors Light guys this is what we choose When we need to unwind in the mountains

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PolicyGenius. When it comes to insurance, it's nice to get it right. Okay, so your sisters, you've got an 11-year-older sister. So you guys are pretty spread out. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of kids, a lot of, I mean, I know what it's like to have kids that are really spaced apart. Was she kind of pulling her hair out a little bit? I don't remember my parents being around that much.

They weren't around. Okay, okay. No, I mean, I think by Joe's saying, Joe's saying this about, by the time they, you know, Joe came around, they were tired. By the time I came around, I feel like they were just like, they clocked out of parenting. Like, and it, which actually was fine. I think it's good. But, you know, my mom, you know, my mom was a great, she's a great mom.

But, but, but, uh, yeah, I, I don't think that, I don't know. For me, it was, yeah, my mom was around a bit. my dad was just at work and my dad in his free time when I was a teenager went and got his law degree yeah even though he was already a doctor and if if anyone wants to know how to avoid their own children it's uh be a doctor full time and in your free time get a law degree at night wow what an overachiever he really that's pretty amazing and that means an over-evoider of of pairing. Hold on. Hold on one second. That being said, Mike is very much his father's son, right?

He's nonstop, always adding more things to his plate. Let's do this. Let's write a book. I remember Mike early on in his career was just like, they make it impossible to take a to tape a sitcom and tour and like, like, you'll pile on the things because they make it impossible because it all happens in March and April. It's like, yeah, those are multiple jobs. Like, you can't. There are only so many months. They make it impossible. Well, okay, now I need to know. When's your birthdays? Oh, June 20th. And I'm like you. I'm like you.

I'm April. Oh, you're in Aries. Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, interesting. What was the sibling dynamic like that it was so spaced apart? You know, I mean, it was like one was leaving and then the other one's sort of coming and, you know, was there cohesion there? Were there, you know, were two closer than other?

and how did that whole dynamic work? Yeah. It's a close call. I mean, I, one dynamic was that my, my sister Gina was 11 years older than me. So in some ways, she was like my second mom. Yeah, mini mom. Like, mini mom. And, and, and then Patty, I don't know.

I didn't see a lot of Patty when she was in high school. Like she was off doing like student government things and like she was an overachiever. And then, but then Joe, I feel like, I feel like, like the dynamic with me and Joe is that Joe taught me how to do a lot of things. He taught me how to play soccer. He taught me, you know, how to write satire comedy, you know, like all this kind of stuff. And so I was always trying to follow in Joe's footsteps. And then how that sort of manifested itself was that by the time I, you know, was 19, 20 years old, I was performing on stage because I had, I'm convinced, and I say this in Sleepwalk with me, and I've said it

before, but it's like, I can't wait to get to that part. To be a performer, you have to be a little bit delusional. You have to convince yourself it's going well when it's not going well. Otherwise, you just wouldn't do it again early on, because early on, you're just not that good. And I think that that's one of the big differences that Joe and I have. Joe doesn't have that thing. He He doesn't have the thing in him that's delusional that's like, this is going well when it's not. Joe, do you tell him? No, so I'll get you a perfect example. Early on, early on, I met Mike in New York when I still was in corporate America.

I still dressed like I'm in corporate America. I was going to say you got Pfizer written all over you. So early on, Mike is performing. I'm in the corporate world, but I'm seeing Mike at his shows as he's trying to pick up some steam. and I go see him in a hotel lobby on like 17th Street in Manhattan. And it's funny because there have to be, you know, four or five comedians. And actually, I remember Demetri Martin was one of the comedians. And there were about 11 audience members, okay?

So almost as many audience members as comedians. And the set does not go well. Mike's running his usual stuff. This is many, you know, 17, 18 years ago. And I'm like, oh, wow, I'm really going to have to cheer this guy up afterwards. and encourage him. And we get out on the sidewalk. I've never heard this story.

We get out of sidewalk and he's just like, well, this went well, this is going to work. This is perfect. I'm like, what audience were you watching? I was not watching during that set. And he was right. What show were you in? Yeah.

But but are you, but you're okay saying to my, hey, it wasn't good. Like you have to understand. I was not going to say that. And I would have said that. No, I was going to. to try to help his ego and just be positive.

But I didn't need to be positive because he was already so delusional about the set. But can you be up front and straight up and honest with him and just tell him point blank, dude, you're a really funny guy, but this is, that did not work. Just generally, can you have that conversation? Now in 2021, in 2021. Sure. Yeah, you got to pick your spots and, you know, give feedback in the right way. And when he wants feedback, something.

work. So it's better to tell him what's working, right? And then you push and put what you say, Mike, would you want Joe to tell you? I mean, would you want him to be straight up with you? Or do you like the way he handles you? Well, I view feedback. I mean, so much of what I do is feedback, right? When you write and perform your own autobiographical work, you're hearing what the audience is saying, you're hearing what your brother's saying, you're hearing what your director's saying. And you sort of take in all the feedback and you have to look at it through the bias of where they're coming from. So like with Joe, for example, like, Joe is

Joe is airs Joe's extremely you know witty you know super smart like

has a great sense for story but he's also my brother and so like I reveal a lot of my shows are confessional

I'm talking about my parents I'm talking about my relationships with my ex girlfriend or this and it's like it cuts very close

to the bone like if you watch my shows it's like there's not that much that's so different from my journal

you know what I mean like it's it but it has jokes in it but it's also very personal and so i i have to know that joe one of joe's biases on his criticism is always like like he'll be like i'd pull back on saying that you know and it's like i have to be like you know i i i hear you i know you don't want me to say that as my brother but i'm just going to have to push ahead with it or get opinions from like my director that's fair or like ira glass or like other people who we work with because our dad will see the set and he won't complain to mike he'll call me.

Why do you say that? Why is he out there saying this thing? And I was just like, you know, you have Mike's number. I can put you through, you know. I can't control him. You're like the bumper. Is there anything off limits though, you know? I mean, is, do you, Mike, do you just let it fly?

Are there things like, well, no, I can't talk about that. Or Joe's saying, hey, bud, you know, I know you like to cut to the bone, but let's not say that. Well, typically I, Joe, if you notice, like, in my last special on Netflix, it's called the new one. It's all about deciding to have a child, even though I never want to have a child. And there's a point at which Joe's, I say, Joe, you know, what is it like, you know, having kids because he had two kids. And he has two kids. And he gets, you know, he gets this sort of glassy look in his eyes and he just says, it's relentless. and like that's a true thing that he said

but we do this thing where we if you notice in the shows we tend to err on the side of like Joe being a character who says a lot of the things that in a movie like a counselor character would say or like a best friend character would say and as a because we because Joe and I work through it together we know that he's comfortable with it I'm comfortable with it and that kind of thing

when it comes to other people who are like a third party to these things, I try to vet them through everybody, which sometimes gets me into trouble. Like, if I don't vet them, like on my podcast, working it out, I had David Sedaris on, and I told him this story about my sister,

my sisters, like, partying in high school. And then I get a call from Gina, and she's like, hey, my daughter is a teenager, and I don't really think that I want her to find out about me partying, like, on your podcast talking to David Sedaris. Oliver, you were asking, though, about, like, feedback. And one early one that really turned a little, this is a, I don't know if I've mentioned this to you in a while, Mike, it turns down to funny, is that 15 years ago, Mike and

a creative partner of his really wanted to produce a show about a comedy, sketch show set in prison, right? Oh, yeah. And I was just, like, not. feeling it like his pitches i was like you know the prison industrial complex and like the prison population is a very sensitive topic and like it's just not a great source for comedy you know it's not so i was i sort of shut down on it he takes the show to comedy central the pitch and they say mike we really want to work with you but we don't want that show you know but the other the strangest

twist though to the story is cut to 13 years later and genji calls him to be on orange is the new black Which is a show set in prison with comedic sensibilities and, you know, human, very human stories of that. So that's just a strange twist. Wow. Well, but that's the nature, I feel like, of our town anyway. It's like, you know, the good ideas are usually the ones that kind of, they're on the edge. And everyone's so scared to do, you know, anything that might, people might turn against them. And so they're very quick to say no.

until something comes along with someone that they feel like they can't say no too like Jenji who's just a genius I had that kid I had that with I had that with transparent like they called me about transparent and I was like and it wasn't the the script itself

that I didn't connect with it was um it's gonna be on the bookseller website right right I swear to God I was like it's gonna be on Amazon.com? I'm very busy.

I'm very busy. Oh my God, that's so funny. It's true, though. I mean, I get that, you know? It's like, what? Yeah. Yes. You talk a lot in your work about Catholicism

and growing up Catholic, and your mom, you kind of told this story about how your, your mom, how, why you, like, why you were like, no to religion. You know, I can't, I can't follow this. Yes. Based on your mom's experiences with it. Yeah, I tell this joke sometimes, or I told this joke in Sleepwalk with me, which is that I was an altar boy as a kid, and the answer is, no, I wasn't.

And I think it's because they knew I was a talker. I have that look about me. But I, I, my. experience with, I have two negative experiences with Catholicism. One is, of course, that, which is the abuse of the Catholic Church, which, um, you know, is extraordinarily well, uh, sort of documented in, uh, spotlight Tom McCarthy's film and which, which crushed me. I mean, that film just absolutely crushed me because I was lucky enough, uh, to, you know, just to not be assaulted, but, but statistically, I know that many people were around me.

And it was devastating to find that out, you know, to see that dramatized on the screen. And then the other thing is that, yeah, at a certain point, my mom said to me when she was sick at the time, unfortunately, you know, she got better that she was worried that she was going to go to hell. And I just thought, gosh, anything. And my mom is so extraordinarily generous and kind and Christian in the true sense of the word, which has been bastardized to some degree but is truly a Christian person and generous and giving and the idea that she would be think for a second

that she would be the person who would go to hell. To me, I was just like, I'm out, I'm out on this. Yeah, there's no, yeah, what's wrong with this sort of construct that my mom could ever think that she's going to go, yeah. Yeah, we were raised with quite a healthy dose of the Catholic guilt in Central Mass. We just were. And are your parents still religious and are your siblings religious?

My mom still is. My mom still goes to church. My dad, I think, would say that he is. I don't know what is. I'm not going to check his attendance record on Sundays. But, yeah, I don't know. I think, you know, and then the siblings, I think are maybe. Maybe a little less so, but, you know, to some degree, I'm pretty much, I'm pretty much out.

I'm pretty much out. You had five years left alone when your brother left. Five years apart in a school sense is a lot of years. So you're like in eighth grade, or seventh grade, and your brother's leaving, right? It was a little after that, but yeah. Was that just devastating to you? I mean, who did you have to run around with? And what was like, I mean, everybody was gone?

Yeah, that, I, you know, it's. so funny, Kate. I haven't thought about that in so long, but yeah, that was a strange thing. Joe went to Middlebury College in Vermont, and he became, like, completely immersed in writing for the college satire paper, which was called the Crampus, which is a parody of the campus. And, yeah, I think my high school became, gosh, when I think back on it, it just became so, I became so, tunnel visioned on succeeding enough in high school, in school enough to sort of whatever, get into a good college or whatever.

And I guess I never registered that, but high school was, high school was tough. I mean, I think about that, you know, my last show, the new one is all about like all the reasons I'd never want to have a child before I had a child. And one of them was just imagining having a child go through what I went through in high school, which is this extreme sense of like pressure and how am I going to do all of these things that are that people expect of me. And yeah, I just, I don't have like super fond memories of high school.

I've, I fonder memories of college, I think. I would have thought, I mean, I would think, but I guess maybe you didn't experience that, but that it would just feel a little lonely. that your family, yeah, that everybody was gone and in their college experience or out of college and working and... Yeah, I was just thinking about this the other days, but I don't have that many friends from high school.

I was going to say, Mike, I think, really threw him, but you also threw yourself into high school, you know, theatrical performances, soccer teams. Mike was a very good, strong tennis player. He was really, like, I like to tell my kids, like, that I want our family to be a family of doers. Like Mike and I and our siblings, we were like doers. We were like joiners.

We did things. We did up. We do better when we really fill up our schedules. So when you started performing, that was in college, not in high school. Yeah, although I did like little bit parts and plays in high school, basically because it was, the classes were easy. Right. Like the drama class in high school is the easiest. the easiest possible class.

Like, it's so unsubstantial. Oh, that backfired. Don't say that. That backfired. That backfired on me because in college, I went to Boulder for two years and then I was out of there. But my sophomore year, I was like, I'm going to take drama. And I'm just going to get an easy A or whatever.

I ended up getting like a D-minus. and it was crazy. I mean, we were rolling around on the floor and something called a small ball roll. Sure, there we go. It was so far from what drama was, at least in my head. Yeah. And I got a D-minus.

I became an actor a few years later. I got my first television show where I was the lead. I was like the star of it called My Guide to Becoming a Rock Star for the WB. I was in like Vanity Fair and I had all these articles and, you know, all the bullshit. I comprised the clippings I sent it to Boulder and said thanks for the D-minus Oh my gosh

Wow There's such a weird That's hilarious It is He wrote me back He was cool He was like congratulations Or whatever

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I don't know how you guys do it sometimes, you know. He does it. Part. Yeah. You know, it's like. But part of the reason that we even have our production company is that, like, I would say, what, 2008, 12 years ago, 13 years ago, I had a failed CBS sitcom pilot based on my life. It was like the untitled Mike Bribiglia project. And it was one of those things where, and I think there's even movies about this plot line, basically, which is like you bring your personal story.

to, like, a network in a studio, and then it churns through the machine of Hollywood. And then by the time the pilot is filmed, it's like someone else's life. And you're like, oh, I shouldn't be the Mike Berbiglia project because it should be someone else's name. Yeah. You're like, who am I?

Who am I? It's like Les Moon Vez's love interest is plain opposite Mike. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so then, like, and so then, In some ways, that doubled us down on our company because I came back from Hollywood and I was like, after living there for, what, two months or something, and just was like, oh, I'm never doing that again. Like, I'm never making a sitcom based on my life. I'm never doing anything where there's a studio or network involved with deciding what I'm, what my personal output is that's autobiographical. And actually, to this day, I would never do that.

Oh, really? You've stuck to that. oh yeah yeah so we've made our company has made two independent features sleepwalk with me and don't think twice we made four off broadway shows sleepwalk with me my girlfriend's boyfriend thank god for jokes and the new one which went to broadway two years ago and everything that we do is in-house because i had such a repulsive reaction to people creating a narrative for me because i was just like this is not worth it like i don't even want to be in show business and people are going to invent their own narrative for what my life is.

I always say, too, you know, it's also like the creative and the commerce don't really have a very good marriage. No. No. Oh, no. You know, and I think it's a very hard time for most standups right now because it's, there's such a pressure cooker of sensitivity. Yeah, there's something right now, which is odd, which is that standup already had the

feedback loop of getting feedback from an audience. Oh, okay, they don't like it. Let me try something else. etc. But now it has the added feedback loop of the internet and Twitter and social media in this way that like it's almost overwhelming for the art form because because actually like, you know, let's say 10 people tweet about something that they're angry about. Well, there's millions of people on Twitter. So, so the amount of people who are upset about that joke or this or that is point zero zero zero one. And in Nora, You know, when I started 20 years ago, you wouldn't clock 0.0001 of an audience reaction and go, well, I guess that's what I'll keep an eye. Yeah, yeah. And that's what George Carlin said something to that effect, which is like there's 300 million Americans or whatever. I only need to appeal to, you know, half a little percent, you know, to like to buy into what I'm doing, to have a clue.

Yeah. Oh, man. I used to. No, it's true. I used to run into George Carlin's at breakfast all the time and he'd sit there alone. I just stared, I'm like, I love, he's my favorite. I love him. It's so funny because you also, I heard you on Conan's podcast.

And, Kate, and it's so funny that you also run into Conan in your neighborhood. Yeah, yeah. Conan, I think, is one of the funniest people on the planet. Didn't you work with Conan? Joe and I both interned for Conan. Yeah, when we were in college at separate times, I was a control room intern and Joe was just a production intern. he's the best he he is so funny

like underrated sort of funny sneaky funny but not I mean he's just so fucking funny but before I want to get into this the you know anxiety and depression I know I'm bringing it down but I think it's important

and how when you started dealing with this how you decided to turn that into sort of art in a sense and then even now and moving forward sort of how that plays into your life and your career. I think one of the most momentous thing that occurred in terms of my mental health was that

when I was, I think about 25 years old, I had a sleepwalking incident that I made a movie about, I wrote a book about, but it's about how I sleepwalked through a second story window on tour in Walla Walla, Washington at a La Quinta Inn and La Quinta Inn. And it was an extraordinary thing to happen. I told it, you know, I told the story on This American Life, and that's sort of how I met Ira Glass, and he and I started working together as well. And it was, I don't know, it was just this thing where this really extraordinary thing happened because I had so much kind of bubbling up inside of me. And I wasn't dealing with, you know, something, you know, physiological, sleepwalking, but also psychological. to do with anxiety and it sort of crescendoed with jumping through this window and it became

the source of a lot of art and it sort of actually in some ways broke open my comfort in telling personal stories because at first I was like, well, I don't want to talk about this because people are going to think that I'm insane. I remember when it happened. I remember when I jumped through the window. I remember thinking, you know, I ended up in the emergency room. They put, you know, 33 stitches in my legs and my arms. And, and, you know, the glass, I went through it, like the Hulk. I mean, the glass was shattered and it was close to my, they took glass out of my legs at the emergency room, Walla Walla. And the doctor, you know, he was like, you know, you should be dead. And he goes, the glass was an inch from, you know, a centimeter from my femoral artery. And

And I would have bled out if I had hit there and just died, right? And as a writer, when something like that happens, there's a part of you that just goes, well, I'm going to talk about this eventually, either as me or it's going to be a character that does this or whatever it is. But it did take me like, I'd say probably six months to feel comfortable like saying, yeah, yeah, I'll throw this on stage and I'll see how this goes. Montreal Comedy Festival and there was a show called Confessing It was myself and Kathleen Madigan, Doug Stanhope and a handful of other comedians. And I told that story. I think it was the first time

I told that story on stage. And it was a really interesting experience because the audience wasn't just laughing. They were sort of enthralled with like what's going to happen next. You know, how does this story end? And that was like a huge, you know, pivotal moment for me because I was like, oh, I want to do this, which is tell stories more than I want to just tell jokes. Do you feel like talking about it and actually creating art from it helps just on a personal level dealing with depression and anxiety? I think so. I mean, it's certainly, I mean, it's funny because whenever you do autobiographical work, It's always straddling that line of like therapy versus art. I think that for me, it's easier to navigate that than other art forms because if they laugh, it's art.

If they don't laugh, it's therapy. I think that should be a quote. We need that. But it really is like this weird thing where it's like Joe and I really spend a lot of time making sure that there are jokes that punctuate the stories all throughout and it'll go, you know, it goes, you know, it goes very dark.

I talk about how I was once hit by a drunk driver in my car, you know, I jumped through a second story window, how I was, you know, how I never wanted to have a child. And then I had a child. I mean, these really sort of like dark thoughts, dark feelings. But I believe strongly about that

that's sort of where the best comedy the best comedy lies or at least I should say that's where my favorite comedy lies those are the comedians I like to watch it's a lot of calibration a lot of calibration because Mike will tell a very riveting story but then the

joke and the punchline sort of deflate tension right so it's like Mike's like inflating a balloon and then we pop in and so I don't know it's a fun exercise and Mike is you know Mike leads that siblings that work together what do you guys

think the other's superpower is as a team. Maybe you can start, Joe. I have a lot of answers, but maybe you start. Mike has a number of superpowers. You know, he's excellent performer, writer. He handles, I don't know, it's extremely ambitious. I don't, gosh. I guess what's the secret sauce?

You know what I mean? Like, how do you guys work well together? like what is it about the two of you as siblings because that can go that can go fucking south you know how do you maintain how do you here's how here's how i here's how i'd put it in a nutshell um i this is me in a nutshell well i i've never really had this question that's why it's actually like it's valuable for even for joan i to to talk out as an exercise therapy hopefully there's a this is free free time yeah uh hopefully we'll find some jokes in it. But I would describe myself as, I work seven days a week, 24 hours a day,

and it is all over the place. And anything can happen and I can spin out. And I think that Joe is five days a week and he's very focused and very effective. And I think that the combination of those two elements create something that work, just works for whatever reason. That makes sense. You're the structure, Joe. A little bit, yeah. I'm a little more balanced left brain, right brain. Joe and I had to have a discussion like probably five, six years ago where Joe goes, could you not email me over the weekend? Well, emails like that, right? Email and text, like when you're in a working capacity,

like, you need this now. Yeah. Boundaries, right? Yeah. I'm learning those now. I'm learning them now. It's tough. And what's your spin out?

What's your spin out moment? Like when you're just, what is this? It's just too much in your brain? There's just too much shit going on and you just, you're like, I can't deal. Yeah, it's sporadic, which is to say that, which is to say that I'm always writing or consuming or being a dad or doing whatever I'm doing. and then I my energy levels are not uh sometimes not focused so like I'll just be like working a mile minute and then I'm asleep on the couch you know what I mean like it's like I'm just gone you know and and that's hard you know like when I'm working as an actor like on billions or oranges the new

black I actually have to adopt more of what Joe has which is like a focus like you know when you got to hit your mark you got to hit your mark and know your lines like it's much more focused even when i'm directing a movie it's like much more focused what what about your wife like how did your wife deal with this oh she left she's no no she's around she's around i mean that's she's a she's a poet and and she and i we did a a book adaptation of the show um with a new one which is uh so with the subtitle is Painfully True Stories of a Reluctant Dad with poems by J. Hope Stein. And it sort of interweaves her poetry about the mother point of view of the same experience as the father point of view. And it interweaves. And it's, I think it's really lovely and we're very proud of it. But because she's a poet,

I think she 100% gets that side of it. I think poets have shared that in common with comedians. Poets and comedians are not all that dissimilar. Yeah. And so I feel like sometimes Jen and I need a Joe in our life to make sure that someone pays the electric bill so that I like to refer to myself as the adult in their marriage. Oh, this is perfect. You found the perfect partner. That's so great. Your accounts. You're the marriage.

And Joe, are you married? I am, yes. I'm almost 20 years. and I have two sons, 14 and 12. Okay, so you're like in the, you're like really in the teenage. I'm in the thick of it. Yeah. And, you know, at 14 and 12, now my children are sort of confused about my job.

Just like my dad, just like our dad. Oh, my God. What do you do all day? Are your parents better grandparents than they were kids? I mean, were to you kids? Well, you're parents, parents, yeah. 100%. So they're more present?

I think so. What do you think, Joe? They were at my house yesterday for Mother's Day. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They're very engaged. Especially once the, you know, I think parents and grandparents sometimes they have an age of the child where they lock in a little more, like that they relate to. It's like, yeah, you know, call me when you're 13 and we can talk about math or, you know,

something that's a little more sophisticated. Yeah. And I think I'm seeing that with my dad with my older son. He's getting more locked in now that, you know, he's in high school. It's more sophisticated things they can talk about. What about Mike when, you know, you have one kid, obviously you talk about sort of not wanting children and then wanting a kid or having a kid. Coming from, you know, a family with four siblings and how important a sibling relationship and dynamics are, are you at all interested in

creating another little being for your child to have a sibling? There's a line in the new one where I say, our daughter's name is Una, which means one as in we're only having one and yeah that's sort of where we're at yeah but she has a lot of friends she's very social she's a social animal like her yeah yeah she

loves loves other kids yeah I want to get to our speed round okay because this usually takes longer than just a speed round this is the second hour of our podcast it's never speedy

Okay, one word to describe the other. Sharp. Generous. So Mike said Joe is sharp and Joe said Mike is generous. One word to describe your relationship. Oddly close. I don't think, you're not allowed to say fraternal, are you? I would say, I would say, well, it's two words, but I would say positive friction.

That's a good one. I like that. Yeah, that's good. Positive friction is good. I like positive friction. It's like a name of a band. A book, a book, or a band. I'm going to go see positive friction.

Well, you know, but you know, there's this great book that I'll recommend by Adam Grant called Think Again. And it's all about how conflict, positive conflict in a work situation creates ultimately a better result. It's only when something that becomes personal conflict where you're taking personal attacks of the person, that it becomes negative. Yeah. Who's the biggest hypochondriac? I think me. I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think it might, yeah, it's true. Yeah, yeah. It was like at an 11th.

He was at an 11 during the pandemic. And I was like a 4 or 5. You know, safe. It's not even close. Joe was like, I'm going over to the YMCA pool. You want to come? I'm like, yeah, in 2027. Then I'm going to get Chipotle.

Then I'm going to live my life. You know, we're performers. Our body is our instrument and we don't want to have a long hauler tuba for the rest of our lives. That's right. That's right. Who gossips the most? Ooh. I think Joe does.

I think Joe does. I think me. I think me. You like a little bit of gossip? With the siblings? I have to lock Joe down sometimes because he gossips too much. I do. I've had some fumbles.

I'm not going to lie. Joe's had some fumbles over the years where I have to call him and be like, this got back to me that you said this. And it's kind of crazy. And, like, you shouldn't say that. So you're the one that, like, nobody really, like, they'll tell you if they know that they want everybody to know in the family. But really, if it's, yeah. The back channels.

It's all about back channels. The family back channel shit is so crazy. Oh, my God. It's so insane. It's so funny. It's important. In business and in family. What do you guys fight about the most if you were to pick something, like, that just causes the most.

Not money. Not money. No, really. That's true, it's true. I think it's the... Personalness of material, right, Joe? We don't really fight about that. We don't have a lot of fights.

Well, what about... We had one... We had one fight... Okay, we had one fight this winter over the virtual shows. Can I say this? Oh, yeah, it's funny. It's funny.

We were doing... we were doing virtual shows and but we did them in joe's office because it was the biggest office that we had and it had the most ability to have equipment you know we lit we did like a four camera shoot in joe's office and so we sort of took over his office and made it like a tv studio and um at one point um he had uh moved some sea stands or some things like that why did i do that Because it's your office. My job was to get a fully decorated set, painted a different color, and move everything back in the exact same spot, okay?

Which is why you mark it. That's why you got to mark it. This is a real fight. That's not that often to have a fight. It wasn't that big. Month ago. How long did the fight last? That was literally five minutes.

It was five minutes. Joe snapped at me. I understood why he was mad. I say, fuck off. There's a pandemic. I don't give a shit about your lighting kit that is off by three inches. Right. Right.

I love that. Yeah. But we got through that. We weathered that one. Who ends up apologizing more? I apologize much more than Joe. Joe, I think, has an apology policy that is like he doesn't like to apologize that much as a policy. And I am much more.

I apologize like 15 times in two minutes without even realizing I said I'm sorry. That's fair. I think that's one thing I learned though in corporate America was like an apology can be a sign of weakness in a business setting. So you want to be very careful with the apologies. The other person better really deserve that apology because I feel it's a little bit of weakness.

I don't know. Yeah. What do you guys think you stress out about most? Like what's the stressor in each other's in your life? I mean everything. Just everything all the time is so stressful. You mean in the business? In the business or?

Like the other night, for example, like I did my first outdoor show the other night in Connecticut and I had nightmares all night, which were classic actors nightmare, which is I'm on stage. I don't remember my jokes or stories. And that dream lasted as far as I could, it felt like it lasted 10 hours.

You were actually performing as you were dreaming. Yes. Exactly. I think our classic worry, or at least maybe mine is, because I'm like two kids, house in the suburbs, two dogs, is, you know, I've been working with Mike for 15 years. And how long can we keep these plates spinning? You know, it's a lot of fun.

You know, it's really cool. So, you know, we do a lot of long range planning, but it's entertainment. You can only plan so far. That's another corporate part of you. You're sort of like, you're thinking what's the end game? And artists is like, death. What do you mean?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what my whole new show is about, literally. That's funny. I have one funny story about when we were early on in Mike's career. I brainstormed this story today. I was trying to coach Mike on how to begin his career. He was opening. He was traveling around Columbus, Ohio, Cincinnati, opening, making like $250 a week.

And I said, Mike, what you can do is you can register in temp agencies in the various cities. So when you're there for the week, you can get some life filing, you know, get eight, hours, you know, book 30 hours of clerical work to pay your bills and then do comedy in the evening. And Mike says to me, he's like, Joe, that's the stupidest fucking idea I've ever heard. There's no way I'm doing that. And as soon as he said it, I was like, oh yeah, he's right. That is a stupid.

Yeah. Like, that's not what you do. No. Do you remember that conversation, boy? No, that's hilarious. I'm writing that down. That'll be in the next book. What is the most rebellious moment you had as kids?

Oh, I mean, this is, this puts me in the territory of getting in trouble with my sister Gina because she'll say, you shouldn't tell stories like this. Yeah. That my, my daughter and son can hear. I just think, like, the biggest thing for me is, like, thinking about how, like, I would tell my parents, like, I hate them. And I was, like, smoking pot, of doing all these things that, like, looking back, I'm like, that was very dangerous what I was doing, actually. Like, I remember, like, walking home. from a party that was on like an island where like I was like walking along the highway and I remit and I was like stoned and I remember seeing like a like a drunk driver almost like in a movie

just swerving back and forth like it's pitch dark and I'm just seeing the lights go swerve swerve and I literally I didn't know what to do I dove off the highway and tumbled down a hill tumbled down a hill and I lost my Birkenstock. I had Birkenstock and I look back and I go I'm so stupid like why would I do that so

the things we do when we're in high school they're so stupid and it scares me for my child you know. I have a great one which is about our other sibling is Patty. I visited Patty at 18 years old up at Colgate University

with a friend of mine went to rugby practice played rugby with a woman's rugby team, had the best time, sang songs, got extremely drunk. And then for some reason, they thought it would be fun to have a BB gun. Oh my gosh.

And my friend Seth and I aimed at a bar across the street all night long and shot at cars and the windows of this bar. Unbelievable. My sister gets arrested the next day. And my parents... Because she took the rap for it.

She took the rap for it. So I wouldn't have to drive five hours back to Hamilton, New York. And we... She never was at, I mean, she was kind of mad because she had to do like 100 hours of community service. But the fact that we're still quite tight today is... Oh, my God, she took the wrap for you.

Can I just say something? I would never have done that for Oliver. Never, ever. Ever? I would have been like, your... You know what? I don't care how long you go to jail. Okay, I am not making the wrap for you.

A hundred hours of community service. Jesus. Yeah. First celebrity crest. Oh wow I had so many I mean I'm trying to think of

what the age group was when I was even thinking about so yeah Hmm Joe what's yours I'm gonna say Winona Ryder

Oh that's a really good one Yeah that like Beetlejuice era Oh my God Oh my God Reality bites Reality bites I mean Yeah

Yeah. I used to love one on a ride or two. Yes, of course. Yeah, that's a really good one. I agree with Joe. I agree with Joe. Okay. So last but never least, Ollie, you want to ask the last questions? Sure. We ask this to everybody. So it's sort of a two-part question. The first part being, what is that thing that if you could alleviate from your brother, just to take away from their life. What would that be to make their life a little bit better? On the flip side of that,

what would you take from your brother that they have, that you wish that you had as part of who you have? Yeah, like, what would you want to emulate more of, you know? That's great. Well, first of all, the thing I would say, Mike, if you don't mind. No, go ahead. The thing I would definitely take away from Mike is some of his workload.

Like, I wish I could go on stage for him in some of these places because he put so much upon. on himself and I can't do that. So a lot of my job running the business is like, what can I take off his plate? And, you know, because I know he's work. He does work so hard. Yeah.

And then my first part for Joe, for Joe would be just, I would just alleviate the stress because a lot of times I feel like, like stress in terms of like the two year, the five year, the 10 year picture of everything. I'm always like, I always want to say like, Joe, like we'll be fine. Like we have like plan B, plan C, plan D. plan E like they're all fine yeah

plan E involves Las Vegas right I was going to say what's plan E and what's the other part of the question what would you like to emulate what would you a quality that your brother has

that you wish you had more of Joe has a Joe has a a thirst for for living sort of a balanced and fruitful, like exciting life as though it was, that's to the point of being artful.

He has an artful approach to his life, existence, and family. Hmm, cool. And Mike's thing that I wish I had is, I think his belief in himself to completely start a project, do the middle of the project, do the end of the project, sell the project, like, that determination is, you know, and self-belief is very admirable and functions at a very high level and is a testament to how, to the success of him and of our company. I love that. Oh, you guys, thanks for coming on and talking about your life with us. This is so fun. We love it.

We love it. Thank you, guys. Take care. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Allison Bresden. Editor is Josh Windish. Music by Mark Hudson, aka Uncle Mark. If you want to show us some love, rate the show and leave us a review.

This show is powered by Simplecast. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season.

Oh. Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on a special bestie club on a special bestie club. I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hi, it's Honey German, and I'm back with season two of my podcast. Grazias, come again. We got you when it comes to the latest in music and entertainment with interviews with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't auditioned in like over 25 years. Oh, wow.

That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We'll talk about all that's viral and trending, with a little bit of cheesement and a whole lot of laughs. And of course, the great bevadas you've come to expect. Listen to the new season of Dashes Come Again on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Do we really need another podcast with a condescending finance brof trying to tell us how to spend our own money? No thank you.

Instead, check out Brown Ambition. Each week, I, your host, Mandy Money, gives you real talk, real advice with a heavy dose of I feel uses. Like on Fridays, when I take your... questions for the BAQA. Whether you're trying to invest for your future, navigate a toxic workplace, I got you. Listen to Brown Ambition on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.