Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Relationship 101 with Dr. Warren Farrell

Episode Date: July 18, 2024

Oliver is joined by best-selling author Dr. Warren Farrell who has dedicated his life to exploring the differences between men and women.Can relationships really recover when they're full of resentment and anger?From partners who nag, to lovers with sad sex lives, he explains the real reasons so many couples just can't communicate.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece,

we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special. So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb. With the co-host feature, you can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host.

Hi, I'm Jennifer Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcomfit Podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable, and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? Join me for conversations about healing and growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Listen to the new season of the Overcomper podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever. you get your podcast. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex.

No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special Bestie and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Festi Club on the IHeart

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling rivalry. No, no. Sibling rivalry.

Don't do that with your mouth. That's good. Sibling, Reveory. That's good. Your eyes, light the heat. That's off the key. Anyway, I think that's Peter Gabriel,

starting off the podcast with that song, because we have Dr. Warren Farrell here, who is a relationship, expert, love expert. He's been in the game for a long, long, long, long time. this man is to be trusted with everything connection so he's in the waiting room right now but maybe we'll let him wait just a little bit keep dr warren on edge you know what i'm saying um but he has a new book out called role mate to soulmate it's out july 30th and he's going to give us some information,

uh, me about maintaining sibling relationships, love relationships, maybe even relationships with yourself, maybe even relationships with your pet. I don't know. Um,

but let's bring in Dr. Warren. I know he's been waiting. I'm a little bit late. Um, because I have any of ache. But we'll get into that later. Dr.

Warren. Well, thank you, man, for coming on. Um, I really appreciate it. I am looking very,

forward to being with you. I heard your podcast once and I love the way, I love your style. Oh, well, that's good. You're maybe one of a few. I don't know. We'll stay. I don't see how you feel at the end of this, right? Yes. No, but this is obviously a very interesting topic. To me, I've been in a 23 year, 23 year relationship, married for 18, not without its crazy bumps, you know, there's been infidelity, but we've always worked through it, gotten through it, tried to communicate as much as we can, and basically understood that there was something bigger at play, meaning the depth of our love and our connection sort of was worth it and at least we were willing to go through the fire to see if we can come out the other

side. Nice. Very good. Where it feels like today, people are so quick to throw everything away when there is some sort of an issue within the relationship, rather than trying to figure out the bigger picture and having more of a 30,000-foot view.

Absolutely. Yeah. And there's such a big difference because historically speaking, you married for security and you brought up many, many children and breaking up meant that you know, everything would be destroyed, and you had also social pressure against you, and your parents thought you were a failure, you thought you were a failure, your church

thought you were a failure. And so there are huge numbers of forces saying, you know, stick it out. And they served a purpose. But today, many people can support themselves, and there's a much different attitude, and the church doesn't interfere as much and isn't as powerful. And so people feel, well, all right, you know, I have a life to lead. And, you know, my husband or wife, was an unfaithful and there's absolutely no excuse for that and you know and i'm out of here which is better neither per se well because you know we don't want to be going back to survival mode again um and at the same time but what's happened is that no one knows how to handle personal criticism without becoming defensive so somebody does something quote wrong like has an affair

And then, and you just, you know, you're furious at somebody and you don't know how to set yourself up to hear other people's, your partner's perspective. Many times people go to therapists and oftentimes during the week, they are thinking to themselves, what can I say to help the therapist understand my perspective? So what they're doing is exactly the opposite of what they need to be doing during the week, which is reinforcing. their internal argument to get the therapist on their side. But the real, so I saw this happening with my couples, and I would say things in the workshops. I had these workshops that I call role mate to soulmate workshops that I started doing 30 years ago.

And I would advise people to not become defensive when they're confronted with personal criticism. I gave them all the rational reasons for it. And then I, but I started scheduling follow-up free group phone calls to ask what worked and what didn't work. And, you know, basically what happened was that my wisdom, so to speak, disappeared the second an argument, that a criticism appeared. So I started saying, you know, so much good that workshop was. And so I started looking at why that was the case and realized that historically and biologically, when you heard a criticism, you heard a potential enemy.

And it was functional to get up your defenses and even to kill the enemy before the enemy killed you. And so that was functional for survival, but it was just totally dysfunctional for love. So I asked myself, there was things like active listening, but active listening was only helping the person who was complaining to be heard, but it left the person listening with their defenses still. and then they had to repeat what their partner said so they had no defenses and then they had to repeat it so it felt like

double jeopardy and the findings was that active listening was almost never done without a therapist so that was my challenge and I asked myself is there a way to be able to handle criticism without becoming defensive and so

I started having I started creating a series of meditations that couples would do before they heard their partner's criticism. So before you, so the first thing that I would ask in the workshops is for everyone to sit back to back and to write down whether if their partner was about to be killed and they knew with a hundred percent certainty that they could save their life, but on the other hand they would have to potentially give up their life at a 50% level. Would

you do it if there were no children involved? And even though about a third of the people in my workshops were, you know, this was like their last straw in the relationship, even though about a third were in that category, 90% of the men said yes. Well, I gave them choices of yes, no, uncertain. Would you risk your life at a 50% level to save your partner's life if you knew 100% chance of doing it? And so 90% of the men and 80% of the women said they would do that if there were.

were no children involved. And so the first mindset that I have people do is to say, well, if I'm willing to die for my partner, the least I can do is listen to my partner. It's great. It's really great that you're putting it into a larger perspective here, you know. I love how you break it down, too, because, you know, there are so many books, ideas about relationships and how to make them better and communication you hear all the buzzwords but what you're doing is breaking some of these things down to their primal level which i think is really interesting because

right before you went into it i was going to ask the question which you answered which is why biologically are we do we get defensive when we're criticized but you answered it from a from a survival perspective and i think when you get deeper into some of these reasons why rather than just being sort of on the surface and trying to understand them from a primal place, it really, really puts them into, you know, a great perspective and allows you to sort of understand yourself a little bit better, you know? It does increase your compassion for your propensity for the defense of the sure. However, it doesn't really do any good, just learning that intellectually.

When criticism appears, your wisdom disappears. And so what I have, what I have, what the book is about and the workshop is about is getting people to practice all these mindset. So I have them set aside just one time during the week that I call a caring

and sharing session. And during this caring and sharing session they, before they hear their partners, only one criticism that they're allowed to share during the week, they meditate into this altered state. And it's that

I have six meditations that the workshops have been doing for 30 years, but I've been constantly changing them to find out which meditations work the best. And they have to read each meditation out loud and say it in their own words so that their partner knows that they are preparing themselves to feel safe. And so like one of the other meditations is what I call the love guarantee. So the love guarantee is if I provide a safe environment for you to be able to say anything you want and whether it's exaggerated, whether I consider it a lie, whether it's in a bad tone of voice that I would normally respond to, if I provide a safe environment for you to say anything

you want, you will feel safer with me, therefore more secure with me, therefore more loved by me and therefore you will love me more. Let me ask a question with that because, you know, I've always had issues with being vulnerable. Not that I don't say what I feel, which I do. With certain people with my children, vulnerability is very easy. With women, strangely, it's been tough with my mom, my sister, and my wife, which, you know, I've worked on it and gotten better. I went to this place called the Hoffman Institute, which really helped me out a lot.

So moving back into that exercise, that meditation, do you find that it's easier for women to open up and to sort of allow themselves to surrender to that experience? Because men sometimes feel like, this is weird or I can't do this. Like, this isn't, you know what I mean? Is it harder to break men down? It is. Yes and no. So like in one of my last workshops, there were three men who were older men, and they just were not able to do this exercise for a while.

And so as I went up and talked to them, all three had something in common, which is that every time they mentioned any criticism whatsoever, that they didn't even call a criticism, they called it a concern. But their wife experienced it as a criticism. there was no sex, there was emotional withdrawal, there was all sorts of punishments that each of these men experienced. And so the part of the way we're biologically trained is that we as men are expected to protect women. And when women feel criticized by us, they have a number of tools that they, without, you know, being purposely this way, they will tend to withdraw and the men just say to themselves after a while, it's not worth bringing it up. I'll just, keep it to myself. And so the propensity of men already to not express any feelings is reinforced

by the punishment they experience when they do express feelings. Is that a biological thing? Is that a primal thing where men are less expressive? We learned as guys that if we start talking about our weaknesses and our vulnerabilities, two things will happen. If we talk about them to women, the women will lose respect for us. And so if there's weakness, there's no love. Unless the man has very thoroughly proven to the woman that he's a sort of Superman, Lois Lane had no interest in Clark Kent. But the moment she found out that Clark Kent was Superman, she had an interest in.

And then she congratulated herself for teaching Clark Kent how to cry. But she was only interested in the Clark Kent that became the Superman. I've never even thought about that. That movie's that's bullshit. That's fucked up. She hated the nerd and wanted the Superman. I mean, it's the same guy with different powers. Yeah. September always feels like the start of something new, whether it's back to school, new projects, or just a fresh season. It's the perfect time to start dreaming about your next adventure. I love that feeling of possibility, thinking about where to go next, what kind of place will stay in, and how to make it feel like home. I'm already imagining the kind of Airbnb

that would make the trip unforgettable, somewhere with charm, character, and a little local flavor. If you're planning to be away this September, why not consider hosting your home on Airbnb while you're gone? Your home could be the highlight of someone else's trip, a cozy place to land, a space that helps them feel like a local. And with Airbnb's co-host feature, you can hire a local co-host to help with everything from managing bookings to making sure your home is guest ready. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. Hi, I'm Jennifer Lopez. And in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just

devote myself and my time. I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happens in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen.

Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to you. to the new season of the Overcumper podcast as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I had this, like, overwhelming sensation that I had to call it right then.

And I just hit call. I said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick. I'm the CEO of One Tribe Foundation, and I just want to call on and let her know there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling. And there is help out there. The Good Stuff Podcast, Season 2,

takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a non-profit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month, so join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. I was married to a combat army veteran, and he actually took his own life to suicide. One Tribe saved my life twice.

There's a lot of love that flows through this place, and it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. Don't have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a React mission. I ended up having amputation below the needs. knee of my right leg and the traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff.

Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It's so interesting because nowadays in 2024, there's this narrative that, you know, amongst men especially, you know, I'm maybe I'm speaking generally, but I think there is it. that vulnerability is now power, you know, vulnerability is, is almost masculine now, or it's sexy, it's attractive. So in your 30-plus years of doing this, you've really gotten a close look on the evolution of female and male, I guess. Have you seen it shift and move throughout the years and change from one place to when you started to where you are now? there's certainly more permission for men to be vulnerable. However, that doesn't often translate into a woman being more interested. It doesn't. It does not often because women are fighting

their propensity to be attracted to men who are strong. However, in a way in the workshop, none of this makes any difference. I'm teaching everyone gay couples and straight couples all have the same problem. They all feel that when they're criticized, they become defensive. Because if you love somebody, you're vulnerable. And the last person in the world that you want to criticize you is the person you love the most. And so in a sense, the more fearful you are, the more it suggests the degree of love you have. Somebody in the plane criticizes me, no big deal. But if my wife criticizes me who I love deeply, that really stinks. And so I do have to prepare myself before with these mindsets. So two things happen. One is I can fully hear everything she is saying. And then I

ask her, of course, if I've distorted anything. I tell her what I've heard her say. I asked if I've distorted anything. And then she clarifies if she feels I've distorted something, I keep working on it until she says that's exactly what I meant. And then I ask her, did I miss anything? And she goes, yes, you missed this. And even if I felt I covered that, I keep working at it until she feels that that's not missed any longer. And then I ask her, now that she knows she's in a safe environment, I ask her, is there

anything new that you'd like to add? Because oftentimes something new feels safe to her. or the person you're communicating with only after she knows she's safe expressing the other things and then when she thinks about what I'd like to add she often discovers things

that she didn't even know she was thinking because she hadn't gone that far in her thinking because she didn't feel it was worthwhile going that far because she didn't feel I would hear it to begin with and so and this as I said makes no difference whether it's straight or gay couples everybody when they're when they love

love somebody, feels vulnerable, and they have to prepare themselves before they hear what their partner has to say. Yeah, because also, but I mean, when you're in your workshops, like, aren't there layers? Because every individual has their own psychology that they have to get through in order to maybe get to the place that you want them to get to, you know, abandonment issues or, you know, they've been whatever it is where it's hard to express myself because of my own childhood and my own psychology so everyone probably is at different levels and their ability to go there so how do you how do you deal with that because it's such an individual on an individual basis you know you are

you keep being there for whatever level they wish to go to so what i'm hearing when the person who's listening is hearing their partners speak, it may be very irrational that they care so much about money when they have plenty, or they care so much about the fact that you stayed away an hour later, and that taps into their abandonment issues because the last time their husband or their wife stayed away later, it was actually a sign of their setting up for an affair. And so all that is triggered. And so what you're doing as you're listening to your partner is you're not worrying as the listener about whether this is rational or not. You're sitting there for your partner's feelings no matter where they go,

no matter what the distortion level is, no matter what the anger level is. Now, interestingly, the anger level is usually much, much less than it normally would be because the partner is knowing that they're going to be heard. and as soon as you start knowing that your anger dissipates because anger is basically vulnerability's mask

anger is a shouting out saying I am angry about this but if you ask a different question and say what is the vulnerability and part of what I train the couples to do is to be able to see that behind that anger is vulnerability almost invariably

and so when you're hearing your partner exaggerate something that comes from an abandonment issue or whatever historical issue with your father, then you, the person talking, the person who's working on maybe a distorted version of reality knows that she or he's going to be safe airing that and that you're not going to be criticizing him or her in your mind's eye. That's so powerful. And so the normal thing that we do when we're being criticized is we don't listen, we self-listen. We listen to our arguments that we have in response to that, like a lawyer would. And the partner who's sharing their concern feels the energy shift.

So I don't let people take notes when they're listening to their partner because I want them completely focused on and empathetic with their partner's perspective. And when their partner at the end is sharing what their perspective is without distortion or missing anything and permission to add things, it's like almost everyone says, I've mentioned this issue a dozen times before, maybe a hundred times. I just never felt really heard and never felt safe airing these things. And that feeling is one of such enormous being seen by the person you love and knowing that instead of walking on eggshells before you bring something up, the only thing you have to do is have this caring and sharing time on your calendar. And you know that each week you'll have a chance to share the one thing that bothers you the most.

And your partner knows that there's not going to be a whole bunch of things thrown at him or her. right it's just one thing that they're going to share and then i set up um in the in the in the book i teach people how to um set up the um a conflict free zone for the other 166 hours a week um and teach them what to do to be able to uh if if criticism comes up during the week how to handle it what to do with it that type of thing yeah i think them i think what you said has resonated with me uh because it's you know i mean i've been in therapy cognitive behavioral therapy forever you know so i i i I feel like I've been in so much therapy. I'm a therapist without actually having a degree.

But what I love is, which makes most sense to me, which is sort of what we try to practice in my relationship and friendships and everything else, which I want to get into as well, which is it doesn't have to be rational to you because it's how they feel. Yes. So you can't project your ideas on that feeling. It's not fair. you know so if you can come at it from that place then it's not hurting you or seems to be it doesn't seem to be a criticism it's like okay well this is the way that they feel right now and I need to

respect that even though in my mind it's irrational and maybe even in their mind it is but in that moment it's a real feeling it's not a fake feeling it's real so that needs to be taken into account that is like extremely important because if you can get to that place then defensiveness kind of melts away a little bit yes you know and it's less self it's less selfish and you're you're looking at someone you know and understanding that it's their issue and it's not yours essentially kind of what i went through with hoffman and dealing with you know childhood patterns and how they've sort of been passed down through generations, essentially, and how to break some of these patterns, you know, especially with my dad who wasn't there. And now we have a, you know,

a blossoming relationship right now, which is nice, a million years later. But when you look back at him, how can I be upset when his childhood was fucked up? When his dad, my grandfather, left him. He didn't have the tools, you know, so when you can find the compassion in that and not make it personal there's such a weight that gets lifted off you know it certainly is and it's also important that when you're communicating with your dad or your wife or husband um that you're that that you that you know that you will also have time to to present your perspective and that their job will be to completely um get into the mindsets of if i would die for you um you know i will at least I can do is listen, here's the love guarantee and the four other mindsets that I ask

each person to go through before they listen. So you will have a chance. You have to know that you will have a chance to present your perspective, which may be differently irrational. Right, right. You're both crazy. That should be the name of your next book. We're both crazy. What about sex? You know, because it's extremely important. to me in my relationship and same with my wife, you know, obviously it varies, but I feel that is sort of the consummation, you know, I mean, that's how I express love and feel love is touch and, you know, coming together that way. It's different for other people, but how important is sex in a relationship, in a marriage? Well, it's important for two reasons. One, it just

feels great and it came out and it's meant to connect you. And number two, It's also important as a statement of what's really going on that's preventing sex from being really powerful. So one of the things I ask people to do before they go to the Rolemaid to Soulmate Workshop is to reserve an extra day after the workshop because, like, let's say they go down to Esselin and Big Sur. and they um and to it's from friday to monday but i say try to mark off tuesday because basically the workshop is foreplay when you get the issues so true yes when you get the issues so true real quick sorry to interrupt but like when my wife and i were going through couples therapy it's like you come out of it when it's a good session and you just want to like get down in the car you're like oh my god you're everyone we were so open and clear and it's it's it's it's sexy to you know what i mean

it's interesting being heard and being seen is sexy and many couples where the sex life has sort of evaporated don't realize that that's that it's that it's not just the sex life having evaporated and maybe and maybe there are things like you know menopause or other things that are that are inhibiting it but there's often usually something else that that is being pent up inside and you can you can see that and feel that when suddenly somebody feels completely heard about something that they were walking on eggshells to reveal to you and then at the end of that you just sort of open up and you really release in a way that you know and that's one of the you know i've been accused of doing a workshop on that it's really for play because um

Now, one thing that's very important is especially before you share your feelings, I call that session a caring and sharing session. But before that caring and sharing session comes up and you share what's bothering you, you share the two things about your partner that you most appreciate, or two things that you appreciate that happened recently. And then at the end of the whole process, you share two other things that you appreciate. So it's like what I call a caring and sharing sandwich.

starts with appreciations, it ends with appreciations, and has one concern, a sandwiched in between. And so that really, and so then the question is, many people say, they do what I would call level one of appreciation. So let's say you say to your wife, you know, you're really a good cook. And she says, thank you. But she's heard that 150 times before, let's say. And so step two level two of appreciations would be saying that you know how did you get the turkey's skin so crisp now she's beginning to feel that you're really paying attention to what's making her a good cook and then you say let's say how did you get the dressing so moist because you know when i did the cooking once it got you know dried up now she's seeing even a deeper level of

you're observing what she's done well then you say like you know know, what were the spices in that, like parsley, sage, rosemary, time, or some other Simon and Garfunkel spice? And she's now beginning to see that you sort of were, you know, you're really attentive to not just the general cooking, but the, you know, these spices, the moist and so on. So this is a very fascinating, you know, part of the book in the workshop is, is teaching people how to be, not just share appreciations frequently and consistently, but also and setting aside a night where you do appreciate each other each week in addition to your spontaneous ones, but also taking the appreciations to at least five levels of

specificity. And so I have during the workshop and in the book, you know, I have people again and again, discipline themselves to share appreciations with their partner. And that fills the reservoir of love. That is a great, a great comment. You know, I think that's so true. The specificity of sort of emotions and speaking to your partner can get so just monotone. Like, thanks, babe, that was good. You know what I mean? I mean, it's so easy to become passing ships that way instead of really focusing on paying attention. And by the way, you know, I've learned that sometimes you've got to fake it until you make it. Even if you know that it's not necessarily in your nature, you know, maybe because we're all different.

But it's like, okay, she likes this. I know that this is going to make her feel good. So I'm going to say it, even though it doesn't come naturally yet. So it's like, oh, babe, the skin was super crispy. You know, I was like, oh, wow, wow. You know. Yeah. And you're being seen.

So that's funny that you say fake it to you and make it because I sort of have always honored myself by being so genuine. But when I started thinking about what is the, what is, how do you maintain this conflict free zone, the other 166 hours of the week so that you can keep the one time that, you know, the one criticism you have, the most important one for the caring and sharing time. And so one of those, I take people through six ways to maintain the conflict-free zone. One of those six ways is called Fake It Till You Make It. That's really amazing. That's funny. And the point there being very much like you were just saying, that let's say you buy, you're feeling really upset, but you go out and buy some flowers for your wife. What is your wife's name?

Aaron. Errin. Yeah, E-R-I-N-N, actually. Oh, E-R-I-N. Yeah, Irish. Well, yes. Yeah, a daughter named Aaron. And so you go out and you buy, you buy Aaron some flowers.

And while you're buying those flowers, you're saying, okay, now what does she really like? I know she likes, let's say, begonias, and she likes maybe apricot begonias. And, you know, so you pick up some of those things, the apricot begonias or whatever you know she likes. and while you are searching out the right flower and you are thinking to yourself, you're anticipating that she will smile, that she will feel a little softer in her energy when she sees that you've taken the first initiative,

she'll see that that's a way of an effort to make peace. And so you're faking it. You don't feel like you're really close to her at this point, but as you're buying flowers your own internal peace and anticipation of her appreciation really begins to help you reduce your angst and so you don't walk into the house with a vibration of you know you're the enemy and I'm you know and you've just done something wrong and there's dozens of things like that it can be something as simple as you know walking over and just rubbing her shoulder or her back

or whatever, or playing some fast music and sort of, you know, winking at her and saying want to dance. And the fast music changes the energy. And so, or just cooking a dessert that she likes or, you know, going out of your way in some way, it's faking it at the beginning because you don't really feel like doing that. But it changes your, you anticipate a different response and a different energy and the whole thing becomes softer. So the faking it has a very very positive purpose. September always feels like the start of something new, whether it's back to school, new projects, or just a fresh season.

It's the perfect time to start dreaming about your next adventure. I love that feeling of possibility, thinking about where to go next, what kind of place will stay in, and how to make it feel like home. I'm already imagining the kind of Airbnb that would make the trip unforgettable. somewhere with charm, character, and a little local flavor. If you're planning to be away this September, why not consider hosting your home on Airbnb while you're gone? Your home could be the highlight of someone else's trip,

a cozy place to land, a space that helps them feel like a local. And with Airbnb's co-host feature, you can hire a local co-host to help with everything from managing bookings to making sure your home is guest ready. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. I had this overwhelming sensation that I had to call it right then. And I just hit call. I said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick.

I'm the CEO of One Tribe Foundation. And I just wanted to call and let her know there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling. And there is help out there. The Good Stuff Podcast Season 2 takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a nonprofit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month. So join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission. I was married to a combat Army veteran, and he actually took his own life to suicide.

One Tribe saved my life twice. There's a lot of love that flows through this place, and it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. I don't have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a React mission. I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff.

Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness, the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories

I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets. With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

podcasts. And therapy for me, it was sort of this theme of, you know, to love without expecting love back, because we can't control how the other person feels or reacts. It's not in our control. All we can control is our expression. Yes. And when you can get that, when I was able to get that through my head, it was, again, another weight was lifted where it's like, oh, I can show love and it's okay if I don't get back

what I'm expecting. Yes. Because essentially you are giving to get, at least before I was understood that you don't need to get because you can't control. But when you are free to give, you get something from it no matter what their response is. Yes. Yeah. And I would do a slight modification on that.

we all want to be loved and so um starting with exactly what you're saying just give and be there and create just like with the fagetia omega stuff uh that's great but in the final analysis don't be ashamed to also want to be loved by your loved one and by your father um and just as your children will want to be loved by you um and so that's there's no shame in that desire to be loved to be loved even though you don't, you don't do it with the anticipation of this, you know, this for that type of thing. So I think, I think that that's. Does this translate to friendships and all kinds of other, you know, relationships? Or are you specifically geared towards, you know, sort of romantic relationships?

No, actually, once you, or siblings even hell, I guess we're doing a sibling show. So even that sibling, you know, dynamic, which, by the way, is so interesting in the four years we've been doing this, the sibling dynamic is so complex. It's really crazy. So, you know, there's probably a great workshop for siblings, too. And it really is all the same, meaning that I define a couple as any two people who have a history where they love each other, but that have gotten into complexities. that would like to have a future where they love each other more deeply. And so in the workshop, I'll have siblings. I'll have father and daughter, father and son, mother and son, mother and daughter. But I only allow two people because it gets too complex to do it with multiple people.

And so everybody and almost every sibling has challenge in their relationships. Daddy loved you more than he loved me. You know, so you got all this attention and, you know, and you get it all the time. And when I, when I walk up with you to meet somebody, they pay, you know, they really just care about, you know, paying attention to you. I'm just a little side show there. You know, and if somebody becomes like your sister, you know, well-known, there's a lot of effort in becoming well-known. And you're so focused off and on that effort that it's very challenging to remember that other people have certain responses to that experience as, with that, feel left out, deserted, not important, admired more by, and so on.

And so all of that needs to be heard, but in the process oftentimes of getting well known, you're so focused on yourself, you don't take the time out to hear these things. And yet in the final analysis, as you get, particularly as you get older, you realize that, you know, the people and your family are a lot more important to you than the fame. And so, but that doesn't really happen until you, you know, for, for, Yeah. Do you have siblings that go through all kinds of different dynamics, you know, that you've seen, whether it be what you're talking about, how, you know, you've achieved more and I feel less than, or, you know, you don't care about me or you don't pay attention to the things that I sort of love? I mean, I guess it just runs the gambit, right? As far as siblings go, or is there something specific, a pattern that you see with siblings, you know, specifically? First of all the things you mentioned.

And with my sister, she would come into, she's two years younger than I am, and she would come into a class. And the teacher would say, oh, you're Warren Farrell's sister, fantastic, you know, blah, blah. And so, you know, and I would think that that would make her feel really good. But in her perspective, what she felt was like she was the black and white TV and I was the color TV. and that it was always you know it was always warren and that that really so i needed needed to and wanted to hear how that must have felt from her perspective my brother had the exact same experience and and so it was really and so one of my internal things in life is to use whatever whatever i have to make other people feel good about themselves and and so and that

evolved from my seeing that my sister and brother had a very similar reaction to my doing well early in life. And so instead of it helping them, it didn't, it made them feel less than. Now, how much, though, is that their own shit? You know, because you weren't doing anything. You're living your life. I'm sure you were a great brother and attentive and weren't throwing it in their face and saying, hey, look at me, right? I mean, you seem like a pretty humble human being. So it's them dealing with their own stuff as well, no? What they need from me is just to be heard. Right.

They don't need an argument. They don't need. But it also is important that they are able to also hear my perspective. However, you know, my brother is, you know, he's unfortunately was killed in a ski accident. And so he's, we never got to the place where I was, you know, able to really deal with this at this level. But with my sister, who's still alive and two years younger than I am, you know, we've been able to talk this through.

And the first and most important thing is that is to, for me to take, I know this skill set, is for me to just hear her and to let her know what I hear and that I have it right from her perspective and what it must. have been like from her perspective and um she is not as trained in this area and so she doesn't hear me as well um but that's fine the relationship has gotten um a lot deeper and more satisfying and when i see her be heard um i feel a different energy that i am happy with mm-hmm all right rewinding a little bit or a lot so you know you got your degree you're the man you've done all your studies How did you get into this field?

Because you probably had choices, right? But was there a specific instance that we're like, well, this is what I want to do? Yeah. It happened when I was on the Board of Directors of the National Organization for Women in New York City and sort of was speaking all around the world on feminist issues.

And then, and I would go back to a place where I'd spoken before. And I'd ask, I've always been very sort of, I always have tried to create space for people to tell me, the real truth. So I would say, you know, they'd say, oh, you know, Dr. Farrell, your, your presentation was so good. I love the standing ovation you got, blah, blah, blah. And I say, well, what has changed for you as a result of that presentation? They could rarely even come up with a specific about what I'd said. And this is just two years later. And so I said, all right, there's something that's, that I haven't really helped men and women in my audience walk a mile on each other's shoes.

How can I do that? So I started to create role reversal dates in men's beauty contests. And so I would have, I would say to every man in the audience, listen, how many of you came here to learn more about women? Almost every hand goes up. Okay. So I'm going to ask you to come up on stage and walk in the beauty contest that women are in every day of their life. And I'll do a men's beauty contest. And so, you know, I'd have men come up on stage.

on stage and in the aisles and they would do this men's beauty contest and women would create a gamut uh you know a place where they would walk through and and they would try to reach out and maybe touch them and stuff like that and the men would um and so the men would compete for about a 45 minutes to become the the the um you know the the beauty queen of the beauty king um in the contest and at the end you know i'd process what the men felt and they would say it's kind of weird i was runner up in this contest and so I'm sort of in the way really proud but at the same time I'm so pissed that nobody seems to care about any part of me except my body and so here I've spent the last 45 minutes working to showcase my body and yet I feel angry that that's the only thing I'm

cared about for and so and every woman started clapping you know I said I really get thank you you got it so then i said not so easy women it's your turn to take it to walk a mile in men's moccasins that oftentimes men take um dozens and dozens of risks of rejection um before that before intercourse happens for the first time and so i'd like you to experience without going just step one or step two of just what it feels like for a man to really be attracted to somebody and to experience the possibility of one rejection after the other in the process of of asking her out. So I sat all the women into different rows

based on how much income they anticipated they would be making five years after graduation and with the teachers who were already making money about how much money they made. And so then I got the men on stage and I said, you look out in the audience and imagine yourself being the primary homemaker and caretaker of the children

and it really making a difference of how much income your partner makes, so you could move into the right neighborhood, the right school, and so on. And so if you find somebody in the back rows who's likely to be making very little money, it's your responsibility as a future parent to not focus on that person,

but look at the first rows of people that are making the most likely to be making the most money. And that's your responsibility for your children and so on. and so now the women in the back rows who are usually the most attractive are suddenly their their attractiveness is not being valued nearly as much and their and so then I had everybody in the audience eventually come up and ask out their first choice man which was very hard for them to do because they anticipated that their first choice man was the one that would be most likely to reject them and so but sure enough around the the top men, they were often seven to 10 to 15 women competing for asking that guy out. And so the women would then go ahead and, you know, ask, they start saying things like, you know, I want to take you out to this, you know, best Italian restaurant. And it's really going to be great. And I'm going to pick you up in my Porsche. And, you know, and they don't have a Porsche that barely know what

the best Italian restaurant is. There are good students in college. And then they still, They bring it down to only two or three people competing with them. And a number of them would just take the arms of the guy and just pull, pull. And they said. They got physical. Physical. And they said, you know what? If a guy did that with me, I would be.

They said, every time in my life I've used the word jerk, it applied to a guy. But today, that applied to me. And so I now go back someplace. where I've spoken 30 years later, and people still remember being in that experience. And so that led psychologists to start training with me because they saw that I was creating experiences where people were actually walking a mile on each other's shoes. And that began my work in creating workshops on male-female issues. One of the books I wrote is called Why Men Are the Way They Are.

but one slice of that workshop was on communication and that began 30 years ago what became the role-made to soulmate book today and but i i was beginning to to plant in my mind a much broader workshop when somebody wrote me in the this was down in the era of letters where i wrote They wrote me an actual letter and said, I'm, I just wanted you to know, I'm now using this couple's communication part of your workshop in my family business. I'm thinking, oh, that's really nice. And then I look at it, this is from John Robson, the CEO of Walmart. And I thought, well, if he can hire any, you know, consultant in the country and this little

slice is helping him, then maybe I need to develop this rolemate to soulmate workshop to a much greater degree and that's how I began this. Wow. September always feels like the start of something new, whether it's back to school, new projects, or just a fresh season. It's the perfect time to start dreaming about your next adventure. I love that feeling of possibility, thinking about where to go next, what kind of place will stay in, and how to make it feel like home.

I'm already imagining the kind of area. Airbnb that would make the trip unforgettable, somewhere with charm character and a little local flavor. If you're planning to be away this September, why not consider hosting your home on Airbnb while you're gone? Your home could be the highlight of someone else's trip, a cozy place to land, a space that helps them feel like a local. And with Airbnb's co-host feature, you can hire a local co-host to help with everything from managing bookings to making sure your home is guest ready. Find a co-host at Airbnb. I had this overwhelming sensation that I had to call her right then.

And I just hit call. I said, you know, hey, I'm Jacob Schick. I'm the CEO of One Tribe Foundation. And I just wanted to call on and let her know there's a lot of people battling some of the very same things you're battling. And there is help out there. The Good Stuff Podcast Season 2 takes a deep look into One Tribe Foundation, a nonprofit fighting suicide in the veteran community. September is National Suicide Prevention Month. So join host Jacob and Ashley Schick as they bring you to the front lines of One Tribe's mission.

I was married to a combat army veteran and he actually took his own life to suicide. One Tribe saved my life twice. There's a lot of love that flows through this place and it's sincere. Now it's a personal mission. I don't have to go to any more funerals, you know. I got blown up on a React mission. I ended up having amputation below the knee of my right leg and a traumatic brain injury because I landed on my head. Welcome to Season 2 of the Good Stuff.

Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Janica Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard. as she did.

Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happened in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Honestly, these are going to come out so freaking amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcomfit podcast as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

all right well we're coming to an end but i want to know a few things before we get out of here first of all you know in your relationships whether it be with your kids your brothers your sisters your wife whatever it is do you get looked at when you're going through your own shit as you know you're the expert how you know what i mean How do I compete with the expert or stop doing your shit on me? I mean, do you ever get that stuff from family and people's love? I get very little of that. However, the exception, my own self-crit.

I'm just now reading the audible version of Rolemaid to Soulmate. And I'm going through sections where I haven't done that as well as I'm talking about. And, you know, like, and, you know, I recommend people to at least one. disciplined appreciation each week at the five levels of specificity and sometimes i do we completely my wife and i completely forget to do the appreciations and i don't you know i usually i leave a lot of postlets around the house um of appreciations with her but not as many as i would like to and um you know i have a section in the book on you know how to pan for your partner's gold gold um and also had a pan for the golden life about gratitude and you know we the first time we did a gratitude

evening of just what in the world are we you know grateful for living you know living in the place we're living in in california versus uh ukraine etc and so um or just having you know being able to do this with each other which we couldn't do when i was growing up and you know writing you know writing books with you know um with the help of um search functions etc my first three books were written on index cards. And so as I'm reading through the books, through my own book, I'm sort of like, you know, I'm seeing how much I have, how ways that I fall short of being the man that I could be, the best man that I could be. So what do you think upon self-analysis, if you were to pinpoint one or two things that you are weak in, can you do that? Do you know? Are you like, well, I could be doing

this better just maybe not on the day to day but just kind of generally yes everything that i do well i do less well than i want to be doing like like the appreciations um i do that you know my wife says i'm the best appreciator she's ever experienced but i don't think i am i mean maybe that she's experienced but i'm i'm not i would like to do it better um i would um i we have a very very very close relationship with my children, I don't, there's, there's sort of like a little bit of a role of the eyes of, you know, of, you know, of me. They're kids. That's what they're supposed to do.

Exactly. And so I don't, I'm not penetrating that well enough for my own satisfaction. And so that's. Into your kids, meaning sort of adopting some of the things that you have. Well, yeah, they don't. You know, they have a different worldview and sort of like, you know, this whole, I was very instrumental in having my daughter be, she was about to break up with her, the man who became her husband. And I think there was, my workshop was very helpful for her, them to not do that. And he's the greatest guy possible.

And she's a wonderful young woman. Yeah. And so I was very happy about that. but generally speaking, she doesn't like all this, this type of relationship stuff. That's not her thing. As a parent separating yourself from sort of what your work is and how many lives you have changed, is it hard to be like, all right, look, I have the crown jewel right here. And if you don't want it, that's okay.

That's your choice. I mean, is it hard to separate? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Even though we know as parents, that's what we're supposed to do. Meaning, like, look, here's this charcutory board of incredible, incredible meats and cheeses and jams. Like, you can pick and eat whatever you want from it. I'm a vegetarian. Right, but I'm a vegetarian. Exactly.

That would be the response. I'm not a vegetarian, but that would be. I know, but that's exactly perfect to end the analogy. Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, it's hard to let go, I guess, because these are the kids that you love more than anything in the world. you know and all you can do is put it out there and they either take from it or they don't exactly it's that balance between you know they're grown now they're there they are parents i you know they have children or one of them has a i have a grandson and so it's it's really a very um you know letting them be the best that they can be in their own terms waiting to ask for advice if it's ever asked for rather than giving too much of it. But, you know, where is the balance as a parent

between, you know, sort of giving advice and information and, you know, and backing off and letting somebody experience their own life? Oh, gosh, I know. Trust me, I have 16, 14, and 11. So, you know, you're in the mix of that whole world and, you know, you try not to be too preachy, but at the same time, it's like, I've been through some stuff. Yes. You know, I'm imparting my wisdom. I know you might be rolling your eyes, but I know they're listening. Here's how I know.

Just recently, I was out with my son and a bunch of people. And we were in Europe, actually, just like three weeks ago. And he started to talk about what he believes, you know, and sort of from a deeper emotional place, which I've never heard him talk from. and it blew me away because all of the things I have said to him in passing or in trying to sort of, you know, teach him lessons one way or the other. You never think it's going in, it's in and out, you know, but all of a sudden he starts spouting off all of this stuff that I have, you know, hopefully had given to him and it stuck. And I'm like, oh, I was very emotional because I was like, holy shit, this is unbelievable. and it was validation that, you know, they do listen.

They do take it in, even if you don't think that they do. They do. They do. They sponge it up. You are 100% correct. And I had this, you know, with my own stepdaughter. And she was really hoping when she saw that my wife and I were falling in love. And she was hoping that my wife would get back to it with the biological dad. And she did everything possible to get, you know, to get to get me out of.

Liz and I not be in love with each other anymore. And then she was, but she was breaking up with her first boyfriend. And they did come to me for help. And so as I was sharing with them some of these things, she goes, oh, that's what you and mom do. And it was like, I had no idea that she was even allowing anything to enter into her consciousness. Yeah.

Desire to make sure. So you're absolutely right. I think what you're doing with your dad will be one of the greatest contributors to your children's growth and development to see you make that connection. And as you're going through and sort of getting to be able to appreciate specifically what your dad is doing and being able to say, you know, did he, how do I feel about him taking this time out for me from his day? what else could he be doing that he is making me more important for what is the shame in his life about him not having contact with me that he has had the courage to work with and work through and talk with me about and there's you know there's got to be a thousand things that you that you can specifically hone in to appreciate about what your dad has done that will both open him up at

another level and as you share those things with your children just give them, without giving them advice, just share your story. Right. And your story becomes what you just got a few minutes ago. That is so true. Yeah, because there's a way, it's like burying the broccoli, you know what I mean? Like, you know, making the broccoli taste really good somehow. You put it in a sauce or whatever, and the kids are eating their vegetables without knowing about it.

Similarly, that's kind of what it is. It's like, don't be so direct. bury the message in your life in a tale and a story you know totally do you do you tease your children oh my god well beyond anything that potentially is healthy i mean i since they were little i have messed with my kids so much so that gullible is not even a a word in their vocabulary i can't get anything by them now since they were little i teased them i still teased them i mean and they tease me they teased it's a you see the how that unity it's a real um it's a real sort of coming togetherness and how we all kind of mess with each other for sure that's really what so of course every

virtue taken to its extreme can become a vice and so i'm not sure my teasing can't go too far yeah you don't want to hurt feelings you know well you will sort of hurt feelings but yes i have i've done that i'm like oh dude i'm sorry i was not trying to do that it's very um teasing is um like a fruit smoothie you and with that that can cover up wheat grass weak grass is the criticism and the teasing can be like you know you're exaggerating you're having fun and you're winking your eyes and all those types of things um and that allows the teasing to be the the the it allows the wheat grass of the criticism to be taken down more easily and um and so that's a very valuable thing to do when you you know when you and so in the rolemate to soulmate book

there's a whole, you know, semi-chapter on exactly the dynamics of teasing. And because this is often a very big misunderstanding between husbands and wives. Yeah. What this, you know, my goodness, Jimmy or Jane, she cried. Why would you ever make our child cry? And so that, and what that's about and how to balance that and how to communicate to a mom that might feel more protective to the child, what the value is but at the same time

as we listen to mom about when if she feels it has gone too far yeah well teasing within a relationship to a romantic relationship is for play you know I mean big time

when you can tease each other poke each other even physically it's it's you know because you know how that can sort of escalate to something amazing when you start to tease that way yes and then and then one more little thing

it's funny it just came to my mind last night my daughter had a little earache and she would put these drops in and she was just scared she didn't want it in and I was like her name is Rio

and I'm like Rio like it's fine like you put the drops in and I'm sure the spider will just will come out exactly what I'm like you know the spider will fly it'll just crawl out and she doesn't really cry much

this one and she starts crying I'm like I'm sorry I'm just messing with you Daddy why did you say that I'm like I'm just kidding. There's no spider in your ear, you know, but I literally took it too far less. And that taking too far is, you know, the next time you do that, oftentimes, one of the experience will be was, you know, sort of knowing that you're taking that to that level.

And you have, and you're helping to build resilience in her about, about that type of thing. And so, you know, the value of being able to hear criticism from somebody you love, and then also play with it, helps people to be able to take criticism in. And if you don't teach kids to be able to take criticism in before they, you know, leave the house, you haven't prepared them to handle the criticism in the real world. Right. And in the real world, the more successful you are, the more criticism you will experience. For sure, for sure.

Explain what the new one is. And so the new book is RoleMate to Soulmate. and it's to everything that we've been talking about here, this caring and sharing experience of being able to hear your partner's criticism without becoming defensive, I basically set up how you can do that step by step and how you can, what are the ways of maintaining a conflict-free zone

and bringing the concerns you have to a safe place during the week? How do you go through the process of, of appreciating specifically how do you do the teasing effectively just hundreds of it's seven to 23 it's 23 love enhancements that I put forward but seven of them are the crucial what I call secrets to to lifelong love and that's all available amazing can't wait I will be reading that myself I love these I love these books you know I mean it's just Even if you're reading things that are recognizable, they reinforce and you've dedicated your life to it.

And it sounds like there's no bigger expert. And this has been amazing, doctor. I've had a really good time. I've had a wonderful time. You are so, you give such a gift to the world by having done the work yourself with your father, having done the work in therapy, being opened about it, being a strong, presenting man, but at the same time being vulnerable, these are gifts both to your kids and also to the world. And so thank you for you. I appreciate that. That makes me feel good. All right. Well,

have a great one. And hopefully our paths cross, you never know. Let me know if you ever need me for anything, and I'll be there. Thank you. And vice versa. Yeah, I will. I might be calling you in a heap of tears one day. You never know. All right, buddy. I appreciate it. Really a pleasure, Oliver. Okay. Thanks, man. Wow. That was great. I mean, all we have, really all we have is love. I don't want to sound like an asshole, but it's just the kind of truth. I mean, what are we without love? Love is how we survive. I mean, when you really think about it, good love, bad love. I'm not saying it's all good love. You come into this world and immediately, You are surrounded by love or not, and you can pick up on negative love, too, but you're searching and striving unconsciously to be taken care of. The point is, is love in relationships, love in sibling relationships, love and friendships. If you are living a loveless life, then it's not really worth it.

So it's about finding love, keeping love, maintaining love, because it fluctuates. it goes up it goes down finding love in nature love is all around anyway uh that was great i will uh see you next time thanks doc that was a nice conversation oliver hudson out hi i'm jenica lopez and in the new season of the over comfort podcast i'm even more honest, more vulnerable and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time?

Join me for conversations about healing and growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Listen to the new season of the Overcomber podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is, can Jim, Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land?

Jeopardy-truthers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. They give you the answers, and you still blew it. The Puzzler. Listen on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Super Secret Festi Club Podcast Season 4 is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy

chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here! Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.