Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Ron and Clint Howard

Episode Date: February 17, 2022

Ron and Clint Howard sit down with Kate and Oliver this week on Sibling Revelry. They discuss the process of writing a memoir together, growing up as working actors, their relationship to fame, and more.Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver HudsonProduced by Allison BresnickEdited by Josh WindischMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is powered by Simplecast.This episode is sponsored by:Future (tryfuture.com/sibling)Coors Light (coorslight.com/HUDSON)Everlywell (everlywell.com/sibling)Angela BlackSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece,

we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special. So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with the co-host feature you can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. Hey, it's your favorite jersey girl, Gia Judice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story.

This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rural Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana. Maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual Chaos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, murderers, sex offenders?

In this episode, I offer tips from them. I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk. When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like snooze. We ended up talking for hours, and I was like, this girl is my best friend. Let's talk about safety and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones. to Intentionally Disturbing on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson.

And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling rivalry. No, no. Sibling Ravelry. Don't do that with your mouth. Sibling

Reveory. That's good. Oliver. Sipleg Rembery, Pee-pee. Pee-P. Is it a Pee-Bee.

I'm harmonized. You're going to harmonize on that one. I've never been good at harm. I can't figure it out. Why? I always want to match. Yeah, that's what happens. That's the hard thing about harmonizing.

Yeah. Here, you start singing like, like, just like, b. No, no, no, sing like yesterday. Yesterday. All my troubles seem so far away. Now it looks as though they're here to stay. Oh, I believe. in yesterday

I was doing terrible too I was like what am I doing I was like where am I going with this harmony Or do Blackbird Blackbird singing in the dead of night Take these broken wings and learn to fly All your life Hold on hold on what's the harmony babe

You were only Oh yeah yeah okay good ready ready go You're only waiting for this moment to rise. Blackbird fly. Blackbird fly into the light of a cold dark night. We got to work on it. I need to work on my harmonies. What's happening here?

Okay, Ollie, this is our first episode of the season. Yeah, and we have seasons now. I'm excited about our seasons. We got picked up. for another season. We picked ourselves up. We picked ourselves up. That's right.

It's the beauty of being your own network. Oh my God. It's true. And so we picked ourselves up. Here we are. And so we have some amazing people this season. And we're picking it off with one of my favorites I think we've ever done. Me too.

Ron and Clint Howard, we, first of all, I didn't even realize. that they were related. I know you didn't. I did. You knew. I didn't know that they were related, which is weird because we've known, we've known Ron Howard through far our whole lives.

And then you see who Clint Howard is and you're like, oh, this is the guy in every movie ever. Every movie that you've ever seen. And it was so nice to get to know them as siblings. It was like really kind of a wonderful hour and a half that we had. We've known Ron Howard since we were kids. He directed backdraft with our dad.

Ron Howard is one of the most prolific and talented and legendary directors with some of the great movies. One of which is one of our favorites, which is Parenthood. Which is like, hands down one of my favorite movies. Still, to this day, every piece of that movie is just perfect. It's timeless, really. I mean, it really is. And Ron, when you go through his credits, just IMDB him.

It's unbelievable. You almost forget what he's done. Yeah. And then you look at it like, oh shit, he did this and this. I mean, it's crazy. Being a child actor, it's something that him and our pa, Kurt, have in common, which is really growing up in the business and like getting, talking about it from his perspective and what that was like for him.

I mean, it's really interesting. Oh, gosh, yeah. And Clint too, by the way. Clint was also a childhood. star. Yeah. And in those days, obviously, there were only how many...

Oh my God, there was three networks. Channels. I mean, people, you had five channels. You know, you... So when someone was watching... Well, we get into that in the episode. Ron talks about that. But I don't know.

It was just so fascinating. He's also just the most lovely man. Oh, my God. He's the kindest, sweetest, most generous man. I tried to, you know, pitch myself to him. I want to be... I want him to be in one of his movies. But they also wrote this book together, which is so great.

He did. Yeah. As brothers wrote a book together, it's called The Boys. They were talking about how they were sort of memoirs and a shared perspective of their childhood and sort of looking at it. And their parents. I know their parents were so great. I mean, my gosh. What an amazing. Yeah, just this free, anyway, you'll listen to it.

But, you know, they managed their money and they were all, they were beautiful with it. I mean, it was just this. It seemed like this beautiful, creative upbringing. For me, what really happened in this, and I hope it happens to you guys who are listening, I got really inspired by his life story. He's so brilliant in what he does, and he absolutely loves it so much.

You know, when he talks about it, and he's talking about making movies and his experiences, it's like you just want to get on a movie set, write a script, start. You just want to do it. It was so, it was, for me, it was sort of infectious. I wonder what Ron Howard is like when he's not getting what he wants, because he's so sweet and he's so compassionate. You should have asked him that.

Do you think he would ever be like, God damn it, I just want him. I'm, I can't see him doing that. I don't think that's the way, I think, I think Ron's like even, like real even Stephen. Yeah. which to me is such an amazing like shows so much character like that to have that characteristic to not be reactive we're also dealing with egos you know and actors and all the crap that comes along with that that's true you know do you think stephen spielberg is even stephen What happens to the Stevens that aren't even, you know? Like there's so many Stephen, Stephen King. Steven Spielberg is even Stephen.

Probably even Stephen. Well, glad we had this. Yeah, okay, thanks. Anyway, enjoy Ron and Clint Howard. Hello. Hello. How are you? It's so good to see you.

Likewise, likewise. I kind of forgot it was you doing this. That's fantastic. Thank you, guys. I love that. That's the best thing. I forgot it was you guys. What's up, he-he-boy?

Hi. That's me. Oh, I'm so happy you guys are doing this. And I can't wait to talk about how you grew up in everything, because it's just so fascinating, but also just that you wrote a book about being siblings, which is something Oliver and I talk about, which is why we started the podcast,

which is that it's a relationship people don't really delve into that much. Well, yeah, it cut, you know. Excuse me. Excuse me real quick. How close are you guys age-wise? Almost three. Yeah, two and a half. Yeah, two and three quarters.

Okay. Listen, real quick, you know, Ron and I's split of being five years. Okay. From my perspective was just beautiful because I always looked at him and said, no, I could not kick his ass. I better not try. But I can only imagine if it was only, I had some friends that had that their siblings were two years apart. And it was, you know, there was always that little bit of jockey. And Ron and I just never had it.

Some of it has to do with him. And some of it has to do with the five-year spread. And then also probably your upbringing and your parents. in the way that you were raised. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, you know, I mean, you know, we didn't set out to write about our relationship particularly, but of course that inevitably became a part of it, as you, you know, as you guys are saying.

And but, you know, we would fight and Clint was tougher than he's given himself credit for to the point where even though I was five years older, every once at all I felt like I got to give a little back here because this is, I'm feeling this a little more than I should. And, you know, it would get a little intense. And dad would grab us and, you know, and he'd basically say, look, you guys are brothers. You're always going to be brothers. But you have a chance to be friends for the rest of your life. And that's something, that's really something valuable.

And I hope you'll hear me and take it seriously and do right by each other. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I have two, I have three kids and my two boys are the oldest and they're about two and a half years apart. And they do get along, but one's 14 now and one's 11. And so that separation is kind of happening. And I give them the same speech when they're getting on each other or my older one is on top of my little one

and not including him. I'm like, look, this is it, you guys. This is it. This is the most important relationship that you're going to have. And of course, they don't, I don't think they hear me because they're like, whatever, dad, you know. I think we kind of heard it. I mean, we may not have heard it then,

but I think it echoes. And that's what I think being a good parent offers. You don't necessarily always get the satisfaction of the, of the, of the, of the acknowledgement at that moment. Right. But it seems right. You know, I say, I've said this all my life. First of all, dad was very methodical when he spoke. A lot of times, I, you know, that would drive me crazy. But it wasn't what he said. It was the way he said it. You know, he just, he just had that way of connecting with me. you know he he had that way of gaining my attention not in a gonna slap you way although he did thump my dad was a thumper he'd hit it oh son of a bit and it hurt like a son of a bit well it didn't even really hurt but it just

reverberated around in there you know and it made you sort of pause and thing and he'd show it he'd show it Yeah. You wouldn't show it. But anyway. Well, before we get into like, you know, your childhood, why did you guys want to write this book? It's a little bit different. You know what I mean?

Writing about being siblings. How did it come about? A couple things that came together, but you start. Well, listen, you know, we both have this just amazing amount of love for our parents. You know, I love my dad so, so amazingly. deeply. And, you know, I don't know whether I showed it in, in his life. I think I did. I think I was a good son. I was a good son as, you know, to the best of my ability. But given this opportunity to really lay the cards on the table, to lay the truth on the table, you know, so it's not hearsay.

It's not, it's not secondhand. You know, we got to tell the story. And it's stories I've been telling to anyone who would listen for years. It's just, you know, Ron and I had an opportunity to write a book. And, you know, writing a book is fun. I really enjoyed it. You know, people have always asked me, you know, and Clint, you know, what was it like growing up on TV? What was it like being a child star?

You know, that's just kind of a standard question. And, you know, kind of a hard one to answer because, you know, that's my reality. I don't know anything else. but um one day i was hanging around on a we were shooting or something uh somewhere and i was and i was directing tom hanks and he's an author oh that guy an avid reader yeah and and i said tom people are coming to me and saying i should do a memoir do you what do you think i i'm i'm very reluctant he said you probably ought to one of these days but if i were you i would just do it about your childhood, because that's, that's what everybody wants to know about. And that's what's

really, really unusual about your life, is that you, you know, you not only succeeded, but you survived. And, of course, he liked hearing those stories when we were, whenever, you know, we were hanging out. So when mom passed first, you know, 17 years later, dad passed. And we were, we were there. We were at the house in Toluca Lake, you know, preparing for dad's memorial service. and, uh, which we'd also done for, you know, with dad for mom. But now, you know, now, now, now that, there we were, uh, looking at photos and so forth and reminiscing a lot about our journey and, and how much they meant to that. Um, and how brilliant they were at the particulars of kind of raising child actors.

And I, and I told Clint what Hank's had told me. And I said, you know, Tom, Tom thinks that's the story. I said, if I would never do it on my own, to be honest. But if you wanted to do this with me together, I think we could write about them. We could write about mom and dad. And we could also answer that question that we've heard all our lives in an entertaining and honest ways. And that might be very unusual. And I really, from that point forward, I stuck, I really stuck to the idea that, no, I don't want to do it on my own, but I'd love to do it with Clint.

And when we, you know, we, we sat down, we worked on our book proposal, you know, thoroughly for quite a while. When we, when we started to take it around to publishers, I really felt like we were on to something. And I think they realized as well, because the big thing was we didn't have to agree on a damn thing because we were going to each contribute to this. And where there were differences, that would be interesting to people, I thought. Did you have those moments where your perspectives were just, just so completely different that it was like, what? Yeah, a different perspective of the same scenario. Yeah, you know, I think we had to remind each other from time to time that, you know,

yes, my chair was completely different. My chair in the late 60s and early 70s, I had a completely different view of things than Ron had. Ron was, you know, that spread of being, you know, 14 and 9. That was a big spread where Ron was, you know, a lot more aware. of. Like, you know, Ron remembers the Charlie Manson murders, Sharon Tate, the Tate Lobbyalk of murders. You know, and that's just a blur to me. I mean, I kind of can vaguely remember the headlines. And I remember Steve Rales back doing that great TV movie, you know, but I don't remember that. But yet, so Ron, Ron had a, you know, more mature, being older, he had a more

mature perspective of things. And from time to time, you know, I would remind Ron, hey, bud, I was a little kid at this point, you know. Yeah. Well, and I was always always. always a little more of a worrier, a little more kind of serious about things, you know, and, and, yeah, there were times, especially, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a chapter where we, we write about kind of the only time when we saw real marital friction in our parents. And, and, and, and it, and it seemed dangerous that it seemed like divorce, you know, could, could, could, could occur, didn't. And it was only, it was only, it was seismic, because we just, They didn't fight.

We never saw that. Right. And, and, and I remembered that as a really heavy memory. Clint kind of recalls it as a little funny. Yeah. Kind of amusing almost. And I was,

I was surprised by that. But there are other, you know, other versions of that, too. Yeah, your parents name's Gene and Rance. Yes. Rance is such an interesting name.

Is that, is that an Irish thing? He made it up. Okay. He made that name up. And, and in the book, we sort of talk a little bit about, we surmise maybe where he might have found it because his given

name was Harold Beckenholt. He was a farm boy living in Oklahoma and Kansas. His parents would buy, fix up and sell farms. And that was his child that he lived on three different farms back and forth between Kansas and Oklahoma. And it wasn't it, Ron, wasn't it actually Aunt Glee, a dad's sister that sort of helped us piece together how he picked the name Rance? Because dad, never told us. Dad never, you know, he never said, this is why I landed on him. He didn't, he didn't like to talk about it. He didn't like it if I would even mention anybody that he had changed his name. No, no, I'm, I'm, I'm Rance Howard. I'm acting. I'm out there every day. And we don't need to confuse those sons of bitches. So he changed his name. Your mom was Gene.

That wasn't a change. She was Jean Spiegel. And, and he was, he was Harold Beck and Hold. And they fell in love that way. How did they meet? They were teenagers, right? Well, they met it, yeah, they met at, my mom had had gone, she had the acting bug and, and, and she came from a small town, but her, her family was well regarded. They had, her father was named Butch, Butch Spiegel, because he was the butcher. His real name was Bill, but he, but he went by Butch. And his, her mom was very artistic, very, very creative, great with her hands, but very introverted. Mom had his sort of joie de vivre and he also turned up to be kind of the lovable town drunk in a way. But, you know, that's in the DNA there. But the, she had the dream. And early enough,

at 17, she got accepted at the New York City Academy for Performing Arts, which was a pretty big deal. And she went. The parents, they let her go right out of high school. Duncan, Oklahoma was a being really small-time. I mean, that's huge. Well, she had that kind of vision. And look, we didn't give mom enough credit. I mean, we did in the book. It was an opportunity.

While she was alive, one of my little regrets is I don't think I gave her enough of a sense of my understanding that our family journey had every bit as much to do with her. And they transformed the course of their lineage and the future. through their decisions but she had this impetus she went unfortunately uh six months into her her work there um she was hit by truck nearly died and you know brought brought back to duncan my my grandmother had a kind of a uh you know a psychic event where she just knew she just woke up in the middle of the night and said jeans jean's in trouble she's been hurt and it turned out that that But that was just the time she'd been hit by the truck, you know,

and she got the call a few hours later. Wow. But she came back. She survived. It was touch and go. She survived. And, you know, she still had the dream of acting, but they weren't going to send her to New York anymore.

So she went to the University of Oklahoma, which right after World War II, already had a reputation as a really good theater school, mostly musical theater, not movies particularly, but they had a good program. They sent her there. And my father had had this dream. You know, he grew up, he loved, he loved, he was thought of himself as a cowboy.

He wanted to either be a heavyweight boxer or a singing cowboy. He wasn't good enough to be a heavyweight fighter and he couldn't carry a tune, but he had big ideas. And, and his idea, his, I mean, clearly your parents are perfect for each other. Yes, right out of the bat. They discovered that pretty well. Anyway, he thought that he would graduate from high school and get on his horse, lucky, and ride to Los Angeles. Lucky his horse.

He would camp along the way. He would ride along the highways. They would follow the same path that, you know, that the, that all the Oki's followed to try to get to Los Angeles. That's great. And he would ride his horse there and ride down Hollywood Boulevard and show those sons of bitches what a real. cowboy looked like. And that was what he was going to do. And his,

he didn't have a great relationship with his father, who mostly wanted him as the oldest son to stick around and, and run the farm. But no, his mom understood, but said, I don't think riding the horse to Hollywood is, is the right idea,

Harold. But you can go to college over here. And they, they teach acting, I think. He went there. do you guys know the TV and movie actor, but mostly TV actor Dennis Weaver,

yeah, who was McLeod and gun smoke and all that. He played my dad in Gentle Ben. He did, that's right. Oh, really? Of course. He was a couple of years older, but he was at OU and introduced them in a scene study class that he was sort of, you know, as a senior,

he was kind of conducting this class, introduced them. They fell in love. They didn't make it. They made it through that Smith that year. but they ran off. And, you know, they didn't quite tell us the story. But years later, we figured it out that they were, they were, they were the, they were the runaway bohemians, man. Oh, fun.

And then they went off. Did they go immediately to the, to L.A. or did they go to New York? Well, they went, well, first they went to Nashville. They got wind that there was someone in their, in their, their sphere that, that had successfully managed to, to grab some acting work in Nashville in the theater, little theater area they had. And so mom and dad went to Nashville and they struck out. They didn't have any luck in Nashville.

And having gone from Oklahoma to Nashville, they then just, they moved up north to New York City. So they landed in the 50s. They spent the first four or five years of their-40s. In the 40s. Yeah, in New York City. Yeah, in late 40s, 48.

Wow. You guys had no choice. I mean, this was in your DNA. You had no choice. No choice. I know what that feels like. You know, so they got married and they miraculously, eventually got married, they miraculously, you know, survived in the business. And my dad was thrilled.

He said, you know, from the age of 20 on, he never had to have a real job. He always managed to do this for a living. She wanted to act and was very, very good by all accounts, but hated the competition, was not, didn't fit, you know, she wasn't quite the character, wasn't quite the leading lady, didn't quite get the work. But, and when I was born, she signed off once and for all, I'm not going to act anymore. And, and, and, but. Right. And then the second you started crawling, they're like, he's auditioning. Not really. Not really. Future fitness, Ollie. It's the future. It's the future. It's the future of fitness and it's

happen to be called future fitness yes this is something that i have been using for a year and a half now and it is possibly the greatest workout app that i have ever been a part of well here's what i love about it this allows you to be able to do basically anything you want for me someone who travels someone who has a trainer someone a personal trainer someone who loves my peloton someone who loves to get outside and bike, what I'm digging about it is that you have a personal coach that holds you accountable to those decisions that you make. They schedule things out for you. They basically say, okay, you're going to work out four times a week. That's what you want to do. They know what your goals are. And you can say, I really want to do my Peloton on Wednesday. And they hold you

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Sounds kind of fun. Well, stars Golden Globe winner Joanne Froggett, who played Anna Bates in Downton Abbey. I love her. And McKeel Hussman from the flight attendant. Right. The show is perfect for fans who like a gripping mystery thriller like Gone Girl, Girl on the Train, the Undoing Sharp Objects. These are all very, very good actors.

The minute I saw this trailer, I knew that it would be binge-worthy. I got two episodes in. I can't wait to start the third one. So I'm telling you, you have to start watching Angela Black today. Binge all of the episodes for free, on-demand, on Spectrum. Now, that's Spectrum Originals, Angela Black. So you were born in New York, both of you? No, I was born in Oklahoma.

Yeah. Oh, okay, okay. Clint was born in L.A. For a reason, my, Clint was born in Burbank at St. Joe's hospital there. And, but, but my dad was in the Air Force at the time because his career was interrupted. Korean War was on. He was about to be drafted. Instead, he chose to enlist so that he could get into the, you know, like sort of USO and do shows and special services and whatnot.

And that's what, that's what he did. And instead of having me on the base hospital. at the base hospital where very sadly she'd had a stillborn baby, a stillbirth the year before, and it certainly affected them deeply. She wanted to have me and Duncan with a family doctor. So that's why I've never lived in Duncan, but I was born in her hometown.

And once he got out of the Air Force, he went back into the acting. And because he had been on the road with Henry Fonda in the play, Mr. Roberts, for a year. He had a lot of authority, and he'd been on Broadway with it, had a lot of authority with Summer Stock Groups to direct that play and be in it. And so he, he, you know, his career was going along well enough that he had that kind of opportunity. He did. And he, and he started to see that I was picking up on the dialogue. I was mimicking. He thought that was hilarious. If you ever saw the movie, he took one of the seeds where he would play the Henry Fonda part and I would

play the Jack Lemon part. And we would do this scene for people and it would crack people up. And how old were you at this point? Three. My daughter's like that. She mimics. You can say to her, say it like this, Ronnie, and she'll just say it right back. She'll be like, you know. Well, having directed a lot of kids now, I recognize that there are, you know, there is a thing. Some kids get. pick up on the notion of make-believe in a really organized way as something that you can do and people can get a kick out of it. And I've seen it. There are kids who are at three and four actually understand the game. And they're organized enough to sort of be able to play along.

It really kicks in by about five or six. But anyway, so he was making the rounds, which is the thing that actors in New York had to do. This is when all the television live TV and everything. It's still in New York, 1958, and 57. And he wandered into a casting call where there were a lot of kids. He was just going to leave his picture and resume with the casting director who he kind of knew. And he said, well, they can't see you right now. We're swamped. We're doing this movie for MGM, The Journey. And he said, well, I'll leave a note. And he left a note, hey, Rance Howard stopped by. Hey, by the way, I have a son who, who's a fine actor.

So he was just hoping to make some, you kind of cut through somehow. So they called and said, why don't you bring your son in? And he said, well, I was kind of joking. They said, well, bring him in.

So he did. And we did this scene for Mr. Roberts. And apparently it went over fairly well. And then they said, do you think he could do anything else? And my dad said, honestly, I have no idea. But we could try.

And they gave him some sides. And we went home and prepared. And that worked out. And eventually then I had a, screen test, which I write a lot about in the book because they did some kind of remarkable things to prepare me for the screen test. This is so wild. I mean, it's also like when you're talking about it, just the romance of New York in the 50s,

you know, and how amazing that probably, what an amazing time that probably was. They loved it. And my mom loved New York, you know, and it's late in her life, as she's. she was coming to the end of her life and she'd been ill for quite a while and had gone back into acting and had a great run as kind of the new little old lady on the block, you know, and she was just getting these sitcoms and these movie roles and, you know, she just was working all the time. So she was getting a lot of validation there.

Unfortunately, she was never very healthy and she sort of knew what was going on. And one of the things that she wanted to do was go back to new. New York and see New York again. So dad took her back and she was in a wheelchair then and he got and they wanted to see the apartment where they had really, you know, been those bohemian kids. Oh, was it on the Irving Arms was the I think that might have been what it was called the Irving Arms and, you know, and they had sort of rented this. Went over by Gramer C. Park?

No, it was on the Hudson and on the Upper West Side like around like 90th or something. like that. And so they had, you know, they had great memories. So they got, going from the hotel, they got in a cab. They went up there to see the place again. They pulled up. And this is like, this is so much like a movie or a Charles Dickens novel. Literally a wrecking ball is swinging through the air, taking the building out. Oh, no. And yeah, that's what I thought. I said, oh, no, but here's my mom's vibe. I said, mom, were you disappointed by that? And she said, Oh, no. Oh, no. We felt really lucky. Lucky. Yeah, we felt really lucky that we got to be the last ones to see it. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, so that's who she was. I mean, that's-glass-a-full. That's it right there.

It's also, I have to say, sort of who you are as a filmmaker. You must have carried that with, you have that bittersweet hopefulness. Well, thank you. I do view things, you know, optimistically. But, you know, talking about your pause. talking about Kurt, it, you know, he's the one person. We've talked a lot about this over the years that, you know, that I view as somebody who really would understand our journey and the relationship, because your granddad, Bing, he was very matter of fact about it all. And it was just like, here's a thing you can do, right? Right.

I mean, we used to talk about this. So I know I know I'm right. and and and and and yet conveying if you look at kurt's childhood performances he was grounded he was honest he wasn't play acting he understood the scene this is a similar thing that dad was able to do for clint and i that allowed us to to really learn the art of something the you know and and tools that we could use the rest of our lives and what's interesting is because i mean we never really talk about pause as a childhood actor on our show you know that that's like he started at nine and he was a big Disney guy for and you know forever but he got fed up

and quit the business right right moved to Colorado yeah and and he was right it was going to be a baseball player was going to be yeah now that was after did you have that moment with acting and with being sort of known or seen where you were like I'm not so sure this is no all in all in for all time. I mean, I thought about other things. Like if I could have been a, if I would have been good enough to be a baseball player, I thought I could maybe do that seasonally. You know, but I, when I was eight, they were saying, what do you want to be when you grow up? My answer, my pad answer was actor, writer, producer, director, cameraman, and baseball player. In that order. In that order, yeah. So you're five years old. Mom gets pregnant with Clint. What was your first

kind of reaction to having a sibling. Did you know that it was going to be a boy? Probably not, right? No, no. We didn't know in those days you didn't ever know. I was thrilled. I was thrilled about it. I was kind of a lonely kid because, you know,

first of all, my first two years of my life, they were in the Air Force. So they were moving around. Then it's two years in, sort of in New York, but also Summer Stock. And then the thing, then we did this movie that was in Europe.

And that's the first time that I acted professionally. So, you know, I knew kids here and there, but I didn't have a pal. I didn't have that. And I love my parents. We all got along fine. But I immediately was just enthralled with the idea of their being somebody else. Yeah. And then when Clint was born, do you have any of your earliest memories of him?

Yeah. the day we brought him home from the hospital. What was that like? Well, I had been on an audition that day and came back and to pick them up in their 52 Plymouth, four-door sedan. And I just remember sitting in the back and, you know, they wheeled mom out in the chair at St. Joseph's Hospital with this little bundle because I don't remember. I don't think I went to the hospital because I don't ever remember looking

through the window and seeing babies or anything like that. And so here he was in this blanket and my grandmother, my mom's mom, Louise Spiegel, she was there and she was helping her and just got in the back and I, no seatbelts in those days

but no car seat. Yeah, just her holding her baby. Just mom holding her baby. While driving. And probably with cigarettes in their mouth. Cigarette, red martini and driving. And there was Clint and you know Clint was one of these kids I remember it I mean I just I was he

had personality from jump I always say he was kind of born with one eyebrow raised and a smirk on his face do you guys find that people know because because Clint you have one of the most recognizable faces as an actor and you've been in everything and you're hilarious and you have memorable moments in in a lot of oh my god you're probably stopped on the street more than Ron It's like, I know you. Do people know that your brothers? Well, yes, I think the majority of people have figured it out one way or another. It's amazing to me when people don't know.

Like, for instance, I believe, Ron, what show were we on? We on the Today Show where the View or we were on the View. And one of the ladies on the View said, I didn't know you guys were brothers. And I would think, Jesus, you know, I mean, you know, I don't know. I get it. I picked that up on the Twitter feed, though. But people also don't know that that Bryce and I are related.

Yeah, I mean, I get the same thing with my brothers all the time. They're like, I have no idea that you guys. And it's like we do we do more things together. We post about each other all the time. But like between Wyatt Ollie and I, it's like they, nobody ever realizes we're related for some reason. You know, the interesting thing about celebrity, being celebrity, is, you know, after a while, and listen, I don't remember when I wasn't. I don't remember when somebody was not looking at me, you know, really, really taking a look.

And in fact, one thing that mom said later in her life, right kind of towards the end, she was really, one thing she was really impressed by, with me, was that even as a very little kid, I could put blinders on, I could actually kind of focus on what I needed to focus on and not worry or be distracted by people looking at us. But that being said, that, you know, the celebrity thing, I assume people know. People come up and approach me, you would think, well, they would know something about me. To what extent of their knowledge, I'm not sure, but they would, they know something. And then when I find out what they know is completely wrong, which I get a kick out of that.

When people claim they know stuff about me, it's just not even close. Where do you get your information? But it's always, I have to gauge. I have to gauge, well, okay, this person, is he just full of it? Yeah. Is he just, what is he trying to get something from? Oh, well, always. Well, you also have that is when you're growing up with a famous parent.

Right, we've experienced that too. And I'm sure your kids have as well, though. It's also a little opposite where it's more like you do gauge the bullshitters really early on because you see how they're reacting. to your parent. Like for me with with mom and pa, I have the opposite. There's no blinder.

It's like I've got like vampire vision. Like I can see everything happening. Yeah. Yeah. I can see who's coming in. I know that immediately they're going to want to talk to pa. They're going to talk to mom. I see mom left for glasses.

Crazy heightened. Yeah. It's like. But you also, you also get sharp, you know, you get sharp on on, on who people are and their intentions.

And your intuition just goes boom. I mean, And I think it's really a growing experience. I think my bullshit detector, my bullshit detector has been, you know, really refined and, and, you know, honed pretty well. I can miss. I miss it. I miss my BS detector misses, but I think you're right. I generally speak.

Do you guys have Sibs? Do you think it, does it pull you together as Sibs? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it does for sure, you know. I mean, I sort of feel that with my kids. We have four kids.

two of them are in the business two not but but i feel like they they're super close because we've traveled around and there was always this a little bit of a circus yeah yeah yeah i mean see i i had a problem with it i hated when people came up to mom it drove me crazy i remember as a young boy feeling anger not expressing it because i was too little but being angry when someone would come up to my parents like it was just this really sort of instinctive and then as i got older I did everything that I could to keep it quiet and secret who my parents were. I mean, everything that I could. Actually, a quick, funny story about Katie and I camp.

We were at Four Winds Westward Ho on Orcus Island, really a great sailing camp. This is a fun story. I didn't want anyone to fucking know who my parents were because I wanted to be anonymous. Ollie's like, don't ever tell anybody. I wanted them to like me for me. I mean, it was a whole thing. I was 11 or 12 years old. Cut to.

whereas there's this huge lawn that we have these all camp sort of what it's like a assembly like an assembly and it's like a runway that goes down into the water and there's a big dock and it's orcus island seattle it's gorgeous and there's this dock and you know a schooner on the dock yeah and the camp counselor's giving his announcement all of a sudden the sea plane goes it like buzzes our assembly buzzes down the assembly and does this big left hand turn and distracts everyone And everyone's looking up. I'm like, what the hell? And the seaplane lands and pulls up to the dock right at the bottom of the assembly.

Outsteps are fucking mother. Mom. I mean, Goldie Hawn and all her glory. Ron, she was literally like, hey! Hi! Oh my God! Like I'm looking for my kids. And she runs up the thing.

And Oliver was like, oh my God, I'm going to kill myself. I was very happy. I was like, mommy. What a great story. Well, I, one of our, you know, four kids, there was one daughter, one of the daughters would just, it was really, um, uh, dad, uh, leave me off here. Yeah, don't come in. 500 yards from, you know, the check in, uh, and turn around and I love you, but goodbye. Did you guys growing up, though, because you did have.

have fame in an early age, were you ever, but did you ever, were you ever annoyed with, but were you annoyed with it? You know, and was it ever like, Jesus, I love what I do. No, I was, I never, I never loved that, never loved that. I'm an introvert. Uh, I loved the work. Always loved it. Loved the set. Love caught on to the idea that there was this, this creative energy and there was a lot of laughs and there was, you know, and as a kid, you could actually earn their respect, real honest respect. you could even be you could be a peer almost you know and i loved everything about that but you know the world away from the studio was a little perplexing for me and uh and uh and you know and i was and again i was just uh clint Clint went through it very differently he had a kind

of a like he talked about those blinders he just a very unselfconscious uh confident kid and it was like if somebody fucked with him, he, he, he, he, it didn't throw him. He was like game on. Did you embrace that more? Like, yeah, fuck it. This is who I am. And yeah, let me put my chest out a little bit and I'm good with that. Well, yeah. Yeah. You know, I did. I did embrace it more. But I also had the great advantage of watching him navigate, you know, and run into a lot of spitballs and a lot of water balloons. I mean, not literally. But, you know, Ron put up with a lot of crap. Yeah. You know, and I, and I was just smart enough, it was hopefully, just smart enough to be able to sort of identify, well, wait, if you zig here, if you, if you kind of act this way,

then they won't pick on you. You know, listen, Ron grew up, he was the first kid and he was, you know, he was kind of a nerd. He really was, you know. I mean, I love Ron dearly. You're putting that in the past tense. I have a feeling it's still in my whole. No, you're not much of a nerd. You're not much of a nerd anymore, dude. No, I just, you know, so I had the, I had, I had the position of being able to watch him. Listen, what a great advantage. Yeah. See my, my five-year older brother navigate through these tricky waters of, of the entertainment business, and forget the entertainment business.

But life, you know, how to deal, how to deal with the public, how to deal with people when they came up and said, General Ben, where's your bear, you know, and Opie and stuff. I mean, it just was, you know, I don't recall ever, ever not having that, you know, and never not. Well, I had to learn how to handwrite to, you know, to do autographs, to give autographs. Right. You ever get any fights with kids like, fuck you, bang, you. Yeah. Did you?

Yeah. I was bullied around and dad was a tough guy. He wasn't a, he wasn't aggressive. He didn't ever seek conflict. But he was, you know, he was just strapped. farming farm boy and he'd wanted to be a boxer. I don't think he, I don't think he ever feared anybody or anything really in his life. He was just one of these guys in a calm, cool kind of, you know, sort of Midwestern Zan way. But so he would just say, punch him in the nose. Well, you know,

I didn't quite ever get around to punching too many people in the nose. We were very good at wrestling in our family. Wrestling was a big thing in the 60s, big, very popular. And we used to play act, all that stuff. And when Clint came along, he joined in right away. But I actually, because of this, if they said you want to fight, it never was punching anyway. It was always sort of tackling and grappling. And I was good at that. And so I kind of had to earn my way. My dad knew nothing about sports. But the reason that I became a middling athlete, it was that I needed it as an equalizer. And I practiced, man. I mean, on my own in ways that my buddies wouldn't bother to do just to get so if i was in a pickup basketball game i you know they had to deal with me i was

pretty good baseball i could actually i make the team i you know and yeah that's how you earned your respect sort of even though i mean everyone would want to be in your position on tv making that kind of dough but at the same time that's looked down upon when you're a kid yeah that's right you earn your respect through athletics and being like oh wait holy shit this kid's actually okay he can handle himself on the playground i think i think sometimes for like millennial or Gen Zs for forget that television

what the kind of stardom it created during not that long ago but really when you were when you were on that show you were everyone there were only so many channels that's right three channels

and there were only so many shows I mean you were really America's child star I mean people tuned in And it's like being a beetle. I mean, I don't want to compare you to a beetle. He was like Justin Bieber of his day. You're like a beep.

It was, that happened to Henry Winkler. That actually happened to Henry Winkler with Happy Days. And that was a different kind of a thing. But what, what, but there was an absolute familiarity that was, you know, unlike anything that would really happen today to a kid actor. And the show was a top 10 show for eight years. In fact, it was the number one show in the nation, the last year that it was on the air. But Andy Griffith was just tired of doing it, wanted to try something else.

Now you're a success if you have, you know, two and a half million people watching your show. When when you were, how many people were watching that show? If you didn't, if you didn't hit 30 million, it was an off week. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking crazy. Crazy. So did you, what did you do?

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do you want to hit a reset button get ready for what's next fuck yes yeah because these days everything is go go go go go right is it yeah i mean for me it is for me too yeah so it's time to take a pause and it's time to drink a cold refreshing cores light oh that sounds so good i know it does And we're in L.A. right now. And it makes me nostalgic even talking about course. I know. Well, you're about to go up there. You're going to get up there soon.

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I didn't have to protect him. He was a good young athlete, terrific actor, funny, made friends. easily. I admired Clint. I thought he was cool. I was proud of him, really proud of him. He never got picked on by anybody. And so I didn't have to protect him. And dad was a protector. You know, he's a freelance actor. He wasn't on a series. You know, he worked two days here, a day there and a week there. And so he was around. And also a very protective family. I mean, we hung in the neighborhood. By today's standards, we had a lot of freedom.

But for those standards, we were held very close in our little bubble. Yeah, we had pals, and yes, we could run the neighborhood to an extent, but not the way everybody else could. But I, but he, he made me feel safe wherever I was on a set or anywhere else. Did you guys, did you guys have lulls in your relationship? You know what I mean? Like moving forward in your life where you didn't talk for, while. Kate and I were just having this to talk, you know. She went and worked in Europe for five months and I was doing my thing. And sometimes you don't talk for months and months at a time.

We had that. We hardly talked for years. Yeah. In our 20s that we barely even spoke. We would like see each other. Well, I mean, we have stayed close over the years, but we live on, Clint, Clint lives on the West Coast. I live on the East Coast, you know. And this year, I've only been in the United States two weeks. So the, you know, this book, in fact, has been a kind of a gift. And I, you know, I've thought about it. I've thought, well, mom and dad, they wanted us to be closed. They'd love that we did this book. And, you know, and it's, this is not any sort of, uh, uh, reuniting. But definitely, it's been great for these two years to have a project to work on and a reason to get on the phone and be sharing emails and talking back and forth. Don't you think

Clint? And they're reminiscing too, right? Clint just like, you get to relive it again, which is probably painful and beautiful all at the same time, you know. Yeah, but listen, I tell you what, I dwell more on the fact that, you know, we were a New York Times bestseller for a month. I'm proud. First of all, I'm proud that Ron and I could collaborate and do something that, you know, affects people. We're getting, you know, wonderful reviews and friends and people just, you know, they're

heartfelt, heartfelt response. Let me double back. I was, as best as I could, being five years younger, I was, I was, to the best of my ability, protective of Ron, he went through, you know, being Opie, when you're like 15 years old or 16 years old and having been Opie for the better part of a decade, that's shitty, you know, now granted, the work wasn't. And I know it was a beautiful experience. And I met Andy and and Don, all these beautiful people got together and created this great show. But Ron was left as a teenager with acne being, hey, Opie, Opie, dopey, you know, and so gnarly.

And even through happy days, even through happy days, it was like I was, I don't know, just maybe cosmically or whatever I could do, I was just, you know, I believed him as a director. I believe when he was 15 years old and I was 10. Again, I looked around and said, shit, this guy's as good as anybody right now, and he's 15 years old. Imagine if he has a little experience under his belt. I never doubted for a second that he could do it. And I supported him, you know, as as best as I could with as much positive sort of, you know, I mean, I got past the peeing on in part. Wow, he did that, you did that too.

Oliver did that to me once. Yeah, but I have not gotten past it, so. Oliver. Oh, yeah, he still likes to be on my sister. Oh, yeah. Well, it was, we shared a bathroom. And so I was a very aggressive young girl who was like, get out. Come on, I need the bathroom.

And I just walk in. And then that was the way he deterred me. He just turned around and start being everywhere. In our situation, Clint was about 18 months old. still in diapers, still those last stages of diapers. And I remember being down on the floor playing with Lincoln logs or something. And all of a sudden I feel this warm stream hitting my cheat. And I'm hearing this sort of shortling little laugh.

I look over, put his stripped off his diaper, his leaning pelvis forward with his arms in the air, which is where I gave him the neck. From then on, he was the he he man. Oh, my God. I just did it once. I just did it once. I swear to God, I just did it once.

You know, one of the things that really struck me in the book was about your parents and the handling, actually, of the finances. And it was like that's such a rare thing for child actors or young kids who are pop stars, that the parents actually are saving that money for their children. children. They knew it was yours to be earned. I think you had the perfect parents to orchestrate it that way because they were the bohemians. They were the artists and they understood hard work and your dad was a journeyman actor. You know, it's like, oh, okay, you know, I'm not going to fucking steal. They had values. They had values. And I think the fact that very quickly I was getting more work than he was, he didn't never, there was no, he wasn't going to abandon his career ever. But I also think as a point of pride, we were going to buy God and live on his paycheck.

And he was never going to put his son or sons in the situation where they were in any way the breadwinners. This was their household. This was their family. In fact, when Cheryl and I started having kids, he said, I've only got one piece of advice for you guys. you know, be loving, but it's not the kids' home. Don't let them run the show. They need you to be the parent. They need you to define what your household is going to be.

And, you know, I immediately recognized that that's what he did. But that also entailed saving our money. And because he, you know, I mean, they took a manager's fee. You guys know what managers' fees are. Usually 15%. It's actually 5%. I was like, that's what I'm saying. This is like the most emotional, best managers ever.

Yeah, yeah. I want to just jump a little bit ahead to like the days that you guys are both kind of like killing it as actors, you're young. Did you party? Like were there moments where you guys were like, we're going to like cash in tonight on our fame and we're going to party. Well, no, I never. I never partied with Ron.

Well, as I'm saying, did you guys ever have those moments together? No. No. No. But I've never, I'm not a, I mean, look, I am not a partier. I mean, I was in, I really just, I'm, I'm, I'm, I just not in my DNA. And I don't, I'm not comfortable in those situations. It's not fun for me.

And so, yeah, college, you know, sure, you know, cut loose a little bit, you know, some drunken summer salts down the hall at Trojan Hall and at USC. Sure, but not fun. The next day, it was like, why did I do somersault down the fucking hall? I don't want to do somersaults down the fucking hall. That was not funny. You know, we didn't, we, we didn't even, like, we didn't go shopping on Rodeo Drive. We didn't go, we, we never, you know, mom and dad set up our lives, you know, we were dressed from Sears, you know, Sears catalog, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And, you know, we, I know I had one suit. You know, I wasn't, it, it, we, we didn't, we didn't live like we were going to a party.

That was just not set up. We were, we were the howards. We, we, you know. And they weren't very social. I mean, they, they weren't like socially, um, ambitious, you know, at all. Uh, they had friends and pals and there were parties and so forth. But, but, uh, we, like, I never saw any of the other kid actors. I mean, unless I was working with one of them on a show or crossing, you know,

sitting across from them at an audition, you know, I was, there was a meet, we had really bifurcated lives. It was, it was work, which we understood and liked. And then it was, it was literally, it was Burbank, California and the Parks and Recreation Department and school. And that was, those were our lives. Both of you just, just a very interesting dynamic because it's very different and opposite than what most people would think would happen when you're growing up as, I mean, what was your first job, Clint? How old were you? Well, I did an episode of the Andy Griffith Show when I was two years old.

And in fact, we're just, I'm a few days shy of being 60 years in the industry, paid professional. That is, have you been a SAG member for 60 years? No, because when I, back in 1961, one, infants and kids didn't have to join SAG. I don't think I joined SAG until 1964 or 65. Wow. Yeah, I'm like 16,000. I don't know what your number is, Ron, but my number's like 16,000.

Dad's number remarkably was like 2,300 because it goes by seniority. Yeah. There was a woman, a lady, an actress who was number one. I think James Cagney was like number two or three, but it went by whoever joined. Have you directed Clint, meaning in one of your movies, in one of your movies? Or meant multiple of your multiple. Yes, Apollo 13 is probably one of Clint's bigger roles, but also the paper. I don't know.

How many movies do you think, Clint, 10, 11, well? Yeah. You know, I can, I can count the ones that I wasn't in. I'll tell you that. I mean, are there times where Clint's like, Ron, fucking put me in this. movie that would have been the right of heart says it but he he gives me the look and

and you know and look I love working with him he's great he's he's he's just elevates every scene he's in he's creative he also knows his way around he's no must no fuss everything you could dream of so additive but I never put him in just to put him

in right it's got to be right if if he can score and there's something really to do that's that you know then I love having that's how I feel about allie Wait, wait, right. Guys, guys, guys, hold on. Hold on. The one, I wanted to be in Heart of the Sea, his wailing movie. God, I love that book. I just couldn't drop the weight. I couldn't play dying skinny. Right. I wanted to be, I wanted to be on that lifeboat. But it entailed not eating for three months. In far and away, Clint, there's this, there's the scene where they're claiming the land. Tell them you like my hat, Charlie.

And Nicole Kidman is like up on that hill And her like perfect hair is like this And then she gets on the horse And she on there And I remember when I was seeing that When I was little And I was like I will be running on a horse

One day on film It was like This is the image I see And that I want to be as an actress Well that's fantastic I'm also bummed out I wasn't in that too Well Clint was in that one

He actually had a funny part In fact, didn't Nicole punch you or push you down or something in that movie? Yeah, she pushed me into a big vat of feathers because I was the foreman of the chicken plucking. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Wait, have you asked, as Ron made you audition ever? Oh, yeah. Well, I auditioned until about 1984.

And then it was Ron hired me in backdraft. And my scene was with Robert De Niro. And Ron, you know, I know you told me this, that Brian, your partner, came up and said, don't you think we ought to maybe audition him or something? And then once Brian saw my performance in backdraft, he said to you, your brother doesn't have to audition anymore. That's great. Yeah. But back to Far and Away, I just want to say one thing about that.

You know, very, you know, romantic, idealized, rose-colored glasses, look back at the, you know, at that period of history. And just, you know, almost, it's not exactly a full-on comedy, but it's definitely a romance. It was a blast to do. I loved working with them. But the land race scene, which was epic to do, was really meaningful to me because we had three ancestors

who rode in that race. Wow. And nobody got anything. But that's why I was always fascinated by that event, which you now look at and realize, well, they were, they took the land from the Native Americans and the railroad, you know, wanted people in there and they gave it away to the Anglos. And it's kind of a, you know, it's a dubious page in our history. But it meant something in our family history. And on the day that we were filming that scene, I remember we had 13 cameras. We had all of these 750 extras and horses and what. And including my father, which I'll get to in a second. I'll tell a story that's not in the book because it came after the period of time that we were covering in the book. And I just, I was on a camera crane booming up and I looking out of it and it was dawn and I said, oh my, this is, this is as close to a time machine as anyone could ever experience because my relatives were there.

They were feeling this anxiety, you know, a hundred years ago. It was wild. But speaking of that hundred years, my dad was in that movie. And a really good horseman, and he was going to ride, you know, his character was supposed to race. And we did three runs at this thing. And with all these 700 people and horses lined up, the head wrangler and stunt coordinator, Walter, came up to me. And he said, you know, in the first one, we're not having any principles ride because we don't know exactly what's going to happen with this thing. And, you know, and your dad's a good horseman, he bona fide.

but he was 66 years old at this time, 67. He's a good horseman, but he wants to ride in his shot, and I keep telling him, Rance, it's a wide, they're all wide angles. It's no reason for you to do that. We're not letting any actors. Do it. And please tell him

because I don't feel safe about this. And I, so I went up to Dad, and I said, Dad, Walter's the man here on this, you know, we're not going to have a camera on you. There's just no reason for you to do it. The next go, I'm going to have crew's in there with Nicole and you and I have cameras for you guys and and he said I said oh so you just

sit out the first one and I started to walk away and he said son and he almost never hit me with that one and it was just like a movie I turned around he kind of waved for me to walk back over there and he said he said let me tell you something he said a hundred years ago I had three ancestors who wrote in this thing. 100 years later, my son is directing a movie about it. And I'd like to ride in the shot. And I turned to Walter and I said,

get him his horse. Yeah. That's so great. Oh, man. That's just the best. Let me, I'm just like an esoteric question because, you know, I'm an actor, but directing is something that I've done

since I was a kid. When she was acting as a, as a infant, And I was in fifth grade making movies. Went to college, blah, blah, blah. I needed to make money, became an actor. But, you know, directing is something that is a passion of mine, a passion that I don't really pursue because I'm constantly trying to support a family. And it gets overwhelming.

Honestly, the process is overwhelming for right now in my life. But a bigger question, like, what do you feel when you are making a movie? Like, what is that emotion, not necessarily in conjunction with the story? story but just overall you know i i feel a kind of a i mean it varies because it's it's shifting but the the biggest thing that i noticed was that i was less tired at the end of a day of directing than i was in any day where i had like sizable work to do as an actor that the elevator ride of did it and the self-doubt and did i get it and i wish they would have given me another one or You know, it was far more exhausting, emotionally getting there and back than directing.

Where you step on a set, you've prepared everything, and your focus and your energy level immediately just zooms if you've got to a 9.7. And with the first questions coming in. And it never stops. It's like that kind of all, you're sort of between 8.5 and 9.7. all day long. And that's the energy level. So it's really focused. But when things start to go well, it can be really, by the way, it also makes you feel stupid because you inevitably make a lot of bad calls every day, a lot of little mistakes that eat up time, that, you know, and I'm always for

trying to be as efficient as possible because I want to create space. I want to create space in the schedule for the good idea, for the for the for the go back, for the actor wants to try it another way for all of those things. And so I try to be very, very efficient while also creating an environment where the key people can feel like they're, you know, that they've been given a shot to do their best work. I wanted to create that environment every day on behalf of the story. And there are times when there is definitely a feeling of a flow. There's a time, there are times when you are saying we're moving to this setup over to here and by the way talk to the actor remind them of such and such turn around to the DP don't forget we got to

switch with lens let's switch the lens and it can be really thrilling because the machine starts to work around that little goal which is going to be the moment the moment you're trying to get and it's thrilling I find it thrilling I still find it I just finished doing a movie, and it was hard, hard work, but I sort of rewarded every so often every day when you hit those moments and a problem gets solved and something good gets, you know. Are you doing your post in London too?

Yes. Everything. We shot in Australia and we're doing post in London. Oh, I see. Okay. What about your ego? Now, it's a weird question because you seem like the least egotistical man of all time. But when you become successful,

and more and more do you ever have to check your ego meaning like I am the shit I know I'm the shit everyone knows I've made incredible movies and Oliver I don't think Ron Howard sees himself like I think he does I have a feeling it manifests itself differently I wish I would I wish I would allow myself that a little bit more really I'm yeah I need to I need to get your phone call and you need to cheerlead me man you're gonna call all you're gonna be like Ollie give me some of that I'm like Ron good Right at this moment, I, I am, I don't, I am not the shit. I am shit. Right.

I know that feeling. I know that feeling. I feel like I have that at least once a day when I'm working. You know, Clint, we're going to start wrapping up here, but I really do want to hit on, you know, your struggles with addiction. And I just think that's a really, like, wonderful, honest thing for you to do and so helpful for so many people. I know we have so many friends who struggle. and I just wanted to sort of ask if talking about that and letting that out was a very healing process for you

and how you feel about it now that you were able to sort of just be, you know, as open as you were about it in the book. Well, the healing began, you know, in really 1991. I mean, and listen, I'm, you know, I've got to be careful about anonymity and stuff, but, you know, there are programs where people gather and they share their experience, strength, and hope. And, you know, I have shared my story umpteen times, hundreds of times.

I did a lot of speaking and stuff. I've laid my cards out on the table before. I didn't find it much different laying my cards on the table in writing this book. You know, listen, I just had a pungent. That's not quite the right word. I've liked the feeling of being high. I mean, I just did. I think to some degree I still do.

I still sort of try to chase euphoria to a degree. But listen, I don't know whether it's in my DNA or whether it's something that came about or something. But, you know, I was so anxious to smoke weed when I was about 13 years old, maybe 14 years old. I can't quite remember, that I took the pencil shavings of my pencil sharpener, and I twisted up a fatty. And I tried to smoke the pencil shavings. Now, you know, somewhere in my head, I knew it wasn't going to work, but I was just so anxious to try to get there, you know, and I don't know, it wasn't learned behavior. I don't think me being in the business had anything to do with it. It's just, it was sort of in, like I said, it was in my DNA.

And, you know, sharing is critical. You know, you're only as sick as your secrets. You really, you know, and I didn't, this book is not meant to be some sort of revelatory thing because, like I said, I've spoken about this stuff a lot. And, you know, with my friends and my family, Ron knows. Ron was right there with me. And Ron drove a couple of times to rehabs, to visit me and stuff, you know. And it just felt like as far as, as far as, you know, as we wrote the boys,

it did happen in my childhood. You know, I did start getting loaded in my childhood. How old? It was something that we needed to talk about. You know, I started getting loaded, you know, when I was about 16 years old, sort of on a daily basis, you know. I played high school baseball. I was a varsity high school player, and I smoked weed and drank.

You know, it was, listen, there was a period of time where it sort of worked, where I was able to anesthetize myself and everything was great. And then, you know, like what happens with most people with addiction and drug abuse or alcohol, alcoholism, is it quit working, you know? And, you know, in a way, I'm really glad that it did quit working because, Jesus, you know, my liver would be out to here now. It's been, you know, so anyway, I am always grateful to be given an opportunity to share and to talk. And one-on-one with somebody who's struggling or in some sort of a group session, I certainly. know that, you know, honesty is the best policy. And, you know, if it, like you said, if I can do something to help somebody, Jesus, that's, you know, that's kind of why I'm on earth.

Yeah. Did you have to, did you have to go through sort of analysis, meaning self-analysis, just to understand why and where this came from in order to sort of curtail this addiction and come out of it? Oh, I don't know. You know what? Back, back in 1991, I mean, my first run at recovery was 1984 and then I had another I'm 88 you know you I I hit bedrock I hit rock bottom and then skid it along the bedrock for a while you know um no you know what simply enough friggin I put the plug in the jug and I started taking suggestions of other people I remember the first time I was I saw the 12 steps of recovery I thought these are great but they need to edit them down a little bit because there's 12 too many too many they had to edit it down to five steps but but in

In 1991, I said, Clint, fucking please, let's try to do it their way. You know, and I had success. With not a lot of analysis. You know, of course I did inventories, and of course I worked through things. But, you know, I, listen, I like to get loaded and it's time to stop. Yeah. I like the straightforward aspect of that, you know? I mean, it's pretty straightforward.

Right. Maybe it doesn't have to be anything from your child. It's like, well, he made it. he made his mom and dad a happy, proud people when, when, and they both, you know, they, they both saw it and, and, and, uh, it, it, it, it, uh, it made their lives. It made their lives to see him go through that and come out of it the way, uh, the way he has. Before, before, before we end, I just want to say that, that, the documentary, your girl did dads was just so beautiful. Oh, thank you. I even contacted some of the subjects on via Instagram just to sort of

communicate because I was so I was just so amazed by their stories and it's my number one priority in my life over my career over anything else being a father is extremely important to me because our dad sort of wasn't there and we wanted to break the cycle I wanted to break

the cycle so watching that was just really powerful and how you were raised and how you raised your kids and how you had a video camera in your hand seemingly all the time filming everything.

You're very inspirational as a dad, too. Well, thank you. I'll pass that along to Bryce, who's also here in London working in him. And is your boy still playing golf? Oh, yeah. Golf, yes, yes, yes. Reed is still playing,

and it also has a teaching tool called Steadhead, which is selling. And he, you know, patented this thing. Oh, awesome. And he's doing that as well. Great. before we go, we're going to do a quick speed round. And I just, I guess the first question I'm,

I'm going to start the speed round with is what did this book in, in like a quick sentence, what did this book, what's a new thing that it taught you about your brother? And you guys can both answer it. It reminded me of how funny Clint is. But it taught me that even as a young guy, he was wise to the world and competitive and more competitive than I realized he was. Well, listen, it reaffirmed in my mind what a frigging awesome man, my big brother is. You know, he's consistent. He was consistent when I was five and he was 10. He was consistent.

He's consistent when all through our adult lives. He's been a very consistent presence in my life. And, you know, I love that consistency. You know, he's a Hall of Fame guy. And, you know, in the sports world, there was a ball player, Carl Yistrimski, who Carl Yistrimski just year in and year out, just banged it out, banged it out. One year he had the triple crown, you know, one year the Red Sox won. But, you know, day in and day out, Yistrimski, you know, brought his lunch pill to the yard and played ball. And that's Ron.

Awesome. I love that. So, okay, what was the best advice you've received from the other? Wow. Can you go, Clint? Do you have anything? Best advice. Well, okay, the best advice I ever is, Ron, in adulthood,

Ron would start a lot of sentences by a lot of conversations by saying, now, Clint, I'm going to give you some unsolicited advice. You know, wait, it's the consistent. consistency of the advice. It's all really solid. And another thing that Ron has done, which I really appreciate, he has dropped tidbits of advice that he has gained from other people, people that he is respected, both in the industry and out of the industry. Ron likes to pass along. Ron likes to share. And he's told me things, little insights that George Lucas has told him. George and Ron have been, you know, very much close over the years. And it just seems like right when I needed to hear

something, right when I need to hear something, Ron would, you know, say something, oh, you know, I heard this from George Lucas or, you know, and not to name drop, but listen, George's a very successful guy. And listen, you know, his advice seems pretty solid to me. So anyway, it's Ron imparts just the right stuff at just the right time. And Clint's got a great clear eye, sense of the world. I think some of it has to do with everything that he's lived through and accomplished away from the set as much as, you know, working on movies or television shows. But for him, it's a sort of a clear, he has a sense that he will try to impart to me to just to trust my gut, give it my best shot, and live with it. And, you know,

kind of stop thinking you're going to be able to control the outcome. I like that. Just do your thing. Yeah. And I think that there have been many times when he's seen me, you know, sort of straining, struggling with an idea, feeling, emotion. And I'll call him up because he has that, he has that wisdom and can give that kind of advice. Here's one.

Who's more athletic? Clint. He just raises his hand. Yeah. But great, great with a hand-eye coordination. Decides to pick up a ping pong table. And before long, he's down there playing with the people on their way to the Olympics. First childhood crush.

For me, it was a girl that I was acting with in a TV, in a movie, in a movie at Disney. She recently passed away. Her name was Donna Butterworth. She was a singer. She'd done a movie, an Elvis movie. And we were in this TV movie together. And we both had to, we got to do a publicity trip to Disneyland. at one point

and we kissed on the Monsanto ride. Oh. Don of Butterworth. Clint? Well,

he's like Donna Butterworth. He's like Donna Butterworth. He said for me on Cordova and her name was Paulette Fraconi. Ah, an Italian.

But also, too, and I write about this in the boys, you know, a director that we were really close with, Bob Totten, had a daughter

named Heather. And Heather had red hair. And I was, you know, and I actually had a little, you know, 12-year-old relationship when, you know, about the time I was making the Red Pony. So Heather Totten and Heather Totten and Paulette for Coney. Hey, did, did you did mom and dad have a favorite?

And I mean that, of course, they didn't. But were there times where we were like, oh, no, of course. Clint's the man or Ron is the man. They were pretty balanced. They were pretty balanced about that. And again, there was that distance. So he was the baby, you know, and entertaining as hell and talented. But I never felt like that I was being superseded by the kid, you know.

The last question, we do this with everybody, is if there is, it's a two-part question. If there is one thing that you could emulate from your brother, what would that be? And then the other part of the question is, if there is something that you could alleviate? from your brother that you feel could help them in their life and sort of optimize their life? What would that be? Well, for me, it really is, it really is simple. First of all, the thing that I, Ron needs to take a break every once in a while. Ron is a determined, dogged, hardworking man, very focused. And, you know, like I used to play a lot of golf. And, you know, I, I would make this statement. I would say, you know, while Ron is trying to learn how to make a better motion

picture, I'm learning how to hit a foreiron out of the rough, you know, that that sort of capsulated it very much. I'll tell you, Ron may not be an absolute genius. I mean, I love him dearly, but he may not be an absolute genius. But what he is genius at doing is staying on a problem and working it. Ron is forever putting his maximum brain power. on to a situation and getting optimum results. Obviously, the, you know, the proof is in the pudding. He's got great kids. He's had a tremendously successful career.

He's been married for a zillion years to this beautiful girl and he met in high school. You know, Ron has done things right. And he does it not with genius, but with focus. And that's something I'd like to have a little more of. And what would you, what would you alleviate from him? There's a break. Oh, sorry.

Take a break. Yeah, just take a break. He said take a break. Oh, yeah. Listen, Ron hit, do you want to alleviate that from me? Ron hit the jackpot as a filmmaker in his mid-20s. Right. And then he proceeded to like go 10 years without taking a family vacation.

Right. Oh, my God. Ron. I have a feeling there were family vacations. They were just happening where he was shooting. Right. Ron, wait, wait, hold on. Hold on a second.

Ron would, I would be on the phone with Ron and he would be off on some little two or three day break. This was later on because he really did go years without taking a family vacation. But he would, he had promised, he would, he had promised Cheryl that he wouldn't bring any scripts with him. He promised Cheryl that he wasn't going to work on anything show business related. But yet he would confide in me that he brought a couple of scripts. I don't know I'd be Jonesing and no good to anybody. Okay. Well, so let's see, Clint.

The, I wish I could have Clint's sort of ability to own and be himself with with a, a complete sense that that's more than enough and and and and you know um clint doesn't feel like he he has to please people he's not a guy going around annoying people or like creating problems but he's he's present with himself in the situation in that moment with a with a strong measure of confidence and um i admire that i i wish i i you know had a little bit more of that sure, I'm confident. I mean, I know I've had, you know, success and I have confidence in my ideas and my thoughts. but it's that it's that sort of real centered stability that you know it that that that

that I'm enough you know and and and and and and more than enough and and I think Clint has that and I admire that in him and because it's you know and and and with that is I think more relaxation and a sense to have more fun more laughs and be a little bit looser which is great. The thing that I wish I could I could give him is, wow, I think he's doing pretty damn well. The, you know, I, I wish I could, I wish I could give him back some of the time that he did lose because he went through a rough decade. And, and he, and by the same token, he wouldn't be who he is today without having lived through that. And we, a family benefit from that benefit from his wisdom his insights but um you know i but he he lost he lost

time um and uh and he knows it and you know if i if i could wave a wand you know i would try to give that back to him but i wouldn't change him there's nothing i would yeah i don't think i can improve him love that well i love this thank you so much this was so fun pleasure this was so wonderful i appreciate you guys What a blast. Yeah, this is so great. I loved it so much. I mean, we'll see you soon.

And get the book. The boys. A memoir. The boys. The boys. There you go. All right. Thank you, guys.

Thank you, guys. Bye. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Allison Bresden. Editor is Josh Windish. Music by Mark Hudson, aka Uncle Mike. If you want to show us some love, rate the show. and leave us a review.

This show is powered by Simplecast. Hey, it's your favorite Jersey girl, Gia Judeyce. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rural Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana, maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom

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