Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Sam and Emmanuel Acho

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

This week on "Sibling Revelry" Goldie fills in for Oliver, and she and Kate sit down with Sam and Emmanuel Acho. Emmanuel is a Fox Sports Analyst, former linebacker, Host & Producer of “Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man,” and author.  Sam is a humanitarian, public speaker, author, and NFL linebacker. The Acho brothers discuss their new books (both recently published,) the lessons their parents taught them at an early age, what it was like to play as brothers in the NFL, how we integrate diversity into our daily lives, and more.Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver HudsonProduced by Allison BresnickMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is powered by Simplecast.This episode is sponsored by Each & Every, Public Goods, Olipop, and Bev.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece,

we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special. So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with the co-host feature you can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos.

Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. The Moment is a space for the conversations we've been having us father and daughter for years. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos

on the IHeart Radio app, podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Introducing IVF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. It grew like a tech startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients. You think you're finally like in the right hands.

You're just not. Listen to IVF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story on the IHeart Radio app, Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling rivalry.

No, no. Sibling rivalry. Don't do that with your mouth. Sibling Revelry That's good So I was super bummed To miss this one

But by popular demand And when I said popular demand I mean we We really put a poll out there And we put it to the fans They chose My mother the only most beautiful, most talented Goldie Haan.

Kate and Mom talked to Sam and Emmanuel Acho. Emmanuel is a Fox Sports Analystist, co-host, former linebacker, and now he's the host and the producer of this really cool series. It's a web series called Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man. It's about racism. It's opening up a dialogue, albeit uncomfortable at times. He just wrote a book, Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man.

It's really, really amazing. And then Sam is a humanitarian. He's a public speaker. He's an NFL linebacker. He also came out with a book this fall called Let the World See You, How to Be Real in a World Full of Fakes. I try every day, man. These guys are amazing.

I'm bummed. I'm bummed. I said it at the top. that I couldn't be there. It just happened. But I cannot wait to listen. I'll be listening along with you because I haven't even heard it yet.

They are bringing really important conversations front and center. So dig in and enjoy. We were sitting here looking at your guys' books. And one of the things that it was so amazing is just thinking that in between a month that you guys have both, In 2020, the weirdest year of all of our lives,

you've done one of the most seminal things in your life so far, I would think, which is published your first novel. So that's amazing. Which was crazy, crazy, crazy. It's so great. But you know what I love is that you both have a mission to care and you both have a mission to change. And this is an interesting thing about two brothers.

one i mean manuel you looked up so much to sam and it's kind of like where did that i mean that connection happen how did you actually become two people and by the way you know yes we are different people we come from the same belly some of the genetics are the same but what is it that actually created this in both of you which was to make a difference and that's what you're doing yeah i'll go first um that's a really good question i think it's the way in which we were kind of cultivated growing up, right? I think that more it's caught than it's taught. And so it's one thing to tell your kids to do something.

It's another thing to show your kids what you are doing. And obviously, you all would know best. And so I think more is caught than is taught. And so I think Sam and I both caught the same things. And that is why we both are trying to be world changers, although vastly different, Sam will attest to this, our personality's very different. The book's very different.

Our style, very different. Like, Sam probably has a little bit more substance. I probably have a little bit more sizzle, right? Like, we're just very different. It's like me and Ollie, you know. But we still have the same mission. And I think it's because of the upbringing. I think you're probably right.

I mean, it is really important to have that. And it's such a, you know, I mean, is there any codependence that you have together? Do you, I mean, do you read each other's work? do you share each other's things? Do you, I mean, how do you feel about that connection? Because you're not that far apart in age. What are you, three, two and a half years or something? Yeah.

Yeah, that's like Kate. Yeah, we're about two and a half years apart. I wouldn't say there's any kind of co-dependence, but I would say is that it seems like we push each other in different ways, right? Like, I'll see what he does and I'll be motivated or inspired. And he'll see what I do and he'll be motivated and inspired. And in a lot of ways, even with the book process, right? I got a chance to write my book.

And I was giving him some advice and some tips. You got a chance to do, you know, promote his book in his own way. And so it's just been really cool to see us, for lack of better terms, feed off of each other, right? Like we're actually pushing each other. And even though we're in different lanes and different states and different parts of the world, we're feeding off of each other and helping each other grow. So the age difference is two and a half years and Sam, you're older. Yeah, I'm older. I'm older.

So football is an aggressive game. So which one of you is more aggressive? Oh, that's this guy. I would say you have your hands down. Yeah. I'm probably, I'm saying manual hands down. Just like, just personality-wise, just like thought process. Like, I would say you're a lot more aggressive.

But you're also strategic, right? I would say I'm more of the empathetic one, right? People would joke all the time when I play football. I'd knock somebody down. I just feel like, I feel bad. Oh, my God. Sorry, it's not going to happen to get, right? Oh, my mentality.

Sorry is not going to happen again. Yeah, as a little kid, it was like, hey, man, like, my, or I thought, I don't want to be rude or mean, like, but my job is to hit you and not kind of to hurt you, you know, and so as I grew older, I learned, as I grew older, I learned, okay, this is part of the game, but I know early on, I felt bad. I felt bad like hitting these guys and knocking them down. You know, I was going to ask a question today because I was reading a lot about you and basically falling in love with both of you. and my big question here is which one of you is more empathetic because what you're doing is driven by empathy both of you and and I find that to be extraordinary what is underneath the one is more aggressive and the other one is more compassionate but the truth of the matter is you are both driven to make change and I think that's pretty awesome but I was questioning so you're the empathy you're the one that has the empathy Sam yeah it's funny because

Because I'm at the, at the, from the outside looking in, it would, if anybody thought, oh, one of the autos will start in comfortable conversations with a black man, like a conversation about racial reconciliation, everyone would say Sam. Like that is not a man, you know, like, I am not the like kind, like, hey, let's all come together and kumbaya and let's talk. Let's hold hands. That's not at all me. But I think what I've realized is just like a fruit, if you take a water, versus, I don't know, an orange, they might have different out exteriors. A watermelon might be a little bit harder and the orange might be a little bit softer. But when you cut down the middle, you still get a fruit on the inside. And so I think I just have an exterior that reads a little harsher because I am more aggressive naturally. But I think when you look at the interior, when you look at Sam and I as far as like our innermost beings, our shared humanity, I think there's a lot of empathy at the core of both. Yeah, and I would agree with that too. I would, if I could double down on that, like anybody who knows Emmanuel really, really well, they know that if you're in his corner, like if he's in your corner, you're set for life, right?

He really cares for people well, and the way he shows it is different, right? But to flip that on his head a little bit, anyone who knows me well on the outside, it's like, man, Sam's such a nice guy, it's so empathetic, whatever. But if you kind of dig down deep, there's this piece as like, hey, man,

cut the crap, let's get to where we need to get to. Right? And so at the end, it seems as if we both have our, we're different, but we're also similar, but I think at the core of both of us is this idea that we want to make change, we just have different ways of going about it. What I like about this is that it shows the differential between the two of you and the actual ability to move forward on a path that is actually going to create better thinking, a different way of looking at things, and that's who we all are.

And eventually we're going to talk about that because I think that that's where the barriers are, and I think that that's all where the connection is. And I think it's an important conversation that we can have in a little bit. Yeah, it all starts with how we are raised. So let's rewind a little bit because your father was a pastor, correct? And so you grew up with someone who had a very strong moral and ethical code. And you guys are carrying that probably in different ways because we're always different than our parents as, you know, as we are. But let's start from the beginning. So where did you guys grow up? Yeah, so born and raised in Dallas, Texas, Sam and I both were. Sam is the third. So we have two older sisters and Sam and then myself.

So I'm the youngest and then Sam right above me. Like you said, father, doctored in psychology. He's also a marital counselor for a living and a pastor. And my mom has their doctorate degree in nursing. And so education, education, education, it was instilled in us. We both went to this affluent, predominantly white high school where you're supposed to be a national merit scholar. You're supposed to go to Harvard, go to Yale.

We just happened to be 632, 262, 240, 260. So I was like, I guess we'll play football. True story, someone in my brother's high school graduating class won the National Spelling Dean. You know, like, can you use it in a sentence, please? Like, that's the kind of school we went to. Now, was this a private school? It was. It was a private school.

It was an all-boys, college prep, private school. Okay, uniforms, at about eight, yeah, everything. 80 people in our graduating class. Like I said, people who scored, one of my friends, Saiganturi was his name. He won the Scripts National Spelling Bee. People scored perfect scores on the SAT. It was Harvard, Stanford, Yale. That was the standard.

And that's the path we were taking. And as Emmanuel said, we just happened to be a big, fast, and pretty good at football as well. But did they even have a solid football team? Because of us. I was going to say, you guys just ran circles around every private school. So you were already leaders, I can say. Because of us, I mean, when you're playing high school at a private school football and you got two guys that are going to play like Division 1 and go on to play in the NFL,

you're probably pretty sad. What was your parents, when did they realize that you guys were talented football players? and was that part of like, did they push you towards that or were they more academic? Was there ever sort of a war between the two? I would say the only real war. I mean, it was all academics early on, right? They put us in sports as little kids because I think we just were running around, messing things up.

It's like, get your energy out somewhere else. And so then we started getting pretty good. I remember we went to this football camp at U.S. University of Southern California. And that was a time where they were a perennial powerhouse. They had Pete Carroll as a head coach and Reggie Bush and Matt Liner, all these guys. superstars, won championships. And that was when we first got discovered in a lot of ways. I remember getting called up to Pete Carroll's office

and essentially getting offered a scholarship out of nowhere, right? So it was almost like this whole new world opened up. And so I was getting ready to be a senior in high school. And all of a sudden I'm getting offers to go play football for free. Right, Emmanuel was a little bit younger than I. And so I felt like I was sad. I said, I'm going to go to college for free, go play football, we'll be fine. And I remember bringing back a seed on a test.

Came back home with a C, and I was like, I'm good, right? I got a C, we'll be fine. Because in our house, this A's and B's, that kind of was a standard. At least for me, I don't, Emmanuel, I hope it was for you too. He's laughing, but I got to say it. And I brought back a C, and I was like, yeah, I'm fine. You know, we'll be fine. I'm going to go play football in college.

My dad looked at me and he said, in his typical Nigerian accent, if I see another C on a test, I will take you out of football. That was the thing. So there was really no competition for us. for me, for Emmanuel and I, between football and academics. It's either going to be in excellent at academics. If you're going to do both, you're still got to be great, both in everything you do right on the field, in the classroom,

but we're not sacrificing one for the other. That's really interesting because when I brought home a C, my mother made fudge. So in our family. I did okay, but I mean, it's like. The world of the people who dance and dance for a living and put on our tap shoes. Oh, my God. You know, here's what I love.

First of all, I love your smiles and I love the way you're up, your upbringing. But the one thing I always have a question of is that, you know, my mom used to say to me, Goldie, my mom was Jewish and my father was Presbyterian. and I was by nature always a very religious little girl. I believed in God, and I had, I guess because my mom was more Jewish, you know, I had more of Jewish upbringing, although I went to every church possible. My best girlfriend was Catholic, and Daddy was Presbyterian,

and my mom was Jewish, so I was all over the place. But I believe in God. What my mom said to me is that I'd like you to know one thing, Goldie. If you are somewhere where there isn't a place of worship, you can worship in your own home you can worship you don't have to go to a church or a synagogue to worship and i've always held that so the church in many ways i believed is inside of me as well so my question i think to you sam is that i believe that religion and belief is extremely important how important was that to you or is that yeah i love that question

And even Goldie, I love the realization that you had that church is in a place. It's more of a people, right? Like if you look at, even if you go Jewish or biblical, if you want to even go biblical a little bit, the church wasn't the, weren't these huge buildings or cathedrals. It was just a group of people gathering together at different people's houses. So a lot of, it was home churches, right? And then all of a sudden you get more and more people, we need bigger houses. And all of a sudden, now you're getting building these big churches.

But really, even even, even just to that point, like, I've always believed that when it comes to religion, at least for me, it's more of a relationship with God, right? It's not like, okay, I'm going to practice religion because anyone can do anything religiously. I work out religiously, right? I might run religiously. I might be a religious reader, right? You just do it over and over again.

But there's a difference between religion and relationship. Goldie, where you're speaking of is more of a relationship, right? Okay, I pray. I don't have to go to a church to pray. I don't have to go to a synagogue to pray. I can pray at my house. I can pray at a restaurant. I feel like it's almost like God, the spirit of God is living inside of me.

And so to your point, I think there's definitely a huge, not only irrelevance, but an importance in having a relationship with God. Because that way, at least for me, it helps you navigate life. Because life has so many ups and so many downs. There's so much confusion, anxiety, fear, doubt, shame. A lot of that's what I talk about in my book and let the world see you. But if you have this relationship, it almost gives you a guide on how to be able to meander through life.

And also we'd be resilient, you know, because that actually, in terms of understanding the nature of happiness, which I've studied a lot, you are embodiment of that. And also Emmanuel, you know, you were raised in an environment of love because God is love. And I believe that that is something that is really important to embody and to basically to actually engage in amplifying this truth. But, Emmanuel, I'm curious to know what your relationship is to religion. I would say it's the same as Sam. I don't really believe in religion.

Like, I believe in relationship. And I don't think that the problem is religion. And so many bad things have been done in the name of religion that people have terrible relationships with religion. And I think religion has almost, that term has almost undermined itself. because the term religion is now elicits such a negative visceral reaction that it has undermined the true essence of the relationship. So Kate, very much so like my brother, I'm all about like, what's your relationship with Christ? What's your relationship with God?

I don't really care to talk about religion. I think you start talking about religion. It can be divisive, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, non-denominational, Baptist. It's like, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. Why all these differences? Yeah. What are we connecting on? Yeah, and I'm curious as to how your father sort of brought that and your mother.

And let's go back for real quick. I want to, you know, we usually start with really the basics. Like, how old are your sisters? 30, what, Chi-Chi's, our oldest, Chi-Chi is 37, six, five, four. 36? 36, 36, 33-4. So, whoa. So it was like, I mean, they had four under six.

Yeah. Wow. That's pretty intense. That's a wild house. I kind of love. You see why they threw us into sports. So who was around the most? Was mom and dad both super present?

Or was there one person that was more at home than the other? I think mom was definitely at home more. Dad was working a lot. But the thing about that I remembered about our dad is that he always showed up for the important things. For example, I never saw our dad was a provider in a lot of ways, right? working, going to school, and my mom went to school as well, but I never remember my dad missing a game. Never remember, even since we were little, right? He would work till six or seven, and literally he would go straight from work in his suit and his time because he was a counselor

as well. He's a marriage counselor, so he's a marriage counselor. He's a pastor, does business stuff, and he would always show up to the games, even when we got to college. Now Emmanuel's playing in high school, and I'm in college because I'm a little bit older. He'd go to Emmanuel's games on Fridays and then drive up to Austin for my games on Saturdays, right? My mom, both mom and dad. So dad was present in that way. As far as the day-to-day, it seemed like mom was a lot more present, right? Taking us to practices and games, right?

I think dad took us a school a ton. But I think it definitely be mom in that regard. Kurt was the same way. He never missed a game. He never missed a production of a play. Yeah, priorities say a lot about parents, don't they? Absolutely. Yeah, and they kind of set the tone.

I mean. Also, Kurt being at games, we moved basically to Vancouver for Wyatt because he wanted, he's a goaltender and he wanted to be a professional hockey player. And we, and he became one. And we moved to Vancouver for three years. And Kurt and I set up a house there and lived alike because we wanted Wyatt to have his dream. And we went to every hockey game and everything that went. And it was the greatest experience ever. Sports is a lesson in life. And if we can digress for a second, because I want to ask this question, because I think it's so important. What did you learn about life from playing this sport? Is it a metaphor in any way? Everything. Everything. Like when I talk about my book with uncomfortable conversations with a black man, people are like, how did you do it?

Why are you laboring so intensively to help educate, if you will, white people. aren't you ever tired? And I'm like, sometimes in team sports, you had to pick up the slack of your other teammate for the greater good of the team. And so even right now, with how fatigued and exhausted black people are with what's going gone

and how black people are having to work overdrive, if you will, to educate white people, sometimes for the greater good of the team, you have to work overtime. You have to work a little bit harder if you want the team to succeed. And in talking about my book or my show, it's all about a team.

We're on the same team. It's the same human race. And sports have taught me everything because sports, you realize it's not always fair, but you have to win with the hand that you are dealt in the hand that you are given. So rather than complain about how lopsided it may be, try to find a way to win anyway.

I just have to say, as I started as a dancer from three years old all the way up to, you know, whatever, 20, 21, and I was dancing professionally. but and I look at it also as an athletic I mean all my life I had been athletic what what I learned is is that when you get knocked down you get the hell up you just do it again and you do it again until you get it right and that is blood sweat and tears and I think that this is why I asked a question is that you both are in the world right now doing it in your own way in your own inimitable fashion in your own personalities and the way that you actually communicate what it is that you believe in and what you're thinking and what you want to share. That happens because you've got grit and you have resilience. And what I love about that is that you played the game and you got up again. And that to me is just, I mean, I have to say I take my hat off to you or I don't have one on.

I'll toast you. Where do you think that was instilled? Do you think it's nature? Do you think it's nurture? I think in a lot of ways, there's a certain amount of grit that can be taught. That can't be taught. Obviously, you talked about it earlier. Okay, well, somebody has to have the dedication to get up and work out or get up and take a walk. Like, there's a piece of dedication that you need. But I think the part that gets taught is the fact that sometimes you don't even know that you have that until it gets pushed out of you, really pulled out of you, right? If anyone knew me, I was kind of like, hey, I kind of just love hanging out, having to good time. Not a big deal, right? If you want to go do your thing, I'll do your thing, I'll do

my thing. But somewhere down the line, I learned that if I wanted to be great, whether it's in sport, in life, right, with the book, let the world see, if I want to be great, you have to do the work. You have to do the work. And no one else is going to do the work for you. Point Blake, period. And so that idea of doing the work, I remember being 16, probably 15, 16 years old and feeling like I had an opportunity to maybe play in college. I really just wanted to be in better shape. And so in the summer, I said, okay, I'm going to try and just work out,

work out in the summer, right? I wanted to run under a 10-minute mile. I was a pretty big kid. Running wasn't my forte. And so I said, let me try and run under a 10-minute mile. I used to run like 12, 14. I couldn't even finish really early on. And so I said, I'm going to work at it.

And so I figured everyone wanted to do the same as me. I called up some friends in the first day, about four or five people showed up. I was like, all right, cool, we did it. We're working on it. Didn't get the goal, but we said, all right, we'll come back tomorrow. Well, the next day, never was cut in half.

About two people showed up, right? It was me and my buddy. It's like, all right, where'd everybody else go? Well, they didn't have the desire, right? So after the first week, me and my buddy were there. Well, after that, nobody was there. It was just me. It was just me.

But I had the desire to want to just not necessarily be great. I just wanted to get in better shape. I want to get in better shape. And so that, you could say that was, that's nature, right? There's something inside of me. But it took me really learning it and realizing it. and then nurturing that piece of it, right? I wanted to build that out, right?

So now when it comes to writing my book, right, you think about the countless hours, right? Like sleepless nights, thousands of words, and I'm literally writing or typing, right? I remember being in tears, writing some of these words because it's about, my book's about what it means to be seen, to be known and to be loved, right? And I think anybody who's in athletics or in the drama industry,

there's this idea of what it means to be real. And so for me, I knew what it was like to hide. And so I said, man, what if I could actually bring this idea of being real to bear? And the interesting part about it, Kate, is that no one could do it for me. No one could tell those stories for me. No one could go to the places that I could go. I had to do that. But that was taught a long, long time ago.

It was revealed in me back at 15, 16, 17, 17, probably even younger at 5 and 6, maybe playing on the playground, right, stuff I don't even remember. But I think there is a piece of this idea of grit, this idea of trying to be great, that can be nurtured. Now, do you think, like, if there was a mantra that you heard relating to what you're talking about from one of your parents, would you hear that coming from your mom? Would you hear it coming from your dad? Or is this just...

I think it's more, Emmanuel alluded to it earlier. I think it's more of what we saw. It's not what we heard is what we saw. We saw our dad every single day, get up and go to work. Every day. Not a day went by. He would get up and go to work. They need to come back with a suitcase in hand, the whole deal,

put his stuff down, get changed, and be with the family. Every single day. We saw our mom, all right? So, of course, she was taking care of us. But even after we all graduated, she went back to school to get her, to get her doctor, get her Ph.D., right? Or doctor and nurse partitioning. Excuse me.

We saw our mom and our dad go back and get up and go to work. So it wasn't that we heard a mantra, right? People say it all the time. Some parents, it's like, okay, do as I say, not as I do. What's like, no, no, no. We did as they did. Every summer, they would go to Nigeria and do medical mission work every single summer. People ask, well, Sam, you did a lot of work in Chicago.

You found a food desert in there. You opened up a, you essentially turned a liquor store into a food mart. What was that from? Well, dude, I saw my parents every single summer go and help people in need. And so for us, it was not, there's no phrase that I can remember. But it was an action, a daily action, a consistency that I saw in my dad, really, and my mom that really reminded me that there's more in the tank. Yeah, I think there's a phrase, your action speaks so loud, I can't hear what you're telling me.

I love that. And my parents' actions, they just spoke so loud that it didn't really matter what they said. I want to meet your parents. They sound awesome. I know. Now, your sisters, what do your sisters do? So the oldest is a nurse practitioner, Sam, Chi-Chi? Yeah, she's a nurse practitioner.

She also, she pretty much runs a hospital in Dallas. So she's a director and manager at a hospital. And then, so she did that for a couple years. And now she actually is a, there's a school that she went to that she loves. So she's essentially a school nurse because she loves this whole pediatric side of things. So she's done the management piece. Now she's on the, how do I take care of young kids piece? That's what she does.

Our other sister, Stephanie, is, she does consulting. She manages restaurants. She's got her MBA and got her PhD as well. So, I mean, we are... Such an academic family, yeah. If you were sitting around a table and you guys were in, like, 10, you know, the 10 range, like, Stephanie was 10. So, Chi-Chi's 12 and, right? Who's the loudest?

Maybe me? And you've been silenced for so long. I think you probably are the loudest making the most... Yeah, I'm probably the loudest. I'm probably the most disruptive. Okay. And, like... You are.

disruptive and that's what I wanted to say mentioned is that disruption is where you can and can create change and you literally went in there and wanted to have these difficult conversations with people and with that it's like wow look what look look what happened here I mean both of you are the the yin and the yin and the yang of this particular issue that we're dealing with right now which is basically systemic racism so I I love that this dance that you have with your family with your history, with your brother, and how you're working together. Now you've got these books that basically are, in terms of how do I get to be seen? And the other part is, okay, talk to me. Talk to me about what some of these issues are. Let's have some difficult conversations.

And I do, I have to say, is very important. And we talk about our upbringing and all of that, which does lead us into who we are. And I'm personally just, I'm standing in. tonight, you know, basically for my, for my son. For Oliver, who could be taking this in a whole different other connection. I'd probably have to run out of the room just like, but I'm really happy to be here tonight. Thanks, Kate, for calling me and ask me to come and get involved. I'm enjoying meeting you a lot. Did your sisters play any sports?

Yeah, both sisters were in track and basketball, but then they both went to school in, like, and northeast. One went to Syracuse and one went to Northwestern so I guess northeast and Midwest. Nice. And so it's too cold

to do all that. Right. They were like, I'm done. Exactly. So then Sam and I just carried the athletic torch. Oh, fun.

And so when you guys, well, I have to ask about like getting into trouble. Who is the troublemaker? Steph and me. Okay, I was about to say, let me now call this again. Yeah, Stephanie and me were both the troublemakers and Chi-Ti and Sam were the peacekeepers.

But funny enough, Chi-Ti and myself got along and Stephanie and Sam got along. So, like, there was that opposites of track dynamic. Yeah, exactly. If you were playing, although this, if you were playing a game of risk and it was a, like, it was a sibling, because this is good, because now I wish I had your sisters on here. If you, like, who would you pick? Would you pick Chichi to be your risk? Yeah, look at him.

He's definitely picking Chichi. Him and Chichi are like, they're like handed everywhere. They go, they're, I remember feeling left out. So, Kate, Goldie, I was just, now is the time to let this out. Let it all out. Let it out. So left out. Because Emmanuel and Chichi were like, they were like this.

They were so tight, so close. And Chichie just, she looked out for him. He was the baby. We just love him. And I'm like, what about me? Like, I'm still here, you know? And so Stephanie took me under her wing. But as you know, Stephanie's super mischievous.

And so I'm like, Stephanie, what are you? That's not the wing you wanted to be under? Not even, not even, I want to be in the wing. Don't even want to be in the air with that. I'm like, she's like, don't tell Mama Dad. I'm like, I have to tell Mama. I don't know why. Don't tell anybody.

And so she just, I think she just stopped telling me things because she knew I would tell, I literally would tell Mom and Dad. So, yeah. So anyways, I remember see, you all, I mean, that's easy. They would play space. together, play whatever the game was, Emmanuel and Cheech, and they were the cheaters. I know I'm probably saying too much now,

but they were the cheaters. So, like, remember, you know, win at all costs, people who do anything to win, we'd be playing whatever game it was, and they would, like, people talk about bag, borrowings, do whatever it took to win the game and lie about it.

And I'm like, no, this isn't... And they still don't even admit it, but it's true. Oh, God, but you know what? It's so fun. I mean, I'm just getting it. You know, I'm a way different. generation than you are and I'm a mother right so I've been a mom and I'm a grandma now but I'm so loving hearing what it is that you have and also the joy of family I mean that family is strong

you can laugh about it you can call each other God what are you doing you lied you this you that you're telling the truth about love and that's what your family is all about and that's what I'm connotating and it's another conversation and I always go into this but you really are an example, an exemplary family on daddy and mom were actually how they raised you and so forth. So anyway, I'm just really excited about that. Speaking of that too, so how important was for your parents bringing in Nigerian culture into how you were raised? They came over in the 70s, yes? Yeah, late 70s, early 80s. Nigerian culture, it was both incidental and intentional. You come to America from Nigeria with nothing, so you're going to gravitate toward

that, which you know, which are other Nigerians. And so that was the incidental part. The intentional part was continuing to remind us where our heritage lies. Each of us, we all have a Nigerian name along with our American name. Chi-Chi, she's called Chi-Chi because her Nigerian name, her Ibo name is Chi-Maka. So, chi in Igbo language, it means God. And so we each have a Nigerian name along with our American name. And then beyond that, my mom, just with Nigerian food and going back to Nigeria, either every Christmas or every summer. So it was both incidental and it was also intentional.

What is your Nigerian name? My Nigerian name is Chi-Nedu. Chi-Nedu, it means God guides me. Sam's is Oneedikachi, who is like, and so there's no one like God. Stephanie's is Chi Nierre, which means God gives. I love it. So God is basically the star of the show.

Yeah, always. Always. Oh, that's awesome. So it was really front and center just in terms of like, you know, keeping, keep making that always a part of how you, all four of you were raised. Yeah. And, I mean, you know, one of the things that I've been just reading a lot about lately is what's happening in Nigeria right now.

And I wonder how much you guys are involved in the police brutality that's going on over there right now and if that's something you speak to. Yeah, it's been interesting. Obviously, so my wife is from Nigeria as well. And we have a lot of her family is there. And obviously, we have family that's back in Nigeria as well. Just a few weeks ago, I was on a Zoom call

with some guys in the NFL, but also some groups who are focused on helping try and get to the bottom of what's going on in Nigeria. area number one. And number two, see what we can do to help. And so obviously we're seeing a lot of the police brutality, which is SARS, right? People are saying end SARS. But then there's also this whole idea of, there's this group called the, without getting into too much detail, called the Fulani Herdsman, who are essentially going from village to village and, for lack of better terms, raping and pillaging whole communities, and no one's even talking about it. And so we're

trying to say, man, what can we do to use our platform to try and end that? Or just trying to to bring some awareness or try and help cause some change, right? Everyone's talking about the elections in America and how those can be bad and crazy. But think about elections in Nigeria, they're 10 times worse. No one wants to give up power. There's so much doubt and confusion and anger and lies being told. And so for us, obviously being in America right now and even with COVID, it's hard to go back. People don't want it.

With COVID, it's hard to go back. Being in America, it's difficult to really get over and get your hands on some of those issues. but we're trying to do whatever we can to learn as much as we can and then use our platform, use our voice, use our influence to bring about change. Amazing. Each and every, each and every, we are all about supporting products from female founded companies

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sibling to receive $15 off your first order as you grow up in this very academic environment and you start to excel in football when you move towards okay wait we're looking at, I might be able to go to college to play this game. How did that rev up your excitement for the sport? Did that have an effect also Emmanuel for you? Did you feel like, oh, wait, my brother is getting all of this sort of attention. I'm good at football. He's going to go to a college.

You know, this is motivating me even more. yeah well thankfully sam kind of set the blueprint so again our parents coming from nigeria to america we don't know about sports and college we don't know about the recruiting process like we don't know about anything we're just playing a game we happen to be good at it and you got a bunch of like white people and black people being like hey y'all can play at the next level we're like what do what do you mean um and so when sam did it he kind of broke the the floodgates open so to speak so i never worried about getting recruited because i was like oh, if he can do it, I'll be able to do it too.

And then Sam always set the bar high. So I was just like, I just have to do whatever he does and I'll be just fine. So we were kind of flying by the seat of our pants, if you will. And Sam was flying first, thankfully. And I was just kind of like walking right in after. Yeah, but in a lot of ways, yes, I was old. Yes, I was doing it first in a lot of ways. But in a lot of ways, I was following and learning for Emmanuel.

Here's what I mean by that. He was the first one to play football. So he was 10, I might have been 12 or so, maybe nine. He might have been nine. And he was playing, you know, Spring Valley Elementary, whatever it was, the football league. And he was doing really, really well. And I was kind of scared, to be honest, to play. All right, these guys are hitting and I don't want to do it.

And he played really well, and he did it that year. So the next year I said, man, I'd love to play. So the next year, I think it might have been 12 or 13 at a time. I started to play. And so I started playing, playing. Well, the reason we even got to that football camp, and Emmanuel, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, was Emmanuel had learned about the football camp.

So what he would do all the time when he'd be watching guys on film, on YouTube watching linebackers like Ray Lewis and these guys, he'd be watching and watching and he heard about this football camp and he said, hey man, let's go. And so it ended up being a family trip, a family affair.

We had family friends, Nigerian family friends in California. We said, let's go making a family trip. So we'd go to that camp and that camp that he found out about but we didn't know, well, yes, we were happy to go to the camp, but we didn't know it was an invite-only camp, and we weren't invited. We weren't invited.

So we just showed up. We didn't know it was an invite. And not only that, it was their top 300 camp. So imagine the 300 best players from the entire state of California. Oh, my God. This is amazing. Yes, yes. So that was a time.

So, yes, like I said, I got called up. Me and four or five other guys got called up to Coach Carroll's office. So, yes, it was almost like me paving the way, but I got there because of him. Wow. Oh, my gosh. And then, okay, so now you guys are clearly getting a C is crazy in high school. You're really good students. You go and you get accepted to University of Texas.

And you both went to University of Texas, correct? Correct. So when Sam, Sam, you went, was that, I mean, you're playing for the longhorns. Was that so exciting? I mean, that's a big, that's a big team. team to be a part of was that did it feel that way to you like holy shysel i'm gonna it was uh it was exciting for sure for me it was almost one of those things that was bigger than my wildest dreams i never in a million years thought i would go play football

in college i just didn't i you watch the games you see the people it's like i can't do this everyone else is going to do it and so showing up i even Even when I got to campus, and this is a little bit maybe where Emmanuel and I differ. But even when I got to campus, I was like, man, I don't really know if I belong here. I don't really know if I belong here. There are guys who were, you know, they were the best at the biggest high schools and the best high schools and their parents played and all these things. And so obviously, slowly but surely I built my confidence. Immanuel story may be different.

I feel like you came in being like, hey, I'm the new kid on the vlog. I'm about to go and blow this whole thing up. Emmanuel? Yeah, I was just, I'm probably. naturally, overly confident. And so by the time I got to Texas, I was just like, I mean, I'm better. You're like, I'm ready for this. Even before he got to Texas.

So, like, I would go, I'd have my gear, right, my orange, our team colors were blue and gold. Blue and gold, very simple. In high school, in high school, in high school, they were blue and gold. So, but in college, it's burnt orange, right? And so I'd have my little burn orange sleeves, burnt orange, you know, wristbands. And I'd give him to Emmanuel just because this dude was rocking burnt orange everywhere. He was like, yeah, y'all high schoolers, I'm good on, y'all. I got bigger fist to cry.

Okay, wait, Sam, what did it feel like that opening game, your first time running onto the field at University of Texas? Well, it was, it definitely felt surreal. I remember being on the kickoff team. Anyone who knows sports, the first play of the game was a kickoff. And I remember being on the kickoff, really the kickoff return team. So I'm the guy who's trying to block some of the guys who were running down on kickoff.

And mind you, our high school, we had 80 people on our graduating, class probably 300 people in the stands. Texas had 100,000 people in the stands. So I remember being on the kickoff return team and looking up in the stands and being like, do-to-do-do-do-to-do-to-do, right? And that was, I mean, just freaking out. Like, this can't be real. I remember getting a recruiting letter from Matt Brown, who was a head coach at the time. And the letter, it was this letter, and it showed a picture of the stadium. Right. Pat, 100,000. people. I was in high school, 100,000 people, and you open it up and says, I bet you can't wait to play in front of all these fans. And I was like, I don't want to play in front of all these, man.

It was real. And I mean, God was so good. My first play ended up being a sack. I got a sack on my first play in college, which is amazing. And I mean, so I got a chance to release some of the pressure, but there definitely was this idea of, wow, this is amazing. This is what people do. Okay, wait, we're not going to go over that that fast. So you come into a hundred plus thousand people in a stadium opening day your first game and your first play was a sack yeah my first play was a sack and so it wasn't it wasn't the first game of the season so my first play wasn't until game three because i was supposed to red shirt so their plan for me as a freshman was hey sam we've got other guys who are going to play don't don't worry you're going to sit out this season and we'll see

what happens from there and i'm like all right cool i'd love to play but hey i get it well week one somebody gets hurt that's like hey sam you're still sitting out but stay ready right And so I'm like, all right, I'm ready. Well, week two, I don't play in a week two game. Well, week three, our third game in season, we're playing TCU. One guy was hurt. Another guy was suspended. And so we had about three guys, and I was the fourth.

So my coach said, hey, Sam, just put it this way. I know you're excited. At this point, I'm eager, right? He suspended. He's hurt. Put me in the game. He said, Sam, don't bring your helmet. Like, you come into the field.

Do not even bring your helmet out of the locker room. And I'm like, but, but, but. So I'm sitting on the sideline, hanging out, all of a sudden, one of those three guys gets injured. And the other guys nowhere to be found. I guess he was tired on the sideline or something. So my coach is like, we need a defensive man. We need a defensive man.

And he looks around, looks around, Ocho, get in there. And I'm like, I don't have a helmet, right? I don't have it. But you told me not to risk. I was going to run. I find a helmet. I throw it on. I'm running on the field.

What do I do? What do I do? What's the play? What's the play? They're like, just line up, get down. So I get in my stance, not knowing what to do. They say hut. And all of a sudden,

the Red Sea parted. Nobody blocked me, but don't tell anyone that. Nobody blocks to me. And I racked when I sack Andy Dalton, who actually is a quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys now, but I sack Andy Dalton on my very first play in college. I wasn't supposed to be out there. Once again, I think you see the theme, right?

I wasn't supposed to be out there. So I'm celebrating. I've got a sack. I'm like Emmanuel now. I'm confident. I'm the best in the world. Put me out there. All of a sudden, I hear my coach, right?

I hear my coach saying, atcho, atcho, get off the field. I'm like, I'm running off, like, coach, I thought, like, a sack is good, right? I know football sacks are good things. And so I get off the field. I say, coach, what happened? Did I mess up? He said, he said, no, Sam, you didn't mess up, but you weren't supposed to be out there. I said, what do you mean?

You come, he said, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I'll deal with it with the head coach. Well, the head coach didn't want me to play at all because he wanted to save me for the next season. But since I had played, I lost my register. And now of a sudden, I was playing as a freshman. And so that was the way, right? And so that's what I mean by, like,

I may not have been super confident, but God opened up doors for my confidence to build. My first play running out on the kickoff team, I made a tackle, right? Once again, nobody blocked me. I think you see the theme here. But it was a really unbelievable experiences. Wow, that is a great story. It's so good.

Okay, Emmanuel, I want to know what your first experience was running on to the university. And, I mean, were you playing together? Yeah, so I actually didn't want to go to Texas. I wanted to go to the University of Michigan. Because my junior year in high school, playing basketball with my brother, I was always the younger brother. And we were playing this our cross-town arrival. And whenever I would get the ball and dribble the ball on the floor,

the whole crowd would show, shadow, shadow, just mocking that I lived in my brother's shadow. And so when my brother went to Texas, I did not want to go to Texas. I was going to go all the way up north and play at Michigan. And so I'm sitting in Matt Brown's office with both of my parents, that's the head coach in Texas, both of my parents and my brother. And the head coach, he's like, Emmanuel,

we're going to offer you a scholarship at the University of Texas, want to commit. And I look at him and I just don't say anything because I didn't want to go to Texas, even though my parents wanted me to everybody did. And so the head coach set the scene. You got to set the scene, right? Like I had committed. I was there.

Texas doesn't hand out scholarships to anyone. So I had committed. This was the trip where Emmanuel was going to commit, right? Everyone thought he was going to commit. I thought he was going to commit. My parents thought the coaches thought the coach's wife was there. Everyone was expected.

We drove three hours from Dallas to Austin for Emmanuel to commit. Now, mind you, I didn't care. I would love to play with you, but I knew you had other desires, but that was a thought he was going to commit. So just I wanted to set the scene. It's kind of like being like a runaway bride. It was like everything was set. I'm sitting there, but nobody can't ever force me to do anything.

That's just how I am. So when the head coach asked me, do you want to commit with my parents sitting there, I was just like, I'm not saying yes. So I just stare at him blankly, and he's like, it's awkward, like a five second, just awkward silent. And he's like, well, he's like, obviously you're not ready. So it'll take some time and think about it. And I was like, all right, thanks.

And we leave. I have to drive back with my parents. for three hours. And they're just so disappointed, like we brought you all the way here to commit. How dare you sit in this coach's office and not even commit to this? How, what kind madness is?

And I'm sitting there for three hours. And I was like, oh, gosh. So finally, I decided to go to the University of Texas. My brother- I stopped you real quick, Emmanuel, please. Go ahead. What were your thought? Because that was the Cape.

That was the Goldie. That was the. most awkward car ride I have ever, ever been in. And mind you, mind you, I, Emmanuel, I'm cool. I'm like, hey, you don't want to go to Texas. You don't want to go to Texas, right? I'm in the board of the back together, like, whatever. Parents didn't say a word for like the first two hours. And then all of a sudden, I don't know who says up, but what was going through your mind on that, on that three hour, on that car ride? Now, I was just like, I'm the one that has to go to the college. So nobody can force me to go to that college. And I was like, and I was so tired of

being in my brother's shadow that I was just like, nah, I don't feel like doing this for four more years. Like, let me just go do my own thing. But then after some convincing and thinking, I was like, the whole brother's acho thing will be better. So Sam is wearing number 81 in college. I decided to wear number 18 so we can be palindromes, same numbers forward as backwards. And then kind of of the rest was history. Oh, that's great. That's so great. That's so great.

You guys are so connected. So, okay, so college, amazing experiences. When do you get drafted? Sam, I'm assuming you got drafted first, correct? What was that draft day like for you guys? Yeah, for me it was interesting because once again, so I finally got a chance to be the starter and to set records and do all the things, right? I won academic Cosman Trophy.

I was named one of the top 20s. smartest athletes. I won all these awards in college, went to the national championship. All the things I thought were going to take me to the next level and be a first round traffic. They were, I had done them in a lot of ways.

I'd done them. And so I remember hearing from coaches, there's a coach from the Pittsburgh Steelers. I said, hey, Sam, are you ready to be a Steeler? I'm like, yeah, coach I am. A coach from the Raiders actually flew me in to visit. And he said, hey, you flew me in and a few other players.

And after the visit, they said, hey, you out did all the other players. is you're going to be our second round pick because we don't have a first round pick if we had a first you'd be a first you're going to be our second round pick if not you'll be our third round pick of the latest so in my mind I'm like okay cool I'm set

and I remember Thursday was day one of the draft and nobody called right round one nobody called I'm like all right cool Friday this rounds two and three and everyone had told me I was going to be a top three round pick so Friday was my day right Friday I mean I was dressed too impressed I was five was ready invited friends family over

and nobody called. Scratch that. One person called on Friday towards the end of the third round. It was my agent. So imagine you're getting a call while the draft is going on by your agent. I'm thinking, okay, this is my time.

I'm getting signed. The Baltimore Ravens grew up to pick. And mind you, they had interviewed me as well. So I'm thinking I'm going to be a Raven and I pick up, hey, what's going on, man? And we're kind of small talk, small talk, small talk. My family's freaking out because my agent calls. And after a little bit of not hearing anything,

I'm like, hey, well, what's the news? what team am I going to? And he said, oh, Sam, I don't have any news for you. I was just calling to see if you heard anything. Oh, God. Devastated. Devastated. Right.

Devastated. And so I remember that night, not knowing if I was going to even play in the NFL at all after that night. Because I said, okay, there's seven rounds in the draft. Everyone told me I was going to be in the top three. Everyone, coaches, scouts, players, teammates. And so I remember actually just praying that night, crying, crying and praying and saying, God, just give me an opportunity. You know my heart.

You know I don't care about the fame or the money or the women. I just want to bring your name blue. I want to make you famous. Just give me a chance. I don't care if I get drafted. I don't care if I or am a free agent. Just give me an opportunity. Give me a tryout.

I remember just saying amen in my tears. We're waking up the next morning, which was the last day of the draft, fourth through seventh round. And we ordered some food. We're praying for our food as a family. Right. no one really came that day. All the friends had went home.

We said amen. We said amen. The phone rang. And on our, we had just got this collar ID. And so on the collar ID, it showed Arizona Cardinals. Right?

So the Arizona Cardinals, phone rings. I pick up the phone. And it's, it's Michael Bidwell, the owner of the team. And he says, Sam,

I'm so excited. We were surprised you, you flew this, fell this far down. Are you ready to be a cardinal? And I say, and at this one, I'm a little bit kind of dejected,

It's still not really sure. I'm like, yeah, I'm definitely ready to be a Cardinal. We'd love the opportunity. Mind you, I had heard so many people say they were going to pick me. So I wasn't going to believe anything at this point. I said, yeah, I'm sure I'm ready to be a Cardinal. We said, okay, great, well, here's the deal. I'm going to hang up.

I'm going to call the NFL League office and tell them you're going to be our draft big. And I'm like, hey, I didn't say yes. I said, hey, guys, I've heard stories of people saying they're going to draft someone and not really drafting them. So it was it okay if I just stay on the line with you until I see my name, called on the TV. They said, Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam, here's a deal. We need to hang up so we can tell

Roger Goodell, the commissioner of the NFL that we're picking you. So trust me, we'll call back. And I say, all right, sure. So I hang up the phone. And one of all I did to get drafted by the Arizona Cardinals in the fourth round. But it was definitely one of those moments

that felt surreal in a lot of ways, but definitely there was, you know, mixed emotions, joy, fear, excitement, all the things. All of it. Yeah, it is. It's all of it. It's a testament to character. You know, we all experience something like that at some point in our life.

It doesn't matter who you are, where you come from, what your background is. You know, you're going to hit those moments. Yeah, I've been told many times that I was when I asked for something like a little raise or we were dancing in Puerto Rico at the Condado Beach Hotel. And I said, you know, I was chosen to be the one to ask for more money. Well, we're dancers and we work really hard. I mean, we sweat every night at the club. We really should be getting more money.

And she said, you are ugly. You are an ugly woman. You are not going to make anything in your life. I said, but I'm just really asking if we could get a little more than the singers because they don't really, like, work that hard. So I got on a plane and left Puerto Rico and the Candado Beach Hotel. I went back to New York. Oh, Mom.

Oh, thanks so much. You know, my... Hi. You know, you learned to deal with that, like, stuff. So, Emmanuel, what was that like for you? I mean, your brother goes to the Cardinals. Now, you have a successful Longhorn's career. And what was your draft experience?

I'm sure you're going to say you were ready for it and you knew what was going to happen. No, after watching my brother, I realized don't trust anybody. And that's kind of what my brother told me. He was like, look, go into the draft with no. expectations. Now, I vividly remember, I think my brother was drafted with pick 103 or pick 103. And so after my brother got drafted, I told myself, okay, I have one more year, get drafted, pick 102. Like, whatever you do, beat your brother and where he got drafted.

Oh, God. But at the NFL combine, essentially the interview, the draft interview, I tear my quad off the bone while running the 40-yard dash. No. And so, yeah, as I'm running, I hear like, boom, boom, boom. I think it's my heels clicking. And it's really my quad being torn off the bone. And after I hear the sound of it tearing, I keep trying to run through it. Well, I was supposed to get drafted between the third and the fifth round. After tearing my quad, you don't know what's going to happen.

I end up getting drafted in the sixth round to the Cleveland Browns. And I was like, I don't even know where Cleveland is on a mat. And the Browns have been, like, historically terrible. So I'm like, I got to go to Cleveland, and I don't know where it is, and they're terrible. Which happens to be my youngest son's favorite team. I don't know how it happened. He's going to grow up with massive resilience.

Just the most resilient human beings in the world. And incredibly low expectation. So kudos to him. Everything he accomplishes in life will be a celebration. And so I ended up going to Cleveland. And I was torn because I'm in the sixth round and I'm going to Cleveland. I was happy to be drafted, but it was, it was a moment of mixed emotion. Right.

And then, and then where did you? I go from Cleveland to, I get traded from Cleveland to Philly. And I, you think you can only get traded in a video game. Like I get called into the general manager and head coach's office and he's like, Acho, hey, I just want to let you know, we're trading you to the Philadelphia Eagles. I'm trying not to smile, Kate, well, in the. the owner's office of the branch. You're like, thank God.

Get me the heck up out of here. Like anywhere but here. And I go to Philly three hours later because I booked your flight. You got to get there in three hours. They put me in a hotel. I end up sleeping on Nick Foles's couch, Super Bowl MVP of just a few years ago, close friend of mine. And then I stay in Philly the rest of my career, essentially.

Fantastic. And Sam, you stayed at the Cardinals and then you went and you played. I saved the Cardinals for four years, and then my third year, I thought I was going to be a Cardinal for life, right? Everyone said, man, Sam, the team loves you, the owner loves you, the owner's wife loves you, everybody loves you. I didn't be Cardinal for life. Well, my third year on the team, starting as a rookie, I tied the sack record for the rookie year. Second year, I start third year, third game of the season. We're playing the New Orleans Saints.

I just sacked Drew Brees for my first sack of the year, and then a few plays later, I break my leg out for the season. out for the season. And so it was like, at that point, I was like, am I still going to be a Cardinal? We just had a new coach. And so a lot of guys had gotten released, had all these new guys. And so recovered from that the next year. Well, after that, I played four, after that fourth year with the team, I went to the Chicago Bears, played the next four years with the Bears.

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Wegmans, and Airwann. All right, you guys then go on, and this is one thing I noticed I said to my mom before we were talking, Sam, I looked at your book and I said, you know what I love about this the most, other than, of course, the whole thing is how you chose

to underline who you are and you are a motivational storyteller, humanitarian, and an NFL linebacker. And I loved that because you're basically saying that you choose, you know, it's not to say that your football career isn't so important to you, but your purpose, and my mom always says

it's not who you are, it's what you do. Or is that, did I get it wrong? No. not what you do right no but then you say it's not who you are who you are no is not what you do you say it's not who you are it's who you choose to be there you go that's it okay we got it okay we remembered her clothes i was like is it who you was no it's not what you choose on where you choose but on a friday it could be who you were with a water yesterday yes yesterday, but then, but if it's eight, it's who you are and it's all of it.

And it's all of it. Okay. Okay. I love that so much. And what I love about this is we've spent all this time talking about, you know, where you come from, your family, your football careers. But now you're really, you're in your 30s, your early 30s, and you're entering your life. And your journey is going to be a powerful one.

Anna, I feel we both clearly feel very honored to speak to both of you about this. Emmanuel, let's talk about how uncomfortable conversations with a black man came about. One, I think it's, you know, amazing that that's just something that you're doing. And two, we were just talking about it before we got on the Zoom, is it's almost like the way that you wrote your book is something that should be taught in schools. Because you just lay it out, especially how you, you know, You've structured the book with the chapters. It's super clear. It's very concise.

Where did it start? So after the murder of George Floyd, Goldie, and Kate, I realize I have to do something. Emmanuel Lacho, he's a sports analyst, but before that, he's a black man. But before that, he's a human being. And it is my job to positively contribute to society. And so I realize, Kate, that there is a communication difference between white people and black people. What do you mean? In American, y'all speak English.

No, no, no, no, no. There is a communication difference based on your color and your culture. See, Kate, in high school, I took six years of Spanish. But I was never fluent in Spanish because I wasn't immersed in Spanish culture. I have some Spanish-speaking friends, and you better believe I love some Spanish music, even know how to salsa dance. But I wasn't immersed in Spanish culture, so I'm not fluent. The issue, Kate, is that white people, they haven't been immersed in black culture.

So they don't really know how to communicate with black people. And black people, they haven't necessarily been immersed in white culture. So I realized, Goldie and Kate, that the issue at hand is you have white people saying something and black people don't understand it. You have black people saying, hey, we're oppressed, hey, systemic racism, hey, racial injustice, hey, redlining. And white people are like, what do you mean, that Jim Crow laws were outlined 60 years ago? What if slavery doesn't exist? What do you mean oppression? And there's a communication barrier.

And so I preemptively said, let me answer these questions that I know white people have because I grew up with these white people and I heard the murmurs of, well, why can't I say the N-word? I mean, black people say it all the time. White privilege isn't real. Okay, but what about black on black crime in Chicago? Like, I heard the question. So I said, let me preemptively answer them because this will really start the bridge towards reconciliation.

So what was your first go into this? Was it starting with the show? I mean, how did you start to create the actual dialogue? Who did you call first? Great question. First person I called was Rachel Lindsay, the first black bachelorette. And I said, hey, I have an idea.

We have to do something. Let's call it questions white people have. We'll get three white people around the table, three black people around the table, and Goldie, the white people will pull out a pita. piece of paper, they'll ask the questions to the black people. Kate, the black people respond. We'll start a dialogue. Well, the problem, we're in the middle of a pandemic, so I couldn't get everybody together. So I said, okay, my white friend, a female, she'll just

drive down to Austin. She will ask me the questions. Remember, Kate, uncomfortable conversations with a black man, not uncomfortable monologue with a black man. The first episode was not supposed to be by myself. But my white friend at the last minute, she had a change of heart, Goldie. So now, an hour and six minutes before I'm in the studio, my white friend is crying. I can't do this, Emmanuel. I can't do it. They want to see you, not me.

I'm like, uh-oh, I got to do it myself. When I go into the studio, Kate, I put my head down. I say three, two, and on one, Goldie, I open up my eyes. I stare into the heart of the camera and nine minutes, 27 seconds later. The first episode had been done. We didn't edit. We didn't cut. We didn't do anything.

Not an elaborate producer, Kate. It was a wedding videographer who shot it. My best friend, an Olympic gold medalist in track, she stood in as my producer. After the first episode, six days later, I got a call from a no-caller ID number. Saturday morning, 835. I pick it up. Acho. McConaughey here.

I want to have a conversation. McConaughey? Like, Matthew? McConaughey? Yeah. He's got every longhorn on Google alerts. You know, every, whether. Oh, get this.

McConae and I, like, we weren't friends. So many people think, like, oh, you'll have a Longhorn connection. I'm like, I've talked to him twice in passing. So it's like, I want to have a conversation. I'm like, cool, I'll do episode two in four days. Let's do it tomorrow. McConaughey wants to do it tomorrow.

We do it tomorrow. So episode two, we do that the next day. Then all of a sudden, like, I see Jennifer Aniston had shared the video and Reese Witherspoon had reached out. And I'm like, uh-oh, what is going on here? So now I got another call from a no-call or ID number. Oprah Winfrey. Hey, Emmanuel, I love what you're doing.

I'd love to sit down on FaceTime with you. So we sit down on FaceTime for 45 minutes. Then I'm like, hey, Oprah, I want to write a book. She's like, books. I love books. She does. Isn't she the greatest? Don't you love her so much?

She's an amazing friend, partner, mentor on all of this. Amazing woman. That is how uncomfortable conversations with a black man came about. So you basically channeled about nine and a half minutes of your heart, of what was telling you that you wanted to express, you know? And by the way, I grew up in the 60s. Okay. So when I say I grew up, it was really the 50s. I was born in 1945.

So I saw a lot of things, a lot of things in my own town where I was a little girl looking at you can't drink in this water fountain, whites only, colors not allowed. And I was little, but it hurt me so much. There is that part of me that cannot handle, and I almost become tongue-tied to why people are so full of hate. and and you know this is something that i i feel so um i guess inspired by what you're doing and at the same time i have lived through so much um anger and hate and killing and hanging and and abuse and all of these things and and you know it's been years and years of thinking that we've made some

victory and i'm looking at what's happening and how we're dealing with this and and there's a part of me that just looks at this and says we are we have come a long way but we're not far enough and how do we change the mindset of people to understand that we are people that's it that's the bottom line and how do we help regenerate some of these areas that white supremacy has actually taken and made not so possible if you know what i mean i work in schools i have a program in schools right now how do we create racial justice how do we help our children understand i i am I'm opening my heart to you. I would say one thing very simply.

I would say that proximity, it breeds care and that distance, it breeds fear. Again, we talk about being caught and being taught. You can't teach someone something if you do not expose them to the very thing in which you're trying to teach them about. Let me elaborate on what I mean. I told you, we're first generation American. So we didn't grow up in our household with any animals, Goldie. We didn't grow up with any dogs, okay?

And so as a 30-year-old man now, from walking through a. dog park. I'll be like, oh my gosh, look at that cute little animal. And my friend will be like, no, no, it has rabies. And then we'll keep walking. I'll be like, oh, that dog looks dangerous. And they go up and pet it. See, Kate and Goldie, because I didn't grow up exposed to dogs, I can't decipher between a dog that is a pet and a dog that is a threat. In the same manner, if white people don't grow up exposed to black people in black culture, they won't be able to decipher between a black person that might just be cold and has this hood on, or someone that's mischievous, a black person if they don't go up with white people, Kate,

they can't decipher between the white person that is racist and the white person that is racially ignorant. So, Goldie, if we have intention but we have no direction, then it is completely void and without meaning. So how can we impact the next generation? It's not enough to outlaw segregation. You need to mandate integration. And I don't say that often, but it's actually true. It's not enough to outlaw segregation, which we did in the 1960s and whatnot. We have to mandate integration. And if we're not going to mandate integration with our nation, then you have to choose to mandate integration within your household. And I think that is the next step that must occur if we really want to make a change of generations going to be.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by that? Yeah. So if you grow up in your white household and your white cul-de-sac and you go to your white place of worship and your white schools and your white sports teams well how are you going to be surprised when you're older and you don't know about black culture when you older and you go to touch a black woman's hair and she snaps on you because you never learned that's something you don't do how do you know like yeah i probably shouldn't say oh you don't even talk like you're black okay if you don't if you're not exposed to something then how do you learn about that thing you learn about it on tv let me give you an example when our relatives from nigeria come to america uh chineadu called me by my Nigerian

name. Chineadu, where is this, these casinos? Where are they? See, we're in Dallas. We're in Dallas, Auntie. Okay, where is this Hollywood sign? No, no, no, no. We're in Dallas. You see, they don't know about America, so they think what America is what they see on TV. If you aren't exposed to black people, then you're going to think it is what you see in hip-hop culture. So when I say integration within your household, sports leagues, places of worship, temple, church, whereas small, grooves. Like we have to do a better job of intentionally educating ourselves and our cultures. My coach always used to tell me, Goldie, don't be like water, because water takes the easiest

route. If you pour water on the ground, it'll just take the past of least resistance. And that's what so many people in America do. Oh, well, I mean, it's not my fault. Like, I live in this neighborhood. It's not my fault that black people aren't here. It's not my fault that black people don't go to this school. It's not my fault that black people don't go to this church. We, we're not. It's not my fault that black people don't go to this church, we can't be like water because it will take the easiest route. Right. That's the only way, if we're being real about how do we solve racial reconciliation, Goldie, that's the only way you can because, Goldie, there's no way that white people,

generally speaking, the large subsect of white people, not individuals, but white people, can change their perception of a group unless they actually interact with said group. I can't change my perception of something until I interact with something. It's not until I started spending times at my friend's houses that have dogs. And I'm like, oh, this dog is kind of cute. And all of a sudden, I'm petting it and like giving it Eskimo kisses. I'm like, who am I? What am I doing?

But it's not until I have like exposure to something that I can truly change my mind. Well, because you integrated into your heart, into your life and into your knowledge. And it becomes something that has become identifiable with yourself. As my mother used to say, you know, where there's a colorblind. We don't look at any of that stuff. And that's how I grew up. So, yeah. That I think is something, you know, again, I mean, look, the uncomfortable conversation.

I think that saying you're colorblind is something that I don't even know what that means for me because it's like we do have different color skins. And your experience, you know, what you experience as a black man in America couldn't be more different based on the fact that we do have different color skins. and based on what, you know, the foundation of systemic racism, what our country was built upon. You can't fix a problem that you don't know exists. I've said this to Oprah before it, denial spelled D-E-N-I-A-L, don't even know I am lying. And you can't fix the problem you don't exist.

So in order to fix this issue, Kate, and Goldie, first we have to get everyone to acknowledge it does, in fact, exist. after getting them said person to acknowledge, hey, systemic racism and injustice does exist. If a black person and a white person have an equal resume, the person with the white-sounding name is twice as likely to get a job. It's not a manual actual opinion. Empirical data backs that up and studies show that. So now that you understand that, what can we do to fix it? Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, in many areas. What I like about what you're doing right now is bringing awareness to the conversation, opening up the conversation and making it difficult conversations

because they are. They are difficult. And there's a lot of guilt. There's so many things in terms of all of this that people are feeling. And, you know, including myself, which is an inability to really understand how to create this. And this is where we are working right now because our children are the ones that need to actually start learning these kind of things rather than trying to be intervention. Prevention is what we want. We want to prevent a different way. We want to create a new way of thinking and a different way of acting. What do we do? And I honor you for saying, I'm going to, I'm going to start with conversations. I'm going to start talking about it. And I don't care what you ask me. We're going to work on it together. If you could each leave our listeners with one

piece of advice or one uncomfortable question they should ask themselves what would it be? I would simply say to my white brothers

and sisters listening if I say that you have white privilege how did that make you feel? See I'll pause for a second to let that digest and soak that in again let me say that my that's my uncomfortable question, here's the statement I would leave them with. Understanding privilege is a gateway to understanding and bringing forth reconciliation. Kate, I was walking down the streets of Beverly

Hills the other day and I walked into a restaurant and I ordered my meal and they said, Emmanuel, I love your show, your video series, your meal is on me. See, that meal wasn't free because I was black. It wasn't free because I'm six, too. It was free because I have famous person privilege. That person knew who I was, so I was granted special access. Privilege is just simply immune. from something or access granted to something, what is the word that precedes privilege? So when talking about white privilege, it's just saying, it's not saying your life hasn't been hard. It's saying your skin color hasn't contributed to the difficulty in your life. As a white person, your life for sure has more than likely been hard as all our lives have, but your skin

color hasn't contributed to that difficulty. So if I can leave someone with one statement, it would be to say, understand you have privilege and do something with it. I'm sponsored by a company because of who I am. They give me a celebrity card to their company. I can eat there for free whatever I want. But with that card, I can also throw a party for up to 100 people. Chipotle. Dingo.

And because of that card, I throw that party for the homeless every year. Because of that privilege, I'm granted a certain card that allows me to have access to something. But what do I do with my privilege? So I would leave your listeners with this. understand that you have privilege. What are you doing with it for the benefit of those around you? Yeah, and the statement I would give the piece of advice going on that Chafolet example because there's a chapter in my book called Free Chifolet, which people have been saying

that's the favorite chapter. What I would say is this. And what I would say is this. I would say each and every one of us, this kind of alludes to the whole point and purpose of my book, right? Let the world see you how to be real and a world full of fakes. each and every one of us have something that we can bring to the table. For some of it, it's this candor, this desire to have an uncomfortable conversation. For some of us, it's our heart, right?

This emotion, this love that we have. For others of us, it's an ability to entertain, to work hard, right? Each of us have something we can bring to the table. For me, I believe it's my smile in a lot of ways. I remember in that chapter free Chipotle. I remember being an Arizona Cardinal going into Chipotle, and no one knew I played for the team, but I went in there every week because I love Chipotle. Who doesn't? And I go in there every week and I would talk to the people who work there,

talk to the staff, and go in and go out, didn't think too much of it. Well, one day, I think Emmanuel might have been in town that weekend. We just finished the workout and I was sweaty and I was smelly and I was dirty and all the things. I just wanted to swing in the Chipotle, get some food and get out. Well, this day I walked into Chipotle and I started my order and all of a sudden as I'm ordering my food, I got noticed. I got noticed. And Kay, you may understand what it's like to be noticed. Gold, do you may understand what it's like to be noticed? The manual, right? Even people listening, to be noticed when you don't want

to be noticed. And so I'm walking and ordering my food. Let me get a burrito, please, with some rice, some black beans. And going on and say, hey, are you, do you play football? I'm like, yeah, I do. I have my Texas football shirt on. All right, but moving on. Let me get some double chicken, sour cream. Hey, what, did you play at Texas? Yeah, I did. Well, okay, let me get some hot sauce. Let me get some of that, the lettuce and guac.

what do you do now? I play football. All right, let me go and get some chips. Let me get, I want to pay. Wait, are you Sam Macho? And at this point I got my card out. I'm ready to pay, get in, get out, and just please don't ask any more questions.

And so he says, are you Sam macho? I say, yes, I'm Sam macho. At this point, I feel like I've been discovered, sweat stains, it all, right? And he stops. And no, he didn't ask for an autograph. No, he didn't ask for a picture. He encouraged me.

He said, Sam, you come in here all the time. and each and every time you come in here, you encourage us. You smile. You're so nice to each and every one of our staff members. There's this thing that we have called a Chipotle card where you get free burritos for a year. We would love to nominate you for this card.

All of a sudden, Goldie, all of a sudden, Kate, I had all the time in the world. All the time. No longer was I had a restaurant. Long ago, was I ready to get in and to get out? I said, okay, well, what do you need? I'm ready. What do you need for me?

He said, all we need is your number. I said, okay, my phone number, my football number, my social security. number, whatever number you need, I will give it to you for this card, right? And fast forward all they needed by the grace of God was my phone number. I gave them my phone number. I got a call from a guy named Kennedy who was a regional director of marketing for Chipotle. You sat down for a meal, and a few months later, I got the coveted Chipotle card. And I tell that story to say that what I had to bring to that time, to that event, it wasn't my status, it wasn't my celebrity.

It was my smile. It was my kindness. It was my empathy. And that empathy, that kindness, me being me opened up a door that I could have never imagined would have been opened up. Got a chance to buy burritos for friends, for family, for random people who were behind me in line. I threw burrito parties for veterans, breedo parties for police officers, right? Because of I was being me.

That's so great. I was being me. I was smiling. I was loving people, right? And so my piece of advice is be you. To anybody listening, I would say be you, let the world see you. not the hiding, not the masks, not the fear, not the insecurity, right? All of you, right?

So there could be ups, there could be downs, right? Bring all of you to bear, because when you do, three things will happen. God will get the glory. The people around you will benefit and the world around you will thrive when you are. Authentic. You're authentic. Yes.

Okay, one word to describe your relationship. Unbreakable. And I said type. Okay. According to your parents, what would they say, who broke the rules the most? I mean. Emanuel. Yeah.

E. For me for sure. Emanuel. And then who is the one who was like, okay, I'm going to take care of everything. I'm the sibling that's like going to figure out what we're all doing and who's going where, what we're all going to play today. Stephanie. Okay. And she still does that.

She's like planning the vacations. She's like, no, this is. Absolutely. absolutely okay and then who's the one who was just down for everything Sam I think it's probably you I think you just kind of I feel like I was the peacemaker in a lot of ways so I was okay Emmanuel you might have your thing Chi Chi you might have your thing Stephanie I just can we just hang out can we just hang I just want to hang I just want to hang I mean even when we were younger Emmanuel and I would play basketball all the time as little kids just had a little hoop outside

and and I was a bigger kid and I was older so I would use would be winning in the games. I was just throwing that out there. And Emmanuel will get mad and just go inside and not want to play. And I'm like, I just want to play. I just want to play. You know what I mean?

And so I was the one who really just wanted to hang. Like, I really didn't have too much of an agenda. Just wanted to hang out. Music you listen to on repeat as kids. Nigerian and gospel. Oh, really? I love it. Is there one song that is just like?

One song is kids. No, one artist, Kirk Franklin, but not necessarily like one song. There's a song I remember. I don't even know who sang it. This was a Nigerian song, man. You remember this one. It just played in the car. It was like this whole, in the Nigerian song, they say, Jehovah is your name.

That song kept on red, in the car, it just came. I don't know who's artists. I don't know who. But, you know, so anyway, that's the song I remember. Who is more competitive in high school? I mean That's probably a tie Yeah

It's probably tough Sam bro for example Sam has our high school Shotfoot record I have our high school Discus record He set them both I broke one

I fell four inches short On the other So that's probably It's probably a tie Who would be more competitive in charades Yeah We're competitive

We're competitive Yeah we're competitive In different ways Emmanuel I don't know People don't think I'm super competitive But I'm the guy Who's like

We might be like jogging And I'm like I gotta get there first. You know, so we're competitive in different ways. All right. Who's more musical?

Me, by far. Emmanuel's more musical. What is your most annoying habit? What your brother? Like, does your brother have an annoying habit? This could be growing up.

Sam, I know you know I have some. Sam's most annoying habit, he's long-winded. Oh, that's my issue. I would say your most annoying habit, and it's, I feel like you're so direct. Like you don't even care about people's feelings at times, right? So for me, it's like, hey, bro, like empathize, like walk with me a little bit. But he's like, no, no, boom, straight to it, which is a positive, but also it's like, come on, man, like, give me some grace here, dude.

That's the greatest partnership of all. Yeah. It really is. It's amazing. It's great. Right now, who would win in a race? I would because your knee is jacked up. Yeah, probably Sam.

He's trained more recently. Yeah. If your brother could live on one food forever, what would it be? Sam, I'd say rice and stew for Sam. Like the Nigerian pad. Yeah. Sam's nodding his head like, yes. I'd say rice and stew.

I don't know. If I'll say like some vegetables, you'd be eating healthy than a mug. Oh, gosh. You're like steamed. vegetables and four ounces of salmon. So you're, so Emmanuel, you like, you go, if you have a cocktail, it's like, it's like straight tequila or something. Like, you don't. So I've never drank.

Oh, really? I've actually never drank once. Not once. Never drank, never smoked. I'm assuming never, oh, Sam, you too? I gamble. Gambling's my vice. Okay.

That can be kind of visey, you know. Yeah, unless you're winning. I could get you into as much trouble. That's your winning. This man stays in the casinos. So I've had a, I'm not a huge drinker. I remember turning 21 taking my first drink, right? And I'm being like, I don't really see what people are so excited about.

But yeah, I'm not a big, I'm not a big alcohol guy. I think we never saw it in our house. So it's kind of never something we never really, at least Emmanuel and I never really felt, felt like a need for. And then also in addition to that, in athletics, oftentimes in sport, alcohol is not really the best thing for your body. And so, like, me, I'm like, I'm trying to be the best. So let me do what I needed to get there. All right. Favorite movie growing up?

First movie I ever watched was Remember the Titans in fifth grade. And so we were really, you know, Nigerians, we weren't really like movie buffs. But my favorite movie growing up, I'm going to say The Matrix. Oh. Mine was a, mine was crouching tiger, hidden dragon. Oh, my God. Yes. But not one of a movie.

What's crazy, I think that's sub-trial. I've tried to like rewatch it three years ago. Don't have the attendance fan. All the subtitles. I loved it. I literally crawling, climbing up walls. Like how do they do? Great movie.

Great movie. Such a good movie. Okay. Last but not least, this is what we always end our podcast with. Emmanuel, you go first. What the question is, is what is one thing that you would love to alleviate from your sibling? What is one thing that, to sort of optimize their life and the other side of?

of that is what is something that you would love to emulate that your brother has? Okay, alleviate I would probably say current career ambiguity. My brother played nine years in the NFL and this is its first year outside of the NFL

and the transition is hard. He's the smartest man I know literally, but the transition from the NFL, something you've done for nine years, football, something you've done for 20 years to now move into another sphere, incredibly difficult. I know that because I had to do it first. I left the NFL four years

ago. So that's probably what I would alleviate. What I would emulate anything. I mean, there's a litany of things. I would probably emulate his patience and his grace with people. I have a ton of patience and grace and uncomfortable conversations, but in life, I do not have patience nor grace at all for anything. So I would probably want to emulate. In fact, like Sam really likes to talk to people and, like, hear people and listen to people and care about them and what, and I'm just like, hey, we got to do something else, got to do something else, got to do something else. So I would probably like to emulate that if I could tolerate it. I might hate myself.

Okay, Sam. Yeah, I'll start with the emulate, if I may. I would love to emulate Emmanuel's confidence. Emulate his confidence. It seems like everything he does. he does it with like this knowledge and foresight that it is going to work, right? Even if he hasn't done it before, I remember the night before he released uncomfortable conversations, I got a call.

And I was filming something for something else. And he called me and he says, hey, Sam, I'm about to film this thing. But he said, before he said it, he said, I just feel like we were made for this. So what do you mean? I said, I felt we were made for this moment, the way we grew up, the color of our skin, And even just everything that that's going on, I feel like we were made for this moment, right? George Ford had just got killed.

We were made for this moment. I'm kind of like, okay, you do things all the time. Great, good luck with whatever you're about to film, right? Well, fast forward the very next day, a cunderable conversations begins. And so just he had this, this, this, this, he knew it was going to work. Social media. He's been doing, like, he's been, things have been going viral.

He's been making things go viral for years, right? He just knows it's going to work. So I love to emulate that. confidence just to go to one thing and go there and know it's going to work. The thing I love to alleviate, I don't even know if this is a pressure for him, but one of the things I love, so like people ask me, Sam, if you could do anything all day, what would you do? Like, what would job, whatever? Like, I love hanging out with my wife and my kids. That's all I love to do, right? Like, I literally, if I can think anything, I just hang out with my wife and my kids all day, no work,

no nothing. That's what I would do. And I know, obviously, like, being 30 and then having this huge platform and like people are you know especially women chomping at the bit and then it's like who do you trust and what do you do i'd love to alleviate just this idea of man i don't know and i don't know if you feel this way but i don't know who i can trust especially when it comes to a relationship and so if you can just get if you know if the desire was man i'd love to have a wife and kids one day just to cut all cut out all the crap and just i know you know what i mean so that's what i would alleviate um it's not a pressure for everyone some people it's like hey i'm good i'm doing my thing, but I know for me, um, I feel like what you're saying is love. I am. I am. I really

am. I think it's a love piece. You know, it's a love piece. There's a lot of people, you can have all the money in the world, all the fame of the followers. One of the best things we were hanging out in Los Angeles a couple days ago for Emmanuel's 30th birthday party and book release. And the thing that impressed me the most about it is he said, hey man, I don't do this for the fame. I don't do it for the follows. I don't do it for the clicks. I don't do it for the money. I don't do it for any of it. He said, I do it for you. And he wasn't just talking about me. There was about 30 of our closest friends. We were socially distanced, but in a space together, 30 of his closest friends all together that came in the midst of a pandemic to celebrate with him. So he said, I do it for you.

Yes, I talk about love, but what I, another piece I did emulate, I know I'm taking two. I'm not supposed to. Don with the man. I get it. It's just this idea like he, when you ride with the manual, you ride for life. You know what you're talking about? You're talking about belonging. Yeah. No, even more so, even more so, even more so, Goldie. Like when you are with Emmanuel, you are with him for life.

For me, my friendships, I feel like can be very transient. I'm on one team, on one team, on one team, I'm your best friend for a day or a week or a month or a year. The next week I'm moving on. Emmanuel's had friends for the last 20 years, 20 years, still showing up to his stuff. So awesome. Right? So that's another thing I'd emulate. I love it.

so much you guys thank you i i and i know my mom's been saying this the whole time but speaking to you knowing like i said before this this journey you want you are on you know whatever happened in that household when you guys were kids there is a god sent gift that you both have to share and communicate and i feel lucky to have had this conversation i hope we can continue it and we stay connected. And thanks for sharing with us. This was so much fun. And I also feel very privileged to be with you and to hear your spirit and understanding of nature and all of the things that you are and what you're giving back to. And you're going to be a part of so much change and shift. It's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. We'll see you.

Sibling Revely is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Alison Bresnick. Music by Mark Hudson. a.k.a. Uncle Mark. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time

as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. The moment is a space for the conversations we've been having us, father and daughter for years.

Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Introducing IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. It grew like a tech startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients. You think you're finally, like, in the right hands.

You're just not. Listen to IVF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a cold January day in 1995, 18-year-old Krista Pike killed 19-year-old Colleen Slemmer in the woods of Knoxville, Tennessee. Since her conviction, Krista has been sitting on death row. How does someone prove that they deserve to live? We are starting to recording now. Please state your first and last name. Krista Pike.

Listen to Unrestorable Season 2, Proof of Life, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.