Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - The Five Love Languages with Dr. Gary Chapman

Episode Date: February 17, 2021

Dr. Gary Chapman is a pastor, counselor, speaker, and author of "The Five Love Languages." He sits down with Kate and Oliver to discuss how the five love languages came to be, how they can apply to all aspects of life and different types of relationships, love languages in the time of quarantine, and more.Executive Producers: Kate Hudson and Oliver HudsonProduced by Allison BresnickEdited by Josh WindischMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is powered by Simplecast.This episode is sponsored by Sakara and Coors Light.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece,

we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special. So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with the co-host feature you can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos.

Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. The Moment is a space for the conversations we've been having us father and daughter for years. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos

on the IHeart Radio app, podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story.

It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And what it's like to be siblings.

We are a sibling rivalry. No, no. Sibling rivalry. Don't do that with your mouth. Sibling, revelry. That's good. Oliver, this was maybe one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. Oh, me too.

So Dr. Gary Chapman wrote The Five Love Languages. Yes. And since we have had them on, which has literally been a week. I mean, we did this like a week ago, I got. Three of them. I got the five love languages of teenagers. I can't wait to read that one. I didn't even know he did that one.

Neither did I. I got the five love languages of children. And then I got just the regular one. It's so great. I bought a mom and pa one too and they love it. I think too, it's almost like it's like one of the stories he tells, which I'm not going to ruin.

But it's one of the stories he tells where you, when he put. it in a way where you understand it's like creating a new dictionary of love like oh that's me you can relate to something that you didn't realize you could actually categorize and look at and go oh i have a love language and now i didn't even know that that was my love language and that was what wasn't feeling like it was being met you know and then totally and then we you know i i remember when i first did the quiz and with Danny and we both are number one is quality time which is why even when we have sort of we don't have like like rough patches sound stupid but you know when we have our moments it's

sort of we know that we're really good we can reset really well when we spend time together and we do something together and it's just us you know yeah it was valentine's day i know and Danny created this picnic and it was so beautiful and he like put it all out and did you know he loves doing the picnics and we had wine and I thought to myself like that's all I want is that time with him you know that's just us I know that's so fun I forgot I forgot that five love languages Dr. Gary Chapman is coming out in our valentines to sort of our like our Valentine's Day week yeah It's the week of love.

And he also, we were talking about how you can have more than one. And I'm mine, I have two that are really close together, right? So I'm quality, time, and words of affirmation. And you are like 500% physical touch. Okay. Oh, no, no, no. I was waiting for you to finish because I redid it after we had him on. Yeah.

But actually, honestly, I did it for the first time. I just assumed that I was physical touch. And I am, but I'm exactly even with quality time. So I'm quality time and physical touch. Okay. It was almost like 33%. That's Danny. So Danny is the same.

He's quality time and physical touch. What's Aaron? Oh, acts of service like 100%. Okay. And quality time. I'm with you. No. It's quality time and act.

She's like, just do things for me. Exactly. She doesn't need me to be there, just as long as I do things. Physical touch is like her least. Yeah, isn't that funny? It's, and again, it's because she had so much of it. Exactly. It's really interesting how you become or how your love language becomes your love language.

Yeah, it's a good point. I mean, is it learned or is it nature or nurture? I mean, it's got to be a little bit of both. But I mean, if you think about it, we're both quality time and that like kind of focus of energy means that we feel loved, which means we probably needed more of that when we were younger, that was something that lacked in, you know, it's a little bit more quality time was a need, you know, which then probably translates into that as a relationship that when you have that, it's what makes you feel the most love. You know, it's so interesting is when Dr. Gary came on, I was, like, shocked because I was picturing some, like, rock and roll guy or something like, language is love, man, like, woo, like, you know, some like, like, grateful dead. Like, Bob Weir.

Yeah, he was like a grateful dead. It's like Phil Lesh. Yeah, like Phil Lesh. And it was not, I mean, he's, he's just wearing the suit and the tie and, you know. Yeah. He talks a bit about how. this came about for him and oh I love it and you know what I realized too it's like people love love love love is not easy and it's like something that people like we take love for granted

a lot of the time and it's also the one thing that is the hardest it's like when you look at people everyone's searching to feel loved and to give love and to find love and I mean love's like the big subject matter of life. Well, I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's the, it's the foundation, right? I mean, that's it. Yes, and yet it, and yet it seems so challenging all the time, meaning like getting your heartbroken or chasing the wrong types of love or with your kids and having complicated relationships sometimes with your kids.

And, I mean, love seems to be at the same. center of all of that. And he really does, he did say one thing. And I again, I don't want to ruin it, but it made me really think. And I can't stop thinking about it, which is being heard. And I think that's such a huge thing, kids, like listening to your kids, feeling like a big part of love is trying to understand how someone else needs to feel loved. Love is as selfless as it gets. Especially with the kids. I mean, that was a big thing for me because I always put it into my terms when I read

his book, but I never thought about my children because I sort of loved them all the same way. And then after having this conversation with, I'm like, oh, shit, I never put that into the children's perspective and loving your kids the way that they need to be loved, you know? I sat banged down literally after we had the interview with Dr. Chapman and I asked him flat out, I said, what makes you feel the most loved? And he was like, what do you mean? And I said, we had this really cool conversation with this doctor talking about how we all have love languages. And he was so, engaged in the conversation like he he loved it and then I we gave him all of the love languages like

and I said you know where do you feel like you're the safest like where do you feel like you're getting what you need and it makes you feel like mommy loves you you know and you're so loved and everything's good and he was like oh physical touch hands down he's like I just want to cuddle like physical touch did you did you tell him there's a gift one? Or did you hold that one back? Yeah. Yes. I told him a gift. But I said it's not. There's actually four languages of love. I told her about the gift one, but I, but Danny reiterated, you know, gifts aren't about things. Gifts are about like mommy picking you a flower and bringing it to you in the morning, you know, or something like that, you know. Yeah. I'm going to do the kids. I'm going to like,

I want to sit them down and do the quiz with them. That would be fun. It's fun. And when he said that, it's true because that's how he shows love, like how he is with Ronnie. He just wants to like make her feel love by holding her. And, you know, Ronnie was having a little bit of a melt, a two-year-old meltdown. And Bing just like held her today. And he said, it's okay.

You're fine. It's okay. You're totally fine, Ronnie. And I was like, oh, my God, Bing's nature is to touch. totally that's that's that's obvious i think because being hugs and comes up to you and doesn't say anything it just will hug you and you know he's very touchy feeling and rider is a full words of affirmation like you got yeah he looks good you got everything fine yeah yeah you know they're all different it's

really interesting i know i think everyone needs this book like everyone at least needs to know what their love language is and their partners you know yeah it's important and it will it helps i mean it truly helps i mean it just helps you communicate it's it's it's a fact but anyway yeah it this was such a lovely conversation he was so nice and lovely he had such a calm yeah i know i'm gonna like want to be my therapist i know just just for like the celebrity aspect. I'm like, you know what my therapist is? Five love languages, don't a good chat. That's my guy. Oh, all right. Well, I love you. I love you too. Oh, wait, but we also didn't mention that because I was going to say something. I was like about love languages and

siblings and family, but he also talked about the workplace. Yes. Which I think is really interesting because there's so many people that feel really unhappy in their work life. and they feel underappreciated and undervalued. And that's, it's, I think the numbers were pretty shocking. So he also talks about how you can, you can take these love languages into the office place and he does that too. Eliminating the physical touch. He talks about that. Clearly, this is not, you know, physical touch is not something that you just,

go up to and start touching someone who feels uncomfortable, right? But he talks about physical touch, like asking yourself, do you feel left out when someone gives someone else a high five? Is that something that makes you feel good? When someone comes back, gives you a high five or kind of punches you on the shoulder a little bit, like, you know, there is a language of physical touch in the workplace that can be appropriate, clearly. if you go up and, you know, touch somebody and they're like, please don't touch me, then

you don't touch them. Sure. Or if you're like, you're like, Alan, look, I just want to do some more high fives. I just think that will make me feel more. I'll just feel better in the office place. It's like, when you pass me, just do me some high fives. Yeah. And then Alan's like, that makes me uncomfortable. Is there something else I can do? Maybe just tap my desk, you know, like, Give me a little knock on my desk. Anyway, this was great. He's amazing. And it's not just the one book.

I read a couple of them on the beginning of this intro, but there are also a few other ones. So pick them up. Pick them up. It's good stuff. All right. Love you. Love you.

We're so excited. excited. Thank you for joining us. We had to be with you. We just have to say that this book has been a part of our relationships now for a long time. Yes. Good, good, good. I am such a fan of your work and what this has not only created, but honestly, I think that there's a lot of people out there who know this book,

that it's changed the way they see themselves in relationships. Yeah, yeah. And I guess the first question off the bat is, I mean, I'm sure this is years of work in the making, but what sort of prompted you to start moving into talking about what a love language is? You know, like, how did that come about? Yeah. Well, it was not an idea that just jumped in my mind one day. It really grew out of my counseling. And the first time I remember becoming aware of the reality that what makes one person feel loved, it doesn't make another person feel love. It was a couple.

and I've never seen them. I found out they've been married to each other for 30 years. And as she said in the midst of the counseling, the first session, she said, Dr. Chapman, the real problem in our marriage is, I don't feel any love coming from him. We're just like roommates living in the same house. He does his thing. I do my thing.

And I just don't feel any love. She said, it's just like I feel so empty. And she said, I just can't go on like this. I looked at him and he said, I don't understand her. I do everything I can to show her that I love her. And she sits there and says she doesn't feel love. I say, well, what do you do to show your love to her? He said, well, I get home from work before she does.

So I start the evening meal. And sometimes I have it ready when she gets home. If not, she'll help me. And then we eat. And after we eat, he said, I watch the dishes. And he said, on Thursday night, I vacuum the floors. And every Saturday, I watch the car. I mow the grass.

I help her with the laundry. And he went on, and I was beginning to wonder, what does this woman do? It sounded to me like he was doing everything. And he said, I do all of that. And she says she doesn't feel love. Well, I look back at her and she started crying. And she said, Dr. Chapman, he's right. He's a hardworking man.

But we don't ever talk. We haven't talked in 20 years. He's always mowing the grass, washing the dish, always doing something. something. And I realized here was a sincere husband who was loving his wife in the best way he knew how and a wife who didn't get it. And after that, I heard similar stories over and over in my office. And I knew there had to be a pattern to this. So eventually what I did was sit down and read several years of notes that I made when I was counseling and ask myself the question. when someone said, I feel like my spouse doesn't love me, what did they want?

What were they complaining about? And the answers fell into five categories. And I later call them the five love languages. And I started using that in my counseling. If you want her to feel love, you've got to express love in her language. If you want him to feel love, you've got to use his language. And I would help couples discover their love language, challenge them to go home and try it. And sometimes they would come back in three weeks and say,

Gary, this is changing everything. I mean, the whole climate's different now. And then I started using with small groups of couples. And probably five years later, I thought, you know, if I could put this concept in a book, write it in the language of the common person, leave out the psychological jargon. Maybe I could help a lot of couples. I would never have time to see my office. That's how it all happened.

And little, did you even, did you expect this to be as. massive as it became? Absolutely not. I knew the concept would help people, but I had no idea that it would sell now. They told me a week ago 15 million copies in English. And it's been translated in over 50 languages around the world. Wow.

But it's so important. You know, we talk a lot on our podcast about family, but it all comes down to love and how you feel loved. And you really did boil it down to something. that at least my brain can relate. Like the way that your book is written out and then when you take the quiz, you know, you take like a love language quiz

and everything. And you hear it, you're like, yes, I am definitely a words of affirmation person, right? I need to communicate. Oliver is all physical. He just needs people to like, you know. You can tell me how great I am. It doesn't mean a thing.

You know, I'm like, you know, You can do dishes, you can take this, that, and try it. I'm like, just touch me. That's all I care about. And it does change. It's almost like it changes your brain chemistry. I mean, I'm going to share something, honey, do you mind if I share something about our experience? Okay.

So we were arguing and we're always trying to figure out how we can, like, love each other in the best way. We know how. And we were having an argument. And I looked at Danny, I could sense that he was. feeling so much anxiety. And I realized that his love language is touch. And I just went over to him and I kind of just put my hand on him. And I was like, you know, baby, I love you. And his whole body chemistry shifted. And that's when I was really like, wow, for me, if Danny affirms something for me, tells me, I love you, I hear you, I understand what you're saying. What you're saying is

this. You're very talented actor. No, no. It's not even that. You're a great business woman. It's more like I need to know we're okay. Can you have all of them? Can you have all of them? Yeah. I have people who say to me, you know, my wife

has all five of them. My husband has all five of them. And I say, well, that means anything you do, you get credit for it. But I think I find that most commonly among people who are two kinds of people one people who always felt love growing up their parents probably spoke all these languages you know more or less and they've always fell up and they got married and their spouse tends to speak all of them and they feel love and they don't know which one is more important than the other it's just they fill up and in that case i say don't worry about it you know if you feel love that's that's the whole purpose so but the other the other typical thing is

it's the person who grew up who never felt love They didn't feel love by their parents. They grew up to adults, not feeling loved. Maybe they get married. Maybe they don't, but they have relationships. And they just, they don't, they don't fill up. And in their mind, they really, they don't really know what does it feel like to feel love? They don't know.

And that's a much deeper problem, of course, which you have to look back and in their, in their past. And probably, and one of the things I've seen to be effective is if, if they understand the love language concept and they look on their childhood, they'll probably see that their parents did speak one or more of these languages. It's just they didn't get it because that was not their language. In fact, I had a young single adult. I was speaking in Angola prison in Louisiana and about 300 men showed up. And I said, I just want to explain to you, help you understand why you felt love or didn't feel love growing up. And I shared the love languages in that concept, in that context. And the young man stood up at the Q&A, a judgment to be about 30. And he said, I want to thank you for being here today. Because for the

first time in my life, I understand my mother loves me. He said, you gave those languages. And I knew my language as soon as I heard it was physical touch. He said, my mother never hug me. The only hug I ever remember getting from my mother was the day I left for prison. Then he said, but you gave those other languages. And I realized my mother spoke acts of service. He said she was a single mom. She kept, had two jobs. She kept food on the table.

She washed my clothes. She ironed my shirts. And this time he was crying. And he said, Mama loves me. Mama loves me. And I cried. Oh, of course. I'm going to start crying.

Yeah, the fundamental thing that will make, it's like you said, like, love is the answer, but like it really is the answer. You know what's interesting, though, is there is sacrifice you have to make in trying to give your partner the love language that they need because I find that sometimes maybe if acts of service is not easy for me or, you know, physical touch might not be easy for me to give because it, you know, you have to be vulnerable to do that, you know, so there's a struggle there. I mean, do you find that I, you have patients or clients who you, they know their love languages, but it's just so difficult for them to act on it.

Yeah, it does take effort. There's no question about it. And if your spouse or your friend, if they're number one is your number five, that is the least important to you, there's a learning curve. Yeah. Because first of all, you can't imagine that that would be meaningful to them because it's not meaningful to you. So you have to accept the reality that we're different. And then it is a choice. Yeah, we choose to communicate love in their language or not.

I had a husband say to me some time ago, he said, Gary, my wife and I read your book, and we took the quiz, and she tells me that her language is acts of service. But I'm going to tell you and her, if it's going to take my washing dishes and my vacuuming floors for her to feel love, she can forget that. I'm out. Right. Yeah. And I said, that's your choice. I said, love is a choice.

I said, if you choose to live with a wife who has what I call an empty love tank, then that's your choice. I said, I much prefer to live with a wife who has a full love tank. I've lived with both. Same woman, the early years, empty love tank, later years, full love tank. I said, I much prefer the latter woman. I said, that's why I wash the dishes and I vacuum the floor and I take out the trash. And she tells me that I'm the greatest husband in the world.

So she likes an active service. That's like my wife, too. I mean, if I'm doing dishes or, you know, vacuuming or just cleaning in general, it's all she loves it. I mean, she actually feels amorous and is like, you know, I mean, it's funny how that sexuality, though, does translate into love language as well, because there's a connectedness that you feel and it's a turn on as well. Yeah, no question about it, too. And particularly, if a wife does not feel loved by the husband, there can be little desire for intimacy. You know, but if she feels love, it's far, far easier and far more likely. She's drawn to him because she feels his love.

Yeah, it affects all the rest of life. Dr. Chapman, for the listeners that don't know what the five languages are, can you just quickly go through what the five are? Sure, and these are no particular order of importance. One is words of affirmation, which we've been talking about, you know, just looking for things about your spouse or your friend that you appreciate and verbalizing it. There's an ancient Hebrew proverb that says life and death is in the power of the tongue. You can kill people by the way you talk to them or you can give them life.

For some people, words is what makes them fill up. And then there's acts of service, which we've been talking about, doing things for the other person. Remember the old saying, action speak louder than words. If this is your language, they will speak louder than words. If it's not your language, they may not speak louder than words. And then there's gifts. It's universal to give gifts as an expression of love. The gift says they were thinking about me.

Look what they got for me. And the gift doesn't have to be expensive. We've always said it's the thought that counts. But I remind people, it's not the thought left in your head that counts. It's the gift that came out of the thought in your head. Okay. And then quality time, giving them your undivided attention. And I do not mean sitting on the couch watching television.

together. Someone else is your attention. TV is off. Computers are down. We're not answering our phone. We're looking at each other. We're listening. We're talking. We're sharing thoughts and ideas and feelings. We're really giving them our undivided attention. And it doesn't always have to be a sit-down conversation. There are many dialects within all of these languages. It can be planting a flower garden in the front yard. But the thing is, the important thing is not the flower garden. The important thing is you're giving your time here with me to do something I enjoy to it. So quality time and then physical touch. And we've long known the power of physical touch, the emotional power. That's why we pick up babies and hold them and kiss them and cuddle them.

Long before the baby understands the meaning of the word love, the baby feels love, but physical touch. So, and the basic idea, of course, is that out of the five, each of us has a primary love language. Listen, we're not going to, we're not going to reject any one of these. We can feel love in any one of these. but one of them is primary. And if we don't get the primary, we will not feel loved, even though the other person is speaking some of the other languages. Now, was there a sixth that didn't make the cut? You know, I only discovered five, and I wasn't dogmatic.

And since then, people have told me, you know, one guy said, Dr. Chedman, there is a six love language. I said, what is it? He said, chocolate. I said, well, if they bought it, it's a gift. If they made it, it's an active service. When I did the survey, it was actually the number count was tied. So I was quality time and then words of affirmation.

So when that happens, is it because just two things are as important as the other, usually? Yeah, there are people for whom number one or number two are very, very close. I call them bilingual. Right. Okay. Either one of these are going to really speak deeply to me. And in a sense, that makes it easier for the. the other person because there's two things they can do, you know, and either one of them is going to

really speak loudly to the other person. Is there any follow-up, you know, I mean, is there any way to expand on this book or bring something else out, you know, or? Well, you know, I've written a whole series of books. That was the original book. And then the second one was the five love languages of children. It's written to parents of elementary age children. Oh, that's great. Yeah. And it is powerful. I say to parents, the question is not, do you love your children? the question is, do your children feel loved? Yes. Yeah.

I mean, parents by nature love their children, you know. I thought you were going to say, do you like your kids? I was, I was, that's another thing. Questions, do you like them? Yeah, then the next in the series was the five love language of teenagers, because teenagers are different. They're going through a different stage of life, and how do you effectively love them there? And then for single adults, five love languages for singles.

And there, I apply the concept to their relationship. you with their parents, their siblings, their college roommates, their dating partners, their work associates. And then I wrote one for military couples called a military addition. And I wrote that because so many, I spoke on many, many military bases and so many military chaplains and others said, you've got to write one for the military and deal with. How do we express love when we're deployed? Love that. And we interviewed scores and scores of military couples to get ideas because the military had been using the original book for years. We got great ideas. For example, you would think that physical touch would be impossible

if you're half a world away. One lady said, Gary, I knew his love language as physical touch. So while he was deployed, I put my hand on a sheet of paper, I trace my hand, and I mailed it to him with a note that said, put your hand on my hand. I want to hold your hand. Oh, God. And he said, Gary, every time I put my head on that paper, I felt her. So it's not literal, but it's emotional. Yeah, that's too much. That's too much for me.

Oh, God. Yeah. Now, are the language is the same within the book? It's just about how they're perceived by the teenager. Same language is just applying it in different settings. Yeah. And more recently, I've done several co-author books, one, how this works. in a blended family because parent, step parent is there's different dynamics there in a

biological family. So we deal with that. One is how to love languages applies when you lose a baby because that puts a stress on a marriage. Often the grieving processes are different and so forth. And then how this works with special needs children because again, the dynamics are different. So in all of these basically have come by request of people and I teamed up with someone who, had used the love language in all of these settings, you know. And so if I do a co-author, I'm going to author with someone that knows more about the subject than I do. And they've, they've taken the five love things and applied it, you know, in that area. And so, yeah, we're just, we're just trying to touch people where they are and help them out of various.

It's so wonderful. With kids, I got to read that one because it makes so much sense now. I mean, I never applied it to my children for some reason. My oldest, wilder, you know, he's sort of sensitive in physical. Like, you touch him and he gets a little squirmy. And for me, I get frustrated. I'm like, let me just fucking love you. But now I'm realizing that's not his thing. You know what I mean?

Like, that physical is not his, the way that he wants to feel love. Well, or my question would then be, too. Or is it that he doesn't, he's not understanding how to receive it? I don't, I don't know. You got to go into therapy. Dr. Chapman. Do you have an answer to this? Well, you know, you can actually discover a child's love language by the time they're four

years old by just observing their behavior. Yeah. When my son was at age and I would come home from work, he would run to the door, grab my legs and climb on me. He's touching me because he wants to be touched. My daughter never did that. At that age, she would say, Daddy, come into my room. I want to show you something.

She wanted quality time, undivided attention. attention. And of course, they're grown now. But it's like, Ronnie's like, don't touch me. Her daughter. My daughter. No, no, no, no. Don't touch me. Don't touch me. Just two and a half. Yeah, two and a half. She wants, she might be a words of affirmation. Coors light. It is a beer that is made to chill. To chill. So these days, everything is go, go, go, go, go, go. Everything. Right. It's nonstop. You're hustling all the time. You got to hit the reset button. And that's when you reach for a course light. The mountains are blue.

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It's Sakara, S-A-K-A-R-A-com slash sibling. To get 20% off your first order, sakkara.com slash sibling. One thing I really want to know, because I talk about this all the time, when you're in an argument or when you're in a place where you're not able to give your partner what they need to feel better. Like if we're both not receiving the love language, what do you do? like if you're so shut down because I know it happens to so many people where it's like I just need you to touch me or you know I need you to tell me something like I don't want to

you know I don't I'm not there yeah well first of all we can't demand love I mean you can demand it but you're not likely to get it by demanding it yeah you know love it love is a choice that everyone must make and and love starts with an attitude that that I want to enrich your life you know how can I make your life easier how can I help you accomplish your goals in life it's an attitude and it's also an emotional need but we don't start with the emotions but there are times that we don't feel emotionally like we want to love them but if we understand this concept and how important it is we choose to speak their love language even though we're not emotionally pushed to do so because we know if I'm going to help them the first deepest one of the deepest needs

they have is the need to fill up. So I'm going to choose to speak that love language, even though I don't feel it. Now, that doesn't mean, but when a person says, you know, I need you to do this, I need you, they're begging you to speak their love language. And something has happened in the relationship that's caused you to be cold or hurt or, you know, there's a fracture between you. I think two things. One is to say, you know, honey, I hear what you're saying, but I have to be honest with you.

i'm feeling a lot of hurt i'm feeling a lot of disappointment and and if you're open i'll share with you why and we can work through this and so if they're open then you say you know last night or last week whenever da da da da da this is how i felt and it's almost like i just shut down and i don't know if you meant it meant it that way but that's what i heard and that's what i felt and then they have a chance to either apologize or to explain it that that that that's from their perspective that was not what they were trying to communicate because that's you know we can't read minds and and that's why i suggest the couples every day have a sit down and listen time it might just be 15 minutes and notice i say sit down and listen not sit down and talk

because if i say let's sit down and talk it means i want to tell you something but i want to sit down and listen i want to hear what your thoughts have been today what's one of the things you've been thinking what have you been feeling today what could i do that might rich your life or help you i'll make life better for you yeah and i'm listening to you as you share that and then you you listen to me as i share you do that on a regular basis you stay connected you keep the barriers you know from building up into a wall do you think it's more difficult for men to do that than it is for women as far as i think it is for some men it all depends on how you were raised you know and I mean, some men were raised where you're not supposed to have feelings, you know.

You start crying. Don't cry. You know, you're a big boy. Don't cry, you know. Well, humans cry if they're hurt, you know, I don't care male or female. Yeah. So a lot has to do with how, you know, we're raised. What happens if you have a son who cries too much?

It's a good question, though. I mean, we're making a joke, but it's true. I think the important factor, important thing, if he is crying, is to listen. Ask questions and listen. What made you cries? What made you call honey? Something I said or something, and listen to what they say. Because then you will also learn something of what's going on to their minds if you're asking questions and listening to what stimulated the tears. And that's the only way we can address it. If we know what's stimulating the tears, then we can address the underlying thing. I mean, you're saying something right now to me

that I'm hearing and it's all about listening and how you're listened to. And I think that just generationally, the world we're living in now versus 150 years ago, to sit and to listen was like a privilege, the working, you know, survival. We don't have time to listen to our issues. It's a very interesting concept that out of like love, I mean, really, I just want to be heard. And you know, there's there's the old idea on the part of some parents is that children are to be seen and not heard. I don't want to hear what you have to say. I'm the parent here. You're going to do what I say. So the kid grows up feeling like, you know, they don't have a right to say anything.

And I remember when our son was coming along and he was a teenager at this time. And he said to me, he said, dad, I know you have the final word. I just want you to hear me. And that was, that was a wake up call for me, you know. Yeah. And I, and I, okay, son, I hear you. And so I started asking him questions, you know, about whatever the topic was, you know, his feelings, his thought, his perceptions, and why he felt what he felt. And because I listened to him, and he was more open to listen to me as I explained the

reasons why I was, you know, suggesting what we're going to do. So, yeah, I mean, no question about it. Parents are the authority figures in a home and we have to make decisions. I mean, we hopefully we know more than our kids, and we want to make decisions that are going to be for their good and their benefits. So we don't do everything they want us to do. But we do need to treat them as individuals and persons of worth. And if they grow up feeling like that they're loved by their parents and that they can talk to their parents about anything, we're preparing them to have, you know, good adult experiences.

What about applying these sort of love languages to your work, I mean, or to your relationships with, people that aren't necessarily loving intimate relationships, but your friendships and even the sibling dynamic, because it's a very different kind of relationship, like, Oliver needs physical touch. Like, I'm not going to, like, come up and, like, touch him all the time to feel weird. Right? You know, like, how do you apply those things? Just don't touch me, like, too much. I think, I think the concept does apply in the workplace. workplace relationships. In fact, I wrote a book with Dr. Paul White, who was a psychologist who had 20 years experience in business called The Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace.

We use the word appreciation because it's the same need. It's the need that I'm valued as a person. I'm not just a cog in the machine in this company. My colleagues and my supervisor, they value me as a person. And we simply took the love languages to work. Now, the one place we got pushback from the HR people is on physical touch. And they said, oh, we don't touch at work. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

Yeah. So what does it become? Yeah. So we discussed in that book, you know, the whole thing of physical abuse and sexual abuse and all that stuff. But what we did find is that almost no one had physical, in the workplace, had physical touch as their primary appreciation language. Right.

It might be their love language in other, you know, relationship, but not at work. So what we said in the book was, if you see a colleague that's giving people high fives, great, give them a high five. If they hit people on the shoulder, hit them on the shoulder. But if you don't ever see them touch anybody else, don't touch them. Right. And if you do touch them and they stiffen up, don't ever touch them again. Yeah. But yeah, it does, it does have an application in the workplace.

70% of the people who have a job in this country say they feel little to no appreciation coming from the people with whom and for whom they work. 64% of the people who leave a job and go to another job say they left primarily because they didn't feel appreciated where they were. It's a huge area in the workplace. Wow, that's really interesting. Yeah, I mean, when you think about creating workplace environments, I mean, I think about this all the time

and constantly like putting the effort towards creating a positive work environment where people feel like they're, I mean, to me, I know that I'd want to be heard, you know, and like great, to me, a great leader is a great listener, right? It's also interesting when you're dealing with a lot of people and how you make everybody feel good because you can't always make everybody happy or feel good, you know. That's right. And, you know, the larger the group, the more difficult it is. We don't have so much time. Right. And so, but what we did before we wrote that book, Dr. White would go into a business and give a job satisfaction test.

And then he would share the concept and everybody would take a quiz. It was a different quiz for this one and take a quiz and learn each other's primary and secondary and one that's least important. And then he would challenge him to implement that. And I think he sent out an email maybe every six weeks just getting it back on the front burner. A year later, he went back in the company and gave another job satisfaction test. And in every case, it was statistically improved. Wow.

So it does make a huge difference. Yeah, when this is applied. Yeah. You can apply this to literally everything and anything. Where have you found the most, I'm sure it's relationships. Everybody wants a good relationship. But other than the relationship, where have you found the most traction in the different areas that your books have focused on? Well, it really depends on where the individual or the couple or the family, where they are. For example, if you have a special needs child, that's the book you want to read.

You know, that's that, that we want to learn how to communicate love to this child effectively and also how to keep our relationship, you know, going while we're dealing with this special needs child because it's just super, super stressful. So a lot depends on where a person is, you know, I mean, the military has been very, very satisfying to me to see so many military couples say, you know, Gary, that that book really saved our marriage because it was a way to help us keep connected emotionally while we were deployed. And, you know, some couples are deployed a lot. And they're away from months and months. And so if you can stay connected emotionally while you are deployed, then when you come back, it's much easier. The re-entry is much easier. You know, this quarantine period, a year where everybody's lives are very different, more people are at home with each other. And what happens if you're speaking each other's love language too much?

Stop touching you. So what happens when you're kind of, you know, because being together, a lot of people are saying, you know, this isn't the way it's supposed to be. We're supposed to have more independent lives and have our friends and be able to, you know, go to the workplace and come home or go out for the night with your friends and then come, you know. Yeah. No, there's no question about it. It's a whole different playing field. When the two of you are at home together, basically all the time. And if you have kids and they're home, not going to school, it's a whole new playing field.

In fact, I wrote a little book in the middle of the pandemic call Five Simple Ways to Strengthen Your Marriage when you're stuck at Home Together. Right. I can't believe I didn't know this, but I'm getting it immediately. It's just a little, it's just a short little book, you know, with some suggestions on that. But one of them is, and here's what I have found. If couples had a fairly healthy marriage before the pandemic, they're probably doing okay.

In fact, it may be even better now. But if they were fractured already before the pandemic, it's probably worse now than it was. So one of the first suggestions I make is, what if we call a truce on throwing verbal bombs at each other? Because fractured couples are throwing bombs at each other, verbal bombs at each other. And bombs explode.

in the heart and mind of the other person. And we're just making things worse by, you know, criticizing them, putting them down. And so why don't we just like, let's talk about a three week truce. That for three weeks, we're going to really try not to throw a verbal bomb. And after the first week, we're going to try to give each other one compliment every week for the next two weeks. There's two compliments.

Understand what we're doing? We're trying to change the climate. from shooting throwing bombs at each other to throwing you know words of affirmation to each other and this is just that especially for couples that are troubled this is just the starting place the second idea is to tear the walls down because the trouble marriage has walls they got a history and they built a wall between them with all the failures and and this involves apologizing and forgiving you you're not going to get it you don't give our you're not going to get ahead and until you tear the wall down.

And I don't care if in your mind you think your spouse is 95% of the problem and that only leaves 5% for you, you deal with your 5% because you can't tear the wall down on their side, but you can't apologize for your 5%. Maybe they forgive you, maybe they don't, but at least they're going to walk away and say, man, this is different. Never heard them do that before. All I've ever heard is how bad I am.

So, you know, you can open the door. to getting the wall torn down. Then the love language just kicks in. And it's much more meaningful now because, you know, we've stopped the battle and we're, we've torn down the walls. Now we're beginning to think, maybe we could make this better. Maybe we could make it different, you know.

So yeah. And I think also another thing when we're stuck at home together is let's reassess who does what. Because, you know, we had it all kind of worked out when the kids were going to school and one of us was going to work at this time and this time. And we had it all kind of worked out. But now the whole field has changed. And maybe we need to reassess. Maybe mom who got up and cooked breakfast before she went to work and dad got the kids ready and then took them to school. Maybe that was working. But now mom's really not a morning person.

And she would like to use this opportunity to sleep an hour later. So maybe dad ought to do the breakfast in the morning because he's a morning person and let him work with the kids those first little while you know so to be open to shifting we're a team and we want to use the best team members you know and we may have to change a little teamwork during during this during this time yeah anyway a lot of ideas well i love it you're the uh does anyone ever call you the love doctor i mean are you the love doctor i have been called that yeah i figured i'm not it it's fine i don't know that it's true but it's fine i mean obviously i care about love and i really believe that as you said earlier love is the powerful influence in the world. If you choose an attitude of love toward the people you encounter,

you're going to make a positive impact on the world. If we live as naturally in terms of being selfish, which we all are by nature, and we think of everything in terms of what am I going to get out of this, you know, then you're not going to enrich the world. You may accomplish a lot of good things and, you know, feel good about yourself and all that, but you're not going to enhance the world very much with a selfish attitude but a loving attitude will make a difference in the world it's true I mean I guess you would believe that right like love is contagious in a sense yeah thank you doctor I'm taking that with me wow this was awesome thank you so much thank you well thank you I enjoy chatting with you keep on helping people we will be we will try and I'm gonna read I'm

I'm gonna get all the books now I didn't I honestly didn't realize there were so many I know I'm picking up the, I'm going to get the children's one for sure. I need the, I need the children and the teen. I can't wait to read that. I mean, I have the children, but the teen one. The teen, yeah. Interesting. I've got a 17.

There's actually also one for the teenager. Oh, call a teen's guide to the five love languages. This is a small book. So if they read that and they're getting the idea on their side while you read the one for parents, then you can really talk about it. Oh, I am not only going to do that. I am going to post it to every time. teen mother out there.

We all know what we're talking about. I have the opposite. My son is very funny and self-deprecating. And any time I walk away from him, he's like, well, guess you don't really love me that much. I'm like, what is happening? I'm just, it's like. You did that last night.

He did. He did it last night. He came and he sat down and I had to go do something and I got up. And he's like, oh, is that what happens when I sit down? You leave? Yeah, no, then Kate was walking away without looking back. She goes, I love you. For quality time, kids.

Yeah, that's the way they read it. Something out there is more important than I. Exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Chapman. Thank you for everything you do. You have made the world a better place with your books. You really have.

I mean, seriously. That's not hyperbolic. I mean, this is, it's what you have written is real and it's simple, but it's real. and people from all over the world, as you know, are following this and all my friends know about it. And you know what's even more amazing about it is when you have something and you tap into something and then it has the kind of reception that it does. What it says to me and what I'm sure it says to you is that people want to love better and be loved. This is something that we desire and that we want.

And it's so interesting that we find it so hard to attain and achieve. And sometimes you need a simple guideline. And that's what this is. It's a simple guideline. That makes so much sense. It's sort of like it's like it's like the big flashing red light. Like how did I not know? Right. Yeah. It's very gratifying. It really is very gratifying to see the way the book has helped so many people in so many contexts. Well. So, you know, all of all of us are gifted in different ways and we just want to use our abilities to enrich the world. And if everybody did that, it'd be a great place to live. I know. Well, thank you again, bud.

Thank you. We'll see you soon. Thank you. Okay. God bless. Okay, you too. Bless you. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson.

Producer is Allison Bresnick. Editor is Josh Windish. Music by Mark Hudson, aka Uncle Mark. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. The Moment is a space for the conversations we've been having us father and daughter for years.

Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now.

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