Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Twinning & Singing with Tegan & Sara

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

Canadian pop duo Tegan and Sara know a thing or two about twinning and winning. The identical twins don't only share DNA, they also share a love for music and a past they were forced to overcome.Find out why they were once pitted against each other, how they decided to stop generational trauma, and what transpired after they both came out as LGBTQ+.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece,

we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special. So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb. With the co-host feature, you can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host.

Hi, I'm Janica Lopez, and in the new season of the Overcomfit Podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable, and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? Join me for conversations about healing and growth, all from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen. Listen to the new season of the Overcombered podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever. you get your podcast. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex.

No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special Bestie and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here. Listen to the Super Secret Festi Club on the IHeart

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's your favorite Jersey girl, Gia Judice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rural Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana, maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual Chaos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other Native stories. on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And would it's like to be siblings? We are a sibling rivalry. No, no. Sibling reverie.

Don't do that with your mouth. Sibling revelry. That's good. I'm a very unprofessional podcaster in the sense that, you know, you look at all these other podcasts and everything's like neon signs and it's their set deck and all their mics are like sort of, you know, just fly. And, you know, the production value is amazing. I'm in my fucking kitchen, you know, half the time my family's walking through. I put all my podcast shit in like this cupboard and it's all tangled up, you know, a mess. And I've been doing this for much longer than probably most people.

You know, we started four plus years ago, I think. Back when there were only 900,000 podcasts, now I think there's like 7 million. What am I fucking doing? What am I doing? I don't know. I like to talk. I don't know. I got, you know, I'm in a mood.

All right, I'm in a fucking mood, whatever. You know why? That should be in a great mood. I'm on the last day of my liver cleanse. You understand what I'm saying? I have been marching through this cleanse with, you know, this and this and that and bink, bang, bank, bank, and eating and not eating. And I actually feel pretty good, lost like six pounds.

You know what I mean? I don't know. I'm just annoyed. Anyway, I'm going to stop talking. It's not the greatest way to get into, I guess, but I'm going to come out of it right now. I'm going to come out of it. I'm going to talk about my cleanse with my next guests,

Teagan and Sarah, identical twins, Canadian indie pop sensations. I think they toured with Neil Young, which is pretty fucking rad, actually. And excited to talk to them. Bring them in. Let's have a convo. I failed tremendously, even though I went into preferences and said to start with my video and audio.

I don't know what went wrong. Failure. No, you're not. I'm a failure. I'm a failure. You know why? Because in my family, I'm a failure. Even though...

Oh, God. Yeah. Even though I'm not, meaning, like, I'm a successful actor. I've made a life for myself. I have an amazing family. There's no world where anyone would see me as a failure. Zero people. But the bullshit that I put on myself, the expectations,

this black sheep mentality that I have sometimes where parents are famous, sisters huge, brothers, and then I'm the fucking oldest kid that is trying to get a job. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I just gave you a little bit of my internal psychology as to why sometimes I see myself as a failure and why I have to sort of meditate and go into a bigger space to understand that we're all going to be a big ball of fire someday and none of this is going to matter. It doesn't matter.

Anxiety is a waste of time. So how's that to start off the podcast? I've always thought about like, because Tegan and I are friends with. we're friends with some twins who didn't end up choosing to have a career together and do everything together. And I think we've sort of like avoided this idea of competition with each other by just doing everything together and sharing everything. And even though I think Tegan is more successful than I am, because if you just look at, you know, which songs are more popular, you know, even some of her instincts, no, her instincts to decide to do things, even if I was fully involved in the, thing that we ended up deciding to do, even if we had sort of like equal partnership, I would never have made the choice to do the thing. So in some ways, it shows that she's been

much more successful in her instincts are more successful than mine. So I'm also the, I sort of have a black sheep mentality in my mind. That's so interesting. But Tegan, do you feel the same way? I mean, are you like, well, no, that's bullshit because here, here's why, you know, here's why Sarah is better than me. Yeah. Absolutely. I think my narrative, I mean, it's different but it's you know lives in the same family for sure you know like i always thought sarah's more credible she's the more artistic and more niche and is more intelligent and more studied and um academic feeling and i was a little more like you know i remember as a kid i was the messier one like in my hair we were in karate and like when i look back to the photos

like i just kind of look like a disaster and sarah was always sort of like very put together Now I, yeah, I do feel like a bit of a disaster. I mean, I think Sarah is very measured and controlled, and she is much better with privacy and having boundaries. And, you know, we've lived our entire adult life in the public eye. And I think that she's just better at managing that. And I'm a people pleaser. And so I get myself into trouble a lot.

It's so interesting, you know. It's just so interesting from an identical twins standpoint, which, of course, I don't know much about. but how you know you grow up together you i'm sure were raised the same way yet there are parts of your personality this goes back to sort of nature nurture you know what i mean that are completely different which is just so interesting and yeah do you do you have kids i have three yeah, 17, 14, 11. Wow.

That's cool. I have a two-year-old, but I am amazed. I didn't, I sort of like just thinking about the nature and nurture thing, like, I look back at videos of him even like a year ago and he's like, like, they come out with a personality. Like they just, like, even when he was just a sack of potatoes blobbing on the couch or whatever, like, I just look at him now and I'm like, oh, I already see the personality. and he's got such a big personality already at two and he talks a lot and he's he just

I mean I think my wife and I are really smart and funny but like he's so funny and smart already and I just am like that's got to be like we didn't get a dud but I don't think it's because we've put a lot of energy into making him not a dud like it just feels like he came like I feel like out of the box he's pretty like baseline extra and and I just think

you know in some ways like the thing Tegan's talking about, like, there was no, forget nature, nurture for a second. Like, we came out of my mother and Tegan looked messier. Like, she just, her bangs were a little messier. And she just, she literally came out of the womb like, oh shit. Like, we're, I'm here. You know, whereas I sort of came out and I was like, I'm here, mother. You know?

And it's like, I just feel like, I feel like we came out like that. No, I know. I mean, it's so true. I guess when you're thinking about you guys coming out at the same time, you would, I assume that there would be more similarity there as far as that goes, but maybe not. I mean, I couldn't agree more. My kids raised all the same way, you know, I mean, we're still raising them. Of course, you know, there's nuance to it.

I mean, you know, everyone's different, so you're going to sort of, you know, alter the way that you do things for each child based on who they are. But, you know, my first one came out three weeks early. he looked like a little baby bird we didn't know what the fuck we were doing you know what I mean and we were trying to sleep train him and we we can't sleep in a bed

it was just such panic all the time and you know he's of course my most sensitive that's why the firstborns are mostly the most sensitive because we coddle the shit out of them because we have no idea what we're doing and then Bodie Wilder's my first kid and Bodie's my second kid

he literally came out with a tan and like a joint and Rayban on you know what i mean like his first picture he's smiling and he's he looks like he just came back from hawaii he's like tan and uh super chill and stubborn as fuck and he still is that way and then i've got rio my daughter who's just you know pure performer fabulous just she's just all sugar she's just the most beautiful loving human being of all time yeah to all three different but i will say is humor their humor is super connecting you know they all have the same idea of what's funny how to make you laugh understanding jokes and they've had to deal with me as a father too so

i think humor i don't have kids but i feel like if i didn't have a funny kid it would be a oh yeah you just throw it away yeah throw it away yeah i have a question all we're just going back that the hell this all started but you said that you felt like the black sheep and you you know you mentioned i think you said you're the oldest of your siblings yeah do you feel like Like you've always been, even though you admit that you're not a failure and from the outside, of course, no one else would be that way. But was that a thing that you've always had like since you were a kid or was it something that came in our hood as you guys pursued the career?

No, I think this is deeply psychological, you know, everyone deals with trauma or pain in different ways. You know, my dad bailed when I was like five or six. It was good for until I was like 11 or 12. Then it just went off the rails. and, you know, mom was single for a minute. Then she met Kurt and Kurt became my stepdad, who was amazing, he raised me. But it's just, it was just a tumultuous sort of childhood for me, you know. Yeah.

You know, and I think it hurt my self-esteem when it came to work for some reason. From a social standpoint, I'm good. I'm confident and I'm happy and, you know, I love being social. so I think it stems from that but it's funny you asked this because I was on a walk yesterday and I was just going back and reflecting upon my life which I do often and I started to get really emotional because I have this strange need for people to like me yeah and if they don't like me it almost is a dagger in a strange way I don't want to offend anyone. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Of course, because I don't want

them to feel bad, but also because I don't want them to think less of me or bad of me in any way whatsoever. I'm not a confrontational person because confrontation to me as a kid was just devastating and ruined me, you know, and it's been a bit detrimental to my life, you know, to where I can't step up, you know, and basically say what I feel and say what I want. You know, I'm always sort of couching it in something. Yeah. And I'm 48, you know, and it's a forever journey, but it's beautiful. And self-reflection is amazing, and I've been doing it for a long, long time.

You know, where Kate went the other way, she was like, no, this is my pain. Fuck this. I'm going to have the greatest work ethic of all time. I'm going to be famous. I'm going to be incredible at what I do. Nothing is going to get in my way. so we just went at it differently you know

so yeah and then you try not to pass any of that shit onto your kids yeah I think it's I mean it's so interesting too because I mean I suppose that it's the same with you and Kate but like you know because Sarah and I are twins

and because we are with each other all the time you know there have been years in our career we've been touring you know and on the road traveling for hundreds of days at a time so we almost use each other as mirrors and that can be really helpful like if one of us is being an asshole or stepping out of line or just kind of being a jerk it's like the other one's there to be like uh-uh like you know but it's also the thing where it's like when i see a strength of sarah's it sort of it magnifies that that's a weakness in me and we used to say that we felt like as twins it was like they took all the things you can be good and bad at and then divide it up so like the thing sarah's really good at i just can't get good at and the things that sarah's really bad at and the things that sarah's really bad bad at, like, tend to be things that I've been really good at. And one of the things I think

I'm really good at is putting people at ease and being very liked. And it has become a compulsion where I really relate to what you're saying. Like, I absolutely, I will do anything to avoid being disliked. I will, like, there's just an example of people from our past that we haven't had a relationship with in decades, you know, but like when they message, like to come to a show or they message to, like, connect, it's like, I will take the time and I'll respond and I'll make time. And Sarah's just like being like, who fucking cares? Like, get over it. Like, we don't know that person. We met them once. Like, why do you feel so bad? You met that person of one kind. You don't owe them

anything. And I just, it's weird. I feel the same thing. Like, when you said, like, it's like a dagger if someone doesn't like you. It's also like a dagger for me if I think I've hurt someone's feeling. Oh, it's horrible. Confrontation. It's like my wife, my wife and I, we don't fight. We started going to couple scouts like the therapist was like watching us back and forth and was like well that's lovely that you guys get along so well but i'm assuming i mean you're avoiding talking about things that are hard you're here for a reason you're in debbie for a reason right like what are you avoiding but i think that comes from i think that's a product of being again like in a band with my sister for 25 years like i can't have conflict constantly so it means i've had to learn how to

compromise and sometimes it's like a lot you know and but i don't want to fight with there i don't want to i don't want the two of us to be at each other's growth so you can you just learn to avoid things and you learn to let it go but if you're not really letting it go it's like building i know yeah and that resentment you don't want that resentment to build either you know no that's that's why the communication is great that's why it's and vulnerability has been an issue for me too with just being able to talk about my feelings and the things that I really am, especially with women, interestingly enough, you know, with men and with my kids, I'm right there. But with my wife and with my mom and with my sister, you know, it was really difficult

for me to just express how I feel about them in a positive way, meaning like, hey, I just want to tell you, I'm fucking, I'm so in love with you and you're incredible and here's why. I get scared. I'm always like, oh my God, it's like, you know, cringe, as they say these days. And it's just, it's a protection. I'm just almost protecting myself from, you know, getting annihilated, even though that it's completely irrational, you know. It's funny how the mind and emotion can just totally separate. I consider myself a pretty evolved person sort of intellectually, but that I'm still a

fucking child when it comes to sort of my heart and my emotions, you know. Yeah. September always feels like the start of something new, whether it's back to school, new projects, or just a fresh season. It's the perfect time to start dreaming about your next adventure. I love that feeling of possibility, thinking about where to go next, what kind of place we'll stay in, and how to make it feel like home. I'm already imagining the kind of Airbnb that would make the trip unforgettable, somewhere with charm character and a little local flavor. If you're planning to be away this September, why not consider hosting your home on Airbnb while you're gone? Your home

could be the highlight of someone else's trip, a cozy place to land, a space that helps them feel like a local. And with Airbnb's co-host feature, you can hire a local co-host to help with everything from managing bookings to making sure your home is guest ready. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca.com I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians.

I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country. Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized? I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't. lose faith. And that's what I believe in. To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that

ongoing intergenerational conversation public. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paula Ramos as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I started trying to get pregnant about four years ago now. We're getting a little bit older, and it just kind of felt like the window could be closing. Bloomberg and IHeart Podcasts present. IVF disrupted, the Kind Body Story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care.

Introducing Kind Body, a new generation of women's health and fertility care. backed by millions in venture capital and private equity, it grew like a tech startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients. You think you're finally like with the right people in the right hands, and then to find out again that you're just not. Don't be fooled. By what? All the bright and shiny. Listen to IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story, starting September 19 on the IHeart Radio,

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh.

Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here. Today we have a very special guest with us. Our new Super Secret Bestie is, The diva of the people. The diva of the people. I'm just like text your ex.

My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us. That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heart breaks, men, and of course, our favorite secrets.

Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the Michael Thura podcast network available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hola, it's Honey German, and my podcast, Grasias Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment, with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in, like, over 25 years.

Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters. sharing their real stories of failure and success. I feel like this is my destiny. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending

with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing Vibras you've come to expect. And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know what I'm me?

Yeah. But the whole pretending and cold, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasas Has Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network On the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I have a lot more empathy for men now in later years. Like I think we grew up with a fairly strong, you know, sort of like feminist perspective on things. and we, and because I think also because we were gay, I mean, we always were surrounded by men,

but I think that there was a sort of like, like, it just, it's always been like a second language or something to speak to men and just like, be like, okay, I guess I'll change my expectations, not necessarily lower, but just I have to expect something different from men and the relationships I have with men than I, that I have with women. And I feel like I have a lot of really wonderful,

substantial connections with men that I love, but it's always felt different. And now I'm raising a son and I am just completely obsessed with like, how do I change that? You know, like, how do I? And not necessarily with him because right now it's like we don't, he doesn't know any, you know, we don't know anything at that. He's like, he doesn't understand gender and he doesn't understand all of these things. And so it's so beautiful because we're just like having a relationship.

But it's made me re contextualize so many of my relationships with men in my life. and see their sensitivities and see their sort of like differences in a really empathetic way because already even with my son, I can see the way people treat him and change the way they treat him when they know he's a boy. Like, I don't know if you experience this between your sons and your daughter, but like, um, uh, people constantly talk about my son's body. They'll say, look at that little boss. Look at his legs or look at his cheeks or look at his hair.

And there are people like come up to him on the street and they constantly, constantly are like, you know, like commenting on his physical, his physical being. And, um, and I'm like, I don't think people would do that if they were a girl. I mean, when I'm around my friends with girls, but then I think about, you know, me and Tegan, everybody thought we were boys until we were like, you know, well, very different ages, depending on what our hair looked like, but we spent a good chunk of our childhood being misgendered. And I think about like the way that we were treated often as if we were boys.

Like whether we even understood it or not, we really really. passed through the world when we were little, almost being treated like boys. And I think that has like a huge, has had a huge impact on how we feel in our bodies and how we feel, um, you know, in our, like our presence. Like we weren't like, um, not to say that we would have been like weak or more vulnerable or emotional as girls, but like, you know, my dad was giving us a hammer and nails at like five years old and was like, go whack this in the backyard. You know, we weren't playing with princesses or whatever. And I think that there's, just like something about like the way I've experienced are you blank dad didn't know that we were

girl I don't know it seemed like it sometimes when he was around you know yeah no no I couldn't agree more I mean you know getting into sort of the male species and I think that we all have vulnerabilities and sensitivities that we were just more afraid to sort of let come to the surface, you know, and I think now it's, it's, it's, it's almost allowed. It's easier. It's, it's not weak anymore. In fact, it's strength to me. I mean, being a vulnerable man, being someone who can talk about his feelings and, you know, be extremely candid about my life and the way that I feel and my emotions. I mean, I feel power in that, honestly, you know, I do. Because you're yourself, number one,

And then you're also allowing other people around you, other men around you, to, you know, to feel those same things as well. You know, the minute you put your shit out there, it just opens the gates for other people to put their shit out there as well, you know. It's interesting that you're saying that because I think back to like the early part of our career when we were mostly surrounded by men on the road. You know, it was just that was who mostly was in our band and crew. It was just easier. we used to say men were kind of like dandy lions in our industry. You could like the head off and one and like 40 would grow, you know, whereas like finding a woman was like impossible.

And we just have spent like an absurd amount of time in the company of only men. And, you know, at really pivotal and important times in terms of brain development and emotional development in our early 20s and, you know, compounded with the fact that we were dealing with like becoming known people and public figures and success and failure. and criticism and, like, you know, the internet and social media, like, all of this is happening. And we were often processing a lot of our insecurity in the company of men. And it was hard.

Like, I think about something more dramatic or isolating or lonely moments. And it's, you know, sitting in a room with this family that you create to go out on the road with for years at a time and crying and being like, you know, Spinn magazine called us a folk wicket nightmare. And they're just like, they'd laugh. Like, they were like, who cares? right you know and and and we're just like 20 something that are like wikins don't deserve you know this and like you know we're not folk and like it's misogyny and homophobic like you know having just so wildly emotional and you know

being in the presence of all these men who were like not processing that feeling part of it the emotion part of it they were just like who gives a shit yeah and how awful that was and it's so funny now because we you know have crested 40 and so lot of the men in our lives are getting older and obviously our dad our stepdad who's you know helped raise us they're all in their 60s now and they fucking cry and talk about their feelings and it's always like about their emotions and feelings and now their childhoods and I'm like god this is like exhausting like get it together Jesus I'm done enough of the tears boys but it's amazing I mean it's amazing but I just think like

how funny it is, like, we go through that at different times in our lives, you know, and, like, our family now is full of men who want to talk about their feelings, and all this women who've been, like, over-processing for two decades, they're just like, oh, no. No, I know. And then, you know, it's also watching my boys, my daughter is very expressive, you know. I mean, she's very, her emotions are right there, you know, right at the tip. But watching my sons, and it's been really cool because they're very communicative with their friends.

Sometimes with their parents, it's like, how was school? Fine, or whatever. You know what I mean? It's just normal teenage bullshit. But watching them deal with their friends is very communicative and they're not sort of holding back. And, you know, he's had a girlfriend now for over a year and a half. And he's in 11th grade. So he's found love.

and, you know, watching him sort of navigate, you know, his whole world with his girlfriend and her friend. It's interesting and hearkening back to sort of my childhood and reflecting upon it. It was, it was not like that. It was different. There's much more synergy now. There's much more communication now. Feelings it's okay to talk about. So it's cool. That's amazing. I dig it. September always feels like the start of something new, whether it's back to school, new projects, or just a fresh season. It's the perfect time to start dreaming about your next adventure. I love that feeling of possibility, thinking about where to go next, what kind of place

will stay in, and how to make it feel like home. I'm already imagining the kind of Airbnb that would make the trip unforgettable, somewhere with charm, character, and a little local flavor. If you're planning to be away this September, why not consider hosting your home on Airbnb while you're gone? Your home could be the highlight of someone else's trip, a cozy place to land, a space that helps them feel like a local. And with Airbnb's co-host feature, you can hire a local co-host to help with everything from managing bookings to making sure your home is guest ready. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca. slash host. I'm Jorge Ramos. In Adam Paola Ramos.

Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians. I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country. Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized? I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't lose faith. And that's what I believe in. to bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective.

There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I started trying to get pregnant about four years ago now. We're getting a little bit older, and it just kind of felt like the window could be closing.

Bloomberg and IHeart podcast present. IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. Introducing Kind Body, a new generation of women's health and fertility care. backed by millions in venture capital and private equity, it grew like a tech startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients. You think you're finally like with the right people in the right hands,

and then to find out again that you're just not. Don't be fooled. By what? All the bright and shiny. Listen to IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story, starting September 19 on the IHeart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola, it's Honey German, and my podcast,

Grasas Come Again, is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment, with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't have to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in, like, over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there.

Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stuff. stories of failure and success. You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vivas you've come to expect.

And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know what I'm me? Yeah.

But the whole pretending and code, You know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasasas Come Again as part of my Cultura podcast network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice.

Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, no. We're not doing that this season. Oh. Well, this season, we're leveling up. Each episode will feature a special Bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. Get in here! Today we have a very special guest with us.

Our new super secret bestie is The Deva of the People. The Deva of the People. I'm just like text your ex. My theory is that if you need to figure out that the stove is hot, go and touch it. Go and figure it out for yourself. Okay. That's us.

That's us. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. In each episode, we'll talk about love, friendship, heart breaks, men, and of course, our favorites. Secrets. Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club as a part of the My Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

wherever you get your podcast. When did you guys know that you were both gay? I mean, how did that happen? And did one know before the other? Yes. I think circumstantially because I happen to meet someone as a young person, you know, my best friend who, you know, eventually became my first girlfriend. It sort of put me into a knowing place a lot sooner than Tegan.

So I was, you know, I was like 14 when I started having this relationship with my best friend in secret, you know, from most everyone. Though after years of sort of being together and not being together, it was pretty obvious to, I think, most people in our life that there was something extra going on. But I knew I sort of had a sense of myself. very young. Like, I recognized that the way girls made me feel especially contrasting that with the way boys made me feel. Like, I was

really into boys. Like, actually, my mom has all these really funny journal entries in our baby books that are like, you're obsessed with boys. You love boys. Like, but she misunderstood. Like, our obsession with boys was like, we were like, we wanted to be boys. You know,

we were like, boys are the best. I want to hang out with Colin and Cameron. and, like, I was like, I want to hang out with boys. And my mom was like, you know, you little, you're going to get pregnant, you know, like, whatever. And I was just like, you don't get it. So, um, but like, she totally misunderstood, you know, like that my obsession with boys was about finding kids that I wanted to feel like or look like or play with or whatever.

And girls would just sort of undo me, you know, like I just, my mom's friends would come over. You know, she was in school. like when we were kids like she went back to college and all her like cool hipster college girlfriends would come over and tegan and i would like hide in the bedroom like we were just and i didn't know quite how to like put it into context except to say that i felt completely comfortable with my dad and stepdad and they're like construction hockey player macho friends but if one woman wearing like a dock boots and like lipstick came over to the house i was like i wish i was dead and i don't and i couldn't figure that out you know i just had no idea

So, yeah, once I found a girlfriend, I was like, oh, oh, I understand what's happening. Like, this is like, this is what this whole thing was. So, yeah, and Tegan, I looked at, as soon as I figured out this thing about myself, I was like, well, obviously Tegan is gay as well. It just was so obvious to me, there was no confusion for me. So you almost knew before Tegan, you're like, no, not just because you're my twin sister, but just knowing who I am now and seeing who you are, I can see that this is. I just thought we were the same.

Like, I just was like, it didn't even occur to me. I wasn't like, I wonder if Tegan also is gay. Like, I was like, she's gay. Right. Like, I was like, she's gay. There's no question. Yeah. And I think for me, seeing Sarah, like, I was clearly aware that what was going on behind

the scenes in Sarah's private life, but we didn't talk about it, which I do understand it's kind of odd. Like, I think people make an assumption because we were the same age and we were going through the same things that we confided in one another, but we didn't. We were, you know. That's really interesting, actually. We were kind of like possible to, too. other when we were teenagers like there was you know I think because we were going through so many

the same thing there was like a desperate need for privacy and um we antagonize one another around sexuality actually like you know I think like there were breaches on my part it was a vulnerability yeah it was a vulnerability it was like don't yeah yeah I think I think we struggled we struggled to understand it and be comfortable with it and so we took it out on one another and so it didn't feel like necessarily a safe place to go talk about it. But I know for myself, I really relate to everything Sarah said about women growing up. I knew that there was something that was different about me. Unlike Sarah, though, I didn't have any shame about it.

I never felt like I wasn't laying in bed thinking about girls and then being like, you know, giving myself lashes or something like that. Like, there was no, there was no homophobia in the world, at least in my world, really. but once I did start to act on my feelings with girls and establish crushes and talk about it out loud and have relationships, I definitely felt really, really nervous to tell Sarah. I was so worried she would think I was copying her.

Like, I mean, we were teenagers. It was just like this weird thing where it was like, this is Sarah's thing. And again, like we were sort of hostile when it came to the sort of stuff with each other, you know, where it was like... Sarah was like, that's bullshit. I was gay first.

Yeah. Or she'd be like, Like, you know, my best friend would come over and it was clear we were hooking up and there would be, would just antagonize up. Like, she'd be like, clearly, Jamie's your girlfriend. And it was like, you know, we would be like, you know, we'd all be like fighting and screaming and slamming doors. And so I think it was not until we were older that we, and really it was when we started our career and we started to do press and people were asking us about our sexuality that we started to listen to each other talk about what it was like. which again is a full theme

in therapy for both of us it's just how much of our life went unspoken and we do this thing where we talk about things that matter to us in the press

or on stage and that's how we learn about each other it's like insane but yeah we never really talk about it that's really interesting but was there a moment

where it was like all right here's who I am here's who who's who I am love you love you great we could do it I guess we can do it right now

we could do it like Tegan and I I love you. I know you're gay. You're doing great. No, I came out. I came out when I was 18 and Tiga didn't come out for another year or two. And there was no, you know, there was no coming out card and gift or anything. It was just kind of like, again, this is such a different time. Right. Like we're talking about 1998. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was so tumultuous. I was trying to establish my identity and privacy. And I was like fighting with my mom. who, you know, initially had a really difficult reaction to me being gay. Oh, she did. Sorry, where did you guys grow up in Canada?

What part? Calgary. We grew up in California. Okay, cool. And my mom had been like, she was like, it's a great town. We had like a very liberal, very cool, open-minded family, very, my mom's friends were gay. Like, half the time I felt like my mom was grooming us to be gay. She'd be bringing home like indie movies with gay people in them.

And I'd be like, does she know? Like, what's happening? So I was very surprised by her reaction. But then I think, you know, it's like contextually, I understand now, like, there was a real sort of like, she was caught off guard. There was a mourning of like what she imagined for me. You know, so that was difficult. And I wasn't looking for comfort from Tegan.

I found comfort in my girlfriend. You know, like I was like in my own world where I was like, I'm not, I was sort of trying to break away from the family unit. And then by the time Tegan came out. it was so different, like the reaction from our friends and family, it was like everybody got to do over, you know, so whoever had sort of stumbled or got it wrong with me was able to like do a much better job with Tegan. Oh, yeah. No, I, that's so true. You were like, you were a bit of you're the guinea pig, you know? A hundred percent. I mean, I can relate to that with my kids

because I had a conversation with Wilder, my oldest. And we were going through something. And I said, look, man, you know, you're figuring it out as a young man, as a young teenager with your hormones raging. I'm fucking 47 at the time, now I'm 48. And you're my first. So I am equally figuring it out. I'm going to make mistakes and you're going to make mistakes. And I said, and you are, and the other kids are lucky, Bodhi and Rio are lucky because

I'm going to have better knowledge of knowing what to do because of you, you know. So I can relate to that. And like, you are the guinea pig. And now it's like, okay, well, we figured Sarah out. Now we know. Now Tegan's going to be easy. My mom gave me a couch. I moved in with my girlfriend for like three seconds.

And my mom bought off the couch. I was like, ooh, dope. It's beautiful to be able to recognize, though, that you're wrong and come to your kids and say that. And I think that's a huge generational change because certainly in our adolescence, multiple times in our, you know, in our teenage years where things were really tumultuous, at really, really pivotal, like, seminal moments, our parents were able to come to us and say, wow, we really handled that wrong. Or, you know, there specifically, I remember when Tegan and I were writing our memoir

about our high school years, which is when we launched our career and when we came out, so it was sort of covering a lot of those kind of topics we're kind of talking about right now. One of the stories that sort of was unearthed was this moment, where our stepdad who we adored and who was extremely maternal with us and loved us and adored us and, you know, he was he was wonderful, but he was also like, you know, a guy in his like 30s playing hockey working on a construction site, didn't always have like the most liberal politics or certainly didn't have the most liberal language at that time. And I remember him using a disparaging word, you know, to talk about Kirk Cobain, who we were obsessed with

Nirvana and obsessed with Kirk Cobain. And Teigen tells this really beautiful story in the memoir about the confrontation and fight, ultimately, that they had about the way he was talking about Kirk Cobain. And he came back and was able to sit down and apologize and process that moment. And those are the kinds of, I think, those are the kinds of stories and moments that are so new generationally. Like, I just don't think, I can't even imagine my grandparents sitting down with my mom from like 1960, whatever, and being like, we are sorry for, you know, whatever we did.

you know, we're wrong and we didn't have the institutional knowledge of like, this would fuck you up. Like, they didn't have any of that. Whereas, like, our parents did. And it's so heartening to know, to hear you talk about it. And I'm so, I feel so fortunate to be able to, like, you know, I'll fuck up my kid. But at least I'll be able to tell him how, why I fucked him up, why I'm fucked him up. Like, we'll be able to share those things.

I say this all the time. And on the podcast, too, I say it's not about if you fuck up your kids. It's just to what degree? I mean, that's it. You know, we're all screwing them up one way or another. That's just the way it goes, you know. It's validating in a way. I, you know, obviously, our parents were really young when they had us.

So when we graduated high school, they had just turned 40. And, you know, I'm in a couple of days, Sarah and I turned 44. Wow. That's young. They had you guys young. They were children. Wow. The fact that we're alive, the fact that we have been so successful is actually

insane, really, to comprehend, but they were so young, but they were barely, they had just turned 40 when we graduated high school. And when I think about that now, like when I think about having 18-year-olds who I have to settle into the world, I cannot. The other day we were at a photo shoot and the assistant on set was 27 and we started to view that and I was like, oh my God, I could have had you. Like, I would have been young. But I'm like, you know, I think your 40s are really an interesting time because it's when you start to remember your parents and you start to

remember like as you were a child and all those feelings emotions and I know how cliche this is but it's like all those feelings emotions you had for them where you were like they're living a tick song mom was a in high school you know she's like yes she was 40 she was going through her second divorce

you know like she was going to college and working and raising two freaks who were doing acid and sneaking out of school constantly like the fact that she didn't murder us is an achievement that they should give out degrees at university for. Like, it's just, it's unreal. And I just think the context that we have now, not just generationally, but just as the age that we're all at, you can start to look back and be like, being a human being is hard. Every age is different. And developmentally, you're constantly under a

new challenge because you're seeing a world with new perspective. Oh, my God. It's so true. It's so true. And the appreciation of your parents, I can't even explain. how much I can relate to that once you get older and then you don't have kids but once you do have kids you understand all of a sudden oh my god they love me so fucking much and now I understand how they love me and why they love me so much I mean it really opens up your eyes to sort of the love and appreciation that your parents have had had had for you and just they just want you to be okay you know yeah yeah as far as LGBT and all that stuff, especially you guys growing up in Canada.

This could be a stupid, weird question. But as opposed to America, like, is there more leniency? Is there more accepting? You know, are the Canadian cultures as broad, the broad idea of it? You know, because obviously everyone looks at the Canadians. Oh, they're so nice. And, you know, I've met a lot of asshole Canadians, by the way. Yeah, I think that all the bad parts of America are in Canada, too.

I mean, you know, we've got pretty much all the same problems and issues and bad qualities just on a smaller scale. I will say that because we don't have entire networks devoted to 24-hour breaking news, it feels slightly less fire alarmy and culturally here. And we're clearly not as obsessed with politics. But I would say growing up here, we had as little representation as American kids or any kids really around the world. You know, we held on from the tiny pieces of representation that would poke their head out. but certainly as adult and like living in the city we live in and having a career we have, we've certainly experienced homophobia, but I think there's a more mind your own business attitude to Canadians.

Religion is not involved in politics. You do not have, you know, every politician signing off with God bless Canada. It's not like that. So I don't feel that there's as much externalized homophobia and hate, but that's coming from a really privileged this, you know, can you know at times very fam like day person so i don't experience the kind of hate that some of my friends who are trans or are more masculine you know like i but i would say like generally speaking i mean you know we had equal rights in canada nearly a decade before america so like you know

things have definitely changed here quicker but all the trans rollbacks and pushbacks on trans people and hate and pairing down of like that all happens here just it's i think it happens on a smaller But we focus a lot of our time and energy, Sarah and I, into philanthropy. We have a foundation. We spend a lot of time funding left-of-center organizations that are overlooked by the big funders. And you hear the horror stories. I mean, it's all still bad. But we are doing our part to hopefully make it better.

Great. September always feels like the start of something new, whether it's back to school, new projects, or just a fresh, season. It's the perfect time to start dreaming about your next adventure. I love that feeling of possibility, thinking about where to go next, what kind of place will stay in, and how to make it feel like home. I'm already imagining the kind of Airbnb that would make the trip unforgettable, somewhere with charm, character, and a little local flavor. If you're planning to be away this September, why not consider hosting your home on Airbnb while you're gone? Your home could be the highlight of someone else's trip, a cozy place to land, a space that helps them feel like

a local. And with Airbnb's co-host feature, you can hire a local co-host to help with everything from managing bookings to making sure your home is guest ready. Find a co-host at Airbnb.combe.combe. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians. I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country. Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized?

I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't lose faith. And that's what I believe in. To bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other. sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public.

Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I started trying to get pregnant about four years ago now. We were getting a little bit older and it just kind of felt like the window could be closing. Bloomberg and IHeard Podcasts present. IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. Introducing Kind Body, a new generation of women's health and fertility care. Backed by millions in venture capital and private equity, it grew like a tech startup.

While Kind Body did help women start families, it also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patients. You think you're finally like with the right people in the right hands. And then to find out again that you're just not. Don't be fooled. By what? All the bright and shiny. Listen to IVF disrupted, the kind body story starting September 19 on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jenna Lopez.

And in the new season of the Overcover podcast, I'm taking you on an exciting journey of self-reflection. Am I ready to enter this? new part of my life. Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? I wanted to be successful on my own, not just because of who my mom is. Like, I felt like I needed to be better or work twice as hard as she did. Join me for conversations about healing and growth. Life is freaking hard. And growth doesn't happen in comfort. It happened in motion, even when you're hurting. All from one of my favorite spaces, the kitchen. Honestly, say these are going to come out so freaking

amazing. Be a part of my new chapter and listen to the new season of the Overcumper podcast as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hola, it's HoneyGerman, and my podcast

Grazacus come again is back. This season, we're going even deeper into the world of music and entertainment with raw and honest conversations with some of your favorite Latin artists and celebrities. You didn't to audition? No, I didn't audition. I haven't audition in like over 25 years. Oh, wow. That's a real G-talk right there. Oh, yeah. We've got some of the biggest actors, musicians, content creators, and culture shifters sharing their real stories of failure and success.

You were destined to be a start. We talk all about what's viral and trending with a little bit of chisement, a lot of laughs, and those amazing vivras you've come to expect. And of course, we'll explore deeper topics dealing with identity, struggles, and all the issues affecting our Latin community. You feel like you get a little whitewash because you have to do the code switching? I won't say whitewash because at the end of the day, you know, I'm me. But the whole pretending and code, you know, it takes a toll on you. Listen to the new season of Grasas Has Come Again as part of My Cultura Podcast Network

on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Okay. Documentary. Let's talk about the documentary. I want to hear about it. And then the cat, if you can graze over the catfishing thing, it's so interesting to me.

Yeah, I mean. We just spent so much time philosophizing that I forgot. I know we did. It's great. I forgot to get to everything else. Honestly, I'm excited for people to see it. The movie's called Fanatical, the catfishing of Tegan and Zara,

and it comes out on the 18th of October on Hulu. So I don't want to give too much away. But yeah, it was a crazy situation, you know, In 2011, some fans reached out to our management and said, one of us has been talking to Tegan online. We've been exchanging emails for years, but it's recently gotten kind of weird. She's passed on unreleased songs. Passport scans gave me access to, you know, an IDIS, which for the kids listening is the old school version of the cloud. And it seems wrong.

Can you verify if it's Tegan that's actually talking to us? And, of course, it was not me. And it sort of started this unreal 15-year journey that we've been on to try to stop this person who repeatedly has gotten access to, you know, people in our world at some point had access to an old email of mine and was using it to fish, people I know, people I work with. And what is sort of unraveled over the last 15 years is just dozens and dozens of people all over the world who got into a friendship, in some cases, sexual or sexual. romantic relationship with a person who's been pretending to be me and is a is not me um and a couple years ago and we never talked about it publicly um we did put warnings up you know on our website and we would you know we would warn people on social media and remind them like we don't have personal accounts like only our official accounts you know we do what every band and every

public person does and increasingly we just have had less and last to do with social media but but you know we would we would definitely warn people but we never ever came forward told this story and a couple years ago I just got into my head that I wanted to write the story down and I wrote a story called Fake Tegan about what happened and how it affected Sarah and I and my life and my friends and how I communicate and our relationship to our fans and how violating it was and sort of posed the question at the end of the story like did we do everything we could have done I feel guilty this is my appeasement people pleasing I was like did we do enough to help prevent this from happening what are the other victims feeling

have they been able to move on. So this spread, this is, it's not even about you, essentially. I mean, of course it is, but this thing went viral, I guess. Like it's a viral catfish. It's like people from all over the world came forward and we're like, I was talking to Kagan for four of my years. We sent like 900 emails. I mean, people, the victim, like, you know, there was a spectrum of people, you know,

some would talk to fake vegan three times and be like, this is her. Other people had long friendships. And then, you know, in a handful of cases, that we found people who had actual romantic, like sexual relationship. Was this one person? We, we, I mean, I don't want to ruin the movie. No, no, don't, don't, don't ruin it.

Don't ruin it. I am a huge documentary, docu-series fan. Like, I'm nutty. When does it come out, by the way? It comes out on October 18th. I'm very excited. This sounds unreal. How did you decide to, because you were so private about it,

how did you decide to all of a sudden say, you know what, this is a story I want to tell? you know i've been thinking about it a lot and i i had told the story i hadn't told the story start to finish to someone in a long time and i told a friend this like what i remember and took like two hours and he was just like friend i'm freaking out like this is crazy you should write this down so i wrote the story and then i was like i want to make a podcast i think i want to like investigate this again i want to start in the beginning i've never talked to any of the other victim. So I was like, I want to call the victims. And I pitched it to this woman, Jenny

Aliskew is a writer and works out serious radio and is just like a legend in the music industry. And I was like, I'm going to pitch this to Jenny Aliskew. And she had just worked on Britney versus Fear documentary directed by Aaron Lee Carr. And Jenny called me like, I don't know, two hours after I sent her the story. And she said, this is fucking nuts. I've never heard a story like before. I want to take this to Aaron Lee Carr. So Aaron and Jenny and I got on a call, a week or so later or something and Aaron was like this is not a fucking podcast you guys yeah yeah and two years later here we are holy shit and Sarah how did you feel about all of it I mean I know it wasn't you but essentially it was was it I mean or was it there's the twist in the

doc I think that I think the film does a pretty good job of of really centering Tegan and her experience obviously but you know this This had a huge impact on my life and really, like, you know, our friends and family, our business relationships and, you know, has definitely affected the trajectory of our band. I mean, we have made really specific choices because of this situation. And, you know, in some cases, I think it was actually positive. Like, I think we needed to be more mindful of boundaries and our fan base. I think we were a bit naive, you know, to think that our fan base was so special. that they would never do the things that other fan bases sometimes do to artists.

And, you know, I think this was healthy. Like, I think at some point, maybe we needed to have a bit more of a disconnected relationship from our fan base. Like, we were really in with our fans. Like, we were really, like, we saw ourselves as being them. And I don't think that that, you know, can be sustained, even if you don't have someone pretending to be you for 15 years. Like, I think at some point it's healthy to say, I make things.

things for people. And I love the people who love our things, but we're not friends. You know, like we are, we have a, we have a relationship, but it's not the one we think we're having. So, um, but I'm also really different than Tegan. Like we started a nice way to bookend this conversation. I'm not as worried about pleasing people. And I feel like it's okay to have boundaries and set sort of expectations. And if, if people sort of push that, it's okay to say, no, thank you, or I don't want that, or that doesn't make me feel good, or I don't want to, you know, sign autographs in a dark alley at 2 a.m. anymore. I want to say, nice to see you by and walk into the bus, you know, or whatever. Like, I was more comfortable

with that. And I also like living a really private life. I really admire people who can manage fame and celebrity on a level. I've seen it. And I've had brief moments of experience. some version of it, it's not for me. Like, I like my life. I don't want to be famous. And I like that we are a well-known band and respected. But when I go home, I love that I just completely disappear. And that, you know, that all sort of was happening, like those conversations were

happening around the time that this started. So, yeah, it had a huge impact because it was like, case in point. We have somebody pretending to be Tegan, like, let's disappear. It was like, kind of like, I used it to explain my own decision to kind of move away from that sort of trajectory in our career. Yeah. Wow. I mean, it's so weird, too, thinking of, it's almost like this, whoever this person or people are, you know, which may or may not be revealed in the documentary, which everyone does need to go see because it sounds amazing. There, it has to be some sort of a mental illness. I mean, for someone to be able to dedicate this much time to this, picturing the other side, them sitting. behind their keyboard being like, I mean, there's got to be

something fucking really wrong with that person. Yeah, I definitely think top of mind when we started this project, you know, was how do we tell this story ethically and compassionately? Because it's not just about fatigue and it's about the victims.

You know, these people were all online as diehard fans looking to try to find my, they wanted to be in touch with me, right? So it's like they were unsuspecting and they got tricked, but many of them apologized when I interviewed them and were like, well, what was I doing? I mean, I was a kid, but I was like online looking for your personal phone number and email. Like I, you know, so there was like two sides for this, like where it was like, we need to

be really compassionate and empathetic. We're going to tell this story. We shouldn't be shaming anyone. And, but yeah, I think Aaron, Aaron Lecar, who directed it, you know, she's directed like 10 films. And I think this is her specialty is telling stories in a compassionate and ethical way. And it was a part of our whole team's competition. pretty consistently throughout

was what is appropriate to put in here. There was so much that did not make it in the movie, like wild stuff that we were like, can we put them? Like, is that pink-thaming? Like, there was like some weird conversations we had to have. And ultimately, you know, I think all of us as a team, but Aaron, as our fearless leader, understood,

we sort of pivoted. This isn't a who-done-it. The point was not to unmask or ruin fake Tegan's life. my personal feeling is that many of the people who are involved with this have some mental health stuff and I think this became a bigger conversation about parasycial relationships and, you know, fandoms and taking care of yourself and listening to your instincts.

Every single person I interviewed, every single victim, at some point ignored their instinct. At some point it was like, something feels off. And it's like, don't ignore your instinct people. We do that. We all do that. We all do that because there is that little kernel of like, ooh, it's that's the addictive quality. That's the adrenaline rush. That's that release of that, you know, chemical. You're like, oh, gosh, I know it's wrong, but I have to go to the other side. Really good to meet you guys. Really fun. Thank you for coming on. And I will be watching 100%. I'm very excited about this. Amazing. It's scary. I know. So much more I wanted to talk. to you guys about next time next time next time i appreciate your candor you guys uh and thank you for

for doing this you too thank you having us all right later guys bye cool i'm in a better mood now see what happens i come in hot i come in a little aggravated i have amazing conversations with these two amazing women who are so smart and so articulate and so in touch that was rat. Podcasting is really an interesting thing. Talking to people is interesting. I guess this is why I love doing it. You know, would I do it for free?

No, I would not. But I do love talking to people. I look at these, man, this is, you know, people come on to promote shit, and of course, this is the new mediums sort of promote things on. And half the time, you're kind of like, yeah, yeah, check it out. You know, this.

I cannot wait to see. This is crazy. This is a story like I've never heard before. So everyone should check it out. Anyway, I'm going to go now because I am due for my mid-morning shake on the last day of my liver cleanse. And then tomorrow, well, I want to eat cheeseburgers and pizza and drink beer and all that, but I can't. I got to maintain this beautiful fucking figure. I'm out.

Hi, I'm Jennifer Lopez. And in the new season of the Overcomfort Podcast, I'm even more honest, more vulnerable, and more real than ever. Am I ready to enter this new part of my life? Like, am I ready to be in a relationship? Am I ready to have kids and to really just devote myself and my time? Join me for conversations about healing and great. All from one of my favorite spaces, The Kitchen.

Listen to the new season of the Overcomber podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The Super Secret Bestie Club podcast season four is here. And we're locked in. That means more juicy chisement. Terrible love advice. Evil spells to cast on your ex. No, no, no, we're not doing that this season. Oh, well, this season we're leveling up.

Each episode will feature a special Bestie, and you're not going to want to miss it. My name is Curley. And I'm Maya. Get in here! Listen to the Super Secret Bestie Club on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's your favorite Jersey girl, Gia Judice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rule Star, Sheena Shea.

I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text, one where the other. from me to Ariana, maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual Chaos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis the 4th, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

December 29th, 1975, LaGuardia Airport. The holiday rush. Parents hauling luggage, kids gripping their new Christmas toys. Then everything changed. There's been a bombing at the TWA terminal. Just a chaotic, chaotic scene. In its wake, a new kind of enemy emerged, terrorism. Listen to the new season of Law and Order Criminal Justice System

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.