Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson - Uzo and Chioma Aduba

Episode Date: April 29, 2020

On this episode of "Sibling Revelry," Kate and Oliver are joined by Uzo and Chioma Aduba. They talk about growing up in a family with five kids, the story of their parents, who came to the US from Nigeria, what it was like to share a room, and what happened the night Uzo found out she got cast as Crazy Eyes on "Orange Is The New Black." Executive Producers: Kate Hudson, Oliver Hudson, and Sim SarnaProduced by Allison BresnickEditor: Josh WindischMusic by Mark HudsonThis show is brought to you by Cloud10 and powered by Simplecast.This episode is sponsored by Sakara and Coors Light.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. September is a great time to travel, especially because it's my birthday in September, especially internationally. Because in the past, we've stayed in some pretty awesome Airbnbs in Europe. Did we've one in France, we've one in Greece, we've actually won in Italy a couple of years ago. Anyway, it just made our trip feel extra special.

So if you're heading out this month, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with the co-host feature. You can hire someone local to help manage everything. Find a co-host at Airbnb.ca slash host. Hey, it's your favorite jersey girl, Gia Judice. Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump Rural Star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest.

There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana. Maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. This is a combo you don't want to miss. Listen to Casual Chaos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people, an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show. And we had a blast. Take a listen.

Sue and I were, like, riding the lime bikes the other day. And we're like, we're like, people ride bikes because it's fun. We got more incredible guests like Megan in store, plus no. News of the Day and more. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson. And my name is Oliver Hudson.

We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship. And would it's like to be siblings? We are a sibling revelry. No, no. Sibling reverie. Don't do that with your mouth. Sibling rivalry. That's good.

Today's episode was another one that we actually did in New York before the quarantine was put in order. and it's with Uzo Aduba and her sister Chi-Chi. They were so lovely and we ended up having the best time and it continued till after the interview when we went downstairs and chatted. I know. I was unfortunately on FaceTime again, poking my head in and out, trying to be a part of this awesome conversation.

They were just, I don't know, so happy and filled with life. You know? Yeah, they had a really interesting childhood. Nigerian parents, five siblings. They grew up outside of Boston, and they were both, like, incredible athletes. Chi-Chi especially.

I mean, Uzo, I'm not saying that Uzo had a little bit more of an interest in the arts, so she kind of heard the direction let her elsewhere out of athletics, but Chi-Chi was a really incredible runner. They just seemed to be good at everything. Yeah, and then there's a great story about when she found out she landed Orange is the New Black. Everybody knows Uzo as crazy eyes, you know, because that show was just the best. And we got to talk about that a bit.

And Chi-Chi's a pretty big deal. Like, she's super smart. She's in marketing. And she gave me some really good perspectives on business. I was like, I'm going to call Chi-Chi for advice. Uzo has a show out now on Hulu called Mrs. America, which I'm actually, it's in my cue. It's my next show up. Anyway, I loved their story.

And their laugh, their laugh. I love when they would laugh together at the same time. It was just infectious. Yeah, it was great. I'm sending love to the ladies there in New York. And I hope everybody enjoys this episode. Thank you guys for coming, by the way. This is very cool.

Thank you for having us. Um, let's start with where, uh, you guys were born. And who is the oldest sister? I am older. A year and a half. Oh, wow. But only one year apart in school. Yes, exactly. How many siblings do you have? There are five of us all together. We have three other siblings, two brothers and another sister. And are they older, younger? I'm number four of five. You're number three. So there's two above Uzo. And one below you. And one below me. Same mom or same dad, both? Same mom for all five. two fathers. My mom's first husband passed away when she was really young. Yeah, and then she remarried. But I say that, but then it's like, I also at the same time hate saying that because

it's like I feel like I now need to say like to the wider world, we did not grow up as half siblings. Like that was not the context under which we were like raised. Like we were 100%. Like that is my sister. A hundred percent. That is my brother. 100%. I even though like, they had different last names. I don't think it was until in the fourth or fifth grade that it even connected to me. The reason was, you know what I mean? Like my way in which we related, like, oh, I don't know.

Like, I knew the term half-brother, half-sister, like, it existed in the world, but I never thought it applied. Exactly. Like, I was just like, oh, some people have half-brothers and sisters. I'm not one of them. That's interesting. you guys you guys sound so much alike

this is going to be hard it's crazy no one's going to be able to tell who's talking every time I'm like that we talked about that because people tell us that all the time we're like we're going to be on the radio

like how are people going to distinguish us there's a little bit of a difference in my head my voice is deeper than yours And in my head, my voice is deeper than hers. Really? But we've heard it enough times that we're like, we must sound the same. Since I was a kid, I had like such a deep voice. Like, I would answer the phone and people would be like, hi, Mr. Dubo?

Yeah, yeah. Whatever, I'd be like, sir, and I'd be like, I'm his daughter and I'm eight. Sure. But I don't even correct people anymore. Like, if I order takeout or something and they go, that'll be it, sir. And I'm like, thanks. I do you sometimes Somehow we'll come back to it

But it's like somehow like it's still A little bit of a sticking point Only when it goes on too many times I'm like I'll take the first sir And then if it's like Sir Sir and how will you pay today sir I'm like I'm a ma'am

I just write it out I'm like it's not fair Well what's what's your singing voice Where do you sing? At what range do you sing in? Well, if I'm singing, thank you. If I'm singing classical music at soprano, it's like high. But I will admit it has like a little bit of like a velvety tone.

It's not light. It's still like heavier sounding, but it is up. Do you go into falsetto? Yes. I'm just trying to throw some singing terms out there to just to show that I know what I'm talking about. But I really don't, you know. I'm sort of a, I'm kind of a tenor. I just, you know, I say, I'm like, you're actually, you're in Zerano.

Am I? Yeah, you got your little falsetto that you love. Well, hold on, here, I'll let you judge, you ready? I'll sing a little Stevie Wonder lately. Lately I've had the strangest feeling, very slowly picking me apart. When I tell them, Zimmy, no meaning. How's that? Is that a soprano?

That's like an alto? Yes, it was an alto contralto. It worked, though. Oh, that sounded so good. Thank you guys. I'm going to go now. Do you guys sing together ever? No, I won't.

I can't. What do you mean? We sing for fun. We did. We sang really funny, like, duet songs. songs at karaoke. That's kind of what we would do. What it really used to be was when we were little. It was like starship. We built this city on rock and roll. We built the city and Ollie would let me sing the doot, doot, dude. I was the back. I always was background until I got

older. Okay. So just give us a rundown of your family history. So we grew up in a super small town called Medfield, Massachusetts. It's like 40 minutes from Boston, southwest of Boston, go socks. And like traditional New England town. And our family is Nigerian, and our first generation of Nigerian for us. And that's important because... Well, your first generation American. Yes, yes.

Right. Sorry, first generation of American. Sorry, we did not transplant back to Nigerian. First generation American. Yeah, that's important, I think, because like the town we grew up. up in was not diverse at all. It was pretty much like exclusively white, I would say. The only other non-white people I knew were my siblings. Really? Pretty much. Mr. Hunt? Mr. Hunt? Yeah. How did your mom end up, family end up in that area? Well, they used to be in Newton, but before they

were there, they were in New Jersey, New York. And then my dad got a job in Massachusetts. And they used to live in Newton, and then that was, like, too close to the city for them. They wanted to be more away, basically, like, not have their children have access to the city, like the train, essentially. So they moved down to the suburbs, and that's, and they moved there because school was, like, super important to them, and it was the best public school education in the state, I want to say, at the time, and maybe even still. And so they were like, that is where we're moving to.

We're going to move over there because private school is a gazillion dollars. So we're going to go to that town over there. And your two older siblings. Yeah. How much older are they from you? My immediately older sibling, my sister, she's six years older than me. My sister, Oni, and then my brother, Rich, is eight years older than me. Okay.

So they were still in the house and they were in school. And then what was that school experience like? It was, yeah. I mean, I think it was good. It was good. We were all, like, super involved in activities. We were, like, very scheduled kids, no time to get in trouble, more or less. I feel like, you will be at everything.

So we all did, like, instruments and sports and, you know, the whole gamut. So my family's from Nigeria, right? I think they also, like, very much, my mom, in particular, like, was very much into the American dream. And, like, growing up in a place, you know, where some of those opportunities don't, or a lot of those opportunities don't exist. They were super into exposing their children to everything that, this place can afford you, you know, which is, was very different from what was happening at the time. And like, you know, when you traditionally think about the immigrant experience, like kids, it's usually like school, homework, home. You know what I mean? On repeat and not really like doing the rest of it. But my parents were very much like what Chi Chi Chi said. Like we were in sports. We were doing music. We were doing drama. Everything. Like racing to the school bus with my oversized cello. Like, yeah. All of it. Oh, ballet, all of it. Mom sounds pretty amazing.

She's amazing. She's, like, the best. And I also think because she's the best, yeah. Our mom was also, like, very artistic. Yes. You know, like, she's a beautiful singer, you know, very gifted, like, artist-draer. Yes. Very good athlete.

And so, like, all the things that, like, maybe perhaps she wasn't super involved in growing up, you know, she definitely wanted to make sure that we were super involved in. Yes. Mom used to say, also, she would say, you know, if I'd grown in this country, I probably would have been an artist you know but it's like it's just not even i don't think anybody and thinks about that just because it's you know live or die is a very real thing when did your when did your parents move my mom came in 1970 yes 1970 she came right after the civil war um that happened there the baffron civil war and then she moved back to nigeria for a short spell after uh the passing of her first husband

and then she came back again and then my dad and she came back in the late 70s and then my dad and she came back in the late 70s And then my dad, our dad, you're saying my, my mom. I was like, no, you're sorry, our dad's sorry, which I know is a sticking point for me. I'm like, tell me more about me. Tell me up for your mom. Exactly. Do you want to talk about your house that we grew up into? How about our niece and nephew?

Exactly. Sorry. That's maybe correct. My son, anytime I put it in a text, you know, your niece. But right, our dad, he came in, like, 1975, I want to say he came after her. I know he came after her. And where did they meet? They met here, they met through my godmother.

Oh, okay. Yes, at a party. Oh, okay. Fun. Speak a little bit to your mom and her story and what kind of mother she was. Is she tough? Yes. Give a little bit of the history.

of mom she survived polio she had polio she got it when she was i want to say like anywhere between four and six years old she developed it and was told um that she would never not only that she had polio but she would never walk which proved untrue her her aunt was a nurse at a hospital in um a separate part of nigeria where her family lived and my grandparents our grandparents sent her to live there with her aunt so that she could get treatment at that hospital and the only way my mom always described it she was she remembers it was very hard you know she was like they were always stretching my leg stretching my leg you know my mom was born in 1941 so we're talking like the 40s 50s you know um like Nigeria 40s exactly Nigeria 40s which

exactly and it's like Even when you think about being here, you know, the president at that time, FDR has, you know, this is, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, yeah, exactly. And so, whatever treatment that they were doing on her, she did wind up walking. They told her she would be, um, like, have a delicate leg. Like, she would be like, borderline crippled to use that language. Um, and that she couldn't play sports. Those are the words that were said for her. She wouldn't be able to play sports, this and that. Her, mother did not subscribe to that at all. Like we come from a very strong line of women. Her mother did not subscribe to that and was adamant about telling her all the time she could do whatever she wants, can do anything that she's able. And like Chi-Chi mentioned before, my mom fell into sports with this leg that, you know, just like a piece of the heel of it doesn't touch the ground, the heel of her foot doesn't touch the ground. And she still managed to become an accomplished track and field athlete

but really her skill was tennis and she went on to win the women West African women's singles tennis champion a story none of us believed for the longest time ever. As children.

That's not true. That didn't happen until she came back from Nigeria once with the trophy and we're like you really did win. You know, so. Wow. Yeah and she was an superb athlete we mentioned before

you know there was a civil war happening in Nigeria that my mom both our parents very much so lived through and the people that were under attack were our tribe the ebo tribe and it was happening in our region of the country which i i don't even know if i could even begin to know the wholeness of what that was like you know, I remember rating Chimamanda Adichie's half of a yellow son, the author of Americana. And after having read this book, Half of a Yellow Sun, I remember being like, oh, I think I understand my parents better now. Because the things that just go unspoken about what it's like to live through a war, not your country's at war in this foreign place, but you are living in it. You know, the shells and the shell sirens are happening in your play, you know, all of that. Does she openly talk about those things?

More now. Mm-hmm. More now. I don't know if it's just distance and time that makes it possible for her to talk about it. Definitely not really when we were kids. I think it was just like she'd reference like the war and just be like you might get like a random, you know, the war happened or, you know, when I don't even think she really talked about it in detail. No, but I do feel like she always kind of like marked time by it because you don't say like, after the war. You know, like, that was like a phrase that was like common. Like,

yeah, before the war. Like, you know, like the war was like a significant chapter for sure. Were your parents conscious of, you know, making sure that the kids, you know, knew where they came from as far as culturally went, you know, or were they like, okay, we're in the U.S. now and we're living amongst like a thousand white people and, you know, this is our lives or were they very it was it all about like no okay this is where we come from and and have pride in it take pride in it yes enormous enormous pride i think with like without speaking to for my parents i think there was a real fear of like well a pride there's definitely a pride of being Nigerian but i think also a fear of everything that they are

And what our family is, because we come from a place where your history is extremely, your cultural history and your family history are extremely important. And that the idea of that across Nigeria, not just like exclusive to my family, but like, but also very important to my parents as well. So I think there was a fear of that being lost, being in this America where you would just suddenly. be not understanding language, not understanding food, not understanding the respect for your elders, and the list could go on and on. And our house, growing up in this suburb, it was crazy because it's like you step outside of the house and you're very much in America. Yeah. And then as soon as you come into it, you are living in Nigeria from the food, you know, like my sister, My Chi-Chi and our brother, junior, we would joke about how, like, growing up, you know, like,

what's for dinner? It would be, like, until we learn to cook for ourselves, it would be rice and something. Like, it's like, every day. Like, rice and something. Like, Nigerian food, you know what I mean? Or Farina, foo, foo, and something. You know what I mean? That's what we're eating.

That's what we're enjoying. Those are the people, you know, we went into Boston, into the city where there was a pretty good size, I would say Nigerian community at that time who's, you know, that, that kinship and, you know, they were proud that we were in America having those American experiences

and that we, and obviously clear that we were American, but you know, you are Nigerian first because Nigeria, it has nothing to do with geography. It has everything with your culture. Were you guys ever like, like, I know more rice, I just want to go to friendlies. Like, I just

friendly. I know. That is so, A, I don't know, where did you pull that for? My wife, my wife is from, you know, like, oh, wait, we used to work at Friendlies. That's why I was our first job, sorry. Yeah, that's fripple. Yes, absolutely. We can make you one if you want. What did that feel like for you guys when you said like, oh, it was a white neighborhood

and you come into our house and culturally, it's just completely different? What was that like for you growing up? Yeah. There were certain markers that, like, stand out of my mind that I remember. being like, oh, like, our household is like different than yours. I remember when I had a friend or I don't remember which friend it was, but mom was cooking some Nigerian stew, sue or stoop, and we went and me and my, this friend went into our bedroom.

And I remember she was like, what is your mom making? And I was like, oh, you don't have this at your house, you know? And then I also just remember we would do like heritage days, you'd bearing like traditional clothing and things. And I was just like, oh, like, this is very different too. I think day in and day out, it was it, I mean, I think more so I felt a difference because we were black. Yeah.

And then there were certain moments where I felt a very big difference where it was because we were Nigerian, you know. Did you experience much racism, like, in elementary school in your sort of insulated neighborhood? You know, because sometimes it would get, racism might even exist in the bigger cities more than even in these sort of insulated neighborhoods. You know, I think that's a really good question. Honestly, yes. And I would say, though, where this is like where the hat tip for like our older siblings. go our older siblings took so much heat they like had to take they were like the more I think about it like the older I am about growing up like the wall of impact that they served to

to allow us to have the experience that we had right is unbelievable and I would never particularly my older brother because he was first and he took so much of that from bullying like horrible bullying like he took so much you know um that is unimaginable guy my mom used to tell this story about and this is like her strength but she also was just like an animal my mom was just a mama bear you know like he had gotten beaten up once um and picked on picked on picked on and my mom said he's never to start a fight, but he should give him permission wants to finish it if somebody ever threw a punch on him. And that happened. And then he went to school and the teacher saw that the boy

that had been calling him all of these racist, horrible things had been, you know, he'd gotten a black eye or whatever. And he said, Ricky hit him. And they sent my brother to the principal's office and without even asking about what happened, suspending him on spot. Yes, but also remember, like, this had been going on for, like, months and months. These kids were, like, smashing my brother's lunch at the bus stop, tormenting him. My mother had been to the school, up and down, left and right, to these parents' homes being like, do you know what your children are doing to my child? And nothing was done about it.

And then the second my mom is like, you listen, if they're not going to do anything, then you do something. Yes. And then on the spot, a reprimand is administered, but never in the opposite direction. Absolutely. My brother only was suspended. And then they called mom, and they were like, you need to come down to. the school and pick up your son. He's been suspended.

And she already knew that this fight had happened. It happened off school. And she was like, why? And they were like, oh, he beat up another kid. She's like, did you ask them what happened? What the fight was about? He said, no. She said, I'll be right there.

And she's in Boston at work. She calls my dad. She's like, we need to go to school. They're like, he's like, uh-uh. She's like, now. So they show. It's like, so they come to the school. She's sitting in the principal's office, and she's like, so you suspended my son, said, yeah, said, do you ask him what happened?

He said, no. She said, do you know that this boy came into my backyard and threw my son's ball and then hit my son, threw my son's ball into the woods, soccer ball, and then hit my son. And that is how that boy got this black guy. And they're like, no, we didn't know. And do you know that this boy has been calling him this thing, this thing? monkey this da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da and that's how this fight happened she said let me tell you something right now because they took him off suspension they didn't know all of that happened they took their suspension suspension away she said let me tell you something right now

if ever i have to come down to this school again or something like this i will sue you I will sue this teacher I will sue this school this school will go from being called the Thomas A. Blake's school to the non-year at Dubas school I love your mom

she's amazing she was not she didn't come to play and that was like she saw it she knew it was there she'd had her own experience moving from a place

where everyone looked like her, and she was not defined by her race, to now living in a place where people had decided her entire identity, the makeup of who she was, was based on what she looked like. You know, my mom, our mom always used to say, she's like, I never knew there was anything wrong with being black until I moved to America, you know? And that was kind of like the fierceness, you know, that she lived with, you know, and came with and was refusing to allow that to, I don't know, define or I think to at all alter the way we perceived ourselves. Like, we were not going to be limited by the limitations that this country had.

Right. And our older brother and sister took bullets for us, invisible bullets. You know what I mean? that allowed for the three of us because you know the age gap it's like then came us through like whatever year school to go through with with a greater ease yeah you know what i mean either because they were scared or not do about or because they were awful you know but also but seriously like they took they took they took they took the heavy lift wow that's that's that's so uh i i'd never thought of thought of thought of it like that you know what i mean where

you know you have your older siblings who cushioned so much you know who paved away even and who had to sacrifice a lot not just circumstantial sacrifice really but took the brunt of it you know so the younger ones could maybe have a bit more of a harmonious situation i'll tell sister i'll tell another story also for my sister our sister was brilliant top of her class like a brilliant brilliant girl and they were going into high school and um i think it was like her it was a math teacher or science teacher science teacher and um for whatever reason she was like number one in her class but he didn't think she should be in the high honors class going into high school and my mom you know very Nigerian's like how is that possible

I've seen every grade. You know what I mean? And so she's scheduled, what do you call it? Like a parent teacher conference and was like, he was like, so the recommendation you've given for her is to be in the honors class, not the high honors class. Like, yes. And she said, what was your recommendation for the person who's third?

He said, high honors. And she said, uh-huh. And your recommendation for the person who was second. He said, high honors. So you mean to tell me that the one who's three and two, you think should be in high honors. But my daughter, who is number one, should be in honors. He said, sir, I'm no math teacher. But that does not add up.

And that's who she is. And she was in high honors. And she did excellent ways. Wow. Well, first of all, first of all, can I just say that, like, I, I could sit here for three hours listening to you just play your mother. Yeah, I mean. Number one. And the other, actually, a question, like, where was your dad in all this as far as that went?

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, yeah, he's there. You know what's funny? Like, he's home and in our home. But, like, the parenting in our culture is very much, well, and also I have a very, we have a very strong mom. But the parenting is very much so, like, left to the mother in, you know, in our culture. Like, that's who raises and does the day-to-day, you know, caretaking, existing, you know what I mean? He'll pipe it.

He'll sit there in the meeting while she's going, but she's running that ship. My mom is running the show. She is, like, the head of that house. She is the boss. in that way she is the one like calling those shots without question period like yeah that's her boat what did your father do he's an accountant he's an accountant and was he working all the time yes both of them were yeah i mean it's like five kids they're living in this like pretty posh town you know just for us to like go to the school um and living here without any you know like

like any help. My parents were both the first from their families to come to the United States. So they were by themselves, no grandparent, like nothing. There was nobody but themselves. So your older siblings, too, were, like, there for you guys a lot. Absolutely. And even more, I remember having, like, didn't you have, like, a parent, a parent-daughter, child lunch? And, like, in your school, I mean, there's five children and only two parents.

Yeah. I mean, like, O'Ne, I remember, would come down from the high school and come sit at the lunch with me. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like, yeah, you know, like they did a big role of like, you know, you know, filling in the gaps where we needed to. Absolutely. And like I think also, I think also though like when we were really little, I'm not, I have to ask mom. I'm not definitely sure about this. But I don't know if they understood the importance of those things. Oh, yeah. Do you know what I mean? I grew up in this country. They're just like, yes. They're like, I'm giving you somewhere to live. And I tell you I love you every day. Like now you

want me to go on a field trail? Like, hey, God. Also, because parents there in Nigeria, like, children, siblings do raise each other. You know what I mean? Like, my mother and both my parents, my father raised his younger siblings. My mother raised her younger siblings. And it's not, it's just a cultural norm that is entirely different from, like, here. Tell that story about the field hockey, though. Yeah. So my parents worked in Boston. It was 45 minutes away. So, like, coming in for, like, special events and things that happened during the day where it was harder for them. And I remember my senior year, like for field hockey, they had this thing for senior day where all the parents' moms in particular came to the game and that took place at like two in the

afternoon. And before the game, they announced all the seniors and you had a rose and you had to go find your mom in the crowd and give your mom the rose. And like, thank you so much. We're sending the seniors off in style. And I remember I was like, mom, don't forget senior day is on Thursday. She's like, I don't know if I can be there. I don't do as good a mom as soon. And I'm like, I have to work. And I'm like, oh, man. I was like, I really want you to be there, really want you to be there. I remember that morning. I was like, are you going to come to my senior day? She's like, I can't come to senior day. My mom was a social worker. And she's like, I have to be in court, you know, this day. And I'm not going to make it. And I've asked Mrs. Swanson, who is our neighbor. And then I left. And then I was like super upset. And I was like, fine, whatever. And then I left. And then I just remember being at the game and this is also like the version in my 17 year old mind that I remember

and um we're starting the senior day ceremony and like the crowd parts and then all of a sudden I see my mom coming through and like I'm immediately crying which I tended to do as a joke and I'm like oh my god my mom is here and Mrs. Swanson is also there prepared um and I was like what is going on and I like give her my rose and uh you know after the ceremony finishes like how did you get here and she was like I went to the judge and I was like excuse me judge it's my daughter's senior day it's really important to her it was another woman she was like is it possible for me to testify first and she was like I'm a working mom too mrs adiba get up here and she went first and then careen down the highway to make it there for two o'clock and we have like a beautiful picture of that that is

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Back in the Rockies. Always trying to get back. I can't wait to get back. I can't wait to get back. Oh my God, me too. And crack open a cores light. I was going to say, what's the first thing you're going to do when you hit our ranch, Ollie? Crack open a Coors light, although I crack them open here in my garage in Los Angeles as well. But I've always loved me at Coors Light

since a very, very long time ago. One of my favorite things about Coors is their calorie count, I have to say, and their WW number. I'm a formerly known as Weight Watchers, W.W. Ambassador and it's three points is a Coors Light, which is really good for an alcoholic beverage. And it's 102 cowards. Perfect. So I like that. That means. Right. It's literally made to chill because the mountains on the bottles and the cans, they turn blue. When your beer is cold, I know I've said it a million times, but it just doesn't get old to me. So that's why Coors Light

is the one that I choose when I need a moment of chill. So when you want to reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. You can have Corz Light delivered, delivered by going to get dot, coreslight.com, and finding local delivery options near you. You need to include Celebrate responsibly, okay? And Corr's brewing company, Golden Colorado, within each read. So I just did that. So you're a year and a half apart. Yeah. I mean, I'm assuming. you did everything growing up together. Yes and no.

Yes. I feel like we started doing everything together and then like our interests and skills kind of like pulled us into slightly different directions. Yes. And then like wait, when are you talking about like forever? No, no, not like personally. I mean just like you got more into arts. I was like varying to sports.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But still shared a room. Yeah. Geographly. Yes. Exactly. So you shared a room growing up. Shared a bed even.

Really? Very early. Very early when we were like very small because the house we lived in before our parents added an addition to it, we shared a bed together. And then we got our own room after they added to the house. We had our room that we shared together, and we shared a room for the rest of our lives,

basically. Did you feel weird when you had your own room? She got her own room, but I still feel like even after you got your own room. That you slept probably in the same bed. You're probably like, that's how I would be. Yes.

We got, so we had went from sharing a bed to sharing a room. It was like because our other sister, the three of us were in one room. And then she got her own room. And then the two of us shared our room together. Forever. And then when my older brother went to college, then his room was open. So then I moved out.

And I moved downstairs. And I was like, my own room. And then, like, my older sister moved and went to college. And then I was by myself. I was like, I hate this. And I went back upstairs. And I was like, I want to come back in this room. And I, like, came back.

And we shared, it was like, I mean, it was like a window of like, I don't even think it was a year. But I don't even know how long that time was. But I came back upstairs and we like were back in that room together. Yeah. Totally. Well, my boys stay in the same room. We have another room for them to be in if they would like it. But they want to be together.

Yes. They want to, they love it. I mean, the nighttime stuff, the talking, the chatting. Yes. You know, it's their domain. It's their space. Totally. And that's your time, like, at night.

I always say, like, people are like, I hope my kids, my sister, my daughters are as close as you guys. And I'm like, it's sharing a room. I'm like, I just feel like that late night chatter is like, what does the trick? Yeah, especially when you can't sleep or your, by the way, I lived in your room for most of my childhood. Yeah, but I didn't really want you there. I know, I know. But you never said no.

I was going to say, did you quietly like it, though? Yeah, I mean, probably I felt I was scared myself and someone she came in. room. I was like, oh, my God, thank God she's here. Yeah. That was like our little brother, our little brother, Jr. He had his own room, like, what Chi Chi just said about, like, the nighttime, like, chat, talk, pillow talk, whatever. Like, we'd be, like, in our room, like, talking.

And obviously, we must have been, like, laughing and talking loudly enough that he could hear us from his room. And he started, like, coming into our room. And he would, like, like, sorry, Jr. started with like a sleeping bag started with a sleeping bag and then it like evolved and first we were like get out

and he was like no like you know whatever and then it started with a sleeping bag and then it moved to like a full on cot that he brought from the basement this was our family same thing what was the sibling dynamic like like just with all of you guys

like how did the hierarchy work was there someone at the top did that shift who was the baby you know who needed more coddling who was more independent how did it all like map out i would say definitely when we were like the our smallest my old because our parents worked a lot so my older brother and older sister for sure would like get us ready for school and get us ready you know like help our parents to get us out the door or whatever and they would do a lot of that but without question i would say like my older sister has always been like she's a strong

force and she's she's a mom she was born she was born to be a mother my older sister like if i can name one job i know for sure she was meant to have like absolutely she was supposed to parent and um she was like i think even though she's second born she would like lead on that front and um is that right fair i think that's totally fair she would lead on that front and like i don't know that kind of for until recently i said she went from like parentified child i think you know, like had that responsibility to absolutely big sister to then I think like for me anyway, when she got married, that was when it was just like not even the title of big sister anymore, just like sister. You know what I mean? Like because we went through that experience

of like putting, arranging things and assembling that together, you know, that I think made it feel like the gap closed because we had such a large gap and it just like closed in a different way. That's such a good way of putting that. She's not like, watching me anymore. We're just people now. Equal. Exactly. Exactly.

And I also feel like you became like more in the same station in life. Like we're all like out of school and all those things. And like I always notice it like when like the the channel of advice became a two-way street. You know what I mean? Where it's like she could also come to us and ask, you know, like, you know, like this is happening. What do you think? Where it used to just always be like, oh, need, like tell me what to do. You know?

You know? Yeah. It was like a little bit more equal. Equal. Yeah. Yes, for sure. Yeah, because that's eight years, right? Yeah. Six years for me.

Eight years for me. Yeah. That's a pretty big gap. Yeah. You know, when I was six, only's 12, and she's like doing whatever she's doing at 12 years old, like sleepovers and stuff like this. And I'm trying to be like, I want to, I'm coming downstairs to be with you guys. And she's like, get at it. You know what I mean?

Like that kind of thing to then like not being as obnoxious. So she's like, I would say that tribesmen. I would then say growing up. up with the dynamic, I would say, then, like, Rich was like... That's our oldest brother. That's our oldest brother. He's like, I feel for him because it's like him, then three girls. And that's like a brother who's 10 years younger.

Who came 10 years too late. Exactly. Just in the nick of 10 years. Just in the nick of 10 years too late. So he was just like fun older brother, Rich when we, you know, we're growing up. But I also feel like he's really, like, if Oni's like off doing a her thing, he's like really off doing something different than. what we were doing, but equally now, like, in our tribe.

What do they do? My older brother, he, am I talking to my... No, go. My older brother... Yeah, no, you know, it's fine. You sound just like, I'll start saying that that was me. I said that. That was me.

All the good jokes were me. Everything weren't lagged. My older brother sells insurance. My older sister is a chemist, does cancer research. Chi-Chi can answer for herself. I work in advertising and marketing. Right? Yes.

And then our young... brother, Obie is his real name, but we all call, everybody call him junior in our house. He was a hockey player until recently played minor hockey and is now figuring out what his next, he just had two kids. That's so cool. figuring out what he's going to do with this next chapter in his life. That's awesome. So when did you guys start to go into your own, you said, we started becoming our own people and you went more into the arts and you went more into sports. Yeah. So what did that look like for you? Like, what were you into? Sports. Well, I did all sorts of sports. I did field hockey and track and field and high school and college. And we both always did like sports together. And, you know, I danced and played instruments. But just like over time, I like, wasn't that great at that stuff. And she was. She's being very much.

And she was just more successful like in sports. But Uzo actually was good at everything. But I think in college, like she, we both ran track in college. And Uzo was also your, I can't remember. vocal performance major and that just became more of your like where your heart was at and my heart was more in sports and I think it was just it was also I think good too because we had like our own places where we you know excelled and just had different more interest but I also think like in high school we were always like the aduba sisters or the aduba kids and you know when I went to my own college I almost went to school with her because we were so close but it was a good thing because I finally just instead of being an aduba sister and a duba kid I was just cheeching you know I think that even happened though like before before

going to college, like, upon graduating from high school. Yes. I wasn't there to witness it because I was in college at the time. But, like, my sister, she's too humble to, like, ever say it. But, like, she's like, I ran track. And it's like, you did not just run track. You were an all-American. You were like, at one point, like, number three in the country.

She was, like, a serious, went to the Olympic trials, like, for real track and field athlete. She would never say anything. What was your event? What was your, what was the one? I did long jump, triple jump. sprint relays. Yes, at Penn State, one of the best programs in the country. Go state, I'll say it for you. Yes. But I say that because, I say it because it's like, I am so proud

because of what she just said, like, we were the aduba sisters or like the aduba kids and all of this. Everything that she did in the sport after I had graduated, like, she like stepped into her space and like she took off. When you left, did you immediately, start going, oh, I'm definitely like immersing myself in the arts during college, or did that start to happen more in high school? It started more in high school for me. Like I'd always been, you know, doing artistic things. And then when we were like running track together, I started like doing, you know, musicals and stuff and running track was in the spring and it conflicted. Our musicals were in the spring. And so rehearsal for the musical Pippen and I was playing the leading player

in that show and rehearsals were starting to conflict with practice and obviously you know like special treatment can't be shown you know as far as like you're i think there's like a limit to number of practices you're allowed to miss before you can't be on the team or something and um even though i was like training well and you know was a integral part of our track team i could just feel a distinct shift that where i wanted to choose and mostly be was at rehearsal and i remember my coach coming to me and being like, you know, are you going to, you have to decide which one you're going to do, like, you can't do both. And I was like, oh, okay, I'm going to go and do the musical. And he's like, wait, wait. Like, that's that. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I had a similar experience.

Yeah. In sports. I had the same thing with soccer. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. And I remember that when that happened. And I was just like, oh, you're really serious about this stuff. Because like, I feel like my whole life, like, there's like a moment when I like realize you were very, very, very, talented but before that i was just like stop singing all of them all of them oh god that was my whole life oh well kate was always performing i mean constantly constantly performing what is going on look everyone likes you we know that you're here but that's not what it was about no you see people don't understand that don't understand it you just love it i used to lock myself in my room and just, like, perform for myself.

Well, we would send her to the garage for that. I'd be, like, singing, like, I can still, I wish you could be inside my head to hear, like, the actual pitch. Like, I'd be downstairs singing in the, like, like, fullness of my voice, like, fully in basement. And you could hear from upstairs, Uzo! Shut up!

It overtook everything. The TV, the radio. your own thoughts? Like I was like, oh my God. And I'd be like, I practice it! I know. I'm like, yeah, you need to let it out. I'm living with that now because I have a daughter.

My daughter is, she's six. This is his karma. And she is a combination of my sister and my mother. And it's all performance all the time. It doesn't stop. From the minute she wakes up to the minute she goes to sleep, You know, she's performing plays or doing whatever she's doing. Yes.

And you go from, you know, wow, look what she's doing to, like, can you just keep it down and trying to watch the debate. Yeah. Or you see, I love watching Rio, like, especially when we're all on a family trip, like in Colorado. And Rio will go into fields. And this is where I'm like, oh, it's in the blood. I know that feeling.

As a matter of fact, I might go join her. And she's in the field. and she's like her arms are going and she's looking out and she's looking into the sun and like you can see she's in something she's in a movie

she's in a cartoon It's actually really beautiful and I will say this Kate okay and I haven't said this to you yet it makes me appreciate who you were when you were a baby when you were little you know because watching my daughter

you know be this person and doing it truly for herself and not trying to perform for anyone it's just it makes her happy it brings her joy just to create and to imagine and so all of the times that I sort of beat Kate down for the ball or what I perceived is just this bullshit of trying to get attention I have a different perspective on it now because I can see my I can see Kate in my daughter you know that's so sweet Oliver thank you for saying that I love you I'm just trying to win podcast awards all because you want one trophy just one trophy on your mantle I need something I need was there harmony in the house all the time I mean was there was it a beautiful loving household all the time were there fights I feel like anybody who tells you that their family was like

harmonious every single minute of the day is lying. Yeah. Or I didn't grow in that house anyway. Yeah. Absolutely fights. I mean, me and this one fought like cats and dogs. Really? Oh my gosh.

Like, absolutely. Absolutely. It's like funny because it's like there is no person. She's my best friend. Period. End of story. Let me like start there. And of my siblings, I think it's also fair to say that like of all of us,

we are the closest. we are We're close in the age We're close in the age We shared a room too on top of that They were all close But like within that closeness Like the two of us are close

Yeah And I say that to say that it's like It's so bizarre to me That that that happened Not bizarre that it happened But like it's amazing Because it's like We definitely were like

tearing at each other as kids You know to be like That's my I mean from clothes Ever it was ever physical Yes I'll take your word That was the best reaction ever. Drop down, drag out.

Like brothers ripping you off each other. Drop down, drag out. You love each other. Yeah, I know. I'm just kidding. Full on, like, fully like, Chee-J. And it's like, get off me.

You know what I mean? Like, going full tilt in. Absolutely. Absolutely. But, like, she's like my best. I don't even want to say best friend. Like you're my sister. Like my best, very best, I say my very best friend,

whenever I talk about you, like that's my best. Was there ever a time, though, when it was so contentious that it was like, I'm not talking to you, fuck off, you know, it was one of those moments in your life. Did you ever have that, you know? Not for an extent. No, I was going to say, I feel like we always were very quick to make up.

And these fights, like, although they could be like super intense, usually started with, are those my jeans? Yeah. We're going to World War 3 Over like some petty dumb shit Yeah nobody stole anyone's I'm like I'm talking like Exactly

Who ate that sandwich? I know it was you Did you eat my sandwich It's like I clearly said like it's like That kind of like I clearly said That sandwich in the fridge was mine And be like I didn't like whatever You'd be like I fucking did you know

And you can go like full Yes. Full tilt over nothing. Over nothing. What was your motivation for crazy eyes? Basically. You're like, hold on a second. I know this, girl.

Yes, exactly. Full tilt. Like full tilt. But we can, but also make up like we do make up very quickly. When you left for college, what was that like for you? Did you feel the loss of your sister like not being in the house? Yeah, I think so. But I also think I kind of enjoyed it a little bit at first. I'm trying to think, did I cry when you, I cried when you left for college. Yes, I have a story about that. Yeah, I need that to your guy. Let's see it in your eyes. Oh, do you share. Yeah. Okay, so I was like super ready to go to college. Like, I was like excited. I don't know, like probably from the oozo, shut up. Like, was ready to like have a space not just like, by the way, it's not just Chi Chi. It's like all of my siblings thing. And like having a space to be like, I'm.

going to get to like thing and be loud and I'm going to be around like other artists people I went to school for the arts so I was like stoked and I don't know what about college was like so exciting to me but the idea was like I'm going to college you know whatever I remember I used to after my high school graduation like all the stuff you know the graduation gifts you get whatever yeah I would like go through the pile and like rearrange it just to have as much contact to the moving out as I could possibly have, whatever. And I would say I remember all that summer and be like, you guys, I'm going to college.

Like, I'm not going to live here anymore. And Chi-Chi specifically would always be like, you're not going that far. You're going to Boston. Like, I went to Boston University. Go Terriers. And they'd be like, she'd be like, you're going to be 45 minutes away. Like, I can come and see you whenever I want.

And I'd be like, stop trying to tear down my sails. Like, I'd be like, I'm going like, I'm like, get over yourself. She's like, it's not far. Like, I can see you whatever I want. And I was like, yeah, but like, I don't live here. Like, you know, it kept like reiterating that and being like, I'm going to be gone like this, that, and the other all summer long. And then the day I was going to school also was the day when you had double sessions for field.

You remember they used to do double sessions for field hockey? And so you couldn't like tryouts for her, for the team. And so she couldn't come with me because you have, like in order to be on the team or whatever, you have to do double sessions. so she couldn't come with our family to move me in. And so I just remember being in the kitchen. And she was running out with her field hockey stuff. And I was like, chichy, I'm going to college today. She's like, oh, right, yeah.

Okay, bye. Have a good time. Like, give me a good time. She's like, have a great time. Like, I'll see you later. I was like, okay, bye. Leaves. And I went back to doing whatever I was doing in the kitchen.

And it was August. And so our, like, main door was open. but, you know, like, the glass screen door, whatever, was closed. And I just know I had my back turn to the door. And I was doing whatever I was doing in there. And I just heard the glass door open and, like, shut. And I was like, who just came in the house? And it was Chi-Chi.

And she was, like, gave me, like, the biggest hug. And she was like, I'm really going to miss you. She was like, I love you so much. Like, I'm so really sad you're not, like, going to be here anymore. And then I wound up saying I was like, Chi Chi, I'm going, I'm only going to be 45 minutes away. I'm like saying back to her, like all the things. Like you can come and visit me anytime.

You know what I mean? Like all of that. Like, and I was sad because it's like, it's Chi Chi. You know, you were only 45 minutes away. Did your relationship shift even though you were so close? Because you were sort of becoming independent from your family, you know? And did you guys separate? a little bit, even emotionally, or no?

I don't think so. Yeah, not emotionally, but definitely, like, you did not come home every weekend. You were not, like, one of those people, even though you were only 45 minutes away, you did feel like you were away, for sure. And we were both super busy. But, and then I also think that, like, I, you know, became more independent, like, you know, I was also very, like, like that before. Chee-Chi.

Let's talk about what you got into, your track and field, but now you're, like, doing all this amazing. marketing stuff. I mean, share with us what you're doing. Yeah. So I work at an advertising agency, a global agency, and we basically just develop campaigns and, you know, guide and steward brands. You know, we have brands like MasterCard and Microsoft, like big global ones that are cool and a lot of fun. So we work with, like, creative teams and come up with campaigns and things and, you know, strategists and like really understand consumers and really kind of help architect the vision in the future where we want to take a particular brand. So it's a lot of fun. Do you like it? Do you like what you do? I love what I do. It's super fun. And I also think this is a really good time to be doing it. I feel like consumers now are so aware of brands. Before in the past, I feel like you went to the store and you picked up your like paper towels and your whatever. And you didn't really think so much about what that brand meant or what it stood for. And now I feel like, especially like, you know, millennials and Gen Z are super aware of like, does this brand align with my value? And they are going to cast their

vote with their dollar. And it's amazing to see, like, some of these, like, young brands coming up in the world completely in, like, the digital social space. And you think of, like, you know, Casper and, you know, Peloton and all these things. They barely spend anything. But it's like, people just, you know, they're like, this is aligned with what I believe in, you know, and I'm, I'm going to support that. Okay. Well, I love that. Now, for you, everybody really knows you as crazy eyes, which everyone fell in love with. How has it been sort of now that the curtains closed on that show. It was definitely sad when it finished, for sure.

And I think it was weird because it was sad more so the start of it that year than the end of it, I would say. Well, the end was sad because, you know, obviously when they say series rap. But we knew or some of us knew going into the season previous that it was, or the, yeah, going into the season previous that we were ending. So the start of it was more sad, I felt like, because. You know this is the last one, and I was feeling overwhelmed with that sadness initially. And then I just kind of changed the thought in my mind to really appreciate every end as I had the first season that we did.

It's like, this is the first episode one. And I'm so excited. I'm going to enjoy this. And then when we finished, feeling like this is the last episode one, you know, I'm going to enjoy this and have that experience. I think when we finished, it was sad on the days we'd work with the last direction. for that, you know, that we'd been working with. And it was sad when we finished, but it didn't really hit, I think, the level of it

until when we would normally be coming back to work, we weren't coming back to work, you know, because when we finished, it's when we would normally be finishing. So you're used to that seven years of routine of rapping and then you're going to have a break. Seven is a long time. It's a long time.

And I think what I was saying before, earlier when we were talking about it, I think the thing that is hardest about it is missing the assumption. Like, I miss assuming that I'm going to see, you know, Dash. I'm going to see Jackie. I'm going to see Diane. I'm going to see Danielle. I'm going to see, you know, on Friday when, or sometime during this, like, episode. I'm going to have that experience. That's the saddest part about it, I would say. What are you looking forward to? I am looking forward to hopefully getting to keep telling stories that I found as interesting

as I found Orange to be and characters as well as characters as the one I found to be playing on Orange to Be. And I say it's interesting because it's like, I don't know, before I, like, obviously, an actor like it's like we are like 50% full narcissist and like 50% like please clap of us and then like 50% like why am I nobody believes in it you know I'm terrible you know like that kind of a thing yeah you know what I mean like we live both worlds or I do anyway simultaneously in my head and space but like what I know is my core thing is that I love doing this like you were saying earlier it's like Kate was downstairs just like it wasn't on you weren't being on you were just like doing it because you love it and like the same has always been true

I didn't come into this business to like for like the glitter and the like you know what I mean it was like I was doing where we were in Greenwich Village I did love according to Luke yeah not the second job I ever had in New York right around the corner from here at a 99 seat house black box around the corner still to this day as one of the best shows I ever got to be a part of You understand what I'm saying? That's the show where I realized you were good. I'm like, you're really good. But I loved it. But it's like that was the animal that I was feeding. Everything I just said, it's like at the same time, one of my favorite jobs that I've ever had, I made $75 total for it.

And it was literally to buy a Subway Pass to get me to and fro from it. That was the money that they gave me. And that was, I was waiting tables at the time. Like, I genuinely did not care. Like, I loved it. I thought the show was amazing. I thought the music was amazing. I thought everybody in it was amazing.

I loved doing it. I'm here in the city. Like, boom, you know, like I loved it. But I also am a person, and I understand I can't live off of $75 forever. You know what I mean? And I knew I wanted to keep doing that kind of work that excited me, but at a higher level. You know what I mean? That was what I wanted.

I was like so excited when Orange came, because it had that level of interest and satisfaction artistically up here in my heart and gut that I was getting at theater for a new city, at the, you know, whatever, the storefront theater, whatever. You know what I mean that I was doing before, New York Theater Workshop, doing the seven, whatever. And I'm very grateful that the jobs that came after Orange that I've been a part of have had that feeling in them. But you also knew that you had to grow up in a sense, you know, meaning like you were not willing to live out your days at $75 doing great work. You were willing to give that up. I think I had been very much so strictly in theater, one part because I loved it. And then, if I'm being really honest, another part because I did not believe that there was a space for me in the other. And the idea of reaching. for it and being told no because you don't look like the girl that we put in these

projects. I'd never seen a space for myself exist. Like it just didn't. And the truth was I was afraid of like that rejection and like not just like oh my work rejection, like a rejection of myself. I can't change myself to suddenly be whatever was. in vogue at the time and it felt um too dangerous to dream it too dangerous a thing to dream for or reach for and then at the year that i quit which was 2012 i was doing a show on broadway in new york and i don't know like i honestly don't know i somewhere in me I think opened up to actually try. It was the first time I took an on-camera class

since moving to New York. I'd never taken one before. And I was like, let me see about this thing. And I got... This whole TV thing. You're like, we see about it. But I think it was like somewhere in me, I think I like wanted to dare.

And I would go. and take this class, like, I don't know, however long it was that I was taking it for. And then I met a manager who came to see the show, who lived in L.A., and she wanted to meet with me. And I was like, I need help. I don't know how to do this at all. And she was like, I think, you know, because after she had said, like, because I retired for film and television, I was like, no. And she was like, I think you should give this a go. And I was like, I need help doing this. And honestly, Oliver, like, I think because she lived in Los Angeles.

Angeles, I was like, this woman from Hollywood thinks I can do this. I think that was my thought. And it gave me like a little bit of hope. And I had never let myself hope for it. And so then when she was like, you're not, we're not taking any, she was like, we're not taking any theater auditions or theater offers were only strictly focusing on film and television. And I was like, I've never been offered a theater job of my life. I was like, but we can all live in that space. If that's what you think is like where I'm... Sure. No more offers. Totally. You know what I mean? I was like, you know, and like I was really trying now.

You know, like, and it was scary because A, that's how I was making my life. Like by that point I was making my living, you know, doing acting. It was a humble living, but I was making it. and I was very proud of it. But I was now, like, not working. The little money I had saved is, like, disappearing faster than night. And on top of it, I was, like, auditioning a ton you guys. And it was, like, constantly no, like, every single part thing, everything, no.

And so I quit because my greatest fear was happening. Do you know what I mean? Like, I had let a little bit of daylight of hope in. And then it was like, it felt like the door just kept getting slammed in my face for the thing that I was most afraid of is that, like, there's no place for me here. And now you're trying. And we already told you that. And it just made me sad because it's like, I don't know. I had never quit before.

I just had never quit before. I had felt like doubt or like questioned or I'd called my mom and been like, what is this going to be? Did you ever call your sis in these moments? Absolutely. Is that the kind of stuff? Did you guys talk about this? Oh, absolutely. We had only just, when this happened, when I quit, it was September 2012.

Chi Chi and I were roommates in New York up until the November before, you know? So like we lived, my whole New York experience, minus one year is with Chi Chi, living together, right? So you were there through all of this. Oh, totally. Yeah. Totally. And what was your feeling on what she was going through? Well, I'd already seen love according to Luke.

So I was like, you're really good. And so I thought it was just like, you know, one part talent, one part opportunity. And so I was like, the talent is there. We just need to figure out, you know, the opportunity. And I could totally see some of those fears and some of those, you know, like, you know, like every know is like a little bit of like corroding of your, you know, your esteem or your, you know, your dream or your hope. And but I just felt like I knew it was going to happen. I don't know why.

Somewhere in my heart, I was like, I know this is going to. to happen. You know, you work super hard. You're incredibly talented. At some point, the stars will align. But I do remember, like, the days of, like, Uzo, like, doing $75 shows, waiting tables, horrible, monster milestone when you didn't have to wait tables anymore. And that was like, oh, my gosh, like, we're making a living. This is progress. This is great, you know? And then I just remember, we were too. God, I know you're going to tell. We were out to lunch, summer. This is back when I used to buy all the meals. Yeah. And she's paying for like, Chi Chi-Chi, by the way, she's feeling this because it's like, because you, this like is important to be said. Like, there are times

where it's like, we're living together and I can't make rent. And Chi-Chi, like, would cover me, like, you know what I mean? And not cover me just like, pay me back when you can, like, be like, don't worry about it. You know what I mean? Like, for, and really mean it. You feel like you're not like, anyway, go on. Yeah. No rush. But I just remember one time she was just like not getting a gig, like trying to figure it out. And we were sitting at this lunch table and she's like, pouring her heart out about how tough this is, it's so hard. And I just remember she literally looks at me dead in the face, tears in her eyes like, Chee-Chi, I just can't go back to waiting tables.

And I look at her and I go, you are saying this like, I just can't go back to slinging rock. I was like, is it the worst thing? Like slap me back into life. I think you'll make it. You will wait those tables. But how great is it, though, that you went from the girl who didn't think for, to now, to now having created a place for other girls to aspire to.

You know what I mean? have accomplished and are continuing to accomplish throughout your career. You know, it's pretty awesome. Thank you. I appreciate that. I think that it wouldn't just be myself, but I think we came along, I came along, and our show came along at a time when people were itching for themselves, you know what I mean? The thing that I was feeling, I think people were feeling like they wanted to, a want

for something else and the value of something else. not one singular thing to be valued. Yeah. What was that audition like, by the way? Did you read that? And you were like, okay, I could go kill this thing. This could be it. Well, I didn't read for that part.

I read for a track star on the show who was going away. And I was like, yo, this is so perfect. You know, I ran track too. I read track in college. It's great. Whatever. I went to one of my best friends, Lisa's house, because I remember had three auditions that day.

I put my hair, I'd gone to one. It was summer. And I had like a nice curl out. And I was like, Lise, I have three auditions today. The second one's for this thing, Orange is a New Black. I have to go home because it's hot

and I need to put my hair back in my Bantu knots to get a nice curl out again because I'm going to like sweat it out. And then I honestly got lazy. And I just left it in the knots. Which is how the knots wound up on the show. Because I was like, I don't want to take these out again. I was like, it's prison.

It's fine. Like that was like my genuine thing, like thought about it. It's fine. Like, I was like, I'm just going to leave it like this. And so I went in and I read from our casting director, Jen Euston, who had also come to see this play I'd been doing. And she was like, I read the part. I just remember, I genuinely don't like super remember.

I've since watched the tape, but I don't super remember the audition other than I remember the first time I read it. I yelled this, like, the way. fuck the like whatever the line said like super loud and she was like that was really good just don't do yell fuck the second time around and I was like okay and so like I did it the second time and I was like fuck and like I finished and she was like that was really good and you know like casting director say that all the time and I was like thank you and she's like no that was really good and I was like I won't be seeing you again I got it I've got it you know

whatever and that was like essentially the audition that was the that's it yeah I didn't I didn't when did you hear you at the part I heard I got the part September 15th 2012 at 543 I remember it I like the the I had quit because I'd had another audition for a part that I got that I went late to this I shouldn't say I was late I got the wrong directions and wanted to be being late for it. And I was, like, so devastated because I thought, like, I'd worked on this, you know, it was under five part. And I was like, but I feel I can say this, like, this kind of different way. And I left the audition. I cried the whole way because I really thought that was a part that I could get and do well. And I was devastated. That was the day I quit,

Oliver. And I got home, like literally three train transfers cried the entire time, was, was on the last train. Like, I was like, it's fine. I'm going to order sushi. I'm going to order wine. She's smiling like, this is a typical day. She's like, oh, God. Yeah, she's done this.

Not just this time. But he's like, this time I meant it. But I did call Chi Chi to be like, come over, you know, like come over. And I was going to tell her when she came over that I was quitting. And I was like, I'm going to call my agent. manager on Monday to be like, I'm out. And between that train ride when I had decided I was quitting, and before Chi Chi came over, I was watching Oprah's Masterclass. And Lauren Michaels was the episode. And I had been skipping it forever on my DVR and for whatever reason I wanted to watch

it. And he was talking about SNL and like starting that. And I guess it was like paned initially when it first came out. And so then like everybody wanted to pull the plug or whatever. And then he was like, let's give it one more chance. And I was like, and he says something like, I said if I could just keep the faith, and I kid you not, it's on TV, and across the screen, the words, keep the faith, scrolled pass. And it looked like a countrytime lemonade commercial is the only way I can describe it, like, like purpley reddish sky with like a big oak tree and a swing. And then like something on this side of the screen, like, curtain. and something that almost felt like it smelled good,

like a pie or something on the side of the screen. And you know how like if you watch Masterclass, it dissolves into the reenactment? It was like that part. And it said, keep the faith, dot, dot, dot. And I remember, this is why I remember it. I remember being like, oh, I really like that. When this is over, I'm going to rewind back to that,

take pause, take a picture, and tweet that. And I finished saying, tweet that. and my phone rang and that's when I got the call for Orange is the New Black and then I never went back to watching it Chi Chi came over like Wine and Sushi Party

quitting party becomes like wine and sushi party I'm going to be on TV or web series whatever it was you were literally like I don't know right you didn't even know what it really I mean you knew but you didn't know no I didn't know and then like

two weeks later I went back like I was like oh I never took that picture I'm going to take that picture now like I was like let me go and do it and I was like fast forwarding trying to find it I was like I must have been fastboarding too fast so I like went back to the beginning to like watch it like to catch it wasn't there no no true story no true yes I mean yes looking forward do you ever get into wanting to develop your own stories yes something I definitely have thought about doing am doing kind of in line with like the orange of it all being like new, I think also our experience, you know, growing up and feeling like we were outside of what we were outside of our house, like everybody else was experiencing, you know, as far as like being the only black family here. And not only when the only black family were the only Nigerian family here, you know, like all of this stuff. It became very important to me looking at the landscape. I say it all the time. It's like wanting to tell the stories of the missing, those things that are, those things, people and

stories that are missing, that I know can't be a singular story. I know it can't be that somebody just, one person alone had that experience and nobody else can, like, attach any emotional correspondence or connection to it, you know? So I want to be a part of that, both from an acting end, but also creation. You realize women, we have, have a really hard time getting really great roles written for us and you just have to do them yourself absolutely i mean i say all the time it's like if you were to look back on history it's like apparently betsy ross and like florence nightingale were the only women who ever did anything like it's like it's like no one else did anything ever maybe amelia airhart like you know what i mean

like that's the extent of our like participation in the world you know and it's like that erasure you know what I mean? You just start to think like, wow, how many stories if we were to tell the like story about the Declaration of Independence were in that story that we never heard? You know what I'm saying? Just that kind of thing. I just know there cannot be it. I just know that can't be the extent of it. Yeah. And I think there's like a huge misconception because I'm sure these like studio people or whoever else are thinking about like, you know, can I scale this. Well, there are enough people out there who can relate to it or be interested in it. And I think the misconception is that even if this is a story that, you know, there's a small pocket of people who that is their experience. We don't give everyone else enough credit that they may also see a bit of themselves in it, or at least can just appreciate it and be entertained by it and enjoy it. Tell us about the FX series. The FX series that I am working on is called Mrs. America. And it's about the women's movement of the 70s and all the different figures,

some of who have been forgotten over time, that actually played a role in that on both sides. It kind of, our show creator, Davy Waller, she says it really well. It's like it's the genesis of like some of the culture wars that we experience today, still today. And I thought I play Shirley Chisholm, representative Shirley Chisholm in it, who was the first woman and the first black person to ever run for president and was also the first black woman to ever serve in U.S. Congress. And I think that's pretty wild when you think about it. Because, you know, she, when she ran for Congress and won, you know, Martin Luther King had just been assassinated. When she ran for president, he was, his death in the Civil Rights Act, you know, the right to vote was still like, the shadow was still looming on that time.

And she was just such a force of nature and a woman who knew who she was, was not limited. again, reminds a lot of my mom drawn out of that where it was not limited by someone's idea of who she was. She knew who she was and those were the conditions under which she lived. And it's with Kate Blanchette, who's amazing. A beast. So she's amazing. She's amazing. And so many incredible women, Rose Byrne,

Tracy Ollman, Margot Martindale, you know, Elizabeth Banks and the list goes on and on. And it was a great second job to orange closing, because having come from a show with so many women and telling a story that was impactful, it was really awesome to go into another show with so many women that's impactful. And I really, I was excited about it because I think with time, we can, people can sort of drift out of the narrative and out of our history books. And certain figures can become apologized into such a way that you don't even know all of. of the inner workings, or all of the people who got things to a certain place, you know, and advanced our country forward. And I think what's really great and special about this is that it really gives every woman

their opportunity to be seen and shine, you know, which I'm not sure if we always get that. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. That's fantastic. Okay, one word to describe the other. Honest.

Thoughtful. One word to describe your younger selves, like 12 years old. Twelve years old, now I have to, like, think back. Quiet? Fair. Dramatic. Now you need to go first on this next one. Who calls the other more?

Oh, me. Uzo calls me more. For sure. Me. And at the most inappropriate times. I also call her in Like on repeat until I answer. Yeah. At work. I know you're at work. You know the problem today is like cell phones

with cell phones, you know when someone has hung up on. You know when they've just pushed ends. Yes. Until Texans. Are you setting me to voice? You got to let it ring through. I'm like, yes. I'm at reading. I would use to call G. Like not so much now because hashtag I've learned boundaries. But I used to like call Gigi at work. Like literally at her job.

And she would be like, hello? And I'd be like, Chi-Chi, hey. And she'd be like, hey, what's up? What's going on? Is everything okay? I'd be like, yeah. Okay, so I just wanted to figure out what time did we want to get together to go to the movies?

And she's like, I'm at work. Like, we can't do this. I know, but it's like important. She's like, do not call me. And I used to tell Chi-Chi, it'd be like, what do you do at work all day? And she'd be like telling me and she's like, what do you think I do at work all day? I'd be like, I don't know. I just had this vision of like a computer screen.

Like, you know, like the Matrix? Just like numbers. scrolling up or something. I don't know. Like lots of paper clips and like organizing, like ear nosing. Exactly. File cabinets. It's dropping.

Stop. I don't know. I don't know what you do. I was like, yeah. Anyway. Who's better at karaoke? That is going to be contentious. I agree.

And top. Go ahead. You say what you're saying. I don't know about, listen, she's a better singer for sure. But karaoke is a whole different ballgame. That's different. Absolutely. I would say Uzo is good at letting me be better at karaoke.

We do it a lot. I mean, I used to carry around. I used to carry around a laminated list of my go-to karaoke song because when I would be drunk in a bar, I would forget. I'm like, what are my good songs? And so we hosted like an audition on a Saturday. I was like, you've got to just, we got to sit. That we've got belted together.

And she's like, that song doesn't sound good on your voice. This song is much better. And so I made my list. This sounds fun. We need to do this. That's awesome. We have a duet song. that I was like...

What is it? Wilson Phillips, hold on. Before bridegmaid stole it from us. I was like, who did you tell that I did to? I said nobody did you. And we really feel like when we're like the night's gone on long enough that it's like we gotta really pull that out

and we'll start doing it like full on. Like we're going to be like working the crowd. It's ridiculous. You work the crowd. You have to. Wait, Ollie, we need to up our karaoke game. Most disagreed on topic. Timeliness.

Yes. You would think that something as fact-based in time would not have a spectrum. Yes. Like you were either on time or you weren't. You would think. But based, I think it's a rolling. Case by case. So you're always late.

Oh, late and lying. wait and like, there's one time Usa you still have a stop away for me on the train and I'd be like, all right, leave the house right now and I'll meet you, we'll make sure we get on the same train so we can go to the city and sit next to each other and I'd be like, I'm on the platform, she's like, I'm on the train, she's at home

and I'm like, I look for you in the cart, are you in the first, second cart from the front? I didn't see you. Maybe I'm on the next one, I guess I'm on the next one. She's at home. And not answering any of those texts because I was like, now that's a blatant line. Oh, my gosh.

I can't answer that one. But then I'd be like, I'll cop to it when I'm on the train. I'd be like, okay, now I'm on the train. She's like, I've been standing here for 45 minutes. I'm like, oh, God. Even today. Oh, my goodness. Today, this very morning.

So I have to usually give myself like buffer time when I know like, she really needs to be like, odd, you know, wants to be on time. So I'm like, she's like, what time are you coming to get me? I was like, I'm leaving the house at 10. And she was like, for real 10. That's usually like, for real 1020. I was like, Chi-Chi, you and I both know. Something that your sibling is really bad at.

I mean, being on time. That's good enough. There. What are you really bad? Honestly, I don't know. I'm an excellent driver. What are you really bad at? She's one of those.

Who's good at everything. Who's a, who's a, who's a. better dancer. Uzo. I mean, but I've got a lot of heart. I go full tilt. Yeah, she's got a lot of moves for sure. So who gives better advice?

Do you? I was going to say down the middle. I was like, that was going to be my sincerest. Because I feel like you, when we're like sitting down, first of all, I think she knows how to like calm very well and like look at something from like the outside end. I think it's, yeah. I was going to say down the line. I feel like we know each other well enough.

totally not even well enough that feels like so surface but like so well that it's like but i feel like i'm talking you off the ledge and you need to talk me onto it a little bit you know like oh i like this this this might feed into our last question we always ask okay um who's wittier i mean you're very good with like a sound bite and like quick but then like chichi also knows how chichi's you're very quick i was going to say chichi i was like she's like very quick she's like chich is very fast on her feet you know what i mean like she can like if you like are like surprising with her with an argument about like her jumpsuit or something she'll be like five months ago like she could like recall something very quickly and like defend y x y and z you know what i mean she's quick

or like even making a joke she's like very quick like she's very very quick who's best at keeping secrets me uh again down the line i mean here's a thing from each other neither exactly like the we exactly like it's like I will always say the vault like this is going in the vault yeah and when I'm like talking about the vault I mean like nobody

except for Chi Chi I mean the vault and the only one with the keys is Chi Chi because I need to bounce this off of somebody or I need to you know what I mean but she is not telling anybody either so it's like yeah that's such a good feeling yes I'm there's

there is nothing absolutely like there is absolutely zero things that Chi Chi does not know about me. Who is your first celebrity crush? Joey McIntyre. Oh, my God. Ty, Joey McIntyre.

He still... He still... He still so cute, too. Yeah, Joey's still killing it out there. Joey McIntyre, but also Brendan Adams. Oh, you did love him. From Polly. Who was your first crush?

Yeah, who was yours, Cheech? Mine was creepily, Antonio Van deris. Who was on my first. wall. And I only say creepily, he's super handsome, but because he was so much older. I do remember. He's like, like, he's not creepy, but it was creepy that I liked him so. Yeah, he's like old enough to be your dad. But I'm into it. I'm into it. Who's the better cook? Who's out? Who's the most adventurous? Ooh. That's tough. I feel like we're both. I think, I would say,

frame it like naturally I think maybe myself but I feel like Chi Chi has learned to be yes that's I've like pushed myself out of the comfort zone you were born outside the comfort zone I'm going for I'm gonna try it I'm gonna go yeah I'm gonna do it let's if you could quote one movie from start to finish what would it be myself Chi Chi and our brother junior we used to like same movies in the car like do remember we used to do like the lion king oh yeah like we'd be like be like like like nothing like just like start and do like the whole thing to the yeah all the way to the end I feel like I could at a time have done adventures and babysitting. Without question.

Oh, my God, I love that. Great. Without question. Oh, I could also probably do like Devil Wars Prada. Love. Good movie. Love. A fried green tomatoes.

Oh, yes, without a question. If you were casting someone as your sibling, who would it be? Asia Naomi King. Ooh. I'm like, how to get that? how to get away with murder okay yes yes that's who you're casting is me she's like a model yes you're welcome thank you yes you don't think well then you get Beyonce well you're like yes I do there we go I heard your answer but I didn't really um okay if you weren't

doing what you were doing what would you be doing maybe coaching or doing something in the sports or be like a sports journalist? Yes. Totally. I can totally see you in doing that too. I would be a lawyer. No. Well, also, I feel like that comes from like the first generation.

We're like the only acceptable professions. We're like lawyer, doctor. They've now just accepted bankers. Yes. Engineering. Engineers. Yes. For people who don't have connections with their siblings like you guys do,

what would you say to them? I mean, honestly, like, I think having a sibling is like one of the most important things because nobody sees your whole life from the very beginning all the way, hopefully to the end. You know what I mean? Your parents aren't going to be here forever. You know, your children didn't see you when you were young.

And I think that is just like such an interesting lens to watch someone else. And then in the specific case of, you know, Uzo and I, like, there is, this is like, I'm emotional. There's never been a relationship in my life that has meant more to me. There's no one I can tell like everything from things that I'm ashamed of, things that I'm proud of, a place where I can be boastful without feeling, you know, like that's a problem, someone I can go to for advice, someone that will literally comfort me when I'm in pain, someone who truly honestly, you know, wishes the absolute best for you, you know, because that's not even always true with all your friends sometimes or your colleagues or other, you know what I mean? It's very rare for someone who's like, I want absolutely the best this world has to offer for you. you know and I think that's really rare and I think that really comes in the package of you know particularly a sister

but you know your siblings for sure beautiful that's so pretty beautiful you should we should think about that what she just said yeah that doesn't apply to us no

that's okay you know we have our own path and that's fine you know all you want to ask our final are your normal final question so if you could take something from your sister for yourself that you could that you could implement in your life or have for your own you know what would it be and then on the second part is if you could take something from your sibling something that ails them a stressor or something you could alleviate in their lives what would that be

I know what I would take. Call me selfish. Go ahead. The one thing I would take from Chi-Chi. I mean, Chi-Chi is... She's the best thing that's ever happened to me in my life, like, honestly, like, echoing that. Like, the absolute, like, she will be for anybody, like, a hundred percent honest in such a loving way about... I don't even.

even know how to describe it. You can be a hundred percent like honest to every single person about if they ask you, it's like, do you like this dress? And I would be like, I'll say it, but I'll be like, either I'll say it tip too far and be like, no. Or so you know what I mean? But she'd say something like, what else you got in the closet? You know what I mean? Like she knows how to like just everybody, like, she knows how to bring love into a room. Like that would be in a way that's just like charged and and magnetic and exciting and people love people love chichi like i would love she can i'm like i can talk to anybody but like i feel like chichi can like settle and talk to anybody do you know what i mean like that's something i think like she's she's she's she's

she's we're grounded in different way and then i guess i would take more of her like grounded energy, you know, that I would love to have. What would I want to take away? Stress. I think that would be the thing I would take away. Like, not to stress. Not to sweat the small stuff like time. Yeah, not to stress.

I think I would take from you, like, Uzo has an enormous amount of mental fortitude. Like, she can mind muscle her way through anything. Like, if you put her at the bottom of Everest, she would make it to the top, you know what I mean? And down back again, probably with bodies on her back saving. You know what I mean? Like, she can just literally, she is so mentally strong and I don't even know how she does it, you know? Or she can just, you know, force her way into through things that is, it's unbelievable.

Like, my mind sometimes will get the best to me. You know what I mean? That just never happens to her. You know, I just, I don't even know how that happens. What would I take to alleviate for you? Not even that you're filled with this at all, but like I would say just like any kernel of doubt, you know? And I think it's very difficult in your industry because it's like you guys are

being filled with doubt like left and right. Constantly. You know what I mean? And I think like I said before, I think it's hard because that can, you know, it can be corrosive if you're not careful, you know? And I would just like that little niggle, you know, I would completely take away Because if you could see yourself the way I see you, you know, it would never be there. Well, I loved every second of this.

Thank you. Oh, my God. You guys are the most joyful people. Kate Hudson, Oliver Hudson, and Sim Sarnah. Supervising producer is Alison Bresnick. Editor is Josh Windish. Music by Mark Hudson, aka Uncle Mark. Hey, it's your favorite jersey girl, Gia Judeyce.

Welcome to Casual Chaos, where I share my story. This week, I'm sitting down with Vanderpump role star, Sheena Shea. I don't really talk to either of them, if I'm being honest. There will be an occasional text, one way or the other, from me to Ariana, maybe a happy birthday from Ariana to me. I think the last time I talked to Tom, it was like, congrats on America's Got Talent. combo you don't want to miss. Listen to casual chaos on the IHeart

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people, an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show, and we had a blast.

Take a listen. Sue and I were like riding the lime bikes the other day, and we're like, we're like, we're like, people ride bikes because it's fun. We got more incredible. guests like Megan in store, plus news of the day and more. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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