Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast - Casting Suits with Bonnie Zane

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

This week, Patrick and Sarah talk with Suits Casting Director Bonnie Zane... and she brought a treat - their original auditions! Sarah and Patrick watch their auditions for the first time in-studio, and share their reactions in real-time. They discuss Bonnie's legendary career, what casting Suits was like, the stories behind finding Louis Litt, Rachel Zane, and of course Mike and Donna. Plus, she shares some details from working on the upcoming Suits: LA.  Email us a voice memo of your questions about Suits at [e-mail]. We may use it on the show!Follow us on Instagram & TikTok - @suitssidebarGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/sidebar

I was about to start pressing these buttons like I knew what they did. Hold on, let me get my levels. Hi, I'm Patrick Adams. You may know me as Mike Ross from the show Suits. And I'm Sarah Rafferty, and you may know me as Donna Paulson on Suits. And this is Sidebar, a Suits rewatch podcast, or actually a Suits watch podcast, because Sarah and I have never actually watched the show. But we are taking a break this week from watching a new episode to do something really, really, really especially special.

So special. Patrick, can you please do the honors? Of course I can today. We are honored to be talking with a casting powerhouse, Bonnie Zane. With a career spanning more than three decades, Bonnie is one of the most respected casting directors in the business, known for her exceptional ability

to bring together some iconic television ensembles. Bonnie's work has left a lasting impact across genres, that word, genres. Genres. Genres. She helped shape the cast of, Are You Ready For It? I'm Ready. Mad About You, News Radio, Sports Night, Ed, and then in cahoots with her longtime partner,

Gail Pillsbury, she did a show, Close to My Heart, Pretty Little Liars, and then of course, she was the casting director for this show that we're here to talk about, Suits. Bonnie was the person who saw the potential in our original cast and brought together a group of actors who had the chemistry, depth, and connection that helped carry Suits

through nine memorable seasons and 134 episodes. She also presided over the spinoff Pearson and the upcoming Suits LA. Now we have some fast facts from our firm's best researcher, Kristin. How many Primetime Emmy Awards do you think Bonnie's been nominated for? I think Bonnie has been nominated for two primetime Emmy Awards.

That's because it's right in front of you and it's written down. She won two Ardeos Awards. Do you know what the Ardeos Awards are? I think she's won all the awards. How many Ardeos Awards have you won? Bonnie has won every award that I can give her. Well, as far as the Ardeos Awards go, she's won two, she's had ten nominations, and they are the holy grail of casting awards from the Casting Society of America.

Rachel Zane is named after Bonnie Zane, and Bonnie's sister Deborah is also a phenomenal casting director here in town. So today we are thrilled to dive into her journey, explore the art and intuition behind the casting process, and thank her endlessly for giving us the jobs that have changed our lives forever. Bonnie Zane, welcome to Sidebar. Yay. Hi, Bonnie.

Oh my god. We left out the part where she's one of our dearest, dearest friends. And a fan apparently. She said that she's been listening to the podcast. That it's been... Well, she's our cheerleader. We get texts cheerleading us. Yes. I love this podcast. Thank you, Bonnie. I have... It's my little escape every morning on the way to work, on the way home.

And on your way to work means on your way to work on a new Suits show. So that's got to be interesting, which we are going to get into. Thank you so much. You have been the guests that we have been talking about bringing on since day one after Erin. So thank you so much for being here. That was a good conversation. When I listen, I talk to the radio in my car. I'm like, no, you have to get,

you have to tell them this too. Little tidbits. Oh my gosh. Do you ever swear at us? Do you ever? Do we get it wrong? How many are we getting wrong? How much stuff are we getting wrong?

We're getting it right? It's not wrong. It's just omissions that I want to add in. Like you'll mention an actor and I'm like, well, I need to tell you this. I did like how many times Aaron was bleeped. I think he holds the record so far. We, um, we have talked already. We haven't even had this conversation, but we know and want you to be such

an important part of this podcast. So from here on out, anytime you have the thought of an upcoming episode where you have some story you want to tell, you you're gonna drop it in a voice memo. Yes, we were wondering if we could have a Bonnie segment. A Bonnie moment. Tell us about the guest stars in this episode. That are coming up, and the stories of that, and then how you thought of them,

and all those things that you told me that one time when we were sitting in the car for hours, when I wouldn't let you out of the car when I was driving you home, and you were regaling me with amazing stories. Oh, that's right. I forgot my notebook. Oh. It's all in here. It's all in there.

It's all in here. Yes, whenever you have a casting question, I am on the red phone. Is it rare? We want to go back and talk about like how you got into it and what casting means to you and why, but like, is it rare to be on the entirety of a show the way you were on Suits for 134 episodes? Or is that pretty common that a casting director would stick it out for the whole time? It's pretty common, but there are circumstances in which it wouldn't happen. But I love the beginning to end runs because you get to watch the evolution of every single thing.

I mean, the actors, the stories, you all become this big old family. And you know, like, yeah, and you know what's happened in episodes past, so you know what we've already tried, maybe there's a new color. I mean, it seems like you and Erin were... Yeah, mind melding in those kinds of ways.

We really vary in sync with taste. Okay, so let's walk it back a little bit, because Bonnie, I am really curious. I have never really asked you this. How did you become a casting director? Can you kind of define, first of all, exactly what a casting director is, just in case people don't know what we're talking about?

And then what was your journey? I had a very circuitous route. A casting director, for television purposes, is putting anyone who speaks on screen onto the show. So it's a process from beginning to end, in our case from the pilot to the finale, every speaking role between me and Tina, my colleague in Toronto, the two of us work together for the entire run of the series. And between the two of us, we put everyone on the show. I wonder, gosh, I wonder how many people that is actually if you did the math on that.

But math is hard, so we'll move on. Can I go back? So how did you become a casting director? Okay. So I moved out here directly out of college and I went to college with a film and radio major. Oh, wow. TV, radio and thought I I was gonna be a writer. I moved out here cold and struggled and worked in a gym

and waited tables and did appearances on game shows to make extra cash. Oh yeah. Oh yes. Did you win any? I did. There was one called Win, Lose, or Draw, which was Pictionary.

Yeah. Nice. So you're in town, you're just trying to figure it out. I got my sister, she fell into casting and I used to always sit down with her and say, what are you doing? And I would make my own lists for her. And she says, you have a knack for this.

So when I was out of work, she heard of a position opening at Lieberman Hirschfeld, which was back then a huge casting office with Meg Lieberman and Mark Hirschfeld, my forever mentors. And she called them and Mark Hirschfeld, my forever mentors. She called them and she says, look, my sister has no experience, but you need someone to answer the phone for a few weeks.

They hired me for three weeks and it turned in three years. When I left there, Mark graciously gave me news radio to leave with. I had been on news radio from the pilot and he gifted me the show. Wow. So it was a very special thing. And then one week later, I got a call from Larry Charles who said, Mark Hirschfeld just recommended you for a position on Mad About You.

So within a month of me being an independent casting director, I had Mad About You and news radio. And for anyone who's young and doesn't know, these shows are iconic. A month of me being an independent casting director, I had Mad About You and News Radio. And for anyone who's young and doesn't know, these shows are iconic. Must See TV, amazing. And the ensembles on these shows are the whole thing. I mean, News Radio, give me a break, wow.

Incredible. And can I just ask what your sister saw that you described as your knack? What was the knack that your sister zeroed in on? Because she knew something very special. The way she puts it is you could turn your entire lifetime of watching television into a career. What do you love about what you do?

I mean, I know there's so many things. There's so many things. And we'll get into them, but like what keeps you excited? I love actors as- As we feel. As everyone knows? I love actors as- As we feel. As everyone knows, I love actors. I love working with actors. I love, that's why I miss the most during remote times

was not being in the room and working in that tactile thing. Right. I love actors. I love the evolution from page to screen. It's so much fun. I've always tested myself from the beginning when I read a script, if I got a pilot, for instance,

and they say, you're gonna cast this pilot, I always test myself with the first person I think of if they're gonna get the role or not. Interesting. And- How often does it pan out? What's your batting average? I don't have a great batting average,

but the big ones are the big ones. Like I remember Sports Night was a big one for me and that was, I had to be kind of sculpted in a way to make it work. Now Sports Night is Aaron Sorkin. It was Aaron Sorkin's first television show. Which again, another person known for these epic ensembles, and that's his first TV show, so that must have been an amazing experience.

It was a really interesting experience, yeah. Right. And he likes to read with the actors so they could keep up the Sorkin pace. Ooh, wow. And you like to read with the actors. So Patrick, I haven't told you this, but I have so many memories of like,

clippity clopping in my shoes up to my heels or whatever I was wearing up to your bungalow on Larchmont. And thank you by the way for continuing to call me in year after year, time after time. And I always loved coming to audition for you because you read with me. Now, is that something that you try to always do?

Yes. And do you feel something when you're reading with an actor that helps you do the casting process? Oh, absolutely. Because you want them to have, to me, you know, let's talk suits. I know the tone, I know the pacing, I know Aaron's words, which is not normal. And I'm able to kind of help them along with that. And I literally, Aaron and I have jokes.

He's like, I wish they would say it like you, but. Perfect. But you know it, you've been doing it over and over again. And I could, you know, off screen, I have no problem playing Lewis Litt or Mike Ross because. Oh, I'd love to see you Lewis Litt. There's no character I would love to see more. We'll get there.

We'll get there. It seems like your superpower of which you have many, but one of them is that the shows you cast sort of are these what might be called dramedies where hour long sometimes you've done half hour obviously, but these shows that are also longer but also aren't afraid to be funny. Like there's a comedy thing that you seem to have dialed into, but it doesn't have to be just pure comedy, pure laughs. Like you managed to do both.

Can you talk a bit about that and how you feel like you kind of found a home in that world? Well, my home for a long time was in sitcoms. I mean, nine years on the Drew Carey show. Right, wow. And Mad About You and News Radio and tons and tons with the wonderful Bruce Helford who created Drew Carey show. Right. Wow. And Mad About You and News Radio and tons and tons with the wonderful Bruce Helfer who created Drew Carey, did a lot of shows with him. And then this mesh of dramedy started. And my first dramedy was probably Ed, which was a really fun casting

process and really crazy casting process. So I actually remember vividly remember Tom Kavanaugh's screen test for that at CBS. It was a CBS show that they did not pick up and then NBC picked it up. Oh wow. But we were in that little dark room at CBS and that test and we did a very dramatic scene. I have one of my memories was it was a breakup scene and Tom said to me before the scene because I'm just sitting in the chair, I'm not acting with you, I'm just sitting there. He said, when she starts to cry, just put your head down and I'll take that as the cue

that she's crying because then he tries to console her And we're doing the scene and we're really into it and I just start sobbing And that was and we walked out of there afterwards and he would like just holding each other going. Yeah, that's so great Well, I can't say from our side to have a companion like you just said sarah to have somebody We've both been in casting offices before where it's just like a wall, you know, for people who don't know. We go into these rooms, we have these pages we've prepared. You sometimes have met the person and have a relationship, but especially early in your career, you don't,

and you read these scenes sometimes that are very emotional or you need to be funny, there needs to be a back and forth, there needs to be a rhythm, and you find yourself either reading with a casting assistant or if you're lucky, a casting director. But even some of the big casting directors, you're just getting nothing. You're getting the driest read.

And to go into a room and have someone who's like showing up for you and interested and excited and wants to like give back, it makes a world of difference. And I would just share that like, just as a sidebar. Hey, I would like to share a sidebar. Yeah, go ahead and say a sidebar. Hey, I would like to share a sidebar. Yeah, guess I'm When right when I got out of school

What school did you go to again? Wait, yeah, I don't know if you know this Bonnie All I said was school. Is it in New Haven? See I've never said I went to school. What school was it again? I forgot I went to Hamilton College in upstate New York and And then? And then another school. And then after that was I lived in New York. Yeah. OK, go on. And a very educational experience for me. It was Yale. I just want the listener to show that there it is.

Guys, you're on my side, right? Listener, you're on my side. There it is. I said school and then they jumped on me. Are they buying ad time on our podcast? Do people not talk about going to school? Yeah, let's get that figured out. Um... We're cutting all this, right? We're cutting all this.

Um, what were you gonna say? Sidebar. All I was gonna say was probably the most educational experience for me after I got out of school was that I was hired by the Roundabout Theatre Company in New York as a reader. So I was the reader for the entire casting process for Cabaret on Broadway with Sam Mendes. And as, when we were months into it, he had me sit next to him at the table,

so that he could be right in the eye line of the actors. And every time they left, he would say, how did that feel for you? To me, to like the, the gun for hire. And we would talk about it. And he, he really was looking for that, to me, to like the gun for hire. And we would talk about it and he really was looking for that visceral response and trying to get as close to it as he could without being the one. I think it would have been very intimidating to read with Sam Mendes if you were auditioning for that.

But, and that walking into your office, I always knew when I was leaving that I was going to come out with a little gift of like having been an actor and having been connected and having experienced something, whether or not I was gonna get the thing or not. Well, if you look at it like your time in that room is the one time you definitely have the part. Oh, I love that. The part is yours.

Yeah. Okay, so we should get into suits. We should really get into the process of suits. What was what was Patrick's? How good am I? How good am I? Let's just talk about me. No, I want to. Let's talk about how it started with Suits. You had that meeting. You had that lunch with them.

How do you immediately get to know the energy of an Aaron Korsh? Like, it seems like a big part of your job is like starting to get some Patiko and get on the same page as the showrunner. How do you do that? How quickly did it happen with Aaron in the process? As soon as you sat down, did you already start Rolodexing the names of people you wanted to bring in? Yeah, right away. And I think you know this right away, the first person that Gail Pillsbury

said for Mike Ross was Patrick Jay. No way! I was the first name. I didn't know that actually. I think I forgot. Gail and I had this, that was her first name and the first name for Pretty Little Liars was me telling her try-in. Wow.

Amazing! You guys are geniuses. We are. And we owe you a lot. I feel like every year we should be sending you a lot more than we are. It takes some time to get into the groove with a new producer. Oftentimes, casting directors work with the same showrunners. So it's like a shorthand when you jump right in. But you're learning. And it was a lot to learn. It was a lot of parts. We started with Mike and Harvey right away. It was a lot to learn. It was a lot of parts. We started with Mike and Harvey right away and

It was trial and error trial and we would just get through we did the Mike scenes was that I'm gonna knock me into a different life. Yep, and That's the scene. I remember actually don't remember the I think we did we do that We did the Rachel Zane did the Rachel Zane's I love you scene. Yeah, I love you scene Yeah, was that it you think that was those I think those were the two scenes now Harvey we do the, we did the Rachel Zane scene. You did the Rachel Zane scene. The I love you scene. The I love you scene. Yeah. Was that it? You think it was the two scenes? I think those were the two scenes. Now Harvey, we did the last minute bad faith.

Right. But what I'm curious about is the Harvey versus Mike, right at the time, I'm fairly unknown. I had done some stuff. I think I'd just been fired as we talked about on this podcast from another show. So it's not like my career is a shooting star, but you had the ability to think of me for that role.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Was the Harvey a different approach? Was it like, you know, this guy has to be the coolest guy in any room he's in. I imagine that's not the easiest role to cast. Is that, are you going in straight to offers? Was Aaron explicit that he needed to audition with people? What was that process like?

It's a dual process. So you do go, you have your, your list. Your offers only. Your laundry list you make and that gets divided into who will read, who's offer only, who is not available. But Aaron, like, like most producers wants to hear the words. And so we're still bringing gentlemen into the room every day and reading them and going through it.

And it's a lot to wrap your mouths around. And then it's also looking at the pairing and looking at what's gonna make the right Batman and Robin. Well, that's what I'm interested about finding the pairing because we've talked about before, we never read together. Gabriel and I never met before we were both cast

in this process, which is pretty remarkable and a testament to you and Erin doing, you know, knowing that there was something that would happen there without actually having seen it. Can you talk a little bit about why Gabriel and I maybe would never have gotten up in front of people? Well, you were cast first of the entire ensemble. So you were the first piece of casting.

And from what I remember, we couldn't get you and Gabriel in the same room for... I want to say it might have been scheduling. Because I refused to be with him. Because you said, absolutely not. Yeah, I will not read with anybody at that time. Sorry, no. It was just a scheduling thing and he's...

I seem to remember it was and I remember everyone's read distinctly. Right. I remember every single person's read. How did you know though? How do you know that me and Gabriel are going to have it? Or is it just we just hope for the right people and hope for the best? Hope for magic. Right.

Yeah. Did it make or take much convinced? This is this might get weird. As these questions, did it take much? Again, I was not I was not a name or face that anybody could like sell a show on. Was that a tough process at all? Or was it pretty clear from the beginning? Because I know how I felt going in having been fired from this job. I just sort of felt like I had nothing to lose.

I felt very like it just made sense to me and I remember feeling more confident than I normally would because I'd been through the wringer. Do you remember a sense of like no this is clearly the guy and like we just kind of kept doing it over and over. It wasn't a struggle. It wasn't a struggle. And I do think the blessing of being on USA Network at that time during the Blue Sky Days was they didn't have that mandate. You didn't need to be a huge star to carry a show. And I also want to say show of hands who's been fired from a job.

See? Let's do it. We got all the hands in the booth. So, yeah, of course you... That was the best thing that ever happened to me in a way, because it really prepared me for this process, which was to come in and just be like, what's the worst that can happen? I just had it happen. So let's go. Which I think I needed for Mike.

Is it true that thing that we hear, that you those first minutes of walking into a room back in the day when we walked into rooms, like that you kind of know quickly? Like somebody comes in with a special sauce? I think a stark quality, the X factor is there and it's that undescribable component. We call it Torres.

We call it Gina Torriz. Torriz. We won't even, if you want me to talk about Gina, you got to give me another hour on the show. The love of my life. I think there's that, that you feel it. But you know, that is mostly, it's a gut thing. It is a gut thing. But then there's people that will surprise you. You don't see it coming. Rick Hoffman, you did not see that performance coming. Let's talk about that. I really want to ask about Rick's audition.

If I could be a fly on the wall, I would like, if I can get you drunk, can I see Rick's audition? Can you show it to me one day? But was it amazing? I mean, how incredible was it? How much did it surprise you? I knew Rick as an actor.

For Lewis Litt, we tried every type of actor. The guys he tested against for that role, there's no similarity besides the fact that they were all wonderful actors. But he absolutely brought Lewis Litt into the room. The only other time that has happened to me was Stephen Root in News Radio, where he literally created Jimmy James in his audition to the point where, I remember I was a casting assistant and I think I might have been behind a big old camera and I went like this.

Because it was otherworldly. and I think I might've been behind a big old camera, and I went like this. Cause it was otherworldly. It was like, there's nothing you ever had seen before in that part. Same sides, same scenes. And so Rick, when he sat down, and I remember, like I remember where we were sitting in the room we were in over at Tribeca on the West side. And I just remember that moment I'm going, and I'm sitting and the room we were in over at Tribeca on the west side and I

Just remember that moment. I'm going and I'm sitting and the cameras behind me, but I remember going. Oh my god This is it was crazy. And the one and were you alone Aaron's not there yet. Yeah, we're there We're all there. We all were there. Did everybody have the same reaction? Well, Aaron and I have a joke to this day because the line, it was the firing scene. Where he's firing somebody in front of Mike, just to scare Mike. Yes. Great scene. And the last line of that scene is, welcome to Pearson Hardman. But Rick, like many of the guys, delivered it, welcome to Pearson Hardman.

Like your name was Hardman. And so Aaron and I, to this day, will always randomly say lines from the pilot, and that's one of the two we say the most, is, welcome to Pearson, Hardman. And the other is, that is last minute, bad faith bullshit, which is my favorite line. That's so good. So, yeah, I mean, Rick,

we have a love fest for Rick in here, just because every episode we're learning, like, just how, we knew how brilliant it was, we had front row seats, but just watching it in context of the show but you're right it's something totally different that's when you're just looking for a quality that you can't even quite name until you see it. Yeah right and he just brought it and it was it was undeniable and it's funny because I think back to all these auditions, like I said, I do remember them all. And that to me, I just, and then I went back with the rest of the world a couple of summers ago

and watched the whole series on Netflix. And I go, oh my God, these are really good actors. That's how we're feeling about the whole show. About the whole show. And my daughter watched it for the first time and she had, you know, she grew up like your kids, that she grew up as a little one. And then she sat down and watched it as a series.

And it was just such an interesting thing to watch her, you know, having visited the set and knowing you people as her friends. And then suddenly she's watching this. So she had a lot to say. We were on the plane with Lily after season two. We were coming home and Iris was still like a little breastfeeding baby.

And I was so tired and you held Iris the entire time going home from Toronto to Los Angeles and Lily wasn't having it. Oh, is she fat? She's like, I jokingly said, oh my God, I'm going to keep this baby. She says, Mom, you can't do that. It's against the law.

And you were up front with Charlie. Oh my God, we were all together. I remember this flight. I also really forgot. That was my baby. He didn't like anything. Charlie was an angry boy. So when people are in the testing process, which is so you've done the first audition, you've done the callbacks, and then they're testing,

so it's down to three to five people. Do you get more nervous, just like the actors get more nervous when that's happening for you? What's the experience like for you? Oh, my God, I want everyone to do so well. I mean, we're a team at this point. We've been doing this for so long. Now, look, there are times when tests don't work,

and it's just you're back to the drawing board. We tested probably a dozen women for Rachel, at least, if not more. Wow. And I kept going back to the drawing board before we got to our final round with Megan and there is, no one wants that. It's not like that. Like leaving the room at USA was not ha ha ha. She had to go back to the drawing board. It was never that. It was okay. What can we all do now? What are we missing? And it was immediately Steven and Radalima sitting down with me going,

who have we missed? What have we missed? Immediately Kevin Bray jumping in with, Kevin Bray jumping in with, you know, literally saying, you need, we need to try this Meghan Markle, who I was familiar with, but not as familiar with as Kevin was. And Kevin was the one who says, let's do it. How did Kevin know her? Kevin had met her on something in passing. I had worked with her too.

So when I showed up to that day, I didn't know who I was reading with. And part of, I think why the chemistry was great is we knew each other. There was a familiarity. Your chemistry was great with everyone. You really did have, in the last round of women, because I actually reviewed all that tapes I went to do. You have all of this. I have all of this.

Oh my God. And it was, and it was all different. You know, Christina, who then went on to be the therapist. Oh, right. Most people might not know that. Oh, yes. She tested for Rachel. She tested for Rachel and it was a great, it was a great read. Um.

And Amanda Scholl said she auditioned for Rachel. Amanda auditioned for a few parts. Amazing. Yeah. That's a good example of someone just continuously doing the work and you know, it's going to fit somewhere and you just have to wait and find the right part. What about like a Rachel Harris? What did she... That was Aaron. Aaron wanted Rachel for Sheila. He just said this part is for Rachel. So cool. And it was great. Yeah, it was

he, I think he, like Dulé as well. I mean he had a part in mind. Uh, Katie Heigl. These were people that didn't go through the process. And being that Rachel and Jessica were the last roles to be cast, we also were now creating the palette. Yeah. So that was part of the discussion as well, like what pieces of the puzzle are going to make this feel more complete. And yeah, all the women at that point that you had been reading with, the performances are so wonderful and elevated. All would be great.

Few of them, Jenny Mullen got cast as another character. Right. We just saw her. Oh my God. Yeah. I totally forgot that she auditioned for Rachel. Yeah. Wow. Great.

She never lets me forget it. That's so funny. I do think it's important to say, again, I do this all the time. If there are young actors listening, that room, when you walk out, it's usually very supportive. And if you don't get the part, much of the time is that you did a great job, but you're saying it didn't work in the palette.

And that's what I experienced when I was a reader, and I was a reader for many other things. While I was in New York, it's one of the ways that I, like, I waited tables and was a reader. And it was really, really healthy thing to do because I learned that I could see an unbelievable performance and that there was no way that person was getting that part,

only because they weren't right. They weren't exactly right. I was having this conversation this morning because we, on the new suits, we're adding a bad guy prosecutor and this woman who read was so great and we all loved her and I was talking to Aaron about it and he said, oh no, she's great. She's explained to me why she wasn't right for this role and I actually got to say to her, her reps, I said, look, you know how much I love her and value her,

but this is not her part. It's nothing has to do with performance. So when you pass the notes on to her, she should know she gave the best read. It has nothing to do with that. Does it pain you when people, because let's say three people go in to test and only one obviously walks out.

I think that leaves two that don't get the part. Does it pain you? Does it pain you that they don't get the part. Does it pain you? Does it pain you that they didn't get it? Like, what do you do? I think about what I owe them for their next role. Oh! Hmm. That's lovely.

How many people auditioned for each role, roughly, would you say? How many people did you see? For the pilot? Yes, and for the series regular roles. How many people are you reading? Around 300. Per role? Yeah. Even for Donna?

Uh-huh. Did you see people in person for Donna? I did start, cause I remember like Ray Sehorn auditioned. I remember this day, I had like one day of Donna's and then it was, we got to make this out of New York. It has to be a local hire. So they just kind of shut me down. And then it was, it had to be New York. So the tapes went there.

I filtered them because I was uploading them and curating them on our website that we view them. So I did get to see yours. I think this would be a good place to, I think you've brought something for us. Bonnie has brought with her, dear listener, our auditions. Sarah, I don't know if you're prepared for this

mentally or emotionally. I've never seen it. She texted it to us earlier this week. We both did not watch it, which is funny. We both independently were like, thanks so much and did not watch it. And then we thought this might be while deeply uncomfortable, cathartic, cool thing to do together. So do you want to start with your do you want to start with mine?

You show me yours. What would you like to do? I'll show you mine. Let's watch yours first. And then we'll see if we have time for mine. Oh my God, look at my hair. Oh my God, look at my face. What are you looking for? I've got to work with this guy a long time. I've got to understand him, relate to him, and trust him, which means I'm looking for another me. Got it. Witty, charming, ballsy.

Thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. That's why I love you. So what gives you the nerve to think that we're gonna let the whitest guy I've ever seen interview for our firm? I have an appointment. Rick Sorkin? Mr. Sorkin, you're five minutes late.

Do you have a reason I should give you an interview? I don't care if you give me an interview or not. I'm dissing the cops. Oh God, I need to be, oh. Also, I didn't get a chance to marry me. Yeah, I took care of that too. We've been married for the last seven years. Ooh, what does that mean?

Ooh, what she had in the breath. What does that mean? She added the breath. What does that mean? To give some feelings. What a stunner, first of all. I mean, still stunner, but gosh. Baby. Yes, baby. I want a pure initial emotional. Just give it to us.

What are you thinking? What are you feeling? Give us the raw. I'm in freeze. I'm in freeze. I'm in freeze. Okay, oh gosh, my heart hurts a little bit. God, I was young once. This is like the only time I'm gonna go,

yeah, I'd give that girl that part. Nice. Yes, 100%. I'm glad that's your reaction, because that's how I'm feeling. I was like, is that, be honest, was that how you guys felt? You saw that tape, obviously. But I didn't get to see everybody else's. I didn't see. I was like, is that, be honest, was that how you guys felt? You saw that tape, obviously.

But I didn't get to see everybody else's. I didn't see what I was up against. We're gonna, well, surprise, we're gonna watch all 300 tapes. No. But I've never said that. Bonnie knows I never say that. I know.

I know. I loved the non-verbal. Why were you sighing? That's great. So she left, this is good, left an impression like at the end there was like, oh, I want more. You just created like a whole back story and front story. Yeah.

Yeah. And there wasn't a lot to do for Donna in that audition because there wasn't a lot in the pilot for Donna. There wasn't a lot in the first season. And you took it right. And you took that and the mistake that actors make is, okay, I only have five pages. I only have three pages. I got to make a meal.

And you just kind of laid it out there for what it was simple. Great. And that's, and that's probably what sparked the initial interest. It's like, oh, it is, you know, it triggers in me actually that I'd had so many conversations with Santu about quitting, right? Oh yeah.

And that this was the thing that I was like, yeah, I'll just go, I'll fly myself to New York. I'll get the Airbnb. Let me give it a shot. It's not working the usual way with the testing, the run it up the flag pole, the pilots aren't getting picked up, you know, the thing isn't happening. So let's try it this way.

I'm glad you tried it. I'm glad you tried it. Thank you for trying it this way. There's many ways to, you know, I don't want to say skin a cat, but you know. You skin cats. That's a whole other podcast. And also that moment at the end,

I was curious just seeing it like, oh, and now I realized, Patrick moment at the end, I was curious just seeing it, like, oh, and now I realize, Patrick, it's funny, we talked about this just a couple of weeks ago, that I was like, I really wanted to make sure that Donna wasn't somebody that was pining for Harvey, but that was a choice that I only made after I got the part. You felt the pine here, the encouragement to pine.

That was a like, mm. But I think actually one of those things that in an audition, it's useful, because it's indicating there is yeah. That was a like. But I think like actually one of those things that in an audition it's useful. Cause it is, it's indicating there is more story here to tell, then you get into the nuance of like, well, now we have a whole show, I don't want to do it right off the bat. You know what I mean?

Like it's useful here. It's a choice. It's make a choice. Something to say like, huh, there's something more to this character. Yeah, totally. I would have cast you. You got the part. I would cast you.

You did cast me Bonnie. Anyway moving on we don't need to watch anything else. We're run out of time. Thank you so much. Oh boy. Oh look at your suit. I bought this suit just for this audition. I still have it. Wow you invested in it. It does not fit. Not even close. But I remember I went and spent like a good amount of money on a suit. I was like and I did not have money to spend but I was like I need an actual real life grown-up suit. All right well I guess I gotta go to the bathroom though. You guys, I'll let you guys go. What if I told you that I consume knowledge like no one you've ever met and I've actually passed the bar okay hot shot part of

that laptop I'll show you what a Harvard attorney can do that is my database of every legal issue in existence pick one stock option back although back dating options is legal violations arise related to the disclosures under both sasb123 are an Revenue Code Section 409A. You forgot about the Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 02. Statute Limitations render Sarbanes-Oxley moot post 2007. Not if you can find actions to cover up the violation as established in the Sixth Circuit May 2008.

That's impressive. But you're at a computer. I'm playing hard. If you want to beat me, you're going to have to do it at something else. I'm sorry. You want this job? When I was in college, it was my dream to be a lawyer. My grandmother needed some money, and Trevor convinced me to memorize this math test and sell it.

Turns out that we sold it to the dean's daughter. I lost my scholarship, got tossed out of school. I got knocked into a different life. I've been wishing for a way back ever since. I'm glad to give you a shot. What if I decide to go another way? I'd say that's fine. Sometimes I like to hang out with people who aren't that bright too. Just to see how they're on the halfway. Right into it. Oh god. Hi! Mike Ross, we've been expecting you.

I'm Rachel Lane, paralegal. I'll be giving you your orientation. Wow, you're pretty. You've hit on me. You can get it out of the way that I'm uninterested. No, no, no, I wasn't hitting on you. I have this problem that I can't... Please, I've done dozens of these and without fail, whatever new hot shot it is, thanks because I'm just a paralegal. I'd be blown away by this dazzling degree. Take notes because I'm not going to repeat myself. I love you.

God, they just one-on-red into the other. Oh, we're going into it. Oh, the company is fighting the subpoena. Good. Good? Did you think they wouldn't fight back? Well, I... Now that you mention it. My fault, I keep forgetting that you don't actually know anything. The idea is that you make a move, they make a move, and then back and forth until one of you wins. And what if one of them wins the motion and the case gets distranged? Well then you're not as good as you think you are. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm, yeah, sort of speechless.

I'm very proud of that little, I am so nervous. And you said you don't see it and I can see that you don't see it. I know how nervous I am. Well you're't see it and I don't, and I can see that you don't see it. I know how nervous I am. What, you're nervous watching it to your? But I know I'm in that room and I know I'm like, that part of the gig is looking not nervous when you are actually super terrified. And that's fun to watch.

That's fun to watch how you're pretty good at bearing. But also it's fueling your auditions, fueling the performance, you use it. Yes, I'm using it rather than trying to deny it. I'm like embracing that he would be nervous too, but he's also determined to get this job. And I've talked about it before, I can see that thing that I'm doing where I'm like,

I can just ask this room full of people for this job, the same way that Mike's asking Harvey for the job. Yeah, it's wild. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Would you cast him? I would cast him. He was cast immediately after that.

Was it? What happened? I walked out of that room. What happens? Okay, we're done. Done? Yeah. Oh God, that's great. Why doesn't that happen every day? Yeah.

Yeah. What's the notebook you keep referring to? Well, for each show I do, I keep a binder so that has all of the audition sheets. So who came in and my notes. I went back to my Ed audition book randomly with my showrunner one day decades later and we were looking at the people who auditioned for the role of Ed.

And it was astounding. Steve Carell. I mean, when we closed our office, I had to get rid of so much stuff. And I knew I had to save certain ones and I had to save my suits pilot because there was so much meat on that bone. Should we talk a little bit about the guest cast? Yeah, I think that would be a great time. That's enough about us. Let's talk about them. Are there some standouts, whether they be from the first,

and this is not a standout, like, we have so many great actors we could spend, you know, forever talking about all of them, but are there any standouts either from the first season or from the show entirely where you're just like, kind of just magic happened? I mean, I'm thinking Harold right off the bat. He was not even, we had a little clip from him last week where he talks about how he got cast.

And I mean, that was just, it just was accident after accident after. Yeah, he was up in Canada. Yeah. So, oh God, there's so many. I love all the Brits. That was so much fun. Yeah, that was a great season. Oh, I wish I had my notebook. The. That was so much fun. Yeah, that was a great season.

Oh, I wish I had my notebook. The funny one was Adam Godley. Uh-huh. Because I love Adam. I mean, I adore Adam as a person, as an actor. Adam Godley. Let's stop for anyone listening. Adam Godley played... Rick's nemesis. Oh, do we know what his name was? Nigel.

Nigel. Just want to make sure for Suits fans out there. Yeah, Louis's nemesis and that was season four. That was our British season, it was four, right? So Adam I knew and I, you know, he's been in everything, all these movies and stuff and he's so interesting. Just everything about him is so interesting and I really loved the idea of him for Nigel. It was not what they were thinking of. And one person I was, you know, we're bringing a lot of people from Downton Abbey because

by this time we had a little bit of momentum. And Adam was either in New York or London. And I, we got on the phone before he did his audition. And I sat down on the phone with him. This is, I guess before like we could Skype and Zoom. And I pulled up some Lewis lit clips. And I said, this is your nemesis. And I got him to watch Rick. And he, and he says, I got this.

Oh, he just felt it. Yeah. Because I know exactly what we need to do. And it was just really cool. He just felt it. Like, he goes, I know exactly what we need to do. And it was just really cool. It was really cool. He's incredible. And a great stage actor. Another succession actor who raised suits with their presence.

Succession, Breaking Bad. And stage, like, just a monster stage actor. Well, he got a Tony nomination for the Lehman Trilogy. Any other parts that jump out at you that you remember from the series that you could do? Well, Costable. David Costable. Amazing.

He played Hardman, of course. Yeah. Who else? Who else? D.B. Woodside? D.B. auditioned with Gina. With Gina.

With Gina, which was super fun because- Gina came in to read? We were auditioning. We were home. Everyone was home. Right. And that was going to be the addition to the cast. So she was in town.

So she says, I'll read with, with the contenders. And there was a couple and I was reading the Harvey parts and I just, cause I love Gina so much and she knows how much I love her. So I just remember that moment. We were standing like shoulder to shoulder, shoulder, shoulder. Cause we wanted to keep DB properly in frame, so as opposed to having to shift focus. So I was reading Harvey, she was reading Jessica, and I just remember putting my head against Gina.

I just love you so much. Oh, lovely. Because she just gives them so much and she's so, I mean, we'll just jump around. I remember when my daughter watched the show for the first time, and I remember walking out of the Barbie movie, and she says, you know, Jessica Pearson was the OG Barbie. I saw Barbie with Gina.

I texted Gina and I said, Lily thinks you're the OG Barbie. So what about like some of the names I'm thinking of are Aloma, right? Wendell Pierce, Abby Spencer. Okay, so those are all great stories. So Abby Spencer's story was she was working on Mad Men and Aaron knew her and loved her. And this was before the show had aired.

And so he said, let's go after Abby. And I called her and I said, trust me, I'm going to send you up. I'm going to slide you some stuff to look at. You got to take a leap of faith here. I know we're not in the air. And she did. And that role grew. I mean, that was, I don't think they ever intended it to the legs that that role had. There was a Loma Wright who played Gretchen. And when we did did that role we read every shape, size, color, age. I mean there were such a, I mean hundreds and hundreds of women from young to old to character to, because he just didn't know who she was going to be. We knew she wasn't going to be Donna.

We needed a contrast. We had never met Norma. Yeah. This day. Yeah. So, Aloma just brought that. It was really just a beautiful moment. But Aaron doesn't ever have like boom. He does like to marinate in it, which you have to appreciate and allow the process. He likes to review the tapes and talk about it.

He loves talking to the writers. But Aloma was really special. It was just a special. Wendell, Wendell Pierce. Wendell was a dream. We had been making lists for Robert Zane and thinking of names and we auditioned a few actors. And then Aaron called me and said, the writers room would love it to be Wendell Pierce.

And I was like, who wouldn't love it to be Wendell Pierce? And I called his agent and she's like, well, that's not a bad idea. He works constantly. My whole life with Wendell and his reps, I had a separate, basically a whole separate whiteboard in the office, like dry erase Wendell's schedule because he was all over the world.

Yeah, he was shooting Jack Ryan. Jack Ryan, he was dead. He went to do Death of a Salesman in London and all of these things. And I had to keep track of Wendell to the minute, to the city, to flights from Atlanta, New Orleans, New York. And it was this Rubik's Cube of getting Wendell on the set.

And so both Wendell and Abby, Abby Spencer also, and we joke around about this now. I just had lunch with her and we were talking about, oh my God, the scheduling. Love them both, but my God, the scheduling. But yeah, Wendell was quite special. And Wendell sent me a few emails about casting. I think we'd suggest someone and he always started it.

This is Wendell Pierce, I play Robert Zane on Suits. Oh. Yes, Wendell. We know who you are, Wendell. That's my name too. That's the best. He was, how lucky we were. Well, I think, you know, we don't have a ton of time left,

but with the time that we do have left, I'd love to pivot to what you're working on now, which is Soutel A. You're getting texts about it as we speak. What has that been like? What was that transition? How did you feel when you found out it was happening? What's it like to dive back into the world and sort of have to figure out a whole new ensemble, but in the same, coming from the same man's crazy, beautiful mind. And with the same crazy, beautiful people. I was so excited because this came at a time for all of us, you know, coming off of the

pandemic, coming off of the double strike year and just a really hard, hard time for everyone. And sitting down with Aaron and, you know, I had read the script because the origin of the script is like, was kind of unusual too. It wasn't initially Suits LA. And then the whole Suits phenomenon that summer and all of this stuff that was going on. And so many people are crawling out of the woodwork of my summer camp in the seventies and high school and talking about watching suits for the first time. I mean, people were just hitting me up everywhere and loving it.

And then this comes along and then we get to be live in the room for auditions, which was like the best. And at a time when so few actors had opportunities for pilots to so it was just like the the perfect time place energy and people are so happy to be there and it's um with all the similarities it's also all the differences it's a little bit darker of a story it takes place in LA so there's the differences there and shoots in LA shoots in LA, so there's the differences there. And shoots in LA. And shoots in LA.

That never happens anymore. When I found out we were shooting in LA, Bartis called me to tell me in the same conversation that we were shooting locally and that Anton Cropper was gonna be joining us as a producing director. Anton Cropper was our producing director for how many seasons?

Three. Three? And-hmm. And I burst into tears in my car. I just started crying. And I said, hand on. And so it's just the- Getting the band back together. Getting the band back together with all the best

and the best writers. I mean, my god, we have all the- Rick Meragi. Rick Meragi and Genevieve and John Cowan. And then we have the, you know, the murderer's row of directors. All of our favorites are coming back. And it's just, and then we have the, you know, the murderers row of directors, all of our favorites are coming back. And it's just, I just have so much joy.

And it's gonna be a weirdly built-in audience. So we really have to kind of prove ourselves right off the bat. Would you say the characters are archetypical inside the Suits universe, or would you say they're different and we're gonna be surprised? Well, it's funny,

because I was just talking to Anton after our first table where we have a character, this young girl, who's like a junior attorney. And she is, I love this, I love this actress. And after the table, both Anton and I said, that's, that could be like the Louis lit. Like there's something unique about her that go to energy. Right.

You know, I don't like to do, you know, apples to apples. No, never. But you know, we're casting a nemesis right now. And I said to Aaron, is it Scotty? He goes, no, it's more like Travis Tanner. You know, which we do. You can like use these names as reference points. Yeah.

And we're not mimicking it, but we're just using it to get the weight of the character. So it's great. It's really exciting. And I'm excited for a ticket on the air. I'm excited to start filming next week. And do you know when it comes to air? We don't know yet, do we? I think January or February.

I don't know if they have an exact date. I don't know. But you start, no, nothing official. But then you start, you've started shooting just this week or next week, you said. Well, I'm having this amazing experience watching the show. Bonnie, for the first time, first of all, I mean, Patrick and I are just tickled with watching this show as fans, but also to see who you peopleed this universe with. And we're having these moments, these like fangirling moments, but also a quieter moment of just, wow,

we got to be on a show with those people and together in collaboration, this thing was created. So thank you for that. There's so many elements. Thank you. Because the element of there's so much that goes into it and just the element of luck is something you always have to consider because you have to consider and Erin doesn't like to be said told no. So if if Wendell Pierce is in London or Shy McBride is in Hawaii that does not matter because they have to be here

on this day and we're gonna make it happen. So the element of luck plays into all of it, like the right people being available at the right time, which is any ensemble casting. I always talk to Jeff Greenberg about that with Modern Family, like the fact that these 10 actors were available at the exact same time and put together this perfect ensemble.

So that's that element there because one person could be off doing something and it's not being there for their audition. And that's why we had all those Saturdays and Sundays when we worked because of Wendell, because of Abigail, because of people's availability, but because Erin didn't say no and we needed them. We needed them.

We needed them and it was worth it. Bonnie. Bonnie. Patrick. We love you so much. We are so grateful to you for coming in today. We hope you're going to come back and talk to us. Oh my God.

Both about this show and about the new show as it comes out because you were such an important part of the fabric of this show. And like I said before, and I will continue to say every year, thank you for my life. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for changing the direction of my life. My life looks very, very, very different. You have to call me with casting questions, though. I need to, like...

Yeah, I think we should call it Bonnie's Notebook. Bonnie's Notebook! Oh, my God. And then we got Bonnie's Notebook. Bonnie's binder. Yeah, we just get you to go into the notebook. Can you just travel with it? Can it just always be in your purse

so if we catch you on the road, you can be like, let me turn the page on the notebook the tightest well over Thank you so much, we love you, please come back and talk to us more it's been such a pleasure I love you guys so much. This is so much fun This has been so much fun. This has been so much fun. Guys, that's another case closed. Case closed. Thank you for listening.

Thank you again, Bonnie Zane, for joining us. And please make sure to rate, review, and subscribe. It is one of the easiest ways to support the show and it helps other people find us. And as always, we want to hear from all of you. If you have questions, please send your emails to sidebarpodcastsatseriousxm.com. Okay, Bonnie, see you later. I'm not going to say bye because I am going to see you later.

But for sure. Thank you guys. Thank you. Send our love to everybody over at Suits LA and we'll be calling you with our questions. We love you. Please call me. All right, bye guys.

See you next week. Bye. Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams, and Sirius XM Media. Our senior producer is Kimi Gregory and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader. Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez and our music is by Brendan Burns. Our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin Anderson.