Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast - Dirty Little Secrets

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

This week Patrick and Sarah break down Dirty Little Secrets, and they want to know "are you in bed with them?" In bed watching on your laptops of course! Sarah schools us on the best college pizza, Patrick clears the air about his height and the two discuss why Jessica doesn't have her own assistant, what to do if you get bedbugs, and the helmet is BACK! Plus, Patrick does his best Braveheart impression. Email us a voice memo of your questions about Suits at [e-mail]. We may use it on the show!Follow us on Instagram & TikTok - @suitssidebarGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/sidebar

Can we get an action? In three, two, one. Hi, I'm Patrick J. Adams. You may know me as Mike Ross from the TV series Suits. And I'm Sarah Rafferty. You may know me as Donna Paulson on Suits. And this is Sidebar, a Suits rewatch podcast, or actually a Suits watch podcast, because Sarah and I have never actually watched the show. Each week, we are going to dig into an episode of the show.

We're going to share memories from behind the scenes. We're going to answer listener questions. We're going to ask some questions ourselves. We're going to do it all. But first of all, listener, I just want you guys to know that Patrick has had quite an odyssey. Explain all the time zones and places you've been since I saw you exactly eight days ago. Let me walk you, I'll give you a quick walkthrough. We don't need to dwell on this too much,

but just to give you some context, listener. 10 days ago, I was in Glasgow. We finished shooting the thing I've been working on, Lockerbie. I flew to London, connected to a flight to Austin, where I met you and Kristen Kristen and we did the ATX festival. So we did two days there where we did some press and we did a big event with some fans, which was amazing. But that was a bit of a trip. My brain was already a bit melted. Then flew back to LA, spent two days with the family. And then I had to get on a plane to go to Malta to shoot two scenes,

one where I leave a car and one where I get back into that very same car. That's all I had to do. Then I had to get back on a plane, fly to Frankfurt and then fly to Los Angeles. I have no idea what time it is, but I have a story for you, which I didn't tell you before we recorded because I wanted to get your very live. This was crazy. Okay. Okay. Should I be nervous? I connected through Frankfurt and I was sitting there completely exhausted, lost in an airport, just trying to stay awake until I got onto the next flight. And this woman comes up to me and she says, Patrick, I'm so sorry to bother you. You're not going to believe this, but 12 days ago, I ran into Sarah Rafferty what? this is in the Frankfurt airport she shows me a picture

that she took the two of you I think you were getting your nails done hold on do you remember this? oh yes she was so lovely

yeah we had a really real conversation she's been through a lot she was so sweet she's the best and to just know that she ran into you

completely randomly out in the world two weeks ago. And then here we are in Frankfurt. I thought that was pretty wild. There's no coincidences. And I remember this conversation in the nail salon because we just shared realness, like context about when she was watching Suits, who she was watching it with, what she was going through. She had just recently lost her dad to cancer, I believe, and that he was going through his treatment and that they would watch it together. And I'm getting choked up just talking about that. I know how much shows mean to me, whether it was even just in COVID. I remember folding laundry and just kind of getting through it, the day-to-day and the worries, having a reprieve from my worries from watching shows.

So when somebody comes to me and they're like, you guys were with me while I was going through this thing. It's really the difference between a television show and a film. I think you're like a part of their family. Like you're a staple in the living room, like through everything, through the hard stuff, through the great stuff.

You're just sort of a lot of times, especially when you're a show that there's so much of Suits, there's nine seasons. It's just kind of there. And you sort of a lot of times especially when you're a show that there's so much of suits there's nine seasons it's just kind of there and you feel like a part of the family so sometimes when these people come up to us you can tell like that level of intimacy like you've been through it with them so anyway it was amazing to meet her and it was wild to see your face stuck on a phone in front of me there. And it was just a reinforcement that, A, how lucky are we that we got to do this? And how lucky are we that we get to do this? So anyway, listener, that's why if you hear me drift off into the ether throughout this episode, it's just because I'm trying to figure

out what time zone I'm in. But I'm excited to be here. And do you want to just dive in? Should we just dive in? We got lots to say. What episode are we talking about, Patrick? Today we're tackling season one, episode four, titled Dirty Little Secrets. It was written by John Cowan and directed by Denny Gordon. And it originally aired on July 14th, 2011. And in this episode, Harvey and Jessica defend someone from Jessica's past in a lawsuit.

And Mike is assigned his first solo case, a pro bono housing dispute. Some fun facts from our firm's best researcher here on Sidebar. This was actually the sixth episode we shot. It was the first aired episode with Jolie Andrietta, credited as our costume designer, which I know we'll probably get into. And this was also the episode that Gabriel and I shot a lot of the opening credit scenes during some of this some of the scenes in the opening credits are from actual episodes and then other pieces of them were were custom shot to like slide in it'd be fun to actually do that at some point like an extra go through the credits and i'll point out see if i can remember which ones are from episodes and which

ones we shot i think it's all the close-up stuff, like Gabriel getting out of the car. And I think there's like a me turning really fast, like a very 90210 moment. They were so good. I love the opening credits. I think it gets you in the mood. It gets you in the mood. I will also say, listener, I tried to watch this on the plane on my way home yesterday and was so self-conscious about the fact that I was sitting there watching myself on a plane with people watching me watch me on a plane. I couldn't handle it. I feel like if I was there, I would have filmed you. I freaked out. I couldn't do it. I know exactly. Somebody is going to film it and then it's going

to end up on social media. And yes, I'm doing a podcast, so I have a good excuse. But you know, I do think that's why, just getting back real quick to what you were saying about the intimacy of being on a television show, when, during the time that this aired, so we just said it was June 23rd, 2011. That really was when we started, when people started watching TV on their computers and a little bit on their phones or their iPads. And that's why it felt more intimate because you're like, I'm not just on the TV mounted in your living room necessarily, but I'm like in bed with you. On the subway with you. I sometimes watch TV in the bathtub. Yeah, in traffic. I do watch things from the bathtub.

Go on. Sometimes. What sort of stuff are you watching in the bathtub? Can we get in a sound effect of like some water right now? Like just a little like... Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What if we did a podcast where we were both in our tubs recording?

Why not? Why wouldn't we do that? Separately? Why wouldn't we do that? Let's dive in. We have so much to talk about here. Do you have any opening statements, Sarah, about this? Again, we're talking about Dirty Little Secrets, Episode 4.

What was your overall impression before we dive into specifics? I would say that the first time I watched this episode, I had a little bit of a recalibration because this episode was a little bit more serious because we have a serious case that we will get into and it left some of the established pacing and comedic moments behind for a second it gave us time to take a deeper dive into jessica's character which i was craving to do that lewis receded a little bit and donna and donna yeah i didn't remember when I turned it on that I wasn't in this episode, but I do remember how happy I was to be home because I was pregnant. Yeah, I bet.

And I was very, very sick all day. And I was hiding it. I was like, obviously not. Oh, we didn't know you were pregnant yet. No. No, no. And we didn't, I mean, no, I didn't tell anybody I was pregnant until we were done with the season. Oh, right, right, right, right, right. Of course. It was kind of a different time when you sort of stressed about that. Like, oh, is this going to be a problem for the work? Sure, sure, sure. Of course.

Now I think it's a little bit easier. Well, I totally agree with you. I felt like it was a bit of a different tone. At first, it took me a while to get into it. I was like, wait, where are my guys? Where's everybody having a laugh? And yet at the same time, by the end, I think I really appreciated that this was an and really drop into the feelings and the things that these characters are going through. So I ended up feeling like, oh, cool, this is an episode where we proved we could handle that. And it did remind me how much, how thrilled I was personally that I was on a show like this. Like, they called it at the time a dramedy and i don't like that word it doesn't seem to do it it's it was it's diminishing i think a little bit of both things

yes exactly exactly it's a show we were on a show where we had the opportunity you know to play moments that were comedic like overtly comedic and silly some i mean stuff gets pretty silly lewis has a cat that goes to a dentist i mean it goes there at some point and then really really dramatic things happen and i think this is where we kind of threw the gauntlet down in that and then i think it works and the audience stayed in yeah nine years well let me get into the cold open summary here after mostly dominating a late night harvard trivia session between the associates mike wins his stayed in. Yeah. Nine years. Well, let me get into the cold open summary here. After mostly dominating a late night Harvard trivia session between the associates, Mike wins his first pro bono case assignment, but is now convinced that Lewis knows his secret. Harvey witnesses Jessica

being very familiar with a new client, Quentin Sands, whose pharmaceutical company is being sued. Jessica reveals that Quentin is her ex-husband and assigns Harvey to defend the case. First of all, we've got Mike doing this trivia scene. Can I sidebar really quickly? Sidebar me. About how he almost loses. About how Mike almost loses. Mike almost loses.

Because why? Because of pizza. Right. Because Mike can memorize all the things in the world he wants, but he doesn't have the lived experience. Which is great. It's kind of what this episode is about right and my silly sidebar is just is about pizza because i paused and went sort of on a deep dive about pizza

so the two schools that i went to there were two pizza places at both of them right there were rivalries about these pizza places and there was like a piece of your identity that had to do with these. So I want to ask you. What were the two pizza places? Well, so, for example, at Yale. Is this a really long humble brag about how you actually went to Yale? No. See, I knew this was going to happen. This is the longest humble brag ever. We're cutting this. No way. We are cutting this. This is the thing. You are setting me up. I'm trying to talk about pizza and you're giving me shit that I went to New Haven. New Haven? That's what we're going to call it? Okay. Anyway, I actually do want to know what you're talking about. What were the two pizza places? Okay.

So at Harvard, everybody knows about Pinocchio's. Right. And at Yale, everybody knows about Sally's and Pepe's and it's still a thing. I checked because I have family members who live in New Haven and they came to visit me this weekend. So I have like nephews. Okay. And so they gave me a whole tutorial on Sally's and Peppy's because one of them's

going to work at Peppy's this summer. Which one is better? That's the problem. You don't know? Talking about that, that's the thing. It's too controversial. You can't talk about it. You'll get in trouble if you weigh in on this. Do you have an opinion is my point. I mean you can't tell a non-bulldog

a new trick. I don't even know what that means. More Yale humble bragging. I tried to be a jerk. No, I hate this. See, this is the thing. We've talked about this. What did I do?

I didn't do anything. No, we've talked about this thing. We talked about it in previous podcasts that this is the thing where you're going to make fun of me because I call it drama school. And you guys all go, oh, drama school. Hey, I went to drama school. No, but you don't call it that. You make fun of me because I call it drama school and you guys all go oh drama school hey I went to drama school no but you don't call it that you call it school and I called it drama school so you guys would give me I think it's more how I talk about it when I talk about drama school it's pretty chill it's just like I went to drama school but with you you kind of create a bit that's not fair people did it was he making fun of me no not at all he made fun of me you I'm looking to the booth you guys he made fun of me greatest schools on planet earth where i'm sure you i'm just trying

to talk about pizza great there's pizza at the school that i went to but you won't tell me which one's your favorite no that's i'm trying to ask you about pizza okay at schools did you have a rivalry at usc which is one of the greatest schools in the world. Don't you try and do this? It is. Do you know the acceptance rate at USC? Do you? Yes. It's well under 10%. Oh, I think it's very different now. It is so hard to get into. Yeah, it's very different now. I would not get into USC. I'm just giving you, I wouldn't get in anywhere. I wouldn't, my brain is applesauce. I wouldn't go to any school. I wouldn't get into any school. I would homeschool myself. Have you been to Pinocchio's Pizza? I have not.

I have. I went one time. How was it? It was delicious. And I believe, again, our firm's researcher has discovered that on their homepage right now is a clip of this. Is it a clip of this episode? It is on the homepage of Pinocchio's Pizza. What an honor. Yeah, total honor.

Okay, well, pizza's a thing. So that was the longest sidebar. And you guys are going to have to cut that down. No, stop telling them what to do. That needs to be cut down. So later in the hallway with Harvey, Mike is convinced that Lewis knows and wants to hack Harvard to protect his secret. But Harvey isn't worried.

This is sort of just a moving scene. But did you notice in this scene as we're walking, it's so silly, but as we're walking, we're in that back part of the set that we haven't yet seen on the show. And if you notice, we're walking through those double doors and those filing cabinets used to be there. And we end up in what in the background of Harvey and I in this sequence is just a bunch of desks. There's like more office. It looks like another bullpen, essentially. But that's what becomes the library. But the library isn't built yet. It's my point. It's a fun thing when you're watching us walk through that and you can tell we haven't built the library yet. So that part of the set is where the library is going to

exist. Oh yes. Which is only interesting to us. After that, Harvey notices that Jessica is very familiar with new client, Quentin Sands, played by Russell Hornsby, whose pharmaceutical company is being sued. Jessica reveals to Harvey that Quentin is, in fact, her ex-husband and that she believes in Quentin's innocence. So good. I mean, I'm right in, right off the bat here of this episode. First of all, Russell Hornsby.

Oh, my goodness. Again, how lucky are we with these actors? Right off the bat here of this episode. First of all, Russell Hornsby. Oh my goodness. Again, how lucky are we with these actors? Right off the bat, these are people who are coming onto our show not knowing that suits what it is yet, which I keep, you know, like we had Titus Welliver and now we have Russell Hornsby. We have all these people. We have Sharon Leal. have who probably have their pick of the litter at this stage in their career of like whatever shows they want to do so uh i just think we're so lucky to be able to like start our first season with this caliber of actor so when i was watching this scene when harvey comes in and starts to talk to her talk to jessica this is where i leapt up i literally was laying down on couch watching this and i sat bolted upright as if i had had like the happiest dream of my life because we finally see Jessica in a great dress. It's not pants and it is so chic. And then I was like, this must be Jolie's first episode. And I knew this because Gina found a moment and never underestimate that we all found a moment

when there was something special on the back of our dresses. We made sure that it was on film. Oh. So she went, she stepped away from her desk, I think over to the coffee table to pick up a file to put in her briefcase. So we got the back of her dress and you can see that there's a keyhole

in the back of the dress. Oh my God, I didn't notice that. And it's so, it makes me feel so, That's a bathtub sound. So, it makes me so happy to see. And then additionally, through my excitement, I had an epiphany. What was that? I love those.

So I wasn't in this episode and this was Jolie's first episode. Mm-hmm. So I wasn't in this episode and this was Jolie's first episode. And into season two, I was in a fitting with Jolie. And she was like, baby girl, I didn't know you were a series regular. Oh, because she started basically on an episode. She started when I wasn't there. And I was always like, why don't I have a closet? Like she did not. Listen, she hit the ground running.

She came in and she picked up in episode four on a show. And she had to deal with all the pieces that were there and turn it into her vision. And reshop and reshuffle everything and get this show on the track that it takes for the next nine years. Yeah. And. And so you're saying you could see it on camera that happening like you saw oh my god jolie's here now when you saw jessica in this scene immediately and that's why i got up and and checked and then i can see it in the next episode

that in the next scene where she walks into harvey's office which is a morning scene and she's wearing this beautiful shawl collared suit you and you you felt it when you saw my suit as well as this you could really tell it got undialed up right i am not when i'm in an oversized uh pinstripe you guys are just pretty from just right here in the in the in the money maker that's just all i focus on um we're gonna we have a question from a fan from Will. Hi, Will. Will. Hello. Thanks for doing this. Why doesn't Jessica Pearson have an assistant? She's a head of the dang firm. Exclamation point. Exclamation point. You would think that senior partners have them. She would too. Love the show. Big fan. Will. Hi, Will. It's a great question. Will, it's not the first time it's been asked.

It's the sort of question that you will see Aaron Korsh get very angry when it's not the first time it's been asked um it's the sort of question that you will see aaron korsh uh get very angry when it's asked because it's not uh it's not his favorite and his answer for it is the whole firm is her assistant oh i love that that was the answer that's a good answer yeah why don't we take a little break and then uh when we come back we're going to be talking about mike wearing harvey's suit we're going to be talking about Mike wearing Harvey's suit. We're going to be talking about bedbugs. Are they as disgusting as we thought? And we're going to see Mike take on his first pro bono case. So we'll be right back.

All right, we're into Act 1. In Act 1, Jessica promises Harvey that she'll stay out of the Sands case. Harvey meets with Quentin and his girlfriend Lisa, as well as the plaintiff's attorney, who asks for an impossible $250 million settlement. Meanwhile, Mike meets his bedbug-ridden pro bono client who is being unfairly evicted. In the first scene of this act,

Harvey only agrees to take Quentin's case if Jessica stays out of it. I really appreciated in this scene the development of Harvey and Jessica's relationship and how Harvey feels about being left out of her personal life. I think it's really, really endearing. But also, I have to say, I just loved how Gabriel delivered the line at the end, the button, like, who doesn't like me? Who doesn't like me? And he was like looking around. I feel like he was kind of looking for Donna. Yeah.

In that moment. Yeah, he needed his Donna. Wait, who doesn't like me? You're right. This really sets the two of them up. Like, I'm so there, not just for Jessica's development in this, but also getting more behind the scenes of Harvey and Jessica and seeing them have to, seeing the way that Harvey deals with her navigating a difficult thing. behind the scenes of Harvey and Jessica and seeing them have to, seeing the way that Harvey deals

with her navigating a difficult thing. First of all, he's upset that he wasn't included and that he didn't know, but he also sees someone who he admires and respects going through something in this episode. And it's really fun to watch him do that. And also as somebody who played the woman behind the man for a lot of seasons, in a way, Harvey's the man behind the woman. Exactly. Exactly. Love it. And we see that a lot in this episode. And that gives him different things to play. There's some scenes coming up where he's not the most powerful person in the room

constantly throughout this episode. And he has to defer and he has to take care of his mentor. And I really like that. So then Mike meets his new pro bono client, Frank Carvello, played by Matthew Lemke. Matt Lemke's a great guy who's dealing with bedbugs. Mike, then Strong Arms City employee, Glenda,

played by Kim Roberts, to get Frank an inspection. I don't even know how you're going to talk about it because I know as soon as I was watching it, I was like, I was feeling it. So I was like, Sarah's feeling it. Sarah's got some thoughts about this scene. Do you want to get into it? Well, I just want to say, first of all, Kim Roberts as Glenda was so amazing.

And of course, I went immediately to find out what else I can see her in. Tons. I looked at her. She's in everything. She's also a voice on Paw Patrol. Whoa. I'm super jealous of that. Okay, so let's talk about the scene.

So Kim, you guys both crushed this scene. Right. But, you know, Mike threatening Glenda, unfortunately, isn't, like, the most winning thing. And it's not,

I really want to say, it's not because of performance on either side. It's beautifully performed. But I want to ask, like, what were the, what were we going for here? Because if Mike is trying

to speak truth to power or something like this glenda doesn't deserve this i feel like i feel like it called for like a charm not a showdown maybe some empathy for how hard her job is honey not vinegar would have been a vibe here yeah i think again like i think we're at a place when we're watching the show where we're just like seeing us try things i think the writers are trying things. We're trying things, you know, but this does feel like one of those places where it's like, oh, I think Mike finding a way to use his charm here

to do a thing that maybe Harvey would strong arm. But that's the problem is I don't think Harvey would do this. I think Harvey punches up. He doesn't punch down. I don't think like, again, we're just starting the show, but my experience of Harvey is he likes to punch up at people. He doesn't want to, like, if he has way more power than someone and they're not in a legal battle,

he doesn't want to, like, threaten them personally unless they've done something really horrible and they sort of deserve it for whatever that's worth. Glenda does not deserve personal yeah threat overpaid or an over overworked underpaid government worker doesn't deserve to be threatened personally for not complying with with mike but you know it may have a little bit of a statute of limitations on it i think today if we were shooting this today this scene would have been different yeah i think I think so. Yeah. For sure. For sure.

So Harvey meets with Quentin and Lisa, Quentin's girlfriend, played by Sharon Leal, at Sands Pharmaceuticals. So good again. I know. Amazing. How good or how lucky are we? And they explain why their breakthrough ALS drug is so important. I'll give you a little background here from our firm's best researcher. According to ALS.org, ALS is a

progressive neurodegenerative disease that affects nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord. There's currently no cure for ALS, and every 90 minutes someone is diagnosed with the disease and someone passes away from it. And also in this scene, I think this scene may have had one of my favorite lines in it. Which one? It's when Russell says, Hey, we were drinking coffee on the titanic i don't think that put leonardo dicaprio in the water i caught in this scene and i know we're not really cursing here but i heard a bull beep in this scene and it made me think i don't i hadn't heard any cursing in the episode and when we any episodes not yet we we aired i mean it must have been 10 p.m if we said that so i guess we were

swearing i don't know it really jumped out at me i was like did he just say that cut to mike in the apartment of his bed bug infested client frank frank has served an eviction notice for unpaid rent by the landlord played by paulino noon's who's also great hit some good bad guys here um in the scene we learned some really gross. Have you ever dealt with bedbugs in your life? Don't even say that. You haven't. You lived in New York at some point, didn't you? I did.

I did live in New York for a long time. Is it a thing? Like, is it really bad still? Are bedbugs like a serious? There was a whole thing in Paris recently. I've never dealt with them, but it sounds horrific. It is. Next, we see Harvey waiting for Mike on the street.

Mike arrives on his bike wearing Harvey's suit, which Donna got from Harvey's office. Harvey is not pleased. Can we talk about this scene? This is what happens to me in my life still to this day. Oh, my God. Are you that guy from Suits? You're so much bigger than I thought. And I'm realizing it seems like this that did not help that cause.

Gabriel and I are the same size, guys. We're basically the same size human being. I think we are exactly the same height. He might be like a little trimmer than I am. He's a vegetarian. But we're basically the same size human being. And they put me in one of his suits and it's like I'm swimming in it. What is going on and I remember

in the moment I was shooting I was kind of upset I was like guys I'm not why isn't why is it so much bigger been it's like the joke won't work unless it's bigger but then I think it's set on this like thing that persists to this day that I'm somehow you know like three feet smaller than Gabriel that I'm like a hobbit and people seem disappointed they like meet me and they're like whoa you're really tall like what how tall is Gabriel is he six five I'm like no we're the same height what about on the poster were you guys at the same height yeah Gabriel and I are well I might be standing behind him a lot on the poster okay so maybe that's it well I also think it has to do with there look at us on the poster. Okay, so maybe that's it. Well, I also think it has to do with, there, look at us, on the poster, same height.

Oh, same height. I bet that was like actually figured out in your contracts. Things like that, apparently they work that stuff out. They have to be the same size or whatever. I mean, my team wouldn't know. I mean, my team was like, Patrick got a job? Great. But I think it also

has to do with the power dynamic of the characters. I think people just see me as smaller than him. Right. Because I have to be in their minds. And I think a scene like this does not help it because it gives that a physical reality. Like, oh, he must be smaller.

Look at him swimming in that silly, ridiculous clown suit. Maybe it speaks to how well you transformed into being Mike and how you played the status so beautifully that we assumed there was actually a difference in stature that there wasn't so you literally shrunk a little bit i'm glad you said to fill mike's shoes that's what i was thinking actually and i didn't want to say it because it was going to sound egoic but you're acting but i want to point out that the helmet is back and the helmet is getting my award for best recurring performance. Yeah, because anything to make

it cooler. I'm wearing a suit that's 18 sizes too big. And now, hey, actually, you know what would be great though? You have to put the helmet on because you're on the bike. You can see me trying so hard to look like not completely ridiculous in scenes like this.

You know, you crushed it because Harvey gives you for wearing the bike helmet and you own it. And then you say safety first. I also need to point out that that is not in the script. The safety first? Safety first is not in the script. Oh, Gabriel. I knew it was you.

No, you said safety first. Oh, right. I'm smart. Nevermind, Patrick. i knew it was me well you go right into the next scene where we meet the opposing counsel colin church played by anthony stark and he wants a 250 million dollar settlement which would absolutely bankrupt sans but in that scene he calls you harvey's child and you and you yeah i gave him the finger. But you got it past the censors. You can't give the finger.

You can't do a finger on television? Is that real? Can we get a clarification on that? Yes, we do need to fact check everything I say. But the reason I say that is because I once gave you the finger and they could only use my nail. Like the top of my nail in the shot. Really? Is that real?

You are allowed to do it but i imagine that for ratings purposes they don't prefer you let you do it very often yeah i mean i i remember when i said it was an episode that gabriel was directing it was in season eight or nine i feel like and i say i'm in my position because I earned it. And I had never. Wait, that's in the show? It was in the show and it was. Did it make the cut?

It's in the cut. It's in eight or nine. Like we're talking years from now. Yeah. You did an eight season? I went to Yale drama school. Let's jive into act two. Act two summary. In this act, things are not going our way for the guys.

We see that Harvey has met his match in opposing attorney Church. And even with proof of shady recycling plaintiffs, the judge moves forward with the case. Even worse, Mike loses his first case in housing court. Let's just jump right to that scene. That scene was so good. I love that. Thank you. And also she's great. Vivian Tanaka. There is a scene where I think Gabriel's character says Vivian Tanaka there is a scene where I think Gabriel's character says Vivian Tanaka like four times

it's such a good name such a good name and again like this scene really reestablishes what we got out of that that Harvard

trivia scene at the beginning which is that Mike can do all of the prep in the world but there's certain things and elements in the world of law

that he doesn't know. Because you only know because you know by doing it. Because he's a fake lawyer, he's out of his element. So I think that's why this scene is so fun to watch, is to watch, A, Mike trying so hard to be the best little lawyer that he could be. He's just giving it his all. He's so nervous. I do this wave. Do you see that moment? Yes. Where we have to give the paperwork to the judge, and then we do a little do-si-do and I'm like, oh, sorry. And then I wave at the judge. I hand it and judge is more interested in the evidence indicating Quentin has a financial motive for the fraud. So the case is going to proceed. So you had an interesting. these courtrooms are the same courtroom because usually when you shoot again, a courtroom and we hadn't yet built our own courtroom, you have to shoot all the scenes at once. And yet these are supposed to be two different courtrooms in the,

in the story of the show. So you can tell that we're shooting the same courtroom in a totally different way. The first scene is head on looking down at Tanaka and Mike and back to the judge. And then in this scene, it's mostly sideways. It's profile across Harvey and,

and church. You notice that? So by the end of this podcast series, will I have learned how to direct? Yeah, you could already direct. You would be a great director. I don't want to hear it.

I'm going to have to go back to school. They had directing classes at Yale. I have to go back to school. I think I'm going to try to get into USC. I wonder if they'll take me. Okay, why don't we take a break. When we come back, we're going to figure out what surprises Jessica and what does this case mean for Mike and Rachel.

Be right back. Let's dive into act three mike realizes his case is about more than bed bugs so he recruits rachel to help him find out more information about the sleazy landlord's properties jessica takes over the sands pharmaceutical case and quentin reveals to her that he actually has als so the first scene is harvey and jess Harvey and Jessica talking in Jessica's car and she decides to take over the case. And we learned that Quentin began seeing Lisa before he and Jessica separated. But still, Jessica believes in Quentin. And I just have to ask you about this scene. Did you feel, this is your hometown that they were driving through. I had to watch the scene many times because i got distracted by like the third character in the scene which is what's going

on out the windows which is they're basically driving up queen yeah and they drive around queen's park see this i wished i was watching it with you so we could talk about what we were we should do i was thinking we should do one of these where we watch the episode and then we record like right after it. Like no notes. We just raw dog it. Where we just watch an episode and we record a podcast. I think I raw dog anything. I mean, if you can make me a t-shirt that says I'm raw dogging it. Sidebar.

Raw dog it. I might do it like if it has if it's like macrame and some like really really kind of like if it's like really rough hewn like handmade something um there's a thing that happens in this scene or that i just loved which is he's showing her the paperwork that is telling us that he was with l before he was finished with Jessica, right? Like that's new information. He was trying to hide it from her, but he's found it out.

And she looks at it and very quickly goes, you think I didn't know about this, right? And then, you know, not to jump too far ahead, but we do realize coming up in a scene with her and Quentin, she didn't know. And it just speaks to what a badass she is. That this isn't for you, Harvey. You don't get to see me squirm. You don't get to see my reaction to this information. I'm going to take it in. I'm going to be able to digest it on my own,

and then I can take it to the source and deal with it. I don't know. It's just- She's playing chess. Yeah. She's just playing a level of chess and she has a command over her emotions, which again is not a coldness or not feeling them. It's just, I'm not here to feel them with you. This is not the place to feel them, which I really liked. I just learned. I feel like I learned a lot about Jessica in that moment. Yeah. So we're back at the office. And initially Harvey can't believe that Mike lost in housing court. But when he learns that Mike was up against Vivian Tanaka, Harvey knows something's up.

The building's going condo and Mike needs to think bigger. Mike recruits Rachel to visit one of the landlord's other buildings to investigate the condos for sale. They pretend to be a married couple interested in buying in order to get access to information about the older tenants in the building. Okay, so I want to talk about this scene because the role playing was fun. I had to rewatch it a few times. There was a moment where I thought maybe this moment made it get a little bit weird. Do you remember the moment where you guys turned away from the saleswoman and had like a little sidebar? You had a little quiet moment. But I

think what I heard was Rachel say like, somebody's touching me. So it made me feel like she does not want to be touched. So this gives me the idea that this might have a statute of limitations of it on it because there might be a power dynamic here that i don't know i think i think i completely agree with you i was watching i was like oh what what just happened i heard someone like she turned around and like clearly didn't want to be touched and then i'm like come on no we're doing the thing and i think it's i think it it's a scene where if you just cut that part out and had us whispering to each other it would play i 100 agree with you i like i've sort of sprung on her that we're married right that's what happens do i say we're married

or we're getting married yeah no you're married your mother-in-law yeah yeah um and and that she's not she's trying to like keep up and she was like i didn't know that's what we were going to be doing here and and i think it just just takes a turn for the worst in that moment. Yes. Yes. I agree. I'm exactly on the same page. Yeah. Harvey meets Jessica in a bar where she shares that Quentin needs the drug to work because he, in fact, has ALS. And I think we're going to get into this conversation more when we talk to Gina into this scene. So I don't know

she had some really really clear and interesting recollections about this being so early on in the process and her how she knew jessica and how we had a new director and we were just sort of getting into it and it was kind of it's kind of great to hear from her about that moment in a process when trying to get everybody on the same track. Ended up being a really great scene and a pretty major turn, obviously, in the episode. Another great needle drop in this scene, background, Misery by Kendra Morris. It's quiet, but a great track. Can I ask you a question? What would you say the kind of music is? Because all that music, I'm just like, oh, I love this music. I just want to

nestle into leathery couch. I'm not going to interrupt you. I'm not interrupting you. R&B soul. Okay. I'm calling this genre, the genre of music that makes me just want to cuddle jeez i loved this song and it just made me want to tuck in tuck in with like a nice beverage get in the bath and a nice person bath and candle and now we're on to act four in act four jessica and harvey find out lisa is the one who committed fraud in an effort to save Quentin. They offer the plaintiffs a stake in the company so Quentin can continue his research. Meanwhile, Mike assembles a large group of plaintiffs for his own harassment suit, but he still needs more evidence. Jessica and Harvey go good cop, bad cop with Lisa,

who confesses she tampered with the drug trial by removing a patient who showed signs of liver damage. Can I ask a question? Can you pull this up? Because I have a weird note that said this might be my favorite Jessica outfit. And I'm sure upon saying that, you're going to tell me I'm crazy. I'm going to tell you I love that it is. And I think I know what you responded to.

Okay, let's just pull it. And I went back to look at it. What's great about this look is that you don't see the full look until they're on the rooftop. It's that shirt. Yes. It's the way the shirt is just like she makes it look like that's just normal but like the amount of work that goes

into i imagine that's it draping draping exactly the draping of the shirt which echoes the draping of the skirt that we see later but you see how it sort of tucks out of sight and that blazer it's the way the tones are all working together. But also, so she has the softness of the shirt, the drape, and then the structure of the blazer. So it's like both things. She's both soft and she's tailored and professional. Yeah, it's the both of them. It speaks to what's happening in this scene where she is playing two things.

She's holding the internally, like her shirt underneath is holding on to like the pain of the loss, but she is a total consummate professional who is there to take care of business and to win this case. What's weird about this scene is that they're sitting at this weird little table.

Cocktail table. Which is interesting because I imagine they're just like we've sat at so many tables big boardroom tables let's get away from it but they're sitting at this tiny little cocktail table which makes harvey look like a little boy and i'm always love about which i kind of love too again it's so appropriate for this scene because he is with his mentor now so he is reduced. And I think it works because you get all that background. But I was curious. It was an interesting choice that you didn't have them sitting at that table in the background. forehead, eyebrow, eyeball acting I've ever seen. He doesn't know where to look. At one point, he even looks into his lap. So I would encourage anybody to go back and just watch Gabriel's face in the first part of that. But what I'd love to talk about is how Gina is playing this scene, because we start out and you get the feeling that she's playing a little bit of the woman scorned

trope for a moment, and then she turns it and she gets the information that she's playing a little bit of the woman scorned trope for a moment and then she turns it and she gets the information she needs in order to move on to win this case so my question was did you feel like the writers were writing that jessica was thrown by her feelings a little bit in this and they were maybe going to lean into that? Or do you think that they were already knowing that she was being strategic to kind of break Sharon's character to get the information that she needs? What the writers were thinking? I don't know. I'd assume maybe there was a bit of the woman scorned idea and not in a way that I think is, I don't think the writers are just using that as a trope. I think it makes sense in the concept of the story. But I think Gina coming in probably takes a different take with it

and owns it in a different way and plays a different color of it that makes it that much more interesting. And color, that's what you're getting with her outfit. She's got three colors going that are working so well together. That's like one of Jolie's genius things. You know when you're trying to get dressed, Patrick? You don't want to be there for that. No, it's just like, does this work with this?

You see the jeans. You see that like there's there. It's all different colors, but they work together in a cohesive whole. And then later on after that scene, they're up on the rooftop, Toronto in the background discussing how to proceed in the case when Harvey has a moment. I don't know what that is. You are one of them and they are one of you. And he runs off. We're going to get one of these in every episode, right? That's what I'm learning. There is an aha in every single episode. But it's so but it's like great, right? I don't think it's bad. It needs to happen. There's always a moment where something shifts. But I'm always like, what's going to happen? Right. You are one of them and they are one of you. Harvey finds Mike

in a conference room where he's gathered additional plaintiffs for a harassment suit. While trying to still find more evidence, Mike has his own aha moment when he sees a photograph from the building he visited with Rachel. I love that when Harvey comes up to him in this moment, it's like he doesn't even remember what Mike's working on. They've already talked about it. They talked about housing court, but when he comes up with this scene, it's as if he's like, wait, what are you doing? Who are you? What's going on? That's how not important what's going on with Mike is to what's actually going on with the firm, which is great. This is where I decided I's going on with Mike is to what's actually going on with the firm, which is great. This is where I decided I'm going to change all my passwords to Vivian Tanaka.

Do you think it's bad that I said that on air? Yeah, probably want to cut that. Okay. There's also, isn't it, Gabriel has a great moment in this when I say bedbugs. I didn't see it until like the third time I watched the episode, but when I say something about bedbugs, can you pull that up? Can you pull it the same? Does he back away? Yeah, he backs away really slowly that you actually miss it if you don't watch it i tracked down 15 former tenants who were willing to testify to all manner of harassment that forced them out of their apartments you did this overnight yeah i couldn't sleep anyway i kept thinking i felt bed bugs but oh he looks at you oh he does a full all the way down he looks me up and down and just does a step back oh wow thank you for pointing that out that's one of those little joys

yeah that's great the there's a thing that's happening in this scene too after gabriel leaves um which again i love this scene harvey's getting proud of mike mike's mike's working hard and coming up with creative solutions to hard problems. But then he goes back into the conference room and we have this moment where we see Mike remembering the details, you know, the flashbacks. Oh, the foot crosses the threshold of the hat. You see him putting it together for his own aha moment.

That's a thing that just starts disappearing from the show, I think, right? We were really playing. We've seen a couple of it. We saw it happen in the pilot a couple of times. And I think, again, put it on the list of things to talk to Aaron about. But I think in this first season, you see us trying to do it, trying to visually represent Mike's brilliant mind and his ability to remember details that maybe most people don't notice. But you can tell that the show doesn't really want to be doing it that way. And it does stick out.

I notice it when I'm watching it in the scene and it takes you out. It in fact takes you out of the story rather than put you into Mike's perspective, which I think it's wanting to do. It somehow takes us out of it. Well, isn't it something that happens a lot in more procedural type things?

I remember when I did Without a Trace. Do you remember that show? Yeah, exactly. I did that show too. Oh, yeah. so like i think that was uh something that was done for that but we moved away from being serialized or we moved towards being serialized which is the right answer no yeah uh i i think it's we are more we became more serialized as we went and i think it is like a it's a sort of easy tool for like, hey, remember this thing? Look how smart. And I think you're right. I think our show ultimately, it wanted you to either remember, and if you didn't remember, let the writing do the reminding you.

Aaron is a great writer and he really wants the words to do the job. And I think ultimately, the show needed that. We needed to play it and the words needed to do it. Anyway, continue. So in a different conference room, Harvey and Jessica meet with Quentin and the plaintiffs, and Harvey has taken out his own ads listing feedback on the drug, and Quentin reveals that he too has ALS. They offer the plaintiffs a share of ownership in the company so Quentin can continue the research. And I just want to say that my emotions were so successfully manipulated in the scene it is so beautiful it's great writing you get double acting by russell you have a russell acting behind himself on the screen behind him and you've got and he's kind of flanked by both

jessica and harvey and having all those people in the room i think i mean we've been talking about plaintiffs and i think seeing the people just human beings in that room that we now can like visually imagine they're going through uh this horrible disease is very powerful and that's what something that jessica in an earlier scene said like when you had all the files on your lap and it was really funny like the files got dropped in your lap and then she sort of took the part of saying, these are people. These are people that we have empathy for. These are humans who are struggling.

Yeah. And now we get to see them. Yeah. If we had a lawyer on our payroll, I would love to know if this is a thing that you're allowed to do in a class action suit. If you're allowed to just approach the people and go, we'll give you a stake of the company. I don't know. Are you allowed to do this? Because it's kind of brilliant. It's a great move. You want it to be something that could happen. So, I mean, if it is a fantasy scenario, they brilliantly created that. Because at the end of

the day, our show is all about any show. Any storytelling is about the first thing we have to do is we have to suspend disbelief. Everybody does. And I mean, we start suits with that. We've got to suspend the disbelief that this guy can pretend he went to Harvard and get this job. So if it, let's say that this is not a real thing that could happen. It's still is a beautiful, they did it beautifully because I was so emotional during this. And, and we. And we care so much about it because finally we're just saying, can we all just reach into our humanity here and come together? It's beautiful. It's what we need right now. So act five, we wrap things up with Harvey and Jessica having settled the Sands case to everyone's satisfaction. Mike brings his first time case to a successful close and feeling victorious.

He asks Rachel out. She hesitantly turns him down. But before we get to that, this is a great scene. After finding out their offer was accepted, Jessica and Quentin share a celebratory moment in her office. I just love it. This was like,

it's just so chill, right? Two clearly really good actors that just like made it very real there's this great when she says at the end I was mad can we play that scene

it's just so Gina it just makes you like it's Gina yes it's Gina you're like there's my friend you remember that time that your

jag got sideswiped when it was parked outside the house yeah yeah it didn't exactly go down that way. I was mad. That's Gina.

That's it. Love it. That's Gina. Yeah, I love that scene. It's such a small, it's funny, it sneaks up on you. There's so many other great scenes in this. There's funny scenes, there's showy scenes. That takes away, I think that runs away with the best scene of the episode for me.

But we needed that. We need to see that part of Jessica. Yeah, that's it that's great that's what this episode has given us that's a gift of this episode is like now you know this woman and you a different side of her and you're going to get that other version of her that's being the pro but you know that that's back there somewhere um and then from there harvey accompanies Mike to visit the landlord and Tanaka. Mike's evidence, a bed bug infested carpet that Kerinsky installed in Frank's apartment in order to drive him out. Let's talk about how much this is going to cost you. Were you really stressed about Mike's well-being after he interacted with that rug? Like when you were watching it as a viewer, not the guy who played him?

Like I was just like, oh, just. I don't know. I i i think i'm like really in the dark about bed bugs and how intense they are so i don't i have no i don't have the same reaction to bed bugs because i've never had this experience so it sounds awful but like you watching it makes me think i should have been more queasy about that situation i mean he was wearing gloves it's not okay or is he is this a situation where was going to have to burn all of his clothes when he gets home? What are we getting from the booth? We're getting nods that he would have to... Yeah, I would have to burn

everything. And burn all your hair. I mean, in my mind, I want to think that that was not actually... I was telling myself it wasn't actually the same carpet. Oh, yeah. I just bought... I don't think it was the real carpet. Oh, you think it was actually the real carpet. I think Mike went out and bought the same carpet and is just putting it down and showing it. Wah, yeah. I don't think it was the real carpet. Oh, you think it was actually the real car. I think Mike went out and bought the same carpet

and is just putting it down and showing it. Are they really drinking champagne in this scene? That is a real James Bond villain moment. Like, sipping champagne in their skyscraper condo, laughing at us, the poor people. I don't know. I thought that was very funny. And I'm so bummed we don't get more Vivian Tanaka. I thought that she was a real standout of this episode. Lots of great actors here, but she was terrific.

And I appreciate that we have a note here from Kristen that this is it for Christina Chang on Suits, but that you can find her starring in The Good Doctor. Oh, nice. All right. And I will. Mike visits Lewis' office to let him know that not only did he win the pro bono, but he brought in 15 paying clients. I love this. Another great Mike Lewis scene. So good. Mike and Rachel laugh about their married life, and then Mike asks Rachel out for real, but she can't date anyone from the office. You know, this is a great scene. Mike shoots a shot. The show has been setting up that he, you know, obviously from the very beginning is in love with Rachel. And so he's going to try and translate the sort of fun they had on this case into maybe a real date. And we get a piece of night. Celebrate. You're funny. Hey. This. Serious.

Suddenly we're in Braveheart. Suddenly we have like a Highland fiddle playing in a misty Scottish morning. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but it is a strange... Every man dies. Not every man really lives. Was that Mel Gibson or was that Shrek?

I love you. I was off. I want to marry you. Two questions for you. How recently did you watch Braveheart? I'm off book on Braveheart. What? Yeah, I'm off book on Braveheart.

But I have to ask you, did you notice right away when you were watching it, did you hear the music? Because I didn't hear it. Yes, it jumped right out of me. I was like, maybe it's because I was watching it from Scotland. Look, again, it works. It's a very sweet note. And I think the scene is heartbreaking. And you can tell, I thought it's played really beautifully by Megan as well. You can tell she wants to, that this is nice, but also hard no boundaries. I don't do that. And you can tell she's trying to set that very clearly. It's a beautiful scene, but the music just didn't feel like any other music I'd heard on the

show before. So anyway, that's our episode. That is dirty little secrets. And boy, were there some dirty little secrets. Um, closing statements, where are we at? I loved it. I, it did take me a second to adjust to the shift in the tone. And I think that was great because that was sort of stretched me and expanded me as a viewer. And I really enjoyed it. You know, it was interesting. I enjoyed it more and more each time I watched it, too. I saw more and more things.

I loved it. Absolutely. It grew on me. I loved the episode. At first, I wasn't sure if I was loving it. But I think it really established early on that our show can handle something heavier, more serious. And we get such great background and depth to Jessica, who, you know, up until now had been a bit of a mystery to us.

And I'm so excited to talk to Gina about this episode and about her experience playing the great Jessica Pearson. Where are we at? Goddamn wise? You want to take any guesses? You want to take a swing, Sarah? None. You're saying zero? I'm going to go. I was too distracted by the Braveheart music.

Three. There are zero. Whoa. You already knew that. You said it confidently. I did not know that, but I couldn't remember one. So that takes us to a grand total of? Well, we're still at 13. It was 13. Well but I couldn't remember one so that takes us to a grand total of well we're still at 13 it was 13 well I don't remember

oh that's how addition works god damn it well that's a wrap on Dirty Little Secrets thank you all so much for coming back as always we want to hear from all of you so if you have any questions thoughts or ideas of other things you'd like to hear from us here on the pod please send your emails to sidebarpodcast at SiriusXM.com and if you want to hear from us here on the pod, please send your emails to sidebarpodcastatseriousxm.com.

And if you want to record an audio clip of the question, please go for it. Then we can play it on the show. Can't wait to hear from you. Thanks, everybody. Look forward to seeing you next week. Thank you. Bye.

Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams, and Sirius XM Media. Our senior producer is Kimmy Gregory, and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader. Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez, and our audio mix is by Eduardo Perez. Our music is by Brendan Burns, and our executive producers are Cody Fisher andin Anderson.