Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast - Identity Crisis

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

This week, Sidebar get spicy! Sarah and Patrick bring their quibbles (or are they quabbles?) to discuss S1 E8 - Identity Crisis. Sarah shares about the history around June 3rd 1997, a guest star is awarded the Gina Tor-Riz Award, and Patrick bemoans how cool Harvey looks in a hardhat. Plus, we have a bonus word count this week - listen to the end to find out! Email us a voice memo of your questions about Suits at [e-mail]. We may use it on the show!Follow us on Instagram & TikTok - @suitssidebarGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/sidebar

Music Hi everyone. Hi. Hi everyone. Hi everyone. Welcome to Sidebar. This is a Suits Watch podcast. My name is Patrick Adams. And I'm Sarah Rafferty.

And we were both on Suits, but we never really watched it until now. And this week we watched season one, episode eight, Identity Crisis. But before we dive in. How are you, Patrick? I just wanna do a check in with you. How are you? I'm sad that we can't do like the finger, like.

We can't touch. We can't finger. I did not wanna say that. We can't physically touch each other. That's what I meant. This week. Like we can't boop. Right. Yeah. Because we are in different states. Yeah. Different states in the United States. Are we in different

states? Different spiritual states, different states of consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think so. I think we're on the same plane there. Yeah. Yes. You know what? Yes and? Maybe I don't want to assume. Maybe I don't wanna assume. I'm gonna say yes and. I don't wanna assume. Okay, yes and. All day long. I have something I wanna tell you. Okay, tell me things. So all the good things happen in my bathtub. Okay. All my thinking happens in the bathtub.

Hold on. This week I felt so overwhelmed that sometimes in the middle of the day I would get in the bathtub. I think I told you this, that on the ridge of my bathtub I put my computer and my papers and my water. It's your office.

It's your wet office. It's my office. It's my office. I'm in there. I'm talking to Charlton on the phone. I'm talking to my lawyer on the phone. I was like, you guys, I'm in the bathtub. Like it just is,

but this is how I regulate my nervous system. So you're welcome. But I'm in there and I'm thinking about last week's conversation. I think this was like right after we had this conversation and you are like, we need to find something for nitpick. And you were like, it needs to have kind of like a legal pun in it.

And I found a 17th century word. Go, please. The etymology is from Latin. This is a word that was frequently used in legal documents and it's associated with subtle distinctions or verbal niceties or a petty objection. And it's a great word. A petty objection.

That sounds the story of my life. What do we got? It's a quibble. It's a quibble. A quibble. That's a legal word, quibble? It has legal origins from the 17th century. You remember. I mean, we know.

I got, cause I got quibbles for days. I think it's a good way to go about the nitpicks because quibble is a word like bubble. Like- Sounds friendlier. It's light. So I think a quibble is a little effervescent. That's how we can address the things we wanna nitpick. We're just gonna do a little quibble.

A little quabble. What if my quibbles are real intense? We use the edit machine. A hard quibble. You. A tough quibble. A quabble. A quabble.

Perfect. You say quibble, I say quabble. Oh, God. All right, should we do this? Can we get to the brief? Yeah, let's get into the brief. Today we're breaking down season one, episode eight, Identity Crisis. This episode was written by Ethan Drogen and directed by Norberto Barba.

It originally aired on Thursday, August 11th, 2011. And in this episode, Harvey and Lewis team up to protect their charity client, who's dealing with an embezzlement. And meanwhile, Mike helps untangle a family scuffle that could bring his secret to light. Some quick fast facts from Kiki, our firm's best researcher. Shoot dates June 23rd to July 4th, 2011. It was on June 23rd, the first day of shooting, that our show premiered.

Yes. Fun fact. So our show is now in the world as we're making this episode. So around that time, we had some reviews on our first episode. And there's one that our firm's best researcher, Kristen, found. And it's from our friend, Jarrett Weisselman, who wrote for Page Six at the time.

And Patrick, here's what he said. Bringing this dynamic new character to life is the endlessly charming Patrick J. Adams, someone who better get used to seeing his mug emblazoned on posters everywhere. Because like suits, I suspect, the endlessly charming Patrick J. Adams, someone who better get used to seeing his mug emblazoned on posters everywhere, because like suits, I suspect, we'll be watching him for years to come.

Patrick, did you get used to that? I did not, in fact, get used to that, fun fact. But Jared was just such a joy. The best. The whole series. He remains the best, he is the best, and was always such a champion of the show. So big shout out to Jared. Thank you.

Did you, do you read reviews? Were you reading reviews? That's funny that we just started with a review read, but. No, I, I know I'm a, I'm a not reading reviews, but I can't remember very well. I think if these came, look, I wasn't as attached to my phone. We just weren't using, I didn't have an iPhone yet. Like we weren't plugged in in the way that we are now,

which was kind of great. Life was more analog. So I think maybe when they would email us reviews, maybe I would look at them sometimes. Not always though. Or page you reviews or sometimes fax you some reviews. Oh yeah, faxed the reviews. We were faxing, you and I were faxing

non-stop back in the day. Somebody just told me that Dolly Parton, the way that you communicate with her is through fax. I don't know if that's true. Edit Machine, take this out, I don't wanna be, it could get in trouble. Doesn't matter if it's true, it feels true. Yeah.

That's what's important. Yeah. So were you reading them? I think I would say that I don't, but that I probably did. I probably, what I do is I poke around, again, I want to take the temperature, so I poke around and then as soon as I saw something mean, I'd close my computer and run away and do something else.

That's smart. I think that's what I was doing. That's really smart. I just want you to know that we got a little note here. This is kind of my dream come true to have Kristin just pop up in my head and go, yep, that's definitely true. She just while we were talking she was like, yeah, Dolly gets faxes. The end. All right, let's get into this. Some opening statements about our episode today, Identity Crisis. Look,

it's complicated coming into this one because I struggled with this episode. I'll just say that. I just was not vibing with it as much as I have like last week's episode, for example. Obviously, we both were really taken with that. And I was like, do I just focus on only the positive and just sort of pretend that I love this episode for all the positive things of which there are many? Or am I just honest and do we come into this and you allow me to at times question what's going on or try and figure out why it's not working for me. Yeah.

So my opening statement here is that I'm gonna try and walk that line finally and sort of discover, cause it could very well just be my mood as much as anything in watching the episode this week, but I want this to be a safe space for all of it. The case I struggled with, it was deeply convoluted. I had a hard time wrapping my head around parts of it. I had to rewind multiple times

to sort of figure out what was going on. I was left wanting more of what we discovered in the last few episodes, which was like the case kind of didn't matter. And I just wanted to know these people and see the stakes for that. As long as I understood the stakes for them, then I was good. For some reason, that wasn't clicking as well in this episode. Other than, you know, and this is the highlight of the episode is, is how much Lewis we get and how much Lewis and Harvey we got. And anytime they were together and they were doing their thing, whether it be fighting or getting along and figuring it out, I was totally on board and loved watching it and

could have watched that forever. Some of the other stuff, including a lot of Mike's stuff, I just was like, I don't want to watch it. I want to skip to more Harvey and Lewis. So we'll get into it. I hope no one takes offense. And I hope that I can find a way to walk the tightrope here. Well, maybe you just needed to take a nap,

have a snack, watch Otto Lenghi make you a shakshuka on a cooking show, and then just regroup, but you didn't have time to do that. So I'm here for you. I'm gonna hold the space, and maybe sometimes I'm going to, huh, here's the legal word, be a devil's advocate. I wanna be a little devil today. But in this case, I'm being the devil,

and your devil's the nice person who's fighting my devil. There's all kinds of devils. I'm gonna be devilishly devil-y. I don't know. So listen, while watching this episode, I got a little bit worried about my personal aptitude in following storylines. So I'm not saying that I shouldn't be worried about that because there's a lot of factors in our lives that cause a kind of deterioration in those skill sets, but I am relieved to hear you address that. What I see here is that Suits is still playing and growing into what it is, and I think out of the gate

there are two very ambitious setups for two storylines that are happily, incredibly populated by, again, an unbelievable guest cast, and we'll get into that. But I think what this episode does really well is that it has a lot of heart, which it leads me to the fact that this is a great Lewis lit episode, but it's great in a new way, not in the buffoon way that we were originally celebrating. What is happening here is that as you know, Rick is so... Can you change your face? I'm listening. This be... I can't.

That you have to keep it. I just want to show you what you're doing. Patrick, can you keep your, can you change your face? Right, as you said that, I took a picture of it. So were you on the same place as me? I was like, I think I'm murdering him. He's dying a slow death. Oh, my God. Okay, I came to the same conclusion

that you did that this is a great Louis Lidd episode. And what's happening is that, as we know, Rick is so committed to truth-telling and nuance, and he never even has a whiff of needing his character to be liked, which I think is really, really magical. And because of that, we get to develop empathy for Lewis while he is going full on douchebag.

It makes me wanna like lean forward and clutch my heart and just say, what happened to you? Who hurt you? You know, and sometimes it's super funny and sometimes it's just so human, it hurts a little bit, a little bit. Yeah, he's really making a lot of bad decisions

in this episode, but it's so fun to watch Rick play somebody making bad decisions. Oh, it's so good. And so I want to dive deep into that. No, let's get into it. Okay. How does our episode start, Sarah? So Jessica and Harvey visit their client, Lucille,

who's played by Paula Newsome, and they are helping get back the money that was embezzled from her non-profit, Stable Shelters, and then at Pearson Hardman, Rachel and Mike do some flirting before they're interrupted by Lewis. What do you remember from that? I wish, actually I wish we were filming because your face is-

I'm already at the point where like, I don't wanna start with quibbles. I wanna start with love. Start with quibbles. Then start with quabbles. Quabbles, quibbles. Start with quibbles. Start with quabbles.

Well, first of all, no, no, I'll start with a strong show. I like this scene at the beginning. Paula Newsom's amazing. How lucky are we to have her? It's fun to watch Harvey and Jessica, like in an environment that's not the office and hard hats and they're doing a good thing. And like, did you see Harvey walking in

was just like, oh, I can't, I, like he was so annoyed that it was a- You know what? Screw that guy. How dare he look good in a hard hat? Like nobody looks cool in a hard hat. You're kind of Lewis. You're Screw that guy. How dare he look good in a hard hat? Like nobody looks cool in a hard hat. You're kind of Lewis. You're on that journey.

I'm over there having to wear this GD, this bike helmet all the time. It looked like such a dork. And this guy puts on a hard hat and he still looks like a super model. But he had this moment as his character, Jessica is just powering ahead, feeling totally comfortable in a construction zone,

and Harvey's a little bit like, oh God, where do I walk so my shoes don't get dirty? This is annoying, it's loud, mm, like it was funny. You do this great thing, which I appreciate because I think I get so frustrated at how Gabriel just is so cool all the time, no matter what. But because you've been friends with him long enough,

you like have the ability to see the dork in him. Yeah, 1993. And I don't see it still. I'm just like, I'm like, no, he's still just effortlessly cool all the time. That's so frustrating. Oh, we'll get to it. There are some scenes that are coming up where he plays it so boyishly.

I just love it. But go on, go on. Tell me about this scene with Mike and Rachel. Did we get a TMI from Rachel, maybe? Right off the bat? We got a lot of that, and I was trying to figure out, again, it's a bit of a quibble. I'm like, why are we starting this way?

And I'm like, oh, I guess we ended the episode with a bit of a sexy moment between the two of them last week, and so we want to pick up there a bit. But again, the episode, there's no runway in this episode to explore that any further, and so it felt a little jammed into this episode to start us with this information about her losing her virginity in Greece.

You know what I think we decided was that having a sexy bet has to be like, oops, it's a sexy bet. It's not overtly trying to be a sexy bet. It's just a sexy bet. It felt a little overt. Like you have to sort of trip into them and have them, I don't know, just it felt like, it felt overt. It's the perfect word.

But I love that Lewis pops into it and ruins it with this amazing moment. But saves the scene. Yes, yes. Because he's, again, so funny. That breath thing he does in this moment. It was like. It was's, again, so funny. That breath thing he does in this moment? It was like, It was like,

It was like, It was so funny. I watched it over and over and over again. And that is the perfect example of Rick like not being afraid to be unlikable. Like for two seconds, Louis lit is absolutely like scratching his nails on the chalkboard.

Like you want to punch that guy. And Rick just leans in. I just hope, in the effort and the hope that Rick will one day come and join us on this, can we please like make a log of all these moments along the way, this being one of them, so we can play them and I can just go,

where on earth did you get this idea? Because it's not in the script. There's no snorting reference or breathing reference in the script. He's totally on the fly coming up with this stuff, and there's like a ton of them in this episode. Well, he's the king of figuring out an interesting moment before. Like, what is he coming from that makes him do that?

And just taking a line that you would normally, and it's something to this day that I, you know, now that we've been watching Suits and I'm shooting this new thing here, I'm actually thinking about it all the time on set, because I have fewer lines than I would have had on suits doing this thing that I'm doing right now and and I want and I want to make I want to make the memorable I want to do something with them and I think of Rick's performance and how he how he could take a line that on the page would just be whatever he would do it and he could do it great and say it normally it would be fine in the scene would be good but he turns it into

this completely different moment because he puts a spin on it. So innovative. So then Harvey takes Mike to his office to meet Jerome Jensen, who's played by James Morrison and Jerome is concerned that his daughter Lola is in trouble and wants Harvey's help. How much do we love Jerome Jensen, James Morrison's voice? Oh my God, I know. I want that guy to read me the phone book.

To put that voice in my bathtub, I'd bathe in it. So then while Harvey meets with Jerome, Louis attempts to get past Donna, and she stops him with a simple June 3rd, 1997. I didn't remember this. You don't remember this scene? I don't remember this scene, and then I... Looms large for me.

We don't ever go... In a world where the can opener has been, you has been the coin of the realm of this show, everyone wants to talk about it, June 3rd, 1997 slipped away. I wanna know what happened on June 3rd, 1997. This is a baby can opener moment. This is a moment that probably led to the, no, it never gets answered.

It never gets answered. I love shooting this with Rick. I mean, it's really short, and we did it so fast. This is a big, like, piece of backstory for me. I know I've said it before. I was getting these little pings of who she was, and they were small, but they went deep. And the truth is, if this were not a comedy scene,

this scene would have been really messed up, because Louis tries to humiliate Donna. And she pretends for a second that she's humiliated, really messed up because Louis tries to humiliate Donna. And she pretends for a second that she's humiliated. And then she effortlessly whips out this date that basically brings him to his knees. And it was kind of amazing to me that she's someone who has the foresight to store information, to strategically have in an arsenal at any given time,

and that she clearly has like this mysterious Rolodex of sources, and she also just enjoys the shit out of herself. And I do remember because I was thinking about that date and I did text Aaron about it. He said, it's not a date that means anything. And all I remember is that it's the first time I tried writing something where we just refer to a character

knowing something about another character obliquely and using it to win. And it just came out. I made up the date and we were off to the races. It might have been with Meragi, he says, but after that we did it a decent amount of times. And Kristen looked back, she looked back on Twitter, she was looking back to see if we ever talk about like what that date was. And Kristen noted that all she could find on Twitter

at the time also explained to me later how you like go back on Twitter and find this stuff Kristen. But she found that Erin basically said like, I know that that Rafferty and Hoffman know what it means. And I can't remember what we did, but I do remember like standing in that little spot where it happens outside of Harvey's office.

And I remember Rick and I going back and forth, like creating a scenario of humiliation of Lewis, like something from 1993, like a frat hazing gone wrong. Like there was nudity. There was, you know, being put in the back of somebody's Honda Civic, like, and driven across the border. I mean, like, there was like crazy stuff. Whatever it is, it's bad because he turns on a dime and he doesn't just go to like- And he does not want Harvey to know. And he also just goes to,

I'm going to get you money right now. Yes, yes. Like it feels like he's legally gonna be in trouble if this gets, this isn't just Harvey finding out, this is like, this feels- What we worked out is kind of in the deeper themes gets, this isn't just Harvey finding out, this is like, this feels. What we worked out is kind of in the deeper themes of the show, which is that there are that joke

that I made about Louis, like somebody hurt you, what happened to you, show me what happened. He's dealt with humiliations, so now he's somebody who tries to deal, humiliations, I mean, hurt people, hurt people, but listen to what Aaron said. I just think this is fun to wrap this little moment up. He said, so funny enough, I had to come up with a date in Suits, LA the other day, and I chose June 3rd as an homage to that moment, and I hope that helps.

I love that it's gonna live on. We should make it a holiday. Should we make it a special holiday? It's the Suits holiday, June 3rd, 1997. June 3rd every year. I think we pulled up the clip maybe. This is another perfect example of Rick taking a line that in the script reads, I was not here.

Yes. June 3rd, 1997. That day means nothing to me. Doesn't it? Who told you? Is the important thing how I know or that I know? Does Harvey know? He can.

I am going to pay you. I don't want your money, Louis. I just want you to... I was not here. I was not here. I was not... I mean, give me a break. It's master class. Moving along, Lewis decides to handle the deposition of Elliot Perkins without Harvey. Things go poorly. Perkins is wheeled out by EMTs and minutes later we learn that he has died. Wow. Wow. That

one's out. Well first of all obviously I don't have to mention it the opposing council here played by Tim Russ who I know you know as Lieutenant Tuvok from Star Trek Voyager. Yep I'm in Star Trek class right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Obviously, a genius performance. Always. Yeah, I was nervous meeting Tim Russ.

Did you say something? Anytime I meet anybody from a Star Trek show, it's like a different kind of starstruck. It's its own particular starstruck for me. Lovely guy and so lucky to have him. He's great in this. When we take this public, you're gonna be disgraced. Oh, when I take this public, you're gonna be disgraced.

Done. Yeah. Done, God. Disgraced. It's just so specific. And then we have our opening credits, and we're into act one in Jessica's office, Harvey and Louis discuss Perkins' death

and the next steps for the case. Again, genius line, would it be okay if I took the credit? Santu and I laughed out loud at that, right at Rick. I mean, with some pain. Look, it only works because it's Rick and because it leads into his next scenes where you see him actually trying to human when he's in Harvey's office.

Trying to human. And he has... He's in Harvey's office with these high hopes of connecting with him, but it's only on Lewis's terms that he wants to connect, right? And he just tries so hard, but he lacks so much emotional intelligence. And of course, that following scene is a failure between the two of them because it does take two to tango.

Harvey Spector isn't exactly one to help Lewis get out of his own way. Already, where are you at for the story of the show? Perkins and Maslow and Embezzlement. I don't know what's happening. Lola Jensen and IDs and... I'm confused. Right? We're both already like, I'm into this scene because I understand the dynamics of our folks

here. If you're asking me what we're actually arguing about- I don't know. And like who did what to who, I'm already- But I have a theory on this and it's coming up later so bear with me, but I think we're learning to delay our gratification. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted to point out like already this early on,

I'm already starting to feel a little adrift. That's cool, that's cool. And having to like go back and just rewatch the scene because I'm so charmed by everybody and loving the interaction, but I'm missing some of the like, wait, okay, so who embezzled what and who was Perkins and why, you know what I mean?

Why was he in the room and all that stuff? And I realize I don't tune into Suits for necessarily following all that stuff, right? A hundred percent. I do not, but this episode is requiring it. Yes, I hear you. More than the other episodes. In other episodes you can kind of tune it out and go, I think I kind of get it enough that I'm following. Yeah. I think this is part of why I struggle with this one a little bit, because it's so much of the episode

that if you don't follow it, then you're missing a huge percentage of the episode. Right, so when we have that line in Jessica's office where he says, would it be okay if I took the credit, and it's hilarious, and Lewis is really broken, it does move into the next scene where Harvey finds Lewis waiting in his office, and Lewis says really kind of vulnerably, like,

I'm trying to build rapport. And it's just, it's a great scene. I love this scene between the two of them. Yeah. Perfect example of like, get them together, and they're trying to build rapport so they can be better at a case. It doesn't matter what the case is. Exactly. I just know that Louis wants to be closer to Harvey.

Harvey can't help but demean Louis. And. I just know that Lewis wants to be closer to Harvey. Harvey can't help it to mean Lewis and they do this little dance and it's fun. So Mike finds Lola Jensen and he tries to talk her out of her plan to steal from her father's company. Oh my goodness. What an amazing guest star. Yeah, Amanda Crewe, so lucky to have her. And Lola Jensen, you know, an important,

as we're gonna figure out, a very important person to the evolution of Mike and the show. And we get her back too. She comes back, right? Yeah, and I wanna say Amanda Crew, I can't take my eyes off of her, so I'm giving her the Tor Riz Award. She gets the Tor Riz Award.

I think so. Do we have to say the Gina Tor Riz Award? Now, I'm gonna ask you about this award. Is it feels like it should be for like a particular moment? Oh, I think it's just a vibe. Oh, to me, the Gina Torres award is like. It's a it's an it's a momentary vibe. It's just like, OK, they come onto the screen and it's like they've got

they've got the real she has. She's got the rest. She's got the rest. She's like, they've got the Riz. She's got the Riz. She's got the Riz. She's got it in spades. And I'm going to say that Mike has met his match in Brains and Heart. I love it. In the lab at Columbia. Yes.

I'm trying to think, I think her Riz moment is for me not in the lab, but when she's, you know, in her out in the world clothes. Oh well yeah. Like jeans and leather jacket and meeting with dad at lunch or something. That might be my Gina Torres award. There's a line in this where I say fake IDs are impossible after 9-11. F*** got weird after 9-11. I mean. Fake IDs were not impossible after 9-11. Sorry there are a lot of fake IDs after 9-11. I'm just trying over here. I'm just trying, I'm just trying.

You are my sunshine, my own. Well, this is my point. I have to be able to quibble. Yeah. So if I'm gonna quibble, you gotta let me quibble. Can you tell me that there were not fake IDs after 9-11? Oh no, I just didn't care. I've never even heard that as a.

I can tell you that I didn't care, that's all. But you heard the line. My quabble is, yeah, and it didn't, I never even heard that as a Tell you that I didn't care. That's all But you heard my quabble is yeah, and it didn't I was just like whatever I was I was focused on something else But I think this is like when I watch shows I like it's not like I'm fine-tooth combing everything everyone says But if I hear enough things in a row that don't make sense You really were annoyed by the poker chips. Well no, but like the poker chips, I was like one thing that made no sense in pilot. But then it goes away and then I forget

and I'm into this story. But if there's one thing, if there's many of those things in a row, the strain credulity, I can't stay in the story because I keep being told things that aren't true. Strain credulity, I loved that. That was cool. I'm gonna try to say that 10 times fast. Everybody wait whileity. I loved that. That was cool. I'm gonna try to say that 10 times fast.

Everybody wait while I try to do it. But you know what, listener, if you can send me proof that fake IDs were much more statistically difficult after 9-11, then I'll be happy to recant. Ooh, fun. Let's do that. I like the gamifying of this. That's perfect.

We can gamify the Quibble-Eat-Quobbles. Yeah, yeah, I don't even know what you just said, but that works. So Lewis and Harvey then go and meet with Maslow, played by the one and only Bruce Altman. How did we get this guy on our show? Incredible. Unbelievable. Listener, if you're a tad younger, the Bruce Altman who's playing Maslow in this episode, he's like an iconic character actor of, you know, I think in the 80s and 90s was his most prolific time, but I mean, he's amazing. Yeah, he's amazing, Patrick.

He's great. I had a really scary moment though. This is a first. What? When I saw him pop up on the screen, I was like, oh, Bruce Altman, I worked with him on- You didn't remember? It was a theater thing. I remember the room. I was like, oh, Bruce Altman, I worked with him on. You didn't remember?

It was a theater thing. I remember the room. When was it? Where was it? Why was it? What was the play? How am I already at the place in my life? How can you forget a job you had?

How can I be at the place in my life where I'm like, I can't remember what the job, I can't remember what the play was. I don't even remember. It's like going to a whole summer camp, sleep away, and'm like, I can't remember what the job, I can't remember what the play was, I don't even remember. It's like going to a whole summer camp, sleep away and being like, I don't remember going. How did that happen already to me? Did you ever recover it?

Do we know? No, it's not in there. It's gone. It's gone. It's just the hard drive's been wiped, huh? Anyway, moving on. As I wanna ask you this, because I have a theme about some of the really subtle things

that Rick is doing in this episode. Did you notice, and I don't even know if I was even conscious on his part, and maybe I'm just reading into normal behavior, but when Harvey and Lewis stand up, because they're done with the deposition at the end of it, it's like Lewis does it exactly at the same time as Harvey, and you can have this, he even buttons his jacket at the exact same moment. It's like he's exactly trying to like be Harvey, like trying to keep up and he's a split second behind. And it just is a little bit of an unconscious kind of heartbreak moment that I think he's building a bunch of these for us. So that by the end of the episode, we're really going to go deep with Louis.

Let agreed 100% again, I just to check in here at the end. Like you're saying all the lovely things that I'm like, but uh, here we are at the end of the first act. Can you tell me what's happening in this case? And I know it's not what our show's about. And I say that knowing that, but can you now tell me what's happening in this case? And I know it's not what our show's about. I say that knowing that, but can you now tell me what's happening with Maslow and Perkins?

I don't know who Maslow and Perkins are. The people across the table from Lewis and Harvey, somebody over there, I don't know their names, somebody over there, these lovely people, these very good actors that I like looking at, somebody over there on their team embezzled money from this lady that I saw at the beginning, who I really like, who seems to have amazing rapport

with Jessica and seems very cool and can wear a hard hat. And we'll see, she also gets real dressed up so she can wear all the hats. And I know it hurts her in some way that I'm not okay with. And then there's a man with a buttery voice who has a falling out with his daughter. And his daughter is a lot like Mike because she's kind of like this Robin Hood

who wants to rob Peter to pay Paul. That's it, that's where I am. Right, but who is Perkins? I don't care. Well, he died, we gotta care. Oh, he died. The man died. I forgot that part, I blocked it out. I don't wanna. Well, he died. We gotta care. What happened? Oh, he died. The man died. I forgot that part.

I blocked it out. I don't wanna drop that part in. I guess that's what's happening. Thank you for this analysis. That poor man died for nothing? All I know is that he did a really good job acting the moments before. Cause I was like, what is happening to that guy?

This reminds me of moments in the show and I don't know if that would probably happen with you as well, but because Harvey and I had to do a lot of the like being in these scenes were. Yes, and I don't know if that would probably happen with you as well, but because Harvey and I had to do a lot of the like Being in these scenes were yes, and I did not so I had the privilege of not having to do Well, I think you did ultimately you ended up being in more of them later on But yeah the scenes where you need to know like wait, what did he do? Why are we suspicious of him? What in this scene is making us more suspicious of him?

I remember Gabriel and I especially in later seasons, but I feel like an episode like this, we probably would have had this moment where we'd sort of quietly turn to each other in the middle of like when they're setting up cameras and lights and be like, do you have any idea what's happening? Like, can you explain? I don't quite understand.

And we would, I think early on, attempt to like really hammer it out. Be like, wait, wait, no, no, no. You would have been in good student mode still. And then maybe by season six we'll catch some moments where we're just like, I honestly, I don't know, are we winning or losing? Yeah. I think we're winning this scene. But you know, as an actor that's not a great place to be in. You don't want to be keeping it that basic. And sometimes when things got this convoluted, it was hard to know what was going on. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Anyway, that takes us to Act Two. Harvey and Jessica meet with Lucille to update her on a settlement offer. Can I just hold space for you on that for two seconds? I just want to say this to you. The edit machine can take it out. I hear you, and it's a really uncomfortable place to be as an actor because it makes you extra self-conscious and insecure.

I'm just gonna say I can get that it does that to you sometimes. I appreciate that. It wasn't even like insecure. It was just like we struggled with the same thing that I think you and I are having the conversation now. Does this matter? Mm-hmm.

Because it doesn't seem to much matter in your appreciation of what's going on and like the important thing of the episode, which is these characters. having the conversation now. Does this matter? Because it doesn't seem to much matter in your appreciation of what's going on and like the important thing of the episode, which is these characters, what's happening with them, right? I'm learning I need to delay the gratification of knowing what's going to happen. Yeah. Right. And so we would be in the scene and we'd be like, well, we have to play this, but does it matter? Right? like that, like I need to know what the details are of this interaction,

but and I think maybe this is why you feel me picking at details, because as an actor, I would go picking at details, and a lot of time, most of the time, 99% of the time, it's fine, and you find your way through it, and then there'd be sometimes as an actor where if you dig too much, if you pull too hard on the string and go,

but why would I ask him that if he just said this and the other, as soon as you start yanking on that, you can keep pulling the thread until the sweater falls apart. And so ultimately the answer is sometimes just like, just don't ask that question. Yeah, and sometimes you find, you found the sweater falling totally apart.

Like you would have, you and Aaron would struggle. Oh yeah, yeah. Which hopefully we can talk about more. I think it's the nature of any show is like, it's show. And there's always gonna be threads that if you pull too hard on them, and you're looking for, because sometimes if you're frustrated as an actor too, you're like kind of looking for problems. Yeah. And so you have to know, when am I doing this

in a way that's out to benefit this episode and just deepen this process and make sure that the viewer is with us on this journey and they're not asking the wrong questions or being taken out of the story versus am I just feeding my own ego and looking for problems? It's a tough thing to know when you're on episode eight and exhausted and not really sure

what your own intentions are. But when in life, what are the tools that you have when you do that in your real life? Now I just stop. I take a big long... I think when I was 28 years old, I'd just go for it. You know, first impulse. This bothers me, I'm going to pull at it. And I'm going to potentially make everyone's life miserable in the process of pulling on it. Now I will like catch, stop, take a minute, do my best to assess. Like is this going to genuinely help this scene?

Is the, are this line of questioning going to help the situation? Or am I just looking to like assert a sort of weird dominance over it by critiquing it. Does that make sense? Yeah, but what do you do when it's not work related? Same thing. Stop. Do I need to say this? Does this need to be said by me now?

Is this helpful? I try to pivot to helpful as much as possible. Oh, I love that. Pivot to helpful. I love that. Doesn't always work. That's okay. That's the jewel though here.

So I've been Googling whilst you were talking and the only thing I can find of Bruce Altman and Sarah Rafferty in common is you both went to Yale drama school. Oh, really? Oh my God. Yale better buy some ad space on this podcast. That's it. That's it. We did. When did he graduate? Is it there?

It's six years before you. Oh. Yeah. Oh. I wonder if he came back and did a play while I was there. Anyway, I'm going gonna, you know what? That's the, like I came up with Quibble in the bathtub. I'm gonna figure this out in the bathtub this week

and I'll get back to you all next. Absolutely. Please join us next week when Sarah's thought about Bruce Haltman in the bathtub. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Won't be the first time. Bruce Haltman's usually the first thing I think about.

Oh right, then Lewis commands the associates. There's no slacking allowed. I could watch Rick scream at young associates all day long. It's great. Max Toplin, obviously. He's back. He's still there. He's still crushing it with just looks at this point. You're not getting lines.

He walks perfectly into a Harold Gunderson close-up. Just like, boom. Okay, so Harvey attends Perkins' funeral and connects with the widow. She's about to agree to be a witness, but then Louis arrives and... Oh, God, Rick brings the most heartbreaking vulnerability to this scene and props helped him so much to have Lewis carrying lilies to a funeral. I mean, like my mom always says, that's like carrying- Wait, is that a no-no?

Well, listen, have you ever heard the term, Mimi always says, it's like carrying coals to Newcastle. Like, that's the thing they don't need. You don't need to bring lilies to a funeral. That's gilding the lily. And so it makes- Sorry, Mimi always says, don't bring coals to a funeral.

You don't have to bring coals, no, coals to Newcastle. Newcastle's a mining town in England. The beer is incredible. But we might know. Who's Mimi? Mom, my mom. Oh, I've never heard Mimi. Oh, I'm sorry.

I didn't know your mom's name was Mimi. Oh, Mimi. Sorry. Yeah, Mimi. Oh, so you know Debra, Kiki's mom. So Mimi looms large. I'm so sorry I forgot your mom's name is Mimi. No, no, no, no.

You do not have to apologize for that. Mimi? Yeah, so Mimi always says you do not have to carry coals to Newcastle. She also says, well, I think that's gilding the lily, right? Like spray painting the lily in gold or whatever. Like you don't need to do that, it's already beautiful. But you're going to a funeral, Lewis, you don't need to bring lilies.

That's the one thing you know they have a lot of. So to watch him just walk up there, like just like, nobody needs your lilies. Like you're just not getting it right out of the gate. He is trying so hard not to be outdone by Harvey that he forgets to bring his humanity. He's so unaware and you can see that it really hurts him so deeply in the scene, but he just can't un-fuck himself.

I mean, he cannot get out of his own way. It's so good. Now, just to take Louis's side in this scene for a second, like why is Harvey getting away? Like this woman's husband was killed by the firm, or so she thinks. We've already actually decided that it was not what happened in that scene

and that he was gonna die anyway, but in her mind, let's say for the case of this scene, she thinks that the firm is responsible for killing. But she's having this fine, wonderful conversation with Harvey, because I guess he's Harvey and he's charming enough. But then I feel bad for Rick, because Rick's coming to do the same thing.

Which is talk to her. Exactly. Which is like how you feel about the helmet. You're like, I don't get to look good in the helmet, but this guy gets to look good in the helmet. Yeah, he's doing the same thing as this Harvey guy, and she freaks out and says, get out of here, and I don't want anything to do with any of you. And she slaps him.

Yeah. Slapity wapity. Wait a minute, did out of here, and I don't want anything to do with any of you. And she slaps him. Yeah. Slapity wapity. Wait a minute, did I miss, how did I miss that? Did I miss a slap? Cause you were in a, you were in a curmudgeon haze. I'm in a mood. But wait, she slaps him in the scene? Yeah.

Wow, I miss that. On his face place. In his face place. Um, oh wow. Okay. Well anyway, but that's even more to my point, which is like, this poor guy, he brought flowers. At least he brought flowers. Harvey didn't even do that.

Cold to Newcastle. Anyway, Lola shows up at Mike's apartment. And she knows my secret. She's hacked the mainframe and she's figured me out, which puts me, if we do a quick recap of who knows my secret now. Uh-huh, do it. Harvey, Donna knows my secret now. Do it. Harvey, Donna, Jenny, Lola.

Yeah. Four people now. Trevor knows. Oh, Trevor, Trevor knows. Yeah, of course. Sorry, five. And can I sidebar with you for a second? Yeah, go ahead. So when she knocks on the door, I was like,

oh my God, is she another possible love interest? I was like, what is happening here? And then I realized, because I rewinded it, I was like, wait, why was I like, wow, another love interest. That feels like gilding the lily on this TV show. But I was really taken with her. It turns quickly that you know that's not happening

within the first few seconds of the scene. um she reminded me of someone that I really really love an actress that I have like a talent crush on and I think it means that I have like a type. Who? Troianne Belisario. I know Troianne Belisario. I don't know if you know this but I'm married to her. Why? Yes she is my wife. Oh my god. And also will, you married up. And also will be on Suits eventually. Yeah, I guess they do, there is a type there. Also, there's a recurring role for the Mike doll here.

And the first Mike doll episode was written by Ethan and now this is the second one written by Ethan and Mike doll is in the scene with you. Anyway, moving on. Good catch, solid catch. And we still have not found the Mike doll out in the real world. So if anyone knows of the whereabouts, solid catch. And we still have not found the Mike doll out in the real world. So if anyone knows of the whereabouts,

please call, we're worried about him. So we are into act three and Lewis tries to convince Maslow's assistant to be a witness. And we see him initially try to intimidate her, but then to use his own words, he pivots from the stick to the carrot. So then Harvey and Lewis visit Maslow's attorney and we find out that Louis inadvertently attempted

to bribe Inez as a witness. Then we're into act four, Harvey's office. Harvey dismisses Mike's concern over Lola's threats and Mike storms off in a huff. I'm huffing. Yeah. We'll find another solution. And it's at this moment that the word Lichtenstein

enters the group chat of this episode and it does not let up for the whole time. Lichtenstein funny enough became Gabriel and I's word for... Your safety word? When basically when we reached a moment of like that's hard to describe but just like when the scripts became surreal and we maybe didn't, and they were making us laugh or something silly was going on, we would always turn to each other and just go Lichtenstein because of this episode.

Because it was really the first time where when we were like reading it, we were like, it just suddenly got dropped and then we had to say it over and over again. It's such a strange word, you know, a place. It's not a place that we talk about a lot, Lichtenstein. And we had to keep saying it over and over again. It's such a strange word, you know, a place. It's not a place that we talk about a lot. Lichtenstein. And we had to keep saying it over and over again in this episode, kind of dropping it like it's just normal. And we wanted to make a joke of it, but it was not the sort of thing that in the story it was time to be making

jokes about the name Lichtenstein. And so, yeah, it became sort of fundamental. So Gabriel and I making sense of things that didn't make sense to us from here on out. A real bonding moment. And later you see Bruce Altman's character. Correct us. Correct. Yeah, correct Harvey on the way he says it. He's like Lichtenstein or whatever. Must've been that Yale education.

Yeah, I really like the scene that Mike's right here, Harvey's privilege is getting in the way of his empathy, and Mike has a right to treat him like a dick because he's totally being a dick. Um... Oh, wait a minute. It is really annoying. Uh, Mike's being a dick or Harvey's being a dick? Harvey's being a dick.

Oh, right. So I think Mike was right to get up and storm out of there, and I liked it. I'm not crazy about my performance in this... in this scene, really this episode, because I think I was struggling as an actor the same way I may be struggling as a viewer and I just couldn't get past it. But I can see me like not maybe committing 100%.

So in a scene like this where I'm like, this is probably the crux of what's going on for Mike in this episode, suddenly he feels threatened and like, you know, this major thing's gonna get lost. I'm just not, I'm like, I feel like I'm swinging a miss. We get in our own way. I did not experience your performance like that. I loved this scene, for example, these exact moments, which means we can't judge our own performances as I've learned, but recently by doing this podcast

with you, but I will say like that is very human and that's a little bit what Lewis is going through. It's reflected a little bit. I feel very Lewis-y. Yeah, just like I'm getting in my way and I'm robbing myself of joy and presence and we all do that. I have never gotten in my own way

or robbed myself of joy or presence. I've already fixed it in myself. I've fixed it, so you're welcome. Mike confronts Lola to ask her to use her hacking skills for good. Because I knew you. I have been changed for good. I love that song.

What's that from? Wicked. Oh, okay, great. Wicked that you haven't. Great. I don't know if, do we have the rights to this music? No. Well, do I have the rights to be singing on a podcast,

is the bigger question here. It's what America needs. It's not what anybody needs, but I do think it gets back to the wicked being of the moment. So Mike confronts Lola to ask her to use her hacking skills for good. Now he's dropping some housing projects in front of her. There were some folders, sort of classic suits, more folders. Yes.

Dropping folders. And this is really where I was like, wait a minute. I've been all over the place plot wise in terms of who's doing what to who and what. I know it's not important, but then he had these folders and he was talking about housing projects and I was not understanding fully. Again, I had to watch, I do understand now, but I had to watch it a bunch of times to be like, wait, what's in these folders? Why does those matter? This is the moment that I referenced before where it's Mike that knits together these

two cases. I'm a dummy. The housing projects are Lucille. Yeah. Didn't get it. Oh, dummy. Wait, let me keep. Dummy, dummy boy. Okay, wait, can I say my thing then? Wait. No. Yes, of course you can. Sorry, I just wanted to. You were giving me an aha moment that was very important of the housing projects. Oh, I feel good about that. And I hadn't realized that those were. That's my win today. They were the same thing. Yeah, so, okay. So this is a tactic for Mike. He's basically saying to Lola, like, put your money where your mouth is.

You're pretending or saying or defining yourself as an activist. But I think that maybe you're just mad at daddy. Maybe you're just a spoiled kid mad at daddy. So show me that you're an activist by using your skills for this other case that I have going on, which will support Lucille's endowment.

And now we see why we needed these two cases and why it was hard for us for a little while. We had to delay our gratification. And what happened to me in this scene is that I discovered that I feel like I should be able to be more patient and perhaps less skeptical with the unfolding of story. And from a character perspective, I think this is really cool because this is juxtaposed to Lewis's journey because if he had had more heart, like Mike does, he could possibly get out of his own way

and get the support that he needs with the case. He could potentially un-censored himself as I've said. If only he could ready for it be like Mike. Be like Mike. Be like Mike by drawing by seeing the different ways. By caring. I totally see what you're saying. I think it makes a lot of sense. Clearly, I am a dummy boy because I didn't tie together. Are we putting that on merch?

What? Dummy boy? Dummy boy? I'm a dummy boy? Wait, that's a great brand. So in Harvey's office, Lola hacks the Lichtenstein banks to find proof of Maslow's embezzlement, but they can't find anything and Harvey needs Louis' help. Okay, so Harvey asked Donna to help find Louis.

He won't ask Norma because she creeped him out. Um, so... I... I have a lot of memories of this scene. I loved this scene so much. Um, this is the scene where Donna says to Harvey... Oh, you're such a wuss. What did you just say to me? Mm-hmm.

And first of all, I'm not saying I did, but I'm also not saying I didn't take a lot of personal satisfaction from Donna telling Harvey that he's a wuss, but she also gets to like shush him while he waits while she's on the phone talking to Norma. Norma, where is he? What?

You're kidding. What? So she kidding. What? So she's super in charge of this moment, and what I love about it is that Gabriel brings this totally boyish side of Harvey to this, like, blip of a scene. I mean, he, like, comes in and sits on her desk and is cowering, scared of Norma.

And we have to assume that there's all this intimacy between the two of them because there's such a lack of status at play between Harvey and Donna, and this is where I needed direction. I was like, wait, hang on. Really? You guys want me to just shush him? Like, he's my boss. Tell him he's a wuss. You know, that was kind of a big step, I think. It seems really tiny,

but it totally reframed my idea of their relationship. That she's the one who's saying like, shh, I'm talking, or I'm listening to something, or I'm in charge of this moment, or like, what is wrong with you? That she's that person? Had you not shushed him or done things like that to him before this moment?

No, and I remember because it came up in the finale when we were shooting the finale of season one in a scene that has been cut, where she walks into a room and she says, what the hell is wrong with you? Like she walks in like that. And I remember being like, wow, like they have a history. Like she is not his employee.

They started out in a different place if she's somebody who starts out talking to him like that. And in this case, this was the first time where I was like, do you want me to just be like, hang on a second, please sir vibes? You know, like I'm on the phone with Norma and they're like, no, shh. And I was like, okay, great.

And Gabriel did so much to create that by coming in like the cowering boy who desperately needed Donna to call his mommy, who was Norma, and take care of it for him. It is a wonder as well, right? It is a wonder. It happens very quickly, it just. It was one of those scenes where somebody said,

we're just gonna do this quick, I think it might get cut. But it does file this under, you know, this is where Gabriel really on his side of the street made Donna who she was by coming in with a strong need and with low status. Quick reframe. Yeah. You made Donna who she was.

You don't need no man making Donna. Thanks. Look at me right here. Thanks, man. You made Donna. You look at me right,-making, Donna. Thanks. Look at me right here. Thanks, man. You made Donna. Look at me right, look right. There we go. Thanks, man.

You made Donna. And Erin as well. Thanks, Ren. And a room full of writers. Anyway, then we cut to Harvey finding Lewis where? At the gun range. Of course he does. Fitting for this episode to get Lewis getting some rage out

and him being a crack shot and wearing those glasses. Mm-hmm. This is a perfectly complicated scene, and that I love this scene. It's probably the scene of the episode for me, but I don't buy the setup of what's happening here. So I like love watching my guys do their thing. I love watching them pivot.

I love the setup. I love that they're doing it at a gun range, but I'm also a bit frustrated because I'm like, I know Harvey doesn't mean any of the things in the scene because he was just told he has to be here. I think what I wish for this scene was that our guy, Harvey, had made the understandable decision that he needs Louis. I will believe what he says in the scene

if Jessica says you need to fix this and Harvey goes, I gotta go to the one guy. I know that the one guy who can help me fix this is the guy who I've been fighting with this whole time. But there's something about Jessica forcing his hand to go that undercuts a bit what I want most from this scene, which is Harvey reckoning with the fact that Lewis is a really important and valuable part

of this equation and that he has a superpower that Harvey and Mike don't have and that they do need. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. And my experience of the scene was that it was there. It was actually a totally satisfying scene to me when I was watching it. And I think to me, it was just like human nature. I think that two things can always be true for Harvey, right?

He can have empathy and appreciation for Louis, and he can be totally pissed that he makes really bad choices. And I think that's when we start to really see what I think Aaron was after in all nine seasons, which is that they're like a family. It did move me. It did its job for me, I think, and I can see why it didn't for you.

I find that actually fascinating. It's like, am I the audience for this scene? You know, like we don't get everybody with every scene. Just like Godfather, I was just like, yeah. You know, and you're like, oh my God, we need to watch the Godfather. And I know that you're right. I'm just gonna need help probably,

cause I have, maybe I have resistance to those kinds of things. Like when you were talking about Pacino the other day and I was like, yeah, I just don resistance to those kinds of things. Like when you were talking about Pacino the other day and I was like, yeah, I just don't, those aren't my movies. Taxi driver. You don't like Al Pacino?

No, I love Al Pacino, but like taxi driver isn't something I'm gonna stop on when I'm clicking through. You know Al Pacino's not in Taxi Driver, right? Wait, what were we talking about? What was the taxi driver? We're not cutting this. What was the taxi driver? Robert De N cutting this. What was the taxi driver? Robert De Niro's the taxi driver.

Yeah, that's what I mean, sorry. Al Pacino is in, Hoo-ha! He's in Hoo-ha, yeah. Little known film. Yeah, and I'm not trying to say that those two actors are the same. I am tired, but you know what I'm saying?

Like some things are for some people and some things for other people. So like this scene was for me. Like it was really satisfying for me. I love that. I'm very happy that you were satisfied by this episode. I will never be satisfied. I'm gonna start singing Hamilton

if you keep saying satisfied though and nobody needs to hear that. Anyway, Louis displays his expertise as he, Mike and Harvey finally track down proof of Maslow's crimes. This is probably my favorite scene of the episode because finally we're through all of the mumbo jumbo and it's fun to watch the three, the three amigos hashing it out and we get to see why Lewis is, you know, the most important missing tool in this dynamic

for this particular case and he crushes it. And then Harvey and Lewis confront Maslow and the jig is up. You saw the look from Harvey at the end of that scene when they win. Harvey kind of looks at Lewis. I love that look he gives him. Three times. I think he does a triple take. And I think it's my impression that Harvey is responding to Lewis. Rick makes this choice all the time and I just love it so much. Whenever Lewis has a win,

Rick makes this choice that it's like, Lewis has funk music starting to play in his head. And like, he does this like teensy tiny, like, yeah, bobblehead like victory dance. And it's just like there was this whole journey for me on this like really subtle Lewis character development from like humiliation to like trying to be like the cool kid to, you know, shame to I'm a little boy who won, you know?

It's so sweet to me. Our guy won, he won one. Lola visits Mike hands him an authentic Harvard diploma instead of exposing his secret, she conceals it by hacking Harvard's database. This is one of the few props that I have. I love that, where is it? Where though, which room?

My office that I have, not in my home. Oh, that I have. I love that. Where is it? Where though? Which room? My office that I have, not in my home. Oh, that's great. You'll show me next time that I'm there. Mike and Rachel walk out together and we get another little Greek reference. They're going to make a joke about going to Greece together. Oh, I also checked out her butt. Did you see that? Yeah. Do you want to? Yeah, you did. I checked out her butt. What? Did you see that? Yeah do you want to do you want to yeah you did. I checked out her butt that was weird. Yeah that was weird was that a statute of limitations? Do you think you were directed to do that? Probably. I don't know I'm I don't I wouldn't necessarily want to put that on anybody else I might have done it thinking it was funny I don't know. This whole relationship had not been sexualized or romanticized at all. It had been like two people who were helping each other out. So to throw that in

at the last minute was like, what? This hasn't been that. Why are we doing that? Yeah. It's a really good point. And then Rachel and Mike walk out together. I miss Rachel in this episode. I always miss our characters who aren't more a part of the episode. I do too and I think it's so great that we get to, you know? I think it's so good for the characters. You know what they say about absence. What do they say?

Something about hearts growing more fond. I was going to make a dirty joke, but I didn't. So that's the end of the episode. Yeah. That's it. We did it. Well, honorable mentions. My honorable mention is Louis Slitt, as always. He just runs away with it, breaks our hearts, makes us laugh, makes us cry.

And also the Louis Harvey combination. I love watching the two of them together. It opens up that gear of this show, which is like, oh, I wanna see them, I wanna see how they are gonna grow and tackle cases together when they need to. The, what I loved most about this episode was our friend Rick and just what a teacher he is.

Honestly, still a lot of times I just am acting and I'm on set and I think what would Rick Hoffman do in this moment and how much could I get away with? So that's my big takeaway from the episode. I heartily agree with you about the fact that this was just an incredible Rick Hoffman performance. And I will even say that maybe it's helpful that it wasn't our most favorite storyline,

which means there aren't a whole lot of bells and whistles going on, so we cannot be distracted from how magnificent Rick's work is because that work alone is laid bare. It's just all about what a gift he is to this show. I think I have a little bit of a quibble, speaking of bells and whistles, were there a lot of needle drops or were there

less needle drops this time? Yeah, there were none that jumped out to me. Uh-huh. I think I missed them. I usually write them down in my notes and I didn't. No, well, Kristen's saying here there were only two and they weren't there until the end of the episode. So maybe we also missed them.

Like we missed the energy of those and we'll see on the next one if we have more of the episode. So maybe we also miss them. Like we miss the energy of those and we'll see on the next one if we have more of them back. I know we had a lot in the previous episode, so maybe that was just a budgetary restriction and it's just showing us that we need more of our cool music. All right, how many god damn do you think we had? Sarah? Oh, oh, sorry. I thought you were talking to Kristen. I don't, Sarah, Kristen knows how many we have. How many god damn's do I think we had? I don't remember any, so I'm just gonna say one. I'm gonna say two.

Well, if we're going by Price is Right rules, you both lose. It's zero. Unless... Zero. It's zero. Unless. Zero. It's zero, however. Again. There is one in the script that was not said on screen. It's interesting, we might be approaching the moment

where on set we were starting to quibble about God Dams. So early, huh? Which is funny because there was a reaction to God Dams in the world, right? As the show started playing, which that hadn't happened yet, it happened on this episode, but there was a reaction to God damn in the world, right? We were, as the show started playing, which that hadn't happened yet, it happened on this episode, but there was a moment when we started hearing from the world that they were potentially

a little excessive and it became a conversation. But I think before that even happened, maybe what we're experiencing in the show is a resistance from actors. And I think Gabriel had to do a lot of the heavy lifting of the God damn. But I think Gabriel had to do a lot of the heavy lifting of the god damns. But I think people were starting to ask if they had to say it so much.

So I wonder if maybe you saying that there's one in the script, but it wasn't said on screen makes me think that maybe there was some pushback and we were trying to see if we could get away with not saying them as much. Also guys, do you see, I don't trust my instincts. I said, I don't remember any, so I'm gonna say one. This happened to me last week.

This is my journey. I just gotta go with my gut and I will win the goddamn game. Well, I have another opportunity for you because in the notes that we made, Patrick asked for a count on the Lichtensteins. Also, I have that as well. How many Lichtensteins do we have?

Oh, can I? Oh, wait, I want a second on that. I want a second on that. I think six. I'm going to, I was going to say six. So I'll say five just to go under. Is it seven? It's seven.

Sarah, you win. You win this time. Nobody goes to Lchtenstein for pleasure. That's a lot of Liechtensteins. Her Sarah's reaction is not as jubilant as I wanted it to be. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm just...

You won. You won. You know why it wasn't? It wasn't because I was going to get back to Liechtenstein being a safety word, and then it was going to get real dirty. And I was like, I just got to stop. I got to stop. Save it for the bathtub, Rafferty. That's it. That it for the bathtub, Rafferty.

That's it. That was an interesting journey. That's it, case closed on Identity Crisis. Guys, thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next week when we jump into yet another episode of Suits. Thanks so much for joining us. Bye.

Thanks, Sarah. Bye. Bye. Thank you all so much for sending in your questions. Please keep them coming to Sidebar Podcast at SiriusXM.com. We love hearing your feedback and we're grateful to you for joining us each and every week. And please make sure to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. It's such a great way to support the show and help us all out. So come back next week. We can't wait to talk to you again soon.

Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams and Sirius XM Media. Our senior producer is Kimi Gregory and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader. Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez and our music is by Brendan Burns. Our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin Anderson.