Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast - Pilot Pt. 2

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

This week, Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty walk us through the second part of the Suits pilot. They share memories of attending the Golden Globes (and who Sarah has a sanctioned crush on), discuss which iconic actor Patrick is channeling in the pilot, point out what Suits "codes" already appear in this first episode, debate if Mike can look cool in a bike helmet, and more.  Email us a voice memo of your questions about Suits at [e-mail]. We may use it on the show!Follow us on Instagram & TikTok - @suitssidebarGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/sidebar

All right, let's get started. Hi there. My name is Sarah Rafferty. And I am Patrick J. Adams, J for Juvial. Let's get serious. Hi, I'm Patrick J. Adams. I play Mike Ross on Suits. And I'm Sarah Rafferty, and I play Donna Paulson on Suits.

And you are listening to Sidebar, a Suits Watch podcast. Sarah, I have two words for you today. Absolutely beautiful. Categorically stunning. That's what you are in that green sweater. Really hot. Ladies and gentlemen, Sarah Rafferty. How are you today?

We're going to do that every day, right? Find a quote and I just compliment you. Yeah, I don't care about the quotes. I do that every day anyway. What are we doing here? What are we here to do today? Well, we are doing the second episode of what we are calling our Suits Watch podcast, because this is actually the first time that you and I are watching Suits in its entirety.

And obviously today in this episode, we're going to be discussing part two of the Suits pilot. We broke it into two pieces because it was an epic 81-minute journey. And because the first part, the first 30 minutes, felt like the perfect prologue. It felt like it was a 30-minute scene that introduced us to the world that Mike is leaving and the one he is diving into. And it was so beautifully done. In this second part of the episode, I think we really lock into what the show is, which is a legal show. And we get into the case of the week, especially as Aaron mentioned, this was really procedural in the first season. So we get to see our team diving into their first case.

Should we just do it? Yeah. Can you tell us what this part of the episode's about? Give us a little summary. Sure. Let's call it. We're calling the brief right now because that's a creative legal pun. I'll give you the brief. We're still season one, episode one. This episode title is Pilot. It was initially aired on June 23rd, 2011, directed by none other than Kevin Bray, written by Aaron Koresh. Our DP was Jim Deneau, who I think is an important mention, created the vibe of the show.

In this part of the episode, Mike starts work at Pearson Hardman, where he meets Louis Litt, a petulant yet sharp junior partner, Donna Paulson, Harvey's charming, quick-witted secretary, and Rachel Zane, a talented, beautiful paralegal with a chip on her shoulder. And then, of course, Jessica Pearson, the powerful, no-nonsense senior partner who was also Harvey's mentor. Harvey pawns off to Mike a pro bono case to help a single mother in a sexual harassment suit. With the help of Rachel, Mike uncovers an essential witness who the opposition eventually bullies into silence. Harvey galvanizes a frustrated Mike

and uncovers the witness tampering scheme from their opposition, winning the case for the single mother. Harvey and Mike are now a proven winning combination. Dynamic duo. Bromance, bromance, bromance. So before we dive in, you have any opening statements about this episode? No, sir. No, absolutely not. You don't have anything to talk about? Remember, I did not play a lawyer on the show. You know, people in the real world ask me if I learned anything about law. I don't know a thing about law. I'll speak for myself, but I felt like I was doing this. I was

just like, am I winning or losing this scene? Are we winning or losing? And I'm embarrassed to admit that. I wish I was the kind of actor that was like rolling up my sleeves with every detail, but honestly, you just can't. I have to tell you, I had a sneaky, mean feeling a little bit. No, it wasn't mean at all. You can be mean. But no, while I was on the show, I was secretly like, thank God. Oh, yeah. I'm not a lawyer. And I thought when we got here that I was going to be able to just have you explain all the law to me. No, no, no. We are going to have to figure it out together. That's going to be a part of the show is figuring out what on earth is actually going on. There was some bad karma, though, with my super happy quietly to myself that I didn't have any law

stuff, which was that the first job that I got after we finished doing Suits was to play a transplant surgeon. I'm about to go off and play an FBI agent right now. There's a lot of, it's just all jargon. Wait, what's your outfit going to be like? It's an 80s FBI agent. Oh, come on. I'm a little nervous because men's hair in the 80s, unless you were like a rock star, was not cool. Wait, who says this guy isn't also a rock star? I love your attitude.

Did you pitch that? I love your attitude. One thing that occurred to me watching this that I just wanted to say from the beginning was I didn't understand how much my performance as Mike Ross was basically just ripping off Michael J. Fox. I mean, I was a Michael J. Fox fan as a kid growing up in the 80s. We all were. But like the way that I'm bouncing around the firm and like always tripping into a scene and like dropping files and just like this fish out of water thing, it was not intentional,

but I'm watching it and thinking, oh my God, this is like every Michael J. Fox. I think specifically the movie I'm thinking of is The Secret of My Success. Is that the one where he like gets a job at someone's firm? He's literally working at like a firm and he's having to make it up and pretend he knows what he's doing. I think I might have just ripped it off all of that because every scene I'm just like falling into, running after someone, trying to figure out where I'm supposed to go. Is there a better actor to be an homage to? I don't think so. And I think again, like it was he he was such a foundational for me as,

you know, as a young kid in the eighties, he was one of the first people that made me realize like, oh, you can be an actor. So it makes sense that, you know, not only would I try and emulate him in general, but that I would do this sort of first big giant role and it fits perfectly. He's such a fish out of water. And I feel like Michael J. Fox excelled at that. Yeah. I have one other thing to say, and maybe this is the place to bring it up. I have a theory. I have a theory that Suits is a predecessor to another very popular show. I'm smiling quietly. Do you know what show I'm thinking of? I have an idea of where you're going. I think that Suits walked so that Succession could run. I love Succession as we all do. An amazing show. Let me run you through the things

that we have in common. Dagmara, she was in Succession. She was in Suits. Rob Yang. Do you know who Rob Yang was in our show? Tell me more. The doctor in this episode where he's giving Mike the drug test. Where else is Rob Yang? Oh, that was a great scene. Gosh, he's in Succession? The pilot of Succession. He's the guy who owns the tech company that Kendall Roy's trying to buy right from the beginning. We have Kevin Bray, who directed many episodes, directed our pilot and was the producing director of two seasons of our show, directed countless episodes, arguably responsible for the look and vibe of the whole thing. He also directed many episodes of Succession. And then just in general, the theme of the show. It's in New York. We're dealing with New York power brokers,

people moving and shaking at the highest levels of New York society. So, you know, this is going to be a running theme for me, but I do believe that there is some connection between Suits and Succession. They were sitting in a radically different place than we were at the Golden Globes, though. Yeah. Well, you know, they got to be the grown up. We're a bit of the PG version. No, listen, Gina and I were having a little bit of an illicit, quiet conversation about my sanctioned crush. On? No, listen, everybody's married. Everybody's married. Cousin Greg. Well, no, I'm happy to start one on Cousin Greg. That's fine. This is all for our succession pod. I realize we're going to do a completely different succession pod.

It's going to run concurrently. But wait, since you were asking me about my crush, my crush, it rhymes with McSchmatty. Why don't we get into our show, though, Suits? I am ready. Are we diving right in? Let me walk us through it first. We begin Mike's first day at Pearson Hardman, that epic shot.

We talked a bit about it last time. It's one of our first great needle drops of the show, airborne toxic event changing as Mike Ross comes out from the subway. He's on his way into the lobby of Pearson Hardman that we see for the very first time. Well, no, no, no. It's not the first time we've seen it with Harvey before. Oh, did we see the sign? I don't know if we saw it.

We just need to acknowledge how many times that sign is going to change in the years ahead. It's the first of many. But we get to see Mike walk into the lobby. He has a great, I actually love that interaction with the secretary. Again, just foundational. Mike has no idea where he's going or what he's supposed to do or what direction. And I think it's autobiographical a little bit with Aaron. He talked about how everybody in the investment banking world was afraid of the executive

assistants. I'm sure. That there was always that vibe and that he experienced that. And like I talked about, you know, I just kept embracing this whole process for myself as an actor and the way that I embraced the audition, which was like, you know what, just give me this job. I'll just do a good job. I will work as hard as I can. Then as soon as I got there, I got to just be afraid of everything. And I didn't have to pretend I was not afraid of everything. I got to, you know, show up to set every day and be like, don't pretend you're not nervous. I don't have to try and be cooler or more together or no, because Mike has no idea what he's doing. I had to try to be something that I was.

Because you had, it was your world. Certainly not. But I have to say, she waves that I was. Because you had, it was your world. Certainly not. But I have to say, she waves you away. And I think she was a redhead, by the way, hat tip to her. She waves you away and then you go and you see the window and your response to seeing the window. Which was very real. I mean, when I first, before we started shooting, I remember getting up there.

I did that same thing, which was just walk up to that window and be like, oh my God, this view. I've never been to New York a lot, but I guess I haven't been to buildings with that view before, I guess. I was quite overwhelming. Top of the CN Tower. Yeah, but in New York, it's different. You get to see like Central Park and it's New York, you know, it's New York. But I felt like there was a four-year-old boy that kind of tipped his body, his upper body towards the window and like walked over like, what is this?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was so endearing. Of course, this is the scene where we meet one of our most important main characters, Rachel Zane, comes up behind Mike and introduces herself. And we get to see the beginning of that relationship, which... Before we dive into that scene. Yeah. When did you meet Megan?

Oh, so Megan and I had done a pilot before, a terrible, terrible pilot together. I won't even say the name of it, but you can IMDb it. There was a setting up of a romantic relationship in the pilot of that particular pilot too. And then we never saw each other again. The pilot failed. It was terrible and went away. And so we had never seen each other nor spoken to each other again and then i saw her at the call but i was in there because i was the first to be cast for this show so when i went in to do the chemistry reads with rachel she was right there and she said hi and i went oh my god so good to see you and so i think our just knowing each other and getting to like calm down and not have those

nerves of just getting to know one another really helped that chemistry read and it was just clear clear that we had an easygoing thing when we went into that room. And it was pretty clear, if I remember correctly, that she was going to get the part from the minute we did the chemistry read. It was just so much easier than it was with anybody else. Was the scene this scene? It was this scene and the next one where she walks Mike through the whole office. Yes, yes. That's a bear of an audition scene. It's a big one. And she crushed it. She crushed it and she crushes it in the show. So here we meet them. One of my favorite lines in the show, maybe in the whole series, I love you,

whispered as she walks away. That is a very popular meme, right? I love that. Yeah. And in general, I just love that scene. I think it's a really strong beginning for her character. I just love her. Like, what is her first line? I forget what she says. She's like, great, you've hit on me. I just think it really like gives her some ownership of the space his new title being scraped off of his office door. And we meet Teddy Kaluka playing the janitor. We're going to go back and we're going to watch everything. And there's like 75 titles on his IMDb page. Teddy, wherever you are, God bless you. Well, you can tell because the man is a professional.

It is such a good scene. Everything about it, the writing, which I looked at the script and it is word for word that what was written. There was no improvising. And Gabriel's really good in it, too. It's this like one scene where this very powerful Harvey Specter almost looks like a little boy. It's so great. And I think what it does is it also sets up kind of this what I've been calling like these codes, these like suits codes, these things that will return to these things that make suits suits. And it is Kevin Br bray our director it was one of his oners where it's just yeah we never won

shot and all that is happening because you get to stay on everybody's face the whole time and you got both of them in frame and then the stuff that's happening behind them and then donna pops in and she's off. But they always win. From there, obviously, Harvey is realizing that he's lost his promotion. So he goes back to Jessica's office, which begins with just a classic suitsism. It's in this whole sequence, which is this sequence is, again, Kevin Bray, Aaron Korsh, brilliance. The him walking into Jessica's office, Jessica telling him that he's got to pull it together. He comes in to fire Mike. Mike puts him in his place. He goes back to Jessica's office.

Jessica says, you got to take this pro bono if you want me to trust you. Don't you dare pawn it off on someone. Folder flies through the air into my hands, pawned off on me, and we're away at the races. That sequence is just so well-directed and so tight from beginning to end. Okay, so when Harvey first enters Jessica's office, she's, did you notice this? She's working with this huge legal book. So that's the thing, what we've all done on Suits, which is like, what can I be doing? Because sometimes we're just sitting at a desk, and it's like, I've done this a few times. Maybe I could be up on my feet. Maybe I could be doing this and this, and we'd always have these like ornate legal books. Yeah. And sometimes Kevin Bray would say,

grab that book behind you and like put it back or whatever. That'd be great to know if it was a Kevin Bray or it was a Jessica. But the great thing is that it was a real book. I mean, I've gone to grab something and it was like a shoebox painted like. But it always begs the question is like, what is the head of the firm looking for in the giant leather bound book? I need to know. I need to know what. And I do want to say, because we had such amazing set deck people and such amazing props people. So they put in such an effort to make our props as real as they could possibly be. Somebody who worked in one of those design departments was like, I'm so glad I got that big box of big law books so that somebody at some point will open it. Sometimes you'll open that stuff and it won't actually be a law book either.

It'll be some other thing. You'll like go thumbing through it and it's actually like gibberish. I have to tell you a story. I'm just thinking of this just now is that when Donna finally gets an office, which I don't think is a terrible spoiler. I remember when they were designing my office and when I finally went in there and kind of knocked around, I was actually so moved by everything that the props and the set deck department had decided would be like on my shelves in this space and how thoughtful it was and sweet. I mean, I think there were books of sonnets. Yeah. I feel like your office and Louis Litt's office, Louis had a lot of good Easter

eggs in that office too. Yeah. And I did walk out with like one or two little things. Like I still have the birds that were on her desk. We'll inform the authorities. They were $5. They still have their price tag on them. We're fine. Anyway, I just think this sequence, like I said, is just perfection. I think it's really funny. I think it's great to watch Mike outsmart Harvey to be like, okay, you're going to fire me. That's not great. But also if you do that, I'm going to make your life miserable. And then Harvey kind of respect that and take that power move back to Jessica. And then he tries to pull the same thing with her and she goes to the window and has that look like. We're getting into the position where we're really setting up that like these people can do some serious maneuvering

and it just makes each one of them respect each other more. Yeah. So then is there a scene where you guys talk about suits? Oh, he hands me the pro bono and I say. Don't say it. Can we play that? Easy clearance time. Let's just go meet the client.

Hey, didn't I tell you to get some better suits? I spent $500. For how many suits? Five. What? Um, exhibit A. Wait a minute. You are funny.

Wait, what is the, no, no, no. This is legitimately my ego won't let it happen. What is the thing that I did that's funniest in that scene to you? Like, what do you think is funny? Okay. Which is the part? Break it down for me. Because I think you are a comic genius and I want to learn from you. So you tell me what's funny about that scene to you? Like, what do you think's funny? Okay, there's a lot of funny in there. Break it down for me, because I think you are a comic genius, and I want to learn from

you, so you tell me what's funny about that. Oh, my goodness, no. I need this reinforcement, because I want to continue trying to be an actor in the world, and I need to know what works and what doesn't work, so I'm happy to hear that. Timing, and look, you can't necessarily, yes, there's techniques to get the timing right, and there are coaches who can help us with those things. But that's an instinct for timing and truthfulness. Hang on. Funny is grounded in...

I'm speaking. No, no, no. I appreciate this. I'm taking what I'm asking. You are a dog who is looking away. I am making you look me in the eye. You cannot keep looking away. I'm owning it.

Here we are. I'm owning it. You can learn the technique of funny, but that's also the instinct. I am not the boss of funny. I don't know a lot, but I know that that made me laugh and that that is just sheer timing.

And it's rooted in character work. It was perfect. Here's what I think might be a good part of what we can get out of this is helping each other through the moments. No. I love you so much. Wait, wait, let's do it.

I love you. Were we all good on mine? Yours isn't on. We're not recording any of my audio. All right. Welcome back from the break. We are moving into act any of my audio. All right. Welcome back from the break. We are moving into Act Two of Part Two. We pick up with Mike meeting his first client, Nancy, the incredible Dagmara Domenchik, who

was just amazing in this episode. How lucky were we to have her? So incredible. I remember being floored by her the first time I watched it. She's amazing. She's so good. So Mike meets Nancy in the park. We learn about the case. We learn about what's happened to her and it's pulled on Mike's heart

strings. And he obviously wants to help and make sure that Charles Hunt is punished for what he's done. We cut to the hot dog stand, an important moment in Suits history. The stand goes on to play an important role in the show. It's something I think that we talked about calling maybe standards and practices, something that is introduced in an episode and goes on to sort of live through the fabric of the show, which a hot dog cart or a bagel cart or some sort of baked good cart or coffee cart does from time to time. And Harvey says, I'm not about caring. I'm about winning. Definitely laying some important suits pipe there. That's like a code. Yep. But

you know what? Mike's going to teach him to care, I think. We'll see. Also, one of my favorite moments from the pilot when Mike goes to reach for the lock on his bike. What are you doing? Don't touch that. As if the idea of touching a bicycle in New York City is so unfathomably disgusting. It's just great. And then that great moment that we found where Mike yanks on the lock anyway. So from there, we get upstairs into the building. We follow Harvey and Mike and we meet for the first real time. We've met Donna, but this is a good.

Yeah. We get some more time with Donna. Yeah. Donna's unfolding in this episode in a different way, like we talked about last time. And, you know, think it actually is like an amazing thing to set up Donna it's like that scene we'll talk about later like where he says like I'm gonna get fired because they're gonna find out that you didn't really go to Harvard and she goes what and you don't even see you in a perfect world we'd see you and follow your experience but the setup that like you're just there you are always there and you hear everything and you know everything.

It actually kind of like does a service to the character moving forward. It's like it's a weird establishment and one that maybe I'm not sure you're like totally happy with or would have been happy with in the moment. But I think it like creates a mystique around Donna. There was plenty in the script to do all the backstory on. There were plenty of hints to be like, why is this an absolute in their relationship or an absolute in her character? And figure that out and who they were to each other. You're left wanting more with all the characters in this show, but with Donna specifically, you're really left wanting more. And I think that's a cool place to start a show with. This whole scene that we are seeing was one that was supposed to be through an intercom.

So she wasn't supposed to be there. All the handing off of the card and he's handing the paperwork and you're giving him things to sign and you're giving me the card. You mean all this sequence? No. So I wasn't supposed to be there. But I think Kevin and Gabriel decided that I would be there and I was there that day. Right. Just even like letting us have some of the little buttons. They stayed in. Right. And one of them was that was harsh. That was a little harsh. Which is a weird button. I want to get into that because it's a very weird moment to me. I like it. But it's like everybody has been so harsh on the show. And then he says this thing about the skinny tie. And it's like we've suddenly crossed a line. And I'm not sure what line we crossed. It was his tone for being like, you're a reflection of me and you got to be this.

Oh, OK. Just being hard on him. But I also think it was about saying to Harvey, kind of get over yourself. You know, that you see really immediately that she's a little bit like, oh, come on. Was that totally necessary? That was a little harsh. Right, right, right. And what was great was Gabriel's response as Harvey.

Which he kind of takes it. He loved it. Yeah, like he listens to you. No, that he was like, okay, cool. I'm so glad I was harsh. Oh, that's how you took it. I read it a little bit like he, yes, like I enjoyed it, but I'm also hearing you.

If anyone else had called me out, I would just be like, no, nevermind. But because you said it, it's actually going to make me think for a minute. Oh, okay. So that's interesting. That's what's so fun about things is that everybody has a different interpretation. But I linked it back

to when he said, do I look like a pimp in this suit? Right. And I didn't have a response in the script, but I said, yeah, a little bit. Right. Yeah. And his response was the same kind of thing. Nice. He was like, all right, I look like a pimp. All right. So from there, we go into a small room at a law firm, Lewis and Mike, and we get to watch Lewis fire an associate in front of Mike. This is my favorite scene, Patrick. Hands down. I think we're in agreement. I think this is just such magic. I think, well, first of all, like, you know, we haven't really gotten into Rick Hoffman yet. I think Rick Hoffman might be one of my favorite actors in the world. And it's precisely for some of the things that he does in this scene. So many actors would want to luxuriate in the horrible dickishness of any given situation. And he can just go against an idea and he can play something so simply and it makes it so much more scary and vile

and terrifying and threatening. From the minute I remember shooting this scene and I remember sitting across from this guy and being like, I think he might be a genius. And I'm legitimately terrified of him. Okay. Yes. Terrified of his genius. Terrified like I got to keep up with this guy. He is so joyful and so relaxed in how he oozes through it.

And he reminded me of Alan Rickman. And I can't pay. Yes, yes, yes. I cannot pay a higher compliment. Yeah. I can't. No, it can't. It doesn't go above that. And I have to say that Rick is so relaxed

and taking his time in this episode. In the whole episode. In the whole thing. He just kind of got his hands in his pockets and, you know, walks out like, oh, hey Mike, come with me. Yeah, yeah. So calm. And there's something simmering. Yeah. But it's so fun.

And so we love him right away. And what was great about it being in this pilot was those first few seconds that you guys are sitting at the table looking at each other. I watched it several times. I didn't count how many seconds it was, but we could never do that again because of the time constraints of suits. Every little second had to come out. Every extra second had to come out. Every extra second had to come out of those transitions. But you sat there quietly. So can you take me back? I mean, what you're seeing is legitimately what's happening. I'm like, how is this man

giving this performance? Well, I also loved the Gary Lipsky. You'll see my favorite moment for me in the scene is that little wave to Gary Lipsky. Just that little like, I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry, dude. I'm sorry, bud. Okay. It was nice to meet. Okay. I love that moment. All right. Then we are at the firm's elevators and we have Harvey and Jessica and we get a first huge fashion moment of the show. Jessica is dressed to impress.

She's going out for the night and Harvey is obviously impressed. I don't know the first thing about fashion, but I know she looks like a billion dollars. I really wonder if that was the seed that was planted to make the show become the fashion show that it was. And look, the whole episode, I did notice the clothes and that they were different than what the clothes became. Just so people know, when you shoot a pilot, too, like you only have a limited amount of money and, you know, you're not buying Tom Ford suits. You're having to make do with, you know, what you can to try and make sure that your show works before people are willing to spend that kind of money on things. So it's a different vibe. Yeah. The next morning, we're at Donna's desk, Donna and Harvey.

Donna once again anticipates and meets Harvey's needs. That's one of my favorite lines in the episode is the, you just completing a sentence. We were married. Yeah, we were actually married seven years ago. We've been married for the last seven years. Great. Great. Genius.

Again, you do so much with not a lot in this episode. You just build that relationship so much between the two of you. Thank you. Was that all scripted? Like that's all scripted? How much of that was you? That was all scripted. But I do think I feel like I remember people asking us about in press, like asking about

the Donna Harvey relationship. And I do think that they saw that Gabriel and I are really comfortable with each other and had known each other for a long time and eventually sort of wrote more towards that. But I do think some of that was there in the pilot, maybe. And that's what helped Donna to continue on? Again, feeding into the theme, I think we kept discussing here, like your comfortability with Gabriel to just make scenes like that, where you're just playing off each other that much easier to find. You don't have a lot of time when you're shooting a pilot. You have like three takes tops to like get a scene. And if you're two people that are like just getting to know each other, then it's just harder to find that kind of rhythm. That's really funny and easy. And like, oh, we both know what the scene is. Let's go. And I think a place like this is a perfect example of how you guys just like fly off each other. It's instant. So from there, we're into Harvey's office. Harvey and Mike are discussing the sexual harassment case. We're walking down the hall. I think that's a walk and talk if I remember right.

That is a walk and talk. We've got a lot of these. This walk and talk I really liked because it had my favorite line, which was not a line. What's that? Oh. There we go. Can we roll the audio, please? Oh, my bad. I keep forgetting you don't actually know anything. Can we turn that into my ringtone, please? You know what's funny? I think I might have this part because of that moment. I don't know why, but I'm remembering.

We had the interview scene in the audition, and we had this scene in the audition, I think. And I remember like one of the biggest laughs I got was that fake laugh. I remember, I think Aaron got such a kick out of it. So I don't know if I'm remembering that wrong, but I have a feeling it played a big part in me getting to play this role. So yes, I appreciate that call out. I can recognize that. I think that's funny. That makes me laugh. I can find that. It's hard to say, but I can find that funny. Mike rushes back to Rachel, another run up, and it says he needs help. He learns that Rachel has an office. He's jealous. And then we get this kind of great sequence between Rachel and Mike where they're studying together, trying to figure

out. Now, this is where I need to track the legal stuff, right? Oh, I'm out. I'm asleep. I'm on the floor. No, I'm laying face down. No, no, no, but it's important. It's important. It's important. We have a woman. She has been sexually harassed. She was told that if you don't sleep, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, just please. Charles Hunt says, if you don't sleep with me, then you're going to be fired. She says, I'm not going to sleep with you. She has fired, right? Now she needs help. They want to subpoena all the records that the women have left in the hopes that they might find another woman who's gone through what this woman's gone through, a sort of corroborating witness or somebody else. See, you are clarifying it for me. That's great. So that's what's happening.

There's going to be a hearing the next day because they're going to fight me on giving us these records. And so I rushed to Rachel to say, you got to help me. I don't know what to do with this hearing in order to get these records. Correct. That's where we're at. I'm rushing up to Rachel. Now, if we're going to jump a little bit ahead. That turned into you guys having edamame, and that's my takeaway. But I think it's good for us to know contextually what's also happening in the case. Yeah, and this is your job. What it all gets to, and I'm going to jump ahead, but at the hearing, we obviously win

because Mike and Harvey win. And then Mike finds a thousand boxes in his office, right? Remember that moment where they're going to drown you in paperwork? Classic Suits moment. Okay, so the hearing. Go to the hearing. Yeah, and that hearing, I did not understand it. All I cared about, I'm going to tell you what I was told to focus on from my little brain,

was that judge and his bailiff and the really interesting dry performance from the guy who played the judge about his bailiff. I thought it was really funny and watched it a few times. I watched it so many times. Literally, I had to watch this like 25 times because I do what you do. I just want to focus on the relationships, but I had to be like, what is happening in this case? Because sometimes you arrive at a moment where you go, huh? Wait a minute. And this is the moment I'm getting to. When I get to the thousand boxes in which they're burying me in paperwork, that means that all those Sometimes you arrive at a moment where you go, huh? Wait a minute. And this is the moment I'm getting to. When I get to the thousand boxes in which they're burying me in paperwork, that means that all those boxes are the subpoena documents referring to the women who have left the firm under potentially mysterious circumstances, which means hundreds of thousands of women

have left this firm under mysterious circumstances. I can't be. Well, what are those boxes? What matters? My little brain says all that matters is they bury him in paperwork. Like that's the point. And that we need to learn that Mike can move through paperwork really fast and efficiently. And he likes cheese in his crust. He loves cheese in his crust.

And that Rachel is an equal dynamo. And she understands research and she teaches him about that. And she likes sushi. But she can't take tests. And you know who can? That guy. That guy. Where are we? I think we can jump back to Harvey and his investigator, Vanessa. Oh, Julie Ann Emery. That was a great scene. You just want to lean in every time the camera's on her. She crushes it. And I think it really establishes Harvey's relationship with women, powerful women that kind of don't want him, but also don't want to totally not want him.

But she's fantastic in that scene. I just want to say your eyebrows got jaunty in a way that I've never seen them jaunt before. Really? Yeah. Look, I'm excited. Most importantly, we get through this case with the hearing. We get all the files. Our guys are on their way.

Mike gets to experience his first big win in court, which we see he's very excited. Mike and Harvey are on their way to the next stage of trying to make sure this pro bono comes out in their way. They have a good godfather back and forth along the way. Yep. Our guys are winning. How long are they going to win for?

How long can they be winning? We'll find out after this break. Okay, welcome back. We are at a very important scene. I'm really excited to talk about this scene. I know you're excited about to talk about this scene. I'll tell you what it is. It's Mike walks into the suit shop, which call back to when you saw the business card

before I forgot to mention. Do you know what the name of the suit shop is? No, I do not. Deneau Bray. Oh, there we go. We saw it on the business card when Harvey or you know what the name of the suit shop is? No, I do not. Deneau Bray. Oh, there we go. We saw it on the business card when Harvey or you handed me the suit business card. Jim Deneau, Kevin Bray,

DP and director of the episode, Easter Egg. So I really want to talk about this scene for two reasons. One is I'm very excited because my classmate from drama school, Mark Dold, plays Renee, the tailor. And was that just a coincidence or did you have something to do

with him being in that room? I did not have anything to do with him being there. He's just a fantastic actor. It was so fun to shoot that scene. He was so great. He was one of those people

that just like knew it right off the bat. He was my first roommate in New York. Oh, no way. We were in school for three. There were only 16 people in our class.

So we were all very, very close. Conservatory program. You know what that means. I know how close that is. He was fantastic. And I think the scene is hilarious. I think he's so good.

What's his first line? Sorry, we don't sell skinny jeans at this location. Perfect. Perfect. But let's talk about this scene. I think this might be a scene that hasn't aged well. Would you agree? Yes, this was a thing for me, too.

Maybe the measuring of the inseam, the handing of a glass of booze and the inseam and the large joke. I was a little cringed by it. But again, you know, we're always going to run into this show, and I'm always like, well, that doesn't feel like it ages well. But then I'm also like, this is a show about these kinds of people. There's something about seeing Mike in that world and him sort of like kind of taken with it,

but then he didn't go with it. That's like kind of useful to see him like trying to like, can I be this kind of guy? No, it's not very comfortable for me. I want to get out of here. And he leaves the suit shop. There's something useful to that. But I felt, I did feel the same way you did,

that as soon as we had this sort of in-scene measuring moment and watching her walk away i felt a little weird yeah i think um we could have stayed on you watching her walk away rather than like followed yeah yeah of course another great needle drop heading into this was uh it's something we're calling the greenback boogie award until we find a better name for it oxford comma by vampire weekend so mike gets out of the suit shop because it's not for him. And we get a few scenes with Mike's former best friend, Trevor. The takeaway, Mike is still holding onto the weed from the first half of the pilot. Maybe it's his backup plan.

And also Trevor's girlfriend, Jenny, seems like she might be a little bit into Mike. Then Mike goes into research mode and learns that someone is missing from the mountains of paperwork Charles Hunt sent over. Mike tracks down this person. It's Joanna Webster, played by the lovely Kristen Bush. A fun fact about this scene, I think it was the first scene I shot of Suits. Oh, really? Yeah, I pulled up the one-liner, which I can't believe I still have in my email, from a Legal Mind pilot shoot. And my first day on set was this scene. Wow. Yeah.

And were you in Brooklyn? Were you in Queens? Good question. I think we were in Manhattan. I think it was somewhere in Manhattan, but I don't remember. All a bit of a blur at that point. I was happy to watch it and not feel like it was the first scene that I shot. Do you know what I mean? When I realized that, I was like, I was really looking for scared, nervous actor vibe. Like, oh God, he doesn't know what he was doing. And I was happy to, I didn't feel like I was relaying nervous actor vibe. He doesn't know what he's doing. Not that there was much for Mike to do in this scene. Well, and then it gets real fun because you get to go back to report to Harvey your success, right?

Yes. Mike brags to Harvey about being a good lawyer. It's one of those beautiful nighttime scenes that Aaron was talking about last time, the office. It's just so beautiful at night. It was always my favorite time to shoot scenes in there, even when we moved on to a set. Yeah. And I'm coming into the episode. And this is funny. I did read the script in the script. This scene is different. I do some weird song. It was me singing. And now I can realize why I changed it because I was like, I have no idea how I'm going to do this. It says Mike sings sings a little song, testify, testify. I got her to testify. Oh, wow. Okay. And as an actor, I don't know how I would do that today. Let's try it now. No, come on. No, no, no. We'll put

that on our social media. We'll have me try and do it. I couldn't, I literally couldn't do it. Last night I was with Troy and watching the episode. Testify. Testify. Testify. Testify. So that's why it changed. It also changed not just in that way, though. It changed in that I walk in in the script and I'm like, I did it. I got her to testify.

And in this we do a fun like, I trick him at first. We call that a mislead. I throw him off track and I make him believe that I failed. And then I actually dropped the bomb that I got her to testify by showing her that I cared for her. Cue the guns. So we got the guns. But not only that, Mike is on his way out of the office when yet again, Jessica in another wicked suit, that power suit. She's wearing a power suit in this one. It's like the opposite of the dress. I don't know why. Again, i know nothing about fashion so i'll just she looks amazing in everything but what's interesting is that you're like oh i loved that suit and i gotta tell you it's not a

thing i we we went so far i think it's just seeing her in a suit because i feel like jessica wore dresses forever after this. I don't remember seeing her. So I remember. So this is a gray suit. So what's great about it is it's a three-piece suit. So that echoes a little bit of what Harvey wears. Yeah. Am I wrong in that she also just doesn't wear a lot of suits in this show after this?

Like, I don't remember her in suits. I remember her in dresses all the time. Okay. So. Is that wrong? She never really wore pants again. She wore a lot of pants in this, but you don't see the pants here. What you see is the three piece suit of it. I saw the pants

before this shot. Yeah. So she went into skirt suits a lot of the time and dresses. So she did have the blazer look a lot of the time. That's what I think. That's what I'm reacting to is a pantsuit vibe, which I get was not where we wanted to maybe go forever with Jessica, but I just want to mark it as appreciated. I'm not telling you not to appreciate it because it looks amazing. I'm just saying this is a really interesting starting point. And to think about where we went with this woman is super fun. She's wearing the pants. Of course, she's wearing a three-piece suit. She's literally wearing a waistcoat. Yeah, is that what you call that? A waistcoat?

Yes, and so is Harvey in the same scene. So Mike takes the briefcase of weed to work to hide it. And that happens to be the same day that Louis Litt surprises him with a drug test. Our firm's best researcher, Kristen's let us in on the information that weed does typically stay in your system for 90 days. So Mike is worried. I'm guessing Mike probably knows that. So Mike is Mike's worried. I'm guessing Mike probably knows that. Mike needs somebody else's urine.

Anyway, we start getting the sense that Mike is distracted and dropping the ball, which culminates at the deposition of Joanna Webster. I think this is a good place to call out another great performance in the episode, which is Matt Cervito, who I'm a huge Sopranos fan. So when I was sitting in the room with this guy, this was one of those moments in the pilot where I was like, that's where he's in the Sopranos, where I'm in a scene with somebody from the Sopranos. What kind of role did he play? In the Sopranos, he was an FBI agent. He was an agent. He was coming after Tony Soprano. He had

a bunch of great scenes with Tony. So the last time I watched the Sopranos, I watched it all on borrowed VHS. So I think it's time for me to return. So we're going to have a succession pod and a Sopranos, I watched it all on borrowed VHS. So I think it's time for me to return. So we're going to have a succession pod and a Sopranos pod. So the deposition goes poorly and Joanna no longer wants to help Mike and Harvey. Harvey blames Mike for not being prepared. Didn't he say fix it? You go fix it. I think a good time to talk about the bike too. God, this breaks my heart. If I have a heartbreaker from this episode, it's this one shot of me on the bike with that helmet.

I can't tell you how much I did not want to wear that helmet. And the studio said you had to wear it. We had to. That's what I heard. There was no, there was no, and we were, I was like, let's just do it. Like, let's ask, you know, full suits, like ask forgiveness, not permission. Let's go. Let's just shoot it. And they could use that. And they were like, they will shut our production down if you ride this bike without your helmet.

Like it was full on. And you can't make the helmet look cool. Or I couldn't. A better actor might be able to. I could not. I just as soon as you put it on me, I am like a 12 year old boy. But at the time, I just wanted him to be a cool helmetless guy. I think you can be cool in a helmet.

Look, I get it too. I don't want to glorify that thing. I don't want other people not wearing their helmets. But we should all smoke cigarettes though. Oh, are we getting back to that? That's good now. Suits Rewatch Podcast brought to you by Philip Morris. Smoke them if you got them.

Okay, we're heading back on track listen kids wear your helmets you can have cool helmets there are cool helmets um so mike is on the bike and i just want to say we get my favorite needle drop of the episode it is by the veils and it's called graylin park and i want to shout out to wardrobe My favorite piece of this wardrobe is Mike's helmet. How dare you? I love that helmet. By the way, sidebar, Aaron Korsh remembers the helmet. He was like, oh my God, Mike and the helmet. It wasn't just Mike, Kevin Bray. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We all hated the helmet. Well, it's seared into Aaron Korsh's memory as it is yours. There's probably a couple of things that are seared into Aaron's memory. But yes, that's the sort of thing that Aaron could not care less about, right?

That's the sort of thing that keep Kevin Bray up at night. And Aaron Korsh would be like, well, stop asking me questions about the helmet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a perfect example of that. We pick up and Mike is trying to figure out what to do. He's had a talking to. He's sitting with his weed and he's having to take it all in. And we get to see this scene between Harvey and Lewis in the bathroom where Harvey comes to give him a hard time and explains to him that he's got to stay away from

his boy. And Lewis reveals that Gary Lipsky was a plant. And this gives Harvey the idea that Joanna Webster was, in fact, a plant. So then we're in the scene, we have a bathroom scene with Lewis and Harvey, and I just want to say that does establish that code, that a lot of things happen in the bathrooms on our show. And shout out to Rick's choice of Lewis's quiet confidence and ease. Yeah. So beautiful in that scene.

It's just a chef's kiss. It's great. There's not a single scene where lewis doesn't just crush it here um but you're right bathrooms are play a major role and uh where people are there's not a lot to work with in an office and i think we learned that you know as we shot so often in an office you're like oh you don't you kind of run out of places and you have to figure out where certain things happen and, and how to stage things because, you know, you have the same scene in the same six sets, you know, a thousand times. Yeah. So I think Ally McBeal, um, got there first. They started

using their bathroom with more frequent, a lot of frequency well before we did, but shout out Ally McBeal. Uh, and then we are at joanna webster's door and harvey is just giving it to her he's caught her in the act and he says something like i could pull out all this proof i don't have i'm the guy you tell i'm the guy you tell great line was so charming and you understand why people might tell harvey specter thing and I think because that was day one for me was the same day they were shooting this. When I got to set, he was shooting this. This might be his first scene.

Oh, okay. I think. I remember getting to set and knowing they were shooting this and it was inside so I couldn't really watch it. But I knew it was happening. A little BTS information. So then Mike finally confronts Trevor. He returns the briefcase full of weed.

And in a moment of triumph, he takes all of Trevor's nice expensive suits. And what I love about this, Patrick, I think my favorite thing is that, look, we think that Mike is just taking all these fancy expensive suits. But then on his way out the door, he has his final like ta-da,

or he like, you know, twists the knife a little bit where he opens the briefcase and he reveals the weed to Jenny. Yeah. And it's nice to finally the briefcase is tracked so much for him as this big metaphor of, you know, maybe there's still a world for me where I could not do this. So there's something very powerful about seeing him open that and take out the suits. And then we cut to this great scene where he comes in, you know, and as somebody who didn't really even at the time understand the difference in fashion, when I came in wearing the suit, I was like, why is the suit so different? So you don't, you have to understand, I am like, I am like, it is such a blind spot for me fashion. And it's, you know, I think I'm really coming into my own now that I'm a father because I think I've always just been a dad in like dad core. Like I just want to wear shorts and shoes that don't

look right with my shorts. Like I don't know how to dress and I'm trying to learn and maybe through this pod I can be, I can be taught. But at the time, like I literally be like, sure, the suit's a suit. Like they're all, aren't all suits the same? Like what are you talking about? So Mike's naivete is the exact same as my own naivete on it. When you were doing plays and you had your costume fitting, that wasn't like a transformational piece of doing a play. I can be into it. Like I can be excited as a way of it,

like expressing a part of the character. But this show is about like fashion. I just said that to a guy who was naked on Broadway. Yeah. Last time I did Broadway, it was the lack of clothes. But like, I just don't understand what's cool. I'm learning more and I obviously learned a lot more from the show. But it's funny to watch this now and think when I came in in this suit, I didn't understand. Like to me, it didn't seem like it was that big a difference from the suit I was wearing with the rest of it. And then when I watch this now, I do see it through my eyes now that this is a significantly nicer suit and that Mike looks totally different.

So I have a totally different relationship to costume than you do. I think what can be interesting about the clothes on suits is that like my experience of them were that they were a tool. So as Donna's clothes got more and more elevated, it shifted the way I think she walked. It's shifted her position in the world. It shifted the way she moved in the world. So I think that's just a really different way to come at what the clothes are.

When you put on one of Donna's things that was like your favorite thing from Suits, did you feel like like stronger sexier better yeah by the end i was participating in choosing which dress in which scene right based on what was happening so i think this is a flowier scene i think this is a guarded like armored a scene i think this needs this kind of shoe. I think this kind of cut, a full skirted moment, a not full skirted moment. That was the way, that was one of the paths out of my Sarah-ness into being Donna because who she is, like she was incredibly vain and confident.

And I thought originally that some of those places where donna is incredibly confident for example about her appearance my first response was oh she's being self-deprecating and it was aaron or the director had to be like no no no she's saying this thing and i was like yeah like in a funny way like because your instinct is to go like oh i'm not that thing is that you know what i mean like i'll be self-deprecating. I won't actually feel. Are you going to charge me for the therapy? No, because what I'm saying is you've said that you could put on certain clothes

and you'd feel that cool and that strong and that sexy if it was done the way that you want it. But no, of course. Did you personally, Sarah, feel also sexier, more confident on camera? I felt transformed. I felt like a different person. I never felt that way.

That's what I'm getting at. I could put on a $4,000 suit that was the most beautiful suit in the whole world. And I'll still feel like I'm 10 years old and I'm dressing up in my father's clothes. Yeah. That's my point. Like that I learned how to get over my own self to realize that I'm insane and that I could that what was being communicated on screen was different than my experience. But in my head, it did not make me feel any more attractive or cooler looking or sexy

or confident. That's my point. I have had to, over the course of my own life, just like get over that there's going to be this hump of my brain that's never going to feel that way. But I can understand that it will be expressed differently. So all I would add to that is when I was putting those clothes on, it wasn't Sarah, it was Donna. Sure.

Right? It was not about whether Sarah felt cool and beautiful. It was about whether Donna did. A hundred. And it was about who's the person who buys this stuff for herself. It was a path. And I think Jolie and Joanna later really like really, really helped me lean into, hey, can I use this to help me in this scene? What do you think? I think we're talking in a way about two different things because I totally see it that way, too.

A hundred percent like, oh, Mike's got to be really dialed in and let's tailor it this way. He's really strong in the scene. He's the guy who's winning. And therefore, I can use the wardrobe to express that and feel that. There was just always also a thing I had to get over, which was, oh, I'm never going to feel confident in anything I wear. Yeah. Especially in the early years of suits. Like a lot of body dysmorphia. For sure.

A lot of like just feeling like a fraud. Especially when you're sitting across from this guy, Gabriel Mocked, looking the way that he looks. You're preaching to the choir. You know, he shows up in his, you know, sweatpants and he looks the way that he looks. Anyway, we've got them in this room together. The bromance is alive and well, and Mike is in it to win it. He's not going anywhere. And you can see the brothers have united and they're on their way to court. So this is the scene where you come in

and you show that you're committed. Yeah. And this is one of the scenes that was one of my favorites because it's a very tender conversation about what is happening there and the bond that is now solidified between the two of them. For sure. But one of my favorite suits codes I'll say that is defined here is that Harvey hands you a brief and you read it in exactly four one thousand. I think we both made this note. This exact same note. It was four. I count it. It was four one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand, four one thousand. Where somebody consumes a document instantly and not only consumes the information,

but processes the repercussions. And that is like, is this for real? Let's go. And the whole game plan, it makes sense. It's a great. Those are viral on TikTok. Yeah. Are they? A lot of TikToks about those. People love it. Really. Awesome. Thank you. And that's from our firm's best researcher, Kristen. It's interesting that TikTok doesn't serve me up more of myself. What's that about? Oh my God, thank God. I'm really happy about it. But you would think that the algorithm would be like, we found him. Let's just launch it at him. I have

a similar question, sidebar. About Netflix. When you watch Netflix, is the suits on your Netflix, like your face? Because I think that poster changes to what's on yours. Sometimes it's a group and sometimes it's me. Sometimes it is you. Yeah. And I don't know if I'm prepared. It knows. It knows. It doesn't know that it's you, but like it knows enough that it's probably you. No, I think it knows that somebody in my house or me has watched the other Netflix show that I'm on on all the episodes of it. Right. So they go, oh, OK, what about me, though? Because I'm not on any other Netflix shows and it knows it's me. Every time I pull it up, I go, look at me. I'm the poster of Suits. That's cool. Why would they, oh, they didn't just pick me. That's just my house.

But are you ready for all the things that are for you, for your algorithm on Netflix to offer up for you everything that's like Suits? Because the thing that you're going to be watching the most is Suits. Yes, because we are watching. Yeah, my algorithm is already like, what are you doing? So let's get back into it. We get the first shot. I remember shooting this B-roll stuff in New York, which was great, of the courthouse. And both Harvey and Mike are presenting Charles Hunt with everything that they found. They realized Joanna Webster was a fraud. And we get to do that classic thing in Suits, which will happen time and time again, where Mike and Harvey just have folders in their hands and deliver the hard truth to our bad guy. I think this is a really fun scene. I love the moment in this scene when they trying to keep it cool for so long. And then as soon as they leave, he's like, has to shake it out because he's never felt that cool in his entire life.

I thought that was pretty fun. Yes. And I don't remember doing it. It's one of those things where I was like, oh God, I should be nicer to myself. That was a good idea. Yeah. They've managed to do that very hard thing, which the show wants to do, which is Harvey wants to win, but Mike needs to do the right thing. And right from our pilot, we have accomplished both those goals. And Batman and Robin are leaving the courthouse together at last, riffing on what the better Batman is, which obviously is no contest. Keaton. It's Michael Keaton.

Michael Keaton's not in the script, though. Did you notice that? Did we improvise that? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it was improvised. We did. No, my God. Now that you, thank you so much for bringing that up. We did improvise that. I remember that. I remember in the moment we both went, well, Michael Keaton's the best. And then I think Aaron was like, oh my God, hey, Michael Keaton. Great. I have, as you can tell, I have a very specific Eric Horsham impression that might come up from

time to time. Guys, that is the whole pilot. I want to say that that was really fun. So I have a very specific Eric Horsham impression that might come up from time to time. Guys, that is the whole pilot. I want to say that that was really fun. So I have a question of a really burning question. How many goddams did we get in this episode? We had four in the first part. I'm going to go six. Nine total. There are seven total in the entire episode. So only three more this time. Whoa. Look, this is the first of many episodes. We are so excited to continue to do this. We're going to have guests come on. We're going to be talking to people both in front of and behind the camera

who helped make this show what it was. We're so excited to continue to do this. And we also want to hear from you. So if you have any questions, thoughts or ideas of other things you'd like to hear from us on the pod, please send your emails to sidebarpodcastatseriousxm.com. If you want to record an audio clip of the question, go for it, and we can play it on the show. We're really open to any ideas, things you guys want to hear more of or less of. Please let us know, and I can't wait to keep being in the room with you. Me too.

Thank you, friend. I'll see you next time. Thank you. Our music is by Brendan Burns and our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin Anderson.