Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast - Play the Man

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

This week's episode is brought to you by yacht rock!  Patrick and Sarah groove their way through S1 E7 - Play the Man. We learn that Patrick is a Trekkie, Sarah loves Bread (the band...and maybe the food?), and that they both love Scottie. #TeamRachel and #TeamJenny resurface, and Abigail Spencer shares with us how she ended up on Suits. Email us a voice memo of your questions about Suits at [e-mail]. We may use it on the show!Follow us on Instagram & TikTok - @suitssidebarGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/sidebar

Wait, can I say something to you? Are we record? Are we going? I'm just always ready. You guys Yeah, we can put it all can we edit I don't know are we rolling right now I just want to tell you something. There is a scene that comes up where there's a needle drop and there's some epic needle drops in the show But this needle drop is cool It totally made me think of bread. Are you familiar with any kind of soft rock? Yacht rock? Yeah, classic bread like baby. I don't know what red. Yes, you do. Do I baby? I'm a want you baby. I'm a you. Is that the song that this reminds you of? Well, so, okay, so in the show, you and Jenny

are gonna soft rock the shit out of each other. And there's a cool song, but it reminded me of Bread. So anyway, the point is, last night, I listened to the most popular Bread song. And then when I got in the car this morning, it was just on. So normally I would have turned it off, but I just let that play through

and I soft rocked the hell out of myself over here. You are coming in with that. I came in with some yacht rock. Soft yacht rock energy today. Oh, it's so, and you know, in fact, I'm gonna talk with like a. Silky smooth. Yeah.

It really elevated my spirits, you know what? Cause I've been on the struggle bus all week. Yeah, me too. Santu's away. Yeah. And we're recording on a Sunday, which you've never done, but I'm kind of into it. I feel much more relaxed today.

It's like we can pop over to the farmers market afterwards. Which obviously we will. Yeah, we can soft rock ourselves over to the farmers market. Shall we dive in here? Hi everyone, welcome to Sidebar, a Suits Watch podcast. My name is Patrick Adams. And I'm Sarah Rafferty and we were on Suits, but we've never really watched Suits until now.

And this week we watched season one, episode seven, Play the Man, But before we dive in, hi. Hi. Hi. Hey. Hey. We have so much to talk about with this episode. It's a big one.

Yeah. But how are you doing before we do that? How's everything? Just a quick check in. Where are you at? I'm, I'm okay. Mentally and emotionally and spiritually. I'm okay.

How are you? I am good. I'm just, you know, I'm still shooting this show and I'm in Texas at the moment. And it's just, you know, it reminds me shooting this show and I'm in Texas at the moment. And it's just, you know, it reminds me of what Suits was. Just so much back and forth and you're with the family for a couple of days

and then you're gone and on a plane again. So I'm excited. We're having such a good time on this thing, but I'm so excited to be home and here and able to just do this with you in the studio for a couple of months. So that's it. That's my story. What about you? I'm so excited. I can't wait to be in the studio with you more in the next couple of months

because I think it's really important to- Just physically be present together. Physically. Just touch hands. Touch, touch, touch. Listener, we are physically touch. Get right up on that mic. Sweaty balls. Anyway, let's talk about- Touch, touch. Listener, we are physically touch. Get right up on that mic.

Sweaty balls. Anyway, let's talk about Clavenin. Listener, our engineer told us before we started that Sarah's mic technique is far better than mine. He said it in a kind way, but he did point out that she's got the best in the business, I'm pretty sure is how he put it, and I have some work to do.

So this episode, you're gonna hear a lot of this right up on here. And I'm gonna go right into this. And that brings us to the brief. Do you wanna dive in? Yes, let's dive in. I'm so excited to talk about this episode. Today we're breaking down season one,

episode seven, Play the Man. This episode was written by Erica Lopez and directed by Tim Matheson, originally aired on Thursday, August 4th, 2011. So in our first of many Suits mock trials, Mike is pitted against Lewis's protege, Kyle, and a visitor from Harvey's past complicates a merger negotiation

between their respective clients, and Jenny is back. Thank God. We have some quick facts from Kiki, our firm's best researcher. The shoot dates were June 14th to June 22nd. We were one day away from the series premiere. Erika Lopez worked on Suits for three seasons and wrote four episodes. She's gone on to great things.

Most recently, she was the showrunner for the critically acclaimed Hulu Limited series, We Were the Lucky Ones, which came out earlier this year. And since Suits, she's also written for the morning show Julia and Bates Motel so she's been a very busy lady. I guess this is the first of four mock trial episodes which I should know that because I definitely shot them but I don't remember making four so I'm excited. But you remember this one right? I do and we'll get into it again like I learned I remembered more as we were doing it. Do you have any opening statements you wanna talk about

before we start excavating here? Yes, so I'm very excited to dig into Erica's first episode. It is our first episode written by a woman, and obviously she's writing with Aaron. They're writing it together, but I am particularly taken in this episode by the leaps and the bounds that four female characters in particular take.

So I love seeing women go toe to toe with their male counterparts. They are sparring with the verbal banter in a very, very satisfying way. And I'm not surprised that the lady character that she introduces in this episode goes on to become a central part of the fabric of the show. One of the most important, yep.

So I'm really loving how the device of the mock trial knits together the Pearson-Hardman world. I think it's really fun to get to see everybody in the same room. And for me, on a personal note, this was the episode that gave Donna like a sure footing in the ecosystem of Pearson Hardman. And she gets to really joyfully feel like she matters to the firm in a unique way.

And I know we talked about this when we talked about the scene where Donna messes with Lewis in bailout, but that scene was written after this episode was written. Oh, interesting. So it's like this, you're saying maybe what happened in this episode was written. Oh, interesting. So it's like this, you're saying maybe what happened in this episode almost. Informed the writing of that scene, which got put back in in an earlier moment. That scene was written after Erica had developed this part of Donna and had expanded Donna's presence and her backstory and her wit and her fearlessness.

And I distinctly remember when we were shooting this episode that at one point I grabbed Erica on set just outside the library where we were shooting the mock trial and I just thanked her. I just really felt like I owed her a lot for coming up with this part of Donna that is obsessed with acting and messing with people and going toe to toe with people and finding her kind of special. Special sauce. Unique sauce, yeah.

A hundred percent. You basically said everything I would say to begin with. I mean, obviously as soon as it started, I went, oh my God, mock trial. It felt like there was pre-mock trial and post-mock trial. It felt like a really pivotal moment and it was interesting to watch this episode and try and figure out why and it and there are multiple reasons and I think you just hit on a lot of them. Erica being a

big one. I thought Tim Matheson did a fantastic job. We'll get more into into some of the stuff he was doing in this episode that I hadn't seen a lot of yet and I think we just learned so much about all the characters in this episode. So, yeah, huge one. I'm excited to dig in. I was, as soon as it started, I was like, oh, yes, this one. Yeah, it was like the perfect moment for it. Also, we both worked with Tim before.

I worked with Tim as an actor. I played his wife on an episode of Without a Trace, and I feel like his character had framed my character for a murder or something. How much longer before this was that? How would you hear? That's a great question. I don't know.

Tim Matheson, for those who don't know, a great accomplished actor, as well as now a television director, maybe most famously known for his role in Animal House. That was how I knew him best. But yeah, he's done a ton of stuff. I thought it was interesting that I was cast as his wife. I think we have like a 24-year-age difference, something like that.

Yeah, that's so weird in Hollywood. Just going to drop that in there for a secondy sec. In this industry, who would have thought? I worked with Tim. I did never ever. That's so strange. Secondy sec. In this industry, who would've thought? I worked with Tim. I did an episode of Cold Case with Tim. It was actually one of my first jobs. I was a guest star on an episode of Cold Case.

He was directing it. He couldn't have been nicer. Also, fun fact, I took Tim Matheson's headshots. I remember I took his headshots. So Tim Matheson, I used to take headshots in my garage. That's how I survived, because I'm Canadian and I wasn't allowed to have a normal job.

So Tim Matheson was in my garage taking pictures. It was so wild. He's very handsome. But you know what? We'll do this in our Tim Matheson pod. You ready for that? Can we talk to Sirius about our Tim Matheson pod? Okay. Anyway, terrific guy and he directed a great episode. So let's get into it.

We open on Mike zooming through Manhattan on his bike and he nearly runs Rachel over and we see that she's still angry at the revelation that Mike has a history of cheating on the LSAT. This helmet thing, I mean, we gotta put a nail in it right off the bat. I mean, this is the most egregious. How? First of all, I love the opening and the biking through the city.

Clearly me doing all my own stunts, obviously. You know, this speaks to what Tim's doing in this episode, which is a lot of like quick, fast-paced, close-up interstitial stuff. So the episode starts with some of the best bike coverage I think we've had. what Tim's doing in this episode, which is a lot of like quick, fast-paced, close-up, interstitial stuff. So the episode starts with some of the best bike coverage I think we've had. But again, because I'm actually in traffic, I'm wearing the godforsaken helmet, which I understand safety first, but it looks kind of ridiculous.

And you see me doing all this stuff and flying through. And then when I pull up to meet Rachel, the helmet's just gone. Doesn't exist. It's not even like connected to my bag, it's not on the thing. And why is it bothering you? It bothers me because it makes no sense. You just saw me with a helmet and now I don't have a helmet. So this to me was the most egregious version of this

and I got mad at myself because I was like, okay, your ego just officially made something not make sense in the episode. And I don't know if it hit other people, but obviously I'm sensitive to the helmet. What's the lesson here? The lesson is just wear the helmet. It doesn't make sense.

Continuity is important. Continuity is important. Wait, guys, guys in the booth. Did I just win the whole helmet debate? We just led him to my birth? But as an actor, it looks so silly, but I guess Mike is supposed to be silly. I think you look good in the helmet.

Oh, that's sweet. I look great in the helmet. You're lying to me. This is sponsored by helmets. Oh. So the bullpen's empty, we find the whole firm preparing for Pearson Hardman's mock trial 2011. Donna explains to Mike what a big deal this is.

Mike is assigned to go up against Louis' guy, Kyle, played by Ben Hollingsworth, who we're meeting for the first time in this episode. Gosh, just look at these babies. We were babies. And yeah, we get to stand next to each other. I love, probably just, you know, I loved it anyway, but now that we're doing this podcast together,

every time our characters come together, I'm like, yeah, yeah! Yes, I know. They're together! And yeah, I just love it. And I love you and the scene. It was great. Yeah, this scene looms large in my memory. I think I remember so many of those lines in this little teeny bit that we had. I must have just read those exchanges over and over

again because they were suddenly a big source of Donna's backstory and who she was and who she believed herself to be. And I think the opportunity for her to play an important role in the firm was the first thing that personally, and I'm really sorry to do this, but it lit her up. Somebody wants to get lit up. She got lit up.

You can feel it. She is lit up. Yeah, it's so fun to watch how excited she is to get to give a performance in this episode. She really believes she's gifted. And there's no doubt. It's like, we are doing this. I finally get to put my skills to work. The confidence level couldn't be higher. And when Donna says to Mike, it's your debutante ball, clearly it's her debutante ball.

Like, she is coming out. And I think it's hilarious debutante ball. Like she is coming out. And I think it's hilarious that she resents that she played a traffic call. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. But like it was such a waste. Just beneath her. Beneath her talents.

Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it makes me so excited to see, it's just such a great setup to, I mean, A, the mock trial is a great idea and a great setup. I to see how Mike's gonna fare But I'm most excited to see how Donna's gonna perform especially because she says I don't play anything. I embody

I've heard you say that in your own. Oh, yeah, like in all my work What are you wearing in this scene though? This outfit in particular seemed, I was curious how you felt about it. Yeah, I think Wardrobe was playing with Donna's quirkiness. I think they were trying to see, who is she? Is she the quirky secretary? Is she elegant? Do we need to put a hat on it?

We don't know yet. It's so funny because you're so beautiful and you're so striking but you're in a show where the character actually like at this point you're right they don't know should she be beautiful it's actually maybe gonna be problematic if she's too beautiful and Harvey and her like what's happening so now if we make you quirky it's like easier but it's so weird knowing you and I guess also knowing where this character's gonna go and how beautifully you are dressed when we actually figure it all out. Sometimes I see these outfits and I'm like, what? Why are we trying to dress

this down? You know what's interesting? Well, thank you for the compliment embedded in there, Patrick. Of course. That's so nice. But I think it's so funny. Did I tell you this story that when I got this part, I said to my team, I was like, I'm excited to play the girl behind the desk because I want to get pregnant. And I'm psyched that I can be quirky

and I can be without the pressure of looking a certain way because they already have those two ladies. They had Gina Torres and they had Meghan Markle. And I was like, okay, great. I can be like the weird quirky. I don't have to have the pressure of being the sex, like the sexy one. And I thought I could hide a pregnancy behind the desk for sure. I thought that could happen. So there's something in the scene that I wanted to talk about with you, which is something that we talk about all the time, which is my boobs.

I bet it's my favorite topic of conversation. So let's dive in. I had a memory when I saw that outfit. So that outfit is not fitting very well. Wouldn't you say? This feels like a trap. It's not a trap. This is a safe space.

We've said that over and over again. I feel like it is emphasizing. Say it. Right? We're emphasizing, but isn't that a good thing or no? My chest? This is a safe space. We've said that over and over again. I feel like it is emphasizing... Say it. Right? We're emphasizing. But isn't that a good thing? Or no? My chest. Right, yeah. My breast?

Isn't that emphasis? Oh boy. Okay, no, so this brought up just a fun memory on set. So I was away the last episode, right? I've come back. Obviously, probably before I left for that last episode, I had a fitting. I came back and I wear this quirky outfit. I didn't fit in it on that day because super secret, I'm pregnant. And I remember Mark, the wardrobe guy.

Was not happy. He was like, what? I was like, hey, Mark, I don't fit in this shirt anymore. But you can't tell anybody you're pregnant. Nope, not telling anybody. And he, I only like, hey, Mark, I don't fit in this shirt anymore. But you can't tell anybody you're pregnant. Nope, not telling anybody. And he, I only heard this later, that he like went to Julie and was like, she doesn't fit in her clothes.

Like she doesn't fit in her shirt. But he did something super brilliant right there in the moment. How do you fix it? He just cut the back of the shirt. Oh really? Because I'm wearing a vest. He just cut the back, left it open.

We had to do this quickity quick pants because I had to get to set. So he cuts the back of the shirt and I go on and we kind of like tape it together. And you can see it doesn't fit that well, but it was really funny because later when I got to tell Mark and I got to tell Jolie, they were like, oh, that makes sense.

That's why. That's why. I just need some yacht rock to bring me back into this. I just need some yacht rock to bring me back into this. Act one. All right. Here we go. We're heading into act one. Harvey gives Mike some advice about the mock trial. Tough scene for me to watch, because-

Why? Because I'm a Trekkie. There's a moment in this where he's talking about Star Trek and he is referring to a very important event in the lore of Star Trek, Kobayashi Maru, which is a moment, if you'll give me, allow me to digress. Captain Kirk changes the rules of a simulation in order to pass the test.

He like goes in and like rewires it and ends up passing because he cheats essentially. It's called Kobayashi Maru. It's a big part of the lore of Captain Kirk, something I am very familiar with. And Gabriel, clearly because he's school, had no idea what it was. And you can hear him in how he says Kobayashi Maru.

Can we pull that up? That's important. All I'm saying is try and create a situation where that's not even a possibility. Kobayashi Maru. How he said, Kobayashi Maru. Okay. It's Kobayashi Maru.

Okay. I'm not saying it. You don't need to say it, but just as a Trekkie, and any Trekkie who is out there would probably hear that and realize he actually doesn't know what he's talking about. Yes. Okay. Um, let's move on. In a meeting to discuss the merger,

Harvey learns that he will be negotiating with his former law school rival, Dana Scott, played by Abigail Spencer. We have, uh, I mean, I don't know that you can get a better entrance than this as a character. No, this woman knows how to make an entrance and how to own a scene. And it's just, she just looks like a trillion dollars.

It's so clear from the first moment. And I love how it pans off Harvey's face to her and you see what this means to him. Waking in his boots, kryptonite is arriving. Exactly, exactly. I thought it was a brilliant, brilliant moment. It felt like a timeless entrance too. Like when I look back on it,

it seems like an old timey movie. It seems like Audrey Hepburn is coming down the stairs. Sometimes I don't love on shows the like, the sort of male-y gaze, like up the legs and all that. But for some reason in this, it's like perfect. It didn't feel just sexualizing, it felt powerful. Does that make sense? I love that you drew the difference between those things.

Yeah, sometimes it feels like it's just sexual. Like panning up the legs is that male gaze thing. We could look for that more, because here it's done really, really well here. Yeah, it's perfect. It's perfect. An early contender for me for the Gina Torriz moment of the week. Mm-hmm.

I don't know that you can beat it, and if we do beat it, it's probably another Abigail Spencer moment. Seen that she does. Exactly, exactly. Okay, so I took this opportunity, of course, to reach out to Abigail Spencer because we're

obviously we're eager to get her on the podcast sometime soon to talk about Scotty and she's amazing. So we're so lucky she sent us a voicemail. Here it is. Oh ho, Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams. Do I have any memories of the first time suits came across my desk? Sure do. Also, you know, sidebar on a sidebar.

Thank you so much for having me. I had the great fortune of just being on Mad Men, honestly. I had just been on Mad Men and really the first time a lot of people seeing my work and Aaron Korsh happened to be one of them. He reached out through Bonnie Zane, the illustrious Suits casting director. And to her credit, I actually had an offer for another show. And it was a show that had already been on the air for years. And it was going to be recurring like multiple episodes and the suits offer was for one episode and Bonnie she was like I I know you have this other offer. I Think you should just watch the pilot. I'm just gonna slip you the first episode of suits So I watched the first episode of suits and I was like, oh my god

It's gonna be Mad Men for, like Mad Men for Lawyers. That's what I said a lot, Mad Men for Lawyers. And I just was like, I think, I think it's worth taking a little bit of a quote unquote risk. The role was amazing. You guys were all amazing. I loved it. I loved working with Gabriel. I mean, what a scene partner. Like, you know, whenever I'd come on sets, it's like, hey, favorite scene partner. And then all of you guys, I mean, I don't know if you remember, Sarah,

but like I had seen something. Maybe it was after Play the Man when I came back for season two, you and I had dinner. And I was like, girl, you are amazing on the show. And, you know, I just really got to revel in everyone's great work. And my son, who's now 16, wanted, I mean, my son was two when I started. He's 16 now. What? And he wanted, has the summer wanted to start watching Suits. So we are, we're in

season four. And so I recently got to watch this episode and, and I'm also kind of rediscovering Suits along with the rest of the world. And it's so good. And Scottie is so great. And that was such a great introduction. So it's pretty fresh. So it's like so present for me when it happened, but also present for me right now because I just got to revisit it. So thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks. So excited for you guys. I can't wait to be with you in person and do more. Lots of love you guys. I hope you're having fun, bye. She's the best. So cool, so cool.

Thank you so much, Abby. We can't wait to talk to you more. I don't know if this is also the appropriate time because I don't know that I've ever told Abigail Spencer this but I think like most men in America, coming off of Mad Men, I had an enormous crush on her. She played an iconic role on Mad Men, a teacher who interacts with John Hamm's Don Draper

and she was just radiant and amazing and did such a good job. So I remember when I found out she was coming to the show, I got very squirrely. I was like, what? Oh my God, what? Abigail Spanning, what am I wearing? And is interacts in quotes? Interacts,, what? Abigail, spit it out. Interacts in quotes?

Interacts. That's my new word for coitus. Oh, nice. Interacts. I can support that. So then Harvey and Scotty begin to discuss their clients' merger and we quickly discover their history is far more interesting than just former law school rivals.

Hats off to Abigail for jumping right into Gabriel's arms for that scene. I mean, this is before we had intimacy coordinators where all these things were planned. I mean, I'm sure they rehearsed it and planned it, but like, I personally would need like a professional athlete to jump into their arms. I'm sure that Gabriel could catch me if I did that, but like.

I could catch, you don't think I could catch you? I think we should, can we just give it a quick, a little quick one too. No, I don't, I think I. I'm going to catch you when we're done here. We're doing it. And we're gonna get a video. Well, like I was saying, like I'm too tall for the ride.

Like I don't know if I can get, do that. Like I feel, I'm afraid I would take somebody down. She did it great. The scenes's great. It's fun to watch. You're like, oh God, I already love these two together. Yes. He has met his match.

So in act two, the mock trial begins and Mike is blindsided by Kyle. So Mike requests ample time to prepare his case since Kyle caught him off guard. Jessica gives him five minutes. Rachel checks on a very rattled Mike. I also wanted to punch Kyle in the face in the scene. And a couple more times I wanna punch him in the face.

He's very good at playing a punchable character. This is very good. It's, you know, he's, we've seen like an evolution of these guys who are coming up against Mike. And I think Kyle does a great job of being the like ultimate douche. Well done, well done sir. Oh I just thought it was funny when you're watching all of this mock trial you see all these older lawyers sitting around and watching like attentively

like this mock trial and it's like what aren't you all professional lawyers? What about your clients? Even Jessica's like aren what, aren't you all professional lawyers? What about your clients? Even Jessica is like, aren't you, don't you have something better to do than running the mock trial for, and it's not just like, you're just seeing mine and Kyle's, but at the beginning, Lewis is handing out a bunch of them. So you're just seeing one, there's like 10 of these

that are happening throughout the day. So apparently Pearson Hardman just doesn't have any cases to be working on for two weeks. I don't know. Thank God they're there because watching them listen is one of the most satisfying parts of this episode. We'll get into that more later. So Harvey returns to the office after his meeting

and Donna teases him about Scotty. Oh God, I love you so much. You're so, this is what we're talking about. You're so in the pocket by this episode. You're like, it's so wild to watch. It's like, oh, we found it. We found the gear. It's just like perfect.

And it's perfect. But one of the details I love is there's not an ounce of jealousy. I think the temptation to play a moment, you know, like we talked about in that up with Bonnie Zane, like a moment of I'm also a little sad, I also have a thing for it. You didn't play a single moment of it. You are just like a frat brother. You are just like high-fiving him.

It's so good and leave so much more to happen rather than trying to like put the, you know, the breadcrumbs to something else that might, you don't need to. You're like, we have plenty of time. It's really fun. Exactly. I love this scene so much. And, you know, I do really want to thank Erica and Aaron

for this. And in some ways, it's like I imagine them writing this together, like in some fantasy version of it where they're beautifully lit somewhere on opposite sides of a desk, like playing each each part you know what I mean? Candle lit? Yeah. But I think it establishes a bunch of things in a really short amount of space. When you look at it on the page it's you know a few eighths of a page I think.

Yeah it's quick. It's not that much. So one you find out Donna knows everything which is obviously something that we lean into through the whole series. So she knows everything, including that they just had sex, right? Interacted. Yeah, they just interacted, thank you.

Interacted. Thank you. That there's no boss, employee vibe here at all. No. She's his equal. His buddies. Yeah, she can take the piss. Like Harvey, Donna enjoys going toe to toe. And I love that she wins this round, I think,

with several zingers, not just one. Like she gets the, did you come out on top? Your fly's unzipped. It was earlier today. And the, ooh, is that what Scottie said? Like they literally let her win time after time. Yeah, there's no doubt she's winning. And that's such an Aaron Korsh.

Like, when you're hanging out with Aaron Korsh, that's how he works. Like, you know, one person gets somebody, and then you got to get the one. And it's like, how far can you go? So it's fun to read these scenes, because you can just see him writing it. And he, like, he will take it as far as a character can go

before it's like, that's the end of the scene. But he made it that the secretary won. Oh yeah, for sure. Like our hero loses. He has to walk away. Yeah, of course, you win. I love that and I'm so grateful for it. So then Mike's waiting in Harvey's office

ready to let him know exactly what he thinks of Harvey's advice, but Harvey shuts him down with some major wisdom bombs. I feel like there's a lot of memeable Harvey moments in this scene. Mock trial is about figuring out what kind of lawyer you want to be. And there are only two types, winners and losers.

I see the meme already. Winners don't make excuses when the other side plays the game. I feel like we're getting a Harvey TED Talk here. Does Star Trek give you those TED Talks? It drops wisdom and philosophy too, right? Star Trek? Yeah.

Oh yeah. When we're done watching this show, can we just watch all of Star Trek The Next Generation and do a watch of that? I would love that. Whoa, whoa, I just got tingly excited. It's fun, because maybe by then, I'll be on the other side of menopause

and I'll just be stoned all the time. And then can we bring on the track? Like, do you think, wait a minute. Kristen's face is like, um. Will the track people come? Will Patrick Stewart come? Will they come and talk to us? Could we do this?

I just want him to do this on it. But anyway, what I was gonna say was, it's not the Ted Talk line that I loved the most. It was the opener when he says, take the drama down, Juliet. Yeah, great. Loved it. Nailed it. Nailed it.

["Dreams of a New World"] All right, we're back. Let's get into Act 3. Mike approaches Donna's desk where she offers to play his client in the mock trial by giving her best Lena plunder. I love how she's not necessarily offering. She's just assuming that she's cast. God, it's so good. This scene is so good. This is one scene where you're so good that I am mad at my own performance a little bit.

You're insane. No, no, it's fine. I don't want to get too far down the thing where I'm like too hard on myself, but you're so good that I think actually what's happening in the scene is I am genuinely overwhelmed by how funny and good you're being in this scene that I'm not like fully connected and able to like go with it. It, that's what I'm witnessing when I watch it. I don't want to get into a whole thing about me being hard on myself.

It's fine. It's not a big deal, but this is one scene where I'm watching it. I'm like, oh, I wish I could play this again. Like I would do a couple of other things differently in this scene, but I think I am genuinely astonished by the performance you're giving. Okay, my shin, my jaw is in my lap. I can't believe you're saying that. I don't think you remember that you were improving. Like you added, yeah, and it cuts, it cuts to the bone.

I added that? Yeah, I remember you coming up with that on the spot. You were improving, you were feeding into it. You were totally playing, totally there. And you were just supposed to be really freaked out by Donna's weirdness. And it's the perfect counterpoint to what she's doing. And then you have that beautiful turn where you say, I love you.

It all led to the satisfyingness of that moment. It's the best. I do remember on set that day, we were laughing about the Demi Moore single tier. Is there a particular film you're thinking of at Demi Moore single tier? Ghost. Oh, right.

Epic. Yeah, so good. Yeah. And so I remember we were joking around, and Erica was there, and I was like, oh, what if I said left eye or right? And they were like, yeah, keep it. And what I remember now,

since we're doing this all in order, is that I didn't necessarily ask for permission like I had the last episodes. I was like, oh, I have an idea, how about this? And I was finding my feelings of belonging, I think. You're more relaxed. You're taking risks without feeling like you have to apologize for it.

Yeah. Like all that stuff we've been talking about where you're like unsure if you can take up space and how much time and what can I ask for? That sort of slipping away. Is that what you mean? It's slipping away and I think basically I was like, wait, they have trusted me with this material.

It was delivered to me on the page. I had that element of like, oh, they want me to play, like that invitation. I had worked with Tim as an actor. Then I had you, and as the listener sees, you say incredibly nice things like this to me, right? And so I felt, I think I felt really safe.

I mean, it is kind of a case of life imitating art, is that Donna is finding her spot in the fabric of the firm and Sarah's kind of like, oh, I think I feel a little bit a part of this too. Yeah. And how much, I mean, it's a lot to do with Erica again. Like, I think she got it. In the writing, she got it. She opened up a door.

Again, always Erica and Erin. Erin's a huge part of it and encouraging it, but there's some part of Erica's voice that just really opens this all up. And I think for me, maybe that was a subconscious piece that I needed that permission from another female voice. Maybe I just needed that. I don't know. That's a special sauce that I can't really put my finger on,

but it's definitely happening in this episode. So, Oftauna's advice on how to win the mock trial, Mike visits Jenny, he asks for help, and in the process confesses his big secret. So, did you see your face? Do you see Mike's face when he sees Jenny? Ugh, it's so good to see her. It's so good to see her.

She's the best, and that is my face when I see Vanessa Ray. She is the greatest, and she was so fun to work with, and it was so nice to have her back. will say though this might be what do we have a name for like? The part of the episode that's like the part. We're not the most fond of do we have like a category for that? Yeah Oh, I think we do so what's something that you dislike the scene. I think I think look it's a part of it We can't have a whole scene where you see her learning about Mike's secret, but it feels like we, it's such, Mike hasn't told anybody the secret. Like, it's, it's such a profound secret of the show that nobody knows.

And then off screen, he just tells Jenny and her reaction is just like, oh, that's crazy. Cool. Like, it's not, we have to get through it because the more important scene is what's coming up. And I love the next scene with us working on the trial together, but it just feels like it takes the air out of this secret that Mike has. That's so interesting. And you're yucking my yum a little bit, but I'm going to show up anyway.

I love, love, love, love, love the next scene between the two of them. I think it's great. And I think it is the more important scene and there are gonna be other characters where it's a big deal that they learn the secret. So I understand why it's just, I feel this like, this like,

oh, that's too easy. That happens too easily for somebody who's been hiding this the whole time. And the reaction from her character, from Jenny, is a little too like, oh, that's all good. Like we have to get into. Now that you're saying that, I realized that I wasn't thinking that it was the whole Kit and Kaboodle, which it would have had to have been.

Right. Because she's going to show up at Pearson Hardman and she knows that you're not a lawyer. Yeah. In order to get her character to where it needs to be for this episode, which is great, it's so perfect, he needs to tell her. That's so interesting that you brought that up because it didn't bump me at all, because I was just all in,

because of the simple moment where she says, you trust me. Yeah. So then we go right into the next scene, which I love. I love this scene. Great song. Do you want to tell us what the needle drop is in this song? So it's Cafe Roma by Giacomo Bondi. Is that right? Giacomo? What a howling...

Giacomo. Yeah. Is that why you said, do you want to say it? Yep. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Whatever, it's Cafe Roma, and this is what brought me to bread. Can we play the first just like bar of this? Thank you for trying to get me to say, do the hard stuff. Wait, wait for it, wait for it.

Oh, strumming the guitar. Oh my God, strum the guitar, people. Listen to that, look at that. This is a great, sweet, lovely smooch. You guys are fumbling with clothes, like real humans being super authentic. And then you pick her up. What the hell? I'm triggered. Everybody's getting picked up.

I am from big people. I don't think I ever really did this. I mean, except, you know... We're doing it at this. I mean, we'll do it. I'll just pick you up and we won't fall into bed together, but I'm gonna pick't think I ever really did this. I mean, except, you know. We're doing it at this. I mean, we'll do it. Not with actors. I'll just pick you up and we won't fall into bed together, but I'm gonna pick you up at the end of this.

Well, I just had a panic attack when I was on Chicago Med recently. Oh my God, Dom, Dom Rains, who I was playing opposite, such a great guy, very tall and handsome and built like all of our suits heroes, too. And I had to play a scene where he had to lift me up off the floor, and I had to be dead weight, and I had a panic attack for, like, three days beforehand. He did it, like, ten times, like it was nothing.

But, you know, it was, like, my stuff. Yeah, we got our stuff. So I'm triggered by the fact that all these girls are getting picked up. I would not do that. There's a lot of picking up. I love this scene. I love that song. From now on, whenever I kiss my wife, I'm going to have guitars playing.

You're going to play that song. Well, I think what's really interesting about it is that this scene is cut also with the Scotty Harvey scene where they are smooching too. And it's just very different. So there's a real counterpoint in the slickness. Sorry. I might regret that word. For the Scotty and Harvey piece

and then the wholesomeness of this, as I said, like you guys are gonna soft rock the shit out of each other any minute and it's gonna happen off camera. Especially when she's just pointed out, like you're charming, you're trustworthy. Like don't try and be this other thing. Don't try and be Harvey essentially.

Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I'll be me and then I'm me and then I have my own version of what Harvey's having in a penthouse. So while Mike is with Jenny, Scotty arrives at Harvey's apartment. In an elevator. In an, yeah.

Where's this elevator come from? We never see it again? No, because we build the set and obviously that's not in the budget. We have a fan question here about this apartment from Kathy. She asks, is that the same apartment that Harvey lives in in later seasons?

Scotty comes in through an elevator in the main room and Harvey's bedroom looks different. Yeah, this is actually, we found out this is the same location as the last episode, it's in the Soho Hotel because we have not built Harvey's apartment on our stages yet. I'm not sure when that happened. I'm sure Kiki's gonna figure it out

because she's a superstar. But we don't have it yet, so we keep trying to find what it is in Toronto in real locations. And so they used this elevator. I love that they used it because, again, Scotty makes another entrance. Totally. Big old entrance. Yeah, and it's also funny in shows you think people are going to...

Obviously people catch it, they see it, they go, wait, this doesn't look quite the same, but then you let it go. You know, like... Too-wee, though? Well well I think people let it go like no but it's not it wasn't a huge issue that we never saw this elevator again right right like you you look at in this episode you accept it and then you move on and then that when his apartments built do you really go wait a minute what's going on here no you just think you're looking at the apartment from a different angle right can we chat about I don't know if Gabriel's gonna be somewhere mad at me You just think you're looking at the apartment from a different angle. Right.

Can we chat about, I don't know if Gabriel's gonna be somewhere mad at me for this, but I gotta point it out, Harvey's got a very sort of coquettish pillow hugging thing going on on the bed. You know in this scene where he's putting it all together, like, it's such an interesting take. Like, I don't know why, you'd think he'd kind of be reclined, but instead he's on his stomach, like holding a pillow. It's very different and I love it, but I definitely was like, huh, Harvey. Interesting. You know what I mean?

It's sort of a like. I feel like they planned it in the blocking so that when she comes back with the water, they're sort of laying facing each other and they can have a kiss. And then he can get the idea. Because it's an aha moment. The kiss is the aha moment that she's potentially winning this legal thing. That he's on to her like, wait a minute, this is something's going on.

Sidebar. This is unplanned. We should have a, can we have a sound effect for sidebar? Like a siren or something? Sidebar. It's like a siren or something. Sidebar. Boooo! Boooo! What is this vibe? Is this like heart to heart? Like what were the shows? What was the Kathleen Turner movie with Michael Douglas? Like these- Romancing the Stone?

Romancing the Stone. Yes, it was Romancing the Stone. What was the other one? Romancing the Stone and Jewel of the Nile. But it comes out of like 1940s, 1950s meetings, like, hey, bub, you know, that kind of. Kind of a. Noirish.

Yeah. Post-noirish. Post-noirish, yeah. Like His Girl Friday, like those women who take charge and speak really fast. And fatales. Yeah. But like whatever the evolution of that is.

Yeah, there's a lot of it. It's evoking a lot of that. They're dynamic. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, you can't, you don't, can I trust this person? I mean, she's already displayed the fact that she's can kind of outpace Harvey and you can't trust Harvey.

Like you never know what he's doing. So you know right away, like, while I love these two together, I definitely don't think I can trust trust Harvey. Like you never know what he's doing. So you know right away, like, while I love these two together, I definitely don't think I can trust this woman. Like she's, there's just something up her sleeve and it's fun to watch him realize it. And you know, they're playing a chess game and they, and they love it.

Of course they love it. They like get off on it. It's sexy, yeah. But it's also not sustainable. Yeah. And that's why when Abigail peppers in these really subtle, nuanced, vulnerable moments, it's such a grounded performance. It's beautiful though because you're like, is that real?

Yeah. It's like, is she really feel that way? Or is she trying to make Harvey feel bad so that he doesn't smell that she's onto something else, you know? It's perfect Harvey. It's like the flip side of the coin. It's like, are you really feeling that or is this just another game? Again, are you playing the man? Oh, what did you just do? Whoa.

Oh my God. And Mike's being ripped out of the counter and thrown on the carpeted floor. Anyway, love them together and it's a great scene. Based on her performance, Harvey surmises that Scottie's hiding something. She's beaten him at the merger and he needs to know how, so he calls Mike into the office. I love seeing our guys in the office after hours just trying to figure it out. In t-shirts and-

Just cracking the case, do you know what I mean? Dressed casually is always lovely. He's got a great line in this scene. This is Haley's Comet, take a good look because it'll never happen again. Yeah, that's gonna go on the list of top lines from this episode for sure. Okay, we are back at Pearson Hardman

for the conclusion of the mock trial. Lewis and Harvey placed bets on the winner. Jenny and Rachel meet each other for the first time, and Harvey gives Mike a pep talk about playing the man. I felt very nervous seeing these two women together in the same space. Yep, and the episode is doing its job. Yeah, I felt very like, whoa, oh, no, no, no.

Mm-hmm. But not like, what, there's no secrets? Like, there's no secrets here. But still, like, clearly, no, no. But not like what? There's no secrets, like there's no secrets here, but still like clearly there's conflict. Yeah. The mock trial begins. Donna takes the stand as Mike's client, Lena Lunders. I, this might be the first time I literally laughed out loud.

Well, I've laughed, but I'm a quiet laugher. I'm a quiet laugher. I'm a quiet laugher. I like to laugh privately. This made me almost spit the drink out of my mouth when it cut to you crying and just the silence. It's so expertly edited as well. It really is. Just holds on that face so close. So good. Yes, yes, Kiki. Can I ask Sarah a question about the meta-ness of acting and acting like you're acting to cry? Like, what is that process like?

Does that make sense? Oh my God, that's such a funny question. Okay, so I think I had plenty of experience like on the practice, talking about being roofied and crying about it, or playing the bad guys. I have red hair. I don't know if you guys know this, I have red hair. But living your life as a redhead, as an actress, I think in the beginning,

all my parts were like, the bad girl or the mysterious girl or did she do the crime or is she the victim of the crime? There was that. So I think what's super fun about this is that it's Donna getting her chance to be on SBU. It's Donna getting her chance to be on the practice or be the victim here. Donna really knows her audience. When she leans into the piece about being like, but as a woman in power, people label you, right? And she...

You're crying right now. She's playing it for Jessica, right? She knows who's there. Yeah, but even Jessica, everybody in the scene is just like, what is happening? So that's the brilliance of the scene. And that's why this scene works, is because the way the camera goes

to every single other character, and you specifically have their point of view of watching Donna overact the shit out of this part, that's why it plays. You know, it's like, you know, when you say like, oh, I've gotta play, you know, the king walking on stage. Well, the fact that I'm wearing a robe and a crown really helps,

but also the way the crowd reacts really helps. Like, how everybody behaves in that thing. So the comedy is really in the hands of the people listening, to be honest. Oh my, well, yes, okay. So not only does this scene clearly win the Sarah Rafferty should have won an Emmy Award of the week, but that moment that I think we both found, which is just just like.

And Rick has got a tough job in this episode, which is sometimes you have episodes where you just don't have a lot to do. And then you have an episode like this where not only do you have a lot, not a lot to do, and you get to stay home and just sort of take a break, but you have to be there and you have to be sitting and just watching a mock trial and you don't get to do anything. Those are hard days. It's hard.

I mean, look, there's harder days in the world, but it's rough to sit there for 12 hours and not really have much to do. And sometimes you miss that moment when the camera is on you for the two seconds of the day and it kind of, and you're not paying attention, or you're just sort of tired and mic'd out. This is a very subtle small moment, but earns the, my Rick Hoffman should have won an Emmy Award for this episode.

It's just a subtle rack focus from your enormous, beautiful emotional performance to Rick's stunned face. And I can't tell if it's just stunned or if it's a little impressed. How is she doing this? Like I'm sort of in awe. I swear to God if I had been more hydrated I would have pissed myself watching that. I went back so many times. I took a screen grab of it. I'm gonna put it on my phone so I can see it all the time. It's like you can hear his interior monologue. His interior monologue is on the outside. He's like, what the are you doing?

And I have been on the other side of that face from Rick Hoffman many times in my life. And it's like my favorite place to be when you earn that. Like, what is going on with you? When you've pushed it so far that even Rick is like, I don't know how to follow you. Also mixed with like, something smells really bad too. Like, it's just like the funniest face.

And also Gina has that moment too, because when Lena Lunders is having this like feminist moment about how hard it is to be a woman that tees up Kyle's response. Gina has a little bit of a moment where she's nodding her head no a little bit. It's like as if she's watching a soap opera and being swept away by the soap opera for a few moments.

Interesting, let's pull that up. That was not my read. My read was that Jessica's like, are you okay? But I'd love to see. I think Gina is playing many, many things. Well of course she's not just playing one thing. Yeah. Fine.

Okay, here we racked her up. As a woman in power, people look at your success and label you. There, see? And they label you. You're right, no, there's so much going on. People look at your success and they label you. What's so funny is like,

your character is also just like, in this most beautiful way, making this all about her. It has nothing to do with me. This is like a whole case going on. There's nothing else matters. That's what makes the acting so bad. Full immersion, full immersion. Which is so good.

I think that like Donna has not learned at all that acting is not all about you, it's about the other person. But it helps, it's what he needs. She does the job. Brilliant, love this scene. And then Jenny's next on the witness stand followed by Rachel who gets close to breaking.

So I love this moment where Mike calms Jenny down. He kind of reciprocates. What she did in the apartment. Yeah, I thought that was really sweet. And Jessica clocking it. And so it warmed my heart to have like Jessica see him do a nice thing. And she takes a note. Yeah and she's like oh because you'd think maybe she she'd

judge him for doing something nice. It's like we don't know. We can't figure out where my cross stands with Jessica Pearson. So it was nice to see her be impressed by something. And it will always be a push-pull between the two of them you know moving forward too. Totally of course. I think the rest of this scene might be my scene of the episode. Just, I just, it's the one, again, the one I remember the most now that I'm watching it, and it feels really important to a lot of the characters, you know, specifically Mike and Ray. It just feels important to the show and to what happens here and to the decision that Mike makes. I love this scene.

I thought it shot beautifully. Explain to us what happens in this scene exactly, like what Mike's choices are. So there is an examination. He's put Rachel on the stand and in order to get what he wants, he remembers Harvey's wise words, which is play the woman. And he remembers that Rachel feels like a fraud and feels like she's watched all these people succeed where she should have succeeded.

And he pushes and pushes and pushes and pushes and breaks her. And then he has an opportunity to break her further. Once he's cracked it, he's like, okay, now's the time. And he offers up a settlement before he has to do it again. Kyle being very Kyle-like says, no, I want to see you break her. And Mike chooses not to and he loses the mock trial. Just a beautiful setup. It's just like a really genius idea. It's executed beautifully. I think Megan's performance is gorgeous. And I think it was really fun. I don't know if we've had a courtroom scene in this show yet. I don't know if we've had your classic leading the witness, I object, all the stuff going on. We haven't seen that yet. And so it's kind of fun that on this law show,

the first time you're seeing it is in this mock trial. But I also love that Mike wins the case by losing it in many ways. He wins our hearts by losing the case. He wins you, but loses the case, yeah. He wins the audience, but loses the case. I think we're also at a point in the season where everybody's locked into their characters so much.

So the way that people are listening in this scene and again when we pan to them, it's very, very interesting and the points of view are very clear. So when that moment happens, Luz is kind of surprised and marking it. It's like very foreign to him. Somebody doing something. Yes. Sacrificing their own position in life to...

Yes. And then Jenny's worried about Mike a little bit. At least that's what my interpretation of it is. Rachel is hurt and angry as she should be. Donna's proud that he relented, is impressed with his authenticity and that he's human and that he's kind. And I think that if I'm gonna speak from Donna's point

of view, she really loves seeing that because that's something that Harvey struggles with, that Donna takes nine seasons to kind of coax him out of. And Mike has arrived with it. Jessica, I think seems to privately appreciate his heart and empathy, but then she has to have a verbal response to him later as the mentor and boss that's on the party line.

That's what I saw. And it was cold. What did she say? What did she look straight at him and says? Mave and soft. Soft. That's what I say to myself every morning in the mirror. You're soft and naive.

It's so cruel. It cuts right to the bone. Like a hard mentor might have to, right? I don't think it's true to who she wants to be as a human, but I think she's being the tough mentor. What you just described, all the different people's perspectives in this scene, everybody having a bit of a different read on it, that's really hard to communicate.

So, like, hats off to Erica for writing it, and Erin for writing it, but Tim for directing it. That's hard to, like, get all those different points of view and understand them. It's a complex and difficult feat, and he did a really beautiful job. My question is, are those points of view, though,. It's a complex and difficult feat and he did a really beautiful job. My question is, are those points of view though like written out explicitly or is everybody

just very clear on who their character is? Yeah, I think it's probably intended but no, I think it's a good point. People are playing it too. People are bringing it and then you're on set and that means the DP seeing it. They're like, oh, that's a good moment. That's a good moment.

Make sure to get that. And then the editors in the editing room're like, oh, that's a good moment. That's a good moment. Make sure to get that. And then the editors in the editing room and seeing it. Oh, that's great. So, you know, everybody doing their part, but it does lead to a very kind of interesting and complex scene. So anyway, that's, I think, my favorite scene of the episode. Can we just see if there's a meme of that face of Rick,

just so I can have access to it? I don't mean right now. This is a sidebar. Can you edit this out? You know, you can just make your own memes. What? So if you want a meme, you just go ahead and make it. What are you talking about?

You just take the screen grab and you put words on it. It's a meme. Oh, but I want it to move. I want it to wrap. That's a GIF. And you can also make your own GIFs. Come off with your technical terms. I'll make you a GIF of that face.

We're into act five back in Harvey's office. Harvey expresses his disappointment of Mike's loss, but Mike is sure he did the right thing. I'm proud of Mike for standing up for himself here. I think it would be easy just to say, I'm sorry I screwed up, but I think he's in the process of kind of realizing that he's not gonna be Harvey and that he might not want to be.

But we had a private moment in the previous scene of Harvey noting it. He was there, he had popped in, and he looked away. Did you read into what his face was? It seemed to me he was disappointed. I think he was two things. Oh, okay. See, I'm trying to simplify, but you're right. Life is complex. Things can be two things at one time. All I was paying attention to was how you could tell all the other actors had to be

there for the whole scene and Harvey only had to be there for one shot. And yeah, it was not linked to anybody else. I was like, Kingriel, you're good, man. No one else was in a shot. You're good. You figured out how to be... There's tricks. You've done this long enough and there's tricks to be like,

I'm gonna be standing over here in this corner so you can shoot me out. It's like if you're working with a child on set, I just learned this, because children have only a certain amount of time they can be on set before they have to go home or go to school or whatever. So if you're in a scene with kids

and you really wanna go home early, you just go and stand as close to the kid as possible and like put your hand on their shoulder in the scene. Because as soon as they get cut, you're inevitably getting cut. Wait, that's brilliant. Genius. Wait a second, did you just figure that out on your own

or did somebody- Somebody taught it to me on this show. Wait, you just taught it to me and I am on a show with a lot of kids. Yeah, just get as close as you can to the kid who's pumpkining early as possible. Pumpkining is the word for, you turn into a pumpkin and the kid's gotta go.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's pretty good. Wow, I'm gonna next season on Walter Boys, I'm gonna be like, I am sitting right next, he's on my lap. Yeah, exactly. We're gonna play this with him on my lap. Yeah.

That's perfect. We have a fan question from Gabby. Oh yes, it's Gabby who runs the Suits nostalgia account and the Sarah Rafferty Styles account. And I got to meet her happily in Chicago recently. Can't wait to hear. Let's hear what Gabby has to say. After the mock trial, Harvey is obviously disappointed

in Mike, but Donna seems to have a different reaction. Almost as if she's happy or proud he gave up the win. Why do you think this was Donna's response and how do you think this impacted Mike and Donna's friendship moving forward? It's a great question and I think we talked a little bit about it but what it's making me think now is that Donna is a champion for Mike in this part of him. Nobody else at the firm is super supportive of Mike's open heart in these situations. You can tell everybody's trying to harden him up

and have him not be that soft. They want him to be more Harvey-like. And Donna is the only person who is fighting for that part of Mike. Donna and Mike are also from outside of this world. Yeah. And she wants to preserve that in him because I personally, I'm mommy in this scenario, And she wants to preserve that in him because I personally, I'm mommy in this scenario,

I personally want Mike to still be able to be who he is. So I think when Donna sees him making these choices from his heart, she feels it too, right? It's like a thing that they have in common that they lead with their hearts. Similar to our lives together. To our little touching. You know, just keeping each other soft. Keeping each other soft. Real and tender. But it's a great question. Thanks for noticing that, Gabby. I think it's also something that I already touched on this episode, which is that, you know, she's got a long road,

Donna, in terms of helping Harvey to become a little bit more in touch with his heart and his integrity and who he truly is, whereas Mike is coming in with it and she just doesn't want him to lose it. Right. I think that's true. Thank you for that question. Love it. So Harvey got the hotel merger back on track, Unfortunately at Scottie's expense there at the Harvard Club Harvey meets Scottie and she reveals that she's getting engaged

Just a beautiful scene. It's so this whole relationship the whole setup is such a huge win of this episode you know not only is it this amazing mock trial that I think does so much, but I just think this relationship is so interesting and so complex. And, you know, it reveals this part of Harvey that we haven't seen before, the way he hugs her as she's walking out. It's just like, it's all so heartbreaking in that, you know, this is an episode about people and people changing and what are they willing to change

and you're in this scene and you get faced with this, we can't change, you know, that we're not gonna change this part of ourselves, not now, not today. Like we're accepting who we are and that this is how it is and we are these people and we will always be these people. It leaves us with an ache, you know? And I think Abigail, she leaves us really feeling for her

and really needing more of her. I mean, it's without a doubt gonna become a big part of the show. She's so good, she's so good in this episode. Meanwhile, the associates are out celebrating. Rachel thanks Mike for how he handled the trial and she confesses that she was so hard on him this week because she expects more from him than most people.

Oh really, wait. And he says why, and what does she say? You're a smart guy. You can figure it out. I got chills in that part. It was great, perfectly delivered by Megan. Just a great performance, and it was like, in an episode where we finally felt for Mike and Jenny,

and we were like, they're pretty damn cute together. That's pretty great. It's a very strong way to end the episode because you're like, oh damn, that's a pretty powerful relationship too. I don't know how I feel, I'm struggling. Yeah, it's tough. I know we don't wanna do teams.

We don't do teams, we can't do teams. We don't do teams here, but it's hard because life is hard and there's two roads that are opening up for our young guy, Mike, and it's tough. that are opening up for our young guy Mike and it's tough. This is again perfect setup this whole show is about which way what kind of person you want to be, what life do you want, who are you gonna be and here's like you know Mike's version of what Harvey just had in the Harvard Club which life do you want? This life or this life? Who would you want to share

that life with? And they both seem to represent, you know, different paths. Look at what this episode did. Like from the macro right down to the micro. So you're talking about how expertly delivered that last line is and how well-written it is. And we have a million specific lines

that we could put on the list of favorite lines. But then what it knit together overall, that theme in an episode that actually at times made us legitimately laugh out loud. Like you, I really laughed out loud during it, but also I'm leaving with this ache because Scotty's going back to London and they're gonna keep missing each other and they can't get out of their own way. That kind of thing. It's what we've been talking about though, like what episode is this? Seven, Lucky Seven.

We're in episode seven of the first season of a show and it's just going. Like I get it. Again, we've talked about it before. I was worried to start doing this. I was worried that every week I'd be like, oh God, I gotta watch another. This is hard and I'd have to do all this

sort of putting armor on and getting over my own insecurities. I'm like, I watched this and I'm like, this is really good. Yeah. And I hate to sound surprised, but I kind of, I'm just so proud of everyone and honored to be a part of it. I asked, I texted Aaron last night about this.

He said, Erica was such an incredibly special writer. I think Play the Man stepped up season one to another level, no doubt. Definitely. Agreed. I think there was a really special magic in having the mock trial. Bring the whole firm together, just knit it all together so that we can see it as one organism and not just a typical A, B, C storyline. The storylines aren't that disparate in this one. We're not spending a lot of time on a case in that way outside of the firm. And that brought an intimacy to it, like a family reunion would, or like a wedding

episode or a Christmas episode, a holiday episode where everybody's together. I think that was really special. Um, I'm also a little bit Team Jenny right now. Woo. Contraditional. I said it, but just, just for now, it's just for the moment. I'm going to be fickle and go back and forth on that. I love that our two heroes, Mike and Harvey, were terrific in this episode, just so great, but really, I really, really especially loved how often they were going toe to toe

with a female counterpart who really had a chance to shine and be of equal status, right? And have equal screen time, have equal line counts, probably, if I looked at it closely. The banter is just unbelievable. And Erica, if you're listening, you know, I've been saying this for over a decade. Can I please come work with you again?

Yeah, give us jobs. We love jobs. All right, well, that's it. You, before we close out? Let's get a guess on the goddamn count for the week. What are you going? What do you want? I'm gonna go zero on this. Patrick's on a bit of a streak. Stop it. Yes I was just I feel like erica I can imagine erica kind of sneakily being like we're not gonna do any I don't know. Yeah, that feels right. So what is that? What are we up to total?

Well, still 18. I didn't remember last week. I'm living hour to hour. I live life a quarter mile at a time. Okay, well that's case closed on Play the Man. Thank you all so much for coming back and please join us next week for a new episode. Make sure to rate, review, and subscribe. It is such a great and important way for you to support the show. And as always, we want to hear from all of you. If you have questions, thoughts, or ideas, please send your emails to sidebarpodcast at SiriusXM.com.

And if you want to record an audio clip of the question, go for it. We would love to play it on the show. Have a great week, everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you. And see you next time. Thank you. Let's touch one more time. week everybody. Thank you. See you next time. Thank you. Let's

touch one more time. With honesty. Touch you. It's too much. Bread. And cue the bread. Cue the bread. Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams, and Sirius XM Media. Our senior producer is Kimmy Gregory, and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader. Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez, and our music is by Brendan Burns. Our executive producers are Cody Fischer and Colin Anderson.