Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast - The Shelf Life

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

Theories abound as Sarah and Patrick dive into S1 E10 - The Shelf Life. What kind of favor did Harvey do for a judge? What did Louis say to get clocked by his date? Why didn’t we ever use that building entrance again? They have no idea but the guesses will shock you. They also break down the famous "Life's like this, I like this" Harvey scene and of course discover even more "Rick Should Have Won An Emmy" moments. But first, Patrick gives us an update on his face bump, and Sarah talks about the Herbal Essences commercial that changed her life.  Email us a voice memo of your questions about Suits at [e-mail]. We may use it on the show!Follow us on Instagram & TikTok - @suitssidebarGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/sidebar

Hi guys, before we begin this episode, we just want to take a moment and acknowledge what's been happening here in Los Angeles over the past several days. I'm sure no matter where you are in the world, you've already heard the news and seen some of these horrifying images of these devastating fires that have already consumed so much of Los Angeles over the past week. Well, Sarah and myself and Kristen and Kimmy and so many of the people that work on Sidebar call Los Angeles our home and we are so grateful to report that so far our families are safe and our homes are intact. But the truth is we all know far too many people

who have lost so much so quickly. Our hearts go out to everyone who has been affected, those who have lost their homes, their communities, and tragically in too many cases, their loved ones. We also want to say how deeply grateful we are to the firefighters and first responders who are working day and night to contain these fires while saving lives and protecting property.

And we also want to say a big thank you to all of the volunteers who are filling shelters with their time and efforts and donations across LA County. This episode you're about to listen to was recorded before these events unfolded and while it may not directly address the immense challenges we are facing right now or live up to the moment at all, we just hope it offers a brief moment of comfort or connection or at the very least escape. If you're looking for ways to help support the victims and their families during this trying moment, then we will be posting

on our social media channels some good places to give or donate. And to those listening in Los Angeles or anywhere impacted by these fires, we just want you to know that we are standing with you, stunned and heartbroken, and in time, ready to rebuild. Stay safe guys, and please enjoy the episode. Every Christmas night there's a white elephant in our family. So fun. And it is a thing. Yeah. And we actually have a competition of who can wrap their thing the sh**iest.

And when you're my grandmother wrapped it in like paper towel and put the string from the roast beef around it in a bow. Like she was so, it was so gross. It was so funny. It was so funny. She was so good. But last night there was a $30 limit on the white elephant and I didn't have time to go figure out a $30 gift.

So I gave something that was not a $30 value, which was Crepe race. Crepe race. So I gave like, so I put like a whole regimen and that got fought over. Got fought over. People were excited. Like yeah, there was stealing. This is the year I started a regimen.

I don't have a regimen. I'm starting it. On your beauty? Anything, I don't do anything. Can I tell you something? What? I don't even really like use soap on my face other than in the shower. Tell me you use soap.

Like I just like do a quick scrub of it all, but I don't at night have like a specific foaming cleanser that I follow up with a- Well, you're so lucky. You don't have like any problems with the makeup that you have to wear or anything. I do a hot towel at the end of the day with some cleanser. Oh, that's not true. And you never had acne?

That's not true. There's cleanser on set. So if I'm working, I'll take a squeeze of something something put it on there. Hot towel. And no acne. Brush my teeth. Go to bed. What? Do you wear moisturizer? No. What? Never? Never. Then you shouldn't start because there's something about the barrier of your skin that is in perfect balance that means you should not start to put stuff on it. You know what Trion got them? What? One of those. Like a laser thing? She bought like one of these like, Chinese, no we've had that for a while.

She got one of these little sucker things. Oh for your pores. That has the camera in it. So you can see while it's sucking the pores, like close up. So you're pulling it along your nose. Can they sponsor our podcast? And you see it tight.

You see each one just like kind of rip it coming out. It is so satisfying. So satisfying, but it's very powerful. Very powerful. And you can't, yeah. That if you keep it in the same place for like more than two seconds, you get really red. Rudolph, Rudolph knows.

Wait, do you need to have two? Like, can you share it? I mean, that's probably too much information for our guests. But if not that this is gonna make it's good. Do you need to have two? Like, can you share it? I mean, that's probably too much information for our guests, but not that this is gonna make it on air, I don't know. We're just here talking. Yes, yes, she's like, it's a going live. We're live actually, we're live right now. I don't even know if this thing is on.

We're in every car that has SiriusXM right now. Also, just to give everybody an update on the bump on my face. Oh. 2025, check the bumps on your face. I had this thing under my lip and it's been there for weeks and it wasn't growing. You had to get your bumps checked. It wasn't growing. It was just like a little thing and I was like ignoring. I mean, I was

on camera and no one noticed it. That's how small it was, but I could feel it was there. And then yesterday I felt it awaken. Seize. And that freaked me out. And so I was talking to you about wanting to go to the doctor or whatever. Well, it turns out it got home. Popped it.

I worked it a bit. Oh, oh, it hit the mirror? Did it hit the mirror? No, no, no, not that bad. But it was something, it's just weird. It took weeks to become it. Is this the content that our listeners have been asking for? I, it's interesting.

I think we have to keep this in, cause we need to know. What happened to the bump? Check your bumps. Yeah. Check your bumps, everybody. Check your bumps. 2025 check your friends bumps. Check your friends bumps, check your bumps.

Check the bumps. Can you just tell me if this bump looks infected? I would love to see. Please show me more. Yeah. Well, and? I would love to see please show me more Yeah, well, and now I made an appointment make me worry about laser about something Oh on Monday, which I you told me to do and now I have an appointment But I don't have anything to laser so I gotta find something else in my body to go. What are you going to a doctor? Yeah, yeah as a dermatologist, then you keep that really hills dermatologist

And you keep that appointment and you get a full body check. Oh yeah, I'll do that. That's what you're doing at your appointment. But I want something fun too. Like you wanna get a laser, you wanna laser something? You wanna get me a laser, inject something, I don't know, I don't know anything about this.

You should get like a lot of injections in your lips. Okay. That'll look good. This is good, going to 2025 with real plump, like, yeah. luscious lips. Plump, Plump. Well, this is the kind of content you came for, and it's the kind of content you'll get.

Hi everyone, welcome to Sidebar, a Suits Watch podcast. My name is Patrick Adams. And my name is Sarah Rafferty, and we both were on Suits, but we never really watched it until now. Until now. And this week we watched season one, episode 10, Shelf Life. But before we dive in... I think we dove in.

We definitely dove in. The diving has occurred. You know, we're going to recut that, put the bumpers in there. I think we're going into sidebar uncensored. Sidebar after dark. Skinimax. Did you ever do, no you were. Do Skinimax?

Like what? You were a little older than me, so. Where's this going? Do you feel, are you scared? Just the nighttime, like your parents are upstairs in bed and you've got the HBO. That is how you learn about everything. So you were, but like, you weren't still living with your parent. I don't... What? Just go, go direct. I'm thinking like, Dream On. Dream On. Remember HBO Dream On? No. There we go. So you were not,

that for a young, for a young man at that time, that was like a very sexy show on HBO and that was what we would do. Does anyone else remember Dream On? No one remembers Dream On? Wow. This got weird really quick. Can we talk about the Canadian television? How it turns pretty hot and heavy at night? I feel like I do know that somewhere in my brain but I don't really know it.

But like, it rings a bell for me that that's true. Have you ever had an orgasm on television? Thought you were just gonna end it. Especially with this episode where there's so much made of Mike's virginity. Have you ever had an orgasm? I did. I have had to do that a number of times. Yeah. And I don't, well you did it famously in a shower.

What are we talking about? You're like one of the more famous public orgasms. I don't know if it's famous. I just think it was more. You're right up there with When Harry Met Sally in terms of cultural orgasms. You don't think, you don't see that? That is the biggest compliment I have ever been paid. Especially for like a generation of people for whom that might have been the first, the herbal essence. You don't know this. It's like a foundational moment in that shower because it's like, what is happening? Why is she, she's really enjoying that shampoo.

Like that was the moment. That was a sexual awakening for a lot of people. Like, like anybody you know. I don't know, maybe not. I don't know if anybody I know. Wow. Yeah, like, because I would have know if anybody I know. Wow. Yeah, like, cause I would have seen that pre

and it's on my TV over and over again. So I would have seen that commercial pre like when Harry Met Sally. Really? I think so. Even though it was a, it was a satire, like a satire of the satire of that. Yeah, but like yours, a commercial's on all the time.

And when Harry Met Sally. This one was on a lot. Yeah, when Harry Met Sally is, you know, you've watched it once a year, if that. It was the last commercial that was aired right before the last Seinfeld. It was like, it was like that commercial and then it went blank and it went right into the last Seinfeld.

That's cool. That's fitting. That's the biggest moment of my life. That's fitting. Well, except this moment right now with me. Right? I want to say touch tips, but not after that conversation right there.

I feel like that wouldn't be appropriate. That would be gilding the lily. That would be pushing the envelope. What is it? We don't want any Yahtzees. Yahtzees. It's Klatsis. Klatsis. Klatsis. No. Oh boy. Okay, so I just want to say this. I think that was good.

We've checked in. It's time to go into the episode. Shall I begin? Today we're breaking down season one, episode 10, Shelf Life. This episode was written by Sean Jablonski, who listeners of the pod will know was our sort of co-show runner for the first season. And it was directed by Jennifer Getzinger

and originally aired on Thursday August 25th 2011. And in this episode Harvey must fire an employee of Pearson Hardman's accounting firm for lying on his resume. Even though Mike finds a more sinister motive for the termination, it brings his own precarious lie to the forefront. We've got some facts from our firm's best researcher Kiki. The shoot dates July 14th to the 22nd, 2011. Episode 104 aired, Dirty Little Secrets aired on July 14th while shooting. Jennifer Getzinger, our director, she was a script supervisor on Mad Men

before her directing debut on that show and she went on to direct 10 episodes and earned three DGA awards. Wow. And she did two episodes of Suits, I believe. And we'll get into her, but I wish she did about 50 more. I think she's amazing and she's gone on to have just an incredible career.

And the tracks are back this week. We have eight songs on our soundtrack this week. And also just lots of composition that was phenomenal. So it'll be fun to talk about that. I definitely noticed that. I loved that we had these songs and this composition because this episode was on fire. This was an incredible episode for you.

Yeah, give me your opening statement. What do you got? Patrick, you are on fire in this episode, the pacing and the specificity and everything. I'm just, I'm really eager to hear what you remember from this, because this is a really great Mike episode. This one feels a lot like the pilot to me

in terms of the pace and the humor and all that it is asking from you in particular as an actor. And my question is, is this the first time that we really start to kind of worry that Jessica is having a weird, spidey sense about Mike? Is that when we really lay this in? Because I feel like we're starting with this episode

to really gear up to some kind of cliffhanger-y finale. Right. Like this is the beginning of the ramp. You can feel the stakes in this episode a lot more, I feel like, and that's part of it, I think is Jessica's kind of on the hunt. We realize, I'm reminded in this episode of this secret, which has kind of been in the show,

but we kind of have disappeared. It's gone a little bit case to case. Yes. Feel like the last few episodes. Totally. And now in this episode, I'm reminded like, oh oh things are tenuous. Like this could be really bad and like it's not like everyone's on the same team. And I think it's a really helpful time for it in the show and it makes for an excellent episode. Thank you for your kind words. I am proud of this episode. It's

hard for me to say, but I was watching it and I didn't really have too many cringey moments. And as I was watching it, I was exploring that. I was trying to figure out what, now why? Why are other episodes harder for me to watch and what is going on in this? I think it has a lot to do with Jennifer and some things that she was doing, which I really appreciated as an actor being filmed by her.

I was like, oh, like that. Do you remember them? Well, yeah, they're really what I thought she was doing so beautifully, and other directors do it too, but she was lingering on moments that weren't talking. You see, you're living with a lot of Mike in this episode and other people too, but because we're dealing with Mike's sort of internal struggle as it relates to the case here,

you see his machinery working behind the eyes. And I feel like for whatever reason now watching this, Jennifer was telling a lot of Mike's story just on my face registering things. I don't remember the shooting of it. I don't remember if we were really having conversations about that, if she was directing me in those directions. I wish I did, but you can tell either way, it was a value to her. It was something she was focusing on. And so as an actor, I'm actually enjoying that, that it's not just about what I'm saying,

which on this show is a big deal because Erin's a great writer and you don't have a lot of time and you gotta see the word. You gotta get the word said and you got to see them. So I think she just did a masterful job of living with characters in the moments when they're not speaking. But anyway, opening statement is, I think everybody did a wonderful job on this episode

and we're excited to talk about it. So should we dive in, teaser? Yeah, teaser. We glide in on Jessica Harvey and Louis at a Black Tie event. Louis introduces himself to the future Mrs. Lit, and Harvey meets this week's client, Tori. The script starts with the waiter offering champagne. None of this Black Tie conversation is scripted.

What? Kiki found out all of them. When does it start? What does he say? Black Tie, Grey Tie, the chit chat. Oh, that whole thing. The chit chat is so great. Yeah. The first line is the waiter coming up and offering them champagne.

Oh, amazing. I love that. People throwing off script. We like it. And it's always nice to see our friends in black tie. Life can be so cruel by leopard lounge groove. Just want to shout out our music in this episode because there's some good stuff. And yes, you're right. So good. These people being sexy on a rooftop. Yeah, so there's a point in the scene where I don't know that this is true,

so I do not wanna cast aspersions. But I swear I feel like Gabriel is actually kind of a little bit laughing when Lewis says it's pheromones and women find it irresistible and then he does the most ridiculous check his breath move. Like, oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Of course he's laughing. It was a lot. Oh gosh. Yeah, it was. Oh, oh, oh, whoa, whoa. No, no, no. Cutting. I just hate that I don't know the word. That's what my experience is.

No, go ahead. You were saying, you were saying about Gabriel laughing. Can you not laugh? I mean, when did we? He had to just work it in. Well, yeah, you can't not laugh at him. And Gabriel got the giggles a lot. Yeah.

When you got into Gabriel, especially Rick, had a certain effect on him. Once it started, it did not stop. I mean, there were times when he would giggle in later seasons when he just had to be like, okay, wait, you know what? Actually can you like turn around? Like I can't even now I can't look at your face.

Can you turn around and say your lines and I'll say them to the back of your head. And then something like this, it would probably on the reverse on Gabriel, he'd probably be like, don't just don't do it. Don't do your hand thing. Because I will not be able to not laugh. Right, right. Or do it way less. Right, so we should explain that.

We talked about this a little bit in one of the mailbag, one of the In Chambers episodes, but when the camera turns around, so when the camera is off of Rick and just on Gabriel, there is a likelihood that Gabriel was like. Could be like dial it down. Right, but you could see his hands. Yeah, he's doing it, but you know what I mean,

and I don't know if he actually did it in the scene, but it would not be crazy in a situation with Gabriel if somebody was doing something really funny. That he'd be like, I'm not gonna be able to make it through. Yeah, you can't do it all the way. Give me 50%, not 100%. Yes, yes. And not just Gabriel, I think that we've all

probably been there. All been there, yeah. He's just a particularly good giggle monster. Oh, gosh. Yeah. I love the contrast of this scene to the next one. Mike and Jenny getting hot and heavy in Mike's apartment. Chemistry. Wow. I don't know what to tell you. I really am a huge Vanessa Ray fan.

And she's a delight. She's a delight and she was so easy to work with. And it's just, you know, chemistry is often thought of this mystical thing that either happens or doesn't happen between people. In my experience, it's like, if you're two cool people that like just are ready to make the most of a scene and like be open and have fun,

you're gonna have chemistry, right? And that's my experience with her. She's just so cool. I love seeing these characters together. And right off now I'm rooting. I'm like, oh, they're great. I'm rooting and I'm tooting. Look at them being cute.

You're tooting? Well. I'm rooting tooting. No, I do root. I am rooting. I don't pick teams, but I like this team. It's a good team. So Harvey calls Mike in and this week's case, guys, it hits close to home. This is the case of the week.

It just dropped in. Pearson Hardman's accounting firm has a problem. One of its senior VPs, Stan Jacobson, lied on his resume. He didn't go to college or get the necessary licensing. Does this sound familiar? Harvey and Mike are going to have to fire him. TITLE CARD Here we go. TITLE CARD Uh oh. TITLE CARD Yeah. TITLE CARD Ruh-roh.

TITLE CARD Just the end of a teaser and it's game time. TITLE CARD Excellent. So we're into act one. TITLE CARD Jenny brings Mike a suit to Pearson Hardman. After being refused entry, she asks Rachel to deliver the suit. This is a great scene. I mean, Megan and Vanessa are so great in this. There is not a hint of competition. It is very full, but they keep it really classy.

Totally. And mature. And I feel like, yeah. Yeah. They keep it really classy and mature. That's where it is. It would have been so easy for that scene to be played with a little bit of like, who are you? Yeah. And what are you doing here? like, yeah. They keep it really classy and mature. That's where it was. It would have been so easy for that scene to be played with a little bit of like,

hey, who are you? What are you doing here? Yeah, yeah, and none at all. Like Jenny's so happy to see her. And Rachel is asked to do something that is a little awkward, but she does it with a smile on her face. Like it's all good.

Yeah, yeah. What is it with that entrance to that building? I never used that entrance. That's the other side that I never used that entrance. That's the other side that I never used. We only ever used it when I, like, biked up to it. So we've only used it a few times, yeah. It didn't get a lot of love.

I think they made it so that we weren't allowed to use it in later seasons. I think we had parameters. I think we did, we were bad girls and boys. I think we did some things wrong. Wrong? I do remember one particular story that I don't know we're allowed to tell. Tell it.

Tell it, we can cut it later. We can cut it. Tell it, we can ask. In the first season at some point, I remember we were shooting there late night, and then I remember a big kerfuffle and a lot of people running around. I was like, what's going on?

And some crew member, I don't know who, I don't know in what department, had on the facilities. Tinkled? No, the other. Oh. Number dos. No. A crew member?

On the property. A crew member? Yeah, on the property, like behind a garbage can or something. Oh, it was an emergency? I guess. I don't know. I don't want to speak to what was going on for that person, but I do know that after that moment, we were on a sort of, we were on,

we were in detention with this building. I don't know. Yeah. And it's weird to talk about it because it was, I was instructed for so long to never talk about it. It was like such a, on set it was like, we don't talk about it, nobody talks about it.

So yeah, that happened. But yeah, does he call her, what does he call her when she walks in? Didn't love that. I love that you- Doll, called her doll. I love that you are noticing that. You wrote here, times up.

Times up security guard. Doll, hey doll, right? I don't know. I appreciate that you're noticing those things. I'm like, what? Get out of here. And that she has no reaction. I'm like, no, you tell him no. Doll, get out of here. It's okay. So then Rachel heads upstairs. If somebody called me doll today, I don't know that I'd tell him no. Okay, you'd like it? That's a good thing to know. I don't know that I have to tell him no. Okay, you like it? I don't know, it depends on intention. And we'll get to that later. Oh yeah.

He was talking down to her. Right. If you walked in and was like, hey doll, how are you this morning? Oh, I might get a little warm. Yeah, we're like, we're nice. This guy's talking down to her and telling her. It's like, hey bub, hey bubs. This guy's putting up walls.

Not tearing them down. Hashtag feminism. Rachel finds Mike sleeping in the file room. You have a quibble for this scene. What do you got? Oh, this scene. Okay, so Rachel finds Mike sleeping. Mike's under the desk. I love that. She comes in, she brings him the suit, and then he goes to change, and she goes to leave, and then the camera catches her looking back to see him changing, and then he catches her looking, and

then she hightails it out of there. This is my quibble. Ladies, ladies in the booth. What do you think? I don't think she would have lingered to see him change. I think she would have extra hard acted like she wasn't interested in seeing him change. She would have like extra specially been like, oh yeah, cool, bye. I'm just gonna like get out of here. I'm gonna skedaddle real, real quick.

Like, I don't care. Right? But you would have had to see her see it. Like that's what the, we needed to see her see it again. We don't need any of this scene, I'll be very clear. But what is the thought it seems is we just need to see her just have a moment of some sort. And you're saying the moment was too much.

I would like, I could see her being like, oh, he's starting to change. I'm gonna, wow, I'm gonna whip around and I'm out of here and I can have a private moment of the camera catching my face as I walk away. But not looking back like, ooh, I wanna see what's going on under there. That didn't feel.

No, it didn't. Right? I feel like we could cut. I'm getting 100% from Kimmy in the booth. Cut this scene entirely, maybe. I don't know. I kind of feel like she's not in control of her factions because she really likes this guy and she's fighting it really hard.

So the part of me thinks that maybe she would do that. Got it. What are her factions? A factions. She's from Tennessee. She said factions. I said factions. Faculties.

Her faculties. Factions. Oh. Faculties. Factions. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I hate this scene.

I'm not letting... I'm... Nope. Well, no, I just do. Nope. I'm allowed to hate it. Uh-uh. No, no, I'm allowed to. I'm allowed to. This is a no-and.

No, I hear you and I appreciate you. What I'm saying is I don't need a shirtless Mike Ross in this show. I don't need it. It's not the point of this character. I don't want a shirtless Mike Ross in this show. I don't need it. It's not the point of his character. I don't want to be shirtless. I want to be covered in thick Canadian layers. That's how I'm best. Served.

That's how I'm best served is layered. And so I don't like it. I don't want it. And that is the end of my story. Okay, I'm gonna hold space for you to not like it and not want it, but I am not holding space for any criticisms. Okay, I didn't say anything, I just said I don't like it.

Don't talk about my friend like that. Okay, fair enough. Don't talk about my friend like that. We should do a naked pod one time though. I'm naked from here on out. I'm totally naked. Our bathtub pod, this year it's happening. I don't see why we wouldn't do it in the bathtub

except for sound, but like, what the sound could be soothing. What the sound could be, yeah. It could be like a dreamscape. Kimmy's giving us that producer nod. She's like, yeah, yeah, totally guys, whatever you want. We're a hun. Sure. No bathtub pod.

We could do it, I feel like mud bath would be okay, because that would absorb the sound. Yeah. Mudding, we should do it. I think I feel like mud bath would be okay because that would absorb the sound. Yeah. Mudding we should do it. How about just a really weird, how about we find a really weird hotel in Los Angeles where we can get HPV doing the podcast. You want HPV? I can get you HPV by three o'clock. Let's get back in. Mike brings all the files to Harvey, but the background check is missing. Mike has to get it fast. I think Gabriel and I are like in a groove in this episode. You are. I agree.

You can tell when I'm in a good mood. There's a couple of episodes ago where you could tell I was not in a good mood. And watching it, did it make you not in a good mood? Maybe, maybe that too, but you could just tell when I'm like, you can tell when I'm like in step with the director and when I'm feeling it and when I'm like getting it and then when I'm not. And I feel like in this episode,

you can see both Gabriel and I are like, we're a team. It's funny, but kind of in an effortless way, we're telling the story effectively, we're really talking and listening to each other, so. That's invaluable. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's invaluable.

Yeah, 100%. Okay, so, oh, God, okay, Patrick, we're getting to one of my favorite scenes. Okay. We might even need to watch it. So Mike visits Lewis looking for help, and he gets, like, a lot of TMI. Okay, can we look at this?

Yeah, yeah, let's watch it. I just wanna enjoy this with you. Come in, come in. Um, could you help me with something? I need to get this fax for Harvey. Good morning. Oh my God, Rick's face. His smile. Good morning.

Good morning. You can tell, can't you? I bet you everybody can. He's jiggling. Tell what? Eyebrows. You wax your eyebrows? I was with the most beautiful woman last night. Uh, she waxed your eyebrows? I was with the most beautiful woman last night.

She waxed your eyebrows? We did a lot of things last night and waxing wasn't one of them, if you know what I mean. The jiggle? Oh god, well that's great. I'm here to answer these. We have so much in common. Mike, there was like this... There was like this mmm. Like a chemical thing that would happen when our bodies would touch. I really don't want was like this mm-mm. You know, like a mm-mm. Like a chemical thing that would happen

when our bodies would touch. I really don't want to have this conversation with you. Oh, come on, we're both guys, right? A little locker room talk around the office. I mean, that creates a little male bonding. That's crazy. I just heard my name. Did you hear that? I'm gonna just, one second, okay?

He's probably still a virgin. And that was improv'd. That was improv'd. The virgin? Yeah. Well, no, but the virgin, didn't we just have a virgin. And that was improv'd. That was improv'd. Well, the virgin? Yeah. Well, no, but the virgin, didn't we just have a virgin line before? We did in the previous scene. Yeah.

But then he brought it into here and he wasn't in the previous scene. But he brought it into here and nobody told him that the scene before we had a virgin line? We don't know. I mean, he was at a table read, so maybe he knew. Oh, interesting. Right. But.

Great. Great. I mean, yeah, look, how many, I don't know how many times we can say it on this podcast. Let's say it a couple more times. The man's a genius. Let's say it a couple more times. This guy's a genius. I'm ready to talk about it all day if you want to. I got all day.

We're all working for Rick Hoffman here. Uh, look, he's unbelievable. And it just gets better with age. Do you have the same experience? And familiarity. People love suits, I get stopped all the time, oh my God, thank you, we love the show, can I take a picture?

Almost everybody wants to know about Rick Hoffman, wants to tell me what a genius he is. You were great on the show, but Rick Hoffman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that. And I always kind of hated it, because I'm a human being with an ego, and now that I'm watching the show, I'm like, oh yeah, 100%.

I mean. Love that. Yes, of course. He's on a whole other level. He's doing something that very few people know how to do. So bow down and yes, this scene definitely wins the Rick Hoffman Should Have Won an Emmy Award. And can we go on a little search to see if there's any GIFs that this week could be on the social media

of him doing his little like wiggle or his overbite or his caddyshack little dance? Why don't we do that? Good idea, why don't we do that offline? No, I'm not suggesting we do it now. You want to do it right now? Let's all just take a minute, we're going to go GIF hunting right now. That was going through the edit machine. I was... I know, and you didn't say it, which I'm proud of you.

I'm proud of you. I'm so used to it being said. No, actually now you guys leave that in. I insist, I'm gonna be mad. Are we in a fight? We're in a fight. We're in a fight. Good, I'm so mad at you.

Let's move on. Mike Locate stands background check and then greets him in the lobby and brings him into Harvey's office. After being presented with the facts of the situation, Stan insists that he's being railroaded and walks out before accepting his severance. John Billingsley.

John Billingsley, who you of course know as Dr. Flock's, the Denobulan Chief Medical Officer of Enterprise, NX01 from Star Trek Enterprise, as we all know and love him from. Where I said, I just need to check in. How are you? Oh, you can check in. Yep, I remember the minute I saw John Billingsley

on the call sheet of the show. I was like, oh damn, here we go. What did you feel and where did you feel it? Okay, truthfully, I wasn't a huge Star Trek Enterprise fan. I was a next generation guy and an original Star Trek guy. So I had watched the episode. I knew he's, the thing that Star Trek was so good at doing, if we wanna have a little Star Trek moment here,

is the best actors in the world would go and work on Star Trek. Patrick Stewart, like the show was really good at hiring like classically trained, amazing actors. And John Billingsley, as demonstrated by his work in this episode is one of the best. He's so good. He's so good, it's impossible.

And he was wonderful on the show on Star Trek Enterprise and we were lucky to have him. And I loved this casting because the minute I laid eyes on him, I mean, first of all, you do the, oh my God, that guy, that guy, that guy, I love that guy. You do that and maybe you don't know his name because he's that journeyman actor that you know so well.

He's definitely a that guy. He's a that guy. But I was like, oh, oh, oh, I'm intrigued now about the story of what went wrong because there's nothing nefarious going on here. That guy didn't do anything nefarious, like from laying eyes on his face. Like he didn't do anything wrong.

No, this is a good guy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's just like, oh, but that's, don't look at me like I'm stupid. I'm not, I'm looking at his credits right now. Oh. Sorry, it's nothing to do with you.

So then he, the best thing happens is that you take him into Harvey's office and this moment about the balls in Harvey's office the joy that he brings into the room it's unbelievable. I reround that section. He loves his balls. So good. Anyway we head into act two and Jessica's office Harvey brings Jessica and Tori up to speed. Tori is furious but Harvey suspects that she is hiding something. Jessica instructs Harvey to close the deal. We have the wonderful Andrea Parker here who also plays Vanessa Ray's mom on Pretty Little Liars. Amazing. Didn't know that.

Yes. Harvey meets Mike in the bullpen. Mike is diving into Stan's suspicions, but Harvey tells him to go home. Jessica's not happy with him. Oh yeah, I really appreciate appreciated the scene before Harvey stands up for Mike. Yeah, he does. We haven't seen that a lot. He usually sides, he usually loves to give Mike a berating, you know, and teach him lessons.

But it's nice to see him really stand up for Mike. Well, I think that it's because he is starting to sweat it a little bit. Interesting, yeah. And that's making him defensive of Mike and then extra hard on Mike at the same time. Yeah, it's a great call. He doesn't want Jessica coming at him. Jessica comes after him. No, no, no.

It's going to get Gabriel. It's going to get Harvey too. But then, yes, of course, you're right, the flip side of this coin is he goes right in to the bullpen and pulls Mike out and gives him a talking to. So I think this is such a great, I was saying especially that it's a great episode for you, but it is such a great episode for Gabriel. Get into it more from this point on, but that he has the opportunity

to be struggling with this thing. And what Gabriel does so well is he can do it so, so, so subtly. Yeah. Well, it's great too, because Gabriel has such a big heart. So this is great. And so, you know,

we'd hopefully get Gabriel on here to talk about the process of playing Harvey Specter, but he's more of a Mike Ross guy. Like he has empathy. He believes in feeling things and having empathy and relating to people. And so it's interesting to watch a scene where he has to tell me to

stop feeling empathy for every client and just do the job and pay attention to the evidence because it's filtered through a guy who doesn't 100% believe what he's saying. He's a great actor. He can do it, but I think Harvey to some extent can't be that much of an automaton either. So Harvey's having to say something out loud that there's the slightest part of him that's hard to say. Cause he realizes how cold it sounds. And you can feel it in the performance without him having to say a word about it. Yeah, I have some places where I want to point it out,

I think coming up. Harvey finds Stan on the street, presents him with a choice, a lawsuit or the severance agreement. Tough scene. Yeah, this is tough. I mean, obviously Harvey is forced to over-correct a little bit after the Jessica conversation. I think it did make him nervous in some way.

It's hard to see him being so tough on such a winning character that is in the same predicament that Mike is in, so he can seem heartless. Well, I think you're right though. I mean, it's a tough, you don't, we don't like to see Harvey do this, especially like. We haven't seen that much. Just someone so nice.

Yeah. But at the same time, and this is, I'm more in your camp, but then I'm watching it and I'm like, story wise, this really helps. Harvey is trying to be the version of himself, the people that just the closer, get it done. I have no feelings. He's like trying to do it. Yeah. And he can, I have no feelings. He's like trying to do it.

And he can do it well. He's really good at doing it. And as demonstrated in the scene, he knows exactly how to play the chess game to get him. But he's struggling. He's struggling and he is not, Gabriel, the actor, is not telegraphing that. He's just living in it and so we get it.

It's so good. He doesn't need to play it. If he were to be playing it, it would be too much. But I think Gabriel has a particular gift in how he understands the camera. What a camera can capture. You know? So he doesn't put a hat on things. But again, Jennifer knows to pick it. Because so often we'll do this stuff in scenes. And then you'll watch the cut and you'll be like, I know, but I gave that little look to him in that moment.

And it's like, well, they're cutting a whole episode together and they didn't see that moment. Like it didn't land and then you're like, oh, I didn't make it, didn't do it well enough or something. Jennifer is seeing all the moments and putting them in. And yes, of course, Gabriel and all of them, I think everybody in this episode is delivering them. Anyway, Jenny shows up at Mike's apartment.

Mike shares his problem, he needs information, but no one is talking. So Mike and Jenny check in at the Harvard Club to get cozy with some lawyers. Oh my gosh. Jenny in this dress. Oh yeah. Taurus?

Do we have a Taurus award? Go ahead, throw it down. This is the winner. This is the winner so far. Nice. You know what? I love the Taurus award so much that I think we can throw it down. This is the winner. This is the winner so far. Nice. You know what? I love the Torres Award so much that I think we can throw it down a couple of times

if we need to. 100%. If we're called upon to throw it down, we throw it down. 100%. Okay. Yeah, we have calories in us. We have nuts in our mouths. Just wait, let me have an almond. Hold on.

You know what? Let me just... I was kidding when I threw it down, all this stuff. If I'm mad at you, you'll know, probably. Oh, I've seen it. You have? Yes. Me mad at you?

Yes. When have I been mad at you? Yes. When have I been mad at you? Oh my god, like this week? What are you talking about? What week do you want to know? No, this week you haven't been mad at me. I've seen you, not mad, but I've seen sharpness. Oh, I have sharpness?

I get frustrated at circumstances and I don't like it. Yeah, or like when I don't like let you finish a sentence, which is, you know what I mean? Like you've gotten like sharp in a good way. Yeah. Yeah, not bad. I mean like mad. Not like long-term mad. Like I'm mad good way. Yeah. Yeah, not bad. I mean like mad. Not like long-term mad. Like I'm mad at you.

No. Have you been long-term mad at me before? Never. Never. Do you remember the time I came up to you when you were avoiding me because you were going to quit Suits? And I was like, you're avoiding me. I'm not mad at you. I think you're making the right decision for your life and I love you. Oh, well that was just a tough time. That's a whole other pod. How many other pods do we have now?

We writing them all down? Okay. Hold on, I just have to finish chewing, but I think it's gonna be better for all of us. That she has some nuts in her? I just wanna take this moment to say hi to the guy in Greenland. We hope you're still with us.

I don't like that we've gendered the Greenland listener. Oh, why did I think it's a guy? I don't know. Whoa. I need to take a look at that. I appreciate that. Thank you for your reflection. You ready?

So then Harvey visits a Judge Morrison in night court. He has a favor to ask him. I like to see Harvey in like a night court. He's like down in the... He's got friends everywhere. He's down in the depths of the city doing his, you know, he was the spirit, right? Harvey was the superhero. He's down there mingling with the people.

I like that everybody owes him something. What do you think Anthony did that Harvey helped him with? What do you think in the middle of the night Anthony needed help with? Yeah. What do you think? It's gotta the night Anthony needed help with? Yeah. What do you think? Uh, it's gotta be something sex worker related for sure. Really? You guys went there?

What do you think it is? I would have gone to like sexual harassment first or that he was, oh, like sending photos? Not in the middle of the night. That feels like a daytime problem to me. Oh, you're looking for a nighttime. You robbed a bank. A nighttime problem. Yeah, it's gotta be a nighttime problem.

How many nighttime problems are there? Maybe, hey, let's not, why are we gendering the sex worker? I didn't say a gender. Oh God, now I'm gendering him. Damn it. I need to tell you how sweet Kimmy is. She just said,

why are we assuming it's Judge Morrison? Maybe he has a child who needed help. Oh, that's true. Yes. In the middle of the night though? Like, oh, like a grown child. Yeah, like his child snuck out. Whatever it is, it's a sex worker.

His child snuck out and got drunk or something, or his child then was taken away to the paddy. What is it? Excuse me? I think she's trying to say paddy wagon. The nuts. Paddy wagon? Nuts having kicked in. Yeah, Mike runs into Lewis, who's on a date.

As off-putting as it is to Mike to see Louis engaging romantically, boy is it fun. It's really fun. It's for us as an audience. That's a good point. Like, we haven't seen it. As far as we've known, he's asexual until this episode, and it opens up a whole can of worms that we're going to get a lot more of those worms later on, and I think it's great.

I think it's funny. It begs the question now, wait, who is the right fit for this man? For Lewis? Yeah. It begs the question, who is Lewis? Yeah, who is Lewis? What's he about? What's his private life like? We don't know much about that.

And who's he into? Well, we know too much about some of the details. Yes. Time's up on the description of this woman in the one-liner. In the script, it's fine. What is it in the one-liner? In the one-liner. In the script, it's fine. In the one-liner, it just says, Louis spots a cougar.

I'm enraged. I think this is a danger zone. This is the highway to the danger zone, so we're gonna move right on. Let's pick up where we can... I wanna talk about cougars. ...transition into it. The judge finds what Harvey is looking for,

but it just leads to more questions. Meanwhile, Mike and Jenny leave the Harvard club. Jenny has stolen the ID of a lawyer that Mike had been trying to talk to all night, and he heads to that firm to look through the documents, but he's caught by security. Jenny is? She's maybe a little trouble maker.

I love it. No, she's a problem solver. Yeah, in a good way. The security guard is holding Mike trying to extort Harvey, but it doesn't work. Leaving, Harvey explains a shelf company to Mike. Shout out to Patrick Gallagher, who played the security guard here.

He is, he's a that guy. He is a that guy. He's so good. Especially in Canadian arts and entertainment world. And he's great in this scene. I don't love this scene. I'm like, okay, we get it. Harvey's always ready, right?

Like this scene to me is- Oh, when he brings the money. We've been talking about subtlety. And in this scene, it's like, yet again, Harvey's like, I know your kids and you're gonna go to Little League and you haven't paid your wife a thing. And it's like, oh, get it. It's a little much for me.

But then what I realized is it almost explains, we're seeing a version of an interaction much like the Anthony, the judge. He is like, it's not just I'm getting Mike out of something. I'm creating a relationship with somebody. This is a tit for tat in every single way. I might ask you for something later on. It's real like Godfather-y. I'm creating a relationship with somebody. I'm, this is a tit for tat in every single way. Because he says at the end, like, I might ask you for something later on.

It's real like Godfather-y. Yes. I'll explain the Godfather to you later on. Could you mansplain it to me? Yeah, yeah, I will definitely mansplain it to you. Can you like strum a guitar? While you explain the Godfather to me? And I like seeing that.

I like seeing like, oh, that's how you do business. Like you turn an uncomfortable thing into an opportunity for you later on. Yeah. Anyway, Mike returns to the bullpen to find the associates at his desk watching security footage of Lewis and his date. Things do not go well. Lewis walks in and sees what's happening. What do you think Lewis did?

God, well, how funny was this? I mean, he got smacked in the face and the knee in the balls. And then she comes back and gives him a kick while he's on the ground. I mean, he's definitely just said something. Yes. She got far enough to get to the office. And then, so it's something you say

right before you get on the elevator. Yeah, he called her a cougar. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. She said to him, I would love to see your office, right? She said that to him at the cocktail party at the Harvard club.

Yeah, so he's taking her there. So he's taking her there. And then I think, don't you think he like presumed that something would happen at the office that she wasn't presuming? Oh no, I think she was presuming that. I think she was into it. I just think then he says something to screw it up

and I think you're right, Cougar would do it. I don't think Cougar would do it. Do you? Maybe she's not... Call me a Cougar, see what happens. We're going to offline this. I think if you said it in the right way, especially Louis Lit could find a way to say Cougar. In the worst way possible?

Yeah, like, I've never been with a Cougar before. And she'd just be like, what? And be like, you're a Cougar. And then she'd slap him. And he'd be a cougar. And then she'd slap him. And he'd be like, bad kitty. And then she'd knee him. Wow. You have some, a level of detail.

Yeah. Yeah, maybe he, maybe she slapped him and he thought it was like part of the game. You know what I think? Because one of the things I was thinking about last night when I was wondering what she did, what happened, was that I last night when I was wondering what she did, what happened, was that I do think that he was maybe playing a role play game where he thought he was crushing it and he was...

Took it too far. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's, yeah, we're on the same page. We're on the same page, but... Yeah. You just don't think... But whatever I'm saying is better than what you said. Always. Yeah. That's all I wanted to make sure.

That's assumed. Yeah. Okay, good. We don't even have to say that at all. I mean. Okay, so Jessica and Harvey bring Stan back for a meeting. They want his help taking down the accounting firm. Meanwhile, Rachel finds Mike in the library. Here we go. Big scene.

Talk me through it. What's happening here? Okay. Well, I don't want to talk. I, okay, hang on. I can talk first if you want. What do you want? So what's happening here. Okay. Well, I don't wanna talk, okay, hang on. I can talk first if you want. No, so what's interesting, okay, so this scene is particularly interesting. You guys are in the library.

She reminds you, you're saying you need these documents. You can't have access to them. She figures out what you need them for. Like, do you actually need those documents or do you just need the content of those documents? She figures that out for you and she points to your dome and says, you've got them, they're right in there. And then she offers to type for you

while you rattle them off from your beautiful mind. Then- I got quibbles. Can we just stop right there before we get into the end of the scene? Cause I think it's good to separate the two. Cause this is a big scene, obviously something happens between Mike and Rachel.

But just before we get to that, I got a quibble. A quibble's got a quibble. Where are we at with Mike's brain here, right? And I'm feeling the same frustration I think I felt as an actor. Like, we don't want to play it up. We kind of have stayed away from it. And if we do do it,

it's like almost like a parlor trick that he has sometimes where he can kind of remember a thing. Like with Ben in the last episode, I can remember numbers. Even that was sort of pushing it a bit. Benjamin, it's Benjamin. Benjamin, sorry. We're friends.

I don't know what to tell you. But in this sequence, I'm like, oh, this is an absurd superpower. Like you're telling me, like he legitimately can look at what is what, hundreds of pages of paperwork that he can read instantly and retain all of the knowledge. I understand the show wanted to kind of move away from this because it was like not the point of the show the show was strong enough without it we didn't need this kind of superpower and

I think it was a fun thing at the beginning and I understood why the show was moving away from it but then in a scene like this, I'm like, yo, if he couldn't do this, like, it's so weird to not use it in multiple different ways all the time. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do. Like it's almost, I mean, I know, and this might have to do with, I've never known anyone with photographic memory like this, so I don't also have like a frame of references of it.

Wait, that would be really fun to talk to somebody who has a memory like that. That would be fascinating. Yeah. Like if you can just instantly. Wait, that would be really fun to talk to somebody who has a memory like that. That would be fascinating. Yeah, like if you can just instantly remember things, I would love to talk to that person. But I understand why it's used here. A, it helps them in the case. B, it gives her something to be really impressed by

and be a part of and witness firsthand the super power he has, but it just feels frustrating to me. And I remember as an actor as well, just being like, are we doing this thing or are we not doing it? Because it just feels like we're using it sometimes for like a singular purpose and then it just kind of goes away

and it doesn't become foundational to the show. And this is episode 10 or 11? Oh, this is episode 10, right? So you're at a point, the fatigue sets in, and you've been playing it long enough to be like, what are we doing? Either let's like do more with it,

or let's not do it at all. Yeah, that was sort of how I felt. And the show leaves it behind. I mean, I think we don't really, if from my memory it goes further and further away, but here it comes back strong, and in a really intense, impressive way. Anyway.

You know when you're going through something emotional and it gets real bad before it gets good? Before you're like relieved of it? It's like the show is like, let's just lean in real hard to this and try. And then we'll maybe, we'll either continue or it'll die and this might be the death knell. Is this the death knell? I don't know, I don't know. We'll have to or it'll die. And this might be the death knell. Is this the death knell?

Is that? I don't know, we'll have to see where it goes. It does lead to one of the cringiest lines ever. Give it to me. Your mind is amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much. I mean, props to Megan for delivering.

She, that is a tough assignment when you see that line on the page. And you're like, I gotta deliver this. to Megan for delivering, she, that is a tough assignment when you see that line on the page. And you're like, I gotta deliver this. And I say this, saying the rest of this episode is brilliantly written. That is just a tough line. It's a tough line for after all of that.

Knowing that it's also trying to tee up what's about to happen, which we should get into now. Which is- Yeah, so I have some questions about the very next moment. You know, Mike and Rachel have bonded over this thing. They're helping each other out. Then Mike goes to text to his phone to start texting. She's like, oh, are you texting your girlfriend?

Then you start calling her by name. And then Rachel starts talking about how hard it is with an 80 hour week to be in a relationship. And then you say, well, it's not gonna be hard with my girlfriend, Jenny, and then she kisses you. You're a little... I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm open to all opinions.

And I would like a lot of opinions, even outside of the serious XM studios today, but I'm curious, like, first of all, are we ready for the kiss yet? I think the show's ready for it here. I felt ready for it. I felt ready, I mean, I feel tension. I feel like, oh God, no, it's...

But I also know that's how life works, right? Like, one thing starts happening, other things happen. It's all sort of snowballing at once, but I feel like the show's ready for it. I could have gone maybe a little longer with the Will They, Won't They? Well, it's still... I still feel some Will They, Won't They? This happened, but I don't know that they're doing anything about it. Like, in the next scene, we we see them and they're just like,

hey, that was weird. Like I'm not getting the impression that they're all in. No, and that's a great scene. Right. So I get the, what I like about this scene is it is a surprise, which is often in my experience. It's been a long time since I had an experience like this, but they happen out of nowhere sometimes,

even though there's build up to it. It's like, oh my God, this is the moment that this has happened. And you're sort of, you're both shocked by it. I don't really condemn Rachel. I don't, it feels like they're both caught up in a moment. Like it just happens, which I think is played really nicely. I think it just, there's, as Kiki would say,

they have no control of their factions. I think I get the impression, like I don't walk away from the scene going, like judgments about either of these people. I go, oh, you're in it now. Now you have, now there's gonna be some decisions to make. But I didn't, I personally am not walking away from the scene thinking like anybody's done anything wrong.

No, I was just, no, and I see that. I'm just, hey bro, I'm just here asking the question. No, no, bro. No, I think this is good. I'm wondering, does anybody know how the fans reacted at the time? I think people wanted Mike and Rachel to be together, right? It was, so I think while they were probably like,

ooh, why did you throw Jenny into the mix here? This complicates our feelings. I think I would have to guess that people are fighting for Mike and Rachel to be together at this point. Am I wrong? I was really into the... I was briefly into the Jenny... But like, you know the show wants to put these two people together. Well, 100 percent.

You can feel the show wants Jenny to be a very complicated barrier to it. Yeah. But it's like the show. It's like Ross and Rachel. Not people out there. I'm not comparing myself to friends. We do not think we're better than friends. Last time I said something about another show, we went into the stratosphere.

Oh my gosh. Anyway, I think the show clearly wants Mike and Rachel to be together. They're putting barriers in the way, but I would have to guess that fans were probably stoked. Okay. Well, we'll follow up on that and see, I agree with you. I mean, I can, I'm actually Switzerland. I mean I can I'm actually Switzerland I'm

curious I'm curious I think I would imagine that this was a hard decision to make listen but you're talking to the person who played the character that had a will they won't they for the full for eight years you really got masterclass of it let us know let us know out there fans what do you think act five Mike runs into Rachel in the hallway. Things are a little awkward. Great continuation, we talked about it, but I love that we're not sure.

I do want to say in general, do you find, I always be careful about just talking about people's appearance on this show, but Rachel has like a different vibe in this episode. Does it change? Like her hair, it feels like something shifted and sort of geared up. First of all, I think so. Like her hair, it feels like something shifted and sort of geared up.

First of all, I think the light on her is a little bit different. And I think it does take a second to figure out how to light everybody differently on a TV show as you work your way down the call sheet, you know? And I noticed that there was a shift in her makeup, in the tones, in the palette, on her eyes. There's clearly a shift in her clothes.

So for example, I think we're discovering that her silhouette is going to be the pencil skirt with the shirt look, and the pencil skirt is a high-waisted pencil skirt, and it's long, it's below the knee, and you are right, the skirts have changed. So the difference is that's a more sophisticated look than what you're seeing in these first episodes

when we didn't have Jolie right out of the gate. And also we had that a little bit of a period of transition into Jolie. So they would have had to be ordering the clothes and getting them in. And then now we've landed at this point into a silhouette that is going to become kind of indicative of the Rachel character.

And it is, you're right, it is more elegant and elevated. I think she looks fantastic in this episode. Yeah. I think it's something levels up in a big way. I'm curious to- We may have gotten more time with the tailor and I'm not kidding. Yeah, back to the tailor.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Harvey and Jessica lay out their lawsuit against Tori, Jessica crushing it in the scene. So fun to watch her be the one giving the screws to the bad guy, right? Oh, yeah, totally. And she's a knockout in a black and white outfit. That's so good that she needs to be arrested by the what?

What? The what? I my guess is you're going to say fashion, please. Wow. Sorry. Oh, wait, let's take it back. Let's take it back. That. The Fashion Police. That was like what's the opposite of an orgasm? Jessica's such a knockout in this black and white outfit it's so good that she needs to be arrested by the Fashion Police. Sorry -♪ HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS HONKING HORN BEEPS Stan plays it beautifully when Stan says, I never should have done it. Oh, my God. He's not looking at you. He doesn't look at me. He's just like, yeah.

And it's just... And then he turns on his head. And you're just like, breaks your heart for Mike too, because you're like, I don't want to be this guy. I don't want to be this guy 20 years from now. But Kiki wants you to know you don't have to worry, team, because we are going to find out what became of Stan later in the series.

Thank God. Don't even tell us. Don't tell us when. I'm so glad that we can look forward to that. Oh, my gosh. because we are gonna find out what became of Stan later in the series. So don't get too sad. Thank God, don't even tell us. Don't tell us when. I'm so glad that we can look forward to that. Oh my gosh. Okay, so then Harvey visits Jessica in her office and reminds her of Mike's role in their success. Nice.

Loves to see at the end Harvey, you know, standing up for Mike again. Is this the first time though that we're really, really like having the camera push in on Jessica's spidey sense that something's off about the mic thing? Is this really the first time? Well, would you think she has more spidey sense in this scene or in that earlier scene in the episode?

Well, in this episode. Yes, in this episode. In this scene, she seems to be a bit more convinced that he's an asset, right? Oh, I don't know. Well, what she says, she's like, I guess I should give him more credit. Let's pull it up.

We gotta pull it up. I'm sorry. No, no, we gotta pull it up. You've done this. Now you're gonna watch. I'm gonna have a nut then. Do you want one? Put some nuts in my mouth.

I told you they wouldn't catch me. What are you looking for, Harvey? Positive reinforcement? Nothing major. A trophy, Nobel. Would your likeness in bronze in the lobby be OK? Bust or life size. You did a good thing, Harvey.

It wasn't just me, you know. Well, then I guess I should give the kid the benefit of the doubt from now on. I didn't believe that. You should. Oh, I see what you're saying. And she's taking a note. All right, from now. I didn't believe that. You should. Oh, I see what you're saying. And she's taking a note.

All right, all right, all right, all right. She took a note. You need to chew elsewhere. You're not going to need to chew on that elsewhere. I see your point. Good point. She's still on to me. I'm scared for when she's going to find out. You should be.

Right? You should be very afraid. Mike confronts Harvey in a scene following this. He believes they've made a mistake. Why did Harvey have to hire him in the first place? You love this scene. I think I don't love this scene. Let's get into it.

Let's get into it. So I think it's a great scene. It's a scene that has been a gift. I think this is the scene where Harvey says life is here. Life is this. Life is this. I like this. So I think that moment has been kind of mythologized in the Suits world.

There's a lot of like social media about that moment. And my question for you is, is this Harvey just basically saying that he's an adrenaline junkie and Mike needs to just deal with it or quit? Like, is that what we're supposed to think that moment is? Mike goes to Harvey and says, why did you do this? Mike is really scared. Harvey's acting like he really isn't. And he's saying, like, this is where I like to live my life, on the edge. And I think perhaps, I can't say how people have interpreted this moment,

but I'm thinking the popularity of the moment is that Harvey is at peak coolness. When he says that, it's showing that Harvey is completely disconnected from his partner and disconnected from his own feelings of fear. Like he is totally avoidant of the moment that this scene is bringing up, which is asking him to take some responsibility for the worry about this and maybe comfort or come up with a plan or solutions. And I think in some ways, it's really selfish

and ruggedly individualistic. And maybe it's, like, very, very kind of American as a trope. And I know our show is very popular kind of outside of the US too. So maybe it was like a signature kind of American, tough man thing to say. Remember, Aaron sent us that text. We talked about how he was so great as Harvey Specter

because of all the things that he brought, including this specific kind of vulnerability that he is playing this with, I think, which I think is very, very subtle. So it's not the first thing that you notice. And I think it sets us up to be not just tuning into the cool dude that Harvey Spector is but to be invested in Years following the growth of this man on television. Mm-hmm. I think it's Amazing how he played it. I Think my issue with the scene is like a different I think I agree with everything you just said I would I think where I'm coming at this from too Is that the chief complaint when I did used to read comments online

when the show came out, was that people got very frustrated with my character when they perceived him to be whiny. Oh yeah, I understand that. Or like, blaming anyone for his situation, right? I understand Mike being freaked out by what's just happened and coming in and needing to talk about it and being like, this is messing me up.

What are we gonna do? Because I can't end up like that. But he comes in and he gets really hot and angry at Harvey. And I guess I'm just not buying it in this scene. I'm not buying like that Mike's not smart enough to realize like that he can't separate his fear and He has to make it about something Harvey's done to him That's where I'm having a hard time. He's young and and I guess obviously we do these things when we're young

But I'm almost now able to put myself in the position of the people who would comment Interesting on Mike and be like, you chose this. He says it in the scene. He's like, you can tap out anytime you want. You don't wanna be here, you don't wanna be here. And so in a way, and maybe it's just cause I'm an older person now, I'm on Harvey's side in the scene.

I'm like, we can have a conversation about what are we gonna do? And it's scary and there's room for that. We all need to have that conversation. We should have that conversation. How do we better prepare ourselves for the inevitability that this might come out, whatever. But I feel like coming at, Mike coming at Harvey and just attacking him and saying, why would you do this to me is a little-

If it came off that way, I wasn't reading that, I mean necessarily that way. I say those words, I say why did you do this? Well yeah, I wanna hear it from your side. Why did you choose to be the other half of this equation? There's two, it takes two to tango in this lie, getting hired and being the fraud. But even as you said it there, it's inquisitive.

Can you tell me why you did this so that we can get to a solution? And this, he's coming at him hot and angry. It's that. It's the anger at all. Suits asks that a lot. It's the anger at Harvey that I'm not buying. I'm buying the whole scene,

and maybe it's just sort of this my performance. I'm not buying, I'ma come in and get angry at you for this. It feels like we're trying to create conflict between the two of us, rather than let the conflict be the what the hell are we gonna do. I wish I'd come into this scene just playing I'm terrified. And that's there. You can see he's scared

and that's why he's doing what he is. But I just think it's a little juvenile to come in and start attacking Harvey for it. It would be interesting if Aaron were here because he might say, because I've had these conversations with him about some Donna choices too, when he wanted, for example, like more anger or something.

He's like, people don't come in, aren't in control of their emotions all the time. Like, you know, he comes in and he misfires with anger or whatever. I'm just playing that. Shut up and say the words. I think it's a good question. I think it's important though to, like in Mike's defense, which you don't need me to take right now, I'm not saying that you're not pushing me

into that, but in defense of like Mike struggling with it, he gets, it's pretty tough that Harvey doesn't show up. Well, maybe he does. That he doesn't show up saying, hey, I'm in it with you. He says, you can, you deal with it. And if you don't like it, you can quit. I like it. Exactly. And that is the scene. It's like, this is always going to be me. I live like it, you can quit. I like it. Exactly. And that is the scene. It's like, this is always gonna be me. I live on the edge. That's what I took that to mean.

I think I understand that you wanted the performance to be different or the scene to be different from Mike's side. And I think that's very fair. And I think, you know, Mike could have, I think Mike could have come in even more upset. I mean, like, there were so, there's so many ways. And who knows what the, you probably can't remember what the conversation with Sean Jablonski and Jennifer were in the room

that day when you guys were blocking it. And look, this is, I have to, this is like tiny little dials turning, you know, watching these things. They are what they are. I try to appreciate it for what it was. It's just, sometimes there's like a little intention shift where as the actor, I'm like,

ooh, I'd love to get back in there. Put me back in that room. I just want to do a little dial turn because I would move it two degrees in another direction. Tis what it is. Anyway, Jenny comes to Pearson Hardman to pick up Mike. She runs into Lewis who warns her about Mike and Rachel. This is a controversial question.

Yeah, get it, get it. Did he do Jenny a solid? Like, what do you think? Can you not be Mike Ross? It's a tough call. Or is that? I mean- As a viewer? In the long run, given that I think the show clearly

is putting these two people together. Yes. Right? Get her, get, make her prepared for what's about to come. But do I think his intentions are good? Oh no, his intentions are clearly bad. And the ends don't, I don't think ends justify means. Like, I don't live my life that way, but it's interesting. Right? Yeah. Oh, can we talk? I don't, maybe we cut this. I don't ever want to be rude. This outfit, that's not great, right? And this has nothing to do with our friend Vanessa Rae.

She looks amazing in anything. It's just, what is this dress, right? What is it? She's shaking her head. I can see she doesn't want to say anything. I think you need to say what you have here. I think you just need to say what you have. Okay, okay.

I'm not gonna say that's even worse. I don't have written. I think a ball has been dropped as far as this outfit goes, mostly because her outfits and Jenny's just crushing it in this episode. I don't understand where we're going in this outfit. I don't know, like, are we going, I feel like we're going to New Jersey.

I cannot take the other side of this argument. You watch me sometimes just for the sake of our podcast, take the other side of the argument. I'm not going to do that right now. Oh, I see what you're saying. You're not going, you're just going to agree with me on this, yes. Just not taking the other side.

Look, we can't win them all. It's a very weird dress, but it's also the pairing with this purse. This is the world's largest purse I've ever seen. I actually think the purse helped the dress. Because it hit it. Yeah. Do you think there's any chance that

because this is a scene where we're supposed to make Jenny be not cool and a little like, what, what's going on? And feel a little bit like, I don't, maybe don't fit in here. Do you think there's any intentional, like not, you would never want anyone to be put in something that's just so wrong, but is there something about its wrongness

that could be intentional to tell the story? I thought the dress was chosen to make sure that the girl in Pearson Hardman walking into the library, looking for you, looked like she was a fish out of water. Yeah. And that I think was accomplished. chosen to make sure that the girl in Pearson Hardman walking into the library looking for you looked like she was a fish out of water. Yeah. And that I think was accomplished. But I think what you're saying is we could have done that even

with a different dress. I think we could have done it. Yeah. But maybe there just wasn't one available. Or just something more casual. I would have gone a casual route. She doesn't need to be walking around with a fancy dress on and that purse. What do they call it in succession when he's talking about the bag? A ludic, ludicrously capacious bag. Oh yeah, that was so good.

Anyway, no need to dwell. No need to dwell. Well, it's not a criticism. And I just think it's an interesting moment in time and it highlights some of the challenges that we're up against. I cannot service your request at this time is the note you put in the notes. Because you said, tell me I'm wrong.

I cannot service your request at this time. Okay, that is the end of our episode. Honorable mentions. I don't say this often, but I will say it again. It was an episode that I liked watching myself in. I was proud of myself in this episode. Yes. Which is even hard to say right now.

I'm so glad you're saying that. But I'm saying, I'm trying more of this. Good for you. Yeah, great episode. No notes, no notes. Any objections? I know that absence makes the heart grow fonder, but I miss Donna. I want more Donna.

I don't like it when she's not there. I'm happy that maybe you got a bit of a break and that you're with your family and I imagine you're doing something nice. But the show, we are now at a point where when you're not around the show doesn't feel 100% the show. Oh, that's nice.

I didn't notice Donna was missing and I had to go back and rewind through the thing, like speed through it to be like, am I in this? I noticed it. I feel it. Thank you. Can't wait to watch next week's episode. What do, wait, before we get there, god damn, how many do you think there were?

My god, it's like I don't even know this is gonna happen every week. It happened and that's why it's so good.'s like I don't even know this is going to happen every week. It happened and that's why it's so good. Two? I didn't hear any. I'm going to go with one. Sarah, you didn't hear any? It's zero.

We've had this conversation. I need to listen to my gut. Listen to that gut. All right, that's case closed on Shelf Life. Thank you so much for listening. We're gonna see you guys next week. Love you, honey. Bye.

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