Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast - Tricks of the Trade

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

Welcome to our newest podcast - The Hobbyist Arborist! Just kidding... this week Patrick and Sarah talk about Suits S1 Episode 6, titled Tricks of the Trade. They create a "nest of trust" to discuss how they feel about this week's fashion, we hear from Max Toplin on how he got cast as the beloved Harold, we learn which moment from "Old School" Patrick was inspired by in his performance, we rename #sexybits to The Gina Tor-RIZ award, and get a play-by-play of watching Suits with Sarah and Patrick while they are on a plane together.   Email us a voice memo of your questions about Suits at [e-mail]. We may use it on the show!Follow us on Instagram & TikTok - @suitssidebarGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using this show link: https://siriusxm.com/sidebar

Rolling, rolling, rolling. Keep that podcast rolling. Hi, I'm Patrick Adams. You may know me as Mike Ross on the show Suits. And I'm Sarah Rafferty and you may know me as Donna Paulson on Suits. And this is Sidebar, a Suits rewatch podcast or actually a a Suits watch podcast, because Sarah and I have never actually watched the show. Hi, Patrick. Hi. Hi. Hi.

Hi. It's been one whole day since I've seen you, and it just feels wrong. Yesterday was hard for me. Yeah. Listener, we just got back from New York City, the Big Apple, where we had a really good day. We got to promote this adventure of a podcast.

What did we do? Do you wanna tell everybody what we did? I don't even remember anymore. Well, let's talk about, we went to a play. We saw a play together. I saw two plays. We saw one together called Stereophonic, which was incredible, it was great.

And then we did the Today Show. We did some New York Live. We talked to Dallas. We talked to Boston. We did a whole Show. We did some New York Live. We talked to Dallas. We talked to Boston. We did a whole bunch of press and it was terrific. We were, I think we make a great team. I think we make a good team the other night. We should start a podcast.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was a great trip. We had a lot of fun. So great to be in New York on the East Coast in autumn. I went to visit my parents on the Metro North train and the trees going by were glorious. I picked up a bunch of leaves to share with my dad when I got there. And I had decided a couple of weeks ago, I was up in the Santa Barbara area with my kids. And I was like, girls, you know what I want to become?

I want to become that person who can name trees. I want to become like a hobbyist, arborist. Yep. And, um, and then I get there and I'm visiting with my mom and she's like, let me take you out on the deck and I'll tell, I'll show you that's a sycamore. That's a maple. That's a beach. That's it.

She did it. And I was like, mom, I want to be, you have to teach me all these cool things. I could not pick any of those trees out of a lineup. I'm the same. I can't. If you put a picture of a sycamore and a beach in front of me, I'd be useless. They're majestic. They are majestic creatures. So what if you and I get a book

and then we just have some flashcards and every now and again, learn a tree? Join us next week on our new podcast, Hobbyist Arborist. hobbyist arborist. Hobbyist arborist. Or to culture. Or to cultureist. Who's the consummationist?

All right, do you wanna get into the brief here? Let's go in, should we get into the brief, Patrick? Let's do it. All right, today we're breaking down season one, episode six, Tricks of the Trade. This episode was written by Rick Meragi, who was a very important member of our writing staff for the entire show and directed by Terry McDonough.

It originally aired on Thursday, July 21st, 2011. And in this episode, Harvey and Mike represent a hedge fund, Morello Asset Management, with an employee accused of insider trading. Quickly, they find that there's more to the story than meets the eye. And we also learn more about Rachel as Mike helps her study for the LSAT. In this process, Rachel gets closer to Mike's secret.

Let's get some facts from our firm's best researcher, Kristin. Shoot dates, May 26 to June 2, 2011. This actually wasn't the original title of the episode. The original title was Trade Secrets. Oh, I like Tricks of the Trade. I think it's better. It's got like more action. Alliterative.

Yes, there you go with your fancy words. And then most importantly, cause you heard me clapping when you were reading. Let's talk Rick Meragi for a second. Yes, yes, please. He worked on Suits from seasons one to seven. He wrote 14 episodes of the show. He started as an executive story editor in season one.

He worked his way up to executive producer in seasons six and seven. I don't like to pick favorites. I don't, but you know. Well, he was just there the whole time. I'm gonna have to. And you know, Rick. Pick a favorite.

Maybe we'll talk about this a bit later, but Rick is also, you know, Rick and Erin have written a lot together now. They've developed a couple of shows. Aaron's helping him develop another show, I think, at the moment, and Rick is now working on Suits LA. So, you know, I think we'll get into this as we get into the episode.

It's a lot of what I wanna talk about, but I think he was clearly a very important piece of the tapestry that was Suits. And I will say that as we move through the seasons, Rick was responsible for some of my favorite Donna lines, some of the ones that I think became memes. I think he's responsible for, you know, we talk a lot about things that slot in

and become a part of the show and start things that continue on. I think there's a reason he was on the show for seven seasons, because he did so much, not just for Donna. I think every character benefited, the whole show benefited from his insight. Also, I will say this about all the writers. We were still in the days where the writers came to set,

when it was their episode. They flew up to Toronto and they were there with us for the entire time. Did that stop? It's stopped in the business. That was one of the things about the writer's strike. But having them there and getting that time together is just so great. All right. That's it.

That's it. Do you have any opening statements? I mean, I'm going to start right where I started yesterday. So we were flying back on the plane from New York watching this episode at the same time on our iPads. I had to help you figure out how to use your iPad, of course. And so we were like watching it real time together. I think I turned to help you figure out how to use your iPad, of course. Uh, and so we were like watching it real time together. I think I turned to you, I slammed my laptop shut.

Maybe I'd had too much coffee, but I turned and I said, best episode of the season. And I say that knowing that I think the pilot is always, you know, forever the best and in some ways the most special, but so far, you know, all in all the pieces of the puzzle, I think this is one of our strongest. I think this is our strongest episode so far of the season. How did I look at you when you did that? You went, huh? Did I really? Well, you were only we weren't watching the exact same time.

No, it's only like three. You were only like one act in by the time I was done. So you had just sort of started. And I said, I think I understand why, because it started a little slow for me too. But by the end, and as we go through, I think I'll try and justify this or explain my position on it. But I definitely felt like this was a big moment for the show.

It took a huge step forward visually. It took a huge step forward writing- It took a huge step forward writing wise. I think all the character, all of us were sort of finding our gears. And I think it was the perfect balance of funny and dramatic tension and we'll get into all of it. But anyway, big, big fan of this episode. And I think something sort of special

happened here for the show. Okay, so you said that to me and I was like, can you give it to me again? What did I do? Huh? Yeah. What? And then I took a nap.

You said, I don't wanna fall asleep. Well, so then I realized, because you said that, I realized I need a nap, I need a snack, I needed to watch one episode of Otto Lengi making a shakshuka. And then I started over. What shukha, you just made up all those words. No, I did not. I know, I'm joking.

What is it, what was it? Yotam adalenge. Yotam, okay. Yeah, he's a chef. Yeah, you're gonna. He made a shakshuka for me on the plane. I know what that is, I love that. And then I went back in,

and I did something differently, which is I just watched it. I wasn't taking notes, I wasn't stopping it. I just enjoyed it while we were on the plane. Anytime anybody walked by to go to the bathroom or the flight attendants came by, I did stop it and hide it. Oh, because you were embarrassed to be watching your own show.

But with the exception of those breaks, I watched it and I heartily agree with you. And that just goes to show that you're a genius or that I am so suggestible that you should never introduce me to a cult leader. But I'm very excited to get to the first act. We're going to work our way through, but I really want to talk to you about the visual language

that you've been talking about in the previous episodes. I want to talk about it because I really noticed it now and either I'm primed to see it because I've been watching it, or there's something special about this episode. And I think it's the latter. I also was thrilled, thrilled to finally have these deep dives into Rachel's character. I am loving where we are going with her. And I'm really loving where this particular episode is taking Mike's character and I'm on the journey with Mike through Mike's eyes and I'm loving that.

I agree with all of this. We should get into it should we? All right let's dive in. Well obviously we start with the teaser and the episode opens at the Department of Justice where Harvey is meeting with AUSA Becky played by by the incredible Tracy Toms. Okay, stop. No, I cannot. You can't go further. We have to stop here. One second into the episode we need to stop, because Tracy Toms is on our screen.

Is this, are you going rent right now? I'm going fangirl rent. I can't. So listener, Tracy Toms starred in the movie Rent, and she is just an unbelievable talent, and you know, I have a talent crush on her, of course, who doesn't. And it just was very exciting to see her pop up

in an episode of Suits. I saw Rent on Broadway with my entire family. So we had, my mom had this family tradition since we were little, where we would go into New York to see a big show once a year. And I actually think that was really defining for me and who I became. And I'm so incredibly grateful to her for that

because that is a stretch. That's a hard thing to provide for your family. And it was the first time, this particular play, it was the first time that I really felt the generational divide between myself and my parents. I had the same thing when I went to her. I took my mom to rent. I was, I'm sorry to interrupt,

but I was sleeping on the, in Toronto, you could sleep on the street to get tickets. Oh, and you did that? Like five times, embarrassingly, I'll admit. I was like sleeping on the street. It was like a whole thing that all of the theater kids at my high school were doing. We'd like go sleep and we knew the cast and stuff.

But anyway, I took, I did that a bunch and fell in love with it. And then I was like, mom, you gotta come see this. You're not gonna believe it. And I sat there with my mom and my sister just being like, here you go. I'm about to blow your mind. And my mom was like, what on earth is this? Just did not translate. I have to ask you this.

This is hard. No, go. It's a safe space. We're in the nest of trust. Okay, here's my super top secret, not so secret nerd thing. What? And maybe this is a guilty pleasure.

Do we talk about guilty pleasures? I listen sometimes to Broadway music when I'm working out. When you're working out, like to get pumped up. Yup. Like what's your go-to? Like something from Rent, like anything from Hamilton. Like are you gonna ask me which song? Sometimes if I have to sprint, I don't know.

It doesn't even matter the pace of the song. Like I'll cover you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. It's been a long time. Seasons of love? I feel like I put it all in the past and I got it.

Do you ever listen to Broadway music? Never. This is my question. Zero. Would you admit it if you did? No judgment. Would you admit it? I have no judgment. Here's the deal.

If you put on the Rent soundtrack now, I would know every word of it. Okay. It would still be there. So it's logged. If we could go to Hollywood Bowl and there was a live rent thing, would you take me? I would dress up as Roger. Okay. Thank you. And we would do it.

Thank you. We would go. Thank you. Just for you. I mean, yeah, it's great. Just the two of us in the Hollywood Bowl with the original cast. So good. Sarah, I need you to know that there's a Peloton rent class. What? What? What? I am not alone.

You found me my people. There are all sorts, all sorts of Peloton Broadway classes. You got to get on there. What? Maybe I need a Peloton. That might be the whitest thing I've ever heard. Rent Peloton Class. Sometimes.

It's up there with the word regatta. So let's, we've gotten one step into the teaser. Let's move along. Anyway, so while talking to Harvey at Pearson Hardman, Mike sees an old client. He helped cheat the LSAT. She's walking down the hall with Rachel. Okay, I loved this walk and talk. This is a standard in some practices, right? I saw you made a note about that,

and I wanted to like almost go back and be like, where did the walk and talk really get invented in this show? Like, is there more of it happening right now, or has it been happening the whole time and I hadn't really noticed it? Either way, it is a key part of, I mean, like it's a key part of Suits, it's a key part of almost every television show,

but we had this long- We had a West Wing being a really good example of that, I think. Yeah, yeah. But this one, I was just wondering if we could play a little piece of it, because I really love how Mike is freaking out and Harvey is cool as a cucumber, obviously setting that up,

but there's this like yelp, this sound, this mic groan. I made a yelp? Yeah. Okay. Does anybody want to play that for our friend Patrick J. Adams and see if he can reproduce it? Play me my yelp. How did it go with the Department of Justice?

Follow me, you'll find out. I get to sit in? With your head down, your mouth shut, this isn't usual. Ah! Ah! I thought you were't usual. Ah! Ah! I thought you were gonna vomit. Ah! Anyway.

Yup. Okay. Add it to the list of strange Mike Ross sounds. I know, I feel like we can make an entire playlist of those. Ah! Um, anyway, Harvey and Mike are in the conference room where we're introduced to the case of the week. A young woman is accused of insider trading at a Wall Street firm that Harvey represents.

But guess what? Things are not as they seem. We've got some great actors right off the bat. Gabby Stone is played by Jenny Mullen, who I used to work out at the same gym, and she's wonderful. I just wanna say she's wonderful. This is, I think, maybe why,

I think I had gotten to this scene when you said the thing to me on the plane and I was like, hmm. Right. Okay, do over. So let me ask you, as a viewer, are you immediately like, of all the people in this room that I suspect of being the quote unquote responsible party,

it's not Gabby Stone. And I'm just wondering, am I like ahead of Harvey here? I mean, if you look at it, look, sidebar, there's a guy wearing a bow tie. Yeah, the bow tie. The bow tie. There's always a guy with a bow tie. Look, our listeners know that Donna takes issue

with bow ties and now I take issue with bow ties. Are you spoiling something for me? What? Are you spoiling something for me? Oh, in a future podcast? I need you to stay in the present with me because I don't know what happens in the future. Oh no, it's a defining principle of Donna.

But has she said it yet in the show? No, but she's going to. That's called a defining principle of Donna. Has she said it yet in the show? No, but she's going to. That's called a spoiler. Okay. You're spoiling it for me. I haven't seen this show. Okay, I gotta go, you gotta go.

Either way, we're on the same page. It's a bias. It's a bias that Donna has that I share with her. You see somebody with a bow tie, something's wrong. Yep, and that's why the first thing that I had when I saw that room set up, and I joke about the bow ties, but I was like, if anybody's guilty in that room, it's not her. Yeah, pretty obviously.

Yeah. This is not the person. Right. Right. Which, how does that make you feel about Harvey? Well, I feel like I'm ahead of Harvey. You know, something I asked Santu about, I made him watch the scene, because, as you know, Santu works in finance. And I was like, so what are you seeing set up here?

There's no way that this, we don't know yet that she's a traitor. I was like, so what are you seeing set up here? There's no way that this, we don't know yet that she's a trader. I was like, she looks like an analyst, right? She's not, she's very young. What does an analyst look like? An analyst is somebody who analyzes the stocks. Like it's a younger person. It's not a portfolio manager, right?

Like you kind of go up, you know, it's like the, it's not an intern, but it's like the newer person at the firm. Then you work your way up to be a portfolio manager. Then you run the whole playlist kind of thing. You know the way that you feel when I talk about like iPhones? Did you just die?

Yeah, I just, my brain goes, what? Okay, but when Santu talks about it, I gotta say I kinda like it. My brain kinda goes like, ooh. I'm into it when someone's excited about things, but like I just don't understand. It's like someone's trying to explain to me

how to build a refrigerator. I'm just like, okay. Okay, but you come over, you talk to Santu about it. And he's so, so lovely. It's like someone's trying to explain to me how to build a refrigerator. I'm just like, okay. Okay, but you come over, you talk to Sancho about it. He's so, so lovely. He's the best. He's not a better person. Charming and compelling. But your point being is you can tell

this is not the droid you're looking for. This person is not. We know that Mike is onto something right off the bat. Onto something because he has a spidey sense. So I'm excited to go with Mike on this journey. I think it's interesting that I don't agree with Harvey's point of view right out of the gate and that the show is willing to have our hero

be that guy for us. Sorry, let's go back. You just said, say that again, about it's happy to make our hero. What did you say about Gabriel? Are you the hero? Well, I'm just saying. Mike's the hero.

You know what I mean? Like there's only one hero of the show? That's interesting, I'm just gonna write that down. So Sarah only thinks there's one hero to the show. Okay. So after the meeting. After the meeting, Mike's supposed to be watching Gabby, a flight risk, but then he gets distracted

chatting with Rachel, and I'm really happy to see Rachel back. Yes. You know, and I think we're gonna get into it, but it's right off the bat, it's like Rachel has been sort of, not condemned is the wrong word, but she's been the beautiful, really smart person that Mike's sort of scared of

and just always sort of walking on glass around. And right off the bat, we're into like, something that makes her very vulnerable and something she's not confident about. And I think it kind of, again, unlocked something in this character and between these two people, and right off the bat with the scene, we're like,

oh, okay, she's not invincible. I think she stepped away from being a functional character, a character that's supposed to illuminate something in Mike, and she is her own. And now we're excited, and it's in the hands of Rick Moragi, so it's gonna be very exciting. So I'm in. 100%. And then while Mike is outside the room with Rachel, Gappy disappears.

Oh, oh. Oh, my goodness. So, like I said, this is the end of the teaser, and I just think masterful work, the table set, we're ready to get into the rest of the episode. Okay and we're back. We're talking about Act One. Sarah, you had a lot of notes here. What's going on for you in Act One? I have a lot that I need to talk to you about.

So this whole act, I really started to notice that the camera is rarely still, like at any time. And like you asked before, like, have we been doing that all along? Am I just primed to start seeing that in the show because we've been watching it for five episodes or is there something being done differently here? So I want to ask you, since you've been both in front of and behind the camera, can you explain some of this technically to me? Because I am seeing not just the steady cam, I'm seeing a lot more of the camera being on a track. I'm seeing all of more of the camera being on a track.

I'm seeing all of that. Can you talk to me with the director hat on? Hold on, let me get my director hat. Where is it? Oh, God. I lost it. Oh, God. I'm just gonna have to pretend. I think it is 100% the director. And I've tried to, as what I'm watching this episode,

go back, Terry McDonough, who directed this episode, is a very, very, very good director. And what I was experiencing, and I think he likes to move the camera a lot. Now, that being said, he's not the DP of the show, but because you're right, you've totally picked up on the same thing, the camera's moving so much,

even in scenes where we're just on a phone call between two people, and in between, you're like dollying and coming across the desk. Sometimes I've talked to directors before where they don't like doing that because they think you're just manufacturing tension in a show. Like if a scene's not that exciting you just move a camera and it makes it feel more exciting rather than doing it in performance. I think it's a balance right? You can totally use cameras to make something interesting without doing the work of making the performance

interesting, but you can also make a performance interesting and then highlight it with a moving camera, which is what I think Terry McDonough did in this whole episode. He loves to move the camera. The episode feels kinetic. It has momentum. It has energy. One scene flies into the next and then when this when the episode needs to be still to like ground something, he does that too. And that's when you know you're working with somebody who's sort of orchestrating a symphony in a way.

And I was so curious watching it because I was so struck by the direction, but I was like, why, Terry only directed two episodes, why, I texted Aaron and I said, sometimes directors don't get along with showrunners. I was like, what happened to Terry? Did you and Terry not like each other? Why did Terry only?

Because I'm watching this episode and it's so well directed. And Aaron just said he was too busy. We couldn't get him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was that was it. And then you look at Terry's IMDB and it's just an endless, endless. He never stops working. Would you shadow him if you could?

Yeah, 100 percent. And he was such a he's just such a fun energy, a couple of stories later when we get to the moments, but he was just so funny, he was so wry, he's British, you know, Brits can have the best sense of humors in the world. He didn't take it too seriously, he had a really clear idea, he was playful,

it was just a really, really good energy. And I think he had just come off Breaking Bad before he came onto our show, so we were all like, oh, my God, a director from Breaking Bad's here. He just was super confident, and he kind of knew exactly what the story needed. So that's been my experience of watching it. And I think right from the beginning, you can feel

that we are in a very confident hand. And it's funny you say that thing, because right away, we have, Harvey finds out that Gabby is missing and he has to tell Becky from the DOJ. And even that scene, like Gabriel's throwing a ball up and down, then he's like throwing it, you know, movement under the table

and they move the camera so you can see that he's playing with it. You know, it's really great. Yeah. Then Gabby leaves her phone behind. We find out that Gabby's left her phone behind. Mike is able to find her friend Bradley at a sports club based on a text, and talks him into revealing her location.

So this is a great, this is probably my award for best needle drop holding onto black metal by My Morning Jacket, one of my favorite bands. And I love this sequence just from a character point of view. And I think this is why I remember this episode so fondly is just Mike is on like a journey that we're starting right here, where it's almost like he's as much of an investigator as a lawyer in this. And he's also like, he's figuring out what to do.

It's not like Harvey's like, why don't you do this? And then fill out this form and why don't you know anything? Mike's like, I'm gonna go handle it. And when he walks into this space, he's still a bit out of his element and he doesn't quite know how to handle it. And do I pretend to be from the deal? Like that great moment where he gets called out or you from the department. You know, he doesn't quite know how to be, but he's also just owning it. He's like, he's leaning into it.

So there's like a more confident version of Mike in this episode that I'm experiencing watching it. And it takes me back to shooting it. And remember remember like, I remember like, I love doing this. Like this is what I want for this guy. Well, Mike had an opportunity here to start to try on being a chameleon. And then we get into it more later and that must've been so fulfilling to play that piece. Because his superpower before is this thing

where he has a photographic memory and he's seeing things and he remembers things, but that's not particularly interesting to watch or play. You know, like I can remember things. It doesn't get much more fun to play than that scene from the pilot where I can regurgitate and make an impression. After that, you can't, it's hard to find new ways to play that. And I think the show is struggling to write new ways to keep that interesting. You know, like it wasn't, there's only so many montages of fading to black and white to show you

what Mike remembers from three scenes ago. That's like not that great, but Mike getting to like be spontaneous and creative in the moment and utilize the things he remembers in order to do something now was way more playable and way more fun. So anyway, we open up in the bullpen where a group of associates are giving Mike a hard time

about losing Gabby and Lewis intervenes. Major scene. Who do we meet for the first time? We get to meet Harold! Oh boy. Finally. This might be a good place. Harold's played by the one and only Max Topland, of course, a spoiler alert. He remains an important part of the show in the years to come and this is the first moment we are meeting him.

I got to reach out to Max yesterday and asked him to send a short message about how it is he ended up standing out in this episode. And he gets a couple of lines here in a second. So let's hear from Max. Hey, Sarah. Hey, Patrick. Congrats on sidebar. This is friggin cool.

You too. Hey, it's Max Hoplin, Harold Gunderson. I am here to tell ya how it all came about. 2011, I'm a struggling actor in LA, I'm hungry, I am poor, it's not going great. My manager calls me in and says that I'm actually not a very good actor and my weight fluctuations are not working with his roster so he drops me I am morbidly depressed I call my Canadian

agent and say listen I need to pay rent I am like screwed I have no money get me a job and my agent said fly home so I did I flew back to Toronto so I get home my agent calls me says hey there's this great audition for an American series called The Legal Mind. And I say, wait, that's great. An American series called The Legal Mind, I love it. Let's do it, what's the role? It's Sweaty Guy.

Sweaty Guy? Okay, I've been doing this my entire life, but I'll try to do Sweaty Guy. So I go in for Sweaty Guy and I do not get it. So I'm pissed. I'm frustrated My agent calls me and says you didn't get that but you did get something else and I say what is it? I'm like, well, it's a silent on camera roll. No lines I show up and I meet Rick Hoffman who is a lovely lovely guy and very intense and a wonderful actor

and you know, we start rehearsing the scene, we go over to our blocking and we start shooting. And Rick is berating me in this scene so incredibly hard. The director calls cut comes over says, you know, Max, great goes over and gives Rick notes. Rick turns to me and says, Why aren't you saying anything? And like, what are you talking about? Why am I saying I'm hired as a silent on camera? I'm not an actor here. I'm an extra. And he says, no, that's not why you're here. You better fn respond to me.

And I was nervous. I look over, you know, I'm 18. I think I'm 18. No, I look over at video village and I see the producers and the director and everyone's looking at me and you know, happy but do not speak. You are not paid to speak. So then we started improving on the next take and something magic happened there.

And I got a call from my agent. My agent says, they want to write for you. They loved what you and Rick created yesterday and they want to write for you. So, I mean, it was a shocking experience, you know, and I think it really taught me. Maybe there was a reason I didn't get sweaty guy and I got a it was a shocking experience, you know, and I think it really taught me, maybe there was a reason I didn't get Sweaty Guy, and I got, you know, Non-Speaking Harold instead, that turned into Harold Gunderson in, I think, 17, 18 episodes in the end?

So, it was an amazing experience that all just came from Rick, truthfully, pushing me when I was down. And thank you so much forever for that, Rick. I will never, I will never not be grateful to Rick Hoffman for that. So anyway, I hope you guys are well and congrats on the show. So excited. Yeah.

Wow, that's unbelievable. So good, right? Max is truly one of the best and we will for sure have him on the show more full time. But I wanted to make sure he got his story in there when, you know, now that we've met him, Rick Hoffman, a saint. And I could totally imagine that too,

him just pushing through any, you know, rules and regulations and just being like, no, no, no, he speaks. And it's great because you can change a person's life. Doing that. And because Rick knows what works, like we're finding that out when we see him. I mean, even the moment when he comes over to you

and he simply says the word shenanigans with a little bit of special sauce. Yeah, perfect. What's going on? Some sort of shenanigans? And he's like, again, he's opened his channel to be, you know, Alan Rickman, I think. It's just a brilliant moment.

So then that takes us into the scene where Lewis scolds Harold for not being available on the phone and looks down to find King Lear tickets from Jessica on his desk. Yeah this is the Rick Hoffman should have won an Emmy Award moment of the week. It's a simple straight beautiful line. Okay thanks you can leave my office please. Can we make that a thing? The Rick Hoffman should have won an Emmy Award. There'll be multiple ones of those a week, but it's so good. Just listen to the Switch. You will pick up your phone.

Absolutely. Okay, thanks. Can you leave my office, please? Like, that's masterwork. My God. Just Switches instantly. He becomes a child. He becomes a small baby with a new toy.

I love it. But even having the chance to see Max's body language in that scene where he basically has no lines, like that really is proof positive that there are no small parts. He makes it great. And it's obvious why they wanted to write for him. So then we're in Jessica's office. Louis thanks Jessica for the tickets and makes plans for the two of them to attend together. Okay, let's talk about this exchange. Yeah, go for it. I really want to hear from you about this because this, not only did this make me laugh out loud,

but again, visually lining them up so that you can see Harvey's point of view when he's the kid in the middle between Jessica and Louis. Right. And that Harvey sets up a Jessica Lewis date so brilliantly and that is the date that I didn't know I needed. So tell me about- The King Lear date? Yes, that we see at the end of the date that I didn't know I needed. So tell me about... The kinglier date?

Yes, that we see at the end of the episode and I'm just gonna spend the whole time like waiting hoping I'm gonna see that. But the way that this is lined up with the cameras, it's brilliant. Tell me more. Do you know what frustrates me? What? You think it's you. I know as soon as I said that, I was like she's gonna think it's her.

We had a joke earlier in the order of the earliest pods. What is it? A lotsa? Lotsy. A lotsy. What is the definition of a lotsy? Oh, come on. You look like you disgusted with me.

It's important to the conversation. A lotsy is like a comedic bit. It's from comedia. What frustrates me so much is because I made so much fun of you for using that word and knowing it. And what the point I'm about to make and what I think you're saying is that's actually what is making this show brilliant,

is like this scene is one of those. And it's like last week, in the middle of a dramatic tension, we had that great scene with you, where all of a sudden the plot didn't matter and we just had a comedic moment, a lot to say maybe. That's the same thing here and it's what I think I'm learning is makes and it's not the first show to do it but we do it really well. This show is brilliant. It's suddenly going like hey

don't worry about the plot for a second. Don't worry about the story. Don't worry about the case. Don't worry about any of it. We're just gonna put these people into a funny situation and it's gonna be silly for a second and we're gonna do it really really well because Aaron of course cut his teeth as a sitcom writer as he told us so like that's how he came up and that's probably you know clearly one of his strong suits and I think sometimes if you're creating an hour-long show maybe comedy is like you're not supposed to stop the show for a funny bit. Maybe a joke or a punchline but not a whole scene. And yet our show is finding that

you can and should. And now all of a sudden we're in this silly exchange about King Lear tickets and Yankee, you know. Nachos. Yeah, nachos and Yankee, you know what I mean? Yeah. There's nothing to do with anything. Suddenly the show is owning that part of it and getting better at it.

And I think this is the episode where it happens. That's it, this has been my TED Talk. Well, thank you for being so gracious with me about my nerd-tasticness. Yeah. It's frustrating to me to no end. Because all I want to do is make fun of you for lotsies. And now it turns out to be a pivotal part of this show. Um, anyway, okay, so then we're in Rachel's office. Mike's trying to convince her to try the LSAT again.

Okay, so, Patrick, I love this scene. This is just like, boom, we have Rachel. This is the scene where we absolutely see Rachel's character take flight, and you and Megan are great in this. And I feel like Rick's, Rick Meragi's writing really teed up Megan in this episode in such a beautiful way.

You guys are very, very, very charming. And I know I've said that I don't do teams, but I am really just, you know, I'm human. And I am fickle. Yeah, I'm rooting for these two crazy kids. And I can only focus said that I don't do teams, but I am really just, you know, I'm human. Yeah, I'm rooting for these two crazy kids. And I can only focus on the most recent thing in front of me. So, you know, Jenny Hu. Yeah. Yeah.

That's what happened to me. I'm sure she's going to come back. I know. And she's fantastic. But I'm just, I'm in. I'm on board. You guys are so great together. You're an amazing team. Well, and again, it's watching, like, Mike look after Rachel. Like, how can I help you? He wants to help her. And he doesn't want to help her by cheating. Like,

that's about to come up that that's a part of his life. And, you know, obviously, we know it's part of his life. But it's not what he's trying to do. He's trying to like get her there and help her to figure out that like she doesn't need to be so hard on herself. And she's totally capable of doing this. And she's everything in this scene. She's vulnerable, she needs something, she's hilarious. She says, I can do math, good will hunting. Yeah. You know, she's all the things. She's not just a pretty face.

Yeah, yeah. I think it's a huge step forward for the character and she's so good in it. OK, Mike and Harvey are going back to Morello Acid Management. Harvey clashes with Sam, played by JR Bourne, Grey Tuffy. He's so good. When he is less than forthcoming in their investigation.

Okay. Quick fact, JR Bourne's gonna be coming back a little later, but maybe that's a spoiler alert. Oh, that's great, because I do want more of him and more of his character. And I just wanna say that he also says the word pussy. And I think we can line up a bit of a pussy counter. What word?

Pussy. Sorry, I didn't hear you, what was it? He calls Harvey a pussy. Can you guys turn me up so I didn't hear you. What was it? He? You guys turn me up that didn't hear it But I do when we get to the end I do want to talk about that word because I think it's a really interesting usage of that word and I'm just gonna mark it and move on The pause there was my favorite. We're both like, yeah Oh, I'm I can't wait to hear where we're going with this Harvey and Mike have a hot dog stand combo impression off

Listen friends. Can we just listen to this just for my pleasure? That was amazing. He was like he was Mr. T and you were Rocky, but like not Rocky at the beginning when he's all scared of Mr. T, but at the end, he's all like, give it your best shot, you know? Adrian! You gotta work on your Stallone. You need a lower register.

Ooh. That was an incredible Stallone. I've been doing that since I was a kid. You can't touch it. Ooh. You got the food in your mouth. No, I swallowed it. Ooh.

There's food in your mouth. Adrian. Love it. Love it. Gabriel was really good at that. He was so good. You get a lower register. That is, if you look at the script, all added. That was not in the script and not added by us. I think I remember Aaron being on set

and we were like figuring it out together. It wasn't us. It wasn't, we can't take credit for it. It was us all sort of trying to find that thing. It was like, this is a good scene. It's funny. What's the thing at the end? We could have more fun.

We can like, this is like, again, us finding this is an opportunity for us to be silly. How can we be maximum silly with still in the world of the show? Yeah, so I remember that. I remember Aaron being there for that. Anyway, I think it's time for us to take a bit of a break. Why don't you stay tuned for some more fun with Mike and Rachel? And also that Jessica Lewis date we were talking about. -♪ MUSIC PLAYING Alright, you ready to continue? Yeah, let's do it. Just look me in the eye. Are we good? I'm super mad at you. I'm so mad at you.

Can I talk to you for a second? Outside the pub? In the corner. In the corner right there. I want to talk to you right now. Yeah. Harvey visits Jessica's office to give her a hard time about King Lear with Louis. She gives it right back to him.

There's a scene where Gina's wearing a white dress that made me feel... Feel a sexy bit? Feel... she's a dear friend, but that dress... Was everything. I don't know that I could forget it. It's like the hottest dress in the world. All I have to say about this moment is that Gina is my sexy bit.

She's all the things in this scene. She is smart, she is funny, she is gorgeous. That just comes along with it. But she's one step ahead of Harvey. Can we talk about one thing to do with Sexy Bits and Gina too? We can talk about all the things. Remember when we were just in New York

seeing our billboard for Sidebar Podcasts and we were like, look at us, look how we're on the big, we're big guys now, look at us. And then all of a sudden, Gina was right there, I think bigger than our billboard. It was right before, she was there first. For 911, Lone Star, looking incredible, and she's such a badass and we love her.

I sent that picture to her. Oh, good. Anyway, Gina's our sexy bit. I don't know what that means, I'm sure I'm gonna get canceled for having repeated it. Look, okay, let's define it for a second, because in the spirit that it is meant as we are all happily married and respect everybody's

marriages, we're just talking about like somebody having that energy that draws you in and makes you feel something. And I'm kind of kidding when I call it a sexy bit, but it does, it sort of, look, I'm gonna regret saying this. It's like a turn on. You're just like, oh, hi, hi, hi, Jessica, being all the glorious Jessicaness. And that's what I experienced.

It's a blip on the screen. But Gina Torres is magical. And you get a second to bask in it. But it's more about just an essence. It's more about an energy and a magic that you bring. It's charisma. I think it's great. I think you bring up a good point.

I think maybe I want to find a different term. Yes, we must. No, no, no, not because there's anything wrong with sexy bit, but now I'm trying to think in legal puns because everything we're doing on this show is legal puns. So I'm trying to figure out what like. Can we offer it to our listener? Yeah, we need to name the like when somebody's got,

I think what the kids call it is Riz. It's Riz. Is this what the kids call it is Riz. It's Riz. Is this what the kids call the Riz? Your kids will kill you though for using it. It's just for them to use. I'm sure by the time my kids use words like that, it'll be a new word. My daughter, I tried it and she was just like,

mom, no. Right, so we need the Riz term for our podcast when someone's just in the element, when they're in their pocket. Maybe it's a Gina Torres award. Gina Torres. Maybe it's Toriz. The Gina Torres Riz Award.

Good. We'll work on it. Coming up here too is maybe a statue of limitations for me in the episode. Again, I want to be careful with these because it's funny and it is what it is, but there's a moment where we have a little talking about Mike and drag and I've got soft features moment. What do we think? Is that a statute of limitations?

Are we having fun? I loved it. I loved it. I think, and I hope that it's more of a tribute than a statute. I love it. Yeah, there's nothing offensive. I'm not offended by this at all,

but we live in a different time. And I'm like, is this happening in 2024? Are we making this joke? I don't know. That's always a good question, but that has to do with the time and- I'm not saying it's right or wrong. Yeah.

Kristen has something to say. Could it be that Patrick maybe just doesn't want to have soft features? I love having soft features. I've been working my whole life on these soft features. Yeah. Which features are soft? All of them.

I mean the eyes. And the sort of puffy. I mean the eyes. And the sort of puffy skin and the bags. No, no, no. We're not going there. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. There was a, you won an award.

You got, you were an, around this time you were an MTV hottie. So shut, I'm going to shut this down. The Hump Day hottie. Oh my. Yeah, I have it tattooed somewhere. Anyways, to get to the bottom of things in the case, Mike heads to a bar where the Morello traders hang out after work and he convinces them all to boast

about their most profitable trades. This for me wins, it's not the scene, I guess it's the scene, it's the sequence of the episode for me because personally, I don't know of the episode for me, because personally, I don't know, something happened for me again, talked a bit about that scene for you last week where you felt like you found a gear that you were like, oh, okay, this is Donna, this is where I want Donna to live.

I'm watching this sequence and I'm like, this is, I remember shooting this. Again, it's always a scene I remember, so that's how I know something special happened in it. I think I'm shooting without Gabriel, I love shooting with Gabriel but it was like Mike is kind of on his own. He's getting to figure out a problem. He's getting to play a role. He's a confident version of himself. He's out there. I just I really loved this whole sequence not I'm not saying like just performance wise I love it for the character.

I love the way it was directed. I like the needle drops. And I like that it gives Mike this like new superpower. And then really the more fun part of the scene is seeing what Mike does with it and the person he becomes and how he gets all this information out of these guys. I like that he gets drunk and it's not the end of the world.

We had talked about this last week that every time he seems to have fun or drink too much, he gets drunk and it's not the end of the world. We had talked about this last week, that every time he seems to have fun or drink too much, he gets in trouble. That's not happening here. It's sort of fun. It allows it to be funny and fun and he gets the job done and it ends with him, you know, at Harvey's door with that funny scene.

So anyway, I loved this sequence and I think that it was, you know, something dropping in for me. Well, I'm glad that you brought that up because I was definitely not gonna let this piece of the episode slide by without really saying, well, first of all, how the writing was such a gift to you as an actor,

because you are getting to put on these personas and you're getting to flex in that sort of way that we crave. But also the question that I have is would the gift of the writing have been written if they didn't have the gift of the actor? And we are now on episode six and they are have a keen understanding of the gifted actor that they have. And so I believe they wrote this sequence to lean into that. And it was such, you know, it's like a chicken or egg moment. And it's definitely, I'm gonna think that the actor showed up first. And then that made this writing come along for him. And it's a good time to just acknowledge that shortly after this airing, because this

is about to, this this is about to this, this show is about to air 20 days later or something. And they're going to, people are going to see the first season. Then you got nominated for a sideboard. So you were seen, you were known. And I want you to hold on to that. Thank you. I appreciate that. I really do appreciate that. And this is one of the few times where I'm like watching it and I feel good about it. You know, I mean, I can't watch this stuff and I'm always like, oh God, it could have been better.

This is one moment where I was like, no, this works. This was really fun. This is work. I like the work. I can watch this and be proud of it. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Was it hard to be drunk?

I don't remember that part. I mean, it's always a little weird being drunk but I think he's more aggressive. Like I just got to lean into aggressive which is not my default, you know, I wanna be friendly, soft features. And you know, this is like this version of, I don't know, it's like Bradley Cooper from Wedding Crashers or something.

You know, like just this like bro that I don't get to be very often. And it was fun to put that on for a second. I will say also, you know, my first job was old school. We talked about this. And there's a moment in here where I realized I'm sort of stealing Vince Vaughn energy because I say there was a, I think it made it into the film.

There's a moment in the film where in the backyard during the birthday party where Vince Vaughn tells someone to put their like costume back on and says, you're better than that. And we, on that set, it was so funny. Just the idea that you turn to someone and and says, you're better than that. And we all, on that set, it was so funny, just the idea that you turn to someone to be like, you're better than that. And I say it in this scene.

And as soon as you see my character say it, I was like, oh, okay, I'm just stealing from Fitz Fawn at this point. I will also say, in this sequence, Aaron was on set too. I remember Aaron being there. Again, freeing you up. And that freed it up.

We were all in the room and all figuring it out and all having fun together and making each other laugh. And it's just the perfect combo. That piece of dad, dad might not like it. That was so hard in the coming seasons. I've got to say that was a, that's a really interesting thing to note right now. That when you lost that.

The distant father syndrome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a difficult thing. So the pussy counter at the end of the scene is at a two. What was it? The pussy counter. Sorry, I couldn't hear. We've said it twice.

Pfft. Yep. Mike gets a call to let him know that Rachel Zane wants to meet the test genius. Oh no, he agreed to meet her, but when he gets there, he doesn't reveal that he's the test taker. I got a couple of nitpicks. We need a new name for Patrick's nitpicks,

but like, do we really think this guy's the best pretzel in New York. I mean, let's take a look at that cart. Look at that cart. I'm not, New York's a big city. There's a lot of impressive pretzels. I'm not buying that that guy's got the best of the best. And then I have a fashion police moment. Both of us are not doing great in this scene.

You guys look beautiful. She's got a weird polka dot sweater. And look at that. You know when the collar goes to there and it doesn't go all the way to the thing? I don't know what you call it. When we talk to Jolie, we can talk about it. I just, it drives me cool. You look so handsome. Look at that.

Wow. But I just, you know, like Harvey's got, you know, when you get there, it just, it makes it all a piece. And that looks like you're wearing the wrong jacket to me. Okay, this, I have a lot to say. First of all, I did talk to Sontu about this moment.

Now, I don't want you to get jealous as my work husband that I was referring to my real husband a lot. I really don't like it when you bring him in here like this. I know, I know, I know, it's a lot. But this, I was really interested in bringing moments to him since he's in finance. But he, so I showed him this. I showed him basically this still.

And I said, what do you think of this, um, what do you think of this suit? Of course, he said, how handsome you look. He said, well, it's just very clear that he's the junior guy. Yeah. Because he doesn't have the same spread on his shirt that Harvey does, because Harvey's in a more expensive shirt.

And I might be having an emotional reaction to that too, which was like, I don't mind playing the junior guy, but I don't wanna look like I'm 14 and I don't know how to dress. You know, and it's not, there's a lot of suits where they don't, this is not common. I'm not always like this.

Like in the rest of the episode, I'm not always doing that. So I think I was always just like pushing in the other directions. Like we're doing this other thing, can we just keep doing that? And then every time they put me in this, I'd be like, okay. No, I very much understand that feeling. And what I'm gonna say is I did have fashion police

on this whole scene. And because again, I've talked about accessories, Rachel has a red belt on that. She looks fantastic. She could wear a paper bag. She looks beautiful. You guys both look great, but I'm just not loving the clothes.

And I don't think polka dots work on our show for somebody in the office. But that being said, I just think this is a budgetary situation, that we're in the beginning of the show, that Harvey and Jessica need to be in these outfits that have to be very, very costly. We have to imagine, and Jolie is doing her best with what she has.

See, as we move away, we do see that red belt. And I've taken issue with a lot of accessories up to this point. And that pretzel cart. The hot dog cart looks good though. Like it's gonna go on the little migration. You think there's a story between those two? Like a little love story between the hot dog cart

and the pretzel cart? They're so close to each other. But they seem very aloof. They're looking in another direction. But anyway, I take your point. And what's exciting too, is as Rachel's character is getting developed, really in this episode, I'm ready to look at her clothes,

because her clothes just go off the chain. They get so, so good. So good. So it'll be fun to look at that. Yeah, it's nice to see us. Of humble beginnings. Look, you guys can't look bad in anything. You look gorgeous.

Appreciate that. After visiting Gabby in jail, Mike and Harvey are more convinced of her innocence and are now wondering about her lawyer's motives. So Harvey pays him a visit. Okay. I didn't see this coming. I did not see this coming. You didn't see this coming. There's a moment at the beginning of the episode where Harvey's like, so you're going to jail and you better just take it and you better thank me for it. And there's a moment where her lawyer in that scene looks at her and just goes,

like basically is like, what you gonna do? He abdicated his responsibility pretty quickly. He's clearly a very bad lawyer. So I will say, if you take that moment for what it's worth, it's not all that surprising that this guy is in the bag. I know, but Patrick, the clothes got in my way is my point. I bought the red herring of the dude in the bow tie and all my focus went to him and I wasn't noticing the lawyer. It's genius actually.

So the bow tie got me. Maybe that's why the bow tie. The bow tie's the red herring. You can't take your eyes off the bow tie. You never trust those people. It's a genius, genius choice by Jolie. And then we're into act five. Harvey visits Dean Morello, reveals that his trusted right-hand man, Burt Kimball, is behind the insider trading.

I have a nitpick. What is this office? So in our show, so many times, the offices are so beautiful and epic, and especially with the kind of big moment of the scene. And this office feels like they just had to shoot in it. This is like the head of a major hedge fund. And then look behind him.

What is this? You know what I mean? You can tell sometimes you're shooting a show and you're like, we gotta make the day and the office has to be in this building and this is the best corner and you're just gonna make it work. It's probably just a schedule thing in there.

Like we need to do this scene and this is the best need to do this scene and this is the best place to do it. But jumped out at me. Outside the courthouse, Gabby has been released and thanks Harvey and Mike for believing in her. There's funny outtake in the gag reel apparently where Jenny says, thanks for getting me off.

And I think we all just stare, we both just stare at her. There is a, what does she say in this scene? Can someone explain it to me? She says, is it something I missed? I'm your genius bar, yeah. She says, I'm about to go find some water and we all laugh at her. Because you went to get her some water

and then she escaped in the beginning of the episode. Did I just explain something to you? Did you guys all catch that watching it? I'm just a dummy. Oh, Kiki didn't get it. All right, Kristen didn't have it. Wow, I did not understand that. Let me see it again.

All right, well, I'm gonna find some water. You don't come back soon. We're sending out a search party. How could you? Like, really? Instantly you got that. Absolutely. Wow. See, we all Instantly you got that. Absolutely. Wow.

See, we all have different gifts. Wow, I mean, for me that's like... I bring something else to the party. I'm just not paying attention to life enough. Funny story in this, maybe it's funny to me. This was a perfect example of Terry McDonough. It made me laugh so much, I'll never forget it. In this scene, you see how we're very low angle,

like belly shot for both of us. I remember Terry McDonough came in after our first take. We both felt like the cool winners of the world. We'd saved the girl, we'd done the thing. He comes up to both of us, he goes, Hey chaps, how about the tummy? And he taps his belly and goes, meaning suck it in.

The both of us had our bellies hanging out a little too much for him. And I'll remember Gabriel and I, it was so funny. Gabriel and I would Gabriel held on to that for the nine seasons. It was so funny. Gabriel and I would do it to each other all the time. Anyway, probably better. And then it turned into just being able for him to just go, Gabriel would just do that and we'd all laugh.

And I wasn't even there and it was hilarious. Anyway, after King Lear, Louis and Jessica are having dinner together and another great scene between the two of these. It was, I was so excited that we got it. I was like, oh, we do get to go on the date with them. Yes. It was so great.

Theater nerd alert? Please, bring it. Jessica, is Jessica King Lear, Harvey Lewis, and Mike our sons fighting for attention and affection? And Cordelia? Are we going that deep? Oh my god. Thank you. Is the Le we going that deep? Oh my God, thank you. Is the Lear reference that deep?

Thank you for that. I thought you'd appreciate that. So satisfying. Thank you for giving me that and thank you for sharing your nerdery publicly. It's very brave. Join us on our other podcast. The Nerdery. Shakespeare Nerdery.

And you have something to say about Gina at the end of the scene. Oh, her no, her line. She's got that no again. Like so perfect. Single one-liners, the timing. You know, next week there's a revival of cats. No.

Absolutely not. No. Perfect timing. So Rachel finds Mike in the office to thank him for his help and let him know that she's going to take the LSAT in three months. in the office to thank him for his help and let him know that she's gonna take the LSAT in three months. She's suspicious of his supportive response

and figures out something. What does she figure out? That he was the cheater. What do you think of this? This really surprised me. This is an example of me not remembering at all. I was watching the scene going like, oh, are we about to kiss?

That's how I started the scene. I was like, is this our first, like, oh, it's about to happen for these two. And I don't know why scene. I was like, is this our first, like, oh, it's about to happen for these two. And I don't know why. Maybe I'm remembering, like, I'm wondering if maybe our first kiss happens in like similar spot. I don't know. It probably doesn't.

But anyway, I was like, this is a romantic moment in that it turns and she actually realizes that he's the cheater. And it made me very sad because I'd been hoping these two were figuring out this whole episode. And I loved that I didn't remember. So it was a surprise and my brain doesn't work very well. Do you think as an audience member, it's great that we're sort of extending that tension?

Are you just like, yeah. Oh yeah, no, no, no. I mean, I'm invested now, obviously. So I'm like, oh no, they were so close. Something great was happening. It's also, you know when someone'm like, oh no, they were so close. Something great was happening. It's also, you know when someone is like, she's been on the vulnerable train and you sort of like want her to feel safe

and now when someone feels like they've been lied to, they clam up and you're like, oh no, wait. I hope she doesn't lose that vulnerable thing. Not that she will, but like as a person, I'm like, oh, they were so close to sort of connecting on this deeper level and then Mike Ross's lies are gonna ruin everything. I think it also, for me, it's,

I'm realizing how similar this scene is to a scene at the end of season two, when something pretty pivotal happens. She figures some stuff out about Mike later on. So, you know, she's onto Mike, and I think that's important to remember that Mike is living a lie. It's good for us to be reminded of that

as much as possible. I have a question for you. Do you think that, what would, I just thought of this just now. Do you think that those two scenes could have been flip-flopped, which is the after-leer dinner date and then this scene so that we could have

finished the episode on Gina's no and had that scene first? What do you think? I think you could, but I think, I mean, it depends. It depends on the episode, but for me, I would probably always choose the like heavier character, not character, the other one's a character too, but heavier like, you know, something's not,

not all is right. Come back next week, see if they can figure it out. Kind of a scene rather than, I love all these funny people and they're making me laugh. But it just depends, I guess it's a taste thing. Anyway, that is the end of this episode, tricks or the tricks. I think Rick Moraghi wins the episode.

I don't even know, we've never had anybody win. But he wins it. He just wins life. Who wins life? Objections, Your Honor. No Donna. I don't like it. I don't like having no Donna. I mean, I'm okay with it.

Distance, you know, distance makes the heart grow fonder. So my heart is now fonder. That's why I'm okay with it. But I do, I do feel her missing from the episode and I wish she was there. Thank you. I'm going to add something into the... What do you object to? I'd like to add something into the minutes. I want to add that I have some inconclusive evidence

that I just wanna bring to you. And that is about the word pussy. I know I brought it up as a joke. I didn't hear it, what was it? Sorry, I didn't get it. Can you say it again? Can we just turn it up? I thought I turned my headphones up.

What was the word? The word of the day. So I just wanna talk about, I just wanna talk about loving or hating the use of the word pussy. I'm going to say here, it's really interesting. It's well used here as a representation of place and time, which is something that obviously Aaron talked about

when we interviewed him about why it's important to keep these kinds of things in. But I think it's even more interesting now to watch the show with that word in it, because I believe that in many ways, and I wanna know how you feel about this, but I think that that word was overtly reclaimed by women in 2017.

I just think it's an interesting conversation. I think the word has been reclaimed, so I don't have a knee-jerk response to it. What did you have when you... I didn't notice it. It didn't jump out at me, and then as soon as you wrote it down, I was like, I just had a moment of like,

is this in 2024, does this make the cut? Is this the word? I don't know if we do it now. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if it does. I mean, again, it's establishing that this is how these guys talk, which is helpful. Absolutely.

And it's definitely not being glorified or like being used in a way that's like, look at our heroes and how they talk and how cool they are. So, but yeah, I mean, I agree. I totally agree with your assessment that it's a different word post 2017 for sure. But I don't know if it makes the show later. I think it does, because I think Aaron doesn't really,

for Aaron it's all stories. Like, do guys like this talk like this? Yeah, they do? Nevermind, let's move on. I think that's how he thinks about things. But again, we can ask him. No, and I just appreciate looking at it with a lens that's fairly recent,

in terms of like talking about this kind of language. Can you speak like that? That's for a different podcast though. Well, you've been speaking like it all podcasts. I mean, potty mouth for real. I think you're- Tell me your closing statements, tell me. I think I've said it.

I just think this was a big step forward. I think the whole episode as a whole, this episode moved things forward and I think everybody was fantastic. Big fan of Tricks of the Trade. It was a pleasure to watch. What about you? I have nothing to add, Your Honor.

So that's a wrap. Case closed. That is a wrap on Tricks of the Trade. Wait, we've never said case closed. We should always say case closed. Okay. Case closed. That's a wrap as a film thing.

Okay, ready? Let's say it together. Ready? One, two, three. Case closed. That's a wrap as a film thing. Okay, ready? Let's say it together. Ready? One, two, three. Case closed. That's a wrap on tricks of the trade. We are officially halfway through the first season. Real quick. You know what? I gotta say, I keep calling Kristin, our best researcher, Kristin, and the fact is that she's my friend Kiki, and I always call her Kiki, and I'm tired of calling you Kristin. So Kiki, can you give us the goddamn counter please for the week? No, we want to guess.

Oh yeah, definitely guess. What do you got? You know what? Jenny said goddamn. I heard that there. So I'm going to say it's between one and three. No, you have to pick a number. Between one and three is two.

Do you think it's two? Between one and three is two. We're mathing. I can do math too, good will hunting. We don't do ranges on the god damn counter, we pick a number. Three. I'm gonna go two. That was rude. That's rude.

We're gonna go two? Yeah. If he wins, he does win. Does anybody wanna guess the total though? Do you wanna go for a total? What are we at? Ehh... Ehh... Ehh...

Ehh... Ehh... Ehh... Ehh... Ehh... Ehh... Ehh... It is... You guys tricked me. 19. I'm a sore loser. No, 20, 23. Do you want to guess it? 18. Is it 18? Oh my God. First one.

Whatever. I'm not impressed. God damn it, Louis. Thank you for listening. Please make sure to rate, review, and subscribe. It is such a great way for you to support the show that we are loving making for you so much. Please do that wherever you get all of your podcasts.

And as always, we want to hear from all of you. If you have questions, thoughts, or ideas, or other things you'd like to hear from us on the pod, please send your emails to sidebarpodcastsatseriousxm.com. If you want to record an audio clip of the question, then go for it, and we can play it on the show. Thank you so much have a great week. Love you honey. Bye. Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams and Sirius XM Media. Our senior producers Kimmy Gregory and our producer and researcher is Kristen

Schrader. Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez. Our music is by Brendan Burns and our executive producers are Cody Fischer and Colin Anderson.