Sightings - Coyame UFO Crash: Mexico, 1974

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

When an unidentified object crashes just south of the US/Mexico Border, teams from two nations race towards the discovery of a lifetime - if they can survive long enough to claim it. Sightings is a REVERB and QCODE Original. Find us on instagram @sightingspod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions, and that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca. International borders have long been the setting for tense stories of clandestine crossings and daring escapes. But what are borders to something not of this world? And how far would a nation go to keep it secret? Welcome to Sightings, the series that takes you inside the world's most mysterious supernatural events. I'm McCloud. And I'm Brian.

And today, we've got our first government cover-up story, because in 1974, an unidentified object flew over our border into Mexico and crashed in the desert. So get ready for a race between nations, a mysterious contaminant, a cloak and dagger mission and a look inside what may be one of the biggest secrets in supernatural history. Find out the truth on this episode of Sightings. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Excuse me. Are you all set up? Oh, you're already recording. Okay, sorry. Put this here. How close to me? Is this... Do you want me like right on it? Or... Okay, I gotta stay a little bit back.

This good? Okay. Before I start, I want to say on the record that I've been told that this is for internal use only. Because if this leaks, it's going to be a disaster. back this good okay um before I start I want to say on the record that I've been told that this is for internal use only because if this leaks to the Times the Post doesn't matter the National Enquirer there's no telling how bad a shitstorm this is gonna be I mean I guess you know you know that already, so. Okay, I'll just start from the beginning then.

You can call me John, and what? Why are you looking at me like that? You think I'm gonna use my real name here? I don't know, label the tape with it, I don't care, but I'm not gonna risk being tied publicly to this. You aren't gonna be tied publicly to this. Are we good or not? Yeah, yeah, we're fine.

Okay, John. So, uh, August, last year, that's 1974 for the record, I was stationed at Fort Bliss, where I was liaison to a task force that used advanced surveillance to halt the flow of drugs across our southern border. At least that's usually how things went, because on August 25th, something else entirely crossed the border into the US. And it happened of our own volition. It was late, sometime after 10, maybe when the call came in, I was home watching the game.

When the call came in, I was home watching the game. Apparently, our radars had spotted an unidentified object a few hundred miles off the Texas coast, moving 2,500 miles an hour at 75,000 feet of altitude. Mind you, that's faster than any known aircraft could travel, so I immediately suspected a ballistic missile, one that happened to be heading straight for Corpus Christi. So, you know, even though I lived just five minutes from base, I was afraid that by the time I arrived, Corpus Christi would already be a flaming crater. But as I rushed into command, I saw that the object was not only still airborne, but it had slowed down and veered sharply west into Mexican airspace. So I immediately called headquarters and informed them of the incident.

Meanwhile, the unidentified object skirted just south of the border, charting a northwest trajectory that seemed to intentionally steer clear of population centers from which defensive aircrafts could be scrambled. Further, it began an unusual descent pattern, something almost like a series of stair-like steps which, in case you aren't familiar, isn't the behavior of a ballistic missile. So I was standing there wondering what this thing could have possibly been when one of the radio operators looked up at me and he said, it's the aliens, the same ones who crashed at Roswell back in the 50s. And I of course wanted to laugh because I operate on facts.

And until I saw otherwise with my own eyes, I refused to believe this was anything other than a temporarily unexplainable man-made craft. But if that had turned out to be the case, I guess I wouldn't be sitting here, would I? You know what, can I get a sprite or something? Thank you. Anyway, within 20 minutes, the object had traveled over 500 miles and was tearing across the Chihuahuan desert. We were having enough trouble just tracking the thing when I realized that something else was sharing the airspace with it. So I asked the radar operator to identify this new craft.

And, you know, after a moment of frantic checking, he confirmed that it was a civilian Cessna out of El Paso and from What we could tell it was flying 150 miles an hour at 7500 feet of altitude Which unfortunately happened to put it in an imminent collision course with the Unidentified object. We of course tried to hail the Cessna to warn it before it was too late, but it was too late and before we could even get a word out, both blips dropped off of our radar screen entirely. So, this, of course, you know, this presented a sticky situation for us. An American aircraft and a sophisticated object of unknown origin had just collided over foreign

soil, soil that was for all intents and purposes entirely off limits to us. So for the time being, all we could do was wait for daybreak and Soon as the Sun rose that morning we tracked the Mexican spotter plane that took off from Chihuahua City and started circling the desert outside a small Mexican town called Coyame and As those circles tightened we began to see in our satellite images evidence of debris But it was no aircraft or missile That I'd ever seen. No. Instead, this thing was circular in shape, whereas the Mexican spotter said it was saucer-shaped. At that, the radio operator who had made the crack about aliens, he gave me a, he gave me this look and smiled and I spent this next several minutes wrestling

with the fact that I'd become a party to what for all intents and purposes appeared to be a UFO crash. So I retreated to an office to call headquarters for guidance, but as soon as I picked up the phone, I heard the choppers coming in. So I ran outside to find three Hueys and one heavy lift sea stallion landing right outside our complex. And this group of guys from some unit I've never seen before come streaming out and they get to work and I just couldn't help feeling that they were executing a well rehearsed playbook that was entirely foreign to me. So I cornered one of the new guys, an acquaintance I'll call Fred, but all he said was that talks were happening at the highest levels to negotiate a joint recovery effort with the Mexicans. And my job was to remain in the command center and inform him of any changes I saw in the air or on the ground. So, yeah, in the command center I waited.

And soon enough, satellite photos revealed a line of trucks moving across the desert towards the crash site. It was a Mexican convoy, no doubt, and it included multiple vehicles, a particularly large flatbed, and, uh, I don't know, dozens of soldiers. So I raced across the complex and informed Fred of the development, and we watched as new photos came in showing that the convoy was already at the saucer's crash site. Some two dozen Mexican soldiers, none of whom were wearing protective suits I might add, worked to hoist this object onto the flatbed and cover it in a tarp and then as quickly as they seemed to arrive the convoy departed back toward Chihuahua City with the object in tow

Fred kicked a cabinet and shouted that we'd been had and Yeah, we had he was right the Mexicans had us by the balls but then Another another set of photos came in and And those I'm sorry where's is that sprite coming in? Thank you Yeah, another set of photos came in and well those they changed absolutely everything The The Mexican convoy had come to a screeching halt in the middle of the desert. All of the trucks had completely ceased to move and we saw the sharp outlines of motionless

bodies. Yeah, the entire convoy was dead. Immediately the command center phone rang. Headquarters must have seen the photos the same time we did. So Fred answered and listened. Then he hung up. Walk with me, he said. He spoke quickly, saying that whatever killed the Mexicans was just 30 miles from our border

and if it was some kind of airborne pathogen or weapon it needed to be contained immediately or the results could be, this is the word he used, apocalyptic. He said apocalyptic. He said the results could be apocalyptic. And before I knew it, we'd reached the line of waiting choppers where I noticed one unmistakable container being loaded into one of the Hueys. It was a Mark 54 Special Atomic Demolition Munition, or more colloquially a suitcase nuke. I stared at this thing as Fred climbed aboard the very same chopper and extended a hand to me.

And, uh, yeah, I can honestly say I don't know what I was thinking as I climbed aboard that bird, but I think I'll, I think I'll regret that decision for the rest of my life. And, um, I mean, of course I didn't know that then. So I mean, of course I didn't know that then, so. All I could register was that the rotors overhead were screaming to life and that we were lifting off the ground. We were on our way to Mexico and there was no turning back. Your teen requested a ride, but this time not from you. It's through their Uber Teen account. It's an Uber account that allows your teen to request a ride under your supervision with

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Learn more at OpenTable.ca forward slash Visa Dining. Thank you. So yeah, there we were. 20 men in total, four choppers speeding along the Mexican border and they all had the telltale haircuts of military men and based on their graying temples, strong builds, I assumed former special forces, no one said a word, including Fred, and that's when it became clear to me that this wasn't their first time doing something like this. But me? Well, I'd of course been afforded considerable insight into many of our country's top secrets, given my position, but... This was something else entirely. An unidentified flying object, dead Mexican

soldiers, I mean surely there was a logical explanation for all of this but yeah boy I I don't know if I've ever felt smaller than in that moment, riding that chopper. We get to the border town of Canalario. We veer across the Rio Grande and inter-Mexican airspace. When a red light illuminated overhead, the special forces guys begin dawning chemical protective equipment. And I realized I was to do the same, so I slipped on the thick bodysuit, hood, boots, gloves, like a hazmat suit,

just before we sat down on the convoy site. And the whole place just looked frozen in time. Nothing moved except for some tumbleweeds blowing by. And our special forces guys fanned out to create a defensive perimeter around the site and I followed Fred right into the thick of it. And I counted 24 bodies in total, most of them still in their vehicles, mouths open as if, you know, as if they've been caught entirely by surprise and died mid-breath. No blood anywhere. Nor were there any blisters, no foaming at the mouth, or anything else to suggest any

kind of chemical or biological attack. And I wanted to ask Fred what he thought had happened here, but he just strode towards the flatbed truck, ignoring all the bodies just straight to the flatbed truck, and with one quick motion, ripped the tarp off its cargo. And yeah, I can't believe I'm about to say this, but yeah, it was a flying saucer. Sixteen feet or so in diameter, five feet high. It shaped kind of almost like the planet Saturn, you know, with the sharp rim along its outer edge.

Honestly, it was eerie how clean the thing looked, almost like it had been plucked right off a Hollywood movie set. But as I stepped around the thing, I realized that it had taken some damage. There was a puncture in the metallic shell near the back rim, likely from its collision with the Cessna, I can only assume really. But while I was probably standing there like an idiot gawking at the thing, Fred barely seemed to give it much thought at all. He just said,

Fred barely seemed to give it much thought at all. He just said, load it up. And the men began wrapping the saucer in a new sand-colored tarp before securing straps around the entire thing. Then, just minutes after we landed, heavy-lift sea stallion was back in the air, ready to hoist the saucer out of Mexico, and once all the cables were locked in place, both chopper and saucer disappeared over the mountains.

There it goes. But we, we still weren't done at the convoy site. Fred told me and the other men to load the bodies of the Mexican soldiers, all 24 of them, into one big morbid pile. And I have to admit I found it odd that none of the bodies were examined or taken back to the States for analysis, which only reinforced my suspicion that this wasn't the first time Fred and the others had encountered something like this. But it wasn't the first time Fred and the others had encountered something

like this, but it wasn't my place to ask questions. So I helped haul those bodies, then helped drive the Mexican trucks into a tight circle around them. And then one man moved to the center of everything with that container The suitcase nuke And he pressed a button and he armed the thing Then we all loaded back into the choppers Sped northeast towards the border and once we were far enough away boom Yeah, however thing a

Hm. Yeah, hell of a thing. A little while later we caught up to the heavy lift carrying the saucer, and we all proceeded deep into the Davis mountains in Texas. And as soon as we landed, men rushed out to help ease the saucer to the ground, and set up another defensive perimeter. Apparently, we were supposed to wait there on that clearing until we handed the saucer off to another convoy that would take the thing elsewhere. Who knows? To some other convoy, and this another convoy. So for right then, all we could do was wait. Yeah, I don't think I said much while we were sitting there. I was just shell-shocked, to be honest. But eventually, Fred sat beside

me and told me I did good and said I was never to talk to anyone about this. Not my wife, not my future children, not anyone. And I haven't until now. But seeing as this is for the agency and all, I suppose it doesn't count. And I figure no one else talked either because nothing showed up in the press, neither here nor in Mexico. So, yeah, that was that. He said you want me to talk about my feelings, how I felt in all this?

Well, sure. I have to say, um, as we sat there in the dark, I wanted to ask Fred Moore, I, uh, I wanted to ask him to explain how our careers had diverged so radically, uh, with him being privy to our nation's most disturbing secrets and me just being along for the ride. But I held my tongue and just took in the stars wondering what anything even meant anymore. Uh, yeah. Then after a few more hours we got word that the handoff team was ready so we loaded back into the choppers and flew a few miles south to a county road near Van Horn. There the saucer was lowered onto a waiting truck and men worked to

seal these thick faux walls around it so it looked like any other wide-body transport. And with that, the saucer was gone and I never saw it again. Once we returned to Fort Bliss, I wanted to ask where the saucer was ultimately heading, but thought better of it. But later when we're all sitting around around I think I heard whispers that it was bound for Atlanta where the Center for Disease Control would take possession of it whether that's true or not anyone's guess but I'm looking at

your face right now and I'm guessing it was because you know. So what else can I say? I asked for a desk job after that and I suppose it's no secret to you since I'm here now recording this but I just decided to take a job in the private sector. Yeah, I'd like to say it was for the pay, but that'd be a lie. No, I've seen enough secrets for one lifetime. Thank you very much. Anything else? Sightings will be back just after this. Amazon Black Friday week is here with up to 35% off toys to stuff their stocking. Noise canceling tech to silent their night.

And fashion like slippers to missile their toes. Shop Amazon's Black Friday deals now. Upper Canada College inspires boys from senior kindergarten to year 12 to find their passions and realize their potential. An IB world school, UCC offers a supportive environment, cutting-edge facilities and a best-in-Canada financial assistance program. UCC, a place where tradition, excellence and innovation meet. Learn more about all that UCC has to offer at UCC.ON.CA Welcome back to Sightings. I'm itching to dig into that story for a couple of

different reasons. We're gonna figure out what's real, what's not, what's believable, what's not. But first, I have to say I dug the stripped-back, like, tape recorder style of this one, Brian. Yeah, I felt like this was the way to go on this story, because we're in government conspiracy and cover-up territory here. Right, but this is so much more than just a cover-up story. It's got a crashed UFO, a race against time, a deadly biological agent. I mean, it sounds like a blockbuster movie.

Brian, get on that. I'll get working on that pitch right away. It really is a great story though, which is why I wanted to do it on this show. But I guess the question for me is, you know, do we actually believe it or not? So before we dig into the story, I wanted to kind of get your skeptical gecko read right off the bat on this whole genre of government cover-up conspiracy style stuff, you know, like Roswell, Area 51.

You know, I think generally I'm a little more open to some of this stuff than maybe monsters that we've encountered previously. I definitely think there are government cover-ups and interesting nuances there. Whether it's actual UFOs and actual aliens, I do tend to be a little skeptical about that. I think sometimes aliens provide a convenient cover story for worse normal stuff that's going on.

But I mean, I guess a lot has to do with kind of the provenance of this particular story. And I have to say, the narrative of this was just so out there. I figured it had to be at least partially dramatized by you. Yeah, I would have thought the same thing too, if I had heard this. But this story was, beat for beat, the known account of this incident. And of course, I had to make up the main character, but that's just because we don't actually

know who any of the identities of the people were who were involved with this incident, officially, at least. Oh, okay, which leads me to my first question. I mean, how do we even know about this incident officially at least. Oh, okay, which leads me to my first question. I mean, how do we even know about this incident? I'm sure the government isn't just telling the world they snuck into Mexico and stole a crashed UFO, like, yeah, let's just let people know that. Yeah. No, this story has a really vague provenance

with most of the, I guess, quote-unquote, facts of the account being cobbled together from this one document that came out of the blue in the 90s called the Deneb Report. The Deneb Report. That sounds moderately official. Is it the word report? It's the word report, literally. Yeah, it wasn't official at all, it seems. In fact, there are actually no official government

documents referring to this event anywhere that anyone's found so far. But this report, the Dineb report, which was written by someone called JS, that's all we know, it popped up in the 90s and- And do we know anything about this JS? Like, what does that even mean? John Smith? Your guess is as good as mine. It could be any random name, it could be something like joint staff if you want to go government with it. All I can say is that whoever this person was that wrote this, it's clear that if it actually happened, they had a front row seat for it because they were describing events down to the minute in a lot of these cases.

HOFFMAN So maybe some kind of CIA guy, like in our story or some similar thing to the CIA. BOWEN Yeah, maybe that or some other military official who waited, I guess, 18 years until they retired to finally spill the beans. But even then, this report is addressed to Deneb team members. Yeah, what is Deneb? Do you know? Nope, I don't know.

No one seems to know. It's just, it could be something as simple as like, it's a UFO fan group or something. It could be some weird government organization. So all we have is this sketchy, uncorroborated document, this one sketchy document. Yep, basically. But in a weird way, I suppose it seems somewhat plausible that this could have happened without any shred of public knowledge or evidence. I'm sure there's a lot of things, like you mentioned earlier,

that the government can sweep under the rug. Maybe nothing as fantastical as an alien spacecraft crashes in Mexico and we're racing across the border to get it. But I think something like this could have theoretically happened and no one could have been the wiser. I'm skeptical, but I'll reserve judgment until I learn more about it. So let's dig into it. When are we? 1974 in Fort Bliss, Texas, is

that right? Right. And that was the home of something called the El Paso Intelligence Center, which was in the story. And it was tasked with monitoring the border to kind of stem the flow of legal drugs across the border. And I should say that they had pretty significant surveillance tools at their disposal back then, even in 1974. We had these high altitude reconnaissance aircraft. There were radio interceptors.

There were these satellites called keyhole satellites that they first put into orbit in 1971. And they could see things down to like six inches wide, basically. Wow. And they spot this thing in the air. Yeah. And this thing is moving faster than any known manned aircraft could. And before they even know it, this thing's over Mexico, and then it crashes into this other aircraft, and it goes down in the desert. Exactly. So the big question I had while reading this, why in the world didn't the US or Mexico just rush in under the cover

of night to grab it since that's what they ended up trying to do to each other anyway? It's a really good question. All I can say is that this site was a hundred miles from Chihuahua City, 50 miles from Coyama. It was the middle of nowhere in this really unforgiving, rocky mountainous area. It seems like a search at night might have been futile if they're looking for pieces of aircraft or missile or whatever this thing was. To complicate the plot a little bit, this also happened to be in an area known in Mexico as the Zona del Silencio, which is basically Mexico's Bermuda Triangle. Wow.

So there's culturally specific Bermuda Triangles. I have only ever heard of the Bermuda Triangle. Wow. So there's culturally specific Bermuda Triangles. I've only ever heard of the Bermuda Triangle. I didn't know there was other ones. What is that? What's their version of it? I hadn't heard of it either. But it's this swath of desert where there have been numerous sightings of UFOs and actual alien beings by farmers.

Other sightings? Other sightings of lots of different things in this area. Apparently this area is also said to generate a weird electromagnetic energy field that can disrupt radios, telephones, aircraft instruments, et cetera. I don't know if that actually factored into anything related to this particular story, if that's what caused these things to crash, but it's kind of a neat factoid.

Yeah, seems like a pretty natural place for an aircraft or a UFO collision to happen. And so soon after the crash, these mysterious government guys show up at Fort Bliss. Yeah, according to the Deneb report, they were CIA agents, but whoever they were, it was clear that they wanted into Mexico ASAP. Now it's worth noting that this wasn't the first time that something random had crashed in the Mexican desert. There were V-2 missile crashes in the 1940s all the way through the 1970s that would happen over the border.

We even had an ICBM crash near Durango, Mexico. And because of this history of, I guess, American equipment going wrong over Mexican skies, the U.S. and Mexico, they had this agreement in place where the Mexicans would basically defer to the Americans whenever there was a crash like this, because these crash sites could have been toxic or radioactive or whatever,

and Mexico either didn't want to or wasn't equipped to handle it. So it sounds like the US was pretty much free to do whatever they wanted anyway. That was already the running agreement. But in this case, they waited, and because of that, the Mexicans went in first. Yeah. As soon as the sun came up, the Mexicans were on the move.

And one theory says that this happened because these top level agreements, I guess, between espionage programs or whatever, didn't always filter down to kind of the rank and file on these Mexican military bases. So maybe the army in Chihuahua, which was the nearest city, didn't get the memo, so to speak. And as soon as the sun came up, they sent their guys in. Big mistake, because they retrieved this UFO and then disaster strikes and they're

hurling behind a rock. Not even, they just died. They just died. I don't even know actually how far the convoy made it before it just stopped dead in its tracks and everyone just stopped moving. And so according to this story, anyway, I have to assume that whatever killed them came from the UFO.

But the UFO wasn't even damaged, was it? Considering that it was going 2,500 miles an hour and smashed into a Cessna, it was remarkably intact. Which is insane. I mean, I'd have thought it would be obliterated. Well, the Cessna was, I think. They never really found the pieces of the Cessna. But this UFO just had a dent in it, basically,

and a small hole. And this hole from someone who looked into it, who wrote the Deneb report, says that there was nothing visible inside of it. Yeah, just some toxic gas or some other kind of biological agent leaking out and killing everyone. I guess so. And that's why I'm so shocked that the Mexican government just marched on in there without any kind of protection whatsoever.

Even if it wasn't a UFO, they probably didn't know what this thing was. It seemed awfully cavalier to me. And of course, as soon as the US government realized that the convoy stopped, of course, we swept in as quickly as possible too. And they just find a graveyard. Pretty much. So if I'm one of these CIA special forces agents, you've got to be freaked out, like intensely fearful that this could be something that could sweep through the entire planet

and just lay everyone out at once. I mean, was there any indication at all what actually killed these Mexican soldiers? Was it a virus? Was it bacteria? There was no visible signs of anything, which I guess could point to anything, basically. But there was no foaming at the mouth or blood anywhere. They just stopped dead in their tracks

and didn't try to grab their guns or do anything else. So speculation is kind of rampant. Was it a chemical released from the wreckage? Was it a biological agent? Was it something else that we can't even conceive of? I guess we'll never know because the crazy thing about this is no one from the United States government actually stopped to really examine the bodies up close. Everything just seemed focused on bagging the CFO.

Which is crazy to me. You'd think that they'd at least take one body or run some kind of test or something. I mean, anything. It raises the question then whether or not, like the main character was wondering in the story, whether or not the government knew what they were dealing with here and encountered this kind of situation before. Exactly, which is what makes me wonder if this report is full of it,

because you would think that that would be something that they would mention and that the government would do. Or this has been happening so many times that they're just not even batting an eye. They're just like, we're going to go recover the wreckage. Yeah, that's crazy too. That's mind blowing. I guess the only thing that really lends credence to this is that the CIA showed up right away

with their unmarked helicopters. And when they landed in Mexico, they were on the ground for only 21 minutes, I think, before that UFO was loaded up and carted out of the country. They were moving fast, like clockwork. Right, they knew what they were doing. They had one mission, one mission only, get the UFO, sweep it away to never be seen again by anyone, and then... And then, this is one of the wildest things, blow up this site with this suitcase nuke.

That really happened? That's the thing, that has to be something that someone can verify. So investigators did go to Koyama years ago to question people and find out if anyone saw, heard, experienced anything. But finding anyone who was actually there in 1974 and stayed in Koyama is easier said than done, apparently.

And further, anyone who was present seemed to clam up as soon as anyone started asking questions, almost like they were told not to talk about anything. Creepy, creepy. But there is, so they're not willing to talk about it, but there must be some kind of corroborating evidence, physical evidence, a crater, anything? There is a newspaper article from Chihuahua,

Mexico, the major newspaper there, that said that the head of the military base that the convoy that ended up dead was dispatched from got fired or relocated or something with zero explanation a month after this incident allegedly happened. Tom Bilyeu Yeah, bad shit happens when you kill 20 of your men. I suppose so. But is that just coincidence that the head of the space happened to leave or did something actually happen, I guess is the question.

The History Channel also did a documentary about this whole event and investigators there or on one of the other missions to figure out what happened reportedly found aircraft wreckage outside of Koyama, you know, little pieces of stuff. And then there was a suspicious hole in the ground that suggests that some kind of explosion happened, but whether it was a nuke or not, I don't know. The point is, though, that no one can actually connect any of this physical evidence or anything that got found, really, to an actual incident, let alone this Koyama incident.

Yeah, let alone specifically aliens, I guess. And I just can't get over the fact that there is no concrete proof, given how intense and physical and violent this story ended up being, that there's no concrete proof that anything actually happened. I mean, we at least know Area 51 exists. Like, that's a real thing. It's a real thing, right?

It's a real thing. No, yeah, it's a real thing. It's a real thing, right? It's a real thing. No, yeah, it's a real base. And there's newspaper articles about something crashing at Roswell. Maybe it was a meteor, maybe it was an alien, but something happened in Roswell and there's enough corroborating evidence. So either this one was the most top secret

government operation in history and they actually, boom, buttoned it up hardcore, or it's just complete bullshit. Yeah, I have to wonder though, for the sake of the show I think, if there's some kind of middle ground between those extremes though. For example, I think we've been envisioning this

as an alien spacecraft or something like that because this is a supernatural kind of show. Is there a world in which this something did crash in Mexico, we did go in and retrieve it, but it was, you know, maybe it was a Russian craft or something like that. This was the middle of the Cold War. Oh, interesting. See, that to me is far more plausible and actually, for the sake of politics, I can

see it wanting to be leaked that, oh yeah, it was just a UFO crash. There's crazy stuff out there. Don't worry about the how close we got to World War III. But I mean, even if it was some kind of Russian technology, it still killed all those soldiers if that actually happened. And we just put a tarp over it and we bring it back over our border like no big deal. Yeah, it is a tough one. I mean, it's a killer story, as we've said, but I don't know. I

mean, I think I'm more inclined to believe a conspiracy story like this as opposed to there's a monster in the swamp or, you know, there's a ghost in my house or something like that because it just speaks to something bigger. Right. And I tend to agree. I think there's more room to find motive in the high stakes games of international politics and more potential for mass coordination of efforts when you're dealing with something like the government. Thank you for saying it so much better than I was trying to. Well, hey, you know, that's my weird team. But anyway, listeners, if you're the missing link that actually knows, are you Deneb? Email us at theories at sightingspodcast.com or hit our socials at SightingsPod.

And don't forget to hit the subscribe button on your podcast player if you haven't already and tell your friends about us. And I think I am ready for some clues for where we're heading next week. Well we are staying outside the United States and this time we're going across the pond to Scotland. Scotland! Kilts! Lochnes! Lochnes! I'm not saying anything. Because I guessed it! You aren't here listeners, we're doing the Loch Ness Monster. I'm sticking to it. And you'll have to come back next week to find out if I'm right.

Alright, see you all then. Seriously, you're not giving me anything? Nope. Sightings is hosted by McLeod Andrews and Brian Sigley. Produced by Brian Sigley, Chase Kinzer, and McLeod Andrews. Written by Brian Sigley. Series music by Mitch Bain. Story sound design by McCubbin Owens.

Mixing and mastering by Pat Kickleiter of Sundial Media. Artwork by Nuno Cernatus. For a list of this episode's sources, check out our website at sightingspodcast.com. Sightings is presented by Reverb and Q-Code. If you like the show, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you're first to hear new episodes every week. And if you know other Supernatural fans,

tell them about us. We'd really appreciate it.