SignalsAZ.com Prescott News Podcast - Balancing Water, Business, Population Growth, Housing Costs: Latest Water Lawsuit in Arizona

Episode Date: January 22, 2025

Send us a text and chime in!We asked Google's NotebookLM to simplify the latest news on the lawsuit the Goldwater Institute is bringing against the Governor of Arizona, Hobbs' water policy that the Institute argues illegally restricts new housing construction.The policy, implemented by the Arizona Department of Water Resources, uses a flawed "unmet demand" model to determine groundwater availability, effectively halting development in large areas of Maricopa County. This action is deemed illegal because it bypassed required legislative authorization and formal rulemaking processes. The lawsuit claims this policy exacerbates Arizona's housing crisis and violates basic democratic principles. The plaintiffs are the Goldwater Institute and the Home Builders Association of Central Arizona.However you look at it, we must learn to balance population growth, housing costs, business, and our water supply.Check out the CAST11.com Website at: https://CAST11.com Follow the CAST11 Podcast Network on Facebook at: https://Facebook.com/CAST11AZFollow Cast11 Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/cast11_podcast_network

All right, diving right in. We're tackling the Arizona housing crisis today. A lot to unpack here. Yeah, here is. You guys sent in articles, research your own notes. So Governor Hobbs administration just came out with this new water policy. And let's just say people are not thrilled. No, they're not.

It's actually gotten to the point where the Goldwater Institute, which, you know, is a libertarian public policy think tank. Right. And the Home Builders Association of Central Arizona, they're actually teaming up to take the state to court over this. I think what's really interesting here is this sort of, it brings into really sharp focus, the tension between needing more housing, more affordable housing in Arizona and the reality of water resources. Yeah. It's limited water resources. Yeah, Arizona's had this law in the books for a long time now, the 100-year water supply rule. Right.

And basically, this says if you're going to build new homes, you have to prove that you have enough water. to support those homes for a century, which, you know, on the surface seems to make sense. But the Arizona Department of Water Resources, ADWR, has come in with this new unmet demand policy that's kind of throwing a wrench in the works. And that's what's interesting is unmet demand isn't actually an Arizona law. Okay. So what they're doing is they're saying, we know it's not in there specifically, but we think it's implied.

And this is kind of leading to this legal challenge because the Goldwater Institute's basic argument is that ADWR is like overstepping their bounds and making policy when they should be leaving that to the legislature. Gotcha. So that's the legal side of things. But just from a practical standpoint, how does this unmet demand thing work? Like, what does that actually mean in practice? Well, the way it was is they used to look at this specific site.

Right. Of a development. Can that aquifer support the development? Yeah. This kind of throws that out the window. Oh, wow. So now what they're saying is you have to demonstrate that. the entire water management area can sustain 100 years, not just your development.

Right. So you could have a development in Buckeye, which is west of Phoenix. Okay. And because there's a projected water shortage in the East Valley, that could stop your development in Buckeye, even if Buckeye has water. Wow. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, right? So it seems like this model is leading to some pretty ridiculous outcomes.

Yeah. And that's their argument, too. They're saying that this model is based on some flawed assumptions. Okay. Like one thing is they use these hypothetical wells that they assume stay in the same place for over 100 years. Right. But, you know, that's not how wells work. Right.

You have to drill new wells. Wells run dry. You have to move them around. Yeah. And this model doesn't really take any of that into account. Right. So they're kind of playing pretend with wells and calling that like their scientific justification. Right.

And, of course, the Goldwater Institute, you know, they're coming at this from a very libertarian perspective. so less government, more individual freedom. Yeah. So they're obviously going to be a little skeptical of anything that looks like government overreach, especially when you start talking about property rights and things like that. Yeah. And of course, this is all happening against this backdrop of a pretty intense housing crisis in Arizona. Housing affordability is a huge issue.

Yeah, it is. And it seems like this new policy is just going to throw fuel on that fire. Yeah, it'll limit housing, especially these areas that are known for more affordable. Right. And I'm seeing some pretty spicy quotes here in the research, both from John Riches over at Goldwater and Jackson Mole at the Home Builders Association. They are not mincing words. But before we get into that, I think it would be helpful to sort of zoom out a little bit and talk about how this new unmet demand policy fits into the broader context of water management in Arizona. Yeah, that's a good idea. We'll do that when we come back. Okay, so we've talked about how controversial this unmet demand policy is. But where does it fit into this like bigger picture of how Arizona manages its water? I mean, it's always been a challenge, right? You're in a desert. Water's scarce and the population just keeps growing and growing and growing. I mean, they've done a good job for a long time.

Yeah. But climate change is making it even tougher. Right. Because even without this new policy, Arizona's already facing some pretty serious water challenges. Oh, absolutely. I mean, longer droughts. Right. The Colorado River is shrinking. The aquifers are being depleted faster than they can recharge. It's a recipe for, you know, conflict.

Yeah. And then you drop this policy on top of it. That's going to limit development in some areas. Yeah. And I'm seeing in some of this research that some experts are saying this could have like a ripple effect throughout the entire state's economy. Yeah. And that's the interesting thing, right? Because it's not just about housing.

Limiting development in places where land is cheap. Right. could push that growth into areas where lands already expensive, driving up housing costs even more, which makes it harder to attract businesses. Right. Harder to keep people there. Right. It's like a chain reaction. Exactly.

You make one change and then all these other things start happening. Yeah. And that's what makes this lawsuit so interesting, right? Because it's forcing Arizona to kind of have this conversation about its future. Right. Like how much growth can the state really support? Exactly. What are we willing to give up to protect the water we have left?

Right. And who gets to make this? those decisions. Yeah. So big questions. Let's talk about the lawsuit itself. Okay. What are some of the potential outcomes here?

What happens if the Goldwater Institute wins? Well, if Goldwater wins, I think it's a really big deal in terms of the balance of power between the governor's office and the legislature. It could set a precedent that state agencies can't just make big policy changes without the legislature signing off. So it would be a win for limited government. basically. Exactly. But like what about housing? What about development? How would that be impacted? That's where it gets kind of complicated. If the unmet demand policy gets thrown out.

It probably opens the door for more development in areas that are currently restricted. That could mean more affordable housing options, which would be great. Right. But it could also put more pressure on those already stressed water resources. So it's like you're solving one problem. Right. But creating another one. Exactly. Yeah. That's tricky. What if that's Hobbs administration wins. What happens then? I think if Hobbs wins, it kind of signals that the state's willing to get more, yes, aggressive, you could say, about water management, even if it ruffles some feathers. It basically says that agencies have the power to interpret the law and make changes based on stuff like climate change. Right. So it gives them more flexibility. Exactly. But I mean,

let's be real. Even if they win in court. Right. They're still going to be facing the same problems. Oh, yeah, for sure. growing population, less and less water, and a climate that's changing. This lawsuit's not going to magically fix that. Right. So it seems like Arizona's at a crossroads here. Big decisions coming up. Absolutely.

Really high stakes. Yeah. I think the outcome of this lawsuit is going to have a big impact on Arizona for years to come. Well, a lot to think about for sure. When we come back, let's maybe shift gears a little bit and look at some of the potential solutions that are being proposed for all this. Okay, so we've covered a ton of ground here. We have. Housing crisis, unmet demand policy, the lawsuit, the big picture of water in Arizona.

It's a lot. Kind of feels like drinking from a firehouse, honestly. But let's maybe try to, like, end on a more positive note. What are some things that Arizona is doing or could be doing to actually, like, fix this stuff? I mean, the good news is Arizona's been dealing with water scarcity for decades, Right? So they've had to innovate. And there's a lot of really cool stuff happening like on the tech side and on the policy side. Okay. Like what kind of tech are we talking about? Well, one area that's really promising is water recycling. Okay. You know, reusing wastewater. Think about all the water that goes down the drain every day. A lot of that can be treated and used for irrigation, for industry, even for putting back into the aquifers. I've heard about like Israel and Singapore doing that kind of thing. Is Arizona doing that too? Yeah, they're already doing it. There are big water recycling projects in Arizona and more. are in the works. Tucson, for example, they treat their wastewater to a really high standard, and then they use it to recharge the aquifer. It's basically like creating a new source of drinking water. Wow, that's amazing. So it's not just about saving the water we have. It's about, like, making more water. Exactly. And when it comes to conservation, there's a lot we can do there too, like using smarter irrigation systems.

Right. You know, with sensors. So you only use the water you really need, landscaping that doesn't need as much. Much water, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Makes sense. But tech's only part of the equation, right? Right. What about policy? What kind of policy changes would help?

I mean, we need policies that actually reflect the fact that the climate is changing. Right. So maybe that means changing how we price water. Right. How we allocate water rights. Okay. Maybe even creating new incentives for people to conserve. So give me some examples.

Like, what are you thinking about specifically? Well, one thing we could look at is tiered pricing. Okay. The more water you use, the more you pay. Right. It encourages people to conserve. Plus, it brings in money that can be used for water infrastructure or conservation programs. Okay.

What about water rights? Water rights in Arizona are complicated. It's a whole system that's been in place for a long time. Right. But we might need to update it so it works better in a drier climate. Okay. Maybe make it easier to move water around to where it's needed most, even if it means crossing, like county lines or whatever. Those are some pretty big changes.

They are. Do you think people are actually willing to do that? It's tough. Yeah. Water is a sensitive issue. Right. Anytime you try to change things, someone's going to be upset. But I think more and more people are realizing that we can't keep doing things the same way.

Yeah. Makes sense. I'm seeing in this research that there are all these different groups working on the stuff. Yeah. Government agencies, researchers, environmental groups, even businesses. It's going to take everyone working together to figure this out. Yeah. So it's not a quick fix.

It's not one thing. it's a bunch of different things all working together. Exactly. Well, this has been really eye-opening, going from this, like, very specific legal battle over this one policy to this much bigger question of, like, what's the future of water in Arizona? How do we balance growth and sustainability? Like, what's the takeaway here for you? For me, the takeaway is that water isn't just like a thing. It connects everything.

The environment, our communities, our future. how we take care of it is going to determine what Arizona looks like down the road. It's like that old saying, every drop counts. Well, on that note, I think we're going to wrap things up here. But as you guys keep learning about this stuff, keep in mind, you know, what are the tradeoffs with different ways of managing water? How do we balance the needs of a growing population with, you know, the fact that water is a limited resource? Those are the big questions to keep asking. Thanks for joining us for another deep dive.