Single Ladies In Your Area - Cheating

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

This week Amy and Harriet tackle the thorny subject of cheating. Is there a healthy way to get past an incident of cheating in a relationship? How do you build trust back? And should we write to our MPs to make lying illegal?We want to hear your dating stories! Email in at [e-mail] Single Ladies In Your Area on Instagram @singleladiespodRecorded and edited by Aniya Das for Plosive.Artwork by Welcome Studio. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, hello, this is Harriet Kemsley, and I'm very excited to be back on tour around the UK with my new show, Flusi. As listeners of the podcast will know, I am really trying my best to be a bit of a flusie, but it's not going particularly well. The dates are on sale now. It's going to be autumn 2026. For tickets and information, head to plosive.com.com. Hello, I'm Amy Gledhill. And I'm Harriet Kemsley. We're both single and in our 30s. And we've found ourselves back on the dating scene. And the landscape has changed. Everyone has settled down. But we're back out there.

We're desperately trying to figure out what the hell we should be doing. So we're going to speak to experts. Chat about dates we've been on. If we managed to get any. And share your tips and horror stories. So we all feel less alone. We might even get our exes on. Yeah, we'll see about that.

This is Single Ladies in Your Area. Hello, everybody. Oh, hello. That was very sophisticated. It was very official, wasn't it? It was very official, yeah. I feel like because of today's subject, I'm going to go in very officially. Oh, I love that.

Yes. This is my stance. Oh, my God. I'm on question time. And how do you feel about it? Come on. Yes or no. Yes or no.

I don't know. I don't know. We don't know. Be kind to us. We're talking this episode about cheating. Bam, ba, ba, ba'am. It should be like a new sting there, doesn't it? It should.

I just feel like, you know, it's a hard-hitting topic. It is, yeah. And it's the cause of many, many ends of relationships. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have very strong feelings about it. Like, I have very, like, official feelings about it. Official feelings.

This is my official statement about how I feel about cheating. But in the past, I was, in the past, I was, in the past, I was. was a cheater. The plot thickens. Yeah, it's very interesting, isn't it? That's very interesting. It's often like people that give up smoking that like hate smoking the most. You know what I mean?

And they're like, ugh, can you stop doing that? It's disgusting habit. And you're like, you're smoking last week? What is wrong with you? Come on. You've got a cigarette tattooed on your tricep. A serial cheetah? Yes, but it was like, it was only in like short-term relationships that were like,

you're young and no one was really in it. Do you think the relationships were short term because you cheated? Oh, that's interesting. That is interesting. I only cheated in relationships where they finished with me when they found out I was cheating. So, no, looking back, I did do it. But it was like in my teenage years.

In my teenage years and my early 20s. And like most of the time it was like, because I was like, I don't think they really care about me. And so it doesn't matter. You know what I mean? Like, I think it matters. But then if I did think that they did care, then I would break up with them immediately.

That sounds like a good plan. So there really is no possible trying to have a happy outcome there. Because they care and you need to finish with them. Or they don't care and you cheat on them and then you break up. Yeah. Yeah. Either way, I just think I have, I do not like the idea of secrecy. That's one thing I don't like.

I think it's very hard for the relationship to continue. Yes. If you've done that. I like openness and honesty. Now. I did once do it when I was 15 and didn't tell, but then he found out later. I think at 15. And he broke up with me like a month later, so it felt like...

Oh, so he broke up with you before he knew? Yeah, so I think he wasn't that into it maybe. Okay. But then if I liked them and we're into it, I'm not doing it. And also you were 15, you're a tiny baby. It was just a baby. You're a tiny baby. Come on. Baby's cheat.

Baby's cheat. Get over it. Baby's going to cheat. Baby's going to cheat. Let's get that on a ticket for merch. Baby's going to cheat. So only immature relationships I felt like then I think it's fine. But I think if you're in something proper, you've said, I love you. I agree.

So I also cheated when I was a tiny baby. But for a different reason than you did, I cheated because I thought, because his mum said that we had to be together forever. And I was going to be the stepdaughter. I was like, I've never got with anyone else in my entire life. I got to cheat. And then I'm going to be with him forever. Yeah.

And then I... Noble. It was noble. Yes. Yes. Thank you, can you hear that? That's the sound of the listeners clapping. Wow.

I can hear a little pitter, pitter. Little pitter patter of noble clapping. Yeah, good for you. For my noble gesture. Because then you'd be, look, he doesn't want an inexperienced woman for the rest of his life. No. You want somebody that's seen things and done things. He wants someone...

That is good wifing. Thank you. Yes. He wants someone who has slept with her second ever boy in a bed. in a bed and by that I don't mean on a bed

I mean this guy he had a bed frame but no slats so it's just a mattress on the floor with a bed frame around it

and I was like this is actually pretty cool and he's like yeah it feels like a boat and I was like it does and he didn't have a working toilet so you had to piss in the bath

and if you needed a poo you'd go outside so I picked a good guy I'm sorry. We're outside. Well, that's the thing. He didn't have a garden. I just need to explain.

Listen, I just put my hand and I just rested it on my forehead. Because I just, I needed to rest my head. I was so stressed by this story that I had to rest my hand on my head. Yeah. And you've not moved it. And it's still there. I can't move it. What do you mean you had to shit in the garden, but there wasn't even a garden?

Well, I didn't. I never dared to poo. Thank you. Okay. Great. But he did. And he would be like, I'm just going to go to the toilet. And then I'd hear him unlock his front door.

Beep, beep, beep, big. Go down the steps. And there was like a little patch of grass. So it was like flats. And it was like in front of the front door. There was a little patch of grass. Oh, there was a bit more grass across the road. I don't know where he was doing it.

And also he didn't have toilet paper. You had to wipe with a newspaper, free newspaper. Oh, I think I've broken you. You stopped blinking or looking at me. I've never seen you like this. It's the bleakest story I've ever heard. Acting like this is so normal. Like, yeah, he just goes down the front door,

and he just sits in a bit of grass outside. What are you talking about, Amy? What do you mean? And how are you not walking in past a pile of shit? Like, I don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand the story. I don't know how long his toilet was out of action.

Maybe it was like a relatively new thing, but he was very chilled about, like, I'm just pumped to the toilet. That's part of the problem. That's part of the problem. Why is nobody finding this unusual? Even a bit unusual. Even if you were like, it was a bit weird, but you haven't even said that. You know what?

At the time, I think I was just like, I guess this is what men are like. I'm just like fully accepted. Like, guess they just shit on the street and live in a bed on the floor. It's like, guess this is just what it's like. He's like a bear or something. Yeah. But so you never knew he just went outside. Yeah.

You did his business. Somewhere. Somewhere. And look, if he didn't have toilet paper in the bathroom, he definitely wasn't taking anything with him to wipe. So I guess he just came back. I'm now rubbing my head. I'm just having to rub my head.

Does this put my more recent exes in more perspective? Like, I do think they're getting better. Like, there is an upswing over time. You mustn't get into a relationship and for a while. You need to, we need to reset. to reset because you've accepted this as normal. So like the bar, this you thought is normal. And so we need to raise, like, you have the climb, like,

so many more rungs up the ladder, like, because you're in a hole right now. And so you need to get out of the hole. First, you just get out of the hole because you've got minus. Like, the bar is underground. You've got to get out. And then you've got to, like, find, like, a little hot air balloon that's going to take you above.

Lift me up. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I guess saying it out loud like, it is mad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, good. It's good you acknowledge that.

Yeah. That's good. I think it's mad that that's who I decided to, in my head, the only other person in the world I was ever going to be with. And I was like, I guess it's this guy. So this is the one that you were going to be with forever? No, this is the one I cheated with. Because I was like, this is my one chance.

Yeah. And I took that chance and then was like, ugh. Blah. Yeah. Didn't like that very much. Yeah. Yeah. And then went back to.

my partner. Partner, I've 15, but like little boyfriend, partner is too mature a word. And then I told him and it didn't go well, he was very upset. And then we broke up. And I was like, honestly, relieved. Yeah, I think you didn't want to be with him forever. I didn't want to be with him forever. You thought, I don't want to, but I do not know how to communicate this. Yeah. And this is exactly what I would do as well. If I didn't really like someone, then I'd cheat on them and then I'd be like, oh, but now I have to break up with them because I've cheated on them. You know? It's a complex psychological thing for a tiny 15 year old baby,

cheating baby to go through. Yeah. But yeah, I was delighted. Because I remember as well... I think maybe I said before. A shame you had to... You had to have sex with that man that's shit in the... That's shitty-assed man.

Yeah, it's a shame that that had to happen. Yeah. And I guess, yeah, if anyone's listening, that is considering that, I don't know why they would be. But if they are considering it, then you can just... have a chat and say, actually the idea of being with you forever makes me feel very sad. So let's just call it off now, I guess. That would have been a better thing to do and I'm learning that as I go on.

Yeah, but you just don't, I mean, you just need these things and we've talked about more. You just don't understand your feelings or what's happening is you just make decisions, you act in ways to try and understand them. Yeah, and also, I think I was going to say I hadn't been cheated on until I didn't know how painful it was. I had been cheated on and I knew it was the worst. feeling in the world. It's mad that I did that actually. We just got to get fingered by pancake day.

I think being cheated on, when you're in a relationship and you're in love, is just, there's something about it that just your heart kind of, like, shuts down. It's just so painful. It's one of the most painful things I've gone through being cheated on. Not that time when I was 14, but like in adult life. And it's so crazy because you can kind of like, You can intellectualize it and be like, okay, people make mistakes. Also, I've had crushes on people and still love this guy. So I know you can like love two people at once. Also with polyamory, like maybe we're reexamining if monogamy is the right thing to do.

But when it happens, fuck me. It is like a needle going through your heart, draining it and you're like hollow. You feel, I felt sick. I felt like physically sick for weeks because it was just like, it was like a physical reaction that I didn't expect. I found it like mortifying. Absolutely mortifying. Yeah.

So I've talked about it before and so I feel like I'm saying here. But it's like it's very much in the past and it's very complicated because yeah, my ex before we got married in hindsight, all of this stuff you know when you're saying a lot and you're like, this is nuts. Like I was just like, you know, like really judging you. But yeah, if we look at my own baby, we can. Let's hold a mirror up to my own. decisions.

Yeah, when I'd moved in, I was living with what would become my husband and then my ex-husband. He was in a bad place. It was a difficult thing where there was always a lot of empathy for him because he was always trying. But, I mean, I don't even know. This story is so nuts. But he's sober, literally since this moment. Yeah.

But his drinking was getting more and more out of hand. And then the drinking would lead to other things. And then I got this call. He had been doing gigs in Geneva in the Alps. And then he'd gone to Geneva to stage. near the airport and I got a call when I was on my way to the airport to go meet him and he'd come to in a bathroom and realized he'd missed his flight and had been drugged and gone back with some women. He'd had money stolen for him. So it's a very difficult thing because

there is empathy for the fact that he was robbed and drugged but then also he was I think on other drugs. So it's like a very complicated kind of thing and also I do feel that if somebody makes a decision to, like, I think there was a choice. Like, I could tell that there was a choice that he made that went against the agreements in our relationship. Yes. That he had made a choice and then bad things had happened that he didn't deserve, but he had made a choice and he had gone back on our relationship. Are these women sex workers? I would say so. Yes, okay. I would say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because I've heard of sometimes sex workers drugging men and stealing from them. Yeah. But he's made a choice, not maybe not sober, but he's made

a choice to initiate contact with the with the sex workers. Yeah, I'm not sure of everything, but I know that I could just tell that there was a decision that was made and whether it was for whatever and obviously there were things involved, but there was a decision that was made that no matter what happened, it was against the agreement in our relationship, which was that we were monogamous. Like, I'm monogamous. If I'm in a relationship with somebody, there are things that are set out. Yeah. And I just, I was on a bus to Brixton and I just, like had to get off.

I was like, I'm going to be sick. Like I was so like it just, I just couldn't believe it. And I went to Kate Lucas's house. We lived in Brixton and we just watched some episodes of pulling. And then I had to stay on my friend's sofa. And then I was like, where the fuck am I staying on a sofa? This is bullshit. And so I went back and kind of made him leave.

Yeah. And then the thing with him is he's always, like, he is always trying, like, makes these mad, mad choices because of things in his past. And then he got sobering from that moment until this day he's never had a single drink. And so he moved out, he stayed away for three months, started doing all the things. And I made him buy me a bike. And I made him, he hates roller coasters. And I made him go on some roller coasters.

And that was a mistake. I took that a little bit far to be fair. But I was like, I do believe that people can make mistakes in relationships. And it is not uncombackable. Yes. I think it, because he was honest from the most, moment, I felt like there can be a path through. Ultimately, there wasn't because we got divorced. But what's interesting is this will happen before we got married and I still

married him. But, you know, he's making choices and I think that's the thing. If somebody is open and sorry and is willing to work on themselves, then it is forgivable. Because there's definitely been moments like I was completely faithful, the whole marriage, the whole relationship. But there were definitely moments when, you know, you were tempted by somebody or there were things and you could see how it could happen that you just, a thing happens. But then I just think, I think cheating and not telling somebody, I think that you should go to jail. I think it's so rude. It's so rude because you are putting someone at risk of SDDs and the humiliation of it. Like, I just really hate it. Like, I think if you're going to do that, you have to then tell the person

or end it. So that's what happened to me. So one of my exes cheated but didn't tell me. And then I discovered some stuff because I'd lent them a laptop and they were still logged in. And for weeks, maybe months, I didn't know how to probably, what I wanted to say is, are you cheating on me? You know, when you get like a, I don't know, a vibe, like, he was very, very, like, cautious of his phone. You know, like, if you ordering, like, takeout and someone goes like, oh, here's my phone, you add what you want. It was never, it was never that. It was always like, just tell me what you want. And I'll, and I was just a bit like, there was just a few things. I don't know that in my gut, I was like, ha.

Big gut noise. What's going on? And the way I was communicating this to him, which isn't very clear, but it was the best I could do at the time, was I kept into him, are you being kind to me? And he was like, yeah?

What did you mean? And I was like, I don't know. Are you being kind to me like when I'm not here? And what I wanted to say clearly was like, are you cheating on me? His response didn't even seem very kind either. No. And he was almost like, yeah,

like a bit sort of pissed off that I was asking, which made me go like, oh, he's probably fine. Like I'm probably, and then you get into your own head being like, well, I'm paranoid and I'm insecure. And I know I've got like low self esteem and had lower self esteem then. And so I was like, oh, it's probably, it is in my head. And I'm like making this relationship worse by like asking and just, I was just like, oh, just get over it. And then let him a laptop.

And I was at his flat and he was out for the day. And I opened that laptop. Instagram was open. I shouldn't have looked, but I did. I had a look because I felt like. something was going on. And really, in my heart of hearts, I was hoping I'd have a quick breeze down,

just a few messages, see nothing and be like, yeah, I'm an idiot. But I opened it and there were multiple, multiple messages from multiple to multiple women. The sad thing is the women were like, no interesting. Or like, really like, he was putting feelers out to like, I don't know,

10 different women trying to like, take them for doing. and sort of messages that like, don't cross the line, saying like, hey, what you doing? And she said something like, like something really unflirty, like, oh, I'm just having my dinner. And he's like, oh, I was hoping you'd be saying you're laying on your bed thinking of me and stuff like that. And I was like, oh, what is this? And then she'd just be like, yeah, then I'm going to like go for a walk with my dad. Like, she like, and she could float, like, whatever, whatever.

but there was just many messages where it's like, hey, when will I see it? Let's go for dinner and all this. To, like, attractive single women who he wasn't friends with. And also some people that he only knew via Instagram. So not even people who'd met in real life. And I was like, okay.

And I shut the laptop and I was like, oh, no. Because I was so happy in the... Apart from, like, the few weeks where I'd felt something was going on, I was, like, so in love and, like, absolutely thought, like, oh, we're going to get married. Like I love this guy so much. I can't believe I'm with him. I fancied him so much.

I was so funny. I was like so proud to be with him. And I was like, I'd done so much like crazy stuff, which in retrospect, I was like, okay, let me have some boundaries. But I was like, yes, I'll move. I'll do this. I'll do this for you. Made a real effort to like get to know his friends and really was like, this is it.

And then I found this and I was like, it sort of shattered things because I was like, oh, we're not in the same relationship. Like, and then I felt so stupid. and obviously we know from the podcast. I have a real pattern of like just projecting what I want anywhere. But we were like living together and we like we'd been going out for maybe like, I don't know, a year. Like it was. It's rude.

They should go to jail. They should go to jail. Thank you. So then I was like, waiting for him to come home and I was like, I'm going to have to talk to him about this. And so I was like, let's meet in this. And also I wanted to do it in public. I don't know why. Not in public, but just, I don't know, because I knew I was going to confront him.

For some reason, I felt like. it would be more, it would go more calmly if we were in like a pub or a restaurant or something. Because at the time, I didn't think we were definitely going to break up. I was just like, I need to talk to him about this. So we, instead of him coming to the flat, we met at this pub around the corner. And I was like, had so much adrenaline. I was like sort of like shaky and like, oh my God. There was a woman who worked behind the bar and I must have gone in about half an hour early and she could see that I was like having a terrible day. And she was like, Do you know when like women just like look out for each other?

And she kept coming over in the UK and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So just let me know if you need anything. You're just in a different mode when these things happen. Like you're like, life is just like, you can't stop crying. You're just like existing but like the world is different. It's so weird. You're in like crisis mode. Yeah.

And he came in and he's like, you're all right. And I was like, no. I said I've seen all the messages. He's like, what messages? And I was like, I shouldn't have. I've looked on your Instagram. I've seen these messages. And it's really upset me.

Like I was like, I'm so upset by this. He never sort of denied, well, he couldn't really deny anything. But he just kind of went quite quiet. And then I was just like, I think I said like, obviously like it's done. In my head, I don't think I truly believed that. But I said to him like, obviously it's done. So if there's anything else you need to tell me, just tell me because like you can't ruin it anymore. And you might as well be open.

And then he was like, oh yeah, I slept with somebody else. And I was like, oh, my God. And then I was like, which one was it? And it was someone that wasn't even on the messages because he deleted their messages. So then I was like, okay, so I don't even know the extent if you are deleting the really incriminating stuff. Interesting, you thought those ones were fine.

Yeah. Interestingly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I could leave these up, yeah. Yeah. I was like, okay, I'm going to be sick. And then I found out when it wasn't, it was like months before. And she'd been round out the flat.

Where you lived? Yeah. And then like all these like things started to make sense. And I was like, I was so upset and I just felt so sick. But then he was also really upset. I mean, this is classic, isn't it? Oh, no, Amy, come on. He was upset.

Please. But like, it's so crazy, isn't it? Where there's still this, like, instinct, this, like, almost primal instinct to, like, care. I don't know, because you still, it's such a strange. knotty feeling because it is this person like you you love and then seeing them upset even though what they've done is like unforgivable you don't want them to like not saying that this was ever on the cards or anything but you never want anyone to sort of do something destructive or you know that's how they fucking get you though that's how they get you like I've been got by this so many

times because of the fear of them because they've done something so bad and then they're they're suggesting that they might do something to them. themselves and then you're like, why? Where is my space in this? I don't understand. And I think sometimes people are very desperate and sometimes it's a manipulative tool and I don't know which is which but. And you can never tell in the moment. So that's why it's very difficult. So I remember and in your case it's manipulative. Yes. Okay. Yes. I think I'm learning this now. But like I remember being like absolutely shattered but then also calling his best friend to be like you need to come and check on him. I'm not and I wouldn't leave because I was like I need to find that. I need to find

somewhere else to stay, but I wouldn't leave his flat until I knew someone was going to be looking after him. Who's looking after you? No, I was looking after me. And then when she got there, I was like, he's cheated on me. Did you know this? And she was like, no, I didn't. I'm so sorry.

And I was like, that's all right. But I was like, you need to be here because he's like, I don't know. He's in a state. And I sort of that. Oh, no, that he feels bad about all the things he did. And he tried so hard to cheat as well. He didn't just cheat once in it happened. He kept trying so hard.

Is it ham? I didn't talk to him for two weeks. And I also, and this is a very unhealthy thing to say, but I also didn't eat for two weeks. Yeah. And it wasn't in like any kind of like... I just can't. I literally, like I couldn't.

And I was being sick. I couldn't watch any... I was just laid in a bed watching stuff on my... laptop, but I couldn't stand anything that had anything to do with couples or a love story or romance because everything just made me think of that. And I can't remember what I found to watch, but there was, there was like one program. Maybe it was something like, um, like one foot in the grave or something. Like there was something where it's like, it's like, it's like, it's the only thing I could manage to watch. And I just laid in my bed, just watching an episode,

and after episode of Victor Meldrew. Just been like, this is all, this is all I can take right now. And then we met up, we chatted, long and so short, I forgave him and we thought we could make it work. But I don't think I was strong enough to do that. And actually, like, when I went back to the flat, I couldn't go in. It's so stupid. Like, I couldn't go upstairs into his bedroom. And I was like, you have to get all new bedding. And he was like, what do you mean?

He was like, I'll change the, like, I've changed the sheets. And I was like, no, you have to throw your pillows and do it away. and you have to like cleanse the space at least. And then for ages like I'd just sleep on the surfer downstairs, he'd be upstairs in bed

and I'd just be on his sofa which was not long so I'd be like curled up on this sofa like a dog bed being like well this isn't great is it and then I'd go upstairs and I'd like sit on his bed but I'd just like

oh I just couldn't every time as I was just thinking about it did he get new sheets and pillows? Yeah but it took him a little while oh I think I got in them for fuck sake. I can't.

This is... But he did throw away his old stuff. Oh, so he went down the stairs with the pillows. With the heavy pillows. He walked down the stairs carrying the pillows. That's hard sometimes because they're quite big. You got to get your arms around. Yeah.

Hard. But I don't think... We never recovered after that. Like, we tried and tried. But I... To be fair to him, very much like your ex, he like went so... but this was like, again, this is where it's confusing

because empathy does come in and you're like, he was in a bad place and he was drinking and he's open about his struggles with mental health and stuff. And so you do take all that into consideration. And that's why I really thought that we could move past it and, you know, tried for years, but it just never... For years. Yeah.

Did he take ownership of it? Like, could you bring it up and he would be like, oh, God, yeah, I'm so sorry that that happened. Or would he be like, oh, but you know, like it was because of this or like... He was, do you know what? He was like pretty, this is mad and not my best self. But I remember being like, we can't move on until I,

this is maybe like a month after I found out. I was like, I can't move on until I ask you some questions. And I was like, and these questions are going to make me feel sick. And it's going to be horrible. But I was like, I'm going to, I said, I'm going to write them down because I probably can't say them out loud or I'll bottle it. I'm going to write them down. I'm going to send you them.

You can either write them back to me, the answers or we can talk about it. But I was like, until I know these very specific questions, I sort of can't move on. And he was pretty good with stuff like that. Like he was open and he was honest. And he was like up for trying things that would help us. But then there were other things like he hadn't blocked her on his Instagram.

So when I saw that like she was liking his purse and stuff, I was like, I can't, we can't carry on if this is still, if she's still in your life at all, even if it's, And it sounds like I'm an adult, but it's just like, it's more the sentiment of like, you have to. And he's like, oh, but I don't want to like piss her off or something like that. And it was like, yeah, but the thing is you have to, to protect our relationship. You have to have this gesture of like cutting that off.

Yeah. Like, of cutting it off. And then, and he said that he'd done it. And then, I don't know, like, and then maybe like a year later or something, his phone rang really late at night and we sat on the sofa. and he answered it. And it wasn't a number that he had saved. And he answered it.

And then I could hear a woman's voice. And he went white as a sheet and like hung up. And I was like, was it her? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, okay. Is it okay if I block that number? And he was like, yeah, yeah. So I blocked the number on his phone.

And I also, again, this is wild behavior. I sent her a message. To be fair, a nice message. But it was just like, look, I don't know you. Maybe you're a great person. I don't know. But we're in a relationship and you need to not contact him anymore.

I don't know if she ever did because then I blocked her as well. And it's not her I'm angry with. Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. I like, God, it's all so stressful. It just makes you feel sick. Yeah.

Because the thing is, like I think in life in a long time relationship, like things are going to come up. Like things like I definitely did have a sense of like, well, now he's. done that. Like I have a free pass at some point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't imagine that, you know, like, things might come up. You know, I have understanding for that. It's just, it's just how you, how you deal with it and how you understand how things happen because of someone's insecurities or this, but. But I do think, like, so when you said that in your situation, you were told straight away, I think that would have made all of the difference

because it's their months or weeks or days or hours or whatever where they're carrying on as normal and saying I love you. The trust is just gone. And you feel, I mean, this word is overused, but you kind of do feel gasek because you're not the reality, you're not in reality. A different reality has been created for you, that you're living in and you feel happy and comfortable in.

And then when this rug is pulled, then you're like, hang on. If you can lay next to me, if you can tell me you love me, with no flicker of guilt or like something weighing on your mind, you just can't ever really relax ever again because you don't know what's true, you don't know what's real. We talked to all about this that like if we were to carry on and this sounds, I think, more toxic than it was,

we were kind of led by him, was like, you can't just bring this up all of the time. Like it has to, we have to like draw a line under it. it and move on. Yeah, can we stop going on about it? Please, God. I took my pillows downstairs. What else do you want, Amy?

Come on. But I think he had a point because it's, if I did bring it up every time I thought about it, it's the only thing we'd ever talk about forever. I agree. But I think there is something that, like, when you bring it up and then that person takes accountability and says, yeah, I fucked up.

I'm so sorry. That then each time it's brought up kind of lessons. Yes. But if the person is defensive, if the person is like trying to explain their behavior or trying to do this, then it's like,

it just, you never quite get the closure that you need because you need them just to say, it was one of the stupidest things I've ever done in my life. I'm so sorry and to have that kind of openness. Yes. And then it's, yeah, the lying is that's a really hard thing. That's the worst thing. I think lying is so bad and everyone thinks lying is fine

and I really hate lying. Yeah, I fully agree. I think like it's almost, like the physical thing, I could get over. It's the emotional side of it and the lying. Like the continuous messaging and being in contact with them or whatever. And with these other messages, it's almost like they hurt as much. Like, I fuck, right, fine.

I don't love that at all. I hate it. But I could probably get over that. If it was like, oh, I was really drunk this one night. I've fucked up. like case someone in a bar. I'd hate it. But it's the idea of when you're sober,

messaging, putting feelers out, messaging, you're doing all of this. It's the planning and it's the constant. You've made so many decisions over such a long period of time in all different states of mind. From morning to night, sober to drunk, you're constantly choosing to betray me. And that's too sad to think about.

Whereas like a feeling. physical fuck, you're like, okay, that was maybe like, what, half an hour and you've, I don't know, something, I still think it's unforgivable. But like the thing that stays with me, the thing that gives me like probably ongoing trust issues, I imagine in the next relationship or whatever, is that like the lying and not being able to trust someone. I just couldn't, I just couldn't tell someone that I loved them if I'd slept to someone that morning who, do you know what I mean? I just, I can't get my head around that. I think I would physically struggle to be in the room with them. I'd feel so guilty and so ashamed and I'd need to be honest immediately. But to be like, yeah, should we go see your parents? Like, what are you doing? How can you do it? Some people are like serial cheaters and can get with multiple people

and just have no remorse for it. And I think it's baffling. And they should be put in jail. And they should be put in jail. And then they'd have a great time. All of them in jail, just cheating on everyone together. Fuck's sake. Yeah, I think it's like there's just when you build something together,

like you build it together. And if it's, if one side of it is tarnished, then it's like it's not, it's not what you believe that it is. Is this flirting? This is an external thing that shouldn't be a factor, but it is humiliating. Yeah. There's a real like humiliation of it. And that's why I was very open about it because I didn't want it to be.

a thing that was like kind of under the surface, murky. It was like, it just felt it was like, get it out there and this has happened. But then I don't know if that was really like completely fair on it. But then we both ended up talking about it in shows. So we go like very quickly. I spoke about it way too quickly. Like before I'd processed it. Like I still was like very like completely thrown by it and was not like in a good place.

And I just spoke about it way too quickly. But that's probably how we processed it. Yeah. See, I didn't tell anyone for a real long time because I was so embarrassed. It's the embarrassment. I was embarrassed. Because as well, I'd been going around telling everyone how happy I was and how much I loved him and how I was the best boyfriend in the world.

And then you can't the next day be like, oh, everything I said was mental. Like, he doesn't, I think he hates me and he's done this awful thing. But I'm still going to stay with him. I was just so, I would think maybe I would have told people if we'd have broken up. I think telling people is so important. Yeah, I really do. I wish I had. And that must have been so much harder

for you just to be on your own with it. Yeah. And also like I didn't want him to, again, this is this caring thing, this duality. I didn't want him to like lose his friends or anyone to think bad of him. So I was like not telling people for myself because I was embarrassed of the situation.

And also kind of, I guess, with the low self-esteem thing, you kind of, in my head I was a bit like, well, yeah, like obviously he's going to tune on me because like he's so fit and like great. And then, yeah, like, I guess on some level, I think I thought it made a bit of sense. So I just was like, kept, just, so I told, I told my friend Chris and my friend Sam.

Because they didn't live in the same city as us. They couldn't get him. They couldn't get him. The only thing that happened is my friend Sam just messaged him on Instagram and just put idiot. And that was it. And that was too much like my ex was like, I can't have your friends having a guy like me. Oh no, poor.

I mean, he's been through so much. Amy, he carried some pillows. And he got called an idiot. I mean, an idiot. Like that's such a, I mean, of all the words, that's a really cutting one. That's a really cutting word. Fuck, say.

Yeah, but maybe now I wish I would have been open about it. And I think it would have been, it would have helped me process it because I guess I didn't process it. Like it happened. I felt sad. It kind of immediately was... Because it's a shameful thing and I guess I blamed myself

and was worried about him. And then you forget to go, oh yeah, I'm a person too and probably need some care and time and help. But then I eventually, when I started therapy, this is something that we talked about and I processed it then.

So I don't think I processed it for like a long time and was kind of living in denial like, oh yeah, like he did that, but it won't do it again. And I don't think he did. do it again. I mean, I don't know for sure, obviously, but I honestly don't think he did do again and I think he really did try in like certain ways. He really tried. He really put an effort in. But it just, it was fucked beyond repairing.

Another one with a fish. What do you think about going through phone? Well, it's tough because I, in an ideal world, you wouldn't need to. That's it. Like, I think it's the thing that it's like, no, that's like such a big no-no. But then sometimes you're got and if somebody is lying to you and you know that they're lying to you like it's so difficult because yeah that someone's private space but they're like like it's so that's the only time that it's like yeah so the thing because phones are so powerful in relationships now because you can have a whole affair on your phone it's not like you have to look for lipstick on his collar like in the 50s it's like oh he can be like cheating on you sat next

to you, like, it's crazy. And yeah, like, looking through phones is tough, but I think when someone's really guarding their phone, it's a really, it's a huge red flag. And when, oh, my God, who was I? I can't remember who was with. Maybe it was just like, Chris or I don't, I was with a friend and it was literally this, this thing of like, oh, have a look at my phone at this post or this video. And, like, he gave me his phone. And I was like, oh, no, sorry. What, like, I was trying to give it back to him to be like, oh, or like, I pressed something. And I was like, I remember like flinch and be like, oh my God, get it off. I just. I don't know what I press.

And I'm like, what are you doing? It's fine. It's just my phone. And I was like, oh yeah, you're a lot. Like, it's a normal thing to be able to touch a friend's phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think if someone's guarding it loads, maybe privacy is important, but I think there's signs when they're doing something they shouldn't.

It's so interesting talking about it because it's like that feeling is so bad and it happens. It's like another level. But sometimes when you cheat, you do understand it because it's like, my God, you feel alive. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it is like what, like, I had a joke about it because you're like, it is thrilling. You know what I mean? Like, you're doing something you're really not supposed to do. But yeah, I think you just have to be prepared for the repercussions.

Yes. Also, if I've ever been tempted, which I can't even think I must have been, I always think, like, the idea of like hooking up with someone is so hot and sexy and thrilling. And you're like, wow, oh my God, I'd love to tear their clothes off. And I think you can feel like that about a person when you're in a long-term relationship because in a long-term relationship there's all this like drudgery and paying bills and like you haven't taken the bin out and all of this. But this shiny new thing, you just see them as like fresh and exciting. But then if you if you're fancying someone and you're close to cheating,

I think if you picture them in 10 years in this long-term relationship. Yeah, it's going to be exactly the same thing. It will be exactly the same. Like, you'll be so much worse. And I think it just really puts you off. Yeah. So just think of them. Yeah, just dampen that fire.

Yeah, just really think of them. We've been like, okay, please can you do the bins? I've watched you three times. Let me just get. We're like, for fuck, heck, I'll do it a minute. Okay, well, we've really overshared again. Oh, God. Oh, God.

Thanks for listening, everybody. And I hope that you're all okay. And for anyone that's been cheated on, I hope they may be. Make it illegal. Yes. Goodbye. See you in jail. Hello, I'm Lucy Beaumont. And I'm Sam Campbell, as a matter of fact. Perfect Brains is one of the most enchanting podcasts.

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