Single Ladies In Your Area - Going from the apps to dates, with Vogue dating columnist Annie Lord

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

This week Harriet and Amy are joined by author and Vogue dating columnist, Annie Lord, to discuss how to go from the apps to first dates. How do you bring your full self to a first date? Are butterflies good or bad? And how do you make an exit if you’re just not feeling it?Annie's book Notes on Heartbreak is available to buy in paperback, ebook and audiobook now.Want to share your dating tips or horror stories, or have a question for the experts? Email in at [e-mail] Single Ladies In Your Area on Instagram @singleladiespod and Twitter @singleladiespodAnd follow Annie on Instagram @annielord8 and Twitter @annielord8Recorded and edited by Aniya Das for Plosive.Photos by Matt Crockett and Linda Blacker.Design by Welcome Studio. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Amy Gledhill. And I'm Harriet Kemsley. We're both single and in our 30s. And we've found ourselves back on the dating scene. And the landscape has changed. Everyone has settled down. But we're back out there. And we're desperately trying to figure out what the hell we should be doing.

So we're going to speak to experts, chat about dates we've been on. If we manage to get any. And share your tips and horror stories. So we all feel less alone we might even get our exes on yeah we'll see about that this is single ladies in your area this week we will be talking about going from the dating apps to the dates it feels like a big transition. It is a big transition. Yeah, because it's real life.

It feels like pretend life for me. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I've set up my dating profile and we are going to be talking to the fantastic Annie Lord. She writes a column for Vogue on dating. Very stylish. Very stylish. And she's written an amazing book that I love

called Notes on Heartbreak, which is about dating and um heartbreak as I'm announcing the title yeah yeah and she's going to give us tips on the apps on first dates and many other things Harriet here we are I've got updates for you I hope you've got updates for me oh i've got updates okay okay the the headlines are i've i've signed up to all the apps now i did all my stupid prompt questions one of them i think is the worst answer of all time and i did run it by a friend who who did beg me not to put it,

but I've put it for now. Okay, great. Yeah. Do you want to know what it is? Yep. So one of the... It's so bad. What do you call it?

The prompts? Is it about a sandwich? No. One of them, yes, is about a sandwich. One about a sandwich is fine. But I hated your advice. Just one about a sandwich. One said, dating me would be like...

Sandwich. Sandwich. Sandwich. I put, having a Labrador with tits. Yeah, yeah, that's lovely. If you like horror, if you want something absolute, what an image. What a horrible image.

Fluffy tits. I think fluffy tits is a lovely image. What a horrible image. Fluffy tits. I think fluffy tits is a lovely image. Look, I think I did hear a thing about how you should streamline your profiles. You're just putting things that will attract only people that are interested in you specifically. And I think you will achieve that. Like Labrador? I think you will cut out all the riffraff and only people that like, yeah, Labrador's fluffy tits.

Maybe some people into obesity. Oh, God. That kind of stuff, yeah. I just want people that would find that funny. Yeah, yeah. Because boring people are going to be like, ugh. Yeah. I mean, you did say ugh, and you're not boring.

You're the opposite of boring. Thank you for saying I'm not boring. It just, it brings an image into your mind that's so intense. It's really intense, isn't it? It's really an intense image. Dragging across the floor

as it's galloping towards you. Maybe your last picture, could we Photoshop that and put that into your last picture on your profile? I love that. I think it's good that you're being yourself.

Yeah. I think that's applauded. Yeah, dating me is like having a Labrador with tits. Fine. That's number three. It is fun.

It's fun. Who doesn't want a Labrador, likeits fine that's number three it is fun it's fun who doesn't want a lab like lab no i'm sorry it is upsetting as well i tried to go with it but then i did who doesn't want a labrador with oh no they do have tits yeah okay that one i will reconsider but for now it's up so i took advice from you you know you had that brilliant list oh oh you weren't saying brilliant at the beginning, but it seems like you've come back to the list as you spent this time trying to come up with your prompts. Very interesting.

Yeah, they're actually impossible. And it's like, you know what? Harriet nailed that. I take everything back. A random list of things. So I've done a list. My simple pleasures. And it's not funny.

It's just a list. Baths. Crisp butties. Looking at the sea. The basketball game at the amusements re-watching comedy shows pub chats new socks

live music a little bit of theatre singing real loud on solo drives new stationery art I love that do you?

I've fallen in love with you yeah I think that's absolutely lovely I think that's lovely and then Labrador with tits yeah and then you know you're like if you can get past

Labrador with tits then you you have a lovely lovely and then labrador with tits yeah and then you know you're like if you can get past labrador with tits you have a lovely time and then the only other one i'd fall for you if we can have a straight face chat about absolute nonsense you're kind to service staff and you never say the words this should be a podcast that's great that's funny and yeah that's funny and nice yeah so i'm trying to say like you're funny and you're kind yeah and you're not i mean yes we're doing a podcast but you're not a narcissist okay yes women can do podcasts men shouldn't do you need to put a picture with a friend yeah you need a picture with a friend because otherwise yeah it just looks like because at the moment i've just got a picture of a bag of crisps yeah i'll put a picture with a friend because otherwise, yeah, it just looks like. Because at the moment I've just got a picture of a bag of crisps.

Yeah, I'll put a picture of the, I'll change that. And have you started talking to anybody? Yes. Yeah. I've done some chatting. Um, not good. Okay, okay. There's just been like a few little messages and people seem nice generally but then I just sort of instantly get

bored but I'm also too scared to go on a date so I'm in this sort of no man's land where it's like I can't be able to chat to you but I'm also too scared to meet you so what do you do now huh um but there was one guy I was talking to I said to him um where do you live because it said three kilometers away he came back and he said exactly where i live and i went oh do you and he said yeah and i was like and i said oh shut up do you really and he said yeah why and i said because i live there and he's like oh it says you're three kilometers away and i was like yeah it does for me as well he lives around the corner from me and i was like and he was like whereabouts do you live there i was like oh right by this landmark and he's like you're literally like a three minute walk and I was like oh and then he's like should

we meet tonight and I was like no I wasn't mentally prepared for that at all and I went oh no and annoyingly he'd asked me what I was doing that night before we knew we lived really close together and I'd said I'm having a bath and staying in and then he's like oh you've made it clear on your on your profile but that's very important to you Amy number one priority yes so I was like look uh no I can't he's like I thought you're just having a bath I was like yeah I am just gonna have a bath I'm three minutes away we could just go for a drink and I was like no I have a bath. I'm three minutes away. We could just go for a drink. And I was like, no, I can't. And then I just stopped speaking to him. I think it's intense. Like I've had a couple of things where people have asked me,

they're like, oh, I can come to you and have a date. Like where I live in, it's like, I don't want to go on a date. And then I could see my daughter's nursery teacher. Like it's like, I don't like it feels too, you want to go somewhere else. I think you want to, not too far. I mean, I'm tired, you know, but you want to go somewhere else. I think you want it. Yeah. Not too far. I mean, I'm tired. You want to go at least leave the area. Yeah.

And because you could just bump into him. You don't want that every day. Like. Well, exactly. And also then the next day, because I normally walk around, no makeup, haven't brushed my hair. Absolutely awful, awful outfits. And I was leaving and I was just like, oh I'm gonna see him I know I'm gonna see

him when I look like this and he'll be like oh why was I talking to that that witchy woman that old crone with the shopping bag yeah so I've just stopped speaking to him this is great though this is progress and I think that was a bit much you know like it just felt like a bit much but you're gonna find someone that lives at least in the area next door yes an adjacent area and then this is great you know you're putting yourself out there you started it yeah i started it i was like i'm gonna try to do something different and so um i signed up for bumble premium here we go i paid 9.99 for the week and then it was going to show me like who liked me and so i could go through and I will say

like it feels much better to know who likes you because I really like rejecting them when I know they like me and then they go no no no like it feels nice it feels good actually um because I hadn't I hadn't had much luck on Bumble like everyone keeps telling me that Bumble's a good one but then every time I like match with someone I first of all I didn't realize we had to message them first like I think you have to message them, first of all, I didn't realise we had to message them first. Like, I think you have to message them or it disappears. And then I started to do that. But then I was just saying, like, how are you to them all?

And then just no one would reply. And then it would just slowly, like, run out of time. And then they go and you're like, oh. Yes. Well, I, on Bumble, I was going to ask you, actually. I liked somebody that had liked me. It was a match. And I was like, okay, brilliant. liked it was a match and I was like okay brilliant and I was so excited about this guy it was like the first person in all that I was like

I'm really excited about this guy then I was busy didn't and it's ticked off and it's gone so I think you can extend the match but it's gone oh he's just gone he's gone off I think I would like too many and he's tipped off and he was the only one I actually liked. Oh, no. And I can't get him back. We'll find him. Okay. How do we find him?

This is a shout out to an illustrator in the Greater London area who, I don't know why, but I think I've got a thing about boys who look kind and wear sort of like nice jumpers. And he had a nice jumper on. And I was like, what a lovely jumper. I love that so much. It's not asking for too much, I think.

What? I think the bare minimum. He's a man in a jumper. Yeah. Put a nice jumper on. Yeah, I think that's lovely. So who have you been talking to? Well, so I was mainly just like browsing and I feel like I learned some stuff.

Like I've learned a lot about men's jobs and like what jobs there are out there. Like there's loads I didn't even know about. Like shit broker. What was that? Like it's kind of, it's educational, like these apps, you know, I'm just like, oh, I didn't know what job that was. I had the first experience of matching with the same guy. So like we'd already matched on Raya and had a little chat

and then we matched again on Bumble. But then I was like, oh, lol, hello again. And then he didn't reply. It felt really embarrassing. I was like, oh, I had like a little bit of like an in joke and then she was like, absolutely, didn't reply. And that felt bad. Had you been talking on Raya? Yes, we chatted on Raya and then it kind of just didn't reply on that. That felt bad. Had you been talking on Raya?

Yes, we chatted on Raya and then it kind of just didn't have the energy. And then I went to Kent, staying at my family's, and I went on Bumble in Kent. And how do I say this politely? It really goes downhill. Oh, do you say, okay, okay.

And I feel bad because I'd been encouraging single friends outside of London to go on the apps and they'd be like Harriet it's awful and I'd be like guys you just have to do it like you just have to do it you just have to go on the apps and you just have to try it but I think that when you leave the city my god is it bleak really like I think in London there's maybe like it's like the worst like one in a hundred that you're like oh I could see myself going on a date with that yeah one in a thousand like it's like the it's i don't know what i think because so many people have settled down that it's like it's i don't know what it is and i am sorry if you don't

live in a city but and you are a man but it is bad i'm sorry it's bad speak to your friends work on it it's bad out there it's really bad do you think that's because when people are settling down and having families they move more to the suburbs so you're really getting the pool is so much smaller and so I think that might be a tip that like you should just set your thing for London and then just like commute in you know yeah because I think it's difficult or not necessarily London I think that the bigger cities I think it's harder in the smaller areas because also you know everybody like it's really weird yeah of course yeah that's a really I think that's a really the smaller areas because also you know everybody. Like it's really weird. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

I think that's a really good tip. And I also, I got asked on a second date. And so we had our first date in February and then he was away for a bit and then he kept messaging me about like having a second date and I was a bit like, and I just kind of ignored it. And then he kept like messaging on my photos and stuff. And anyway, then he asked me out for a second date which is potentially happening this week but I'm a bit nervous about it I'm a bit

nervous about it but um did you meet on an app we met on an app yeah on hinge on hinge yeah and where did you go on your first date that was what was really nice because he booked so on my last date I'd planned to spend the evening my friend was watching my daughter but like I'd gone into town and come back and I was like I felt sad that I'd wasted that evening when I could have been with her like that whole evening and so I did the opposite which is I planned it in between two shows in London so we had 48 minutes um in between to go in and have this day but he was really sweet and he was really like flexible about it because I was like oh I might have to do this radio show and the thing and then come like after that and but he was really sweet and he was really like flexible about it because I was like oh I might have to do this radio show and then come after that

and he was like cool if it happens it happens and then he booked to go to the Soho Hotel which is like really nice and he probably like booked it

and it was like really like thought out and nice and I really appreciated that and then it was the first time I'd been like oh I could see myself maybe like kissing this person

and so anyway first date February second date July um third date Christmas so tune in everybody it's gonna be a slow a slow ride that's really exciting yeah I'm very excited for your second date I'm very excited for you to go on a date I know I'm gonna I am gonna I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it I think I need a little bit more help yes and I think the person to help is gonna be our guest Annie Lord before we speak to Annie what scares you about transitioning from the apps into real life the real life date I think one of the big things is how they

will look at me when they first see me that moment when you'll see in their eyes if they're like, oh, or oh, you know? I know, yeah. That's horrifying. But everyone must feel that judged. And they must think that about themselves as well. They're thinking about themselves. Like, that's it.

You just always think it's about... You just always think it's about you, Amy. Everyone always thinks it's about you, but it it's about you i mean everyone always thinks it's about you but it's about them as well yeah yeah definitely so i'm scared of that and then i'm scared of sitting down and me knowing instantly i hate this i want to get out i don't know how to get out how long do i have to be here before i can get out can i get out how do I get out and not have to do this again because I know I will end by going this has been great would you like to see me again tomorrow but yes sorry let's talk to Annie we've got an expert on guys Harriet I've put a dog with tits on my profile I'm very excited that we're here with Annie Lord who is um Vogue's dating columnist

and she wrote a book I absolutely loved um it's called Notes on Heartbreak yeah it's really good and it's all about um a breakup you know which we we get Amy we get we get it yeah we've been through it and we are so glad you're here because we are in desperate need of your wisdom. So we're in our 30s and we've not been single in this current landscape. So we're after all the advice that you can offer. Would you, for our listeners, just give us a sort of overview of your relationship to dating? I feel like I'm on the realest cynical.

Okay, great. I've been single for a while and I'm grumpy about it no um I think like when I was first single I was like really threw myself into it and went on like a lot of dates you know when people are like newly single I feel like they have a like slightly terrifying look in their eye like a really frenetic like hello desperation frenetic like hello desperation yeah I think I was very comfortable putting myself out there and I think I was kind of trying to fill the gap where my ex was a bit yeah and then whatever people would say to me on a date like I would believe what they said yeah they're like I've

never felt we I feel like we're really getting on like I would like to see you again we're really connecting I'm like that means we're really connecting they want to see me and is that not and now I'm getting the truth don't believe them genuinely about it yet we have our friends at all but I think they do mean it in the moment but I think they have no object permanence so they they they see you and they feel that but then they go away and they forget that they go back on the apps and they feel it again yeah they see more so um I've got a connection with everyone I'm incredible yeah even if you meet someone now in person I feel like they like because before I think it's like if you meet someone on an app that they're really not in your world so they don't have many loyalties to you and

they can really disappear without it meaning much and so that was annoying but then I think that's kind of fed into like everything where anyone you meet is just a bit disposable you have to build this whole connection with somebody in it you have to it takes a lot of energy to kind of bring them into your world and get into their world and it's kind of exhausting you kind of just want to date somebody that already knows it all like to go through that process so many times like Jesus Christ we're busy ladies you know we've got stuff to do it's so true and I feel like the last like person I was dating he was like oh you're really hard to read you're really mysterious like you I can't really work you out which I was like oh my god I'm so mysterious yeah I love that no one

has ever said that about me ever like we can tell I think it was just that like around men I'm like not like being my full self whatever but I was just like oh my god like it's been three dates and you're expecting me to like show everything like come on yeah you have to show up being your full self and that's such a hard thing in life when you don't and you also are so nervous like you feel like really sick but you have to be your complete self yeah so I I've not gone on a date yet I have in my life just to put that out there but I haven't been on my first post-breakup date yet. And I'm kind of wondering, to what extent is it just best to be your shit self and then they can see it quicker and go,

oh, no, not that. And you go, oh, fine. Because I wonder if part of my problem is I try so hard to be exactly what I think they want and then I get exhausted and then about about three weeks in I'm like I can't keep this up I'm shit I'm sorry surprise I got you yes do either of you have any sort of thoughts on that I was talking about this with my friend the other day because

I was saying I don't know how to not like put on a personality of what I think they'd want but she was like you are everyone is kind of a different person with different people and that is true as well and I just thought you know if I met someone I really got on with maybe I naturally would they would pull out myself out myself yes so yeah you talk about this in your book about how it's really hard not to mold into what somebody else wants you to be. But then I've done that before. And actually people prefer it if you're yourself. Like nobody wants to be with somebody that's like, I like that too.

Yes, I agree. Like that actually gets a bit boring after a while. I'd actually love that. Yeah, I think I'd love that. So you're actually right. Yeah, I was just thinking about it. I was like, yeah. I don't want to do that. But if a guy was like, yeah, definitely. I think everything'd love that. No, you're actually right. Yeah, I was just thinking about it. I was like, yeah. I don't want to do that.

But if a guy was like, yeah, definitely. I think everything you're doing is great. I'm like, well, stick around, buddy. Yeah, but I'm saying they don't mould to us. No, that's true. That we're moulding to them. Like, no one's moulding to us. No one's moulding to us.

Yeah, okay, fine. The friends I've got that I notice do the best with dating and like get a lot of attention stuff are people I think that seem so warm and open to love and experiences and stuff and are just really themselves yeah but it's also like the more you date the less easy that becomes to be so warm and open to like give yourself you've been burned over and over again to keep being warm and open is really difficult. Yeah. And not to become cynical, as you're saying.

Yeah. We just got to get fingered by pancake day. I've noticed a lot recently, which I know is not a unique thing, but just how much I like people that don't like me. Yeah, 100%. I think because my ex was very flighty and hot and cold and I really enjoyed like constantly like my self-esteem was built off persuading him back to liking me and I just think if someone like just liked me unconditionally I don't know if I'd like that I'd be suspicious of him in that sort of hot and cold relationship even though it's fully toxic

it's so exciting yeah because you're like what am I getting today okay okay it's Mr Moody okay let me do everything I can let me do my little dance for you oh I won I did it I got him back but why do you think we feel like we need to work like that it must be because we feel like we're not good enough to just have like you would be suspicious if someone was like oh yeah I just love you for everything that you are I'd be like okay no way he's a serial killer red flag red flag red flag but that's probably someone who's done a lot of work on themselves and is ideal for me yeah so I don't know how to correct that I actually read

oh my friend sent me a TikTok that's such a thing isn't it being like I read yeah I read the book it's called TikTok yeah I've read about my last column because it was, I'm going to paraphrase it so badly, but it was saying in capitalism, we're like taught to value things that we work hard for and also things that are scarce. So if someone's, yeah, if we're working hard for someone and if their attention is scarce, we're like, oh my God, they must be amazing. Wow, that makes so much sense. It does. What do you think about the thing people are saying about butterflies at the moment? Like that can be a bit of a red flag,

that it can actually be like anxiety and that maybe when you see somebody and you have that reaction, it's that thing of you feel like anxious and then that anxiousness continues and actually you should just feel calm around somebody if they're right for you. that's so interesting at first I was like forgot what butterflies were you know like the sensation yeah yeah I've just had wasps in the last couple years yeah

big spiders in my tummy this is good that that makes a lot of sense I think yeah because if it's like a trigger for you, then yeah. Because you meet somebody and then you're like, oh, I recognise this pattern. I do this dance. I feel on edge. Like I wait for them to message me and I don't know if this person likes me. And so those butterflies are actually not a healthy sign.

And then I've heard other people say, it's just your body reacting. Start looking into it. If you feel calm and happy around them then that's a good sign but it it's just not natural because you think oh you should be you know like wondering if they're gonna message or all this stuff but actually like if they make your life better and you feel calmer that's the better thing but it goes against every way that I behave. Right, yeah.

So what do we do? Yeah, what do we do, Annie? Annie, please. You're younger than us, right? We've got you. I don't know. Read Manifestations into the Mirror or something. I'm not sure.

Okay, okay. We need the Manifestations. Okay. Oh, that's good. So say there's a trait that you look for and I know it does sound like you've gone off the apps fine but when you're on the apps or if you still are how do you how can you what's a good way to read someone's profile to actually like pick up to get a sense of them are there any sort of things that you see in a profile where you're like no way not for me or do

you see do you look for red flags or green flags I do think it's quite mad like how much you can read of who a person is just by I don't know like you know when you go in a room after that you tell you to get on with quite quickly it's really weird yeah you can just feel that energy I feel like you can get quite a lot just from looking at pictures of people which is weird but then you can't really tell if you've got chemistry I think and also there's something so hard about forcing yourself like if you're going on a date with someone you've already met you're excited because you know what's coming and you know them and it's so hard isn't it to make yourself excited to go on a date where

you have no idea who they are and quite often you can turn up and be like like immediately that's it I think you just have to get in and smell them and then get out like it's literally just whether you like their smell and you are attracted to each other like they need to set that up so you can just go and sniff like a load of just men in a line and then be like oh you obviously it's you so true um so are you are you avoiding the apps these days or how are you meeting people? I am due to like go back on them sort of thing. I think I have like breaks to just, yeah. I currently have no romantic leads, so it's time to go back.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You follow the leads and then the leads dry up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very business. Yeah, I like that. Some of my friends literally will message a bunch of guys for a while and then schedule like all the dates in a really mechanical way wow yeah and then get through those and then that's amazing yeah you

just have to do it a lot and just see it you can't take it personally you just have to see it as just like washing your sheets it's like just something you have to do over and over again to try and um have a nice bed. Well, let's go with that exactly. It's a match. How long do you think you should talk to someone on an app before going on a date? I think super quick.

Oh, really? Yeah. My friend used to always say 48 hours. Oh, wow. But I think that is a bit, not necessarily, but just I think you can get quite a sense quickly if they're just talking to talk. Yeah.

If you're on a messaging convo where you're both replying in tandem, then I think 48 hours. But if it's like one or two replies a day. Yeah. You do like maybe a week. Would you ask them out or do you wait for them to ask you? Like either, to be honest. I feel like it doesn't feel like rejection that bad

because you can just make up reasons why. And they don't actually know you, so it's quite chill to just ask. Oh, that's good. I haven't even thought about that. You can just be like, well, it doesn't matter, you don't know me. I have felt that so much more with the apps that it's not personal at all because I'm like oh they could have met someone in this time that they like or they don't know me at all yeah that's also it's so funny isn't it such a blessing and a curse because that the fact that it isn't personal I feel it is what makes everything so disposable like I feel like when I was a teenager if I'd have heard about apps I'd be like cool

I'll there'll be so many I'll have so many options and like but it just doesn't really work out that way because just nothing everything's just like fair what do you think should be your first date that was a good first I just like chatting so probably just the pub yeah but one of my friends who is sober ish as she says she's really good because she'll go for a date and she doesn't drink I feel like I would go on a lot more if I did that because yeah you know where you're like you have so many friends you want to see that you haven't seen enough of and then it's like you're meant to take one day out of the week like realistically I can see two people during the week otherwise I'm yeah feeling a bit burnt out. But if one of those days is a day

and then it's not a good day and you've drank a lot, you're just like, I've wasted that. I've wasted that energy. Could have had such a nice time with someone. Could have actually enjoyed myself. Are you good at getting in and out?

I'm so bad. I'm such a people pleaser. Yeah, I can't do that. Because I haven't been on a date where I've wanted to like jet in a while. I think now I could probably, but I still think I'd stay for like two drinks. Okay.

Something like that. That's what I think. If they get you a drink and then you get them your obligatory kind of drink back and then you say, okay, well, have a nice day. And then you just leave. And that's that. Yeah.

Oh, this sounds terrifying. What I'm scared of for my first day is turning up and instantly going oh I hate him but just from sight just going oh no but then being like oh well I guess we're gonna move in together because I'm on a date what's how do you navigate that? I've had that where I've come up with, so I sit around the station, I'm like, oh, don't fancy him, cool. And then I did stay till like 12. It's so stupid. But that was quite a few years ago now.

One of my friends will say, oh, yeah, let's go for a drink. I'm only around until nine. So that then she can stay if she's enjoying it. But she has already said, which is yeah um or like some of my friends have managed to break the pattern and just be like hey sorry I'm not really feeling this they now are like can just do that straight away they just see them no no but I know she'll get like a bowl of like a soda water and then stay for a bit and then be like oh I'm really sorry like I'm not

really feeling this oh I don't think I could ever do it. It's good. That is good. Once she's done it, she can do it. But then I was like, if someone did that to me, like, just lie. I'd so much rather someone lied to me. Yeah, has that ever, I never even considered it would happen to you. But has that ever happened to you? Has someone gone like, I'm out.

Or they've done me. Oh, my friend's calling. I've got to go. And you'd be like, oh, my God. It's so weird. All these guys just have diarrhea as soon as they see me. They you'd be like oh my god it's so weird all these guys just have diarrhea as soon as they see me they just run off to the toilet it's so weird no no no god no so if you're not meeting on the apps where are you meeting them i did go through quite a phase of being quite good on nights out of getting with people but it's difficult isn't

it because like when you're out you have to it's hard to strike the balance isn't it between becoming obsessed like the whole night out you're just looking at men and then you're not having fun and then if you don't manage to get with anyone you feel shit or just having fun with your friends and being really close it's tricky like as you're a little bit older maybe like less of your friends want to go clubbing or out dancing. Or out at all. Or out of the house, in general. Or put a bra on. Yeah.

So you've got to try and find your single friends, I guess. Yeah. So that's the thing that I think people our age will struggle with. It's like many, many people are married now and fully past the idea of like, oh my God, let's definitely go out for a dance. They're like, I can't. Yeah, we need everyone to start groups in their area, I guess. Yes. The single ladies.

The single ladies in their area. I'm quite lucky in that way. Like most of my friends are single. Great. In my like group chat group, there's five of us and one of them's in a relationship. Get her out. Yeah. group chat group there's five of us and one of them's in a relationship get her out and also it's quite nice because like before like two of in relationships but even then understood

how difficult it was because they had been single for a long time become really cynical and they just get it like you know sometimes when you talk to your friends in relationships and like I don't get it like you're so great like what's what's wrong what's gone on and it's really annoying because I think they think it's odd when like you might date someone then you tell them about it and then just work out and they're like what's happening and then they don't see that's just like a normal right part of it yes yeah like there's nothing wrong with you yeah why aren't you married already yeah it's not me I'm not the problem i love how we're saying this we're literally just talking about how we fancy people that don't fancy

i'm not the problem it's these hot and cold men that i keep choosing for myself roses are red violets are blue we've matched on an app what you up to what advice if you from all your columns and everything and all your wisdom and what everything you've learned is there one thing that you wish all women knew or could do maybe i'm just saying this because i try to think about myself but just not turning rejection back onto yourself. Say someone says, oh, I'm not in the place for a relationship right now, or it just fizzles. I'll just go over and over things that happen on the date with them

that I think I could have done better or things that are wrong with me. Not like, oh, we might be incompatible or something. Just, oh, I could have done this better. I didn't show him this. Oh, I was really nervous at the start and then maybe that was blah, blah, blah. And just, yeah.

And it's stupid. That's good. I think that's really that's I think that's really good because I think it's so easy yeah to just be like oh I need to be better I need to work on myself but that is a separate thing to them like they're just not your person yeah and there's probably a lot of things wrong with them yeah I guess it's like a brilliant chef could cook a fantastic meal but if you don't like prawns you don't like prawns there's nothing wrong with that meal i'm a prawn i think that's a good analogy and you are a prawn

you mentioned briefly just then about nerves at the start of a day i'm so scared i i'm so scared i think once i've done my first date I think it'll be all right because Harriet you've done one you've done a few you've done two do you think it will get easier I think so I think so the second one I felt physically sick and my friend said oh yeah that's that's normal that's so you just you just feel like you're gonna be sick and then you just still go and I was like okay well that's great that's that's so you just you just feel like you're gonna be sick and then you just still go and I was like okay well that's great that's that's that bodes really well for however long it takes me to meet somebody I just feel like I'm gonna vomit um every week or whatever but um but yeah I felt I felt absolutely sick and then I got there and then I was kind of like shaking a little bit like it's so

it's so pathetic but it just felt so overwhelming and I don't even know why like I'm a generally like competent lady you know like I'm living my life but the thought of going on a date is so scary yeah I think it might be the judgment yeah because like yourself out there you're putting your you're literally going this is what I've come up with so I've I've been around for 30 odd years this is the body I've grown this This is the personality I've grown. Do you like it? This is everything I've got. Do you want it or not?

You don't. Fine. But then it's like what Annie said, not turning that rejection back on yourself, remembering what's wrong. That's the advice I always hear. Remembering what's wrong. The advice is that you're trying to judge them.

So often you're trying to impress them and you don't even think about whether you like them or not. And it's trying to be like, do I like them? Is that something that is compatible for me? But then how do you cope with it on the other side? Like cope with the rejection of it? It's hard to imagine you've ever been rejected. But in case you have been, how have you processed that I guess just

talking to friends and like getting them to buff you back up again yeah send some long voice notes articulating your feelings to your friends to the ex to the friends yeah absolutely yeah that's very important advice actually yeah okay really get it off your chest okay it's interesting that you're saying about getting really nervous because I was just thinking when you were talking maybe I'm getting too deep into like analyzing myself but I've never tended to get that nervous before dates but then maybe that's I'm not getting nervous because like you were saying a lot of the nerves come from opening yourself up and being vulnerable so maybe that's, I'm not getting nervous because, like you were saying, a lot of the nerves come from opening yourself up and being vulnerable. So maybe that's probably why I'm not getting so nervous.

Because you are, yes. Because I'm kind of just like. And I think you can tell a little bit when they're doing a prepared story. Like when they're like, oh, this is my date chat, you know, and then they say your story and then they say the punchline. You're like, that seems very well rehearsed. I feel like you did that last night and the night before. And you brought props and just maybe a bit rehearsed. I feel like you did that last night and the night before. And you've brought props.

It's maybe a bit rehearsed. Yeah. The thing that I get really nervous about, but this is even when I'm like meeting a friend, is the bit where you have to walk into the place. Yeah. Is that mad? Do you feel that as well?

No, you're like, how do you open a door? How do you open a door? Where are they sat? Am I going to walk past them? Because what if you don't as well no you're like how do you open a door how do you open a door where are they sat am i gonna walk past them because what if you don't recognize them instantly and stuff like that it's it's literally i honestly feel like once i'm sat down and we have a drink and we've done the first 30 seconds of chat i'll feel like a different person but that bit knowing that they're probably sat in the pub say oh they might not be there yet and you're walking that bit feels like jumping off a cliff and i don't know why that's so scary do you literally do stand-up comedy i know it's not and and it's like i can't i can't open the door to a bar

no way it's too much i don't feel too seen even get I always find I'm seeing friends like this but when you're walking towards them and you catch each other's eyes like way too early too soon too soon and then you're like

and then you're walking and it's why is that so even gross I know I was looking around I'm like oh just looking at the tree and then I know

he's still walking but then they'll probably be feeling something similar you know they have to do it as well. It's hard to remember that men have feelings as well.

It's hard. You have to remind yourself they actually do. But do they? Well, that's also something that helps me was like, just on the same vibe of men having interior worlds. My friend was like one time I was dating someone and then he the conversation was just fizzling out and I was could tell I'd suggested meeting again and he hadn't like bitten on that so I was like oh we're just this is fizzling sort of thing and I was upset about it

but I'd been a bit unsure at the beginning but not because of him just like wasn't that as into it as he was it felt like and my friend was like all that's happened is he's the same as you were then almost yeah and when you realize there's no shame and I wasn't like ew he's weird like anything like that I just wasn't as invested and then it's like he's just not as invested yeah it doesn't have to mean that you're like horrible and gross and yeah yeah that's so true remembering that there can have equal sort of feelings and when you weren't as invested you still pursued it because it wasn't like the end of the world it was like oh I don't know yeah I still thought he's hot he's funny interesting yeah oh my god this is what would change my life that i saw

it was like a tiktok but i feel like loads we've made the tiktok you know when you've been rejected by someone and then you're like cool i'm gonna put loads of pictures looking hot like um mine is like i'm gonna write such a good second book and then they'll realize like, I love this. Do you know what I mean? Men love to read. Men love to read. It's true. It's true. And then it's like, it was a TikTok. It was like, he knows you're pretty. And I was like, that's so true.

Oh my God. They already know. That's amazing. They already know that. Like, I've already written a book. I already look like I do. They know that and they still don't care. So doing that isn't going to change anything.

So true. Yeah, they're not suddenly like, oh, there's this, like, part of her I didn't realise. Or, oh, she's so attractive. Like, that's never, once they've clicked, they've clicked. You can't. Oh, wow. Yeah, I think if they, I think if if they like you I feel like it definitely works it's like if they don't fancy you yeah and then you're doing all this stuff to try and prove how

great you are it's like they probably already know that you're great and that just wasn't what they wanted yeah yeah they wanted like another genre of great or whatever yes oh that's nice another genre of great that was really feminist of me that was fantastic yeah that was really lovely yeah genres of great yeah that's really nice that's really nice this is gonna sound so pathetic um but that's why we're here um just to share just to share things like do you ever like think about things you could say like before you go on the date like go through it like in your head like so when you walk in and you're not just like uh and you sit down yeah i i feel like i do that more when I'm going to a cafe and I haven't spoken all

day and I'll be like I love you yeah I feel like yeah I may be like having like a small conversation in my head a bit like it's kind of calming sometimes in a way to be, to think about, oh, that podcast. Yeah. I might mention this thing later. Yeah. Having things in your back pocket for the awkward silences.

So don't get out like a list of potential topics, but just have a few things in your head going in. I've written a play I thought we could do. It's a script for you. Oh, hello, Amy. I really like you. Oh, great. Yeah, it's a script for you oh hello Amy I really like you

oh great yeah it's a good script yeah I go to so many like work meetings and I'm never like well what how will I walk

in the office how will I sit down on the chair like I don't so maybe if I just maybe this is a terrible idea but maybe if I just think of it more like work

well that's it and I think that's why using the like the leads phrasing I think that's why using the leads phrasing, I think that's it. You just have to see it as it's not personal. It's literally like the work you have to do in order to find your person. Oh, yeah. We're not single women. We're entrepreneurs.

We're at the beginning of a startup. We're professionals. We're professionals. We're doing this for cash. Wait, no. Oh, you just love a roast, do you? Maybe having an activity, you know, how people like to go axe throwing or whatever,

which I think is a bit dangerous on a first date. I wouldn't do that. No way. But having some kind of task that you're kind of distracted. They say when you're driving a car, it's easier to chat to somebody, but I don't do that. No way. But like having some kind of task that you're kind of distracted. Like they say like when you're driving a car it's easier to chat to somebody but I don't think

you should just get in somebody's car for like the first date or whatever. You get in my car I'm going to take you axe throwing. Okay.

Sounds good. But like having something that you're distracted by if you're really nervous that's good or? Yeah. I feel like I wouldn't want to do something

where it's too quiet like a gallery for a first date or whatever. Oh God. Unless it was like maybe like one where you can just chat like you know if you're not in like a designated exhibition that you're just wandering around yeah yeah yeah but I wouldn't want like when we have to read loads next to each piece yeah that's a lovely idea actually again like a noisy gallery because then you have things to look at and you talk about like if you're very nervous and you don't know how to speak to people kind of the beginning then you can just look at a picture

and be like that's stupid whatever look at that big horse what a big horse that is and then they'll fall in love with you yeah okay i'll leave okay i think i've learned a lot um annie can we go on a night out with you? Yes Annie I feel like you could really help us Have you ever done any singles nights or anything like that? I went to one with a friend and I feel like we left like immediately

Oh really? But we turned up right at the end Why is it so hard for them to be good? Do you know what I mean? I feel like it makes sense that they could make that that would be fun and yeah

I feel like with dating now it feels so high stakes to find someone that you it almost makes you shy away from it a lot because it's so much pressure like yeah I was at the pub the other day and there was like a guy at the bar that I just thought was so hot and there was a moment where I could have like enacted that slightly where like me and my friend were going out for a cig and then one of his friends was at the table and I was like oh can you watch our stuff like keep our table and I could have gone is your friend single do you know it wouldn't have been that embarrassing because I wouldn't have had to talk to the friend it was quite yes it's like oh I could have just said

that do you know what I mean there's so many steps like especially as you get old like you don't know if they're single and you don't know if you have to cross that step and then you don't know if they're gonna like you like it's like a lot of steps and so it just feels like a lot but yeah that's it when we're out in the world like we should be just putting that energy out a bit yeah I feel like I'm sure people did it a lot more when they didn't have apps and they were kind of forced to my mum was like everyone used to just meet from work when I was younger and it's like yeah fair but I don't have any colleagues yeah exactly everyone's freelance and everyone's working from home yeah

okay great yeah but I wonder if it's like not as different as we like to like it's always been quite difficult in some ways I don't know

yeah my mum once said about my dad that she was talking about like they'd been like dating for like six months or something or maybe less than that but she went to a party

and then he ignored her all night and I was like nothing's fucking changed and then just and then spoke to her right at the end of the party and I was like oh yeah nothing's changed that's that could be a story my friend is telling me right now but something just happened to her how many people have you slept with have I slept with so I'm on i've i'm just i've just started the apps and i'm messaging and then i think i'm just about ready to go on a date but how many people can you go for dates with at the same time how many people can you talk to at the same time talk to as many people as you want yeah i feel like i can't be bothered to talk to more than two people or I think even dating more than one person is too much like you know if I if that happened then

but if I have someone that I'm into like even if I don't think we're gonna like be boyfriend and girlfriend I wouldn't be on apps because they're boring I also think like we're so programmed for monogamy yeah even when I've so when I have had two people that I was dating I naturally think which one I like more and then I you know like that's that's actually how you work out men is that they have to compete or whatever and you just don't give them attention until one is like wants to be exclusive but in reality that's so hard because you just want to be focused on one person yeah I think it's good if you're going crazy over someone to have other things because it dilutes the feeling a bit yeah that's smart but then it's also hard to make about yourself if you're going mad

yeah with a crush yes this is actually making me like excited to go on apps again oh that's

I just feel like you know we've moaned about it so much but I'm like how am I doing to go on a date now I mean

okay I'm ready for the apps thanks so much Annie I'm ready for dating oh is message back it's not good Thanks so much, Annie. I'm ready for dating. Oh, his message back. It's not good. I liked Annie so much.

I thought she was so cool. Yeah, I just want to hang out with her. Yeah, me too. I feel better knowing that this young woman is experiencing some of the same thoughts and things about being nervous. It's like, okay. like okay because i thought oh she's got it all together like she's gonna come in and be like this is what you do guys yeah then it's just difficult for everybody everybody's trying to work it out when she was like um you know my chat's not that good on that it's like oh okay the bar is low the bar is low. The bar is low. God.

Yeah, I feel so much better talking to her. And I feel more equipped to just go on a bloody date. I'm so excited for you to go on a date. I kind of want to go and watch. Is that too much pressure? I'd love you to come. I'll sit in a trench coat in the corner. No, be with us on the table.

Oh, on the table. Okay, lovely. Don't mention it. I'll just sit down and then just don't mention me and who's this uh uh no way

we need to get Annie but I'm gonna follow her on Instagram and she'll be like where are you going tonight Annie you know yeah hey your fun aunties

wanna come out don't forget about us where are we going the single ladies group she's like guys please this is really embarrassing actually

okay well that was brilliant thank you so much to Annie for coming in thanks Annie see you in real life when we turn up

wherever you are soon going Annie are we okay are we okay are we okay Annie tell us what we're doing Are we okay? Are we okay, Annie? Tell us.

What are we doing wrong? We've rightened. Hello, me again, Amy Gledhill, but this time I'm with... Not Harriet Kemsley. Whoa, WT, fuck! What's going on? I'm with bloody Ian Smith. Off at Northern News podcast. Yes, a podcast that's not about the news.

Don't worry, single ladies. No, it's not about the news. It's not about being single. It's about the North and all of our stories are about couples. That is not the truth, Ian. No, not technically true. It's weird stuff. It's funny stuff that's going on up north that we're reporting back on.

Things like... Pure evil blackbird named Derek terrorising Yorkshire village and attacking children. Woman in tears after spotting spitting image of dead dog in bath mat. And we've got special guests. We're talking about people like Phil Wang, Jessica Knappett, Ed Gamble and Ross Noble, who joined us in the studio. Woo-hoo!

Yeah. So that's Northern News, starting next Thursday, the 1st of May, and then every Thursday after that. Join us.