Single Ladies In Your Area - Sex, body confidence and boundaries with Sofie Hagen

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

This week Harriet and Amy are joined by comedian, author and Amy’s ex-housemate Sofie Hagen, to discuss sex, body confidence and setting boundaries in the bedroom. What does it mean to be “body confident”? How do you set a boundary before sex? And does watching Eurotrash in the 90s count as sex education?TW: In this episode we talk about issues around sexual consentSofie's book Will I Ever Have Sex Again? is available to buy in hardback and audiobook now. Support the podcast and enjoy early and ad-free listening, BTS content and more by subscribing to our Patreon at patreon.com/singleladiesinyourareaWe want to hear your dating stories! Email in at [e-mail] Single Ladies In Your Area on Instagram @singleladiespod and Twitter @singleladiespodRecorded and edited by Aniya Das for Plosive.Photos by Matt Crockett and Linda Blacker.Design by Welcome Studio. Get bonus content on Patreon Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Amy Gledhill. And I'm Harriet Kemsley. We're both single and in our 30s. And we've found ourselves back on the dating scene. And the landscape has changed. Everyone has settled down. But we're back out there. And we're desperately trying to figure out what the hell we should be doing.

So we're going to speak to experts, chat about dates we've been on. If we manage to get any. And share your tips and horror stories. So we all feel less alone. We might even get our exes on yeah we'll see about that this is single ladies in your area so this episode we're talking about traveling as a single lady and we're going to talk to sophie hagan about their book, Will I Ever Have Sex Again? I don't know. I can't answer that, Harriet. Please, can somebody let me know?

I wish I could. Computer says no. Trigger warning. In this episode, we discuss issues of sexual consent. Oh, hello. Hello, old chum. How are you doing? I'm all right. How are you doing? doing i'm good it's nice to be back in a room with you we keep just going off different tours how's the tour going yeah it's good it's fun it's one of those things where i really enjoy doing it it's really fun i want it to be over immediately yes just you want to get home to bed. Yes. Even if it's lovely. Yeah, it is lovely. The people are lovely.

And it's the dream. It was the dream. It's also, I don't know if you've had much of this, but it feels like a thing that women on the road, it's a thing where I just, I want to live my life, like living adventures and going places and doing things. It's overshadowed by a fear of safety at all times. It's so frustrating and annoying I remember

having a chat with my ex-husband about walking home and he was just like would cut through a park and it's just like in the dark and you just like would never imagine having the freedom of just cutting through a park that you just be like oh I have to walk the way around even though that would be the nicer way like obviously I can't do that and so I had a tour show and the venue told me in advance that some weird stuff had been happening with somebody that might be coming to the show and that there might just be a little bit of a safety problem and there was just gonna be no other comics anyone else I knew and just the thought of going there on my own I was just like I was just annoyed by it because I was like I don't have the time to get murdered right now. This is really like getting in the way and you don't want to make a fuss because then you feel silly.

And then people are like, I'm sure it'll be fine. I would rather overbuild it these days because before I'd always be like, oh, don't make a fuss. It's all fine. But now it's like, I have a child. I can't, I don't have time to get murdered. I've got to raise her. Like I've got this vote. I can't, I've got to keep going. I can't. I don't have time to be murdered. I do not have time for't. I've got to keep going. I can't. I don't have time to be murdered. I do not have time for this. I've got to keep going.

I've got other tour dates, guys. I can't get held up here. I can't get kidnapped. I've got things to do. I've got to put the washing on. So it's like, and then it got solved because a friend of ours, this brilliant stand-up, I mean, she offered, I asked her, and then she said she'd open for me.

And I mean, she's way too good to be opening for me, but she was just so sweet. And she came and she opened and then she stayed during the show and then she drove me back to my hotel where I was staying. And it was just so nice to have her there. And I think that's the wonderful thing is like this community, I think, we started to build of female stand-ups because when we started there weren't that many and now I think we're starting to really talk about stuff and be like oh I see that you'd be worried about that so I can of course yeah yeah and we've talked about having a female stand-ups self-defense classes yes because I was on the train and I was like I just felt so angry about it and annoyed because I was just thinking about all the men doing stand-up and just going around fucking everyone,

having the time of their lives. Like, just going back home with people. Headphones on in the dark to the station. I want to walk to the train station after a gig with my headphones on. And I can't. Not in somewhere I don't know. No, absolutely not.

I think as well, what's really tricky is I get a lot of messages. Not, I don't mean like, I get a lot of messages. I just mean I get some messages from men who, I think they think they're being nice. And in my show that I'm on tour with right now, it's about like body image and self-perception and self-esteem. And it's also about someone who, a stranger who smacked my ass on a train, right?

And so I'd say all of this in the show. And then afterwards I get messages from men and I genuinely think in a weird way, in a weird baffling way, their heart's in the right place, but they'll be like, hey, hey Amy, I think you're attractive. I've always thought you're attractive.

I think you're beautiful. I think you're attractive I've always thought you're attractive I think I think you're beautiful I think you're beautiful baby and you're like oh I hate this I hate this and that's why I never know what to reply

because sometimes they write it on your thing so you don't want to be like hee hee thank you yeah it feels like that's what you're meant to do

to be like oh thank you that's a nice thing to say to me angelic yeah that's why i just want to ignore it and then i like like the comments like around it but then you're like i don't know like you feel like they're gonna be like that's so rude i was just telling her how lovely she looks she can't even say thank you so much sir i know i'm like genuinely i believe some of them their heart is in the right place and they don't understand

yes why in the context of things that it's it's unhelpful even when they're trying to like boost my self-esteem and and in the show

I ask I ask a guy if he'll describe me physically and the other day I asked the guy in the audience I was like how would you describe me physically and he was like

shitting himself of course that's the joke that it's how would you describe me physically and he was like shitting himself of course that's the joke that it's an awkward topic and he was like I was going no you don't have to do it and then afterwards

I was saying bye to everybody and he comes up and again trying to be his heart was in the right place I believe it I'll tell you what I would have said no

one on one one on one is worse than with witnesses yes I'll tell you what I would have said. No. One-on-one. One-on-one is worse than with witnesses. Yes. I'll tell you what I would have said. Covetous. Oh. And he's been thinking about that for 45 minutes.

He's been saying, he's not been listening to your words. He's been thinking what is... Yeah. But then I could see in his face, he was like, I've done a really good deed there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've done a really good thing there. I've probably, yeah. I've done a really good thing there. I've probably boosted her confidence.

I'm going to get chips on the way home. Look at me. Look at me go. Boosting a lady. And genuinely, I can see there was no malice. It wasn't a neg. He was like, oh, she'd want to hear this. Obviously, you do want to feel good and you want to boost,

but that needs to come from inwards and the people that you love and trust in your circle. Oh, my God. It's not about strangers. That's it. That's the difference, isn't it? I think. Yeah. Although, saying that, if I'm in the toilet of a club and a woman says.

Lady strangers in a toilet in a club. Different story. Love your hair. love your dress. I'm like, I feel like a princess. I'm so happy. Oh, God. My friend, she collects them and we call them our toilet friends. And they just like, they just compliment each other's hair and their things.

And then they meet up after. Like, it's crazy. It becomes like a whole thing. I love that. It's very sweet. Yeah. I've never felt more womanly love and appreciation than in the toilets. It's so hard because I want men that I fancy to fancy me physically.

Yes. But I don't want men I don't fancy to notice me physically. That's it. I know because it's scary. That's the problem. That's it. It's scary. It's like such a fine line between danger and attraction.

So I think that's what i'm scared of it's like i want men to be attracted but also i don't because they can be scary it's like yeah because if they're attracted to you and they shouldn't be you're like oh my god how do i get out of this yes and if you're attracted to them you want them so you're kind of going, look at me, look at me. Look at these boobies I've got. No, not you. Not you. Stop looking at me. You, look here. You, look away. Danger, back. Get away.

Police. And then you're sort of jiggling to the other guy. It's so hard. It's so hard because you can't understand them. I know it's confusing because they're like, is it jiggling at me? It is jiggling, but is it at me? You're like is it is it jiggling at me it is jiggling but is it me like no get off it is it's hard it's all hard and um you know it's so hard and I was talking to a woman after one of my toy shows and she um had found us a single after having a baby and she was just saying how hard it is to get out there with your body when you've had babies as well and it's all

new and you might have met someone in your 20s or early 30s and suddenly your body is a it's a different wonderland you know things have happened things have happened to the playground the swings are broken the noises are different like everything is is different and then you're like it feels so scary to show that yeah somebody yeah 100 it's so hard to be body it's so hard there's a few women that i know that are but i think and look anybody can be body confident any size shape ability anyone can find that body confidence it just happens to be that the three or four women I know that are body confident are all incredibly tiny women.

They are tiny women with lovely pear bosoms, olive skin, no stretch marks, able-bodied. You often see them on Instagram saying, you can feel as confident as me. It's just a mental thing. It's just mental. And the breasts, stomachs is my hardest thing. Last night I was getting dressed and I was going out and I said to Mabel,

is this too tight? And she went, yeah, too tight. She's two. She's two and she knows. So we're very lucky to have a great guest here here with us we both know sophie yeah have done for many years i used to live with sophie did you yeah i didn't even know that yeah kind of briefly in a long time ago i moved into their living room i don't want to think about it too much they were definitely rats fucking in my bed what yeah in the under bit of my bed but i didn't know

till i moved out we moved the bed and there was a whole rat family. Not rat, maybe mouse. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. There was definitely mice in the house. Yes, yes. Okay. Okay.

Oh, we're very lucky to have Sophie on to chat about mice. And how to have sex. And how to have sex. That's why I wanted to ask them. Yeah. Amy, we've got to get out there. And welcome to the them. Amy, we've got to get out there. And welcome to the podcast. Author, comedian, podcaster, presenter, friend. May I?

Why is there a question? Friend. Okay. That felt so vulnerable actually. You put that out there, yeah. Can I say this? Ex-housemate. Lover. Not yet.

Not yet. Upcoming lover. Upcoming lover. Imminent lover. Imminent lover. Sophie Hagen. Hello. Hello.

Thanks for joining us. I've also met Harriet once. Okay. Yeah, we've met before. Yes. Yeah, I've never stayed in her. No, we've not lived together. We've lived nearby though.

Yeah. In Streatham. Oh my God. It's almost like we've not lived together we've lived nearby though in Streatham oh my god it's almost like we've known each other for 10 years we've had so many connections so yeah our podcast

is me and Harriet putting ourselves back out there how exciting oh is it yeah I mean not judging by the look on your faces

it looks like it might be death for you it's hard isn't it we want it but we're scared what are you scared of what do we do have you tried like gumtree a little ad okay do you want a table or a lady 20 quid job lot must collect to be Must collect. To be picked up, yeah. To be picked up.

Do you date? Are you currently dating? No. Great. No, I've been on, I'm going to say two dates. And that is, there are quotes around both of them. Okay. In the past 10 years.

Oh, in the past 10 years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for saying the bow real high before I plummeted into, no, a decade. No, in the last decade. Great. Great. Yeah. And how did that go?

I mean, I'm single. So. I think I know about one of them. Yeah. Amy, you're the reason for one of them. Thank you so much. Amy made one of them happen. Yes, I did.

Yeah. Like violently set me up. Violently. I don't know if I appreciate the word violently. yeah like violently set me up violently yeah but in the world but none of it was so calculated that i didn't know it was your thing until years later because you were so casual about and i think it's because you know me you know that if you'd gone i need you to meet one of my friends i would have gone absolutely not go die that is the worst thing yeah but instead you were like are my friends coming by do you want to come out with us and I was like no and then he arrived and I was like okay yeah and then you

made me think it was my idea and it wasn't so much later he was like oh no no Amy planned this it sounds calculated in a bad way though no not at all this is this is what I want if someone wants to date me they cannot say hey do you want to go on a date? Because I'm like, absolutely not. Go away. They need to, like, befriend me or make me think that we're meeting randomly and that we're then, like, working together for a while or, like, living next to each other for a while, like, something where we know each other for a long period of time until I develop feelings yeah and then they can be like oh let me think about it I'm not sure then I chase

them for a couple of years and then they go okay so that's the only way I'll feel safe enough to it's the long game yeah it's a hell of a long game and you nailed that in one evening and that was really well done okay those of you listening who wanted it so if you get in touch with me yeah I think I can make this happen yeah I think that's what every single person wants it's just somebody else to deal with it because it just it feels so stressful yeah you just want to be like guys seriously can you do something about this like you know you're happy you've got it sorted like use some of that time you know it shouldn't be up to us to deal with this because you can't have a reasonable

and objective opinion of yourself and who you should date. Yeah. I pick terrible people. Yes. I was going to go like, no, but I didn't have the energy. Truly horrible people.

It's absolutely mad. It's my vibe. I's my, my vibe. I hope they never sleep because they cannot believe they had you and lost you. Oh, that's nice.

I would be so mad all the time. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, well take that you sleepless bastards.

But I have a real, a real toxic tendency for going for unavailable, quite mean, nasty men. Yeah, pathetic men. Yes. Yeah. Can I just ask, at this point, so we've all known each other for many years and you both

agree that I've been in terrible relationships. Yeah. Why didn't you do anything about it? Oh, I told you repeatedly. You didn't need to be there. To be there, you did. repeatedly yeah i did everything i possibly could in my power yeah yeah and then you have one great guy in your life and you're like sophie do you want this one i'm like okay he's got next to no red flags yes that's my vibe yeah that's your vibe

are you doing anything to get out of that vibe? Yes, I've started going to therapy. Yes. And we've talked a lot about why I'm attracted to that. Yeah. And this is just a working theory. If you're interested, maybe it's very boring, but it's just a working theory.

My therapist, who I love, calls it someone's shadow side. The darkness in someone. And because I don't allow myself's shadow side, the darkness in someone. And because I don't allow myself to express any of my darkness, I'm really impressed by people who can just outwardly show their like horrible tendencies. And I'm like, wow,

look at them just be nasty. Oh my God. That's amazing. Cause I've repressed anything that isn't like. Yeah. So I see people being awful and I'm like wow and then I'm like I think they're magical and then that's why I'm attracted to them that's in theory I think I had that a bit where it's like if they can be really honest and say how they feel all the time like I'm like that's so attractive but then sometimes they're just being a cunt yes yeah I have a friend who's dating someone and she was like what I really love about him is that he's really good at telling me all my flaws wait I understand I really do understand the logic behind saying that because they can see

the flaws and then they like he's not lying to me like the ones who are nice to me that's hard yeah it's real bad isn isn't it? It's real bad. And that's why I'm single. Because once you've been in therapy for 10 years, you start to see all the things that you're doing. And then before you're even meeting them, you're already going, okay, so my tendency is this.

And if I'm attracted to him, that must mean this. And then you get into this like... In a healthy way or in an unhealthy way, what patterns do you kind of look for what are you attracted to oh I love that they're not available and not into me because I feel like that's really attractive

yeah yeah I really like when they're not at all interested then I'm like hi dad so we meet again let's see if we can change it around this time since it didn't work back then.

Interesting. That's the thing they've all had in common. But I did used to like assholes. I did used to like when they were really mean. I thought that was really cute. Yeah, I remember some of them. Yeah, you've met them. But now I really genuinely just want someone nice.

I want someone really nice and lovely and good and kind-hearted. I thought I did find some of them. Turns out they can also be unavailable and toxic. Sometimes they're worse because they're pretending. It becomes more like self-pity, which then becomes like I haven't done any of the work on myself. I need a new mommy, that kind of stuff. So you're looking for the dad, they're looking for the mom.

And did that work out? it did not no oh is message back it's not good i have started listening to your book and i love it and i'd say i love it i also it brings me feelings of love and also anger yeah and frustration on your behalf and just in general at uh society in the book you talk about how to have sex and i think that's something that maybe i don't speak for you amy but we'd be wondering go on i'm listening when a mommy and a daddy really like each other they leave yeah they they find someone else that the other person doesn't know about and then for many many years they kind of groom that other person into thinking that they can trust them and then eventually they have sex that's right another long game i'm interested i'm making notes

carry on because i think that's one of the things that's kind of assumed is that like if you're a single lady it's easy just to have sex and find somebody that wants to have sex with you but how why when where yeah all reasonable questions yes if you could just answer those for us you can't do the why the why is a puzzle to all of us okay no but it's like because yeah the book is about how i haven't had sex in almost a decade and counting. It's so fun. What a fun joke. And it turns out I'm not the only one.

I really thought I was alone. I thought everyone was just banging right, left and center and all of the other places. That was the answer to where? That's where you have sex. Okay. But no, so many people are like are like oh I actually don't know especially I think our generation

where I feel like Gen Z they have everything covered they know what they're doing we don't have to ever worry about them where we're like um

wait we learned everything there is to know from either porn or in your case British schools and I don't know

which one was most accurate in what they taught. I learned everything from Eurotrash, which is a kind of mixture of the two. What's that? Oh, a terrible, brilliant programme on Channel 4. What was it?

Was he French? He was French. And then sometimes there'd be boobs. And sometimes there'd be boobs. Right. But they do, like, it was like a little kind of documentary where they'd go around to, like... Documentary a hell of a long way a harrowing documentary on channel four on Friday nights they'd go around and it was like it kind of really advanced for

what it was because it was exploring like kink culture and sort of queer subcultures and it was really interesting like honestly it was brilliant and sometimes there'd be boobs and it was funny I think looking back I'm not sure how progressive we'd say it was do you think it sounds real progressive the way you're describing it for a show that was on in the 90s it was progressive for the 90s just even giving these elements of society a platform I can't remember specific language so you can't please don't shackle me to this but for the time it was one of the only things I remember seeing where it was like oh wow look in this tiny village they have a milkmaid festival where all the women get their boobies out of milk cows. And you're like, why not?

I've never been exposed to anything like that before. I think they probably weren't great towards women. Because that's my memory of it, I'd say. Okay. Right. Good. Harriet, I've put a dog with tits on my profile. So you found that there was a whole,

I think I remember reading that you were very surprised by how many people were not having sex out there yeah i did this google form thing where i asked like oh can anyone else relate to this and within 48 hours i got 1800 replies which was incredible i had to shut it down because i was like okay i need to be able to read all of them because people are maybe like finally someone's talking about this so many people were like i've never questioned this before. I've never had to say this out loud before. So many people hadn't really thought of it until the question was even asked.

It made me feel incredibly less alone. Like, there was like, oh, this is a thing. This is actually quite difficult for a lot of us. Because I remember when I, and I write about this in the book as well, when I lost my virginity, I was so surprised that it was just fun and easy and no big deal. I was like, oh, that was nice. Because I was the last person in my town to lose my virginity.

The whole town! The town crier finally could come out. Sophie's lost in her life. I've been waiting for this moment. Oh, my God. Raise the flag. Or, like, my year, like, everyone had, like, had sex at the age of, like, 12 and 13. And I was 16, so I was real old and a loser.

But in my head, I'd been like, oh, my God, sex is going to be this, like, massive thing. And I can see how it takes over everyone's brains. And it's, like, on TV and in the movies. And it's, like, everyone's talking about sex. like on tv and in the movies it's like everyone's talking about sex this is like this thing then i had it and i was like oh okay that was nice yeah but like no big deal and then now i'm suddenly like oh god is this huge thing and we should be having it why am i not having it and how can i have it and when and how and who and where and yeah i'm like wait at some point it was just fun and easy. What happened?

Yes. Right? Like it could, it should be because it's literally just two bodies having a lot of fun together. Yeah. Why is that not like a simple, easy, fun thing to do? I had a year after the divorce where I was celibate, not by choice, and I really started to overthink everything.

Like I really, like I've got a bit of my show about how I just started to be repelled by anything and just really overthink everything like I really like I've got a bit of my show about how just like I just started to be repelled by anything just really overthink like how disgusting kissing was and just the idea of having sex with someone just like built up so much as being something horrible I think when you don't do it for a while it it builds in scariness yeah then try having written a book about it and then going out there oh have i thought about this yeah for 85 000 words i've thought about this i've spoken to experts but no worries let's have fun now but like i would get too much in my head about like i guess i would make it so much about me so it's always like when thinking about kissing someone i'd be like oh but what if i'm bad at kissing i must be so

bad what if they're thinking bad things about how i'm kissing and then I'm gonna take my what are they gonna think about my body what are they gonna think about oh I don't know what I'm doing should I be doing this and then when you're in your head you know the sex is not going to be fun for anyone and also the what are the odds that the other person is not also going to be like oh what did you think about me kissing and how did you think about it and that sex is an action thing it's not about thinking it's like a thing where you just have to do and so I think thinking about it? And that sex is an action thing. It's not about thinking. It's like a thing where you just have to do. And so I think thinking about it is kind of a bit of a waste of time. Yeah, and which, no.

Really? You know what I mean? Because if they want to do it, they will. Yeah, but I was spending so much time just really thinking about it. Yeah. And I think that's why I would often, when I was younger, get drunk before having sex. I was like, would that I can like like please just get out of my head and just

I think that's one of the big things that's changed when I was younger and drunk even just like kissing someone I'd like go out and kiss like three people a night not every night but if I'd had a lot to drink and I don't think they were good people but you know and it just like you just fall onto someone's lips and it was easy and then you'd sort of like wobble off and and everything was fine like now because i drink so much less and i'm often with people that don't drink at all now it's just two sober adults with all the baggage and anxieties of their entire lives just looking at each other being like there's no way we can go from should we press our lips together now as adults yeah bizarre did, it's weird. In a lovely kiss as adults? Yeah, bizarre.

Did you learn how to do that, to bridge that gap? I know what it's meant to feel like. When I say I haven't had sex in 10 years, a lot of it is, there have been offers. How you say in English? You're like a mafia boss or something. I've had some offers, don't you worry. I've had offers I could refuse.

Yes. It was quite easy. But I could feel like when my brain, when I go into my head and I'm like, oh, no, like I'm panicking, I'm panicking. I'm like, okay, well, then I know that I should not have sex until I can let go of being in my head and exist in my body. Because what it does to me when I'm in my head and I'm not present is then I can't tell if my body wants to or not. And I can't tell when my body is saying yes or no. And if I can't feel if I'm a yes or a no in my body when I'm having sex, like you need to be able to do that to have safe, comfortable, lovely, nice sex. And that is what I want to have. So until I said,

and I'm, you know, hung out with some people where I thought could there be something and the second I've thought oh maybe there is I can feel myself like leaving my body going into my head and I'm like oh not yet then we're not there yet so whenever I next have sex I need to be like can I feel oh yeah I now know if I want to or not then I can go ahead and I also need to feel safe in like would I be able to tell this person oh can we wait okay stop like let's not do it right now yeah because if I'm like oh but then what if he gets upset then that's not a good situation to be in what if he leaves and then never comes back oh no what if he gets a little bit sad and a bit disappointed oh no I better just go on

yeah yeah yeah yeah I think that's such a radical thing to think about because I think we're very much raised to think about the other person's feelings especially as like young girls that that's the thing that's taught is their feelings rather than our own and I have a bit of trauma in my past like related to this kind of stuff and so it does complicate it and it's really hard to break it all down and just think is this something I want yeah to do and yeah not be doing it for other reasons yeah and I also think I would need to know the person for a bit and I think I mean I'm raised on sitcoms and the whole idea is you're meant to sleep with someone within like the first three dates otherwise it's your friend zoning them or whatever yeah but I really think I would need to

like we need to like lie in bed next to each other a couple of nights before anything happened until I was absolutely certain and that feels now like a lot to ask of a person to be like it said what you said Amy about like you're too like traumatized people so traumatized people being like well actually according to my therapist I really need to just lie next to someone for a bit and then maybe at some point I'll remove my sweater but I'm not sure like it just feels like a lot to put on a new person when it's meant to be all exciting and sexy. But again, maybe exciting and sexy was like what was exciting and sexy when you were 22, was just going out, getting drunk, doing horrible things in a cupboard somewhere.

But I think it can build. Like for me, definitely it is like a longer thing. Like I don't generally just like meet someone like immediately. I like more like we were looking at photos of people. Like I'm not like I'm not like oh god yeah I have to really get to know them and find them funny and all this other stuff that isn't actually related you'd think to sex but I need to know that stuff I need to trust them now and I mean not in the past uh but now it's really untrustworthy characters actually uh but uh now like you're just it's just different because there's so much

to think about and consider and check in with yourself and make sure how you're feeling and if it's right and not to rush things and that's new

that's a new muscle and that's all that we're learning like I never had that muscle before it was just like oh I've said yes so this happens or it seems like it's happening even if it happens

well I'm at his house it would be mad if I didn't do something now because he's got me the bus fare so so it is like a new thing but then also because i think like what you said in sitcoms and in films and how how sex is perceived particularly with a new person it's meant to be like in the moment spontaneous it's meant to come from such a passion that you have to rip each other's clothes off there and then it meant to be like in the moment spontaneous it's meant to come from such a passion that you have to rip each other's clothes off there and then it has to be now it has to be immediate it's urgent and you kind of feel like the two it's hard to make them coexist and they

can obviously but it feels like almost alchemy to to put them two things together where there's such like a lust and a desire to do it. And also like a safety and a comfort. And it just feels like the actual conditions for having brilliant, lovely sex are so rare. But I think it's because we're also used to thinking about men as these like, oh, it's like an on and off button. And then if it's on, we do it. If it's off, we don't. Like you're not meant to like talk about boundaries before you have sex with a man. Like there are all these like, I remember rules from my youth.

Don't put them off. Yeah, don't ask if they have a condom because then they might lose interest. Like don't say this because they might lose interest. Don't be too loud. Yeah, they'll think you're a slut if you ask if they have a condom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are all these like weird rules or if you provide one they're like whoa it looks like yeah it's just being practical for once in my life

on the ground outside i've never seen one before is this a condom i think we should try and use it and that's like the that's the one Hello, this is Harriet. And Amy. From Single Ladies In Your Area, the podcast you are listening to. We've got a bit of news for you, actually. We have started a Patreon. Woo, woo, woo!

Get ready. We're on the Patreon. We're on the Patreon wagon. We've got bonus content for you, behind-the-scenes stuff. You get bonus content for you. Behind the scenes stuff. You get ad free episodes. You get them quicker. You get them early, Harriet.

Before we've even heard them, probably. I can't wait. I don't have time to wait for episodes. No, I need to know how to do it and I need to know immediately. Yes. We're going to get your stories, your horror stories,

your success stories. Then we're going to make extra episodes around them it's all going on it's all going on it's all going on so it's going to be £5 a month but if you're one of the first

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So join our Patreon. It's patreon.com forward slash singleladiesinyourarea or the scenic route isitham.org. Get involved. We'll see you there. Been up too much this weekend? Oh! involved we'll see you there been up to much this weekend we can really learn something from the queer community and from kink community because those people i say that i'm queer but i have not had the queer sex yet so i yes okay you know i'm a half one foot half in the door um It's a conversation, right?

I'm not saying all queer people do it perfectly, but it's more common, because especially amongst women who are in queer relationships, I'm just so used to having the conversations, trans people who are so used to having to talk about their bodies all the time and their boundaries, and kink as well, where you have to talk about boundaries pre the sex, and you have to make sure you know every little thing and it is still sexy. You know, it's not like we hear about, you know,

oh, lesbians are always like, oh God, we have to talk before sex. Like it's still hard. It's so hard. Like for my book, I went to Berlin to be at a porn shoot for Astis, which is this brilliant German feminist porn production company. and I was seeing these two beautiful amazing sexy women and they were talking about the sex they're about to have on camera and they were just going like yeah so what I really like is like if a hand like hovers over my skin but doesn't quite touch that really makes me really okay and then and then it'd be like what i don't like is like pulling my hair i really don't want that i mean you can remove it like gently from my face so please don't pull my hair and they were just sharing these that's amazing this is sexy how is this

sexy like i was taught that this kind of also how do they i was like how do they know i know they must be have been so aware of like what do I like where are my boundaries and and my the first thing that popped into my head was oh but what if the other person then don't want to do it what if you say like I don't want you to do this and they go okay well then I'm out and I was like whoa where did that come from in my head it's the male ego that's what we're afraid of it's so interesting to talk about it rather than just to do it and then then flinch or you flinch or just like be really uncomfortable you could have just had that it and then flinch or you flinch or just like be really uncomfortable. You could have just had that conversation

and just been like, oh, what do you hate? And they're like, oh, I hate it when you touch my face or whatever and then you just wouldn't do it rather than doing it

and they go, ugh, that's better. That's better, you know? I love that you've come out from what do you hate rather than I really like it and you're like,

what do you hate? Can that be the boundary? I need to go and see some of these shoots to see the backstage stuff. Should we go and see some shoots? Oh my God, can you imagine? I don't know if it's like an open door. Sophie sent us.

Hello. Yeah, I've never known how to ask for anything. I will honestly say I've never asked for anything at all. What do you mean? I've never gone like, oh, could you do it like this? I've never once in my life dared to go, I actually don't like that. Would it be okay if you did it more like this? I've said no to things I don't want to do, but like...

You've never moved a hand or anything? I've never moved a hand. I've never slowed down a jabbing finger. I've just been like, oh yeah, that is good stuff, really. But what I have done is said, what do you like? Because I'm sure I'll be into it too. Oh, 100%. I've said that a million times. Of course. Now, whatever you're into,

I'm so into it. I'm so into it. You like that? That's mad. That's mad. That's exactly exactly what i like yeah let's try it let's definitely oh yeah i love yeah yeah i see why people like yeah yeah no i can learn to love it i can learn to love this i'm pretty sure i can learn to love this as well as i can learn to love you yes yes yes i love you so i love everything that you ever want me to do ever i promise what's the boundary no no keep going yeah yeah and like actually there's this fear of upsetting a certain kind of um person we shouldn't want to be with

anyway that is going to be like that like butthurt and then just like react horribly but anybody I think that actually we should be in a relationship or like is going to react and be like oh my god that's really sexy that you just said what you want. I feel like it should be common sense and automatic that they want to know what you like before they start doing it to you. The idea we've learned, being straightness. Then we've got to think about what we like, I think. Yeah, then you have to know. That's the other thing that's difficult.

You've got a journey ahead of us. Oh my God, we've got so far to go. Every time, every episode I'm like, yeah, okay, I think I get this. And then I feel like I'm always back to square one of going like, oh, I've got less boundaries and control than a 14-year-old these days. They'll go, I like this and this. You're not doing this. I'm happy to do this.

We will not be doing this. Whereas I'm just like, I'll take anything however you want it. But also it's so tempting to not. Like, this is like this, all of this requires that you are present in your body and that you're like there. And being with someone where you don't have to do that can sometimes be quite, in quotes, nice. Because then you don't have to be present. You don't have to like exist in your body, but you can still do the thing. And I think that it's so tempting to just let go and exist in your head and like oh whatever I've just had sex and it's

fine because it's harder work to not do that yeah no no no god no and we've not even really covered body image which was Sophie's first book my My first book was called Happy Back. What did you discover about being body confident? So in my first book, I was very much like, this is how you love your body, which I still stand by. There are some pretty sort of like logical, practical things you can do, affirmations and, you know, changing the way you think about certain things. But then with the second book, with the sex book, I wanted to kind of, because I realized the second book with the sex book i wanted to kind of because i realized the first book was so much about you and your relationship with your body and then i realized oh there's such a big difference between loving your body and then trusting that someone else could love

your body i was like oh that feels like miles and miles away from each other because like i truly love my body i think my body is amazing i think i'm hot I think I'm sexy but do I think anyone else thinks that oh that's suddenly like a difficult one to believe so I wanted to make it very clear that there are options right like people date like everyone dates everyone can date everyone everyone is attractive to some and I do believe that and there are fortunately social media profiles where there's evidence and I sometimes look at them they're like fat couples or like where one of the people are fat or both of them are fat where I can go okay it exists these people exist in real life it exists but then I also want to acknowledge that it is harder because I think a lot of the kind of messages we get it's like just be confident like just if you just walk into a room and you're confident everyone will want you

and then you wobble in and they're like nope and you're like oh not confident enough I guess surely it's not because I'm fat and you end up gaslighting yourself like being gaslit so much about what's all about confidence and then you then you're just like forcing the smile on your face. I love myself, I love myself, I love myself. And for some reason, not interested when you scream that at them. So I wanted to kind of acknowledge both. And what's been so interesting since the book came out is when I've done interviews with people, particularly thin people, they've been like, yeah, I loved your point about how you just need to get out there and trust that there are people who will be into you and i'm like yeah yeah but also it's harder and we need to really acknowledge that there are so many studies and so many things to show that being a fat person

dating is so much harder and it's harder the fatter you get easier the thinner you get even for thin people it's hard to like imagine how hard it is when you're 400 pounds heavier than that. But people only want to talk about, no, no, but you'll find someone. Just put yourself out there. There's someone for everyone. It's like, yeah, but we also have to acknowledge that sometimes it's for your own safety that you're staying at home and you're not going on the app. Because it can be really hard to be constantly rejected and swipe on people and then only three people swipe back if you're lucky that day. And I really wanted people, fat people, because that's like the group

I can speak more on behalf of who are also struggling in dating, that I want to acknowledge that it's really hard and we need to be aware of that because it's so easy to just say, just smile more because that is not going to work on dating profiles. It is just, it's so easy to just say just smile more yeah because like that is not gonna work on dating profiles it is just it's a fat phobic world and it's harder to date it is for sure I joined an app that was for how did they describe it they didn't say fat they said something like cuddly cuddly curvy c curvy. Curvaceous. Curvaceous. Curvaceous.

And I was like, oh. But for the podcast, I joined all the apps. Which one do you? Woo Plus. Oh, I don't think I've heard of that one. Okay. Look, it's not for me because I found that the matches on there were almost like, they weren't like matching you because they fancied you, they fancied your personality.

Yeah. And also your body. It was kind of like almost, you were almost objectified. Yeah. And I found that like, oh, a real like, almost like fetishy novelty. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I don't know.

I'm glad it exists. and i don't think it's the platform's fault i understand what they're trying to do yeah because i think it is hard on normal apps yeah i don't know i found that yeah there's a certain type who well there are also people who want to be objectified who want who just want to have sex because they want they want to feel what it's like to have their body just wanted for their body's sake, which is why it's fine. But it makes me feel really icky. You can sense when people talk to you because they assume

you have lower self-esteem. Yes. Or they assume it's going to be easy. I remember being in a, I think it was Soho Theatre once, I'd seen this guy walking around, literally approaching every single woman in this bar. And when it was closing, he literally just like shrugged and then went, and then approached me. And I was like, absolutely not.

Oh. No. Absolutely not. He was like, okay, well, I guess I'll take that one then. And I was like, no. And he was so surprised when I was like, no, I'm sorry, we're just, we're talking. Oh, but he was so shocked. And I was like, no, no, no.

Oh, my God. Because they assume that you're just sitting there being like, oh, boy, I really hope, I really hope someone will want me tonight. I'm so not there. But the app I have liked has been Field. That's interesting. I'm just hearing positive things about field yes yeah I mean there are also not all apps but that's that's one where I've gotten yeah okay

a surprising amount of not surprising to me amount of swipes or whatever you call it and I've heard from a few other people that's one where conversations are easier as in like oh my god everyone's profile is like yeah here are all my sexual boundaries here's all my childhood trauma here's my attachment style uh here's my i've done a lot of parts work and here's my shadow sides like it's like oh my god like oh my god i don't want to know that though i only want to know that from people i know like oh god i don't even want to i don't even know you is that a bad reaction no you can have whatever reaction

you want yeah yeah I prefer to to find it out after sort of six or seven years it's just easier

isn't it it's just easier when you've moved in to find out but yes thank you Sophie for coming on thank you for having us

have I made it all easier and better in some ways yes in some ways much worse. In some ways, much worse. Much worse. Much worse. I feel like I've taken

three steps back, but then a little, a more useful step forward. A more grounded step forward. A more solid ground. I'm off the quicksand, but I'm further back somehow. You know what I mean?

I've taken a step forward, I've been hit by a car. Yeah, you're holding it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Plameted into a ditch. the back somehow. I've taken a step forward, I've been hit by a car and rolled a little bit. Plameted into a ditch. And I look forward to setting you up in the future. Thank you, please do, because it was fun that one time.

Is this flirting? Well, think sophie's great i think having very important conversations yeah i feel like my mind is bended and twisted in a good way i feel like like it's been deep cleaned yeah mine's been um getting really filthy and a good clean up. Yeah, I think it was good. There was a couple of things that stuck with me from the book. One of them was talking about how we can go along with things in sex that it's not we've said no or we're too drunk. And that's that's also feels a lot to say. But yeah.

Or even not to that extent, even if they don't know you're going along with it. Even if to them you've given consent, but in your head it's more logistics. Yeah. Or fear. Or genuinely just people pleasing. Yeah. I've definitely so many times been in situations where I've just chronically people pleased

to the extent where I'm like, oh, I don't really want to do this but I'll even be giving so I am giving consent I'll be giving verbal consent but mentally I'm going oh god get this done yeah and I think what Sophie was saying about listening to your body is something that's a real like new thing yeah but yeah the way that she talked about that area around sex was that it is a form of rape when you clearly don't want to do something in someone you end up doing it and that at first when I heard it I was like kind of annoyed about it because I was like no that's not what that is then you're like oh no that is a thing when someone manipulates you into something where

it ends up happening yeah and it's um an interesting thing to think about not fun not fun not fun god no not fun but they use the the interesting term is is self-rip as well right yeah where it's you're kind of doing it against your own will not not against their you're abandoning yourself you're abandoning yourself because you just think it's the thing to do oh god it does make it harder to um to enjoy this whole process when there's all this other stuff around it which you have to oh you have to process and think of that and you're like oh i just want to have a nice time actually but i think it's good and it's good to unpack stuff and to really go into things knowing your boundaries and knowing that you're not going to just go along with me because it's convenient

or because they're tricking you into something yeah I'm watching out for you you can't get me again oh gosh it is all part and parcel of it it really is and I'm glad it is because in my 20s it wasn't yeah boundaries safety consent had no place in my in my late teens early 20s it just didn't no no not at all it was just getting drunk and doing whatever you and wanting them to like you yeah yeah and it's a real difference and I'm obviously delighted it's here yeah it just isn't easy yeah but it's a real difference. And I'm obviously delighted it's here. Yeah. It just isn't easy. Yeah. But it's good. Yeah.

It's good, but it's not easy. It's all fun. It's just not fun. Why can't we just have some fun? Let's just have some fun. Let's just please have some fun. But yeah, I really recommend Sophie's book. Yeah.

Will I Ever Have Sex Again? And I think it's good we're talking about it it's a baby book for anyone of any gender as well I've been listening, listen, read and there's a great, if you listen there's a great because I got the audio book as well

because there's an interview with Sarah Pascoe at the end, it's like a bonus feature oh yeah I'm going to get to that. Oh, yes. And of course, we've got Sophie's podcast. Yes.

Pole Pole? With Abbey Wamba. Have a listen. I always find I could talk to Sophie just for hours and hours and hours. Wise. Wise. Done the thinking.

But you know what? Just cut through the bullshit. Yeah. Like a hot knife through butter. Yeah. This is how I feel. That guy was bad. bullshit. Yeah. Like a hot knife through butter. Yeah, that's how they kept saying. This is how I feel. That guy was bad. Yes, yeah.

I was like, that guy bad. I don't think so. What I like is they're cutting through the butter and you're just absolutely ignoring it. You're just smearing that butter on your... Rubbing that butter all over. Delighted with myself. Going, look at this lovely butter.

This is great butter. This is never going to backfire. Butter's never bad for you. Hello, me again, Amy Gledhill, but this time I'm with... Not Harriet Kemsley. Whoa, WT, fuck! What's going on? I'm with... Not Harriet Kemsley. Whoa! WT, fuck! What's going on? I'm with bloody Ian Smith.

Off at Northern News podcast. Yes, a podcast that's not about the news. Don't worry, single ladies. No, it's not about the news. It's not about being single. No. It's about the North, and all of our stories are about couples. That is not the truth, Ian.

No, not technically true. It's weird stuff. It's funny stuff that's going on up north that we're reporting back on. Things like... Pure evil blackbird named Derek terrorising Yorkshire village and attacking children. Woman in tears after spotting spitting image of dead dog in bath mat. And we've got special guests.

We're talking about people like Phil Wang, Jessica Knappett, Ed Gamble and Ross Noble, who joined us in the studio. Woo-hoo! Yeah. So that's Northern News, starting next Thursday, the 1st of May, and then every Thursday after that. Join us.