Sins & Survivors: A Las Vegas True Crime Podcast - Deadly Domestic Violence in Vancouver: Meshay & Layla (PNW Haunts & Homicides)

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

As we look to take some well-earned time off and build up a nice backlog for season 3, we'll be bringing you the occasional feed swap from one of the many podcasts we love in the ethical true crime space. Today, we have two for you from PNW Haunts & Homicides. In the first, they cover the tragic case of Meshay Melendez and Layla Stewart, and that's what we bring you today. A reminder if you or anyone you know is experiencing domestic violence, please avail yourself of the resources, or share the resources we have listed at https://sinspod.co/resourceshttps://sinspod.co/87https://sinspod.co/87blogPlease pay them a visit at https://sinspod.co/pnwHere are their show notes!---In March 2023, Meshay Melendez and her daughter Layla Stewart disappeared from Vancouver, Washington. Despite multiple red flags and an active no-contact order, Meshay’s abusive ex-boyfriend, Kirkland Warren, was free—with devastating consequences. In this heart-wrenching episode, we uncover the tragic story of Meshay Melendez and her 7-year-old daughter, Layla Stewart, whose lives were cut short. This case shines a light on the cracks in the system when it comes to domestic violence protections and the urgent need for systemic change and nuanced dialogue that produce real change.Join us as we trace the chilling timeline:Meshay’s turbulent history with Warren, including prior domestic violence.Court decisions that left Warren free despite extreme risk assessments.The heartbreaking discovery of Meshay and Layla’s bodies.Warren’s shocking criminal past, his manipulation of the legal system, and the final sentencing.If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233), text "START" to 88788, or visit thehotline.org.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/sins-survivors-a-las-vegas-true-crime-podcast--6173686/support.

To listen ad-free, visit sinspod.co. slash subscribe. Starting at $2.99 a month, you'll also get access to our exclusive bonus content episodes when you join through Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Thanks for supporting the show. Hello, Sins and Survivors listeners. As we get closer to wrapping up our second season, we're taking a little time to recharge and gear up for some incredible stories in season three. So over the next few weeks, we'll be dropping the occasional surprise episode and a few

special feed swaps. Today we're bringing you something a little different, a special feed swap episode from our friends over at P&W Haunts and Homicides, Caitlin and Cassie. They cover true crime and haunted history from the Pacific Northwest, and their storytelling is thoughtful, funny, and well researched. The episode you're about to hear covers the heartbreaking story of Meche Melendez and her seven-year-old daughter, Laila Stewart. It's the story of two lives cut short and a case that should have been prevented. It's yet another example of how red flags can be

missed, how systems often fail victims of domestic violence, and just how urgent this issue really is. Cassie and Caitlin walk through the timeline, the history of the man responsible, and the many points where this could have gone differently. It's heavy but powerful, and an important reminder that these aren't just stories, they're people. When you're done, head over to sinspod.co.pnw or look for them wherever you get your podcasts. It isn't just a true crime story. It's a timeline of heartbreak, a story of a mother, a daughter, and a system that seemed to have every opportunity to prevent their deaths and didn't. What happened to them is horrifying, but what's equally

chilling is how much could have been prevented. We tell ourselves that we have systems in place to help prevent these tragedies in our communities. Hey Cassie. Hey, Caitlin. Hi, creepy people. Hey! This is PNW, Huns and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, also haunted stuff. Sometimes. You know, kind of whatever we're feeling. Come Saturday at about three o'clock. Holy shit. Wow.

Any who's all. In where? In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom.

In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. You know kind of whatever we're feeling come Saturday at about three o'clock. Holy shit Wow Anyhoo's all in where in the Pacific Northwest? It's the PNW if you're nasty So you gotta tell them what the PNW means or they just won't know they just they'll help How could they know go through the whole episode and just get to the end and learn nothing and they'll just be like the whole time

I was like, what is PNW even mean? Oh my god. Yeah that's honestly it's it's one of the greater issues facing facing facing our nation today. Our country. Our country. Forget about those deportations. It's the PNW. That's what's on everyone's mind. I just really want to know what that stands for. Kailin, you got to stop getting so motherfucking political up in here. Honestly, it's probably not going to stop. Please don't ever stop.

You just, you be you. It's almost like we actually spend a lot of time and money creating the show and then The content that you consume from it is free So, you know, it's your choice unless you join our patreon Yeah, that's right. Then you get ad free and then you can because technically they're not free because you do pay for them with your Ear holes by listening to other ads. That's true. That's true. And that is a hell of a price to pay, let me tell ya.

It is, if you wanna give us real money. As someone who just paid the price for YouTube videos of pronunciations for the most random things earlier today, honestly. Yeah, we pay YouTube a lot of money with our ears, our ear holes. Oh boy. Oh boy. Well anyways, um, so I guess should we, oh, we forgot the one thing. What do we do at the end of our episode? We do a little tarot at the end of our episode for a little deeper insight into our topic. Are you ready to get into a story? I guess so. Okay, great I'm here that makes one of us Well, hopefully you guys are ready. You're here too. We're all in this together. Let's go

Did you know that the city of Portland hasn't recorded a single homicide this month and And as we record this, it is April. I did not know that. Well, that's as of April 21st this year anyway. So April 26th, 2025 at 3.08 PM. In the month of March, seven people were killed in Portland, a total of 10 so far for the calendar year. Last summer, our neighboring state to the north was reporting a downward trend, sort

of. The state of Washington, not Canada, just to be clear, they are not actually a state. As of recording, they are still very much a nation independent from the US. Round of applause? Anyone? Round of applause? Golf ball? It is and always will be the Gulf of Mexico. I was literally thinking the same thing. Weird. Okay the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs published its annual data on crimes reported statewide for 2023. Their report revealed that there were a total of 376 murders recorded throughout the state of Washington last year. 377? 376. Why did I? You just said it.

377? But still, it's like one a day. Over one a day. How many days are there in a year? 365? Yes. Like over one a day though. That's just crazy.

Yep. This represented a 5.8% drop from the previous year, which seems positive until compared to another statistic. It also represents an 81.1% increase over figures dating back to 2019. So 81.1% increase reported in 2023 compared to 2019. Wow. What is happening? Well, I think there's one thing that was happening in that span that explains a lot. Oh, am I like forgetting something big?

The great panini. Oh, oh, well, duh. Okay, Cassie, I just like try to put that out of my head. Yes. Because as we know, 2020 was in fact the longest decade ever. Uh, horrific and sad and yeah. Yeah. And when I say 2020, I don't mean the decade 2020 to future date 2030. I mean, 2020, the year, the standalone year, felt like an entire decade.

Was this an increase in murders though? Or just deaths in general? But like, this is, this is homicides. People be COVID murdering out there? Yeah. Well, think about it. Shelter in place, which was very necessary, but if you are living with someone who is violent. That was one of those like really tough things about it. Yeah. Violent offenses rose steadily in 2020 and hit their peak in 2022.

In terms of violent crime overall, the month where these so-called crimes against persons occurred was May. Right around the corner. May the 4th be with you. Aww. I've always heard April showers bring May flowers, but apparently that's not all. Notably, February was the month where such crimes were the least frequent. Valentine's Day. I guess. I just assume that winter, kind of like, you know, the summer heat brings out the worst in a lot of people, myself included, in a super non-murdery way in my case.

But no, everyone's just feeling the love of Valentine's Day. Is it, I do have a question. Is it just because there's like a couple of days missing that makes it the least? Could be, could be. I think that's a very valid point, to be honest. Just those couple of days, anything could happen, you know? Yeah. I skimmed over quite a few sections of this report and it breaks down a lot of different statistics

related to crime, obviously. That's the whole point. In the state of Washington for 2023. And it's very interesting to see the data points, certainly. I don't know. I have thoughts and feelings, obviously. You do? I know, it's weird.

It's like, that's why I have this fucking microphone or something. You do? I know, it's weird. It's like that's why I have this fucking microphone or something. I don't know. Who knows? Why are we here? Today, we're covering a story that's as devastating as it is important to tell. It's a case that highlights what happens when warning signs are ignored and victims fall through the cracks of a system meant to protect them.

It's the kind of story that makes you wanna sit with the weight of it for a minute, a moment, maybe just the one, because it's pretty heavy. We'll be walking through the lives and tragic deaths of Michelle Melendez and her seven-year-old daughter, Layla Stewart. Layla. Layla.

I love that name. I know. This is not an easy story, but it's one that matters. And I think, I hope that everybody know this applies to every story that I talk about, but it isn't just a true crime story. It's a timeline of heartbreak, a story of a mother, a daughter, and a system that seemed to have every opportunity to prevent their deaths and didn't. What happened to them is horrifying, but what's equally chilling is

is horrifying, but what's equally chilling is how much could have been prevented. We tell ourselves that we have systems in place to help prevent these tragedies in our communities. Let's start at the beginning. Michelle Melendez was 27. She was a mother, a daughter, and a friend. Lela Stewart was bright, funny, with her whole life ahead of her.

I mean, she was seven years old, so literally her whole life ahead of her. I feel like seven's like a fun age. It is. They start to get like their own little personality, like for real. Yeah, yeah. And she definitely seemed like she had

a really fun personality. The morning of March 12th, 2023, was the last time Michelle and Layla were seen alive before both vanished. The last person they were seen with was Kirkland C. Warren, a man that Michelle had a complicated relationship with. They stopped by a friend's house on northeast Lewitt Loop. That friend told police that Warren dropped Layla off there temporarily before leaving again. When they came back about three hours later,

Miche, well, she was passed out in the front passenger seat of Warren's Dodge Charger. At least that's what he said. The friend said she looked unconscious. It was a brief interaction. Warren just went into the home, picked up Layla and then drove off. And that was the last time anyone saw either of them.

I feel like you should be going to a hospital if someone is unconscious in your car, no? The consensus was that he was just trying to pass it off like, oh, she's just like hung over. Okay, all right. That was the vibe. She was just passed out. Okay, I'm thinking like, like faint, like she's out cold.

Like she's had a medical episode. Yeah, and you're just like picking up the daughter. Like, no, like go to the hospital. Right. Okay, okay, if she's just like passed out from drinking or something. Right. Not as concerning, but this is still concerning. Yeah, I would say, yeah.

Pretty early in the morning for... Yeah. Yeah, well, I. Pretty early in the morning for... Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've been drunk in the morning. I mean, sure. Who hasn't? Probably people that don't drink, but you know. Now, here's what you need to know about Kirkland C. Warren,

other than that I developed a nickname for him. And I don't think it's particularly clever, other than that I developed a nickname for him. And I don't think it's particularly clever, but I had fun with it. I can't wait to hear it. Soggy hot dog. Kirkland. Do they have soggy hot dogs?

Well, what's it called? Costco. Costco? No, but he's a soggy hot dog. I would never get a hot dog there. It's always chicken bake. What do you go there for? Chicken bake. Who's getting a hot dog? Who are you? Yeah. Anyways, he was a man with a documented history of violence,

a pending murder charge in Arkansas. In Arkansas. So he moved. Sure did. Yeah. Wonder why yeah I know you know it's weird wait can you if they're what are you allowed to leave the state big question doesn't it yeah it's almost like don't we have systems in place for this I have questions uh-huh yeah I bet Also, there was an active no-contact order from the court. This didn't come out of nowhere. This started years ago.

November 27th, 2017, Warren shot Curtis Urquhart in the head with a.22 caliber pistol. He later admitted to the shooting, telling police it was self-defense. He dumped the body in a ditch. On December 12th, he was arrested. On December 13th, he posted Bond and walked free. I can't get the words out because I'm just so very confused. Yeah. Yeah.

So it turns out you actually can very easily jump bond and move to a different state when they let you out on bond. But murder, murder, killing, and you dumped a body. Which he actually had admitted to. He's like, never denied that I killed the guy. Never denied that I tampered with the forensic evidence related to the corpse. I'm just saying it's self-defense.

I feel like it can be self-defense, but it can't be both. This is one of those things where two things can't be true. You can't try to cover up your self-defense murder Like if it's self-defense you call the fucking police and be like I killed someone great. No, it looks really bad And how bad how do you how do you let them out? Yeah, I feel like maybe in that situation Like maybe we hold on to him for a minute. Just you know, you know, I'm in our paws fast forward to Vancouver, Washington.

In 2020, so this is literally three years later. He shouldn't be there. He shouldn't even be there. Nope, he sure shouldn't. And yet here we are. In 2020, Warren was investigated for possessing a stolen firearm, which doesn't seem like a red flag for somebody who already has been murdered charges. He was arrested for this?

Investigated. Investigated, okay. Investigated is the word that all of my source material used. I hear words wrong sometimes. Sorry, guys. No, no, no. And I think sometimes in your brain, you go, investigated, and then you think like, well, surely they arrested him. Well, surely, no. And I think sometimes in your brain, you go investigate it and then you think like, well, surely they at risk. Well, surely because he's murdered somebody

and he has a gun. And don't call me Shirley. Okay, in 2021, he lied on a firearm application stating that he wasn't under indictment. We already know. He was. Getting back to 2023, getting back to 2023, which is the future from, you know. The present future.

Yeah. You know. The present future. He was facing active domestic violence charges, stemming from a shooting at Michelle's apartment back in December. Whoa. It took until February for law enforcement to corroborate her story with other witnesses. But later that same month, Miche recants.

Oh no. He got his little meaty claws into her, didn't he? I think that feels safe to assume. And actually, I don't really even have to assume. She says she made it up, blaming mental health and drug issues. And at this point, she pleads for Warren not to be arrested. Investigators note the shift as suspish. And despite her protest, Warren was arrested March 2nd. Well, that's good at least. Yep. March 3rd, he appears in court facing domestic

violence assault, drive-by shooting, harassment, and possession of a stolen firearm. A risk assessment gives him a 31 on a scale that only goes to 18. It's actually, it's gonna get worse. So, I don't know whether to let you process or... How does it even happen though, if it's only goes to 18? I think it begs the question. It's confusing and... The scale is horseshit. Yeah. I didn'ts the question. It's confusing and- The scale is horseshit. Yeah. I didn't want the salmon.

Prosecutors say he is an extreme risk to Miche. They ask for $100,000 bail. And it's granted, a no contact order is issued. On the very same day he's released, Warren calls Miche twice from jail. What's no contact mean from jail? You're still... Okay. Honestly, as infuriating as that is, it's like, great, stay stupid.

This will be used in a court of law later. He says, there is no way I'm going back to Arkansas. I mean, I wouldn't go back there either, but you can go other places. Sure. No, but I think it's important that he specifically said, there's no way I'm going back to Arkansas, which, you know, if the call was monitored in real time,

that would have been like, why? What about Arkansas? Because I killed someone there and they want to, you know, put me on trial for it. But for some reason they let me out. Yeah. Warren didn't want to go back to Arkansas, not even a little.

In jail house phone calls to Michelle, he blamed her for his problems, demanded she figure out how to get the domestic violence charges dropped and made it clear he was spiraling. And he post bail and is released. March 6th. March 6th.

This is three days later. Wow. Wow. Warren appears in court again for violating the no contact order. Police ask for GPS monitoring. The judge sets $10,000 bail and approves the monitor, but it's never applied. Why? Which is why all of my source material states

with such disdain that this man was not under GPS monitoring. March 7th, the case is dismissed. And March 8th, he walks free again. Like, I just don't understand how this could happen multiple times to somebody. I mean, it's happened before, but yeah. Yeah. Like, I just don't get it. Yeah. It continues to not make sense. The math, not math-ing.

You know what else doesn't make sense? My fucking wine glass is empty. Oh boy, yeah, mine's almost empty too. All of this feels ominous in light of the fact that no one had seen or heard from Miche and Leila recently and such a short time after his release. I'm scared for them. I mean, you already know ultimately how this ends

and it's still kind of like, what's gonna happen? Sometimes I like to pretend I don't know what's gonna happen in the end and I just like to live in the moment. Okay, well, the following moments are moments that you may feel less like inhabiting. Days passed. It was Michelle's mother that reported them missing on March 18th, six days after they

disappeared and just 10 days after Warren was released. That same day, she found Michelle's car parked near the Louit Loupe home of their friend. That's less than a mile from the apartment that she shared with her seven-year-old daughter in the Springfield Meadows complex. Oh, I don't know why that sounds so cute. In a Springfield, you know? Springfield Meadows. Can I hold onto that just like for a second longer?

Inside their apartment? Empty. Except for their dog. Doggy! Doggy! I think doggy was okay. Okay. Yeah.

I don't have a lot of additional information about the dog. You just have to... Because doggy. I just... I hope the doggy was okay. Yeah, I think the doggy was okay. Yeah, I think the doggy was okay. The very next day, March 19th, Warren was arrested at his own home on Northeast 109th Avenue. Police charged him with multiple offenses, tampering with a witness, violating no contact

orders, and more. But when investigators searched his Dodge Charger, they found something much worse. Worse than a Dodge Charger? I think yes, worse than a Dodge Charger, but the contents were also worse. In the front and back seats, there was blood, 22 caliber shell casings. They also recovered children's clothing that matched what Leila had last been seen wearing

and Michelle's purse with her ID still inside. I don't like the clothing. Nope, and you're gonna like it a lot less. Some additional details about our timeline. March 11th, Michelle, Leila, and Warren stay at a friend's home. Early the next morning, the friend sees Michelle passed out in the passenger seat.

So this is the day they went missing. That morning, she is unclothed from the waist down. Did the friend know or? Yep. The friend, this is their reporting. Okay. Wow. That would be like, like to see. Which is odd, but as we know, Warren collects Leila and they drive off. The following day is later identified as the date that the mother and daughter went missing. Just the day before Ms. Shea's mother reports her daughter and grandchild missing

because they missed a regularly scheduled video call, an Arkansas judge revokes Warren's bond in the 2017 case. Holy shit. So he's just literally been running wild across the countryside for literal years. Yeah. Why did Arkansas do that? Unclear. Okay.

I'm like, did they hear about that? Like, how did they hear about this? At a certain point, there was like cooperation between law enforcement of Arkansas and the state of Washington. Oh, how? I don't know at the exact point where those dots were connected, but I have to assume that feels like, maybe.

Well, that's great. Like, I feel like that's really good for them to be in contact about this man. I mean, granted, Michellee and Leila hadn't officially been reported missing at that point. This is the day before they are reported missing. Right, but he got into some shenanigans before that though. Yes, correct, yes.

Bad shenanigans, not good shenanigans. No, someone does not have the luck of the Irish. And I'm glad he doesn't deserve any leprechaun magic. No, he doesn't. Not at all. When law enforcement performs a wellness check on the 18th, there's no sign of them. They're like, weird.

So they're like being reported missing and the wellness check says, oh, oopsies, they may actually be totes missing. Still missing. Yeah. This next part really drives home some upsetting facts. First, is this man Houdini? He is constantly being released, seemingly by magic.

Who? Make it make sense. Who is this? On March 20th, prosecutors ask for either no bail or for $500,000. Man, this whole money and bail thing, the more you talk about it. It's pretty upsetting. The more I don't like it. And while I would really love to go diving down the rabbit hole that is you know the classist system of oppression so

predominant in our legal system I'm gonna keep on moving. It's just obvious I feel like you don't even need to know it's just obvious. No. I feel like if you don't yeah if you don't inherently understand how, it's just obvious. They want money. I feel like if you don't, yeah, if you don't inherently understand how people are being penalized for being poor by being ultimately driven further into poverty, then I have to assume that you're walking around like, la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la. Anyways, the judge postpones that hearing, you know, the bail one, at the hearing the

following day, the prosecutors up their ask for bail to a million dollars and request GPS monitoring. And you want to know what? Did he actually get it this time? This time it's granted. Oh, wow. I feel like it's maybe a little too late. Like a little too late.

And it's not even, I just feel like GPS monitoring, people totally misunderstand. That is, again, like the jailhouse phone calls, that's not like being monitored in real time. It's not like dysterbia. Right, yeah. Okay. I did not like dysterbia. Right. Yeah. Okay.

I did kind of always wonder how that works because I'm like, no one's like manning the phones 24 seven. Like, no, I mean, and every jurisdiction can potentially be a little bit different in terms of how they handle that administratively and just like from an operational side of things. But again, not how that works. Right. Like you don't leave the zone and an alarm goes off and then the police come and get you.

No, just like what? And their response time is never going to be three minutes or less for something like that. Yeah. Uh, then on the morning of March 22nd, a passerby walking down a private road near Southeast Wooding and Sunset View in Washougal made a 911 call. They thought they saw what looked like two life-sized mannequins at the bottom of a steep embankment lodged in thick brush near Gibbons Creek. It wasn't mannequins. It's never mannequins. I mean, I think there was that one time where

it was a mannequin and that was like, you know, on the side of the highway and that was really messed up. But this is not that. It was Michelle and Leila. Their bodies, partially unclothed, bore the marks of multiple gunshot wounds suspected to have been fired from a.22 caliber firearm that their autopsies would later confirm as the cause of death. Miche's was a close-range contact wound, is a different way of saying essentially execution style, while Layla had been shot twice, which begs the question, why are you double tapping a seven year old? And I think, I think we have the answer. Also horrifyingly lab results would ultimately confirm

Warren's DNA was present on Leila's body. Yeah, I kind of feel like I knew that was coming, but I don't, I don't. Yeah. This is a situation where some sort of sexual violence This is a situation where some sort of sexual violence occurred to a minor, and there are not a lot of details available about that because she's a minor. I'm okay with that. I don't need the details.

Yeah. No, nobody wants that. But ultimately, I hope that this reads to everyone that may encounter this man in the future. I hope that reads as, he raped a little girl. Yeah. That's how it sounds. Yeah, sure does. I don't need the details. Following this discovery, when detectives asked him whether he thought their bodies had been found, Warren said, I don't know, before adding, I hope not. Well, sounds non-committal, right? I mean, that could be something that you say, like, I mean, I don't know. I hope not. Yeah. Like, I hope there were no bodies.

I hope they're alive. Uh-huh. Yeah. However, I'm gonna guess based on tone and a lot of other context that I have, not how they were reading that. Also this. However, when he was shown aerial photos of the site

where the bodies were discovered, he ended the interview and requested an attorney. Why? Begs the question. Yeah. Almost like, oh shit. Like they know where they're at. Yes.

Oh, that's like a dead giveaway because they at that time they hadn't found them yet. Right? No. Or wait. They had aerial photos of where the bodies were found. Oh, okay, okay, okay. And this is one of those classic situations of like, they're like, we're gonna go in cold and we're going to give him a little piece.

I see. We're not gonna let him know. And maybe they didn't know. Maybe it wasn't fully confirmed yet. They go in and they are like, okay, we're going to see how he reacts. Right. Because he didn't know that they knew, that he knew that they knew.

Right. It's a... You know? No, I mean, it's honestly, they want to see how a suspect reacts to certain information because organically, like, your reaction is going to say a lot about what you know. There's so many implications. So he did the wrong thing, but like the right thing.

Yeah. No, I mean like stay stupid, you know? Yeah. Oh man. Wow. Them Trixie cops. Sometimes. They Trixie, I'm Trixie Cops sometimes. Say Trixie. According to court documents, Warren would later tell police that he and Maché got into an argument over his second cell phone and that she accidentally shot Layla twice before turning the gun on herself.

Because of course, if you killed your own child totally by accident in the middle of a heated argument, of course, what else would you do? You would just shoot yourself in the head. Right, right, right. But also, and I can see the question on your face, I can see it all over your face hole, which is why my next sentence is,

why would a man have a second cell phone? He might be tempted to ask. Oh, I didn't need to ask why he has a second cell phone. Do you need to ask why? I don't know. I mean, I actually, there are, I don't want to say, it's not exactly a plethora, but I can think of a few reasons. Other bitches or drug deals.

What's the other reason? Very smart. Like, there's two choices. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, did I forget to mention that this whole ass time Warren has Actually been married. He has a whole ass wife Kirkland What the fuck you're married? Yeah, is she live in Arkansas? Nope.

Oh. Well, actually, I don't know. No one cares. The only other thing we're going to learn about her is coming up shortly. Yeah. So, speaking of degrees of shitball, his version of events was that Miche was the one holding the.22 pistol he gave her for protection, and that he was under the influence of weed,

mushrooms, and cocaine at the time. Oh. Feels like a super weird combo. If I'm gonna... Sounds like a party. I mean, it's the entirety of a party in one man's system. But it's like he couldn't decide. He's like, I was on this and this and this.

Like he couldn't just be. I mean, I think sometimes people are just like, oh yeah, the multiplier effect. And they're like, oh yeah, then I'll totally, you know, this is how I get off Scott Freed. I just tell him I was like pumped full of all kinds of drugs. And then it's fine.

And it's like, I don't think you understand the legal definition of like, culpability. Like, does he think because I'm on so many of these drugs, I can't shoot a gun? Or that is somehow you're less responsible. So I feel like for a lot of these situations, it seems like they think that makes them less culpable. I don't know. Maybe pick a different drug like meth or what's the one that people

that somebody took that you would like eat people's faces off. Oh, that's bath salts. Yeah. I don't know what that is. Say that one. I don't know. PCP is the one where, like, there was such a moral panic about it because people were, like, jumping off roofs. And there have been instances where allegedly people have become really aggressive. Right.

Do your research, dude. Weed, shrooms, and coke. I mean, maybe the coke. I don't know. But, like, pick a different drug. coke. I don't know, but like, pick a different drug. Yeah. I don't know. I'm just saying I don't... Because it's obviously not true. It also really doesn't matter because all three of those still wouldn't...

It doesn't... It doesn't fucking make sense. You still did it. Yeah. Yeah, no. Here's the thing is even if they believe that nonsense, I mean, now you just cop to, you know, being under the influence, which really is neither here nor there. He said he tried to overdose, but threw the pills up, which, which one of these is pills? I'm sorry.

And instead fled to his wife's house, which makes me believe she did not reside in Arkansas, where he hid for a few days. As for his wife, Monet Tyler Warren, she was later convicted of embezzling $24,500 from a credit union where she worked. That's it? Yeah. And I will say, I know. My girl.

Aim higher, you know? If you're going to get caught $24,000. Yeah, that's not even going to cover your legal fees. No. I don't know. I don't know how much legal fees are. Like don't do crime, but like also if you're going to do crime, maybe aim higher. I don't know.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Kind of like, wow, was it worth it? That was a rhetorical question, cause no, nor. Okay, so this is the part that I actually kind of hate, and I remember seeing this in real time. I remember seeing, and it's harder to find kind of some of the icky sentiment now,

but there were some chatterings. It was a little bit like a Reddit. Oh, OK. It was a little bit like a subreddit for a minute there. OK, about this, because prosecutors say the money was transferred to an account controlled by Miche, allegedly at Warren's direction. by Miche, allegedly at Warren's direction. So essentially what happened is like kind of early days, there was speculation at certain points about like,

oh, is this some sort of conspiracy? And like, oh, okay. Even that classic, just super gross kind of narrative forming about like, oh, well, she's just a person of color who like stole. So like she's less dead now. Her and her child don't matter because they may or may not have been involved in some sort of a criminal act, which by the way, let's just say so, so clearly that even if she had been the mastermind of it, not Les Dead, this is a child. Also, she is so clearly

a victim of an abusive relationship. Do you think that was her choice? Right. He's contacting her from prison with a no-contact order. Like, there's... And some of this stuff, I get why these points are brought up and why, you know, before we know maybe that they're dead. Before we know all of the backstory, you might go, ooh, that doesn't look good. Right, yeah.

But in hindsight, I'm like, okay, let's pretend it's Gabi for a minute. Right, yeah. What do you think that reads like in her case? I just, I struggle. I struggle with the framing in this situation because I haven't come right out and said it, but Michelle Melendez was a person of color,

as was her daughter, obviously. And I don't like the characterization in some instances related to a crime that somebody else was committing. I mean, to be clear, there's no money for her to then, you know, be the receiver of without somebody else having embezzled it. Right. And like, does she, like, obviously, I don't know if we know,

but like, did she even know about this or was it just put in her name? It's hard to say. It's hard to say. I don't know that that was ever determined. And again- Even if she did, who fucking cares? Yes, not less dead. Yeah. Not less dead.

Which maybe that's the t-shirt I want. Yeah. Police officially charged Warren with two counts of first degree murder on March 31st, which is a pretty quick turnaround. I was gonna say, wait a minute, March? We're still in March. We're still in the month of March, yeah.

In April, the prosecution stated they would pursue aggravated murder, punishable by life without parole, but this case never made it to trial. Excuse me? by life without parole, but this case never made it to trial. Excuse me? Yeah, which is actually, it's one of the few positive surprises, maybe. Months later in September, just days before the trial,

Warren changed his plea to guilty. Well, sort of. For the second degree murder for Maché, an aggravated murder of Leila. He entered an Alford plea for first degree child molestation. For anyone unfamiliar with the term, an Alford plea essentially allows a defendant to maintain their innocence but assert that the state has enough evidence to obtain a conviction. I know I've heard that term before and I don't know where,

I don't know if it was from you or. I think probably one of the better known examples of sort of this strategy, at least legally, not at all the same situation, obviously, is in the West Memphis Three. Okay. So, super, in my opinion, not a guilty person, but someone who has ultimately decided that I just don't want to die in prison. Oh, yeah.

I think, in this case, I'm not sure that the finer points of an Alford plea would matter much to his potential new roommates, but I can see why that strategy might have made sense for someone facing the charges in potential sentence that he was. Again, super don't think his new roommates are gonna be swayed by the fact that it was an Alford plea. I think... I kind of forgot about that. Yeah.

I think if they know what you were charged with, good luck with that. At sentencing, the courtroom was packed. Family, friends, and supporters wearing shirts with Michelle and Leila's photos were present. The judge said, the air in this courtroom hangs heavy with the imponderable suffering of the family and friends of the victims. Warren declined to speak and he showed, I mean, really no emotion as he was led away. Every single photo of this man is stone fucking cold.

I don't know that I'd want to see, like, anything else, because it's like it would feel like disingenuous. Like, you killed this person, so I don't want to see fucking emotion from you. I disingenuous. I'm like, you killed this person. So I don't want to see fucking emotion from you. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. There's no good way to see that.

I guess. No, but I think it really cements that I just don't think that there's remorse. Yeah. Officer Tanya Wollstein read family statements. Officer Tanya Wollstein read family statements. Leila's last moments were filled with fear and suffering that no child should experience. So she also read statements at a vigil for both of them.

I felt like seeing the photos of her at the vigil, it was really hard to see someone who I'm sure, through the course of this investigation, it's like she feels like she knows them, but to see pictures from the vigil, it was just such a, it's hard to even put into words. You could just really see how deeply affected people were by this case. And there were so many people showing up to these, to the vigil and, you know, in the courtroom that it's like, they don't know them personally, but the impact of this case. Layla's father, Javante Stewart, said,

"'The impacts of their death have left me "'and others here today struggling to find a way forward. "'And the grief is something I carry with me "'every moment of my life.'" This case had touched a lot of lives, people that knew the victims, and like I said, I mean, many that hadn't. In 2022, the CDC reported that over half of female homicide victims were killed by current

or former partners. Over half? Over half. And this is where we get the phrase, it's always the husband. That's what I was thinking. The husband did it. And according to the National Network to End Domestic Violence, one in three women killed by intimate partners had reached out to police or services beforehand.

That breaks my heart. This wasn't a system error. This was a system pattern. And as much as there were things that we can all point to and say, this is the part of the system that we hate and we don't understand and it needs to be better, ultimately, we can't really lay this at the feet of the system either, because for all the things that we

have in place to try to prevent these things, there are just probably always going to be people that do things like this. the murder that occurred in Arkansas. On April 23rd, 2023, a fugitive warrant for his arrest was issued, which, as I was writing this, this particular part of the story, it was on April 23rd, 2025. What?

Yeah. And I'd already spent a good chunk of time on this case, but I was like, Oh, that's fucking spooky. That is so weird. Fucking spooky. That is so weird. Looking at this, like, through the month of April, and seeing all of these parallels to, like, months just very recently gone by, and then also finding stuff that related to, like, the crime stats from the report related to February and May.

And it just felt like it was like this chunk of time in recent history. It was like, everything felt like, oh my God, this is like two years to the day later. The whole timeline. Ooh, spooky. I don't know, it gave me chills. And this is only April, what? What's today?

April 26th. Yeah. I don't really have an eloquent way to end this. I'm gonna read this next statement and then we'll move on to something that feels a little less heavy. We'll do our tarot. If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, please don't wait.

Help is available. You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE. That's 7233. Text START to 887-88, or visit thehotline.org for 24-7 confidential support. You are not alone and you deserve to be safe. I don't know if I thought that was the problem. It really fucks me up.

It does. It's the whole time though that you're saying that, I'm thinking there are some people who can't even do that. They don't even feel safe enough to do that. Or they're so watched that they can't text a line or fucking call a hotline or something. It's so scary. We've talked about cases where, you know, where that is the situation.

And I think it's always really hard with cases that involve domestic violence because people don't understand sometimes how coercive and controlling and manipulative those situations can be. And they just, it's not like they just like spring on you either. They like grow on you and they, to where you're like, you don't even realize half the time, like what's happening. You don't really realize it.

No. It's the pots slowly heating up before it's boiling. Right. I think we'll probably try to put that in the show notes as well. Well, should we do some tarot? I think we should. Okay, all yours. My energy's in there.

Okay. She is sh in there. Okay. She is shuffling the deck. I won't tell you what she just did off camera. Her hair is a beautiful rose gold. Last time you were like, her hair is a beautiful chestnut. To me, because I was like, describe what I'm doing. It was great. I loved it.

We get this one all the time. Oh my goodness. Okay. Seven of Swords. I forget. Okay. For some people who may not listen all the time, we are using our PNW deck,

which is not a traditional tarot deck. So the imagery is a little bit different on it. And I feel like sometimes we just kind of start talking about it and we don't say like, hey, this is the PNW deck that we're using. Because we also have a YouTube now, which shows our altar and everything and the cards we're using. So sometimes we just kind of assume you can see it,

and then we don't explain what's going on. Listen, if you want to know what's going on, then... We're sorry. Yeah, we fucking don't know what's happening ever. I don't know. So, seven of swords. Our keywords are... Uncertainty.

Illusion. Impetuousness, stealth, cunning, and strategy. Yeah, it's got that little fox on it. So that's like the weasel. I always call it a fox, it's a weasel. It does kind of look like a fox at a glance though. It's a weasel stealing eggs out of a robin's nest. Such a dick move. Which is like, kind of like what he did.

A little bit, yeah, yeah. The imagery for me immediately made sense. A baby from a nest, basically. Great. Literally. Okay. Some decks, including the Rider-Waite-Smith Aquarian and Gilded Tarot, show a man carrying away five swords, leaving two stuck in the ground beside him. Behind him, excuse me.

Wow. Reading is hard. When this card appears, it suggests you're facing a challenge or problem and must use caution to overcome potential danger. The Upright 7 suggests a tricky situation in which things are not completely clear. You may be formulating a plan but don't have all the information you need, or the plan may be risky and could backfire. This card can represent surreptitious action and advises diplomacy. I feel like in this situation that really... What is diplomacy?

I mean, it's kind of like trying to make peace and trying to be... I mean, trying to be a peacemaker, but the surreptitious action, that's what gets me. Because it's like how can you adequately be the peacemaker in a situation where people are behaving in ways that are underhanded,

that are manipulative. You can't. I mean, you canulative. You can't. I mean you can try. In a reading about money, The Seven warns that you probably shouldn't go ahead with a financial idea or investment you're considering. Like embezzlement. Oh. Perhaps the risks are too high or the deal may be shaky or shady. Yeah. Like embezzlement. 24,000. 24,000.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, 24,500. Wow. And 50 cents. Oh my god. And 50 cents. If the reading is about your job, this card says, Don't engage in direct confrontation.

Work behind the scenes to get results. The Upright 7 can also indicate restlessness. Perhaps your job lacks the diversity or stimulation you desire. Consider making a change. In a reading about love, you're advised to seek compromise and use diplomacy, rather than arguing with a partner, but don't just go along to get along.

Oh, wow. That was for sure when she like took back her statement about, was it a shooting? Like he like shot somebody or something, right? Yeah, it was a, well, I mean, it's unclear to me at least in my research what exactly or who exactly he may have been firing upon. But given the fact that he was charged for essentially what amounts to like drive-by? Oh, Jesus.

I don't know. And to be honest, I don't know that it adds a lot of value to the case, which should be centered on the victims. That I was like, listen, I can pull at this thread, but It's not about that. Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't change But it totally like reminds me of that how she like read recount recounted her statement is that what that recanted recant? Yeah, that's not the right word. Yeah, I did her statement. Yeah recounting is like Almost like recollection. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, recounting is like almost like recollection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're similar words, leave me alone.

They are, I mean, they sound alike. Sometimes this card shows leaving a relationship that doesn't meet your intellectual or spiritual needs. I don't think he met any of her needs. Oh my God. Extra excerpt is focus. Be focused and thorough in planning your strategy. As Barbara Moore writes in the Gilded Tarot Companion, be on guard or one of those swords he left behind will find its way into his back. Oh, right.

And he basically, like, he left enough evidence to get himself convicted. Yep. And, you know, OK, listen, maybe this is irresponsible to actually vocalize. But I will say, Maybe this is irresponsible to actually vocalize. But I will say, leaving behind the forensic evidence that leads to an Alford plea for what you did to a child, that's one way to get shanked. He's not dead yet though, is he? Nope.

Not to my knowledge. I feel like that would have made the news. There's one more extra excerpt. Okay. His Holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama. Tragedy should be utilized as a source of strength. No matter what sort of difficulties, how painful experience is, if we lose our hope, that's our real disaster.

I feel like that's just like really hits just in general right now for the world. Yeah. I feel like talking about this through the lens of, you know, the political landscape recently and thinking about how quickly certain populations, basically anyone who's not a white cis male could be set back, essentially, 55 years. That's just a really important sentiment right now. I know I've read the little interpretation from the book that comes with the PNW deck, but let me just see, because you never know.

Even though you've read something a thousand times, there still could be a part or a word that just totally connects. This is why we hold the same card all the time because we have the same type of themes. I mean, shit. I mean, if the shoe fits, Cinderella. So it's an Olympic short-tailed weasel.

So that's, isn't like Olympic- Olympia. Yeah, with like Washington. Yeah. Ooh, we did, we have read this so recently. Yeah. Oh, we did. We have read this so recently. Listen, everybody's got to eat. And I feel like when we were talking about this, we were kind of talking about the same

sort of themes. I mean, who would have thunk, right? Oh boy. It ain't my fault. Mama and Papa Robin decided to fly off at the same time. Oh God. Oh, God. See, I wouldn't call that a wise decision. I know they're not going to want to hear this, but when you think about it,

this one's on them. Look at how nature works. It's opportunistic. And I know an opportunity when I see it. That's like typical fucking. Oh, God. Like abusive. Yeah. Manipulator. Yeah. Shut. Anyway, if I didn't swipe these eggs, somebody else would have. That's like typical fucking, like abusive manipulator shit. Anyway, if I didn't swipe these eggs,

somebody else would have. Anybody could have been waiting in the leaves, still in silent as death, watching that nest all afternoon. In still in silent as death is just, ugh. I hate it. Anybody could have deftly climbed the tallest tree, swung out on the rickety bow, and dove neatly into the nest's cup without so much as scuffing a single delicious egg.

I mean, eggs in this economy? Don't be scuffing them bitches. So what if I got there first? Don't blame me for playing a game and winning. What do you want me to do? Starve? It's just like you let me out of jail. Like that's your fault. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and yes, yes and no. Yes. Yes and no. It's really yucky and I hate it. I know. Have a creepy ass day.

We'll see you next Tuesday. Scrambled eggs anyone? Goal for it, Mia Ham. You missed my hilarious sports and joke. Wait, what did you say? You said go for it. Yeah, cause when you said go for it, it sounds like goal for it. And it was, so I said, goal for it.

Like goal. Like a goalie. Yeah. And I was like, goal for it. Like goal. Like a goalie. Yeah. And I was like, goal for it, Mia Ham. I don't know what that means. She's a soccer player. Oh, I don't soccer. I barely know her. I am a dad on the inside.

Okay. Oh my God. Jesus Christ. Thanks for listening. Visit sinspod.co slash subscribe for exclusive bonus content and to listen ad free. Remember to like and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and threads at sins and survivors. If you're enjoying the podcast, and threads at Sins and Survivors.

If you're enjoying the podcast, please leave us a review on your podcast platform of choice. You can contact us at questions at sinsandsurvivors.com. If you or someone you know is affected by domestic violence or needs support, please reach out to local resources or the National Domestic Violence Hotline. A list of resources is available on our website, sinsandsurvivors.com. Sins and Survivors, a Las Vegas true crime podcast, is research written and produced by your hosts,

Sean and John. The information shared in this podcast is accurate at the time of recording. If you have questions, concerns, or corrections, please email us. Links to source material for this episode can be found on our website sins and survivors.com The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast creators hosts and their guests

All individuals are innocent until proven guilty This content does not constitute legal advice Listeners are encouraged to consult with legal professionals for guidance