Sins & Survivors: A Las Vegas True Crime Podcast - Stolen Future - The Murder of Makayla Rhiner

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

A short relationship turned deadly when an ex felt entitled to more. Makayla Rhiner’s story highlights the dangers of escalating violence. Makayla was only 21 when she was killed by her ex-boyfrien...d, Brandon Michael Hanson, after a brief three-month relationship. Despite common misconceptions that domestic violence primarily affects long-term relationships, Makayla's story highlights the dangers that can arise even in short-term dating relationships, showcasing Hanson's refusal to accept their breakup and resulting in manipulative and violent behavior that ultimately led to Makayla's murder. Through interviews, court documents, and personal anecdotes, we underscore the importance of awareness and intervention in preventing domestic violence, honoring Makayla's memory, and using her story to raise awareness about the signs of abusive behavior and the devastating impact of domestic violence.http://sinspod.co/episode17sourcesDomestic Violence Resourceshttp://sinspod.co/resourcesClick here to become a member of our Patreon!https://sinspod.co/patreonVisit and join our Patreon now and access our ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content & schwag!Apple Podcast Subscriptionshttps://sinspod.co/appleWe're now offering premium membership benefits on Apple Podcast Subscriptions! On your mobile deviceLet us know what you think about the episodehttps://www.buzzsprout.com/twilio/text_messages/2248640/open_sms Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/sins-survivors-a-las-vegas-true-crime-podcast--6173686/support.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 To listen ad-free, visit Zinspod.co slash subscribe. Starting at $2.99 a month, you'll also get access to our exclusive bonus content episodes when you join through Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Thanks for supporting the show! When you think of domestic violence homicides, you might think it affects married couples or couples in long-term relationships. Maybe they're dating or living together, and like the frog in the pot, have slowly arrived in a horrible situation.
Starting point is 00:00:26 But that isn't always the case. Michaela Reiner was only 21 years old when she was confronted and murdered by someone she had only dated for three months. Like many of these cases, the murderer felt he was owed more, and it led him to murder. Hi, and welcome to Sins and Survivors, a Las Vegas true crime podcast where we focus on cases that deal with domestic violence. I'm your host, Sean, and with me, as always, is the one and only John. I'm the only John in the room. Michaela Reiner was born in Kansas on May 8th, 1996 to
Starting point is 00:01:08 Jeff Reiner and Lynn Pingel. She has one younger brother named Keegan. We've learned she was very close with her mom and brother, and there are dozens of photos of them all together just living life, having adventures, and enjoying each other's company. We'll include a link to some of those great photos in the show notes. Some of the things she loved included dancing to country music, Winnie the Pooh, Paris, where she hoped to travel one day, and her mom's banana chocolate chip muffins, which she would also share with her friends because that's the type of person she was. She was also a dog lover and had two dogs of her own named Pixie and Marble. There are photos of her with them on her memorial Facebook page, which we'll share. She talked about opening a giant dog sanctuary where she would adopt all the dogs in the world,
Starting point is 00:01:49 which I know the two of us can relate to, and probably a lot of you listening can as well. If that didn't pan out, she also had dreams of a business career, which led her to the College of Southern Nevada, where she studied business administration. She had hoped to go into construction management following in her mother's footsteps. Michaela was a smart, funny, ambitious young woman who people described as a ball of positive energy with a take-charge personality. She was intelligent, focused, and determined to succeed in both school and work. As the oldest child, and I can relate to this, she was constantly looking out for her little brother, who, as we said, she was very close with. He said she was the best friend a brother could have. At Michaela's memorial service,
Starting point is 00:02:36 her godfather, Paul Meadows, beautifully described her in three words, grace, spunk, and style. He said, Michaela was full of life. She was a ball of energy and chose to see the good in everything. In her short 21 years, she lived a lifetime. He went on to say that she saw the good in everybody. We say that about so many people, but she gave people a chance who didn't deserve a chance. In April 2016, Michaela got a job at MassMutual as an agency technology specialist and agency licensing and contracting coordinator. Her mother, Lynn, is an entrepreneur who started a successful consulting company called as an agency technology specialist and agency licensing and contracting coordinator.
Starting point is 00:03:09 Her mother, Lynn, is an entrepreneur who started a successful consulting company called McKee Company. I love that the name of the company is a combination of both her children's names. Her company, McKee Company, helps minority businesses to effectively compete for government contracts, which I think is awesome. Lynn has said that it was her children who pushed her into starting her own consulting company and that it was Michaela who encouraged her to patent her invention. Michaela and Lynn worked on that patent application together. At her memorial, her friend Freddy Lopez had a call to action for the people listening regarding domestic violence.
Starting point is 00:03:40 He said, What happened to Michaela should make everyone aware of the dangers of domestic violence. If you see something, say something. Use your eyes, use your ears, use every one of your senses because there are always warning signs. Paul, her godfather, followed up on this by saying this was the best way to pay tribute to his goddaughter's life. He said, if this message or event will bring awareness or prevention to even one case, then Michaela's life and death will not have passed in vain. We'll touch on the domestic violence angle in a bit, but there are indicators of abusive behavior that occurred after the couple was broken up, even if there was no actual domestic violence arrest before Michaela was murdered.
Starting point is 00:04:18 As always, the absence of a domestic violence arrest has no bearing on whether domestic violence is happening. Some of these behaviors included common abuser strategies such as emotional blackmail, manipulation, stalking, and harassment of Michaela, her friends, and her family before it led to murder in the summer of 2017. Brandon Michael Hansen, Michaela's ex-boyfriend, was born September 23, 1983, in Rancho Cucamonga, California. At the time of the crime, he was 33, 12 years older than Michaela. We have not been able to locate any previous criminal history for Brandon,
Starting point is 00:04:54 but that isn't to say he was free of problematic behavior, as John mentioned above. Additionally, Hanson has claimed that he was severely depressed. More on this later. Speaking of Brandon's depression, this week we speak to Kenna from Diagnosing a Killer in our bonus content of the week. Here she is with her sister to tell us about their podcast, which you should all go check out and subscribe to after you're done listening here. Hello.
Starting point is 00:05:20 Hello. Welcome to our new podcast, Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Koel. And I'm Kenna. In this podcast, myself, along with my sister Kenna, deep dive into true crime stories with a focus on psychology. Our goal in creating this podcast is to break the stigma surrounding mental illness and violent crimes, educate people on what it means to be mentally ill, and bring awareness to horrific events that sometimes happen in the absence of treatment.
Starting point is 00:05:46 On Thursdays, we bring you a true crime case where we detail the subject's childhood, confirmed or suspected mental illness, and their crimes. These riveting yet infamous stories will absolutely keep you on the edge of your seat. Join Koala and I on Mondays as well when we bring you an episode that is all about psychology. Whether it's a diagnosis, event, experiment, or just something we think is cool, these episodes are sure to be educational and entertaining. We are extremely excited to discuss these topics with y'all, and we cannot wait to hear your feedback. Love you! Bye! Michaela was enrolled in the Business Administration program at the College of
Starting point is 00:06:24 Southern Nevada, and so was Hanson. They met there in a pottery class at some point and started dating briefly in early 2017. According to court documents, their relationship lasted six months, but it seems clear that was the total time they knew each other. Most other sources we have found indicate that they might have known each other that long, but they only dated for less than three months. In June of 2017, Brandon went on vacation to Japan, and during the trip, Michaela made the decision to end the relationship. In the pre-trial motions, the state asserted that Hansen believed
Starting point is 00:06:55 that Michaela had cheated on him while he was away in Japan, and he told his friends and family about this. It turns out that this was apparently projection on Brandon's part because the state also alleged that it was in fact Hanson who was guilty of cheating on Michaela while he was traveling. He had allegedly felt bad about cheating on her, claiming that it was a one-time thing and that it was fueled by drinking. This appears to be contradicted by evidence including text messages from Hanson to the woman he had cheated with. We won't be bringing her name into this as it isn't important to the case, but in the messages, it was clear that he planned to meet up with her ahead of time. And there were also messages after they slept
Starting point is 00:07:35 together in which they planned to meet up and do the same thing again. This whole situation and Brandon's constant excuses with him claiming heartbreak over the breakup with Michaela seemed to conveniently position him as the victim in the relationship. There is evidence that at some point he texted a friend of his to say that he shouldn't leave the house because he was having, quote, murderous thoughts. Unfortunately, Brandon was far from done. His next move was to attempt some classic emotional blackmail tactics, such as telling Michaela that he had cancer, which he didn't, and even threatening suicide in a call that
Starting point is 00:08:08 took place on July 4th. Michaela's new boyfriend, Moises, recalled that Michaela, being the caring person she was, spent 30 minutes on the phone with Brandon, trying to talk him out of ending his own life and urging him to get professional help. And a quick note here that if you or anyone you know are having thoughts of self-harm, there are resources available, such as the National Suicide Prevention Hotline, which you can reach by dialing 988. The following events that happened in July come from court document accounts.
Starting point is 00:08:37 In mid-July, Michaela and Moises took a trip to California, leaving Michaela's Hyundai Elantra in her assigned garage space. Previously, there had been issues with the car's very sensitive alarm going off and causing friction with Michaela's Hyundai Elantra in her assigned garage space. Previously there had been issues with the car's very sensitive alarm going off and causing friction with Michaela's neighbors. To avoid that, she left the car's trunk ajar according to Moise's testimony. She knew that if the trunk was ajar, the alarm wouldn't be armed while they were gone and therefore wouldn't disturb the neighbors. When they returned from the trip, Michaela's mother Lynn's car had been vandalized, with two tires on one side having been slashed. There was a note on the car that made it seem as if it was written by her neighbor, reading, fuck your alarm, love your neighbor.
Starting point is 00:09:16 A week later, Moises' car was vandalized, causing over $11,000 in damage. During a later interview with police, Brandon admitted to vandalizing the cars. He told police that he had learned which car belonged to Moises by following a social media link in the car's back window. Brandon admitted that he had become increasingly upset over this time period after learning on social media that Moises and Michaela had planned a trip together. They planned another trip to Cancun, which was the trigger for Brandon to want to confront Michaela about why she was dating someone else. It's clear in retrospect that Brandon's behavior was escalating and getting more and more untethered from reality. These could be seen as signs of potential violent actions, or at least that they could potentially escalate to violence. Paul, Michaela's godfather, spoke to News Channel 3
Starting point is 00:10:04 here in Las Vegas and made this point explicitly, expressing that he and other family members felt as if they could have done more. Of course they aren't at fault, but it's natural to second-guess yourself in situations like this. This is another example of the collateral damage caused by a tragedy like this. Those left behind carry the pain of their lost loved ones, and it serves as a good reminder that when you see behavior like this, you should speak up and act. It's important to know the signs On August 3rd, 2017, Moises was planning to hang out with Michaela after work, so he drove over to her apartment. She wasn't home yet and she didn't answer her phone, but Keegan was home and he
Starting point is 00:10:45 told Moises that he hadn't seen Michaela since that afternoon. They tried to call her a few more times, but then they left to run an errand together. They drove by Michaela's work, but her car wasn't in the parking lot. By this time, it was around 7.30 p.m., so they returned to the apartment complex and drove by Michaela's garage. The garage was open, and they saw Michaela lying on the ground behind her car. By this time, a neighbor was standing at the garage, calling the police. Michaela had been murdered. The scene at the garage had to have been devastating to Moises and her beloved younger brother. In court documents, the prosecution described her as lying in a pool of blood.
Starting point is 00:11:26 When the police arrived, they determined that Michaela may have been attacked from behind as she was trying to get to her car. Her cause of death was multiple stab and incised wounds. An incised wound is a cut that's typically longer than it is deep and is caused by a sharp-edged object such as a knife, razor, or piece of glass. They are characterized by clean, straight edges and bleed profusely. The police spoke with Moises, Keegan, and Michaela's other family members, and they, of course, told the police how Hansen had been vandalizing their cars and harassing Michaela. And as you might expect, Brandon Hansen became their prime suspect. Hansen voluntarily gave an interview to police on August 6th,
Starting point is 00:12:05 but he denied having anything to do with Michaela's murder. He suggested to the detectives that they look into Michaela's downstairs neighbor, who had been complaining about Michaela's car alarm going off. With the interview concluded, Hansen was allowed to leave. The police were not finished, however. Before Brandon left the interview, the police informed him they were going to search his home and his cars. And while the police were searching the car that was parked at Brandon's father's house, Brandon's father and his stepmother told the detectives that Hansen wanted to speak with officers again.
Starting point is 00:12:34 While sitting inside an unmarked police vehicle parked in front of his dad's house, Brandon told the officers that he had been severely depressed since Michaela broke up with him. He said that he had sought help from a physician, and that he had kept in touch with Michaela since the breakup, and she was aware of how upset he was. Brandon Hanson then confessed to killing Michaela, and he provided the police with extensive details about what had happened. He told the police that he had driven to Michaela's apartment, but he didn't have his phone with him because it had no battery power, so he left it behind to charge.
Starting point is 00:13:04 He parked his car outside of Michaela's apartment complex and squeezed through the metal gate to access the complex carrying his backpack, which contained a K-bar hunting knife. Michaela wasn't home, so he waited for her. When she arrived, he watched her go into the garage. While she was getting out of her car, he walked up to her and demanded an explanation about their breakup. He wanted to know why she had broken up with him and expressed that he was owed an explanation. According to Brandon, she didn't give him any explanation, but simply said she didn't want to talk to him anymore. He then pulled out the knife from his backpack and continued to demand that she explain herself as he held her at knife point. She wasn't able to provide a response that would satisfy him, so he stabbed her three times
Starting point is 00:13:45 in the neck. Michaela fell to the ground and kicked at him to get him away from her. She was also begging him to call for help. Brandon said that he couldn't find her phone to call for help before she died. He took her phone and her purse and ran to his car. Then he changed out of his bloodied shoes into different shoes that he had conveniently tucked inside his car. During the search of the house, police found a notebook in Brandon's room containing what the prosecution called several practice notes containing the phrase, fuck your alarm, love your neighbor. They also found a suicide note that listed Michaela as the reason. Hansen was booked into the Clark County Detention Center on one count of murder.
Starting point is 00:14:23 He was also charged with burglary with a deadly weapon, robbery with the use of a deadly weapon, and two counts of breaking, injuring, or tampering with a motor vehicle. He pleaded not guilty and was held without bail. The trial began on June 8, 2018. Brandon Henson's attorney was K. Ryan Helmick, who is infamous here in Las Vegas. Many locals know him as the traffic ticket lawyer who has that bright pink building. Helmick was also arrested once in 2013 for bringing a pistol into the courthouse. He is considered one of the top defense attorneys in town, and he's currently representing Robert Tellis in his murder case for the murder of Review Journal reporter Jeff Gurman. The Tellis case is wild,
Starting point is 00:15:05 but it's a story for another day. Part of Brandon's defense was that Michaela's murder wasn't premeditated. They asserted that Brandon had depression and therefore couldn't have planned or premeditated the crime. They also claimed that since he was taking Zoloft for his depression, it was the meds that made him do it. Hemlick brought many pretrial motions attempting to get evidence suppressed or excluded, including the interview that Hansen gave to police, which was thankfully denied. One of the key pieces of evidence the prosecution and defense were at odds about concerned Brandon's behavior while he was on that trip to Japan. According to text messages and other evidence, Brandon had met up with a woman while in Japan, and the two of them had slept
Starting point is 00:15:43 together. The defense argued that bringing this up at trial would be too prejudicial against Brandon, and that it wasn't relevant to the case. The prosecution disagreed. They stressed, this isn't a prior bad act, which would mean it should be excluded potentially. It was a consensual sexual encounter between two adults, and the prosecution wasn't trying to use that evidence just to make the defendant look bad or shame him. Why this evidence was important, according to the prosecution, was that it showed what was going on in Brandon's mind. Brandon had told his friends, his family members, and the detectives that he was distraught over his breakup with Michaela, and that he was devastated to find out she had cheated on him while he was in Japan,
Starting point is 00:16:23 and this had sent him into a deep depression. His expert witness, Dr. Norman Reutemann, gave an opinion about Brandon's mental state that was, in part, influenced by Brandon telling him the story about Michaela cheating on him. Brandon had told Dr. Reutemann that sleeping with the other woman was a one-time mistake due to drinking, and the intense guilt he felt over that mistake contributed heavily to his depression. But before he even knew that Michaela was breaking up with him because she'd met someone new, he had texts on his phone that showed he was already involved with someone else. He had also texted that woman after they had sex to plan another meetup, showing that it wasn't a one-time mistake. And despite all of this, Brandon continued to play the victim in their relationship,
Starting point is 00:17:04 and now he attempted to play the victim in the courtroom. The court saw through these arguments given the facts. It's no secret, in this case, who the victim was, and the court recognized that. The key here was that the evidence about the encounter in Japan wasn't being used to shame Brandon for his sexual history. Rather, it was being used to make the point that it was absurd that he was so broken up that Michaela had started a new relationship when he himself had already done the same thing. It simply didn't pass the smell test. On June 15th, after deliberating for approximately six hours, the jury unanimously found Brandon Hanson guilty on all the charges. First degree murder, burglary with a deadly weapon, robbery
Starting point is 00:17:45 with the use of a deadly weapon, and two counts of breaking, injuring, or tampering with a motor vehicle. During the sentencing hearing, Michaela's mom Lynn spoke saying, I delighted in watching her grow up, and most of all in the woman she became. I cry because I know that Michaela won't fulfill her dreams or achieve the goals she set for herself. And I cry because of what I won't have with Michaela. Your Honor, I'm not going to have everything I hoped and wished for my only daughter. Hansen was sentenced to life with the possibility of parole. His first parole hearing could be held as soon as 2034. In 2020, Brandon Hansen filed an appeal with the Court of Appeals for Nevada. His appeal challenged only his first-degree murder conviction. He and law and wrote that circumstantial evidence is particularly relevant
Starting point is 00:18:49 when determining premeditation and deliberation because there is rarely direct evidence of these elements. At this point, I think we should pause and talk a little bit about circumstantial versus direct evidence. I think that because of all the courtroom dramas we've all seen, sometimes people think that circumstantial means weak evidence, but that simply isn't accurate. Circumstantial evidence is just indirect inferences to reach a conclusion. That could be physical evidence like surveillance video or a witness's testimony or a defendant's confession. Circumstantial evidence is where you have to draw your own conclusion or where there might be more than one explanation for something. For example, direct evidence would be a store clerk seeing someone take a candy bar off a store shelf, stick it in their pocket, and walk out of the store with it.
Starting point is 00:19:46 Circumstantial evidence would be the police stop someone outside of the store and they have a candy bar in their pocket. I actually found this post online from a law school professor named Alice Baker, and we put a link to it in our show notes. But these would be examples of circumstantial evidence that a defendant robbed a bank. The defendant's fingerprints were all over the inside of the bank vault. From the fact that the defendant's fingerprints are in the vault, we infer that the defendant was physically there at some point in time. Yeah, that's not direct evidence because
Starting point is 00:20:20 no one saw him in the vault stealing the money. Maybe he was just there to make a repair. There's another possible explanation for his fingerprints being in the vault, and we have to make an inference to conclude that he's the one who robbed the bank. Yeah. And here's another one. The fact that the defendant was covered with dye from the bank's bait pack at the time of his arrest. From the fact that the defendant was covered with bait pack dye, we infer that he was holding the bait pack at the time it exploded. Or another piece of circumstantial evidence would be surveillance video from a mini mart half a block from the bank, taken two minutes after the robbery, showing the defendant running down the street covered with dye from the bank's bait pack. From the fact that the defendant
Starting point is 00:21:00 was located a half a block from the bank immediately after the robbery, covered with bait-packed dye, we infer that he robbed a bank located close to the mini-mart. So as you can see from these examples, there's nothing wrong with circumstantial evidence, and the evidence isn't necessarily weaker. While direct evidence can be more straightforward in proving a fact, circumstantial evidence can be equally compelling, especially when you connect the dots, when the multiple pieces point toward the same conclusion. In a case, both types of evidence are valuable. And when it comes to drawing a conclusion based on the defendant's state of mind, the Nevada Court of Appeals said you need to rely on circumstantial evidence because it's not often you have direct evidence. Another thing that's important to keep in mind is that direct evidence
Starting point is 00:21:43 isn't always conclusive. Eyewitness testimony can be unreliable as well, with variations due to the time of day, the level of vision, distance from the crime, and so on. In their opinion, Court of Appeals determined that a reasonable jury would have found that Hansen committed the crime with premeditation and deliberation based on both the direct evidence and circumstantial evidence. He damaged cars leading up to the crime. He had texted his friend that he was having murderous thoughts. He left his phone at home on the day of the crime, even though he had a charger in his car, likely so his location wouldn't be traced. He didn't park in the guest parking lot. He parked
Starting point is 00:22:17 further away and snuck in through the gate. He brought his backpack with him, which had a knife in it, and he continued to stab her after she fought him physically. After he killed her, he got rid of the knife, his bloody shoes, and her purse, and her cell phone. In his car, he had a fresh, clean pair of shoes to put on, which demonstrates he had a plan. Hansen's expert testified that Hansen was suffering from clinical depression at the time of the attack, but the expert also testified that people suffering from clinical depression could still make plans. In our Swing Shift bonus episode, we dig much deeper into this topic with Kenna from Diagnosing a Killer. We're going to play a snippet of that interview now. Clinical depression can be diagnosed for many different reasons, but one of the
Starting point is 00:22:58 tall tale symptoms is the fact that it puts strain on your relationship, even work, school, actual relationships with your family, or a like work, you know, school, actual relationships with your family or a romantic relationship. It's very clear in those relationships that there's something going on, not to victim blame or say anybody should have, you know, known that just based off of him being depressed, but still there were signs leading up to it. That's what we try to talk about a lot is like, look at the sign, educate yourself on what the signs are so that when they do happen, if they do happen, you can take action instead of just saying, well, I don't know how to help or just not
Starting point is 00:23:29 even realizing that it's happening. It's a fascinating interview. So if you're interested, head over to sincepod.co slash apple and subscribe to our premium tier and give it a listen. Also, when you're done listening, check out Diagnosing a Killer on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hansen's appeal was denied. Brandon Hansen is currently incarcerated at Lovelock Correctional Center and is eligible for parole in about 10 years. Michaela's mother, Lynn, has stated in more recent articles about her business that she was struggling after Michaela's murder and at the bottom of a pit.
Starting point is 00:24:02 She has moved to Minneapolis and was able to finally obtain that patent for her work, and her business is doing very well with the help of her son, and due in part to the encouragement and hard work of Michaela. There are hundreds of photos and testimonials out there about Michaela. I thought I would share one that I found on her memorial page. Michaela was our babysitter for the last three years. I have never met a sweeter, nicer, more charming, responsible, loving person in my life. She treated our kids like they were her own, and we all love her very much. Words can't express how sad we are about this tragedy. Michaela and her entire family are in our prayers every day.
Starting point is 00:24:40 We love you so much, Michaela parole, we will let you know. Please remember to check out the Swing Shift bonus episode. We think you'll find it really interesting. It's also important to remember that in a case like this, there are fact patterns that play out over and over, and as we so often remind you, these stories are happening all over the world. It's important to keep these fact patterns in mind with your friends and with your loved ones, and don't be afraid to reach out to them and check in to make sure they're safe. If you are in a situation like this, also look for the signs of escalating violence,
Starting point is 00:25:21 and get the help you need to make sure you're safe. No one thinks this is going to happen to them until it does. As Paul said, if the tragedy of Michaela losing her life to this violent domestic violence homicide raises awareness and prevents one other promising young woman from dying, at least some small good can come from this tragedy. Thanks again for listening and always remember, what happens here happens everywhere. Thanks for listening. Visit sinspod.co slash subscribe for exclusive bonus content and to listen ad-free. Remember to like and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and Threads at Sins and Survivors. If you're enjoying the podcast, please leave us a review on your podcast platform of
Starting point is 00:26:31 choice. You can contact us at questions at sinsandsurvivors.com. If you or someone you know is affected by domestic violence or needs support, please reach out to local resources or the National Domestic Violence Hotline. A list of resources is available on our website, sinsandsurvivors.com. Sins and Survivors, a Las Vegas true crime podcast, is research written and produced by your hosts, Sean and John. The information shared in this podcast is accurate at the time of recording. If you have questions, concerns, or corrections, please email us. Links to source material for this episode can be found on our website, sinsandsurvivors.com. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast creators, hosts, and their guests. All individuals are innocent until proven
Starting point is 00:27:16 guilty. This content does not constitute legal advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with legal professionals for guidance.

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