Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) - girls gone wild 2024 (a hawk tuah bonus)

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

In this Hawk Tuah bonus episode, Jamie connects the man on the street TikTok content that made Haliey Welch famous to its media ancestor — the Girls Gone Wild craze of the 2000s. We talk with former GGW street team member and incredible podcaster Courtney Kocak to learn more about how exploiting drunk women for men’s profit became a million dollar industry.  Follow Courtney’s work @courtneykocak and listen to Private Parts Unknown here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/private-parts-unknown-sex-love-around-the-world/id1154304419 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. It's Black Business Month, and Money and Wealth podcast with John Hope Bryant is tapping in. I'm breaking down how to build wealth, create opportunities, and move from surviving to thriving. It's time to talk about ownership, equity, and everything in between. Black and brown communities have historically been lasting lives. Let me just say this. AI is moving faster than civil rights legislation ever did. Listen to Money and Wealth from the Black Effect Podcast Network on iOS.

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I'm not so bad when you turn up the lights, but I can't be perfect all at a time to make me a start but take it too far and give me one moment I'm sorry

minute of fame 60 minute of fame 16 minute of fame One more minute of fame I'm not so bad when you're taking on my mind I'm trying to say so goodbye Welcome back to 16th Minute, the podcast where we take a look at the internet's characters

of the day to see how their moment affected them and what that says about us and the internet. I'm your host, Jamie Loftus, and today we are continuing to talk about Haley Welch, the Hawk to a girl. Well, kind of. When we left off, we were talking about the style of content that launched Haley to prominence. In her case, a channel called Tim and D TV that posted clips across TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram. And when I saw the formula that made their videos popular, it felt kind of familiar to me. Quickly edited footage of drunk women saying dirty, silly shit outside of bars, while the men who ran the show with basically no charisma egged them on to say more.

It reminded me of something, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what? This was a couple weeks ago. And then, one day, as I was walking through an outdoor mall to cure my depression, I heard the distant sound

of a steel drum, and then it came to me. My nipples hardened, in fear, not the fun way. I knew what these surveillance TikTok channels reminded me of. Girls Gone Wild. Yes, the Girls Gone Wild home video craze of the 90s and 2000s.

Videos of young, attractive women, usually drunk, and of even more dubious consent than the TikTok exploitation videos we see now. With tapes were pioneered by a bag-of-shit reality pioneer by the name of Joe Francis, who occasionally appeared on the tapes, goading normal women into flashed. lashing their boobs to the tune of millions of dollars. They were unbelievably popular. But these tapes' legacies weren't examined in detail until recently. By an amazing journalist, I have a strong parisocial relationship with

named Scotchy Cole that began streaming on Peacock in December 2024. And this docu-series isn't just a damning profile of Joe Francis, who, by the way, is a fugitive living in a Mexican villa after a series of lawsuits that include child abuse for filming and profiting from the exposed breasts of underage girls, bracketeering, false imprisonment of women in his home, the list gets worse and worse. The docu-series is a look into how the girls and women who appeared in Girls Gone Wild were treated in the moment and after their appearance was made public. This series was surveillance and exploitation at its finest.

Only this wasn't the proto-reality hidden camera surveillance. The appeal of Girls Gone Wild was how normal these girls were, how vulnerable they seemed, and how as they were flashing you, they were looking right into the camera. And because these were distributed by ordering VHS tapes over the phone, they weren't regulated like normal TV would be and weren't beholden to internet terms of service. And apparently, at the time, no one really cared about the level of consent

that the women who appeared in the tapes had provided them. And don't even get me started on the Hurricane Katrina fundraising tape from Girls Gone Wild featuring old clips from exploited women in New Orleans hosted by Snoop Dogg. A real sentence! Warning, this video contains explicit material not suitable for children.

If you think Girls Gone Wild was Wild before, just wait until you see what these girls do when Snoop Dogg is unleashed and takes control of the camera. It's not sold in stores and can't be shown on TV, so call now and get the all-new Girls Gone Wild doggy style. Hosted by Snoop Dogg, yours on video or DVD for just $9.99. I highly recommend the Peacock docus series whose reveals about Girls Gone Wild include the dubious or complete lack of consent of the participants, the many underage. age girls whose bodies were exploited for the sake of video sales, first-hand accounts of young women whose lives were damaged or destroyed by their appearance on the tapes, some of whom didn't even remember being filmed after being plied with alcohol from Girls Gone Wild producers, and some who were coerced into performing hardcore sex acts while not sober

without proper compensation. This is not an anti-sex work sentiment. these women were taken advantage of and had little to no agency as to what appeared in the final product. Nearly 30 years later, we can pretty easily understand it to be a horrific operation, but not before it had a tremendously big influence on internet content.

Girls Gone Wild began distribution in 1997, just shy of when the internet became accessible in the mainstream. But you can feel its presence in the hot. Cho-Tua-style content we're still getting today. What's one move in bed that makes a man go crazy every time? Oh, you gotta give him that huck-to and spit on that thing. Of course, there are stylistic changes. Joe Francis wasn't splicing lazy meme videos between clips of drunk women he presented as eagerly consenting.

And it's important to note that in Tim and D's maybe defense, that the women in their videos are fully clothed. because they have to comply with the rules of the platforms they're beholden to. And so I actually agree with the New York Times when they say that their content is sort of a Gen Z, KG-13 version of Girls Gone Wild. It's a concept they've grown up familiar with, though they would have actually been too young or not alive enough to buy the VHS tapes themselves. But the format was normalized and replicated through subsequent popular mediums. And that format includes the payment structure of the subjects. Girls Gone Wild would get paid in t-shirts, petty cash, or hats. And while I cannot certify this,

nothing about Tim and D's workflow as they proudly describe it in their quote-unquote, tell-all YouTube video, The Hawk Truth, sounds any better. In fact, their system might be worse. It doesn't sound like Chelsea Bradford or Haley Welch ever got the t-shirt, that the guys were printing with Haley's face on them. And while, sure, Tim and D did appear to get verbal consent from their subjects on camera, the issues of both the possibility of consent due to intoxication

and the fact that they aren't checking the ages of the people they're talking to, it's not ethical, period. A long way of saying, I don't feel bad for Tim and D for not getting the credit that they felt they deserved. And upon watching most of Haley's immediate post-hawk toa interviews, mostly on other video podcasts, I think she was appropriately dismissive of the men who felt they should be getting a cut of her likeness and words. Of course, there are plenty of other stereotypes that were applied to Haley that made this moment possible. The algorithm always boosts young white women.

The hypersexualization of ordinary women was well established, as was, stereotyping Southern accents as uneducated, as was stereotyping women who admitted to enjoying sex as objects of ridicule or slut shaming. But one of the few advantages of coming to prominence in 2024 was that with the right assistance, Haley had a shot at seizing her own narrative. For a while, anyway. And so to round this first part of the Hocktoa series out, as Haley Welch hard-launch hard-launched herself into pop culture and introduced the version of herself that would be available to the public, I wanted to talk to someone who's been through this kind of process, only 20 years earlier. My friend and top-tier podcaster Courtney Kochak when we come back. We all know, right? Genius is evenly distributed. Opportunity is not.

It's Black Business Month and Black Tech Green Money is tapping in. I'm Will Lucas spotlighting black founders, investors, and innovators, building the future one idea at a time. Let's talk legacy, tech, and generational wealth. I don't think any person of any gender, race, ethnicity should alter who they are, especially on an intellectual level or a talent level to make someone else feel comfortable just because they are the majority in this situation and they need employment. So for me, I'm always going to be honest in saying that we can. You need to be unapologetically ourselves. If that makes me a vocal CEO and people consider that rocking the boat, so be it.

To hear this and more on the power of black innovation and ownership, listen to Black Tech Green Money from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Smokey the bar. Then you know why Smokey tells you when he sees you passing through. Remember, please be careful. It's the least that you can do. what you decide. Don't play with matches.

Don't play with fire. After 80 years of learning his wildfire prevention tips, Smokey Bear lives within us all. Learn more at Smokeybear.com, and remember, only you can prevent wildfires. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester and the ad council.

Adventure should never come with a pause button. Remember the movie pass era? Where you could watch all the movies you wanted for just $9? It made zero cents, and I could not stop thinking about it. I'm Bridget Todd, host of the tech podcast, there are no girls on the internet. On this new season, I'm talking to the innovators who are left out of the tech headlines.

Like the visionary behind a movie pass, black founder Stacey Spikes, who was pushed out of movie pass, the company that he founded. His story is wild and it's currently the subject of a juicy new HBO documentary. We dive into how culture connects us. When you go to France, or you go to England, or you go to Hong Kong, those kids are wearing Jordans. They're wearing Kobe's shirt. They're watching Black Panther. And the challenges of being a Black founder. Close your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like. They're not going to describe someone who looks like me and they're not going to describe someone who looks like you. I created There Are No Girls on the Internet because the future belongs to all of us. So listen to

there are no girls on the internet on the IHurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is, can Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with A.J. Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land? Jeopardy truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in... I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. Are there Jeopardy truthers? Are there people who say that it was rigged? Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like, they gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they gave you the answers. And you, and you're the answers. And you,

You still blew it. Don't miss Jeopardy legend Ken Jennings on our special game show week of The Puzzler podcast. The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to 16th Minute. Since I started writing this episode, we had to evacuate our home due to the city burning down. And we are continuing to dig deeper into the lore of Haley Welch, the Hawk toa girl. By now, I hope it's clear to you that how one views Haley Welch and the Hoctua phenomenon in general

has a lot to do with who you are and what your experiences are, something that only becomes clearer as Haley's image is politicized, warped, and exploited for money as the months we're on, as we'll talk about next week. And while I think the result of all of this is still pretty bleak for her, I have noticed, and honestly kind of agree with a number of people who have been put through a similar exploitation ringer in years past, who were actually heartened to see that Haley was able to rest control of her image back from the guys who had been put through a similar exploitation ringer in years past, who were actually heartened to see that Haley was able to rest control of her image back from the guys who had. who had posted her without her proper consent. But I wanted to understand that viewpoint better. So I called up Courtney Kochak, the incredible host of shows like Private Parts Unknown, and maybe you didn't know, because I didn't.

She worked for Girls Gone Wild in the mid-2000s, and she has some thoughts. Here's our talk. I mean, this is a story that is obviously very entrenched in the internet, but I feel like it has all of these dynamics that far predate the internet. So I went to college for acting and was like, going to be an actor. And so I went out to L.A.

And I, you know, I'm from like a small town in Minnesota. So like I, for whatever, I had no idea. Like I thought, you know, I had prepared myself in these certain ways. Like I did a BFA program and like scoured the internet and was like unmodeled mayhem and was like doing all the things that I thought that I could do, but I was still so naive and so sheltered. So when I got to L.A., I didn't have any money. I had like $200. I mean, seriously, I was staying with a friend in Van Nuys. So I had no way to pursue what I was here to pursue, really. I did the Girls Gone Wild tour in 2005, and I was 21. I was working this shit job

in the Inland Empire, it was promoting staples. So I was going like business to business in the heat of the inland empire. Yeah. Do you want the easy button for your business? Like handing out free shit. It was horrible. That was, you know, the context of me searching on Craigslist on my friend's Futon, like trying to find another job to get out of that hell. And I saw like, do you want to travel? for girls gone wild like do you want to go on the tour do you want to be the merch girl and i was like oh this solves my problems like i don't have a permanent home i'm kind of like overstaying my welcome on my friends couch i you know i need money i submitted for that craigslist ad and it was literally like the next day i was at work in the inland empire and i faked that i was sick and i

went to meet with them at their offices in Santa Monica. They had this office building. What did you think when you thought girls gone wild? What was your stance on it at the time? Yeah, I had never seen an actual video. You know, like I'd never seen their product. But the infomercials were ubiquitous. Like that was, and they were fun to watch, right? It was like steel drum music, right? And it was like, yeah, these little pop-up sensors. It looked like a party. It looked like what they were selling was a fun party and like, yeah, girls flash. And like, of course, they're cool and it's fun. You know, that's what I thought. Yeah. So I had no fucking idea, you know. Do the interview and I think it's going to solve all

my problems because it's, I'm not going to have to find this place to live. I will have money. I had to look up my tax return. And I made, I think I made $50 a day. is what I made. I was on the tour for like seven weeks. And so when you'd like do the math off of what I made, it was $46. Anyway, I get on the flight. I go do the interview. They basically tell me at the interview, like your job is to make the girls feel comfortable. What they sort of didn't say is like enough to be exploited. You know, I, you know, and I hadn't seen the video. So I, I didn't know exactly, but I could get the vibe. But I was like, yeah, I'm, I'm cool, I'm fun. I want to be hot enough to do, you know, like, all that shit. I mean, I think that it's like this weird, oh, I've been entrusted with like, I've been hired as a girl's girl. And the guy that I met with, he had had Hollywood kind of experiences, but it seemed adjacent to what I wanted to do. So I was like, I could kind of kid myself into feeling like it was like sort of like the entertainment industry. And yeah, I left like literally the next day, went to Vancouver and then obviously we didn't

have work permits in Canada. We were in Canada like half the time I was on the tour. It was 2005. So Joe was starting to have legal problems at this point. And I never met him, but he definitely loomed large. He'd already, I think, been on People magazine. And when we went to bars and stuff, It's like people knew about his, about him and, like, wanted to meet him. And then we were traveling in this garish branded bus that just said, like, girls gone wild. When we started doing the club events, I was like, oh, this is kind of like a sham. Like, we're not bringing the party at all. Really?

Well, what do you mean? If you saw the infomercials, you would think, like, we were going to roll up and there were going to be a bunch of girls. like we were going to bring the girls, you know, but it was just, I was the only girl. And I was like, I just saw a picture of myself. I was a baby. Like, I was a little, like, fat-cheeked little baby, 21-year-old baby. And you were the only girl that they brought? So were they just relying on the, like, hey, we're going to be in this spot at this time

and just sort of had people come do the work for them, basically? Yeah. I mean, you saw the documentary. So it's like that was their whole thing was that they didn't want urban girls either. Like we sometimes were in cities, but we were trying to get out of the cities ASAP because cities, college towns, it's like they didn't want anybody that was kind of like hip to what they were doing. They really wanted like a small town where people were naive. Like it would be more of an event versus. Yes.

And it would be more of an event. But they were also not like, there weren't, you know, a bunch of feminists to be like, hey, what the fuck's going on here, you know? Right, right. You don't have the counter protesters either. What they were doing is drawing in the girls from the town that they could then shoot and have be the product that they were selling. Obviously, nobody got paid. I didn't see anyone get paid except one girl was a stripper. And so she knew how to negotiate with them. She knew to ask for money. You know, she, like, had a little savvy about it, but nobody else got paid. Were there consent forms?

Was there any, like, checking of people's ages? Like, how did that side work? They had already gotten in trouble for this at this point, I think, the age thing. You know, it was pretty specific. Like, the girl had to, like, hold up the ID and say on camera that she consented and sign the thing. Like, there were, like, a few steps to the lockdown the consent form. So that's, yeah, that's the other thing, too, is like, in retrospect, it's like, okay, I think that honestly getting a piece of paper is more than a lot of these on the street TikTokers do now. But it's also like, what does that piece of paper mean if you're blackout drunk when you sign it?

I think it should be, obviously, I don't know, it's like, they are over 18. It's like technically, yes, it's a legal document. but to sign a thing where you're like giving permission to sell your body when you're drunk. I mean, it should be illegal to ask someone to sign that document, I think. On a normal night while you're on this bus tour, what does it look like for you? Well, we did, we had so many issues like getting dates canceled. So it's not like we were working every night, thank God. But like when we did have an event on our good club nights,

I would be selling t-shirts, which was kind of hard to do, or sometimes the t-shirts were being given away, you know, to the girls. But yeah, that was my job. And then hanging out on the bus, you know, pouring drinks and just like being a girl, which they told me would be the job. Like, just to have you there is going to make the other girls want to hang out. I wasn't like in the room when the naked stuff was happening but I but I would see them for me the most fucked up part I mean this is really I don't know we've never talked about this before but like this is like a defining thing for me when I was 20 and 21 it's like I got raped twice I did girls gone wild and then when I was 23 I had an abortion and by the end I was like oh I don't I'm like a totally different person what I was

about to say is one of the things that really made me depressed when I was on this tour was like the whole vibe of it was like we're rating women constantly on a scale from one to 10 we're scouting for these women to be in our scenes even if we're like out at dinner or you know whatever just like 24-7 like the guys got paid 500 bucks or whatever for a scene if they could get a scene which would be like a girl eating an out another girl or playing with sex toys or a scene is like, you know, like a porn scene. So the women doing this are signing consent forums and doing it for free or for merch. But if you're a guy who could convince them to do it, you make $500.

Yes. Or I don't know exactly the amount. Like maybe it was like 200 or something. You know, but yes, you were getting paid. You make money. What was it like sort of observing that and processing that? Because I also know you were like a baby feminist at this point, too. Well, and I just, I want to caveat this by saying, like, I am very, yes, I'm a feminist, and I was finding my feminism at the time, but like, I'm very sex positive. I have an only fan. Like, you know, I'm not coming at this, like, a prude.

Like, I'm coming at this just in a way of like, oh, I grew up in the education system and I thought we were equal and it turns out these women have no agency and actually I don't have any agency either. It's like it was a devastating thing to learn. So actually I ate my feelings like is what wound up happening. I gained like 15 pounds while I was on the bus, which was just kind of like a weird side effect of seeing all this happened. But yeah, it was and we didn't have language. It was like pre-me-2. So I couldn't be like, this is what I'm witnessing and, you know, this is what's wrong with it. I was just like, ugh, I can't, I can't be here anymore was what wound up happening. We all know, right? Genius is evenly distributed. Opportunity is not.

It's Black Business Month and Black Tech Green Money is tapping in. I'm Will Lucas spotlighting Black founders, investors, and innovators, building the future one idea at a time. Let's talk legacy, tech, and generational wealth. I don't think any person of any gender, race, ethnicity should alter who they are, especially on an intellectual level or a talent level, to make someone else feel comfortable just because they are the majority in this situation and they need employment. So for me, I'm always going to be honest in saying that we need to be unapologetically ourselves.

If that makes me a vocal CEO and people consider. of that rocking the boat. I'm so being. To hear this and more on the power of black innovation and ownership, listen to Black Tech Green Money from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. If a baby is giggling in the back seat, they're probably happy. If a baby is crying in the back seat, they're probably hungry. But if a baby is sleeping in the back seat, will you remember they're even there? When you're distracted,

stressed, or not usually the one who drives them, the chances of forgetting them in the back seat are much higher. It can happen to anyone. Parked cars get hot fast and can be deadly. So get in the habit of checking the back seat when you leave. The message from NHTSA and the ad council. Hello, puzzlers. Let's start with a quick puzzle. The answer is Ken Jennings' appearance on The Puzzler with AJ Jacobs. The question is, what is the most entertaining listening experience in podcast land. Jeopardy truthers who say that you were given all the answers believe in...

I guess they would be conspiracy theorists. That's right. Are there Jeopardy truthers? Are there people who say that it was rigged? Yeah, ever since I was first on, people are like, they gave you the answers, right? And then there's the other ones which are like, they gave you the answers and you still blew it. Don't miss Jeopardy legend Ken Jennings on our special game. game show week of the Puzzler podcast.

The Puzzler is the best place to get your daily word puzzle fix. Listen on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Adventure should never come with a pause button. Remember the movie pass era? Where you could watch all the movies you wanted for just $9? It made zero cents and I could not stop thinking about it. I'm Bridget Todd. host of the tech podcast, there are no girls on the internet.

On this new season, I'm talking to the innovators who are left out of the tech headlines, like the visionary behind a movie pass, black founder Stacey Spikes, who was pushed out of movie pass the company that he founded. His story is wild and it's currently the subject of a juicy new HBO documentary. We dive into how culture connects us. When you go to France, or you go to England, or you go to Hong Kong, Those kids are wearing Jordans, they're wearing Kobe's shirt, they're watching Black Panther. And the challenges of being a Black founder.

Close your eyes and tell me what a tech founder looks like. They're not going to describe someone who looks like me and they're not going to describe someone who looks like you. I created There Are No Girls on the Internet because the future belongs to all of us. So listen to There Are No Girls on the Internet on the IHurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what were the circumstances that you left under? We wound up kind of getting kicked out of Canada or like we had to leave in the middle of the, you know, it was like we had to get an emergency flight out of Toronto about halfway three or four weeks into my time on the tour. And then I went the southeast U.S. and we did like North Carolina and Georgia and Florida. I always forget I've been to the top of Florida because I just kind of blocked it out.

We also did St. Louis, Ohio. And by the end of my time, I can't even really, it's hard for me to remember that part because it had just gotten so weird for me to be there. And I realized, like, oh, I'm not like a girl gone wild at all. I got to get the hell out of here. But I had taken this job because I needed money. So, like, the whole time I'm on the tour, debt collectors are calling me. because, like, I hadn't paid my credit card.

It's not like I had a place to go back to in L.A. And also, I was so adamant about, like, what I'm going to do. And I have these, like, very quaint Midwestern parents. I wasn't going to call them and be like, listen. So this is what's going on. I was totally wrong. I was felt trapped, which was, like, the worst part of it. Ultimately, I did leave.

I left on, I left on September 30th was my 22nd birthday and that's when I got back to L.A. Yeah, there was some day where we were in like Alabama or like Florida or something and it was just like oppressive heat and I just could not anymore. And I told the guy and I was like, I didn't want to, I was kind of afraid they were going to make me pay for my flight home or I really didn't know how I was going to get out of there. And then, yeah, that was like the one night. I don't even think they made me work that night. God, it's like the absolute least they can do. I hate that I'm surprised.

And then I flew back and I was just really fucked up for a year and a half. I mean, like, best case scenario was kind of like you were drunk and you actually signed the release form. And there were girls, like, on the documentary that didn't even consent to being filmed, period. Right. And I mean, like, cases of, like, underage girls that were like I was too drunk to consent and I was 17. And once you had moved on

from that and you're like, okay, whatever I want to do, it's fucking not this. Did you notice as the years past like what Girls Gone Wild kind of legacy was? Did you see it pop up in other areas of media? It was such a huge cultural thing. The Gone Wild joke or whatever, was said by like everyone. And I feel like that's part of the insidious normalization is just like if you're fucking straight-laced politician is making jokes about it too, it seems so normal. Yeah, you've broken through. Joe was, it's like he made millions of dollars.

I mean, there was the legal stuff that was sort of like bubbling, but like he wasn't really disrespected in the culture. He was like held up as like this guy. who made it. And so that's probably what these guys now, it's so funny to think about these guys now because they're targeting specifically drunk people and definitely does have some a whiff of Girls Gone Wild what they're doing. But I had written about it for the first time the Girls Gone Wild thing in 2012. And the way that I write about it today isn't like drastically different from the way that I wrote about it then. So like I knew exactly what it

happen and I could articulate it then before I even had the language. Like, I knew that this exploitation was happening and I could identify my role in it. Today feels like drastically different. That's why it almost until you reframed it, like, I wasn't like, oh, Haktua's a victim. It's like, Haktua seems like such a privileged, you know, version of that. It's like she wasn't naked. She was just making a sex joke. It had nothing to do with her actually doing a sex act. You can't get away with what Joe Francis was doing in the same way anymore. Not even close.

No. And I think that that's an amazing thing. And then there's also this like whiff of like, but there people will figure out a way to exploit young women no matter what. Really OnlyFans is like the, you know, next level of Girls Gone Wild. And yes, there are people who are, they'll be the management company for these girls and like they will get a huge cut of the profit and they'll do the chatting and whatever. And that is a little bit predatory. But it's nowhere near Girls Gone Wild and most of what is happening on OnlyFans is

girls themselves being like, oh, I'm going to monetize. And I'm not saying sometimes it happens also when they're toys. 21 and two mentally immature to really like properly probably make that decision. But they're making the money themselves. They're making like thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands, occasionally millions of dollars. And to me, that is like such an encouraging sign. I am really glad that like we we have language now. And the only fans thing is an evolution in a positive way for sure.

And so I do just want to acknowledge, like, the positive moves. But, yeah, the culture still is not fixed. All the, like, your body, my choice stuff, too. It felt like, oh, maybe we really did kind of fix this. And then I was like, oh, just as soon as you think that, you will be shocked back into realizing, like, oh, no, we're still there. Thank you so, so much to Courtney. and you can follow her across all platforms at Courtney Cochak, K-O-C-A-K.

I wanted to add that little bonus just to give some more context into where this content comes from. But the fact remains, we're at the end of week one of the Hawke Tua series, and I have managed to get us to, I think, the second day of the Hock Tua story. But stay with me here. There are so many repeating patterns inside this story. both in the ways that Haley is framed, the decision she makes, and the way the public reacts to her. And whether you like this woman or not, whether you agree with what she thinks or the kind of audience she pulls, or the kinds of people she's been surrounded by, plenty of this is up for discussion.

She was put in an extremely weird position to navigate her way through or out of, and from what I can gather, it was not necessarily voluntarily. So now that we have a better understanding of how she got here, who the fuck is Haley Welch? And how the fuck does she end up in a crypto scam six months after this? That's next week on 16th minute. And a little foreshadowing to close out this episode. I hate to interrupt you, but hello there. But anywho, I'm going to go to bed.

And I'll see you guys next Tuesday. Bye. The 16th Minute is a production of Cool Zone Media and IHeart Radio. It is written, hosted, and produced by me, Jamie Loftus. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichten and Robert Evans. The Amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor. Our theme song is by Sad 13. Voice acting is from Grant Crater.

And pet shoutouts to our dog producer Anderson, my cats fleeing Casper, and my pet rock bird who will outlive us all. Bye. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell, and the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught, and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Black Business Month, and Money and Wealth podcast with John Hope Bryant is tapping in.

I'm breaking down how to build wealth, create opportunities, and move from surviving to thriving. It's time to talk about ownership, equity, and everything in between. Black and brown communities have historically been last in life. Let me just say this. AI is moving faster than civil rights legislation ever did. Listen to Money and Wealth from the Black Effect Podcast Network on IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast.

Check out Behind the Flow, a podcast documentary series following the launch of San Diego Football Club. San Diego coming to MLS is going to be a game changer because this region has been hungry for a men's professional soccer team. We need to embrace this community. Listen to San Diego FC, Behind the Flow, on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.