Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) - overly attached girlfriend, pt. 2

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

In part two of our Overly Attached Girlfriend series, we talked to the OAG herself -- Laina Morris. She revisits the viral moment she didn't see coming in 2012, the weirdness of being in a Delta Airlines safety video, and navigating what a career online and at the mercy of the algorithm looks like while struggling with depression. Laina's been away from regular posting for the last five years as she navigated it all, and she and Jamie get into how to maintain your self-worth and share yourself safely. Slap on your scary eyes, baby, we're going in. Follow Laina on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/@laina Follow Laina on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/laina Follow Laina on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@laina622 Sixteenth Minute Reddit! : https://www.reddit.com/r/SixteenthMinute/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Genius is evenly distributed. Opportunity is not. To hear this and more on the power of Black Innovations. and ownership, listen to Black Tech Green Money from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If a baby is giggling in the back seat,

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in partnership with Deeply Sports and Entertainment on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebeney, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney, and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you.

Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Cool Zone Media. I'm not so bad when you turn up the lights going on. I can be perfect all in a time to make me a star. Let's take it too far Then you can't be one more more. Let me see you.

Let me see you. Let's see. 16 minute of fame. Sixteen minute of fame. Sixteen minute of face. One more minute of me. Oh, so bad. Welcome back to the Internet.

Welcome back to 16th Minute, the podcast where we talk to the Internet's main characters and see how their moment affected them and what that says about us and the Internet. My name's Jamie Loftus, and I genuinely deeply love movies that take place entirely on a computer screen. I'm not interested in why you don't respect these films. they're the best ones, and if you think I'm wrong, maybe you haven't seen unfriended. But I would like to see a rom-com in the computer movie genre. We've got to get away from the horror. We've got to get away from the thrillers.

Everyone loves computer. And today is part two of our look at the overly attached girlfriend saga that started in 2012 and continues into today. So if you haven't listened to the first part of this series, kindly do that now. I'm serious. Go listen to it. Okay, I think they're gone. To those who have listened to Part 1, here's a quick refresher from last week

because I know that two news cycles happen a day now and you might need it. Lena Morris was just a college student when the overly attached girlfriend meme first came to prominence during the summer of 2012, an internet era where being a full-time YouTuber was just starting to look possible, but was still kind of nebulous in what that would actually look like.

Around the time Laina left school to pursue YouTube full-time, from her home base in Texas, she wasn't a part of that generation of YouTubers that flocked to L.A. The platform itself was putting extreme emphasis on watch time, or how much time a user spent on YouTube, and tweaked its recommendation algorithm to keep people watching for as long as possible. And if you know anything about YouTube, you know that this super worked. But for Lena and creators on the platform then and now, that meant they were encouraged to produce a lot of content, because the algorithm of this time would boost users who posted often, which inadvertently rewarded overwork and sometimes underthinking. Lena worked as a successful YouTuber for over half a decade.

At first, just as the overly attached girlfriend character, but later she wrote and performed sketches as herself. She did reaction videos, she did get-to-know-me videos, and she became a familiar and popular presence on the platform for years while never getting caught up in some of those influencer shit shows you might associate with this era of YouTube. And from the outside, she seemed pretty fulfilled doing it. But in 2019, Lena publicly admitted that this wasn't necessarily true. She had been struggling with depression for some time

and found that the grind and self-inflicted pressure of a YouTube career had exacerbated that depression further. And so she said at the time she was going to take a step back from YouTube to take care of herself and wasn't sure when she would be back. But just this past summer, five years after first leaving YouTube,

Lena posted again, reflecting on the time away and wondering if now that she'd had the time to work on herself if it wasn't time to give YouTube another shot. I was lucky enough to talk with Lena shortly after this video was released, and she is, as you're about to hear, the coolest, most humble, kind person. We talk about that first viral moment back in 2012, that era of the internet, and the concept of burnout, especially during a time where it wasn't a common talking

point among creatives. So, without further ado, widen your eyes and throw on a high-contrast t-shirt because this is my interview with the overly attached girlfriend, Lena Morris. And we talked for some time, so this interview has been edited for time and clarity. Enjoy. My name is Lena. I kind of got my start on the internet about 12 years ago. I posted a video that became a meme called the overly attached girlfriend. You are like an internet legend, I feel.

I mean, I want to talk about, of course, the moment where everything first happened, but Like, you built such, I think like a unique career. But first, I wanted to talk about the fact that you posted a video for the first time in forever a couple weeks ago on YouTube. Tell me about the decision to come back to YouTube after five years, right? Yes, five years. I wanted to post a video just like a five years later update type of video, which what I ended up posting wasn't even. There weren't really even updates in that video, but I was thinking about it. when I posted a video five years ago, kind of like quitting YouTube and talking about my mental

health and why I needed to quit and all of those things. And the reaction to that was so like overwhelmingly positive in a way I didn't expect. And I got a lot of like comments and messages from people that I think I mentioned in my recent video like I saved them and I still read them. Now they it's just like a very overwhelmingly great reaction that I wanted to come back and sort of acknowledge that and talk about it a little bit. And when I started thinking about that and brainstorming ideas for a video or like, do I even want to post one, do I not, whatever, I just started getting this feeling of like, you know, like maybe I actually want to post multiple videos or maybe I want to try and like go back, which is not a thing I ever thought like would

happen. It wasn't in my head at all. I think if it was, I probably couldn't come back. So I decided to just like post a video five years later and see how that felt. and then sort of take next steps based on how that felt and it felt pretty good. I haven't posted a video since then. I wanted to, to be honest, right after I posted it, things in my personal life got a little crazy and I just haven't gotten back to it and I wish I did. I think I still will. I don't know, but I think that also seeing the reaction to that video as well, like in that

feeling good, sort of maybe having a better grasp on my mental health and stuff. Like, I don't know. I think there's a lot of things that make it make sense to me five years later. Yeah. A little like unexpected for me too. Well, welcome back, maybe. Yeah, maybe. So I guess I want to go back back because I feel like most of the interviews that I've found that you've done over the years. I am curious just a little bit about how you grew up.

Where did you grow up? What was life like? Ooh, fun. Okay. So I was born and raised in Texas, North Texas, like Dallas-Fort Worth area. I lived there until I was like 26. I'm the youngest of four kids. I went to college in Texas.

I had been going to college for like a couple years when the overly attached girlfriend stuff started. And I decided to like take a break and I haven't gone back to sort of pursue that. But life right before the meme was very much. much just like, yeah, going to school, working part-time, just kind of like a very normal. I was going to school to be a teacher. I knew that, like, I didn't really want to do that. I was just sort of in this like, what am I going to do stage when everything took off. So did you grow up performing? Were you interested in performing? No. I mean, I was the youngest of four kids. So in a way, I would.

You have to like jockey for attention. Yeah. Like in that way, I performed every day of my life. yeah I was certainly interested in it I think if I maybe had I think if I had maybe I would have been a kid that would have enjoyed probably like theater or something like that I just like never it's never a thing that I did I always really liked comedy I do think that like this is so embarrassing and obnoxious but there was something about the attention of like being the class clown or like something you might fit like there was something there that was like I want I like the feeling of like making people laugh getting that reaction. That was certainly there. But there was no performing in any way. And that makes like your trajectory all the more interesting where it's like it truly is like an overnight. The video, the original video, I went back and watched it. It's still very funny. It still hits. Thank you. And overnight that changes your life in this huge way. So I guess before we get to that, at the point that you made the original video, what was your relationship with the internet like around that time in college. Wow, I don't know. Let me think for a second. I'm trying to think of like what. I guess

I had a Facebook. I'm trying to think of what social media looked like back then. I feel like back then too. It was always like there was like one social media at a time. Like when I was younger, I had like a Zanga, then a Myspace, then a Facebook. Like it was all just like one. It wasn't this like explosion of all of the, you know, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, whatever it is now. Yeah, I mean, I had a Facebook. There was no, I didn't have like any public social media. Maybe I had a Twitter. Instagram wasn't a thing yet. I didn't even know what Reddit was until I posted the video.

So honestly, remember, I'm like, where did I get my news and information? I don't know. I guess, I guess it was just mostly like Facebook. And I mean, I watched a decent amount of YouTube. I knew that like some people were doing it as a job. I knew that was like kind of a thing. I watched Jenna Marbles. I really liked Boeh-Burn.

I watched, I think a little bit of like Jimmy Taitro, stuff like that, but I, all my mind is going to is Facebook. As forever ago, as the internet in 2012 feels, it's, I don't know, that was, you could still set your relationship status to it's complicated. Uh-huh. You just, like, walk me through the moment. You hear of this Justin Bieber contest. What are the parameters of the contest? Yeah, so I heard about this contest.

So maybe that's the thing I was doing on the internet, because I found that somehow. I was like, I wonder where that even came. Yeah, I don't know. I somehow came across this contest Justin Bieber was having. So he had this new fragrance coming out called Girlfriend, and he had this song that had just been released called Boyfriend, and he asked his fans to write a parody of the song from a girlfriend's perspective and upload it to YouTube. Well, I remember immediately thinking, like, I want to make this funny.

How can I make it funny? I'll make it just like kind of creepy, stalker, girlfriend, whatever. I remember just like being really excited to write this song. I had this piece of paper that I took. I think I took it to work with me that day and I was like in between, like, working. I was like writing these lyrics.

Where were you working? I was working at a place called Packin Mail in Denton, Texas. It was just exactly what it sounds like. I was in a rush to film the video because I thought it had to be submitted by a certain time. I changed out of my work shirt really quickly after work one day to record it. I just grabbed like this t-shirt that was on the floor of my bedroom.

I recorded it on my webcam. I had done like a couple takes maybe. I feel like also I'm so at this point in my life. I'm like, what am I remembering and what have I said so many times that I just believe it's true? That feels true. Yeah. But I do have a very clear memory. Who knows where it came from.

Having this period of time of this just like instrumental at the beginning where I didn't know what to do. So I think on like the last take, I was like, I'm going to make this like creepy face and just stare right into the camera. So that's what I did. I uploaded the video. I posted it to my Facebook just for like my friends and family to see. And then someone on my Facebook or something posted it to Reddit. Was it just a screen cap or like the whole video? I think posted the whole video, just like a link to the YouTube video.

Then someone on Reddit took a screenshot from the beginning where I made that face look. into the camera and then that became the meme but before I went to bed that night I knew like the video had taken off a little bit when I woke up the next morning that's when the meme was everywhere that's when like the overly attached girlfriend was a thing after someone had taken that screenshot and it blew up again that blew up like separately on reddit i guess someone i think commented on the video and said that they came from reddit or something about the front page of reddit something like that and i looked it up because i was like what is reddit then i started like reading comments on Reddit and sort of like seeped into other parts of the internet.

But yeah, Reddit is where it first like took off. And when we come back, more with Lena Morris. How serious is youth vaping? Irreversible lung damage serious. One in ten kids vape serious, which warrants a serious conversation from a serious parental figure like yourself. Not the seriously know-it-all sports dad or the seriously smart podcaster. It requires a serious conversation that is best had by you. No, seriously, the best person to talk to your child about vaping is you.

To start the conversation, visit talkaboutvaping.org. Brought to you by the American Lung Association and the Ad Council. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney, and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all. new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the shrimp to make it to the other side.

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My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed. From a very rural background myself, my dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin, so like it's not like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. Well, 22nd of July 2015.

A 23-year-old man had a... killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A foot washed up, a shoe with.

with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was. Most everything was burned up pretty good from the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable. These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA. Using new scientific tools, they're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss. He never thought he was going to get caught, and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just

like, ah, gotcha. On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors, and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at Othrum, the Houston Lab that takes on the most hopeless cases, to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if one bad decision? forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to

be hell on earth. Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing, strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming and you don't know who's next to you.

And we didn't know what to expect in the morning. Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to 16th minute, and let's jump right back into my interview with the overly attached girlfriend, Lena Morris. Take me through the day that you're realizing that this is a thing. Did you feel like the meme format, like, captured what you were going for originally? Oh, yeah. I think so. I mean, I'm also like, I feel very lucky that I'm like in on the joke of it, too. I think a lot of memes, like, don't have that, which I feel like it became this big joke online.

I just feel like lucky that I'm in on that joke. And it wasn't just like a regular picture of me smiling that everyone was like, oh, look at this creepy girl. Having all the internet brain rot knowledge that I have knowing like, oh, well, this person was in on the reason they became famous, this person had to meet the moment and decide how do I want to cope with it? So I think, yeah, that's a great point. So was it ever uncomfortable in those early days to like see your image everywhere? Did it feel like you'd like lost any sort of like agency over your own image? Was it exciting? Yeah, it was. I think my memories of that time are mostly like it was just like really exciting. I think the internet certainly took it and ran. Like I, you know, I didn't call, I didn't come up with overly attached girlfriend as like a name for the meme. I didn't make it a meme.

And so I feel like the internet very much took this thing and like made it their own and it sort of like fell out of my hands pretty quickly. in a lot of ways, but I remember it just feeling like really cool. I can't believe this is happening, like it's posted here, and now it's posted here. I can't believe like this person has seen my face. There did come a point where I felt really disconnected from the meme, and I will, like, even now sometimes, obviously it doesn't happen as often, but I'll just like randomly stumble upon it every now and then.

And it feels much more like, oh, there's my meme rather than like there's me or like my face or I don't know. there's like some disconnect that happened at some point yeah i think my overall my memory of it is like very positive and like overwhelming but in like a very fun exciting way i do think it was out of my hands a bit pretty quickly but not in a way that felt negative back then you could send people messages on youtube like direct messages and so my inbox was a little flooded but mostly with just like random people there was like no other way to contact me at first also accept that. Then when I posted the second video and that kind of blew up a little bit

as well, that's when I think I started getting a lot more like people reach. I had like some management reach out at that time like wanting to work together and things like that. But I think that that was after I sort of kept it going with that second video. So there is like sort of this moment where you post the first video as a joke. You're basically assigned a character kind of. You've written it yourself, but it's also sort of being co-created by people making the meme. All right, cool, let's make another one. How do you go through this period of deciding, you know what, I want to keep this going? And then what do I want this to look like? Well, but before any of this happened, I really wanted to be in entertainment in some capacity. And I just never pursued it

because it felt like an impossible thing. I didn't know what to do. Like, I remember talking to my dad once about, like, what if I just moved to L.A.? And then I'm like, but what do I do when I get there? Like, I don't have money. Like, I don't know. I just. remember being like, I want to be in this world, but I don't know how. So that was in me a little bit. And I had made videos with friends like in college and stuff, just like silly and goofy videos that I think were posted and taken down at some point. And so like it was in me a little bit. Like I remember posting silly videos with my friends on and maybe it was like on their channel or something and like watching and seeing like, oh, I wonder if anyone else will see this,

whatever. And that way I was there. So when that took off, it was like really exciting. And I knew some people were like doing it full time. I started. getting like followers. I made a Twitter. People started following me on Twitter. I decided to post that second video. And then I think after the second video, I was like, okay, I think this could actually be like a job or like a thing I could really pursue. And I remember talking to my parents about it then. And then that's also when like some management reached out. That's when I started thinking like, oh, this could be a thing I could really pursue and could be really good. I think I just thought at that time like I'll just go with it for as long as it works and see what happens. I'm so

glad you mentioned the thing about like my brain not being fully developed because I feel like at the time like being 20, 21, I felt so old. I felt like such an adult. And then now at 33, I can like look back and I have like, you did not know what was happening to you and your world got so crazy so quickly. But there was so much of me at the time in like my early 20s that when things got like challenging. There was a lot of like, why can't I figure out how to do this, how to maintain this, whatever. All that to say, it's just like validating to hear you say that because It's so different, like, looking back at that time now versus being in the thick of it in the moment. And that not only are you young and having to sort of make these decisions, because of the nature of the

internet, I imagine you had to make them pretty quickly. I mean, I know that there were, this was like the early days of YouTubers and internet personalities making a full-time living work. So in 2012, like, what was the kind of advice you were getting? Like, what was the path that was sort of laid before you at this time. I imagine it's changed a lot over the years, but maybe not. Oh, it's definitely changed. In fact, when I was thinking about making a second YouTube video recently, there was a part of me that's like, I really need to make something about, like, becoming a meme in 2012 versus like 24. For some reason, I've been getting a lot of people asking me about the Hock Tula girl. And like, I don't know why, because it's such a vastly different time. What advice would you give her? What did you ask me?

The advice I was getting at the time. So I remember, like, I did the thing that immediately, popped into my brain when you asked me that was I did this interview for a radio station like pretty early on it was one of my very first interviews I ever and I remember the host of this radio show trying to like I don't know just like kind of like tell me what I should do how I should handle it and I remember him telling me you need to make a Facebook like a public Facebook you need to upload photos of yourself that aren't in character like you need to post as Lena I remember I came up with the fake last name for that interview because he was like, you know, you might not want your last name out there, which I think that's a huge difference, 2012 versus now. Everyone's like,

oh, don't give your name out, which is honestly, like, kind of stuck with me. I still don't have my last name on my social. That fake last name I gave back then is still pops up as like people thinking it's my last name. So like funny advice like that that I think would never be given now. Yeah, I think when I signed with like a management, that was like all new and I was just like, yeah, tell me what to do. I don't know. I understand why people are asking you about Huck to a girl. There are enough similarities between the trajectories that I understand why people are asking where it's like a similar age, someone who is in on the joke. And all of a sudden there's management involved. And it seems like the question is like, okay, what now? Like, what do we do?

I went back and sort of went through in like that first year, a lot of mainstream appearances and like crossover into mainstream media. What was that period like? Are there any appearances or things that stand out to you? I think the current. crazy is the one that stands out to me and that was like the most fun was I got to be on jimmy fallon that was so cool I just I was that whole experience was awesome my manager called me and said there was like this writer at fallon they were wondering if I would happen to be in new york at this like period of time if so like they would want me to do this thing on the show and I was like I will happen to be in new york at whatever time like yeah so I like got my own ticket flew there

with my I took like my best friend with me it was just like a magical experience we got this hotel you got like the driver picked us up to take us to the studio it was so much fun that is like the memory that stands out to me the most once you're on youtube full time and like adjusting to that grind were you balancing it with auditioning for other stuff and like where where did you want things to head at that time or were you being pressured in any particular direction i started posting regularly after that second one it became my job pretty quickly or it just i mean it became I started making money from it pretty quickly, even just from like the first video. So I stuck with YouTube, mostly just doing YouTube.

And then very quickly, I think the conversation came up just with like friends that were also doing YouTube and like management and stuff of like what, where do we want this to go? Do you want to act? Do you want to do stand up? Do you want to write? Whatever. I felt really overwhelmed with like not knowing what to do or how to do it. I also at the time, I had a really, really difficult time with feeling like I have to move to L.A. like I just have to. I felt a lot of pressure to do that. I felt like if I pursue anything in this

world and this industry, I just have to be there. And I felt really conflicted with my life in Texas versus like, do I go to L.A.? It's so like, I can't have, I like shouldn't have regrets. But when I look back and I'm like, I was like, oh, I hope if I moved to L.A. I might break up with my boyfriend. So I shouldn't do that. And like I just like little like 2021 year old thoughts where I'm just like Yeah, I feel like very quickly, I got really stuck, not knowing what to do. I felt a lot of pressure to figure out what to do. I would start to think, like, okay, maybe I want to act, and then I would go back on that and be like, I don't know, like, who am I to, like, decide all of a sudden I'm an actor

just because I posted this, like, YouTube video. I want to write, but I don't know how to pursue that. I wasn't doing, like, auditions or anything, but there are things I look back on now. there were certainly opportunities that I had them, that I don't have now that I didn't take because I was just like so afraid or unsure of what to do. And like I can't really regret it because I look back at that version of me and I'm like, of course, like, of course you were overwhelmed. You had no idea what to do.

But at the same time, it's like, oh my gosh, like the things I could have done had I just not been afraid to do them. But yeah, there was no, there was certainly pressure to like do something else. of YouTube, but there was no, I felt very frozen and stuck and not knowing what direction to go. And I just kind of didn't and stuck with YouTube. When we come back, more with the overly attached girlfriend, Lena Morris. Don't let biased algorithms or degree screens or exclusive professional networks or stereotypes. Don't let anything keep you from discovering the half of the workforce who are stars.

Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time to tear the paper ceiling and see the stars beyond it. Find out how you can make stars part of your talent strategy at tear the paper sealing.org. Brought to you by opportunity at work in the ad council. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney and every Tuesday I'll be sharing. all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color

who faced it all. Childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential to inform it, but he wasn't shot on the street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. My name is Ed. Everyone say hello, Ed.

From a very rural background myself, my dad is a farmer and my mom is a cousin, so like, it's not, like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. Well, 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man, had a... killed his family. And then he came to my house.

So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our IHeart Radio Music Festival. Presented by Capital One is coming back to Las Vegas. Vegas. September 19th and 20th.

On your feet. Streaming live only on Hulu. Ladies and gentlemen. Brian Adams. Ed Sheeran. Fade. Glorilla. Jelly Roll.

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you get your podcasts. Welcome back to 16th minute. It's the most wonderful time of the year. And by that, I mean that for some reason, Peewee's big adventurers back in theaters and I just got tickets to a haunted hayride. And here is the rest of my talk with Lena Morris. So when you were making those early videos,

yeah, I mean, were you making them completely alone? Like, how were those early videos coming together once it became your job? I was making them alone. I think that's pretty obvious if you go back and watch them. There's no, like, there's so many people that I feel like say, and this is true. This is true for a lot of people. They'll be like, well, like doing YouTube, you're like the writer and the director and you're the actor and you're the editor. And like anytime I see that I'm like, yeah, but like I felt like for a very long time like this,

when I'm hesitating because I don't want to, I think just me personally not. else's experience. Like, I think I wasn't putting as much work into it as, like, for a long time I was like getting out of it, if that makes sense. Like, I just felt like, this isn't like that hard, but also I'm not really like doing anything big. There was no big like production in my videos. There were a lot of people that were doing that. I think one thing that I realized recently, especially with like thinking about coming back to YouTube, I immediately was sucked into this thing and then felt pressure to post every week, but with no plan and like no experience doing it, I was like learning how along the way. I was learning how to edit as I was going and thinking

about it now, it's like, but it could be more in that mindset, looking at it as a job in a different way than I think I did back then. Back then it was so like, I just felt all the time. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. I have no idea what I'm doing. And I guess I'll post like this. I look back at some videos and a lot of them are private enough for that reason, but I'll look back at a video, watch it, watch this version of me that talks for like two minutes and it's like, okay, well, see you next week. And I'm like, what have I done? Look, what did I spend that whole week doing? That's like, that's it. But I think I just like never had a chance to just like step back and think like, what do I want this to be? I was just in it. And like, I don't know. Very often

this overwhelming feeling of like, what am I doing? Like once or twice a year, I would get together with these friends at these YouTube conventions. And it was the first time, the only time in the year that I got to be around people that did what I did and talk about it and like, how are you doing this? And what do you do for whatever? Like that's just, it was a very like lonely thing that I didn't have a lot of, yeah, like direction except for just looking at what are other people doing. There wasn't a whole lot of direction from the outside, I don't think. In the years you were doing YouTube consistently, navigating parisocial relationships, navigating audience expectations or even perceived audience expectations. I'm curious of how you dealt with the relationship with your audience.

That was hard because it was just like a lot of people all at once, all wanting to see different things, me not knowing where to take it, what to do. To be honest, it was like a decent amount of men on the internet. And that was like really hard to handle, like navigate. How do I handle like these situations that would come up that sometimes would put me in a position to feel a little like uncomfortable or even at certain points like unsafe. It's not a normal experience for people to like have all these people that you don't know, just like know you and want to like talk to you and want different things. And that being said, it's also like really cool. I had a lot of really good experiences. I think it just took some time to get used to. It took some time to figure out

how to kind of like disconnect from this like version of me that's online versus my like personal life and so at what point in making the regular youtube content did you start to struggle with mental health and it also seems like some burnout and pressure and yeah what when did that start it started a year and a half and or so maybe a little sooner than that i made a video and i can't i can't actually remember when this was the first time i cried on the internet talking about how like i didn't know what i was doing and i was unsure but it was around that time when i started to just feel like Like, I didn't have any direction, and I didn't know where to go from there. There was also, like, there is something about when you start way up at the top,

which is a very lucky thing I got to experience having, like, my first video go viral, but also there's really, like, nowhere to go, but down after that. And so, like, for a long time, everything I posted, I'm like, if it doesn't go viral, I'm failing. Ridiculous, because especially back then, it's like, you don't get viral videos very often, if at all. yeah I just started to feel like I don't know I don't really know what I'm doing I don't know what direction to go with this it's also like I was at a point in my life where all my friends are graduating college starting their careers and I am like here I am alone in my apartment filming a silly video and there's also something to be said for like working from home spending all of your time alone I think when I look back now I'm like a year and a half or so in that makes sense to me because that's kind of when the energy and craziness of like the viral moment sort of started to wear down and now it's just like I'm stuck with okay now now what kind of feeling and I did I did drive out of school to pursue that and that was some pressure

like I also just like I struggled with my mental health for a lot of reasons I think that just never having a moment to figure it out or take a break or it just sort of spiraled from there I guess how long were you in that holding pattern a long time when you are like I have to keep going or I lose this then you're also creating content you're not happy with or that's my experience i honestly think that there was a part of me not that was like doing it on purpose but i certainly wasn't putting my all into what i was creating and i think that that was there was a part of me that was using it as like kind of a way to protect myself like if i'm not super happy with what i'm making then the numbers being bad or the reaction being bad doesn't hurt as much because i'm like oh yeah i know like i didn't try

super hard on that and that's easier than like putting my all into this and then failing I feel like when you're when you're working your job and you're like not doing a great job at it like it's not normal for like everyone in your life to be able to go look and see that that's happening that was hard because I feel like it's so obvious there's like numbers right there in front of you that people are seeing yeah I think I was burnt out without knowing what burnout was at that time and feeling like I don't know what I'm doing I feel pressure whatever I remember other YouTubers reaching out to me after that and being like I feel that too and like you're not alone in this this is hard whatever and then it got to a point where I don't know exactly when but almost every

YouTube convention I would go to there would be a conversation just like a room full of YouTubers being like what are we doing like you know like that was a pretty common conversation or people would like talk about feeling burnt out or a lot of people would move to other platforms because they felt better in certain ways. And I remember when the goal for all of us was like hitting a million subscribers. Like I remember you knew when another creator like hit a million subscribers. And then you're counting down to when you hit a million subscribers. That was like a big goal we all had. And you know, like it's just so interesting to see now there are people with like millions and millions of subscribers. It's almost like when everyone has it. Anyway, I think that

there was like this excitement about it in the beginning, this like thing we were all doing these goals or whatever. And then it became like flooded with so much more people. It started to become more mainstream. It started to become more like a career for people. People were getting kind of launched into the mainstream space and wondering if they should leave YouTube. What are we doing? It was always like, what are you going to do next? What are you going to do outside of this? Whereas now like that is a conversation, but also a lot of people are just doing YouTube and that's it. And that's great. And like the end. And like this is, and I don't feel like that was as much as of the conversation 10 years ago. And while you're navigating all of this, you also made the decision to go into therapy. What motivated you to finally go for it? And then further down the line, what motivated you to share sort of that journey with with your viewers?

I think in 2013, I started to struggle with my mental health, but I didn't really know that. I think my manager at the time actually told me, that she felt like I should go to therapy. But I said something like, I feel like you could hand me everything I've ever wanted on a silver platter right now. And I would be like, do I have to, like, get up? You have to like, like, that was like the feeling. Like I could have everything. And I almost felt that way.

I felt like he did kind of have everything I wanted, or at least the opportunity to. And I was like, ah, just like, just so overwhelmed. And then there's all this guilt that comes with that, right? because then you're, like, living this life you really want to live, but then you're, like, not happy. And then several years later, I moved. I moved to Arizona when I was 26.

Pretty soon after that, maybe a year after moving. I remember, like, thinking I needed some help, maybe with my mental health. And then one moment that really sticks out in my mind is my partner at the time and I were, like, in an argument, something. I was overreacting, which was a very, like, I feel like there was a lot of that when my mental health was that it's worse. it was a lot of overreacting to a lot of things like if i didn't have a video that week it would just be like it would like kill me and i would just like be like beating myself up over it i couldn't do

anything else and we were having a fight and i was overreacting not being great in that argument and then i went to the room to like be alone he came in and he was like just very sweet and kind and giving me a lot of grace he was like do you think it's time for you to get some help and like I think that moment it sticks out of my mind, especially because I was just, I don't know, I was being so obnoxious and then for their reaction to be like, hey, I like know you and I think maybe it's time. And I think I started reaching out to therapists after that. Then I started therapy and it was amazing. But I think I really needed to go at a time where I came to terms with that myself. What sort of led to the decision to take a step back from YouTube? So when I moved,

from Texas to Arizona, I had already, I think the move was overwhelming, just, you know, my life changed quite a bit, not having my community there, just a lot of it was like very overwhelming and I took a step back from YouTube. And in my head, I was like, oh, I'm just going to take like a week or two and get moved and whatever. And then I just like didn't really go back or like I made a video every now and then. But it was in my head. I think I just thought at first, like, I'm definitely going to go back. Then I wasn't going back. Then I was like, well, I can't just leave without saying anything for some reason it was like really important to me to make a video if i'm gonna stop i wanted like say goodbye in therapy i started talking about youtube and like what does that

look like from this point on do i want to do anything outside of youtube and then like very slowly i started to be like well do i even want to go back at all right do i quit if i quit what does that look like what does it feel like there was a lot of like homework assignments for my therapist that was like right about how it would feel to walk away from this you know like what does it feel Like, as soon as I started entertaining the idea of like walking away from YouTube, it was almost like, oh, I can do this thing that I like very clearly need to do. The last video I made where I just like said goodbye to YouTube was actually my therapist told me like to film a goodbye video and kind of see how that felt. And that is the video that I ended up posting. And so I think with filming, it was like as soon as I started, my body knew like, oh here, this is it.

Like we're quitting and this is right. So that's kind of how it got to that point. time I started thinking about quitting YouTube to the time I made the video telling everyone I was quitting YouTube was probably like a little over a year. So that's in 2019 and I know that the community reaction was universally supportive. How do you return to your life without this thing that's been a part of it for like your whole adulthood up to this point? Yeah, that was hard. I think I had to really grieve a loss. Like I said, I hadn't like really been posting for a while, but I think something about just like making it official and like making a goodbye and stepping away was like really hard. Yeah, it truly felt like I had to like grieve a loss, almost like a

relationship. Like I was like, okay, this thing that I just like know and it has become like my identity almost is just like gone, which might be a little dramatic because I know I still online still doing things, but I think the initial feeling felt very dramatic. I also was really focusing on my mental health and my personal life and like really. relationships in my personal life. To be totally honest, like, I don't talk about my personal life super publicly, but like a lot has changed in the years since quitting. I think like quitting and then focusing on like my happiness and like, okay, what? So burnt out and struggling so much with this. And like now my energy is on like everything else. And like, what do I need to do for like myself and my happiness? And yeah, it was difficult. It was hard. But also there was just this freedom that came with it and like this weight off my shoulders. And, I have the gift of like time to just focus on myself and that's what I did by the time I quit I had

already like not posted for a while very regularly it didn't feel like a crazy big switch in my life and then I guess just to like bring us up to the present and in the last five years now that you're sort of into into YouTube what are things that positive negative indifferent there was a whole pandemic somewhere in the middle somewhere in there yeah well I mean I did have this like very big sort of life-changing experience in therapy where I really shifted my focus on myself and like what do I want or need and my happiness which is just a thing I never did before which has changed my life in a lot of ways now I'm in a place where I can look back on this time like the last like 10 12 years and see it very differently and look at it through a lens of just like I don't

know I think I was just so hard on myself for so long so much pressure for so long I can look back now be like, of course you felt these things. I feel like I'm in a place where it's kind of like healing to look back and like think about or more than like frustrating and like what was I doing and why didn't I take these opportunities and having all these regrets and whatever. Now it's just like, oh yeah, that makes sense. This was a crazy thing that I went through. That makes sense.

Yeah, my life looks pretty different. I don't know. I mean, I haven't talked about this publicly. I did go through a breakup with someone I was with for 10 years. So a big shift and like a and just like learning. life alone, kind of getting to know myself in a different way the last few years. Yeah, it's hard because I feel like life feels so different, but there's not a whole lot of like concrete things I can point to figuring out my mental health, my medication, getting my mind right. I feel like

I've grown up a lot in the last five years, but also I feel like that it flew by so quickly and I'm like, oh, nothing's happened. So, so I don't know, I somehow feel both at the same time. I wouldn't want to be the person I was four years ago because then, you know, what was all the the pain and frustration of going through whatever you go through it, four years for. It's a weird two-hander. I'm glad that you're coming back. It seems like on your own terms and at your own pace. I would love to go back to YouTube.

I'm very cautious and want to do it in a way that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think we're just kind of like, I'm going to take it slowly and see how it feels, but it certainly feels like I'm approaching it from a very different place. And there was a time when I felt like really disappointed that for a long time just thought, I had this like dream I really wanted like I had the time to create the creative outlet the an audience and like it's it's too bad that I had to give that up it's too bad that just like didn't work and then for the first time recently I've been thinking like well do like do I have to like maybe I go back now and maybe that just looks drastically different so yeah I don't know what's

going to happen but I do feel I have a little more control over it than I felt like I had for a really long time. I think that I think it's just like a crazy like and I've been thinking about this when people ask me about the hawk to a girl specifically. I saw an interview with her where she talked about like she was talking about her experience since that video and like it was a couple of days after and she's like oh I didn't have management yet. Said it so casually like of course that's what you do when you go viral and I feel like now it's a different experience and it honestly I think going viral in 2024 is not something I would be able to handle. it was hard enough 10 years ago, but now, I don't know, I feel like it's so many more eyes,

it's so many more like expectations. But when she said that, I was just like, oh, this is just a given. Like you go viral and boom, it's your job. And like, this is your life. And like now you have management. Now you take, it's just, it's, I mean, I don't know. I think it's a lot to handle it at any time. But all that to say, I just think it's a really different experience now versus then. And it just seems like a lot now. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us and being so candid. I really. appreciate it. Of course, thank you. Thank you so much. This is a lot of fun. I enjoyed it a lot. Thank you so much to Lena for her time and her vulnerability, and you can follow her at the

links in the description. Whatever she decides to do, I so admire that she's doing it on her own terms. I did this interview about a month ago, and it really has stuck with me and had me thinking again about what pressure there is on creators, and that even when one is really lucky to be the position to work on something that they care about and enjoy full-time, that the pressure to continue creating at an increasingly fast rate is unrelenting and painful, no matter how much you love what you do or appreciate the people that you make it for. I've only talked to her this once, but I'm genuinely proud of Lena for extracting herself from that rat race when she realized how it was affecting her health. I think creative burnout and how this kind of pressure

affects one's mental health should be discussed among people across industries. And while it's a privilege to be able to afford to step back, I think more people should do it. Take the time to work on themselves and come back when they're ready. So I thank Lena for imparting that lesson. And with that, Lena Morris, the overly attached girlfriend, your 16th minute ends now. Unless... Thank you so much for everyone being here.

Genuinely, it means a lot to me. Please like, subscribe, leave a review for this show. There's a Reddit board that I'm afraid to check. I'm glad you're here. This is very much a labor of love. And here's your moment of fun. 16th Minute is a production of Cool Zone Media and IHeart Radio. It is written, posted, and...

produced by me, Jamie Loftus. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichten and Robert Evans. The Amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor. Our theme song is by Sad 13. And pet shout-outs to our dog producer Anderson, my cats fleeing Casper, and my pet rockbird who will outlive us all. Bye. Bye.

It's Black Business Month and Black Tech Green Money is tapping in. I'm Will Lucas spotlighting black founders, investors, and innovators, building the future, one idea at a time. Let's talk legacy, tech, and generational wealth. I had the skill and I had the talent. I didn't have the opportunity. Yeah. We all know, right? Genius is evenly distributed.

Opportunity is not. To hear this and more on the power of black innovation and ownership, listen to Black Tech Green Money from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Eyeheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When your car is making a strange noise, no matter what it is, you can't just pretend it's not happening. That's an interesting sound. It's like your mental health. If you're struggling and feeling overwhelmed, it's important to do something about it. It can be as simple as talking to someone, or just taking a deep, calming breath to ground yourself. Because once you start to address the problem, you can go so much further.

The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have resources available for you at loveyourmind today.org. Tune in to All the Smoke podcast, where Matt and Stacks sit down with former first lady, Michelle Obama. Folks find it hard to hate up close. And when you get to know people, you're sitting in their kitchen tables, and they're talking like we're talking. You know, you hear our story, how we grew up, how Barack grew up, and you get a chance for people to unpack and get beyond race. All the Smoke featuring Michelle Obama. To hear this podcast and more, open your free IHeart Radio app, search all the smoke and listen now. The U.S. Open is here, and on my podcast, Good Game with Sarah Spain, I'm breaking down the players, the predictions, the pressure, and of course, the honey deuses, the signature cocktail of the U.S. Open.

The U.S. Open has gotten to be a very wonderfully experiential sporting event. To hear this and more, listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain, an Iheart women's sports production in partnership with deep blue sports and entertainment on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart. Women's Sports Network. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebeney, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney, and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network.

Tune in on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an IHeart podcast.