Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) - the wicked witch of the east, bro

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

A video of two Canadian men screaming at each other about whether Glinda the Good Witch was a witch or a princess has been going viral every six months since 2018... but no one knows who they are. UNTIL NOW. Jamie sits down with living legend Matt Passero to talk about his moment of infinite virality, why he's the rare character of the day who wants nothing to do with the spotlight, and why Glinda is a princess, actually. WE GOT THE EXCLUSIVE, BABY!  Follow Day Bond and see Matt's tattoo here!: https://www.tiktok.com/@illustday?_t=8rtk7rNUdzT&_r=1 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebeney, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney, and every Tuesday I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, this ain't it. This is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft, and whole.

The Unwanted Sorority is where black women, fims, and gender expansive survivors of sexual violence rewrite the rules on healing, support, and what happens after. And I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Leah Trettae. Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, New Episodes, Everythus, Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you.

Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different. What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? Answer, a new podcast called Wisecrack, where a comedian finds himself

at the center of a chilling true crime story. Does anyone know what show they've come to see? It's a story. It's about the scariest night of my life. This is Wisecrack, available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA. Right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

On the new podcast, America's Crime Lab, every case has a story to tell. And the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology is already solving so many cases. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So there's a movie that just came out. Maybe you've heard about it.

Who are now? Little fish. Fix it. No, not that one. What am I five years old? It is an art. Choosing gladiators. They're usually prisoners of war. No, not that one. What am I? 5,000 years old? Although at least I hear Ridley Scott allowed men's thighs to be in this one. No, the movie. The movie that anyone who's ever been a 10-year-old theater kid has been looking forward to for 20 years. Are people born wicked?

Or do they have wickedness thrust upon them? Yes. Yes. Wicked Part 1 is in theaters and it's good and everyone likes it. And if you're like, Jamie, I thought you were a guy's girl. Why have you seen Wicked more than once? Well, guess what? I've seen it three times. And being a musical theater fan is not a gendered experience, okay? And also, I am a huge Wizard of Oz fan in general. Always have been. It's my favorite movie and in middle school, I made that my own. entire personality in the way that middle schoolers do. I thought, hey, if I know every single thing that happens in the Wizard of Oz expanded universe, maybe no one will notice that I have a back brace, teeth braces, and hand me down glasses with frames from the 80s. Didn't work, but I retained a lot. I love the 1939 classic movie starring Judy Garland. I love the L. Frank Bomb books, which were far more complicated and weird than the movie. is. I loved learning about the other adaptations, The Whiz, Return to Oz, and most famously,

an entire novel I wrote in eighth grade called Rosalie of Oz that I sometimes kind of want to record an audiobook for, like, for fun. I am not a fake fan. I know my shit. And just as I was getting really into Oz lore during those middle school years, I learned that there was another piece of lore on Broadway called Wicked, the true story of the Wicked Witch of the West, who in the adaptation is named Elfaithrop in her college frenemy, Glinda, formerly Galinda Upland, based on the book's Wicked and Son of a Witch by Gregory McGuire, which we won't get into in this episode. They're pornographic. They're really fucked up. Anyways, there's a lot of lore surrounding Oz, and Glinda specifically. So when the Wicked movie was finally

supposed to be coming out and at this point this is a movie based on a musical based on a book based on a movie based on a book series from over a hundred years ago babe i was ready but let's be honest not everyone knows as much about wizard of osloor as i do and particularly the subject of today's episode of 16th minute so before we begin and get into our story i need to give a quick lesson Who is Glinda the Good Witch? Well, it's a bit of a complicated question, and I am going to spare you all of the pornographic details of Gregory McGuire's novel, Wicked.

Let me tell you about Ms. Glinda, because many of you are not educated, and by many of you, I do mean the 11-year-old sitting next to me at the last time I saw Wicked, who turned to their older sibling and asked if Wicked was based on something. Okay, bitch. Glinda is a character that most people were introduced to in the Victor Fleming directed Judy Garland starring 1939 movie adaptation. An absolute classic.

And in that movie, she is a beautiful blonde woman in a big pink ball gown who comes down to meet our protagonist, Northie, in a big pink bubble, introducing herself as the good witch of the North. However, she is of course introduced first in El Frank Baum's classic children's book, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, all the way back in 1900. And while this is the version of Glinda that most people are familiar with prior to the release of Wicked, in the source material, Glinda is not the good witch of the North. She is the good witch of the South. The 1939 adaptation composites both of these parts into a single character. But in the book, Glinda doesn't appear at the beginning and the end as in the movie, but only at the end.

In the book, The Witch of the North is a completely different person. She is an older-looking woman with far less magical powers than Glinda, who is called either La Costa or Tadipoo, depending on which book in the series you're reading. And it's this witch, La Costa, who is the one that gives Dorothy what we know as the Ruby Slippers, if you're a movie fan, or are the silver slippers in both the source material and in Wicked. These are the shoes that are taken from the Wicked Witch of the East after she's crushed by Dorothy's house, and the Wicked Witch of the North, La Costa, enchants these shoes with a protection charm for Dorothy's journey to the Emerald City. And it's not that she doesn't want to do more for Dorothy. That's

just all her magic can accomplish. That's the limits of her power. Then, at the end of the story, Glinda, the good witch of the South, appears for the first time. Dorothy has now met the scarecrow, the tin man, and the lion, they've gone to see the wizard at the Emerald City, they've killed the Wicked Witch of the West in exchange for their heart's desires from the wizard, only to find out that he is a total fraud from Nebraska. And then Glinda arrives,

and is a far more powerful witch than her foot-freak colleague in the north. Dorothy and Company traveled to the south of Oz, to meet Glinda, who then tells Dorothy how to get home using her silver shoes. Glinda the Good Witch of the South looks far closer to the movie adaptation we're used to seeing with Billy Burke. She's young and beautiful, with long red flowing hair and blue eyes, and she's suggested to be immortal. And while she only appears at the end of the first book, she later becomes a far more important and active character. El Frank Baum wrote 14 Oz books in his lifetime. and other authors picked up the series where he left off,

and Glinda becomes a huge part of finding the rightful ruler of Oz, the child princess, Osma. Princess, remember that. And I know you're thinking, does Glinda have an all-women's militia? Yes, she does. Amazing. But in the 1939 movie,

which I am assuming you are far more familiar with, Glinda is a composite of these two characters, as played by iconic vaudeville actress Billy Burke. Let the joyous news be spread, the wicked old witch had lost his day. This Glinda appears twice in the story, appearing first to give Dorothy the ruby slippers, not the silver as in the book, and then returns at the end to finally tell her how to use them.

Hmm, that doesn't always sit well with viewers as they get older, because 1939 Glinda lets Dorothy languish in terms. the trenches, almost dying for most of the movie, and then just kind of popped back up at the end and it's like, oh yeah, you actually could have gone home the whole time. I just thought if I told you, you wouldn't believe me. You've always had the power to go back to Kansas. I have. Then why didn't you tell her before? Because she wouldn't have believed me. She had to learn it for herself. And, like, what are you talking about? She would have believed you. And so over the years, if you're over-analyzing this movie, which is a whole cottage industry,

it could seem like Glinda is kind of messing with Dorothy this whole time in order to ostensibly teach her a lesson about appreciating never moving out of Kansas. Begging the question, if Glinda's so good, why did she let this child almost die so many times? That's a bit of an oversimplification, and there's a million other versions of this character. but those two are the primary versions of Glinda being referenced in Wicked and in today's story. Glinda, Galinda, Tadipoo, whichever version of this character was introduced to you earliest is probably the one that you hold most dear. She is pink, she is hyperfeminine, she's powerful, she's kind allegedly. But if you haven't encountered this character in a couple of decades, maybe your memory of her is a little hazy.

Maybe you're not like me and tempted to bully every 11-year-old you meet at an AMC. Which brings us to today's subject. A viral clip where two grown men are intensely fighting about this very character, Glinda the Good, in 2018. You've maybe seen this video if you have spent any time online in the last 10 years. But my God, congratulations if this is the first time you're hearing it. It's a classic. Hold on! Hold on! Hold on! Hold on. Her sister was a witch, right? And what was her sister? A princess. The Wicked Witch of the East, bro.

Matt Pacerro, the Wicked Witch of the East Pro, your 16th minute starts now. Let's take it down the phone And give me one more minute Let me see me 60 minute of fame Sixteen minute of fame Sixteen minute of fame One more minute of fame

I'm not so bad Welcome back to the most I'm not so bad when you're sitting here on the internet characters are so you're going to be more internet. And I could not be more excited for this week's episode. It is truly my dream episode. So let's just get right into it. Q. Idina Menzel.

Thank you so much. Q. Cynthia Arrivo. Thank you so much. I'm your host, Jamie Loftus. And by the time this episode comes out, I will have seen Wicked Part 1 three times in theaters and have tickets to see the touring production with my mom in January.

And while I have not personally been blessed with any musical talent outside of being extremely good at the oboe in high school. Yes, thank you so much. That was me. Variations on a Korean folk song, early 2010s. That's called talent. So after making you wait a whole week,

we're back with an exclusive interview. The first this man has done in years with Matt Pissaro, the Wicked Witch, of the East Bro. Now, it's possible you haven't seen this video at all. And it's possible that you saw it almost six years ago when it first went viral. And now it's quite possible you saw it go viral in the last two weeks as the Wicked Movie and its super fans began using the audio from that clip as lip sync tracks everywhere from TikTokers dressed up like Glinda to, and I'm not kidding, Ariana Grande herself, lip syncing to the clip with famed William Hung impersonator Jimmy Fallon.

But in case this is your point of entry, we're going to take a full look at how this clip, which goes viral multiple times a year, regardless of whether there is a new Oz property making a billion dollars at the box office, a little closer. So here, I'm going to tell you what we knew when I began working on this episode. And in our exclusive interview with the Wikibitch of the Eastbro himself, Matt Pissero, you'll learn a lot more about some of the most commonly asked questions about this moment in internet history. But first, we've got to break this thing down. Come with me, if you dare, to spring 2018.

There's a salmonella outbreak in the Midwest. A beautiful woman named Jamie Loftus performs her show, I Lost My Virginity on August 15th, 2010. And somewhere in Canada, Matt Pacerro is caught on camera having a very spirited argument with another man, possibly named Doug, about whether Glinda is a witch or a princess. And look, now that you graduated from my Glinda 101 course,

you've arrived armed with knowledge. And Matt does not have that benefit, so let's hear him out. I'm going to break down this clip because a lot happens in the 23 seconds that it lasts. The energy immediately is at an 11. Matt, who is a white guy in a black hoodie and jeans with blonde hair, that is very intentionally flopping as he expresses his opinion gesturing with these intense prayer hands. He is, as you will hear, screaming at another white guy with a shaved head wearing a plaid shirt who seems sort of annoyed but also kind of entertained.

It's important to note that there is nothing within the frame of the video that indicates how or why this argument started, only that it seems to have been going on for a while at this point. So knowing what we now do about Glinda, let's fact-check Matt's argument. He starts like this. Hold on, hold on, hold on, her sister was a witch, right? Okay, okay, so we're not absolutely sure who's being talked about at the very beginning when Matt says her, but I'm going to assume he means the Wicked Witch of the West here. And that is correct, technically.

The Wicked Witch of the West does have a sister, the Wicked Witch of the East, and Wicked is the character Nessa Rose, and in the movie, is crushed by Dorothy's house. You know, my sister. Who kills the Witch of the East? As it you? Okay, Matt, you can continue. Right? And what was her sister?

A princess? The Wicked Witch of the East, bro. So at this point in the video, Matt is walking away, kind of like, mic drop style. While the other guy is still frustrated but laughing, and the person holding the camera is, like, laughing their ass off. So fact check. Everything he says here is wrong. He's talking as if all witches are sisters, I guess. That's not true. Furthermore, none of them are princesses. As we learned, there is a princess of Oz named Osma, but she doesn't appear in the 1939 adaptation that they seem to be talking about. So he's wrong. And the guy in the plaid shirt is getting really aggravated.

Let's see if Matt can stick the landing here. I'm going to stab him. You're going to look at me and you're going to tell me that I'm wrong. Am I wrong? So much happens in this four seconds. So the guy in the plaid shirt, who Matt's yelling at, smiles at the camera and says, quote, I'm going to stab him, unquote,

before taking a switchblade out of what appears to be thin fucking air. He walks towards Matt, who is walking away, still yelling at volume a million. And I think a lot of people have had this experience with this video, But I, like, never noticed that there is a knife in this video until I had watched it over 20 times. Not only because it's just in frame for a second, but because Matt sees and doesn't react to it. And the other guy doesn't seem serious about actually using it, which begs the question, who are these men to each other? But, okay, let's let Matt finish. Am I wrong?

She wore a crown and she came down in a balcony, though. I'm not fighting with you. This is the most famous part of the video. She wore a crown and came down in a bubble dug, which, again, that does not make you a princess. And assuming they're talking about the movie, which they definitely are, I'm tempted to cut Matt some slack here if it weren't for the fact that one of Glinda the good witch's most famous lines addresses this explicitly. I am a witch. I'm Glinda, the witch of the north. You are? I beg your pardon, but I've never heard of a beautiful witch before. Only bad witches are ugly.

And once more, Matt at this point is clearly calling Glinda the Wicked Witch of the East, which isn't true. She was killed by a house. Who killed the Witch of the East? He incorrectly assumes that she's a princess and a sister with any other witch, and then confidently defends the most wrong anyone has ever been, saying the following. Grow up, grow up. Get educated. And seen.

This argument is so intense and petty and weird, you can almost forget that the guy in plaid, possibly Doug, is holding an unsheathed knife while saying that The Wizard of Oz is his favorite movie, which is a fascinating display of masculinity. This is a viral video that everyone has their favorite line of, their favorite moment of, and most importantly, for my purposes, your favorite question about. My favorite question about this has always been, does that guy have a knife? but others have questions like how do these men know each other what happened before the video started what happened after the video ends is he saying dog or is he saying dug it is art in the form of a 23 second video and you might not be surprised to hear that it was catnip for the algorithm of the time and something that has continued to be successful in the algorithm since for a lot of reasons but it's a white man yelling about something incorrectly. Empires have fallen over less. That said, the origins of this clip are a little bit hard to trace, but there's no doubt that its most successful iteration to date was uploaded by a YouTube user named Austin Parrish on April 3, 2018. But this is definitely a re-upload of a clip from somewhere else. And at first, I couldn't figure out from where, or which person in the original

group of three, either Matt, Doug, question mark, or the person recording the video had uploaded it in the first place. And as of this recording, there are 11 million views on this re-uploaded YouTube clip, and it quickly spread across platforms. We're talking Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. It's one of those rare clips that basically anyone can enjoy because it was a weird argument about an intellectual property that everyone knows about in some shape or form. form. It's a clip that's highly shareable for my auntie on Facebook, and it's a very popular clip to Lip Sync 2 on TikTok. And it's since joined an echelon of viral clip that tends to go viral around once a year for one reason or another. It's just, there's something very

pleasing about seeing someone aggressively double down about something that they're both wrong about and isn't important, because so many people double down about things that are. So, at the time of publication in 2018, here's a taste of the response on the original YouTube post. The delivery of It's My Favorite Movie remains the most slept-on part of this. I love how his hair was fully engaged in the argument. I'm so glad my dad's condom broke or else I wouldn't be able to experience this masterpiece. But what I find most interesting about this story is that, in the immediate sense, no one ever really comes forward to claim this clip as their own in a public sense.

And by 2018, that is super unusual. This is a post-kenbone world where everyday people can be launched from nowhere and have a whole second life as an influencer if they choose to. That doesn't happen with this clip. And it's never really been clear to me why that is. The vast majority of people have no idea who these men are to each other or what their names even are, to this day. Lucky for you, I'm a freak of nature and a pervert with a lot of time,

and so I pathetically begged for his identity on Twitter.com. Someone thankfully sent me Matt's name, and I was able to find out a little bit more about how he is engaged with not just this story, but the internet in general. And before I spoke with him, his internet presence was still extremely limited. I would describe Matt Pissero as terminally Canadian. Here's Matt and his brother applying to the Amazing Race, Canada in 2013. Sorry that I found this, Matt.

I'm Matt Picero. I'm John Picero. This is our audition tape for The Amazing Race Canada. I know what you're thinking. Why are these two buffoons wearing American hockey jerseys? But this is what bonds us together, our love for the Bruins. Okay, go Bruins. But after this clip goes viral, Matt never displays a desire to capitalize it, or at least never says so publicly. And there's never been an indication of who the other people are involved in the video. The clip is said to have been featured on a lot of daily shows like Ellen, but without anyone from the video's participation,

and I couldn't help but wonder, if Ellen wasn't able to get this guy, there's only one other person who could. So did Daniel Tosh? Yes, he did. Around a month after this video first went viral in May 2018, Matt Bacero made his only public appearance until now on Tosh.0, And Matt is really game for it.

Please welcome Matt. You love it going, man. You are fucking wrong, bro! I am wrong, but I'm also right. I need you to look at a picture of a princess, just a standard princess, and tell me to the untrained eye that that's not a princess. Glinda, the good witch, is the protector of Princess Osma, the rightful heir to Oz, you fucking idiot.

You think they would hire a princess. Princess to protect another princess? Me and Daniel Tosh, on the same page? Imagine. But in terms of further appearances on camera as himself, that's about it for Matt. Not that it stops the clip from going viral as it always does, but it's just that he's not really engaging with it. To date, there's only one small indication that Matt might have an interest in extending

this moment of fame. But even that is still done mainly in. the hobby sense. Meaning, Matt had a podcast with his friends called The Grocery Stick that ran from late 2019 to mid-2020. It seems to be, and I say this with love, a podcast where three friends who are men shoot the shit about their lives and sports. But unfortunately, I cannot confirm that for you because every instance of this podcast is now unstreamable on all platforms. However, the list of episode titles is still available, and one of the earliest from January 2020 is titled Wizard of Oz viral video breakdown. So, at some point, Matt was willing

to share the full story, but again, on a small podcast that Matt tells me really just their friends were listening to. Without Matt's participation, time marched on, and a few viral cycles later, the Wicked Movie Press Tour began. And I thought at the time, this clip will not be far behind. I'm going to show some restraint here and not subject you to a protracted conversation about the wicked press tour. But suffice it to say, it has been very chaotic. People are taking the lyrics of defying gravity and really holding space with that and feeling power in that. I didn't know that that was happening.

Oh, sure. Two of the cast members left their respective spouses for each other. But has any good theater production not prompt? did dramatic betrayals between two people under 5'8. And all of this aside, there was other stuff in the marketing as well. If Santa brings them a wicked doll, apparently Mattel put the URL of a porn site on all the packaging for the wicked dolls and in the instruction manuals. And I don't know if they've caught on or not.

The internet's caught on. I want the wicked porn doll. But as a fan, I was waiting for the Wicked Witch of the Eastbro moment to enter this media cycle until mid-November of this year when one Ariana Grande appeared on Jimmy Fallon as she often does and the official show account posted a clip of the two of them lip-syncing to the wicked witch of the East bro and with that the clip had officially passed into the mainstream again so where's Matt when we come back my conversation with the Matt Pissarro. Imagine me pulling out a knife here.

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Listen to America's Crime Lab on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to 16th Minute. In spite of my best efforts, I have achieved a new level of depression where I'm playing neopets and dressing them up like the characters from Wicked. Because Neopets is exactly as I left it in middle school, except you can buy them wigs now. They finally perfected it. And without further ado, here is my interview with the Wicked Witch of the East Bro, Matt Pissero.

My name is Matt Pissero. I am the Wicked Witch of the East Bro. And as much as there is... There's many imitators out there. There is only myself. There's a lot of people now since the movies coming out. There's a lot of people saying it's their video and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's my video. It's my video.

Even though I haven't done anything with it, it is my video. That's Craven. Wait, who has, are people, do people believe it's someone else? Well, you, well, you know, Jimmy Fallon and Ariana Grande, they used for video. and there's a lot of comments underneath saying tag this person or that person in the video and I had my cousin actually was the one I'm very I take a backseat on a lot of this I take a backseat on a lot of this stuff but she she made sure to comment on every single comment to be like no this is the person that you should be tagging in this video good you need

someone like charging into the comments on your behalf. They're cutin. Absolutely. I'm honestly, I was like with the movie coming up, I'm surprised we got you. Thank you. Thank you for coming on. It's a perfect, perfect timing, right? It's fantastic timing. Every year it seems to have a of some kind, somebody posted in relation to something. And it just, and my, my, my Instagram or my Facebook, people find me. I don't know how they find me. I'm not, I'm not somebody. that says, hey, look for me. I want to be viral. I have a lot of questions for you about that because that's like fairly unusual. Most people are like, yes, let's do this.

But before we get there, I want to know a little bit more about you. Where are you from? Where did you grow up? I live in, I live in Oshua, Oshua, Canada, so Ontario. Yeah, I grew up here. The video was shot in Peterborough. Peterborough, Canada. I was living in Peterborough at the time. If you want a little backdrop, we were, the backdrop of the story is we were, we were out day drinking at a bar, at a Brock Street. I'll do a shout out for Brock Street Brewery and Peterborough.

There should be a plaque there. Yeah. Yeah. We were there day drinking. Then we went home and back to Peterborough where I was living at the time. And that's what happened. But yeah, I live in, I'm 35. I'm a much older gentleman than I look.

A lot of people think I'm in my early 20s, which I take the compliment. Yeah, 35, living in Oshua, one kid, a wife, little house, just small time living. No, don't want to have that Uber fame. I think anyways, I'm now at the point with all my friends and family that I know is like, what are you doing? like you're you're dumb way like this video blows up all the time why you're out of your mind to not do something right when this video came out and just in general what is your relationship to the internet like uh zero like i said i'm 35 so i'm i'm assuming we're we're similar age ish

yeah i'm 31 yeah so we grew up in the uh the pre internet time and i got facebook when i was in grade 10. I got Instagram in 2021. So two years after that video went viral. I never had Instagram before that. I got Instagram for whatever reason. I don't know. I now have Instagram and I'm addicted to scrolling reels now. It's a blessing and a curse all in one, right? So I got Facebook. I got Instagram. Keep me off of everything else. You're on the Zuckerberg products. Keep me away from it. I don't want nothing to do with it. You start them young now, I think. That's how it works, right? Yeah. I'm pretty sure there's parents out there that make that a Facebook account for their two-month-old and then they write on it. Like, Callie loves you and she says hello.

Okay. So your relationship to the internet, you're a pretty offline guy. Basically nothing. Well, I'm in car sale. My job for the last while has been car sales. So I guess I have a little bit of a little bit of a relationship to the internet because I do post videos for stuff like that. But I guess, I don't know. I've never, I've never bridged the gap between the, the internet thing that is that video and what I do for my job. I'm sure there is some sort of balance that could be made there that I've never capitalized on. And, of course, your relationship to the Wizard of Oz prior to this, this big moment. That's, that's, that's the question everyone asked.

And that's the question that everyone says, they go, you know, everyone says, this guy knows he's wrong right that he's not right this is wrong what he's that was not the feeling i got from no of course not right i've i've lived my entire life with the conviction of whether you're right or wrong if you're the loudest in the room you're the asshole and you're probably going to be taken seriously so i i'm well aware that my argument was wrong it's not right so i've people have told me multiple times at that you were very wrong in what you say. And I will stand by my conviction to this point that I am right. She came down in a bubble dog. She's a princess, right? You do deliver it with a lot of confidence. It's, and, and if you do realize that you're wrong

within the space of the video, then the volume just increases. Right. Which is, it's a good system. To be fair, that is my, that if you ask anybody in my life, that is what they say. They say, Matt will not. Even if he's wrong, he will argue until his last breath that he's right. You should run for office or something. No, that seems to be really effective. That's another thing. Keep me out of it.

Keep me out of it. Keep me off the internet. Keep me out of office. It's trouble all around. Protecting yourself, yeah. When was the last time you had seen the Wizard of Oz prior to the argument? The main, the first ever movie? Jesus, I don't

I actually don't know probably when I was 14, 20 years ago, show probably yeah, I didn't and the other guy so the other guy in the video he says it's his favorite video right

or favorite video or movie sorry it's his favorite movie right right and he watches it constantly so I had no right I had no right arguing with that type of context

I haven't seen the movie in 20 years who do I think I am right so walk me through this day. You were day drinking. Who are you with? Who is this man to you and who is filming? So I'll give you, so I'll spill the tea. I'll spill the tea here. Okay, please. This is some heavy, this is some heavy TV. To be honest with you, the internet, from what I've read, loves, loves this kind of stuff. So the person filming the video is a very old friend. I don't speak with her anymore,

but the other guy in the video is my cousin. Obviously grew up with him. He's a couple years younger to me um but how the day started like i said rock house brewery having some drinks going out going back to our house and we were playing a game of headbands you know headbands okay yes yes you put the headbands on you got something in the headbands so what was on the headbands was uh oz right so i don't know how it came about the argument the argument just it organically grew so i'm whether i'm wrong or i'm right my my conviction will be there after way and i also i'm i'm i'm an instigator i like to stir the pot a little bit knowing this guy i know i could stir the pot pretty easily so instigate him a little bit i think it it turned into um i don't i don't really know how the argument itself

started with oz i don't know he couldn't get it he couldn't get the clue of oz of the headbent right and um yeah it was it was probably that was probably that was probably halfway through an argument that we were already having. So I can only imagine when the video starts. I can only imagine what the video itself would have turned into if the recording would have started at the beginning of the argument. It would have been a 12 minute video. And then.

Okay. So this is like the peak of the argument. The peak. You caught, yeah, you caught the head bob and the hair flail, which turned it into whatever it is today right so yeah but he um we we actually so the the tea itself is me and him don't speak anymore we haven't talked actually since that video so he um he didn't want any sort of um quote unquote fame from that video and we actually he told us to delete the original video and uh so when when it started blowing up so after it was taken it blew up immensely uh

Where was it originally posted and who posted it? The girl who took the video posted it on one of her Facebook pages. Okay. Something that she followed. It was some sort of, I don't think it had anything to do with the Wizard of Bonds, what she posted it on. She posted it on some Facebook group. And overnight, it had 175,000 views when I woke up. It was literally like in the blink of an eye, like that.

And I went, whoa, holy shit, that's, that's. that's great that's why right and uh the other guy in the video said take it down now after 24 hours he said i don't want that take it down now the problem with the internet is when it's on the internet yeah if you remove that video from whatever page you posted it somebody already has it right somebody has the video so it ended up turning into um what it is today from that's what was he he just didn't want that level of visibility well there's i guess there's more to it He worked for the city that he worked in. Okay.

And he didn't want to lose his job for whatever reason. He thought he would lose his job if it went viral. And I wasn't in the position to argue with him to say, hey, man, we might make a couple dollars off this. If you sign on to kind of turn it into something, it's already something. He's in the right in the video, ultimately. He does, does he have a knife in the video? He's not in the right. See, this is where we're wrong.

See, you're about to get into an argument. Okay. Okay. Why have I wrong? He's in the wrong on this one. It may be his favorite video. But I had this, I don't know, I was on, I was on Tosh Point O when the video was on Alan and all that kind of stuff, right? Yeah. I challenge anybody, anyone in the world to take a look at this woman and say, no, that's a witch and not a princess. That's not plausible in my mind. It's not a witch. I don't agree that it's a witch.

And you may write it into your scripts to tell me. me it's which. I disagree with you. And I will argue until my last breath. There's so many realities that we can live. I mean, it's you, she is, here's what I'll concede. She is like what we've been conditioned to think of as a princess. So you, you hold your ground. I will. I will hold my ground on that. I will hold, you tell me what you look like. And I will call you by that. I look at you. Okay. By judgment, but I will look at you. You're like, princess. You're a princess.

You are a princess. You can call yourself a witch. You're a princess of my eyes. And when we come back, more with Matt Pissarro. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebeney. The podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebeney. And every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions

and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all. Childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more. And found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal.

he was shot in his house unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. My name is Ed.

Everyone say hello, Ed. I'm from a very rural background myself. My dad is a farmer. and my mom is a cousin, so, like, it's not, like... What do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? I know it sounds like the start of a bad joke, but that really was my reality nine years ago. I just normally do straight stand-up, but this is a bit different.

On stage stood a comedian with a story that no one expected to hear. On 22nd of July 2015, a 23-year-old man had killed his family. And then he came to my house. So what do you get when a true crime producer walks into a comedy club? A new podcast called Wisecrack, where stand-up comedy and murder takes center stage. Available now. Listen to Wisecrack on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a podcast. a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness, the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets. With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told.

I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes it's hard to remember, but... Going through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of their life. That was my dad, reminding me and so many others who need to hear it, that our trauma is not our shame to carry, and that we have big, bold, and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Leitra Tate. On my new podcast, The Unwanted Sorority, we weighed through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like, and sounds like, in real time.

Each week, I sit down with people who live through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of black girls, mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. The unwanted sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space, so let's walk in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to the unwanted sorority, new episodes every Thursday, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced.

He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Shock incarceration, also known as boot camps, are short-term, highly regimented correctional programs that mimic military basic training. These programs aim to provide a shock of prison life, emphasizing strict discipline, physical training, hard labor, and rehabilitation programs. Mark had one chance to complete this program and had no idea of the hell awaiting him the next six months. The first night was so overwhelming, and you don't know who's next to you. And we didn't know what to expect in the morning.

Nobody tells you anything. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get to. your podcast. Welcome back to 16th minute. I controversially find it weird how Jeff Goldblum poses with very young women in pictures. And here's the rest of my interview with the Wicked Witch of the Eastbro, Matt Pissarro. And so I do, does your cousin have a knife in that video? He does, yes.

He does have an idea. He did threaten to stab me. Like, in all actuality, and we're talking about it. If I probably hold the case here, I could probably assume him for some sort of, he might have tried to kill me. I don't know. I don't know. We don't know what happened after the kid.

Well, that is a question. I have what happened after the. After the video. So I walk around the corner. So the end of the video, I walk around the corner. Yeah. Powerful exit. He had a switch blade.

He came with the. a switchblade. I dodged it. He came at my neck. Dodged it. Hit him with a left jab, right? Left jab. What? Knocking down. Yes, no, that's all a lie. I'm kidding. I was like, wait, you guys got it to do a real fight. He put the pocket knife away. It was all. Right. Yeah. Like I said, I'm, I'm genuinely, I'm known for being in my family, that person that instigates a little bit, maybe a little bit too much, right? To be a borderline obnoxiously arrogant and overly confident in a way when you're wrong, right? The video gets uploaded.

Everyone feels a different way about it. It seems like the algorithm just like caught onto it, liked it. Your cousin wants it down. Is it taken down and it's too late? Is that what happened? Yeah, it was taken down gone. It was off of the site we originally posted it on. And then it was probably less, it had to win less than 24 hours later after the video

was taken down. this person on Instagram, I don't know, or on, sorry, on YouTube, I don't know who this person is. He uploaded it on YouTube. Again, immediately blew up, immediately blew up. The algorithm loves men screaming, is what I've learned. What is that about it? I don't get it. I don't understand.

My wife hates it. She despises it. I'm obnoxiously loud all the time. And I don't know how to control it. It's like I have a broken low volume knob and it's always high. I don't know how to tone it down. What is the experience of these first couple of days? Do people find you quickly?

How are you feeling about like this level of attention? I was never private. I was, I wasn't private. I never had, like I said, I didn't have Instagram at this time, right? I only had Facebook and I wasn't, I wasn't private on anything. So all it took was one person saying this is, this is who it is. And then they tagged me in it. And I think in the span of 24 hours, I had 800 friend requests.

I woke up in the morning. I had to put my phone on silent going to bed because there was ding, ding, ding, ding, over and over and over again. I wanted to say something and be like, you're not, you will not be entertained by what you're adding right now. You're not, like, you're adding me for whatever reason, but you're going to get a picture of my nephew at this point because I live with my nephew. That's what you'll get.

I've talked to a lot of people who, when after that first wave of attention, there's like sort of this moment where you have to decide, like, do I want to do anything with this? Do I want to just let it pass? How did you sort of approach that? Yeah, I think that's the main thing when you said, what would it even look like, right? I don't know. I grew up idolizing comedians in my younger years. I've always been that way, but I've never looked at myself as somebody that would be internet famous, like to do something on the internet. I don't know how that would work. I don't know how it would do it. I've had family members and friends be like, you're out to lunch.

What the fuck are you doing? Why do you do not make an account and start? I'm like, what? For what? What am I doing? What am I saying? Do I sit down now in front of, in front of a camera and tell a story? I don't know.

I never had the desire to do it, to be honest. I just, I like my, I like my small life. I like my little life. I like my family life. I've never, never wanted to branch out that way. But there's always going to be people that are like, you're crazy. like how how could you you know you're leaving money well to be honest with you the the the thought of the thought of the money makes me feel sick to my stomach that could be there right but i i was never

even able to monetize the video right i wasn't able to to make any money off the video because of the other guy in the video wouldn't sign off on any sort of monetization of the video so to not have him in the video made it made it difficult right so obviously i will leave his his name out of this. So you don't need to answer this. But do you not talk anymore because of like the fallout of this video? No, there's there's a little bit more to it. But okay. Family drama. Everyone has it. I mean, this is, I really do think that this is like one of the only stories I've ever heard about like day drinking, changing your life for perhaps the better. The better. This whole wave of attention is happening. You're not able to monetize it. You don't want to like

pivot to become an influencer or anything like that. Yeah. Yes. The whole, the bubble itself, no pun intended, around being an influencer to being like, I need to come up with creations of doing so-and-so. I just, I don't, I don't get it. Well, we did, I did do a podcast. I did start a podcast with two of my friends. Yeah. We did, we did a podcast for about a year and a half with two of my friends called the grocery stick. And we talked about, we actually, before I've done this now with you, we talked about the creation of the video and it was more sports related and shooting the shit and stuff like that just joking around everybody and their cousins started a podcast in the span of like between 2018 and now everyone's like no podcast let's do a podcast so we did that and then life got in the way and we just kind of stopped but we had seven people listened to us at certain points so yeah it's funny were you like marketing that is like and i'm the guy from this video or you're in a way yeah at the beginning at the beginning we were but it It just, it never, it never really took off and I didn't really expect it to.

It was a pastime, really, honestly, we, we just a reason to get together. We thought we were funny, you know, when you get a bunch of guys together that think they're funny. Yeah. That's, that's the meme on the internet now, right? A bunch of getting together and starting a bunch of it. Three men in a room? Sure.

You're a millionaire. A millionaire and you're going to say something off the cusp. That's going to get in capable. Because I've seen that you've done a couple appearances, how did you sort of choose, like what to engage with versus not i love daniel tosh daniel tosh was my my one of my comedic idols growing up him and dave chappelle and so there are certain people that i absolutely loved um and then they that was they actually reached out to me i think it was a month and a half after that video went viral that was a no-brainer for me uh that was like yeah i would love to talk you about the video

And that was my first endeavor in anything like that. I couldn't have been more nervous. All the other stuff, though, like with Ellen and ridiculousness, they just reached out to me to ask to use the video. Obviously, I had the person who recorded the video signed it on to me. Like, they gave me the rights. So I just said, yeah. I said, yeah.

How do you do that for like a video from someone's phone? They were just like, yeah, they signed the rights over and it was my, basically my video from their phones. If this all happened again, and I guess it kind of does, you're in like this kind of groundhog day loop. Yeah. Would you do it any differently? Would you want to do it any differently? The next time it happens, will you want to do it differently? I kind of, I, to be honest with you, as much as I say I don't want any, when it pops up, the amount of engagement that I get from people around me, it's hilarious, right?

Just like people in your day-to-day? Yeah, day-to-day. I have a very, like, massive, large group of friends, different circles and everything. Like, I'm actually, on Sunday, there's a very good friend of mine who's a tattoo artist. Her name is Dayland. Day, Day Reid is her on Instagram. And we're going to do a, I'm going to do a huge piece on my leg, Wicked Witch of the East piece on my leg. No way. We're going to get my whole leg done.

I'm going to try and help her grow her brand as I sit here. And I live in my small bungalow that I live in. But, yeah, I'm going to help her. But there's nothing more that I would do or want to do in that situation. I have no desire to go viral ever again. My last question, maybe an obvious question, are you going to see Wicked? So I don't think you're going to like my answer here. I don't think so.

I will, you won't catch me in the theater. It's not about learning. it's not about anything like that you will not catch me in it's it's more about I don't want to be honest I don't want to get into it but you won't catch me supporting anything

to do with the Hollywood elites about that I will not give them any of my money I don't I don't see movies I don't have subscriptions I have nothing like that I have nothing I will not I will not step foot into a movie I appreciate Arianna Grandrege and I appreciate Jimmy Fall Johns

I appreciate both of them. I like them. I like them both. They did a great job with the video, but I will not. I will not. And I might, you know what?

I take that back. Maybe I will see the video or the movie. I might see the movie. Okay. But I will not pay money to go sit down in a theater. Okay. Okay. I mean,

I feel like they should probably just send you a screener anyways. You're owed. I actually, funny thing is, I got reached out to somebody that works for, universal months ago. Yeah, before the movie came out, it was probably three months ago. They reached out to me and they sent me a bunch of stuff and they asked me to come out

to L.A. to do this and I sent them a bunch of information and then I never heard back from them. So I said, what am I doing right now? I wouldn't see the movie either if they did that. Yeah, they reached out to me and like, hey, we have promotional things that we want to do. Your video is super viral and we would love to have you do this. And I said, yeah, I would, I would love to do a bunch of stuff for you, sure. Yeah. And then they said, they said nothing.

They said nothing back to me. Are there like weird offers or things you've turned down over the years that you're like, yeah, I thought a couple people reach out. Yeah, I've had a couple. I had somebody that worked for Google pixels and multiple other, like, streaming services that were like, they will give you money to do this. And then that, I had a, I had two bad experiences of people not either getting back to me or me doing something for them

and they didn't do anything for me. And I said, I'm not doing that. Like I said, I have no desire to do this. This is fun. I enjoy this. You can get the background on the Sabrina. This is fun. You're very sweet yourself and this is a fun conversation.

But I have no desire to set up an Instagram account and me being like, well, let me tell you what I think about this. Who gives a shit about my opinion? And again, I wish more people thought that way. I think that you're an incredible, you're an inspiration to society. From now on, take a back seat. You're not important. You don't matter.

I don't matter, right? If I make a video telling you how I feel about Wicked after I watch the movie and you take that with any sort of conviction whatsoever, I think you have more of an issue than I do. You're cooked. You're cooked. You're cooked. Thank you so much to Matt for his time and his gameness. And you are welcome for the exclusive. You can follow Matt. And I think this is a first, nowhere. He does not want to be famous. But you can check out that tattoo he mentions from his tattoo artist, Day Bond, which is linked in the description of this episode. With that, listeners, I ask you the following. What makeeth a princess? What makeeth a witch? The answer is in the eye of the beholder. Unless, of course, the character explicitly self-identifies as a witch. 16th Minute is a production of Full Zone Media and IHeart Radio. It is written, hosted, and produced by me, Jamie Loftus. Our executive producers are Sophie Liechtenman and Robert Evans.

The Amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor. our theme song is by sad 13 voice acting is from grant crater and pet shoutouts to our dog producer Anderson my cats flea and casper and my pet rockbird who will outlive us all bye welcome to pretty private with ebbinay the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free i'm ebonye and every tuesday i'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that would challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

What would you do if one bad decision forced you to choose between a maximum security prison or the most brutal boot camp designed to be hell on earth? Unfortunately for Mark Lombardo, this was the choice he faced. He said, you are a number, a New York State number, and we own you. Listen to shock incarceration on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Black Business Month, and Money and Wealth Podcast with John Hope Bryant is tapping in. I'm breaking down how to build wealth, create opportunities, and move from surviving to thriving. It's time to talk about ownership, equity.

and everything in between. Black and brown communities have historically been last and alive. Let me just say this. AI is moving faster than civil rights legislation ever did. Listen to money and wealth from the Black Effect Podcast Network on IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're looking for another heavy podcast about trauma, the saying it, this is for the ones who had to survive and still show up as brilliant, loud, soft, and whole.

The unwanted sorority is where black women, fims, and gender expansive survivors of sexual violence, rewrite the rules on healing, support, and what happens after. And I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Leah Trettae. Listen to the unwanted sorority, new episodes every Thursday, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your entire identity has been fabricated. Your beloved brother goes missing without a trace.

You discover the depths of your mother's illness. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the powerful stories I'll be mining on our upcoming 12th season of Family Secrets. We continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.