Sleepy History - The Holy Grail

Starting point is 00:00:01 This is Sleepy History. Sleepy History is a production of Slumber Studios. To listen, add-free, and support the show, check out our premium feed. In Toronto, every arrival is a statement, and nothing says it better than this. Cadillac Optic was the number one selling luxury EV in Canada for 2025. Find your rhythm across a seamless 33-inch display

Starting point is 00:00:35 and an immersive 19-speaker AKG surround audio system. This city demands agility and optic delivers with precision to make every drive extraordinary. Let's take the Cadillac. Find out more at Cadillac canada.ca. Luxury sales claim based on S&P Global Mobility Canadian New Vehicle Total Registrations for calendar year 2025 for the Cadillac definition of luxury. Hello, it's Elizabeth here, the host of the Sleepy Bookshelf, another sleep-inducing podcast from the Slumber Studios Network. I'm dropping by just to let you know that I'm starting a brand new book, on the Sleepy Bookshelf right now.

Starting point is 00:01:10 This season, I'll be reading A Room with a View by E.M. Forster, where we will travel to Italy and back, exploring romance and social expectations in Edwardian England. If you're interested, just search the Sleepy Bookshelf in your favourite podcast player and go to the most recent episodes to find this new season. I hope to see you there, to put down your worries for the day, and pick up a good book. Tonight, we will travel back over a thousand years,

Starting point is 00:01:46 seeking the origins of one of the most famous treasures of all time, the Holy Grail, from the pages of a medieval manuscript to the castles of France and even the silver screen of the 20th century. We will discover the true story behind the legend of the grail, those who protected it and those who sought to claim it as their own. With such an epic tale to tell, we won't be able to touch upon every effort,

Starting point is 00:02:18 every dead end, or every wild theory. But we'll delve into some of the deepest questions and mysteries this ancient artifact has to offer. So just relax and let your mind drift as we explore the sleepy history of the Holy Grail. For the past few centuries, there have been fewer topics more alluring and the search for precious ancient artifacts. In the modern era, archaeologists have acquired a somewhat glamorous image, featuring in countless books and movies that followed their efforts to uncover the mysterious relics lost to history. In one of the most suspenseful scenes of the 1989 film Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade, the intrepid archaeologist faces a test that would make a permanent impression on modern viewers.

Starting point is 00:03:30 After many travails, he stands in a hidden cave before a selection of cups. His task is to select the one that is the true grail, a chalice famously used by Jesus at the Last Supper. His choices are myriad. The array is dazzling. He whispers to himself, reasoning nervously. Then, surprisingly, he selects the most unassuming, simple cup of them all. Upon seeing this, the immortal knight who guards the chamber nods approvingly. You have chosen wisely, he intones. Indiana's reasoning behind his famous selection of the wooden cup

Starting point is 00:04:22 is that Jesus would have been a humble man. His supper would not have been exalted, nor his table settings rich. What's interesting about this movie scene is that it reinforced a modern perception that is perhaps widely held. In short, many people today firmly believe the Holy Grail is a genuine lost artifact, and that its story began in biblical times. After all, how else could the character of Indiana use historical facts about Jesus to make the ultimate choice? The truth of the Grail, however, may be surprising to some.

Starting point is 00:05:13 Yes, the mythology of the Holy Grail is lengthy. Certainly, it intersects with numerous other legends, some of which have become accepted, as valid parts of its history. But in reality, there is little evidence at all that there is a particular surviving cup from the Last Supper. Nor, in fact, did the few sources citing such an object agree that it was even shaped like a cup. To unravel the true origins of the great legend we all take for granted today, it's most useful to go back in time to the Middle Ages. For that is where the epic story of the Holy Grail truly emerged. In the early 12th century, a French poet named Cretienne de Troyes penned some stories

Starting point is 00:06:14 that would be among the most influential works of his time, eventually hailed as major influences on the modern novel. Building upon existing tales from England about King Arthur, he wrote his own versions of the famous hero's adventures. In doing so, he created some of the most iconic aspects of the Arthur mythology. Most important, for our narrative, was his final unfinished work, which was called Percival, the story of the Grail. Written in Old French, this poem was the tale to describe what would quickly become the very famous quest for the Grail.

Starting point is 00:07:01 and it may surprise you to know that the object in question was not even a cup. It was a golden plate. Further, it was not yet particularly holy in nature. L'Ithroix claimed he got his source material from a book provided by his patron, Philip of Flanders. The existence of such a book is questionable. First, the book has never been identified. Further, it was common for writers of the era to vaguely refer to source texts that did not exist, in order to dispel the notion that they were writing fiction.

Starting point is 00:07:51 In that poem, the Grail does not really have a starring role. Rather, it is mentioned merely as a plot point. Percival, a Welsh boy who wishes to be a knight, encounters a character called the Fisher King. Upon visiting his castle, he watches a mysterious nighttime procession. Young men and women carry three objects past him. First, he sees a lance, then a candelabra. Finally, a beautiful maiden emerges with a precious-looking item he refers to as a grail. He doesn't comment upon any of this, but in the morning he finds out he could have broken

Starting point is 00:08:42 a troublesome spell if he had in fact asked about the Grail. In a later passage, it is revealed that the Grail has special powers that sustain the ailing father of his host, the Fisher King. But that is all we really hear of the Grail in this tale by Detois. Obviously, De Trois isn't even responsible for the idea that the Grail was a cup. That impression grew in later stories. Also, the object is divine, but it is not linked to Jesus yet. In fact, far from being biblical, it's possible the source de Tuat really used was Irish mythology.

Starting point is 00:09:37 This is just a theory that some scholars point to one tale about a similar trio of objects, a spear, a cauldron and a sword. Other modern historians discount this idea. Whatever the case, it was future authors who began making a religious link, and it was a lasting one. Around the year 1200, not long after Detroit passed away, a man named Robert Dubroen suggested Christian origins for the Grail in his poem called Joseph Darimati, or Joseph of Arimathea. Following from his predecessor's story, he featured Percival who pursued the Grail, but as a holy item. In his story, Joseph acquired the chalice from the Last Supper. Later, the Spirit of Christ visited him to explain the mysteries of the Blessed Cup.

Starting point is 00:10:45 Eventually, in the tale, Joseph gathered relatives and followers and traveled west, founding a dynasty of grail keepers. In the story, Percival would ultimately become one of them. It's important to note that, while de Bouron may have been the first European to popularize the idea of a holy grail, there are vague earlier references to such an item. One comes from a source completely unrelated to the Arthurian legends. There are some texts from the 5th century in which a Greek historian makes mention of such an object. According to the scholar Olympiadorus, an empress named Helena had discovered Christ's tomb and it contained some relics.

Starting point is 00:11:43 One of those is called the Marion Chalice, which the Empress believed to have once contained the blood of Christ. While this is not a clear link to the Holy Grail of the later, European authors, it could be part of the same legend. Other sources point to a 7th century pilgrim named Arkulff, who reported an item he saw displayed near Jerusalem that was purportedly a chalice from the Last Supper. But these early mentions are so few and far between that they can hardly be considered a major influence in the saga of the Grail. De Beaureen wasn't the only person inspired by the unfinished Percival poem by de Trois, his effort was quickly followed up by a man named Wolfram von Eschenbach. Claiming to have used the same mysterious source as de Trois, von Eschenbach

Starting point is 00:12:46 leaned into the holiness of the Grail, suggesting it was not a cup, but rather a stone that protected neutral angels who had not taken sides in the biblical battle of Lucifer's rebellion. In his Patsifal or Percival story, he spun a tale very similar to the original by de Twas. However, rather than a cap, he featured a stone, which he called Lapis Exilis. According to Grail author Justin Griffin, the most important feature of von Eschenbach's story about the stone was that he swapped out the Fisher King for the Knights Templar, a religious, military, order of Knighthood from the era of the Crusades. Anyone who has seen the Indiana Jones movie will immediately understand how important that new plot point would become. The idea that the

Starting point is 00:13:51 Grail was guarded by such an organization or secret society became central to its stories going forward. The other intriguing effect of von Exchenbach's story was to represent the Grail as a stone. But why is that? Because the term lapis exilis can be interpreted as referring to the philosopher's stone, which people had sought for centuries in the hope of finding the secret to wealth and eternal life. Even though the idea of the grail as a stone was not a very persistent one, law about its supernatural powers lived on, and this story probably contributed to that. Meanwhile, other people in the early 13th century were creating additional Holy Grail stories, sticking much closer to the simpler definition of the Grail as a cup.

Starting point is 00:14:58 We don't know their names now, but a group of writers authored a series of stories that expanded the adventures of King Arthur, his knights, and the quest for the Holy Grail. Especially important to this group of tales is the knight called Lancelot, and eventually his son, Galahad. That group of highly influential stories is often referred to as the Lancelot Grail series, or the Vulgate series. Despite the fact that we don't know the authors, the Lancelot Grail cycle is really the source of much of the most common storytelling we have about Camelot and the Grail nowadays. In these tales, it's notable that many knights pursue the Grail, including Lancelot, but they are not holy enough or pure enough to attain it.

Starting point is 00:16:01 In the end, the only knight worthy of the Grail is the Virgin Galahad, who is so pure that he finally lays hands on the holy relic and descends to heaven. It's possible that this highly religious version of events was so enduring because it was later perpetuated by one of the most famous writers in the Arthur mythology, Sir Thomas Mallory. Hundreds of years after the Volgate series was written, Mallory revived it in the 15th century in his famous work called Le Morte d'Auteur. or the death of Arthur.

Starting point is 00:16:44 Strengthening the holiness of the grail, he implied in his stories that, once retrieved by the pure knight Galahad, the grail would never be seen on earth again. No knight was worthy of obtaining it. But while the Arthurian legend grew, there were still people out there claiming they had laid hands on the real grail.

Starting point is 00:17:11 In the late 12th century, Around the time Quetienne de Trois is composing his poems, the Archbishop William of Tyre wrote that some soldiers from the First Crusade had found a brilliant hexagonal emerald bowl in a temple built by Herod the Great. They had then sold it to clerics in Genoa for a great price. With no apparent justification, people said the bowl had been used at the last supper, and it somehow became elevated to the level of being the Holy Grail. However, it lost some of its shine in the 19th century

Starting point is 00:17:59 when Napoleon had it removed to Paris and somehow broke it, later returning it. In the end, the bowl was not made of emerald. It was just a really pretty green glass bowl, probably an Islamic artifact from the 9th or 10th century. There are also proponents of an Agate cup called the Valencia Chalice, which has been located in Spain since the 12th century. Since at least the 14th century, this cup has been hailed by some as the Holy Grail. Modern-day Catholic popes have used the chalice at mass, attesting to its history and holiness.

Starting point is 00:18:50 Although it has never been attributed with any supernatural feats, scientists agree that the cup does seem to have been produced in a Palestine or Egyptian workshop between the second century BCE and the first century CE, which makes it a bit more believable than the green glass bowl that Napoleon's people shattered. And of course, there were other efforts to prove the Grail existed outside of the King Arthur Tales. For example, the Reverend Joseph Guring, The renowned medievalist of the 20th century identified 12th century wall paintings in the Catalan Pyrenees that might have depicted a grail. In these images, the Virgin Mary held a bowl that radiated tongues of fire.

Starting point is 00:19:44 They were painted prior to the time that Cretienne de Trois wrote his Percival stories. But of course, there is no way to prove Gering's theory. just another path to follow through history. In his book about the Grail, Justin Griffin devotes an entire chapter to other items that have been suggested as the true artifact. One of these is called the Chalice Well Cup. According to this story, Joseph had hidden the grail in a natural spring at the foot of the Glastonbury Tour. A well does exist there, with its waters running over rocks that have turned red. However, there are only rumours of an actual cup having been discovered in that spot. Another intriguing story is that the grail is hidden inside an elaborately decorated pillar

Starting point is 00:20:51 at Roslin Chapel in Scotland. Reportedly fashioned by a master stone mason, this pillar was such an achievement that it supposedly sent the stone masons master into a jealous fit. A metal detector scan of the pillar has indicated that a metal item could be inside, but no shape can be determined, and the curator will not allow it to be x-rayed. Nor obviously will anyone be smashing through the precious pillar to see what's inside. In the early 19th century, an Austrian writer named Josef von Hammur Pogstahl laid another brick in the foundation for many of the modern Grail stories, including the ones featuring Indiana Jones. Tapping into an actual organization from hundreds of years ago, he connected the Knights

Starting point is 00:21:52 Templar to the idea of the Grail, suggesting that they had a major role in protecting its legacy. In his interpretation, the Grail was not a physical object as much as it was a receptacle of secret knowledge. This link between the Knights Templar and the Grail has no basis in fact. However, it really took hold of the popular imagination. As the 19th century continued, Victorian ideals about chivalry and purity drove renewed interest in the stories of Arthur and his knights.

Starting point is 00:22:34 Their quests suited the sensibilities of the era. With those stories, of course, came legendary. of the Grail. Numerous writers mentioned it, most notably the poet Tennyson, who published his Arthurian cycle Iddles of the King between 1859 and 1885. Tennyson's work drew mainly upon Le Morte d'Arthur by Sir Mallory, but it was seen as a commentary on Victorian society. This is a perfect example of how the stories of the Grail morphed repeatedly to suit new audiences. Then, right around the end of that time, the great composer Wagner devoted his final work to the production of a three-part music drama on the topic. And he started by looking

Starting point is 00:23:33 farther back than Tennyson did for his source material. Wagner's piece was based on the Percival stories by both de Trois and von Eschenbach. The product of 25 years' work, his piece was criticized by some for being too religious, and it did reference the Grail. The play would eventually become widely performed and was even adapted to the screen during the 20th century. In 1904, there was a silent film made based on it. Then again, in 22, a silent movie called The Light in the Dark resurrected the tale. As the new century dawned, a Frenchman authored a pamphlet that linked up the Grail and the Knights Templar with a religious sect called the Cathars. In it, he suggested they were all part of a secret society called the Order of the Grail, which guarded the object.

Starting point is 00:24:45 A novelist named Josephine Palladins implied that the Cathar castle at Mont Seguer in France was actually the same as Castle Montsalvat. from von Eschenbach's Palsival. This spawned an impression that the Cathars were in possession of the Grail, having taken it with them when their castle at Mont Seguer fell in the 13th century. Had it not been for an eager German medievalist, this pamphlet might have just become a blip on the radar of Grail history. However, nearly three decades later, its contents attracted the notice of a scholar named Otto Rahn. He was writing a thesis on mysticism, medieval poetry, and their influence on the Germans.

Starting point is 00:25:39 Merging Peladins' thoughts with other influences he encountered along the way, he wrote a book called Crusade Against the Grail, which was published in 1933. Falling back on many suppositions and descriptions from the age-old von Eschenbach text, he reinforced the idea that the that Montsegir had hosted the Grail and suggested that the character of Patsival represented a real Cathar named Troncavel. This dubious theory picked up steam in his next book, which expanded upon the philosophies of the Cathars and their history. Then at some point, he developed a theory that the Cathars were part of a so-called Aryan race, and that they possessed what he considered to be the true Grail, one even greater,

Starting point is 00:26:35 and the supposed cup from the Last Supper. At this point, you would be justified in wondering why it would be necessary to make an object more precious than the cup from the Last Supper. But that was how outlandish Rahn's ideas became. According to British historian Richard Barber, Rahn visited Montsegur, and may have sent a package of his discoveries

Starting point is 00:27:02 to the infamous Nazi Heinrich Himmler. Some sources report that these finds included what Rahn thought was the Grail. Barber writes that, among other salacious tales, some say Himmler kept von Eschenbach's Patsival book as bedside reading. But he adds that there is no real proof of it. And such tales have become entangled with the familiar stories of modern fiction. So often, he laments, when dealing with the Grail, imagination plays a much greater part than reality. He goes on to dismiss even the idea that the Nazis sought the Grail for its supernatural powers, saying that they were much more interested in fabricating a history of an idealistic

Starting point is 00:27:59 Germanic religion than they were in looking for the Grail. If Barber is correct, we must leave that adventure story about the Nazi treasure hunters to Indiana Jones. But Barber adds, it is not fantasy to suggest that imagery around the grail contributed to the rise of national socialism in Germany, even prior to Iran and Himmler. Wagner's production furthered ideals about the perfection of the grail and the people in its orbit. Like the knights did before, those who sought the grail were in the service of something great. And so these ideas about some sort of Germanized religion became linked with Patsaval, and the Grail. Barber cites a single piece of evidence that echoes down through history.

Starting point is 00:29:00 Hitler once spoke of a brotherhood of Templars around the Grail of pure blood. So, it may have been a good idea for the film industry to send Indiana and his father after the Nazis in the end. But, as conspiracy theories tend to do, the new pairing of the Grail and the Cathars managed to live on, despite being a complete fabrication. In the 1970s, a BBC archaeology program called Chronicle aired a series of documentaries related to the Holy Grail. The Chronicle series had long been considered to be very respectable and had been generally lauded by critics.

Starting point is 00:29:53 However, a trio of episodes about the Knights Templar drew criticism. Despite the negative attention, those segments inspired a 19, The 1882 book called The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail. Both the BBC documentaries and the book advanced wild and largely unfounded theories about the Holy Grail. In its simplest terms, the central theory said that the Grail was not an object, but rather a bloodline. The story held that Joseph and Mary Magdalene had a family together, and that their children eventually fled to southern France. Once there, the children intermarried with noble French families, producing the Merovingian dynasty,

Starting point is 00:30:48 which has a claim to the French throne. Further, that bloodline had been guarded by the Knights Templar, and more specifically, a fictional group called the Priory of Ceyon. So, in short, the bloodline of Mary Magdalene and Joseph was the Grail. Who would be forgiven for thinking this idea sounds ridiculous, Our British historian Richard Barber certainly thought so. He called the book the most notorious of all the Grail pseudo-histories, which proceeds by innuendo, not by reputable scholarly debate.

Starting point is 00:31:36 But of course, sensational stories are always popular. Apparently, this Grail theory was worthy of a thrilling novel to continue the tale. In fact, in short order, there were two. The first was the 1993 book, The Woman with the Alabaster Jar, and the second, Dan Brown's 2003 novel, The Da Vinci Code, which even made it to the big screen. By the late 1980s, even as the Indiana Jones movie was reinforcing the comparatively old-fashioned grail stories, newer narratives were exploring the legend with a greater level of symbolism. During the late 20th century, there were also those who took a more light-hearted pass at the mythology of the Holy Grail. Along with the questionable BBC documentaries from the 1970s, pop culture also received the gift of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. A comical retelling of the Grail story that has been widely quoted by an entire generation of moviegoers.

Starting point is 00:32:53 The Monty Python film contrasted the loosening morals of the novel. 1970s with the saintly rules of the original roundtable stories. It was so popular that it spawned a stage production called Spamalot in the mid-1980s. Then, as Indiana was selecting the true grail on screen in 1989, the Sacred Cup even made an appearance on a two-part episode of the highly unsurious TV show, McGuiver. Next up, in 1991, a film Tom starring Robin Williams and Jeff Bridges went all the way back to some of the earliest source material and brought back the Fisher King, setting a grail quest in modern New York City. It is truly a marvel to consider how audiences of the early 90s bought tickets to watch a story

Starting point is 00:33:51 that had first appeared in the Middle Ages. It was the grail myth again, just reinvented for a new era. If you stop and think about the last decades of the 20th century, there was really no other time in history when so many different takes on the legend of the Holy Grail coexisted at once. Highly complicated conspiracy theories were digested side by side with adventure movies, thriller novels, and bawdy stage plays. One had to simultaneously believe that the Grail was a cup and a bloodline, an artifact and a history, a drama of great magnitude and an outrageous comedy.

Starting point is 00:34:43 And somehow, the world was okay with that. Today, the mythology of the Holy Grail can be found in virtually every aspect of our culture. It has been mentioned in a song by famous R&B stars. It is featured in multiple video games. In fact, the idea of perfection has come to be represented by the expression. the Holy Grail, such as, this is the Holy Grail of pencil sharpeners, or, this is the Holy Grail of marketing, or this recipe is the Holy Grail of cheesecake baking. Anything that represents the ultimate achievement is its own Holy Grail.

Starting point is 00:35:36 The appendix of Richard Barber's exhaustive book on the topic has a particularly interesting chart. He compiled the mentions of the term Holy Grail. in major newspapers from 1878 to 2002. Just to give you an idea of the scope, the German newspaper Frankfurter-Algemina used the term 280 times during that time span. More impressive, the Washington Post stood out for its love affair with the expression.

Starting point is 00:36:09 Racking up 628 uses, this American newspaper showed a trend of increasing almost every year. every year. That trend is also played out by the UK paper The Times, suggesting that by the turn of the 21st century, the Grail was more entrenched in our culture than it ever was before. With such a vast history behind it, the story of the Grail has had incredible staying power. Barber suggests that this is because it was a vessel that each subsequent generation could fill up with its own yearnings and beliefs. In the introduction to his

Starting point is 00:36:57 book, he immediately states two of the essential questions at the heart of the search for the Grail. First, what is the Grail? And second, what is it for? Looking back at the long journey of the Grail through the years, the answer comes into focus. Simply, the Grail legend was a shape-shifter, that suited many people, of many cultures, for a great variety of reasons. In Barber's words, the grail owes its existence to the shadowy borderland between imagination and belief. And of course, nobody understands this better than our hero, Indiana Jones. After selecting the correct grail, he still ends up empty-handed. The knight warns him that he cannot remove the grail from its hiding place. His prediction is true. In the end, the grail is trapped in the cave.

Starting point is 00:38:14 plunging even farther than before, down into a crevasse in the earth. Perhaps, as Barber suggests, whatever shape or form we may attribute to it, the Holy Grail offers us, in imagination, the possibility of perfection. Reflecting on his words, one has to realize that, if we ever find it, that hope will expire. And so, the quest for the Holy Grail will be never ending. Thank you.

Sleepy History - The Holy Grail

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