SleepyCabin - SleepyCast S2:E6 - [Griefing and Game Design]

Episode Date: December 19, 2015

Ever wished upon a shimmering star that you'd one day become a lonely unbathed game developer? Then wish no longer, friend. SleepyCabin presents a special "Game Developer" podcast that'll have you plotting out equations on the most efficient "lols" of your life. Also Minecraft ... lots of Minecraft. Here's a link to an image the guys referred to: http://sleepycabin.com/cabinshit/uploads/2015/12/s2e6_griefing.png +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Your hosts for the evening: JohnnyUtah (www.johnnyutah.newgrounds.com) Oney (www.youtube.com/OneyNG) Spazkid (www.youtube.com/user/Spazkidin3D) With Special Guests: Tom Fulp (www.newgrounds.com) Michael Swain (www.theswain.com) Podcast editing by: Tom Ryan (@tomrmusic) Niall — Initial edit Ricepirate — Final pass +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Yo, we're on Patreon if you wanna throw us a buck! www.patreon.com/SleepyCabin A SUPER SPECIAL THANKS to some of our generous supporters: Shane Danells . Ryan Pagonis . Creeps McPasta Jace Baker . Denis DeLong . Trevor Wood Liam Staley . skooks . Sonny Canchola Susparty . Paul Raymond . Lucas Boucher ubernoobinator . Matt Gronhovd . Travis Wager Schegerino . Rodolfo Davis Millet . Windmill Punches Andrew Dore . Elecktricd00m . Bill Zhuang Dani Rucker . Dazzanator . Andrew Suchwallo Sindre Norheim . David Fanucchi . Conner St. John Phillip Tafoya . Wrinklywiener Kenneth . Hudson Heitmeier Sam Child . Yuval Birenzweig . Prosecutor Jeff Thomas King . Chaney Rockwell . Jacob Arends Andreas Tautra Sylte . Steven LeBlanc +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ SleepyCabin Official Site! www.sleepycabin.com SleepyCabin on YouTube! www.youtube.com/SleepyCabin Stay tuned on Facebook! www.facebook.com/SleepyCabin ...or Twitter! twitter.com/sleepycabin +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ We're on iTunes, too! Search for SleepyCabin!

There is a world as tangible as our own. Impossible to see yet. Unavoidable to sense. A world enveloped by a seemingly unending ocean of forests. Very deep in that forest, tucked away neatly within a blanket of twilight, lies a quaint little cabin. And in that cabin. It's a bunch of guys.

He's a bunch bullshit. Welcome to the Sleepycast Game Design Spectacular. I'm Jeff. Hey, Corey. What's your name? Corey. What's your name? We have Chris.

Hey, I'm just sitting here. I'm not a game designer. Tom Fulp. Hey guys. A designer and new grandfounder extraordinaire. And brand new to the podcast, Michael Big ugly swing. It's the swain. The swain. The swain. The creator of Blockhead 2.

Blockhead 2. I have a question. Do you do Blockhead's voice? Yes, I did. Can you still do Blockhead's voice? Kind of, yeah. I cheated, I pitch bent it, like one step up. Oh, you are a faggot. You cheated? You're sick.

Yeah, but you couldn't, it's not hard. You're not pure? No, I'm not a purist. Can we hear it? Can we hear your blood kid? Hi. Hello. So yeah, I don't need it, but...

It's like the real blockhead is right here. Originally when I did that, I always envisioned him having the voice of a child, not like this weird messed up, like, adult trying to do a high-pitched voice thing. But I think it added kind of to the creepy factor, so I was okay with that. I always thought like he was on the verge of schizophrenia? Because his, like... Oh, yeah, he is. That's 100% correct. Yeah.

The idea is his house is really an asylum. him, the conscience is his medication. Oh, really? And, yeah, it's one of those behind the scenes. I think I, when we were working on, working on the Ching game, whose name won't be mentioned on the podcast. I think I explained some of that to him once. Should we cover that briefly?

Our side school are called CCB. Talk about it. I don't even know how we hooked up to make that game in the first place now. I just finished the Mastermind World Concord game, which did okay. I was, you know, I was really had a taste for game design. I wanted to jump back into it. Like, it was based on the board game masterminds where you get six different colored pegs and you have to, like, create combinations of four.

and guess what the other guy's combo was by Cluzi gives you. And that was a game owned by Pressman Toys, and they didn't like that I've made that. But they couldn't do much with it because you can't copyright game rules. You can't do it. I learned this in the process of getting a seasoned assist, but you haven't made it on Newgrounds until you didn't send a season to assist. But I like the game, but you can't copyright game rules,

and we designed our own board. It didn't look in any way. The interface was nothing like their board game, so they had no case. Even though they didn't have a case, they still fuck with you. Yeah, yeah. You can freely send season-ass letters, like, and you never know how willing they are to, like, go through with it.

We were talking about your first game, CCB. Yeah, yeah. Like, eventually we're getting to CCB. It was supposed to be a satirical, not racist, but poking-funded American racism towards Japanese games. Let's serve me. Like type of game. We wanted to make a game.

I think we were both infatuated with the show Ninja Warrior. Yeah, Ninja Warrior with most extreme challenges, I think, right? MXC's, like, Trump's Ninja Warrior. In my opinion, Ninja Warrior was so... There's more laugh factor. Like, it's hilarious. Ninja Warrior is where you go for that, like, feel good, like, yeah. Like, every man did it, or that, like, that small girl that did it for the American one.

I wasn't that long ago. It just, like, fall on their face, and that'd be it. It would have this, like, build up to, like, these... What, like, Takesh's Castle? We wanted to make a game with, like, a clumsy, dumb American... Yeah, we wanted to match it all the one. It's a really hard, of course. It's a really good idea.

So, so why did you say it comes? Let's just, let's just cut it. We called it Ching Chong Beautiful. All right? I'm so sorry, Tom. I hear that correctly. We should have listened. Yeah, Tom, Tom, Tom, did Tom's like, credit?

He's like, you know what, guys? I think we're, I think we're, I think we just sabotage ourselves somehow. Like little subtle things that are outright, which fine, that's fine, like subtle. We had dialogue. There were lines about zipperheads. That's where I got zipper. Did I, did I, did I made a stage? I think we cut that one.

I made a crater stage where Nagasaki was. That was on me. Yeah, there's a crater stage. There's a. big desert based out of a nuclear crater which if you look on the map of Japan with the stages it's in Hiroshima Oh yeah

Yeah so that's I mean that's tasteless That's not evil it's just tasteless I remember getting super invested in Chang I wanted to fucking beat it Yeah that was so hard at first It was yeah you like You like master the controls eventually And then you actually like oh wait I'm not actually

Playing the game And then you realize you have to collect like the fucking like fish books or something And you're just like Yeah once you get through easy mode Yeah and the game just cuts off It's like sorry you want This game is not

For babies. It just makes you go back to the beginning. These games, the games you release this stuff, like when Alien Homonide came out, homin, Homicide, Alien Homicide. Alien Homicide. But it's like, that game came out, it just kicked my fucking ass. I didn't know what to do. I was like.

It reminded me a contra. Yeah, the first time I played it, I was just like, this is, this will be fun. And just got mulled down by like, the game security. And I was just like, oh, fuck. Like even that fucking robot game, cathode robots. Right, okay, robot. You get, you get people, you get people, coming in and they just make like the hardest shit ever. You're just like, oh my god, I want to rip my fucking head off.

These are the games that you all made here, right? Yeah, so far, yeah. So wait, Raybot was these two guys. Tynchronic was like your second coding? Um, that, yeah, I think, okay, so, right, I would swap African Mastermind World Conqueror. That was my first time making a game. I never programmed in Flash before outside of like, uh, pre-lilters. So, yeah, so when you made, uh, and menus.

When you made World Conqueror and you released it, how many, like, how many, like, bugs were there in there? Oh, plenty, all the time. Like, uh, one of the big game-breaking ones was that some Sometimes enemies would just run off the map and just keep going forever. Nowadays, I could fix this in a second. But it was hard to test because you're working in Flash. That's just the nature of the beast. And the game-breaking bug was, like, they would just run off. And so you're always under attack is what your thing says.

You can continue to play, but your game never auto saves. So you're basically stuck there until you buy another base and, like, evacuate this one. But then you lose the base forever. You know what you said they ran off the screen? Do you ever see The Lord of Rings 2 DVD commentary? For the movies? Yeah. Yeah, I watched all those on a lonely day in college.

Do you remember the part where they're like, we made these like army simulators. Oh, yeah. And then we noticed that some of the orcs were deserting their battlefield, and they were running into the forest. Yeah, right. Like when you see the battle of Mortor, like, when they're, like, doing the flashbacks to the humans fail. They thought they had created, like, artificial intelligent fear. Right. What they had done was badly programs, a really crappy AI simulation.

And the DVD commenters are saying it, though, like, they created, like, really, life, like little orcs. Because to be fair, you can't animate, like, hundreds of thousands of guys all fighting at the same time. It's an amazing feat that they did this. But then they're marveling at the birth of their new creation, which is not a movie about a guy that you're holding over in his grave

right now. Yeah, I just forgot about it. And his book creation, but no, instead they've created, they've given birth to new life. Yeah. No, those guys are idiots. To back up a second, I think that there was a lot of great stuff in that game. The thing that sucked the most was... Yeah, yeah, the thing that sucked the most was, yeah, the thing that sucked the most was, we made it on fairly, you know, average, good speed-running

computers, and then we just ran slow. for a lot of people. I remember I couldn't even export the game at the end. I could test it, but every time I went to go export it, the game would break for me. Like, it would fail exporting? So we had you doing it on your Mac. My PC was just failing at this.

Running the game in general also. I just remember exporting files and flash was a fucking nightmare. Tom, I think that was like the main reason everyone wanted to YouTube. Was like, to upload a cartoon to New Grans. You had to make a cartoon in such a way that you know that after, I think it was 14,000 frames. It starts to crash or something. But you also had to code in that ad API, which was a piece of shit, and the preloaders were a piece of shit.

And if you wanted it to stop after the cartoon, you'd have to go into the file thing and click and stop. And stop. Yeah, and nobody knew how to do any of that. Someone was really intimidated. That's why like when something came, oh my god, dude. Or no, not something. Swivel is a fucking godsend. Yeah, Swivel.

That's what I meant to say. Swivel. Swivel is a godson. It's a flash converter and it's so handy. It is so good. The other thing, too, I thought Tom's, his all-in-one preloader was, like, magic to be. Oh, God, yeah. I used to always, like, steal the Newgrounds.

Like the free downloadable. Oh, yeah. I used to put code, like, at the beginning and the end, and it was terrible. I took that, I dissected that for all my blockhead cartoons, my preloaders were all just a modified version of your... The porn flashes on ShatSight, the head of the loader. It's a Newgrounds preloader. I just fucking changed pictures around and you stuff. Creating a free preloader was, like, a really smart move because so much Flash had our

preloader on it and you'd see other websites would come along and they'd have that play button like they'd strip out all of our logos and stuff but they'd always still have that play button like they didn't know how to like that had to be like the way a web animation started I think I'd probably some like it's so universal like when you go to like sites and just like free games you're like this is a Newgrounds preloader so you know immediately that it's like these people just stole assets from games and just like use the preloader because it's there and it's like you had different versions you had Christmas versions you also

had one that just like automatically plays with a lot of like spam people use, me included, you like wait for it to loan and then suddenly just your speakers explode because there's just static and noise immediately after. I don't think I ever made my own pre- because I tried following tutorials and stuff because I used to go to Newgrounds for like oh I want to make a game, I'll just use Newgrounds tutorials will teach me how to do like basic coding stuff like that shit. But then these people they're like they're wrong and people in the comments are like, your tutorial didn't help me, you got all your stuff wrong and they were just like

fuck you in the comments. Nothing ever changed, so there was always like something in the back of my mind, but when you guys started designing your games What was the first problems you ran into that you never thought of what about the details of like the running and stuff? How did that come along? Because there are so many bits of details like running on water causes you to start slipping and sliding so you have to like Oh and then change shot? Yeah. Yeah. First I guess to fire off the answer to Chris's thing I know that one of the biggest problems easy to just like turn flash into a punching bag It's it's really really easy to do that but yeah not knowing that the first you go into a game and you can't back off like you're not having a problem

with the game you're having a problem with the flash cannot handle something of that size right I had that problem with Project Nexus 1 Ching Kong Beautiful was no different I'm glad that we stopped the game right where we did with the content we had fine for a flash game didn't need any more stages and we could have been really unlucky if there was like one more stage we were trying to shove in there and if Flash had just said no it's just not gonna happen we're not gonna export it your assets are gonna get swapped around and messed up and hopefully we'll talk about that later that like

It happened with Final Fantasy 7 where they got to a point where they're like, this is so buggy, we're just gonna release the way it is, because if you add anything else, it's just gonna like break it more. And it's mystifying that that would be how that works. You think that you write the code and that the more code you write, it's not that one new piece of code is screwing something else up, that happens all the time. It's that the engine or platform that you're using just can't handle it and then things start to break apart for entirely different reasons.

Yeah, certain memory loads weird, because even like levels, it's like, what is, like, destroying the game and you find out it's just like one movie clip that has. has a little too much frames and just that one area. And I never understood how to do scenes and Flash and how to like put all that shit together. It's also scary when you're all working with different computers. So Jeff will draw something in CS3 on a Mac and then hand it to me and I'll open it and CS5.5 on a PC. And I have no idea like what weird shit is breaking in that file.

Yeah, exactly. And I'm still like using like, and he, which is weird too because you use a Mac and I still use Windows. So we can somehow and some weird circular swap between a Mac to a Windows. to a Mac to a Windows. And it's like weird because Flash like stopped making stuff after, kind of like prior to that, like Flash 8 is for CS3 and then CS4 is CS3, then CS6 is like CS4 and 5 or whatever and it just sort of like does that.

The down saving? Yeah. Oh yeah, you have to swap between. That is like things. You have to leapfrog from episode to episode of this stupid program. It is the words. For people who don't know what is, if you've got Flash 4, you can't open Flash 5 files, so you gotta go into Flash 5 on someone's computer and Dan save it to a CS4 format.

Exactly. But the big problem is if you have CS3, I need to also own CS4. I need to save a CS5 to CS4, then open CS4 and save it down to CS3. And you have to own every copy of flash that comes between it because they even made it now, so the fucking published settings won't even open if you don't own it. So you actually physically have to own CS4 in order to downgrade it from CS4 to CS3 to give it to somebody to downgrade that or upgrade that to CS4. You know, I think they finally fixed that. I hope so. I think in CS5, or 5.5. and six, it says, like, you're opening a file that's different. I think for later versions they did try to fix that. To me, Flash was always, like, it was just, like, MS paint, but with tools you can use that make pictures move and stuff, like, MSPaint with a picture, because it's very basic.

And we could start, like, talking to, like, the visuals of, like, problems. Yeah, because I'm working in 3D. Chris has got some opinions on 3D, too. He's been... Things like, okay. Start, when you start making the game, you notice, the more detailed your characters, the more you really feel like you can't get away with. For example, if there's like an idle animation,

the character's standing there, and a run, it looks weird. Like, you can't get away with what people used to get away with on an 8-bit Nintendo games, where, you know, there was like stand, run, jump. Now we have to, like, make little transitions between every year. Oh, yeah, yeah. Just, like tiny transitions, like a one-frame fucking transition.

But it somehow all comes together in the end, and it's just like, how the fuck does this work? But then you're just, like, I'm just going to mimic this? Just like I used to do in the past, and it's all I'll be perfect. I mean, Ching Chong Beautiful had the same thing. Like, we swain through on all these transitions. We had so many things about it.

Yeah, well, first you kind of decide what is the character gonna do. And there were no transitions in the beginning. The very first copy of the game, I know it's floating out there somewhere. I think it's on my Dropbox. Yeah. Is this stick figure with the basic engine of the character. I basically did all the like physics stuff in like two days, maybe a day. And it was broken as hell and I tweaked it over time to get more contact points

of the game would know if you got hit in the midsection or the feet or the head. There's different animation. That's kind of like, for instance, when a character gets knocked down, depending if he gets knocked down forward, he falls on his stomach. But if he gets knocked back, he falls on his back. So it's context-sensitive also to the movements. And that's really fucking cool, because people don't usually pay. It's not to talk down upon these indie sprites games,

but they usually have, like, a, if it's very simplistic, it's just like a one-frame thing. It's like hurt, fall down, up. And it's like six frames. And, you know, things like Terraria, which is just like the characters move and it's just like this, like skeleton that has this all connected to one part, You could essentially like swap things out.

These fucking characters, everything is hand-drawn. It's one of the other challenges of all this too, is you get the better your animation is, you start getting into the Prince of Persia territory, which I always hated. It was so much about looking at all this beautiful animation that it took away your control over the character. Like to me, it always felt like that. It didn't feel like twitchy. Oh, you mean the first Prince of Persian? Yeah.

No, no, no. No, no. No, like the old, old computer. Restored. The animation was beautiful, but he, you bet you could barely interrupt them. If you like took the effort to stop. for a moment and decide you wanted to move again. I hope you weren't going to be doing anything for the next

couple minutes of your life because you're dedicating it to the cool. Let's talk about that. Like, if I animate a character, if I want to make a character jump initially I would make him crouch down like you normally would see in an animation and they like spring up and jump. It doesn't really work in a game.

You have to dissect it. When you're about to get by a bullet, you don't want to see your guy crouch before he jumps. You want him off the ground as soon as possible. There's that game that Paul Robertson art where they did that where that, to no fault of his own, he animated the character crouching down and jumping, but they left that in the game, so it always feels like there's this annoying delay in the gameplay. It'd be like Mario pausing for like a second before he jumps.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right, because he's got to coil his legs up and then throw his momentum. I don't mean to like random. The Kingdom Hearts did do that. I don't want to rag on Kingdom Hearts. But every single fucking time soar his clunky-ass jumped, he had to pause and then jump into the air like an asshole. So he could not avoid anything. When he lands to him.

Yeah, he also had to have a half. animation of him recovering from his landing. And that's a tough thing too, because sometimes you could say it's a part of the game. They learn these mechanics, they adapt around it. So there could be like a positive argument for some of it, but I prefer feeling as much

control as possible at all times. You want to jump immediately. You want that evasion. You don't want to have to know, okay. See, that's the thing, right? Have you played Abes Odyssey or Heart of Darkness? It's like the same thing. That's what I'm about saying, heart of darkness. It feels good in those, though. But have you played GTA 4 or 5?

Every time you're like turning around, like your character like stops and like skids on the ground and then takes like a few seconds to start running back and it always felt weird. Or if you're on the side of a building in GTA 4 looking down, if you push up on the controller, he'll like, he won't just like edge forward like in an old game. He'll like take a full step forward and he'll fall off every single time. Yeah, or if you're like on the edge of a building and you're like you're going forward and you decide I want to jam the controller back. So now he walks towards me. So now he'll like you don't know. You don't know, is he going to turn left? Yeah.

And fall off the building. Is he going to turn right? Yeah. Because in Vice City it was coded like simply so like you tapped up. and he'll just take a really quick step forward and stop instantly. And then these games, they're like, we want to make them animated more, so they'll take a full fucking walk around

every time you try and just edge backwards. Have you ever noticed on a PS3 controller? Because I think I've had it happen on multiple controllers. The analog stick has like a springback where it'll actually, like, if you're holding right and you release it, it springs back so far that your character points left. What really? So like when I play Rogue Legacy now,

I play it with like the plus pad because I keep any up in these situations where I'm facing the opposite way of an enemy, but I know it happened to me in Castle 2 on PS3. And I think I've had it happen on multiple PS3s with multiple controllers. It's weird. Like now it's like sensitive to the point where no matter where like you actually move back. Yeah and part of that could be in the game code of because you can check the sensitivity of the controller.

So we sort of have a variable that we set for our sensitivity level. So it's not like. There's only so much of that threshold where you start to move the stick where it feels like the controller is still sending too much info. I always hated that too like where you're like moving and then suddenly you stop and then there's like that weight period. And I also know what you're talking to where it's like that 3D space where they have have to like almost take a whole other walk around so if you had to turn on an edge you were already going off the edge like I've never gotten used to it I've been like playing Gt84 since it came out and every time I'll push back in the control he'll like you know

walk around circle and always fall off Granted that of three it's like you those games you like you're running like an ass level you turned on a dime like you just can go with Red Dead redemption just like uh they're just super animated so they'll always be running all over the place you're trying to do simple action yeah just like you guys uh you're talking that you've designed an idle animation that's great so now the run animation has to be great and the transitions need to be great. So that's what they did. When GTA 4 transitioned out of three and five did the same exact thing, they've set the standard for everything looking good. It's like not just a game, but a simulation. They're putting you into that with this character.

They're also simulating the realism of a character how he would walk, right? Which unfortunately, you're not him. You only have a controller for the wide range of motions that a human being can do in that scenario. And that level of complication, they've stuck to it. They can't make it simple. And what's also important is not to be too overly animated. Like you can be animated, but not to a point where you just have so much exaggeration in movements because you're going to be seeing that a lot. And that's going to become very obnoxious when you're in like the heat of the moment and you have this like asshole like really flowing around and really getting into it. You're just like, I didn't want this. And now it's like I'm dying because I'm trying to figure out what's going on.

It's weird because it's kind of like a weird puzzle how like Jeff, you and Tom like fucking somehow make these things work where it's like a prior animation fits perfectly with another animation. But since it's going so fast, it tricks the eyes and you just sort of assume that it goes in clean. But if you actually broke it down frame by frame, you would see that it's like a different animation. This is an interesting topic in like fighting games, the combat, like in Castle Crashers, when you're tapping your attack button. Yeah. When you finish a move, there's like a little window where if you hit the button again, it will continue the combo.

Yeah. And something in the game we're working on now, it sort of exists. Expanded on that and have it a let's say before the animation's finished of the move If within a few frames you've hit the button for the next move it'll like log that and then run it when that moves done So it's sort of like a little bit of before and after and I wasn't sure there's an official term someone told me it's called buffering Yeah, but yeah yeah yeah people get mad with that in Dark Souls where you'll do it like you over buffer Yeah, yeah yeah that's something too because some games I think maybe in Dynasty Warriors like if I just mash the button four times fast Then you can just sit back and watch them do this long four-hit combo

And what we did, it's a smaller window than that. So you can't chew up four attacks at once. Like, at best, you could just get the next. I think Tekken does that or did that. Like, you have to have already input most of the commands for the attack you're about to, like, sequence. I always liked how Tekken's fighting system was. I was a big fan of how Tekken was.

Like, you could punch in most of the commands at the beginning and just watch your guy finish his combo. It was still timing, but... I guess it might have been the characters you play as. Like, you play as the Law. Yeah, Law. I think it was, Law was, like, the Bruce League. Yeah, Law.

Slah. really cool like a, he had really cool like timed hits and stuff. I can't get into fighting games, I just can't do it. Dude, I played Tekken fucking, I was like 13, 14. One thing I will say though is that like ever since I was younger, I thought Tekken was really boring and it had no

charm and even though I don't like fighting games I still think Street Fighter has the most charm out of all the game. Street Fighter is insane dude. That game is fucking nuts. It's insane. It's like, just like and this is coming from somebody who's completely ignorant. I didn't understand Evo.

I thought Evo was just a bunch of rowdy people throwing fucking TVs and punching each other I thought it was like a mosh fit I was just like why these assholes get so excited over fucking fighting games and then I sat down and watched it and I was legitimately enthralled and I was like these motherfuckers are like insane they're like human

computers that can just read people and it's nuts yeah once you understand the mechanics of the game you realize these guys are making decisions on like 160th of a second it's insane and there's so many things that are done that are so smart and nobody really even appreciates it because they don't really understand what they're even seeing.

Exactly. That's with TVs, too. Like, I guess the best TV, the input lag on a TV is something like 18 milliseconds is like the best you can do. Fighting game players are... If you don't use a computer, you have to use a gaming computer monitor? The biggest hipsters in it. Not even hipsters. They want the least lag humanly possible.

They use it like all TVs, right? They will buy... Yeah, Affernative did this for Smash Brothers. Just the practice for a tournament level. These make these special TVs, they only sold the airports or something. They're these super special low lag TV They have like no controls on them They're like bare minimum

And fighting game players With like special order these stupid things It's like the least anyway Wait that's something that really annoys me about uncharted Uncharted has like lag Like built into the controls anyways So like Uncharted 3 I couldn't play Because my TV had lag

And Uncharity had lag So it was unplayable What is the purpose of lag Is it like contextual so that your moves are interpreted There's no purpose It's just the fuck up Do you remember, um, had you ever played a Donkey Kong 64? No.

They actually compensated with the lag. I think rare thought of this in the future. Like, when things lagged, they made your character move faster. So when environments were lagging, you moving faster made you think, oh, it's completely normal. Like, I'm just moving fast. And you can, like, see the difference where if you, like, had a character who long jumped. If you made a ton of lag and then long jumped, you would go, like, a hundred feet forward. And I don't think they realized that people would shoot, like, 100 oranges that would explode,

and then you just long jump afterwards and fucking launch across the screen and hit walls. But it is like something that's like kind of really smart. Because it's like if you were actually playing dot con that game was fucking filled with the bramble shit that lag. It's different from input lag. It was kind of the same thing

because there was also like a delay with the lag since there was like no memory on the N64. It was so minimal. There was input lag and actual framework left. It was there to render like base level objects to make everything look like a weird polygon world that's in. Yeah. And then Donkey Kong was just a bunch of pre-rendered stuff, wasn't it?

Yeah, so they had to, like, highly detailed images. For that and stuff. He's talking about 64, though? 64, right? Yeah. Something that might have been related to that is they're trying to make the game look like you're moving just as quickly, even though the frame rate has been reduced. Yeah, I think it's set up some...

Something that they were probably doing wrong, and I can't explain the math behind this. Mike can explain it. I've been talking about this, by the way, just recently. So if you have a game that runs at 30 frames per second, and when you press jump, let's say you put a negative 20 is your speed and you're graphic. is 1 and that makes your character go up like negative 20 negative 19 negative 18 and eventually they hit 0 and then they become positive 1 2 3 and they fall back down Yeah, so if you're doing that at 30 frames per second and then you change your game to 60 you think you can just cut all those values in half and you'll get the same result just smoother like oh It'll be negative 10 and half point 5 gravity and he'll move up to the same amount and fall but it's different though like it changes

Really? Yeah even though twice the frame rate and half the values does not work they ran in like sometimes, I mean, 30, obviously, is the highest they could go, but sometimes it went to, like, 12 or like 15. Have any of you guys played Fallout 4 yet? Because I had this conversation with Mike. I don't know if he sent you the video. He sent this to me, he's like, here you go, Swain. Don't worry, this happens to everybody.

And he shows me that Bethesda really screwed up with Fallout, where the game speed is tied to your frame rate, which is, it's insane. If your game is running at, like, 120 or something insane like that, you're zipping around. You drop stuff, it falls. Yeah, it's crazy. Animation speeds, movement speeds, and physical.

I think I read the same thing with deals with the new halo. The physics are tied to the frame rate. It's a screw-up. It's the difference between- I haven't seen that happen since what like When those 90s. But they've been using the same game engine for like 20 years. They have really Right. The only time I've ever seen that happen was with the Simpsons cartoon studio. Yeah, yeah, I remember that the game we're working on right now has a lot of lip-syncing in it So I generate data on the lip-syncing and right now that data is basically ticks on a timer where it's like the mouth will be here one second in, two seconds in, but it's all just ticks of frames. And because it's ticks of frames, if you have slow down,

like let's say the game doesn't have a slowdown on local play, but in the online play it starts to slow down or something, then the lip syncing wouldn't keep up with the voice. So I need to change it to actually look at your clock. Like, instead of looking at the ticks, it has to look at the clock and be like, oh, a second has passed. Oh, wow. Regardless of how many ticks, whether it's gotten 60 ticks or 30 ticks.

That was an issue I had when I was like fucking around with game audio and stuff Because I was always trying to learn the difference between streaming audio, having an audio and a movie clip, and just try and understand the difference. And I was just like, obviously streaming audio is what I was so used to. So I was like, I'm going to try and make a game with streaming audio. It's easy. I'll just put a game with 150 frames,

and then I'll put the fucking audio that just ends up looping infinitely. Yeah. Because you run into all these sounds like. You could skip frames. Yeah. Like Flash will skip frames in order to make the animation keep up. Like, that's good for lip syncing and Flash. You set at the stream and your animation will skip frames of,

has to in order to keep up with the audio track. That's, I think, the unique thing about what we're, even though it's not new or uniquely, but we have characters built out of multiple pieces. So the head is always separate. So the head can just do whatever at once at any point. It can talk and eyes can look around. Yeah, the main idol head is actually very animated. One way I always like to look at these games is a, like as a kid, I was really into

video games and then Dragonslayer came out in arcades. And everybody, everybody would say how DragonsLare had the best graphics of any game, And it made me mad because I knew they were cheating. They were just... And that was like the beginning of QuickTimer events, which I've never liked QuickTimer events. But, yeah, I didn't like it how they were, like, cheating because it wasn't...

They took away so much playability. And there's like that scale where you had Dragonslayer on one end and you had like Prince of Persia, which was sort of like in the middle there. And then you had like real Twitch gameplay, you know, responsive gameplay on the far left of that. And so I like to look at it now as like, I want games to look as much as possible.

Like, if someone's watching you play a game, I want it to look as much as possible. like they're watching a cartoon on TV, but I also want it to be like totally responsive controls. That's kind of what we're aiming for. Yeah, I want to be like you're playing a cartoon. That's pretty much what it's... Here's a question for Tom, right about.

Like, what old Skarkade game and you're a kid? Like, what were you most impressed by that you're just like... Mortal Kombat for me, first time seeing me. Moral combat? Yeah, the pre-rondered stuff, it tricked me. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, this is hand-drawn. This is amazing.

Yeah. I mean, that was what was... I think everybody, everybody was kind of blown away. The most impressive stuff, like, 3D, I think, like, the real, like, 3D game, I had at the time was like Roadrash. Roadrash 3D0 really impressed me even though. Yeah, that was, that was a really good game.

One of the only good 3D0 games. Oh my god, dude, Roadrash, that game, I love that game. Going back to like arcade stuff, one of my earlier memories is Double Dragon, just how much fun double dragon was. And it's interesting because Double Dragon still did some things that like people haven't really done since like doing like the Fool Nelson where enemies could have you in a full Nelson and punching you and stuff like that and fighting each other at the end. Which that's something that was adapted into Castle Crashes. Streets of Rage too just ripped that shit off. They just, it was Streets of Rage was like, This is Double Dragon for Sega.

Yeah, and it's still good. It's really fucking good. But like, it's like you play it and after a while you're just like, this game's too fucking long. If you play it on hard, you're just like, I give up. I can't get passed out of this shit. Well, another game, it was really cool that no one ever really saw anything else.

Do you remember attack of the planet of the robot monsters? Or escape from the planet of the robot monsters? It was like this isometric game that part of what makes it stand out my memory so much is because there never was a home version. I think there might have been a computer version and What kind of game was it? It was still like an isometric run around and shoot at these like robots. It kind of had like I don't know like a 60 Sci-fi vibe to it. What's is it like like a Emetric like smash TV? Slice or something was it a little bit like that but yeah more cartoony after burner I blew my mind. Yeah, the scaling. It was just so fast and just uh, I don't know just amazing. I was like amazing graphics for you. Yeah, I remember being at like some shitty like hotel looking place and they had it there and I just remember spending like $20 worth of quarters and just playing the fuck out of it for like four hours.

What the hell was that tank game? That was a cool thing about arcades too back then. I go on this rant sometimes about this magic that's left the world because you didn't have the internet and you, when you went to the mall, you had no idea what new game was going to be the arcade and how it was going to like completely change your perception of reality. Like one day you'd walk in the arcade and there'd be Street Fighter and people line up to play Street Fire and one day you'd walk in and it'd be virtual fighter where it's like 3D polygons and it's like it was always the most cutting edge stuff and you had no idea it was coming that was that just made it magic and that's it was always like little thing like if the four-player x-man arcade game they to make it look like an extra long monitor they had one monitor and then there was a monitor below it that was mirrored up which eliminated the

scene between the monitors and look like one six player six player it was really cool wow when you guys are programming games what do you think what do you think it's like something that's hard to do that just is not appreciated whatsoever by people um like I think I think One I think it was like the camera. Like I know Tom and I, the camera stuff is always this really complicated thing that nobody thinks about. Originally Tom, I ran Project Nexus One by you in the beginning. You were the one who first said, okay, so when you get to the edge of a map, you get to it, the camera, you know, maybe the camera should stop and then you continue to walk, but the camera stops moving

so that you're like not approaching this door and you have like half a screen of just black nothingness, right, of empty negative space. Like yeah, great, that's perfect. I love that. So I just typed it in, I coded it in. Cameras exposition can't go past this Which is to say in Flash that you don't drag the world past a certain point like done so the world is moving and not a camera Oh yeah, there's there's no such thing as a well I mean there is a camera You can do virtual cameras in Flash so when a guy walks this way

What you're actually doing is moving your movie clip inside like the character inside the movie clip of the background Right and then you drag the whole background to proportionate distance that way when you make a game and you're like a two D game and you're moving the world to suit the camera that doesn't affect the memory Like at the same way a camera would I'm not saying I'm not saying it's not but as far as I know as I know Oh, I never messed with any virtual cameras, so I couldn't say as to how they were doing it. Right. But I'm assuming it must be something that's tricking the, like, flash into working basically the same. You want to hate in 3D games what you're talking about? When the camera will, like, automatically pan behind a character after like a few seconds.

Well, 3D is such a massive pain, because the reason I brought up the Nexus 1 example is we have a very similar system in Nexus 2, where we have, it's 3D, it's full 3D, but the levels still basically go side to side. And I needed to find a way. I couldn't even tell you how I finally did it, and I'm pretty sure it's just a bunch of made-up, like, nonsense. But to get that same effect in 3D where you hit the edge of a rail that overlooks the city and you want to give them

a little bit of a view. Yeah. If they keep going but you don't want to just like cut it off like right there. So like getting those like these little markers in place that the camera understands whether or not it's it's within the view of the camera. Right. And also being able to deal with because you're no longer doing a flash game where you designed the aspect ratio. Now you're making

a game for any aspect ratio for any TV screen or monitor that plays this. You got to account for that. Now I was running into this stupid but but totally reasonable problem where if somebody's playing in an ugly looking like square monitor, when they get to the edge of the map, they're going to like lose most of the map. So now I've got to account for the aspect ratio of the viewpoint as well. I hate the camera.

It is my worst enemy. I always thought like another thing that in general, like how collision works. There's a lot of factors to collision. Like when you see games where it's like you run really hard and something like... Clipping, right? When you like show through the wall. Yeah. And we're talking 3D, right?

Yeah. Because Tile is hard to break. 3d because it's like for instance there's like parts where it's like layers that have to overlay so the character has to know that the code tells us to go through it it's really interesting to try and make things look natural or even like the water effects and stuff because I was just spending time jumping around the water when I jumped sideways the water actually tilted with me in which game our game the one you work yeah when you the water actually like tilted and

then when I jump straight up it goes straight up yeah that I'm like really high like delays there's just all this like fucking different shit and It's just like, how does it manage? Plus, just adding, just having some water on the ground. Yeah. It's basically like as soon as you land in that water, you have a mask over your body that's basically showing the part of you above the water line. But also, you know, your shadow was always looking to be at your feet.

But once you're in water, your shadow actually moves up to be around your body sticking out of the water. Oh, really? And that makes some weird things happen because I would like reference certain things based on where your shadow is too. So it's like that'll get weird when you start messing with the shadow. And then it's also when you jump, when you jump out of the water. You're no longer in the water, but it realizes your shadow is still in the water. So your shadow still appears on the top of the water instead of being on the platform that's under the water. Oh yeah, yeah, it's like, see the crazy thing is Tom, you think about that.

Most fucking people don't even think about that. Well, it's another one of the problems with making a game, because the artwork is so good, the better the game looks, the more challenges you run into with things that you just can't get away with things anymore. And there's all sorts of weird things. Like, so our games, it's 2D, but it doesn't play too, but it doesn't play too. 2.5d because it is like straight side-scroller but it's visually 2.5d where you see the floor that you're standing on instead of like a straight line and when you see a door on the wall it's sort of like a 3d perspective that you walk through so like when you

walk through that doorway there has to be a layer of artwork that's in front of the player so I'm the layer that's behind right yeah and the layer is behind but where it gets weird is like where does that layer end you have to decide where that cutoff is because that's where you kind of get the clipping effect where like you can swing your weapon and it can vanish behind some art above the door. Yeah. Because somewhere it has to end.

And there's like the background like parallax scrolling. Like that's also like like you introduce that mechanic where now you can actually like go into the background, into the layer of the scrolling like background. So now you have two sections and you also have to like if you're punching and fighting enemies back there. It's just like it's I don't have you guys dealing with depth like in 2D. I don't miss that like working in 3D it's pretty easy. The shader dictates it and it's done. That pixels in front of another one.

Let's move on. and two-dead men, that was a nightmare. I think about it in layers and how these doors are moving with each other. And I don't think about that, Jeff. I'm like, I'm just going to fucking make this messy sketch and give it to Jeff and let it. Let's see what he does. Corey and I have this system where, you know, I, yeah, I'm overly detailed. Yeah, overly detailed.

I like moving, I like tweening and moving symbols. I like making, like, detailed parts and moving around. And sometimes that hampers my creativity a little while. instead of like redrawing a character spinning around, I'm just like, I'll try to do it with some parts already have made, but Corey's like, fuck that, I'm just drawing every frame, drawing

every frame doesn't fucking matter, and I'll give it to Jeff and let him fucking deal with it. But it doesn't but the end of the day, it makes it look better. It forces me to say, all right, I'm just going to have to redraw all this, but it actually makes it look fluid and... I'm always worried that I'm like, I might be doing too much. It might be, because I have that, I have that, like, slow,

tweenish, like, bounce effects and stuff. We can always cut back, but it's It's good that, yeah, I mean, when I do my punch combo and then I give it to Corey and he animates a rough new punch combo and I remake it with Corey's guide, then it just looks like 10 times better, so... I think we compliment. I think we all compliment each other because we all kind of know what we're like talking about and stuff.

Yeah. It's a group effort. How come you never asked Chris if you wanted to make the game with you guys? Yeah, it was really mean. We did. He's here now. Oh shit. Chris has been doing music.

Yeah, that's true. Doing music. A little bit. It's crazy though because like sometimes it just feels like, it just feels like, he's here It just fits perfectly. If you go up to the boss and immediately starts and just the music is like, it's like something from a cartoon where it's like set perfectly in sync. It's like the only thing I can bring to the table here is that I know how to make music suit a situation very easily.

That's fucking important though for the kind of thing. It's actually been because the music was one of the big struggles where I guess early on I always pictured this 80s horror synth sound. And I kept like a John Carpenter soundtrack kind of thing. I kept digging around for stuff and there's nothing. would work. And then when we finally, you know, Jeff had mentioned a few times of putting Chris stuff in. And then when we finally did, then it just all worked. Tom, Tom made his face at me every time I said, he's like, I'm going to my 80s thing. See, Jeff wanted Danny Elfman orchestral stuff and Tom wanted 80s synth slash chip tunes. Not really, the chip tunes was actually

placeholder. That was never intended. I like Tom's, it just kind of worked. I like Tom's idea what he wanted to do. But then every time, okay, we animate everything. There's no audio. Then we played it with a little bit of music and we're like, something's missing here. This is really weird. Do we realized, because I had so much shit going on in the background, we needed ambient audio. So we need like gear grinding noises and things and wind and- Yeah, that's another thing we don't get away with.

And in old games, no one had to, no one thought about what sounds the backgrounds we're making, like an old 2D games. But now, now everything has to make a sound. Like you can't have something on the screen that looks like it would make a noise. Sometimes just ambience by itself really works too. It does. It does. Depends on the context. We had that.

And we had the characters then start talking. And then we need it. Then we're like, okay, now we need music that isn't going to drown out the talking, which is also another challenge. And that's an important thing about your music too, because a lot of musicians, they max out all their levels because they think it makes it sound louder, and that sounds good to people a lot of times. But that also completely drowns out the talking.

Something that a lot of games do is when someone, or when a character starts talking, they'll mute the lead instrument. And we do that. Oh, just the lead instrument, though. Yeah, so like there might be, like, you know, the drums, the bass and the lead, and they'll mute the lead, so... Oh, I know what you're talking about. They did that in Kingdom Hearts a lot. Yeah, yeah.

So... But then there's, like, some, like, there's, like, examples where they just kind of, like, turn the audio down. Yeah, that's fine, too. That works fine, too. Yeah, but it's, like, it's actually better when they just can kind of take that out and have, like, that ambient stuff. Yeah, it's more organic that way. So, yeah. When you're doing the music, you can render the lead and then everything else behind it and have them both playing on top,

and then the character starts talking and you'll just like turn down to leave. The whole like the idea of like designing a game, it really is like, um, I guess there's a lot of factors you have to think about because there's a lot of like, when we're designing it's like, is this fun to people like this? Is this a good idea? Will this be fun? Is this gonna take too long? And it's just like, you never think. And then it all comes down to like you, you see these people like these games that get released. And I didn't really want to get into a tangent about this,

but it's like kind of something that there's people like, say, oh, this game sucks, it's horrible, controls are terrible, Everything about it is bad. And it's like, they probably went through development hell because it's so fucking bad. It's like, there's probably some other reasons

as to why it's like really controls terrible and stuff. Yeah, they didn't like, all right, last day of work, we finished, right on time. They hold up,

he's like, mhm. Exactly. My magnum opus. Right. No, that didn't happen. They're like,

shit. We ran out of money. I think people, we got to get this out of the door. They just get mad at like the big developers because they should know better than release a game, not finished.

They should just delayed or whatever. But then that bitching and then that response has become the standard. I think as long as companies are asking for pre-orders, that is to say we have no problems that our game will be good and that they can deliver whatever they want. It doesn't matter. It's been pre-ordered.

As long as they're doing that, I think people have the right to complain about it being garbage. But when people are creating a quality product or trying to and it ends up sucking, there should be a level of like take it for what it's worth or leave it. Exactly. Yeah.

But it's like, you know... To me, it's like it's a standard that goes hand in here. Yeah. Take the money for free, you know, in advance. We should move on. Okay, Vigia. games then. Video games. Swain, Swain, Swain, Swain, Swain.

Hey, buddy, boy. We're talking about Swain. Let's talk about Grisplay. All right. An early episode. This is the whole reason to play games is Grief Play. There was a story we told about you. Trucker Justin told me about this. I'll be happy I mention it. There was a story about how 9-11 happened.

Yeah. Well, that wasn't the first time I grief played. That wasn't griefing. That was him being a psycho. All right. All right. So, in my defense, of course, like, we were kind of talking about this earlier. You were old enough to know. better. Yes, I was. I was like, I was like 20. I should have absolutely. No, I think it was 2001. Yeah. So I was, I was 19 at the time. So I'm in college and I just found out about this. I'm not going to try to defend anything, right? I'm not going to try to cast myself in a great light year. It was a weird time. It was a strange time and I did not know how to deal with this. You know how to deal, right? I didn't know how to deal with it. Right. So, you know, a bunch of people just died. I'm, I'm a panic. I'm like, I'm like mine chamber. At the time, I can't stand flying. I'm terrified of it. So the idea is just like,

Like the cold sweats come on. I don't know what to do about it. So this is the weird, insane way that I cope with it is by going on to my favorite game, StarCraft. At this time, I have been since high school, like making games to grieve people. The whole point of the map is that you join it, and it finds new and creative, and I find interesting ways for the game to kill you without you having any chance of being able to win. There's no win. You can't win. It's just the game picks people off.

And it's all about me being able to kind of come in, like Agatha Christie, and then there were none. Like, I'm, the killer is one of the people that's like, it's like, Clue, basically. Right. The killer is one of you. So I'm in there, like, watching, participating, pretending like I'm just some dumb idiot. Oh, I love this game. I just downloaded this map from this guy.

I was fun. I'm going to play it again. You guys want it in? I've been designing these maps for a time, right? I made a map called, I think it was the World Trade Center RPG. I must have made this map in 30 minutes. If you put version, like, a high number, and then put the word gold all in caps after that, or platinum.

people like it more so it's a first version one of this game is version 5 gold and so it's already obviously gone through many renditions and many incarnations of testing and so the whole purpose of the game was you would sit there and you look at these two command

centers which are the human race in the game the Terrans have these like bases and they're not like skyscrapers or anything they're just like little round looking like fat boy donut buildings and then off the side of the screen two planes will each crash into each of these buildings, causing them to be set on fire,

and then they get destroyed in the opposite order they were hit, just like the World Trade Center. And then this text comes on the screen and goes, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I don't know. Eventually, after this, after this, the... It was like, they're like, dealt with it.

It's like, some doctor, like, yeah, you're fellow Americans, right? I was more like, ah, ha, ha. Your fellow Americans, dang. Yeah, my fellow... The first thing you do is going StarCraft and recreated. All right, now, this is where I will say, in my defense, I wasn't laughing then.

He's, like, crying, I didn't know how to do it. Yeah, I didn't know how to deal with it. I really, really didn't. I'm laughing now because I'm ashamed, yes. I'm very ashamed. Just like at the time, we created a game called Ching Chong Beautiful, and after the fact, like, in retrospect, that was probably a bad idea. So I won't describe the rest of the Starcraft map.

It doesn't get worse than that. That's pretty much, like, that's the gem. Is it possible to get worse than that? Well, there's a part involving a president and a sniper and a bunch of other stuff, and a lot of racism. See, I did something similar to that. I didn't pull any bunch of it. with this. And I deleted the map soon after I made it. I think I played it for like a day. I started a couple maps to see how people respond to it. And a lot of people are like, wow, this is great.

I'm not kidding. I did that. I did the same thing though with a flight simulator 95. Yeah. So my sister was in your you make me sick. No, but I was I wasn't even American. I was just like I wasn't a little edgy asshole. And I flew the plane into the end of the building but it doesn't explode. It just like it gets stuck to the building by its tip. And I was like, My sister, Ryan, I told my dad about it. My dad was just like... Ranan told him. Yeah, but I was just like... My dad doesn't like laugh at that kind of shit,

but he was laughing at how upset she was over. Yeah, right. That's what... To be fair, that's why I'm laughing now. And that's what I try to get out of the grief playing. Yeah, that's way worse than me. Yeah. Highly animated kids tumor exploding.

That's way worse than that. That's pretty bad. What games have we all played together that we've done this? Red Dead was a lot of fun. Red Dead was the one where you and I like really bonded. We were supreme dicks to everyone, and we'd hide in the saloon and just take out of the doors. Trying to play the game.

Everybody just come and trying to kill us. Yeah. What else do we got? Well, for me, it's like my, when I first, because I mean, of course I grieved whenever I got a chance. You have to. Yeah. It's obviously for me, it started with like, let's go. Let's go the Blue Basics.

We went with Minecraft, okay? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Minecraft was an easy target because you can join millions of different servers and you can just join, you can gain the admin's trust and fuck them over the last thing they know. Yes, you can. And it's like. And this is a game system where more than anything else, this isn't like, oh, I jump into COD

and I team kill. Like, oh, I ruined a couple minutes of this guy's life. Minecraft is the pinnacle of investment of player time. So I joined this guy's server. He had a bunch of beautiful monuments. They were like beautifully done.

And then I got with my friends together. I'm like, let's put C for it. Or like, let's put T&T under every single one of his things. And when he says that he's like going to update the server, let's blow them all up. I was going to ask how you deal with rollback. So he was saying like, hey, guys gonna update the server soon

and we were like oh fuck so we got together we had this like underground like redstone like fucking bomb thing set it off from 100 miles right when he was like he was like he was like talking about what he's gonna do because he trusted us four of us and we fucking set it off and he was like doing it and it exploded

and his server actually got so fucked up that he couldn't even go into it because his spawn points were all fucked up people were spawning near cows and like in like creeper ditches and shit and he had to completely redo his entire, we fucked him up so bad, we just destroyed everything. Bravo, bravo,

that's, no, I, I, I tried to sometimes avoid, like, it was infiltration. It was infiltration to, like, like, if somebody's, like, level of hubris is great enough, I don't mind, like, people destroying stuff. Like, it's really cringe-worthy, I think, and, Jeff, you probably agree. Yes, like, like, like, hitting on the waitress, you know? Like, it's just one of those things where you go in, and you,

you just pick on somebody, but if this guy was, was really asking for it, then I'm down with that. No, he was, no, he was actually, like, a huge prick, because he tried to restrict the blocks you could use. Like, I would be like, I told him, like... What a Nazi. Yeah, I was using, like, a lot of cobblestone or, like, hard cobblestone,

and he took it away, and I'm like, why can I use cobblestone anymore? He's like, you can only use brown dirt blocks because you've been using too much cobblestone and I only use, like, a 64 set. And I'm like, I'm like, I didn't know there was a restriction. And so I eventually... Whereas on his monuments, it's probably like he's using every block. He could fucking watch. Exactly.

He had, like, these fucking, like, Plymouth. He used to come there with his, like, autistic friends, and they would laugh and, like, be, like, recording this for my... I'm gonna do a school project. I'm recording this monument. I'm gonna show it off and like a big video montage. And I'm like,

Hugh Wait, motherfucker. I'm gonna find, I'm gonna find the right time. And he had all this stuff. He had like a spaceship. He had like a, just like a giant like a pyramid like thing. He was autistic to the max.

Now, Swain. I took him out. Swain wouldn't blow up a building, but his ideas were far. Insidious. Mine got like pretty psychedelic, like outside the realm of normal thinking. One of my favorites I saw people do,

but I never did, which I love, is, I think it's called lava stoning. I forgot what they call it, but so you could set fire to someone's house. There's a lot of funny videos where, like, the guy is trying to light his fireplace in his house. And he's like, this is how you set it up so the fire doesn't jump blocks. Because it'll, like, find nearby voxels and, like, set the blocks on fire. And right, and he sets fire to his house and the whole thing gets destroyed. And the whole video is, like, a minute long. Like, it takes no time at all.

Yeah, he's like, he's really soft-spoken and, like, here you go. Oh, oh, oh, wait, wait, oh, oh. And you don't wish it on him, like you're rooting for him, but you know what's going to happen. It's like a cringe video almost. You just feel so bad for him. You can feel bad for him, you can afford to because you know what's going to happen anyway, so you get the best of both worlds. His whole house is ruined.

So one thing I found from watching other people's videos, and I wish I could take credit for this, is you find someone's like monument or their home or something and you dump lava on it. Now, it sounds like, yeah, you could just like set fire to it or it's going to destroy the blocks. Not necessarily. What you need is you need enough lava and enough water. bucket so that you dump lava all over something like a house the lava will pour out as far as and as well as it can and then you dump water over it and then pick up the water block and what that does is it completely encases whatever thing you're doing their house their monument they're like their ship

their farm whatever in cobblestone and then you do another layer on top of that and you just encase their house in a cocoon of cobblestone that takes you no time at all because you could be placing t&T blocks yes you'd be placing cobblestone but just by placing the lava and letting it coat it in this like thin candy shell of lava and then building doing water on top of it, you just coat it. And you can do this inside their house. You can do this anywhere. And it gets destructive because they have to try to find their home. Dude.

Somewhere in here. Like, you know how they say that sculptors have to envision the shape underneath the block of marble? It's not more literally true. You're Michael Lankland. You're finding a real life experience. Do you remember when the sand used to be like something that when it fell on a player, it suffocated them? Yeah, I think it crushes now.

Yeah, yeah. But before when it actually suffocated and crushed them. Like it occupies the same space as you or something. We would like go to like these, there's like these big tree forts that people would get tree from. It was like a tree reserves in certain places. And we would like take sand and we'd stuff it in the top of the trees. When people were hitting wood, it would fucking suck. Kill them because they were like all these.

And you're digging up and you never dig up the background too. Yeah. And they would like suffocate them. And we would just spend most of their time sticking sand in the trees. I like that. Yeah. I love that. That's perfect.

Corey, you and I need to spend more time online. Okay. Yeah, I get it. Like, you have these logs, right, that represent the tree trunk. You just sit back and watch these people come up and start hitting and fucking die. That's perfect. Setting it up so that they kill themselves is the best. It's easy.

It's fun, kids, get on it. Tell the story. Well, in Tomomamoto's server, I think the first thing we did was I had discovered how, like, my goal was to make as much noise, like create sound pollution in Tomar's server. And this is our friend server. And he would share his link, I think, to the IP to get to this thing with people. So there were a lot of people I didn't know, which is great, because I don't like to grieve people I know. So I was trying to be more like Corey's being psychological with this. Their actions cause their defeat.

Exactly. So I discovered that you could build animal and monster generators, and we would create pig farms underneath people's houses where you would build the block and you'd place it. Because it was like full creative mode where you could, if you're admin, you could like do whatever. So I don't know why. Tomar to this day says he didn't want to stifle my creativity. That's why not only didn't ban me but kept me an admin on that server forever. Which is true. I felt the level of responsibility that actually kind of like leashed me in. So I wasn't going to destroy people's houses, but I was going to do things like build these pig generators under people's houses. You were going to make them voluntarily.

Yeah, like I just want to make it as bad an experience for them as possible without actually taking away what is quintessentially Minecraft to that. They can still play fully. They just don't know that next time they're off the server. going to mine underneath your house from nearby, and I'm going to build a little cavern underneath your home, your little corner of the world, and I'm going to build a pig generator next to lava and next to a soil, like a piece of, I've had to like get the sun to hit a piece of soil so it turns into grass, because otherwise it won't like spawn the animal on it. Then I have to cover over it, so I have to do it during the right time of day. And the grass, I think, doesn't go away after it's

covered, unless you dig it up and put it back down as dirt. The grass had to be next to lava so that the pigs would spawn and then jump into the lava and continuously die. And so they would, and this horrific sound of pig screaming would just would loop. And you can hear it for like, like chunks of the game away. Like yeah, the horrid,

but happening overlapping each other. So it's like you took your house and it just, it sounded like an abattoir. Like it sounded like something horrible was happening and it was. And it was going on right beneath your feet and he had no idea. And I got it efficient enough where I could do it in a like, like a too tall, like three by four area. So I could just have this little tiny pocket

underneath people's houses. When I had monster generators, there was like a few servers that were really, they had like really good like digging mods and stuff. And it was like one of those things where it's like when you got bit by a poisonous spider, you would legitimately like be poisoned. You'd actually need to go to a medical bay and stuff.

Yeah, I've seen like modded servers. So I made like fucking like 16 by 16 rooms and just filled them up with spiders and just stuck them all over. underground so when people were digging they would fucking open up a thing of spiders that would just come out and poison them right that like that urban legend of the chick who's got the pimple that it when it pops it's like baby spiders exactly but in the Minecraft experience yeah so they were like digging and I would purposely like put like iron blocks is that's like the most common thing people would dig yeah and I would put it in areas but they would already hear like they wouldn't know what it is yeah they would assume that it probably wasn't in front of an iron thing so I did that a lot I tried to get creative like I tried to do things where I put iron blocks underneath it there was like these things that uh i forget what they are but they kind of like smash eternally so if somebody stepped on them yeah like pistons i think yeah it would like shove them around

down there and eventually like if they would eventually like try to find their way out and it shoved in the lava i love that that's ingenious yeah just right just like move them around so they're not only they just like you've taken control of their player away of their character and their avatar but like when they finally get to play again they have no idea where they are yeah i love that so i pretty much eventually I haven't played Minecraft in a long time because it's just like, you know, kids like We eventually tried to create a meat grinder that would just like, it was an ultimate tower of just pigs dying.

With water was flowing down towards like cacti. Like we had layers of pigs. It didn't really work out that well. We just made infinite pigs and just kind of like lag the server down even for us. But I think the day that that server just like kind of went downhill from my actions was when I learned how you can get redstone to create like an energy pulse. But so that it loops forever. Like you create this infinite looper.

just keeps creating this like this pulse that goes on off, on off, on off, on off. And attach that to a music block or multiple music blocks. And you can infinitely create this. Doof, do, do, do, do, do, do. Or any instrument you want to type this one note. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And it would just happen forever. And I would place these underneath people's houses as well.

And I got to a point where people are expecting that, oh, Swain's going to just come and dig in and do this again. So what I started doing was I would place the music box in such a way where I'd create the music box and I started layering it with T&T. So, because it got to a point where this is back when if you dig a T&T block, it activates it. And so I was detonating entire, entire areas. Like, pulled their house and they had to find it. And I felt bad because apparently Ego Raptor and Tomar had built this huge recreation of Disneyland in California.

And I didn't know that a buddy of mine, I think it's impending riot on Newgrounds. He was, I think, the one who first started placing the T&T, not me. I was creating music blocks, my music traps all over Disney. He ruined. They ruined their whole world. Right, and he started placing T&T everywhere. He would, after I was done, he'd, like, create a sapper tunnel into my thing and put T&T so that when Tomar found it, it would blow up Disney and I would get in trouble.

So he was, like, like, counter-griefing me. He was a, he was a, he was a double agent, that son of a bitch. I think Tomar actually, by chance, managed to find the first one of those and ask me why I had done this, and I told him I didn't do that, I swear. And so he managed to like, we had him go in like a bomb squad team to like try to find the music boxes without Without detonating the T&T. Could you imagine like every hit you have to stop digging the moment and you like break the block? Knowing there could be T&T on the other side.

That must have been horrifying and I really do feel bad about that. Minecraft Bomb Squad. Yeah, well, because that's basically what it was. I remember their server. They had a, they allowed you to like turn invisible and shit and strike people with lightning. Oh yeah. Yeah, that was the when they did the survival mode, I think, right? The one that had creepers and everything.

was admin for like a day on that and then they think it was Igubon removed me yeah but um fucking i remember i followed the guy into a cave and i was like flying above him invisible and every time he got deep into the cave i'd punch a brick on the wall and make that that that that my noise like i was freaking out he was like punching around in the air trying to find look what was happening that's hilarious that was the one that was where i put the lava block and it was hypnosis the guy did the art for alice uh alice is dead hypnosis was playing and he never i don't think he likes me anymore um and i can't say as i blame him that's where i'm I dug the hole, like, one little block out of his ceiling

and put a lava in there and then placed like dirt right under it. So he's like, what I hate this? And dug it out. And I remember watching him go into his house and then seeing the prompt that it said he had just died from lava. And I felt really bad. I ran in there because he's actually trying to play survival mode and I'm just fucking around. And so I ran in there

to actually, I saved a bunch of his stuff that his character had dropped. Like his, like, I found the diamonds that he had dropped right on the edge of the lava right before it grabbed it. Because then all of his shit would have been gone. I'm like, dude, I'm so sorry. I contained it before his house caught on fire. I don't know how it. It's like getting killed by a freaking turtle.

It's like it turned on my ceiling and it just kills him. Yeah. Like I guess he dug it and just stood there and just waited till the lava caught him and he died. And I got in the one hand I felt bad, but I didn't because you kind of are asking for it at that point. Minecraft. Who cares? Yeah, it's mine. You guys, you guys have found a new, a new grief.

A new way to ruin people's lives though. Yeah, we did. Now, what do you know, Jeff about Space Station 13? Okay. Okay. Chris, Chris, I was on Skype when I, Chris is like, hey, I'm going to stream a game. You want to see it?

I didn't know what this was. He's like, yeah, it's called Space Station 13. It sounds like some, like, loser faggy shit, right? Like, that's, like, quote-and-a-quote, that's what it sounds. I'm like, is this some new games? Is this some new... This is, like, the newest thing. And he's like, well, yeah, but it's still, like, 15 years old,

but it's, for some... It's like... It's like... It's like... ...it some kind of resurgence. It's, like, an overhead view of a space station. Basically, it looks like a baby MS-Paint Lego drawings. It plays, like, one of the old...

still tell you. Let's start from the beginning, right? Okay. Me and Ding Dong were like, we're pretty good, like, we go around, like, stabbing people and eyes with screwdrivers. It's pretty great. That's become my signature movie. Like, you'll, like, run up to these, like, little cute characters and stab them in the

other screwdriver, and they're like, ah! And you're like, oh, man. And you stab them until the game indicates, like, they have fallen limp and gone like this. Yeah, yeah. Like, it, like, spells out what's happening. It's like, they're blind in one eye. They're lifeless, and you leave him, and you gotta drag him into, like, a locker, and, like, there's a blood trail that follows them and stuff.

Did you put them in the locker and weld it shut? Yeah, you can weld it shut, right? But this isn't the good part of the story. The good part is that I went over the Swain's house one day, and I was like, Swain, I think you might like this. And he was like, oh, okay. And I put it on. And at first he was kind of like, yeah, this is interesting.

This is pretty cool. And then, like, three weeks later, he's a fucking master griefer on it. He's like learned. But I really like the game. He's learned the way. He's learned every single system. He's learned how to be like an engineer. He's learned how to be...

The only one I haven't figured out is botanist, who shaft miner. But he's figured out all these creative ways to like fuck with people without getting banned. Every time the admin will message him and be like, why did you like do this? He'll have a fucking story and get away with it. Yeah, no, because I understand the rules. I understand both the in-game rules, aka space law. Which is how to behave in space and also the server rules.

And their number one rules don't be a dick. I want to watch you play because these guys, these guys murder somebody and they drag the body to like an airlock. They get rid of the body and they find out. Yeah, that's called spacing someone. get the body out of the airlock? They had a big chance to all. Tell us some of your best exploits. Okay, I remember when you and I were playing once,

I think you got jumped by a guy. He was like Apache Chief Something. I think he jumped you and we were completely cheating. And you were screen sharing, so I knew exactly where you were. So I went over to where you were. I stunned baton him. So I just beat him to death. I handcuffed him and at the time I couldn't figure out how to open the airlock.

I beat him in the head with the stun baton turned off so it didn't use up all the charges. I remember they asked me, why did I kill him? I'm like, I have proof that he attacked another member of security or something. My proof is that I meted the shit out of it, and if they knew that's banable, like, they'll get rid of you for life from that server. Yeah. And also, just a clarification. Chris is banned from every notable server.

I can't believe. I'm banned from all of them but one. Because in one day, we got banned from all of them because Chris was like, hey, this game is great. You just grieve people. You can just keep eating hamburgers until your character shits himself on the floor. And then when people run over the shit stain, like they slip. You hear it going, which is the most satisfying thing in the world. And they're on the floor for, like, a minute.

Yeah, it's like eight painful seconds of them just sitting there. We discovered that a totally legit job is janitor. It's underwhelming. It's underappreciated, but you have access to the most devious diabolical tool in this game, which is a mop and a bucket. And the reason this is diabolical is that you can clean floors. And your job is to go around wherever there's, like, muddy prints. Blood is almost everywhere, like in a station within five minutes of a new round starting.

Especially towards the end of the round, like, it just all hell breaks loose. And rounds last between an hour and a half. Like, they can go from anywhere from like 20 minutes to like three, four hours, five hours, whatever. if they just want to keep it going. And once you die and around, you're done. You cannot play again. So with the janitor, all you got to do is you go to some place where there's going to be a lot of blood

that justifies you doing this, so the admins can't get mad at you for making the floors wet, and where a lot of foot traffic will take place at the point where falling down will be the most inopportune thing. And we talked about, can we make people slip and fall at the airlock? We couldn't find any justifiable way to do that

where someone would be running full speed at an airlock or they're not trying to go out already. We decided it's the hallway intersection, section, the T-section where the hall goes to the escape shuttle, at the Medbay. And the reason is because every dead body is going or everybody who's wounded is being dragged to Med Bay. We would constantly wet the floor in front of med bay and watch as security, the head of personnel, the security runs by, because nobody just walks in the game.

If you walk, you won't slip, but everybody's got to hit run so they can get around faster. And so they're just running on, whi-w-w-w-h-h-h-h. And these are games where you can get from one end of the ship to another in only like maybe 60 seconds if you know where you're going, maybe a minute and a half. and there's 70 people play. 70 fucking people in the station that's about that size. There's so much foot traffic. Sometimes there's an antagonist around called revolutionaries

where men in black like flash are you. And now you wake up and you're brainwashed and you belong to the revolution. And the only people to the revolution can see other people. There's a red R over your head. It's so great because once you're revolutionary, so long as you do not kill or harm any other revolutionary and obey your bosses,

you can get away with killing anybody and doing anything to the station you want. So naturally, me and Crinkle set up our little, water trap, we started referring to it as the spider web. And anybody that would run by and go, like that, we'd beat them in the head with a toolbox, which is the best, like, civilian item you can get. We'd beat them in the head with a toolbox till they're dead and drag the body back into Medbay and then clean the floors right away so no one knows what's going on. We killed so many heads of staff, like the chief engineer, the research director, just all these

people running by just going through this main thoroughfare. And they're just slipping. And security can't do anything about it. The game is very, very deep, right? So you'll spawn. If you choose to be like anything, you'll have an ID badge that's on your thing, right? You can take off your coat and your ID badge will be on your coat. You can leave it on the floor and then you don't have an identity anymore. Someone can pick it up and then take on your identity kind of. Yeah, like you still have your name. Like it appears over you because you look like you.

Yeah. But if you wear a gas mask or a welding mask or something that conceals your face, you're listed as unknown. We should tell the two stories, right? There was one game where Swain got apprehended because he was going around being a griefer and he got caught. We tried doing like a breakout where on this one specific story. server you can walk up to the jail cell and look in at people on the inside of the jail cell So I was like oh wait this there's glass and there's wires if I go get like a sledgehammer or a toolbox and smash the window

Then if I get wire cuters I might be able to get to and he's like don't do it go do it and I went and caught it And I smashed the glass that took like fucking ages We're on the lookout for people walking by because if they see you're caught Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then I smashed the glass and I was like okay now I needed to take the glass out and then I knew to use the wire Coaters so I used the wire cut into the wire and just got fried by the Electricity. Yeah, because the electricity was still on. You haven't shorted that. Most of the grief in that game was, and this is how we ended up banned from all these servers,

was you just go and you grab a screwdriver, you find someone who's not wearing any eye gear because it protects them. It doesn't even let you, like, swing at them. Which is good that you can't hit them and, oh, whoops, I'm armored, so it doesn't hurt me. It doesn't even let you try in the first place, which is nice. And we would just find somebody, and you pick the eyes as their target and just stab them in the eye with the screwdriver until they're dead. I got, we went on this one roleplay server and we were trying to decide how we're going to do this.

I think I don't know what Chris did but he got zip tied and we didn't know how to break out of handcuffs yet so we'd like complain to security like help like this robot was messing with me. Please I don't have any like crimes against me I didn't do anything could you let me out?

They're like all right yeah no problem so you let him out and so in like in net speak Chris because this is a role play server this is completely off limits. He goes okay T. HX BB I'll suck you off later I'll suck ooh off L-T-R or L-A-R and then he runs off he gets an admin warning for the elite speak because he was being lewd to somebody or to the net speak because he's being lewd they threw him in jail or something like that

this complete like shitty roleplay server so we're like all right we got to get back with these guys so I had this plan I'd spawned as a medical guy I was a doctor and so I had this big plan where I was going to find these like bags of blood and like spill them all over the floor and just make a bloody mass and create a crime scene. I couldn't figure out how to do it though. It's so easy. I just didn't have a sharp instrument to like open it. Or like put it in a syringe and like sprayed on the ground.

I just couldn't figure it out because it was like our first day. So I just went in the kitchen and started throwing them at the chefs. I got arrested for contraband. I had stolen the blood from where it's supposed to go. So I got arrested for contraband and I got arrested for battery because I was throwing it at chefs. So they hold my ass right to jail. I'm like, this is fucking ridiculous. I didn't even have a chance to grief the way I wanted

And they got me because I was like They threw back at me like they're the ones who did it But the chefs all had gloves on So they didn't leave fingerprints They fucking fingerprinted the bags of blood And I wasn't wearing my latex gloves So they completely knew who it was And if they didn't get me for that

They could have got me for fucking fiber From my coat Like that's how detailed this stupid game is It's ridiculous It's super detail What time me and Swain I spawned as the chef And he spawned as the bartender So we were right nice to each other

And he had a bartender's assistant Call Lee Some girls called Leah And I can't I started shouting, I just saying like, fuck you for no reason. And then the security came, and Swain was just like, it was all her officer, she got like dragged away. Yeah, we got a lot of people, we got a lot of people,

thrown around for that. And then later we came back and she was back there, so she must have been like, you got the wrong person. There was one server where the head of personnel was being a real piece of shit. And so like, this guy deserves to die, and I'm now banned from that server, I believe.

So I, like, he was just being a numbskull. So I killed him, I axed him. I grabbed up fire axe and just took. to his arms to he died. His limbs are flying all over the place. They somehow either managed to, even though he was dead, they either cloned him, which I'm pretty sure they did. Which gives the player who's dead the option to jump back into

the body. Otherwise the clone is just dead and lifeless and it didn't work, whatever. I'm pretty sure they cloned him after, I got arrested right away by cyborgs and the head of security killed me. So I logged into one of my many accounts, which is, again, a bannable offense. You're not supposed to do this. I switch accounts. I jump back in. I find out the head of personnel is dead,

but has been, like, resurrected somehow. Like, fuck this. So I came back as a security guard. I stunned him. I handcuffed him. I dragged him to the airlocks, and I just threw us both out of his face. And I screencapped it, so I'll always remember this moment of me facing him with the warning of no-O-2 and low pressure, and we're just floating off

into space. And he goes, and there's still the chat log of him. Rogue security, he says. He's shouting rogue security on his com set so that people come in and save him. If you can't write rogue security. Let's make this the thumbnail for the F's. All right, yeah. I'll find it.

I'll send it to you immediately when I get home. I had so much fun with that. And I think I emoted something because you can't say something when you're in space. Like you can't produce sound. Like anything you say comes out as a whisper because you know, you know, in space

can't, you scream, whatever, like aliens, the tagline. So I did an emote where I, like, I kissed him is what I did. Yeah. To float off into space. He's handcuffed. Like off into space, the worst way to die.

And because if there's no body, they can't bring him back. They can, they have you actually have to have like it can't just be blood so I mean and it didn't matter because I stunned baton him handcuffed him and brought him into space there was no blood and no injury whatsoever no way for them to know and I'm pretty sure the admins like asked me why I did that and I'm like I don't actually remember what I said but I'm pretty sure I get banned from that server yeah and I'm pretty sure it was for that you're like a whole new level of love yeah it's it's very creative I

figured out how to build the singularity how to make a black hole that powers the ship in this game, not as complicated as it sounds because it's all just pieces. And learning how to make things is step one to breaking it. Like, now I know how to like open up a panel in the floor and cut this wire and put the panel back and like the ship is just not powered forever. And this is... And no one could do... Because there's like one major line goes from the power source to the batteries to the rest

of the ship at spider webs off. All you have to do is cut the one main power and no one will ever know that that's why it's not working. The game is really detailed too. So if like if you spawn as a chef or something, it'll like change the way you speak. like it'll put like Z instead of the oh yeah and like it goes

and it makes you the sweetest chef so it puts bork, bork, bork at the end of everything you say Mimes can't talk Yeah or if you get like smacked on the head with a toolbox And if you type in like Oh if you lose teeth all of your T's T's and THS come out like Sean Connery Like it spells everything like this

Yeah or if you get like knocked out And if you're trying to talk it'll be like This person tried saying like I went to the store but instead he'll be like It cuts out words and letters Yeah When you get zapped or electrocuted Does it really well.

I want to do you to stop. Yeah, it's really clever. It's a really good game. I like the idea. visually, it's hard to see, understand what's going on. I'll show you a picture. It's not going to help people. Somebody was like, I want to design a game where it's like people can truly experience a true

role playing space game where there's bad people and good people. Each job has a lot of like work to. But I don't think they realize that they created a game. Because you know what? That was kind of like the ship for me. But it was more like. Oh, the ship. I played that.

Oh my god, but it was... I will tell you how I grieved in that next. For a new player, for a person who doesn't understand the game, it's really hard to... Have you guys played the ship before? We should play the ship. It was using, like, the valve, one of their engines, I think. The idea is that it can't be... It's a multiplayer game.

It can't be played with, like, fewer than, like, two or three people, I guess. The premise of the game is that you're on a ship. You're like a random person with a random name. And somewhere on the ship, out of all the other players, you never are given an NPC, but somewhere on the ship is a target. is another player. You don't know where they are and you have to hunt them down, look for clues, kind of like follow security to try to find where they are and kill that person. They do not know who is coming for them, but they have a target of their own. If you kill someone who is not

your target, you get penalized stiffly for points. And so that's, you know, you can't just go around killing people. You can. You'll never win. You'll just be this jackass that's killing everybody. It's really scary. That's like really nerve-wracking. It is, yeah, because you come up on someone, the only one you know couldn't be your, like, someone who comes for you is your target. Every single person you see coming, you'll be like shone your pants. Now, you can't do anything in front of security or they arrest you, and then you're out of the game for like three minutes or something. So you have to plan these hits to happen in like hidden rooms and stuff.

Yeah, you follow them. It's a very cool idea. So I discovered that people, you're allowed to kill the person who's coming for you, but you don't know who they are until they come swinging. It was so easy to grab a gun and go up to somebody, like, let's say you're my target, and I aimed like at you, but away from you and go bang, and you're like, fuck, that guy's after me. You kill me.

I was not after you. I was not your target. And you just, your score just went, boom. like that. And you were fucked. And I was ruining people's games that way. That was,

like, people who were like hardcore trying to play the game and are like, like Twitch gameplay like, oh, he's after me. Bam, he's dead. And you're just penalized all your point.

I would do. I would follow people into the room and I would have blunt objects and they would be like looking, like, you know, they'd be like kind of scowing around the room and I'd just come in like swinging shit

and then they would fucking kill me because I didn't want to kill them. Yeah, if you hit them a couple times with the spanner and this is what British people call a screwdriver or Noah wrench. So you come in with your spanner and you're whacking at them,

and it doesn't kill them right away. You know, it's a very weak weapon. Exactly. You're not penalized for hurting them, and you could send people into combat with no health weapons. I used to do that and hit them

and then run out of the room and they'd fucking chase me, and then I'd go into, like, a room of four of the people and start fucking hitting them. They would be freaking out because they didn't know who it was, so they would just start hitting people.

And it would just be like, someone would have a fucking gun and then just start picking people up. Because most of the weapons in this game are like found objects, like a fire extinguisher or... Like a hit a knife and shit. Yeah, right, exactly.

Like a kitchen knife is like a good find Finding a weapon is rare You know it was like Minecraft I don't want to go back to this fucking game But in Minecraft You go up to them and you hit them And then they fucking kill you And then you're like

This guy just kill me And then they get banned I tried that in Space Station 13 And they have a log of when you did anything Yeah they've been a log for every single Tiny little action Like I did a role play server Me and my cousin not that long ago

I told you about this right Chris Where I came on as a captain You got addicted to this fucking game I did I went on to this one server And I like it was a heavy roleplay server the game had been going for like four hours and nobody picked the captain Yeah, so I joined on since the captain like I could do more damage this way It's really annoying the server. It's not the it's not set up the way I'm used to because everything is like kind of pseudo open source

So there's modification server to server that just don't match from one to the next So I find my way back to my like captain's bridge I'm like role playing with these people on my com Yeah, like oh boy captain welcome aboard like oh thank you. What's the situation? Oh, we're looking for the The chief medical officer's gone missing for you're dead. Oh, well who do we have on security? Who can get on it and I'm trying to like hack my way to the because there all these doors are like locked I eventually get to the captain's quarters I'm like I hate the server I need to quit and I'm not gonna just like quit the game what I do is I go into the captain's quarters I go into my private bed chamber I pick up a bottle of booze and a cigar I like the cigar

with matches you have to use the match on the matchbook then you use the batch that's lit on the cigar then you put it into your mouth slot this is the detail of this game I grab my bottle of booze and my flask and I go into the shower and I commit suicide and I figured this is like a just like a like a nice noir way to go and it's also shitty because by having played the captain and killed myself no one else can be captured this and so I type in I type in suicide which is the way that you normally do this this server has it's set so no you can't do that it says no you can't do that ask an admin if you'd like to

kill yourself you're like it's like a fucking hotline so I'm like all right so I'm gonna do ghost where you don't really kill yourself so much as you go like like limp and lifeless and your ghost flies out of your body and you're basically done with the round but it's the same thing as suicide it's just like you can actually go back in if the admin says it's okay so I do that and then I get a message from the admin so why'd you do that he was pissed off because like that's really against server rules on a role play server

to just join in kill yourself and leave and I committed suicide in the shower I turned it on and everything like I turned on the shower I drank the booze I smoked the cigar and I killed myself and apparently the admin had a log of me having tried to type in suicide. And so he's like, well, it looks like you try to type suicide, then type

ghost, then hit yes. So, uh, would you care to explain what happened? I said it was an accident. He goes, uh, no, it clearly wasn't. I don't, no, no, I hit yes by accident. I was just testing out the server commands, because I haven't used this one yet, talking directly to the admin. He was like, oh, like, yeah, I hit yes

by accident. Like in my server, it's on the other side. I didn't mean to. He's like, oh, all right, we'll try not to let it happen again. Probably just going to be like, look, I was a depressed captain. I was role playing as I'm a press captain. I killed myself. Exactly. On that server, well, that's why they hadn't like IP vand us yet on that server where they hauled us to jail

for you for saying I'll suck you off later, baby. And me for throwing the bags of blood. We came back in as those new characters and I found the person who ID'd me, a fellow medical person. I found the person who did this. I followed them around and I stabbed them in the eye with the screwdriver. Until they caught

me and security finally was chasing me and I remember I'm running through the halls and they finally flashed on me. Like they're locking down the AI in the ship is locking down doors like as I'm passing through them they're locking them down so they're like fuck open the door so they're like not catching me until finally they slammed the door shut in this one

hallway and like fuck all right so I go back and I stab one of the security members in the eye she can't see me so I'm like I nearly get away and the guy like stun batons me and takes me to jail yeah when you stab people in the eyes their screen goes black they're blind yeah they can't see anything for a couple seconds like it's not permanent like it's pain until it comes back it can be

it can be yeah usually after a couple stabbed so they take me to jail. And I'm like, fuck, all right. So I know I blinded that person. I stabbed them until she, like, fell down. But she didn't die, which was my goal. So I'm like, fuck, all right. So I start a new character, new account. Chris does the same thing or he's already on one. Me and Swain, we're going through like throwaway emails. Like crazy. I had like, Hulius, boolius, coelius, doelius, and like, it just kept going on. Yeah, I have a couple. I'm not going to say the names because I don't want to get banned from the servers that I'm

talking about. But it's like a bunch of the same name with like one letter change. shit like 69 on the end and so we go back we were like all right we know where she's going to be time for revenge time for revenge again like we didn't kill her so we're not done yet so I think we managed to kill her I'm not sure if we did but we maimed her we need to finish the job

we know where to find her in fucking med bay so I make another doctor I lead us both in there and we go in we grab like the circular saw while her robot is operating on her we grab the circular saw and just start going at her on the table she's like not again they catch me they kill me Chris's character, he's like, no, no, it wasn't, like, I was trying to go for him.

I was trying to stop him or, like, we talked to him out of it. And I'm fine, like, Chris, just do it. Just fucking kill her. Just fucking kill her. And I think you managed to do it before they got you and dragged you out. The best thing that ever happened was when I got, like, brought into prison and they were, like, stripping me down. And then for, like, one, like, for a microsecond, my hands were free because she was putting me in bed and take up my handcuffs. Yeah.

And for that microsecond, I, like, punched her in the head and she fell on the floor. And I was like, Swain! Come here, Swain! And you like, ran. As you just darted out of there. And knowing what I know now, I know how to get it so you can take the cuffs or whatever that you were using. Yeah. Keep hitting her on the ground so she stays there and how to handcuff her wall she's there.

And now she's your prisoner and you put her in jail. Take her ID card and I'm taking her job. See, the thing is, it's like when they're like putting you in handcuffs and shit, that there's so many like steps to doing that. It's not just like put in handcuffs. It's like take off the handcuffs. You go drag it from your inventory onto them and stuff. And there's all these different steps.

So it's really hard to remember what step to take next if you're in a rush. So it feels like, like you're really like... Yeah, until you get it down to like muscle memory, like a lot of other games. Yeah. And it's all like... There's quick keys, yeah,

but you still have to move the mouse around and accurately click on the handcuffs and you have to put it into the hand. Like, the hand controls are ridiculous. You put things into your hand and use it from that hand by like clicking on that hand. It's very weird. It's very clunky when you get used to it.

It's great. How did this game keep such a like... Did it keep a low profile for a number of years? It's part of this weird, like, shitty, like, free game service call Beyond? and it's the only good game on there. There's like other games are like Dragon Ball, like role plate.

I read about it said this game started as like a fluid simulator or something and it evolved. Yeah, right. Yeah, like that's what I heard. It was like an atmospheric or like some kind of simulation that some guy designed. And then I was, I watched a video on the history of this thing and like somebody apparently stole the code

from the source creator's computer and started repurposing it into this game and it was really really bad for many years but a couple years ago they like they finally got to a point where it was like people. with it endlessly for years. Yeah. It's like it's pretty well balanced.

Like Swain's found some things that you can do that like completely break it pretty fast, but for the most part, every job has its like, it's slow progression. Yeah, like the station is like a living organism if you play it to have fun. And there are times where I do try, like if I'm stuck doing a job and I'm not given an antagonist to roll that round, I'm like, fuck it, I'm gonna learn how to be a better antagonist by doing my job and figure out where does this passage go? How can I break into the captain's quarters without getting caught? He's learning how to hack doors and shit. And it's really not hard. It's not hard, but you have to first know that that's even the thing you can do in the first

place. And then, of course, learn how to do the steps. See, that's, I want people, I want people playing my game like they play Space Station 13. Whether, whether it's, I just, I want people to be invested in it and feel like when they jump in that their little avatar is their guy. That's what I want from our madness game that we're doing. Like, when someone's playing your game, what do you want them to have out of it? And ideally, like, when you're making the game, you want to feel that way about your own game.

That's what you know you've got it, right? This is actually something that we could talk about this, because this is something we discussed, where we want to have, like, an element of interactivity where you can also be nice and an asshole. So it's kind of, like, based on what you want to be. Like, you can be somebody, like, where when you help someone up, you can, like, press a button and let them fall and die while you're, like, helping love. You mean, like, Little Big Planet where they're about to stick that jump and you grab and let go, so it screws up their timing and they just fall in a bit. Exactly. So just, like, stuff like that. Like, you put your hand out to, like, kind of like, they're like, oh, it's like a thing.

It's like, oh, you're going to shake my hand, but really what you're doing is you're taking their energy, and then you can punch them and knock them out. So it's just stuff like, you know, where you fuck with them, and then there's just like that sort of thing. There's about, like, three video games, and the history of thousands of video games, maybe like three that could make people laugh,

so I think I want to be one of those. Yeah, exactly. Make a funny game that you can also want to, like, grieve your friends in. Basically, that's it. Tom, you made a shit ton of games. I just wanted to be lots of fun. Yeah, exactly. Fun and funny.

Some plays out there like, this is fun. A wild romp. And it is funny, it's not a game that, like, you look at as, like, emergent gameplay, but emergent gameplay is something that I like, where it's, I'm hoping it'll be a game that people can surprise each other with the crazy shit they do. I do feel like it'll be, like, a game where you discover stuff you can do. Like, there's things you can do, but you have to kind of discover it by fucking around and buying it. Or watch somebody else with a different play style.

Like, I don't know if I showed you things that you didn't know could happen or something. Exactly. And then you, like, kind of explain that. So you've got all these people, fans of Sleepy Cabin and also people who are, know that Tom Fult and Jeff Bandlin and Corey What's his face are making this game, and I don't think anybody knows a lot about it. What, like, what can people know about that? That's not like, you know. It's a bunch of genres.

It's a few genres mashed together. Yeah. It's kind of like. There's your answer. If you mix, Kingdom Hearts colors. Yeah. Some pictures move and you press button. Tankman, you get the game we're working.

It's not true. It's like, okay, so it's kind of like. Would you say it's like Second Life? It is second life. They just monitor. I mean, it's not, I'll say it's not like Castle Crashers, really, but if you like Castle Crashers, I think if you like the multiplayer aspect of Castle Crashers, there's like some aspects. What genre would you put it in?

Would you say, Bita-Mogg? There's some aspects of the game where you could just, you know, you can come with your friends and you could just, there's like kind of like this overhead style thing in the game where if you're, if you want, you don't necessarily have to sit there and go through levels. You can just go around. Let's just say our world map is pretty. in depth. It's pretty cool. I won't say anything about it. I'm deliberately not

talking about. Hey, thanks for joining us everybody. I'm pretty sure none of you know who I am. I hope maybe now you do. It was a pleasure to meet all you. Check out his madness game. But you're not single, so girls leave the... Yeah, so ladies, hands off the merchandise. If you want to plug your game.

Hands off the virtual digital merchandise. If you want to plug whatever you want. Okay, so I'm working out a game with crinkles from Newgrounds called Madness Project Nexus 2. It is a 3D PC and Mac title and try to release this on Steam at some point. We're getting pretty close to having an alpha

that we're going to have for people to play. We're working on it and go to Project Nexus2.com and get some links to see what the F we're up to. You ever consider to just call it madness? It's still a working title. It's still just working title. For the flash game, I wanted to separate it from the series and also from interactive.

It's so different. It seems like it's so... Call it Swinkles. We could just call it Project Nexus or just Madness, you know? I have considered it. You should just call it madness. Call it Swinkles. I thought about it.

I feel like swankles swankles.com. Call it swinkles. You know what I want? For every Sleepy Cabin, if you do like, do you have like an outro plug for your website, like SleepyCabin.com or something like that that you do? Sometimes. From now I want you instead of dot com be like sleepycabin.

Do like a bird sound? Yeah. Sleepy Cabin, that. Or like a creaking door. Like that's your thing. But it just really help people find your website. I really want this. I want this to be a thing.

Tom, do you want to plug anything? Griefing never. Newgrounds.com, home of the original internet. Yes, check out newgrounds.com.