Slow Baja - 4x Fred Williams Jeeps Vs Land Cruisers

Episode Date: October 3, 2026

For nearly 25 years, Fred Williams has chronicled the world of trucks—often by taking them to places they probably weren’t meant to go. He’s perhaps best known for driving a diesel Jeep called ���Tubesock” underwater across a pond, a stunt that racked up 11 million views on YouTube.Many know him as the longtime host of Dirt Every Day on MotorTrend, and earlier as the tech editor at Petersen’s 4-Wheel & Off-Road. Today, you’ll find him on his own YouTube channel, 4xFredWilliams—still building rigs, still chasing dirt, and often spotted with a cup of coffee and a dog by his side. He’s a truck guy, an off-road enthusiast, and—most importantly—a kind and thoughtful explainer on camera. Ask him, and he’ll barely admit to being a decent mechanic. His garage is home to Jeeps and Toyotas alike; Fred doesn’t discriminate. He loves adventure, and for him, the journey always matters more than the destination.“Pick something you like to do, work hard, but always follow what’s fun.”—Fred WilliamsSubscribe to Fred William’s YouTube channel here.Follow Fred Williams on Instagram here.Need Baja Bound Insurance? Get a quote here.Support the Slow Baja Podcast here.Join a Slow Baja Adventure here.

Hey, this is Michael Emery. Thanks for tuning into the Slow Baja. This podcast is powered by Tequila Fortaleza, handmade in small batches and hands down my favorite tequila. Well, if you've been listening to me for a while, you know I'm an absolute minimalist when it comes to Baja travel. But the one thing I never leave home without is a good old paper map. My favorite is the beautiful, and I mean beautiful, Baja Road and Recreation Atlas by benchmark maps. It's an oversized 72-page book jam-packed with details, and now you can get it from me at slowbaha.com. That's right.

You can get it in the Slow Baja shop, and in fact, you better get two, one for your trip planning at home and one for your Baja rig. And if you love maps and you can't get enough of them like me, let me tell you about. two sites I am absolutely obsessed with. Eastview MapLink and Longitude Maps.com, whatever you're looking for in Maps, it's there. From the entire benchmark collection to Baja Wall Maps to custom maps, you'll find it all at longitudemaps.com or EVmaplink.com. You know I've long said it, ask your doctor if Baja's right for you. Well, if you've been hankering to get down to slow Baja with me, You got to check out the Adventures tab at slowbaha.com. All my trips are there from my famed fall vintage extravaganza to my winter and summer expeditions,

which are open to trucks of any age. You know, on a Slow Baja expedition, your meals are always included, which really does take the sting out of camping. And when we get off the trail, let me tell you, we have the happiest of happy hours. If good dirt roads, private campsites, Rant stays, great food, and great people sounds like you're kind of fun, well, you've got to check out the Adventures tab

at slowbaha.com. But don't delay. These trips are small, they're highly immersive, and they will sell out. And folks, just so you know, I am always here for you for your Baja trip planning questions.

One question, 100 questions. The easy way to get me is Slowbaha.com slash contact. And if you'd like to go to Baja and you don't want to go by yourself, You don't have a vintage vehicle. My winter trip doesn't work out for you. I am happy to talk to you about organizing and leading a private guided tour.

I've done it. I've loved it. The pictures are over there at slowbaha.com slash adventures. And you can check them out. And if you've got some questions, let's talk. From the Shieldman recording booth at Slow Baja Studios. Thanks for tuning in to today's Slow Baja podcast. My heaping dose of gratitude goes out to Scott Tate.

fantastic dad Lee Tate. You know, I met Scott on the Baja XL in 2023, part of the rescue team that got Dom Mahoney rescued. We did a podcast about that, Dom and Chris on the Baja XL. And it was a, that was a really tense day and Scott was the guy who brought the goods and rescued Dom. Great, great, great guy. And we connected, I'd say, month ago, maybe he reached out to me about some Baja trip planning stuff, you know, got a couple of things, a couple of messages back and forth. You ordered a couple of things in the slow Baja shop. And I'm driving in Salt Lake City for Cruiser Fest and then off to Colorado to see Slee off

road. And I had a little problem with the new exhaust gas temp gauge in the sensor. and the shop that had done that work directed me to cruiser and company. So who's the tech at cruiser and company working on my truck? Well, it was Scott Tate. It is a small, small, small world, which is why you should always be nice, folks. It should always be nice. It was great to see Scott ended up out to dinner with he and his dad. His dad, it was on my winter trip last year.

Really a fabulous, fabulous guy. Can't say enough about how wonderful Scott. and Lee Tate are. Anyways, well, today's show is with another wonderful fellow for by Fred Williams. People love this guy. I kept running into Fred at Overland Expos and had a chance to talk here, had a chance to talk there, and found out he was in Pasoobloos and I was going to Pasobleau. So we sat down and had a conversation and it's not really about Baja. It's not really about Slow. It's about what a damn interesting life he is leading and the work he is doing. And I have an awful lot of respect for the work and the effort that Fred puts forth.

He's a damn nice fellow. And without further ado, it's for by Fred Williams. Today on Slow Baja. Hey, Fred. Hello. Thanks for the coffee. Oh, choose. Really nice to see you.

Yeah. Thanks for making some time for Slow Baja. Sure. Our paths have been crossing and found out what a nice guy you are. How much people like you. I don't know about all that. And we're here in Paso in your shop. We've got a land cruiser right here, which is something that's been capturing a little bit too much of my time lately. I'm on the edge of my seat. What are you doing with this thing? I'm probably more of a Jeep guy. I'm definitely more of a Jeep guy, but I like Toyotas. I appreciate Toyotas, and now I own four Toyotas.

I probably own three times that many Jeeps, but this land cruiser in 1989, FJ62, I was contacted. Somebody was like, hey, there's a land cruiser in this barn. that might have a blown head gasket and are you interested in it? And I was like, yeah, I'll go look at it. And when I was going to look at it, I was like, I don't want a gray one. I want one that has some color.

Oh, nice. And then I got there and it was red, but it was also covered in owl poop. The owl, this barn, this is the iconic barn find. This truck was sitting in the barn, hood open, completely covered. Oh, my start. Hang on for a second. So a guy just walked away from it. He's like, there's something wrong with this thing. He left the hood open. Well, they didn't even close. They thought it had a blunt head gasket. Right. But I'm hanging up on two things. Okay. It's in a barn. Yeah. And he's aware that there are raptors and owls and stuff. It was the best thing for it. Okay. You don't,

you wouldn't think that, but. And he didn't have a car cover or cardboard. Well, even better, because The truck was out open for eight years. No mice. There were no mice. Because the owls would eat the mice. So it was filthy on the outside. And I paid an exorbitant amount of money three times to try to get it clean. But the interior was dusty but not chewed up.

There was no mice. There's no mouse poop inside at all. Amazing. Amazing. So if you had to choose, I would choose. a barn full of owls versus a barn full of mice. Yeah, that's a car person. Hey, that's Fred Williams.

We've got some tips on buying cars out of barns today. Yeah, I've bought a lot of used vehicles in my time. Probably more used vehicles than new vehicles, but definitely more used vehicles. Do you have a ballpark on that? How many cars I've owned? Yeah. 50 to 100. I don't know.

I don't know that it's a huge number. I'm not like a... But from 14 to now, that's, you know, you're a regular offender. I mean, I do, I have kind of made a lot of my life around vehicles, which there's definitely days where I would sell them all, let them all go away and just start with something new. But what would you drive? If you could only have one car.

So this is the whole thing. You know, I was early at Bring a Trailer, you know, five people sitting around the office watching auctions close. day after day after day after day I was older than you know my co-workers I could have been their fathers old that old and none of them could believe that I only had one car at my advanced age one vintage car but I had a very old house in San Francisco that had a very skinny garage made for a model T made for a model T two of them parked you know one behind the other and I had kids in private school. So that's a new car new Porsche tuition, you know, in tuitions every year.

Yeah. So that I had a 71 land cruiser, FJ 40 in my garage that I could take the kids out to ice cream or on a good day could take somebody to Little League or crew practice or lacrosse or whatever. And then I lucked into a Dotson roadster and then I looked into a Dotson 510. And, you know, now I had two old things in the garage plus a Vespa plus a and then it becomes. Only dad stuff in the garage. And then when kids go to high school, you need a parking strategy because it's super busy neighborhood. And and, and so I like one. Now I have three.

So I have them. And then 71 Land Cruiser, the 1990 European import, which is in the shop right now, which probably needs an engine overhaul. And then I have a 97 F350 crew cab that I bought for my dad and inherited back from him recently. and it has an 84 four-wheel pop-up camper on it. And it's a little bit of an albatross, but, you know, there's some unfinished business there. It needs some Baja time. And so I have a plethora of vehicles right now,

three of them, which I store in San Diego. I parcel them out to friends, and I live in Chicago. Enough about me. No, I think that every, I tell all my, my car friends that spend the most money on your tow rig and leave it alone. Don't put a... You hear me laughing. Don't turn the engine up.

Don't lift it. Don't put big tires and lights and lockers and rock sliders and don't put any of that stuff on it. Just buy a tow rig that leave it alone. He's fine. He went back there. I was just going to say, where did... I watched that door like a hawk. We're on Frank Watch here.

He's around here somewhere. All right. Now, who's calling me? But yeah, I would say if you were going to buy, if you're getting into cars, if you're going to have one, that's fine. But if you're going to have more than one, buy a nice tow rig, leave it alone. Because at the end of the day, at the end of the weekend, whether you're a race car person or motorcycle person or off-roader. It's so nice on Sunday mid-morning when your toy is broken to get in

your truck, put it on the trailer, put it in the back, whatever it is, and just set cruise control and turn on the air conditioning and go home. Still be able to get to work on Monday. Words to live by. I don't do this. I don't know that like my tow rig has a winch bumper and lights and the lift and big tires, But knowing what I know now, I would say don't. Oh, yeah, he's been under, he's got complex on the back. Oh, good, good, good. He's fine. Fred, how did a guy who grew up on a farm in Pennsylvania,

went to college and studied art, how did cars take over your life? You said you're a Jeep guy who's owned some Toyotas. What propelled you? I'm always curious. How do people find their thing? Well, I, my older brothers would get the off-road magazines. This was pre-internet, and I would read the off-road magazines. And then as I got older, I would get the off-road magazines, and I would buy the, there were five off-road magazines at the time, and I would get every single one of them, and I'd read all of them in about a week and a half, and then I'd have,

two and a half weeks waiting for the next. Jonzing. Yeah. And then I'd also buy all of the auto traders to kind of see what was for sale. And I remember my dad telling me once. He was like, if you stopped buying all that, you could actually buy a truck. Which the funny part is eventually I was running those magazines. Yeah.

I think there's something in men, primarily men's brains that they need to, like, I needed to see what was for sale in a classified in a news. paper. When the auto trader came out, I needed to like go through all those things. I don't know what. It's the same dopamine that we get with these things when we're scrolling Instagram or Facebook Marketplace or like when Instagram and Facebook have nothing but ads, you go to the marketplace because you know that that stuff is real. Isn't that interesting? I can't I can't get off Marketplace now and they know me so well. Right. Why do I need to see? AMC Eagles. Because it's the dopamine.

It's the shot. And botchy balls. Yeah. It's the thing in your mind that's like, oh. Vintage racing jackets. What is new out there? What's the new thing? Like we're all about seeing something new because that gives us that little shot of sweetness

in our mind. And half the time, it's like buying it, finding it, buying it, all of that stuff makes us feel great. Then it's in the shop and you're like, whatever. have I done. Right. And a lot of people... What have I done? Yeah. I mean, a lot of people live off of the working on it, the wrenching on it, and a lot of people get themselves into that. And then they're like, oh, no, I don't, I don't like this. I don't like getting dirty or busting my knuckles. So there's an interesting dichotomy that you just touched on. I've seen it a lot

where people spend all the time and get all of their pleasure from returning something to another state. So they found it in one state and they're restoring it, not geographic states, states of mind, states of condition. They're restoring it or modifying it or whatever. And they go through all of that. And then there's no pleasure or there's too much anxiety wrapped up in the driving it or the brain changes, channels and says, oh, I want that thing now. I don't, I don't really care if people don't drive their trucks or their cars. That doesn't, I mean, everybody's into different stuff.

Right. If you only enjoy working on it, then enjoy working on it. Don't feel like, like, and if somebody else is like, you don't even, you don't even wheel that thing. You're like, screw you. I'm not, like, I'll do what I want to do. Yeah. Like, if you're not.

like, why did you build that $250,000 or $500,000 pre-runner and you won't take it to Baja? That's their prerogative. Like when people are like, oh, I can't believe you would do that to that car. Guess what? It's their car. They can do whatever they want to do it. And it's not your, like, yeah, you can be like, but I'm like, everybody's into what they're into. And you don't, like if you're, if you like being in the.

garage by yourself with your music on and your cold beer and your project vehicle. I just enjoy it. Don't feel like and if you like because there's a lot of other people out there that they don't know how to turn a wrench, but they love to get in their truck and go beat it up and out in the dirt. Good for them too. Yeah. I do not know how to turn a wrench.

Which is fine. I know how to pour tequila for somebody who knows how to turn a wrench. Right. And I think you just like there's a guy I met once. in I think South Dakota. And he was having a rock crawler built by some friends of mine. And he said, I want a pizza shop. I know how to make pizza.

If I want a rock crawler, I just have to make enough pizza that I can make enough money that I can pay these guys to build my rock crawler. Yeah. It's like, I don't have to know how to do it. And a lot of people get caught up in, oh, I don't know how to do it or I don't know this. It's like, do what you know how to do, make some money. Like, there's a lot of guys out there that would love your money to build you something cool. I mean, it's always a crap shoot if you're going to find somebody that's actually talented enough or will take the care enough.

The hard part is when you know enough that you want it done your way, but you don't know enough about how to actually do it. And you have to deal with personalities, like whether it's a home remodel or a car restoration and people get distracted and things spiral out of control. and you open the hood and you find another problem that needs to be addressed before you can do the thing you wanted to do. Right. And then puts it all together and it doesn't work. Yeah. And then it has to come apart again. Oh, yeah.

Somebody has to pay for that. Yeah. So art school or art major in school and then you get out into a Jeep and then one thing. Well, the only reason I liked art, the only reason I ended up as an art major was because it was the classes that I could do stuff with my hands. hands. And nowadays, like in hindsight, I should have went to a trade school or technical school. But I went to a liberal arts college because all of my brothers went to college. It was a time when everybody had to go to college. If you weren't going to college, you were just wasting your life, which I think it's, I think luckily props to Mike Rowe, we have learned that you don't

need to go to college. You need to follow what you're interested in and figure out how to make money doing it. And don't feel like you have to be striving for a white-collar job because there's, I know guys, I know a guy. I sold a truck to a guy from West Virginia that owns a demolition business. He's got a fleet of trucks, like excavators that cost more than people's houses. Super nice guy. I mean, he inherited the business, but he also took it to the next level. Right.

And I don't think, like, and I look at that, I'm like, man, that is awesome. That guy is making a living by tearing down. down buildings. And I'm sure there's more to it. It's not like, like, I look at it. I'm like, oh, man, you get an excavator and you just go smash stuff and then somebody hauls it away and you're like, you just cash a giant check. I'm sure there's way more to it than that. But I was like, that is a cool job. Yeah. And somebody else is like, what he didn't, I don't know. I don't know if he went to college or not. But I'm like, it doesn't matter. The guy's doing well enough to buy a truck from you. He has multiple cool vehicles. He has the time.

and the wherewithal to like get on a plane and go do go for adventures. Super nice guy. And so I think, but that's the type of thing that I say to people. Like, you can go to school and be an engineer, but you're going to end up being a tool for the company that owns the highest engineers. Right. You can go to technical school and learn how to be an electrician or a plumber. but keep an eye on the boss and figure out how to be the boss so that someday you can have your own electrical

company, your own engineering company, your own plumbing company. And kids don't, they don't care about business. They're like, ah, I don't care about it. Well, you got to care a little bit because that's, at a certain point, your knees will hurt from crawling around underneath sinks, your back will hurt from shoveling. They should have bought a few duplexes a lot. along the way and fixed them up. Yeah.

Buy some duplexes, Airbnb, that stuff. Are we sitting in your 401K here, Fred? No, I have a 401k, but this is, I don't know what all this stuff is. Everybody's, it's cool to have a whole bunch of toys, but they own you. So I think it comes back to like,

what is the perfect vehicle. And also, like, I'm in a different arena. that like I have to have stuff to work on because my job is working on stuff and showing people what I'm working on. It's like the luckiest job ever. But I also end up with that needs a fuel pump. That needs the engine swap finished. This needs the air lockers installed. That doesn't run right.

So we got to figure that out. This needs new body armor. So like there's you're just constantly. And you don't need all of these cars to. like have a YouTube channel and make content, videos, whatever. But I think because of all the years that I've done this, I have followers that are interested in different types of vehicles. Toyota guy, Land Cruiser guy, Jeep guy, old Jeep guy.

Like, having the variety allows me to kind of hop around and make a video for each person. they might this guy is just interested in how to rebuild a winch this person wants to see the camper shell on my 67 gmc like that's a cool camper shell by the way yeah it turned out it's a really cool one it's a cool camper shell so i just um it's a real farm truck i get to play with lots of different cars and i try to i own a bunch of cars because i bounce around the other's birds in there i was just wondering what frank was watching there heard a little thing or you do have a little whiteboard I was just wondering, do you have a whiteboard in your mind or do you have a whiteboard that keeps track of all this stuff? I filled out that whiteboard probably 10 months ago and I have no idea. Haven't added, haven't erased, haven't put a checkmark next to anything. That whiteboard is useless to me.

Perfect. I don't have one either. Yeah. My whiteboard is a fuzzy image in my head about what the hell I'm supposed to be doing today. Yeah, I try to, I've started trying to. I've started trying to, because I have so many vehicles, I try to write down like a to-do list for each one and like leave it in that vehicle. So if I get away from it and then I come back, I'm like, oh, yeah, this one needs the oil change or the left rear tires got a wobble or finish wiring up those lights that we installed that didn't get done. I imagine you've bought a car in your life from a guy who had the little notebook in the glove box that had every fill up, every, every, his mileage worked out, his oil change, his service.

That's a beautiful thing that I think has probably gone away now with digital tools, but the guy who wrote down everything. Well, so I have two stories on that. One, I bought a wagon ear for. from a friend of mine and his dad had bought it originally. And I think his dad was a doctor. And I got, I was going through the glove box and I found the owner's manual. And he had highlighted things and like underlined things. Like he had sat down, read it and like was like,

ooh, I need to remember this and would like. And it was stuff like how to put it into four-wheel drive. Like things that I was like, like most people never even read their owner's manual, much less like this guy took notes. I bought my second car from a little old lady. He was a Dotson 510. And she had not only the owner's manual that was in the glove box in its original vinyl case, but she had the shop manual that she had covered the outside of the shop manual in clear packing tape to reinforce it,

but clear. And then highlighted inside. What she? She needed to know. Yeah. I don't know if she ever worked on the thing. It only had 26,000 miles on it when I bought it in 1983, but she had everything, you know, highlighted with a ruler.

Not highlighted, but underlined in red with a ruler. Oh, yeah. And I didn't sell the, the, um, that shop manual when I sold the car. I sold the car to a high school buddy when I was in college. And I'm sure that, that manual is in my dad's garage and I'm going to find it in the next couple of months as we, have to empty all of his trash and treasure out of the garage. So I bought my first Jeep and I got a little notebook and I would write down the mileage, how much gas I put in it, how much money I spent on the gas.

And I did that for years, two or three years. And then one day I asked my dad, I said, why am I doing this? And he was like, what do you mean? I said, why am I writing down the mileage? Why am I writing down this fuel? He was like, I don't know. I was like, well, my grandparents did that. Exactly.

I was like, why did they do it? And he was like, I don't know. And so that day I stopped. It freed your mind? Well, I was just like, there is a good reason why. The theory is that you keep track of your mileage. And if your mileage plummets or change. significantly, you're like, oh, I should check something.

It's an early indicator. Yeah. It's your canary. But I never did that. I wasn't, I don't even think I was figuring out mileage, like miles per gallon. I think I was just writing down this mileage, this much gas, this, and the waggonier, I do it in that because the fuel gauge doesn't work. And I'm just like, if I go 100 miles, I should probably put, probably put gas in it.

And 10 miles of the gallon, yes, you should. The disappointing part is, that I will get in it and I'll be like, wow, I haven't put gas in this thing in like nine months, 10 months a year. I'm like, I don't drive this very much, which brings up like, how long do you keep a car that you're not driving? And should you sell it off? Well, we're going to get right back to that cliffhanger after a moment. We'll take a break here to hear from Baja Bound. We'll be right back with four by Fred Williams talking about.

about how long you should hold on to a truck if you're not driving it. Yeah. Here it's Little Baja, we can't wait to drive our old land cruiser south of the border. When we go, we'll be going with Baja Bound Insurance. Their website's fast and easy to use. Check them out at bahaabound.com. That's Bajabound.com, serving Mexico travelers since 1994. Let me tell you about my new favorite sweater.

This is called the Purley's Hugger, and it's from Perley's Possom Sox. It's 20% possum fur, 70% marino wool, and 10% silk. Now you say a possum fur sweater? Yeah. Well, in New Zealand, possums are invasive species, and they figured out an amazing use for their fur. They mix it with marino wool, a little bit of silk, and you get this sweater, which feels like cashmere, wears like iron. It's the perfect thing for a foggy day like today in San Francisco or driving your old land cruiser with no windows or maybe you're on an ADV bike.

It's underneath your jacket. It's got a high collar. I love it. You can wear this thing out to dinner. You can wear this thing all day on your motorcycle. Doesn't smell, doesn't pill, anti-microbial. Get yours at Pearley's Possum fur sweaters, Slow Baja approved. Link in the show notes. A big thanks to those of you who've contributed to our Baja baseball project. You know, we launched our gear deliveries on my winter expedition. Michael and Matthew from Barbers for Baja. We're along for the ride and we got to deliver that critically needed baseball gear up and down the peninsula. It was really, truly amazing. All right, well, please help us continue this vital work. Make your tax deductible donation at the Barbers for Baja. Click barbers for Baja.com.

click the Baseball in Baja link, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I really do. It is so amazingly gratifying to be able to give these kids this chance to keep playing this sport. Keep them on the field, keep them out of trouble. Please check it out. Baseball in Baja link at barbers for Baja.org. Thank you. I want to tell you about these new Rocky Talky radios that I absolutely love.

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I happen to upgrade to the accessory whip antenna for my radio and for my sweeps radio, the Donovan Brothers. We were never out of contact. can't say it strongly enough. Rocky, talky radios, rocky talkie.com. Check them out.

Slow Baja approved. I'm on the edge of my seat. We're back with Fred Williams talking about how long he's going to hold on to that beautiful wagoner in the back that could be the next supply rig for Slow Baja.

All I need is one hand-painted cactus on each side. On the doors? Mm-hmm. And white. That's a one-color job. Don't even fill it in because it's already green.

What year is that wagon here that I'm lusting after? It's a 71. It's a beauty. That's one of the few vehicles that I own that if I take it downtown. You have to talk to people. Well, women are more interested in it. Most of the stuff I have is like... Dude Ranch.

Rock crawler or farm truck or... Like, they're just big and ugly and big tires and beat up. And that one's still pretty. and it's on small tires. But I, but yeah, if I, if I take that for coffee runs, it, um, gains a lot of attraction. And this land cruiser, I think will be the same way. Yeah. Um, I posted it up the other day.

I was like, which wagon do people like more? And I should have posted up like specifically asking women to, except there's probably like four women that follow me and like, 200,000 guys. But I think that's the interesting thing would be like, would women be more attracted to the land cruiser or the wagoneer? Because they both have a very similar, like they're both, they have a little bit of chrome, they're a nice color, they're a wagon. They're both really approachable too.

Yeah, and neither of them are on big tires. Yeah. Like, this is on 33's and I'm not going any bigger and everybody's like, 303s. Come on, man. You can buy a car from the dealer now on 35s or 37s. I'm like, I don't know. It's fine.

I ran my FJ 40 for a decade on 30s. Yeah. And a stock 50-year-old suspension. And people say, what are you doing? And I said, I'm just driving the thing the way it was designed until it can't go someplace. Yeah. Or it breaks or I need to replace something, which was a bad idea. I should have just left 30 with the stock suspension in the bench seat and the whole thing.

Yeah. Yeah. We like changing stuff, though. Yeah. And the shield man seats are what allows me to drive that thing, actually, to actually be able to get in it like yesterday drive from San Diego through L.A. traffic with a non-synchronized transmission to beautiful Pasooblis and get out and say, oh, I still feel like a human. Yeah. I have this Jeep that I bought out of a junkyard and I drove it across America. And it's on the original seats. And I remember thinking like, this is going to be a horrendous trip.

And it was, I drove across America in like July or August, no top. And it was 1973, CJ5. And like a few days before the trip, a week before the trip, my back really hurt. And a day into the trip, my back felt fine. Because your mind was working on a whole bunch of other things that couldn't feel the pain. No. That's what happens to people in combat. No, it was because.

I was on the road. It was hot. Like, you just kind of settle in. Like, I'm not saying that your fancy seats in your FJ40 aren't great, but I am saying that, like, if you really just kind of lean into the weather and the heat and the cold, and, like, you can be comfortable in just about anything. I see. We're pretty resilient.

creatures. Well, getting less resilient every day if you're asking me. Yeah, but I think that's because you're, um, like you're allowing things to prop you up. Like the more movement you have, the more discomfort you have, the more you kind of acclimate. And then you're like, huh, it doesn't hurt that bad. Like people, like when their backs hurt, it's like you got to, you got to move. You can't sit still. Right. Like this whole, like, this whole. idea of like, oh, you're injured, you should just sit and recuperate. I'm like, I don't think that's as true as we. No, you need to move. Yeah. You need to move. What other words of wisdom do you have, Fred, we've been talking for, I don't know how long now. And I don't think we've talked

much about your vehicle maladies, why you have all these jeeps. You know, I start every slow Baja trip And our pre-trip departure safety talk about the first one I did was right before the election. And so it's October and pretty high political tension in the United States. And I said, you know, we're a divided nation. We're all here on vacation. We're not going to talk about politics because this whole Jeep versus Land Cruiser thing needs to stop. And people kind of get the analogy. I don't think we're a divided nation.

I think you're at an age where you notice things. And you, to you, this is the most divided that country's ever been. That's probably true. But in reality, there was a time this country was so divided. They were shooting at each other. Yeah, that's true. And I think that, I think we have this,

we have this feeling that it's so important, Because it's, we're, so when you're a kid, what do you care about? Snacks, toys, playing. You don't care about politics. You don't care about the news. You barely even care about the weather. You just snacks, toys, play in. And then as you get older, you like start learning about stuff around you.

And some people learn that in high school and college. They get very political. Other people don't learn it until they're older. And then at a certain point, you're like, my gosh, those people don't like what I like. Like, we're so divided. Like, and it's like, and then as you get older still, I think you get to a point where hopefully you realize, huh, it's not as important as I thought it was. And so we all have this feeling that like, right now is so important to the history of our country, our planet, or whatever, because

well, that's just because right now it's important to you. You are at an age where you recognize that. But the earth is like this. And you're just like this. You come up and you see and then you come back down and you're like, huh. And then hopefully by the time you're back down here, you're like, I'm old and I'm happy. And that stuff doesn't matter. Like what matters when I'm old and happy?

Did I get out of bed? Snacks. Did I have coffee? Did I poop? Yeah. Good day. And so I think that we like there's so many people that like bring up politics. World like yeah, there's lots of terrible stuff that's happening in the world.

It's not new. Not any newer than it was 100,000 years ago. Like there's always been terrible stuff happening. Turn off the news. Yeah. Like turn off your television. Like it's. it's harsh, but I think there's a lot of people that, like, they think that stuff is more important than it really is.

Well, my father-in-law is a nice man from North Dakota, an architect, very soft-spoken fellow. And he said one day, you know, he turned off the news and life's pretty good around here. And he was right. And it's hard because I had a friend that was like, there was a bunch of floods in Hawaii. I didn't know. So they don't watch the news. Right. She was like, you don't, you don't even know what's going on in the world.

I was like, nope. Well, I don't. But if you tell me, then I'll look into it. Like if there's something, but it's like, am I putting my head in the sand? Maybe. Well, you're putting your head under the hood of a car and doing some doing work every day. Right. And that's what's right in front of you.

And I think that's what's important. And I think the interesting thing, again, jeeps and land cruisers, can go down the same trail and have a beer after that trail and enjoy each other's company. And I think that's what I've really enjoyed with my trips is they're not Mark specific. So you've got a Land Rover guy over here. You've got a Jeep guy who's driving a forward control. And you've got, you know, some land cruisers because I drive land cruisers. And then there's a guy with an old Bronco. And you kind of realize like, you know what?

We're all just dudes having fun out in the dirt, drinking a cold beer in the afternoon. I have a stock flat fender and I have a modified flat fender. And if I'm around my modified flat fender buddies, I just tell them how terrible their modified flatfenders are and how great my stock one is. If I'm around my Toyota friends, I'll tell them how great a Jeep is. I was in Moab for cruise Moab driving my Toyota and my buddy was trying to get up an obstacle and wasn't getting up it. And I just yelled out the window,

You should have bought a Jeep. Like, I don't, like, nothing's sacred. Right. The most sacred, beautiful truck, that's junk. That's junk. That thing probably has more money and time in it than it's junk. Like, none of it's that important. Nothing we are doing in any of this is important.

Like, farmers, important. Yeah. Teachers, important. Dr. Dr. Probably doctors. Doctors. I like your theory.

But the problem of doctors is like, you know, if you can get a doctor that will really fix you anymore or if they're just trying to sell you something. So I really think that like teachers are saints and farmers are the only people that are going to feed you. And hopefully doctors will actually fix you and not just prescribe something. Well, Fred, let's get on to, you're probably getting a lot more. No, listen, there's there's one, it's a one person editorial board at Slow Baja. I only talk to people that I'm interested in.

Okay. And I don't have any agenda about why we're talking. We were supposed to be talking about ostensibly slow or Baja are the two things that are in the show notes. Oh, yeah. Let me tell you about my trips to Baja. One, I went and I raced with Donahoe Racing. There was a guy named Craig Donahoe that had a suspension company. And he ended up getting into some trouble and eventually lost the company. But I think my first trip to Baja, I got to ride in a Toyota Tacoma that we raced in a thousand.

I went down once with Volkswagen when they were racing a tour egg. They had some Torreg trophy trucks. I went down with BFG and got to race in the wide open Baja cars. Perks of being an influencer. No, this was. How long ago was that? This was when I worked for a magazine. Okay.

Perks of being employed in the magazine business. Actually, you know what? I guess a magazine is the original influencers. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, with more filters and, you know, a smaller channel to getting stuff out. Well, we, like, we were the channel. You were the channel.

There was no, like, if anything, you have a smaller channel nowadays. even though it's an enormous audience, it's an even bigger. There's even more channels. There's thousands of channels, millions of channels. Everybody's a channel. You're a channel. Frank's probably got a channel. Not yet, but he should.

Yeah. The docks and down the hall from us has 40,000 followers. So Frank should definitely, he's better looking than Randy, but literally the docs and down the hall from us has a channel. Yeah. And so every, but like when I was at a magazine, there were five magazines that covered trucks and off road. So like we, and I remember when like the websites kind of came on board like forums. And that was like, oh, wow. This is a, this is a challenge to the like the publishing world.

And I don't even know if the publishing world realized it. Yeah. I also remember I was at a. a car event. And I remember telling these journalists like, well, print media is going to die. And they were appalled that I would say that. They were like, no way. People always want this. I was like, you said, one day, I'm going to be driving a Jeep underwater. You won't believe it, but millions of people are going to watch me. And you won't see it in the pages of a magazine. Yeah. Well, let's get on to that. You got out of the magazine or while you were in the magazine.

or while you're in the magazine, you started making a show. I was a four-wheel and off-road magazine. And there'll be, that'll be in the show notes, folks, what magazines were. Yeah. And then we had, it was part of like the whole Motor Trend family. And Motor Trend had a YouTube channel that they would do car reviews on. Like new car reviews. Like what's in the magazine, but people talking into a camera.

Right. And most of it was pretty dry. Pretty dry. Yeah, pretty dry. And then David Freiberger and Mike Finnegan started roadkill. Genius. Yeah. And the third roadkill, they came to an event that I put on at 4-1 Off Road Magazine.

It was called Cheap Truck Challenge. So they came and they brought a truck and filmed the whole event. And I had a suburban, and I think Rick Payway had a, Toyota or something, and then they had like a Bronco. And that was there, like they filmed that whole show. And I was like, and I remember leaving there and I went back. And I was like, they need an off-road show. So I suggested to management, hey, you guys have this roadkill show.

You need an off-road show. Like off-roading more dynamic than cars. cars fast, forward and backwards, side to side. Off-roading has a third dimension. We go up and over things. Up down. And we have dust, we have sand, we have mud, we have all this stuff happening around. Cars can go rolling down a hill.

Right. Where cars, they do drifting, they do drag racing, but this doesn't have that third dimension. And I didn't want to write, I didn't want to have a TV show. I just was like, you guys should do this. This is my good idea that I'm bringing you. Right. Somebody do this. Six months later, they called me in and were like, we want you to do this.

And I was like, I don't, I don't have the time to do this. They were like, no, you should do it. And I was like, well, I can probably do one every couple months. And they were like, we need one every two weeks. And I said, well, I still have. my magazine job. And they were like, yep, you have to do that too. And I was like, well, I get paid for, they were like, nope, you do the magazine job and this. And so I did. I started a TV show. The answer is yes. Yeah. Well, the answer wasn't allowed to be anything, but yes. Here's my bad

idea. Now I have to live with it. Right. And all of my friends would come to say that I saw the writing on the wall and I. You're genius. But I wasn't. I was like, I just had. I just have. an idea that I wanted somebody else to do and it was dropped in my lap and I had to go do it. And I had done a little bit of video stuff because we would do these ultimate venture trips and they would interview me, but I was never like, I want to go have a TV show. So talk about the evolution of that, the evolution of you going from, I'm reporting on other people doing other things. Sometimes I'm talking about myself doing those things, but this really became about you doing these things and you had to bring people in to

your world. Yeah, I think that started actually in print because I would, it wasn't just how does the suspension go on the truck or how does, how did this person build their truck? like magazines would have three assets. They would have installs. They would have feature trucks and they would have event coverage. And I kind of brought in this voice where it wasn't the universal we.

Magazines used to always be like, we found this, we found that. And I was like, I'm not talking for everybody. I'm just talking for me. So I started writing first person. And nobody stopped me. And I don't know why they didn't stop me because I didn't know, like, I was nobody. I was just like the feature.

I was a kid, but I was like, I'm just going to write stuff in first person. And I'm going to say, I did it this way. And especially if it was my project, if it was my clampy truck or my Jeep, I would write in first person. And then I also started bringing in my own boss as a character, Payway. Payway is a character. He is a character. Yeah. And but he is a character that people didn't know.

And when I was writing about him, I was like reiterating. I was introducing him to the reader. And like, this guy does this stuff. And it's really cool. And you should know about it. And he wears these flip-flops and he's into old jeeps. and like all of the stuff, like there was a little bit of that there. And I honestly probably got a lot of that from Fryberger,

because Freiberger would write these stories. And he wasn't scared to write in first person and write about, we're doing this adventure. And it was because I think people wanted more. They didn't want to just read about something somebody did. They wanted to interact with the character. That's like the whole thing about naming vehicles. It's like naming your truck is kind of dumb.

But if you have, but if you're writing about that vehicle and it becomes a character, then people follow along. And it's like, so now, like, I don't like people are like, I just bought this new truck. What should I name it? I'm like, it doesn't need a name. Right. But if you want to refer to it to other people, yeah, give it a name. Well, there's a name on the side of that truck right there that I've had to live with now since I had it painted on there. Yeah.

It's Slow Baja. I'm Slow Baja, and it's become this character. Yeah. Slow Baja. Yeah, I get it. What do you think you've learned? And so how many years has this been now, Fred, since you took on motor trend and then you were a motor trend on demand and then you're four by four every day, dirt every day? Excuse me, I had that wrong, your dirt every day.

Tell me, like, what have you learned in standing in front of a camera and showing somebody how to punch in a freeze plug that's the wrong freaking size? I mean, I think, I guess I didn't. You're not a doctor. You're not a doctor. You're a little bit of a teacher, though. That's what I keep coming back to. You are a teacher. I always said that I was a translator.

I would go to a shop and I would work with a mechanic or I'd go to a company. I'd work with the engineer, and then I'd have to turn that into a message that my mom could read and understand. So I would translate shop talk, engineer talk, marketing talk, like whatever the company was trying to sell. Like, because we weren't, I mean, we were a journalist, but we were in reality. We were just like telling people about how to build their trucks and go do fun stuff. Yeah, go do fun stuff. Find the fun. Yeah.

And I also, like I learned a couple things. One, if you just follow what's fun, you can make a living out of it. You might get madly successful or you might just scrape by, but you can get by if you just follow what you love. But you really got to, you got to just stick with it and be all in. Because I think the biggest lesson that answered that question was that other people will enjoy what you enjoy if you explain to them why you

enjoy it. Like if you can say, I love going to Baja, people are like, well, why? It's slower. It's dirtier. It's more it's desolation on our doorstep. Yeah, it's more real. It's more like raw.

If you can, can explain that, then people will be like, oh, maybe I want to experience that. And then you all of a sudden have somebody that you can take along. And then the next thing, you know, you have a customer that I'll be like, that sounds really cool. I'll pay you to show me that. Like, I'll pay you to experience that. No, no, let me pay you. That's usually how. Well, that's usually how it works with me. But I mean, it becomes something where, um, Like, if you follow what you really enjoy and you can explain to people why you really enjoy it, then, because I used to think, nobody really likes what I like. I felt like it had such this weird taste that nobody else out there would like it.

Whatever it is, whatever your clothing style, hobbies, art, food, whatever the thing is, I think you just have to be like, well, that's what I like. That's what I like, and I'm going to try and figure out how to make a living doing it. And if you just follow that stuff, you can usually make a living out of it. Well, I think on that profound note, we're going to leave it right there. Okay. Have fun on your next trip to Baja. We did it. I'll be here in the shop working on stuff.

Oh, wait, I have a question. Yeah, I've already looked around. What's the perfect vehicle for going to Baja? So, you know, that's an interesting thing. You probably see it in your world. people have preconceived notions about what they need to sleep outside, drive on dirt, go to a place that's next door that they don't know a lot about. But those people next door, they eat every day. They put gas in their vehicles every day. They have more dirt with less rules than

we have, but it's kind of the same air, the same dirt. Yeah. And when we think that you can't go onto their dirt without a bumper like this and 15 of those across the top of your thing and 40-inch tires and 100 gallons of gas, because you never know when you're going to be able to get gas again, there's a lot of preconceived notion. So when I'm driving down a dirt road in Baja in two-wheel drive, and the only guy that I'm going to see there is in a 40-year-old,

clapped-out Ford Ranger with one headlight pointing, you know, to the right, not even on the road, no tail lights, whatever fluid smells like, it's burning a lot of stuff. And he's got four people in the front and a calf tied up in the back or six people in the back and the dog. That guy doesn't have any lights. He doesn't have any ARB stuff. He's not cruising in shield mans with an auxiliary tank or even a or even a Yeti cooler. Yeah. He doesn't even have a Yeti insulated mug with him. Like, and he does it day after day after day after day. He doesn't have any max tracks. He doesn't have any, doesn't have a winch.

He doesn't have any recovery gear. And that's what I realized, you know, 10 years I drove my total stock, 50-year-old suspension, 10-year-old tires, you know, 30-inch wheels, all that through Baja, bench seats, lap belts, no lights, and I just drove it and enjoyed it. And so what's the perfect vehicle? The one you have, the one that you can put gas in, I took high school kids in postal jeeps, you know, through Baja and it exploded their heads. With this yard work going on right here, Fred, I'm going to say, we're going to turn off the mics and I want to say just thanks a lot for making some time for Slow Baja. Sure.

Have a great day. All right. We did it. Hey, well, I hope you enjoyed that brief podcast. Travel Talk with Slow Baja. Yeah, it's back. It is back. I hope to bring you an occasional show on news you can use

or tell you about a place that I just stayed in or an restaurant I ate in or a service that you need to know about or a punga captain that's really cool. Anyways, thanks to Baja Bound for making that happen, bringing that series back. I appreciate their underwriting 20 years with Baja Bound, 20 years. That's right. I started back in 2006 with them. Amazing.

All right. Well, if you like what I'm doing, please, please, please, please drop a taco in the tank. Go to slowbaha.com. Click that donation link. pick out the number of tacos you're going to send is it one is it five or you send in a whole tray of tacos because you know i need them dang i need them but i get it if you don't have tacos or if you have tacos you're not willing to share them please do me a solid go on to apple or spotify drop a five-star review say something nice because that helps people find the show and that is always always helpful and it doesn't cost anything so

Drop some tacos in the tank or or and or drop a five-star review on Apple or Spotify. Say something nice and I really appreciate it. Okay, I'm going to close up with Mary McGee, Mary McGee, Offroad Motorsports Hall of Famer. When I reached out to her, she didn't even know what a podcast was. Pretty soon she does a podcast and Offroad Motorsports Hall of Fame reaches out, Fast tracks her into the hall. She gets a ESPN 30 for 30 documentary. It gets a New York Times obituary.

Amazing, amazing stuff that happened to Mary McGee at the end of her life. And I was happy to know her and have a small part and all that. All right. Well, she had a friend. That's right, Steve McQueen, who invited her to go out to the desert and ride motorcycles. And Mary said, ooh, and get dirty, Steve? And Steve said, yeah, come on out. Me and the Eakin boys were going to ride.

And she did. Anyways, well, you know, Steve loved Baja. He said, you know, Mary, Baja's life. Anything that happens before or after? Just waiting. You know, people always ask me, what's the best modification that I've ever made to slow Baja? Without a doubt, it's my Shielman seats.

You know, Toby at Shield Man USA could not be easier to work with. He recommended a Vero F for me and a Vero F XXL for my. navigator Ted. His Ted's kind of a big guy. And Toby was absolutely right. The seats are great and they fit both of us perfectly. And let me tell you, after driving around Baja for over a year on these seats, I could not be happier. Shieldman, slow Baja approved, learn more and get yours at shielman.com. You know, I'm all about keeping things simple, travel and light, and finding the really good stuff. And that's why I've been wearing iron and resin for years. It's not just clothes. It's gear that holds up in the dust, the salt, the spilled tacos, and still looks good when you're rolling to town.

Made in small batches by folks who care, no flash, no fast fashion, just the kind of stuff that gets better, the more you wear. Check them out at iron and resin.com and pick up something that'll last the next thousand miles.