Slow Baja - Author Graham Mackintosh On His Famed Book Into A Desert Place

Episode Date: January 7, 2022

Happy New Year, Slow Baja amigos! I am delighted to be on my first Baja trip of 2022. For the next two weeks, I'll be off-the-grid, scouting dirt trails for the NORRA 1000. In the meantime, here is one of my favorite conversations from last year. Enjoy this escape to Slow Baja with Graham Mackintosh. "The key to victory is throwing yourself at it and see what happens." Napoleon Graham Mackintosh won the UK Adventurous Traveller of the Year Award in 1987 for his walk around the Baja peninsula from 1983-1985. He captured the experience of his extraordinary voyage in his 1988 book Into a Desert Place. Growing up in England as admitted couch potato, Mackintosh became obsessed with the idea of walking the entire Baja peninsula and writing a book about it. He was utterly unprepared for what he was embarking on, from finding scorpions in his swim trunks to eating rattlesnakes and cactus for two years. "I was the last person in the world who should be doing this, but if I could do it, anybody could." Graham Mackintosh is the author of four Baja books. Check out all of Graham's adventures at his website Follow Graham on Facebook

Well, it's a new year, and I have to say thank you for tuning in to Slow Baja. First week of January, and I am already on the road for a two-week dirt drive with the guys over at Nora, Eliseo Garcia, and Pepe Giza. I had them on the show way, way, way, way, way back at the beginning, and I can't wait to see Baja with those guys who live there and know it and have planned the last 10 years of the Nora routes. So we're going to see some great stuff, and I can't wait to share it with you down the road, the dirt road. But for today, I am bringing you a conversation that I had with Graham McIntosh, which I broadcast early last year. Graham is such a delightful personality, and I've been reading his subsequent books following up to into a desert place, which we discuss in this podcast. But Graham is such a delight that I hope you'll listen to the podcast. If you've heard it already, I hope you'll listen to it again.

He's really a treat and you should enjoy this one. I do. And thanks for all of you who waited through the Slow Baja sold outs on this, that, and the other thing, the supply chain thing is real. Holy Toledo, man, just can't get the stuff made. I've got some hats in production now and I got in with my embroidery shop and looked through all of their in-stock stuff. So I've got some stuff in the store right now that once it's

gone. You may never see it again, but it's pretty cool. I've got some flex fits in gray and black, make you look like an undercover cop. I've got a bright pink. It's beautiful, a bright pink truckers hats, and I don't know if I'll be able to get those ever again. So if you like bright pink, jump on it. There are three new knit hats in stock, a beautiful olive, a navy, and a lined charcoal in case you're going someplace super cold. So that's all new in the Slowbaha store at slowbaha.com. Stickers are back in stock. And anyways, I just want to say thanks

to those of you who made a donation. I don't have your names in front of me today. I'll catch you next week. But Holly Michaels, she slid an entire party tray of tacos in and said, thanks. I've never been to Baja, but I have an overwhelming urge to go now,

and it's all your fault. So Holly Michaels, you're the best. Thank you very much. And I'll be back with the new show next week. Cheers. Hey, this is Michael Emery. Thanks for tuning into the Slow Baja. This podcast is powered by Tequila Fortaleza, handmade in small batches, and hands down my favorite tequila. Hey, I want to tell you about your new must-have accessory for your next Baja trip. Benchmark Maps has released a beautiful, beautiful Baja California Road and Recreation Atlas. It's a 72-page large format book of detailed maps and recreation guides that makes the perfect planning tool for exploring Baja.

here's up at Benchmarkmaps.com. Graham, say hello. So hi. And you can see my car, because I left the windows over. So save me turning around occasionally. Feel free to sit next to me. Like a bottle of tequila in there and my cell phone. It's 50 yards over your shoulder and I'm keeping an eye on it.

So it's a beautiful morning here in sunny San Diego. I'm sitting down outdoors. What's the name of this park, Graham? Marion Bear. Marion Bear. We're at Marion Bear Park in San Diego, North County, and I'm sitting down with Graham McIntosh. I've been chasing him around for about a year,

and here we are. He wanted to let me get a little better at my game before he sat down with me. But, Graham, I'm just delighted that you made some time for me, so say hello. Oh, good morning. No problem. Enjoying it. Well, Graham and I have been chatting just a little bit about today's show, and Graham's done so much.

in Baja that I feel like we just are going to try and talk about your walk in 1983. I've got it sitting right here into a desert place. And I'm hoping that you can come back to the show in the future, and we can work our way through the rest of your books. You've got quite an extensive collection, and maybe I'll just have you go through it now. Well, if I'm still alive, I'll be really happy to. I'll see you next week.

I'm going to use it as an excuse to get down to see you in Baja next week. So, Graham, take us through. You started with into a desert place, and when did that come out? That came out in 1988. 88. And the trip was 83, 85. It was over two years.

And I was basically walking around the coast of Baja. I came from England. I hardly knew any Spanish. I hardly knew what the desert was. But it seemed like a good idea that as a couch potato, I could come over and walk around Baha and write this book. And the reason I did it was I'd been to Baja once before, and twice before.

And every time I just thought, this place is so lovely and so incredible. I wanted to go back and have that experience. I tried to persuade my girlfriend at the time to come with me and spend some time and write a book. She thought I was totally crazy, got rid of me real quick. And I thought if I'm going to do it, I've got to do it alone.

I've got to do it myself. Well, take me back to your childhood. I mean, people in the States who live outside of Southern California hardly know about Baja. But take me back to your childhood in England. Are you originally from Scotland? Do I have that right? No, my father is Scottish, hence the name, Macintosh. All right.

But my mother is Irish. So growing up in England is a natural. I grew up in England. I grew up in London. Okay. Yeah. So I think of myself as, well, it's hard to say. a Scottish Irish English person.

And so how did, tell me a little bit about your childhood, but then tell me how did Baja come into your life? Well, I was born in London. My father was a soldier in the Second World War, and I remember growing up playing around bomb sites and all that kind of stuff in London, inner city kid. Amazed, I survived my first five years.

But later on, I settled down to become a couch potato when I moved out of London and just didn't go abroad. I was the kind of guy who was happiest in a pub or watching TV and wanted no risks in my life, no danger. And it was like that all through college. And then my neighbors, I lived in Sheffield at the time. I was at the university in Sheffield. And my next door neighbors moved to Los Angeles.

His father was an American citizen. the right to go over there and start a new life. Well, I was real good friends with my neighbors and they just said, come over to Los Angeles and have an adventure, you know, and you're very welcome to stay with us. So I took them up on that. And while I was there, I hitched across America. I had all kinds of great experiences. And then I thought, well, Baja is real close. It's only down the freeway from Los Angeles. So why don't I just go to Mexico and spend a day. there and you know satisfy that curiosity well I went to Tijuana I remember looking at a wall map and like you said you know I'd never even seen bar I never even thought

about those this peninsula on that side of Mexico on the Pacific side and I was gonna go to you know so somewhere down on the mainland just to visit and I thought well look at this peninsula looks really interested and I remember I went to Ensenada. I took the bus. I jumped on a bus and I spent my birthday in Ensenada and it was really emotional. I thought, wow, this is just unbelievable. I've been happy doing this and everybody I've met has been great. So I decided to hitch my way south to see how far I'd get. Well, I got down to Cabus and Lucas and I had the most amazing time. I was getting rides in airplanes. I was going out fishing, you know, of all the tourists.

And I thought this does not happen in London. This is really amazing. And the road's empty, the desert's incredible. And that's when I started to feel this, I belong here. This is a really unusual experience. You know, it's like a religious experience. And I couldn't forget it. I went back to England and I was haunted by this crazy idea that I was going to write a book about Baja.

It was like a premonition. So that's, I get that. And it sounds like you have an obsessive tendency, like this got in you. And I just didn't know how and where. And so that's, that's amazing. So one thing that you've written that I've laughed at a lot is I said, you've, I'm going to quote you here. I've never been particularly good at anything except catering to my own comfort and safety. So expand on that.

Now you've been bitten by this peninsula. But it's a hostile place. Right. It's, you know, when you come from a very densely populated place like England, where you're more likely to freeze than you are to die of thirst or... Wash away in the rain, yeah. You know, you're not going to step on a rattlesnake in downtown London. How did you make that leap?

It was a surprise for me to find scorpions. I remember once I was pulling on my swimming trunks on my... I first visit the Baja, and I looked down as I'm pulling them up, and this is a scorpion inside the swimming trunks. And I thought, oh my God, I love this place. This is really interested. And I saw a rattlesnake. I saw Marlin. It was one thing after another that should have put me off, should have brought me to my senses and thought, I'm going to get out of here real quick.

But it had the opposite effect. I just thought this is really fascinating. And it opened my eyes. I thought I've got to be a little bit careful. You know, it's not like walking off the sidewalk, looking the wrong way. You've got to be real careful, pulling on your swimming trunks or whatever. But it really appealed to me. I just thought, this is going to be interesting.

If I lived through this, it's going to make an interesting story. So eventually, I do remember the moment when I knew I was going to do it. I was in Baye de Los Angeles, and I climbed to the top of a hill there, and I was looking out over the Sea of Cortez and the emptiness and the islands. And I remember thinking to myself, you know, what is out there? There's nothing out there. It's really, really beautiful. And I remember saying, if I'm really being called to do this, I need to be shown a sign.

You know, I need some confirmation that I'm meant to do this. And I went back to England. And I remember thinking, you know, am I really going to be walking around, Baha surviving off the sea in the desert, doing really crazy stuff. And I remember I bought my first backpack and I was walking across the moors in Yorkshire. And I remember saying, Lord, have I been sent to do this? If I'm being called, show me a sign. And as I said that, all these sheep came walking across the hills going or saying Baja, Baha.

So when I heard that, I thought, that's the moment. that's the confirmation that I'm going to do this so definitely a religious experience had you had any experience with religion before? No

I was totally religiously agnostic and had you had any experience with sheep and what they speak Spanish and say bah-ha No animal speaking to me

this was I was turned on to a new way of thinking and that's what Into Desert Place is about it's about leaving behind that rational scientific

view of the world that we in the West are prone to, and seeing a whole different experience. I don't want to dwell too much on your life in England before you left. You've already said that it cost you a girlfriend, but you had a job. You were post-collegiate working adult. It was teaching, yeah. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what you were teaching?

Because I think that's an interesting thing as well. I ended up teaching, well, I was teaching social sciences, but I was put in charge of a course for unemployed teenagers, the time and you know we were doing things like taking them out getting them jobs as mechanics and all this kind of stuff giving them work experience and i remember i was looking at these kids and i was thinking you know i'd come back from baha on my trips and i was thinking these kids have no idea what they could do with their lives if they can't find a job they're going to hang around on the street corner and just you know waste their time and i remember i was trying to persuade

them if you can't find a job go to France so only 20 minutes or well maybe an hour away on the ferry and go and work your way around Europe have an experience learn some languages and do something to enhance your life they couldn't see it their whole mentality was you know I'm a victim I can't do it you know life has nothing for me I'm unemployed and I remember that was another motivation that I'm going to, because I'm a couch potato, or I was, I'm going to walk around Baha and prove to them that with no money, you can have this wonderful experience.

And that's what I did. I took off and I was living off basically what I could catch and what I could find in the desert, distill in my own water when necessary. And that became one of my motivations to inspire those kids that I was teaching. So I left my course and said goodbye to them and gave my notice. and everyone thought I was crazy.

They couldn't understand what I was doing, but that was part of that experience. And you didn't have personal wealth. You didn't have the ability to fund this, this, I was living in poverty. Yeah, and so, exactly. So you had little. Well, I remember the trip lasted two years.

At one stage, I had $30, and I made that last about four months. And in between, I was catching fish. and eating cactus and whatever I could do to stay alive. Well, we're going to skip over all the rigmarole that you went through to, I think, prove to yourself as much to prove to others that you were going to do this. So you had some newspaper articles written about you that helped you get some gear. But basically, you were scraping up whatever you could to make this happen for as little as you could. and you didn't have the funds to even, you know, buy tents or boots or what have you. No, that was all on sponsorship.

I had to go in and persuade managers of stores to lend me this stuff. And you look like such an adventurer. It just must have been a natural, right? Yeah, they asked, what's your experience? None, exactly. Well, and that's something that I really think is interesting. Much of this boils down to you saying, if I can do it, who am I? If I can do it, anybody can do this.

Which sounds awful. Why don't they? Yeah, it sounds awfully trite and hackneyed, but that was really what I was trying to prove because of my teaching experience. And it brought me a lot of fame in England. When I was planning the trip, out of the blue, I was invited to do radio programs, television, the BBC, everything. And I just thought, oh my God, this is really taking off. And it was thanks to that publicity that I managed to get all the equipment I needed. And it must have done something for your own psyche, well. There's a snowball effect

to say that I'm doing this and these other people now believe in me so I better do it. Well, that's true and I got to the point where I thought, well, so many people think I'm going to do this. I better at least do it or die, one of the two. Well, let's touch on that for a minute. How about your mom?

She was really worried about that. Oh, she could not believe what had happened. This very normal, sensible boy suddenly decides he's going to do this. She could not understand it. And my poor mother suffered terribly when, you know, she didn't hear from me for weeks at a time. And obviously, I think she wanted to impress upon you that you could fail.

It would be okay if you failed and came home. You don't need to go die to say at least you died. That was her parting greeting to me or parting comment to me when I left, that you've got all this publicity, all these people expect you to do this, but they're going to forget you in a heartbeat if anything happens. But we'll never forget you. Come home for us. I still get emotional thinking about that.

No, honestly. And again, being a child of a World War II generation, you know, that's something. And so we're going to jump right into your thoughts here, Graham. There are no atheists in the trenches. Feeling a bit like a soldier about to go over the top to certain death, I knew exactly what that meant. Yeah. Well, again, it was, I'd rather die than not do this.

So even though I had cold feet, I was. thinking I'm a redhead, I'm burning in the sun here, I'm the last person in the world who should be doing this, I can hardly pick up my pack, I'm only five foot six, and my pack would wait about 70 pounds at the time. I remember thinking, this is close to suicide, what I'm doing, and I just set off walking, and I thought I'm going to take it day by day, and eventually two years later, I ended up having walked around the coast of Bahra. Before we get into that, I I just, I thought of something here. I mean, we'll take a quick break with this plane going over.

Okay. Hey, you doing okay? Do you need a break? No, I'm doing great. Oh, you're great. Because the concentration's there. If we take a break, I'll probably lose it. What? What was I talking about?

Yeah. Tequila, was it? Yeah. I did swallow a fly. I got a feeling my throat. Yeah, it's like looking down into that mass of swarming maggots. Oh, yeah. In the first fish camp.

The outhouse, yeah. Well, I have some very terrible hotel water in here. Okay, because the alternative is my bottle of tequila. Yeah, nothing like you drank on your trip, but it is a little salty. Oh, yeah. San Francisco has really lovely tap water. Yeah. Oh, is that where it's from?

No, that's where I'm from. Oh, okay. This is from my hotel in Pacific Beach. Oh, good. Graham, I'm wondering if you can remember your list of pros and cons that you wrote up before you left. I haven't written them down. I can more or less remember the challenges I faced, and I did write these down. Yeah, so take us through those, because we're on the cusp of you stepping off the plane and the bus and getting to San Felipe,

but just walk us through. You've already said a little bit, five foot six, fair-skinned, red hair. You can barely pick up your pack. You wrote down some pros and some cons, and then you decided how you're going to work around those or attack those. I thought as long as I can write it down, then I can come up with the solution. And the first thing was I had no Spanish. I could hardly speak a word as Spanish. I knew my chili concanis and that was probably it.

So I had to expand on my Spanish a bit. So I thought, well, that's easy enough. I buy a book and, you know, learn some. And the other thing was, you know, I wasn't fair. I mean, this is going back a little bit beyond. because I had time to get fit. And I remember I signed up for the local soccer team, you know, in England and started weight training, all these things.

And I thought, oh, this is great. You know, it hasn't killed me so far. And that really helped. So when I did the trip, I could jump right into it and feel like I'm going to, you know, at least try and make an effort to carry this pack. I didn't know anything about Desert Survival when I decided I was going to do the trip. or I knew very little about it. So I had to research stills, how that works,

just what I could eat, what I couldn't eat, how dangerous the animals were, and don't eat puffer fish and all this stuff. So I had a pretty good grounding in desert survival when I left. So anyway, I had so many problems like that. I wrote down the solution, and I just tackled each problem. I had no money,

so I remember getting everything I needed on sponsorship. And it worked out. There was nothing to hold me back. Just off I went. All I had to do was have the courage to pick up that pack of go. As you say, I started walking at San Felipe. I thought I'll head south, see how far I got. My initial plan was to walk all the way to Carbos and Lucas on the Sir Cortez.

But I got to Bayer de Los Angeles. I set off in April, so I really got to, when I got to Bayal, Los Angeles end of May, it was getting really toasty. So it was then I thought up the plan, okay, well, I'm going to go over to the Pacific. I hadn't thought about this at the time, but it was too hot to walk on the Gulf. I remember one day it was 115 degrees. So I thought that's suicide. There's no way. So I went over to the Pacific where it was a nice cool 80 degrees and started walking south at Ensenada.

did that, Gulf Pacific, Gulf Pacific, as the seasons changed. And this did take a while, so you did have to adapt. Your plan may have not been to... It took two years. I was in no hurry. I'd spend time in fish camps. A couple of times I got asked if I'd house set for people in Baja, and I ended up staying a month here and a month there.

But it all worked out. It gave me time to read and research and keep going. We're going to touch on that change when you started accepting some gifts, some kindness from the locals. But we're going to jump into your statement of no major decisions when you're down. Just keep going for one week. That was the initial goal. I remember the first day was hell. I thought I cannot pick up my pack.

The heat's killing me. I don't know what the hell these Mexicans are talking. about I didn't you know there was a lot of reasons to give up in that first week in that first day and I remember I just thought keep going and would we're gonna make a decision about this I knew if I could just keep going for a few days I'd see this through one way or another it kills me I'll see it through but those initial doubts I had to get beyond well how many days were you in it wasn't very many if I remember how many days were you in when you

up to these fishermen, you know, no food, no water, little Spanish, obviously, and you were maybe what, too proud, too foolish? I don't know how you would characterize it to ask for help. Well, I mean, so how, was it a day or two days? It wasn't very long into your trip. I think these guys. If it's the occasion I'm thinking of, it's when I was approaching Punta Bufheur. Right. And it was probably a week or more in. to the trip, hiking 10 miles a day or whatever it was. Yeah, so you're about dead, a weekend. Yeah, and I remember I needed water.

And I can't remember if I was too embarrassed to ask for it, or I think I was. I was just thinking, I'm not going to ask for it because it's too embarrassing. And I kept going, and then I immediately thought that was the craziest thing I've ever done in my life. You know, you could die out here without water. It was getting that hot. And luckily, I got to do it. Punta Bufo and there were a bunch of tourists there and I stayed there several days being

looked after. But the hospitality from everybody I met, gringoes, Mexicans, the whole trip, it was so heartwarming and I couldn't have done it without that kindness and hospitality. So we're going to circle back to that. Right. I think that's a recurring theme of my show. Oh, it's a big part of the trip. Yeah.

I think people, I just encountered it last week. I was telling somebody about, oh, yeah, you know, I go to Bob. Baja and I do this podcast and I drive my 50 year old truck and he said, what about the crime? What about the crime in Baja? Aren't you worried about the crime? And I thought, it's a crime that I can't get to Baja more often. Yeah. That was my first thought.

Right. Well, I've been traveling to Baja since 79. So I don't know what that is. Sorry, 42 years. Yeah, not quite that old. 42 years. 42 years. And I've never had a problem with anybody.

If I had walked around California for 42 years, I would be dead. I would have been murdered long ago. Maybe. I do find it ironic. I hope not, but I think you may be right. Hey, I've got a note here, water tumbling into the sea. In a moment of clumsiness, a comfortable situation had become a crisis. How many crises did you think you had?

Oh, every day. Every day. No, really. There was something. It was either a rouse snake or a scorpion. or in that case, just my own stupidity. I had plenty of water. I had three containers.

And I remember I lost, I had a big bag of water. And I dropped that and lost most of the water out of that bag. And then when I was reaching down for, I think it was my belt bottle, which was my last resort. And my first resort, I kept it on my belt. That fell out of its holster into the sea. and the cap came off that so that was pretty much ruined so suddenly I'd lost like two

gallons of water I thought if this had happened in the middle of nowhere it could have been fatal even with my stills I couldn't make water fast enough in the heat when it was really hot to stay alive so it was a big learning experience and I thought very carefully about how

I carried water after that and I didn't use the plastic bags in the belt water bottles. I carried water in chlorine bottles because I could drop those, fall in them. I never had a broken bottle. So those were just stout one gallon plastic jugs? From the pool store, yeah.

I just washed them out really good, and they cost, I think it was 25 cents each. And they saw me through the trip, and anybody sees the photograph. I'm carrying a gallon of water in one of those. I've probably got another one on my backpack. So, yeah, I had three of those. that did great service.

But pretty damn heavy. Yeah, yeah. Well, you're carrying 70, 80 pounds around, and it would be 80 pounds of all the water. It was really heavy, and it's like 100 yards at a time. And you were 130 pounds or something, right? When you started this, how much do you think? I was probably about 140, yeah.

Oh, I'm guessing. That's not bad. That's not bad guess, yeah. So you must have become really lean and sinewy and strong. It actually worked the other way. I bulked out. You know, I think as they got fit, I was pretty skinny at first. But as I look at myself going through the trip, I can see like muscles growing and my chest is expanding.

And I'm obviously getting in better shape, as you can imagine. Well, I was just wondering if you had ever adapted sort of the Chinese method of a stick with the two loads equally distributed. If you had one gallon on one end and one gallon on the other, and the stick. over your shoulder. Was that a... Did you try every which way? Carrying the stick, dragging it on the ground and putting two gallons of water on that stick. But everything was so impractical.

Right. You know, you start getting these things wedged in rocks and dragging through the sand. I thought there's no way. I'm just going to carry the water and hopefully it doesn't unbalance me, which was a big danger. And you needed one hand often for the terrain. Well, and yeah, take photographs and everything. Yeah, not... I mean, this is the old film days, not that I could take wooden two or three photos a day.

A conica point-and-shoots, I recall, after the Minnaks went down to water. Right, with a self-timer, yeah. Haiti, wish you had joined us on the Nora 500? Well, here is your chance. It's double the mileage, double the fun, double the parties, double the dirt. It is the Nora Mexican 1,000. We're going to drive by day, we're going to party by night. I'm pouring Fortaleez at Tequila, April 30th, through.

May 6th, 2022. We're driving the entire peninsula. You don't want to miss out on this one. Again, if I can do it in my 1971 Toyota Land Cruiser, totally stocked, you can do it in any modern 4x4. The Nora Mexican 1000 is the happiest race on earth. Check it out at nora.com, n-r-r-r-a-com or on Slow Baja. Here at Slow Baja, we can't wait to drive our old land cruiser south of the border. When we go, we'll be going with Baja bound insurance. The website's and easy to use, check them out at bahabound.com. That's bahabound.com, serving Mexico travelers since 1994. And let's get back to it.

I'm here with Slow Baja sitting down with Graham McIntosh in a beautiful park in North County, San Diego, birds flying and chirping and airplanes overhead and a slight breeze blowing. We're sitting in the shade and keeping an eye on Graham's car so that bottle of tequila doesn't get stolen. And we're going to jump back into. Into a desert place, Graham's 3,000 mile walk around the coast of Baja, California, from 1983 to 1985. The book was published in 1988, correct?

Great. All right. And it was the winner, Graham McIntosh was the winner of the adventurous Traveler of the Year Award. Which was a British award. Sounds very British. It was a big surprise for me because I was the biggest couch potato, most unadventurous person in the world. And I got nominated for that when I went back to England by a magazine editor. and big surprise to get a letter suddenly saying,

you are the adventurous traveler of the year, come to the Savoy Hotel, meet the Duchess of Gloucester, and so on. So that was a big bonus. Wow. Well, we're going to flip back from that moment of glory to this, which I think dovetails nicely. I'm quoting you again, Graham, apart from brief golden moments of peace and confidence,

This adventure was going to be incessant anxiety with no certainty, no guarantees, no trails, no decent maps, no roads to follow, no guides to lead. I was a complete novice staking my life on my decisions. I had good reason to be worried. It's coming back to me. I'd forgotten that was fairly early on in the trip. And that was pretty much how I felt. I just thought I could make the wrong decision here and my life's over. So it was a great incentive.

It's funny how energizing fear and death is. So, yeah, I remember those early days, I thought exactly that. As the trip went on, I was much more relaxed about it. Once you've survived about 100 days of doing this, it becomes normal. I was more worried about the day that I would finish it and go back to normal life and try and go back to traffic and work. and that really scared me. I must have.

Yeah, I was very happy doing the trip at the end. So, again, we keep coming back to this on the Slow Baja podcast. Kindness of strangers, the Mexican who stops for you when you're broken down when an American goes by in their comfortable motor home with the air conditioning, blasting, drinking a cold one probably. You were into a fish camp. And you really got a heaping dose of mikasa as Sukhasa. Right. That was my biggest memory of the locals.

I mean, mostly, because I'm on the coast, I'm seeing remote villages and fish camps, as I'd call them. And I'd go out shark fishing with these guys. But I remember in the whole trip, on the whole trip, I couldn't make one Mexican, take one peso for all they did for me. and that it was just like that tradition of hospitality was unbelievable and I might have overplayed that in the book you know a lot of people look at the book and say well this guy was just mooching off the

locals but I wanted to give credit to all these people that helped me and that was a theme of the book they would even say that out here we are all brothers and you know I really just almost brought tears to my eyes at times because I had nothing. I knew I couldn't give these guys anything. Well, you said, but I have no money to pay you back. Right. And your reply was money.

What do I want with money? I have what I need, and what is mine is yours. I remember the fishermen who said that, yeah. I mean, it's so simple, so powerful and so unbelievable in modern society. And I would never have known that or experienced it. except that I did that walk. And it was like every week I'd hit a fish camp, sometimes more. And it was the same story all the way around Baja.

And I recently kayaked down to La Paz. And I stopped at a couple of these fish camps. And I remember one I went to, they greeted me. When they found out who I was, you know, they said, Oh, Pato Donald, which was the name I used at the time, because Graham was something that they just couldn't get it. Yeah. So I called myself, my other name is Donald.

So I called myself Pato Dono. And they all laughed at that. And I'd forgotten. But when these guys greeted me as Pato Donald, they had not forgotten after 40 years. You may be with the grandkids of some of these folks, right? Yeah. They introduced me to their family and wonderful people.

They were just really, really beautiful. Even 40 years later, the ones I saw. One guy possibly saved my life. and I met his family and they were telling me he was a fisherman in Loretto and I went back to see him when I found out

but I think he's photos in my book but that was a big moment Can you tell me a little bit about that? Well I was up in the mountains Most people don't get to say the person who possibly saved my life and really mean it right

and I didn't have a lot to give but I gave this guy my filetian knife just as a thank you. But I was up in the mountains between Laredo and Lepaz, and there's a stretch in the middle there that's really challenging. And I remember I couldn't walk along the coast. Normally I'd try and walk on the rocks, right under the cliffs, and you can do it for 95% of Baja.

There's no problem. You just wait for the tide, and you can do it. But that stretch, there's cliffs straight into the water. I had to climb inland. And when I climbed inland, it was getting hot. My water level was going down. I couldn't use my stills, which needed seawater. So I got into trouble.

I got to the point where I was dizzy and on the verge of sunstroke. I knew I'd been pushing myself too hard. And I was desperately trying to get along. But I kept running into canyons that would go nowhere. And I knew this could get really serious. And it was at that point that this guy happened to leave his fish. He was up in these mountains. He was looking for his goats, rounding up his goats, and he found me and led me down to his fish camp.

And it was that fish camp that I stayed for several days recovering. I was on the verge of, I was in no shape to walk once I got down there. And they looked after me. Again, wouldn't take any money. And that was the one when I kayaked by. They all knew me, and they still remembered me. Amazing. I've got tears in my eyes right now.

now just just just hearing that I mean and it was a great privilege for me to go back and meet that fisherman who was a young lad at the time he was probably a teenager and now he's 60s and to see him again and compare photographs it was and to give him the photographs from back in the 80s well it's hard for me to think about as I drive my old truck around and we stop for tacos and we have a cooler with us and, you know, it's like a modern day borough. As long as we can keep gas in it, we'll get down the road easily. You were trying to live off the land. So to set this up for the few people who had listened to Slow Baja and don't know your story,

your attempt was to walk the perimeter of the Baja Peninsula. Yeah. That was always my goal. All the way around the coast. That was my security. If I was by the coast, I could use my stills. Occasionally I had to go inland because of the cliffs. whatever. And that's almost invariably when I got to a point where I thought I could die here.

This is really scary. So if I could stay by the water, I would, which meant walking on the rocks, walking on the sand, which there was no easy walking on the coast, carrying 80 pounds. And occasionally I'd slip, especially at the beginning. I fall quite often, fall pretty hard. But at the end of the trip, I was like a cat. I couldn't... Or a goat. Or a goat, yeah. I was very good at walking on wet, slimy rocks and carrying my pack.

Well, when did you decide you needed a break? And how did that thought come in and well up to the point where, like, I really, I need to stop? It wasn't planned. I thought I'd just walk all the way around. Exactly. But then I got the idea, let's change coasts. and it seemed very appropriate at that point. If I'm going to change coasts, you know, time a week doesn't matter,

a two weeks doesn't matter. This is going to take, you know, a while. I would at that point decide to go back. So I did it three times. I went back to San Diego or Los Angeles it was at the time. And re-equipped. My equipment was torn apart. My boots were falling apart.

I went through seven pairs of boots on this trip. So occasionally I'd go back, re-equipped. at that point I'd change over and go over to say the Pacific from the Gulf to deal with the hotter weather. And this entire time that you're on this walk, you're living hand to mouth essentially, cleaning up, you cleaned up Blondie's camp for $100? The lowest point and maybe the highest point, I'm not sure. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of money. I guess it was $100.

You were down to like $10 or something. Oh, I was down. Yeah, probably nothing, a couple of bucks. Yeah. Right. Enough money for tortillas and maybe a few beans or something. And so really, you're living this entire time picking up whatever you can pick up. You were sort of van-lifing before van-lifing was a thing. You had your pack and your tent and you were just making it up every day. And it worked.

And it worked. That was the funny thing. When I was short of money, I just thought, I've got to sit down and figure out how I'm going to deal with. this, the solution always came. It was part of that religious experience. You think, what I've got to do is sit down, wish for something, and it would happen. I'm laughing. I'm wishing for a cold beer, wishing for a to be over the next hillock, and there she was. There she was. But, you know, you were living off the land, yet what I find ironic, you're not a you're not a he-man mercenary-type fella. You were a scrimand. You were a

squeamish about dispatching a lobster to make it your dinner. Oh, I was very squeamish about rattlesnakes at first. Which you also had to dispatch or they were going to dispatch you. Right. And I had to go through a little bit of a learning curve. Yeah. And again, after a while, you do it for a hundred days. It becomes very normal. And I would see a rattle snake. I'd be thinking, I'm fed up of eating fish. That snake would be in the frying pan before it knew it. And now I wouldn't dream of killing a ral snake. But at the time, that was meat. There was plenty of them.

So I had no qualms about eating them. But at first, I thought, this is ridiculous. I'm eating a rous snake. And this is dangerous killing this thing. So definitely my outlook changed. Well, what was that Napoleon quote? I think it was a Napoleon quote that you had in the book. The key to victory is to throw yourself at it and see what happens.

And that's so true. Throw yourself in and see what happens. And so many people defeat themselves by never trying. I figured that out. I've done it all my life. So you just think, oh, I'm not good enough, right? I'm not strong enough. And once I realize you just go in, you go for it, you'll probably succeed.

Well, Graham, it's a recurring theme in your book. You managed to walk over how many years again? It was two years. Two years. It's almost exactly two years by the time I got to Cabo and finished the trip. You ate rattlesnakes, you managed not to get killed by one, scorpions, black widows, stings, stingrays. Got stung a few times, yeah, I never got a stingray sting. I was very careful about my stingray shuffle.

Never been stung in 40-some years. And I hear so many people just, they're not aware like I was of the dangers. and, you know, I've had probably six scorpion stings in 40 years, so I don't think that's too bad. Well, walk us through some of those highlights and lowlights, where you were really down in the depths of despair, and then those brief moments, or maybe they were lasting moments of just highlights. Yeah, the despair came right at the beginning. Funny enough, before I'd even take one step, I thought I just cannot handle this. Anybody who reads that book will know I'm in San Felipe and I'm almost in tears.

If I wasn't in tears, thinking I've got all this publicity, all these people expecting me to do this. I can hardly pick up my pack, never mind walking on the beach in the sun. So it was depressing that first few days I had to get through. Most of the adventures after that were over so quick. It's not like a stress that you build up like in modern living. You see a rattlesnake, you get attacked by a rabid animal. Something happens and it's over. And you either survive or you don't.

And usually I survive. Obviously I survive. But there was stuff I had to deal with, but nothing like the depression. I actually came to enjoy the trip, appreciate the beauty. And I felt very privileged though. God, I'm looking at all this cactus and this beautiful coastline. It got it all to myself, fantastic beach combing. It was just amazing.

I felt very privileged to be there. Some of the highlights, well, God, there were just so many. We talked about one, the people I met. I might have been a week alone, but when I did finally meet somebody, it was usually wonderful. I mean, everybody I met, I just thought what great people they are. and you've got time to know them and appreciate them and vice versa. So, yeah, highlights. The whole trip was a highlight after about a month.

And do you ever find yourself becoming fluent in Spanish? Because Spanish was a problem. I learned maybe 100 words and I could get by. You can get by. Yeah, my grammar and the conjugations, I'd never, figured that one out. But I get by and I'm very lazy. I think I'm a bit dyslexic too. So learning Spanish does not come easy for me. Well, we're going to kind of put in high gear here and get off of the walk. I do want to, I can't,

I've got some notes here and I just can't help myself. The first Mexican will stop. I've got that note here. The first Mexican will stop. You're hitching a couple of times on this trip. Right. And. Yeah, well, usually when I'm returning to the States or something like that. Yeah. And so now you're really relying on the kindness of strangers. And the strangers who had the absolute most, who had the absolute most in common with you, who you looked like to some degree.

Right. I probably looked poorer than they did. at times. Just powered on by. Oh, yeah, I thought you were going to say the Mexicans. And then the first Mexican will stop. Yeah. And that was something I noticed, the bigger the motor home, the fancy of the rig, the less likely somebody is to stop.

But the poor people have to figure out how to fit you in the vehicle and move the load and all that. They're going to stop. They're going to take the time. They're going to fit you in. And that was eye-opening. Three people in the front seat, nine people in the back of the little pickup truck running on three cylinders and two bald tires. Right. They're going to give you the ride.

There was one downside to that. In the book, I got a ride. I was returning to Baye to Los Angeles to pick up there. And I got a ride near to Cardi. And these people overturned their pickup. I was in the back. And there was, I think about four of us in the back. And there were three up front.

they just took a curve way too fast and next thing I know I'm sliding down the road at 50 miles an hour watching this pickup overturning in front of me praying nothing's going to land on me and again it's all over you know you don't have time to worry about it I'm find myself in the middle of the road thinking oh my God my equipment scattered everywhere I'm still you know I've got a couple of bruised thumbs or whatever

but I seem to have got away with this and I gathered up all my equipment and I remember the seven other people in that pickup by the time I got back to the pickup they'd all disappeared I have no idea to this day where they went there's the vehicle there's me and all the local ranchers are coming down thinking I was driving this thing

and they're all saying you're crazy you went around this go and I remember thinking this is not good I just set off from San Diego and I was working my way down I went back to San Diego to make sure I was okay, presumed upon some hospitality of some great people who looked after me. And a couple of days later, I was convinced there's nothing amiss. And I set off again sticking my thumb out at the same spot where I got that previous ride. Well, you made the walk.

Tell me a little bit about the end and realizing that the end was nigh, and you had to deal with that. Well, the last four months I had a burrow with me, and the end coincided with the end of that, Bonnie the Borough, yeah. And I walked down the Pacific Coast from San Ignacio, where I bought Bonnie for $30. You're so rich now. Yeah, right. I think I'd written a couple of articles, and I thought, well, I can invest now in Borough. So I got to Carbo and I remember thinking I did not want the trip to end. What a difference from the beginning where I didn't feel like I don't even want it to start.

And I just very slowly walked down the coast and I was thinking this is what I'm seeing now. I camp right on the beach in Carbo in the 80s and I was thinking this is going to change. Already I could see development from a year before and I knew that Carbo was selected. to just boom. And I remember walking into Carbo thinking, wow, I've spent two years on this trip. It's been an estimated 3,000 miles I've walked. I've got my borough companion here,

and I feel really happy. I feel happy with the people I've met. And I'm in great shape. And I just got to the end of the trip, and it was like a religious moment. I just looked back on the calling and going ahead with it, even though I had my doubts, and it all worked out. So I had a lot to think about.

I had a lot to meditate about when I was sitting on the beach there in Cabo. And immediately, the funny thing was, what do I do with this burrow? And my amigo, beautiful white burrow, a gilding, friendly guy. And I remember I was sitting on the beach, and this guy came along and he said, I've got a restaurant just up the coast there, just up the beach, and I'd like to buy your borough. Is it for sale? And I said, well, yeah. And he said, well, I've got $30.

Is that enough? So I recovered the $30 from that borough. That was the kind of happening that went on through the whole trip. You can't predict it. You can't imagine this working out, but it all worked out. right to the end. And then you had to find the time and the inspiration and get through whatever doubts and problems that occurred to actually sit down and write it.

So how did you do that and where did you do that? Well, there's something very focusing about suffering for two years. I knew I was going to write that book. I knew I had a real adventure. I knew there was going to be an audience for this. But you were not a published, well, you were a published writer, but you were not a prolific writer of books at this stage. I'd written a few articles for Mexico West and a few newspapers.

But, yeah, I hadn't written a book. Take me through that process. Well, the interesting thing is before I did the trip, I went to every publisher in London, in England. I wrote to them and asked them would they like to do a book on my trip. And, of course, they all said no, or a couple said, well, if you survive, let us have a chance to see it. And at the end of the trip, I won that award, the Adventurous Traveler of the Year award.

And that made a big difference because suddenly a lot of publicity and all kinds of magazine editors are approaching me. And I remember I got a letter from the book company, which was Unwin-Hinman in London. And they said, we'd like to do a book of your trip. So I said, Greg, right? And I already had a letter of rejection from them, from the book. first time they said no we don't think this story's going to work so I went down and assigned the contract and after I signed the contract I showed the editor this letter saying this is not going to work we laughed about it but um

it all just fell into place and I got the book published it came out in ADE at wonderful process great publishing company very kind and supporting and yeah into it as a place suddenly became came real. And yet, any sensible person would have said this guy's never going to live. He's never going to write a book. It's too fantastic and it all happened.

And so, did you sit down in your parents' home with a typewriter and type away on this? 1988? It's not real computers yet. Yeah, I spent a lot of time in Los Angeles with my friends and maybe six months there

and I was writing everything I could. I was close to Glendale College. So I went over to the library and they had a pretty good Baja collection. So I was able to do quite a bit of research there. And then I went back to England for maybe a year. I went back to live with my parents who were glad to see me alive, I think. So again, I could go to the British Museum and research Baja and the pirates, the British angle to Baja history. And I had enough information. I spent my time putting this book together. together and yeah I think the first computer I had to write this thing a word

processor basically it was a one-line screen and with that I was so enthralled I thought oh my god this is terrific yeah I mean I don't have to use a typewriter this is wonderful I got a line to correct this kids who are listening today Graham did not have a cell phone in his pocket they could locate him anywhere no GPS no GPS nothing he had to think about each word and spell it correctly right Yeah, that's right. No spell check. It was very interesting. It definitely worked that I could write the book on that machine. And so the book came out?

The book came out and, yeah. Did you have your 15 minutes of fame? Oh, I think more than 15 minutes. I did a lecture tour in England, probably 300 lectures. And I was doing all kinds of radio shows and major publisher. So they put me on with a lot of publicity. television and everything. So for a while in England,

I was telling everybody about Baja California. And did you have a shtick? Did you have some Baja clothing, some sandals, some something that you put on to make you look the part? Oh, yeah. I still had my still. Still had your still?

I still had that to show. I had my pet rattlesnake, which I still have. Right, the stuffed rattlesnake that made the entire trip with you. I made the entire trip in my backpack, yeah. And what else? I had not a GPS, but I had an emergency beacon that I could have activated. It was a one-off shot. And if I really got into trouble, I could have activated that. And I never used it. And I still had that to show. I actually returned the live unit to the company at the end of the trip.

And they sent me a dummy unit for demo purposes. Yeah, just lots of photographs to share. And I was very blessed because even though I was using a film camera and I didn't have a lot of film, I was very blessed the pictures I took told the story pretty well. And so what happens when you walk into a pub in London and sit down in 1989 or 1990? Well, probably nothing. There's too many crazy English people. You get a beer and you start talking about this place that nobody even knows.

about? No. How did you keep that inside after you did it? Oh, I'm a pretty quiet kind of person. I like my anonymity, and it was very easy. And I didn't spend that long in England. I was itching to go back to Baja. So once the book was published, my publisher didn't have the rights to publish in the

United States. Well, they never had an outlet for it. So I decided, I'm going to buy the U.S. rights to this book. and publish it myself. So I brought out a hardcover, paid for it myself. And I was living in Los Angeles at the time, but brought out, yeah. And work-wise? Were you working a regular job?

No, that became my life. That was it. You're telling people about Baja and selling books. Went to a lot of schools and told them about my trip. And so I was able to use my educational experience. and my goal to tell people, young people, this is what you can do. And, yeah, that became my life. You became a motivational speaker.

I guess so, yeah. Talking about Baja. Yeah, I'd like to think so. When did you make the move to decide that Baja was going to be the place that you were going to live? And was that economics only, or was it love? No, it was, I was itching to go back. I just thought, what am I doing in London? What am I doing in all this traffic near London?

And I thought I could be in Baja, I could be fishing, could be seeing whale sharks and all this. And so I very quickly went back and started doing trip after trip. And just spending as much time as I could in Baja, riding about it and making a living like that. And I never got rich. Didn't have to get rich. I'd been around this mentality that what do I need money for?

As long as I've got enough to pay my bills, I'm happy. And so I sacrificed everything. not that it was a big sacrifice to stay in bar. Well, you're driving a car that looks relatively new. You've got clean clothes on. You look like you're doing all right. Well, I just got to my 70th birthday, so I think Social Security really helps. I read in the book, May 19th was your birthday, and we are recording, what, here on the 25th, so about a week into your seventh decade.

And last night I had my birthday party, and thanks for you. a good friend and got a bottle of tequila in the car ready to go. Well, the next time we see each other will be in Baja and I'll have a fine bottle of Fortaleza to share with you. Oh, my God, I hope I stay coherent. We don't have to drink the whole thing at once, but we can try. Graham, I am delighted you made some time for me today. I posted up on Facebook this morning that I was going to see you and asked if people had

some questions for you. So I'm going to pull up my Facebook right here while we're talking to see. See who has a question to ask Graham. So if you've got a few more minutes, we'll jump into the lightning round. All right. So let's take a look. We're not C.J. Frost, young C.J. Frost. What are some of the things that you saw walking that would be missed while he's asking about your mode of transportation and my mode of transportation?

So I drive this 50-year-old land cruiser. CJ wants to know what are some of the things that you saw walking that would be missed while driving an old land cruiser. So I recently, in the end of January of this year, drove basically your route all the way down the east coast and up the west coast and staying as close to the coast as possible on both ways. But it's not like you where you're clamoring over rocks and skittering through coyote trails and whatnot.

So you know the road well, the old roads. I was on dirt as close to the coast as possible. Let's answer CJ's question. What do you see where you are at your speed versus 20 miles an hour in my land cruiser? I like going at that speed. And the reason I do is you see so much stuff that you'd never see in a car, mostly wildline. and you know rattlesnakes scorpions you drive right by those but you get very close to the to the bugs to the plants and and and as a spiritual dimension I don't like being around noise I don't like being around fumes

and most modes of transport including pungas ears noisy it's fuming and I like to be walking or in a kayak and you just see so much more so it takes time you know, not everybody can do it, but I paddled a whole length of the Sea of Cortez to La Paz, going probably at walking pace, and you see so much. You see so much wildlife in the ocean on shore and deer and coyotes. That to me is the way to go. That's the way to see Baja. Can we make a pact right now that you'll tell me about that on a future Slow Baja podcast?

Oh, absolutely. All right. With pictures. Terrific. Gabe, I'm going to butcher the last name here, Gabe, Arrivese. Why is it important to engage and immerse yourself within the culture of Baja, California's people? What can we stand to learn from those living in remote towns or ranches, and how do we apply those lessons to our daily lives? Yeah, I think that's a good question, because so many people, they only see the towns and the cities, and you get an experience from that.

if you're out in the middle of nowhere, you see really a much more authentic experience with the people. And that's something I would treasure because it's a very different experience. In town, you know, fair enough, it's commercial, everybody's trying to make a buck and a living and you're going to run into crime and all the rest of it. The kindness and hospitality in the middle of nowhere

and the trust and all that stuff is just, heartwarming and the people of Baja California they have a tradition of hospitality that should be celebrated it's probably one of the finest in the world and I was the beneficiary of that so that that's my main take from all my travels in Baja is I'm avoiding towns I'm avoiding the highway and I'm enjoying the authentic experience and people who are just kindness that comes second nature to them and they got time for you whereas in the towns and on the highway people don't have time it's quite a quite a contrast I think that's a that's an important

touchstone there of time and that I find that just coming from California going to Mexico even the people in the towns have a lot more time for you than then we have for each other here but then you're making it making the next leap to the people who are out on those ranches and they just it's not like they're sitting inside with the flat screen the AC on oh right it's not like they're all hooked onto their cell phones and TVs they they want you to talk and be the entertainment for the evening and vice versa so we've covered this but we're going to ask it again here and you can say it ed hall wants to know how many pairs of boots did you go through well i went i went through seven i was on my last two

when I finished the trip. So I had seven pairs of boots that I went through. And some of them, well, a lot of them were given to me. And, you know, the rocks and the salt water and the sun killed boots very quickly. It was amazing how little you should get out of really expensive boots. So seven pairs, yeah. And how about your knees and your ankles? A lot of sprained ankles, a lot of scuffed knees?

No, no. I found, as long as I could say, survived that first few weeks where I was falling over like nobody's business. I got very good at walking on the rocks. I got very good. My body was in great shape. And I was almost immune to injury. I'd cut myself and I wouldn't even think about it. Amazing. Brian Richard Smith wanted to know what happened to the donkey. He doesn't remember the name. That's Bonnie, which we covered. And you sold Bonnie at the end of your trip. To a Mexican restaurant. And you broke even. They weren't going to eat Bonnie. He was just going to be an attraction.

This is what I thought about afterwards. I thought, 30 bucks, maybe that is burritos. But I went to the restaurant and he was outside with a hat on and his ears sticking through a hat. And he was a tourist attraction to add some ambiance to the restaurant. So Bonnie got

a nice retirement. Bonnie got a really happy retirement. Yeah. My friend Christopher Scott Reddish, who's a real Baja, aficionado. He said if there was only one place, if there were one place only, you could be transported back to, to sea, absorb, or experience again, where would that place be? Well, it's got to be Bayeer de Los Angeles.

And it's very accessible. It's only a day's drive from the border. But every time I go there, you've got so many islands and so much desert and cactus. that's become my go-to place for the last 20 years. Every chance I get, I go there. I like kayaking there. I just came back from several trips. I went out to Guardian Angel Island,

which is the big island protecting L.A. Bay. But I was out there for three recent trips, kayaking. Two weeks on each trip, I didn't see anybody. It's that remote. So, although it's a nice, pleasant town around it, it's just absolutely amazing. North, South, inland or out to the islands. And I just keep going back there. Every time I go to somewhere in Baja, the memories keep flooding back.

I just returned from Puerto Lopes Mateos. I hadn't been there since the trip. And I just, again, I started meeting people I'd met 40 years ago and thinking, this is amazing. I really enjoy this place too. So two interesting sides of the country of the peninsula, Bahia de Los Angeles on the inland north side. I've only spent a minute there recently on this last trip, went to see Roger and Carol Mears. And it just struck me, you know, Antaro Diaz and the glory days that they had when people were flying right into downtown, downtown, once one street, right? When people were flying into Baja, those glory days that Bihia de Los Angeles has,

and it just seems a little bit, I want to see down on its heels, but a little bit forgotten now. And you're really finding some beauty there. Oh, absolutely. Lopez Mateos is a pretty quiet place as well. Yeah. So tell me about that a little bit. We're going to expand on Christopher's question. Tell me a little bit about that area of the Baja Peninsula.

Lopez Mateos and that sort of quiet area there. Yeah, it's a whale destination. So a lot of people know of it. It's Magdalena Bay. But I went out there and met some friends who I'd met 40 years ago. They invited me back and I'm really glad I went at a wonderful time. And went out to some of these barrier islands. I can't remember the name of the island now,

but maybe Margarita Island or something. It's a barrier island. Went out there and I just thought, this is so beautiful. You know, we were gathering shellfish out there for to put in the garden and I thought oh man if I was just out here wandering around beachcombing I'd be I'd be in heaven and the people were great and it brought back memories of me going through that area and leaving I remember my camera broke down in 1984 I think it was and I had to leave my borough at the imps iMSS the security building there and hitched down to La Paz hoping I can get my camera repaired.

And of course I did. It was a miracle that they could repair a Conica camera. And I'm really glad they did so I took some great photos afterwards. It was down to one camera at that point. And yeah, it was all coming back to me, great, great memories. And Bonnie was fine. Somebody looked after Bonnie while you were away. Social Security there was looking after Bonnie.

Bonnie did good. And you know, a funny thing I should say, I'm divorced. but I got married. And the girl I married, her name was Bonnie. And the borough was called Bonnie. Well, we'll get into that in a later podcast, Graham. Last question here from Facebook. David Kier, your old friend,

what was the power that Baja had on you, which caused you to abandon your life in the UK and change your entire future? Well, I touched on that. I think it's the fact that it's not London. You know, London's 9 million people or whatever it is. Traffic, crime, you've got all this stuff going on. And when I discovered Bahad, open roads and beautiful cactus, mountains, deserts, islands and fishing and great people, I just thought, wow, this is something I want to be a part of.

And slowly I did become a part of it. Just made it happen. But I still feel that when I go down there. I mean, I know it's busier than it's ever been. And it's getting busier. Maybe not in this year of COVID. But in other years, it's been developing. But where I go, there's still so many places that are in the middle of nowhere.

Like, as I say, my last three trips, two weeks each, didn't see anybody. That to me is. And you mean, didn't see anybody. I literally did not see it. Well, I saw Punga's way out. I didn't speak to anybody. It's probably more accurate. Didn't get close to anybody.

But that to me is just in this crowded world, that is unbelievable. And at the same time, you've got fantastic fishing. You've got whales, you've got dolphins, you've got all kinds of stuff happening right there, especially if you're on a kayak. And what a treasure. How many places like that are left in the world? Well, I think, and most importantly, you have friends there now and community. Yeah, and memories and all that factors in.

Yeah. Well, Graham, we're going to wrap it up. You've been incredibly generous with some time this morning, and I really do hope we can work through the rest of your library on future visits. If people want to find you on the internet, you're pretty easily to find. What's the best way? Well, Facebook, I'm a real presence on Facebook, because every time I do a trip, my first thought is I want to publish these pictures before I die. So I usually publish quite a bit on Facebook. And that's Graham McIntosh. With a K. Yeah, M-C-K-I-N-T-O-S-H. Yeah, most people think I'm a computer, but it's M-A-C-K.

M-A-C-K. I do have a website. I should update it more often, but... Nobody goes to websites anymore. Graham-Mackintosh.com. It'll be in the show notes. Okay, and this year alone, I've published eight Kindle books, e-books. Travels with Patty mainly, right? Well, I found it almost a year ago on my birthday.

I found this huge teddy bear on the beach in Baye de Los Angeles. And that's become part of my life. And so far his family has grown to four teddy bears. Amazing. And they go with me kayaking or kayaking or whatever. So hiking, just return from the San Pedro Martyr, the mountains, and they were camp with me. So, yeah, bears have taken over my life. They're so cute.

Well, what's next for you, Graham? Where are you headed? Well, I live in Bahá. Right, you're heading back. We're in San Diego, so you're heading back soon. I'll probably head back today or tomorrow. And after that, I'm planning a trip maybe up north to Yelestan. But once the summer's kind of ticking through, I'm looking forward to getting back to Bahá.

If I go in the summer, I usually go up in the mountains now. and I've got great memories of the Parque Nacional, San Pedro Martia. That is really beautiful up there, great trees. Since we're talking on the cusp of summer here, it's the end of May, do you have some summer favorite spots when it's so hot in most of Baja? Where are some places that people can travel to now as the world is opening up a little bit? We're getting past COVID. I think things may actually open for real.

The Pacific coast is a big destination in the summer. as it was on my trip. But the mountains, it might be 100 degrees down below in San Felipe. You're up in the mountains. It's perfect. It's 75, 85. And if you go now,

like, I just returned. My water bottle was freezing at night. Wow. It was so high. It's 9,000 feet where I was camping or close to 9. And in the summer, it's, you know, July and August. It's a bit warmer. But it's a terrific old-growth forest up there.

Wildlife, animals, great hiking. I could just spend weeks up, which I have. I spent four months up there for my third book. I wrote a book about that. So, yeah, that's mountains in the Pacific. It covers a lot of Baja. All right. Well, Graham, we're going to leave it right there.

Thanks again for making some time for Slow Baja, and I really look forward to seeing you. in Baja for our next talk, where we'll go through the rest of your library one by one. It'll be like Johnny Carson. You'll just be a regular guest. Every other month or so, we'll be sitting down for another conversation with Graham

about where he's been and what he's written. So thanks again, Graham. I'll look forward to it. Thank you, Michael. All right, cheers. Have I told you about my friend True Miller? You've probably heard the podcast, but let me tell you, her vineyard, Adobe Guadalupe winery is spectacular. From the breakfast at her communal table,

the bookended to an intimate dinner at night. Their house bred Azteca horses, Solomon, the horseman will get you on a ride that'll just change your life. The food, the setting, the pool, it's all spectacular. Adobe Guadalupe.com. For appearing on Slow Baja today,

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