Slow Baja - Lance Gillies EarthCruiser EVs And The Future Of Overlanding

Episode Date: February 17, 2024

In today’s Slow Baja Podcast, we discuss the future of Overlanding with Lance Gillies, the Founder and CEO of EarthCruiser Overland Vehicles. We recorded our conversation at the Chicago Auto Show while sitting inside the new EV Hummer EarthCruiser Upfit built by EarthCruiser Innovation.  ECI is a new division of EarthCruiser that draws from decades of Overlanding experience, bringing together people and resources to nurture a culture of innovation. Their first project was collaborating with GMC to design and build an upfit solution for the all-electric GMC HUMMER EV. The future of Overlanding is here. I’ve seen it and sat in it. Enjoy our discussion about its past, present, and robust future on today’s Slow Baja. “EarthCruiser is a company of designers, engineers, technicians, and, most of all, adventurers with millions of miles of collective, real-world Overlanding experience. With its EarthCruiser EXP, FX, and EC Terranova models, EarthCruiser designs and manufactures the ultimate self-contained, 4×4 off-road, world exploration vehicles in Bend, Oregon.” Learn more about EarthCruiser: https://earthcruiser.com/ Get your Baja insurance here:  https://www.bajabound.com/quote/?r=fl9vypdv2t More information on Slow Baja Adventures: https://www.slowbaja.com/adventures

Hey, this is Michael Emery. Thanks for tuning into the Slow Baja. This podcast is powered by Tequila Fortaleza, handmade in small batches, and hands down, my favorite tequila. You know, I've long said it. Ask your doctor if Baja's right for you. Well, you've got to check out the Adventures tab at SlowBaha.com. The Slow Baja is from February. 23rd to March 1st. It's a slow roll from the beautifully rustic Rancho Labayota to stunning San Ignacio and back up to sunny San Felipe. We're going to have a one full week to explore some of my favorite places and meet some of my favorite people. We're going to have two nights in San

Ignacio and everybody's going to get to go whale watching. You know those gray whales in the San Ignacio Lagoon are noted for their curiosity and friendliness. So be prepared for them to get up close and check you out. And I'm proud to say I'm going to be doing a little giving back on this trip. My friend Matthew Schnitzer, the founder of Barbers for Baja, you know the great work they do, sending kids to college. Well, he's on board, and we're excited to launch our new project delivering desperately needed baseball gear to teams and coaches up and down the peninsula, and we will make our first gear donations on the Slow Baja. You know, it's not the longest, or the largest, or the most miles. It's the slowest and the best miles, and hopefully the most

smiles. Okay, for more information, check out the Slow Baja at Slowbaha.com. Don't be afraid to ask questions, you can always reach me through the contact link at slowbaha.com. And remember, the slow baha is open to four by four vehicles of any age. Got a two-wheel drive that you think you can make it? Well, let's talk. Once again, that's the slow Baja, February 23rd through March 1st, 2024. Help me keep Baja slow on the slow Baja. Well, hello, thanks for tuning in to the Slow Baja today. My heaping dose of gratitude goes out to Maurice Merrick of the Horsepower Heritage podcast. And he had me on a show a couple years ago, and we became friends through that process.

And he is my go-to guy on all things podcast. All the technical things, little things, big things. He's so dang professional, so earnest. And his podcast is so polished. I'm envious. I really am. I've got to tell you that. Anyways, Maurice had a friend that he wanted to introduce me to.

And through that process, Dan Kahn, through that process of meeting Dan. online, Dan referenced a friend of his, Lance Gillies. And I thought, well, I know Lance Gillies. Lance Gillies from Earth Cruiser. We were on the Baja XL together a couple years ago. We drank a fair bit of Fort Laezza on that trip. I think we solved almost all the problems in the world. And anyways, I sent Dan a few photos of Lance and his magnificent Earth Cruisers and sipping a little Fortaleza. It was just kind of a small world thing. But you know, these days, all you have to do is think something and then that chip in your brain that got implanted when you weren't looking sends

your phone that information and then your phone starts feeding you all the information you've been thinking about and dang it if lance gillies and earth cruiser isn't popping up on my phone and my social media feeds and he's in chicago for the chicago auto show so i got a slow baha media credential because i can do that now a media they'll let anybody cover these events and went down to the show, arranged a interview with Lance. We sat down in the brand new GMC, E.V. Hummer that he built an Earth Cruiser camper on. And we sat in the front seats of that thing and did an interview. And it's a little bit of the future of overlanding.

It's a lot on the past of overlanding. And it's a lot about why we have these adventures and why we do. travel and of course our mutual passion Baja. So without further ado, Lance Gilly's talking about all those things on Slow Baja. Yes, and we're even going to turn it on. So now... So be careful what you say now. I never do. But anyway, if you're not prepared to say it once, you know, there's a joke in there, but we'll save it for another day. Exactly. Hey, Lance, Gooday, mate, how are you? Is this all working?

I think it is, seems to be. Do we look official? That's the question really. Show everybody where we are. Are we at the place that we're supposed to be? That is pretty profound. As I adjust our video cameras on the dash of this Hummer, we're in an electric EV Hummer at the Chicago Auto Show. And you built this thing?

Well, not me personally. I got to, I get to work with some... get to work with some unbelievable people who like to do unbelievable things and yeah i just i'm just really fortunate i get to work with some really really terrific people so and believe or not there's a standard joke at earth grizzar nobody cares what lance thinks but i think they secretly do i really do nobody cares what lance thinks exactly same in slow baha nobody cares what slowbaha thinks I see, I disagree with you. Yeah, I disagree.

Well, Lance, welcome to the show. First podcast on Baja that I've ever recorded in Chicago. That's interesting, isn't it? Yeah, from a fabulous... Tell me what the hell we're in here. All right, mate. So what we have is a collaboration between tiny little company, Earth Cruiser, and GMC.

So it was about 18 months ago. GMC contacted us and said would you be interested okay so the funny we want the whole funny story yeah let's go we've got a podcast yeah exactly so anyway so story short there was I got contacted by somebody at GMC and said listen you know it was a fairly big name at GMC and said listen would you be interested in having a conversation about building a vehicle with us and I at first thought it was a scam and well what do you do right and so anyway first it was a scam

and I thought oh well I'll just be polite and ask a couple of questions and then come back no no we're a no we're quite serious and we'll send over some paperwork for some all the normal can't say paperwork all that stuff anyway so we did that

and then they said okay so what would like you to do if you don't mind is come and visit us at our, they have the most fantastic secret operations in Detroit. And we got to go to one of their design studios. And for a rev head like me, it was just heaven. It was just so good that, you know, again, no photos. It is all, again, huge company, but they were so welcoming and so friendly. They knew that we were deer in the headlights and all that stuff.

Anyway, they said, listen, so what we brought you here for is into the design studio, and you put on some 3D goggles. And so we're going to walk you through what we want to do to build some overland vehicles, and we're on a EV Hummer. And would you be prepared just to give us your thoughts on them? I said, absolutely. Anyway, and so story short, put on 3D goggles. Have you ever done that?

Yeah. So they build cars in through the goggles. So you can sit, you can walk, you can move and you get the human movement. It was just so much fun. Again, for a rev head like me, it was just heaven. Anyway, so we did all that. And they're engineered people and they're designed people. And again, they're incredibly gracious.

Anyway, and so they said, what do you think? And I said, honest opinion. They said, yeah. And I said, I think it's terrible. And they said, oh, we were hoping you weren't going to say that. And I said, yeah, no, probably not what we would do. And they said, well, what would you would do? And I said, well, and now we talked about a few things.

And this guy come over from the corner and he said, okay, yeah, you're who we want. And we said, okay, sounds like fun. I said, want to do what? He said, well, we want to see if you'd be prepared to help us, not help, wrong word, collaborate with us to build a overland vehicle on a Hummer. So you were saying electric hammer. Exactly, electric hammer. and we said we'd be thrilled to have the opportunity.

And again, so we're a tiny little company. I didn't know anything about dealing with a corporation like GMC. I mean, let's just keep it real. I mean, so we know we know how to do what we do, but dealing in that world was a complete mystery to little old us. And again, I can't say enough. They were so they knew that, and they were really terrific about it. So anyway, so the process of figuring out what we're going to make

and all the other stuff that goes with that, that took about probably 12 months, I guess, maybe 10 months, I suppose, before anything happened, or there was even a certainty that it would happen. And excuse my ignorance. Yeah. Are these things out in the wild? Can you buy an electric comer?

Absolutely. You can now. You could buy it. But when you had one... Well, then, no, you could not buy them. They were not released. That's what I thought. All right.

So you had a top secret thing in your facility in Bend, Oregon. Well, eventually we did jam. Yeah, which is kind of fun too. It was behind a black curtain and all of that stuff. And so you could almost write a book about it, actually. It was really very... How cool. It was.

Yeah. And the fact that they trusted us. Exactly. Is even more so. Yeah. And so then, again, you know, so fast for a little while, we have, again, I just get to work with some terrific people. GMC design team, they, in designing and engineering,

they were with us every step of the wall. meeting very, very often and making sure that the criteria that we wanted was it can't just be a concept, it's got to be real. I mean, you know, we're tiny little Earth crews are and if we build something, it's going to work. It can't be, oh, that's a great idea. That doesn't, that doesn't work. You know, this isn't just for SEMA. And we, we, you know, started with that when I first walked up. I said, hey, man, this isn't just for SEMA. This is for real. 100% real. You know, you can put your family in this thing.

You can actually go. Absolutely. Everything works. It's not, it's real. Everything works. And so, so anyway, and they, they respected that. And that was very clear. And at the end of the day, we, their part of it was very much the, what they call

the surfacing to make sure it looks right. It fits well with the vehicle itself. And crucially, that the Hummer itself, is completely standard. So if we can take the house off and you've just got a normal Hummer. So I guess we could call it a truck camper, but I think it's a truck camper that wasn't designed in the 40s or 50s. Yeah, it's pretty well integrated.

Exactly. And so highly integrated, you'd say. I would say, yes. Looks like it was born with this thing on it. Exactly. And so there's a couple of, there's the aesthetic part of that, which is important. But talking about the EV part of it, crucially important is that the two things that really hurt an EV, and again, the technology changes,

and we can talk about that if you want to, but on a basic level, two things that really hurt EVs is how much they weigh and how they move through the air, right? A flat battery weighs exactly the same as a full battery, you know, and so if you don't want to have a rolling brick, you want to be very efficient with your energy. And if anything, and as you would know, Overland traveling in particular makes you very efficient. You do pay attention to what you bring, use what you bring, because it comes at a penalty, either at space or at energy use or whatever it is. Is there one thing that I should, is there one thing that I'm bringing that I really should have a different thing

because I only have so much space for my things? Does it make sense? You're talking to a guy with an FJ40 who puts all those things into four, rubberized vinyl Czechoslovakian military backpacks that stack beautifully around the back of my car. I don't even have a cooler, let alone an icebox or whatever. It's like, you know, so yes, I am tightly packed. Is there any things that you take just because you want to take them? Oh, a lot of them.

But they're buried at, well, no, I'll be honest with you. I was going to be a smart ass, but I'll be honest with you. No, after five years of going to Baja all the time in my truck, all that stuff has been thrown out. And I literally on my last trip used something that I put in the truck in 2012, and I thought, I'll never use this ever, ever. But it'll be good to have in case of an emergency. Well, that emergency didn't happen to me,

but I had the two tools that were quite helpful. It was a huge big pry bar and a massive framing hammer. And I helped a guy using those tools who had been in action. But we've been down a path on the Hummer immediately, and I don't want to lose my audience. The reason GM came to you is an important part of this conversation. So I just want to start if we can

and then we'll work back to the Hummer. Can you just tell me a little bit? First question, is there anywhere you haven't been? Oh, there's tons of places I haven't been. I mean, we are, Michelle, I are incredibly fortunate. We've got to travel a lot. A lot, a lot. A lot, a lot.

Yeah. A lot, a lot. A lot. And I'm sure there's lots of people who travel a whole lot more than us, but we are very fortunate. We actually just came back from a wonderful trip through Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Georgia. And if you haven't been to that part of that part of the world, you know, the Caucasus Mountains, unbelievable. Georgia is supposed to be beautiful.

It is absolutely beautiful. It is absolutely gorgeous. Yeah. You know, I really enjoy history, and a lot of all of our modern history comes from there. European history comes from there. And so, anyway, so yes, so lots of places I haven't been, lots of places I still want to go, but I'm fortunate to have a seen a fair chunk of the world. What is it about Aussies and travel?

Is it because you're on an island? That's an island. Exactly, yeah. I think, and things change all the time, but I think it is because we live on an island, a great big island, great big, beautiful island. We've, most of the populations, you know, scattered around the either east or west, coast so if you want to get anywhere you're sort of already pre-ditch you're already traveling i mean the cities are roughly you know a thousand kilometers 600 miles apart so you're already traveling you know what i mean

and so and depending where you go the infrastructure may not exist at all and so i think there's a couple of things there i mean we you know we would just always go into the beach you know and camping on the beach that's just what you did because there was really not a great other places to go so Yeah. And there's a camp culture there. And obviously, overlanding started there with converting your vehicles into, you know, what I want to say, not campers, but sort of idealized, creating an idealized vehicle for longer term camping, I think, would be, am I right on that? I think so, and I think it comes, I think I've got a two-part answer, if you wouldn't mind. Well, observation, maybe not an answer. It's somewhat a progression, right?

So a young fellow like me, you'd start off with a swag, which is basically a bedroll on the ground. And then you'd get a tent. And then you'd get a Ute and you'd sleep in the back of a Ute. And then you'd get someone in your life and then go, well, this is fun for a little while, but now I want something a little bit better. And then you have kids. So it's a progression, right? And I think we can all appreciate that, which is interesting to me that I see a lot of people right now leapfrogging some of those things. And I don't know that's necessarily.

a good idea because I think one loses some basic building blocks like learning the alphabet and learning to count. There's a few building blocks that you miss out on. Humble opinion. As I said, observation, certainly not a, certainly not a fact. And the other thing is, again, traveling around in, you know, particularly North America, absolutely gorgeous, amazing places to go. But water is relatively plentiful, whether it be in the snow or the beautiful lakes and rivers. Australia doesn't have that. I mean, yes, of course, there's water in Australia, but it is not the same. And so when you think about how far you can go, it's not necessarily that fuel, it would

be important, but fuel that limits you, it's water. And every year, you know, the tragedies happen in the middle of Australia where people get stark or something happens with their vehicle they run out of they run out of water deoderation sets in very quickly and they perish and it's horrible so back to the observation the question is that the whole overlanding of taking what's really important and being really smart with your resources knowing that you can't just necessary you can't take it for granted you can easily refill them so I think there's a little bit of a culture there that rings quite true so does that

Yeah, it does. And getting back to that progression, money allows people to leap over certain steps in the process. But as you've been saying, that if you don't form the base of looking around to say, what am I sleeping on? Because that's the first thing you're sleeping on the ground. So what's going to get you? Well, so, you know, what's, you know, picking, picking the right campsite and the accumulated experience of, humbly rising through the ranks as you camp more, hopefully become more successful in your life, allowing you to buy a land cruiser or whatever the equivalent would be that you, the Ute, as you said, that allows you to sleep in it. And then you get the woman in your life. And then you're really fabulously successful,

which allows you to see you about an Earth cruiser. And how did you get there? How did you personally get to this thing that, you know, these other things that are on the market, aren't really what I'm looking for or I would like to make a better one or how did that where that come from because of that exact progression I mean Michelle and I met each other in a jungle in Malaysia so you know we're with those people all right and so that the different podcast perhaps but but at the end of the day is it you were on a rally or something right

we both of you were on a rally yeah yeah and it was tons of fun but anyway so so So the progression for me personally, yeah, is driving around and rusted out broken land cruisers and learn. See, this is kind of interesting, maybe. But I was driving around somewhere in the middle of Australia one day and the radio in my old land cruiser, FJ55, old land cruiser, the radio tape recorder player started to go slow. Now, most people go, well, maybe what's the tape? you know, you'll take, but whatever. When the reason they start to go slow is because you were running out of battery,

and that will show up before the alternatal light or the voltage light. It's a fact. Yeah, so your system is not working. So something is broken. What were you listening to on the radio? I would never clear. But it's just those tiny little things

that you pay attention to your surroundings because it may not be obvious. It's not irritating that the rate, that the tape recorder is not working as well as it should. It means there's something else going on. What's that an indication of? Exactly. And which comes back to my building blocks of, what are you doing?

So anyway, so for me personally, yep, driving around and broken down all land cruises and Nissan patrols. And we had quite a successful business in Australia. It was called Bullbars for trucks. We did a lot of work with big trucks. Anyway, and so another friend of mine also wanted to go and do some more. remote travel knew my background in vehicle body building which is what my specialty is and they said well he said well you know maybe we should try to build something and i said okay so if we're going to do something um michelle you in she said yep definitely we want to go travel some more excellent do not want

to go in a rooftop tent do not want to go sleep in the back of youd anymore do not want to tow anything so we want to sleep inside and requirements were hot shower a proper toilet a proper bed that you didn't have to make every day. And okay, my requirements were a decent four-wheel drive that was gonna be legal, wasn't always gonna be worried about being overweight. And so that's, so the journey sort of accelerated to,

that's where we ended up using the Fuzzo trucks because the wheelbase is roughly the same as the Land Cruiser, the wheel track, that's the short wheelbase ones, the wheel track is the same as a Land Cruiser. And so the journey accelerated to, okay, if we're gonna start to build, build these things so let's build them properly we went through the I know going

really fast here but kind of I appreciate it yeah is that we went through the whole second stage manufacturing process in Australia which basically means when we and this is where my specialty came in is that we had tons of travel experience we knew what a four-drive was supposed to have it supposed to operate but also making sure that if you're driving this vehicle not just in Australia but somewhere else in the world you weren't going to be stopped by the authorities and go that's a modified vehicle and it can't be here because that does happen more than people realize.

And so to do that, it must be, get the tick of approval by this Australian federal government, which was called DOTAs. And when the Fuzzo truck came into Australia, it was designed to carry rocks. We were going to go, no, we wanted to carry people. And they go, no worries, that sounds like a great idea. Now you're going to have to re-compliance everything. So that starts with the tires, the headlights, the mirrors. Everything in that truck had to be as though it's a brand-new.

vehicle and that's where it starts from and I think that's a fundamental difference with our little company is that we are vehicle body builders or vehicle builders not just upfitters or modifiers which is again is why GMC were interested in the way we do things because we could talk the same language and so that's where the journey accelerated is that we didn't necessarily want to have earth crews as a business it was more that we wanted to build something so we could travel in it and then it just so happened that more and more people go yeah that's exactly what we want and you know that was now 15 years ago but yes we've done tons of traveling in our earth cruise and we've had more than one of course but we've had done tons of traveling and I laugh and tell

people you know I had to build my own which is true so we went from literally sleeping in the ground getting eaten by who knows what to now we get to go to all the same places if we want to and be very comfortable. And so I stand, it's just a progression in life, mate, you know this, you know,

it's a, our standard joke is, there's no first prize for being the most uncomfortable outside. Right? You're looking at that guy. And now I'm just the last guy doing it.

So it's like a badge of honor. But as you said, there's no first prize. No first prize. I mean, sometimes I feel people want to break something and say they've got a story to tell. That's not the story that we're looking for.

The story is, you know, how well and, How much did you enjoy speaking with those local people? You spoke about it briefly before. You know, when you travel somewhere interesting, people actually eat to wherever you're going. Go and buy local.

I mean, make a feel of yourself trying to figure out what the labels are. Do that. It's great. Yeah. I was traveling in Hungary just after the wall came down, and I was in a little neighborhood cafe because I heard violin music, and it wasn't a tourist place, so it didn't have a menu in six languages. And I realized once I looked at the menu, I had no idea because of the acrylic lettering.

I had no idea what it was. So I, you know, got the waiters there, and he's standing there asking me in Hungary and what I want, and I can't tell him. And so I pointed over at the other plate on the other table. And he told me what it was. And I said, he looks, he shakes his head. And I said, and he shakes his head, yes. So it's pork. I'm going to have that because I could see it.

And we got to the first thing, second thing, and it was outstanding. And then I allowed him to serve me as his guest with his choice of wine, his choice of sides, his choice of desserts. And I was a celebrity because I was a dumb guy who didn't speak anything and the language at all. And I think that experience, you said it, I don't know if I read it or heard it, you saying how you remember things in moments, maybe not years. That was 1989. I remember it clearly. I don't know what I did yesterday, but I remember that moment in 1989, clearly.

Isn't it funny? Yeah. Tell me, again, you're at the, you've devoted your entire life to building these vehicles that will take people anywhere they want to go, in comfort, reliably, thoughtfully, you being the test guinea pig, you and your wife, Michelle, why does travel matter?

Why do you do it? why should people do it in this age where right here on my phone i can go anywhere in the world i don't need to go there myself yeah i think it i think you just hit the nail on the head right there is that you're you're not master of your destiny then what you're really doing well again that come across from is what what when we do that are we really there or we or are we seeing something the way somebody else wants it to be seen that's profound you know what I mean and maybe they're doing it better phenomenal and fantastic and of course we can't all be doing all the things we want to do I mean you know our lives stitched together by tragedy sometimes but

but I really do believe travel changes people and if we give ourselves a chance we learn a lot And I think travel means different things and different people, right? So even walking around Chicago, that's still traveling if you're not from here. Absolutely. Just jumping on the local bus and, again, making an idiotic yourself, it's great.

I mean, the last time I was in Chicago, I was here by myself. I was on the way to meet Michelle in Bend. And anyway, so I just jumped, I had a date. So I just rode around the buses with the bus drivers and sat up front with the bus drivers. We had a ball.

We had an absolute ball. It was just great fun. And did they become impromptu tour tour leaders for you? Of course. It's their hometown. They know this place better than anybody. And I guess that's what I'm trying to say, is you don't have to go anywhere remote and exotic to be this, that, or the other thing.

It's just be present. Just be human to the humans. Just do that. Be human to the humans. Just do that. Be human to the humans. Yeah, I think that, I think you hit the nail on that. head.

So we had a little brief conversation outside the truck talking about, I don't want to say kids. People have all the answers now. People have all the answers. Technology gives you all the answers. You can crowdsource through your Reddit board, through your various forums, through Overland Expo. You know, you can get all the answers. Yep.

to everything. Why go? Why go on your own? I mean, I just asked you that question, but, you know, what, are we diminishing the role of adventure now when you've got all the answers, when you say, hey, where do I get the water? Hey, where do I dump my tanks?

Hey, where do I get the tacos? Hey, where do I do this? Hey, and I'm only talking about Baja, because that's my world. But, like, you know, what happens when you just leave some things to chance? I really enjoy this conversation. Observations, if you don't mind. and observations right so so um talking about the EVs right so this beautiful EVs this Hummer Michelle and I we drove it from Ben to the Chicago show was terrific experience right and we're not

overly experienced with EVs I've never had one before so tons of stuff right we weren't really sure about where you could charge you how you could charge it what sort of charges are used all that stuff right but something that did strike me is that whether it be buying fuel getting water um of whatever type is that there's somewhat predetermined places where you could go. I mean once upon time you know you would buy hay for your horse or corn for your horse because the horse could go so far on a day. I mean that's just kind of how it worked and then of course it went on to fossil fuels and definitely going on to EVs. So my point is that

there is some things that are already scripted and we can't get out of it. All right the car's only going to go so far and so much fuel whatever that be so you are so naturally there's going to be things built up around that resource if you were well got it right when it comes to how one plans a trip I think we need to sort of break out of that pre planned pre planned system if you will that that we are getting programmed into because some of it just makes sense you know some of it you do want to make sure that yeah I can get water or fuel whatever it is it that's fine that's smart have it back up plan but that's your backup plan that shouldn't be main plan your main plan is go figure it out for

yourself you know what I mean is don't don't rely on others to decide where you should go the whole idea I think is to go and get lost for a while on your own have your backup plan very important don't be stupid don't do dumb things don't be don't be that idiot at 2 o'clock in the morning where you know you just should not be don't do that but there's nothing wrong with getting lost in a smart way and and rediscover things for yourself. We don't have to live rote. We, I think as humans, we are inquisitive by nature.

We've got two eyes, two ears, you know, just go and just do it for yourself. The whole idea that you can follow somebody else's track, okay, backup plan. It doesn't have to be your plan. Yeah, so I'm in this conundrum. I love paper maps. I learn to travel on paper maps.

Paper maps give you a huge advantage. Yeah. You know, you can see the road. You can see where the towns are. You can see where the mileage markers are, the gas stations, and what have you. In an era today with GPS, specifically in Baja, people pre-determine where they're going to go on their laptop or on their home computer. They plot their course. They load it to their phone.

They put their phone or their iPad in the vehicle, and then they follow this line forever, and they never deviate. And they spend their whole time looking at the screen in their car rather than the terrain of the dirt road. I mean, it's so important to look at the terrain. Or where they're going, or just being where they are when they're there. And how do you balance that? Because you're on the absolute cutting edge of all this technology.

yet your own history, you're at least my age-ish. So your entire history comes back to that other stuff of looking where the sun is, knowing which direction you're heading because of where the sun is in the sky, the paper map, all that, your progression to this land of technology, and we're in the most technologically advanced thing in the whole freaking world right now. How do you deal with that? How do you parse all that? Again, super quick question.

I think you do both. Michelle loves paper maps. She does not enjoy technology maps at all. We absolutely use digital maps and I think they've presented a wonderful world to us. I think they've probably done more for advancing more people getting out and traveling. Breaks down barriers. Oh, for sure. It breaks down barriers. Yeah, absolutely. So I think yes. However, if you've ever had the black source, screen of death and that does exist. All right. So we had a very well-known brand

mapping system. We're in Canada and we're doing a, it was just Michelle and I and our dog. We decided to do a month-long cross-country ski trip last December through Canada. We didn't know we were going to be the next day. And we were just aiming for hot springs and national parks. We had a ball. It got so cold, like we think it was cold, The very, very nice designed for digital mapping system, black screen of death.

Dead. Zero. If we did not have paper maps, we honestly would have been in real, real hot water. Hear that benchmark maps. Hear that if we didn't have paper maps. Yeah. So it's both. Yeah, it really is both.

And it also comes back to that. The digital maps are designed a lot around algorithms and all the rest of the most popular places, all the other stuff. And there's always going to be a commercial nudge here or there about, you know, visit this place, visit that place. And so having a paper map that can't be hacked, can't be influenced outside of where you want to go, I reckon it's fantastic. So I say both. Well, we're going to take a little break right here to get a word from Baja bound insurance. We'll be right back. Here at Little Baja, we can't wait to drive our old land cruiser south of the border.

And when we go, we'll be going with Baja bound insurance. Their website's fast and easy to use, check them out at Bajabound.com. That's Bajaubound.com, serving Mexico travelers since 1994. Hey, Lance, we're back. I think we were talking about technology and the roles that it served to have a paper map, to have the full technology, but what happens when you said the screen of death? And that gets me to modern life, you know, modern life. I can't put my phone down.

Like, I just thought, I was away last week, and we were. you're down in Texas, flew, you know, multiple flights, rental cars, this, that. I could not put my phone down, and I felt so frazzled at the end of a weekend, you know, of being on the phone the whole time. I said, I want to take my wife away like we did when we first met where we didn't have these things. You know, in those days we're on my motorcycle or whatever. But like, just put the phone, leave it, leave it, and go away for a weekend and figure it out, drive someplace with the paper map.

What role does, in your opinion, in what role does adventure travel have in the modern world? Why go down a dirt road wherever you're going? Why go to that market with the local people? Why risk that river in Australia for crocodiles? Why does adventure matter, man? Look, I mean, adventure means adventure. Adventure means different things to different people, right?

you know some people for adventure they just got to go to the mars or or bust right so it's all relative but i i i really really really do believe that again don't be silly but you really you really you know life is for living it is not a rehearsal it is not a um i mean deep down inside of me i just love to learn and i think adventure meaning different things of different people gives us a chance to make mistakes but in a way that's kind of okay to make a mistake because you are doing something new and when you're doing something new don't expect it to go perfectly because it won't and that's okay that is you know as you mentioned in Hungary and ordering from a menu you didn't

understand did you did you make it was it possible to make a mistake A huge, huge mistake. But, you know, I made some animal noises and, you know, how many things am I going to eat in a restaurant hungry? You know, it's going to be beef, chicken, pork, whatever, some fish or something, right? But we figured it out. It's still an adventure. I mean, you know, walking around a restaurant you've never been before and, you know, pointing at different food, go, that one looks good. I'll have that one, please, you know, in the best language you can.

That's an adventure. Anyway, so to answer your question, I just think there's something inside of all of it. us that we need to get out of a comfort zone don't be silly about it but do it go shop at that local grocery shop that you've in a new place as you've never been before then i strike up a conversation you'd be amazed what happens just ask a few simple words you know yes please thank you just the human to the humans right so you're not special uh we're all the same nobody gets a choice where they were born but we all get a choice how we're going to treat other people. So just go and talk to other people. Be amazed what happens. Yeah, we say

a slow Baja, we go slow and we say hello. Absolutely. And I think your experience of being with the bus drivers here, had you been riding around on buses in Mexico for an entire day, I bet one of those bus drivers would have brought you home for dinner. For sure. Yeah. And that would have been an unforgettable travel experience. Exactly. Well, let's get on to a few of those. We're in the second half of the show. You've built quite a community. I saw the Earth Cruiser community in action on the 2019 Baja XL. You had a number of Earth Cruiser folks there. Yep. It's great fun. How often you get your community together? How often you get the gang? Well, that's interesting. I mean, we've got a big Earth Cruiser gathering in March. We're

looking forward to that very much. The last couple of years, it's been hard to Kovie stuff. So again, we're in manufacturing, so supply chain has been really, really horrible and all of those things. So the last couple of years have been, have been difficult, that's for sure. But as far as our Michelle and I, about to spend some more time with our people, our customers. But the beautiful part is it's like-minded people. Our customers also have a strong community, you know, they're adults, you know. They get together and we've had some customers go visit other customers. in different countries.

I would think so. Yeah, and it's just terrific. I mean, they don't necessarily send their vehicles. Some do, but not necessarily. And some will have a car they can borrow and they go to a trip for months on end. I mean, so that global community is pretty special. And people from all walks of life,

it's not, might surprise people, you know, who actually buys an Earth Cruiser. It's not necessarily just one demographic. if you will. It's all sorts of people buy them and then it's great. But so anyway, so as far as the community goes, really important. But there is that draw of adventure. There is that. Listen, we've already done a lot in our lives, but we want to keep doing stuff, but we don't want to be uncomfortable. We want to have all that stuff. If the vehicle is too big, it's not approachable. It means we park on the outside of town. We can't be in town.

All those things. You can't leave it. You can't take your eyes off it. Yeah. So with an earth cruise, you just park it. So I've done that. You can park outside the shops. So I don't want this to be a plug for what we do at all. All I'm getting at is if you're thinking about vehicles, and if the purpose is to go and enjoy other cultures and other places, I think it's important that you get as close to them as you can with whatever you're driving. Yeah, so let's talk about the choices that one makes when you're going someplace.

Maybe you're doing an adventure rally. We met on the Baja XL rally in 2019. I think you had Michelle with you on that trip. So when she's not with you, she's an accomplished rallyer in her own right. How important is having a travel buddy? How important is having the decision you make to have the other person in the vehicle? Because I saw it in the Baja XL. People, you know, they can't stand each other.

They've got to get out in Guerrero Negro and find a flight home. One guy had to find a flight home to Hungary, of all places, from Greo Negro. That's a long start. I had to help him with get connected to this guy. He's going to get you to the station. And I did vintage, high-speed vintage car racing in Mexico, and people just can't stand, you know, the tension in the car. They can't stand each other, the pressure and, you know, friendships end or what have you. How important.

I've seen it happen more than that. How important is when you've done some major adventures, your equator trip across, Let's start there. Okay, so, yes, I was very fortunate. We did a trip across Kalamantan, following the equator, and it was a fantastic trip. It took us a month. I've got a little Nissan Patrol, a little diesel patrol, and I absolutely love it. And anyway, so, yeah, it was a great time, and a good mate of mine who came with me,

we'd done some other small trips before, right? And Jim, he had never, ever been to that part of the world, all right? So he was far happier in mega negative temperatures. And humidity really got him, whereas I'm quite happy in the hot, humid. In a jungle. Exactly. Literally. So a couple of things that has been, I think, is important, is that pack the vehicle together.

Might sound dumb. If it's your vehicle or if your travel. with somebody who's is their vehicle completely empty the vehicle 100% take every single thing out of it pack it together because what we are building to do what we want to build up is you don't want to you want to be you're a team right you're a complete team you're not i'm just holding on the steering wheel i'm just doing the map no you're a team and a team needs to be to make decisions under pressure and so okay all right we put an extra 20 liters of fuel on this thing this is where we're up to in in our fuel consumption

we're gonna need that is it full we both know it's full or we both know it's empty how much water we put in we both know exactly what's going on and crucially when when things something breaks all right and because in if depending on your type of rally depending where you are And my preference has always been for unassisted long distance where if you break it, you fix it. Nobody's going to come to help you. People always do, but you expect that that's not going to happen. Or you plan for that not happening.

And so having a team member that doesn't know the capabilities of the vehicle prior to going into a situation, bad. you are bad bad bad and so if if both people in the vehicle now the situation couldn't be we're not going to get enough ford or we're low on food or we just destroyed our last spare tire whatever it doesn't matter what it is but we go okay we don't have a spare tire anymore because it's just destroyed the last one should we go into this section or should we divert making those decisions together is different to what do you mean you didn't we didn't have another spare tire completely different so Teamwork, both understanding the capabilities of not only the vehicle, but vehicle mechanically, but also what you're carrying, what you have, and how can you deal with a situation that is inevitable to arise. And small, dumb things, right, may seem really, really incongential, but let's just say you're traveling somewhere, you're doing something, and somebody scratch your cell leg, right? Yeah, I just scratched my leg. I would tell you, by the way, I just scratched my leg. Not saying it hurts or not, but just important that all of a sudden if I get a fever in the morning,

you can say, we know that he scratched his leg and it's on the right hand side. Small things. One other thing that I learned was actually from a customer. I think it's genius. If you're traveling with a group of people is get some envelopes and put important information in sealed envelopes. So whether it be who to call if we roll our car and everybody dies. Seriously, write it down. Phone numbers, important phone numbers.

outside of the vehicles. Blood group, if you will, important insurance information, if you will, important registration vehicle, important, just really important stuff, so that if the occupants of the vehicle are no longer capable of communicating for whatever reason, somebody in the team does. Put that information in an envelope, seal it, seal it, and distribute those amongst everybody else. So you don't just do one, if you're five people, traveling if you have five copies so if something horrible happens open the envelope it's a simple thing i think everybody should do it and it takes a lot of worry away because again if there's a car accident and we've seen it happen particularly if it's somewhere you know it doesn't have great medical facilities

they get whist off oftentimes by the locals taking people to the hospital it's not it's not organized Everybody's trying to help. Then what? Then what? Then what? Yeah. And it can be just next door in Baja. Exactly.

It doesn't have to be halfway around the world. Exactly. So a couple simple tips, if you will. And so that's what we do. And thinking about that, of course, now you've got me, I've got a trip coming up here, the Slow Baja Winter Expedition. I'll have some people that I need to make those envelopes for. Let's talk about Baja.

Again, you've been all over the world. You were humble and you really didn't answer the question earlier about where you haven't been, but there are only a few. I bet you've been on every continent. I think so. Yeah, all right. So we're establishing that. We're letting Lance have some humility.

Tell me about Baja. I love Baja. It reminds me of Australia so much. I think it's just fantastic. I really do. I love the beach. I love the people. There's nothing I don't like about it.

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And so usually all you hear is bad information about Baja. I don't understand that. I think like anywhere in the world, if you're the drunken idiot at 1 o'clock in the morning, you're going to have some problem and you probably earned it. But that's my experience has been nothing but absolutely pleasant. You know, just phenomenally excellent.

So thinking back where we met 2019 Baja Excel, we did 3,000 miles in 10 days, a little bit ambitious for me in the old land cruiser. Your trucks seem to take it in stride, but you saw an awful lot of that place on that trip. Have you been back since? Yeah, a couple of times. Really? Yeah, yeah.

So you're still managing to get back there with everything else you're doing. Yeah, I absolutely love it. I really, really do. I'd like to get back there very soon, actually. I do. I just absolutely love it. A lot of our customers go there quite regularly.

I've, I don't really. understand the hesitation in going to Baja. Yes, there's police checkpoints, but they're always courteous. I mean, they're not looking for you. That's right. That's really what it is. They're not looking for you. Yeah, don't a big deal. So don't stress about it. Some people may feel that they're, I know what do you call it? They're, what's the word I'm looking for? They're being infringed upon with somebody else. Guess what? You're a, you're a guest. somebody else's not your country. Yeah.

It's their rules, not yours. Right. Right. And I humbly reckon one of the hardest border crossings I've ever been to, and we've known a number of times now, is from Canada into the U.S. Sure. I'm not kidding. We have been searched twice.

We had a little Labrador, and they put our Labrador in a cage while they searched the vehicle. Why they searched the vehicle is because we said, yes, we had lamb from Canada. I am not kidding. And again, they were very polite. They were very professional. No, not questioning what they were doing. But I didn't know I wasn't supposed to be able to bring lamb from Canada into the United States. I didn't know.

It didn't matter. I mean, these people have got a job to do. Respect it. But no joke. We were there for a couple of hours as they went through our little truck, top to bottom. Michelle and I sat in the room in our little Labrador who'd never been in a cage in a life in the cage going, what on earth is going on. So,

you know, it goes both ways. It's for your own safety, Lance. And I appreciate that. See? I appreciate that. You don't want to bring that lamb in from Canada. Unless it's legally imported.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm sure there's some very good reasons why the lamb couldn't come in. However, you're a guest in someone else's country. Respect it. Yeah, no, exactly. And I think that's an important part. Let's bring it back to the reason I'm, you're here.

You're here in this electric vehicle. Talk about a little bit your thoughts on the future of electric vehicles, their place and overlanding, and where you might be taking this one, or are you taking this one down to Baja? I would love to take this to Baja. Can I go with you? We should talk about that. Yeah, no, I don't.

No, I'm, yeah, yeah, no, we're talking about it. So, okay, so again, we talked a little bit about how we got involved in the first place. I think it's turned out very well. The importance of having back a step of having a vehicle that is as efficient as possible. So again, the way the camper is designed, the way it moves through the air. Again, the Hummer is a big truck. So we still want to make it as efficient as we can. So the...

Can I stop you for a second? Let me stop you for a second. Just to kind of give people an insight into how deep you go in your engineering and your thought process, talk about the angle of the exterior way. walls on your Earth cruisers based on the air blasts coming from big rigs that you've you've taken this major major hazard worldwide hazard you've taken this into account and designed your your vehicles basically to you know not take that full brunt well it minimizes it yeah it minimizes it so it's astonishing you'll you'll see on most earth cruises well all earth cruises but

the walls aren't straight and they're not straight for a reason it makes it way harder to manufacture them but two reasons one is trees don't grow straight and so when you're driving along a track and you're driving along on the hill if your vehicle's

straight you are going to be a good chance destroying one side of your truck against trees one you don't want to hurt your truck two by the way you don't want to hurt the trees the more trees and stuff that get damaged the more likely you're supposed to see a lock gate the next time you go on that same track

simple things. The other is, yeah, as you're talking, is that that angle works better on the EXP, which has got the raised roof than the FX, but still does work, is that angle, it breaks the wind shock from big truck. So yeah, on our truck,

I can have my one finger on steering wheel and pass or get passed by a big truck does not move through it. Not at all. Not what's happening in my truck. Ah, well, yeah, but it does matter. And all these things that they do add up. And that's what I'm, I wanted to set you up here to let people inside the level of detailing that you're going through.

So getting back to the Hummer and designing this thing from what GM gave you. I mean, it's extraordinarily well integrated. Again, it looks like it was born with this. Well, that was the idea. That's the idea. And I think we're going to see more and more of this from vehicle manufacturers, particularly we'll look back with that. The EV question is if you, go and put a brick on top of an EV you are going to dramatically reduce its capacity and

vehicle manufacturers are paying attention to that they don't want you know their customers not enjoying the vehicle and modifications done to EVs are going to look different to what they do with an ice vehicle where you can't just go and put a bigger fuel tank in it put a bigger motor in it and you know pay the penalty it doesn't work like that the the integration of what whatever accessory, if it's overlanding stuff, which is generally larger, but it doesn't matter what it is. I think we're going to see more and more efficiencies of how these things move through the air, because they're going to have to. You know, the price of electricity isn't going to come down. The price of fuel, we're going to pay differently to get to the same place.

I think that just has to be said, all right? I'm glad you said it. So we as consumers and manufacturers need to pay attention to that, and we still want to go to all the fun things we're going to do. Our world is going to move if we like it or not, right? We can vote on it, we can influence it, but at the end of the day, that train lifts the station a very long time ago, and it's going to happen.

It's already happening much faster in, I say, quote-unquote, developing countries and it was that it is in developed countries. You know, phones were adopted much, much faster in developing countries than they ever were in Western countries because you didn't have to build the infrastructure. So you built, why would you build old infrastructure for new technology? They're exactly the same thing that's happening now all over the planet, which is interesting to me as someone who likes to travel remotely.

It's probably going to be easier in the not too distant future to travel remotely in an EV that will be in a diesel. It's probably going to happen faster than we've realized. Wow. Anyway, so back to this whole EV stuff. Yeah, I actually see a bright future. I don't see a straight line. I don't think it's going to be perfect.

I think there's going to be mistakes made. I think all of those things are going to happen, and that's just kind of normal. I mean, that's just how it works. It's going to be economics driven, it's going to be consumer driven, but if you've had the chance to drive

an EV, they drive differently to an ice vehicle and again, I've got an old 1989 Nissan Patrol diesel that rattles and bangs and carries on, right? And so I like to have a driving experience. I've driven some EVs. I didn't feel, I felt

I was an occupant, not a driver, didn't enjoy it. this vehicle I feel like I can drive this car I feel like I'm still I'm still part of the operation now maybe that's a false um a false thing that they've done I don't know but I feel like I can drive the car the car's still the car some EVs aren't like that so that's important to me as someone who likes to drive I want to feel what the road like is underneath me I mean Maybe I'm, I don't know, maybe I'm something mentally, there's a problem there, but, you know, I want to know what's going on.

I don't want to be just told by a touchscreen that there's a rock there. I want to feel the rock. I want to know. So, so anyway. But conversely, you can have a conversation going down the road in this with Michelle or whoever you're going. Oh, absolutely. In my land cruiser, it's very hard. You're yelling at each other.

In your Nissan Patrol, even with the windows up, you're probably, you know, at an elevated volume to, you know. That is very polite. Yeah. And if you're of an elevated age, you may not be hearing so well anymore because of driving old lane cruisers around Australia. Yeah, yeah. So what I'm getting to is there's a level of comfort and sophistication in this vehicle. It's fabulous. Yeah, no, it is.

Is there a future where someone's going to be able to buy one of these actually at their General Motors, GMC, at a selected number of dealers around the country? We're working our way through that. That's what we want to do as a company. So we want that, if that's going to be what happens or not. I'm not sure. But this is just a beginning for us. We have got other products on the drawing board around the same design.

It's going to be very much designed for that vehicle not adapted to that vehicle. And so you'll see more of this style of manufacturing. coming from us that it again this is a future we think is going to happen it doesn't matter if it's an ice vehicle or electric vehicle or a hydrogen vehicle whatever it is the point being the more efficient we can use the energy that we have the better off we are no matter what that power source is and so I think the consumers still love to travel we love to travel but it's I think it's okay to be building our overland products that were designed in the 21st century to suit some beautiful motor cars.

Well, we're going to leave it right there. Best place for folks to get a hold of you. Best place for people to see what you're up to? That's earthcruiser.com. Mike, thanks for your time. I really appreciate this. It's good to see you again, man. It really is good to see you.

So let's get this thing down to Baja. I think we should. We should talk about that. Do you think Baja Proven still means something? Baja Proven? You know, that's on the side of the BF. Goodrich tires? I think so. I mean, it's different things of different people, right?

I mean, but yeah, no, I think so. I think so. It's not hard to drive around Bahra and see plenty of destroyed tires, so, yeah. Not hard at all. Lance, it's really been a delight to see you. Thanks for making some time for Slow Baja, and I hope we get a chance to get this beautiful GMC-EV Hummer with your Earth Cruiser integrated under the back down into the Baja.

Absolutely. wild someday soon all right thanks good on you take care i want a wonderful day we did it hey well i hope you like that conversation from the floor of the auto show on media day in the front seat of the electric evi hummer with people checking the thing out while we're doing the podcast um you know we do these things where we can i meet people where they are uh lance is great really great i can't wait to get that thing down to bah i've been really itching to do an evi trip to bahaw i've been really itching to do an evi trip to bah to show that it can be done. Just, you know, you're seeing those chargers popping up.

I'm seeing those charges popping up everywhere. It would really be interesting to have an adventure, have to hang around someplace for however many hours while the thing charges. Why not? Slow down. Let's do it. Can't wait.

Anyways, if you like what I'm doing, folks, if you like what I'm doing, hop on to slowbaha.com. You can buy me a cup of coffee or a taco and make a donation and help me keep doing the show. and I want to thank some folks who've been doing that this year. It's a new system. My folks who are processing payments over at Stripe had some problems with the old system.

So I had to switch to a new system and it's up and running. And thanks for the donations. And hey, you know, if you're over there at slowbaha.com, you can always go to the Slowbaha shop and you can sign up for a Slow Baja adventure or you can buy a hat or a t-shirt or some stickers or a magnet or maybe even a pin. It's all there. It's all there on the Slow Baja shop. And I love it when people rep Slow Baja and they tell me about the conversations that they got into when they were at the grocery store or the gym or down in Baja someplace. And somebody stopped them and they had a talk.

They had a talk. They had a talk because they were wearing a Slow Baja hat because that's the Slow Baja Nation at work, the Slow Baja community. So be part of it. If you're here listening to me, you should be part of it. All right. Well, I'm going to be back with something fun, but I'm going to go to Baja first and take everybody on the slow Baja winter expedition. So might be back after that with the next show. So until then, I'm going to tell you about Mary McGee's pal, Steve McQueen.

You know, Mary met Steve in a New Year's Eve party in 62, and Steve loved Baja. And he got married to come out and ride a dirt bike in Baja with him. and then she became a dirt bike racer, and then she became an off-road motorsports hall of famer because she was such a great dirt bike racer. And anyway, he's getting back to her pal, Steve. Steve McQueen, he loved Baja. He said Baja's life.

Anything that happens before or after is just waiting. You know, people always ask me, what's the best modification that I've ever made to slow Baja? Without a doubt, it's my Shielman seats. You know, Toby at Sheelman, USA could not be easier to work with. He recommended a Vario F for me and a Vario F XXL for my navigator, Ted. This Ted's kind of a big guy. And Toby was absolutely right.

The seats are great and they fit both of us perfectly. And let me tell you, after driving around Baja for over a year on these seats, I could not be happier. Shieldman, slow Baja approved. Learn more and get yours at shielman.com.