Slow Baja - Paola "Panca" Villaseñor Art Beyond Borders

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

Bi-national artist Paola Villaseñor, known as Panca, is from Chula Vista and has spent over half her life in Tijuana. After her mother's death in 2005, she moved to Tijuana, where she found inspiration in the city's creativity, nightlife, affordability, and danger. Her art reflects themes of feminism and humanity's decay. "With art, you work with your heart, and it can become dark when you expose your vulnerability, but it’s also pure. Art has been my therapy, my burden, and my savior." Panca's career took off with her solo show, “I Am the Architect of My Own Misfortune,” at Bread & Salt in 2020, accompanied by her first book, “Los Perdidos.” Her mural "Respect the Paleteros," featuring a distressed and melting ice cream cone, has become an icon in San Diego's Barrio Logan neighborhood.Follow Panca on InstagramSupport the Slow Baja PodcastSubscribe to our YouTube ChannelBuy Baja Bound Insurance

Hey, this is Michael Emery. Thanks for tuning into the Slow Baja. This podcast is powered by Tequila Fortaleza, handmade in small batches, and hands down, my favorite tequila. Well, if you've been listening to me for a while, you know I'm an absolute minimalist when it comes to Baja travel. But the one thing I never leave home without is a good old paper. map. And my favorite is the beautiful, and I mean beautiful, Baja Road and Recreation Atlas by

benchmark maps. It's an oversized 72-page book, jam-packed with details, and now you can get it from me at slowbaha.com. That's right. You can get it in the Slowbaha shop, and in fact, you better get two, one for your trip planning at home, and one for your Baja rig. And if you love maps and you can't get enough of them like me, let me tell you about two sites I am absolutely obsessed with. Eastview MapLink and LongitudeMaps.com, whatever you're looking for in Maps, it's there. From the entire benchmark collection to Baja Wall Maps to custom maps,

you'll find it all at longitudemaps.com or EVmaplink.com. You know I've long said it, ask your doctor if Baja's right for you. Well, if you've been hankering to get down to Slow Baja with me, you got to check out the Adventures tab at Slowbaha.com. All my trips are there, from my famed fall vintage extravaganza to my winter and summer expeditions, which are open to trucks of any age. You know, on a Slow Baja expedition, your meals are always included, which really does take the sting out of camping.

And when we get off the trail, let me tell you, we have the happiest of happy hours. If good dirt roads, private campsites, ranch stays, great food, and great people sounds like you're kind of fun, well, you've got to check out the Adventures tab at slowbaha.com. But don't delay. These trips are small, they're highly immersive, and they will sell out. And folks, just so you know, I am always here for you for your Baja trip planning questions. One question, 100 questions, the easy way to get me is Slowbaha.com slash contact. And if you'd like to go to Baja and you don't want to go by yourself, you don't have a vintage vehicle, my winter trip doesn't work out for you, I am happy to talk to you about organizing and leading a private guided tour. I've done it. I've loved it. The pictures are over there at slowbaha.com slash adventures. And you can check them out. And if you've got some questions, let's talk. shield man recording booth at Slow Baja Studios. Thanks for tuning in to today's Slow Baja podcast.

My heaping dose of gratitude goes out to Pauline, Marguerite Wickham, and her dude Darren, better known around Bahia, Dale Los Angeles, is Dern at Pauline's urging. Now, she's a Slow Baja alum. You may remember I talked to her a couple years ago. She's been itching to get me out to Rancho San Gregorio for some super slow. Baja Adventures and well we had it all set up

and she had some family business that took her up to the state so Dern stepped in and got me up to the ranch and introduced me to Mimo and Vincente, the brothers that are running the show out there and they just could not have been kinder. They saddled up Pachuco an absolutely beautiful, beautiful mule and led me on a couple of epic rides. Again, the first day,

the first ride I should say, we want to have a super steep Questa. And Questa is one of those switchbacks, ancient switchbacks, carved into the side of a mountain. So when the El Camino Real encountered something like steep, like a mountain, they would carve these switchbacks so the mules could get up and down them. And just stunning engineering. And we got all the way up to the top of this Questa, and there's this stone with this incredible cross carved into it. And the things should probably be in a museum. But there it is.

just out in the middle of nowhere, above Mimo and Vincente's Rancho San Gregorio. So that was super cool to see that. The next day had us rambling through the cactus, and Viscente was out in front hacking a path so that Pachuca and I could get through unscathed. And we got to explore some caves up on the sides of these mountains. And these caves have housed Cochemi for centuries. and, you know, matates everywhere, arrowheads, you know, pick them up and put them back down where where we found them.

And then lots of cave paintings, not the big murals that you're used to seeing, but much smaller works, much more intimate works, and stunning recreation of the local flora and fauna and animals. And anyways, the reason I was up there and the reason that Pauline's been trying to get me there So it's very tough times for those ranchers. The drought is there's just not enough forage for the cattle to eat. And it's calving season. The, you know, moms can't make the milk.

And it's just, it's tough. So the ranchers are doing their best to buy some alfalfa when they can and buy some powdered milk when they can. But anyways, I'd love to bring some people up and charge you a little bit so we could buy some hay for those ranchers. And if that sounds like something you'd be interested in, checking out stars that are bigger than I've ever seen in a beautiful environment that's, again, no light pollution, no noise pollution, just, you know, natural Baja ranching like it was a

century ago. If that sounds like something you're interested in, hit me up at the contact link at slowbaha.com. Let's stay in touch and maybe I can get you on a future trip with me there. All right, well, today's show, today's shows with Paula Via Signor, better known by her artist named Panka. Panka was born in 1986. She's a first-generation muralist, illustrator, painter, and she's fluent in creating art and life on both sides of the border, and that's what kind of drew me to her, or her to me. She was born in the States, grew up in Chula Vista, but now resides by choice in Tijuana, and we met earlier this month on a rainy day at Baja ADV garage, and I should say

Thanks to them for providing such a cool space for this recording. And to my photographer and fixer Edgar for setting it all up. So without further ado, it's Ponca today on Slow Baja. It's a Slow Baja podcast. I've got magnificent Panka here. Edgar, my Baja fixer, has made all the arrangements. We're at the Baja ADV garage. Check out the cool BMW behind me.

We're in a space right on the street here. It's a rainy day. and I'm just stoked that I'm sitting here with Ponca. I've seen your work everywhere, it seems like. Nice. All right, that was a good conversation. Thanks, Ponca. I had a lot to say about that.

Where have you seen myself? Most in San Diego? Yeah, so I'm from San Francisco. Oh. And, you know, there's a fine tradition of street art there that kind of got fired up in the 80s with Barry and Margaret and some other folks. Yeah. And I went to San Diego State, and so I'm San Francisco, San Diego.

And then my wife worked for a few years in downtown Los Angeles. So it seems like I've seen you in all those places, but you tell me. I know you're in San Diego. I know you're in Tijuana, downtown L.A. Or am I just making that up? I've done a couple of pieces in downtown L.A. I've shown in L.A. at a couple of galleries, but I've yet to really tap into L.A. so much. have friends and artist friends over there,

hung out with a couple of artists that I admire and stuff. But same with San Fran. San Fran. I kind of went and did some street art, you know, at the typical places where all the street artists go to and realize like in Oakland, you know,

it can be just as not as scary, but, you know, close to Tijuana. Yeah. Careful with that. But yeah, definitely had the experience. And then mostly Tijuana and then the last few years in San Diego. So I,

I'm very curious, and I'm not going to get into politics here, but I'm very curious. You born in the stage, grew up in Chula Vista, yeah? Yes, I grew up in Chula Vista. And that was just a time where the border was a little more fluid, yeah? Yeah, yeah. Can you talk about that? It was easier to cross. I remember even like super small.

We were small, and I think we had like a cousin who couldn't cross, and it was just like, hey, act like you're asleep. and your cousin will be like you and we and it wasn't even she didn't even stay it was just because we wanted her to be able to go to the party so it was just like eh and i hear from friends here in play is that they were just crossed to go to macdonalds and so it wasn't that you know and my parents were naturalized eventually like they got that so yeah it was a lot uh it was easier it wasn't yeah easier more open yes and we would get groceries every month yeah the the shopping went both ways though. Yes. People from the states from Tijuana, Chula Vista, I mean. Chulaquana. Chulawana.

Chulawana could come south and pick up the things that they were not easily accessing there. Yes. The things that you need. And then folks certainly in south of the border were coming north to get the things that they wanted and needed and all that. And now it just seems like that's a little crankier. Yes. Yes. My parents were from Mexico City. So there. There was a place called Commercial Mexicana, and it had a little bit of more of products that were from Mexico City in that area. So we always came there and did, you know, like the pharmacy, the doctor, all that was in Tijuana.

So it was just a one-a-month thing, you know, and then like sometimes parties and things like that from different people. But, yeah, it was a binational life. But also to Mexico City. I did a lot of that, too, a lot of flying to Coronavaca and Mexico City. And so school in the States. Yes, school in the States.

And then when did you move to Tijuana? I moved to Tijuana shortly after my mother passed away when I was around 2019, like in not 2019, but between 19, I get kind of fuzzy, but between 1920 or 21, I don't know, somewhere around there. I was kind of already halfway over here, but I was, you know, caretaking my mom and everything. And so after all that happens, you know, you know, I was kind of just kicked to reality, which was like an offend for yourself, kind of, here you go.

And at the time, the economy was terrible. Nobody was hiring anybody. And I would think I was a barista. And lines were long. De Juan was a very scary place, to be honest. There was a lot going on. It was a very beginning of like all that dark period. But, you know, when you're young and dumb and, you know, you're just kind of looking for that excitement

and you're used to maybe to the chaos in a different way or you're grieving and I was just like let's go. So I moved to Tijuana and yeah, that's kind of when it started around 19, 20, 21. Yeah. And I'm 39 now. Yeah, I was going to say, so what year is that? I'm doing, I'm trying to do some math. I'm guessing that would be like 2007 or eight. You saw the blank look on my face.

Yeah, I was like, uh, yes. But I find it so interesting having spent much time in Tijuana in the 80s as a college kid where revolution was. catering towards drunk Americans, service guys, all you could drink, cheap, cheap, you know, all the trinkets, all that stuff. And then in my opinion, I don't know if I'm right, but I'm, you know, my opinion, when things started happening crime-wise and Americans became afraid to go, that economic change with that business model, things changed.

And in my opinion, again, Tijuana started creating. creating space or doing things for local people. Yes, that's very much something that was, we were criticized. Everybody that was in like the artistic creative, because I was still like a little, you know, I was, I was a sponge. You're a baby artist? Yeah, I was a baby artist. Yeah, I was a baby art.

I was learning from the, you know, the better, you know, like Nordtech and seeing them and kind of growing from that and just learning from all the people around there. And I, there was a lot of criticism about like, oh, you guys are just parting these like really, dangerous times, like be careful, this and that, but now I see it in different eyes. And I do understand that it was careless and dangerous and everything. But I also understand that that was how we were coping with it, you know, like numbing ourselves and dancing and just trying to make a scene out of something because if not, you know, people were scared.

And that's when kind of central got kind of revamped because we just started to go to these little dive bars and things like that. But yes, it was, there was a very like, You know, it was very, it was, yeah, it was dark. But I think the, the end result is a lot more interesting for me now to go. It's much more interesting. Yes. Yeah.

So let's talk about you, Panka. Is that roughly translate to punk? Is that approximately? Is that, how would you describe what Punk? I think so. Where's your nickname come from? Your art name. It's a combination.

I had a friend. I have a friend that he gave me the name. And I believe that it came from. punk rock like it's the spanglish you know the way people say ah punk rock like kind of combining spanish and um and it was just the way i was i was just kind of like you know like very very just punk rock at the time my my way of being and so he gave me that nickname and it stuck but it also became kind of something that we said like oh how'd you end up and it was like oh al panco how'd you get in oh i went Alpanco. It was kind of like, it was kind of like, I don't know what other way of being.

A way of operating. Yes, it was a way of being under the radar. Under the radar, but also kind of like barely skating by, but also kind of like, wow. So it was a lot of things. And I think I just embodied that, which is weird because now it's like a shadow of my former self, but at the same time I'm always at. So it, yeah, it was just a friend who kind of saw that in me. And also it was a short way of saying, my name is very long. So I also wanted to protect. my actual identity because of all the things that I'm mentioning, but you know, I'm not going to write my whole name on the doodle on the wall. Yeah, so again, when you're doing art outside, what do I want to say in a feral nature, not sanctioned, unsanctioned art. I don't want to say illegal, but yes, unsanctioned art.

Yeah. You're probably not writing your name and phone number and Instagram. No. It was. So there was people that, you know, had, I actually just recently opened my Tumblr, and I went in there, and I said, oh, my God, look at all the people that were like, you know, people would take pictures in bathrooms and where I had, like, sketch stuff, and I were getting, people would be like, you saw my guy. It was just, it was so petty and dumb, and there was even, like, graph wars and things like that, you know, that in the end kind of impulse me to reach out to, like, bigger and better things. But at the time, it was, it was, yeah, it was all kind of word of mouth. because I was kind of like

roughing it I walked everywhere so I mean I had these chanclas that were like they broke once and I just taped them back together there's a picture of it somewhere and that was part of the bunca thing you know it was just like I could get new chankas but for that that was okay and I would walk so I would party walk and I would realize where people hung out

where people leaned where people would get the visual impact so I kind of just studied that and then I went to New York and I saw really beautiful murals by really talented artists. And that was kind of just like two different bombs went off in my head, you know, of like me having to do more than just party. And then me seeing this like these female incredible artists like Maya Hayuk and things like that and saying like, well, maybe I can go further than just, you know,

partying. And nothing that's wrong, but, you know, like I had this like this, this, uh, less to make something, you know? Yeah. So talk about that. lust to make something, to be something, to be somebody to change the channel maybe, or channel your whatever, the pain that's inside you, the pain from society, the pain from your mother, whatever that was that is driving your behavior to channel that into like, I'm going to be making

art and murals. And you created a super-recognizable. recognizable to me anyways, a super recognizable form. Where did that come from? You know what? I actually don't know. I think it came from the same pain. Like a lot of the drawings, when I look at it, I'm like, oh, those were definitely, not drug-induced, but they were definitely part of like the craziness that happened.

But I also learned that I didn't really deal with my grief properly, being so young, and being so just kind of alone in the world that I kind of masked it. But then I also, way later, realized that even the Banca thing, it had more to do with like narrow divergence and things like that. So it kind of all came together, and there was a lot of moments where things broke me, but they ended up kind of liberating me. And then the style was always there. It was just kind of, I had to embrace it.

I had to stop comparing myself to a very classical artist and realized that, you know, I was a little bit different just as I was. I think once that happened, I just started to embrace it and kind of go further and further. And I never really understood when people are like, it's so good. And I'm like, well, I don't know, but I like it. I like that I get to do this and I get to get paid and I get to do stuff like that. But yeah, I'm always kind of in awe. I'm not like, I don't know how to say it.

But yeah, I'm always trying to reach for something. But as long as I get to do what I want to do, I am happy. Can you tell me a little bit about maybe the first time you've figured out. out like maybe even when you were very young, you figured out like, I like drawing, I like painting, I want to be an artist. You know, I have three kids and my wife was never going to let the kids just have her iPhone when we went to a restaurant or whatever. Mom always had a bag of pens and paper and everybody had to doodle.

That's good. Not that I'm saying that, you know, we were consciously creating artists. We did get one out of the three who's an artist. But that's a good thing to do. do. Yeah. So was there a period of time where you said like kindergarten, high school, something like, I just, all I want to do is doodle on my notebook or what's wrong with Ponca? All she's doing is what's wrong with Paula? All she does is doodle. Can we get Paula to stop doodling and pay attention in class? Was there a moment of that? Yeah, yeah. I definitely had maybe two years ago when I was going through this,

I looked through all my grades and literally there was comment that's like she's a great student, but she's distracted and she's drawing. And I have drawings on the report card, so it's super funny. And I have a lot of really sweet comments from teachers that were like, hey, you know, you're going to do really great. Like, let me know when you, like beautiful things. But I think that since I was very small,

my mom and my dad gave me like a paint set from like Costco, you know, like whatever. and I really took to it. And I think they were just, they always gave me sketchbooks. And we were always traveling to Mexico City. And honestly, my siblings were older. Yeah. So it was like, how do you entertain?

There was no iPads at the time. And actually, I never owned an iPad in my life. So it was basically all these, I wish they were to cut them, but like so many sketchbooks. And I would just draw and draw and draw. And it was like my little secret world. And I remember being super little. and I was always with the adults,

and the adults were playing dominoes. But, you know, what was I going to do? So what I would do is I would draw on the napkins, and I would just slide them over to different, like my uncle or my grandfather, my grandmother, and just kind of like tell them, like, you know, draw them things. And they told me this. I don't really remember that much, but they said that's how you were,

you started since you were very young. Interesting. Kind of trying. I think for me it was like a third language. Because my parents were extremely Spanish, and then I was Spanish, and then once I learned English, you know. Were you the translator? Did you for... No, I grew up in a very strict household where we weren't allowed to speak English at home. Like, we were getting a lot of trouble.

So it was like the minute we came inside, it was like Spanish, because it was actually super disrespectful to speak there without my parents kind of understanding. even though sometimes my siblings and I would communicate. But for the most part, yeah, it was separated very well because they didn't want us to lose, you know, the Spanish because it was so it, you lose it very fast. Right. Yeah. Is there a spanglish component to you, your life and your art? Is there something that you can touch and say, I am this way because of that?

In my name, do you mean? No, and just your life, your work, whatever. Is there some, is there a spanglish ben? benefit. A Spanish benefit. I mean, is it, do you feel, do you feel it anywhere in your work? Oh, yeah. My point of view to be able to see both sides. Yeah. Because sometimes I get, I'm just coming from San Diego and having, I didn't really feel like I fit in with the Chicano culture. I feel more binational. And that's something that I feel is like a superpower at this point. I used to be very embarrassed of it. Oh, I'm a bocha. I'm a first generation. You know, I'm not really Mexican, but I'm not really

American at all. And then I kind of, oh, but now I definitely feel, I definitely feel more comfortable in my skin and being binational, it just makes more sense, seeing that half my life now has been in Mexico. Yeah, and you're living in Tijuana now. Yes, yes. So spent your

childhood years in Chula Vista and then now you're living? Yes, and three years, I just came back. So I was three years in San Diego, tried it out, not for me. But lovely city, but yeah. Good place to paint. Good place to sell. Wow.

Great gigs. There's, man, parks galore, you know, beautiful spaces. I understand, you know, why it's what it is, what it is. But maybe I'm the chaos. I don't know. I like Tijuana. I'm very inspired by it. It's like a visual, you know, poem.

So I like it. Tell me about your working life now. Are you out painting? Are you running from the police? Are you doing that? Or is it all galleries and commissions now? You know what? Right now, I'm battling censorship.

You know, anything political, you know, and with the meta and all that stuff, to be very careful. So I'm trying not to get banned on Instagram. So I've been selling, you know, prints. I've been working with different mediums, like light boxes and just kind of, I get bored and I just want to make stuff. So murals, I have a couple murals in the works. I have one soon.

hopefully this summer. And I've also limited myself because when I was in the U.S. because it was more rent, because it was so much demand, man, like I'm almost like, I'm taking a little bit of, I'm enjoying the little things right now. And I'm also hoping to reach out to a couple of orphanages or just things that are just not about me, you know,

and work and collaborate and also meet other artists that I've been disconnected from since I was in the U.S. So I just want to do a little bit more of that. But also, completing a mural will wipe you out. Yeah, it's exhausting. Yeah, when I did the Liberty Station one, you know, I'm not going to lie. I was, I was white. I had got COVID in the middle of it, but it wiped me out.

So now I know to pace myself, you know, like one, maybe like a little bit of three weeks of a break and then start another one. And what's behind Ponca? Do you have a team or is it? No. it. No, you know what? Recently, a couple of artists have posted their team, and I'm like, what? Like, you have a team? Are you freaking crazy? Like, this is amazing, no wonder. And I'm like, this is good. I mean, good for you. But at the same time, I'm like, I felt bad for me. And then I felt that's pretty cool. You're kind of an idiot, but you're doing it. Like, look at you go.

You know, but no, no, no, for real. It's so inspiring when I see other artists to have a team. And I'm like, that's very smart, you know, should get on that. But, But then also you have to sell enough to support that thing. Yeah, yeah. But at the same time, I'm such a lone. I'm, you know, I'm like a hermit. I'm a long wolf. I'm very reclusive.

And I don't do it to be cool. I just, I am what I am, you know, not to be like Popeye, but it's worked out so far. And look at him. So calm. Yeah. First video, first podcast for Frank here on my. Oh, my God. He's a good one.

He's a good, he's a good co-host. Yeah, thank you. But yeah, just, uh, I enjoying the food that I'm. missed very much. And yeah, I'm still in the process of reconnecting, but yes, there are murals in San Diego in the works. So I shall be,

I'll always be back and forth. You know, that's the thing that I'm very privileged that I can do that. And even though right now the political, that's another reason why I came over here. I didn't, I mean, I am a U.S. citizen, but I have dual, but I kind of did, I knew what was coming, and I said, bye,

I'm out of here. And a lot of people right now are reaching out to me, like, Hey, you know, and I'm like, yeah, I told you guys, I'm out. I would get arrested in like 10 minutes over there just like by defending somebody or by like saying something. So I don't even cross my sketchbook. We're going to take a quick break here. So if you need to get out of there and get down to Mexico, you need some Baja Bound insurance. We'll be right back after word from Baja Bound.

Here it's Little Baja. We can't wait to drive our old Land Cruiser south of the border. When we go, we'll be going with Baja Bound insurance. Their website's fast and easy to use. Check them out at Bajabound.com. That's Bajabound.com, serving Mexico Traveler since 1994. Hey, big thanks to those of you who've contributed to our Baja Baseball Project. You know, we launched our gear deliveries on my winter expedition.

Michael and Matthew from Barbers for Baja. We're along for the ride, and we got to deliver that critically needed baseball gear. Up and down the peninsula, it was really, truly amazing. And on my last trip, I got to go to the state baseball championships and see some of our alums playing, some recipients of the Baja Baseball Gear Deliveries. And congratulations to Guerrera Negro and Muley, the Ostonaros and the Cardinalitos won silver and bronze at the state championships. Big stuff.

And it's really fun to be there and fun to see them. All right, well, please help us continue this vital work. Make your tax-deductible donation at the Barbers for Baja. Click barbers for Baja.org. Click the Baseball in Baja link. And I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I really do. It is so amazingly gratifying to be able to give these kids this chance to keep playing this sport.

Keep them on the field. Keep them out of trouble. Please check it out. Baseball in Baja link at barbers for Baja.org. Thank you. I want to tell you about these new Rocky Talky radios that I absolutely love. heavy duty, beautifully made, easy to program, easy to use. We had 28 people, 15 trucks on the Slow Baja Winter Expedition.

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Rocky-talkie radios, rockytockey.com. Check them out. Slow Baja approved. Hey, we're back. Frank is totally relaxed here with Ponca and we're talking about, we're just back from, you're talking a little bit about getting out of there and you're living here in Tijuana now. What is, what is, tell me about the soul of Tijuana. the soul of Tijuana

I'd say that it's... It's the cool part of San Diego, isn't it? It is. They have a saying, it's like, the best of San Diego is Tijuana and the best of Tijuana is San Diego. But, you know, visually, people can argue

that, you know, obviously it's not a... If you compare it to Keredetado or whatever, you know, growing up in Kornavaka, going there, it was like, like, night and day. But at the same time, it has, it has its beauty. It's a dark beauty. It's not the kind that you right away look at and go,

but it's a multi-layered city, you know, because it is a border city, there's going to be a lot of layers to it that you don't see. And it's a city that will make you street smart or you will sink. And it's a city that you can't be in if you have like really bad vices because it will eat you up and spit you out.

And yeah, you have to be smart. You have to be smart. but it's received me two times with open arms. So, yeah, it's taught me a lot. It's a, yeah, it's a tough city. Can you talk a little bit about, we were just talking about the San Francisco art scene when we were off camera for the Baja Brown,

Baja Bound break. Can you tell me a little bit about being a female street artist running on the back streets of Tijuana? You must have some stories positive and probably some scary. Yeah, some of them. I mean, I was very lucky that I had another friend of mine that kind of recognized I was doing stuff and he said, hey, so am I. You want to go do it together so we're not alone because it was

again, like during the war on drugs. So it was really bad. And we kind of started to learn like the cop schedule, what times they would switch and we would go. So we would go and do, first we started with wheat paste. And we had a bunch of funny experiences of like, ah, running around and just dropping everything and just freaking out and having to do it again. And so for wheat paste for folks who aren't really understanding that, you were you were printing posters or creating art. We were painting them and then we would make this like goo. And then you're slapping it up on the wall.

And you've got to like, it's like you probably saw it as on a cartoon on a Bugs Bunny cartoon where they're painting it on the streets streets of France in the 50s putting up posters. Yeah, it's most terrible. And it's also, It's something you could, you made like pinatas with when you were in class or something. So we made that and I have a few videos there. But I mean, I have a few people that have admitted to me.

They're like, hey, I actually went and I ripped it off and I kept it. And I'm like, oh man, you have it. So I'm like, cool. At least you have it. Somebody has one. Yeah, there's a few because that's what I did first. And then after that I started because a lot of people were, again, at the moment, at that time, there was a lot of graffiti and street art, but not many female street artists.

So damn, I mean, I'm not going to exaggerate. It was a very misogynistic experience, and it was scary. You know, I had to walk around with a knife because there was a couple of guys that, they were kind of pissed that I didn't want to, like, paint with them, and I didn't get the best vibe. So they started to show up in my apartment, like, in the middle of the night and just, like, throw, just, it was a mess. So, you know, it was a mess. So, you know, anything I would paint, they would get there and just cover it.

So it was like a paint more. So I was going to ask you about that. How much did your stuff just get covered because people were jealous? Well, I mean, not all of it, but also something I had to learn is that's just like in Spanish, the word is ephemeral, which is, you know, it's just it lasts what it lasts. Yeah, it's a femoral. Yeah, it lasts and you can't really get mad in the sense where, yeah, the stuff that these assholes, I mean, these guys are going around. And basically what they were saying is like, like, like, just aphemeral. give ass or go home.

And it was like, whoa, like, they only saw me in those two ways. So it was, it was really sad. And, you know, there was a lot of people that were defending them. But at the time, you know, I couldn't really, I couldn't show everybody, hey, again, it was the very cusp of, like, social media. So I just had to make sure I was, you know, I had a, at the time, I had a knife. And it was just, it was kind of scary. But, yeah, it was basically because I didn't want to paint with the crew.

I didn't want to paint with certain guys. And, uh. And, uh. And you didn't want to be their girlfriend. No, I didn't want to, I didn't want to mess with them. They even, there was fights. I mean, there was like, they opened my ex, my exes like, there was a fight, you know, it was crazy. Things like that.

But those, those situations were good because in the end, a lot of those guys, either, one, everything's cool or two, some of those guys, you know, aren't around or, or they're in places where, you know, where they ended up because of the way they were. But for the most part, there's no beef. that still exists and that's something that exists since the beginning I've read interviews with Lady Pink and I think that was happening to her and it's just, it's very misogynistic and it's unfortunate but

the cool thing is that lately there's been more female artists but that's what motivated me to reach out to art galleries and kind of I was like, hey, I'm not making money off of these murals that are getting covered I love street art but I also need to make money so let's let's kind of let's change this up because I was

were getting really like, I mean, I'm getting paranoid and depressed, to be honest, yeah. And tell me about that process. How did it go for your first show? You're in a gallery. What was that? Like, I mean, take me through that. It was cool for the bread and salt one, the big one. That was really cool. But, you know, there was a lot of controversy because of Barre Logan and, you know, the identification, the owners, everything. But for the most part, I think once I met with a lot the OG painters from there, they realized I was Mexican. Not only was I Mexican, but I lived in Tijuana. I was first generation, and things kind of died down.

My mural was also big-time mural, mural and show. So it was like a big combo of things. But yeah, it was, I don't know. After that, I think it's when I just wanted to work on bigger-sized canvases. And it was a good experience to be, to work. work in that size guy. It's a scary thing to fill that kind of size room. It's scary. And believe me, you look back and you're like, oh, I should have done this, you know, but I've been in that gallery so many times that I've been able to do, I think, what I've wanted to do with it. So I feel

comfortable. And one more time, the name of that show and what year was it? Shit. Wait. Bread and salt? The place was bread is bread and salt. The gallery, and I have like five murals there, but the, the name of the show, crap. Um, you. Um, It's either... It'll be in the show notes. We'll get the research department on it. Don't worry, Bonka. I'm like, crap, I've had like...

And they're always weird names. Like, I'm the architect of... No, that was the last one. The architect of my own misfortune. That was the last one. Oh, why aren't you a normal kid? Oh, girl. Why aren't you a nina normal?

You got to talk into the microphone. Because no eres an nina normal was the name of the show, I believe. And that's just something my dad used to say to me. How come you're not a normal girl? Why aren't you just normal girl? So a little bit about your family, you were a younger kid, right? Yeah, I'm the youngest, yeah. So you were getting a lot of cultural influences from your older siblings.

Definitely. Yeah, they were Gen X. Yeah, and you were watching some of that 80 stuff as a little kid, right? Yeah, probably stuff I shouldn't watch. I was watching Weekend of Bernie's, like nerds, all those scary movies, Freddie, all that stuff, like at 3, 4. That was all coming in my head. I was traumatized. No wonder you're painting what you're painting.

Yeah, of course. And also at the same time, my parents would always go to churches in, like, really colonial towns. And I would see, like, the saints and, like, a lot of, there's a lot of that. Yeah, but did that stuff scare you? Because it scared me as a kid, you go into a Catholic church, and you've got Jesus, and he's got these open wounds and he's nailed up to a cross. I mean, that stuff is like, wow. You notice my drawings how a lot of that. Yeah, I was going to get to your, can you talk about the eyes?

Yeah, the eyes. What's going on with the eyes and the mouths and the noses? Tell me a little bit about. It's a little darker. I mean, the eyes, to be honest. combination between the saints, the saints, sorry, when I was about 10, we went to Tascal, which is one of the cities that we would go to a lot between Mexico City and Kornavaka, because there's a lot of silver and my parent, my mom would sell jewelry, so she would go to

get the silver. And we would go and I remember, wait, where we were talking about? We were talking about just saints and how that kind of informs your work, seeing these things It scared me as a kid. This town was famous for having a cathedral that was like really, really just very dramatic imagery in the saints. So I remember when I went inside this church after that, I think it was my mom said that that was when I said, hey, can I not have to go in there? And she said, yeah, it's fine.

Like, where did you just go because we're here? And I said, okay, because I don't like it. I don't like going in there. But also to mention when I was really little, we went into a church. church and I asked my grandma at the time. I said, what's that? And she said, oh, is Diosito, which she was trying to say like, oh, that's like God. And I understood Osito, which translates into bear. So for like the first maybe four years of my life, I thought God was a bear. So there's that. And the influence. Yeah. So I was never really like into religion, but

definitely that comes up in the imagery. And also, I mean, I've seen somebody, has away and I've seen certain things where maybe like the eyes, like the disassociated look or that kind of reminds me of that maybe. And also it's also just, I never forget people's faces, even like sad or good, but they stay in my mind. And I think that's what comes out when I draw certain faces, which can be very simple drawing, but the eyes will just stare you down. Yeah, you're, you know, as we've got some motorcycles leaving here of the Baja ADV. garage. So we're going to let, we're going to let, we're going to let those roll out. But then we're going to get onto decoding those eyes. The eyes in your, your pieces, whether it's on an

ice cream cone or whatever. The eyes are intense. Yeah, they're intense. They're intense. I don't mean them to be piercing. It's more just like, I like them looking through you, you know. Yeah. It's like, I'm kind of trying to make you uncomfortable, but not so much where you, you know, run away, but yeah, I definitely like the way the eyes stare. I mean, again, I'm from San Francisco, so seeing Barry McGee's before I knew who Barry McGee was, and I'd see these figures that he painted on like a roll-up door of a building or something, and they're so sad. Like the eyes are just painful.

Yeah. You could feel his pain coming through. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah, I mean, with eyes, you can, I mean, I think that's the most, the little, the little upside-down heart nose is just kind of something that just happened. I don't even know how that is. Sometimes, you know, there's a joke about like, oh, it looks like nuts, you know,

and I'm like, oh, my God. Like, even at the museum, they were making fun. I was like, ah, my God, I didn't see it that way. But no, it's an upside-down heart. But with the eyes, the eyes are what set the mood. It's really important. And I always like to add, you know, like that little level of, like, pain in there. The mouth is what directs it in, like, either a more,

playful or sinister way. So that's definitely kind of, there's three different little knobs there that you can play with. You know, it's like, oh, it's just a face. It's like, what? It's a face. But the eyes, even though it's just a little thing, it can look very different, you know? I've had some people, like, try and rip off, and I'm like, yeah, that's not mine.

Yeah, so tell me a little bit about which knob you're turning and why and when. Well, it's the mood. Let's say, for example, when I worked for the Children's Museum, I had to, I was going through grief for my, my parent, and I had to. basically kind of just learn where to put that because I was not going to paint that emotion onto a children's museum. And, you know, and that was hard to do. Yeah, sure. So I was very glad to be able to go back and kind of add things and change things because, I mean, something slipped through whether you want them or not.

So for the most part, I'm pretty good at just now, especially with clients, you know, with like brands and things like that. you have to know the mood the mood about it when it's my painting and somebody buys it it's kind of cool because somebody will connect with a feeling that I didn't even know I was sharing in that face and those people will then tell me a story and I'm like wow you really did get this painting so I didn't even feel that and then they kind of make me realize it's almost like a therapy session yeah yeah yeah art as therapy you want to jump into that at all how's that affected you. Have you been able to? I mean, I have a little bit of an issue. I mean, I know a lot of people that are kind of just assholes and they give art therapy. So I don't know about that.

Like, I'm no one to be giving art therapy, but part of my installation is talking about how art can help with our identifying our emotions. So I know that's a little bit different, you know. I'm definitely into art therapy. Like, I mean like there's a lot of people that give advice about therapy that I'm like oh man I know you personally you're a terrible person you shouldn't be doing that but yeah that was really more about how is how have you processed your own life through your art oh I mean if to be honest if it wasn't for art I don't think I'd be here I don't think I'd really be here because it's been an outlet that's um I mean one it's my only uh I mean I'm talented but I think that that's the one thing that my talent has I'm I am that you know what I mean so

So I feel when it comes to like my parents that are no longer here, I feel definitely that I pay homage by just being me and just being stubborn as hell and just do going for it. Because I know even though they were immigrants and they were like, oh my gosh, how is she going to like, you know, take care of herself? She's one, she's the youngest. Two, she's very different and not into the same, you know, more normal type of hate that word. but conventional type of living. So how is she going to survive?

And I kind of feel like I've found a way, but we're always evolving, always adapting. So, I mean, we never know. But your artwork is honestly just, it's an obsession that you have to deal with. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not an obsession, but it's like, let's go. You know, like I, it's what I have.

It's like my, it's like Dumbo and his magic feather. It's my magic feather. So I'm very, you know, clean. recently I've had to come to terms that I need glasses. I haven't been able to see that great and focus and stuff. And I've been watching French films and I'm like, oh, my God, my eyes. And I'm like, oh, my God, I think out of everybody in my family needs glasses. I think I need glasses.

So because I draw and stuff, it's just one of the things that's like, the eyes, you know, so stuff like that is like scary. Or it's a skateboard. I'm like, I can't do that anymore. Because if I fall, I'm going to need my eyes. My arm. Yeah, I'm going to need my arm to make that work. Yeah.

Hey, Ponca, where's the best place for folks to find out about you, find out about your work? Right now at this moment, even though it sounds, you know, lame and I'm not the biggest fan. But you know what? It's going to be Instagram. It's going to be Instagram. I like to post stuff there. I also have, there's a couple things that are cooking here in Tijuana with the gallery called Ben Night Gallery, which is who did the...

the light boxes and at the end of the year I will have a show a solo show which I haven't had since a very long time like during the pandemic my first solo show at the front gallery in san acedro so that's going to be really exciting all right well those will be in the show notes it's been a real delight to get to know the person behind this amazing artwork yeah frank's just chilling yeah it's kept me calm all right punka thanks for making some time for slow Baja really a delight to spend a little time on this rainy afternoon with you. Hey, thank you. Well, he did it. Thank you for having me. No, it's delight. Really a great. My God, I think he was like, he was like the, like when you put on like the spot music, I feel like he was that but in energy. Hey, well, I hope you

like that conversation. Panka. Yeah, she does some cool stuff. If you're down in San Diego, you've got to check out her mural at Liberty Station or she's got a big one in Barrio Logan that you can see from the highway. Really cool. Again, check her out on Instagram for when she has shows. She's got some coming up. And if you like these sort of conversations and me meeting people where they are and doing this stuff in person, you got to support that work. You have to. Best way to do it is to drop a taco in the tank.com slash donation. Drop a taco in the tank. But you can also, especially if you don't have any tacos, and I get it, if you don't have any tacos, you can also support the by dropping a five-star review at Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

And if you do that and you say something nice and take this big third step to screenshot when that review posts and send it to me at slowbaha.com slash contact, do all that stuff, review the show, five stars, say something nice, post it, screenshot it when it posts, send it to me at slowbaha.com slash contact. I'm going to send you your choice. And you've got to tell me what your choice is. Two Slow Baja shot glasses or one big old slow Baja enameled mug. Your choice, your reward for doing something you should be doing anyways.

But I'm bribing you to do it now. So do it while supplies last. Okay, I'm going to tell you about Mary McGee before I get out of here. That podcast, that podcast. That podcast that I did with her was pretty awesome. I hope you listen to it. It's on YouTube. Definitely watch her.

She's so fun. But her movie Motorcycle Mary made by Haley Watson is now nominated for an Emmy, which is so cool. But Mary had a friend, Steve McQueen. Nobody's cooler than Steve McQueen. Nobody is cooler than Steve McQueen. And he loved Baja. And he said, you know, Mary, you've got to get off your pansy road racer. Get out into the desert and ride dirt bikes with me.

And she did. And that led to all sorts of things, including off-road motorsports Hall of Fame. But back to Super Cool Steve McQueen. And then he said, hey, Mary, Baja is life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting. You know, people always ask me, what's the best modification that I've ever made to slow Baja? Without a doubt, it's my Shielman seats. You know, Toby at Shieldman USA could not be easier to work with.

He recommended a vario F for me and a vario F xXL for my navigator, Ted. His Ted's kind of a big guy. And Toby was absolutely right. The seats are great and they fit both of us perfectly. And let me tell you, after driving around Baja for over a year on these seats, I could not be happier. Shieldman, slow Baja approved. Learn more and get yours at shielman.com.

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