Small Town Murder - #102 - A Troubled & Troubling Past in Red Springs, North Carolina

Episode Date: January 17, 2019

This week, in Red Springs, North Carolina, a man with a long history of violent behavior goes way too far, and a young g woman ends up dead, sending the town into a panic, because this isn't the only recent murder of a young woman. The question is, how many more are there? Is he being railroaded, or have his actions railroaded others? This one has twists, all the way to the very end!!Along the way, we find out that swap meets are 90 percent confederate memorabilia, how the department of corrections isn't always so good at correcting, and that some people are just plain evil!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Red Springs, North Carolina, the murders of two local women send the town into a panic. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us again on another exciting, crazy edition of Small Town Murder. We have a real wild, crazy case for you this week. This is one of those where you definitely need

to hear the whole thing. Yeah. Because it's going to twist on you at the end. You're going to go, God damn it. I can't wait. It's one of those.

It's going to be a lot, a lot of fun. Thank you, everybody, first of all, at the house cleaning out of the way. Thank you, first of all, for all of your reviews this week.

We saw a thing that we were the number two most reviewed podcast on iTunes. For 2018. For 2018. And that is all, you guys. Thank you guys so goddamn much for that. For a show like ours, which we're not the biggest, we're not famous, we're not, like

we've said before, we're not journalists, we don't have a big, giant conglomerate behind us or anything like that. For that, that just shows grassroots it's all you guys and that's that's all you need you don't need to have you don't need to have nbc have your podcast or npr bbc or anything like that you just need to have people that are awesome that are willing to listen to your podcast so goddamn podcast audience in the world thank you guys for that if you haven't done it yet please get get on that and give us a review. Five stars would be wonderful. iTunes or wherever you listen

to podcasts. It doesn't matter. Do that. It doesn't matter what you say. It's not for our ego. It's really not. It is just to drive us up the charts and that's how that works. So thank you guys who have done that. Also you can do that very easily if you just go over to shut up and give me murder.com

where that is very possible to do all those things. You can review. You can follow us on social media. You can buy all the merchandise that you want. Everything small-town murder and crime and sports related. You can get tickets to live shows. That's going to be so great. My goodness, you should do that, like the one coming up January 25th at the Neptune

in Seattle. We will be there. So please come out to that show. You better hurry. Those tickets are going so fast. They're going fast. Also, February 21st down in West Palm Beach, Florida, at the West Palm Improv.

Another one. Sweet Club. Get down there. Yeah, get on those tickets, please. Get those. Also, you can do another thing there that's wonderful that we'll talk about later on. Oh, those guys.

Our list of fabulous, fantastic producers. They're amazing. You you can do that you can follow the links right from our site if you want go over to patreon.com slash crime in sports or go over to paypal use our email address which is crime in sports at gmail.com and if i can emphasize one thing to you it is listen to crime and sports uh please listen to crime and sports. We're not telling you this because we're trying to sell you some other crap. It's if you like small town murder, I can pretty much guarantee you're going to like crime and sports. Probably more. As a matter of fact, it doesn't matter.

You do not have to like sports. Again, I can't emphasize that enough. It's really not about the sports. If you don't like sports, you're going to enjoy what these idiots did. And then if you do, that's what I mean it's it whether you like sports or not it does not matter just happens to be people that's what they did for a living and then they turned into assholes at some point so uh go ahead and listen to that uh with all of that said uh yes i do have to give the disclaimer at this point please good god here uh this is a comedy podcast you knew it

yes we're comedians we're stand-up comics this is what we do we make jokes the stories are real Disclaimer at this point. Please, good God, here. This is a comedy podcast. You knew it. We're comedians. We're stand-up comics. This is what we do. We make jokes. The stories are real. That I can assure you. Everything we're about to say, it's all facts, things like that. We do our best to make sure that all of that comes out as factually correct as humanly possible.

We do not make things up for jokes or anything like that. But we do make jokes. We make jokes about small towns because everyone's from a small town and they all suck. So we're going to make fun of that, everybody's weirdness. We're going to make fun of things around a murder, maybe a bumbling police force, people who screwed up. Maybe we'll make fun of the murderer. Gee, that's a, you know, obviously, that's our novel. It's our only recourse as comedians.

We have nothing else. I can't put these people in jail. They deserve it. They deserve to be mocked. But what we try to do, we go out of our way to do, is to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's how this works. We're just trying to have a good time and stay within the parameters of that.

It's a lot of fun. And if that sounds good to you, then we are going to have a blast. Welcome aboard. This is going to be great. If that does not sound good to you, you should go now. Because basically, we are in a big car right now. And it's the same thing. We're on our way to the liquor store.

That's the way this works here. And we're going to rob the liquor store. Now, if somebody should accidentally spray the little woman behind the counter's brains all over the Marlboro cartons and plastic vodka bottles behind the counter, we're all responsible at that point. Every one of us. Doesn't matter if you wanted to do that or not. You don't even have to hold the pistol.

That's right. So no bitching afterwards is what we're saying. So if that sounds good to you, we're going to have fun, and I think it's time to shout it out from the rooftops or the cubicles or wherever the hell you are out of your car window. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. All right.

Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. All right. What do you say? You ready to roll? You got all your shit packed? Yeah. Bring your phone chargers. You got your ass wiped?

I got everything. Yeah. Somebody sent us bidets, which is hilarious. Bidet attachments. Best joke ever. It's hilarious. Jimmy made a joke about having a hairy ass. The next thing you know, he's got bidets. So there we go, everybody.

Terrific. Thank you. That's why you guys are the best. Yeah. That's why you're the best audience in podcasting. You really care. That's the thing. Not about just the show.

No. You care about my ass. You care about a very... Very thoughtful. Very distinctive. Very clear part of Jimmy's anatomy you guys are really interested in. And both of us. You sent us both bidets.

So thank you. Thank you for caring about our buttholes. They don't leave you out. They don't leave me out when they get you shit. No, they're wonderful people. Well, we're going on a trip all the way. Last week we came down from Long Island with a... Oh, boy.

Wow, that was a crazy case. Yeah, that was interesting. It was a movie. It should be. I don't even know. It's too silly to be even a movie. It has to be a comedy. That could not be a serious film.

Not like Masterminds with Zach Galifianakis. Yeah, it's got to be like some silly farce, like weird Coen Brothers movie. Masterminds is a true story that they just like mocked up and made it stupid. That thing could be the same way. But you don't have to fake anything. No. Just those people. Just the real shit.

Yeah. Well, this week we're going down to Red Springs, North Carolina. Oh. Oh, so we're going down south. Okay. We're going. And this is deep, too. Red Springs.

Red Springs, North Carolina. It's in South Central North Carolina, near the South Carolina border. I will never hear South Central and not think of Dr. Dre. It's South Central. No, this is a rural area, to say the least. This is where North Carolina kind of goes south, heads southward and cuts into South Carolina. It's kind of in that little triangle, almost a panhandle. Damn near, huh? Damn Almost a panhandle. Damn near, huh?

Damn near a panhandle here. It's two hours to Charlotte, about three and a half hours to Raleigh, North Carolina, and about three and a half hours to Gatesville, which is our first episode in North Carolina, episode 46. Do I remember that? No. No. Do I remember that?

Not at all. No. As a matter of fact, that is the first time hearing of gatesville you heard about it for about two hours at one point in time i'm gonna say about a year ago right around a year ago right there right around 57 weeks ago yeah you're also doing a crime in sports that week and uh that's the other point that's the problem people bring these episodes up to me and i forget them and i'm just like i don't know if we did that and then they're like no no it was this episode i was like oh you're telling me about my podcast yeah oh yeah that's right

uh i thought you were giving us the new case yeah it's a damn good thing you specified that before i look like a complete dipshit like oh write it down back to jay like we did that stupid hey dummy we did that one already i'd rather look like a dipshit in front of you guys when I don't see you, but every, I don't know, however long it takes me to get back to your town. I see James every six fucking days. I get stumped every once in a while at a live show. They'll talk about a specific detail of something that we talked about like a year ago, and I'm like, oh, we've done 100 podcasts since then.

I don't remember that at all. And multiply that by two. Oh, okay, so you're doing a year ago this is in robeson county okay uh zip code 28377 area code 910 uh it is 3.67 square miles this town so it's not a big town it's it's pretty rural like we said town motto here uh this is a very apt town motto, actually. Motto, quote, don't let that north fool you. So I think they're letting you know.

That's just in relation to the south of Carolina. That has nothing to do with our actual thought process. I've spent time in North Carolina. Of the border doesn't mean shit. No. My dad lived in North Carolina for a while, and I was there for like a month. And that's my only long-term southern exposure. And I'm sure it's great for people, whatever.

But it's weird if you're not from there. It's just different. Culture shock. It's a culture shock. Because there is none. And this was, oh, there's a culture. Well, no, there's a heritage, let's was oh there's a culture well no there's a heritage let's say more of more than a culture when you go to the swat meet and literally two-thirds of the booths

sell nothing but confederate memorabilia you're like where the fuck am i what happened where did i go yeah it's just different i mean you're used to it if you're there nobody looks twice at it but for me coming from just straight out of new York, I was like, this is weird. This is weird. So, yeah, it's a different kind of culture. And that was in Raleigh, which is the capital of the goddamn state. The most metropolitan. Well, probably Charlotte, but it's close.

There's a million colleges. It's a highbrowish area. There's all the colleges are right there and everything like that. It should be the most cosmopolitan because it's got the capital. It's got the capital. There's a lot of tech shit going on down there. But it's also still, you know, right outside of everything. It gets real redneck real fast. And this place is rural, let's just say.

Now, Red Springs, it's founded in 1775 by a guy named Sailor Hector McNeil. I'm not sure if his given name is Sailor or not, or if they just call him Sailor Hector McNeil. It's not ever known. He's just known as Sailor Hector. Everybody knows him as. I like that he's got such an Irish last name. McNeil. Ripped right apart with that.

With Hector? Yeah. Yeah. It apart with that. With the Hector? Yeah. Yeah. It's an odd. Sailor Hector. Right. I guess, I don't know. He used it.

They said, they don't know if it's a nickname or not, but he used it in the county tax lists of 1771. Interesting. He put himself as Sailor Hector McNeil. So it might be his given name for all the fuck we know. Or he really- He just embraced it. He really embraced it.

He started wearing a sailor hat. Started calling everybody matey. Gouged out an eye on purpose. He's got a parrot for no reason. What's up with him and his parrot? He had it for a day and it flew away. He didn't know to clip it. We're nowhere near the ocean.

We're inland. This is weird. This is farmland around here. So yeah, I guess he was one of the main settlers here his home was at the top of a hill on the edge of the mcneil cemetery in town and he and his wife mary are buried there in unmarked graves which i don't know why they're unmarked i don't know if that was just the style of the time or what but do you think they were the fucking cemetery is named after them his headstone is just basically the gates yeah mcneil it's right there maybe they put them in just like

the spot of that's where the first plot is i don't know or they just buried him they're like we're gonna fill this up one day and one day we're gonna run across him then we'll mark it we'll know where we'll find him eventually they're over here. Right. We know that. Everybody else will bury around here. That is very bizarre. Why an unmarked grave? I don't know why an unmarked grave. I don't know what that is, an unmarked thing in their own cemetery. Yeah.

You think people are going to loot your grave, bro? I don't know. And I don't think so. I think it's, I don't know. I don't know if that's like a sign of respect. Like, they don't need. Yeah. They don't need all the attention in the afterlife.

They don't need that, right? I've had plenty in this life. You know who's buried there. Right. You'm saying one of those deals maybe like it's maybe so important that there's like he's we know exactly where or maybe he's just the first two people to die and they're like i don't know put them there over in that empty lot we should put oh headstones okay put everybody in there hey where'd you put that one guy i don't remember rather than just bury people in our own yards, why don't we bury them all together? That'd be a good idea.

We can put them where we put that McNeil fellow. We'll just call it McNeil. And the first cemetery was born. That's not a fact, by the way. Not a fact at all. Not even close. We would like it to be. That would be amazing. So the town's name comes from the red pigment found in the local mineral springs.

I thought you were going to say in the local necks. In the local necks. In the local swap meat vendors. So they say the medicinal value of the springs made this place a center of pop. People came here as for like a resort. So we've seen this a lot. Like a lot of towns started out because they had a spring and people just thought if water came out of the earth yeah then it must be good for you to sit in and you need to travel there for that back then we've gone away from that it's very

sedona yeah it's very sedona like there was a shitload of sedona's the only difference is sedona is still happening and it's beautiful well sedona is very pretty that's what keeps it going yeah if it wasn't so pretty people be like these fucking weirdos up there but it's so. Well, Sedona is very pretty. That's what keeps it going. If it wasn't so pretty, people would be like, these fucking weirdos up there. But it's so pretty, people put up with it. Like, yeah, there's a bunch of rock shit and aliens and all that crap, but the mountains are gorgeous. If the mountains weren't red, nobody would give a fuck. They wouldn't care. They just look like the outside of Phoenix at that point.

It's just brown and green trees. No one would give a shit. Nobody cares. So, yeah, people, this drew attention here. Brown and green trees. No one would give a shit. Nobody cares. So, yeah, people, this drew attention here. Now, in 1852, Malcolm McNeil, who was the grandson of old sailor Hector, he built a hotel, which was in the center of town.

And that ended up being replaced by the Townsend Hotel in 1891, which was there a long time. The Lumber Bridge Military Company took part in the festive july 4th opening of mcneil's hotel they had a big giant and explosions and fireworks and the whole deal yeah so that's a it's a military company it's a yeah the lumber bridge military company okay i don't know if that's a company of guys calling themselves the lumber bridge okay i doubt it's a a lumber company that also was a military outfit that also was a military outfit that would be a very odd or it might have been because back then they used to call units from towns and shit like that was how the military company your your town put together a unit right

so it might have been they might have called themselves a lumber bridge or shit like which is nice that way all the town's young boys can die at once yeah if it's a slaughter which is what would happen yeah if a battle over you lost a battle it was all the young men died it's like okay that's a silly idea yeah maybe we should have spread them out more evenly you ever think of that all our guys at once together i think that's what in world war ii that's why they didn't do that they just take whole towns and put them in places they didn't they spread them out a little bit yeah put a couple dudes over there but back then that's how they had to train you know you had to that was easier and you'd think more times i mean just in the common sense thought process it'd probably be easier for me to fight with you than it would be for me to fight with

some other stranger you know yeah yeah yeah like i mean like be on the same team as and fight go somewhere yeah yeah i'd rather fight with you because i'd i'd actually give a shit whether or not you got shot well back then too it would be like a lot of times would be like the school principal would be the he would run the unit yeah he would be the guy who ran the unit would be it'd be a bunch of his students that were you know seniors and they would come and then you know that's how it would be or like yeah it was weird or like a guy who ran a local business would put together a fighting unit like it was the weirdest shit civil war is the weirdest shit i love the civil war it's crazy that's why it was so devastated they probably ended up resorting to that stuff right that wasn't like the first move no no that's how they started putting together started putting together regiments

like people would put together a regiment they'd say i'm i'm fielding a regiment that's how they would do it that sounds like like the last straw you know like the last resort well they would have huge calls too but in small, you couldn't do that. So they'd get all these units from these towns. In New York City, let's say they'd have a big recruitment call and thousands of guys would come. That would be a different story. But still, it would be guys from there. So they would all get kind of sent out together.

They would form different units in different areas. And that's all over the country, was insane as we know here uh so a letter uh uh from the uh from the from the area here uh from someone who was living in mississippi who went to visit there mentions that red springs also had a store at that point so oh boy they had water and a store and a hotel you can buy shit buy shit and sleep. And bathe. And bathe. Fuck out of here. This fucking will be here forever. Paradise. So they had it in 1887.

They incorporated. Before that, too, they had different names to the town. They called it Dora for a while for some reason. We're not sure why. There were explorers there? They couldn't figure. Yeah, they couldn't figure. There's a lot of little girls with backpacks wandering around.

I'm not sure how that happened. Talking maps and figure. Yeah, they couldn't figure. There's a lot of little girls with backpacks wandering around. I'm not sure how that happened. Talking maps and shit. Yeah. In 1852, they built the frame of a school building near the hotel. And they didn't actually have it as only a school. For the next 40 years, they also had a ton of religious meetings there. So it was like religious meetings in school. And then the North Carolina Military Academy opened in 1899 in that building

and uh that was uh you know male students obviously for the military academy back then then they opened the red springs seminary as a female seminary then it was renamed the flora mcdonald college in 1914 to honor the scottish heroine who helped the Bonnie Price or the Bonnie Prince Charlie escape the Stuart uprising in Scotland. Oh, there's a lot of Scottish shit here. Apparently, there's this like a lot of Scottish. They landed there. It's just I don't understand it here.

The Flora McDonald Academy is a K through 12 college prep private school now. So it's that's what that is. It's a fancy schmancy private school. And it's not religious anymore? I don't think so, but it might be. It's private, so who the fuck cares? Probably is. I'm sure they pray to something.

Yes. So basically they had cotton, soybeans, tobacco is huge in North Carolina, obviously, and lumber was a big deal in this area. Textiles were a big deal, obviously. Anytime you're growing cotton, your textiles are going to follow behind here. From 1947 to 1950,

they had a minor league baseball team here. Really? Which is pretty cool. After World War II, every small town in America had a minor league baseball team. Red Springs had one. Yeah, they had the Red Springs Red Robins,

which makes sense. But they had, it was probably a Cardinal affiliate because the Cardinals at that point had a shitload of farm teams. They had 50, 60 farm teams. Really? Yeah, because Branch Rickey, who started the Dodger farm system and all that, he's built their farm system also. That's why in the 30s they were so good. 30s, 40s, the Cardinals.

And today. And today. It's the same thing. They've always been huge in the 30s they were so good 30s 40s the cardinals today and today it's the same thing that they have this they've always been huge in the farm system thing so uh anyway but a lot this was actually a philadelphia athletics farm team here the red robins but they switched all the time so uh it didn't matter but yeah after world war ii all these little towns had minor league baseball teams makes sense it was really weird world war ii was a great time for baseball well after world war ii yeah that's what i mean yeah i mean during it was really weird world war ii was a great time for baseball well after world

war ii yeah that's what i mean yeah i mean during it was terrible joe dimaggio was fucking in europe and not in center field for the yankees that's a bad time for baseball yeah ted williams is flying missions that's not good i don't want jeter up in a fucking airplane i don't either no that's not what he's good at stick to hitting the uh the outside pitch over the second baseman's head, why don't you? This team won the Tobacco State League Championship in 48. And yeah, so anyway, 1950, the team was led by Ducky Detweiler, who played for the Boston Braves. He was kind of a famous baseball player. Population of this town, in 1900, it had 858 people.

1900. People now, there's 3,433 people here. Booming. Booming. Down 10% since 1990. Not booming. Not booming. They've been going down for a while now, which is weird,

because they had in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, they had this huge population growth. And then now it's just, it has gone off the rails. This is a depressed area. We'll talk about it. This area is not wealthy. There's not a lot of opportunity here.

It's tough. Median age here is 33.8, which is way lower than your 37.4 average. Usually these small towns tend to skew a little older. Right. So it's different. This town is different than most towns demographically that we've covered here.

Females, almost 55%, which is usually an indicator of old age, which we'll find some elderly people here, too. Males, obviously, 45. The kid demographics are high. The 10 to 14-year- olds are twice the normal amount here and also uh 85 and over age 85 and over are 5.5 percent of the population wow which 1.3 is normal so it's some sort of weird cocoon town where these i don't know what's going on here but everybody is either 12 or 88. I don't understand. Whatever that red is, it grows the elderly and the young. Yeah, it prolongs.

And it wipes out the people in the middle. It's the only thing on earth that does the opposite effect. I feel like alcohol does that in this town, too, from what we'll talk about here. Married population's low, which is weird for a small town. It's usually 50-50 here. It's about 39% married. Twice the widowed rate, but we have a high elderly population. So you're going to get that.

High divorce rate here, much higher than normal. Single with no children is a little bit higher than normal. So there's just less married people. It's a younger crowd. Race of this town this is different than just about any place else we've covered and usually white is 62.77 percent and normally for us it's 97.77 percent here race uh white is 26.53 percent interest uh black 48.39%. Yeah, 8.62% Native American, which averages 0.66%. It's usually like half a percentage.

Now it's 8.62%. And 11% Hispanic. So it's way different than... And white people in this town are terrified. It's like the demographics of the Bronx, minus the Native Americans, I assume. Not a lot of... This is a great... It sounds like a great place.

I'd love to see it. Except for, wait till we get to the economics of it. It's not so great anymore. 45.6% of the people here are religious, which is low. It's 50-50 is normal. Baptists are the main. As we know, Baptists are the Catholics of the South. 24.3% Baptistist pretty goddamn baptist i

would say here 0.0 percent jewish uh not surprising for a rural north carolina town uh 0.0 percent muslim again not surprising what is surprising for a predominantly black population is that it's uh it's uh 50 last uh last election 51% Republican in this town, 46% Democrat. That's bananas. That's an odd thing in this town. But then again, you think about the percentage of people voting and who's voting and that sort of thing, too. Unemployment rate here is a little bit high, 7.4%. It's normally 5.2.

Median household income is a fucking problem it's just a problem uh i don't know how else to put it uh average in the country is 54 000 here it is 19 868 household how household that is that's two incomes uh 31.4 of the people make under $15,000 a year. That's unacceptable. 50%. Half the people in this town make under $20,000 a year. This town is nuts. That's very poor.

5%. Only 5% make over, I'm sorry, 0.5% make over $100,000 a year. What is that? Which is excessively low. 0.5%? That's like two people. It's crazy uh the jobs in this town manufacturing is 25 or 24 percent of the jobs yeah normally about 10 of the jobs

and the other part of it is 24 is educational services which would be the school i assume the private school employs people i know there's a college somewhere nearby so that's a that's otherwise there's not many other jobs yeah it's pretty much when 50 of it are in two so that's a that's otherwise there's not many other jobs yeah it's pretty much when 50 of it are in two fields that's a 50 of the jobs are only in two areas that's rough uh cost of living overall 100 is regular average uh ever everywhere here it is 73 which you would go okay uh but the problem is health care is high. Housing is very low, though. That's what keeps it low. Housing is a 29 out of 100.

The median home cost here is $54,600. Medium, though. Median. So a lot of houses, most of the houses are worth less than, it's like 90% of the houses are worth less than $150,000. There's not a lot. And if we've convinced you that, damn it, you need to move to Red Springs, North Carolina, we have for you the Red Springs, North Carolina Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $620 a month,

which seems high still compared to the houses, what they cost. $15,000 a month. Yeah, a year. It's still high. Yeah. I found one here. It's a foreclosure. A three-bedroom, one bath, 1,026-square-foot house,

a little starter house here, $22,000. It is a used Toyota Camry, like a four-year-old Toyota or a house. How is that even available to purchase? That's insane. Four-bedroom, three-bath, 1,863 square foot house. Nice house. Got a couple of kids. Good place.

$105,000. Oh, my gosh. Which is nothing for a house. That's crazy. Then I found, this guy would own the minor league baseball team, four bedroom, three bath, 3,461 square foot, big brick,

nice kind of stately place. President of the Red Robins. Yeah, president, $279,900. And that's like the top house in town, pretty much. That's the nicest house I could find. It's on sale.

It's up for sale right now. The nicest house for sale in town. That's it nicest house I could find. It's on sale. It's up for sale right now. The nicest house for sale in town. That's it right there. Things to do. Well, you only need one thing to do here, I think, and it's the annual Flora McDonald Highland Games and Gathering of Clans. You should never. We both will.

I saw your face. If your swap meet has two-thirds confederate flag memorabilia boots you cannot have any gathering of clans of any kind the word clan cannot be in any of your gatherings or else the fbi should show up and make sure shit's going properly are you sure because that was the floor what was it flora what's her name flora mcdonald highland games and gathering of clans with a c it's obviously it's a Scottish thing, and the clan is a Scottish thing, but still you just go, let's take the clan

part off. Just end gathering. Can we just say gathering? Cut the clans off because the wrong element keeps showing up. Every year like 20 guys in hoods pull up and fucking backs of pickup trucks and shit and they're like, what the fuck? What is this? Everybody got goddamn dresses on for plaid dresses everywhere what the hell this is bullshit what

fuck you doing what's going on there's queers everywhere around here everybody with plaid skirts on i don't understand none of this shit it's fucking insane are you positive that's not a typo and because it's for the school that it's not the gathering of clams it's it's not the girl school hey it's the gathering of clams let's's not the girl's school, I guess. Hey, it's the gathering of clams. Let's go down there to that gathering. They got all the clams there. Jesus Christ.

So I wouldn't doubt it down in this town. Who knows? They have dancing, a pipe band competition. I don't know what that is. I don't know if it's bagpipes. Bagpipes. Yes. Pipe band.

And traditional games, which attract many visitors to the two-day event. They stage it at a number of sites throughout the area here. And this is, I guess, North Carolina is the home to the largest settlement of Highland Scots outside of Scotland until well into the 19th century. Tons of kilts. So they were a bunch of people in kilts there here. So crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, and someone needs to be interested in this

because this is just with low income comes crime. The crime rates are always, as we noticed, in the richer towns, like half the crime. In the poorer towns, double the crime. It fucking explodes. Here we have property crime is double the national rate. Double. Double.

Thick, deep property crime here. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is three times the national average. Triple. Triple. This is fucked up. That's what happens when nobody has any fucking money to take care of themselves. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Nobody's got any goddamn money. There's jobs down there clearly um and i love mart open some shit and pay some well that's the problem that's that that's who's the only that's the problem yeah uh but yeah it's it's it's not uh not a good place economically to be here and apparently crime wise not a great place to be here too uh i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that i killed my wife hi my name is zach steward pontier i'm one of the filmmakers behind the jinx and i'm excited to bring you the official jinx podcast we'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max starting april 21st bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts it's all a

light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us

and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the wayback machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Now let's talk about a murder that took place here, Jimmy. This murder, we've got to go back in time here. We're going to go in the time machine. Not too far, but back to we're going to grow out our mustaches and go through the time machine.

And we're spinning and flying and there's lightning flashing. And we're going all the way back to 1983. That's why you've got to grow out your your porn stash i'll just shave this beard you get a good thick though yeah a little you need it i need it to be aggressive jimmy you really need to get it long and then chop it in a push broom fashion that's what you're gonna need i can twist these corners into a cowboy one i don't want that i'd like a pretty good one i'm looking for more of a magnum pi all right if you right. If you can handle that. It's 83. So let's give me a nice Tom Selleck hanging off your fucking lip there.

So you want the center of the Pelicans eyebrow on my face? I do. I want that. That's what you want. That's what we're doing. So we're going to go all the way back to October 23rd, 1983. OK. And we are going to go to it's going to be 930 in the morning on a fall day in rural

North Carolina here. Good time to wake up. Good time to wake up. Seems like a nice, I bet this would be a nice time to go outside in North Carolina in the fall. Like I've been there in the spring and it's pretty nice until it gets humid. And then one day it'll be like 83 and you're like whoa hey now this is no good anymore what's happening everything there's bugs the size

of pterodactyls all this out of nowhere like one day it's warm and you're swatting huge things out of the sky when a mosquito can shit on your car they're too big when it bites you and then gives you a glass of orange juice afterwards you go go, that's a little too much mosquito. Here's a cookie, pal. And you're like, dude, you speak English? Jesus Christ. What the fuck is happening down here?

Flies away and shits half your blood on your car. And then tries to sell you Confederate flag memorabilia. And you're like, where am I? What is going on here? Blood-shitting pterodactyl mosquitoes

with Confederate flags for sale. This is the weirdest place. And a hood and saying, if you were wearing this, I wouldn't have bit your neck. I wouldn't have bit, sorry. Wouldn't have had access to your jugular. Jesus Christ. So 9.30 a.m., let's talk about a lady named Alice McLaughlin. Alice McLaughlin is sitting outside.

It's a nice morning. She's taking in the nice day, basically. Taking in the nice morning. She's taking in the nice day, basically. Taking in the nice morning. She's sitting. She watches a man walk up the road toward her niece's house. Her niece is 18-year-old Joanne Brockman. She's got her own house?

We'll talk about her situation. She lives separate from her aunt, but they live near each other, right down, right across from each other. They all live near each other. They live, who? Everybody in this story. They're 3.7 miles. That's true. Everybody, that's, yeah, what are we talking about here?

I'm like, who are we talking about? Everyone named Alice and Joanne. All these ladies live near each other. You know how women are. They gather up in towns, and it's just a bunch of them. This is a gathering of clams, James. You know how these ladies are. Jesus.

What are they doing? Making their own towns. They're crazy. The broads, they're crazy, I tell you. So, no, this is Joanne Brockman, and it's her house that this Alice McLaughlin watches a man walking up the road toward. Okay. She watches this man knock up the road toward. Okay. She watches this man knock on Joanne's door and then enter. Once the door is opened, he doesn't like kick it in or anything like that.

She watches him enter. The guy she sees is a guy named Roscoe Artis. Yeah, it is. Okay. Roscoe here. Roscoe's a nice fella. Yeah. Roscoe will say he's the type of guy that you want your daughter to come home with, I would say, and say, we're going to settle down. Okay. Me and Roscoe's a nice fella. Roscoe will say he's the type of guy that you want your daughter to come home with, I would say, and say, we're going to settle down.

Me and Roscoe. Me and Roscoe here. Roscoe's had some problems. Let's talk about some of Roscoe's problems, shall we? First is his main issue. He's got a lot of them, but one of his main issues is on December 23rd, 1974, Merry fucking Christmas. He's convicted of assault on a female. Yeah, and it's not a good one either here. There are good ones.

No, but I mean, it's not like they didn't get in a scuffle. They didn't get like drunk and start throwing liquor bottles at each other. This was a woman who was not, you know know we'll talk about it here uh wow this woman she says that this was a 16 year old girl at the time first of all uh she said that on the way home on the way from her parents apartment to the store she was approached by this roscoe artist back in 74 he grabbed her from behind by the arm and told her she was quote going to the woods with him which you never want a stranger to grab you and say you're coming to the woods with me that's nothing good happens in the woods so this 16 year old doesn't even know him no and she's walking

down the street and he just grabs her by the arm and says you're coming in the woods with me 75 how old was he he's he's in his 30s at this point. Jesus Christ. And she's 16. So this sounds terrifying for a 16-year-old girl to be grabbed. She responded, quote, no, I ain't. That's Southern for no, I'm not. That's Southern for no, thank you, sir.

I have a previous engagement at the store. Then he told her, quote, you're going to give me some which is again that is southern hillbilly white trash terrifying fixing to rape your ass well it's southern for uh madam yeah may i have the pleasure of your acquaintance in the wooded area which is for fornication no this is fucking this is this is frightening yeah to be for any teenage girl i have a 17 year old daughter so anytime we talk about a 60 and this isn't about a 16 year old girl so whatever but anytime we talk about teenage girls and shit like this freaks me the fuck out the most uh so uh he says he's you're going to give me some and threw her on the ground and got over

her and put his hands around her throat and started choking her uh at this point she said that she she said i'll go i'll go she agreed to it at that point just stop choking me um but he continued to choking her choke her and said to her quote no i'm just going to kill you now oh my god this happened in 74 so So she she she still remembered some things while she was breathing. She said she would go with him to the woods and she wanted him to believe her and let her go basically and stop choking her. But he kept choking her. She started to fade and black out. And fortunately for her, this is just, you know, stars aligned for her. And fortunately for her, this is just, you know, stars aligned for her.

A friend of her sister's walked by and and said, hey, what's going on over here? And I guess this made him made artists jump back from this young lady and say, what's wrong with you, girl? Are you crazy? Which I don't know. You're choking her. Right. He tried to make it like, well, why are you on top of me? Why are you fucking with me? Meanwhile, she's being choked she's unconscious nearly yeah which is crazy uh and as then she ran away toward the store he started yelling at her quote give me my

money back uh now he and so she said that she had never received any money from him and doesn't owe him any money he's trying to claim she tried to rob him or some shit. Yeah, and then he's saying that, yeah, you came upon a situation where I was being robbed by a 16-year-old girl. Because 16-year-old girls love to mug men in their 30s on the streets normally. And then I was defending myself, obviously, choking her. And, you know, she ran away with my money. I'm the victim here. Jesus Christ.

So, yeah, that was a problem here. Also, he's got more. In 1957, while a young man, he's convicted of assault on a female with intent to rape. What is this guy's problem? He likes to assault females with intent to rape, I believe, is his problem. Seems to be. Yeah, and in 1967, assault on a female, another conviction. This was a plea to that.

So they might have dropped that with intent to rape. We don't know. 1967 North Carolina plea agreements. I don't have access to those. But another time here in 1971, he is convicted of assaulting a young woman, first hitting her with a stick and then running her over with his car. What? He's got a problem with women.

He really does not like him. He doesn't like this. This dude can't be out on the streets like this. This is fucking insane. How does he how is he out roaming around in seven? That's what I mean. He keeps 57, 67. And there's a bunch of shit in between because let's talk about that 1961 uh he stole a car and then uh and then escaped from jail when

they arrested him in 1961 uh 1970 this is not even the 71 thing about hitting the woman with the stick and running her over this is something 1970, he's arrested and charged with assaulting two different women in Gaston County, North Carolina. And another time in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina. He's involved in an incident with a woman he claimed was a prostitute. So it made it okay to cut her with a knife. How dare they call this place correction. This is it is not fixing a goddamn thing. No, this is fucked.

And I don't know if this guy is fixable. Sexual predators like this are usually... He's a danger. He's a fucking danger. And now he's decided to say, well, it's a prostitute, so I can cut her with a knife. That was his defense. No, you can't. I don't care who's selling what.

You can't kill them or cut them with knives or do anything to anybody. Really? Stop fucking hurting people of any gender. So also a misdemeanor larceny in 1974, driving while license revoked in 74, 75 and 1979 to round out that decade. But also he had other things in the 70s like driving under the influence in 1974 oh and another one in 1979 and driving with no license in 1981 and oh hold on one second we forgot two more things uh assault with a deadly weapon in 1975 which is a year after all this other shit that he did and then finally on august 25th 1980 a woman named bernice moss was found dead in gastonia north carolina her body was nude from the waist now remember how they find these people

okay these poor women here uh her body was nude from the waist down her shirt and bra were uh were all that she was wearing uh evidence showed that she'd been beaten with a stick and had an object stuffed down her throat. Artis was the last person seen with Bernice Moss before she died. Roscoe Artis was. He was considered a suspect and questioned, but not charged at the time. Now, after the murder and after he was questioned and not charged, he fled the area and moved

to Red Springs, North Carolina, and lived with his sister. My Christ. In a small blue house to Red Springs, North Carolina, and lived with his sister. My Christ. Small blue house in Red Springs, North Carolina. What a rap sheet, James. Well, there's one more. Oh, boy. There's others, too, that who knows where they fell in between. Oh, my God.

Just that alone is plenty. And you know there's so much more. This is insane. 1981, a young woman reports to the Gastonia police that Roscoe had assaulted her with a brick. And as a result, an arrest warrant was issued. But eventually the charge was dropped. I don't know. The woman moved.

She's terrified. Yeah. There was something that ended up that made it dropped that had nothing to do with his innocence. We'll put it that way. It wasn't like, well, we found out he didn't do it, so we dropped the charge. Right. It was that there was some. We don't have a case because the witness left town because she's fucking petrified of a guy who hits her with a brick right so if we go over this uh you can kind

of get an idea of who this guy's life so far he uh regardless of anything else you can say he uh every crime is toward a woman yep there is not one crime on here toward a male you and i are ever we're safe from this guy but not every time he gets around a woman. There is not one crime on here toward a male. You and I are safe. Ever. We're safe from this guy, but not every time he gets around a woman, it seems like he's assaulting them, he's hitting them with sticks, he's hitting them with bricks.

The one woman was found stuffed down her throat with a stick. This is crazy. Wait till he finds out we have bidets, though. He's like, that thing's clean. Oh, man. Coming to knock on his door. You know what?

He might come after us. I'm not sure here. So he's an interesting guy, this Roscoe artist. Not the guy, like I said, you'd want coming home with anyone in your family, really, or anyone that you know or anything. So back to 1983, though. Okay. We got you caught up on his last 25 years of fucking insanity. Was this the McLaughlin on the patio is that her name this

is alice mclaughlin's out on the patio watching roscoe artists knock on joanne brockman's door guy walking james he's walking this guy just walking around he ain't got no car he's got no car no no he's got no car and it seems like a lot of people in this town don't have a car there's a lot of i'm walking over here and i'm walking over there which a lot of it i think is it's a lot of I'm walking over here and I'm walking over there, which a lot of it, I think, is it's a poor town. Right. Everyone in this story is excessively poor, by the way. No one in the story is, you know, this is not a nobody's living high on the hog. No, this is a wrong side of the track story.

And like I said, the twist at the end of this is just fucked. It's crazy. Super fucked up. So back to 1983, Alice McLaughlin's watched roscoe artist walked up to joanne brockman's door knock on it it's it's opened and he enters uh so uh uh she uh an hour later after that so that was approximately approximately 9 30 a.m right so about 10 30 a.m alice mclaughlin watches roscoe artist and joanne leave Joanne's house and walk past Alice's house in the direction of a shopping center down the road. Two of them together.

Two of them together walking. Now, she's 18 years old. So he's the niece is 18. Denise is 18. So, I mean, he's like 40. Yeah. So this makes no sense. He's like 40 years old.

This is an odd thing right away here. So shortly after Alice McLaughlin watched them walk toward the shopping center, Alice saw her brother, Alice's brother, not Joanne's brother, Curtis McKinnon, going the same way toward the shopping center. Exactly. Going the same way toward the shopping center up there. So this is nothing abnormal here uh now curtis mckinnon he says that he walked past uh on the way to the shopping center he walked past joanne and roscoe sitting under a peach tree and arguing okay so i don't know what the fuck a 40 year old and an 18year-old have to argue about under a peach tree.

But this is like Mayberry meets I don't know what the fuck over here. Wow. This is weird shit. In 83. In 83. I can't even think of what pop culture references would be there for them to have a generation. Make a Wham reference. Yeah.

She made a Wham reference. He didn't know what it was and made like a little Richard reference. She's like,orge michael hansen he's like he's a fag yeah what are you talking about what he clearly has sex with women no he's not look at that mustache look at him look at him can we just stop that sit down he rolls up the sleeves on his short sleeve shirts it is too hot out here to be arguing with you sit with me under the shade of this peach and then let's argue there but it is october so it's just a okay so very strange here they're sitting under a peach tree arguing now curtis uh he says later on here that he ran into his brother-in-law at the shopping center so he

kind of lost interest in that over there he runs into his brother-in-law a guy named johnny haywood at the shopping center uh now haywood uh drove back toward the peach tree around 1130 a.m., which would be an hour after they left the house originally, and he didn't see anybody there. Nobody's there arguing. Nobody's there arguing. They settled the beef. Whatever, it's all taken care of by now, for good or bad. His sexual ambiguity has nothing to do with us. Nothing.

Let's push on. You know what? I've decided to eat his own. If that young man likes other young men. Pick, pick to peach his own. Let's have a peach over this. Let's do it. You know what?

We're going to share one. Just picking one. You bite one side, I'll bite the other. Be like Lady and the Tramp, swap meet style. Would you like to buy a confederate flag i have several for sale so to peach's own good god so uh yeah so she uh uh uh alice ended up after this uh alice sees uh roscoe walking back toward Joanne's house a little bit later in the afternoon. He stops to ask Alice McLaughlin if she had seen Joanne.

He stops. Have you seen Joanne? The last she saw of Joanne, they walked away together, and that was the last she saw of either of them. Alice told him the last time that she had seen her niece was when she was with you, when you guys walked away. So Roscoe shrugs his shoulders and heads back up toward joanne's house and goes up to the door but she says he didn't knock or go inside he just walked up to the door kind of stood there for a

second and then turned around and headed back the way he came which is an odd move. That is bizarre. That's very strange. Now, at this point here, McKinnon, who had, he came home. He's the guy who walked. Yeah. The uncle. The uncle. He ends up coming home back past the pear tree again. Peach tree. Did I say pear?

You did. Goddamn. Fuck that. It's a goddamn peach tree. Fucking pears and peaches. To peach's own, James. To peach's own. So, he said he'd never

he didn't see or hear anyone at this point and uh uh nothing he also saw from behind he saw uh roscoe go back up to joanne's door and whatever uh so shortly after alice uh saw m McKinnon walk past, this is where it gets worrisome. No one has seen Joanne now, but they saw Roscoe. And this worries Alice, the aunt, because after she saw McKinnon walk past the house originally, they left, went to the store, Roscoe and Joanne, and then McKinnon trailed off. Shortly after that, Mclaughlin heard joanne yell help three times heard her yell help three times three times but this is one of the best quotes we've ever come across oh boy in the history of small town murder oh jesus she says

because she had known joanne to quote cut fool. She did not respond to the cries. Hold on. She said Joanne could take care of herself. If she's asking for help, she's about to cut somebody. So I ain't worried about it. And went back to her business. That's what she means? That's what she means.

You know, my niece, she's straight gangster. She'd been known to cut a fool. She literally said because she had known Joanne to cut a fool. In 83, she said that. To cut a fool. That's amazing. A lot, she said, tooanne to cut a fool. In 83, she said that. To cut a fool. That's amazing. A lot, she said, too. To cut a fool a lot, she didn't respond to the cries.

That is the most... That's amazing. Dismissive? Shitty? But it's also like... What kind of family is this? Oh, she's fine. She'll cut that motherfucker up if she got a problem. I've never heard of that before.

Even if someone's tough or can take care of themselves, you're not like, ah, they need help, but they'll get themselves out of it. Listen, James, I can take a punch. Yeah. I've been stabbed. I'm not afraid of many people. No, but. But if we're out somewhere and I scream help, never dismiss it.

You're like, nah, he's all right. He'll take care of it. I am in dire need of your help. The other thing is, this joanne is 18 years old yeah how many fools has she cut at 18 to where her her aunt's like oh she'll cut a fool she's fine like what the fuck is happening in this town man it's a great point she's 18 years old my daughter's 17 she has never cut one fool ever ever and i doubt by next year she'll have a lot of fool cutting experience under her belt so um however if there's a little girl that i know

that's that's 17 i know one uh only know one that's that age it's your daughter yeah yeah i could see her if somebody fucks with her cutting them but she's not known to cut a fool she might cut a fool i don't know she's got my temper but she's not known to cut a fool like this is apparently joanne's reputation is i'll cut a motherfucker and carries to the point where her fucking aunt just shrugs off cries for help i'm sure she's got a knife on her she'll cut a fool wow um fucking real she didn't respond to the cries she just went back to whatever the hell she was doing so 3 p.m rolls around and joanne's fiance yes this joanne is engaged and this is odd because we'll talk about the relationship between roscoe and joanne here uh joanne's uh fiance

david moore he returns home from work a little after three o'clock he was out working today uh he is joanne's not there and he says hey you know he's worried about joanne uh he went looking for he said that to alice mclaughlin you've seen joanne she said not since this morning curtis mckinnon hadn't seen her they're all a little bit worried so they go out looking for her just uh david moore the fiance and curtis mckinnon go out looking for joanne and they end up uh they find uh the near the tree they find uh there's some buildings near the tree they find joanne's wig and her shoes there okay which is a bad women who wear wigs don't generally leave them somewhere out no they usually keep them on their head till they get home so uh that's a bad sign

and her shoes also shoes important usually those are two things she's going to keep on just for clarity is joanna black girl yes everyone everyone in the story's black okay just for clarity's sake uh you touch a black girl's wig and she will fuck you up cut you she will cut a fool yeah maybe that's what she's maybe that's why she's but that's true but a black girl will never leave behind her wig no not out somewhere that's that's not any's, but that's true. But a black girl will never leave behind her wig. No, not out somewhere. That's, that's not any girl. It doesn't matter what a black girl only.

Ladies and gentlemen, my cohost, Andrew Jackson. No, anybody. It doesn't. Any woman who goes out with a wig, they want to keep it on. That's why it's on. Right. You know, they're outdoors in a wig. It generally is not like a baseball hat where you take it off to wipe the dew no it's you leave it on it gets dewy too yeah men don't leave toupees lying around either if you

know a guy who wears a piece and he's missing and you find it out somewhere worry about that motherfucker he's something happened to him he didn't just take it off and go i don't need this anymore i've decided i'm confident in my appearance I've decided this bald spot's not going to stop me anymore. I'm going to go out there and be the best bald man I can be. That's how it works. Every one of them hang on to that thing, even though they're extremely noticeable. Totally. Every last one of them.

We travel around this country to 30 different cities. There's a piece. You can see that shit from stage. If I see it, I go, there it is right there. There's my man. There's the guy that suffers like me that shit from stage. There it is right there. There's my man. Yeah. There's the guy that suffers like me, only he can't fucking deal. But he is dealing.

No, he's not. Because he's got a piece on. That's not dealing. Everyone knows you're bald. That's hiding from dealing. I guess so. Everybody knows, but everybody can't see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

That's true. That's true. They don't know what you actually look like. What if he just doesn't like his particular hair? What if he's just lazy? He's like, this hair is already done and what if it's like because people have tweeted me do you are you bald do you i'm like no i'm just lazy james got gray hair i'm just lazy as fuck i don't want to do it because it's there's gel my hair is uncooperative so i'm not dealing with that generally never mind i'm not say it. I'll sound like an asshole. Okay.

So anyway, let's keep Jimmy out of asshole jail for a minute. The thing is, black girl's hair is great. It usually is, even when they put a wig on it. It's just the wig is already done, and they don't have to go through all the trouble and all that shit. Yeah. We know several people. I know a lot of girls that wear wigs just because they're like, fuck it. That thing's done.

I'm not doing this. Yeah. This is, I want tonight or instead of that. And my aunt's the same way. Extremely white woman who lives in South Carolina. She has plenty of hair. She'll wear a wig just because that shit's already curled up. My aunt, you met her.

That wasn't a wig. That was her hair. A racist nan had a shitload of wigs, but she didn't wear them. What the fuck? I fucking one time I went in the attic and there's a bunch of styrofoam heads with fucking wigs on them. I was like eight and I freaked the fuck out out i freaked out because i didn't know like they were just heads yeah with and i was like ah this is fucking heads i guarantee my aunt's got the

same thing after never wore them when i weird i went to south carolina for my honeymoon where i got married and when we were there she got she got up in the morning i was like what time it was like 7 a.m she comes out of the bedroom with like a cup of coffee i was like how long you been up your hair looks great. She's like, oh, sugar. This is a wig. I'm like, well, then why wear it? Why wear it in the house?

You're in a bathrobe. What are you doing? What are you, pressing me? So Joanne was not wearing the wig, apparently, obviously, here, at least past being by the tree. So at this point, they call Joanne's mother and they contact the police to report that Joanne is missing. Once they find the wig and shoes, they're like, okay, there's a problem. She didn't just wander off somewhere or whatever. And they're especially worried.

The whole town is on high alert at this point when anybody, a young female, goes missing because a few months earlier in Red Springs in a soybean field nearby the body of 11 year old sabrina bowie was found uh this was horrible uh the killer had uh murdered her and uh jammed her underwear down her throat with a stick oh my god with a stick and found her throat too that sounds weird uh problem is here um she was found the next day uh she was found uh next to a convenience store in red springs this young girl was naked from the waist down wearing only a t-shirt had her bra pushed back over her head and behind her neck i told you about the underwear she had internal injuries indicative of sexual assault we don't need to get into them in detail bad Bad ones that you can imagine

those there. She died of suffocation as a result of foreign objects blocking her airway. Injuries to her back indicated her body had been dragged across the field before put in its final resting place. Several items were found

near Sabrina Bui's body. A plywood board, schlitz beer can found inside a paper bag a newport cigarette butt matches a jar of vaseline a gum wrapper oh my god yeah uh nine latent fingerprints were lifted from the beer can uh two of which were suitable for analysis and comparison okay uh what they ended up doing is uh they were obviously quite interested in solving this case because this is about as fucking horrible as you could talk about that's why i went through it quickly because this makes this area super dangerous if you notice i don't we don't do a lot of like we're gonna focus on the details we don't do a lot of

like sexual assault murders of minors that's not like that's not our thing i don't do a lot of sexual assault murders of minors. That's not our thing. I don't enjoy that. Well, we don't enjoy any of the murders, but those are especially, I don't know, we're fucking human and it's uncomfortable and it's uncomfortable for us and we don't want it to be uncomfortable for you and there's really nothing of comedic value in there at all or anything like that. It's just horrible. Also, I'm not jaded enough to think that that shit doesn't happen.

That's the other thing. And we have kids and you have a little girl and i have a little girl and a little boy and a little boy and we're very we're all we're all very worried about them uh what they end up looking kids those four yeah they're all they're all nice looking kids so they end up uh uh they're they're investigating and uh a young girl from a local high school ends up coming forward with the names of two boys that she had heard were involved in this and had bragged about it or whatever. So they end up finding 19 year old Henry McCollum and 15 year old Leon Brown. They are half brothers and they end up confessing to the crimes of the crime. Both of them. And they also implicate other people involved. They are half brothers, and they end up confessing to the crimes of the crime. Both of them.

And they also implicate other people involved. The state's theory was that there was up to five young men there that they're implying that all sexually assaulted and then murdered this young girl. Oh, for fuck's sake. That's what they think. And they have these two. They're half brothers, McCollum and Leon Brown. They have IQs of 56 and 54. Oh, yeah. 56 and 54.

Yeah. And the other young men that they implicate are also not the most. They're not. None of them are bound for Harvard either. So but they they they give a full confession and a full detailed everything of the crime. And so they're they're arrested for that. But they give a full confession and a full detailed everything of the crime. And so they're arrested for that. But still, everybody's on high alert because it's just even though they caught the people that did it, they're still like, holy shit, this just happened.

I can't believe it. Anybody goes missing, especially a young lady, you freak the fuck out. That eliminates six kids from your future of your town. You know what I mean? It effectively puts five away and one in the ground that's it right there it's all things a mess it's yeah it's it's a disaster so uh back to night back to uh uh this back to uh joanne brockman here uh early in the evening uh joanne's mother johnny haywood and deputy sheriff McClain, uh, searched the area near the tree and they eventually do find Joanne's body. Uh, she is dead.

Obviously, uh, she's partially covered with dirt and brush, uh, except for a, she has, uh, she is naked from the waist down.

She has a sweater and bra pushed up above her chest. Uh, there's blood on her nose and her mouth on her sweater and a film of blood on her hands. So this is what they find. An autopsy reveals that although there's a large bruise on Joanne's forehead,

this wasn't the result. This wasn't a, it didn't cause a skull fracture and this was not the fatal thing that killed her here. Abrasions on her neck, hemorrhaging in the connective tissue around the windpipe and her lungs filled with fluid. And that indicated the cause of death had been asphyxia due to manual strangulation.

Wow. So that's what they're saying. She was choked to death. Oh, by the way, it gets worse. Jesus Christ. Also, examination of everywhere showed that she died during sexual intercourse, is what they found out by examining. Horrible. Yeah, from dilation. While it's happening.

While it's happening, she was strangled to death here. They want to talk to Roscoe Artis. He's the guy they're interested in talking to since he's the last one seen with her, you know, and his record. They go, oh, fuck. Let's talk to that guy. That guy. He's good for this. He's good for this.

He's been charged with hitting a woman with a stick before also in the head and shit like that. So at 10 p.m., they find him. He makes a statement right away before they even take him to the police station. He makes a statement. They said, where were you tonight? And he said he came back to his sister's house. This was this morning at dawn. They said he had a, quote, all night spree in South Carolina.

I guess he was out partying all night. He said he'd gone to sleep at about 6 a.m. He woke up at 8.30 and he said he walked up to the store with his sister and her boyfriend around 9 a.m uh he said about 9 30 he bought some peppermint schnapps and drank it all he said he pitched the field into a bottle the bottle into a field behind the grocery store and uh they never they couldn't ever find that they looked for the bottle they never found it uh he said he then walked to joanne's house uh he said he met her aunt on the on the

way talked to alice uh but found that uh at joanne's house he said the door was chained so he didn't knock or enter even though alice said she saw and enter uh he said but he just turned around went back to his sister's house and went back to sleep he said he slept from 10 30 till 4 and then the cops came and knocked on his door and said, what's going on? So that's that's his statement. He's like, I don't know what happened. I knocked on her door. I didn't knock.

I just went over there. He's basically saying that second time that she saw me walk up to the door and walk away. That's the only time. That's the only time I was there. And meanwhile, multiple people saw them walking together and arguing under a peach tree and everything else. So that's a problem here. He's questioned again. Once you get to the police station, they go, well, why do you have blood on your shirt? everything else so that's a problem here uh he's questioned again uh once you get to the police station they go well why do you have blood on your shirt that's a

that's curious you know whatever he said uh that it was chicken blood uh he's like it's just chicken blood yeah because i guess in the rural north carolina everyone they that's a valid excuse for everyone's got chicken blood on them probably chicks blood i mean chicken i mean a chicken's blood i was hungry right uh so he he says that he even offers his shirt to the cops for testing wow he says you want to test my shirt that's fucking chicken blood man check it check it if you want uh he said it's just it's it's it's chicken blood it's not it's not uh you know anything and then they go all right we'll test it and he goes okay well it's not chicken blood back it up i was bluffing he goes okay it's not joanne's blood but it ain't chicken blood either let's just leave it at that and just call it some every sometimes you have blood on your shirt you

don't always know where it comes from things happen you know what i'm saying let's just leave it at that you know you're a guy right be a guy come on you understand don't you nudging him and shit come on buddy times you got blood on your shirt? Be honest. Come on. It might be a chick's, right? You know how it is. No. What are you talking about?

Whose blood is on your shirt? No one's blood should be on your shirt. No one's. There should be no blood on your shirt. The second blood is on your clothing. You change or wash it. You change it. Or you better have a visible injury on you proving that it's your fucking blood.

Instead, the story that you're telling us is that you've been wearing that shirt and sleeping in it since at least 10 30 you slept for six hours and somebody else's blood on your shirt yeah are you out of your fucking mind it's we would love to test that it's we'd love no you know what i can't i i get so much blood on my clothes i gotta be honest with you i mean the other day i got blood on my i don't remember if it's this time or that time could be anybody's really you never know you know how blood is i do admire his sprays all over the place you know how it is i do admire his balls of testing like what this i'll test it man you can test it oh you want to test it okay it's not chicken i got a story to change you think that was the bluff though they were gonna go oh shit now he's

innocent he offered to test the shirt so let we're going to let him go now. I think he's good. I feel like OJ being like, I got all these knives, man. You want to test them? You want to test them? We would like to. I don't have any knives. He offered that we could search his house.

He said that we could search it. We shouldn't search it. Let's just go home. Fuck it. No, no, I know, I know, I know. I know he's got a cut on his finger. He must have been dripping blood. It's all normal.

He cut himself shaving. I know it's a gash, but these. He must have been dripping blood. It's all normal. He cut himself shaving. I know it's a gash, but these things happen. She called the cops on him a hundred times. It's normal, but... He should be fine. He offered. So, no. We're good.

Sorry. Hey, Mr. Simpson. Mr. Simpson, you have a good night. We're terribly sorry to bother you. The killer would never offer that. Sorry. And we're sorry about your ex-wife, too. That must be tragic for you and very, very difficult.

Johnson, let's get out of here and send him flowers. Let's go. Furman, let's get out of here and let's go firman let's get out of here and send him flowers johnson we know these cops names van adder i i could do oj for memory let's not talk about it so oh man it's not chicken blood no but it's also uh you know might not be joanne's blood it's not hers. In my opinion, certainly not hers. And then a couple minutes goes by and he goes, it's Joanne's blood on my shirt. So I got that.

And he ends up telling the officers where they could find her pants and agrees to accompany the officers to the scene to find the pants. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister

than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one

and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy. The stories we cover are well

researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us

and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts uh he uh indicated when he got to the scene where

she had been lying and how she had been lying when he left her which was exactly the position that he was she was found in so he had a a lot of facts that nobody knew except for the people that found her. Also, he located her pants under a piece of tin where he left them. He didn't have to look around. He knew right where they were. He's like, they're under here, under this tin, lifted them up, grabbed them. He returns with the officers to the police station at 1 a.m. And he's interviewed here.

And he gives up the full deal here. Full story. Full story. His story. This is his story. He said that he went to the liquor store. Let's give him quotes here. Quote, I went to the liquor store in Red Springs at about 9.30 a.m.

I was walking. I bought a pint of peppermint schnapps for $3.45 from the black dude at the liquor store, which when I first started doing research, this made me think that this was a white guy the whole time. And then I saw his picture and I was like, oh no, he's a total black guy. Why would he... Is it a respect thing? I don't know what it is.

I'm not sure. I don't know. You wouldn't go to a store and be like, I bought a bottle from the white dude in there. Or the black dude. No, it's the dude inside. I bought it from the store. And I have a habit of looking at name tags as to not make them feel dehumanized I genuinely

he says them he means people working at a store not black people in particular when I see a black person I always look at their name tags that's not what he was saying he meant anyone working at a store as if I'm going to pronounce it correctly anyway no matter what race or creed or anything i'm gonna ruin this name unless it's billy or like two letters yeah hey tj nice unless

it's like an asian two letters and then you'll probably say it wrong is that z what is an x i a z zang hey hugs and kisses come here yeah come Anyhow, my point is I take a mental snapshot of their name so that I can give them the respect that they deserve. I don't remember people's names I've known for 10 years. But if it's right in front of my face. Hey, what's up, dude? I do my best. I've fucking done comedy shows where I've heard people's names announced through a PA

system and I don't fucking remember it. i went to a gas station the other day the the man behind the counter was from mogadishu i asked because his name on his tag was simba and i said i said where are you from and he goes mogadishu or whatever and i said and i said i'm not is that your real name and he goes no no no it's a joke and i'm like i'm not calling you that it's fine? And he goes, no, no, no, no. It's a joke. And I'm like, I'm not calling you that. It's fine. Just so you know. If you could give me your first name, that'd be great. Because I feel like a horrible person.

I'm not calling you anything in the Lion King. Different names every day. Never. So he says he bought the schnapps. He says he walked over. I walked over behind the Food Lion store and drank about two- of the pint of schnapps at 930 in the morning. He says, quote, I took the rest of the liquor and stuck it in my belt. I walked down the dirt road after that toward Joanne's house.

I think her last name is Brockman or something like that. I first went by Joanne's aunt's house. I saw her aunt standing in the yard. I hollered and asked her if Joanne was home. Her aunt said she didn't know that Joanne had gone out, but she didn't know if she had come home or not. I went to Joanne's house and knocked on the door. Joanne came to the door. Joanne had told me to come in.

Long time, no see, all of that. We sat down and started talking. Joanne wanted a drink of that liquor i had joanne drank the rest of the liquor that i had joanne said quote i want you to be my main man and she says he says i've been messing i have been messing around with joanne for some time now joanne is has a fiance so who knows uh she says joanne wanted me to go outside and get some old shingles to burn on the fire. That's how poor this place is. He walked up a dirt road to burn old shingles in a fire and try to 30 in the morning.

Why a teenager with peppermint schnapps at 930 in the morning. Wow. This is some poverty shit here. Also, she wants you to be her main man, but you don't know for sure what her last name is. No, main man. And he's been messing with her for a while. Right. How many times have you even gone to somebody's house and not known their last name?

Usually, well, me personally. I haven't ever done it. Yeah, I don't know. I don't take very much stock. But yeah, usually you know who you're going to see, especially who you're going to try to hook up with and that you have been hooking up with for a while, according to him. For some time. I mean, he got the last name right to his credit. Yeah, he did get

it. So he says, she asked me to go outside, get some old shingles to burn on the fire. Quote, I went outside and got an old tire and put it on the fire. So now, nothing stinks worse than a fucking tire fire. He sent a smoke signal. Then he says, i asked joanne if

we were going to do anything joanne asked me if i wanted to and i told her yeah i got in bed and then i had sex with joanne joanne got up afterwards and she took a bath after that joanne asked me to give her ten dollars because there was some stuff at the store she wanted that sounds like a transaction of some kind that he's trying to like and see the last one that one woman he said she was a prostitute so it's okay that i cut her i don't know if he's trying to like say like well she's just a dirty prostitute like i don't know if that's his line like he tries to dehumanize the women by saying that they're not that that makes them okay to kill but that's in his mind in his mind he's making it makes it better yeah it makes it like a lesser offense um he says uh because there was

some stuff she wanted at the store uh uh quote i gave joanne a ten dollar bill and she put it in her bra uh after that me and joanne left the house walked this she does not sound 18 no she sounds 47 uh after that me and joanne left the house walking toward the store we walked past her aunt's house on the way we were talking and joanne said something about this man she was seeing in lumberton she's engaged by the way um so i don't know if she's he's making this up uh quote i asked joanne who he was and she told me it was it weren't none of my business i told her i had i i had give her my money she said quote yeah and you're going to keep giving me more of your money joanne called me a few words and she made me mad because i was pretty high at the time

i grabbed joanne by the arm and told her let's go over near the barn on the right side of the road and sit down and talk i wanted to whip her but i didn't want to hurt her joanne said quote i ain't going no damn where with you i grabbed joanne by the arm and drug her over to the back of the barn to the corner. We sit down at the back of the barn and we talked a while. Joanne started talking about this guy in Lumberton Lumberton again and made me mad. Jesus Christ. Why is he why is he jealous of somebody who he's now turned into a prostitute? That's what I mean.

One second. She's. Yeah. I don't understand. The job is to be seen a lot of other people. Yeah.itute that's what i mean one second she's yeah i don't understand job is to be seeing a lot of other people yeah but that's not who she obviously she's not a sex worker of any particular persuasion that's the thing here so like it doesn't make any fucking sense why he's like tried to do that we'll talk about this but he he's sending a lot of different mixed things here that that seem to be like he's trying to make excuses that are like, you know, well, it's OK because I gave her ten dollars. Then it's like, well, she made me mad.

So clearly that's a reason to do what I'm doing here. So then he says, quote, Joanne said she was going out with him tonight. We stood up and I reached down on the ground and picked up a big stick and I hit her on the side of the head. The stick was about as big around as my wrist. Jesus Christ. That's not a stick. That's a fucking log. That's a goddamn baseball bat, pretty much.

An unprocessed baseball bat. He says the stick was about three or four feet long. That's a big piece of lumber, man. Holy shit. It's like a mini railroad tie. After I hit her, she said i didn't love her uh yeah she was correct i think uh quote i grabbed joanne by the arm and snatched her i was going to take her over to where she was found and beat her again joanne was pulling away from me and

i was dragging her she lost a wig and she had on on her shoes i drug joanne over to where she was found at and I still had the stick in my hand. When me and Joanne were arguing about the man in Lumberton on the dirt road, she took out something and told me she would cut my ass. So her aunt knows her pretty well.

She did threaten to fucking cut him and took a blade out, which is good for fucking you. I gotta teach my daughter that trick. No doubt. I will cut your ass. I think it would work. Quote, I don't know if it was a knife or a fingernail file.

I didn't take Joanne too serious because I didn't believe she would cut me. After that, I never did see the knife or fingernail file again. Joanne had the knife or finger file inside a small round black bag with a shoulder strap. When I drug Joanne over to where she was found, I asked her if she was going to give me a little bit. Again? I think you've gone past the point of her giving you anything. You've hit her with a fucking stick and drug her. This is insane. She told

me no. She was going to give it to that guy in Lumberton. So, quote, I got mad and I took the stick and hit her on the head real hard. When I hit Joanne, she fell to the ground on her side. I asked Joanne again if she was going to give me some. I think that fucking train has sailed, asshole.

That fucking ship has sailed and the train has pulled away from the station. Any other metaphor you can fucking say. The rocket has... Jesus Christ. The rocket's running down the railroad tracks. It's all there, Jesus Christ. The rocket's running down the railroad track. It's all there. Jesus Christ. The ship has blasted off.

Shit's fucked up. What in the hell is going on? This guy's an asshole. I don't understand why he's beating her so hard and still asking over and over again, are you going to give me some? So he says, quote, Joanne said no again. Joanne was still laying on her left side, and I was standing to the left of her. I hit Joanne again with a stick, and I hit her pretty hard.

After that, Joanne didn't move anymore. Before I hit her at the second place I took her, I told Joanne to take her clothes off. I guess she took them off because she was scared of me. Joanne was wearing jeans, and she took them off. She was wearing a white sweater, but I don't know guess she took them off because she was scared of me. Joanne was wearing jeans and she took them off. She was wearing a white sweater, but I don't know if she took it off or not. She didn't have on any panties. After I hit Joanne the last time with the stick,

she was still laying on her side. I turned her over on her back. I dropped my pants around my knees. I took my penis out and put it inside Joanne between her legs. I had sex with Joanne for about five minutes. Quote, it didn't feel right, so I got up. Really?

This is the part that didn't feel right. This is the first time you've had an inclination that maybe what you're doing is wrong. Possibly. The first fucking time. Not when you're hitting a fucking 18-year-old girl with a stick. That didn't fucking, nothing was wrong with this. The other part is that she's not alive. That's why it didn't feel right.

Yeah, that's the thing. She's dying. He says, quote, I didn't come inside or outside of her. So he's saying he didn't finish. Joanne had not said anything since I hit her the last time, and she was breathing kind of hard. I pulled my pants back up. I thought Joanne was dying. I called Joanne a couple times after

I pulled my pants up, but she wouldn't say anything. Gee, I wonder why. I took the stick I had and threw it away toward the old white-looking house in the bushes. After that, I tried to cover Joanne up. I threw leaves and dirt on top of her, but I didn't put that much on her after that i

took her jeans and hid them under a piece of tin back toward the old barn that's the same pair of jeans i showed you and detective garth lockley are under the piece of tin after i hid the jeans i walked to my house i went to bed and went to sleep i woke up about some i woke up about something after four o'clock i stayed there at the house until James McClain came there, which is the police officer. So that's the second statement, which is pretty fucking. It's damning. It's damning. It's everything he says lines up with all the physical evidence and everything like that.

Everything. Everything. It's very, very, very damning. In his mind, he, I don't know, tried to sweeten it up a little bit by saying I felt bad and shit like that. he i don't know tried to sweeten it up a little bit by saying i felt bad and shit like that because by the way when cops are getting an interrogation when they're getting a confession out of you they go you felt bad didn't you right that's why you stopped you felt bad right you felt bad and he went yeah i felt bad and then that goes into the thing yeah that's how it works because they give you an out yeah like they make it sound like it'll be better for you if you felt bad which

they don't give a fuck if you felt bad or not you're still getting charged with murder murder's murder if they don't care well he felt bad that's or not. You're still getting charged with murder. Murder is murder. They don't care. Well, he felt bad. That's so I mean, he killed her and then he then he tried to have sex with her. But, you know, he felt kind of bad. So let's give him a cut the guy some slack. Is that what people fucking think? I mean, I'm no investigator, but his story really sounds to me like like in that ending part is the part that really sticks with me is I went home and went to bed.

And that ending part is the part that really sticks with me, is I went home and went to bed. Yeah, didn't give a fuck. That seems to me like a man that has zero remorse and absolutely has never before. He said, I thought she was dying at that point. He didn't say, like, I figured she was fine and just left. He didn't even try to pull that. He said, I thought she was dying, and then I left her there to die. Unbelievable. Because it didn't feel right to have sex with her, and that's really all I wanted out of her anyway.

So this is fucked up. And then they give him the out of, you bad didn't you felt bad and that's like i said a million times the david simon homicide book they talk about an interrogation the thing you have to do the oh yeah homicide as you put it in the two in a tweet which was hilarious the less offensive homicide version of that book uh they say that the number one technique of interrogation is give the guy a little tiny window in the upper ceiling of the fucking room. There's a little tiny piece of light that you can get out of. And it's just you got to tell us this. And it's a you got to give him that.

He came at you, didn't he? He came at you, didn't he? Yeah. Even like they say, guy kills his kid. And they're like, you know, a lot. You hit your, I can't beat the shit out of my kids all the time. You always smack your kids around. You didn't mean to hurt him.

It's a kid. Goddamn kid. Fucking he's clumsy and he fell down. That's what happens. Right. And you go on, you write it down. First degree murder. So lawyer.

But this guy is didn't get asked for a lawyer. Anyway, it's at this point here that he completes another statement at 3.10 a.m., which he says that he admitted in this one that he killed Joanne and that he had been advised of and understood his rights and that he had voluntarily assisted officers in finding Joanne's body. That's his next statement is like just, hey, we didn't fucking make sure you say we didn't make you do this. You did this voluntarily and you actually did this. Now he is charged with rape

and murder. Of course. Obviously and he's detained at the Robeson County Jail awaiting trial on the charges. This is the same jail by the way to where Henry McCollum and Leon Brown the two boys the boys confessing to the sabrina bowie murder that's where they're being held too so this is a tiny fucking tiny place

with three murderers in the jail which is not normally all which yeah exactly so uh the state has decided they will seek the death penalty against roscoe uh for this uh now he shows low iq in testing but uh not anything that basically they say we'll talk about it in more detail later but he he knows right from wrong he knows what he's doing he's not you know clueless as to what's happening he's not uh he's not manipulated easily that sort sort of shit. Or he's not, it's not, what's the word I'm looking for here? Gullible, naive? It's not incapacitating.

Okay. We'll put it that way here. Now, October 2nd, 1984, which is one week before the trial of Henry McCollum and Leon Brown starts here, an arrest warrant is issued. Another arrest warrant is issued for Roscoe Artis, charging him with the first-degree murder of Bernice Moss,

the one from 1981 that they wanted him for, and he fucking took off. Got it. That one. So they got word of what he did. And then they were like, okay, now that he's locked up, we'll charge him and we'll put the case together because the whole point was you can't lock him up and then you have to hold him and then you have to let him go if you don't have the evidence. It sounded like he's sitting there anyway, so he's busy.

We can build a case. That actually ends up finally being dismissed by the district attorney in 1990 for lack of evidence. Really? Somehow, yeah. The Bernice Moss case. That never gets settled poor bernice never got a drop of uh justice for her now the trial court here uh when we get into the trial and shit gets crazy here uh the court denies an entry of evidence from roscoe roscoe artist is trying to put forth this evidence that comes in it's a letter received by his sister and he has a family he lived with his sister he's got a mother that

lives nearby they know he has a son and a daughter roscoe artist also yeah this man has children somebody willingly did it with him twice yeah at least uh so this is a letter received by his sister and and also testimony by Roscoe that when he first met Joanne in 1983, this all goes together. The letter in his testimony. He says that when he first met Joanne in May of 90 of 1983, he heard her say to her mother that she was going to get killed if, quote, the people ever caught up with her. So they're trying to say that this 18-year-old girl has like a cartel after her. And if they ever caught up with her, you know, in the same small town she's grown up in and lived in the whole time and never moved from. She's not hard to catch up to. If you know her, you know where she lives.

It's not like the last I saw him was Peru. Not Indianaiana either fucking south america the last i saw him was in there i thought they might attract me to brazil but i thought once i got to red springs north carolina i thought i was free but they could catch up to me at any time at any point jesus christ uh so they're in the market for some confederate flags they're to come here. It's the only place to be. So this was uncorroborated by Joanne's mother or by her aunt, who Roscoe says was present when this remark was made. Obviously, she said it to her mother. The court disallowed this testimony as irrelevant. And also, the contents of the letter were not admitted into evidence.

They did seal it and hold it for later on. The letter's anonymous author, they don't say who it's from, but this anonymous person stated that Roscoe was not responsible for Joanne Brockman's death, but that her death had been the result of a contract being placed on her life because she had not paid this individual the amount of $5. Five bucks. A $5 debt. Okay. She was murdered and raped brutally and left out in a field under some debris for $5 debt.

That's what happens when you disenfranchise an entire town. Yeah. They think that that's actually a large sum of money. Well, and she had $10 in her bra. Right. She was up. She was up. She was ready to pay that to pay that bill uh bullshit so this is he actually this is just a an anonymous letter supposedly comes to his sister's house and he'd like this introduced as evidence even though this isn't a person coming forward and saying this this is just a piece of paper with writing up from who knows from the sister or from whoever so uh five dollars so both uh jesus christ so both uh uh his alleged or joanne's

alleged statement to her mother about people catching up to her and the letter received by the by his sister were considered hearsay and not uh not allowed into as evidence fucking obviously which makes perfect sense here uh now also during this uh he he objects a lot to that by the way they fight hard to get that they want that that is exculpatory that is the real killer coming forward and clearing his name that is a zodiac letter as far as i'm concerned yeah that's just horseshit so uh also they get testimony here from billy ann woods who is the young lady who in 1974 was 16 years old and told she was going to come in the woods with roscoe right and all of that uh and choked her almost to death they got her say she testifies against him in in 74. Now, they prefaced her testimony with a warning to the jury that this testimony was to be received and considered only for the purpose of showing motive and intent on the part of the defendant.

Like, this is what he does and shit like that. But this is a real gray area. This is dicey. But you can, he ends up testifyingifying so you can enter he tries to bring up character shit so you can bring up character shit but still they're it's a dicey thing on that of what they're what they're doing here they're walking a fine line with the jury and uh and with the rules here so he also the court introduces uh evidence of the 1957 assault on a female with intent to commit rape and the 1967 conviction of assault on a female, and all that sort of thing.

The judge says, quote, I do find that the assault on a female with the intent to commit rape in 1957 and the assault on the female in 1967 have a significant connection supported by facts, circumstances to outweigh any prejudicial effect. They're saying it's relevant if he does this all the time which makes sense it's a pattern here uh now the trial court uh permits the state to cross-examine uh cross-examine him about uh about the assaults and shit like that so he can he can let you know the circumstances of him he can try to clear up it's not like it's just hearsay or accusation you got conviction convicted also they do allow the state to ask him about a number of more recent convictions for all his other bullshit like basically you're a lawless person is what they're saying uh you don't live within the confines of the law clearly you're always being

arrested his thing was i i had a job when this was went on and they're like well that's nice good for you good for you uh it doesn't really you can't kill women just because i had a job when this was went on and they're like well that's nice good for you good for you uh it doesn't really you can't kill women just because you have a job he works hard he works so hard no i want that italian dad from last week's episode to be able to just stand up in court when he says i have a job good for you good for you you know what good for him he's got a job good for him now he can work in prison so he testifies now he gets on the stand roscoe does he testifies that he had not volunteered uh either statement that uh inculpatory statement either incriminating statement that explaining uh explaining the

that the officers had actually answered their own questions and that his signatures on the waiver of rights form and on the 3 a.m statement had been affixed to blank papers or as receipts for his clothes that they had him sign and then they attached it to that uh-huh that's what he's saying uh his testimony he says uh uh here he's he's saying i'm telling the truth now he says on the stand that he he bought a pint of peppermint schnapps shortly after nine. He went to Joanne's house. Now he's got a different story. He says, I got to Joanne's house at 9 a.m.

He says this in court, by the way, with a straight face. He says another man was already sitting, was already there on the foot of the bed. So now he's trying to act like she had like a rotation. Yeah, she was her business for the day was coming in and out. Jesus Christ. like she had like a rotation yeah she was her business for the day was coming in and out jesus christ he said uh he went to find uh a fuel and made up a fire and while he was doing that the other guy left he then says that he had intercourse with joanne and that he'd given her 15 and left now he upped the rate you can't sound like a cheapskate yeah now he said he gave her 15 bucks and he took off she he says she followed him and walked with him to a barn where she stopped to fix her clothes. He says he came to the barn.

He came around the barn to find her in partial undress. He says he laid her pants under a piece of tin at her request. Hey, I'm going to straighten my pants out. Oh, never mind. I'm going to take them off. Will you hide them under a piece of tin at my request who requests that their pants that they're wearing be hidden under a piece of tin ma'am you're not wearing any underwear yeah yeah i list you don't tell me my you just put the pants when i put them under the tin we're going to the store i don't need the

pants the other thing is too why would she want them hidden under the tin? Hide them under those. Why would you do that? What a story. It makes no sense. So he says that he under a piece of tin at her request. He said when he stood up, his head was spinning and he saw faces from being drunk. Yeah.

This is schnapps. He got schnapped up. And he's like, I was spinning. I saw multiple faces. I didn't know what was going on. He said, so I took a swing and hit Joanne by accident. I took a swing at the faces? At the faces. He goes, I stood up.

I got dizzy. There's faces. I just went, whoa, and took a swing like a confused wrestler who doesn't act like he doesn't know what's going on. And he says that he took a swing. He hit Joanne by accident and he was oh no he was horrified uh he says it caused her nose to bleed he said he was mortified by this he said he hugged her he apologized too tight i hugged her too tight yeah he's lenny now i liked her i liked her so

much he said i hugged her i apologized and he said as he was preparing to leave, he was hit in the back by someone from behind. Doesn't know who. A mystery person ran up and hit him on the back. Same person whose faces he saw, apparently. He said, Jesus. He said he turned around but saw no one. No one's there. This is crazy.

So then he turned around and ran in the direction of the road meanwhile even though it's an open thing that you can see and there's nobody there he just ran toward nothingness because someone hit him he said when he looked back at joanne she was walking from the tree uh back toward the barn uh his head again he was spinning again, just having a tough time, all that schnapps. I got schnapped. Got schnapped too hard. I schnapped it way too hard on this one. I got schnappered.

I got schnappered up. He said that at that point, his head was spinning, so he walked toward the grocery store and eventually, quote, found himself at his sister's house. And then he said he was certain that his last swig of schnapps had been drugged. That's the point of this whole thing. He goes, I was drugged, so I don't know what happened. I saw faces. I took a swing, accidentally hit her, but smoothed that shit over. Listen, I hugged the shit out of her.

And then I was hallucinating. We made up. We made up. He said, but he knew that neither how or with what or nor by whom this drugging had occurred. But the last sip of schnapps was definitely drugged. Definitely. Also, which that's his excuse. I was drugged up, had voluntary sex with her after she got done with her with her previous client apparently

started a tire fire walked down there with her for some reason she wanted to straighten out her pants she decided i don't need these on took them off these damn things just will not straighten up instructed me to hide them under a piece of tin then i hid them stood up got super dizzy punched a pantsless woman because I saw many faces, then hugged her. The whole time, you have to imagine, she's voluntarily standing out in the open with no pants on. Nothing.

No pants. Right. On her own accord. He said, I hugged her, and then if somebody hit me from behind that wasn't her, I turned around. Nobody there. I ran away. I left her there with no pants on.

Last I saw her, she was fine. She must have drugged my... She was walking. She was fine. With no pants. By the way, she must have drugged my schnapps. No one else had been near her schnapps but her. That is an amazing story.

That's quite the tale, sir. Yes. And then the prosecutor said, pray tell, all of that. And then he said everything that happened he turned around shrugged his shoulder and goes ta-da pray tell come on so what he turned around the jury goes how good am i come on come on i got the guy to say that in his own defense why am i working in redneck hills the sad part is that was his prompted story like that he had worked out with his attorney that is amazing that's the best he could come up

that's the best they could all come up with that's how bad this case is it looks for him my god that's the fucking worst so also alice the aunt uh testifies along with all the other witnesses the brother-in-law the uncle that saw them walking and you know all that shit uh defense insists that roscoe did not confess that's bullshit the cops wrote all that down and signed his name to it uh from clothing receipts that's tough to prove it's tough to prove yes it is uh he requested uh at when it goes to the to the jury uh they request the defense request that the trial court instruct the jury more specifically regarding the procedures of a capital case, including an explanation that aggravating circumstances must be proved by the state beyond a reasonable doubt that mitigating circumstances may be shown by the defendant and that the aggravating circumstances must be weighed against the mitigating circumstances to determine whether the former were sufficiently substantial beyond reasonable doubt to impose the death penalty. And that's the exact legal language they use.

The jury was instructed, actually, that it could find him guilty of murder in the first degree on the basis of either the felony murder rule or malice, premeditation, and deliberation, or both. Guilty of murder in the second degree on the basis of malice without premeditation and deliberation, or just not guilty. Right. Those are their options. The jury ends up returning a verdict of guilty. As fuck. As shit.

Of murder. Your Honor, we find him guilty as shit. Guilty as shit guilty as shit your honor is this the jury verdict as the as you all shall agree say i i the jury in the above entitled action fuck it all sir guilty as shit guilty is what we're trying to get at here they didn't even check a box they just wrote it guilty as shit a sharpie across the whole page he's a bastard now uh we'll find out here why this is so ironic that he did it's it's god damn it tune in keep keep this on till the end it's crazy so sentencing uh he presents evidence during the sentencing phase that uh uh during these proceedings that he is uh and i'm using the the court document language here borderline mentally retarded with a full-scale iq of 67 that's what he's saying based upon

this evidence and upon evidence of intoxication at the time of the murder he requests an instruction directing the jury to consider whether uh uh his whether Roscoe's capacity to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the requirements of law were impaired. Based on a combination borderline mentally retarded diagnosis and drunkenness is what they're saying. is what they're saying. Dan Jordan, who's a clinical psychologist at the Southeastern Regional Mental Health Center, testified on examination here that he had a 67 IQ. Roscoe did, not Dan Jordan.

It'd be really hard to be a clinical psychologist at the Southeastern Regional Mental Health Center if you had an IQ of 67. It'd be difficult. It really is. It's amazing. And you'd have heard of this man, honestly. The perseverance that would take the movies about him the pure just the willpower to overcome it's incredible dan jordan i salute you so uh uh he noted that uh that roscoe had no

brain damage and could read at a fifth grade level he could add and subtract and make simple and make simple change and do every day-to-day normal regular life shit he testified that under normal circumstances individuals at his level of intellectual function functioning are capable of quote social and vocational adequacies and are generally considered to be responsible for their behavior uh which he had a job at the time and all this. And I mean, in the past, he's done plenty. On cross-examination, this Jordan guy said that Roscoe could hold a job. He's issued a driver's license before and generally can, quote, cope with life.

And he also said, he reiterated it this way. They asked him, quote, now you're not saying that because of his IQ, he did not know the difference between right and wrong, are you? And he said, I didn't make any statement about that. They said, But you are not saying that, are you? I'm vocational adequacies and he said uh he said yes and they said uh unless otherwise impaired they're generally considered to be responsible for their behavior and he said that's correct so that's there now the judge trial judge gave a portion of the requested instruction limiting consideration of the statutory to the statutory circumstance uh of the statutory circumstance to the evidence of intoxication. He says, quote, You would find this mitigating circumstance if you find that Roscoe Artis on the evening of October 21st, 1983, drank three beers and on the morning of October 22nd, before the killing, drank two swallows of peppermint schnapps

and that given Roscoe Artis' reactionermint schnapps and that given roscoe artist's reaction to the schnapps he drank someone must have put something in it and that this impaired his capacity to appreciate the criminality of his conduct so what they're saying is you can find as a mitigating circumstance for the impairment only if you think that he was drugged okay you can't say around yeah you can't say that he drank some schnapps and got drunk so then he's not responsible he's responsible for that but if somebody drugged him then he's not responsible then it's a different story voluntarily ingest that yeah nor does he he's not used to that and probably doesn't use that frequently therefore would not know the

reaction uh of those drugs that's behavior while on Because he didn't even know what he got. They did not instruct the jury to consider his intelligence with respect to statutory mitigating circumstance. They're saying that that's not one. He also, Roscoe's team here, failed to object when the

prosecutor called the jury's attention to his demeanor, suggesting that they perceived a man without visible signs of remorse. Right. This is this isn't you can't do this in court because the lawyers you can. But they even said later on that this is a gray area. Yeah, because O.J. sat there looking stoic. That's what they tell you to fucking do.

Don't show emotion either way because it can be read. So they say, quote, they say this to the jury in closing, quote closing quote look at roscoe artist over there ladies and gentlemen of the jury you watched him throughout the trial is this a man of remorse is this a man of contrition you have observed him on the stand you've observed him sitting here in the courtroom for almost two weeks have you seen the first sign of contrition about him have you seen the first sign of remorse about him to show where there's a conscious somewhere in that head or body working on him so i mean they look at him type of thing which is the problem i don't like that yeah i don't like look at him look at him doesn't matter that doesn't matter all right that's just redneck shit look at him he's black ain't he like that's that's what i hear in north carolina in north carolina you got to be extra

careful i feel like and don't go look at him. Here are facts that we've gathered for you. The problem with look at him, does he look like somebody that shows remorse? He's claiming he didn't do it. What remorse is that? And that's the thing. And when the judge questions him about that, he said, I don't feel any remorse. I don't feel any anything. And they said, how do you not?

He goes, because I didn't kill anybody. And they said, well, do you feel bad about it happening now? And he goes, no, because I didn't do it. So why would I feel bad about it? Which, you and he goes no because i didn't do it so why would i feel bad about it which you know whatever that's a good point it's a good point it sucks i mean i'd feel bad if there was a girl dead and yeah you'd say well i feel bad she's dead but i didn't fucking kill her but that's the other thing they try to get you to do is you feel bad about it don't you and then you go you feel bad and they go what do you feel bad about if you didn't fucking do it like it's either way there's no right answer to that shit so uh yeah uh he argued that the appropriate punishment for what this is what's fucked up here he started the prosecutor started mixing in biblical shit oh no shit he uh

he basically uh uh he said when one is one convicted of murder uh the appropriate punishment for one convicted of murder is death. They said that he copiously read from the Bible, occasionally interspersing biblical passages with reference to North Carolina law. My word. He said at one point, listen to this. And if he smite him with an instrument of iron so that he die, he is a murderer. The murderer shall surely be put to death. And if he smite him with throwing a stone wherewith he may die and he die he is a murderer the murderer shall surely be put to death or if he smite him with a hand weapon or wood or where if he may die and he die he is a murderer the

murderer shall surely be put to death he kept putting biblical passages in and by the way this isn't the fucked up part at all that's coming up we're going to find out in a second here problem with that passage is that another man that didn't exist, Batman, said that if you kill a murderer, then there's still the same amount of murderers on the planet. That's the thing. Yes. It was then, yes. You've traded places with him. But as we know, I just don't like biblical shit being anywhere near anything legal or court or anything that we've all agreed on as a society.

Because we haven't all agreed on that exactly so anyway uh they end up finding uh for him jury recommends the death sentence yeah and uh the judge gets him in front and that's when they start asking him about guilt and do you feel guilty and he says no i don't have any remorse and blah blah blah so the judge says you sir may fuck off yeah and gives him the death penalty. Oh, boy. So he is hitting the road on the death penalty here. Obviously, he has appeals. Clearly, there's going to be appeals here. He contends that there was an error for the trial court to refuse his request exactly of instructions to the jury that he wanted them to do here.

He said that the instructions were critical to the selection of an impartial jury because two misstatements of the law made by the prosecutor and because at least one juror changed his mind about the ability to consider imposing the death penalty based upon imperfect information. There's a whole thing here. defendants based upon imperfect information there's a whole thing here he says that uh basically he says the jurors were compelled to consider their attitude toward the death penalty in a vacuum without information as to sentencing procedures that would enable them to accurately to accurately inquire about those attitudes it's basically a way to go around uh he he wants there's always there's always in

every appeal there's ineffective assistance of counsel and there's i don't like the instructions the jury got there's always those two because those are things that can be easily argued they're human error that can happen and shit like that so you can argue that uh so anyway uh he argues all of this uh uh he argues that uh the jury selection uh the jury selected was slanted in favor of the death penalty not only because of the trial court's refusal to charge uh to give them the proffered instruction that they wanted the defendant wanted him but also because of questions the court permitted the prosecutor to ask uh without allowing similar latitude to questions posed by the defendant's counsel. So they're saying that they gave special treatment to the prosecutor and gave him more latitude to ask questions he shouldn't have been able to ask.

They say, the appeals court says, the record reflects no gross imbalance in the trial court's responses to the defendant's inquiries as opposed to those of the prosecutor. So they shuffle that one aside shunt it aside so also now there's a juror issue he says there's an error in the process of jury selection uh to a private conversation between the the judge and a juror apparently the juror responded to a question from the judge whether any problems had developed with any of the jurors. They just asked the jury when they come in, how's everybody doing? Everybody have any problems or any issues here among you? And they just make sure that everybody's doing well. The juror responded to the judge that there was a problem.

And the judge invited the juror into the juror into the judge's chambers. All right. So the trial court later conducted an in-camera hearing, and in the presence of counsel and the court reporter. So the defendant here, Roscoe, contends that his absence from this meeting that they had entitles him to a new trial because of his right to be president every stage of the trial as guaranteed by Article 1, Section 23 of the Constitution of North Carolina

and the fucking Sixth Amendment of the United States Constitution, which is true. He did not object to this at the hearing. Only later on wanted this juror removed from the panel. Now, they say it's clearly an error for the trial court to communicate with a juror in chambers and in the absence of the defendant counsel or court reporter appeals court said that's clearly an error however not every violation of a constitutional right is prejudicial and in this case the error was harmless beyond a reasonable doubt they're saying nothing it was a between it was about a juror beef It had nothing to do with the case. Whatever.

The record of the of the in-camera hearing reflects the benign substance of the conversation. The jurors growing unease with her ability to impose the death penalty because that came up to there being no indication of record to the contrary. We must assume that the trial court caused the record to speak the complete truth in this regard. So basically, there's no evidence against what the judge says. So we have to believe a judge is what they're saying here. Moreover, the juror was therefore was thereafter promptly and properly removed for cause, obviating the possibility that anything said to her privately by the trial court may affect the jury as a whole. But what they're saying is she started having doubts about whether she can impose the death penalty and they're saying the judge talked her into it the judge says you can

do it it's fine you can do it you can do it and then they ended up removing her from the panel so they're saying a juror that was maybe against the death penalty brought that up to a judge was talked to in private and then removed from the panel someone who might have been on my side is what they're saying here uh so uh that that's what that is here uh they said that this action was proper under law which authorizes trial court to remove an impaneled juror before final submission of the case to the jury if that juror becomes incapacitated disqualified or discharged for any other reason basically they say a lot of latitude also they object here uh they appeal because billy ann woods the young lady who he assaulted in 1974 testified uh they said evidence of prior offenses

by a defendant is quote inadmissible on the issue of guilt its only relevancy to show the character of the accused or his disposition to commit an offense in uh of the nature of one charged so he's saying that doesn't fall into that parameters. It's exactly that. And yeah, they said it is exactly what that is, is basically what they said. Have you looked in a mirror before? You know how it's exactly what is looking at the mirror? Same thing.

Same thing. They said the defendant's attack on Ms. Woods 10 years before the trial for murder of Joanne Brockman was characterized by an apparent attempted rape, the initiation of manual strangulation, and the defendant's stated intent to kill Miss Woods. Medical evidence established that Joanne Brockman had been raped and killed by manual strangulation. These similarities support the relevancy of Miss Woods' testimony as to the prior offense. No fucking shit. They said whether 10 years remoteness. Basically, they tried to say that time passing

makes them less connected nope and they're saying no uh they said whether 10 years remoteness so erodes the commonalities between the two offenses uh that the probative value of value of miss wood's testimony is outweighed by its tendency to prejudice is arguable but they said it's not that arguable fuck off uh yes they said any prejudicial impact of her testimony concerning his attempt to a similar assault upon her would have been wholly eclipsed by the damning nature of his own words. Exactly. So he admitted to the whole thing anyway. Also, they say that there was an error in the trial court to deny his motion to dismiss the charge of murder in the first degree because the evidence was insufficient to prove premeditated and deliberate murder, which they say, no, it wasn't.

That's, again, in a prosecutor's discretion into what he wants to charge, and they had the option of giving you second-degree murder, or they could have found you not guilty. He also argues that no circumstantial evidence of premeditation and deliberation existed, suggesting that he simply acted violently during the passions of sexual activity in a sudden turn of events.

That's the most passion I've ever heard. That's a lot of passion. Yeah, it's a little too much passion. I have so much passion I hit her jeans under some tin. That's not passionate. He tenders the viewpoint here, quote, Joanne's calling for help was insufficient circumstantial evidence of ill will and curtis mckinnon's testimony regarding the defendants and joanne's

raised voices did not prove argument or bad feeling they could have just been talking passionately how bad does alice have to feel on the patio yeah hearing her say help help help she's like she'll cut that yeah she has to feel awful all right uh they said also the force used while lethal was not grossly excessive it being somehow less brutal to die during the act of intercourse than pursuant to some other murderous scheme uh three while being was being strangled while engaged in intercourse does not establish premeditation uh deliberation is lacking if the victim if the victim is killed in the midst of intercourse a passion-filled event what a ballsy thing to say okay deliberation is lacking if the

victim is killed in the midst of intercourse a passion-filled event comma a passion-filled event next time you're gonna have sex with someone go let's have a passion-filled event so what they're saying is if you kill someone in the middle of fucking, it's pretty, you know, there's a lot of passion flying around. Shit happens. No. Jesus Christ, man. Are you fucking kidding me? How hard do you have to be fucking?

How hard? To passion. I needed to strangle her. I was so into. I was so passionate. I needed to fucking strangle her and beat her on the forehead while I fucked her listen i'm what a disaster he is the next but not like that not like eyes popping out and faces turning purple jesus christ punching and that's fucking crazy if it hurts fucking stop yeah there you go help help help that's a bad sign that's not a good sign

so medical evidence established that she died of manual strangulation in the midst of sexual intercourse. And although his first statement didn't indicate that it was his own hands that were causing Joanne to be breathing kind of hard. If you remember his whole admitting statement, he left out the strangling part. Left that out. But there's ample evidence from which the jury could infer not only the fact but the specific intent to kill that accompanied it because you can't say like well i you know choked her to death but that was an accident you can say i saw faces so uh they said uh you know basically give me a fucking break and then the defendant here complains in addition that the testimony of a clinical psychologist concerning the results of an iq test administered to the defendant was erroneously excluded,

although the testimony was, in fact, actually admitted. So he appealed something that actually happened. He said, they didn't let my shit in. And they were like, yeah, that dude testified. We just didn't care. Just nobody cared. The objective of introducing this testimony was, quote, to, quote, show the defendant is talked to and he makes responses as he is questioned and that his intellectual capacity would need to be considered to gauge his responses by. He explains on appeal.

The defendant does here that evidence as to his IQ would have affected the jury's understanding of his responses and interrogation. All true. But they did know about his IQ. So pretty pointless. So he's saying that his defense is that he's an idiot who fucks hard he's an idiot who who when he gets in a passion-filled event yeah a passion-filled event that's gross that i can't a passion-filled event that's the worst fucking way i've ever heard but fucking my point is i better not ever be on the

stand ever i'm going to jail forever apparently who fucks hard yeah well there you go if you do that you're done you're done no passionate fucking no so everybody out there in small town murder land no passionate fuck when you fuck keep it to very pat move slowly back and forth caring it'll work eventually don't worry leave it at caring and don't go further eventually someone will come or you'll fall asleep one of the two so just gentle no passion so uh they said you know basically that didn't mean anything also all of his prior crimes he says his prior crimes shouldn't have been admitted it was prejudicial evidence uh everything else that they brought in his other assaults not just the the girl

testifying against him but all of his other shit uh the result of this the uh appeals uh the court here says quote we conclude that substantial evidence supports all of the circumstances submitted by the trial court to the jury indicating a killing affected after a premeditation and deliberation in the guilt innocence phase of the trial the defendant received a fair trial free from prejudicial error you sir can continue to fuck off yeah so now there's sentencing appeals and we'll go through these very quickly because there's something crazy to fucking get to here he asserts that the trial court committed errors in the sentencing phase of the trial they fared to instead they failed to instruct the jury of mitigating factors uh one of which

though was his intelligence which they did instruct them on. Also argues that the trial judge's failure to relate his, quote, mental retardation specifically to the statutory mitigating circumstance. He didn't say, like, look at him. He's clearly super retarded. I mean, come on. Look at this fucking guy.

He didn't say that. He's a drunken retard. Yeah, come on. What are you doing? didn't say that yeah come on what are you doing so uh they said violating his rights to due process of law and to freedom from cruel and unusual punishment we find no merit in this assertion he also contends that the trial court erred in submitting to the jury aggravating circumstance that the murder was especially heinous atrocious or cruel i think it was pretty fucking cruel and heinous uh we find no merit in that assertion because that's a that's subjective yeah if you think that you know uh

beating strangling and raping an 18 year old girl isn't cruel and heinous under that umbrella i think it falls under all of those things as atrocious yeah check cruel check heinous yeah fucking check first ballot ship them off let's of Fame, sir. Let's go. So they said they've stated the aggravating circumstance is appropriate when the level of brutality involved exceeds that normally found in first degree murders or when the murder in question is consciousness, pitiless or unnecessarily torturous to the victim, which I think that that works here. Yes.

He also insists that his crime falls under neither of those categories he argues that the evidence was insufficient to support a reasonable conclusion that the murder was physically agonizing or in some other way dehumanizing james they were fucking she couldn't have been in agony that's what he said before in a passion-filled event he's just okay he let's repeat that again he said insufficient to support a reasonable conclusion that the murder was physically agonizing or in some or in some other way dehumanizing wow within the meaning of the law 100 he hypothesizes first of all this guy's never hypothesized shit he hypothesizes that the victim

lost consciousness sometime before her death and therefore would not have felt whatever pain might have been caused by the choking

wow he said she was unconscious you can totally rape and choke an unconscious girl what the fuck they can't feel it that's not heinous

unbelievable wow that's ballsy shockingly appealed nigh fuck off there is a dissenting opinion here though Fuck, they can't feel it. That's not heinous. Unbelievable. Wow, that's ballsy. Shockingly, appeal denied. Fuck off. There is a dissenting opinion here, though. Somebody, what?

There is a judge on his side. The quote here is, quote, I do not view the case against defendant as overwhelming. The evidence leaves some room for doubt as to whether the defendant perpetrated the murder. He's not even saying whether it was heinous or first degree, or he's saying whether he did it at all. As the majority says, the majority of the justices here, the state relied primarily on an inculpatory statement, his own incriminating statement, purportedly made before trial by the defendant to investigating officers. His statements and actions tend to indicate that he was familiar with the crime scene and bloodstains on the shirt, which matched the blood of the victim. He said that the defendant, though, offered considerable evidence in support of his innocence.

I don't remember any of that. He testified on his own behalf and denied his guilt of the crime. He also offered evidence tending to corroborate his testimony. One of the defendant's witnesses, Curtis Blackman, testified that on the morning the deceased was killed, he observed the deceased and the defendant come from behind a building. They said that Roscoe walked toward the ABC store where a car picked him up and drove him away. Now he's got rides. this black man also then saw the victim and another man

whom he had earlier observed with the victim at a club go together behind a barn in the area his testimony as recited in the majority opinion of Believe explains how the victim's blood on his shirt and his knowledge of his crime scene could be consistent with his innocence

so now he's saying that maybe he punched her and hit her with a stick and then just drove away. And then another guy came and was like, oh, cool. A pantsless girl who's bleeding from the face. I guess I'll rape and kill her because everyone's horrible, apparently. And she owes me five bucks. And five bucks is also there.

So they say to fuck off, everything like that. But later on in the 2000s, his sentence is later commuted to life without parole due to uh some new laws that came up with the jury recommendations and then also once they had to so they had to do a trial for resentencing and then his mental shit came up a lot and then the farther you go in time 67 sounds worse and worse and worse. So that's the way that went. Now, 2014, McCollum and Brown, remember those guys? They've always claimed innocence for the Sabrina Bowie murder. Sure.

Always claimed innocence here. In fact, there was no physical evidence or independent witnesses linking these guys to the crime scene or the crime itself. 2014, they're still in prison? Yeah, they've been in prison for 31 years, these two guys here. Everybody's still in prison. Roscoe's in prison. Brown, McCollum, they're all in prison. So they're also saying, nor did any evidence exist that implicated either Mr. McCollum or Mr. Brown's mother or sister in the commission of the crimes.

Because there's a DNA thing. In fact, at the time they were questioned, both McCollum and Mr. Brown were conclusively eliminated as the sources of identifiable fingerprint evidence found at the crime scene where Sabrina Bowie's body was found. Before they commenced their interrogation, the police, that is, of Henry McCollum, Sneed, Allen, and Seeley, who are the police involved here, had personal knowledge of what physical evidence existed, where the evidence was found at the crime scene and the condition of the evidence. Sneed, Allen and Seeley imparted this knowledge upon Henry McCollum during the interrogation. Sneed, Allen and Seeley further expressed the view that McCollum had not acted alone when accusing him of raping and murdering Sabrina Bowie,

specifically questioning McCollum about his younger brother, Leon Brown. The three law enforcement agents repeatedly promised McCollum that if he implicated co-perpetrators, they in the court system would be lenient with him. The law enforcement agents further promised McCollum that if he simply admitted that he played a minor role in their offense, such as restraining the victim, they in the court system would be more lenient on him. So 1.37 a.m. in 1983, September 29th, Henry Lee McCollum signed two statements written by law enforcement officers. Neither of these kids are second grade reading level, can't read at all. That's what we have. 56, 54 IQ. iq oh my god so they wrote the statements uh these statements contain the details of the crime scene the condition of the evidence the condition of the victim's body

and implicated leon brown chris brown darnell are daryl suber and lewis moore in his statement mccollum allegedly told police that he had simply held the victim down while others raped and murdered her. Now, when they do a bunch of checks, Lewis Moore moved to Kentucky. He hasn't been back. He hasn't been back well before that. He was gone and never been around. Another guy was out of state and had proof of being out of state. He was with a police officer somewhere in another state.

So none of those people were involved in this. Another one. Chris Brown's totally involved involved it's all him no it's not chris brown so yeah uh that's what happened so the north carolina innocence inquiry commission announces that new dna testing of a cigarette butt found at the crime scene of the sab Bowie murder matches the DNA of who? Yes. Roscoe Artis. Son of a bitch. Where the fuck did Roscoe Artis live?

Right next door to where the body was found. No way. The sister's house was butted up against a soybean field right where the body was found. And they never once questioned him. Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Police investigated Artis as a suspect

but never told the defense attorneys about that. Let's talk about that. Police investigated Artis as a suspect, but never told the defense attorneys about that. Wow. Because obviously, he's the biggest suspect because he's had fucking, this has happened before. That's how he does it. A stick. The whole thing is so his MO, and they just went, ah, fuck it. These kids are easier. Wow.

Unbelievable. Sneed Allen and what was the other dude's name? Schnosberry? Sneed Allen and Seeley the other dude's name? Schnozberry? Sneed Allen and Seeley. They're dickheads. These guys. Where are these fucking jerks? Well, let's keep talking about it here.

So they investigated never till they hid the shit from the. So that's discovery they hid. So there's Brady violations. There's fucking every kind of violation you can imagine here. Not to mention they had a 15 year old without a 15 year old with a 54 IQ being interrogated without. But this is without his parent present. This is like Brendan Dassey on fucking steroids. This is mixed Brendan Dassey with fucking the Klan. And you get this shit.

Unbelievable. So this is fucking crazy. September of 2014, a judge declares McCallum and Brown innocent and vacates their conviction. People go batshit. The fucking family is pissed. Well, yeah. They're super pissed. They're like, it's like she has no justice now.

It's like the whole thing is gone. She's dead all over again. Yeah. They're super upset, which I don't blame them. Yeah. But you do want the right person to be gone i would assume i would yeah now joe freeman brit uh who was a prosecutor on this case on the original case of these two young men here he said after the judge declared them innocent that he has no doubts the confessions were genuine and that they're guilty. These boys, a cocksucker. He says, no doubt at all.

None, none. He says he doesn't put much stock in DNA exonerations. What? We don't believe in science around these parts. Now I read in the Bible as a matter of fact, though, that one killeth with a stone.

So that means more than DN. You fucking hillbilly. Wow. He says, quote, you find a cigarette. You say it has roscoe artist's dna on it but so what it's just a cigarette and absent some direct connection to the actual killing what have you got do you have an exoneration i don't think so how about you

have a guy who fits his exact fucking mo the guy's a fucking serial killer the guy is a fucking he's a fucking serial killer he killed the other fucking he's a fucking serial killer he killed the other one he killed that the last one that they charged him for and he's kills people right women in a specific way sexually strangulate he has a fucking signature for christ's sake he can murder them and that's exactly what happened to that girl so what it more likely it was the two fucking mentally challenged teenagers who didn't know their ass from her fucking elbow. More likely them, right? And three boys that were out of town at the time.

Three boys who weren't even in the state at the time. What an asshole. Fucking ridiculous. So the Innocence Inquiry Commission investigation also turned up hidden evidence that they fucking intentionally hit on these kids. Alan Snead, Schnozberry. These fuckers. Three days before McCollum and Brown went to trial in 1984, the Red Springs police requested that the SBI, the Special Investigation Bureau there,

examine the unidentified fingerprint on the beer can to see if it matched Roscoe Artis. So they requested that. Earlier this month, the commission investigator, this is back then, the commission investigator found the box of evidence in the Red Springs police department, despite repeated claims by the department that it didn't have it.

The box contained fingernail clippings from Sabrina with fucking DNA in them. A beer can hair samples, swabs, and other potential sources of DNA evidence. McCollum at this point is 50 fucking years old. When this is happening, he is 50 years old. You want your heart to break a little more, Jimmy?

Oh, goddamn life. You want to feel worse for this guy? You couldn't feel worse for somebody who, you're going to feel worse for both of them, okay? They, hmm, the most devastating thing for McCollum was the fact that he learned that it was artists. You know why? They grew very close.

No. And their time in jail and death row. Oh, that motherfucker. McCollum said, quote, he was like a father to me. No. You piece of shit motherfucker. How could you do that to somebody? You fucking knew you did that.

You knew you did it. You sat next to this motherfucker for 30 years knowing that you did this shit and was like a father to him but didn't say hey i'm already fucked i'm gonna go tell him jesus christ i gotta sing i gotta so what how many lives has he stolen this fucking guy you fucking asshole he robbed this guy of everything unbelievable and kept doing it day after day when he talked to him it's un-fucking-real he say he and brown the other one who's 46 at this point struggled to explain his feelings about artists or the possibility of freedom after 30 years he just didn't even know yeah he's he's having he has mccollum is more with

it than brown brown as we'll talk about how to has a lot of problems, too, from prison. He know it defected him very, very poorly. Let's see here. Jesus. He said that McCollum was happy to be getting out. He threw away all of his letters that he him and his brother had been exchanging because they said we're getting out. And he said, quote, I want to keep from having a lot of mail toting with me when I leave.

Fuck. Yeah. Leave the ship behind behind good for you 2015 uh the governor pardons the two men finally because they couldn't get any settlement they couldn't get a dime they got out of prison and worked they didn't have a dime to their names and they were 50 years old and hadn't done anything i'll tell you what though till they got an official pardon and i'm 50 i'm going to hunt down sneed schnozberry and i'm fucking and i'm going one the fuck back to prison. Yeah, it's one by one.

What's the point? I'm used to this shit already, so fuck it. We're going down. I can clearly handle it. Yeah. Fuck those three. Cunts. Yeah, this is fucking nuts.

Governor pardons them. They were touted. They had a couple of high-powered lawyers behind them here. Now, schools, and to talk a little bit about them, schools had identified Henry McCollum and Leon Brown as mentally challenged. McCollum read at a second-grade level when he dropped out of high school, and his younger brother could not read or write. Leon Brown could not read or write. The state of North Carolina ends up paying them $750, dollars each to compensate for the 30 years they spent in prison. Ridiculous. Which is not enough.

No, there's no amount of money that can make up for your whole life. Your life is gone. How do you make up for that? They can each go buy the biggest house in Red Rock. Three of them. So Springs, whatever. Yeah. Red Springs. so uh springs whatever yeah red springs brown didn't even get to attend the hearing where they were awarded this money because he has been admitted to a psychiatric facility god damn it

for the seventh time since his release uh he suffered psychotic breaks in prison which now grow worse uh his sister can't get him to take his anti-psychotic medications she said he talked about being raped by inmates and tied tied to raped by inmates and tied to his bunk by guards. Tied to his bunk by guards so people could fuck with him. He worried that God wouldn't forgive him. That was his problem. And he would just rock back in place for days

and refuse to eat or drink. Because he felt bad. This poor man. You poor motherfucker. 15 years old. Forgiven for nothing. Jesus fucking Christ, man. You poor motherfucker. 15 years old. Forgiven for nothing. Jesus fucking Christ, man. Nobody has anything to forgive you, poor young man.

No, that's horrible, man. Jesus. So they each get $750,000, which at least they can start a new life, right? Hopefully. Well, seven months later, they're both broke. Want to know why? Why? McCollum, who is obviously, as they call him, intellectually disabled, began borrowing money at 38% interest at this point.

Slightly high. Loan sharks don't charge 38%. You could borrow money from the mob and they don't charge that much fucking interest. Why did that happen? He kept his financial problems hidden from his friends and supporters, like the Death Row Freedom people, because in the fall of 2017, he opened up finally when he was handed documents showing that he owed $130,000 and $65,000 in recent loans. So he finally went to people and said,

I don't know what to do. Basically, their money was siphoned off by their supporters, their protectors, a sister back home, a lawyer from Orlando, a self-proclaimed advocate from Atlanta and her business partner, a college instructor from Brooklyn, according to the documents and interviews by the Marshall Project. Now, by the time a federal judge intervened in the spring of 2017, they hadn't even set

up a trust for the brothers, which is all they were supposed to do. they hadn't even set up a trust for the brothers which was all they were supposed to do but instead the money intended for their care had been spent on predatory loans exorbitant legal fees multiple cars women's jewelry and children's toys assholes they fucking these two poor kids just got fucked and fucked and then fucked again unbelievable unbelievable um now uh wow jesus christ uh they said uh um this jeffrey desconic who's an exoneree he established a foundation to help the wrongfully convicted says he had advised about 60 other exonerees on how to manage compensation and the unwanted attention it brings the experiences of mccollum and brown are extreme but he says the underlying dynamics are common he says quote all were hit up for money by family and friends and were targets of scammers

because they come out of jail they don't know what to do with their money and they're handed all this money and people are like oh no no you've been in prison you don't know what to do i'll help you out and then they're fucked and uh wow you know what you do you walk the fuck into a bank because there's corporation laws involved there that they can't fuck you. These were people that were legally put in place to set up trust for him. Yeah, these were his sister, a lawyer. These were all people that were his legal guardians that were supposed to set all his shit up. And they just robbed him blind instead.

He's fucked. They're trying to sue for the money back. But there's a whole other separate case because he got sued by a loan company that owns him that owns it but they go in that whole thing they go through the whole cork it's insane not a single person in his life was ever good to him no i don't know if his parents were or not but jesus christ man the the world has just shit on these people's heads constantly every single day with no no input of their own they didn't do anything to cause any of this shit they didn't rape this girl they

didn't kill this little girl they didn't do anything they get sent to jail they get fucking horribly abused by prisoners and guards and put in fucking death row you know scary death row is 30 fucking years how bad that's got to be then a guy who you meet who's older than you who makes you feel like he's a fucking a friend a friend a father figure is the guy the fucking reason you're in there and then you get out so that's the guy you trusted in there he fucked you over then you get out and all the people you're supposed to trust steal all your money too on top of it unbelievable this is the most two shit on people i've ever heard in the morning to squeegee the shit from their eyes and then say please sir may have another

it's un-fucking-real for 30 something years now for 35 years that's been going on with those poor people so at least they're out of prison those two and roscoe is never leaving prison uh he is uh currently in prison and uh not going anywhere uh he, I think, life without parole, though. I don't think they tacked a death penalty. He deserves fucking whatever. I don't care what happens to that guy. We're not death penalty proponents. We're not.

And especially because of this, because those kids, they looked super guilty. They looked guilty. It looked like they had the statements and all that, and they fucking weren't guilty. This is why we don't like the death penalty unless, like, five people watched him and he says, yes, I did it. Absolutely. Fuck that person I killed. It's very hard. If there's any question, it's so fucking difficult, man, to do that because this could happen.

And all the DNA in the world. When all that shit lines up fry him get rid of him we don't need that's it though yeah like roscoe we have about five different angles on him but he's he's he did all this shit and he's a predatory motherfucker and a budding serial killer yeah let's be realistic here that's a you know he's really coming into his own he was coming into his own and he had picked up the pace yeah he in 81 he killed that one woman then he killed a little girl and then so it went from a a year period of time off, a cooling off to then to then down to five, six months to where now two weeks from then he would have fucking killed somebody else. Who knows, man?

So it might have gone down even sooner. But I don't know. That's fucked up. That'll make you angry. Hope we got your blood flowing today. That is Red Springs, North Carolina. And that is small town murder. Holy Jesus Christ.

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or heading over to paypal using our email address which is crime in sports at gmail.com uh do all of that and now with that said jesus christ i'm all jacked up from that show that was that was the last thing I found was the just like he was like a father to me and I'm like motherfucker I was like god damn it so anyway now that we're all angry Jimmy hit me with something positive hit me with the list of my

favorite god damn people this week's executive producers are Aaron Cox Matt Ballew you were wrong by the way I was still reading he knows what that means Ashley Johnson Cat Power Shannon Feltus James Aaron Cox, Matt Ballou. You were wrong, by the way. I was still reading. He knows what that means. Ashley Johnson, Cat Power, Shannon Feltus, James Fraker, and Julia Avery. Thank you guys so, so much. We can't do it without you.

This week's other producers happen to be Hunter Perry, Hannah Marmoro, Tracy Jacobs, Bill Sosinski, Olivia Reif, Joshua. That's all of them. One of those, I'm sure. It might be Reif. I could be way wrong. That's everything. Joshua Almas, Becky Stevens donated twice, both ways. Thank you, Becky. Thank you. Cecilia Scheidler. We'll take it both ways.

Jesus. We'll take it from both ends. We don't give a shit. Eiffel Tower, high-five yourself in the middle and we'll take it. We don't care. Rosco Eiffel Tower, high five yourself in the middle, and we'll take it. We don't care. Roscoe Van Damme, Guy Rillo or Ryu? Rillo. I think it's Rillo.

I think I just did it. I solved that riddle. Bernardo Ducalon, he donated Philippine money. I've never seen it. I don't know what it looks like. It was through PayPal, so it was all digital. Well, thank you for your island money. Bernardo, you're a good man. seen it. I don't know what it looks like. It was through PayPal, so it was all digital. Well, thank you for your island money. Bernardo, you're a good man.

Appreciate it. Colleen Udovich, Brendan Ables, Amber Goodell, Natasha Fellows, yes. Jesse Hartman, Ryan Shank, Heather Roberts, Lauren Demerath, Kyle Krasowski. Colby R. I think the R is the last name. I'm pretty sure. Maybe, yeah. Tyler, I'm going to fuck this up. Delugancy.

That sounds like a threat. Yep. I'm going to fuck this up, Tyler. I'm going to fucking ruin it. Open up wide, Tyler. I'm fucking it up. Delugancy. Law office of Michael Stoll, who also sent us a fucking bidet.

That was amazing. I want to know the joke. I want to know where the punchline is, because really the punchline right now is I'm washing my ass with your money. So that's what that is. Because you shit a lot, I believe. That's what it is. I hope that's what it is, because that's what I'm going to use it for. I think it's just your pooping regimen, Jimmy.

That's going to be my assessment of that. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate you. Yeah. Jimmy, that's going to be my assessment of that. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate you. Yeah. William Vaughn, Carla Broman, Tess Fahey, Thomas Lofton, Russell Tobler, Becky Albertson,

Alexander Jacobson. That one stumbles me because it's a K, not an X. It's Alex. Ah, it's a tough one. Yeah, yeah. I'm not that dumb. Yeah, that one. Michelle Terry, Photography, Kevin Talkington, Marieliella rosas thank you very much jen jen stevens

tj mccollum uh john uh john vulcaner the third oh that's a junior's junior uh philip patrick uh breton uh aaron aaron i should fucking know i i chic i s h i aI-K That's all the vowels. How do you get to do that? I-A-K-A? I-sheek? I-A-K-A? It's not in front of me, so I have no idea. I don't know how to pronounce it. Emily Downing, Rachel Stora, Gabrielle Elder.

It's with a Y. See what I'm doing? I'm doing my best to pronounce these. I get it. P.B. Corbin, Dave Allen, Marshall Walker, donated twice. Thank you, Marshall. Thank you. Penny Coleman, Peachy Keen Meg, Bo Magnuson, William Weir, Skyler Henderson, Ted Cyrus.

He's back in. Thank you. Thanks, Ted. Cherie Lynn. I believe that was Latrell Sprewell's cousin. Oh, hey. Thank you, Cherie. Matt Dietrich, Christina Jordan, Corey Kano,

Tubub... Tubub... What? Okay, they just wanted you to do words they wanted you to say. Yeah, there's an N after a B. They're fucking with me, for sure. Jordan Bennett donated twice, I think. Thank you. And she sent the hockey pucks.

Oh, that was so cool. Those were awesome. Thank you, Jordan. No, no, that's a different Jordan. Oh, shit. No, it's the same one. Okay. If it's you, thank you no no that's a different jordan oh shit no it's the same one okay if it's you thank you if it's not you how dare you pretend to be somebody else and take credit for their hockey pucks i think it's the same one uh dita vasquez steven steven rude uh anita marie uh under the sea fabrics uh tamsin hunter thomas smith

alexis seager janice hill zach def defecine defeciani oh that's a tough one oh yeah he got called defecate forever for a long time for the whole he still does most of the time it's a car yeah justin miller and gg thank you guys so much and then uh happy birthday ethan in uh uh columbus columbus that's not a hard word it looks like i wrote columbine oh okay that is not columbine that's columbus new uh uh not newton nebraska jesus christ what a fucking dumb am i but that was from his girlfriend nikki uh she sent two emails and uh i think she didn't think i read it you're wrong nikki thank you thank you, folks. So goddamn much for what you do for us. You're amazing.

Honestly, from all those reviews to that, to the money you give, to the donations and gifts you send us, emails telling us nice things, tweets, whatever it is. Thank you guys so much for everything like that. And what if they wanted to say something nice to you, Jimmy? Where could they find you? You can find me at Wisman Sucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N-S-U-C-K-S on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. Our other show, Grime and Sports, has characters on the show. And I'd like to say that somebody set up accounts, but it seems like the real Estevez Jones exists.

Oh, yeah, he exists. He's out there. And he said hello and sent a donation. So thanks, Estevez. Thanks, Estevez. We love you. Where can they find you? Motherfucker. and sent a donation. So thanks, Estevez. Thanks, Estevez. We love you. Where can they find you and tell you?

Find me at Jimmy P is funny or copy and paste my last name from the show description, therefore not misspelling it and finding the wrong people and ending up following lawyers from Pittsburgh. So do that.

Find us there. Jesus Christ. It's been a wild one. I feel we've started out the new year strong. We've done well. It's only going to get stronger. We've done better than Sneed, Allen, been a wild one. I feel we've started out the new year strong. We've done well. It's only going to get stronger. We've done better than Sneed, Allen, and Schnodgrass.

Schnodgrass sucks. Someone needs to schnop Schnodgrass. Stick a stick down his throat. That's it, everybody. Until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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