Small Town Murder - #106 - Not Regulation Behavior in Burlingame, California - Part 1

Episode Date: February 14, 2019

This week, in Burlingame, California, a man with a long history of perverted, violent, and downright disturbing behavior works his way through the world, leaving behind a trail of mutilation, and death. With seemingly no remorse, or end in sight, he did the unspeakable to just about anyone he encountered. The worst part of it is how much he seems to enjoy every bit of pain he causes. This one was just too much atrocity to fit into one show. Part 1 of 2!!*******Be warned. This one is extremely graphic *******Along the way, we find out that people dress their pets up, and take them on parade, that a disturbing childhood often leads to a disturbing adult life, and that you shouldn't be pen pals with a man who killed his last pen pal!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Burlingame, California, a recently released murderer comes to visit his estranged wife and leaves quite the trail along the way. back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks. Thank you. Can't thank you enough for joining us again on an insane crazy journey this week and guys we have to tell you this week this is first of all this is part one right of a two-parter and uh it's part one isn't just like backstory and then part two is murder there is so much murder through this whole thing yeah and i

have to give you a special warning this isn't our normal like haha disclaimer uh this is serious uh this is a graphic graphic tale uh there is horrible descriptions of absolutely disgusting things of a violent nature uh of a sexual nature uh horrible graphic shit uh described by the person and it's not it's not for the faint of heart let's just say that. So let's get that out of the way. I'm sure you've heard worse probably. I mean, you listen to Jeffrey Dahmer's story. I don't think anything could top that, but it's goddamn disgusting.

Let's just say that. But that out of the way, thank you guys so much for everything this week. Your iTunes reviews, they are important to us. Your Apple podcast, whatever you want to call it, the purple icon. You guys are really good to us. Thank you so much for those. They really do help us out a lot. They drive important to us. Your Apple podcast, whatever you want to call it, the purple icon. You guys are really good to us. Thank you so much for those. They really do help us out a lot. They drive us up the charts. So if you

want to help us out, please do that if you haven't done it yet. Give us five stars. Like we said, drives us up the charts. It feeds iTunes funky algorithm. You can go over to shut up and give me murder dot com. Very nice place to go. All the information on the show, things you can get like merchandise for

everything small town murder and crime and sports. If you're not listening to crime and sports, I don't know what you're doing. You're really missing. There's a party going on in another room and you really want to party. You're just like sitting there going, I wish someone would ask me to party. There's a huge party

that you're welcome to in the next room and you don't even know about it. So get your butt over there. I wish someone would ask me to party. And there's a huge party that you're welcome to in the next room, and you don't even know about it. So get your butt over there. I wish someone would ask me to party. That's what they're wanting. And we're right over there. It's a huge party. We're having a ball. So listen to Crime and Sports.

You can get all the merchandise there. Also, get your tickets to live shows, especially the one coming up next week. If you're listening the day this comes out, it's a week from today. West Palm Beach, Florida at the West Palm Improv. it's going to be an awesome show so check that out uh it's going to be we people we know are going to be there so we have to put on a good show we really got to show off so it's going to be a good one so come out to that tell you that right now and everything like that also of course we have to thank our wonderful wonderful producers they really who are

amazingly good to us thank you guys so much you keep us really going uh we appreciate it we're going to give you the long list of those people at the end of the show if you'd like to be one of those people it's not that hard to do you can go over to patreon.com slash crime in sports or head over to paypal and you can make a donation there using our our email address which is crime in sports at gmail.com. And all those links are available through where, Jimmy? Over at shutupandgivememurder.com. You got it, my friend.

That out of the way. We have to do the disclaimer quickly. This is a comedy podcast. The facts, everything is real. The cases are real. Everything, all the facts are, you might as well be Dateline. It's all real, except I think we do better research. I don't know.

I'm going to put that out there, but never mind. Lester Holt works more on the delivery. I'm sure he does, yes. He's got a script and a teleprompter that people have put together. His delivery is more important than the fucking research. I got to be able to cram a dick joke in there. We lead different lives. Let's just put it that way.

Lester's dick joke is on his face. That's right, goddammit. But it's a we lead different lives let's just put it that way lester's dick joke is on his face that's right god damn it so but it's a comedy podcast we're gonna make jokes we're comedians that's what we do so uh we we make jokes at expensive small towns because we're all from some shithole small town that it's it's all they all suck right that's what it is uh we're gonna make fun of that it's the black guy he's not no you're thinking of i can't remember his name and i when you said lester all i pictured the other guy for some reason too i don't know why frankly nutsack because holt sounds like a nutsack face name i don't understand it so sorry that's so anyway uh yeah we make fun of small towns bumbling police forces we make fun of the murderer i mean what else can we do as comedians we have no recourse against these people

legally or or anything else right uh what we try not to do we go out of our way not to do is we make fun of the murderer. I mean, what else can we do as comedians? We have no recourse against these people legally or anything else. What we try not to do, we go out of our way not to do, is we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags.

If that sounds good to you, then we are going to have a ball and this is going to be gross, this episode. But we're still going to find a way to have some kind of fun in between the grossness. And if that doesn't sound good to you if you think true crime and comedy just don't go together then uh bye have a good one than yours this probably isn't gonna work out

and uh you know it's we we we had a drink we ordered appetizers and we realized we're not compatible keith morrison has a great story for you i'm sure and it'll be good so go do that but for everybody else who's out there, let's do this. Shout it out from the rooftops, from your cubicle, out your car window, unless you're in a conservative office. Then go into the bathroom and say it into your arm like you're sneezing, like a child sneezing. Say, shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. All right. What do you say here? This week, we're going to go back to the West Coast. We were in Oregon a couple weeks ago, and we're going to go back to the West Coast. We haven't been in

California for a while, and we're going to California. We're going to Burlingame, California. Just south of Oregon. It is, actually. Yeah, just south of Oregon. Very good. And they are suspended. They are suspended. This is not Oregon. No! Willamette. So, burlingame california and the episodes we've done in california have been like uh well the one was

kind of right on the border with nevada but that was over on the eastern side the herb coddington one there oh yeah that one was gross yeah and then we did the one down by you know in the riverside all the way down there with our last one, Canyon Lake. Right. We were there. And now we're going up northwestern Bay Area. Okay.

So this is, we're going different parts of the state. Spreading it out. Well, yeah. And it's one of those things where like California has a lot of murders because there's a shitload of people there. There's more people in California than like 35 states put together. I'm not even joking. So.

Well, also, if you've ever driven. There's a lot of murder. So if you wonder why we were doing another one. If you've ever driven a long distance through California, just looking at street signs and stuff, you can go, something happened right here. Just by looking at a word there, you go, what happened right here? It's crazy how much shit has happened in California. Not just good, but also horribly bad. It's by an ocean. It has natural resources. So people have been there forever.

This is in Northern California, near the Bay Area, like we said, 25 minutes outside of San Francisco. This is like suburban San Francisco, so it's going to be expensive, as we know. An hour and 45 minutes to Sacramento, because we made that drive. Seven hours to Canyon Lake, which was episode 70. Seven hours? Yeah, that's all the way down south. God, that state's huge. made that drive uh seven hours to canyon lake which was episode 70 which was the seven hours yeah which was the one that's all the way down south which was uh huge the woman killing the golden girls as we remember which is a gated community in the gated community in the gated the gated town gated town if you haven't listened to that episode it's not it is bonkers listen to

that episode beginning to end brutal and weird and it's just weird, man. This is in San Mateo County. Zip code 94010. Area code 650. It's six square miles. About four and a half of that is land. There's a bunch of what's on the water. So there's water also. The motto of this town, there's a couple mottos.

They have two, actually. I feel like one is just kind of what they for the residents and one's for tourists okay it's one of those i feel like uh first motto this is like for the residents is just the city of trees oh which i don't know if that's a that's fucking dumb that's i mean trees are nice yeah i like trees but i don't want to live in one i don't know smurfsurfs? It's a very, yeah. That's what I picture, too. I picture little tree houses that people are living in. Like the Keebler elves. Sorry, what is it, Avatar? Smurfs live in mushrooms, I think.

Don't they? Yeah. The elves live in trees. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. We're making cookies in the trees. Right, right, right. We got to get our tiny cartoon character straight here.

Avatar was in the trees. I never saw Avatar. No, it was a city in the trees. It was dumb. It was boring as shit. It was dumb. Yeah, I can't connect. Very dumb.

I can't connect with CGI people. I just can't do it. I can't do it. I try, but my brain knows it's not real and I don't care and I drift off. Have you seen Star Wars? I can't watch Star Wars. See, same thing. I don't connect with that either.

I saw the episode one. I took my little brother to it in the theater when it was out back in the day and I fell asleep during the pod race. That's how little I give a shit. I've done it too. I passed out during the most fucking action in the whole movie i was like i was snoring i can't stand it uh the the space most new one the one right before that i fell asleep and i can't i don't want anything in space or underwater i can't watch i just i'm bored underwater i can

watch if it's like not not like finding nemo. I can't watch submarine movies. I'm bored as hell with a submarine movie. Like you're just in a tube under there. It's riveting and funny if they're trapped in an airplane. I can't. There's just no chance to expand anything. You're just in there. So the chance of expanding the plot is it's fucked. So there's the city of trees.

And also this is once for the tourist Bay, Bay Area minus the bum feces. So I feel like that'll attract people, I feel like. Yeah, I mean, you're going to call them bums. That's not really nice. They could have said homeless person's feces, I'm sure, but, you know, whatever. So history of this town. Burlingame here. It's situated on land previously owned by very rich people.

A San Francisco-based merchant named... Listen to how many names he has. That tells you he's rich right there. If you have more than three names, you're wealthy. How many names do you have? Three. Three. There you go.

Unless it's like Joe Don or something in the middle. Unless you're like Robert Joe Don or something or some shit like that. Words that go together. This is William Davis Mary Howard. Mary, like Christmas. Really? That's the third middle name. Second middle name.

Which is probably, I'm sure, when rich people spit kids out, they put the one person's maiden name their rich family has to be in there too so that way every fucking rich twat face in the whole every rich douche fuck has to know in the whole radius oh he's from he's also this right oh i those i respect them yes it's they're they're all they are they're all very wealthy i had a friend in high school named chris john that was his first name. Chris John? Chris John. K-R-I-S-T-J-O-N.

First name. That's not a name. Then he had a middle name, and his last name was a hyphenated last name. No, no, no. Lindgren Osborne. No, no, no. Christian. You're leaving him off.

We called him KJ. I'm blowing the whistle, throwing the flag, personal foul. Naming your kid a terrible name. We abbreviated that whole shit to KJ. Yeah. He's a great kid. I'm sure. It's just fascinating that, I mean.

He didn't like it, I'm sure. No, and it's not his fault. He didn't want that many names. He can't choose it. But you can't just white trash stamp this whole shit. You can't pump that many names into a child. Just decide. And he had a middle name.

Pick things. That's five. You want a hyphen, that's fine, but then you can't give him two first names. I get it if you both want credit, whatever, but you can't have two first names. And he should have deleted his dad's name out of the whole equation because his dad was deleting himself out of the equation. You just solved the whole problem. He got to just delete his middle name and his dad's last name.

Chris John Osbo. Done. Done. Solved. Jesus Christ. I'm a problem solver. We just did it. It Osbo. Done. Done. Solved. Jesus Christ. I'm a problem solver. We just did it. It's over.

That kid has a better life in one fell swoop. So, well, William Davis Mary Howard, he planted a shitload of eucalyptus trees on his property, and that's kind of how it became the city of trees. He moved there to retire with his young wife. So he's a rich guy who has a young wife and said, we're moving out to this, you know, what was then the country. This is in the 1800s to retire and plant eucalyptus trees and relax. Is he bringing koalas or he just likes the trees?

Just bringing the trees in and planting them and sitting there and, you know, I don't know, having sex with his wife a lot, I guess. If she's into it, I'm not sure. She might not want him. Listen, it was a long time ago. She doesn't have a choice. That's the other thing, back in the 1800s, really. He eventually bought out his partner a Henry Mellis, which is a terrible last name. M-E-L-L-U-S.

It's a bad last name. He was planning to just retire there, and then he died eight years later. Molested? William Davis Mary Howard. Oh, no! just retire there and then he died eight years later molested william davis mary howard no he died and they stayed divided his state a state up into third uh they gave a third to his young wife agnes there they gave a third to his son william henry howard god damn it yeah and uh one third to his father-in-law for some reason oh no there's some kind of delayed dowry i'm not sure delayed reverse dowry i'm not sure delayed reverse dowry

i'm not sure i'm not real liquid right now but when i die you could have a third you know what how about a third of my eucalyptus trees listen hey listen pal i know you i know your daughter's kind of young i'm an older guy but i tell you what you like eucalyptus all my money's tied up it's all tied up in eucalyptus the market for eucalyptus is about to skyrocket like i'd like to help you out but i'm really all tied up in the eucalyptus market right now i apologize you know how that goes i am balls deep and you know how that goes jesus christ rather be balls deep in your daughter yeah eucalyptus you know what i'm saying but uh that's how it goes so i'd like to if you give me your permission i'll be balls deep in both you know

what i'm saying big guy guy, wink, wink? Yeah, that's right. And so will you when I die. You know how that goes. So in 1856, the land was sold to a banker named William Ralston, and then he named the land in 1868 after his friend Anson Burlingame, who was the United states ambassador to china really yeah and apparently that's that's who this town is named after there's also a burlingame of

a previous episode right if you remember so that was a terrible one that was a guy who uh thanksgiving butchered his whole family there she went around shooting his whole family at the table uh not at the table just around the house he wasn't at the breakfast table with the mom with the teacher that one no no no no this was the father they got a divorce and all that and he parked like two blocks away oh yeah some nosy neighbor said there's a car outside isn't that one called the cops in small towns it's for like this is such a small town murder in the city you could park somewhere no one goes hey there's a car outside like yeah there's a lot of cars outside shut up mind your own business in a small town one million people here there's cars fucking everywhere one car that's reason to call the police department just because it's

parked there right i don't know whose it is 9-1-1 so uh yeah so the the town of uh in 1906 was the great san francisco earthquake that really fucked a lot of things up and also scared the shit out of a lot of people. And a lot of people ran to the suburbs and ran outside of San Francisco. Moving inland. And moved to Burlingame. Not inland. This is bound by the. 20 minutes in.

But it's not inland. It's down. It's on the water. Oh, no. So they just went south? They just went, yeah, away from it. But it's away from there. It was less destroyed.

And so they started building a lot of homes. It was like, well, let's go somewhere and rebuild. This place is literally on fire. Most of it's on fire. We should go somewhere else, which would have been a great time to swoop in and buy some prime real estate. My God. There's another coming. Don't worry.

I know. I'm saving my money. 1906 and then 1986? No, it was 89. 89. There you go. That's right. So you're talking about 83 years. was 89. 89. There you go. That's right. So you're talking about 83 years.

We're 40 years. We're close. We're close. I don't know. So in 1910, the neighboring town of Easton, they annexed that. And that was also, they added some parts to Burlingame from that. And Burlingame, known as the City of T city of trees like we said due to its over 18 000 public trees in the city and so there's a lot they public they plant them like in the street

like when you plant sidewalk trees like in new york city is that a public tree it's a public tree it doesn't belong to anybody it's yeah you don't let you live in the house in front of a sidewalk tree it's not up to you to keep to prune it and shit the city does that okay okay city-owned tree it's a city tree yeah so city-owned tree yeah not a public tree so i don't want to like a public park right it's a public tree climb it if you want got it okay you don't need anyone's permission to climb up that bad the word public park implies that there's ownership on everybody and that's where i was thinking like do we all have to fucking take turns for everyone well it's a it's a round robinbin system where you go, there's a chart.

There's a phone tree. There's a chart. Well, there's a phone tree. We'll get you involved in it. Don't worry. We'll talk about it after the show. Somebody out there send Jimmy the phone tree information. So, yeah, they had 18,000 public trees.

In 1908, the Board of Trustees passed an ordinance prohibiting cutting injuring or destroying trees so once a tree is planted that shit is planted yeah that's it it's in there they also have a lot of parks and eucalyptus groves they're they made this like a different kind of place they didn't want this to be like a a city with just concrete this was a place for trees they're uh currently people here there is 30,459, which is right at the top of our limit, but this happened about 20 years ago, 30 years ago, so there was less anyway.

It's up 14% since 1990, which is around when we're going to talk about in that particular town. Median age here is about 40, three years older than normal, except it's not out of whack. A lot of times when we have that, it'll be like a lot of old people.

It's more like everyone's about 48. It's one of those things. You need a lot of money to move here. We'll talk about it. It's expensive. So it's one of those things where the 35-year-old to 54-year-old demographic is higher than normal, and the zero baby to 10-year-old demographic is higher than normal and the zero you know baby to 10 year old demographic is high okay so it's a lot of people that are 35 to 54 with money move out of the city to go here

and have their kids got it so they can you know have a dog or some shit i don't know what they're doing tacky people that don't want to be in in the city exactly because it's only 25 minutes outside what the hell uh female population a little higher than male population. A little out of whack there, which is whatever. Married population, normal. It's about 50-50. Everything's kind of normal. Widowed is normal. Single with children.

It's very typical in terms of demographics. Single people with no children, single people with children, all that type of thing. The only thing that's out of whack is the money, which we'll talk about. It's crazy here. It's wow. Racially, the town, normally white on the average is 62.77. Here, 59.49. How about that?

So we rarely get a town with less white people than normal in a small town. But 1.06% black. It's not that. That's not that's not that's that's not who's here uh 20.63 percent asian which is by far the highest amount we've we've ever had of asians because it's outside of san francisco yeah so it's a high asian population market yeah normally it's about five percent so and also a lot of tech shit and business shits there and it's there's a lot going on uh so hispanic is about 13 percent

so it's it's a pretty diverse area when it comes to that but uh one thing everyone has in common besides there's not a lot of black people is uh they all have money also okay uh about 47 percent are religious which is right about normal uh most of the people here are catholic actually which is strange catholics the baptists of the bay area i guess i actually, which is strange. That is interesting. Catholics, the Baptists of the Bay Area, I guess. I don't know. That's a question mark. Who knows? I'm not positive about that.

But that's the only thing with a huge high population. 0.8% Jewish. Almost. God damn it. Almost got to sing Habaniquil. So close. I'm sorry. I cannot do it.

1% of an Eastern faith. So that would be Buddhist or Hindu or that sort of thing. 0.6% Islam. How about that? So a little bit of that, too. A little bit of Islam. It's a liberal place in the county, San Mateo County. 75% of the people, almost 76%, voted Democrat in the last election.

About 18% voted Republican. California. of the people almost 76 voted democrat in the last election about 18 voted republican so california it's yeah well this is also like bay area california it's a different dude that's like yeah very liberal california uh unemployment rate here is about it's it's less than three percent 2.6 percent so there are jobs here yeah and uh you to have one, otherwise you can't afford to live here. So I think that's what it is, basically. But 2.6% is like when economists talk about what's healthy, that's below what's healthy. That's when things start to go bad, is when your unemployment rate is too low. Really?

Yeah, because you can't fill jobs at that point. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, the unemployed. But this sounds like it's probably just 16-year-olds that held over until 17 to get that job. Maybe, yeah. That's possible, too. Yeah, like 2.6% when they start saying, like, okay, we need an influx of more people because there's not enough.

There's a bunch of, like, square pegs and round holes left over where they're like, okay, there's 2.6% of the people that don't fit into these jobs, but that's all it is. We don't have the people we need to fill it. The median household income, normally it's about $54,000 in the country. Here it is $91,000. So much higher, obviously, and they need it, as we'll talk about. A lot of the jobs here are there's tech jobs, professional, scientific, technical services is about three times the average. So high-paying things. Also, health care ranks up pretty high. professional scientific technical services is about three times the average so high paying

things uh also health care is ranks up pretty high that sort of uh that sort of thing uh cost of living 100 is average regular par here this is the highest we've ever had to something go on 100 is average here it is 459 how what is 459 how do you even survive let's see here every groceries are a 110 and things like that and they're pretty normal the transportation's a little high it's in the 100 still though but housing is 1,231 it is 10 times higher than everywhere else average. It is median home cost here, $2,301,600. 216 is the average in the country. It's 10 times that. I don't even know what to say about that.

Even if you're making 90 grand a year, you can't afford a $2.3 million house. How do you fucking make it? You'll have a $300,000 house, which doesn't exist here. This is insane. It's crazy. It's crazy time. That's how nuts real estate's gone in Northern California. Say that median house price again.

$2,301,600. No. I don't even know. No. Fucking justify it, Burling. Justify it. People are paying it. That's how they justify it.

God damn it. These houses are selling. That is ridiculous. 68% of the houses are worth $1 million or more. Unbelievable. It's crazy. It's absolutely bonkers. And we've convinced you, if you've got quite the nest egg and you need to go there.

If you've got more money than cents, let me kick you in the dick and then listen to james and then listen to the burlingame california real estate report your average two-bedroom rental here this is crazy it's normally like $1,200, $1,240. $5,010 for a two-bedroom. I found a one-bedroom, one-bath condo that's 880 square feet. It is the cheapest dwelling for sale in this entire town. $675,000 to live in a very small one-bedroom apartment. For 800 square feet. For 880 square feet. I want to go beat the living shit out of whoever is selling that.

Yeah, just, I'd like to look at your place. Oh, this is real nice. And then just jack them right in the face. Leave them for dead in the bathtub. Keep asking, how dare you? Sorry, there's no bathtub in the stand-up shower because that's all there's fucking room for. I found a two-bedroom, two-bath, 1,650 square feet. Nice little house.

Very clean. Little yard. Little, little, little. Not that huge. 1,650 square feet, but it looks... It all looks very compact. $1,799,000 for this little gem. I want to be sick. That's insane. I want to be sick. We haven't even gotten to the gross story yet. And then, well, it's... Yeah, it's...

Buckle up. I found a five-bedroom, five- a five bedroom five bath 3400 square foot beauty this is a nice house nice layout and it'll cost you three million five hundred ninety five thousand dollars fucking ridiculous so there you go uh things to do here that this is maybe the stupidest thing ever yeah uh and i and i i have two dogs benny and frankie and i love them, but I would never do this. This is the Burlingame Pet Parade. Oh, Christ. No. It starts at 10 a.m.

They march up Broadway. Oh, my God. They do a circle and come back. The parade consists of a leisurely stroll that takes about 30 minutes. Broadway will remain closed to through traffic for another hour after the parade when viewers and participants can enjoy music by participating bands shop at local

stores and enjoy a snack at a restaurant. Can you imagine the novelty dogs that people that can afford a $2 million house? Oh, they're so groomed. Judging will take place during and after the parade. Judges will select approximately six finalists from each category and uh would you like to find out what those categories are the

first pretentious cunt first place is 500 bucks second place is 250 okay uh ribbons will be awarded for the best dressed pet oh jesus the most unusual pet no specific best pet trick best school float as they make floats also uh most original float group or wagon category i don't know what that is a float can be elaborate or as simple as a decorated bicycle or wagon okay so hit that up i'm annoyed two million dollar houses and that just want to go around punching people in this town. Hey, you from Burlingame? Right. Have you lived there since before the real estate boom? Right.

Okay, then I won't punch you. Have you moved there in the last ten years and just attacked them? You're a dickhole. You son of a bitch. I hate you. I don't get it. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here, the property crime here is right on average.

So, that's normal. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. Don't forget that. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about half the average. So they're going to lock shit down when there's that much money around. When you kill people who live in $3 million houses, they find you. They notice. They fucking find you.

Unless you're a rapper. Unless you're Spice One. Yeah, unless you're fucking any rapper, basically. They never find you unless you're a rapper they find you yeah unless you're fucking yeah any any rapper basically they never find that's i read a whole book about the whole tupac and biggie and this guy this guy that was a police officer on the whole thing and they know who did all this they're just like i don't know whatever who gives a shit they're just they shoot each other all the time you know those people and I feel like that's all it is. It's ridiculous. It's fucking crazy.

I want to take a three-legged pit bull with no eyes, like a dog that was used as a bait dog, and I want to walk that shit down the street in this town in their dumb parade. It's a nice gesture to adopt one of those dogs anyway. I want one. Poor things. I want one. Poor dog. I want that. I want to horrify the people in this town. Yeah?

You better not give it most unusual and hurt its feelings, motherfucker. Better give me most interesting pets. Let's talk about some murders. What do you say here? And I say murderers because there's murderers. That's why this is a two-parter. Because there's just too much to do in one episode. To cram it all into one episode

would have just been, there's no room to breathe if we did that. It would have been way too much. It would have just been, I'm going to read real fast through the whole thing and here you go and blah, blah, blah. Here's a bunch of information. So we really need to ingest this

and then it gets crazy. And then we also, in the second episode, we're going to deal with even more murder and then we're going to deal with the post-murder shit, which is what it really takes off into. The rest of the trial and stuff? In prison and everything like that. All right. But this part here, like we said, the whole thing, this is very graphic and extremely disturbing shit.

So you're warned. No complaining. Because I had to, wow, I was not, this was not okay to research. I had to take some breaks reading all of this at once. That's why I said we need to do two parts because I can't handle it all at once. So let's talk about some people. Let's talk about some siblings to start out with. Let's talk about Patsy, who's a girl.

Albert, who's a boy, obviously. Not too many girls named Albert. Very few. And Patsy's only Italian guy is named Pat, that they call Patsy. Right. With some Italian version. Or Irish.

Yeah, he's Pasquale, and they call him Patsy. That's how it is, because I have relatives named Pasquale. They call him Pat. They call him Pat. Right. That's what they call him. When you're drunk, Pasquale doesn't come out. No, that's why they always call Pasquale's Pat.

Right. Anyway, and also Philip. And Philip. Philip. Philip. Is that you? It never stops. He's doing all that gun, man.

It never stops. We have to do the Beverly Hills Cop. Every time I hear Philip. Just look up, look up Beverly Hills Cop Philip scene, and I'm sure it'll come up somewhere. And you'll lose your mind how funny it is. It's fucking hilarious. So this Philip, not so hilarious. Philip Carl J jablonski these are the jablonski children um and uh these people are a goddamn fucking disastrous mess uh they're growing up

jesus christ this is awful they're growing up like uh you know in the in the in the in the 50s and the 40s and uh they have there are different there's different accounts of in the 50s and the 40s. And they have, there are different, there's different accounts of the childhoods here, of this specifically Philip's childhood. But we're going to give, I'll give you both accounts and you can kind of figure out what you think is true or not. But there's different accounts. The sister Patsyy she says that her

father and so this is also what philip says her their father was an abusive alcoholic there's really no there's no doubt that the father was an alcoholic and that he was a a rough guy that's that nobody doubts that but to the extent of it is is very very much, uh, very much in question and very much, uh, contrary stories from different people. Okay. So Patsy here says that he was an abusive alcoholic who beat the shit out of his wife and children. Uh,

he said he, she says he called his wife and daughter whores, uh, all the time while and beat them. Uh, this is, this is bad from the start and this isn't even the bad shit. This is a baseline here.

Grabbed his daughter's breasts and would grab the breasts of his daughter's girlfriends when they would come over. Just like, what is that? Walked by and touched them. And so it got to the point, obviously, where none of her friends wanted to come over anymore

because the awful, abusive, alcoholic father was touching them, apparently. Come over and shake your titty. Yeah, apparently when he would uh have sex with his wife he would beat her or choke her against her will and shit like that right you know put his hands over nose and stuff and you know whatever he got off on that shit he's sadistic this fucking guy uh also uh phil was from what the sister says the most frequently beaten child he got the brunt of everything uh he would try to come between his father and mother when they were fighting to try to get to the father from to to not hit the mother and then get his ass kicked he'd get his ass kicked worse and uh they said that that philip and and patsy and albert would often run away and hide

from their father until the whole thing blew over as alcoholics eventually he's going to sleep it off right and the mother would tell them there was a signal she had that it was safe to come back to the house this is a this is crazy now some people like we said contradict this but this is uh what two of the three siblings say anyway in may of 1980 near, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a

podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine

and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing

up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details

of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts the violence within the family they said it was pretty much

every day the police were frequently called to the house is what patsy says but they refused to intercede because it was back in the day it's the 40s and 50s they were like well it's happening inside your house he works so hard right you know he works hard he comes home yeah no well try not to make him angry and they fucking leave back cheer up bitch cheer up bitch and they leave that's what it was back then that's what cheer up bitch is the most fucking it overlays brilliant thing everything that the attitude toward how they treated like just women if they had a problem back then it was just cheer up bitch i don't know you're not you're you don't have man problems so cheer up and go away imagine how shitty your life would be if he left imagine

that yeah well yeah well then what does he put food on the table well he works hard that's what they would say and that is a fucking ridiculous ridiculous. So they would refuse to do anything about it to protect the mother. Also, the father was cruel to animals, very cruel to animals. They usually are. They said he always carried a gun with him, which is wonderful,

and that he would brandish the gun at his children. Eesh. Also, as he scolded them, so he would hold a gun on his daughter and call her a whore. And grab her tit after. And then her friend's tit. And then her friend's tit, also, as he scolded them, so he would hold a gun on his daughter and call her a whore. And grab her tit after. And then her friend's tits. And then her friend's tits, too.

And I'm sure call them whores as well. This is fucking bonkers. What are you going to do about a whore? This is quite the household to grow up in here. It really is. This is wild. Tell the kids that they're worthless. Also, telling them they didn't deserve to be born and that maybe they don't deserve to live.

And maybe I'll shoot you because you don't deserve to live. So that's a really fucked up situation. And then on top of it to like the added humiliation of like shaking your titty like that. Yeah. And then he's going to touch you. No, it's not silly at all. No, I mean, it sounds stupid. What does that compare to a gun?

It's a feeling. It's a control thing. It's horrible. Oh, God. a control thing. It's horrible. Oh, God. You're trying to own every bit of you. Right. It ruins your everything and makes you think you can't do anything.

That guy's always more powerful than me. That's exactly what this guy's trying to do. And it's funny what ends up happening half the time, half the time not. Half the time, you know, people are protective and go the other way. And then a lot of times, that behavior perpetuates, and whoever you do that to, yeah, it's fucking awful.

So according to Patsy, Phil was sexually molested by, and like I said, this is awful, so nobody be surprised here, sexually molested by a neighbor when he was four or five years old. She also claims the same neighbor molested her. She said that two neighborhood children, Dale and Janice Rierich, were present when the molestation occurred. So she claims it was witnesses to this. Is it their dad? No, no, this is the neighbor. No, it's not their dad.

These were just neighborhood kids. They were just around, too? Yeah, I don't know what the hell kind of weird thing was going on. This is bizarre. It's very bizarre. Patsy described Phil as a quiet kid. She said she also had Albert, she described, as like the goody two-shoes. He was the one who would try to be like, yeah, you don't need to hit me because I did everything right.

He would try to be like, yeah, you don't need to hit me because I did everything right. You know, he would try to please the father. Yeah. He would try to appease him rather than Philip would try to challenge, apparently challenge and say, don't hit mom and shit like that. Whereas, you know, Albert apparently be like, that's a good left hook. You got there, dad. You want to teach me that out in the yard someday? He goes with the flow. Whereas Philip tries to rectify the situation.

Yeah, that's kind of how she describes it. They said, though, that the she said that then Phil would take his aggression out on Patsy and Albert because where's it going to go? Right. It's got to go somewhere. So shit rolls downhill. And he's the baby. No, no. Philip's the oldest.

He's the oldest. And he would take it out on his younger siblings, which makes sense. Also, he would hit them when their parents were gone. Their parents went out. Then Phil would be in charge, and he would be- The aggressor. He'd be asked. Yeah, he would take dad's role is what he would do, because that's the example he had.

And there you go. He's a piece of shit also. So he would get upset when his parents were gone for a long time even as a teenager he would cry patsy said he would cry all the time he was a big crier he was very emotional up and down uh he told patsy when he was a kid and his parents were you know gone all night or something quote they never loved me they always hate me so it's like she he would cry and sob and say shit like that but they don't love me that's why they're gone they hate me like he would cry and sob and say shit like that. They don't love me. That's why they're gone. They hate me. Like he was full of anxiety and everything like that. Apparently, the Jablonskis were the poor family.

They were the neighborhood poor family, like the poorest of the poor families. And this wasn't in an upper class area. At the time, he's living in a lower middle class area, a poor area, and they're the poorest family there. That's never good. they're the poorest family there that's never good they're the poor family the cops show up and the father's an alcoholic and it's that's it's a fucking mess they're also perpetuating that poor lifestyle with the fucking behavior that's oh yeah they're they're just because they're not exponential growth on on shit behavior you don't like rich people rarely portray this behavior you know what i mean even when people are getting happens but it's rare it's well it's more like the outwardly they're not

they're not like uh they won't just beat their kids and scream out in the yard you know what i mean that shit will be like hidden in a large home where you can't hear it right it's a different and it's rarely the family that uh a successful family just doesn't have time for this that's the other thing they have they're doing things and they're not there's usually not a uh an abusive alcoholic stalking amongst them because he's busy i guess making money i don't know and loading up his cars to go to the lake but then again i'm sure there's plenty of fucking rich people who are very awful and abusive and shitbags they think they're above the law so who the hell knows what we're talking about so uh anyway they're the poorest.

Everybody that grew up around him basically described the father as a, quote, brutal gun carrying alcoholic who regularly abused his wife and children and was cruel to animals. That's him in a nutshell. Apart from that last couple of sentences, sounds like a pretty cool dude. And then it goes into this. One person said that the father was the meanest man he ever knew. This is later when he's an adult, when he's 50 years old. He said that man was the meanest man I've ever known.

I've gone 50 years now and looking back, that's the worst one. That's the worst. Saw him early. He didn't know Ted Bundy or anything. Whatever. So another person says that when they were a child, the father ran over this person's puppy and didn't even bother to stop. Oh, my God.

Just kept on fucking going. Just didn't give a shit. Probably flicked a cigarette out the window afterwards and didn't care. Did he drive through the parade? I think it was during the pet parade. It was actually the winner's circle. The puppy had just won. It was a three-legged puppy and it had a trick that it did.

It did like a little pop-spin thing, and it was the best trick, and it won. It was taking its victory lap. It's the saddest thing that's ever happened. This episode's actually about the puppy. He had no back legs. It should be. He had a couple of wheels back there, and the car just ran. Yeah, I hope they probably did good tricks.

They also said that he slaughtered chickens in a sadistic manner. Now, I don't know. Slaughtering a chicken is a pretty gross thing. Pretty sadistic. But apparently, I don't know if he enjoyed it or would take pleasure in it and then was weird about it. Didn't eat it afterwards? I don't know what it was.

Yeah, just did it and was just like, I didn't like that one. Throws it aside and lets it rot in the yard. These breasts are too small. He was looking at me. I hate it when they look at me. He also, once they had a pet pig that was their family pet for years. He killed it and made it for dinner. Jesus.

So that traumatized the kids. He also would shoot and kill the neighbor's cats if they strayed onto his property oh that's an asshole he's an asshole that's a terrible human put a fence up i know cats can jump it but it would discourage them a little they might skirt the fence yeah i don't know but uh would shoot the neighbor's cats that's a complete if you do that you can just fucking stop you're a monster he's a psychopath that's a horrible thing to do my my ex-wife's uncle has a pig and a pot-bellied pig on his ranch out in Queen Creek. He moved out to the middle of fucking nowhere so that he could have all these goddamn animals.

Yeah. And his pig was burrowing under the fence. He fixed the fence all the time, but he went on vacation. The pig burrowed under the fence. The neighbor shot his fucking pig. That's, yeah. You're an asshole. Yeah.

People are assholes. And the cats, that's terrible. It's obviously someone's pet, too. That's something that's supposed to roam anyway. A daughter-in-law, I think it was Albert's wife, a former one of Albert's ex-wives, said that the father grabbed her one-month-old infant and fed it hot sauce. Just because he thought it was hilarious. Stuck the bottle of hot sauce in his mouth. That is pretty funny.

Abstractly, it's funny. But to actually do it is fucking crazy right if somebody grabbed an infant from your arms and stuck hot sauce in your mouth like what the fuck are you doing you'd fucking you'd call the police on that person you'd hit him in the head with something that's a torture and be causing me a problem for later kids either gonna vomit or shit it out screaming and shitting one way or another i've gotta fix this screaming and shitting for hours appreciate that that's your kid for the next two days yeah they said that the people remembered that the kids and the mother would both hide uh from from the father uh the father would beat the shit out of phil the most uh one of the janice

ruric uh person that we said that patsy said witnessed the molestation. She grew up there. She said that she disagrees with this whole thing later on. She says she never saw the father beat any of the kids, but she did hear screaming coming from the house on occasion. She was a neighbor. What do you think that was? Yeah, she also said, this woman said that the man who, this Harold guy, who the sister said molested both of them, this woman said that he didn't have a reputation as a child molester. Because the way Patsy and Phil put it, everyone in the neighborhood knew he was a child molester.

He was like the neighborhood molester. Hey, there's a neighborhood molester. How's it going? And this woman said that that was never anything anybody heard. Nobody said to stay away that guy and he wasn't known as that of any sort of diddler and uh she said she did not witness that molestation described by patsy so she disagrees here and and as as okay uh yeah molestation like that when when you experience it, sometimes you insert, your brain disassociates. So you can, she may not have been the one that witnessed it.

That's the other thing. She may have put her there. Especially if you're a five-year-old child and it's years later. In that girl's mind, she might be remembering her there. Somebody was there. This is 25 years later.

This is all coming up. So it's all, so who the fuck knows. Your mind does crazy things to you with trauma, especially with childhood trauma. And in that particular sense of trauma, your brain, your brain protects you. Yeah. Protects tries to protect your psyche with with putting your brain goes, oh, this is going to fuck you up so bad.

You don't need to know that. We're going to we're going to go ahead and put that on the shelf. Put that in the room behind the little curtain there you go with the porn put that back there so uh albert also he says that the he disagrees and says the father did not abuse him or phil uh although he did use a belt as punishment but that was normal back then that was just like oh yeah you know getting the belt fuck is going on so uh they said his father drank beer or Albert says his father drank beer and was abusive toward the mother. And that Albert knew he knew the Harold guy, the neighbor, and said that Harold never tried to molest him. And he never heard that he tried to molest Philip or Patsy also.

OK, so there's disagreements there. Everybody says that as a teenager Phil was a nice guy. He was quiet and kept to himself. Considered nice. He was very anxious though. Everybody said he was very anxious which kind of backs up Patsy and Phil's

theory of the father pulling guns out on them at the drop of a hat that may kind of make you anxious. You generally don't turn into that guy. You know what I mean? You are made that guy. That's oh, absolutely.

Kids don't come out like that. So one person said that he was, quote, scared all the time, just always scared. He burst into tears for kids. Don't do that. That's they've been abused. Usually when that happens, other people said that he was thin and pale and always ill looking as a child because they were very poor also and malnutrition and that he was a lonely child who cried all the time. So that's that's what he was known as. One person says did say this is crazy from their teenage years.

One of their friends said that he saw Phil and his sister patsy have consensual sex okay on two different occasions and also said that the two of them bragged about it and thought it was quote funny it's funny it's not funny it's not haha funny i'll tell you that much that is horrible it's i was associating with philip yeah a lot well you're not he's not your kind of guy jimmy let's put it that way i understood everything going on in his mind right up until let's fuck my sister that's uh this that's why i warned everybody because everybody's got their own shit that bothers them and jimmy has talked openly about his trauma plenty of issues as a child and there's a lot of that there going on and so yeah i could

see you you relating to that and uh then there's this though that's a weird that's a weird thing now uh let's see what philip says here now there's extensive writings from philip and uh normally we don't give like the killers like a voice that much unless it's something that's kind of insightful or if it's just dry it's or if it's i don't know what it's you kind of need to hear the way he puts things to know who the fuck this guy is what kind of killer he's not a killer what kind of monster he is killing right now is his sister yeah he's he's killing it there uh let's see what he says about this whole thing and this this is pretty bad here this is very graphic he says and this is a quote when i was five years old i was molested by my two male cousins

they were babysitting me when i told my dad he confronted them he believed them when they told him i made the whole thing up i got a serious beating for lying uh when they babysat me again so his dad beat him up for lying and then they babysat him again. They put him back. He said, quote, they punished me. They bound me lightly and introduced me to mild torture. After that, I kept my mouth closed. This gets really bad.

They passed me around to their friends and older men and older boys in the neighborhood. How many fucking child molesters are in this neighborhood? that's what i think what he starts to exaggerate some of this shit because but i mean this is what he's trying to portray and we don't know so that's a bit much yeah he said they owned me until i was seven years old i was not broken yet uh until i was 12 years old uh my dad owned apartments and he rented one apartment to a high school teacher. My dad hired him as my tutor. And I was doing bad in school work. During our first tutor session, he locked the door and told me to strip or he'd do it for me.

He said he stripped me and made me crawl into the bedroom slapping my petite butt cheeks with my back of my hand uh then he told me what then he told me he's going to sodomize me yeah uh whoa he didn't say it like that well that's how he put it yeah also it's hard to smack your butt cheeks with the backside of your hand i don't know how your back hand and yourself i don't know how he's doing that what's going on there but i don't know the logistics of the whole thing but i'm fucking nauseous i'll tell you that much he's calling himself saying he's got a little petite ass that's what he says yeah he's very flattering flattering of himself he is he also describes his butt as bright pink at one point which is uh you need a tan fucking horrible here uh he said after that he enjoyed me everywhere

but worse uh he told me to fuck his son which i don't know what that means he said after that he was obsessed with men's dicks uh and he said and then he introduced me to serious bondage and torture uh then he taught he then he told me to dress in panties and a bra with foam titty breasts built into them well which do you like men or women bro and how to wear makeup well that's the thing he's pretty fluid and we'll find out that's what happens to phil too is he doesn't give a shit really one way or the other he said only only a few johns requested me to dress like a girl he's saying this guy was pimping him out wow to these people quote he pimped me to two men for the night they used me so bad uh they teach me to deep throat a male dick they

give me a serious face fucking that's what he says and we're laughing out of uncomfortableness not out of a child being face fucked but so okay so this is horrific he wrote this himself this is what his that his writing and i'm with the word for word, obviously. Do we know when he wrote that? And shit? Yes. Yes.

Later on. This is later in life. Way later. This is, uh, and this is when he's in prison. Okay. Later on.

That's the stuff he wrote. He's right. Yeah. Two people, by the way, my Christ, just as a foreshadow, people,

several different people were writing to both him and richard ramirez the night stalker who if you've ever heard his story is absolutely sadistic horrific motherfucker uh after a while they both had to stop writing to philip because he was his letters were too disturbing and they stuck with the night stalker they're like the richard ramirez is a nice boy compared to that sicko jablonski he's a sick fuck. Like, he's that sick, this fucking guy. This is unbelievable. I don't know how this guy isn't excessively famous, because what he does is, the rampage he goes, it's horrific.

It's absolutely horrific. So he said, they took my pride from me. I was now totally broken. And they took exotic photos of me and tell me if i say anything they would show them to my parents the teacher hurt me until i was 14 years old at 15 i pimped myself for the first time um i broke the neighbor's car windshield and went to knock on their door his wife and her husband was in the guest house his wife said her husband was in the guest house i mowed their lawn and weeded their garden

and some odd jobs for her, I guess to pay back the windshield. He says, when I knocked on the guest house door, he invited me in to my doom. After I told him I broke his windshield, he said he would have to tell my dad. He really didn't want to, but I had no way to pay to replace the windshield.

He said if he told my dad, I would get a serious beating. My dad would have a hard time paying for a replacement. He said, but their way was to avoid the beating by my dad. He told me he knew my interest in boy bodies. And if I were to get in bed with him, I could encourage him not to tell my dad. He said he'd been checking my ass out and liked how it filled out in my pants uh this is like the beginning of a porn movie oh he talks that's what i mean to him to him it's almost like a fucking i don't even know how to describe it he's taking this and fetish fetishized

the whole thing rather than been like this is a horrible thing it twisted it in the other way as we know how all this shit twists in kids' minds when bad things happen to them. Yeah. He told, he said, he told him, the guy told him that he was gay and that he was obsessed with male dicks. The guy told him, he keeps saying,

everybody's obsessed with male dicks. He's obsessed, this guy's obsessed with dicks. Male dicks. Who else has dicks? All right, there's no with male dicks. He's obsessed. This guy's obsessed with dicks. Male dicks. Who else has dicks? All right. There's no female dick. Yeah.

Just say dick. Yeah. It's like the Wu-Tang lyric. Right. Teach the truth to the young black youth. You said it already. All right. You don't need to say it twice.

Is there younger youth? Is that what it is? Is that what it is? Yeah. You can't say that. You can't teach both. So anyway, sorry, Inspector Deck. That's a great lyric. It's a great song.

It's just that one lyric. It's just those two words together. It's a great song. It's just that one lyric. It's those two words together. It's a bit redundant. Come on, man. So, yeah, he said that he then Jesus Christ. Yeah, he said he he then had oral sex with this man. He said we slept together for the first time. And then he Philip describes himself as this man's loyal sexy play toy um he said that oh my

goodness jesus christ i just i enjoy the discomfort on this is so bad i fucking yeah he said that uh basically talks about how this guy would sodomize him all the time uh or he would suck him off all the time he said he had me for four months. Four months for one piece of glass? For a fucking windshield. Jesus. Yeah. How much value is he putting on his butthole? I don't know.

Not much. And everywhere else. Not much, apparently. Is it 10 cents at a time? I don't know. Four months? Four months for a windshield, apparently. That is way too much.

But I mean, at that point, I don't think the windshield was a factor anymore. I think he was just enjoying it. Yeah. Or that he didn't know. No, no, not Philip. Yeah, the't think the windshield was a factor anymore. I think he was just enjoying it. Yeah. Or that he was didn't know. No, no, not Philip. Yeah. The other guy. Yeah.

Yeah. So he says at 16, I pimped myself again when I was a cuddler. He says, I pimp myself to a fucker. I was cuddling for fun. He said he asked me if I knew where we could pick up a male prostitute. We wanted a prostitute that would agree to videotape or act on and photograph an exotic pose and spend the weekend with him. I told him that I was a prostitute and agreed to his terms.

Oh, you're looking for a prostitute. What a coincidence. Listen, you're not going to believe how here's my card. Check all my references are flawless. What the fuck fuck it's like talking to michael jordan being like i need an unbelievable basketball player you're not gonna believe your luck you're in luck buddy uh so he says when we got to the motel he opened up the door and i got a big surprise there was five more men waiting to use me oh that's not a surprise so

he says that they had a uh just basically a gangbang on him. And he said they paid me $200. Now he talks about his other childhood things. He said, I had raped two sisters. That's too much. Yes, that's two. You can't rape. That's too, too much.

He said, I was 10. One of the girls was nine and the other one was four. Not his sisters. Not his sisters. Did you say four? Four. Nine and four when he was 10 uh yes then he said when he was 12 he got one of these sisters to help him seduce the neighbor's nine-year-old to like recruit this because he's got this abuse he's abused this person into making it's fucking horrific is there anybody in this town that just waits to fuck

and fucks consensually there's nobody there's no parents there's nobody watching because back then you just let your kids go outside so i mean if there's three molesters in the neighborhood they run wild and when the kids say that guy touched me they go you know he didn't that's shut up don't say that don't make that shit up because they don't want it to be true it's a nice man yeah back then it was just they didn't want it to be true because the way they thought if you watch like mad men it's all about how shit looks yeah if it's not if it's yeah if they didn't want it to be true because the way they thought if you watch like Mad Men, it's all about how shit looks. If you don't make it true, it's not true. It's not true.

And it's a matter of whether they molested the kid or not. If we talk about it, then everyone's going to know about it. And then we're all going to be embarrassed on top of them being molested. So it really doesn't matter. It's not true. Exactly. Fucking ridiculous. So, yeah, she said her best friend uh jesus christ

he said that her best friend and oh my goodness jesus her best friend and some other guy then raped his mother philip's mother uh they said he said quote they talked they all talked about fucking my mother in her huge ass okay he's he's got he's talking about some weird crazy sex thing that i i don't know where it i feel like part of it's true right part of it it stops at some point and then he takes it and goes with another he wants to fuck you up you know what i mean he wants to ruin your thought that's what he's doing yeah exactly uh exactly uh he says jesus christ at that point he says that he gets obsessed with younger boys and younger girls and all that sort of thing uh he says that he loved quote i was a pimp i love to pimp young stuff he said that his teacher that guy uh lended him a press camera so he could learn to take family

portraits in the 1960s and 70s and he said basically i'm not gonna fucking read what he said because it's just i it's just fucking i want to strangle this man he took pictures of what he took pictures he took pictures of infants and he would tell the mothers oh yeah it's cute you put them naked on the on the bare skin rug and then he gets off on naked fucking infants and then he said he would have you know the mother leave the room for some reason while he's taking pictures and then he would do things to the baby and take pictures that he wanted to take of the baby and keep them for himself and shit like that this is what he says it's fucking disgusting he says quote if the mother left the room their infant was fair game that's his fucking quote i i i i don't i don't oh my god i can't and and just from

his stories before you can just imagine the horrible things he did to these babies jesus well he says he don't this was what the when he was taking the photos he would just touch them and not just He would just touch them. Not just, but he would touch them and take photos of them and things like that. Drop his dick next to their head or whatever. Who knows what the fuck his sick shit goes. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

He says I would focus. He also wanted to pimp other kids. He said, I focused on foster kids, runaway, junior and high school students, and some mature male and females uh now also patsy says that when she was 14 and phil was 16 he came up behind her and put a rope around her neck and threw her on the bed and said quote i'm gonna get some of that off of you is what he said to her uh she said that he had an erection and she thought that he was going to rape her which i would say yeah because i'm a hard dick saying i'm gonna get some of that off of you after they just choked you with a rope pretty solid conclusion uh he she said he started coming

at her and then suddenly he stopped and be broke down crying and apologizing and you know crumbled to the floor and all that shit. And said he didn't know what he was doing. She said she told the parents about the incident and the father beat the living shit out of him, obviously. And that's a beating I endorse. I endorse that. If your son does that to your daughter, you should probably, I don't even know what the correct thing to do is. But a beating is to start with.

The right answer is police involvement. I was going to say while the cops are coming i think you're beating at that point though i'm saying i don't know when the beating comes or in what context as a whole i was there's hitting involved off of her yeah there's going to be some slapping at least and it's going to be you guys handcuff him and take him uh jesus christ so uh in high school he belonged to the Cadet Corps in school, which is like the ROTC type shit. And in 1966, he enlists in the Army, which in 1966, enlisting in the Army means you are going to Vietnam at that point. And he ends up going to Vietnam.

Now, before he goes, this guy's going to Vietnam. We're unleashing this lunatic on Vietnam. Yeah, and we're going, here's a gun oh my god do your damnedest i don't know it's a jungle fucking yeah this is what i mean this is fucking crazy ass oh yeah uh he ends up in in psych hospitals and everything he ends up being an mp but like us yeah that guy that guy a police man wow this sick fuck imagine him with handcuffs what do you do to people in a country that we're we don't care what you do to them just go yeah what this is fucking crazy now before that he uh to tell you about at when he's this is when he's 17 we'll

talk about this this is his adult sexuality and we the only reason i'm telling you this this is not gratuitous is because this behavior and and certain certain little things certain little tells that he has his nuances certain signatures that he has actually uh are are come out later on okay so we need to tell his story here this is his story and uh that he wrote in jail and it's on it's called he he titles it quote my first fuck with a large fat woman another another not his first fuck at all this is just his first fuck first time fucking a quote large fat woman listen he's a white inspected deck calm down with the with this is awful i don't even it's again with the with the same meaning same word same meaning stop it he this is fucking horrible okay but i'm gonna i'm gonna read this word for word because it's important because this is his adult shit that

make this is the beginning of his his uh his whole pattern here uh quote this whole thing's a quote i'll tell you about my first fuck with a large fat woman i was 17 years old and would fuck anyone with a pussy or a tight anal i would hope everyone has a tight anal but no one's walking around with a loose anal i hope just fucking boots falling out and shit i like that he said anal rigatonis like I don't know what's going on. He doesn't know. All right. The word cavity is missing or anus. It's not an anal, sir.

There's no body part of an anal. He's not the most educated. You heard what he was doing in school and at home. I feel like he wasn't doing homework. I feel like bad things were happening. He says, quote, especially real boys. I don't know. Now back to this woman.

Quote, she was the owner of a Chinese restaurant. I was a dishwasher and driver. So this is an Asian woman, presumably. One night she asked me to drive her to her apartment. When we arrived, she invited me in. Her big mistake. Once inside, we sat on the couch and I had my hands all over her. She said, you don't waste any time, do you? I was told she was going to slip into something more comfortable. I mean, that's terrible.

Do hippos sweat? I don't think they do sweat. I think they have another form of... Body coolant or something? I mean, she sweated so much it was like just fucking water. I thought I would slide off her and she kept pleading for me to come. This is, it gets graphic. Sorry, everybody.

Quote, I punched the hippo and this is fucking horrible. We don't mean, we're not laughing at that. It's so... It's hilarious. bow and this is fucking hard we don't mean we're not laughing at that it's so it's how we have to explain how it's so just awful that it's if you don't laugh it's i don't even know i should probably explain to my great-grandmother thing at this point real quick in case you're a new listener uh we laugh when we're uncomfortable with horrible things because that's just how we're programmed because we've had we both had traumatic shit shit happen. Jimmy's explained his traumatic shit, you know, that's just much similar to, uh, Phillips,

uh, childhood. Damn near identical. Uh, uh, mine. I just, I was talking about my dark sense of humor came. My grandmother, great grandmother, uh, had her throat cut. Uh, got tied up. Someone broke into her house, uh, tied her up, robbed her and cut her throat. It was an 85 year old woman.

So at her funeral they had uh a shitload of uh like a pearl necklace it was like wrapped around her neck like nine times to hide the giant gaping fucking neck wound that they couldn't cover you know somebody failed mortician school so i don't know how hard that is to do but apparently it was pretty bad right uh so i was standing there at the casket with one of my cousins and looked over and i said well if she was wearing that in the first place none of us would have to be here right now and we laughed because i didn't know what else to do it's the greatest and that's why we that's that's that's where these laughs come from it's the exact same place i feel like so he's punching

hippos so i punched the hippo and said you're lucky i'm fucking you you'll get my cum when i want to give it to you oh i mean you could say that to anybody it doesn't necessarily have to be a hippo no he said then i put it in her ass i called her a fat a fucking fat whale and a hippo and the worst fuck i ever had while punching her in her monster breasts i got off the bed and she asked me if i would spend the night with her. Well, you weren't her worst, apparently. I told her I would under my conditions. She had to crawl to me and lick my balls, then my dick.

She said she would agree, but she preferred to just put her lips around my dick. She told me she never had a dick in her mouth. I don't know if your lips are around a dick. It's definitely in your mouth. I tell you, that's like if you got nuts on your chin you know it's a dick in your mouth yeah so uh once she had her lips around my dick she was in for a big surprise i slowly slid my big dick to the back of the slut's mouth and down her throat this is fucking horrific like penthouse yeah like a horrible fucking terribly written remedial penthouse forum this is awful it's like an eight-year-old thinking this is how hot letters like a 13 year old who just figured out what fucking was like oh i saw porn once i gave her

a serious face fucking to the point where she was choking and could hardly breathe then i held her nose and buried her face in my groin until she swallowed my cum oh jesus i hit her in the face and dropped her to the floor and kicked her in the stomach twice and told her to crawl into the bedroom i told her to get up and bend over she didn't know it was happening until i spread her large ass cheeks she said phil please not there she twisted and pulled away but i held her firm i had her hair in my hand. She couldn't escape me. She screamed and pleaded for me to stop the pain. I didn't show her

any mercy. I picked up my belt and beat her all over her body until there was welts everywhere. Then I introduced her to bondage and torture. Now there's more? There's more. This is when it gets really bad. This is when his signatures start kicking in here. Then I introduced her to bondage and torture.

I got my pocket knife and severed her nipple and quote, sliced the slut's pussy. Oh, my God. I made her crawl all over her apartment telling me she was my slut and sex slave. She begged me for more sessions. Okay. And that's the end of it. I don't believe that there was more. I think. Well, he has a thing with the nipple as we'll talk about yeah oh yeah he likes them huh well is this

a vietnam thing uh well he this dude this is so fucked up that's the worst oh my god so while in high school before he joined the military he did meet a girl phil meets a girl that's willing to spend time with him yeah voluntarily okay he doesn't have to like trap her in a closet and you know poke her with a cattle prod nothing like that a nutty chick is this no well her name is alice mcgowan uh they meet in high school after high school he meets he joins the military sent overseas uh he returns in 1968 and alice and phil get. That's kind of how it's the 60s. It's kind of how it was. It wasn't like it was just like, well, he came back. So we're getting married now. This guy, this monster survived Vietnam. This guy. Yeah, he survived Vietnam.

He actually did. So McGowan, when he gets back, they get married upon them getting married. when he gets back, they get married. Upon them getting married, Alice lives for two months with his parents in California. So think about that. That crazy fucking household. His new wife lived there while he was on base because he had just

got back and it was the whatever. He was going through the processes. Phil allows her to stay with his dad? Can you imagine? I'm sure he's trying to feel her up and everything. And then he ends up, she ends up joining him in Texas, where he's posted at the time near El Paso. We'll talk about some shit he does there that are still open cases that are crazy. What a terrible place.

So according to Alice, yeah, El Paso's awful. We've talked about that. El Paso is a terrible place. They should thank Christ for Juarez. Yeah. Making it tolerable to live in El Paso. that el paso is a terrible place they said they should thank christ for juarez yeah make it making it tolerable to live in el paso when you talk about anyone being murdered and then you add in it was in el paso you're like ah the last breath they took was bastard last air was el paso they looked up and saw el paso around them before they died oh that poor son of a bitch that poor bastard

that makes it worse yeah it's so much worse. Oh, Christ. Took in El Paso. He goes, I died in El Paso. Skyline. So Alice says that he returned from overseas to Fort Bliss, Texas is where he was for a while. She said he was a changed man at that point. Completely different guy. Night and day.

She said he was like kind of sweet and quiet before to her. Very quiet. Very sweet. Very not domineering. Very passive. Yeah. With her. Very quiet, very sweet, very not domineering, very passive with her. You know, very sweet. Data male. Yeah, with her. He was just very like nice, treated her with respect and was like nice to her like nobody else he's treated. She said he got back from Vietnam.

The switch was flipped. Different guy, different look in his eye, the whole deal. And I mean, that happened to people. And later on, too, he claims a lot of post-traumatic stress disorder and he's diagnosed he's no stranger to psychiatric hospitals and and you know psych visits and prison wards and shit so he gets a lot of uh evaluations and uh he's got some post-traumatic stress disorder problems from vietnam which is normal i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper.

In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church

for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. She said he was really mean. She also said, Alice said that she, quote, wasn't sure all the time whether he was really with it or not. So just not, he just turned into a different guy. He'd have the thousand yard stare. He just, are you there? Oh yeah, sorry. Like he's off in another place face on all the time yeah he's off in another place she also said once she moved to texas he became violent during sex which wasn't

like that before uh she said on one occasion he put a pillow over her face while they were having sex and tried to suffocate her on other occasions he grabbed her throat and strangled her until she became unconscious while they were having sex uh not and she wasn't like choke me you know she wasn't fucking asking for this at all this was a uh you know involuntary she was asking the opposite could you please not do that thank you uh once he came into the bathroom while she was taking a bath and tried to drown her in the tub just out of nowhere burst through the door and started fucking trying to drown her in the bathtub. My Christ.

Lucky for her, she was strong and soaking wet and slippery. Maybe she just soaked up or something. And on another occasion, while she was pregnant. Why is there another occasion? While she was pregnant, Jimmy, this man's going to be a father. Oh, by the way, this isn't the only time he'll be a father. Oh, my God. Someone's going to be a father. Oh, by the way, this isn't the only time he'll be a father. Someone's going to get.

Wow. He began to strangle her until his own mother convinced him to stop choking this woman who's carrying his child to death. He's strangling a pregnant woman in front of mom in front of his own mother. I don't even know what to say about that. He says about the about the relationship and his and his thing here. Quote, I tried to murder Alice five times, once by drowning her, twice by strangling her, once with a cord and once with my bare hands, and twice by suffocating her, once with a pillow and once with my hands. She survived my many attempts to murder her.

What are the chances that she ever uttered the phrase, Philip, you've changed? Philip, you've changed, man. You changed, Phil. What are you doing with all that good? What are you doing with all that good, man? uttered the phrase philip you've changed philip you've changed man you changed phil are you doing all that good doing all that good man so jesus uh november of 68 uh alice is gone she leaves him takes the kid and leaves thank the lord here uh leaves uh he becomes with another becomes involved with another woman he meets a in November of 1968 another woman, a woman named Jane Sanders. On their first date, he raped her. Date one.

Date one, he raped her. She did not report the rape because she was ashamed and it was the 60s. She instead kept going out with him this is like a lot like the richard kuklinski story when he talks about uh stabbing his wife in the in the in the tit with a knife uh on a fucking date saying you know whatever you're gonna not go anywhere with it and she stated that that was like a that's a jersey girl though that's a different that's a different yeah that's a good point she said ah my dad pulled the knife on me yeah so thoughtful this though this is joking aside this is fucking crazy she doesn't report the rape she stays with him uh turns out for four years she stays with him after that's a red flag by the way uh first date rape that's a

red flag i would say right there call the police uh you know shit i mean good god fuck so uh No shit. I mean, good God. Fuck. So 1969, Jane is pregnant with another fucking kid. He leaves the military at this point. By the way, Jane, he meets her when he was a military police officer. He's an MP, and he was in the psych ward, and she was his therapist. My word. So this whole relationship is completely inappropriate from a power balance right away she should not be engaging with her as fuck the whole thing is wrong he said that when he got out of the ward uh uh he asked her out and raped her that's the way he put it when i got out of the ward i asked her out and raped her

like it was like took her out for a burger uh she didn't report the rape he says her girlfriends many didn't know uh she said one of the girlfriends i guess helped set them up and she said quote she set jane up to be raped uh she got pregnant we have a son chris and a daughter robin uh so this is insane this is a lot to take in this is a fucking lot so jesus uh yes the therapist here so uh uh wow uh they she's pregnant he leaves the military and relocates to california back to where he's from uh lives with his parents for a little while and then they move into their own house and she says that their sex life was just violent and everything. On one occasion, they were having sex and she wanted to stop. So he pulled out a pistol and threatened to shoot her if she didn't continue, which is not okay. Let's just say that right off the top.

Another time in the middle of it, he struck her with the butt of a gun during sex, rendering her unconscious. And when she came to, he was still having sex with her. Yeah, he was still lying in bed. That was how that goes. Wow. During this relationship with her, he's seeing at the VA hospital, the Veterans Hospital, he's seeing a psychiatrist, and he's taking daily medication. However,

they said he exhibited odd behavior, including one time forgetting his children at a shopping mall. Went to the mall with his kids and then just left and forgot he was with his kids and he was they were she got he got home and they were like where are the kids and he's like oh shit that's right i knew i was forgetting something i thought it was i thought i needed socks but then i remembered i took two kids there air filters turns out it was children uh fuck me man so on another occasion uh uh over her objection

he tied her to the bed while they were having sex and just left her there uh and then it's the same thing with alice his first wife he smothered her with a pillow with a pillow until she was unconscious during intercourse uh she said that she became afraid that if he actually smothered her their children would be left alone with him obviously a fucking monster and he'd forget him somewhere uh yeah uh she now he claims that she wanted him to torture her and she liked prolonged bondage when she says no i didn't didn't ask for it didn't want it uh in his mind his game it's yeah and i don't know what it is. She was just going along with it as far as she could.

Yeah. Just because he liked it. It's fucking crazy. So she left him in 1972. Shortly before she left, he became angry with her and threw a frying pan filled with hot grease at her. No. Yes, the pan missed. Thankfully.

So she picked up the pan and hit him with it while he charged at her, knocked him out cold, took the kids and fucking took off. And that's how she got away from him. That's an awesome way to get away from somebody, to hit him with a big cast iron frying pan. The dong. Imagine the satisfaction in that fucking dong. Bong!

And the following poof on the ground. That must have been like, hallelujah. Oh, my God. The victory in that. Take your kids and fucking run. Holy shit. When somebody is knocked out, that crumple. When it's like in box, you see people get knocked out.

And they're still moving around. They daze. When it's crumpling, it's amazing. And especially when he's this guy right and you hit him with a satisfying fucking frying back then frying pans weren't little light teflon it was a goddamn cast iron that shit weighed 12 pounds that's a blow that that'll mess your head up so you'll have to wonder on your drive out yeah is his skull cracked it's gotta be gotta be correct he's leaking brain fluids in there right right? At least out of his ears.

So later in 1972, he meets a woman named Marsha and her husband. They become friendly, whatever, when he sold them dogs. He worked at a company that trained security guard dogs. And these people bought dogs from the company, and he was their salesperson. Shepherds or Dobermans? They were security dogs, yeah. So he delivered dogs to their house, and he was their salesperson. Shepherds or Dobermans? They were security dogs, yeah. So he delivered dogs to their house, and he taught them how to handle them and shit, and he was the kind of go-between guy. This guy now with attack dogs.

Oh, boy. Jesus Christ. Talk about hell. He's like, he's turning into literally the devil here. So on December 17, 1972, he came over their house, even though the husband had asked him not to because he was going to be at work. He said, I'll be at work, so don't come over that night. And he said, okay. And then he came over that night on purpose.

So he sat and talked with Marsha, Phil did, about the problems they were having with one of the dogs. Philip told her to watch from the bedroom window while he worked with the dog outside in the yard watch what i do through the window and you can copy me after that so when she got to the bedroom window he wasn't outside instead he came up behind her and put a knife to her throat uh just crept up behind her and ordered her to undress and threatened to kill her children unless she complied which is not what she expected at all uh then he raped her at knife point uh during the rape he struck her in the face with the handle of the knife like the butt end of it he hit her with it and fractured her orbital bone wow which is fucking awful i know a person who fractured their orbital bone we both do and it's a terrible injury and awful recovery oh by

the way andy's she's being horribly raped also, which is even worse. The other part is like he's doing this. Does he expect to get away? She's got a husband. She's going to have to tell him why her orbital bone is fucking broken. I would say, yeah. Later, he stays for a while, hangs out. Later, with her eight-month-old baby in the room, he decides to take another shot at her,

ties her arms behind her back and sodomizes her as well oh my god so uh uh he tells her that his wife just left him and he didn't know why he was doing this but he had already started and she could identify him that's what he said which is a bad thing to hear oh jesus apparently the dog started barking outside and he told her to bring the dog inside the house and threatened to kill her if she didn't come back inside with the dog, or threatened to kill her kids. So he said, I'll be in here with your kids, so you go get the dog, and if you take off, I'm going to kill your fucking kids in here.

So she went outside, acted like she was getting the dog, and took off to a neighbor's house. Atta girl. So the neighbor, apparently, was, this guy is ready for action. He apparently had a gun real handy, grabbed his gun and went outside just as Phil was coming out of the house. So this guy fucking cocked his shotgun and said, I would hold it right there if I were you and called the police and held Philip at gunpoint until the sheriff arrived. And he was arrested. Philip was. And when he was arrested, he told the police right away, quote, I don't know why I did it. My wife just left me, which is, by the way, not an excuse at all.

There is no excuse, but that's really. He then told a detective, quote, I didn't know what I was doing at the time. Everything was blanked out for me, and I just wasn't myself. I figured to myself under a doctor's care and supervision that it would never happen again so he's like i just went crazy for a minute sometimes you know what i mean sometimes you just get like a lapse you go wacky and you hold a broad at knife point threaten to kill her children and fucking forcibly sodomize her you know that goes it's we all have done it i mean come on so i'll tell you what we'll do you get a piece of paper i'll tell you what we're gonna do

and then we'll do that we'll do like an iou I'll tell you what we're going to do. And then we'll do that. We'll do like an IOU. Like I owe you not to do this anymore. And I promise you just get me a doctor. We'll talk about it for a while and then we'll be good. All right. Have a good one, buddy. Thanks. Thanks for what they did. No, they absolutely didn't.

They they they said that they did not observe anything abnormal about his mental functioning or he was didn't seem to be any different than any other suspect they brought in for questioning. Apart from being a fucking psycho. Yeah. He's sent to prison, thankfully. Good, good, good. So they didn't take his deal?

No. They said, you know what? We'll take part two where you promise to not do it ever again. But part one, instead of just you shake our hands and leave, we're going to go ahead and just put you in prison. And while you're there, you can talk to the doctor if you want. Oh, there's a bunch of them there. But you're going to be in prison. You won't. We're going to go ahead and just put you in prison. And while you're there, you can talk to the doctor if you want. Oh, there's a bunch of them there.

But you're going to be in prison. You're going to be in a box. They won't be. They'll leave. They'll put you in a cage. They'll come in in their Toyota Camry

every morning and park it and then go in in their cardigan and then they'll leave at the end of the night and go home and have boring sex with their wife.

And you'll sleep exactly where you live. We'll be in the same place. You'll smell another man's ass. Yes, you will. Absolutely. Absolutely. Actually, he won't because we'll find out he's putting different housing for.

We'll talk about lunatics. No. Well, we'll talk about why. Very much into the pen pal program here. A woman named Mary became acquainted with him through her participation in a letter writing program to prisoners organized by her prayer group. Oh, Jesus. Let's reach out to these prisoners.

Her prayer group in Zionville, Indiana. Of course. She corresponded with him. He's in prison, obviously, for the rape. He's released, and he invited Mary to come visit him, and she agreed. Yeah, of course. Because they've been talking. Because, you know, you want to trust him.

He seems like a nice guy. She made it clear to him from the start that she was not coming to have sex. Oh, yeah. She said, I'm a supporter of yours and I'm friendly. No problem. Come on by. Come on by. On her third day of the visit, Philip told her that because she's been so sincere and

heartfelt about helping him, he's going to be honest with her. So I'm going to level with you. Wow. Listen here. I don't even know what to say here. Listen here, yeah so i'm going to level with you uh wow listen here i don't even know what to say here listen here mary i'm going to level with you he said quote uh a week before you arrived i dug your grave uh i invited you here to kill you i mean i'm going to be perfectly frank here he goes i can show you the grave if you want it's in the backyard and she said that's okay i trust you she said i'm good thanks you don't need to show me i'm gonna be honest with you i dug your grave i dug your grave a week before you came here like this has all been planned uh you were just just waiting on you

it's got three inches of water it's been raining like crazy just waiting on you to kill you and put you in there and then but so yeah he said that uh she declined uh he then said he planned to kill her but because she's been so nice to him and so sincere like nobody ever has he decided against going through with it he can't do it he said i'm sorry you're just too nice to kill yeah i can't do it so but but on the next day the fourth day of her visit uh he came into her room while she was sleeping yeah she woke up to him standing there uh yeah i know that would be how do you go to bed how do you stay night i'm gonna be honest with you cool gotta go we watch johnny carson good night i'm real tired i'm real tired there's

not a fucking holiday in this town for christ's sake jesus how do you go cool i'm gonna turn gotta go now let's talk about this in the morning but she said like she's so trusting really nice that she said well he's being honest with me. Why would he tell me he's going to kill me? And then I wouldn't matter. But that's her thinking. So she wakes up with him standing there asking her to have sex with him. Yeah.

So it's escalated to that. She said, no, she wouldn't. He kept asking and asking. But he wasn't, like, forcibly physically assaulting her. Very geez and sorry. Yeah, very. Yeah. He's just he's encouraging her to.

Just a little pushy. A little meh. Eventually, we don't know what happened there. Eventually, I have no clue. I don't know enough about that to make jokes about it either. The only thing I know is that some girl went on a date with him. Yeah, I heard it was a pushy, but I don't know what happened. He yanked her out of dinner.

They didn't even eat their $300 dinner because he wanted to fuck. Well, he's not funny, so he's got that going for him. I don't really care. I mean, I care what he does. I don't know what happened there. I know he's not funny. So I can hate him for that and then just add the rest of it on top. You can just add the rest.

Whether it happened or not, I hate him anyway. So fuck him. I hate him more if he did it but you know either way the only thing i hate the most is that he it is in his latest thing that he did in new york some stand-up special he said that uh i was i was ending sets with thank you but i didn't mean it you did what what are you talking about shut up fuck you thank you for pretending i'm funny because you think that people think I'm supposed to be funny. How much did you mean grateful somebody bought a ticket to see you, you fucking asshole? Awful.

That's what stand-ups go. I don't think so. Okay, never mind. Moving on. We could talk about that all night. So instead, we're in a horrible room with a horrible guy. So eventually, to placate him, just to calm him down and whatever. She let him tie her hands and feet

with knitting yarn, which she thinks she figured she could break the string if necessary. So it's like he feels good and I can get out if I need to. Everybody's happy. A few wraps. That shit's tough.

I was going to say, if it's nylon, it'll pull and you can't. I got a scarf that somebody made me. I don't think I could tell you. No, probably. Well, this is hopefully not, if it's nylon, it'll pull and you can't. I got a scarf that somebody made me. I don't think I can tell you. No, probably. Well, this is hopefully not a whole scarf's worth, but still. After he ties her up, he leaves the room, which had to be frightening, and he returns

with a straight razor, which is not what you want. Those are dangerous. When you know there's a grave dug already, because it's already dug. I mean, you've got to put someone in there. You can't waste a grave. Unless he's trying to help to get the yarn off that's the thing he's trying i'm gonna cut that yarn off for you do you favor uh obviously she thinks that death is forthcoming here instead what he wants to do is shave her pussy oh with a straight razor he shaves her with a straight razor oh my god uh afterwards he took photographs of of her area shaven uh he then put a pillow over her face which is what he

likes to do she said she played dead until he stopped she just went limp and eventually he stopped and left the room uh the next day how does the sun go down and come back up and you're still there as soon as he goes to sleep i'm running out of the door so fast i don't care the next day she pretended there was an emergency with her daughter at her house with like her grandkid or family or some shit and took off and left and got away from him okay thank fuck sure you came to her senses so february 1977 he that was trip that was that trip was two days too long that was way too long second he said i dug your grave bye next time he pisses i'm out of that house gone fucking gone turn your back make a sandwich i'm out yeah exactly i was gonna say not even anything he gets up to change the channel no remote back then he goes to flick it i'm out yeah exactly i was gonna say not even anything he gets up to change the channel no remote back then he goes to flick it i'm out so february of 77 he meets linda kimball

okay he meets he says he met her through her husband uh she he said they had an affair and she got pregnant and they had a daughter named megan so so far i'm counting four kids at least how's he doing this it's crazy he said quote quote, after that, I introduced her to sodomy. Yeah. I told her that if I was her husband and she left me for any reason, I would kill her. They weren't even together yet. She was still, wow. By August of that year, they were living together.

She was away from her husband. They were living together. She, Linda, gives birth to their daughter in december of 77 her mother isabel pauls lives nearby now uh july 6 1978 uh isabel pauls who's her daughter's uh you know husband here and uh her you know boyfriend who she has a kid with and all that. She wakes up. The mother is awakened by Phil, who is on top of her in his underwear, holding a knife to her throat, which is a bad sign.

He told her that he came to rape her. He said, I've come to rape you, which is like a Batman villain. I've come to rape you, which is not what you want to hear. Please, nobody isolate that. Jesus jesus christ that a ringtone no don't request that one i've come to rape you i have a text message oh shit let that go off at work he said but he couldn't go through with it because when he looked at her face all he could see is linda's face so he said he felt bad

so she managed to escape to a neighbor's house she does not report the incident to the police out of concern for her daughter she doesn't want her daughter's uh father of her daughter's baby going to jail and then you know not having any money i guess is what she's thinking uh now uh jesus christ now the daughter found out about this the daughter promised that daughter promised the mother that he would seek help at the VA hospital in Loma Linda. So, Jesus Christ. After he attacked her, Isabel, the mother, does call the Loma Linda VA and talks to a doctor about the attack. Tells her about it, but not the police.

The doctor, a Dr. Kapileloff told her not to call the police don't call the police or anything even though you have a guy who's repeating the same pattern he's done before don't do that assured her that the va would take care of it we'll take care of it we'll fix him up it's fine uh she also says this isabel that her daughter was upset because uh uh the day uh the day that this happened the day of the attack on isabel uh linda had driven him phil to the loma linda va hospital and they refused to they refused to admit him they wouldn't hospitalize him so then he went home and threatened to rape his mother-in-law good lord uh so two days before uh well a few few days after that, he took, Linda took Phil to a second appointment at the VA.

And the hospital, the personnel again declined to hospitalize him. So multiple times, he tries to attack her. They still don't hospitalize him. She takes him in again. He's still acting crazy. And he wants to go, too. He's saying, I can't control myself. Take me to the fucking hospital.

Like, he's getting in the car, volunteering. He's not doing, like, a vet thing. Like, you want to go to the park? And he's getting in the car volunteer she's not doing like a vet thing like you want to go to the park and he's like okay and then we're going to the vet that's not how this works she's not playing a trick on okay he hops in the car so you're telling me that the va has been fucked up for years oh boy yeah they're like yeah we don't he's good because i mean think about this this is post vietnam how many fucking people with post-traumatic stress disorder this place is overrun by? So if they cannot admit somebody, they're not going to admit. Tell me your brain's a little scrambled. I got a dude in there.

His lungs are on fire still. Unless they're holding a knife to their own throat. They're not being admitted for psychiatric reasons. Like unless it's imminent danger, which he is imminent. He's imminent danger to other people. So while this is all going on, Linda decides to leave him and she and the child move in with uh isabel they leave her now july 16th of that year 11 a.m linda returns to the apartment that she shared with him with phil to pick up some things for the baby she doesn't have all her shit she's going to pick up baby toys and baby stuff. So early that afternoon, she is found dead in the apartment.

No, Linda. Her wrists were bound. She'd been badly beaten and stabbed and strangled with a man's belt. Her blouse had been pulled apart and her pants and underwear pulled down and her bra had been ripped apart, like ripped torn to pieces. Cause of death was asphyxiation. Interesting there. So obviously they want to talk to Phil about this since that's kind of his MO and that's kind of our guy.

Instead, he goes on the fucking lamb. He takes off because he knows that shit. He finds a woman named Eileen Millsap at her home in Highland, California. He responds to an advertisement that this Eileen Millsap had put in the local paper offering a stove for sale. He shows up at her house while she was all alone with her small children. Jesus God. He put a knife to the throat of her three-year-old son and forced her into the bedroom and ordered

her to undress while he held a knife to her three-year-old son's throat. With her two children in the room, he gets on top of her and begins to choke her till she loses consciousness. When she wakes up, he's gone. She still has her clothes on, but her wallet and purse are missing, which that's better than what he's been doing so far. Later on, one of her credit cards was used to buy gasoline at a gas station now also uh while this is going on while

he's on the lam from this whole thing there's an open case that's still open that he's trying to solve here by admitting to this shit repeatedly he tells a story of what he does while he's on the lam running away after the Linda murder. Yeah. Okay. This is another one. I'm just going to quote. It's horrible. And here it is.

This is out of a dear diary. This is his own words here. Quote, see, I would take my date to lover's lane overlooking university of El Paso while others were kissing, hugging, fondling their dates.

My date was sucking me or fucking me, or I was sodomizing her. He says, see, I was on the run from killing my third wife and raping a housewife and her infant uh daughter and toddler son leaving her for dead but she survived i was driving down the main street of el paso when i picked up a woman hitchhiker when she got in my car she didn't know she was getting in the car of death i gave her a tour of el paso since i was stationed near there in the army i took her to the canyon where i raped my second wife on our first date and lured her to an isolated field i had a 22 caliber rifle in the trunk of my car and i told

her i wanted to do some target practice she didn't know she was going to be one of my targets i set up some tin cans and we shot at them she got bored and stood in front of a dirt mound with her back facing me. I took careful aim and slowly pulled the trigger and the bullet hit her in the back of the head. She spun around

and looked her killer in the eyes before falling over on her back. I walked up to her and she was dead. Her face was completely purple. I pulled her off

the dirt mound. The ground helped me strip her. Her blouse came off first then her bra he's he's acting like a horrible thing he's acting like her clothes are like dandelion fucking spores that are coming they just fly right off uh her blouse came off first then her bra revealing large breasts when i pulled her a fair distance from the mound i stripped her the rest of the way i rolled her over and was going to sodomize the slut but she looked like she had shit her pants so i stripped her the rest of the way i rolled her over and was going to sodomize the

slut but she looked like she had shit her pants so i drug her between two mounds and left what i don't even know where to because i mean your body evacuates when you die and that's what happened that's what happened because you killed her oh that's not the worst part i don't think also i had popped out her eyes and severed her nipples and eaten them eaten their nipples she said he ate not the eyes he popped out the eyes but then ate the nipples i went through her belongings and found fifty dollars in a sense she paid me for murdering her what a fucking piece of shit she was just 20 years old and was from florida i had her bra and panties as a souvenir.

I drove to the lover's lane overlooking the University of El Paso to the lover's lane I know. There was a young girl standing there looking down at the university with her back to me. I was parked across from her and had the rifle in the seat of my car. I picked it up and took careful aim and hit her in the back of the head. She slid down the stone wall. I walked up to her. She was still alive and she said, please don't kill me. i stripped her and bent her over the wall and sodomized oh my god after she's been shot in the fucking head i then picked up my rifle and shot her in the back of the head and threw her

over the wall into a deep ravine my fuck when she went over the wall she looked like she was flying i picked up her clothes and my gun and stuffed them in the trunk of my car along with the bra and panties from my last victim and drove back to california jesus christ uh dear diary uh wow oh by the way yeah and he claims that jesus christ he claims that on the run on the way back he claims to have kidnapped a six-year-old boy from a motel that his parents owned and sodomized him and he says he cut his penis off and ate it as ate it later he said he kept it as a souvenir and then ate it later on he also said he picked up a 15 year old gay hitchhiker took him for a to ael, kept him for a few days because of a serious snowstorm.

Then he said he strangled him to death while talking to his mother on the phone. Not the boy's mother, his own mother. He called his mother and strangled the guy to death while talking to her. Which one's worse? You know what I mean? Is it worse to talk to the victim's mother or your own? I have no fucking idea. Well, you're doing that?

He apparently gets off on choking people in front of his mother. There is something. I don't know if any of these, you know what I mean? There's they're true. I mean, some of them are true. Yeah. A lot of this is true, I think. But he really goes far.

He said that he also severed his severed his unit there and ate it later also. So he doesn't have one of his own. He says no. He says, I met a closet gay guy through a prison pen pal. I told him if I ever meet him, I would kill him. After I killed the 15-year-old, I went to his house and he welcomed that killer with open arms. His mother found out that her 20-year-old son was gay when she came over to his house and seen me sodomizing her son's petite gorgeous butt then one day he was still in bed upstairs when i decided it was time for him to

die i got a butcher knife from his kitchen and put it under a glass coffee table went upstairs and beat the hell out of him then dragged him down the stairs and told him it was time for him to die he was begging for his wellness after i laid him under the coffee table and sodomized him What is that? holding his head by his hair. I took his head and dick as a souvenir and stuffed his dick in his mouth. I cut his dick and eyes. What is that? I don't know. It's eyes with. I don't know.

I don't know. He just wants to destroy. This is after an 11. He does this over an 11 day period after he kills Linda Kimball. He's caught 11 days later in Arizona. He's arrested. So for 11 days, he drove to El Paso, did all this and was heading back to California. Good Lord.

Police found a note in his handwriting that read, quote, killed to date. Linda Kimball, what common law wife? I told her she would never raise Megan alone or leave me alive. She begged me not to kill her. You screamed, but it was cut short. My Christ. That's some evidence, I would say. Also. In his own writing. leave me alive she begged me not to kill her you screamed but it but it was cut short my christ that's that's some evidence i would say uh also in his own writing yeah oh that's not the mo there's so much more later on it gets even crazier this is like the intro this is nuts uh after linda's

death the mother isabel pauls uh got obtained custody of the child, thankfully. And his parents sought custody of the child. Yuck. And according to the judge, the judge said that he would not send the child to the same environment from which the defendant had came. Thank God. Thank you. Somebody with some fucking brains in their head. So, in prison, in 1982, he's in prison now for murder. Right.

He begins a pen pal relationship. Again. With a woman named Carol Spadani. Yeah. This is after he placed an ad in a newspaper for... Why did they allow this? I don't know. Well, it's all prison pen pal.

It's supposed to help them. No. But they can also do this. Ask Mary how that turned out. No shit. Carol lives with her mother, Eva Peterson. Now, this is how he describes them. Quote, they were hermits.

Carol was real ugly and anorexic. When I hug her, it's like hugging a skeleton. She weighed only 60 pounds and had one silicone titty. One was smaller. I don't know how that works. My main focus was on Eva. She was real gorgeous for being 56 years old. She had huge breasts

and medium-sized ass cheeks. I told Eva I would I would fuck and sodomize her someday. So, in 1982 Did he write that to her? I don't know if he told her, write her, but either way, the daughter, Carol,

marries him What? in 1982 at San Quentin. Marries him. How dare! Fucking marries him. It is a man's world so july 1985 his parents are visiting him in prison uh nanette is his uh nanette netty they call her is visiting him in prison uh it's at the california men's colony uh they were on a 72 hour family visit where they have like a trailer and all that type of shit uh he attacks his mother yeah inside

the trail his own mother he became angry because carol who who he got married to didn't come with his parents so he grabbed his mother choked her covered her mouth and dragged her into the bedroom of the visiting trailer they were in she yelled for help and the father came to her aid and saved her fucking life as the son tried was choking her and holding his hand over her mouth. Wow. Because he didn't bring the wife. They didn't bring his wife. So now some people say he was a real nice guy.

Yeah. There's a guy named Alex Martinez in jail with him at San Quentin. He said that he and another inmate, this is Alex and another inmate, found two homemade knives, found a couple of shanks in the chapel and they took them to uh to phil who worked as a clerk uh to the chaplain and this alex martinez said that uh that the other inmate hesitated to turn in the knives because they knew that that was you know you're it's kind of not good you don't want to stay you don't stay out of everything but they said uh uh phil immediately and without hesitation turned them right over to the chaplain and, you know, it wasn't like, yeah, he was very, uh, by the book. Uh, now eventually while he's in prison, Carol Spadani here decides she's not so much into

this relationship anymore. She kind of wants to end it. She describes him to, uh, describes Phil to her friends as quote, weird. Yeah. No shit. He's a prisoner. He's a fucking murderer. Uh, she told this, a fucking murderer uh she told

this a friend also that she was afraid of him which is probably smart uh now summer of 1990 ava peterson carol's mother right telephones a guy named richard moon muniz uh muniz uh was a prison friend of of uh phil and met uh met peterson and spadani through phil so they all know each other through this pen pal program after his release from prison richard maintains a friendship with the two women okay uh now ava peterson asks muniz to come to her house in burlingame by the way that's where they live burlingame california sound familiar and to pick up some belongings that phil had left uh and that phil had sent to them in anticipation of his release on Pearl. Like, oh, I'll send my shit ahead of time because I'm going to be moving in there.

Ava told Muniz that they don't want him on her property and they're afraid of him, of Phil. They're afraid he might harm them. And would you please take all this shit? Yeah. So this Muniz takes all of his stuff and stores them in his own garage. Now, around the same time, Spadani, Carol, talks to his future parole officer, because he's going to get out right away in fucking 12 years, which is crazy. There's a guy named Robert Perides. Perides is assigned to the Indio California office in Riverside County, which is the most awful place on earth.

Now, Philip asked to be allowed to live with Spadani in Burlingame, California, but Parides informed Carol of this. And she said that she doesn't want him living there because she's afraid of him. So he's released in September, 1990.

Oh, Jesus. He was in Vacaville. He's released or Vacaville, whatever it is. And in connection with his release in September of 1990 here, Jesus. He was in Vacaville. He's released or Vacaville, whatever it is. In connection with his release in September of 1990 here,

the Department of Corrections had a program and a study and report. They noted him as a Category J psychiatric inmate who received treatment including medication. What, a jack the fuck up? Yeah, it's fucking Category Jerkoff. So he's got to take medication and seek.

That's part of his parole. So the report noted that a staff psychologist was concerned about his parole and warned that although he's in remission, he could become actively psychotic at any time. He's a fucking time bomb. This guy. What is it? Cancer? That's what I mean. Remission.

He's in remission. He's in a cooling off period. He's a lunatic. He's full of shit and he's trying to get out of prison. That's remission. Wow. That is a fucking mental diagnosis. He also said he could become actively psychotic at any time.

He's a volcano. At any time, shit could pop out of the top. We don't know. Holy hell. Original. He says his original plan required him to seek mental health counseling. Ultimately, he ended up seeking counseling at Loma Linda VA Hospital. November 30, 1990, a psychiatrist at the VA Hospital named Dr. Sylvia Winters,

and she'll talk to him a bunch over the months, she did an intake examination of him. He told her that in the previous month and a half, he'd been hearing voices and seeing faces just as he had before he killed Linda Kimball. He's setting the groundwork for some schizophrenia shit here he said that he had stopped taking his medication prescribed for him in prison and that's probably why yeah he said that helicopters flying above the motel where he lived at the time in a halfway house were making him nervous okay he also told her he was having

nightmares about a friend who had died in vietnam in the crash of a helicopter on which he was the door gunner of. He blamed having a flashback in Vietnam for his attack on his mother at the men's colony. He also blamed a Vietnam flashback for his murder of his wife at this point. Now, he just came up with that one 12 years later, 13 years later. He tells Dr. Winters that, quote, he thought his wife was a Vietnamese when he strangled her. So that's you. Yeah. You know, you should get out of this.

You know what? We need you on the street. Right. A society needs you. We're fucking hurting for you. This is absurd. He Dr. Winters was aware of the circumstances surrounding this. She knew that two days prior to the murder, he'd been evaluated at the hospital and found neither to be homicidal nor suicidal and sent on his fucking merry way.

Two days before. Two days before he murdered his wife. And then somebody's dead. A few days after he almost raped his mother-in-law. And then he murdered her viciously. And then he murdered her viciously. So she accepted his assurance, this doctor, that that he did not feel like hurting anyone right now and that he would inform her if he did. I'll let you know.

I'll tell you. I'll tell my parole officer because I want to be put back in prison. She diagnosed him as a schizophrenic and made an additional provisional diagnosis of post-traumatic stress disorder, prescribed him medss referred him to a post-traumatic stress disorder specialist for combat veterans. All that she advised. Also, this Nancy Whitney, who's a social worker attached to the team, the post-traumatic stress team, that she might take some precaution for her security when he arrives for his appointments. Just in case he gets rapey. You never know. for her security when he arrives for his appointments, just in case he gets rapey. You never know.

She also wrote to his parole officer and told him to be sure that Phil didn't sleep in the same room with others because of the possibility of a Vietnam flashback. He might freak out. The man in a 48-hour window can go from lovey-dovey to fucking rapey rapey rapey of people closey-closey closey close super close people to me yeah and i may rape and murder them oh yeah and a later search of his apartment after a bunch of shit happens here revealed medicine bottles full of his psych meds that he wasn't taking oh boy uh so he's released from prison you gotta get let this guy out uh the munis guy picked him up from jail. Muniz also told him that, oh, by the way, your mother-in-law there, Ava, gave me all your shit and said that you're not allowed and they're afraid of you and shit. So Phil spends the weekend with Muniz in Sacramento, and then Muniz puts him on a bus to Indio.

The bus to Indio, I said. That's right. Wow. He should have blew his fucking brains out right there and saved us all a lot of trouble saved a weekend with him 48 hours yeah and then send him off to india okay so he meets with parides his parole officer and uh uh basically he tells this he tells phil about all the conditions that he's forbidden to travel more than 50 miles from his residence without permission and he's forbidden to go to burlingame say the fuck out of burlingame they don't want you there he's pissed yeah phil is

pissed and he said pardon me i didn't know that that was part they said oh yeah you can't go to burlingame he's fucking livid so obviously he wants to go there and right some wrongs right so uh because they carol and her mother live in Burlingame. So they also required him to participate in a counseling program and all that type of shit. He got in a program at Loma Linda. Christmas 1990, he asks his parole officer for permission to visit Muniz and Sacramento and get a driver's license. So he gives him permission, but only after he calls, the parole officer calls Carol spadani and informs her that he'll be in northern california he's gonna be driving by he'll be an hour 45 away that's why i picked sacramento as a place uh and she said that's fine whatever as long as he's not allowed here that's fine so

uh so they said don't go near san mateo county he says i won't he spends a week with muniz phil does he complains to muniz that spadani that his wife there carol was quote listening to her mother and that peterson the mother was interfering with his plans to move to sacramento where he felt he could get a better job don't you remember you told her that one day you're gonna rape and sodomize don't forget sodomize he's very upset uh muniz just says well why don't you appeal to the department of corrections parole people i don't know what i can't solve your fucking problems. I'm on parole, too.

So he returns from Sacramento with a driver's license and a 65 Ford Fairlane. Eesh. Interesting. It's a cool car, though. It's kind of a cool car. January 1991, he enrolls in automotive classes at a local community college. This is where... This is part of his parole, is he has to enroll in some classes.

So he takes an automotive class. You wonder why community colleges are a fucking joke. Yeah, this guy's there. While he's taking these classes, he befriends another student named Jim Lawrence. Jim Lawrence, he says that Phil would tape record the class sessions, the whole thing. Would tape record them. I guess listen to them later. He does a lot with that tape recorder.

That's a little foreshadowing for later on. Oh, there's plenty on the tape recorder. He describes Phil as, quote, very intelligent, which not by his writing, but whatever. Spring of 91, a Dr. Charles Sprague, who's a psychiatrist at the VA hospital, meets with him and does a medication check. He said, Phil said that his mood was okay,

and they said that the observations of the doctor were consistent with that, said he seemed fine. Phil told the doctor he wasn't experiencing any symptoms consistent with his normal shit. He denied wanting to hurt anyone, reported no problems with anger or irritability or anything like that. He claimed he's taking his medicine. So the doctor, the this doctor read the other doctor's report and had a quote higher level of suspicion than ordinarily he would with a person

you know assessing themselves but he said that he looked for anything that might call for involuntary commitment but found nothing to justify it he was acting fine even if he wasn't fine so uh at this point a janet flenagan and her husband, they managed a hotel where Phil lived in the spring of 91. They said that he acted like a normal person, never showed any signs of being mentally ill. No one was ever like, oh, that one guy in 2F is fucking weird. Like, nobody ever said that. He told them that he had plans to, quote, move up north. That's all he said, which is what he keeps trying to do.

them that he had plans to quote move up north that's all he said which is what he keeps trying to do he told this flanagan that he was going to uh get his wife to write a quote lying letter saying she would move with him to sacramento and then he could just start a new life without her so he's saying that's the plan is to get carol get a letter to just that's you owe me a letter i guess i don't know what the fuck that does. So this Whitney, the psychiatrist here, saw him the next four months every two weeks over that time. Her working diagnosis was post-traumatic stress disorder. And when she saw him on April 4th, 1991, he complained about an increase in nightmares, which is not good for someone that has that. nightmares, which is not good for someone that has that. Sometime around April 18th, Phil finds out from Lawrence, the guy from the automotive class, that through normal conversation that Lawrence owned a small gun.

He just had a gun. So Phil says, well, if you're not using it, I'll buy it off of you. Oh, boy. Now, initially, this Lawrence guy declined. But I guess a couple days later he changed his mind i don't know if he needed money or if he was like i don't use this fucking thing why don't i just what do i have it right so he sold it for him it was an rg14 revolver i don't know and i don't know what that is and he sold him bullets with it too it's a so yeah

so uh uh he was uh obviously he knows he's not supposed to have a gun being a convicted felon on parole for violent crimes. So on April 22nd, Phil tells his instructor in the auto class, a guy named John Talum, Tamaluna, not that it matters. He tells him that he will not be in the class the next day because he's got a doctor's appointment. So that's April 22nd. He said, I won't be in class the next day because he's got a doctor's appointment so that's april 22nd he said i won't be in class the next day uh i won't be in class the next day but i'll be in class the day after that don't worry so this john telemunis uh saw phil again on the evening of april 22nd with another student yeah a student named uh fatima van who is a recently widowed mother of two who goes by fanny hansen that's

what she calls herself because it sounds it's more americanized basically yeah uh so april 23rd he's supposed to be back in class he does not show back up for class phil does and uh problem is fanny hansen never shows back up for class either oh no and that's where we got to leave it off oh boy until next week and we'll find out what is happening with these people jesus and uh yeah carol and her mother and uh they're lying in wait and we'll find out what happens here and uh what happens after that because that's more it's even crazier jesus christ part two is as crazy as part one i gotta tell you guys that uh Wild. It's just fucking crazy. The spree he goes on is insane. Good for you guys for hanging in with this.

Wow. Yeah, that was. Thank you guys for hanging in there with that. That's a tough episode. So the information's crazy. And I mean, I'm sure you've heard worse, but it's a crazy one. This one's absolutely batshit. So, yeah, if you like that, you're sick fuck and we love you for it anyway, but give

us five stars on iTunes or wherever you review things. It really does help the show a lot. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com and you can get all things shutupandgivememurder.com-ish. You can get small town murder stuff and crime and sports stuff and merchandise, tickets to live

shows. February 21st, next week. The West Palm Beach Improv. West Palm Beach, Florida. We're going to come down there and sweat it out in the humidity and kill giant large bugs and everything else. Sit on a beach and drink Corona. We can't wait.

We're going to be there. Buy tickets to that. Get that. Come see us. Also, you can follow us from there on social media. Right. Very easy to do that. You can follow us.

We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Small Town Pod on Facebook. And follow us because there's going to be a bunch of pictures that this guy draws later where we're going to post some of this shit, too. They're fucking sick. He makes Gacy look like a normal,

adjusted human being. Amazing. So we're going to show some of those. So follow us there. If you want to be a hero of ours and be one of our producers who we're going to talk about in just a moment, who are really, honestly, we just can't thank them enough. They're the lifeblood of our show. You can do that very easily by going to patreon.com slash crimeinsports

or heading over to PayPal and using our email address, which is crimeinsports at gmail.com to make a one-time donation. And oh, guess what? You can get to those links right from our website. Yeah, the one over shutupandgivememurder.com. That's the one. And unlike Aziz Ansari, we have always been grateful. Yeah, we're very grateful. We appreciate everything.

And Jimmy, why don't you tell us the list of the people who we goddamn appreciate the most this week? Hit me with it now. This week's executive producers are Leslie, the Irish witch, witch watch. No, Leslie, the Irish wristwatch. Damn it. Leslie, the Irish witch. I'm not going to do it.

She did that on purpose, I think. Jeffrey Anderson donated for Christmas and I apparently missed it I know I got his name in there but I didn't get Leslie so Leslie the Irish Rishwa what in the fuck thank you Leslie with the hard name happy birthday no Merry Christmas

that's what it was for and I blew it Leslie Henderson Merry Christmas Joshua Keller Don Iverson Allen's brother because I can't say... Ruffer. Ruffer. Ruffer. Ruffer. Ruffer. Ruffer. Merry Christmas. Thank you. Joshua Keller. Don Iverson? Yes.

Alan's brother? I think so. Good. It's a girl. Oh. Actually, it's a DAW. Yeah. It might be his brother

and they just spelled it like a lady. Alan's estranged wife. Z. Just Z. Shannon Russell. Brian Price. Jefferson Suchman. Or Suchman.

Shelly Vanderburg donated twice on Patreon and then over on PayPal. That's the one. Wow. Thank you very, very much. Thank you. And Nicole Trudeau. You guys really make everything fun. Yeah, you really help.

It's really impressive, and we can't thank you guys enough. Thank you. We're blown away by it, and we just thank you so much, honestly, for everything. Monique Nguyen. It Monique Con Nguyen. It's the Asian Nguyen. Nguyen? Right. That's the one.

Is that Asian Nguyen? I don't know what I'm doing. No, you don't. You don't have any idea what you're doing. Appleberry Pocky. Hunter Berry. No, Hunter Perry. Jordan Bennett.

She's getting tattoos like crazy and uh and then uh having the tattoo artist listen to us while cool it happens well thank you pretty bad spread the word kelly mcalpine thomas smith uh rick uh sikorsky uh patty trifone uh trifone uh james martyr i don't know if it's somebody calling you a martyr or if that's just their name uh james grell no kim grell jesus what i'll jump on that grenade bitches kim grell It's somebody calling you a martyr, or if that's just their name. Fuck it. James Grell. No, Kim Grell. Jesus, what? Jump on that grenade, bitches. Kim Grell, Ross Lavsa, John Nagel, Dave Jocelyn, Ken Slattery, Kate Watson, Jacob Harshman,

you're going to like this, the Lionel Lakes Pronunciation Fund in support of Willamette. Or Willamette. That's clever. Take that. I like it. That's clever. Aaron with no last name. Fucking cocksuckers.

Chris Currier. Keith Cole. Mitchell Crittenden. Jesse Hartman. Justin Miller. Daryl Donahue. Philip Close. Philip, is that you?

Is that you? What's with all this gun man philip you change man uh brendan ables janice hill adam cummings heather williams uh ruth uh eugen kowski i think that's right matt sledge uh stacy langtoe uh mojave john mott andy coats anthony canella uh jake martinez jamfluger, which that's a tough one. I think I got it right, though. Crystal Walker, Bailey Cox.

That just sounds like something from a Dr. Seuss book. Jamie Julian, Times Two. So she donated twice. Thank you, Jamie. Appreciate it. Sarah Kunkel. No, it's Nukle. What is that?

Nukle? I think it's nuchal. Damn it. Kinkle? Canucal. Canucal. D? Knuckle?

D? Just D. D. Appreciate you. The letter D. Gary Howard. No, Christy. Yes.

Christy Larson. Autumn Talley. Patrick Cunningham. Haley Marble. Ben Scarnage. Scranage. I'm so dumb. I love it.

Valerie Vega or Vegia? I put like an I there. Shit, it might be Vega. Devin Letko, Valerie Galloway, Matt Dietrich, Sherry Sonis or Sovis? I don't know if I put a V or an N. I think it's Sovis. I think that's right. Abigail Manning, Tara Jenkins, James Lear, Jessica with no last name, Panhandle Games,

Kevin Gately, Sophia Trick, Erica Zalvinardo. Hey. Yep. Got it. Hey. Regina Kudajaroff, Lisa Beans, Rachel Storer, who also sent me a birthday card. Thank you. And you guys sending birthday cards.

It's incredible. Thank you guys so much. Yeah, really nice. Taisha McPherson, Ruiz. No, it's Russ. Russ Linderman. Shante. Trying to make him Spanish.

Shante Wright, Leslie Woodruff, Ben Moore, Melissa Moss, James Hires, Laura Mickelson, spanish shantae right uh leslie woodruff uh ben moore melissa moss james hires uh laura laura mickelson uh kimberly vautour uh janet janet janet home i think that's right uh antonio menezes uh lauren demareth checking in thank you lauren uh megan megan allen elise carter test divine uh sam wade uh yoma no y Sam Wade, Yoma Mapus. Yoma Mapus. Whoa. I don't know if that's supposed to be dirty or if that's just... It sounds dirty.

It does. No Ruiz, Corey Taylor, Miriam Linnae Hale, Brian Whitney, and Jacqueline Osborne. I'm fucking, I'm an idiot. Thank you guys so much for making me look real dumb today. Thank you, thank you, thank you, everybody, for everything you do for us, for hanging through weird shit, for laughing at our craziness, and for everything you do for us and give to us. Jimmy, what if they wanted to do for you? How could they find you to tell you that? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks, on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat.

Facebook's just about full, so you guys can find me on Twitter or on Instagram. Whatever. Thank you guys so much for everything. It's fucking mind-blowing. It really is incredible to see how much uh how much this means to you guys and believe me it means that much to us so thank you absolutely what about you ah you can find me at jimmy p is funny or you can just copy and paste my last name from the show description don't be a hero and uh just do it that way look us up like that and guys

we can't thank you enough honestly we really really can't now that this was a tough episode we understand uh but it gets crazier. So come back next week for part two on all of this. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.