Small Town Murder - #11 - Murder & Worse in South Lake Tahoe, California - Part 1

Episode Date: March 29, 2017

This week, we check out the small town of South Lake Tahoe, California, where a man honed his twisted fantasies, and eventually acted on them, drawing the attention of the nation to this town of ski chalets, and trailer parks. Along the way, we learn how one casino can lead to a lot of snow plowing, how smoking in a closed car can apparently turn a child insane, and to never let a man who is clearly wearing a disguise have access to teenage models!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, we look at South Lake Tahoe, California, where a monster honed his fantasies and eventually acted on them. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, this is great. Thank you so much for joining us this week. My name's James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Westman. We're thrilled.

We're thrilled to be here. We're thrilled to be back. We're tired. We did South by Southwest last week with Crime and Sports, our other podcast that you should definitely be listening to. Yeah. And listen to P.S. I Hate This Hate This Movie too while you're at it. Go ahead. We're making fun of bad movies.

Do it up. We did 30 hours in a car. In two days. In about a 48-hour period. Oh, my God. So it was wild. But we had a great time. Thank you to everybody there.

This is for Crime and Sports. But still, thank you to everybody there who showed up. And thank you to the TuneIn people and people and Kayla from tune in the marketing person. Fantastic. Thank you so much for your iTunes reviews this week. You guys are kicking so much ass. Yeah. It's not even funny.

Bananas. It's the best. I love you. I love you guys. It's like we have this hit squad of iTunes reviewers and we love it so much. Thank you guys. Really. Start giving yourself a nickname.

Yeah. Start doing it. We appreciate that. Tony or some shit. Whatever it is. We don't care. Go for it. Give yourself whatever nickname you want. But like or some shit so whatever it is we don't care go for it give yourself whatever nickname you want but like we've heard from other people you don't want to self nickname so ask someone else to give you a nickname yeah that's a good idea

shitty it's fun it's fine it's fine we're happy with that but we're we're excited we have a crazy story this week for you before we get to that i just want to do one thing here i just want to give the disclaimer again here just just in case. Look, I hate that I have to do this, but just to tell you guys, we are comedians. This is a comedy podcast. Surprisingly enough. Yes, it says it in the description. The facts are real. The research, trust me, I've slept for about an hour 20 in the last day and a half. So the facts are real. Everything is on the level. We never, ever, ever intend to or even try to or even accidentally denigrate the victims or the victims' families. That's never

the intention. The humor comes from mainly making fun of whatever asshole did this horrible crime that we're talking about, whatever it may be, or the bumbling around it, or just making fun of a small town, which everyone's from a small town and they all suck. Jimmy, your small town sucks? That's why a small town and they all suck. Jimmy, your small town sucks. That's why I'm here in a big city. That's what I'm saying. So it's lighten up is what we're getting at. It's not a big deal.

We're trying to have a little bit of fun with it. And if you don't think that true crime and comedy go together at all, then nice to meet you. Yeah. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure. It's not going to work out. So let's shake hands and part ways.

Hit that unsubscribe button. Put the phone back in your pocket. I'm sure there's plenty of other podcasts that you'll enjoy. How many other podcasts request the listeners to hit the unsubscribe button before the three minute mark on the podcast? That doesn't happen very often, but please. If you're an asshole, seriously, go away. Just if you're sensitive

to anything, whatever. Just we don't want iTunes reviews saying that we're assholes because reword my statement. If you're an asshole, well, if you're sensitive. Yeah, either way. However you want to put that, but please. And if you're not and if you like us, please go on iTunes.

Give us five stars. It helps us out on the business end more than you could know. So that's – I don't know what you have to say. The best way you could support us in any fashion would be iTunes reviews. We really would appreciate that. But without further ado, Jimmy, without further ado, let's go somewhere. We're going away from Florida.

Last week was Florida. Get the hell out of here. We were in the swampy, nasty area of Florida. Mosquitoes. This week, across the country. All the oil bubbling up from everywhere. Jimmy thinks Florida was suburb because of oil. I'm so stupid.

That's great. I'm such an idiot. That was the best thing ever. I'm so stupid. That's great. I'm such an idiot. That was the best thing ever. I'm telling you guys. But this week, clear across the country. All right. Clear across the United States and California. Oh.

So you think California. What are you thinking? Beach. Beach. Sandy beaches. Pacific Coast Highway, right? Beautiful women in bikinis. Yeah.

No, no, no. Muscle dudes working out on the beach. No. We're nowhere near there. This is small town California. We are in South Lake Tahoe, California. South Lake Tahoe. South Lake Tahoe, which isn't even Lake Tahoe.

All right. It's a different kind of place. It's all the way on the Nevada border on the far east side. The county that it's in is on there. It's not the beach like you'd imagine the sunshine. It is a lake and it's in north central, whatever, eastern California. It's where, have you seen The Godfather 2? It's where Michael lived in the beginning of The Godfather 2 with the mountains and where the kids get in the back. That's where we're talking about here. You go there for the witness protection program.

You go there for that. You go there if you're like a wealthy person who wants to have a mountain retreat and go skiing or if you want to live in a trailer and be surrounded by a lot of meth, I would imagine. Yeah, it's up there in elevation, too, this place. Up in the mountains, 6,237 feet in elevation. That's up there. I mean, you get winded. 6,200? 6,200.

Yeah, you'll get winded just going across the street. Yeah, it's mountains. It's basically the way Lake Tahoe works is between Nevada and California, if you don't know. There's a giant lake, Lake Tahoe, and it's basically kind of half in California and half in Nevada. They just said, fuck it, we'll split the difference. And that's what they did here. It's in El Dorado County, South Lake Tahoe is. Zip code 96150, area code 530.

It's right along the US 50. So that's why it's partially why it can be a town. It's on a highway between the US 50 connects Carson City, Nevada to Sacramento. So if you're, yeah, that's the only thing that could be worse than going to those two places would be stopping in South Lake Tahoe. It's not great at all. Like Carson City used to be a destination back in the old timey old west. There's a reason to go there.

It was like golden stuff in Carson City, I believe. Oil, I think, Jimmy. back in the old timey old west like there's a reason to go there it was like golden stuff in carson city i believe i think jimmy is what they i'm never gonna let that shit down god i'm an idiot anyway so carson city used to be a destination i remember i imagine sacramento was a destination for what the fuck i don't know yeah there was san francisco right up there it's been a destination a lot longer instead if they went like san francisco is too crowded i bet I bet there's more room down in Sacramento because nobody's going there. So that's how I think Sacramento was formed. It's terrible. Not as much shit here. Want all of San Francisco without all the shit?

Well, here we are. Here it is. Plenty of wide open spaces with nothing there. No things to occupy your time. Just not going to happen. So this town here, this whole thing starts basically as Nevada was started with gambling. I mean, that's pretty much when gambling would arrive somewhere. They would erect some kind of town, figure out a way to get fucking water there, and they'd go to town.

So in 1944, a casino opened on State Line, which is on the border of California, Nevada. It's on the Nevada side of there called Harvey's Wagon Wheel Saloon and Gambling Hall. Sounds fantastic. That's some Old West shit right there. In the 40s, a lot of these saloons before the gangsters started opening up the carpet joints, like they call them, the real nice swank places. These were like they made the casinos to be like an old west experience. Like you'd go in there and there's sawdust on the floor and shit. And that's how they wanted it to be.

Because people from back east would be like, I'm going to go to a genuine, you know, old west casino out in the west in the mountains in the middle of nowhere. You go into the MGM and you think this place was built on losers. Yes. You walk into a place like that, you're like, everybody must be winning here. They don't even have tile. They have nothing. They have nothing. They have sawdust here. They don't even have tile. They have nothing. They have nothing.

They have sawdust floors. They don't even have wood. And I'm sure hundreds of people died building it also. So it's built on death and destruction. And winners. And no one's won. Yes. It's built by Harvey and Llewellyn Gross.

They're the people of Harvey. It opens up on the lake on the Nevada side. Like I said, it's now Harrah's Harvey's Lake Tahoe. Oh, Harrah's got into it.vey's lake tahoe oh harris got into actually still in operation this place you awesome you erect a casino you gotta fuck up bad to mess it up to mess it up for it to go bankrupt uh roads they began plowing all year round at that point so people could get there you know what i mean more casinos open right so another thing that kind of brings this town something to exist for is in 1960, the Winter Olympics take place in nearby Squaw Valley, California.

It's in Placer County. It's a little south of there. Okay. So the Winter Olympics are a big deal, and this makes this whole area a worldwide ski destination. People are there. People saw it. It was broadcast on NBC. Oh, wow.

This was like the first full Olympics at the NBC broadcast and everything. So it was like people were like, wow, that looks gorgeous. Next thing you know, it's a tourist town. There's people coming. It's the top skiing place in the country after that. Just takes one shot on TV and you're famous. That's it. That's all it is, man. So yeah. So anyway,

that's down there. But Tahoe benefits too, because that's, you know, you can't get in there. It's all the same, basically. This is on a lake and there's gambling right there. So perfect. Perfect. People are going to Tahoe at that point, you know, you can't get in there. It's all the same, basically. This is on a lake, and there's gambling right there. So, perfect. Perfect. People are going to Tahoe at that point, but they're not going to South Lake Tahoe. No. That's not where they're headed, actually.

South Lake Tahoe is officially incorporated as a town in 1965, basically combined a bunch of rural, unincorporated towns. Okay. Because it's rural down there. I mean, it's not, like I said, it's not like right clustered on the lake. It's south of there, kind of just on the edge of everything. It's kind of the other side of the tracks is the best way to put it. It's cold and it feels like you're out in the cold and that you're just like an outcast.

You're just like, we're not part of the Tahoe. We're not part of where everybody wants to be. But you can see the lights in the distance. Like the cold up there is like embracing because you've got like your coffee or your hot cocoa and you're sitting in the ski lodge. This is great. The ski lodge. And the people down on South Talk, they don't have the ski lodge.

You're sitting in Harvey's looking out the window. Shivering. Shivering. Yeah, these people are just like, oh, man. Sitting on sawdust floors. It's terrible. No, most of these, there's a lot of trailers. I'm not even, this isn't like a stereotype.

It's trailery around there. Terrible. I was looking at the real estate. Very trailery. i've been in a trailer before i've lived in a trail we used to take one on vacation that was like all right it's it's not great no but it's better than sleeping in an attempt oh yeah not much but not much not much better than anything else it's shields you from wild animals that's a good thing and wind that's what you got they get a post office in south lake tahoe in 1967, so happy days at that point. Oh, boy.

Post office. We can get shit. Yeah, we can get shit. Back to Harvey's, which isn't even in South Lake Tahoe, but it interests the shit out of me. Okay. Harvey's, on August 27, 1980, at the Harvey's Wagon Wheel, a 1,000-pound bomb explodes. It puts a three-story crater in the ground. What the fuck?

It was accidentally detonated by the FBI. This is amazing. It's a guy named John Briggs who was a Fresno, California landscaper. He was $1 million in debt from gambling. He was just a complete fucking disaster. So basically, first of all, if you loan a landscaper $1 million, that's on you at that point. You shouldn't try to collect that.

If he shows up with some money once in a while, be like, hey, be happily surprised. Amazing, great. How'd you do that? You blew it. So he was hoping to put, he planted a bomb. He doesn't know how bomb threats work. His plan was to have a bomb threat to extort $3 million from the casino. This was his plan, which does not sound like a well-conceived, well-hatched plan, which

may be why he's a landscaper. Right. Anyway, he doesn't think ahead, obviously, but instead of just calling it a bomb threat, he actually plants a bomb. That's not calling it a bomb threat. No. That's planting a bomb and threatening to blow it up. Exactly.

That's what that is. He's like, well, you got to have something to back it up. You got to mean it. You know? You got to really want it. You got to impress these people. He was fucking serious is what he was. He was not fucking about this guy. He wanted three million dollars.

He absolutely did. But the FBI in their bumbling to mess with it, detonated it. Wow. And blew up a chunk of the casino and three story crater in the ground. It's a thousand pound bomb. Harvey survived that. And Harris bought it. Holy shit.

It takes a special kind of idiot to ruin a casino. That's some fun trivia. Good work, James. What the hell? You know what I mean? So 1991, 11-year-old J.C. Lee Duggard. Remember that name at all? Duggard sounds familiar.

Very famous name. Not Duggard the 25 kids. Oh, okay. Then I don't know the other one. J.C. Lee Duggard. The only one I know is the kid did learn. No, no, this is not it. This is a different girl.

This is an 11-year-old girl named J.C. Lee Duggard who was abducted. And this was a big-timeuggard who was abducted. And this was a big-time story because she was abducted walking home from the bus stop from school in South Lake Tahoe in 1991. She would be missing for 18 years before being found alive in Anatoke, California. What? A couple kidnapped her and held her. She had two kids there. She had two kids with them that they found in the uh in the like shantytown in the backyard yeah they had a backyard but they kept covered up right yeah it was that's that's where she was from yeah she was from south lake

tahoe wow this poor girl and she went there and by the way she wrote a book called a stolen life by this poor lady's book she's been through a lot support her support her it's got to be on amazon for like four dollars by now it's got to be on Amazon for like $4 by now. She's got to be a mess. It's been tough. And sadly enough, this is not the worst thing to happen in this town. What? We're going to get to that.

Trust me. Yeah, it's not great. Now, we're going to get City of South Lake Tahoe. By the way, real quick, how sad is that about our society? That my brain, when you say the word Dugggered i remember a kid diddler instead of that amazing hero reality show reality show over this poor girl it was a big story too when she popped up in the late 90s and i know the facts around the case but i don't remember her goddamn name that's disappointing that is disappointing and i was the same way you're not alone i saw the name

and i was like that name looks really familiar and then i read it and i was like oh yeah okay but i didn't know who it was just by connecting it. And I'm into this shit, you know what I mean? Obviously, in a strange way. But so they're bragging on their website, South Lake Tahoe. It's called, quote, America's All Year Playground. OK. All year.

Come out to the lake in the summer, ski in the winter. Get the fuck over here. America's All Year Playground. Come find our kids for us. Yeah, please. They're missing. We need help. America's all-year playground.

Come find our kids for us. Yeah, please. They're missing. We need help. It's basically a part rich, outdoorsy, vacation-y, ski-lodge-y, big house. People go there after some extravagant film festival type thing. And it's also like a mountain meth lab at the same time. So it's a very haves and have-nots kind of town.

And that's kind of how it plays out. There's 21,706 people there. But this area we're talking about, it's the ruralest part of this area. There's nobody out there where we're talking about now. But still, 21,000 is not that big. It's about as top of Wilgo as a town for a small town probably. About as big as it gets? Probably go to about 25,000 depending on where it is and then from there. It's quite the metropolis.

Yeah, this isn't near a major area, so this is rural. The population is down 8% since 2000. It's a decent-sized area, 16.9 square miles, but only 10 of it is land. The other six of it is lake, so that's what you get there. 53% male, which is very high. It averages 51% female. It's the loggers. I guess. I 51% female. It's the loggers. I guess.

I don't know if it's the loggers or the gambling or whatever it is. Firewood gatherers. Yeah, they really need to- They're hunter gatherers. They're hunter gatherers. That's a good idea. It's really good. It's an average age of people.

All the age groups are around average. There's no big spike in old people or tons of kids or any weird thing like that. Just average ages, but mostly dudes. Mostly dudes, yeah. Less married people than average. It's a 44% are married in South Lake Tahoe. 50% is the average. Otherwise, it's pretty much average as far as numbers go.

We'll get to race, religion here. It's 58% white, 62% is average. 1.7% black. Not a lot of black people in the mountains there. 12% is average. 4.62% Asian. 4.95% is average. Holy shit. That Not a lot of black people in the mountains there. 12% is average. 4.62% Asian. 4.95% is average. Holy shit.

That's a lot. We have an average Asian town for once. This is the first time. I'm so excited. It's a lot of a tiny town. I'm so excited for you guys. You have great restaurants and it's fantastic. 0.72% Native American, which is about normal.

32.33% Hispanic, which is about double the national average. Everywhere West is heavily Hispanic. It seems like that's just the way it is. Or in Phoenix, it's the same thing. The whole chief. Yeah, it's all good. So only 29% are religious there. 29?

That's our low so far. That is holy shit low. Super low. 50% is the average, which it's a bunch of gamblers and people going to meth labs and gamblers. They're not going to be that religious. There's no God. I'm down 2 million.

There's no God. I'm down 2. Either that or they have 2 million. They're like, I am God. Right. Exactly. Either one. It's one of the two.

13% Catholic, 4% Mormon, LDS. We're going to get West. It's just always there. 0.07% Jewish. So not a whole. There's like one Jewish guy there. Maybe two. It's like a couple.

They own a ski resort or some shit. Maybe. Possibly. 0.62% Muslim. So not a lot there, which is more than usual we have actually. 40% Democrat. 50% Republican, which I find odd for that area. But OK.

Whatever. It's all good. But I just – I expected it to be – Skid the other way. Either that or even kind of because Nevada is kind of an even state and it's kind of on the border. I don't know. It's rural, so who knows. Anyway, unemployment there is 5.40%, which is just on the national average.

Almost twice the average of recent job growth. So something's happening there. Average household income, not bad, $41,380. $53,000 is your average. Lots of tips. Lots of tips. yeah, probably. That's a casino. Big, heavy tips.

More people make between $20,000 and $40,000 than the average, but also less make, about half make, half the average make over $150,000. Oh, wow. But then there's people who are super rich there, and a lot of it's vacation. These are residents, so that's another thing here. As far as jobs go, only like 1% are like science engineering computers, which it's a – I don't know if – that's the guy calibrating the slot machines, I imagine. 5% is average. Making sure that deck has enough kings and jacks in it.

That's it, man. And four times as many, quote, personal care jobs. Not health care, personal care. So that's rich people. Hairdressers and hair salons. Hairdressers and servants and personal chefs and shit like that. It's rich part-timers and white trash townies. That's what we're dealing with here.

And yeah, that's basically what we have. One way or the other. That's it. That's weird. That's a lot of these sounds. Either everybody's about the same or it's very haves and have-nots like the outsiders, basically. It's one of the two. You're either a greaser or a social.

You're like everybody's the same. One of the two. Or it's like a John Cougar Mellen. It's one of the two. You're either a greaser or a social. You're like, everybody's the same. One of the two. Or it's like a John Cougar Mellencamp video. One of the two. Everybody's kind of, I don't know. I like those towns. You guys are nice. The John Cougar Mellencamp video.

Yeah, in Ohio. It was a nice one. Everybody's just the same. That was good. Yeah, it felt good. It felt good. Everybody's got a jean jacket. Yeah, it's fine.

It's like, why even get divorced? Because that guy looks just like him. I don't even have to cut my mullet. It's fine. It's like, why even get divorced? Because that guy looks just like him. I don't even have to cut my mullet. It's fine. No one cares. I don't have a mullet. But if I had one there, I'd just leave it. You wouldn't have to trim it.

Just go. So 25%, only about a quarter of the fire and police as average, which is a lot of these towns we have that they're understaffed. They count on the county to do that sort of thing. Twice as much maintenance jobs, that sort of thing. Cost of living, 100 being the average, as we always do for cost of living. South Lake Tahoe is a 139. Oh, boy, it's expensive.

It's expensive. It's the first one we've had that's like over. Groceries, utilities, health care, transportation, all above average. But most of all, the housing is a 205. Holy shit. It is double the average. My God. Median home price of $380,000 there.

Try paying that mortgage on 20 grand a year. Wow. My God. 185 is the average for the country. But that's like because you have million dollar houses and you have $30,000. It's crazy. So you got two houses. One's worth 7 million and the other one's worth, I don't know, 70 grand.

Yeah, that's what we got basically. 47.45% vacant. Wow. 12% is the average, so that's a lot. It's all vacation people. Half of it is vacant. 37% are our vacant vacation homes, so the other 10% is vacant homes, which is about average.

That's a quiet town. That's a quiet town unless it's vacation time. 50% of the homes are between $200,000 and $400,000 in that area. And then 28% are over $400,000, which is like twice the average of that sort of thing. If we've convinced you that you need to move to South Lake Tahoe or even if you want a vacation there, we have the South Lake Tahoe Real Estate Report. All right. It's a two-bedroom apartment. The average cost of one there is $950,

which is actually cheaper. Seems steep, though. But it's actually cheaper than the $1,027 average. Still seems steep to me. It's to live there, yeah, probably. I don't know. Maybe if it's nice. Three-bedroom, two-bath, manufactured-looking home that I saw. This looked like it was definitely bolted to the ground so it wouldn't blow away. 1,500 square feet is only $70,000. Yeah. Why rent when you can own that? Yeah. But if you want a nice house, a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,500 square feet, exact same stats. This one, different location, $405,000. So that's what I'm talking about.

Wow. This is an area thing here. A three-bedroom, three-bath, 2,100 square feet, $599,000. And that's a very nice house, though. Three bath, 2,100 square feet, $599,000. And that's a very nice house, though. A third of an acre lot, if you just want to pitch a tent on Early Dawn Trail, which sounds very nice. Get you a Coleman on Early Dawn Trail. Third of an acre for $89,000, which isn't bad, actually.

Wow, that's not awful. Yeah, it's not a great part of town, though, from what I saw. But whatever, that's fine. Basically, they have the schools. They have one high school. They're the Vikings. That's their mascot. They had, like, four elementary schools. Two had to close due to budget cuts in 2004, so have one high school. They're the Vikings. That's their mascot. They had like four elementary schools.

Two had to close due to budget cuts in 2004. So that's not terrific. And also Lake Tahoe Community College is there. At least in upstate New York when we were there, like their shitty towns have real colleges at least. They've got Syracuse. They've got the Orangemen. This is not. They had SUNY schools and all that.

This is just Lake Tahoe Community College, which is not terrific. Things to do if you're looking to hang out over there. We just missed a meeting about the needs of the new senior center in town. That's a big deal. You can visit the El Dorado National Forest or the other state parks. It's all that sort of thing. On March 21st of this year, the police put out a press release to remind residents to lock their vehicles. They said there has been nine reports of thefts from unlocked vehicles in the last week alone.

Why are you leaving your shit unlocked? Because it's a small town. I don't give a shit. I don't care where I am. I'm locking my fucking car. Me too. Yeah, I'm not from a place where it's whatever. No, I'm locking shit up.

I just can't imagine being so naive that you just think nobody will take anything I have. I guess if you've been keeping your car unlocked for 20 years, you just think, whatever. I listen to too many podcasts like this. I watch too many shows like Dateline. I think we're jaded here, I would say, a little bit. I think well-informed is really it. We just know that there's bad shit out there. And I'd rather my shit not become their shit.

I can just lock the door. It's pretty easy. It's just a button. Boop, and it locks. Crime rates there, which is our business here. Property crime, burglary, larceny, theft is actually lower than the national average, which is why people leave their cars unlocked. It's about 20% less than the national average.

Violent crimes, though, are way higher. Violent crimes are about a little less than 20% higher than the national average. So that makes me wonder again, why do you leave your shit unlocked? I can't imagine. Even if your shit doesn't disappear, you are 20% more likely to be raped, murdered, punched in the face for your shit. Especially now that they have a resident named Herbert James Coddington. Oh, God. Let's get into Herbert James Coddington and start here.

He grew up in Brewerton, New York, which is in Onondaga County, which is where Shirley Winters was. That whole story took place in Otisco, New York a couple times ago. So, yeah, this place is over fucking two. I've heard of it twice. Two bad people. Over two. No good.

The only people we know from there are shitbags. Bad, bad people. This guy, I'm just going to say right off the bat, we've had bad people before. This guy might be the worst. Oh, boy. He could possibly be the worst. He's definitely top three. Oh, boy.

It's like a cater. Yeah. And McFadden, I think, was the Texas Hawkins Texas. And then maybe this guy. So we'll get into this here. He comes from a close family. Mother, father, a couple of siblings. I mean, they had an easy, like a nice little life here. Father was an electrical engineer at General

Electric. Like, that's nice. Grew up in a nice house with two cars. Mother was a part-time dental technician. He goes by Herb, by the way, Herbert James Coddington, which why would anyone do that on purpose? I mean, what's his middle name? James? James. Why not just go with that? That's a great name. Why do all these assholes have the middle name of James, by the way? It's always James is the middle name. Why is that? I'm glad it's my first name.

James and Jimmy are just two overused names by dickheads. It is. I'm telling you. But they're used by good people, too. Sometimes. Like, we're here. We're good, right? We're pretty decent people.

Validate us, please. So five stars. Tell us you're decent people. That's all we need to know. We're very happy. The James and Jimmy combo is decent. They're decent people. Validate us, please. So five stars, tell us you're decent people. That's all we need to know. We're very happy. The James and Jimmy combo is decent. They're decent folk. That's all we need to know.

So Herb, actually, very smart. He's measured as a face. You don't even have to say that. Just say, they're not Herbs. They're not Herbs. He's a very smart guy. He has an IQ over 140, which is quite intelligent. He's a real brilliant guy.

His father was on the school board too. His mother, Genevieve, in addition to being a dental technician, was a volunteer at St. Agnes Church. They have a nice family, basically. You look from the outside and you go, that's a nice suburban middle of nowhere. They've got a smart kid. Smart kid, good people, nice jobs.

They go on vacation. You know they go to the shore every year, and they go on their vacation, and the father says, don't make me come back there and beats the shit out of the kids. You know they go to the shore every year and they go on their vacation and the father says, don't make me come back there and beats the shit out of the kids. You know that sort of thing. You know that happened in like a folksy 70s kind of way. Or 60s in his case. He grows up then. He's very close with his family.

Mother, father, couple of siblings. He's born in 1957. So we get that. So it's kind of the 60s. Like a nice 60s family you would think. It's like the Wonder Years. That's the way I'm picturing them, basically. But I think with a little more money. Yeah. The Wonder Years seemed like they were kind of more around my little less-

Generation. Yeah. No, they were more like I felt- I knew I- I felt poorer than the Wonder Years. Oh, I got you. But they were like in the ballpark. Okay. You know, I feel like these people are a little- he's a- father's an electrical engineer at GE.

I feel like that's a little above my- They're doing okay. They're doing little above my – They're doing okay. They're doing good. Yeah, they're doing well. And you aren't. Yeah. Mother made him go to the church, go to Catholic church. That's a good thing.

He hated going to church. Of course he did. He says later on, forced me, forced me, forced me. Didn't want to go. His father was a Protestant and didn't have to go to church with the mother because he wasn't Catholic. So he's like, how come dad doesn't have to go to church and I have to go to fucking church? What is this all about? So it made him bitter toward the church. I wish you would have't Catholic. So he's like, how come dad doesn't have to go to church and I have to go to fucking church? What is this all about? So it made him bitter toward the church. I wish you would have explained it and said

he's Protestant. He's like, well, I'm Protestant too. I'm Protestant too. I'm Jewish. How's that sound? Perfect. I don't have to go to church now. I'm Muslim. I don't want to go. I don't want to go. I'm Amish. I don't care. Whatever. Then they would have made me go churn some butter. Go churn or build something out there. Raise the barn, asshole.

Oh, man. Very smart. Not outdoorsurn or build something out there. Raise the barn, asshole. Oh, man. Very smart. Not outdoorsy or into sports at all. Not a real... Not into that sort of thing. The brainiac nerd. I like him. He was playing chess with his teacher during recess in the fourth grade. He would play chess with the teachers. That's a way to get your ass kicked. That's a good way to get your

ass kicked. Big time. Just very smart. Don't do that. No. He got along with teachers better than kids. We're going to get into that. Socially, he's got some problems here. He's got obsess Don't do that. No. He got along with teachers better than kids. We're going to get into that. Socially, he's got some problems here. He's got obsessive traits also as a child. He follows his parents around the house, shutting lights off as they leave the room, shit like that. Oh, my God.

He's very much, if he's into something, he'll get into it and take it apart and know everything about it and obsess about it. I wish there was books about this kid back then because they would have known already you're a sociopath. Yeah, a little bit. You've got some very sociopathic tendencies. Yeah. Some psychopathic shit going on. Yeah. We need to get you.

I have another theory, too. Not a church. A goddamn psychiatrist. And that's he could have used a psychiatrist early. In third grade, he takes a briefcase to school with him. Oh, no. And cracks it open and starts selling. He made, I don't know what these are, but creepy crawler toys.

Oh, all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He made them. Wow. And he's selling them to the kids. I don't know what he's doing. That's awesome. Yeah, he's got a, you know.

He's selling bugs. You would think, you'd look at that kid and go, all right, he's going to have a good life. He's a genius. He's got it together. He's smart. He's figured out business. Oh, yeah, that's what I mean. He's going to have a stock portfolio in the 10th grade, this kid.

He's really going to know what he's doing. But as he gets older, he has a hard time socially. Like he's a nice kid and all the teachers like him, but he has a problem like he'll speak too loud in class and he'll speak out of turn in class. Things like that. Never violent or angry. Always

considered a nice kid by all. Basically he got, as he got into high school, just obsessed about health things then at that point obsessed about smoking i cannot express to you how much this man hates smoking hates it then don't do it herb oh my god leave everybody the everybody else the fuck alone it's not your problem until he explains how when he was a kid in the 60s he'd go and both his parents smoked and he'd explain how his mother had the big beehive hair doing, didn't want to open the window and mess up her hair. So they're smoking in there and he'd be dying.

And he just, he hates it. He hates doing drugs. He hates junk food, drinking. He's just Mr. Straight Laced as much as it is. And this is odd for a kid in like 1971. Right. That's not normal. He's a kid that should be living in LA right now.

That's exactly sort of. Yeah. And even in He's a kid that should be living in L.A. right now. That's exactly, sort of. Yeah, even in high school, he actually gets a girlfriend. Wow. It's a girlfriend named Joanne Gardner. They were friends since the fourth grade, and then they ended up dating for a few weeks. Herb wanted a little more out of the relationship than her, so she broke it off like that.

But she also said that he was completely fine about it, wasn't a jerk at all, and they remained friends, and he was totally normal and fine. So, I mean, that's a sign of maturity. He's weird in a lot of angles right now. Yeah, it's super weird, right? It didn't even break his heart. Didn't even break, yeah.

It's insane. Maybe it broke his heart. Yeah, he didn't show it outwardly. Exactly. He said at the time that, she also said, Gardner, she said that at the time he had no, like he wasn't sexually perverted at all. No weird, bizarre sexual things. Didn't try to like, you know, jump on her.

No, they didn't even do anything. But he didn't have like, he wasn't trying to force himself on her. He wasn't. It was just very normal, nice teen relationship. Broke up and he said, oh, that's okay. And then they were friends again. They went, you know, they went to the drive-in again. It was very odd like that.

She said, just a real nice guy. I gained an interest in the Mormon church for a while in high school. How sad is that right now that I'm saying he's a weird guy for being normal? Yeah, exactly. That's another. What a weird guy. He's not completely fucked up in the head. I would have went in my room for three days and cried.

He's abnormal. Yeah, we're the normal ones. That's something like that. He gains an interest in the Mormon church for a while in high school, which I think that might have been for girls. I think he basically said, like, I bet I can get a wife that I can get with real quick, and I think I can do that maybe. But he loses faith. He doesn't lose his faith. He never had the faith.

But he loses interest in the Mormon church. He eventually joins the Methodist Youth Fund, which was an all-girls club. That's a good one to join if you're a dude. He did it to meet girls. He's a smart kid to join if you're a dude. He did it to meet girls. He's a smart kid. He worked in the numbers game. Yeah, exactly. And he talked his friend into it too.

He's like, dude, it's all girls. Dude, we're totally going to win. It's just us. And they liked him because he was the only guy. And so they were like so. And he's got a briefcase. Yeah, exactly. He's got creepy crawlers in there.

They elect him president during the first meeting. Yeah, because there's no other ones to be president. It's funny. Well, yeah, back then you probably... Yeah, the women didn't get to be president back then. Back then in a religious organization especially, the women probably weren't allowed to lead it, so they had no president. They just had to wait for a guy to show up, and then he's the president. For so long, those girls were just

meandering around going, what do we do? What do we do? And then a guy walks in, and they're like, what do we do? You're our president now. You don't get much more sexist than the church in the 60s and 70s. That's not, they weren't real equal opportunity, I don't think. The Catholic Church still is like that. I don't know about these other ones.

But anyway, so high school basically hangs out with nerds and outcasts. He wires like everyone else. It's like the early 70s. Everyone had jeans and like tie dyes and like loose shit and long hair and beards and they're smoking weed. Rebellion a little bit. Yeah. It's the early 70s. Like we've seen.

Have you ever seen Dazed and Confused? That's what we're talking about. They graduate the same year as this kid. Wow. So that's what we're talking about. He instead has. He wears a button down crisply iron shirt and perfectly creased pants. He was the one getting smacked around with those fucking bats in that movie.

Yeah. And he's carrying around a briefcase. And this is not a great thing here. 1975, this is the year he graduates also, or the year before, he becomes really into a TV movie. This is what's so weird. So many people, the Menendez brothers, a ton of these people, they see a TV, not even a feature like in the theater. They see a TV movie. Some indie shit. And something, no, that, they see a TV, not even a feature like in the theater. They see a TV movie. Some indie shit.

And something, no, that was cheesy like a TV. This is a TV movie called Sweet Hostage with Martin Sheen and Linda Blair. So big stars in 1975. The Exorcist, Apocalypse Now, big stars, right? In the movie, Sheen plays a smart mental patient who kidnaps Linda Blair and they end up falling in love. Oh, no. Yeah. He feels some sort of kindred spirit with this movie, which I don't get.

Is that Munchausen? What is that syndrome? That's Stockholm. Stockholm, that's it. I don't understand why these idiots take cues from movies and they just think that's a TV movie written in a day and a half to slap on a network at the lowest cost possible. I think I could pull that off. That's his plan for my life.

Like, what is wrong with this idiot? And every other idiot that does that. Hilarious. Unbelievable. And they're usually intelligent people that do it, too. That's the thing. Most of the ones that do this thing are intelligent. You see that, and then they make a plan because they're organized. Wasn't Son of Sam brilliant, too? I thought he had high IQ, too. Nah, he was kind of a...

Nah, he wasn't that bright. Ted Bundy was pretty smart. He was in politics and shit. Yeah, he thought he was like, he's like, I'm going to be. He could outsmart everyone. Absolutely. And yeah, it didn't quite work out for him that well. Another one here, though.

Another one, yeah. It's this one here. 1976, he graduates from high school. He loses his virginity, he said, that year, too. Or I'm sorry, 1975. Exactly, he says June 23 23rd 1975 wow so he knows i don't know the day i don't know shit no but that he's on top of that i definitely did it i hope so yeah i have two kids i swear i have two kids you could ask my wife you could ask my wife

good lord so uh old herb here we have a quote from him on the whole deal. Herb says, quote, in my family, sex was something you didn't talk about. First of all, at everyone. Whose family do you talk about sex with in 1974? Whose family do you talk about sex with in 94? You didn't talk about sex when I was a kid. No. That was 20 years before when I was a kid.

So I can't imagine that that was common to talk about sex. Anyway, he says, there was no emotion. After a certain age, I was not allowed to cry. It weighed on me too much. It warped my mind. I was always a very intense person. The only time I opened up to anyone was with like a steady girlfriend. So if I didn't have anyone to open up to, I had no outlet.

Isn't that life? That's exactly life. He just described the human condition. He just described being an adult. Yeah, being an adult human that deals with life. He just described the human condition. He just described being an adult. Just being an adult human that deals with life. You deal with your shit, and then you get your partner to help you through it. That's life. Yeah. He said everything except for he wished his bills weren't stressing him out so much.

You described life and traffic sucks. Yeah, that's life, idiot. That's so sad that he doesn't understand that that's just what we're supposed to do. Yeah, that's what you are supposed to do. That's the burden you're saddled with in being a human adult. Yeah. Sorry. He's not good at being an adult.

No. He's really not, as we're going to get into here. He goes to college, actually. Goes to Oswego State. All right. Because he had a pretty good SAT scores, too. He had a 1310 on his SATs. It was a damn fine score, actually.

Is that Northern New York? Yeah, that's a SUNY school. Yeah, Oswego State. So he just goes to, you know, state schools aren't that expensive there. Especially back then, he could probably go very, very inexpensively. Oh, that's where he was at this time. That's right. That's where he goes to college there.

Now, before college, Herb had talked about with his friend about wanting to become an attorney. That was his goal going in, but he ends up dropping out of college because he said high school just didn't prepare him for the study habits of it. And he's not good at being an adult. We already know that. And he's bad at being an adult. He begins to exhibit some strange behavior. This is when shit gets weird. After he drops out of college, he shaves his head.

He wears white pajamas everywhere and pretends and acts seriously like he's in character of, like he's a character in a kung fu movie. What? Nuts, right? That's what I mean. He starts to kind of go – David Carradine kung fu movies? Yeah, like a Bruce Lee movie or something.

Like he moves his lips a lot and then says what he has to say. And goes into kung fu poses. And he doesn't know kung fu. He pretends he's being dubbed. Yeah, he's being dubbed and he just strikes a pose like he's going to kick you in the face. He doesn't know how to do that and he's in pajamas. Also, too, he takes all his money. He's very interested in gambling because he's extremely good at math, extremely good with numbers, extremely good at remembering numbers.

So that's a smart thing. He's actually thinking, hey, I can connect this to something that can do me some good. He takes all his money to Vegas after this to win big. But he doesn't find out until he gets there that you have to be 21 to gamble, and he's not 21. What the fuck? So he gets all the way out there with all his money and has to turn around and come home because he can't do shit. He didn't realize there was an

age limit? Nope, had no clue. He's like, I'm 18. I can gamble. What a dummy. So anyway, college, like I said, he says it was too easy in high school, so he never learned how to study. So he said college, it was just overwhelming because you had to study and he didn't know how to do it. He says one of his roommates was a bad influence on him.

He blames everybody but himself constantly. Yeah. Everything his whole life. Well, my mother made me go to church. Well, that's an excuse for what you do in the future, as we'll find out. He says one of his roommates would cut classes. And he said he never even thought to do that until he saw the roommate do it. And he was like, I'll just not go. That's the way to get out of you mean we can just not go

that's awesome just not go you just see him not go and he'd be like you just don't go and he's like i just skip and he's like oh all right i guess i'll do that ah that's hilarious he just doesn't he doesn't get common sense shit he understands books to a t exactly very good at them and i just doesn't understand life and i have a theory on this too that we're going to get into in a moment after a couple we get a couple more of his little peccadillos here. He says, quote, this is about girls, another quote from him. He says, quote, at Oswego State, had I been able to find a steady girlfriend there, I would have been all right. But it didn't work out.

I was too much of an angry young man. By the time I got to college, I had enough problems. It just didn't work out with girls. You can tell he's got some issues with this. And it's girls are picking up on it already. Well, yeah, girls can sense that. You don't want the weird guy who's like desperate to get you. They're like, hey, dude, they like.

I mean, I'm not a play it cool, man. Just play it cool. And then don't be just be you. Don't be creepy. Just don't be creepy with girls. Come on. There's women in their college. Just be a normal dude and treat people with respect.

Don't be strange with women. And you'll get yours, I promise. Yeah. Just talk to them. And if they want to talk to you, they'll talk back. And if not, leave them the fuck alone. That's it. It's not easy.

That's adulting. That's how you do it right there. So he leaves school. And so, you know, he's a socially awkward guy. He's angry. What do you think he's going to do? Not discover oil either. Have a child.

No. He joins the Marine Corps. Oh's angry. What do you think he's going to do? Not discover oil either. Have a child. No. He joins the Marine Corps. Oh boy. So you know you're socially maladjusted guy with anger issues. Let's go in the Marine Corps here. That'll correct it. This is post Vietnam. So they were dying to get people to sign up because the ranks were thinning. Because everybody else died.

And no one wanted to sign. The military wasn't a real popular option in 1977 for people. It's your ticket to somewhere else where you get to just die there. Or you just saw it happen. It was over already. But it still had a negative connotation for kids to want to join there. But they told him he could choose his job.

That old scam that they never tell the truth on. He chooses intelligence. So they say, great, that's perfect. Here's an M-16. No, we'll put you right in the intelligence department as a typist and a clerk. Enjoy, asshole. Serve your country. Exactly the opposite of what he wants to do, obviously. He goes into basically a fit of rage over this

whole thing. He feels totally betrayed and goes AWOL. Wow. So now he's AWOL from the Marines. So somebody taught him, you know, you can just not show up. He did it. That college roommate was an asshole, man. I'm telling you. His father talks him into returning you're gonna go to federal prison you should probably go back upon return he's given a psychological exam which uh ends up getting him an honorable discharge as psychologically

unfit for service awesome in the marines that's awesome you want crazy people in the marines too fucking crazy for the marines i don't know. That's how fucking crazy you are. The only place you can go is West. A mental hospital. At that point. Or Vegas, either one. Yeah, Vegas is a great place for those people. So we have another quote from him here. This is about the last of the quotes here because I'm tired of hearing from this asshole.

But he says, quote, I was thinking of being a lawyer or a journalist, but at the time they were projecting a glut of lawyers and journalists. I could have graduated earlier, but they had no accelerated programs. High school prepared me zero. I got a job slinging burgers at Burger King. I worked at the Sears Stock Room. I sold cars at Sam Bell Dodge. I sold shoes at Baker Shoes.

That's not a good advertisement for these businesses. That's not a great resume. No, it's definitely not. So he's home from the Marines. He doesn't know what to do. He ends up moving to Las Vegas in 1980. So why not? Land of opportunity.

And he's still interested in gambling and math and cards and all this sort of thing. So he works at two casinos during 1980 and that whole thing there. He's also, too, learning the card counting thing. Oh, boy. And he's becoming a professional gambler. Okay. He starts making a living off of gambling, quits the jobs at the casinos. Can you imagine?

Yeah, that's his life. Just stressful life. Oh, God, Jesus Christ. Oh, fuck. I couldn't imagine. Then again, we're comics, and we're like, please book or email us back. So never mind. This is probably easier.

It's just as stressful. You at least can choose when you want to do it, at least, with this. You just show up. You don't get booked. No one tells you when you're allowed to show up at the blackjack table and piss away your mortgage money. You know what I mean? No one get booked. No one tells you when you're allowed to show up at the blackjack table and piss away your mortgage money. No one shows you. No one tells you or forces you.

That's pretty good. I'm impressed. Analogies, man. On August 18th, 1981, we have a bad thing happen here. The body of a 12-year-old girl named Sheila Jo Keister is found, partially clothed in a wash in the desert east of Las Vegas.

She's been raped and strangled and has very distinct bite marks all over her body as well. Fuck. Not good at all, this poor little girl. And they don't know who did it. They have a sketch, but that's it. They have a sketch of someone who was seen in the area. That's all they have. They have nothing else to go on.

This is pre-DNA. They don't have anything to go on, basically. And those sketches look like everybody. They kind of look like everybody. They're just vague. Yeah, it's a vague sketch of a white guy, basically. It's a cartoon. Does it look like anybody?

It kind of looks like Scooby-Doo. Yeah. I hate sketches. This poor girl. So 1982, Herb here, Herb Coddington, he's in Las Vegas, and he is a professional gambler by then. That's all he does. He ends up writing, around this time, two books on gambling. Jesus.

Two books. I mean, he's authoring books here. He's a card counter, and he's a really good card counter. He becomes friends with another man named Michael Zaramata. He's another gambler and another card counter. This guy, Zaramata, has an advanced mathematics degree. He's a very, very smart guy with an education. And even he said that Herb had a very sophisticated understanding of the subject of mathematical probabilities of gambling.

Wow. And they discussed it in detail. So he's got to be really, really on his game because this guy knew what he was talking about. Now, at one point, Herb tells Zarameda that he's been practicing clairvoyance, too, and can predict the cards in Baccarat. This starts happening later on, 84, 85. Now, also, too, he's a member of a team of card counters. We've seen movies about these guys that go from MIT and blah, blah, blah. 21?

That movie is amazing. This is a local group of people that do that. They're card counters. They go in. They're a team. They go from casino to casino, and they work this. They play blackjack. That's his game. They have symbols and shit that tell you what to casino, and they work this. They play blackjack. That's his game.

They got symbols and shit that tell you what to do. And they're counting. They know what to do. If this guy hits, then you're here. It's crazy. So at this point, Herb meets a guy named Alan Hacker. He's a guy who's interested in card counting and just kind of basically hangs around the casinos. He knows a bunch of these card counters.

He's like a card counter hanger on kind of guy. I know some of those guys. You know, that's – yeah, just kind of like to be around the gambling aspect. Comedy has tons of them. Oh, God. Jesus, do they have tons of them. 98% of them. So Hacker would later say that Herb was both cunning and sly and that he was a bumbler, basically. Both from time to time.

So he's cunning and sly or stupid. Or an idiot, yeah. He said Herb would do inappropriate things when under stress while gambling and counting cards. Like he would do weird things, inappropriate things, didn't handle stress well, which is part of his medical diagnosis later on. Hacker also says that Herb was brilliant in mathematics but was odd to most people and most people were uncomfortable around him. Says that he was socially about a 12 or a 13-year-old. Okay, now I'm going to jump in at this point. I have a theory and I'm not a doctor, but I also do have an autistic son. And I believe he's autistic.

I was going that way. I kept finding all these little ticks that you were saying and these little signals. I'm just like, sounds like this man has some autism. And by the way, like I said, my 10 year old son is autistic. I deal with this shit every day. If one of you motherfuckers says one word about this shit, I swear to God, Jimmy will be doing a fucking

episode alone about me strangling you. Shut the fuck up because I deal with this shit every fucking day and I'll say what I want about it. This is this is what it sounds like. I mean, we don't know medically, but right. All of the circumstantial, all of the anecdotal shit of this and that really sounds like he probably has some form of Asperger's. Now, anecdotal shit of this and that really sounds like he probably has some form of Asperger's. Now, there's other problems also, but the math, the social, the being too loud, the not being able to, that sounds like my son to a T. We're going to praise him well and hope he doesn't turn out like this. Right.

That's the point, is that you are tackling that through your parenting. And he goes to, he gets help. His parents clearly didn't do that. No, they were just like, he's fine. He's smart. He's smart. But they didn't notice the little tics. They were just like, hey, he's a weird kid. That's what it was back then, he gets help. His parents clearly didn't do that. No, they were just like, he's fine. He's smart. He's smart. But they didn't notice the little tics. They were just like, hey, he's a weird kid.

That's what it was back then, a weird kid. But I'm sorry to go off on that whole thing. But honestly, that's how I feel, and I'm kind of passionate about it. So whatever. Kind of. Kind of. Kind of passionate. You told the listeners to go fuck themselves if they disagree.

Well, not disagree. If they say I'm not allowed to have an opinion when I deal with this every goddamn day. If they say autism is not a thing to talk about, shut up. Because I know. But I get it. I get it. I'm completely on board. And anybody listening, I'm guaranteeing, is on board as well.

Go on. I hope so. So anyway, Herb and Hacker, this Alan Hacker, also have a similar interest in target shooting. Oh, boy. Herb also has an interest in methods of killing women. Oh, my God. Just in a general, like, ha-ha, look at this. I'll bet you this one does that.

What? Literally. The two were in a gun shop in 1982 when Herb brought up a booklet that he read by an alleged ex-CIA agent that describes many ways to kill people. Oh, my God. Like some, like, throwing liquid nitrogen in someone's face and freezing their- Terrible. Yeah.

It was called, like, the head cold or something. What? What? It's so stupid. What a vicious attack. It was like a booklet, like a fun time booklet. Terrible. Yeah, it was called like the head cold or something. What a vicious attack. It was like a booklet, like a fun time booklet. One that really caught Herb's eye was one about flex cuffs.

Flex cuffs or like zip ties, as you want to call them, like with their basically riot handcuffs. Or if your family member somewhere is a mechanic, they know exactly what zip ties are. You use them on everything. Exactly. The plastic things that you'll see cops, if there's too many people to put handcuffs on, they put the plastic things on. Your weird uncle probably put them on you at Christmas or

Thanksgiving thinking it was funny. Your weird John Wayne Gacy-like uncle. He's zip-tied your hand to your left ankle. Yeah. Now, he's getting super weird just besides that. He's also admonishing, yelling at friends for not maximizing fuel efficiency when they drive. He's obsessed.

Turn your AC off. Literally. He drives extremely slow to save gas. And he'll yell at his friends, like, what are you doing? You're wasting fuel. And they're like, I don't care. Mind your business. I'm paying for it.

Yeah. Like I said, hated cigarette smoke, which the casino, being a professional gambler, is the place you want to spend the most time. The thing you hate is. Why don't you bowl bowl too, dickhead? Exactly. He hangs out at the bowling alley in the casino. He actually has a girlfriend. He has a few, but one that he lives with, a girl named – a live-in girlfriend named Kelly Clough.

Okay. She said that he was sexually peculiar and used the word pervert when describing him. Oh, boy. She said that he would shave off her pubic hair and tell her she looked like a 10-year-old. Okay. And this was 1982, 83. This wasn't when people just shaved off their pubes. I was on board right up until he had a comment about it.

This was, yeah. If you shaved anyone's pubes off back then and they didn't want to shave them, you said, I need to shave your pubes off. You were a fucking pedophile basically back then. Yeah, tell her she looked like a 10-year-old. He would treat her like a child and spank her and then say, quote, just lay still. Herbie won't hurt you. Oh, boy.

Yeah, he's a fucking weirdo. That's creepy as fuck. This guy is awful. I don't like him. 1984, he's arrested in Las Vegas on a cheating scam. Probably all this card counting. He is released on $500 bail and the case kind of hung in limbo. Nothing ever came of it there.

Now, 1985, he moves to South Lake Tahoe, which is where we find him now. He begins to lose touch with reality when he moves there. He moves into a trailer park that we'll get into in a second. He's very lonely and said he didn't know how to go about changing that, didn't know how to meet women, just isn't apt as an adult, like we said. Not real good at being an adult. He was really into science fiction and was having a hard time distinguishing reality. And in the last five years, he moved there. He had made $200,000 he'd saved up in five years gambling.

Pretty good. Which is, if you're 200 grand up in five years, that's a huge, especially in 1985. That's huge. I've made about 40 bucks gambling in my life. You're a pro. Yeah. And that's, if you're up at all, it's a miracle. I'm so thrilled.

Yeah. You're a pro, yeah. And if you're up at all, it's a miracle. I'm so thrilled. Yeah. By 1986, he'd gone so off the deep end, basically, that his parents had to lend him $300. Wow. He lost, a psychologist later said he lost $150,000 in a year due to completely abandoning his system.

He would see just dealer would like scratch his head or something. He would take that as a signal of some kind that he needs to go on a weird run and totally change his betting. And lost everything. Like I said, took everything as a sign. This is the time when everything's a sign. He'll see if he sees a certain number pop up on something, that's a sign that he needs to do this. What the fuck?

And if he sees this, that's a sign that he shouldn't do something else. That's completely unrelated to what he's doing. It's just that's people start getting in their head and it's a lot of – he's mainly diagnosed with borderline personality disorder a lot, which stress triggers that big time. Yeah, it sends people into that. So there's a Dr. Mark Mills who examined him later. He said, quote, when he switched to this kind of thinking, he lost $150,000 in a year and a half.

The rational response might have been to drop the system. Herb persevered. He was already delusional. Wow. So we're getting into that here. Early 86, he moves into the Tahoe Verde Trailer Park, which sounds picturesque. Yeah. Using a childhood friend's name, saying he was his roommate so he could get past the

whole credit thing, because he didn't have credit, I guess. Without the guy's consent, the guy lives in another state. He still lived in New York. He had no idea he was doing it. Also opened up an international calling card in that friend's name as well. Oh, shit. So, yeah, that's not great. He goes home for Christmas, and his father said he seemed normal.

His mother said he seemed a bit nervous and edgy, but she thought it was just the stress of gambling. He's like, he's out there as a professional gambler. It's got to be stressful to not know where your money is coming from. What a terrible way to live. Absolutely. Now, at this point, early 1987, his landlord starts seeing large amounts of carpet and wood he keeps bringing into his trailer.

Big deliveries of wood, plywood, carpet, foam. He's Bob Vila now? He's fixing up this old trailer? Yeah, it's a trailer. So I don't know what he's doing in there, obviously. Now, on early of May 1987, Coddington starts calling. He calls a blackjack dealer here named Candace Smith.

He was a regular at her blackjack table. She thinks his name is Gary Sarno, but that's not who he says he is here, but that's who she knows him as, and that's how, whatever. Now, he commented to another dealer at one time that Smith, quote, had a pretty little daughter, which is terrible here. He calls her saying his name is John Parrott. He calls at 3 o'clock in the morning. Oh, boy. Which is an odd time to call someone on a business call. He says that he's from Parrott Communications in Atlanta, and he uses a southern accent,

which apparently wasn't very good also. I'm sure. He tells her that he got her name from a modeling agency and wanted to use her in a beer commercial. Okay. He also mentions— I want to use your tiny daughter in a beer commercial? No, he wants to use her, Candace her in a beer commercial. Okay. He also mentions. I want to use your tiny daughter in a beer commercial. No, he wants to use her, Candace, in a beer commercial. And he also mentions the daughter as well.

He's like, hey, maybe we can do something with the daughter. It'd be great to have the baby in the commercial too. Yeah. What? So it's like a 10-year-old daughter. She says no and yells at him for the hour of the call. He says that he's played at her table and knows quite a bit about her. Oh, boy.

So she hangs up on him because she's scared probably. That's terrifying. Yeah. I would say at 3 o'clock in the morning. He calls back at 9 a.m. saying, this is Parrott again, John Parrott. And he says, I want you to know this is legit. I'm not trying to fool you or anything. Here, talk to my partner.

And so basically. Here, talk to my partner. Here, talk to my partner. And then he starts talking to normal. And literally she said, you heard, you know, he acted like the phone was going. And then you just heard the same voice without an accent say, hello? And so she was like, and he said, hello, and can you meet us for lunch? And so she hung up on them, and they never called back.

Picture him wearing those white pajamas, and he's doing karate poses while he's making these phone calls. 100%. Now, early May 1987, same time, a man using the name Mark Bloomfield is calling Reno Modeling Agency saying he's looking for teen girls for an anti-drug commercial. Oh, no. On May 14th, the caller calls the Barbizon Agency. We've all heard of that. If you think you got it, call the Barbizon. It's 2 o'clock in the afternoon.

They've got a commercial on TV. Absolutely. Those are not the things you want to call. No. Leave cordon bleu out of your life. Absolutely. This man, Mark Bloomfield, claiming to be from parrot communications in atlanta georgia okay you know who that is yeah uh so may 15th the man identifying himself as mark bloomfield shows up at

barbizon uh he has a car business card that says john parrot on it he they said he seemed nervous and in disguise which is not the best thing you want when you're asking for teen girls to be put in your care can i have a nervous and in disguise they which is not the best thing you want when you're asking for teen girls to be put in your care. Can I have a nervous and in disguise? They said his hair was obviously dyed black, like jet black. He's got spray paint on his face. He's all over, like two inches down his hairline. Slicked back with a ton of gel.

And also, he had a real mustache and horn-rimmed glasses on that they said just didn't look like they fit. They weren't his. They weren't his. Yeah, just a- He just had some 80-year-old lady's glasses on. Yeah. There's a beaded fucking thing that goes around the neck to hold him on.

I just see him. Yes, hello. I'm Mark Bloomfield. My name is Bloomfield. I'd like some teenage girls. No, no. This is my real voice. I don't know what you mean.

This is all on the up and up. No. And then he runs out the door, just takes off. I'm not nervous. Barbazon, having half a fucking brain in their head, declined to provide him with any models because they thought he was a little weird, right? So he also, this Bloomfield, stopped at the Aviance Modeling Agency a couple days before, and he had brown hair and glasses then, not black hair.

So he's switching here. Now, May 14th, this is in between those two, Maybel Mabbs-Martin. We'll call her Mabbs here. She's 71 years old. She's 69 years old. She's 69 years old. She's the owner of the Showcase Finishing and Modeling School. She sets up an audition for Mark Bloomfield for about a dozen teenage girls. He has dyed black hair and glasses at this point, so he dyed it sometime.

Mabbs? Mabbs, come on. Twelve girls auditioned, including a 14-year-old named Alicia Toma and a 12-year-old named Monica Burge. Bloomfield picks three of the girls, including Alicia and Monica, but he deems the third girl, quote, looks too old, she said. But basically, it was kind of, she didn't want to- She didn't make his dick hard. She didn't want to ride.

No, no. She had to go somewhere with family the day of the shoot, so she didn't want to ride to the shoot with the other girls. And he said, well, just never mind. Yeah. We'll do it all together. Anyway. So, Mabs Martin takes the girls to Tahoe to meet Mark at the Nugget Casino where they're all going to get together, where they're all going to meet up at the Nugget Casino at the restaurant and drive together to the location of the shoot, which is in Lake Tahoe.

The girls are said that they're going to make $50 an hour. So, you know, for a girl, a young girl in 1980, you know, 87, that's decent money. And you're starting out, whatever. So on May 16th at 7.30 a.m., Mabbs tells her son she's heading to Tahoe for the shoot. She grabs her friend. She picks up her friend, 67-year-old Dorothy Dottie Walsh. These are old lady names, Dottie and Mabbs,

and they're nice old ladies, you know. She's going to come with her, accompany her up to the deal there. All four, Alicia and Monica and Mabbs and Dottie, are all jumping in Mabbs' 1984 Chrysler Fifth Avenue. Oh boy. Decent car from back then. She's going. They arrive at the Nugget. They wait for Bloomfield. Now when they

did the audition, Bloomfield was wearing a pinstripe suit, very put together. This dark thing now. Now he when he gets in here, he meets them. They all jump in Mabbs' car. He jumps in the back seat with the girls. Now he's got sweatpants on, and he's sweaty, and they say he smells funny.

So now he's probably been- He just got out of the gym, and he's been drinking. He doesn't drink at all. He probably gets- He's probably been up for days, though, in some sort of manic episode, basically. Smells like B.O. Yeah. They drive to the Tahoe Verde Trailer Park and arrive at Coddington's trailer. Anybody in sweatpants, you know they're fucking weirdos.

It's not great. Now, and they don't question this. That's how you know. They say nothing. Not to say these people are, but that's how you know what a white, trashy area it is. That when you show up for a commercial shoot and you go to a trailer park, not a trailer set up on a set. Right.

It's changing. This is a trailer park. And they say, OK, this is where we're going to get set up. And they go, yeah, that's fine. This is where it's at. So that's odd. So they all go inside where he says the girls can change and freshen up their makeup in a back room.

Right. And he has a back room there. He directs them to a room at the back of the trailer. They open the door. The room has wood walls, which is odd for a trailer. Wood wall. Not paneling like, you know, your shit, like wood walls. Really?

Like plywood walls. Okay. Now we've got a problem. That's a death room. With pictures of models hung on the wall. Not hung guys and not huge cocks. Pictures hung. Right.

You know what I'm saying. Whatever. Anyway. Jesus Christ. I was like, are they going to take that that way? No mirror in the room. No? No mirror in the room. No. No mirror in the room.

Okay. They're all very confused. How are we supposed to get ready? You want us to see our faces in these mirrors, in the pictures of these girls? Yeah. The four girls walk into the room. They stop. They see this.

They turn around to him. That's where we have to stop because we're out of time. Yeah. That's a two-parter. That's a two-parter. that's a two-parter. It's a two-parter, guys. Come on, we're pushing an hour here. You like that? Not bad.

You son of a bitch. Yeah, that's good. I was excited. I was too. The second half of the story is absolutely insane. It's insane and it was way too much for one episode. And it's so interesting. It's really worth two episodes.

I'm going to tell you right now too. I'm going to give you an experience that I've had in the next one, too. Please, yeah, do that about your daughter. I can't wait. Yeah, I'd really like to hear that because, yeah, you had a sleazy casting agent type guy. That was a potential. This shit happens still, people.

It still happens, even with Google. It's fucking terrifying. So we have that. That's our story of South Lake Tahoe. We'll see you next week for the end of it. Alicia and Monica and Mads and Dottie will find out. Hopefully they get out of this situation, but we're going to have to leave it as a cliffhanger. I love it. I love it. Guys, please get on iTunes. Give us those reviews.

We need them really, really bad. So please give us five stars. Tell us. We don't give a shit what you tell us. It doesn't matter. Tell us. Yeah, you like broccoli. That's fine. Great. Just it helps us out a ton on the business and really does. Also, too, if you want to help us out a little bit more, if you really like what we're doing here, you can get on patreon.com slash crimeandsports. Crime and Sports is our other podcast, but it all goes to us. If you want to drop us a few bucks there or if you'd like to make just a one-time donation, you can go to PayPal. And our PayPal is crimeandsports at gmail.com. So if you want to do that. Also, too, you can follow us on social media at uh

at small town pod on twitter or that's facebook god damn it i do it every time small town pod on facebook murder small on twitter you can do that send us a line tell us what you're up to and what we what you want to do when you love hearing what you guys are doing when you're listening to it cracks me up when these chicks talk about uh they just put fresh new sheets on and they can't wait to get in bed with their favorite two people that's hilarious horrible horrible horrible story but uh you can do that also here are some people here we're going to give you these shout outs right now some people that were very very kind to us here uh firstly uh the people that donated to us uh have been very very sweet linda prass james cook kelly everett uh keely heck gram O'Donnell,

and Andy in the U.K. Again, the U.K. is sending us a sweet little something or other. Thank you so much. Guys, we appreciate that so much. Can't tell you guys what it means to us. It really means the world. We don't make a lot of money here, so it means everything. Ellie Nerdy, Stephanie at Baker Baseball.

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It's awesome. Yeah, he's the best, man. Melissa Sillsby, Alexandra, Celine, Greg Lashley, Charlie at CB, CDB 1991, Adrian Davis, Jillian Hobday, Monica in Seattle, I see you, boo, Jay Green, Jamie Marshall at Jamie Dalton. That's weird. Are you running for something? Middle name? Dalton maybe thinks he's

from Roadhouse. It's a girl. It's a lady. Big Patrick Swayze fan. Not to be confused with Jamie at Following Athena in the UK. Thank all of you so much for listening and thank you for interacting. And then happy birthday to Dan Boss. Thank you.

Happy birthday. He's a vet. He's a father of four and a good dude and we like him a lot. He's a fucking hero. Thank you very much for being and supporting us here. Happy birthday. And we love you guys and you can't get rid of us, man. We'll be back.

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we will see you next week, guys. It's been our pleasure. Bye! Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with W Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

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