Small Town Murder - #113 - Just Being Myself in Clearview, Washington

Episode Date: April 4, 2019

This week, in Clearview, Washington, a man is troubled all his life. Drugs lead to arrests & jail as he slowly progressed in the nature of his crimes, until he finally commits a truly heinous act, and is sent to prison. Problem is, one day, he got out. When he did, he wasted no time in both picking up where he left off, and seeking revenge against all who he feels has wronged him. Will he succeed? Along the way, we find out that you had to bribe people to get them to this town, that parole boards should really do a little homework before releasing people early, and that sometimes even the most brutal act yields little sympathy!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Clearview, Washington, a lifelong criminal commits a violent act, then seeks revenge against all who he feels wronged him. Will he succeed? back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us again on another wild, crazy adventure known as Small Town Murder. Every week is as crazy as it gets, and this week is no exception. This is an especially, especially crazy thing today.

Tell me more, James. We're going to deal with one of the most vile human beings that we've ever talked about. And that's saying something for us, because this show could alternately be called Vile Human Beings with James Petrogal and Jimmy Westman. That could be the name of this fucking show. As a matter of fact, that's... How did we not do that?

That's actually, that would be a good show. You don't even have to have, doesn't always have to be murder. You'd just be terrible people. Yeah. A show that's making fun of terrible people. That's ours. Nobody take that.

Vile human. We're fucking copywriting that. It's so great, James. We're at least going to hold that for a minute, I think. But that's that's what we're dealing with this week. It's nuts. So thank you guys for joining us. And thank you.

Fucking brilliant. It's it's just weird. It's so much fun. We're going to do this. I'm telling you, this is going to happen. So we're going to have all that stuff. Can you imagine people all around the country? Did you see the new Vile Human Beings last night?

I think we're on to something as a matter of fact. I think that's just called the news. Yeah, that's true. We'll just pick out the human beings we find the most vile. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we'll just pick out the human beings we find the most vile. So thank you, everyone, for your reviews this week on iTunes, Apple Podcasts, the purple icon, whatever the hell that thing is there. It helps us a lot.

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to give you all this crazy information. Trust us when we say you do not have to like sports. As a matter of fact, it's almost better if you don't like sports because we're really making fun of a lot of it. So it's really better even if you don't like sports, I would say you should be more drawn to crime and sports you probably like john oliver he talks about it too there you go yeah so do that uh check that out go over there you can get all of your merchandise

there everything like that check for tickets for upcoming live shows which we're going to announce a slew of them coming up pretty soon calm down they're coming they're coming don't ask me every day are you coming to i don't know where it's in the works. Yeah, they're just going to tell us, hey, we got all these dates. And then we tell you. Yeah, and then we'll tell you about that. They tell us 10 minutes later we tell you. That's pretty much how it goes. We don't know.

It hasn't been 10 minutes yet. Trust us. We have no idea if you don't have any idea. So thank you for doing that and get on that and find some tickets once they do come out, which they haven't yet. So that's really a moot point. Anyway. You're the only one that is out.

Moving on. You can't even buy four. You can't do that. Also, our producers, if you want to be one of our producers who we're going to talk about at the end of the show in glowing, loving terms, the people we love the most, you can do that very easily by going to patreon.com slash crimeinsports or heading over to PayPal

using our email address, crimeinsports at gmail.com. You can make donations there, and you can find those links right from shutupandgivememgmail.com. You can make donations there, and you can find those links right from shutupandgivememurder.com. That's right. Speaking of Patreon, guess what we're going to have for you this week? Yes.

We are going to put up a Patreon bonus. Thank you, James. So we're going to do that. Yeah, so it's going to be like a mini episode of just a crazy-ass story that I found that we're going to try to cram it into the shortest amount of time. So it will be like a John Oliver piece that's just like, I have all this information.

Shut up. We're going to do this, but it'll be crazy and fun. So I don't know. I think it's the $10 level. Anybody at the $10 or above level, I think is going to maybe five. I don't know what the hell it is. Look on there. You'll be able to see it once we post it.

If you want to get on that so you can get on there and we'd appreciate it. There's some more info for you. We'll give you some of that stuff so that all done all the house cleaning out of the way thank god we must do the disclaimer yeah it's a comedy show it is all the facts are real believe it or not as crazy as they are everything is real but we're comedians we're gonna make jokes there's plenty of jokes to be had what's so funny about murder a lot of shit i'll tell you i'll tell you quite a lot of stuff maybe not the actual crime itself but all the stuff around it is a lot of crazy circumstances and if you can't find humor

in it you're not looking hard enough let's just say that so if you think that sounds great we are going to have an awesome time with some bad stuff uh if you think that true crime and comedy should never go together and they just don't mix well you're in the wrong place so you should go somewhere where they don't mix and uh have a good one and enjoy for the rest of you though from the rooftops from your cubicle out your car window or if when you're in a conservative office in a cube in the bathroom stall into your arm like you're sneezing let him say shut up and give me murder let's do it jimmy let's go on a trip i'd love to. Shall we? Let's do this. Let's get out of where we've been. We've been in the southeast there.

We were in Georgia, and we were all in Ohio and Delaware. We've been all around. Let's head back out west. Oh, okay. What can you say? Let's go see the Pacific Ocean here. I'm going to head out to Washington. Yes.

Washington State. It's been a while since we've been to Washington State here. It's a bit too close to Oregon for my taste. Oh, you bastards. You sons of bitches. Oh, you bastards. You sons of bitches. You pronunciation Nazi bastards. Worse than Minnesota.

We love you, Oregon, but come on. Relax. Don't let the book down. We're going to Washington. We're going to Clearview, Washington. Yeah. Clearview, Washington. Are you sure that's how it's pronounced?

It could be Clearview. I'm not sure. It's it's pronounced? It could be Clearview. I'm not sure. It's a German town, Clearview. Clearview-way. Clearview-way, yeah. You never know. That's the thing. And we'll have a bunch of people like, I know you don't care.

Excuse me. I know you don't care. But yes, no, I don't care. Clearview, Washington. Stop right there. Yeah, that's it. Well, then why are you doing this? You could have saved yourself a few, you know... Keystrokes and 10.

Keystrokes on the old carpal tunnel thumb. Just relax. So northwest Washington, but not by the coast. There's inlets everywhere or panhandles, as we like to call them here, everywhere. So this is that's why there's so many murders in Washington state. If you're wondering, there's always serial killings. Yeah, there's 7000 panhandles in that state.

What do you expect from these people? They can't help it. Bundy and the Green River. Yeah, and who knows what else is up there. So also, I was going to say, I-5 killer started up there, ended up up there, I don't remember. Check out Crime and Sports. Right, and you'll know.

Episode 55 on Randall Woodfield, who played... Tweet us and tell us, did he start or end there? That's the thing. He played football for, like, what? 15 minutes? Yeah. He was, like, at a training camp for the Packers. That's a crime in sports.

If you're like, I don't like sports, guess what? Doesn't matter. There's a legit bonafide killer in there. There you go. There's a lot of legit bonafide killers. But I mean, serial killer with a fucking nickname. Yeah, he's a nicknamed Ann Rule stamped serial killer. You're not a serial killer unless Ann Rule writes a book of you and says, you're a serial

killer, sir. So this place is about a half hour to Seattle. It's just, it's north of Seattle. So it's about a half hour down to Seattle, about an hour down to Tacoma, which is just south of there. And then about two and a half hours to Raymond, Washington, episode 59. This is 113. So the last we were there was 59.

So it's been a while. That's where our buddy Terry lives. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Shout out to our buddy Terry. He comes out to our shows.

Good guy. So it's in Snohomish County. Yeah. I'm sure I pronounced that wrong. You nailed it. Snohomish, Snohomish. I think it's Snohomish. Snohomish.

It could be Snohomish. It could be Snohomish. It could be Snohomish. I have no fucking idea. There's. Snohomish. It could be Snohomish. It could be Snohomish. It could be Snohomish. I have no fucking idea. There's multiple ways. I sound like you at the end of the show with the producers. But we're going to go with Snohomish County. Okay.

Zip code 98296. Area code 360. It's about four and a half square miles, this area. And we'll talk about it here. That was real interesting though at the so the so zip codes this gets like one of the fucking last ones but it gets one of the first area codes how the fuck does that happen area codes does that mean new hampshire somebody just gave one up the other one i need this one give it to somebody else if you notice area codes aren't like sequential in terms of geography.

They aren't? No. What are Arizona's area codes? Yeah, that's a good point. They're not next to each other. It's not 602 and 603. It's a 520. It's a good point.

603 is like New Hampshire or something. 480 and 602. Yeah, it's all mixed up. So weird. It's all mixed up. I'm sure it has something to do with some... It's like the iTunes funky algorithm except with phone companies where they just decided to give them out in different ways. they drew them out of a hat the motto of this place of the county actually is uh quote welcome to the heart of the pnw specific northwest obviously um or this is

the other one it sure would be hard to find dead people in these forests so there's that too yeah it's uh inviting that then you wonder why there's so many killers up there stop inviting them yeah to hide their corpses in your forest you'll find bigfoot before the dead body probably uh so this this area here uh it started out um like people started coming about 1861 you started seeing a lot of settlements around here of you know non-native settlements anyway uh it was it was a this was the temporary county seat in 1861, this area here. Well, the county government was permanently moved to Cadyville, then later Snohomish, later on that year. And then the city of Everett came along in 1893, and their city tried to get the county

seat moved there instead. How many of these small towns? What is tried to get the county seat moved there instead every how many of these small towns what is the draw of the county seat they love it do you is it is it a money thing do you get to distribute the money it's got to be it seems like all you're doing is keeping paperwork like that's all it was like they kept the records and this one who gives a shit for fucking work that's what i mean let them have the goddamn records i don't want to do it someone's got to keep watching off them all the time we We have to hire somebody for that. Screw that. So I don't know.

Everett there. And then they had a countywide general election in 1894 to figure out to relocate the county seat to Everett. And then there was a shitload of controversy. And the election was all sorts of illegal voting. Every one of these two, it ends up in either a defraudulent election or gunplay and bloodshed. I like the latter. That's how it always ends.

It's so much more fun. Sometimes it's a fraudulent election that leads to gunplay and bloodshed. That happens too in these county seats. All this for paperwork. So, yeah. After two years of litigation. Two years of suing over this. Two years after a stupid election to find out who gets to hold the paperwork. The county seat was officially relocated to Everett in 1896.

So there's that. Now, Clearview itself is an unincorporated. That's kind of the history of the county of this area. Clearview is an unincorporated community and a census designated place hell yeah which means it's fucking rural yeah there's no kind of center it's not international waters you could just kill hookers while you're gambling on their corpse man it's fucking amazing hell yeah you could be snorting cocaine off a dead hooker's ass while you're fucking gambling and then killing an endangered shark and making shark fins to firing fully automatic weaponry well you could do that on land never mind so

yeah so uh a census designated place if you don't remember everybody is a concentration pop of population defined by the census bureau for statistical purposes only that's it that's all it is it's uh here's a count them here's an area let's kind of fucking put a border around it and see how many people are in there just so it's not like in that forest there's this many people uh it was established clear view on timberland that once once belonged to a guy named isaac cathcart and uh it was a lot this snohomish logging company i guess was working and pulling all the trees out here. They started platting the town, I guess, in 1913.

There was no roads in the area. They had no roads, so they offered. It's funny. They were trying to get roads there, so they had a bunch of the Snohomish Fruit Growers Association wanted a shorter route to Seattle. So they ended up somehow making it so they could get a road. That's how they basically crammed a road through. It was like, well, we need it for the fruit people.

So, you know, we got to have a road. So now it's Highway 9. Oh. Yeah, that's the big path. They built a big one. That's what the road ended up being later on. But that's what it came from. It was from fruit growers in this county so uh yeah they had a lot of real estate and they had

cannery and a cafe once this road opened you know shit started happening a lot of cafe combination gas station type deals you know one of those like roadside places they're trying to get people to pull off the road yeah basically going to seattle We'll take a break and get something to eat first. Grab a pie. Cheaper here. We got lots of fruit. Yeah, tons of fruit. Shit, this is a pie town.

Tell you that now, goddammit. It's weird, too. They had all these rabbit and pigeon and squab farms to try to show. They were trying to show people that, look look you can have a small plot of land and be like you know have like animals and shit on it so they would have like it was weird they were like a game encouraging trapped them yeah encouraging people to have the game here uh it was it was weird they had resident experts in poultry farming you could like ask to they were trying to draw people here uh also they would give them free berry vines and fruit trees and plants.

And the land was donated for a church and a community hall. They were just trying to get people here. Giving shit away. Just doesn't matter. Here, have this. Have that. You need a church? No problem.

Free land. Put it up. We'll help you build it. Fuck it. Whatever gets people here. We got vermin farms. What do you want from us? God damn it.

So, yeah, the settlement at first was called west cathcart and then uh cathcart heights later on in 1930 there was 624 residents there for that uh they uh they switched the name in 1931 on armistice day as a you know holiday thing i guess for world war one uh they in recognition they change it to clear view at that point so that's how that ended up happening because there's views of mountains apparently okay so you get a clear view to the mountain oh got it oh my goodness what a what a nice name for a town yeah what's an armistice an armistice wouldn't uh truce oh it's a ceasefire armistice hey we agreed to stop killing each other i think i just learned that it's embarrassing as i was gonna say probably about 25 years late it's like seventh grade history but yeah that's fine so it sounds vicious though it's a high armistice and good man

fucking thing fell right off if you armistice a guy it falls right off it looks good it's really good that's that's a good word for that like a violent act yeah it's like it doesn't sound like you like you y'all agree on anything sounds like we still disagree sir there's a the hunter thompson hell's angels book he talks about he goes this big hell's angels like weekend getaway like the big a big run and uh boy that sounds smelly it's oh boy he described it as such yeah so uh he's talking about uh the police took him from one campsite to another and he just said oh they shunted you off to there so he said this one hell's angel heard the word and just went around the whole

campsite just using the word shunt as like the way smurfs you'd smurf just to see what reaction like hey man you got can i borrow some shunt till morning like i need some and like what would you do if i shunted you right now and they're like huh nobody knew what it meant gladly shunt you for a shunt on shunt day yeah you're like all right it's armistice shunts and smurf you can squeeze them for anything anything so uh when the depression began in the 30s uh a lot of these businesses closed down there was a butcher shop and a gas station and all sorts of stores and cafes and a whole bunch of shit uh closed down uh yeah there was it was they firewood became a thing that was the main business now

that's when shit's out of control that's when bad stuff is happening uh yeah not good we got wood we chopped it up into little pieces and you can burn it is happening uh yeah not good we got wood we chopped it up into little pieces and you can burn it i got dead trees to buy we got nothing else no we no more we're out of pies we're not the fruit is gone we're out we're done armistice out of it oh man we got armistice good right in the butthole on this one so uh yeah i guess the only stable businesses were gas stations because people were driving through. So no matter what, they still needed gas, poor or not. They weren't going to just pull over on the side of the road and stop forever.

So they got gas. If you're out of gas, you either stop and warm yourself by the fire because that's all we've got. Or you get more gas and get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out. Now Snohomish, which is a town also and the county that one's popular uh it's not that big no snohomish is also very small yeah they're right by each other these towns a bunch of little towns i've heard of that one uh yeah and well that's the county too so and this is the town but in the town nearby because they kind of had more of a

town center i guess uh they they bragged that in the 80s they saw quote renewed vigor there along with developments of two 7-elevens and a mcdonald's so shit got crazy and in 1981 richard pryor came to town to film parts of bustin loose oh so that must have been exciting richard pryor remember that movie fucking freebasing his way through northwestern washington that must have been awesome uh also 1983 movie war games uh as the name of the high school is uh i guess they use that it's not the actual high school but they use the name of the high school war games i have a resident review of this place and it's glowing they're all glowing they love this place quote five stars i love the area overall it is pretty safe which is important to me as a single woman it is very it's a very quaint area with many cute

boutiques and specialty stores but there are but there's a lot more to there as well from swimming to at the state-of-the-art pool to wandering through a corn maze it's idyllic the people are amazing they all go out of their way to help someone's day be a little brighter it's truly an amazing community none of that sounds amazing to me that sounds like you can find that fucking anywhere else sounds like i'd be hiding from all of that i don't want any amazing people my ex-wife would love and there's a reason i'm not married this is great isn't this good all that shit sounds exactly yeah that's same thing. Same thing here. Where a sour would be like, oh, God. I mean, thank you.

Thank you. Get in the car. We walk away hand in hand. Talking shit about that place for the next month. Put your seatbelt on. We're leaving. Yeah. But we'd probably stay there just to torment ourselves.

Yeah. We hate watch things. We hate watch Reed Drummondmond that hillbilly cooking woman the pioneer woman don't know her she's the worst the word i'm cooking chicken and it's she's like on a fucking on a ranch and they bury the dead cowboys in the yard it's the weirdest fucking thing in the world it's they buried the mother the guys her fucking husband's mother in the yard what next to dead cowboys who used to work there while she made blts for the crew it was fucking weird is that legal i don't know it's texas i assume so as long as you shot her yourself it's legal i feel like that's a legal texas

burial so but that's oh my god that's what we're that's what we do because we're like we hate this woman so let's watch this hold on you watched it did they show the burial no no no no they were just putting up a fence around the cemetery around the grave they just buried her in oh my god there's a fresh one and then they were like they're like right next to cowboy dan she worked here in the 80s and blah blah blah we're like how many cowboys what is this place the cowboy fucking pet cemetery this is creepy as shit. This is unbelievable. Population of this town. I can't believe that's on fucking TV. It's on the Food Network.

It's the worst show ever. What? It's so bad, dude. It's so bad. It's like something that boring people would watch before church. It's terrible. It's fucking awful. To gear themselves up.

Population here, 3,907 people have found their way here yeah i'd rather watch that trust me butter swilling woman say the n-word than this shit i could talk about this lady for fucking three hours you have no idea like just fucking rant about her against that we'll watch on hulu we're like let's watch that fucking asshole let's watch that bitch sarah she will say that let's watch this fucking twat sarah will say we'll sit there i hate her look at her and we're cooking chicken this bitch has a tv show god damn it so uh she's like trying to be like a mix between hillbilly kardashian slash martha stewart is what she's going for i feel like so she got the gig because what's

her fuss got kicked off tv for saying the N-word. That's probably what happened. Probably, kind of. Is she the replacement for her? She's more just like, welcome to my frontier. It's like, no. She's got a dead face like that, too. Yeah, and dead little hands that dangle. They're not little, they're huge man hands, but they dangle in front of her while she does everything.

It's the weirdest, I can't stand her. Anyway, okay. So it's up 14 since 1990 this town jesus i'm watching this shit yeah i gotta see this you're gonna hate her so much so much her viewership's gonna explode it's gonna be like what happened i got an extra fucking quarter million viewers what happened here it's double my ratings this is crazy uh median age in this town 41.2 about 37 is normal uh male population much higher than female here though which is weird it's that's it's flipped completely it's almost 54 percent male a lot of 45 to 64 year olds and a lot of 5 to 14 year olds

so i feel like these are people with uh money who've had kids they wait until they had a bunch of money to have some kids and move to this area or they got to fuck out of seattle because it's so much money i think maybe that's what it is so this is like the suburbs kind of it's a half hour away you can commute from there traffic is fucking brutal too uh married population and this will prove what i'm thinking here it's 62 married so this is family time with kids uh normally it's about 50 50 single with no children four percent so party town yeah not not too much that's way below average here race of this place white it's pretty white 85 white uh black 0.00 percent but you have no black people out of 4 000 are you kidding please if you're a black person that lives in Clearview, Washington,

let us know you exist, because the census is not aware of you. And I don't know what happened, but this is not right. There has to be a... There has to be one fucking black guy in this town. There has to be. That's amazing. Are you kidding me? That seems really terrible.

No, no. Sir Mix-a-Lot's got to have a summer home or something somebody's case from yeah somebody's that's the only seattle rapper i can think of uh 5.66 percent asian which is over the normal so that's that's something uh it's about eight percent hispanic so it's just it's just white yeah it's just white uh religious it's low it's usually 50 50 here 31 percent religious yeah so this is my kind of place like seattle yeah it's about 11 catholic uh here so uh you know 7.6 other christians there's no no real you know faith that dominates everything no little. Judaism is not making a strong showing here.

But 0.5% Islam. So there's some different people here. It's outside the city, so it's a little more conservative than Seattle is, but it's still a little more liberal. 52% voted Democrat in the last presidential election. 36% Republican. How about this? little more uh liberal 52 voted democrat in the last presidential election 36 republican how about almost 12 voted independent which is fucking off the charts independent so i don't know if they're like uh like more like uh like uh like liberal jill stein voters in the last election or if they were like some sort of like crazy militia forest people who voted for i don't

even fucking know yeah who voted for ted nugent i'm not sure which that is but whatever so unemployment rate here is 3.8 so that's right under the national average he had to get some votes right i'm sure you know you know you know he did somebody took that he probably won idaho i would imagine they just they were like we can't tell the public took that he probably won idaho i would imagine they just they were like we can't tell the public that ted nugent won idaho right he's not even running this is weird uh median household income here around the rest of the country it's 57 000 here 94 258 times so a pretty healthy median household income in this area and a lot of the jobs there's uh construction jobs manufacturing jobs so there's construction jobs, manufacturing jobs.

So there's blue-collar jobs. There's also some white-collar jobs here, like professional scientific-type things, a bunch of that. So there's a good mix of jobs, it seems like, here. Also, I checked out the education stats because people have asked for those back. People love those. They like that. They spend about $2,000 more per student here than they do in the rest of the country, which isn't bad.

22 students to a teacher. The rest of the average in the country is 16.8 students per teacher. 22.7. When I was in high school in New York, it was like 38 to 1. There was kids sitting on the heaters on the side by the windows. I think the average was like 32. Yeah, it was. Yeah, this is, they've tried to. It the average was like 32 when it was growing up.

Yeah, this is, they've tried to. That was a lot. Yeah, it was too many. 32, it really. I blame my lack of good education on that. Not on my non-desire to learn. Just that. Mine was just really an inability to absorb the information.

Like, I'd sit there and listen. Yeah. And then at the end of the day. And then you go, what's an armistice? Yeah, exactly. Fuck. Shit. Can we start over? Did you tell me that? You did tell me there and listen. Yeah. And then at the end of the day, like... And then you go, what's an armistice? Yeah, exactly. Fuck. Shit. Can we start over? Did you tell me that?

You did tell me that. Shit. Okay. Cost of living here. Cost of living. 100 being average regular par. Here it's 185.3. Holy shit.

High. And, like, healthcare is actually low. The utilities are low here actually there are 70 but housing is 380 median home cost here in the rest of the country it's 216 216 000 here 712 200 median that's median home cost holy fuck holy shit it is expensive uh most more than half the houses are between half a million and a million dollars so it's a it's a lot and if we've convinced you well if you've made a good enough living to move to clearview washington we have for you the clearview washington real estate report All right.

Your average two-bedroom rental here is going to be $1,921. So pricey, but actually less in terms of scale than it is the mortgage. Now, the cheapest thing I could find, I found a condo. One bedroom, one bath, 800 square feet. Not really updated, bare bones for this area anyway, $220,000 for this little slice of heaven. I found a three bedroom, three bath, 1,850 square foot kind of standard family, two, three kids kind of house, $675,000. Then I found, if you want to spread out a little more five bedroom

three bath 3044 square feet a bigger house a little more comfortable 789 950 dollars i can't i can't that's obscene i'm just i'm none of that real estate is it fucking matters to me that you know i'm not going there i can't even look at at it. No, I'd look at that and go, wow, so is there like apartments there they have? Is there like a one bedroom somewhere? $1,900, never mind. Makes you long for Gun Barrel, Texas. It was like 12 grand. Yeah, for like per acre, I think, or anywhere.

This shit is nuts. Things to do here. The Easter Parade is their big thing here. The Snow Homish Easter parade. It's April 20th. It's going on here. And the Chamber of Commerce proudly presents the Easter parade. They have the Easter bonnet contest.

Everybody, get your bonnets on. This is exciting shit. Followed by a parade. Or immediately following the parade. Wrap that up. We got to judge bonnets. Let go fuck yeah 420 they've got they've got weed legal and they're doing this and they're doing bonnets no pre-registration needed you can just show up with a bonnet jimmy it's it's bedlam over here it's going to be crazy like woodstock it's going to be awesome

it says where your most creative easter bonnet with quote and they put it in quotes for some reason all the frills upon it oh where are your most creative easter bonnet with quote, and they put it in quotes for some reason, all the frills upon it. Oh, where are your most creative Easter bonnet with all the frills upon it? Oh, got it. Whoa. And come join the fun exclamation point. Absolutely. Fuck you.

Again, no pre-registration is required. They're really driving that home. No age restrictions and pets wearing bonnets are also welcome. All right. If your pet won't keep one on their head, get the fuck out of here. It's not welcome in our parade. Sorry. Blow a bong hit in their face that's it they don't care after that it's all fine parents can ride with children or can uh or can meet the float at the parade finish so there you go crime in this town what we're interested in the important stuff here property

crime is right at average right at normal uh violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault uh the mount rushmore of crime is less than half the national average it's like 40 percent the national average so it's you make houses that expensive you price the riffraff right the fuck out of you i was gonna say yeah people are a little less well they're less likely to kill each other because there's like a nice life here i don't want to or got to wake up early tomorrow so I can pay for this fucking life. Or they're just sleeping. Yeah. They're not like shit faced at two in the morning wanting to stab each other.

Some people that we've a lot of people we've covered on that. And speaking of people we've covered and are going to cover, let's talk about a murder. Okay. Let's do this. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx,

and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more

sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Let's go back in time here a little bit here. Let's go back to 1974. We'll start. We'll kind of go back from there a little bit. But we're going to start in 1974 with a guy named Charles Rodman Campbell.

Yes. So Charles Campbell. He doesn't use the Rodman. It's an odd middle name. It's a solid middle name, though. It's interesting. Charles Dennis Rodman Campbell. Yes. So Charles Campbell. He doesn't use the Rodman. It's an odd middle name. It's a solid middle name though. It's interesting. Charles Dennis Rodman Campbell. That would be amazing if that was his name. Because he was born in the 50s so no one would have even

known yet. Beat him. His parents are pressy and a shit. Clairvoyant. Clairvoyant. He's born in 1954. October 21st, 1954 to be exact. He's born in 1954, October 21st, 1954 to be exact. He's born in Hawaii there, but at a very young age, he moved to Washington and grew up in the Edmonds area and basically was a complete disaster from jump. I mean, as soon as he could get out of the crib, he was being taken home by the police.

Really? They're like, ma ma'am we had to take your son home he was up to some shit and uh his diaper's full he's up to some shit and his diaper's full so you're gonna want to get on that and it's not this it's in his pants also so sorry and he came home like you know admins is fucking beautiful by the way they found him from a trail of cheerios from the crime and teddy Grahams and shit. They're like, this has to be the culprit. Oh, that area is gorgeous up there. It's unbelievable.

Washington is beautiful. It really is. It is absolutely beautiful. And this particular Edmonds is so expensive. It's like retirement living. Everything is expensive up there. It's gorgeous. So they're like, it's so beautiful.

If you want to have a view of the mountain and look at the water and all that shit, it's going to cost you. It's just kind of what it is here. to have a view of the mountain and look at the water and all that shit it's going to cost you it's just kind of what it is here uh his father was a an ex-marine was a marine at one point who uh who was a truck driver worked as a truck driver it's kind of a hard dude uh you know marine truck driver in the 50s and 40s that's a kind of a tough kind of a rugged dude here and his mother worked at seer at sears oh yeah uh yeah Sears as a clerk. Yeah.

So her mother works for a basically defunct company there. But at the time, you worked for Sears as a clerk. That's a good job, boy. For her retirement, she got somebody else's watch. That's it, yeah. But they took off their corpse at a funeral. So they left it at a train station. That's how that shit started remember oh yeah they started selling the fucking lost and found lost and found that's how sears started

unbelievable go back and listen to i don't remember what episode so all the crime and sports it might have been in washington i'm not sure no no it was in illinois maybe it was in el dorado was that that may have been a little episode something to do with that i don't remember something with the trains. Something with trains. So, yeah, he has a lot of problems, though. He apparently was in his grandmother's, under his grandmother's care a lot when he was young because his father was a severe alcoholic. So, Marine truck driving alcoholic.

So, if you're a 1954 and you're an ex Marine, you were in combat at some point World War Two or Korea or something. You did some shit and then you're coming home and being a truck driver and back then, you know, how much undiagnosed PTSD and all sorts of mental problems did guys have

come and seen some horrible shit and they were just like, you know, and I mean, I'm a bitch and they fucking that's what they do though that's exactly what it was what happened there you can't work the factory why i mean cheer up what do you see what are you weak it was like you know marines never stop being marines that's what i mean that's like a thing in their head yeah once a marine always a marine so he's apparently covering up his feelings with alcohol here and uh his parents fought constantly because his father was an alcoholic and his mother would get mad at him for it obviously and uh so yeah he'd end up at his grandmother's house uh his he he charles liked

his father as a kid though that's the weird part his father was the alcoholic aggressor but he he didn't like his mother but liked liked his father. How about that? Which is weird. Yeah, he kind of sided with... Wanted to be a man. That or kind of sided with the captor type of thing. I don't know. You know what I mean?

Like a Stockholm. He seems tougher. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, if I take his side, maybe he'll beat the shit out of me less. Right. In the 50s, too. I mean, that's maybe what the kid thought. Like, hey.

Possible. I'm telling you, Pops. You got a point here. Just just telling you got a point maybe i don't get backhanded tonight you know that point is dad mom's punch hurts yes mom you hit like shit so i'm gonna go ahead and uh side with dad on this one now uh uh when he talked to a psychiatrist later on, he says that the psychiatrist said, quote, Mr. Campbell's recollection of his mother was that she was, quote, a fool who had little perception of what was going on. He saw her as someone who punished him unnecessarily and did not understand him. He recalled an incident where she secluded him in a room for three weeks because he was playing with matches. He said that quote she

could never understand that i wanted to be that i wanted to be myself and do what i wanted yeah that's not that's what parents your job is to not understand every kid wants to be she just didn't understand i just didn't want to listen to everything well yeah no shit that's zip shit uh you're in a place that has pine needles fucking everywhere yeah put the matches away you can't do that but i you that's the most that's the he said this as an adult he said it like you know as an adult you'd think like i thought that as a kid isn't that ridiculous obviously he was like can you believe this fucking lady just all i wanted to do was be myself and do whatever the fuck i wanted when i was seven and she's like you can't do that fucking bitch man he needs to talk to somebody that really had it rough because he really that's his extent of abuse that's sitting in a room for a few weeks yeah i mean that's not i don't think that's uh you know

approved no i don't think cps would exactly be like good job you're handling that child well but at the same time she didn't you know they're not going to take him away hit him in the head with a fucking iron either so it's one of those not in the 50s they would have been like well you know sometimes you've got to put a kid in a room for a while sit still a bit that's all right you fed him right all right you're fine so he ended up spending two years at the green hill reformatory for boys uh for theft and other crimes okay so he starts at a young age being in the system and he is just, the crimes are just, it's everything.

It's so much. It's every day. He's just a criminal. It's just, he's an arch criminal. That's the best way to put it here. Everything in his adult life, you can imagine for everything from drugs to violence,

to theft, to burglaries and whatever he is doing. If he sees a crime to commit, he's like, I got to do that. He just wants to be himself and do what he wants. Why can't everybody understand this? I don't understand what fucking, from my mother to the police to this goddamn pain in the ass judge, nobody gets me. I don't understand it. Well, we get you fine, sir.

You need discipline. Only my dad got me quote got me who was an alcoholic who probably didn't pay attention didn't care so uh yeah who understands something about discipline being in the fucking military yeah the boy should have had i don't know i would say he's probably just this guy was a an alcoholic truck driver though so he's on the road and then when he's home he shit face so i don't think he's going to be the best source of uh i'm sure his discipline was was less than not just not just uh inconsistent but also unsatisfactory in terms of like he wouldn't discipline him and then he'd do the shit again and the discipline isn't there again you know absolutely yeah it would chop up enough to where he just doesn't get what's right and wrong

you know that has to be happening here uh he says he's a heavy drug user campbell here from an early age an early age he's a i mean heavy too he said he he says that he started using methamphetamine at 12 which you know maybe 12 is known as your meth years honestly if you're going to do a bunch of meth you get it out of the way in junior high is what they say you want to get it get out of your system early by like the seventh eighth then by eighth grade you start to get tired of it and then by high school you're you're clean and free and clear those coming of age movies the goonies stand by me all that shit they all have that scene totally mikey where's your meth at bro and he's like oh hold on you know i gotta grab out sound in the cave okay that's what

they were going down there for in the deleted scenes of the sandlot when they threw up on the on the roller coasters that was was all meth, not tobacco. Yeah, well, the ball, they wanted to get over there because they heard James Earl Jones had a little meth factory going on. They were trying to steal it for their own use. He also admits, Campbell, he says that he started using heroin at 13. Oh, Jesus. So meth at 12, heroin at 13. That's nice.

What the fuck? He's well-rounded going into high school uppers downers how do you get there that's pretty wild i can't get from a to b from riding your bike to doing meth can you from and then heroin yeah yeah but yeah it's it's that's insane you graduate from the bicycle to the skateboard not from meth to heroin this is a bicycle to like a nasa rocket like this a bicycle to a jigsaw this is nuts and then also then from there to another worse rocket it's crazy he also used uh lsd more than 200 times he says uh which is a lot yeah i don't know if anybody knows anybody who did a lot of acid back in the day and shit like that,

but people who did that much acid, too much acid, you can tell. Acid takes its toll on you. You know what I'm saying? Acid changes your fucking, it just changes your shit. To change it 200 times, phew. It's a chemical, and that changes your chemical balance. Your pH is way the fuck off. Every time you do it, it's like boggle, or what's that when you press the thing and then the fucking dice that's what

you're doing you're boggle every time and you're like i hope it comes out try to spell a word yeah it's fucking weird so uh later on though he does show that there are no signs of brain damage that he has or no organic damage so uh he has a kind of a weird view of reality yeah he's kind of just uh like we said she just doesn't understand yeah just wanted to be myself yeah do what i want yeah it's seven who who doesn't let their fucking seventh grader to a 12 year old use meth right i just wanted to do it the hell's her problem so they needed an armistice that's what they needed every time everyone needs an armistice jimmy the way he put it as an adult to uh to a psychiatrist is quote this is this is amazing uh quote the world has created me and i am free to do what i

want there is no right or wrong or anyone to tell me what to do. No. Wow. I don't know where to start with that. The world didn't create you. Your drunken father and your fucking whatever mother created you. And you're not free to do what you want. Absolutely not. As we'll find out plenty of times when he's imprisoned. Right. There are lots of rules and laws that tell you no.

There is no right or wrong, Jimmy. And it's funny, too, because it's like for a second you go, Oh, is he getting like philosophical? You know, it's all areas. He's trying to do some deep philosophical you know it's all areas he's trying to do some deep nope he's just saying i won't do what i want right ain't no right or wrong for me it's just what i feel like did you see it or did you just read this stuff because seeing it i love no no no this is it's this is a psychologist psychologist interviewed him in 1972 or something no video god damn it this is just i love when there's videos i'm because no a psychological report richard ramirez's videos you're like yeah how did anybody ever believe this fuck he's just a bad actor and everything he says we are all evil are we not

it's it's ridiculous well i mean they believe manson too who was also just kind of a cheesy little actor as well so yeah it's it's it's crazy so it all starts out uh october 29th 1970 16 years old just turned 16 uh his dad his own father brings him to the edmunds police for stealing the family car oh jesus so he's a cut up and he's fucking up and he's doing all this shit and then uh so his father finally says you know what guess what pal what, pal? You stole the car. I'm taking track. Let's try to teach him a lesson. I don't even know what. Tough love. Yeah.

Officers here question him in connection with another burglary in the area as well. And later, this is awesome, too, in this whole thing. Later that day, he makes a telephone call from the police station, and he's overheard telling someone to shoot his father. So he's 16 years old. Ty to shoot his father so he's 16 years old tyrant a gunman he's 16 years old he's taken to the police station for stealing the family car they're interviewing him and he goes can i make a phone call and they're like yeah no problem he's like you want to kill my dad from the police station he didn't let it stew he didn't

let it settle they just don't understand he He just wants to be himself, Jimmy. Do they know who he called? Just be myself? No, I don't think they know who he called. I'd like to know. I think whoever it was was like, no. Where are you calling from? Prank caller, prank caller.

No. I'm 16, bro. I don't know what. Shoot your dad. What the fuck? So July 3rd, 1971, his mother, Betty, reports him as a runaway at this point he's still only 16 uh the police said quote mrs campbell states uh that she has given up hope for him except for trying to get him to court she would not bother reporting him gone and would just as

soon uh that just as soon have it that he never came back home okay that's what she told the cops don't bring him back he said i don't she said i'm only i'm not calling because i give a shit that he's gone i'm only calling because he's supposed to be at court and i don't want anybody bothering me about it literally if it wasn't for that i wouldn't even fucking report him she literally said she she would not bother reporting him gone as if it wasn't for court okay she'd just be happy if he never came back which is wow that's uh she was hoping for him to give him the death penalty yeah yeah now i know it just stealing the station wagon and it's our own families and we got it back and all but do you think he could put a needle in his arm

could you lynch him is that possible are there public hanging still we could we do firing squad i feel like that'd be a good thing for him you'd feel like a man you know stand him up put a cigarette in his mouth it'd be good listen i sat him still for three weeks when he was seven that shit didn't work so y'all just gonna sit him still i don't know maybe run him around try make him run laps maybe around the jail possibly tire him out you know what i mean i think maybe that's the whole problem is the kid just got too much energy and i didn't ever tired him out i put him in a room i should have said you know what run around the house four to seven times. That's amazing. So, yeah, she doesn't give a shit.

The 4th of July, that was July 3rd. Now, the 4th of July, the next day, 1971, Charles burglarizes his grandparents' home. Oh, boy. Which is, that's about as shitty as you can get. It's about as sleazy as you can get, stealing from your grandparents. I'm sorry, that's low.

He stole several guns uh he wanted to sell the guns to make money to take a trip to california to get out of the area he's 16 this kid he's how do you how are you that fed up he just wants to be himself jimmy i don't understand what the problem is here why can't people he just wants to do what he wants to do and be himself the world created him it's not his fault he's wants to do what he wants to do and be himself. The world created him. It's not his fault. He's free to do what he wants. Yeah. There's no right or wrong. What the fuck doesn't everybody understand?

He's got a good point. There's no right or wrong. His execution of his statement is all wrong. That's all. You just get a job and make money and go do whatever the fuck. I did it. You know what I mean? You did it.

Yeah, we're all doing it. You're doing it. Everybody's doing it. He could have just like, that's like a good attitude for like a rock star yeah you know what i mean who like makes music and does other shit though they're not just out stealing shit and causing havoc you know what i mean he's like motley crew without the music look you didn't put out any albums sir you can't act like that i'm sorry so uh he's arrested for this though trying to sell the guns uh uh police see needle tracks on his arm yeah at 16 so he ran away and went and was shooting fucking dope uh all around here so he's basically doing having a drugstore cowboy existence oh yeah he's addicted obviously yeah i'll be shooting him he's fucking shooting it he told

the cops that he had quote shot everything except for Kool-Aid and peanut butter. Well, let's try that then. So he's put everything in his arm except for Kool-Aid and peanut butter, which I feel like Kool-Aid might give you a nice burst. I'm just saying. You could probably cook up some Kool-Aid. As long as there's enough sugar in it. A little water. You could cook up the Kool-Aid probably.

Peanut butter would be very hard to inject into your bloodstream. That might slow down the bloodstream. I don't. To get it through the needle, the chunky like i get the chunky so you're gonna get a peanut stuck in there it's never gonna work you're gonna break a needle you're gonna you're gonna fuck it all up otherwise it's gonna gunk it up it's gonna be a problem and that would be hot as fuck oh yeah you warm up peanut butter that shit never cools off no no to get it liquid enough to go through you gotta forget about it boiling and then it's gotta no it's no not gonna work everything except kool-aid and peanut butter everything that's a good name for the show everything but kool-aid and peanut

butter actually just being myself so july of 1971 he sent to green hill reformatory for boys uh on auto theft not the one of his fathers, a different auto theft. Okay, he's done it again. He did it again. He's placed on probation for second-degree burglary. So now he's on probation. August of 1973, he marries,

a girl marries him, which is he's 19 years old. He gets married. So that's August of 73. October 14th, 73, Charles beats the shit out of his wife and threatens to kill her dog, mother and sister.

So he just went down the list. What does she care about? Everything you love will die. She lacks her mom. Yeah. Talks to her sister all the time. She's always petting that fucking dog. That's it.

One, two, three. Like that. That's wow. I'll kill everything you love. Dog, mother, not or and sister. The wife, though, at this point, refuses to file a complaint with the police.

And you wonder why. And then you figure it out. It's because she's pregnant and she doesn't want to have him in jail while she's pregnant. You know, for whatever reason, I don't know if it's financial or what the deal is. I can't take care of my mom, this dog and a kid and a kid and your sister. It's going to be a lot. That's an extra person to threaten to kill. Now that's all it is for him.

Uh, so it's a, it's a daughter too. You want to give this guy a girl because this will be another woman's to fuck up here. So he can, you know, not a good, not a good,

like not a good representation of the male species for a young woman to come up and see is what I'm getting at here. Not the guy you want her to see first. I'll bet that dog's a female, too. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. By the way, 1973, one little thing. He was convicted of defrauding an innkeeper. I guess running out on a hotel bill.

Oh, okay. A $25 fine, which probably less than the room cost. Probably. So, hey, score. You win. Good for you. I'm just doing on a hotel bill. Oh, okay. A $25 fine, which is probably less than the room cost. Probably. So, hey, score. You win. Good for you. I'm just doing what I'm doing. So, June 28, 1974, Campbell is mad at his baby for crying.

You know how babies do. No. You know how three-month-old babies tend to cry sometimes, you know how three month old babies tend to cry sometimes you know because they're babies yeah uh he gets super pissed and twice throws a butcher's knife at the baby throws a giant butch doesn't hit the baby oh jesus but twice during the same day got mad and threw a giant butcher knife at at his child at his infant mind you yeah for crying because you know they know better at that age oh boy what are you three months old? Change your fucking diaper if it's dirty. What the fuck, man?

August 22nd, 1974. Thank shit his ex-wife divorces him. Thank God. And gets full custody of their daughter. Thank Christ. So that's crisis averted there, thankfully. But this guy is a, I mean, he's a fucking guy is a fucking loose cannon, obviously. He's a complete disaster.

He's a menace to society already, and he's 20 years old. Butcher knife flinger. Butcher knife flinger at an infant. He's a crazy bastard. Just wants to do what he wants, man. Hey, I'm just being me. Truly. You know what I'm saying?

I've thrown a knife before in anger. At a child? Not at anybody. No. I threw it away a child? Not at anybody. No. I threw it away from everybody. Not at an infant. No, no, no, no, no.

But everybody's in the room. Yeah, it's different. Could have slipped. You got to stop nagging. I'm telling you. Quit your bitching. Threw it at a goddamn wall. Yeah, that's healthier than at a baby.

So August 22nd, 74, that was the divorce. divorce now december 11th 1974 uh a few months later obviously this is in clearview nearby where he is clearview uh let's talk about somebody else let's talk about this woman named renee uh renee wickland she's 22 years old at the time uh she's happily married at the time uh she's got a baby very small infant three four months old infant there little girl and uh they live kind of it's a rural area and they live it's kind of they're living a nice little life she's you know it's nice she's married the kid they're all very happy everything's going well uh one day it's a beautiful day outside in december probably chilly i would assume but nice outside she's outside washing windows and uh she's got her infant daughters there on the lawn she's got her hands are so cold

oh she's freezing yeah she's got her daughter on the lawn with some toys and shit whatever laying there just back i'm sure it's laying on her back at three four months old yeah not doing anything yeah she can't go anywhere three four months old so you just plop her there there you go fucker stay there there yeah stay there asshole make sure no forest animals come up and gnaw on her soft spot every once in a while then you're good you just leave them there i know this is a stupid thing to say to you but stay still dickhead stay still and you would do it too hey don't go anywhere and then you just giggle as you walk away i see you i see you you're fucked right now you're stuck stuck. So all of a sudden, out of nowhere, she stops and she sees just a tall man running toward her, coming through her yard.

So it's weird. Normally, if you see somebody running toward you, you have one of two reactions. Either they need help or you need help. One of the two. Somebody needs help and you you yeah and you establish that by looking at them and deciding by numerous factors and you get that feeling of they're coming after me or they're coming away from something and they need my help right uh she senses danger she senses he's not the one in danger he's she senses she

is in danger so she grabs the baby and runs inside the house good girl to get away from her away from him but he gets there before she can get the door closed and pushes the door open he's a big guy uh it's six four two hundred something pounds big guy uh so he pushes the door in and this woman has to be petrified she's 22 years old alone in the house with her infant daughter right and there's a giant guy pushing her way into the house terrifying yeah for anybody uh so he grabs the daughter out of her hands oh no there's a baby named shanna is the little girl grabs shanna out of renee's hands which is frightening and holds a knife to her throat holds a knife to an infant's throat uh right away the i can't even the psychology behind that is fucking mind-boggling i don't even know where

you begin you don't you know what do you scream she screams my baby to think of to just think of an infant that way to not even just be like well i mean there's some things that are sacred you know it's an infant you know like if nothing else in the world just infants how about that that's like bottom rung i don't even care if you you fucking drown pup i don't i do care i don't want you to but if you're like drowning puppies and fucking setting kittens on fire yeah infants is that your one thing just leave baby human beings alone never threaten that no and don't fuck with kittens or puppies either but baby and fucking human beings let them go right so uh yeah he holds uh a knife to her infant daughter's throat and tells her quote get your clothes off right now or i'll kill the kid and i mean it i believe him this is what i

yeah i kind of believe this fucking guy uh he demands oral sex from her uh wants her to strip uh and she eventually uh complies with this and uh he does some other, you know, things. Yeah. Not nothing. No actual forceful penetration of certain. Yeah. No, no. South of the border.

Forceful penetration. But there's around the back. Put it that way. So, yeah. Anyway, so around the back alley oops around here. I think we said it worse than if we would have just said he didn't have sex with her. You know, he didn't have any vaginal intercourse with her well actually oral sex is actually sodomy is it really it counts as sodomy jesus absolutely i just learned that

forced oral sex is sodomy okay it absolutely is so uh she eventually uh like i said complies to save her baby's life uh she is he's a distinctive looking guy he's six foot four six foot five over 200 pounds with reddish hair and a big bushy a big bushy hair and a beard at the time so he's very identifiable this guy uh and she ends up calling the police and is taken and shown photo lineups and she picks out charles rodman campbell oh boy big fucking shocker that this guy would escalate to this kind of crazy shit uh so she does that uh they go we know him we're aware of him the cops are like yeah yeah yeah even in that town they're like we know of this fucking guy dealing with him for years we've been told uh they tell her yeah he's been arrested for drugs and trespassing and theft and weapons possession and you name it. Doing what he wants since seven.

Innkeeper fraud. It's really been crazy. He does what he does, damn it. So after this, this is December 11th, she picks him out of a lineup, but they don't end up arresting him right away. I don't know if they can't find him or what the deal is, but he's not arrested for over a year for this thing. What?

Even though she picked him out of a lineup and everything. This is crazy. He is not arrested for over a year for this thing. What? Even though she picked him out of a lineup and everything. This is crazy. Two days later, December 11th, he did this horrible thing. December 13th, he gets a job at a pizza place. Okay. He's like, well, I've done all my raping for the day. I really need a job at the old pizza place.

I need to make a pie now. That's what I need. So a place called Pizza Haven. He gets a job at the old pizza place. I need to make a pie now. That's what I need. So a place called Pizza Haven. He gets a job using a false name, you know, in case the cops come looking for him. They're not going to ask for him. Yeah. Yeah. In the 70s, driver's licenses weren't even laminated.

They were just pieces of paper. So weird. You could fucking scribble something out and write something else. But yeah, it looks legit. Sounds right. I'm sure they did that at the DMV. It's fine. So he has his first day on the job is december 13th at the end of his ship uh the end of his shift he leaves with 1700 in cash he robbed that he stole from the fucking place yeah he got a job there so he could rob it at the end of the day okay got a job used a false

name that's a that's a long con he didn't just go in with a gun be like give me all the money in the safe put in eight hours for that shit put a name tag on in a uniform and like learned how the system worked and how to stretch out the dough and how long to put it in the oven and then he stole the fucking money it had to be a name that he that he's used to or like that he's used a lot because he just picks a name out of a hat never gonna answer to it all day they're like norman he just fucking keeps doing what he's doing why is my name oh that's right oh yeah me i'm sorry yeah i'm norman so he's he's got issues we'll say here january 2nd 1976 he's still out he's still on the run uh he is now this is a lot of escalation he is now armed with a sawed-off shotgun which this guy you'd never want to have a sawed-off shotgun, which this guy, you'd never want to have a sawed-off shotgun. He breaks into a home in eastern Washington.

The home's caretaker who saw him, it was an empty home, just had somebody watching it, saw him. This person identifies him at a nearby bar. She sees him, or he sees Campbell later on after the burglary at a nearby bar, and then calls the cops and goes, the guy that fucking robbed my house is sitting here. Come get him. So they come and arrest him. Finally, he's arrested and he's convicted of second degree burglary on that.

Yes. And then he ends up, the day he's sentenced in that case to 15 years in prison. You, sir, may fuck off. He got 15. 15 years for second degree burglary because of his long record. That same day, while he's at court, might as well have another date. He pleads guilty to another burglary that day as well. Now, at this point, they start making the rape case against him for Renee Wicklin.

It's a play on the books. Yeah, she cooperates with the authorities and picks him out. She testifies against him. Also, her friend and neighbor testified against him as well. A woman named Betty Hendrickson, who saw him leaving the house that day. She identified him and also testified in court against him. So, I mean, he had two people that were upstanding people saying he broke into my house and did this. And the person he is, they're like, yeah, that's true.

No one doubted it. So he is convicted again here. Convicted of first degree assault and sodomy. Convicted. He is sent to prison. You, sir, may fuck off 30 years of sentence. Seven and a half year minimum. This is to be served somehow concurrent Seven and a half year minimum.

This is to be served somehow concurrently with his 15 year sentence. That's not right. So he should have 45 years. Instead, he's got minimum seven and a half is what he's looking at here. This is a crime spree already. They could ruin him forever. This guy is a fucking disaster.

They could keep society safe for many, many years. Yeah, this is a guy where you'd look at where you'd think at least the guy where you look at where you think at least the parole board would look at this and go this doesn't look like the best case for recovery of you know he's really rehabilitated let's i would say he's gonna get uh he's one of those guys who's gonna sit through about 10 parole board meetings to they want to see progress in a few years shit like that now uh with renee uh this whole thing like ruined her life i mean obviously the trauma involved in this i can't even imagine uh it's horrible yeah it ruined her

marriage also yeah the stress of the whole thing uh the court that guy's never getting a blow job ever again no no definitely not absolutely not and yeah and he honestly should probably not ask for one either no he should never even hint this is fucking awful yeah uh no no not at all so yeah but just they're just it's it's the stress of the whole thing it's her it's it's a lot for a couple and uh you you hope that a partner would be supportive and stuff like that and we and we think he was though he wasn't like listen you're fucking damaged goods like they stayed friends and like they were still close and like their families were close and just they just had a hard time being together he just needed a blowjob yeah he was like listen honey uh so this leads to their separation now if jack doesn't have some fucking

bad luck this couple is just doomed okay renee obviously random person runs up to her and you can't get any more random than in your yard in a rural area with your baby and have a man just run up to you and do this that's crazy the only thing crazier would be if you were in your apartment like jack was on christmas night uh one christmas uh a man this is fucking crazy a man comes in uh he comes into his home opens the door i guess his door was open to his apartment a man that jack did not recognize a stranger walked in carrying a gift a wrapped gift yeah and wished him a merry christmas and then he uh this guy you know jack didn't know who he was then the guy

hit jack in the head knocked him out tied him to a chair what poured gasoline all over him and threw a fucking lit match on him and burned him a stranger did this what i don't understand uh merry christmas pow poor yeah light uh yeah this is fucking insane wow how did that what a fucking cursed life that guy has cursed life uh did he die and he hasn't had a blowjob in years. Yeah. He's severely burned. Nobody will ever fucking suck his cock ever again. It's over.

It looks like a fucking Tootsie Roll at this point that's been left in a car for three weeks. It's in it? It's fucking burned and it would have like, yeah, like melted spots. It would be no good. So he's actually, when he's found, he's alive. He's severely burned over most of his body he's rushed to the hospital but they they said that the doctors were like he might live long enough to regain consciousness and possibly give a statement as to who did this but that's about it for this guy we don't expect anything like that uh he does live to give a

to give a description of what happened he says all he remembered is a stranger came in yeah didn't know who he was he had a package in his hand he said merry christmas he was like okay and then the guy just hit him all of a sudden and next thing he knows he's fucking on fire unbelievable he has no idea what happened uh so he doesn't die though he lives through this for he lives. Okay. Survives the whole thing. Miraculously. This is a fucking miracle that he survived this burn, especially back then with skin grafts and shit. Nowhere near where they are now with that sort of thing.

So this is a fucking miracle. This guy is a walking miracle. He doesn't die, but he's horribly scarred. The pain is constant and severe. He's forced to wear like a rubber suit yeah it's basically a wetsuit i've seen a friend of mine worked at a glass shop and he burned himself with denatured alcohol his whole legs were fucking somehow it would like it was protected from the heavens his whole crotch didn't get fucking burned everything else around it was burned it's insane

something thought that was super important it was amazing but i mean he was fucked in skin grafts he was in the hospital for six months and you know he came out and he had those things and he couldn't go out in the sun yeah after they were off in sixth grade uh lit the pilot light in his stove and it and it fucking just erupted and his whole head his arms everything and then he had he came in with that shit too his face looked like uh looked like uh sammy sosa today nice to him oh dude he was vicious were the kids nice yeah he was because he was vicious that kid was tough as fuck we had a kid who blew up his garage yeah and then he came back a year later and everybody called him either a the burnt

kid yeah just be like what's up burnt kid kids either that or they'd call him raisinette which one's worse i don't know i don't know either i don't know it's so cold to not even be trying to be clever like what's up burnt kid and you'd be like hey it's a bunch of fucking guido assholes in new york back home hey look it's a fucking burnt kid hey let me ask you a question uh but it so let me ask you this when you jerk off does it smell like bacon's burning somewheres huh hey right vinnie right he's fucking bacon's burning he's fucking burnt the kid's burnt all over his fucking body hey you're fucking you're fucking asshole that's new york that's growing up that's right yeah he was just uh uh his his face looked

like sammy sosa's today that's not good no like there was no there was no pigment at all through it he was a spanish kid who was like tan tan as fuck and then it was no longer tan that's not he was just like pink all the time that is fucking horrible jesus christ he looked like a pig's dick it was terrible jesus christ i felt so bad for him that is fucking but nobody ever said anything mean to him because he was tough no he was just a he was a scrapper oh all right well yeah i've seen him on the internet lately i think he's a uh a comedian now i swear to you i think i googled his name just because i wanted to see what he looked like so his life was better before yeah all right good for him bad decision

constant bad decisions but he wore those things the the like neoprene yeah it's like Yeah. All right. Good for him. Bad decision. Constant bad decisions. But he wore those things, the neoprene sleeves. Yeah, it's like neoprene. Yeah. So this guy, Jack, survives this thing. He's in the hospital for fucking almost four months. Yeah. He gets out of the hospital.

He's still, like I said, wearing the rubber suit. He goes to visit his parents one day. They live in kind of away from him a couple hours. On the way home, he wraps his car around a telephone pole and kills himself. Not on purpose. Gets in a fucking car accident,

wraps his car around a telephone pole, fucking dead. That's some Final Destination shit. That's crazy. How bad of luck can you have? He went through all that recovery and pain and misery for nothing. For nothing. To die immediately.

Something hates him getting blowjobs. Holy fucking shit. Any opportunity to get them. Even pity ones for a burn victim. Something wants him dead. I don't know what to say about that. That's incredible. That's the worst.

So now Renee, she's double freaked out now. That's the worst. So now Renee is, she's double freaked out now. Yeah. She's been bum rushed in her. Now imagine that she's been bum rushed, which is the scariest thing ever in your own home. We always say that anytime anything happens in a home, it's the most scariest because that's your safe place.

This guy burst his way in through this. And then her husband, ex-husband at the time was the father of her daughter. They're still friends with some guy bursts into his house, set us up, sets him on fucking fire. Yeah. Then he kills himself around a telephone pole. She starts to think the world is fucked and doomed.

She trusts nobody. Oh, God. She is going to be, yeah, that kid is not allowed to do shit. Yeah. That's going to be the most overprotective, you know. She trusts less people than Tupac. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Nothing.

So, yeah, she didn't know if she thought maybe the incidents were connected even though he was in prison she's like could it possibly be that you know it was like revenge for putting him in jail that he found somebody to go set my husband on fire maybe i don't fuck you know she was she didn't know and she's just so scared and she doesn't know whether she's being paranoid or not uh she told her friends and her co-workers that she lived and lived and walked co-workers that she lived and lived and walked in terror and that something awful was going to happen again she just knew it that's her life at this point this poor fucking woman man i good lord i don't know how you

wouldn't feel like that no it's no way to live at all no i mean she and she went through the motions of really trying to get her shit together too she's a she's a tough lady and she's got a little girl yeah and she you know little girl without a father now too and she's you know parenting alone and she's really trying to do what she needs to do and get her somehow get her life back on track and uh what she needs to understand is that if that guy doesn't get get her that day and she gets somebody else it's still happening in the world you know what i mean all the stuff that happens i mean happens in the world every day. It just happened to happen to her. And she's going to now know, hyper aware of that shit.

And also, she and Shanna stayed at the same house. Oh, how do you do that? It's a house that they loved. It's a little white house in the woods that they love. That seems like it would be just traumatic to stay there. But they stay there. Renee had to work hard to support them on her own. Obviously, she worked as a beautician and also as an accountant for several beauty parlors.

So she had spots where she'd go do hair and then she'd do their books to just whatever she could do to pick up a few extra bucks to feed her goddamn kids or her kid. Back to that house. And then go back to that house and try not to, you know, think about every time you go in the front door yeah what happened right there's where that shit happened uh yeah she's a really smart lady uh she's tough she's smart and she's i mean to to be able to just go on for after all this and not just shut down and be in a home or something is pretty fucking remarkable anyway yeah but to go on and actually you know work her ass off and support her daughter and do all this shit after all this terrible shit has happened to her and her family is pretty fucking amazing uh her own mother was uh even back in the day because she's born in the

50s too even her own mother back then was uh like to work and she was a worker also so she she was always to the point of you know women should work should work. And, you know, if they want to work, they should work. And she was her mother instilled that in her before that was a thing. I love that before equal rights or anything like that. So it's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast. Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast,

Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened

to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts uh yeah she did all this type of shit. Now, back to Charles Campbell. May 11th, 1976. He begins serving the sentences there.

He's transferred in June of 76 to the Washington State Reformatory in Monroe. June 29th, 1976, which is he just got there. He's found with a gallon of what they called Pruno back then, which is fucking booze. Yeah. Toilet wine. Yeah. You really got to like fucking wine.

Pruno. Pruno. So it's made with prunes. I imagine. I've said this before and I'll say it again. That's the difference between weed and alcohol. If a man said, I made this where I shit and it's liquid and I'd like you to drink it,

you go, fuck yeah. That's different. If someone said, I grew this weed in my asshole in my own shit, you'd go, no thanks. I'll get some later on. That's the difference between weed and alcohol. You like weed. You need alcohol. It's a different thing.

But I'll get some. So some Mexican immigrant jammed up his asshole and smuggled it over the border. But he didn't do that. He didn't pull it straight from a shit pile and hand it to you. So, you know. So, yeah, he also this was you. It was brewed using yeast stolen from the prison kitchen also. So it's a double charge because he was also stealing from the kitchen.

Now, November 1st, 1977, he hits another inmate, knocking him down and causing head injuries that the guy needs to be treated for that are pretty severe. He's a huge fucking guy. He's a big guy. He's a big, scary guy. And not a model inmate. No. And he's known as kind of a bully on the cell block, too. He's one of these guys.

Example, October 1978, his cellmate accuses him of rape. So this guy is the typical guy you should be scared of in prison. He's going around beating people up and raping them and shit. He's a fucking animal, this man. He's a fucking animal. One of the vile human beings this guy is. January 8th, 1979, he gets a psychological review here. This is amazing here.

It's stated by the person person reviewing him the psychologist i think uh that he's a conflict-ridden man i would say yeah quote who has declared war on society all of whom he regards as mindless nitwits who are getting theirs uh getting theirs and are now out to get him the he's further seen as in as insensitive uh uncaring of others consciousness malevolently intolerable of the social order which imprisons him and immense imminently harmful to all who directly or indirectly capture his attention or interest yeah he's a fucking a monster person he's a menace he's the worst yeah he is should be on a constant hannibal lecter card always that's that's what they're saying that's what that says yeah if you

don't put him on that he's he's he's not even lying about it sitting him still ain't working he's gonna say i'm doing what i want what i want ain't fucking good right so guess what it's happening this guy needs the hannibal lecter. And that doctor went to school for all of this psychological shit? Oh, yeah. He sees inmates all the time. The only course that I needed is an advanced English to be able to write that same fucking thing. That's it. Because I already know that that's what this man is.

But this guy sees prisoners all the time. So this isn't like, oh, you know, someone does something illegal and now I think they're a monster. Like, this guy sees monsters every day and he's like, oh, this know, someone does something illegal and now I think they're a monster. Like this guy sees monsters every day. He's like, oh, this guy's especially bad. Piece of shit. August 11th, 1979, another inmate accuses him of rape. Wow. He threatens to kill the man if he tells anyone.

So he raped and threatened to kill him as well. The guy did tell on him. Now, 1981, he's been in for less than six years. And through it has been nothing but problems. Prison wine, rape, violence, fucking horrible psychological write-ups that are just never let this man out, basically, is what they're saying. Campbell, at this point, is eligible for furloughs and is let out of prison. He didn't even do a seven and a half. No.

That was the minimum. The parole board cited his, quote, good behavior as the reason for shortening his minimum sentence, even though he was constantly fighting and involved in drugs and rapes and everything else. They should have just said, we got to keep these guys in here safe. Get them the fuck out of here. Get them out of here. I mean, we're worried about them in here. We're in here with him.

We don't want to be in the same building with this fucking guy. Fellow inmates called him one punch. That was his nickname because he was constantly just knocking people out and sucker punching him if he got mad at them. The parole board later on would say that they saw none of his prison record. They didn't see a psychological write up. They saw none of his infraction records. None of that.

They said it was all, quote, concealed from them. So honestly, this could be the prison trying to get rid of him. Warden wants him to fly. I am this fucking guy. Get him. I don't give a shit what he does out there. My job is in here and I don't care. That's what I honestly think.

I believe you because the parole board would have no reason to lie about that. No, they wouldn't let that guy out early. Not early. They would would have said at least you're gonna do your seven and a half at least christ uh so august 14th 81 he's granted minimum custody status september 1981 he's transferred from a prison uh from from the prison to a prison honor farm so this is you know a farm now you can you can run away if you have to. October 81, he's transferred to Monroe Work Release Facility as a cook. So this is every month, basically. And finally, this is, wow.

So he's in a work release program. So he's out during the day as a cook. December 25, Christmas Day of 81, and January 4 of 82, Campbell's ex-wife said he left the work work release program and came and raped her both days. My God. Both days showed up at her house, showed up at her house and forcefully raped her both days violently. We'll say so. That poor lady now has to find somewhere else to live. Fuck.

Where? Mars. This guy's a face. Even prison isn't enough for this guy. You can't do anything fine get the fuck out of here yeah oh man so february 24th 1982 he is he's doing so well you really gotta up his deal here he's transferred to a work release program in everett washington this is a uh he's hired as a landscaper yeah so it's like a kind of a day release type shit.

And then at night he has to come back in there. Sure. And a landscaper. So in his first 30 days in Everett at this work release program, he commits four infractions. Okay. Four fucking things that he's done wrong. You'd think this... Oh my God.

He shouldn't be out of prison. No. At all. You would think he'd be like, I'm going to be so good so I can get out of this of this and go pillage more right i'll just be cool for a month and then i'm fine this guy can't even do that that's how viking he's a fucking insane viking a viking who's got like serious brain damage and like played in the nfl for 12 years you know and then now is not sure and thinks his wife is there to kill him right so yeah uh first so yeah four four infractions in 30 days so that is fucking horrible april 14th 1982 uh remember poor renee wickland

yeah uh she is sick that day she's sick from work she has uh she thinks it's strep throat type of thing she's got you know some abscess in her throat she's got some problems going on respiratory she's sick that day so she stays home and sick in bed. So at this point, she's working as a school financial aid consultant. She has her own little company where she helps people figure out how to get student loans and stuff like that. Telling it. She's making a life for herself and making a living. So Barbara Hendrickson, remember her?

The neighbor who testified against Campbell. She so the viking leaving that's right she's still there and she's still she's now very close friends with renee uh they especially since the husband died and everything her and her husband who are a little older yeah they check on them and they you know they'll bring them like dinner if she's working a lot that day drama bonding yeah exactly it's what it is and they they they really take to them and they love the little girl, and they really help out the little girl, and they watch the little girl if she needs help and stuff like that. So Barbara that day at 4.20 p.m. goes over to the Wickland residence there, to Renee's house, to take her temperature and her blood pressure, make sure she's okay.

Probably smoke some weed. Probably smoke a little back out the back. And also, she was going to make Shanna some Jell-O. Shanna wanted Jell-O. Renee was too sick to make it. So she said, I'll come over. I'll take care of you. I'll make the kid Jell-O.

Fucking don't worry about it. Got you covered. So around 6.30 p.m. on April 14th, same day, this is about two hours later, Don Hendrickson, who's there in their 50s, the Hendrickson's, he comes over because his wife hadn't come home yet. So he's like, where the hell is, you know, where is she? So he goes over there and, you know, goes in and goes in the house.

And, you know, his wife had gone over there and he opened the door and it's totally quiet, which is a weird thing with an eight year old and his wife. And there should be three people in a small house it's pretty quiet that's weird they could all be eating jello that'll yeah that's true it's a mouthful of jello we'll do that every time uh so he uh he then walks in the house a little bit and the first thing he sees is his wife oh no uh lying in a pool of blood in the hallway with her throat slit and we'll talk about how her throat was slit too it wasn't a wasn't it wasn't an easy one uh so he continues into the house because he wants to see if anybody's hurt or anything like that uh he ends up finding renee uh and shanna both in the bedroom and both uh both

dead with their throats slit okay both of them uh so all three of these people have been had their throats slit they're all they're all dead and this guy arrives to see this which what the fuck that's insane uh so you can't get any you know the luck of these people and everything else here uh so what the fuck happened yeah obviously is what we want to know here. Well, Charles Campbell, obviously, here. He's in the area. He comes in and finds Renee ill in bed. Apparently, when she saw him enter the room, she tried to scare him off

by telling him that her daughter was coming home soon from school and that the neighbor was coming over to check on her. So he better get the fuck out of there because there's other people going to be here and you're going to get caught and yeah whatever instead of frightening it and frightening him that's what he wanted yeah he said oh good there'll be more good that's what i'm waiting for yeah uh he said and so at that point he told her well good now instead of killing you i can kill all fucking three perfect all he is that's what he told her responsible for that uh

yeah he said you all fucking sent me to prison and now you're all gonna fucking die oh boy uh so uh it was absolutely fucking horrible what what he did is fucking it's i can't even describe it to you i mean the the most horrible descriptions of it that i read in and really really you know black and white court documents then say at the end it's even it's way more brutal than described like it's killing it's fucking disgusting uh jesus yeah the he was called uh it was called by the prosecutors later on that he quote savagely destroyed them uh this is uh here so here's a quote he slashed her throat to the point where he nearly decapitated her. But before killing her, Campbell had severely beaten, tortured, and sexually mutilated her prior to her death. Good Lord. So this is what he did to Renee.

So he did all this, and he just hung out. He did that? So nobody else is there? No one's there. Wow. So he does all this shit and has a whole lot of time to do it. Takes his time. After that, he left her in the bedroom and bleeding out.

And he waited for the daughter to come home. Oh, boy. Waited for her. She was obviously the one he held a knife to her throat as a baby. You don't remember me, but I remember you. Yep. When she came home, he attacked her in the living room and dragged her back into the bedroom where he forced her to look at her mother's body

of course uh so uh yeah then he uh also slashed her throat yeah uh this uh uh she that he slashed her throat so severely that later on they couldn't get a blood sample from her body because everything was gone all the blood was gone that's how bad holy that's how fucking bad uh afterwards uh he went in the kitchen made a snack oh boy you know killing we gotta have yourself a little murder sandwich like we've talked about before you know you get hungry when you kill a fucking child and a woman obviously makes himself a snack and he just waits hangs out at the kitchen table like this is comfy uh waits because he knows barbara hendrickson's coming over he's pissed at her too yeah so she walks in the door about an hour later and he

jumps all over and does the same thing cuts her throat to the point where uh it's almost severed from her body like like oj yeah like nicole brown basically it's the same thing like barely attached uh the autopsy reveals that uh renee uh also had horrible bruises all over her body she was she was severely just tortured and beaten it was horrible uh uh also he severely mutilated her genitals uh with uh blunt objects and knives and everything else all three of them had been beaten and assaulted prior to their deaths, too. He didn't just do this quickly. He was, you know, brutal about the whole thing.

The right earlobes of Renee and Barbara had been torn, indicating that he ripped, that's where their earrings were. So he ripped earrings out from them. Renee received extensive blunt trauma beating on her head, back and upper chest area. Jaw and nose were broken and she'd been strangled. She had a seven inch incision across her throat, which severed both carotid arteries. She had blood to death from her neck. And then afterwards is when he won't go into detail, but he attacked her down below, too.

Yeah, she had been. Wow. A seven and a half inch cut across her neck that's a long cut uh yeah uh it inflicted and it made her head go back like that uh massive hemorrhage obviously uh the the weapon they say uh for all three of them they didn't recover it but they say it's obviously probably a knife. A quote by the pathologist, a sturdy blade approximately half inch wide with one sharp edge and one dull edge. Minimum of three inches in length, plus a handle or gripping area. Rene Wickland's the other. I'm not going to get into that. He describes what the objects were for the other.

For the right. For the right. For the rape. I'm not going to get into it because it's fucking horrible. Yeah. So anyway, it's been enough already with the heads being chopped off. So don't worry. This guy, you'll like the end of this. Don't worry.

So they determined the whole thing that she'd been murdered first. And then they put the whole thing together like we just talked about here. And Barbara Hendrickson just walked in, had no fucking idea what she was walking into. His name came up quickly as a suspect. Sure. Campbell. He had crossed paths with her, obviously, before court testimony. He's in the area.

Just got out. Just got out of jail. They are going to charge him with three counts of aggravated murder, which is a bad combo of words. You really don't want to have fucking aggravated and murder together. Thrice. Those thrice. And one of them a child.

Yeah. Bad stuff. Not good. They do not charge him with any sexual assaults, though, because they determined that all the sexual assaulting was probably done post-mortem. Oh, that's vile. So he was just playing around.

Oh, Jesus. He wasn't even doing this to inflict pain. It was just what he's into. He's just a sick fucking asshole. Yeah, because they say that the bleeding, from the bleeding, they can tell. Oh, fuck. So it's crazy. So why do they suspect him?

Besides just coincidence, why would they suspect him? Well, let's do a thing here. They check on the whereabouts of him, and they reveal that's in a uh in custody but out on a work release program right so he can come and go at will uh as long as he checked in every night back at the halfway house they don't care basically at about 8 p.m on the on april 14th which is the day of these murders correctional officer uh at the uh halfway house was informed by another resident there that Campbell was drunk. Uh,

she was unable to awaken him and called for assistance. And, they attempted to get a urine sample for alcohol and drugs that night. And he refused and became extremely disruptive and nobody wanted to fight his giant crazy ass. So they backed up cause this isn't a prison. It's a halfway house. Uh,

so, uh, they, they ended up calling the police and trying to get him into custody and suspend his work release status that's how they were trying to do this and uh everett police officers were called in uh the state attempted to find the officers and they could never find these officers for some reason uh so uh one i guess they transported him One officer patted him down for weapons. Uh, and they ended up, uh, they ended up finding a receipt for tires, a pair of earrings, a dollar bill, a guitar pick, cigarettes, and a mace container.

That's what she's gotten her. That's what he's got in his pockets. The earrings were later identified, uh, by a close friend of, of Renee Wickland as belonging to Renee Wicklund as belonging to Renee Wicklund. So he's got her earrings in his pocket, which is also kind of connecting you to the whole thing here. Wow. And he tore them out.

Yeah, he tore them out. Oh, Christ. So they gave these items, put them in an envelope and marked them for everything, for evidence. So yeah, they turned it over later on april 15th uh the uh work release the guy who runs the work release was informed by a correctional officer that uh that uh i guess a raincoat had been left in campbell's car parked on the street so this guy went up to the car to try to get the the raincoat out and for look to look for evidence of alcohol consumption because he's just the work work release supervisor for which he'd been suspended.

So he found the raincoat and took a beer bottle and some cans from the car, too, and was like, ah, we busted him. He also noticed an earring there, which was left behind, and they came to look in the car. They found the earring, the police did, and they got a search warrant and everything like that. They seized a bunch of evidence in his car and room.

Items. This is wild. They gave him, obviously, the police and all the beer and all that sort of thing. His car is impounded, and at trial, they talk about later on

about the connection with the earrings. Now, there's also a woman named Judith Dirks. He met her when she was a nun in prison who he became romantically involved with god and she lost her nun job you're not supposed to be fucking no well especially not them she was a prison drug and alcohol counselor and she lost her job for and lost her spot in the nunnery for uh fucking charles campbell irresistible this guy i mean come on why is he raping when he's got somebody that's willing to do it ridiculous well she'll throw

away her nunnery for it well she says that uh uh she that he visited her on the morning of the 14th and that he had been drinking and that he had drank a six pack of beer while he was at her house and he had already been drinking she also noticed once he left that her butcher knife was missing that day weird and it's the same size as the one that the pathologist said might be used to kill them so really interesting oh one more thing judith is pregnant with his son oh jesus no another another fucking kid into the world another one he that's what he needs a A son now, too. Yeah. Perfect. Wow. Holy shit. Now, another one of his ex-girlfriend here, Debbie Kedrezorowski. Jesus Christ.

I like it. Yeah. She says that Campbell visited her in the early afternoon. This is after he visited Judith. And she says that he wanted to have sex with her and started, started like tugging at her clothes and stuff and was real drunk and she said that she didn't want to but he didn't hurt her she left her alone uh uh yeah this is uh crazy oh also judith the pregnant nun yeah uh here she said that also uh he he constantly talked about resentment toward re Wickland. And once he got out on work release, the first thing he did was drive by her house again. So she tells the police that also.

She should have maybe told that a little earlier. Several witnesses say that they saw a man fitting his description near the Wickland residence on the afternoon of the murders. And later, when shown pictures, identified Campbell as that man. on the afternoon of the murders, and later, when shown pictures, identified Campbell as that man. My word. Two other witnesses described a car matching the description of his car

and testified later that they observed the car parked in an inlet in a wooded area right near the Wickland residence on the day of the murders. None of that was scary until there's three dead bodies. Yeah, now, all this can mean nothing. These are all coincidences.

They had more on Adnan than this. That's a good point. I mean, it's fucking ridiculous. They don't have shit on him. Oh, wait. No, there's more. These are all coincidences. They had more on Adnan than this. You know what I mean? It's fucking ridiculous. They don't have shit on him. Oh, wait. No, there's more. Sorry.

One more thing. Items seized on the day of the murders, in addition to the earrings and everything like that, they also found a birthday present that had been given to Shanna by a friend that identified that, that he stole. It was another earring a glass found in renee's kitchen had a bloody finger and palm print perfect match to him yeah it's right in the blood too so you can see it you don't even have to really dust for you just go hey look at that uh amazing uh finally another work release uh residence directed police to a place in the river where he and campbell had been in the evening of the 14th uh they investigators go in there and they find a bracelet three earrings

two necklaces a piece of pottery and a brass object all of which came from the wickland residence wow so they have a little bit evidence on this one here and uh yeah by the way after this just to let everybody know they never let renee know that he was out of prison what they didn't have to back then this case made it made this case caused a state law to be made that you have to tell the victim of a violent crime when the offenders let out of prison good now they have that law but they didn't have it back then and how she had no idea he was out she figured he's out he got he got 45 years she's looking at

him for a while yeah and then here he is in your fucking bedroom six years later wow oh boy scary as fuck man i can't imagine that this is insane zero notice zero notice she didn't even get to she didn't get noticed that he got no parole no she didn't even get to be scared she didn't even get to go to the parole hearing and go you know what this fucking guy did to me held a fucking knife to my daughter's throat, man. Fuck that. That would have made a difference, I would hope, anyway. I live my life frightened every goddamn day.

Every day. Oh, by the way, my husband was set on fire and then fucking went into a telephone pole. I'm having a bad time. Jesus Christ. My life hasn't been peaches and creams since this guy's been put away. I'm telling you. So he's obviously arrested and they're going to try him for three counts of aggravated murder uh now due to the tons of

publicity generated by this do do do do do do do do uh the trial court orders that the jury be selected at the spokane count courthouse which is 275 miles east of this county courthouse people that might not have heard this shit because locally this is a big deal at the time let's go shock the shit out of somebody else yeah and then they're gonna they're gonna bust these just jury into here yeah spokane they're gonna be like where the fuck are we this place is crazy so uh on october 21st 82 campbell's attorney tells the court that campbell wants to waive his presence at the jury selection and remain in county jail where he is he doesn't feel like going there uh he said

that Campbell Campbell had quote legitimate fears as to the treatment he would receive from officers uh in other prisons like Spokane he thought they were gonna like fucking knock him around if he went somewhere else and that he preferred quote to stay in uh to stay in snohomish county and concentrate on the trial in his future you know all his business plans you know he's got a lot a lot of stuff going on there's a lot of hot ass guys in here yeah he's gonna he's got he's got a lot of raping to do just a slew of rape on deck here on the on the docket so it's kind of a smart strategy not to be in with the jury selection because now once you select that jury and and tell them what the case is about they're picturing like a terrible man

then they get in there and if he looks halfway deep yeah you may you may be able to get off but you got to be able to talk to your lawyer you have to be there it's just it's one of those things the prosecutor immediately objects and says oh no no no he's gonna fucking be there they said that campbell's playing a game it's a tactic it's just a tactic to create an issue on appeal is what they're saying okay which is he's just gonna say that i wasn't allowed to be at my trial uh so the judge addressed campbell personally and campbell said he knew what he was doing he told campbell he has a constitutional right to be present during selection and if he were absent uh he would not be able to help his lawyer select the jury which is why you're there to go out of that one doesn't like me i saw her look at me and

she you know that guy gave me a fucking stink eye get him off of there so uh they said that the judge warned campbell that he might not approve of these jurors and at that point it's it's not their fucking problem he he left it up to his lawyers uh he said that campbell would have little contact with his lawyers while they were in spokane and that campbell repeatedly indicated he understood the repercussions and he stated quote i have a lot of confidence in mr mestel and mr savage those are his lawyers savage yeah he got a lawyer named savage i'd be like come on they're they called them savagely brutal i can't have this guy jesus uh he said a lot of confidence in what they, in Mr. Mestel and Mr. Savage going over there.

They do that for a living. I'm trying to prepare myself for my part in the trial, and I'm trying to relax and get my head together. Relax. What am I, he says, what am I, what I am doing, I feel like going to Spokane will be a real inconvenience. A real inconvenience. It's going to be a long ride.

He literally said, I'm not making this up. It's going to be a long ride. I will be cut off from things over there. I will spend all day in court going through that kind of stuff. My time will be limited, and I will not be able to prepare things I am working on right now. It is my decision to stay here in Snohomish County so that i can accomplish that my time is much better utilized here wow what what what the what the fuck like so they they again reiterate you're going to be cut off from your attorneys it's limited contact they're going to be over there he said i understand what you're saying quote but what what i am

talking about i wouldn't have the opportunity that i need to be preparing myself in a relaxed atmosphere he really needs to chill this guy a lot of that judge you know what i'm up for i'm What I am talking about, I wouldn't have the opportunity that I need to be preparing myself in a relaxed atmosphere. He really needs to chill this guy. A lot of that. Judge, you know what I'm up for? I'm up for triple murder. I really got to have my head in this. I got to really do that.

So they end up saying, OK, fine. Campbell is allowed to do it following a written waiver of his right to be present. written waiver of his right to be present. It says he's being advised of his absolute right to travel there and be present during the selection of the jury to sit in the guilt and penalty phases and the whole fucking deal. He's knowingly and intelligently and voluntarily waiving his right to be present to allow him to remain in Snohomish County to continue preparation to his trial. He further agreed on it. He signed a statement every which way you could make a statement. He made it. He signed it. He said it. It was fucking they filmed it. He signed a statement. Every which way you could make a statement, he made it.

He signed it. He said it. It was fucking. They filmed it. It was all there. He's out of his mind. Out of his fucking mind. So the trial finally starts here on April.

They're talking about April 14th. Obviously, this is 84. The trial is going on. So they talk about that. They talk about Debbie Kedz debbie kedra's kedzie kedzie aroski good old uh good old debbie uh she says that uh they're trying to get her statements thrown out about him trying to sexually assault her earlier in the day uh they're saying uh quote such testimony if believed by the jury could constitute evidence motive, intent, or mental state of the defendant.

Yeah, that's what we're going for. That's what I'd like to know. If he tried to rape a woman and then she didn't want to be into her, tried to get some and she wasn't into it, and then he went and then did this. Yeah, that's, you know, so, yeah. Leads to know what his state of mind is. Sexually frustrated and angry are two things you don't want to be yeah when you're this guy absolutely so instead though they're allowed to do it during the opening statement the prosecutor uh uh basically says that you know tells them

obviously this isn't evidence it's an opening statement uh he says it's to simply outline the case and he says that camp that Campbell attacked the good old Debbie and, quote, attempted to rape her, forced her to the floor, and tried to take her clothes off, but then let her up and whatever. So at trial, she's allowed to testify, good old Debbie. She testified that Campbell made two passes at her

and then asked her if she, quote, wanted to get it on. Yeah. Nice. Won't get it on. She rejected all his advances and testified that campbell quote never hurt me or anything although she was upset and crying it is nice he asked permission he did ask yeah he didn't just fucking cut her throat which is a plus

uh she asked campbell if he wanted uh if he wanted a back rub to feel better uh once he was on the floor uh that's when she he startedging at her clothes, but backed off when she said to back off, basically. He didn't want to meet too. Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, he was like, all right, fine. I'm a good man. I'm all right.

Well, don't put yourself in this position to tug at people. Don't tug at anyone's clothes. Leave them be. You know what? Want to get it on probably isn't the best come on either. Let's just say. So just say that. So. to get it on probably isn't the best come on either let's just say so just say that so uh and then settle with the fucking yeah the shit oh being shot down is the worst it hurts yeah

it's bad stuff man so uh tim fowler who's a boy a neighbor boy testified that he was riding his bike home from school on april 14th and saw a red car parked in the inlet in the woods, like everyone else said to saw a man that was at least six foot two inches with Sandy Brown waving hair nearby, wavy hair nearby. His brother, Mike, also testified he saw the car parked near the woods around 315 to 320. And then their father, Jim, testified that at 340, he saw the same car backed into the woods. So they all saw the car over an hour period in the same exact spot. The type of car is the same description as the one owned by Campbell, obviously.

Another next-door neighbor, 11-year-old girl named Josette, she's a next-door neighbor of the Wicklands, of Renee, testified that at 3.30 she saw a man wiggle around in the bushes by her house and then walk down a gravel road. She testified he was tall, had dark brown curly hair, and was wearing a blue sports jacket with a yellow stripe running across the middle. She identified Campbell in court and in the lineup as that man, and then also that blue jacket was taken from his room the next day. So, a lot of stuff. We got the guy.

There's a lot. Prosecution, they talk, there's a lot of shit about this jacket is that the right jacket that's not the jacket she's talking about the jacket is so the least of anybody's concerns that none of that one witness and their jacket sightings that means nothing in this case but an 11 year old pulling that detail that's pretty impressive seems It seems impressive, yeah. Now, and then at the end, there was a cross-examination where she said the jacket that they had, she wasn't sure if it was the jacket, but it was the jacket. So they're saying, see, she doesn't even, all the other shit, never mind. She doesn't know a jacket.

She's fucking 11. She nailed the colors, done deal. She doesn't recognize a stranger's jacket from a year ago that she saw. She rode her bike by for three seconds. What a shock. Like she was probably looking at his head. So after all this, the defense continually tries to get a mistrial out of all this shit, but never works. Another neighbor boy testified he saw a tall man at around 5 p.m.

walk down the street carrying a bundle over his shoulder like a blanket, like a giant bindle without the stick. This guy also used high-powered binoculars to observe the person because they thought it was weird-looking, and these people, Mr. and Mrs. Chambers from the neighborhood, testified at trial that Campbell was the person they saw through their binoculars as well. from the neighborhood testified at trial that Campbell was the person they saw through their binoculars as well. This Mr. Chambers initially spoke to a detective and described him as a Campbell as a white male in his 40s with a full beard and all this type of shit here. So same description.

You name it, it's there. They wrote a second report and said that they described him as a, quote, transient appearing person which i just think is a funny it's sweet it's very yeah it's a little homely yeah and they said transient appearing person that's that's like that's like nowadays language it's very progressive not even a transient transient appearing person you never know so it's very pc i don't want to i don't want to assume so uh during the uh they describe go on for a long time about they try to argue with this guy saying that he didn't see the campbell and it's a they're picking out these tiny details to try to make a mountain out of a molehill when the point is everybody saw him there and he had a bunch of

their shit and there's a bloody fingerprints on fucking glasses and it's a revenge killing so yeah it's uh the state also they had a bunch of notes that they argued about with the police there during court uh another uh resident of the work release program testified that at 6 p.m on april 14th 1982 the two of them left the facility in campbell's car campbell was carrying a bundle of clothes same one described after buying and sharing a quart of beer they shared a quart of beer what's a cord a court oh yeah jesus 32 basically yeah not even lord they went to the lowell boat launch on the river i was thinking of measurement of wood oh yeah a lot of a big quart of beer so that's a lot of beer man took them both to carry it down there uh so at that point campbell asked this man

to walk back to a paved road 10 to 15 minutes later they were in this area and uh that's when he saw him uh basically dumping shit into the river yeah and that's when they found all this exactly where the guy told him all the shit was in the river uh so slow moving river yeah yeah now through this whole thing the defense is trying to make it out like saying this guy must have killed renee well he knows where all the stuff is he's the one who knew where it was let's get all hair samples and shit from them which is smart as a defense attorney they should do that if it wasn't a mountain of pile of evidence here if there wasn't a handprint in blood yeah that's it doesn't matter i don't care about anything else just that's good enough for me they tried to get this guy to be forced to try on jeans and a shirt that were pulled out of a river

to see if it fit him and shit like that they tried to pull like an oj glove situation and the judge was like we're not doing that that is fucking ridiculous no not doing that here uh totally stupid he did not have to do that at all they said that uh yeah there's no no facts other than what the defense attorney is saying implicating him there's no other evidence that day he was had an alibi this guy's not a suspect like we don't have to make him try on river pants being a good samaritan and then they're just like now put on this shit we pulled out of a river put on these filthy murdery river pants well yeah like no it's gross there's chiggers in there and shit

fucking leeches go behind this partition and put on these river they just give them a little little fucking thing to stand behind that's it jesus christ man so yeah the judge do you object sir because i fucking do this is ridiculous i'm sorry now while the penalty phase while all this is going on charles campbell sat back grinning openly sitting all back like with his hands behind his head and shit like that like acting making a spectacle of himself like he's fucking bored with the whole thing i'm gonna beat this and yeah big grin on his face uh he would yell at his lawyer all the time and be like you fucking idiot what's wrong with you and they'd have to have to tell him to shut up uh at one

point uh the facts of the of the murder were being discussed in great detail, as a pathologist tends to do and autopsy people. And he sat back with a big grin on his face and just shouted out, do we have to go through all this crap again? That's what he said in court. While this guy is describing a three or an eight year old being murdered. He said, do we have to sit through all this? I'm tired of this shit. Let's get a fucking let's wrap it up, asshole. He's like playing the music.

At the worst. Yeah, let's go. Come on. Yeah, he's getting the light from the back of the room. The worst. Jesus, the worst possible thing you could do. Not even giving these people the respect of having their shit heard out in court. So during the closing arguments the

prosecutor just was pointing at him the whole time that this piece of garbage like it was just he said quote this man did it because renee wickland testified against him every piece of evidence points to that man and no other mr campbell had the motive he had the opportunity he had the intent he wanted to do it all you have to do is look at the pictures of that crime scene and you can hear the screams, which imagine the crime scene photos. Oh, my God. I don't want to see them. That's one where if they had him somewhere, I wouldn't even have fucking looked at him. Not even going to do it.

So the defense lawyer, they have a different argument and closing argument. Now they've gone to a different thing. Now they've gone to the sheriff's officers, planted incriminating evidence on him and tailored all the statements from a fucking two dozen witnesses. They orchestrated all the statements and fabricated all the incriminating evidence and planted it on him to make the theory fit that he was responsible. He said, quote, It's been one heated headlong race down a slippery slope to get Mr. Campbell to the gallows. Yeah, because this is a death penalty case. Obviously, aggravated murder here. So balls, but I mean, the balls, but it's their job.

He what else does he have? Right. Well, he's an upstanding fine. So he can't say that. Like, even with OJ, they could be like, he's a good guy. Like, people like him because a lot of people liked him. So you could no one likes this guy he's a fucking lunatic even in prison he's considered a bad guy right for prison uh november 26th 1982 is the verdict 39 minutes of deliberation dude that's like that's that that's shoddily filling out the paperwork. They forgot, left some shit out. They didn't care. Just slap it down.

He is found shocked guilty of three counts of aggravated murder. Big shocker here. And it was like no one felt bad for him. The jury foreman, Jim Hill, after the trial said, quote, the guy left a trail of evidence a blind man could follow. So that's the jury foreman you're fucked at that point uh he was asked campbell was asked for comment as he's let out of the courtroom and he just shook his head and didn't answer uh donald hendrickson who's barbara's husband who was murdered he saw that he saw this whole scene he said quote the end result is that i'm very pleased

with the verdict um it's a happy day for me. I'm not that happy. I'm sure. Good God. He also said that he planned to sue the state for allowing Campbell to be in a work release program when he had no business being out of jail and he just wouldn't have shouldn't have been there. He said, this will be on our minds forever and ever. I guess fucking so. Yeah. Now, sentencing on this. Yeah. Yeah yeah the savagery of this is wow they

talk about the savagery of this murders uh they talk about the horrible clinical version that they gave to the to the jury is even even taking it easy it's sanitized it's so fucking bad campbell's own mother meeting with the with both prosecutor and defense attorneys at separate times said she felt the death penalty was the only appropriate thing for her son her mom his mom his mom said that she's been praying for it for a while please kill my boy i beg you fucking kill this guy stop him from embarrassing me anymore don't let him come home no more prosecutors actually felt so bad for her they didn't even put her on the stand to say that really like they could have got his

own mother to go the only thing to do is kill my son and that would have been great for their case and they said let's we don't even need that that's too far that's too far they didn't want to put her through that they're like this is fucking rough man people are going to talk shit about her whatever uh jury finds aggravating factors four them, as a matter of fact. They only have to find one. Four was he was serving a term of imprisonment at the time he committed the murders. That would be enough right there. Barbara and Renee were both former witnesses against him, and the murders were related to their witness activity.

Campbell murdered Barbara Hendrickson and Shanna Wickland to protect or conceal his identity and that he committed the murder in the course of it, in the furtherance of or in the immediate flight from the crime of burglary in the first degree as well. All of these are bad. In a separate proceeding, the jury found zero mitigating circumstances

to merit any leniency. And they say, you, sir, may fuck off death by either lethal injection or hanging. Hell yeah. That's on the table. Awesome. So, yeah, this is wow. That's some shit. Does he get to decide or does the judge get to decide?

You can decide. But if you don't decide, then they decide. Okay. So the former sheriff afterwards is very happy. He said, quote, he didn't just kill them. He mutilated them. He raped and sodomized both women and a little girl. It's outraged.

Everyone is outraged. We had feelings for the families. We were just somewhat resentful against the state. Why was this man on work release? They didn't have the answers, he says. So he was just saying. He raped all three. Yeah, in his own way.

Yeah. But yeah, it was fucking brutal. He said that, you know, all these women would have been scared to death if they had known he was on the loose. They might have taken fucking precautions. At least make sure their doors are locked. Maybe something like that. Put a fucking alarm on their house something that might minimum at minimum some shit like that uh yeah this is uh fucking insane here the whole thing's fucking nuts uh renee wickland's sister said quote i hope to be here when he's executed which is uh yeah i

guess so here uh all sorts of t-shirts started popping up for sale, saying fucking an eye for an eye and hang in there, Charles, and all that horse shit. You know, assholes doing shit like that. Stop celebrating it. It makes it look bad. Exactly. Jesus.

We don't like doing this, but fuck, we hate that guy. Yeah, so it was rough here. He made us. Yeah. Another person that worked at a grocery store said i just want to see it carried out swiftly and promptly he's proven he doesn't deserve to live in society anymore and they should do away with him uh we all had the same reaction justice was done uh we're not vindictive or vengeful out here i can't say we're happy but we're relieved

so they're generally the northwest is a nice people up there they're pretty relaxed they're pretty laid back they're not like they don't have a big blood lust in the northwest that's just not how they are but uh you know it's not mississippi or anything not so or not since they settled it yeah exactly they used to they used to god damn it so in 85 he has an appeal we're gonna bust through these appeal just quickly, quickly, because it gets crazy here at the end. Not the appeal, the whole thing gets wild. So Campbell, he presents the appeal points. I'm telling you, get through the appeal. It's going to be crazy. So one of his appeals was whether absence at the jury selection violated his constitutional rights.

Oh, for fuck's sake. He did all that, and then he still brought it up on appeal, even though he sign-stated fucking every way you could waive your right there is, which is stupid because you have the right to remain silent, but if you say you want to talk, you can't then say later, well, I had a right to remain silent. Well, you chose to fucking waive it, stupid. That's the problem.

As long as they told you that was your right then that's all at that point it's on you uh he also says he received ineffective assistance of counsel with respect to his waiver at the jury selection thing meanwhile his attorneys were like constantly the judge like we told him a million times we begged him this is all his idea he wrote their names in the sworn affidavit saying, I don't want it. And he even said, they said that they're telling me blah, blah, blah.

I don't want their advice. Full confidence. Full confidence. Let them face it. That's their job. What am I going to fucking do? So they said, whether the Washington

death penalty statute provides a mandatory death penalty formula and fails to provide appropriate or reliable standards for sentencing authority to determine whether a death sentence should be imposed that's just the whole law and how it's set up basically uh whether the courts the trial court's instructions to the jury unconstitutionally uh limited the facts the jury could hear uh for mitigations he didn't get enough

mitigation he's saying on this and whether he he'd been denied other other in his post conviction for assistance of counsel there. And then whether the district court erred by denying his motion for a stay of execution and not providing an adequate evidentiary hearing. Whether execution by hanging violates the Eighth Amendment. And for that matter, whether Washington state employs qualified personnel to execute a hanging who's gonna do this it's not a career whose fucking job is that and that's the truth so uh yeah he argues all this shit uh we'll go through it very very fast they say yeah you raved you're right dickhead go fuck yourself there's a lot of legalese i could go into and this show would be an hour longer we don don't need it. So ineffective assistance of counsel.

Same thing. They say you couldn't have waived it any more fucking clearly. Like it just any more clearly. First, the death penalty statute is the next one. He argues there's no formula, any relevant factors. They said that the court says we already have held that washington through this revised code creates a presumption of leniency the statute does not interfere with campbell's right to an individualized sentence by limiting the discretion of the sentencing authority

because the jury is free to consider any mitigating factors the death death penalty statute is not a mandatory formula so he was saying like i i shouldn't be man it shouldn't be mandatory they're like it's not stupid. They hated you so much. They said, we can't wait to kill this fucking guy. That's what it was. It's pretty awesome. They chose to kill you because you're a dickhead.

Yeah. So he says that the jury wasn't allowed to consider mental disturbance, but they did. The psychologists all testified that he's not crazy he's just an asshole yeah so there's a difference between crazy and an asshole sorry uh yeah so uh also now the hanging shit this is where it gets interesting i really want to get into some hanging stuff i like this yeah uh but i have some funny stuff for you coming up too i'm gonna find out the perfect drop length for you my friend for hanging so i have a chart he challenges the constitutionality of hanging under the statute the statute provides that the

punishment of death shall be inflicted by either hanging by the neck or at the election of the defendant by lethal injection so you get hung unless you elected lethal injection so you gotta opt out of the you have to opt out of the hang the hangings which you're in for and then or you can opt because that was the original then when they introduced lethal injection they said or you can opt for this right so that's the law now it's like an email it is yeah you have to you gotta subscribe bro you shouldn't have fucking shouldn't have signed up for that free trial to get you so they get you this is great so whether now he's saying whether the execution by hanging violates the eighth amendment because it's cruel and unusual whether the

direction of the condemned uh the the whether the direction that the condemned be hanged unless he elects lethal injection uh cruel and unusual, too. They're saying you shouldn't hang a person. And if they have to choose lethal injection, he's saying that's cruel and unusual. Whether the direction that the condemned be hanged unless he elects lethal injection violates the First Amendment free exercise rights by compelling him to participate in his own execution to avoid hanging. He says that is against his. It's an infringement of his religious beliefs to make him participate in his own suicide, basically, to make him choose a death.

The fucking nutsack on this guy. I just want to kick it like a fucking 40 yard field goal. What? It didn't give anybody else a choice. No, what a comp... No. You just chose their way of dying. You chose throat-slitting, you fucking asshole.

They said he's able to choose lethal injection. That's his right. He has not done so. The state said that Campbell has consistently maintained he will not exercise his power to choose. That's because he's going to try to appeal that way. His refusal to exercise the option of lethal injection ensures his death warrant will be fulfilled He will not exercise his power to choose. That's because he's going to try to appeal that way. His refusal to exercise the option of lethal injection ensures his death warrant will be fulfilled by judicial hanging.

This case, therefore, presents a real dispute between the parties and blah, blah, blah. Eighth Amendment is cruel, unusual punishment. They said, obviously, hanging is pretty fucking rough and brutal. Basically, I want it yeah well they said that uh it's in this as used in the constitution cruel this is the law here implies something inhuman and barbarous something more than the mere extinguishment of life the cruelty against which the constitution protects a convinced a convicted man is cruelty inherent in the method of punishment not necessarily suffering involved in any method employed to extinguish

life humanly the unnecessary and wanton infliction of pain is what they're talking about torture and shit like that so Campbell does not argue that the punishment of death is disproportional to the crimes the focus is whether the method of execution involves unnecessary

and wanton infliction of pain. The court says we hold that it does not. So, yeah, I have some hanging details here under Washington Hanging Protocol. This is according to field instruction WSP 410.500, known as field instruction in the court documents here. They have a detailed methodology derived from U.S. Army regulation procedure for military executions. This is where they got this in 1959. Under the protocol, the rope must be between three quarters and one and one quarter inches in diameter. The rope is boiled, then stretched to eliminate most of its elasticity.

The rope is then coated with wax or oil so that it will slide easily. The instruction provides a diagram for knotting the rope properly. Wow. Washington employs a, quote, long drop method of hanging. This is amazing. This is like Deadwood in the beginning when he's like ah the drop ain't long enough i'm just gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna choke and he's like no i'll help you with your fall and then he uh kicks the stool out from under him grabs him around the waist and fucking yanks him down and breaks his neck while he's holding a

shotgun on a bunch of people basically he's the sheriff seth in the opening scene of deadwood and he's got a guy that stole some cattle that they're gonna hang basically because that's what you did back then a bunch of vigilante farmer cowboy people come up and say we're gonna fuck that we're taking him out of the jail we're gonna kill him and he said no you're fucking not and he held a shotgun on the crowd while he dragged this guy had him put a fucking noose around his neck and yanked him down and broke his neck. See, I did it. That is ballsy. Fucking gangster.

That's the first scene in Deadwood. Unbelievable. Amazing. So you won't watch it. So that's fine. So yeah, it's condemned. It's basically a particular distance based on the prisoner's weight. The drop.

How long of a drop. Because the goal here is to snap your neck, not to strangle or not for, in some cases, for your head to come clean off your body, which happens sometimes, too, if it's too long of a drop. So it's crazy. He's everything of people, the chances of someone being unconscious during a hanging first and asphyxiation as opposed to decapitation, as opposed to snapping the necks. Right. It's fucking ridiculous. The court basically finds that any of those things are fine to kill him, whether it fucking chokes him to death, whether it snaps his neck. snaps his neck. They said that the... We're good with all of it? We're good with all that. Well, they said the evidence demonstrates in general

that the interruption of vascular, spinal, or nervous functions by the mechanisms listed above results in rapid unconsciousness and death. Some doctor here testified that the rope going around the carotid arteries alone causes a loss of consciousness within six to ten seconds. That's what they're saying here. He also testified that severe trauma to the upper spinal cord would cause an instantaneous loss of consciousness and very rapid loss of life.

Basically, they're so six to ten seconds. Yeah, that's a fucking eternity. They said, but if they didn't break their neck or anything like that uh and and would die solely by asphyxiation it would take at least a minute and a half but no longer than two minutes so i mean it's fine is what they're saying here uh yeah they're they're talking about all these different ways the anglo-normans in the 11th century placed a noose around the neck of people they didn't have a drop they placed the noose and slung the other end of the rope over a beam and then hauled the person up.

They did a reversed rather than have him up and drop him. They had him down and fucking raised him. That's crazy. Which is way worse. I feel like that's asphyxiation. That's not going to do it. That's no, that's not doing it fast at all. It's just brutal.

Yeah. Later, they used ladders to get up there and they would uh do that and then they would be uh let up the ladder and then thrown off it and that's when the drop came uh the uh it didn't develop until the late 18th century so the 1700s is when the drop came for hanging people before that it was even just fucking horrible just choking people choking the death yeah it's uh they said appropriate drop distance is critical to conducting judicial hanging in the most humane way possible. If the short is to drop is to,

if the drop is too short in relation to the weight of the prisoner, death is likely to result from a mechanism of airway occlusion or occlusion. That is the condemned will asphyxiate. If the drop is too long, the death may result from decapitation so there's this real sweet spot there yeah you gotta it's a real thin line they're really getting the taint of the hanging and really make it nice uh yeah they said also the most important factor or an important factor for bringing a swift and painless death is the selection and treatment of

the rope i mean washington uses a rope uh like we said the diameter and uh they uh the very slender ligature is more prone to break the skin increasing the chances of a partial or complete decapitation a thicker rope is less likely to do that yeah so they're complaining that washington doesn't have good enough ropes it's too thin to hang this man you're doing it with a fishing line absolutely absolutely also they talk about the kinetic energy of taking the elasticity out of it and what that it's it's fucking crazy treating the surface of the rope to reduce surface friction allows the rope to slide easily and tighten around the neck yeah uh they said that this is an important factor in causing quick

unconsciousness and uh all of that thing. So Washington has conducted one judicial hanging according to the field instruction, and that was back in the 60s. Real quickly, I have a couple hanging bungles from back in time that we'll talk about. Oh, God. Hanging's gone wrong here. They excluded several items of evidence offered by Campbell's lawyers to show that there's been a lot of bungled ones. Here's evidence excluded by the court.

Several photos of a 1901 New Mexico execution of Black Jack Ketchum, clearly showing that Ketchum was decapitated. Two newspaper accounts of the execution of Richard Quinn in 1910, stating that Quinn was asphyxiated, pleaded pitifully with attendants to take him up and spring the drop again oh shit do it again oh

my god no that's the most horrible thing ever shoot that fucking guy in the head while he's dangling what was his crime if it was not rape and murder please for christ's sake of a three-year-old yeah jesus christ bring him back up do Do it again. Oh, man. Please drop me again. It's not working. Farther this time. Fucking do it again. So another one, the warden of a San Quentin prison in California, witnessed a hanging with the result of an asphyxiation

and a collection of research materials compiled by some guy here detailing executions all the way from the 1600s uh all of this shit uh campbell argues that for some of the bungled execution accounts he offered certain information was available or could be deduced or estimated and uh ketchum photos permit a rough approximation of the length of rope and perhaps the width of rope he's trying to say uh yeah now also is the religious rights thing and they say get the fuck out of here no uh it doesn't matter they say the statute does not compel campbell to compromise one constitutional right to avoid infringement of the other yeah so fuck off now the hangman

qualifications one i'm interested in this yeah he claims that there's no person employed or retained by the state who's qualified to conduct a hanging. Nobody knows that. Outsource it to Iraq. They got it right. Well, that's what they talk about. They said that the adoption of the field instruction renders the employment of a trained hanger unnecessary. The field instruction provides the superintendent will provide the briefing to those individuals as required to implement. So they're saying it doesn't even take any skill. There's a fucking there's a diagram.

Tie the knot and fucking drop him. So... Kick the stool. The instruction, the field instruction provides for rehearsals of all phases of the execution up to springing of the door, of the floor. So he drops. They said that prison officials conducted many rehearsals

of their last execution. They said that the field instruction to perform judicial hanging, basically they don't need a special hangman for this. We therefore reject Campbell's claim as moot. uh they said that the field instruction to perform judicial hanging uh it's basically they don't need a special hangman for this uh we therefore reject campbell's claim as moot oh boy affirmed fuck off is what they said there is a dissent to this decision that's on his side and it is super long this guy it's longer than the court case this guy's dissent he's fucking pissed he hates it he hates it what he ends i'll just i'll read

one excerpt of it that's very quick where uh he uh he says that hanging has been associated with the spectacle of public executions charles dickens in a letter to the london times described the mayhem at a hanging he attended in 1849 in england he said i'm gonna have to read that quote when i came upon the scene at midnight the shrillness of the cries and howls made my blood run cold as the night went on screeching and laughing and yelling in strong chorus of parodies of negro melodies good lord uh with a substitution of mrs manning one of the condemned prisoners for suzanna uh ruffians they were they were fucking they were singing they're singing like spoof songs To the gallows with you or some shit. That's pretty shitty, yeah.

The ruffians and vagabonds of every kind flocked to the ground with every variety of offensive and foul language. Fightings, faintings, whistling, imitations of punch, brutal jokes, tumultuous demonstrations of indecent delight when swooning women were dragged out of the crowd with their dresses disordered, gave new zest to the entertainment. Terrible shit there. People celebrating. People say that's what's disgusting and that's what we don't like there. That's what's bad. And we're none of us like we're very much. We don't know what this is.

Death penalty because there's people we really want to kill. Yeah, we this guy. If anyone deserves to die. Holy shit. It's this guy. Yahtzee. But the state fucks shit up so much. And the fact that they can kill this guy means that they'll fuck up the next guys. And that's what bothers us.

But somebody kill this guy. Let's just say that. We want this guy dead. Bad. But the dissenting opinion is not, it's moot also because we're not doing a public spectacle, man. No, but it's still, he's saying that it's it's cruel and unusual it's a his his thing is mainly based on the eighth amendment thing saying it's cruel unusual punishment if you don't think a public hanging is cruel unusual punishment in the 20th century

you're out of your fucking mind that is yeah sure which is true it's true and everybody here saying we get it this guy is a difference everybody's like look none of us like this none of we think this is terrible brutal but i would do it myself if i could there's little little old lady saying like that if i could hang this fucking guy do it myself he's an asshole and they're tapping him on like don't worry it won't be public don't worry so february 15th 1989 they set his execution date for march 30th 1989 march 7th 89 he files an appeal marchrd, the state Supreme Court rejects his challenges. March 27th, 89, U.S. District Judge rejects his second federal appeal. March 28th, it's getting close, the Ninth Circuit stays his execution, pending appeal.

Attorneys for the state and for Campbell present arguments in June of 1989. And this continues for a while. In 1990, he sued to have the hangman's identity be public. That was a lawsuit they had. And the judge decides the identity of Washington's hangman can be kept secret. They said that they found the disclosure of the man's identity probably would block execution of convicted murderer here and officials believe the executioner to be the nation's only qualified hangman there's one dude one dude who are you fuck is he i'm the hangman i'm the hangman that's amazing the only one i'm the hangman that's fucking wild really though i i don't care

tell him i'll whisper i'll whisper my social security number in your fucking ear. This is on his behalf is why they're not doing this. Prison officials believe the executioner to be the only qualified hangman, and he has made it clear he will only perform the job if his identity and hometown are kept secret. He wants no part of being known as the hangman, probably. Quote, the undisputed evidence is that the state could not proceed with an execution if disclosures were made uh so uh there's all sorts of groups appealing on his behalf obviously uh so uh wow they said that uh uh the the law has narrow exemptions for disclosure

and shit like that when it's a when it would hamper a vital government function and uh yeah so the judge said balancing the public's right to know with the right to have a government run properly quote we are a society of law and if the executive branch is prohibited from enforcing the law lawful court orders such as an execution then indeed there can be damage to the vital public interest uh if the state paid and this is what the the aclu on his behalf said if the state paid enough money they could find somebody tomorrow somebody from south africa for instance where they hang people all the time which is true uh they end up the they have a 1500 contract with him he gets paid 1500 to come in and do a hanging one day one day 1500 he's not making it's not bad no it's like doing like a shitty gig. Like a local shit one.

You only get one a year. That's it, yeah. You know what I mean? I get that. It's been the 60s since they had one. Oh my God. They ended up having one right before him, as we'll talk about here. The judge declined to rule on the constitutionality of hanging.

He says, I'm not going to get involved in that. Washington, they said he can do a preference anyway of lethal injection if you want don't do the hanging sir yeah the last execution at that point in the nation was in iowa in 1965 so a long time ago same dude no did he hang that one no no i probably i hope not so uh last minute appeal as 1994 comes around last minute minute appeal. They argued, his lawyers argued that he had not been given a fair review whether the punishment

fit the crime and whether the hanging is cruel and unusual punishment. They lost a last ditch effort to the U.S. Supreme Court and the governor, Mike Lowry, also refuses to intervene

despite his opposition to the death penalty. He said, yeah, I don't like it and hanging's especially bad but let's just kill this guy first. Once he's gone, let's start out fresh. But he's got it.

Did you hear what he did? You want to see a crime scene photo? That's one of those. You show a crime scene photo and be like, we're fucking him. Yeah, let's do that one. Hook him up. Let's go.

No, no, no. That's an eight-year-old? Yeah, oh boy. Show me how to tie that knot. Yeah, yeah. So as the hanging gets close, there's 50 opponents of the death penalty and about 200 people cheering and yelling, get a rope and all that shit. Oh, God. Thinking they're cool.

Yeah, they all think they're in the Old West at that point. The old picante sauce commercial coming out. Yeah, this is stupid. So April 15th, 1994, the the ninth circuit refuses to hear his appeal and lifts the stay of execution uh may 28th 1994 is execution day um everyone there's music and partying uh he this is this is interesting he had requested a fish dinner as his last meal he wants some fish but he refuses to eat his last meal and uh also while they're searching his room authorities find a four inch piece of metal that he sharpened into a blade he made a fucking shank

he had a shank on death row literally as he was about to go out to get hung he had a shank in his fucking he had a shank in his cell incredible uh he refused to go he wouldn't leave the cell. They had to forcibly riff. He's a huge guy, too. They had to pepper spray him to subdue him and handcuff him to drag him to the execution room. Amazing. Which is, that's when it's brutal. It's like, oh, boy, that's rough. But then again, I'm sure the eight-year-old didn't fucking, she probably struggled, didn't want to go either.

He had to drag her, too. Yeah, they had to strap him to a board so his body would be rigid because he was like falling down and collapsing while he was walking to the gallows and for waiting for this trap door to spring yeah so rather than him falling down and choking and whatever and looking bad for them they said oh no stand him up straight yeah strap into a fucking board and stand him up if you want uh yeah that's legit murder and he yeah this is this is this is rough it gets worse oh it gets worse so he weighed 224 pounds okay now i've always said i have to bulk up if i ever want to hang myself because i'm too thin and if i i'm gonna just strangle i need to get a little heavy to snap if you ever see me getting a little pudgy yeah worry about me that means i'm it's i'm getting depressed okay jimmy what do you weigh right now uh 170 170 six foot drop for you holy

shit that's far six foot drop would kill you that's the the the army regulation there uh i weigh about 195 right now so five and a half inches or five and a half feet i would drop oh i have to go so far so far six feet now if you weigh like let's say 130 pounds 135 pounds 135 pounds seven foot four oh boy you're going down far drop bigger than shack under 120 eight foot one that's a that's a drop man holy shit ladies drowning their kids you better be careful you're going for a ride don't do it here uh he weighs 224 pounds 220 pounds and over is a five foot drop that's uh recommended there now two hours this they're executing him two hours after texas executed another murderer who was convicted of killing a Dallas police officer. So that was the same day.

It's a killy kind of day. When they got him strapped to the board and got him to the gallows, he repeatedly moved his head so the cloak or the noose couldn't be put on easily because they put a hood over his head. They couldn't get the hood over his head. It took 90 seconds to get the hood on his head and then to try to fix the noose finally before so i mean he struggled every bit of the way um and uh he's like a stray dog one thing he

made everybody realize what it was though this is what it is you're fucking hanging a person against their wills normally people go quietly and everyone goes well you know that's whatever but when someone struggles this is a state official physically struggling to murder a person, which is a little fucking creepy. I think that's not that I don't think he was trying to make a statement. But if you look at it from that way, you go, that's kind of creepy. But after this guy, let's get him out of the way first, though. So he ends up offering no final words. Last words.

He didn't have shit to say other than get this fucking noose off my head. He was pronounced dead six minutes after he was dropped through the trap door. Six. I think they let him sit for a minute, but they said by all witnesses, basically, once he dropped, nobody saw him move a muscle. Okay. They think he snapped his neck. He was unconscious and blood slowing down.

At least unconscious. At least. His son, Jacob, put a blog post up. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. This guy here. He says, this is the nun's son yeah uh this is uh his name is jacob uh quote uh my name is jacob campbell i was born october 18th 1982 some of my earliest years were spent in a courtroom with my father he was on trial for three accounts of murder that's not how you say that he was going uh this was going on in snohomish county and his name was like a household item for those living in the area charles rodman campbell was sentenced to a sentence to death row

during the same era that death row records with tupac dr dre and others was created i was visiting my dad on death row at walla walla state Pen. Even though he was in prison, we had a good relationship sometimes because my mom and I would visit him weekly. My dad would also write me letters all the time. I wouldn't write him back very often, though. I was young. In 1994, when I was in the sixth grade, there was a decision that my father's time was up, and I went and petitioned the governor. I didn't want my dad to die. He was executed. Only the second man to be executed in the state of Washington recently. This caused a lot of hurt in my life. I started wanting to run away from it all.

In middle school, I did not really have any friends. I would think not. That's hard. Because they all listen to Tupac. And you're over at their house. And he's all going, death row. And you're like, I miss you, dad. Oh, shit.

Yeah, come on, dad. Oh, I feel it. When I got into high school i got heavily involved in the party scene i look back now and it seems like i was trying to dull my senses i abused almost any drug that you might name and have my life completely caught up in the whole scene the really scary thing was my drinking i would i would also go uh and nightly drink until i was stupid drunk past the point of control and feeling i should have died a number of times driving recklessly drunk then he talks about how he's

found jesus and everything's great now but it was hard to be son of a death row person you're also son of a nun so yeah you don't have to do what you're doing yeah uh the the house of which renee which renee was murdered in has been knocked down. Oh, thank God. And they even wiped the address clean of it. They did an OJ on it. Good. Knocked down the house.

The address is different. Just purged the world of all of this shit. Salt the earth. Absolutely. Fuck, man. Renee Ahlers-Wickland. She is buried in Jamestown in stutsman county north dakota it's the highland home cemetery uh goddamn fucking shame that poor girl horrible and her kid and then

poor barbara and everything that is is clearview washington what a town that's a story come right there yeah come on down everybody forest is a great place for the bodies, remember? He just wanted to be himself. He was just trying to be himself, Jimmy. What I'm still stuck on is that that husband, that guy had nothing to do with Charles, the guy that came in and burned him. We don't know. We have no clue. That no one was ever found.

No one was ever processed. It could have been a friend of his. It could have been somebody that got out of jail. It could have been a fluke. it could have been somebody that got out of jail and he's you know it would have been a fluke it could have been the biggest coincidence ever what a terrible tragic life that guy had fucking crazy and her too yeah that was traumatic for her because then she's got to think are they going to come set me on fire now i mean it's did they cut his brake lines how did he really die dude this whole thing is nuts what a disaster and then the hanging but he got hung in the end and he's pretty rad he is one of the most vile human beings we've covered though i think we can

say that honestly so uh yeah that's that's clearview washington and that's small town murder uh if you like that i got an idea of how you can do this you can uh definitely definitely get on uh get on itunes or apple podcast or whatever the hell and give us a review that helps us out tremendously five stars would be immensely immensely helpful uh if you want to uh be you can even go to shut up and give me murder.com and you can uh you can find merchandise all of our stuff there there's cups and mugs and shirts and bath mats leggings are on sale right now by the way the leggings have been put on sale just because people wanted them

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We just want to say thank you. We're not putting it up to be like, now give us money, more money, and you can see this. We're trying to thank you for donating to us. And we're going to try to do more of these in the future. You guys mean everything to us. You do. And we just want to do stuff for you as much as we can. Right.

So that said, Jimmy, why don't you hit us with a list of the people who we thank the most and who are most responsible for all of this wonderfulness. This week's executive producers are Mike and Desiree Ramirez in Texas. We met them at the Dallas show. Thank you. Justin Miller, Mike Kennedy donated twice. Thanks, Mike. Kat Brinker, congrats on the new career. She's not working for the government anymore.

Hey, look at you. Thank you, Kat. Thank you so much, Kat. Crystal Gennaro, Ariana Light, Andrew Corey Elkins. That's what that is. And then Doug Kiefer, Doug Kuyper, two shoes. I don't know what that means. then doug keifer to uh doug kuiper two shoes i don't know what that means i don't know but thank you thank you doug shit we sure appreciate you too uh damn it i didn't write her goddamn name down what a Jesus Christ i'm sorry i'll find it

next week uh tom smith thomas smith uh sarah kula uh melissa lynn shauna m McCarroll, James Fraker, Pickle Bean, Katie Holland, Pong Sott, Dylan Hauer. Yes. Brandon Ables. Ah, yeah. We love Brandon. He's so nice. Thanks, Brandon.

Janice Hill, Zach Dubois, Jesse Hartman, Amanda Hostlin, and her twins, Harper and Delaney. She wanted to name them Jimmy and James, but they came out as women. Yeah, James is an odd name for a girl. That's a little tough. You could probably pull off Jimmy, maybe, like Charlie or something like that. James is not. J-I-M-M-Y-E or something. Yeah, James, no.

That's not going to work. Gary Howard, Hannah Simmons, Felicia Newton. No. Ah, shit. Keisha. It's Keisha Newton. Got it. Steve Schnell over there in Philly.

Hey, heavy metal scientist. Oh, man. Joe Guernsey and his girlfriend Shelby. Happy birthday, Shelby. got it uh steve schnell over there in philly hey heavy metal scientist my man uh joe joe guernsey and his girlfriend shelby happy birthday shelby well happy birthday uh b english jason fuller uh heather faller uh yeah he's gonna be jacked about this one uh drew shockley uh reagan shalkley uh amanda tucker russian the russian goat uh pe Meadows, Eric Langennecker, Sheldon Hall, Karen Rogowski, Ashley Veo, Jesse Pitts, Melissa Thorson. Talk to Clay again. That's what he wanted us to beg her to do, is to say her name so that she talks to him

again. Okay. Talk to Clay. I don't know what you fucked up, Clay. If you want her to talk to you, give her money. Right, right. Don't give it to me. Don't give it to us.

Give it to her. Melissa, go in the room and tell him that he's an asshole. He could have bought you flowers. Yeah, there you go. Thank you. We appreciate you. Thank you. I'll keep flower money for myself.

Martina Lelonga, Regina Kutajaroff, Heidi Porter, James Martyr, and his one-year-old, I forgot her name. God damn it. But his daughter just turned one. Now she won't hear it. Now she won't hear it. Thank you, young daughter. Christy Flatyard, Jennifer Balbo, Tyler Gwill, Dave Allen, Will Poindexter, Chelsea Morgan,

Victoria Vyachowskik. No. Vyachowskik. I almost got it. I'm sorry, Victoria. Slack Willamette. Amy Spicer. Tuomas Brigatti.

Olivia Reed. Maria. No. Marion. Marion. Marion. No. Marion Maroonich. That's it. Elizabeth Wolfinger.inger uh mike and desiree ramirez i said that a minute

ago eliza elisa and barbara ruse or rouse uh andrea reynolds or andrea reynolds uh holly b britney britney butler margie coonsie is back uh free good to see you again marge freak rolling is that right that's to be a thing. Okay. Listen, I don't know. Alyssa, Alyssa Katu, Katu, fuck, Katu, got to get this right. Katu Agno. Katu Agno.

Katu Agno. I can't do it. Jake LaBeer, Aaron Olivia, Jasmine Nicole, Matt Dietrich, Olivia Herman, Joe Cullen, Jordan Bennett. Thanks, Jordan. Rich Latch. And Jordan has a great story that she was listening to us and talking about in our fitting room. And then the door swung open.

And there was a girl there with boobs out. And then that same- Good story so far. Yeah. She saw great boobs. And then that same woman showed up to her door to sell her something. And Jordan was- I've seen your boobs. Yeah.

And she said, they're great. So good for you I've seen your boobs. Yeah. And she said they're great. So good for you, girl with great boobs in Canada. All right. Rich Latch. Great Canadian boobs. Find me on the internet and tell me all about it. Don't do that. Don't do that. Layla Shake. Yes.

Rich Latch. I said that. Krister Hanoi. Chris Henson. Dana Papalia. Allison Morris. Suzanne Larson, Elaine DeCoste, Kelly Higbee, happy birthday to her husband, Michael. And seriously, don't find me and tell me about your boobs. Can't thank you guys enough, honestly. You're the fucking best, and you keep this show going.

You're the goddamn heartbeat of this show. Without you, we're two dicks talking about murder together. Yeah, we're talking about how far to drop to be hung and it's just lousy no one wants to hear that but with you guys it makes it so much better we can't thank you guys enough uh for everything and what if they wanted to thank you for something or for other you can find me at whisman sucks w-h-i-s-m-a-n sucks on twitter instagram and snapchat and i am blown away with uh with how far my ride has to be what about you you can find me uh at jimmy p is funny or just copy and paste my last name from the show description save yourself some frustration as you try to spell it uh do that follow us come see us come to live shows hang out hit us up on social media do your thing i don't fucking know

what you're doing go to a live show and hang out. What else do you do? No, just you said hang out after this episode. Yeah. Hang out. You know what? We're just trying to be ourselves, man. We just want to do what we got to do.

Till next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.