Small Town Murder - #114 - Hot For Teacher in Crandon, Wisconsin

Episode Date: April 11, 2019

This week, in Crandon, Wisconsin, a college student begins an affair with one of his professors, but problems begin to arise. Mainly because this professor is a married woman, and also having several other affairs. Her mild mannered husband doesn't get mad, but instead asks all parties concerned to please stop their behavior. This of course leads to violence, but who will snap first seems like a photo finish, in this case!Along the way, we find out that the names of states apparently used to not use the letter 'y', that a lot can happen in such a rural area without anyone knowing, and that no one can really be calm about being cheated on!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Crandon, Wisconsin, an affair between a student and his professor leads to many problems outside of school, including murder. Welcome to Small Town Murder.

hello everybody and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i am jimmy wissman thank you folks so much again for joining us on another crazy wild just insane edition of small town murder they get crazier by the week it seems like that's nice it's which is always good that's always fun and no exception this week makes it exciting it does it makes it crazy and fun and weird it's weird thing to say about murder but it's kind of what we do here it's kind of what we do here uh yeah hope you enjoyed last week and this this week we're coming we're going up to the north we'll talk about that in a second here we're going up to wisconsin oh oh boy we're gonna go freeze up in the north woods We'll talk about that in a second here. We're going up to Wisconsin. Oh. Oh, boy.

We're going to go freeze up in the north woods. Frozen tundra. A lot of great outdoors references, I imagine, are going to be coming your way. Is that where it was? Buckle up the north woods, yeah. Was that in? The bear of the north woods. Remember he says? I didn't realize it was Wisconsin.

Yeah, they went up to Wisconsin up there. So, yes, but thank you. First of all, let's start at the beginning. We should. Thank you. House cleaning. Thank you so much for all of all, let's start at the beginning. We should. Thank you. House cleaning. Thank you so much for all of your reviews this week on iTunes and otherwise. iTunes, Apple Podcasts, the purple icon.

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Listen to that and then start from the beginning because it's insanity and it's a lot of fun. So I love this. Somebody mentioned Stouffer's. Yeah. Because Stouffer's and then Stouffer's is like, we would like to hear more. I don't think you'd like to hear. I don't think it's really a long story and you don't come out well in the end

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You can also do both of those things right through shut up and give me murder.com. Please do. We have to do the disclaimer quickly. Obviously, this is a comedy show. It's a comedy podcast. We're comedians, so we make jokes. All the facts are 100% real. The cases are real.

Nothing's embellished or made silly for humorous purposes. You might say, what's so funny about murder? As some people have said to us, lots of shit, as a matter of fact. And eat shit, WGN. Yeah, that's right. It happens. There's a lot of stuff around. Usually when there's a murder, there's a lot of crazy things happening around to cause this murder.

And that's what we joke about small towns people living crazy life life lives a police force that can't find a killer who's right under their noses it's easy there's a lot of jokes to it but that's what we're warning you about there's jokes in here some people think true crime and comedy should never go together and they should not listen to the show because they won't have any fun and we want to have fun and we want you to have fun. But if you don't think that, if you think that you want to have a good time, you're in the right goddamn place. Yeah, we're going to do this. And I think it's time to shout from the rooftops out your car window, from your treadmill, from your cubicle.

Unless you work in a conservative office, then feel free to go to the bathroom and say it, you know, quietly into your arm. Say, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this. Yeah, then feel free to go into the bathroom and say it, you know, quietly into your arm. Say, shut up. Give me murder. Let's do this. Yeah. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. What do you say? All right.

Let's get going. I think we need to get going. Let's go all the way to Wisconsin, all the way to Crandon, Wisconsin. In the summer. We're going to, oh baby, Crandon, Wisconsin. Spring? What is it? I don't know.

Is it spring right now? Yeah, it's spring still. It's in the tape. I think this is like the meat of spring. This is the taint of right now? Yeah, it's spring still. It's April. I think this is like the meat of spring. This is the taint of the spring right here. It's very bizarre. It's deep. This time of year in America is weird because here we're already fucking miserable.

Well, some places it's 90 degrees. Some places it's snowing. It's a very odd place we live here. Imagine Wisconsin is the latter there. It's probably cold, especially here because Crandon is up in the very northeast tip of the state. It's up there it's just a it's like a mini almost a mini panhandle nub kind of just just starting to jut out but it's it's connected to the UP there the upper peninsula of Michigan way up at the top of it too it's basically Canada uh it's it's up there it's three hours and 45 minutes to Milwaukee

which is still that's not like that's not like south in the state either that's up there it's three hours and 45 minutes to milwaukee which is still that's not like distance that's not like south in the state either that's up there uh four hours to minneapolis and four hours and 20 minutes to mineral point wisconsin which was episode number 64 that we did and uh i don't know how far it is to baraboo but hopefully far for everyone here stay away from baraboo uh it's in forest county which is appropriate because this shit is nothing but trees oh they didn't dig deep we're no they just went well there's a lot of trees out there you want to do something with that i don't know woods woodsland county how about forest all right done stamp over it's not named after gump no definitely not no. No, it's not a double R. Okay. Like a forest.

Like a dude's name. Nathan Bedford Forest. Right. Zip code here, 54520. Area code 715 and 534. One area code cannot hold this town. I love when they do that. Can't hold it.

It's six square miles, the town. So it's not a huge town. Not a tiny, tiny town. The motto of the town itself is, quote, Center of Wisconsin's Northwoods. So that's the town motto. It's not real catchy and snappy. Well, they couldn't say the center was gone because they're like, we're way the center of the Northwoods. So they're just like, I don't know.

We're in the Northwoods. Let's call ourselves the center of the Northwoods. Well, we're not really the center. We're off to the look. It's fucking marketing, Bill it's marketing let's call ourselves the fucking center when they're in the middle of forest for the trees no saying when they're in the middle they won't know the fucking difference they'll think they're in the middle and you know what else uh bill uh they have to get here yeah to find out that that shit's not true so just try

to get them here no one's going to show up and be like, we're actually slightly in the eastern part of the North. No one's doing that. And even if they do, they were here. They're here. We got the tourism money. Cash the county motto, the county for Forest County.

Their motto is, quote, take a breath because you can. There's a lot of oxygen. I prefer this one because there's a second motto to the county. There's take a breath. And then somebody did like a response motto to it, i feel is much better uh quote don't take a breath everywhere around you is nothing but cheesy beer farts so that's the other take a breath and

fucking hold it and hold it because it's nothing but cheese and beer farts and wisconsin you think it's like a cliche yeah that you know oh they have a lot of cheese no no if you drive on a highway in wisconsin every exit has 14 signs for places with fucking cheese that's all that's it there's not you know restaurants it's just like all these places to buy cheese how much cheese can you buy well i mean in one place that's a brilliant fucking uh plan though in terms of like product to make because you can't just make that at home you know i mean like no no you can build couches and shit all you want but i can go on pinterest and i can figure out how to make a couch yeah i mean you can make cheese but it's not fun it's a nightmare it's a nightmare it's a real pain in the ass i don't know how much cheese people are buying off the road just to keep this

going i don't understand it van cheese is there yeah there's probably vans right vans and people like like in arizona there's guys it's 115 degrees there's a guy with a van parked outside of town and like on a desert corner yeah on a van with a sign that says shrimp yeah like i'm gonna buy i'm gonna buy shellfish from a man in the middle of the desert in a van when it's 115 degrees and mangoes yeah two things don't go together i mean i guess they could but that's a bizarre that you don't get those at the same place i've never slammed on my brakes and like big cloud of dust behind me as i slide off into the desert did that say shrimp he's got shrimp everybody no no there's shrimp i'm sure he's got it refrigerated very well kids it's only 115 out so i'm sure it's fine

it's all on dry ice down Get it iced down. Jesus Christ. That's so gross. It's terrible. Iced down shrimp is the most. That's a terrible garage band. It's awful. At least a bad first album. One of the worst.

One of the worst. History of this town. The town website, this is amazing, by the way. Right at the top of the website, it gives you just a little piece of what they are. And it says, Forest County welcomes you! Exclamation point, obviously. website it gives you just a little piece of what they are and it says forest county welcomes you exclamation point obviously and then it says you'll not find a traffic light or a parking meter but you'll find warm and friendly people in a beautiful setting to make your time here memorable there is not a traffic light in the county just keep driving in the county and i've seen pictures of like the main street of the town and it it's just, there is nothing, nothing hanging from a wire anywhere. It's just fucking stop signs.

It's weird. It looks like the 40s or something. Well, that's not really much of a draw, is it? No stop, no stop lights. I mean, you still got a sign. I'm still going to hit the brakes. I feel like they're embarrassed about it. As I said, you'll not find a traffic light or park meter,

but that's, don't judge us based on that. You will find warm and friendly people, and it's beautiful, so don't judge us based on that you will find warm and friendly people and it's beautiful so don't worry about it just get out of there uh crandon's the county seat of forest county because it's the only incorporated community in the county this is the middle of fucking nowhere i cannot reiterate that enough this is this is where john candy takes his family on vacation for chicago and his son uh puts a pool cue up against a local's vagina. That's this is what this is the town. I feel like where this is taking place.

How close were those pool tables that he got enough enough cue in there for her to spin around and throw it across the bar? Not to mention. That's not tapping her in the stink star. Who shoots pool with your fucking hand halfway up the pool? You had your hand in the back.. Who shoots pool with your fucking hand halfway up the pool cue? You had your hand in the back. He would have felt it with his hand. Or his elbow.

Hey, I just goosed you, sweetheart. How you doing? I'm real sorry about that. As a gentleman, I'm so sorry. With his hair? Yeah. Jesus. 80s wave.

I saw a kid two days ago with that exact haircut. I actually, because I looked, I pulled it up on my phone to show my daughter. I go, doesn't he look like that? She goes, oh my God, he does. he does yeah exactly my son wears his hair like that jesus christ stop that put a stop to that jimmy try so hard but you know the kid plays soccer and he wants to look like the fucking soccer players like you see landon donovan or dave beckham give him a mohawk while he sleeps you have control of this child still he's still young he has no say over anything still. You're bigger than him.

It's tough when I've had him get a haircut, and I got it cut short, and then the fucker cried as we walked out. That's right. That's good. You get him in a headlock, and you just zip one down the middle with the shaver. That's like, well, you got to cut it now, or else you'll look like a fruit. Now what are you going to do? You look crazy.

You look like a complete nutcase now. You're a fucking idiot. You don't know what you're doing. I'm a silly person. I look like a professional wrestler now now. You don't know what you're doing. I'm a silly person. I look like a professional wrestler now. What did I do to myself? So Samuel Shaw, who was an entrepreneur and a capitalist, apparently, he bought property in Forest County in the 1880s, and people started coming to the area.

German and Polish immigrants mainly came here. And Crandon, they tried to be a farming community first, because that's what these people knew how to do. They tried to farm potatoes. They were like, let's make potatoes. I guess you don't make potatoes. Let's grow potatoes. They could make potatoes.

That's a... Fuck, I'd pull off the side of the road for that. If you had a van that said homemade potatoes, you'd be like, how the fuck did you do that? How'd you do it, sir? I don't want any. Don't get me wrong. Give me your business card, though. But I'm curious about your How'd you do it, sir? I don't want any. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. Give me your business card, though. But I'm curious about your process.

You got a YouTube channel? I want to see it. Yeah, I need your business plan. So they tried potato farming, and they tried dairy up there, and it didn't work because they're in the middle of the forest, apparently. So residents relied on fishing, poaching, I guess, and picking berries to survive. So this turned into like... Foraging?

Yeah, this turned into like stranded hill people, Donner Party action. Where there's... Thanks, shit, there's berries. What happened in the winter? It snows feet up there. Like this is... There's no berries. There's no goddamn berries.

There's no anything. The ice is frozen. The water's frozen thick. There's no fishing.'s no anything. The ice is frozen. The water's frozen thick. There's no fishing. I don't know what you're going to do here. So they finally got a county in 1887. They lobbied and lobbied to create Forest County there. And they finally got rail service there in the late 1800s.

But I guess the ice line didn't reach directly into the town until after the turn of the 20th century. So they had a real problem getting people to recognize, hey, we're up here. We're all the way to hell. Because they're just so far up there in the forest. If they're not in front of you complaining, you'd forget they're there.

I don't know those forest people up there. Who cares? The Keebler elves up there. I don't know what they're doing. Who gives a shit? And their berry and foraging parts are going into Canada, so nobody can even smell them up there. Tell cares? The Keebler elves up there. I don't know what they're doing. Who gives a shit? And their berry and foraging parts are going into Canada, so nobody can even smell them up there. Tell you what you do.

Tell you what you do. They've been breaking our balls. Next time they come to town out front, just leave some berries and some roadkill out there. Maybe a fish. They'll be totally distracted by that, and then we can all just leave. There they are, and they'll be foraging and then we can take off.

So the lumber industry was the one who was a big deal here in this town. The Page and Landeck Lumber Company got a bunch of hardwood timberlands near Crandon around the turn of the century, the 1900s. And they built a huge sawmill near the lake on the north side of Crandon. near the lake on the north side of Crandon. And in a couple of years, because there was work there, the population grew from 800 to about 2,400 just in like three years. They just needed work. And people will go places for work.

Absolutely. One thing we've proved in this country is if there's jobs, people will fucking go there for them. They'll show up. People live in Florida. You know what I mean? I mean, that's a proof. Proof positive. Speaking of that, we're going to be coming to Florida on this next tour again.

A couple of cities. A couple of cities. So, yeah, we'll keep making fun of you. So, with the railroad there, they tried to get people to come in, settlers and loggers from Kentucky. Now, turn of the century Kentucky, this is some jug band shit here we're talking. This is some hill folk fucking... Scary folks. Yeah, this is some jug band shit here we're talking this is some hill folk yeah fucking scary folks yeah this is some uh yeah there's dueling banjos happening this is our washboard

yeah that's what i mean we have a washboard somebody sent us uh but they recruited these people up there because they didn't mind going up there and uh eventually the uh the sawmill was moved from crandon to kentucky which is odd i don't know if they were like, we like these Kentucky people so much. We should have all our employees be from Kentucky. Let's go to Kentucky. Or Kentucky folks were like, you know, this is a bit far. This is a long commute. Yeah.

No, it's true. Now, the modern there, they love bringing up, and we'll talk about it later in Things to Do, but they love bringing up their, quote, Kentucky ancestors. They call everything Kentucky. They don't even put the Y on it, you know, because it's too much to do. It's a lot. It's a lot. So it makes it cartoony when you put the Y.

So much more casual just to be like Kentucky. You know what I mean? It's like calling Michael Jordan Mike. You know what I mean? Like, you know him. I know Mike. Yeah. No, you don't.

That's what it is. It's very familiar. Not from Kentucky. Yeah. No, it's all good. City was incorporated as Cndon in 1909 and then they built a courthouse and they built shit like that right around this time uh the timber has since diminished there they don't have as much timberland that that's taken down uh there's

uh there's a a couple of logging companies but not not too much Their economy became, based in the 1900s here, they had a creamery. All right. A potato warehouse. We can't grow them, but I'll be goddamned if we can't store them. I can't make... A potato warehouse. I can't grow the potatoes, but if you grow some potatoes,

you can store them in my warehouse. I got that covered. The money's not in the growing. It's in the housing. It's not a museum. It in my warehouse. I got that covered. It's not in the... The money's not in the growing. It's in the housing. It's not a museum. It's a warehouse. Yeah, no, no. It's not like a potato retrospective where you go and admire potatoes.

It's, I guess, to hold them over for shipping or something. There's probably one in Idaho, right? I would assume so. Like in some sort of museum? Because I like them. I would assume so. It's the most versatile thing on the planet. Yeah, obviously.

Potato's the greatest thing ever. You can make everything from booze to gnocchi. That's a pretty big... That's a pretty wide spectrum. It's the most versatile thing on the planet. Yeah, obviously. Potato's the greatest thing ever. You can make everything from booze to gnocchi. That's a pretty big. That's a pretty wide spectrum. It's a wide spectrum. There's not an actor on Earth that has that much range. It's fucking versatile. You know how potatoes are in our house.

In my house, potatoes are like a holy thing. It's the greatest thing ever. Sarah's a potato enthusiast. I love them. From way back. They also had a cheese factory, a cabinet shop, and a broom handle factory. Just the handle.

We do not make the sweepy part on the bottom. The bristles? Forget it. We don't do that. We have a sister factory in Kentucky where they make the bristles. But here, we meet in Ohio and we put them together and make brooms.

Somebody in Ohio makes the threaded part part that's how it works they had a big a big big uproar from the 80s to the early 2000s about it they're supposed to be they wanted to have a mine it's a big environmental thing they wanted to have a mine i guess there's a copper deposit there that Exxon found, and they wanted to extract. So there was a lot of 1998, the legislature passed an act to limit mine sites. And basically, yeah, a lot of people didn't want to destroy the North Woods. And some people were like, but there's shit in the ground, and we need to get it. Mother Earth is here, and she's here for the raping we need it damn it uh so the project was finally with this is from the 80s it took it was finally withdrawn

in october of 2003 they finally gave up and said all right 20 years and we still haven't pulled a fucking speck of copper from the ground let's just say never mind also you're about a hundred years too late for mines yeah that's not yeah it's a dying industry especially you're gonna get into it in a national forest area you're gonna go in and go we want to really just pull some shit out of the ground and we're like is there a shortage of copper right now i think we're good you know it's not like there's fucking oil under there or something where you know whatever so anyway another dying industries you want to get into we're gonna set up a shoe cobbling stand at the top of the mine.

We've got a milkman university. It's a training center. We've got a whole university here for the milkman. Keep it cold. Unlike the shrimp guy on the side of the road. It's got to compete with him. It's a bitch. October 2007.

October 7th. As a matter of fact, this is a famous murder happened here. Obviously, they're not going to cover that one because people have already covered it. So what the hell do we care? It's not us.

Not us. So we like to give you guys different shit. Like people will be like, how about Ed Kemper? You ever hear him? Like, yeah, so is every other podcast on earth.

So that's why we don't do it. We do ones that you've never heard of. That way it's different. I don't know. We're just trying to give you different stuff. You want to hear about Ed Kemper? You don't even have to go to iTunes for it. Go to YouTube and you can watch 19 different documentaries.

There's a ton. 19's a conservative number. Yeah, you can see a whole interview from his fucking mouth. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, October 2007, a Tyler Peterson, who's an employee of the Forest County Sheriff's Department and an officer with the Crandon Police Department, shot seven people, killing six of them in town. It was an ex-girlfriend involved. I read the story. I won't get into it, but there's an ex-girlfriend, and he thought she was cheating or whatever, and there was people at her house.

He came and kind of slapped her around and then left and then came back with an ar-15 and lit the place up and shot a bunch of people so not not good uh 2014 they were called their mayor which i always find is fine how bad can you you have to fuck up in a small town what has to happen there's just main street is one big sinkhole since main street completely fell apart since this mayor took Street completely fell apart, since this mayor took... There's been no electricity since this mayor has taken office. I feel like we should recall them. Who cares?

Two to one margin, too. They must have really been pissed at him. Maybe he approved legislation to put up a stoplight and they were like, fuck this guy. Fuck you. Have you seen our website?

We're not changing that. We don't know how to do it. A guy put it up. We paid a young man. We bring up the password. We paid a young man years ago to put it up, and we haven't changed it since. And frankly, we don't know how to change it back. So it is what it is.

Keep paying GoDaddy for bandwidth. We're not changing the website. They have a logging industry here still slightly. There's a tourism industry like John Candy and his kids and a light industry. They make lights here oh light bulbs light bulbs yeah they also have a lot of camping like hell yeah like john candy and the world championship off-road races also here they have a big uh racetrack i'll talk about i'll watch later yeah so it's a dirt dirt trucks and yeah it looks pretty fun looks like a good

time yeah so you'll do you'll go to those yeah that looks like fun. Oh, I'm taking you. Yeah, I'll watch from a distance. I'm not sitting among the people there. You're going and sitting on steel bleachers? I'm not sitting next to hillbillies. I can't do it. The 12-ounce beer. I can't do it.

You can stare at the beer. I don't care. Don't drink it. I don't give a shit. I'll have to drink it just to numb myself. Go with me. I can't handle it. I want to take you to that and just watch you sweat and hate every second i

can't sit among hillbillies i just can't fucking do it i can't do it i can't i hear them talk i hear fucking dumb shit i'm telling you the conversation over here oh i know so good fun though i guess so good just take a microphone with us and record them and talk about them bonus episode hell yeah so uh crandon also in this tiny town in the middle of the forest has two casinos so you gotta have that uh wow you got a race you need a casino yeah the population is held very steady here it peaked out at 2 000 people in 1940 and then it has been astonishingly uh consistent in 1940 2 000 people the year 2010 1920 people that's pretty decent and it was stayed right in that area never like fluctuated uh population now 1967 people which is down one

percent since 1990 that stays right on the money here somebody dies they fucking make another there's another one coming up after that and it's weird too median age here is 37.3 which is right on the money with the rest of the country and if you look at their ages it's just all averages perfectly on average with all the age groups no more or less old people no more or less kids this is your average town average town of average except there's more males than females 55 and a half percent male but there's logging work so there's a few uh sorry ladies but there's more males than females. 55.5% male, but there's logging work. So there's a few. Sorry, ladies, but there's a few. And not to say you can't log, but there's a few more male loggers at this point in time than female loggers.

It's not that you can't. You can do it. You fucking won't. You're like, I'm not fucking. That looks dangerous. And you're smart for it. Let them prove how tough they are. I'm going to get a better job.

So married here is way less than normal because a lot of single guys come here to log. So you get that. It's 42%. Normally, it's 50-50. So we get single with no children. There's more of those people. Single with children. There's more of those people. There's more single people.

I feel like this is a good place to get in a beer-fueled fight in a bar with a logger. You know what I mean? This seems like a lot of that going on. Population, as far as race goes, shocking, 87% white. It's fucking Wisconsin. I don't know what you expected there. So 87% white, 0.71% black. Not a lot of black people there at all.

0.0% Asian. Wait, 0.71? Yeah, not even 1% black. I thought i said 7.1 no no no not even one percent not even not even not even so there's like 16 black people here in this town basically are bringing up the uh no there's a 0.0 percent asian so they're definitely not bringing up anything uh hispanic 0.66 percent uh eight percent native that? 8% Native American. Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. And the people don't even know they're there.

They just haven't found them. Yeah. They're hiding out in the woods. They don't know that settlers have come. They still live. They haven't gotten into it. No, they're like, we heard this Lewis and Clark came by a little while ago, but we heard about them wandering around.

Haven't seen anybody since. It's thick woods. We don't know. Religion, 46% of the people here are religious so a little less 0.0 baptist look at that they don't play that shit in the no the in the canadian border or whatever the fuck it is the midwest i guess yeah 31.3 catholic so a lot of catholics here is about which is strange for the north it's yeah it's just it's odd it's mid north then you got your you got your Presbyterians and your Lutherans and 7.3% Lutheran, 0.0% Jewish people.

Not a lot of logging. No. Not a lot of Jewish mothers going, you're going to grow up and you're going to be a logger. You're not going to college. You're going to logging camp and And that's not a normal. The only logging is like they own the logging company. And they don't live anywhere near it.

It's not a big one. We'll put it that way. 0.0% Islam also up there. As far as politics go, 35% Democrat in the last election. About 62% Republican here. It's rural. And unemployment rate's a little higher than normal here it's almost five percent which is a little higher than the rest of the country median household income uh average is

about 57 and a half thousand here it's just under 40 000 for median household income jobs there is three times as many like forestry jobs as normal which makes sense here in the middle of goddamn woods more construction more manufacturing it's that sort of thing also more retail trade and restaurant work because it's a tourist area so you're going to get that uh cost of living now this is where it gets interesting uh 100 is a par regular average uh here it is 76.9 and uh it's low because of housing housing Housing is 45.2. God, I love that. $84,500 is the median home cost here. Yeah, $84,500 to live up in the woods. That's great. And yeah, have a girl fling your pool cue across the room with her thighs.

With a china. Yeah, this is amazing. Not bad. Houses here, you look at them, most of them are between you know 60 and 200 000 that's that's the range for the most part 35 of the houses here were built before 1939 oh that's scary that's a lot of old houses here a lot of old inventory they have not really built any new houses uh in like forever because there's no population yeah the population stayed the same so their infrastructure doesn't have to grow yeah You don't need any new houses.

No one's moving here. A lot of those old houses are scary. Oh, they're fucked up, too. Yeah, it's because one dude came in, made it like the way he wanted it. Then he sold it. And the other guy just put some other shit in there. Put some linoleum over that. Painted the kitchen avocado fucking green.

And then passed it on. And there's like eight different eras going on in one house. This room is mid-century. Whereas here, this on in one house this room is mid mid-century whereas here this is all 1977 in this room and yeah it's terrible it's it's really not cool it's it's terrifying really it's awful because you don't know if the shit's done up to code too oh who the hell knows jesus a disaster 19 homeowners permits oh jesus christ well if we've convinced you that the crandon wisconsin's for you then we have for you the Crandon, Wisconsin Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here is about $700 a month, which isn't that terrible.

That's pretty good. I found there's some expensive stuff and there's some very inexpensive stuff here. I found a two-bedroom, one-bath, 1,152 square feet. It's right by a lake. Lake view from your, it's right there. Awesome. $42,500. Why is that even on the market still?

Sounds fantastic. That's great. Yeah, it sounds great. I mean, I'm sure it's a dump also, but at the same time, it's right by the fucking lake. Go fishing. What do you want? Location. Three-bedroom, two-b bath, 1,664 square feet.

Decent house. It's in decent shape. $109,900. Yeah. That's excessively reasonable. Yeah. And then, let's say you want to stretch out. Yeah.

You're going up there and you're retiring after you've overseen an empire. I found a five bedroom, four bath, 4 bath 4200 square feet it looks like a fancy ski lodge this place like inside it's very like north woods lodge looking place fucking what fucking opulent uh like a chandelier made out of elk horns yeah that type of shit one million one hundred thousand dollars so nice place though things to do uh now there's the racetrack we talked about there they have the cram in the dirt racetrack also though in july at the courthouse is the kentuck festival so what how do you oh yeah how do you have oh yeah how do you in one that's like us having a californ californ californ festival uh it's let's let's read from the kentuck festival

new mexico fest new mexico effects effects a celebration of the heritage of the area's early settlers from kentucky arts crafts specialty foods including soup beans and cornbread finally a place for soup beans fuck we go all around the country and i'm like jimmy everywhere we go i just can't find any soup beans that i really want there they are that's terrible uh cornbread area merchants put their best bargains of the year onto out onto the sidewalks just there you go fuckers historical displays the day kicks off with a seventh annual 5k moonshine run walk wow the moonshine run how do you do that do you like get shit face and then go

run i don't know why i think it's not it's not discouraged it starts at 9 a.m though so you better get started that's what i would watch you have to take two shots of shine and run a mile yeah well josh jager at eight josh jager 84 at gmail.com is the guy to email to register for that if you guys want to get into that. I want to know what that's about. Also, dress the part, Jimmy. Kentucky Pioneer, Prohibition, or Moonshine Era, or even the humorous versions, it says. I don't know what that means. Could win you a prize.

$50 in chamber bucks will be awarded to the best-dressed vendor or attendee at the festival with judging on stage at noon. Fifty chamber. Not even fifty dollars. It's fifty dollars in chamber money. There's like you got to use that for the bulk trash. Yeah. It was like an ice cream shop and the recycling center takes those. That's the only places that takes that.

And the Army Navy surplus. They also take the chamber bucks. What the fuck, thanks yourself a combat worn backpack yeah yeah look at that kentucky pioneer prohibition or moonshine era or even the humorous version what does that mean i don't know just barefoot and fucking i don't know barefoot straw sticking out of your mouth and cut offs and fucking, I don't know. Barefoot with a washboard. Straw sticking out of your mouth. Cut-offs. Fucking jug. Cut-off overalls. Dragging a girl with two black eyes.

I guess. Crime rate in this town, besides that crime. Property crime here is about half of normal. It's pretty low. And violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount rushmore of crime is about one-third the average nationally so this is like a this is a safe little kind of pristine north middle of nowhere affordable affordable untouched by shit good place to go

sit and talk to dan akright about investment opportunities i don't know that don't exist you know how it goes. This Rolex is a fake. You know how that goes. What did he say? This Rolex is as real as whatever the fuck. Yeah. God damn it.

There was something else that was fake. You twist it. You twist it. You simulate kindling. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime,

part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller,

available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth.

With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx,

and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk about a murder.

Yeah. What do you say? I think it's time. We're busted. We're busted. It's podcasts. Let's talk about a murder. Yeah. What do you say? I think it's time. We're busted. We're busted. It's time. It's time. Let's talk about a murder.

Now, for this, we're going to head to the early 70s. Okay. We're going to go back in time. Now, we just described this town. Now, think about it in the early 70s. It's exactly the same. Still no stoplights. It's the same amount of people. Same amount of people no stop it's exactly the same place same houses just slightly different clothes probably

mildly updated like now they wear members only jackets and like 80s clothes but not because it's like nostalgic and like hip they just do it because they think that's in style now. Whereas at this point, they were wearing like, you know, like 20s, like flapper girl dresses. And zoot suits and shit, I think, was going on in the 1970s in this town. Little behind is what we're getting at. Or it's the typical 1930s garb from Kentucky. You can say just overalls and maybe a shirt. You have two pairs of overalls, the long ones and the short ones. Yeah, yeah.

Got my summer overalls. I got my winter panties. They're out there. Now, let's talk about some people here. Let's start out with a guy, and this is his name. Why? Okay. I have a thing about naming your kids properly and not just naming them like a dipshit.

You can name them some weird name that's fine whatever but don't name them something that's like that rhymes or don't name them that's awesome obviously junior is bad uh but this is the most i don't understand this man's name is paul paulie no paul legally that's his name oh boy he's got paulie is his last p-a-u-l-i-e that's his last name that's his last name his first name is paul oh jesus your last name's paulie and they said let's name him paul won't that be funny if he's paulie paulie that's hilarious right holy hell no don't do that to a child ever no you're gonna bad things are gonna happen you're gonna instill rage no he was made fun of every day. Absolutely. Every day at school. I met a guy named Richards Johnson.

Richards, first name, Richards, plural, with an S. Yeah, you can't do that. They went out of their way to name him Dick's Dick. Well, they wanted it to not be Dick. Well, it's Richards because that's probably like their grandmother's maiden name or some horseshit. That's just plural, Dicks. Yeah, they're like, well, if it's Richards, then Dick's not short for it, right?

No, no, it's fine. Yes, it is. It is. It's still Richard richard asshole so matter of fact his first name is dicks it's too paul paulie no that's wrong he can't be paul paulie no the only other people i know with the same first and last name are ricky ricardo which i assume is ricardo ricardo at that point and i think in teen wolf michael j fox's dad was howard howard i believe i think that's true matter of fact other, nobody's Paul Pauly in real life. So, Paul Pauly, he's

in the early 70s. He's in his early 20s. He is he served in Vietnam. This is an era where all these people were. Everybody we talk about, every guy has been in the military of some kind. They were in Korea. They were in Vietnam. They were in World War II. When did that stop? Vietnam?

No. military of some kind they were in korea they were in vietnam they were in world war ii when did that stop vietnam no i mean that's basically still going i mean when did when did when did that that era stop where like being in the military wasn't just like a thing you were expected to do do you know what i mean with us it pretty much was it was with us it's pretty much us it's everybody's who everybody who came back from Vietnam. They were like, fuck that. They were like, I don't want my kid to do that. Yeah, let's let's have a thing where my kid doesn't have to do that. Vietnam fucked up a lot of things.

They fucked up a lot. Well, World War World War Two was weird because those people came back and wanted their kids to go. Yeah, because we won. We won. Even though they had horrible experiences. World War Two, obviously. But there was something different in World War Two where it was like those guys went on their own they were a lot most people signed up oh yeah ran the sign up they had oh more people than they could do to do with

whereas vietnam they were it was romanticized it was oh it was because it was we were attacked we need to go fight back and go do it we're gonna come back and it's gonna be beautiful and the fucked up part was it wasn't even propaganda really that was true yeah i mean you can say whether roosevelt was baiting them and it was blah blah blah but i mean we actually were attacked and then they actually it wasn't just like attacked by like 12 guys in a cave either it was actually people coordinated whole countries that had paperwork that said we are declaring war on you now this shit was like a comic book and they said we need to mount a thing and they did it so they had a certain pride to it and then they wanted their kids to have the same kind of pride and then they went to vietnam which was not the same war at all and then and there was like weapons invented for world war ii that

like weren't even tested yet they're just like fucking running out there and see if it works they were inventing them as it was going so it was like yeah here they are go get it out and we did it now then with vietnam then it was like this is a whole different game because you can't even see them. Well, yeah. Also, there wasn't the same enthusiasm. That's the other point. It's not the same enthusiasm. The reason of it was, it's questionable.

Yeah. The people there didn't want to be there, most of them. If the people fighting don't want to be there, you're going to have a hard time. Absolutely. Whenever you force people to fight, they're not going to fight as well as they would if they were enthusiastic and were like, we're going to get those Japanese, see? How dare they bomb Hawaii? It's not a state yet.

We're going to make it one one of these days, but it's still one of our territories. See? It's ours, goddammit. It's ours, dammit, and we're going to take it back. You know how we know? Because we park boats there. That's right. They drop bombs.

Next thing you know, things are blown up and everybody's a lesbian. I don't know why that would happen, but I feel like that would be a 40s guy's fear. They drop bombs in the water. I don't know. It affects the supply and the food and everyone turns lesbian, even the fellas. I don't understand. It's very strange. It's fucking ridiculous.

Why did that come to me? I have no idea. Okay. So, Paul Pauly. So, that so paul paul we're the first one yeah exactly uh so paul paulie his father is a police officer too so his father's like uh you know it's that he's a cop and his son goes to vietnam and he signed up for vietnam paul paulie did and so it's a kind of that kind of traditional family and uh and a lot of times in small towns too in the in in vietnam it was a sense of pride for people to sign up and you know also it was

seen born on the fourth of july they were excited to fucking go some of the guys not all of them it felt like the government was on our side at that time well like that's what the consensus view was everybody was like well this was the end of that right that's my point like today we were attacked on our soil and people were like, I'm not fucking signing up for that. Yeah. It's because we felt like those people were not for us. Plus, we had no idea who the fuck we were really.

Who exactly are we fighting now? What's their uniform look like? What's the. Okay. And in what country. What flag do they fight under? They said they're here, but we're going. Okay.

All right. We'll still be there. Okay. All right. So what happens? Fuck that. So he, the son, though, he goes to Vietnam. Like I said, his dad's an Appleton police officer for 30 years.

He goes to Vietnam. He comes back, and he starts going to college. He goes to Nicolette College, which is in Rhinelander nearby here. And while he's there, he meets a lady. Hell, yeah. Who is one of his instructors oh hot for teacher fucking taboo this is good stuff here hey he's 22 and shit but it's still you know and he's like a war veteran yeah it's not exactly like she's you know plucking a bit more of a man

at 22 than i was i would say he's seen brains explode you know what i mean like he's seen way more than than most of the year i've been ain't no big 22 year old now yeah a 32 year old lady's vagina isn't gonna scare this not that it would scare anyone away but you know he's a young guy he's like oh i'm on board yeah i'm on board so yeah he meets a woman named sandra syrinsky uh who is his instructor it's his english instructor and uh yeah so he's oh that yeah, so he's... Oh, that's so dirty. He's got a thing. Yeah, this sounds hot. This is kind of...

This is fun. A little bit of Shakespeare being thrown about. Yeah, this is fucking... This is fine. You know what I mean? She's born in 1946. She's a little bit older than him. And, you know, they hit it off.

And like I said, he came... He was in war and shit. He comes back. So, you know, they hit it off. They hook up. This sounds like a dream. Yeah. Right? I mean, it would sound wonderful. They hook up. This sounds like a dream. Yeah. Right.

I mean, it would sound wonderful, except the problem is she's married. Of course she is. Yeah. She's not single at all. So that's the problem here. That's the issue. Her husband's not going to be happy. He's not going to be happy.

And Paul, he's not. Paul's not going to be thrilled. He doesn't know. Oh, he knows. But he likes her. And we'll talk about this whole thing. She's married to a man named Roger. Roger roger lee syrinski he's born in 1944 uh so he's two years older than her could have gone he could have been roger roger that could have been roger roger roger syrinski roger

and sandra sandra yeah so uh sandra syrinski and roger syrinski now roger to talk about his family uh we've talked about like world war ii before where we've mentioned like it's so funny too because we will say like hey listen military guys we know you're badass we know all that shit you know you didn't beat hitler though calm down just as a joke and we have military guys that'll email us not mad at all they're like dude totally you're so right you're fucking yeah that's crazy. You know what I mean? No insult taken. We have a story I found in the newspaper from 1943. Yes, I found, I love newspaper archives.

I don't even know where to find that. So I found a newspaper article from 1943 about Roger's dad. Oh. Just to tell you where he comes from. Okay. Okay, a background. This is what the article said. It talks about, it's about combat shit in World War II. And it says that some officer nominates side gunner Sergeant Henry A. Surinsky, who is Roger's dad, of Glenwood City, Wisconsin, as the, quote, airman's airman of the crew.

Surinsky earned his crew laurels on a mission in which the plane went in at medium height to attack what the crew thought was a merchant ship it turned out to be two small war vessels which sent up terrific anti-aircraft fire ripping through the bomb bay coming through the bottom of the cabin one shell went clear through dropping its firing pin piercing the top and exploding scattering shrapnel through the ship the crew recovered the firing pin for a souvenir. What the shit? Recovered a firing pin for a souvenir, see? And they gave it to a lesbian. Also, three Zero fighters appeared simultaneously.

Oh my God! The bomber was shot up badly. The rudders were only partially usable. One shell exploded almost in Serinsky's face. A piece gashed his hand and another tore a hole through his lip slamming him back against the ship's armor with terrific force syrinsky half conscious and his face a welter of blood merely shook his head dropped a piece of his goggles out of his eye and went back to his machine gun. Unbelievable. His fire drove the zeros from the crippled bomber's side.

Hank is amazing. Jesus Christ. Okay, no matter what. Nobody has done anything like that in a long time is what we're getting at. That's incredible. That's insane. That's what we mean about those guys were just a different. And also, the writer is amazing.

To use the word terrific in that context is fucked up. Yeah, it is. It's fucking awesome. Yeah, I love the vernacular from the 40s. Threw him against the armor of the ship with terrific force. With terrific force. No! Like a horny lesbian going after another lesbian.

It was terrific. It's insane that all my references have to do with lesbians, but I'm very interested in them. I don't know what to tell you. They're terrific. It's the 40s. I don't know much about them, but I feel like watching them would be a terrific experience. Yes. So that's where he comes from.

So he comes from solid stock. We'll say if that's your dad. Holy shit. You can't bitch. And also, you got kind of a high bar to clear. Yeah. You better be terrific. That only that.

Plus, you can't complain about shit. You can't complain that you don't want to do this. You can't complain that you don't want to do this. You can't complain I don't want to do chores. I'd slap that article down every time. Do you see what I did? You see what I was doing while you were a baby, you little pussy? You were sipping from your mom's tit while I was fighting off zeros. I'm pulling goggles out of my face.

I'm pulling shrapnel out of my eyeball so I can shoot more. Yeah, pussy. Right, not to pull this shit out of me to go I can shoot more. Yeah, pussy. Right, not to like pull this shit out of me to go climb into a bed, to get back on my goddamn gun and shoot zero. Yeah, not to stop, to drive to actually win now.

I can't just go, I'm done now. I've been hit. I'm done. No, I'm done for the day. That's what I would do. Me too. I've done for the day. I've been hit, you guys.

Who's shift change? I think it's in my mouth. I got something in my do. Me too. I've done for the day. I've been hit, you guys. Who's shift change? I think it's in my mouth. I got something in my eyes. Hold on. Anybody have some drops or something? There's something in there. I can taste it. By that time, they're coming in and they've killed us all.

That's the problem. Whereas these guys were just like, well, better get that goggle out of my eye and keep on shooting. They're coming in with a bomber and they're like, oh, that's not a whereas these guys were just like well better get that goggle out of my eye and keep on shooting they're coming in with a bomber yeah and then they're like oh that's not a merchant ship at all no there's bombs in our fucking cargo hold it's crazy jesus christ but that generation you can't do that with it's the same thing i've told the story if new listeners if you haven't heard my grandmother who grew up in italy nazi occupied italy during world war ii when she was a kid i would go to her and complain about things and one specific time I complained I believe it was about I couldn't watch TV past

a certain time in my room or something very very petty but I was super upset about it and I went to my grandmother thinking she would take my side and yell at my mom and be like you'd be nice to that kid and I told her my whole sob story and I I was super sad. She took a long pause, and she said, when I was a little girl in Italy, we used to hide in the hay so the Nazi soldiers wouldn't rape us. And I went, oh. All right, then. So go to bed, you little bastard. Yeah, the TV's not that big.

We'll talk about it later. We'll just talk about it. I'm good. I'm going to go back to what I was doing. I'm all right. Yeah, so that puts shit to perspective. You were just going to fall asleep anyway and leave that shit on all night. Yeah.

And no Nazis were coming to rape me. So that's a plus. There was zero threat of that happening in Wabingers Falls, New York in 1986. I don't think there was much threat of the Nazi soldiers coming to rape me. Perfect. At least not the soldiers anyway. Right. So Roger grows up with his dad and his mom there on a small family farm in St. Croix County. He was active in the 4-H club, church activities.

He's a singer. Yeah. I found a bunch of things in the paper about him winning contests in the high school. Yeah, Roger. Wow. In the high school, like, in the high school uh in high school like you know they would have like the you know choir shows and the river contest they would they would they give they still do that my daughter's choir does that so uh they do that

and at the schools and he would win like best tenor all the time he would always he'd win a lot uh he was very very much uh like just considered a real in the like a 1950s early 60s kid he was considered perfect upstanding you know active in the church at the 4-h club and all that shit lots of grease in his hair tons of no no grease he's a he's a he's a not a but he's not a greaser but they all did that yeah they all kind of did that you're right but he has a cardigan on instead of a jacket right so uh he's the other guys from the Outsiders, not the Emilio Estevez, Patrick Swayze, Rob Lohklan. He's got like three books and a belt slung over his shoulder. Exactly.

Now, I found a wedding announcement and an article about a wedding that happened in 1962 up in the Northwoods there. And it says, pink chrysanthemums and white gladioli decorated the altar uh mrs phil limberg was organist with roger uh syrinski as soloist he sang true love and the lord's prayer so he's alfalfa he's alfalfa little rascal he's just a good kid just a shucks kind of kid uh he joins the navy oh yeah uh in the 60s there uh kind of before Vietnam exploded kind of a thing, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. Oh, no, I'm sorry. Yeah, so he was early 60s. He did that.

So he spent two years over in the east, in the Far East over there, but not actually fighting in Vietnam. I think he was in Okinawa for a while. All the places we kept bases after World War II. Typical Navy ports. Yeah, that's it. So he did all of that. He ends up returning home to attend the University of Wisconsin-River Falls, where he met Sandra in 1967. Got it.

So he meets her in 1967, and can I picture him with black frame glasses? You know what I mean? He's got that sort of thing. It's 1967. They go out for about a year and then they get married in 1968. May as well. So that's what you did back then. I did find, though, he has some problems.

He's not as squeaky clean as you think he is. No. 4-H club, Navy, you know, singing tenors among the chrysanthemums. It's not all chrysanthemums and gladioles jimmy we'll put it that way there's other things yeah i found that he and they call he he had to pay a $29.50 fine good lord that's steve in 1966 for quote illegal truck speed oh so speed not not trucker speed right they may they mean he was going a little fast in his truck not math no no he didn't have illegal trucker speed only 29 20 28 50 there or 29 50 so illegal truck speed there not not okay uh then 1967 good lord he paid a fine of

65 dollars wow to the town of Longwood for speeding. Again. He's got a lead foot. Listen. Lead foot. We've covered some bad people, Jimmy. Vile human beings. Remember that? By the way, Vile Human Beings is going to happen. It's happening. We're working on the artwork now,

but we have the social media domains, so it is at Vile Human Beings on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. We own it. You can follow it now. That's our real, nobody put that up, have the social media domains yeah so it is at vile human beings on instagram twitter and facebook we own it you can follow it now it is that's our real nobody put that up that's our real uh that's actually us that's uh we're gonna put up artwork soon and uh it's coming so uh check that shit out buckle in more details later it's gonna be amazing all people speed it's just speeders from the uh north woods that's all it is. Speeders from the Upper Peninsula. We're going to have Jaywalkers from the Montana region.

That's going to be a good episode. North of Kentucky, South of Toronto. Oh, boy. All of them. All of them. No, it will be considered vile human beings.

But this here, two speeding tickets in two years. I don't know what to say about this man. I'm ready to throw away the key right now. So February 1968,

Roger and Sandra get married. Surinsky, as they're married, they end up having three kids later on. He was a speech therapist at the Wabino Leona School District there. Also at the and at the Headwaters Achievement Center in Rhinelander. He and his wife here, he and Sandra built a home in Lake Matanga, I guess. Sounds right. Sounds right. They built a home there.

So they built, it's 1968. They get married. They have kids. They build a home. Like this is very. This is very leave it to beaver. Small town America, you know, that sort of thing. He returns to college to work on his master's

degree god jesus yeah it's it's just getting so driven he's very driven well i mean his dad fought off the you know i mean if that's your dad yeah either you're gonna go either you're gonna be a complete just bum that will do nothing or you're gonna have some sort of drive you're either gonna live up to it or you're not even gonna try there's no in between yeah you either heard what he was saying or you didn't. Kind of a thing. You either read that article or not. Or missed it.

Yeah. So he ends up graduating from graduate school. He's a speech therapist. They have three children, Justin, Heidi, and Travis, which just sounds very nice in middle America there. heidi and travis which just sounds very you know nice in middle america there uh mrs uh uh sandra here was a becomes a uh a full-time faculty member at the nicolette college that we talked about she is uh that it's about 1972 she becomes a full-time faculty member so everything's going well for them yeah uh 1972 when she gets that job right around that time uh she files for divorce from roger why uh which is strange but then later on in the year she withdraws the petition for divorce

so if you have just problems it's if you're a young couple with three kids and you don't know they knew jobs and pressures and who knows what happened all she knows and maybe she's just like maybe i want to try something else i don't know so yeah if this is what i want who knows who knows uh but one thing she did not lack for is trying quote something else yeah uh especially with dudes yeah she liked the fellas old sandra so uh sandra was paulie paul paul paulie's english uh literature instructor at nicolette college uh there and uh but over a period of years this isn't the first affair she's had is the thing over a period of years. She's like notorious for this.

She's like William H. Macy's wife and boogie nights. Like literally like my wife's the driver of the cock in her ass. And he has to say it with an ass in her car. Yeah. He has the same reactions, though, because for the most part, William H. Macy just would turn around. That's this guy. That's what he does he just he just fucking is like he wants to keep his family together as he keeps telling everybody he wants to he has three kids he's very concerned with that he's

very traditional they live in the fucking north woods of wisconsin small town america's dad's mr you know it's a the airman's airman right everybody he just wants it to be together he's charlie bailey gates for me myself and i right yeah he's trying hard here to go away uh so uh he finds out though that sandra had a series of extramarital affairs uh all of which he was aware of yeah he's aware he ends up finding out about all of them she would tell him about him because she felt bad about it because he was a nice guy and she would feel bad she's not a terrible person yeah she just has this whatever this is that she needs to do uh apparently the affair started in about 1973 they the problem is they were there with a range of people it was everybody from students to other faculty members that she worked with to a 55 year old ex-convict who had just gotten out of prison and was in

in enrolled in the classes as some like court ordered you know continuing education thing uh you know type is a dick yeah i mean this guy was more than 20 years older than her and just gotten out of prison and he so roger was a little upset you know about it and i assume sad uh he also knew of an affair that she had with another instructor at nicolette which you don't want someone to be no not there workplace yeah and uh she he said she told him about the affairs uh they went on a teacher conventions so they'd go away to conventions and she'd have an affair with this guy and a couple of drinks here's something nice about herself all of a sudden yeah and so she also

well i mean they were like kind of planned that that's when they hooked up i think he was married too so they were like we hook up and we have conventions and and then she had a lot of other uh boyfriends around also road gash uh yeah she had a lot of road yeah so uh roger says he wasn't angry about the affairs he tells people uh he he consistently tells everybody that his aim is to keep the family together uh but he says he's just grows frustrated that he can't make any progress with his wife no matter how he reacts no matter how you know caring or or whatever he is she just keeps going out and having affairs and that's never good obviously for a relationship so uh now two of the students here uh at the time in 1976 comes around late 1975 early 1976 and she's having an affair with two students at the same time oh my god as two of her students

at the same time uh she has a sexual relationship here with Robin Jensen and Paul Pauly at the same time. Now, Jensen considered, like, he thought of Pauly as a rival for her. Yeah, he wanted Sandra, this Jensen guy, Robin Jensen, and he saw Pauly as... Can you imagine? This is crazy. I'm going to get that married that married teacher having an affair with two of her students no she's gonna be mine like no no she's not no she's not gonna be anybody she's hers yeah and she's gonna just do what she feels like yeah she doesn't have time for you because she is

hers she's got plenty of other shit going on did you just get out of prison because that's a that's a that's another thing so uh yeah so paul paul Pauly and Robin Jensen are considered like they're kind of have a rivalry over this whole thing, especially from Jensen's point of view. Jensen is, you know, kind of he's got that eye on Pauly like he fucking bastard. You know, you're doing so great. Take him out, woman. You got four people with motives right now. Oh, it's all good.

No, no. Roll. This is amazing. This is such a story. That's what people are like. They offer their research help and they're like i'll help and i'm like you can't write it though i'd have to do it anyway because i know i know how i want it to go and you know you don't know what i want damn it so 1976 okay this is he's been married to sandra for eight years they have three children and she's had innumerable, just a voluminous amount of affairs here. Roger is completing his master's degree at this point in communicative disorders, which

is a field that he worked for years prior when he came to school, and Sandra's still working at Nicollet College. school and uh sandra's still working at nicolet college uh late 1975 uh they uh they have a an informal separation agreement they agree to separate but it's not paperwork involved here got it so informal um so uh they made like an agreement though because they're both like educated people they're not just like well i'm leaving i don't know i'll talk to you in two weeks like they actually like wrote out a thing guy working on his master yeah that's what i mean and she's a you know college graduate very intelligent they're both very intelligent people so they set out this thing uh they're not able to see each other for the next month that's part of their agreement

they're going to separate not see each other not you know muddy the waters of anything like that i can do that with three kids that's that's's a tough thing um so they're gonna try though they're gonna do this this is from febru late february into march of 1976 okay is when they're talking about doing this uh so uh on march 2nd 1976 roger is driving from river falls to chicago yeah uh and he's decided that while he's doing that before he goes to chicago he wanted to stop and see sandra uh doesn't ask her though he hasn't seen her in a couple weeks the agreement is he's not going to see her for a month and so he doesn't tell her he's coming he doesn't ask her or anything like that he just goes i'm gonna stop by and see her i miss her uh so or whatever it is you know he could miss her or he could say i want to see what she's up to or both i mean who the

fuck knows you nobody knows anybody's motivations when it comes to shit like this when you put jealousy and love and weird shit like that in the mix people are you don't know unpredictable you have no idea what people's thought processes are like you can't be like well he's obviously coming from here it's like who knows where he's coming from? So he he ends up detouring off his route here to drive by. He drives by his home, which is their home. And in March 3rd, he drives by his home that he's living in now since they're separated. And then it's late, late night March. So it's late March 2nd, early into March 3rd.

He's on his way to Crandon. He is tired, obviously. He said he had a long week of final exams and he hadn't slept a lot. He's been grading finals and doing shit like that. So it's been it's been a long, long week. He drives through Rhinelander, which is the town that Nicollet College is in, and he sees his wife's car in Rhinelander. It is parked in front of the Wonder Hotel, which doesn't sound great, which funny that while the worstelander it is parked in front of the wonder hotel which doesn't sound great um which funny that well the worst part of it is he knows for a fact that that's where paul paul he

lives oh so he knows that paul paul he lives in this hotel and he knows his wife is their car is outside so the man lives in a hotel he lives in a hotel god damn it and he's your student it's not great this is not something where you want your kids involved with. No, no, no, no. This is fucked up. I'd say we're going over to the Wonder Hotel to see Paul. I don't think she's taking the kids over there. It's my weekend.

We're at the hotel. I prepared a beautiful dinner for you and the kids. It's wonderful here at the motel. All the KFC you can shake a stick at. Oh, tons of it. Tons of it. You know, that Kentucky fried chicken. I thought you were going there. I waited for it. I'm like'm like all right if he's not going to take it i'll take it

all the kentuck you can handle so you're not going to take the shot from three i'll pop one from the corner i'll give a fuck i'll throw it down come on man Come on, man. As the thing goes astray. Hey, that's right. So he sees her there. Now, let's kind of take a break. He drove through.

He's had a long day. He's tired. He sees her car parked outside the hotel. Yeah. Now, what has she been doing today? Really? You find out. You got a video?

I do, actually. I have a surveillance video I found from an archive. So Sandra and Pauly spent the day and evening of March 2nd together. So they were together all day. They had sexual sexual relations more than once that day. And then they ended up they were at his hotel. And then at about midnight, they drove to her home there, you know, because it's not a hotel. It's less sleazy. uh there you know because it's not a hotel it's less sleazy uh so uh sandra and paulie uh were walking up toward the house uh they get out of the car and uh she is walking like ahead

of him because usually when you're the person with the keys right you walk in front yeah that's just how it works you know you don't show up at the door first and then what are you gonna do open the door now sidestep it yeah you need yeah you walk up to the door and then be like i can't do shit now whoever yeah whoever has the end of the line for me i'll hang back and when it opens weird fight and you try to get the spacing so it's just enough to as it opens that's when you're getting there so you're not standing behind them pressuring them otherwise you get up there and they're like move out of the way i gotta get back down the steps because these are not built for two people you walk side by side because it's a fucking entryway yeah you know how that goes uh so they're walking up to the door she's in front with the keys all of a sudden out of nowhere out

of the darkness it's past midnight in the north woods so i mean it's even in a full moon it's fucking dark yeah there's no nothing up there uh she hears out of nowhere, Hey, Pauly, and recognizes it as Roger's voice. So she turns around and sees a flash and sees Pauly jump up into the air and fall to the ground, yelling no as he does it. She runs up to Pauly and goes over him,

looks up and sees Roger standing there with a shotgun in his hand. So she watched Roger shoot Pauly pretty good. So Wyatt Earp. Yeah, very Wyatt Earp. over him looks up and sees roger standing there with a shotgun in his hand so she uh you know watched roger shoot paulie pretty good so why yeah very why it hurt but he's still alive at the moment on the ground struggling uh she tried to go in and call the ambulance but he grabbed her by the scarf that she was wearing and dragged her back outside toward pa in the yard. At this point, Paul is still bleeding and moving and alive and struggling. So he's trying to do all of this. At this point, Roger looks at her and said, quote, I'm sorry, not Jesus Christ.

Paul, Paul, Paulie looks at Sandra and says, I'll never touch you againhuh which i've learned my lesson is what he said while he's got a chest full of pellet right that wasn't salt rock yeah no but he actually looked up and said i'll never touch you again uh like i'm good now uh so she then again tried to run in and call for help but uh roger was uh not having it roger goes in he's extremely upset like she's rarely ever seen him before uh he rips the phone out of the wall and uh just you know messes up the other phone disables that and uh beats the living shit out of her in the kitchen and then just sits down at the table with the shotgun and sits for a while where the fuck are the kids we'll talk about that now kids are not here okay kids are probably i assume with a grandparent or something. Maybe they're with Hank.

Let's hope they're with Hank. They're so safe if they're with Hank. Oh, Hank's not taking any shit. Even if some zeros come up on the side of the house, he's going to take care of business. They'll throw hammers at him. Oh, absolutely. Nazi rapists? He's got it covered.

So now that's what she saw from her side. Okay. Now, Roger, he says later on that when he saw his wife's station wagon parked at the Wonder Hotel in Rhinelander, he says he experienced a, quote, buzzing feeling. Yeah. Which is, yeah, adrenaline. You're upset. And rage. Yeah. So what he did to try to null this out, he went and got a six-pack of beer. Hell yeah.

And fucking drank the whole six-pack of beer as he drove from Rhinelander to Crandon. Drink about it. He's like, drinking and thinking. It's like the Nas lyric. Hell yeah. Doing 90 on the Franklin D. Roosevelt, no seatbelt, drinking and thinking. Shit, yeah. That's the fucking.

That's my kind of man. That's the lyric there. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case,

covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a

bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So he drives there to the house. He ends up going into the house. This is before they arrive. He shows up. He goes into the house uh uh he ends up uh he ends up going into the house this is before they arrive he shows up he goes into the house he says he played piano for a while in the house which should calm you down i would say playing piano or unless he's a fucking fucking way he's just in there playing great balls of fire over and over again trying to have some fucking dracula Dracula theme. Dun, dun, dun, dun. The Jaws theme. Dun, dun, dun, dun.

Yeah. Or the Halloween, or the Exorcist. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. He's just doing it. No. I pictured him just playing some classical music. Yeah, some Tchaikovsky. Yeah, he's going to just...

No, something lame, though, like Mahler or something awful like that. Some bad shit like that. So, anyway, he plays piano and he says, while he played piano, he thought about his wife and children. So he sung, Our house is a very, very, very fine house. A couple of times.

And then he cried. He cried. Start singing Oh Susanna. Yeah, that's how it goes. So at this point, he said, as he's got a buzz going, he's playing piano, thinking about his kids. He sees car lights.

At this point, he says he left the house and walked outside to a big oak tree and he hides behind the oak tree. By the way, when he pulled up his car isn't in the driveway. He parked his car down the block on the block. So he was trying not to be seen. So that's that's the thing that's weird there. He does that. So, yeah, he ends up seeing a car. He says he saw a car stuck near the foot of the road, and he heard a man out by the driveway, by the road in the driveway.

He said a car was stuck, and he heard a man outside swearing is what he says. He says at that point he returned to the house and got a gun from the gun closet. He said he didn't know who it was swearing is what he says he says he told the uh he says at that point he returned to the house and got a gun from the gun closet he said he didn't know who it was swearing uh so then uh he says he came back and he said all he knows is he heard an explosion and saw a flash and a shadow and he says the next thing he knows uh next thing he remembers his wife was telling him that he had just shot paul and that he was replying to her that he didn't believe that he did. That was all he remembered. He said at that point he thought about suicide.

He said he couldn't, you know, he just didn't know what to do. He said when he saw Paul up close and he saw kind of death by shotgun looks like he said he changed his mind about suicide at that point because he said that doesn't look fun at all. Also Paul was shot in the chest and arm and shit like that. He's a mess.

That's not where you shoot yourself when you're committing suicide. I think he still just went eww. I think it was just a eww. I'm going to look way worse. I'm going to go for the head. I feel like he just went, ew. I think it was just a, ew. I'm going to look way worse, so I'm going to go for the head. I feel like he just went, gross. Gross. I don't want to be all gross. Doesn't look cool.

I like the shirt. No, never mind. So it's at this point where the Crandon police chief, who is an LW Dodd is his name, he receives a phone call. This is 340 in the morning. He receives a call at his home and it's roger roger says quote bill i need you out here uh this is roger serinsky i just shot and killed a friend that's what he tells him uh so this is you know interesting to tell the sheriff

right here uh so uh yeah he he's the sheriff is obviously interested the sheriff says quote is he dead which is a fair question yeah there was no there was no conclusion in that sentence sir no it's that you just said you shot a guy and said killed a guy so he says is he dead roger's response is quote he better be it happened over an hour ago i left him out there to suffer and bleed to death so I would hope he's suffocated in his own blood by now, right? He's choked on his own bile and blood, I assume, by this point, correct? I would hope so. It happened an hour ago?

Jesus Christ, what the fuck kind of answer is that? Why are you calling me just now, Ron? Where have you been, sir? I think we're a little late on this one. Well, I shot him. I went and played some Stephen Foster.hen foster i had some stuff going on yeah played beethoven's fifth i had that frederick fucking chopin fucking chopin he hates the nazis though no wagner so anyway whoever that is hitler's favorite composer okay

that's the guy i imagine he had one yeah he did wagner that's the guy so uh uh now he shows up dodge sheriff dodge shows up here and he says he's got to be like what the it's 3 40 in the morning he woke up in a what the hell's going on now driving his car through the dark and he's going to show up to this mess holy shit he says he found the syrinski seated in the kitchen when he arrived uh he said uh an open single shot 12 gauge shotgun was on the floor and uh the telephone was ripped from the wall and also on the floor so the scene is pretty you can see what happened you can put two and two together if you're an experienced officer here pretty quick uh he roger refused to make a statement

even though he already made one uh but he doesn't want to make an official one now that once is before, you know, once there's right spread and that sort of thing. He says he's already contacted an attorney. And so Dodd said that he arrested Roger immediately because he couldn't be like, well, all right. Looks like my work's done. Call me in the morning. We'll see how this works out. This one's solved. Good night, everybody.

Yes. All right. Good job. Hats off to everybody. good night everybody yes all right good job and hats off to everybody now while he uh en route to jail he's being transported to jail in the squad car the squad car gets stuck in the snow jesus christ so this is interesting yeah so what do you do when you have a prisoner and a squad car stuck in the snow there's no he went by himself he didn't call another officer he literally heard there was a shooting here person with a gun who knows what's going on he just showed up by himself at four o'clock in the morning knocking on the fucking

door wow that which is crazy like as far as police procedure goes you bring eight guys with you at that point there's we know there's a shot person and definitely a gun and probably a dead body because it happened an hour ago someone possibly unstable and armed right let's bring everybody instead uh let's bring a couple at least he just goes by himself picks him up takes him to the station i'm gonna wake it listen i feel like shit at three three it's three o'clock in the morning i don't wake anybody else i know i don't anybody else feel like i feel right now bob's kid had a basketball game last night i know it went late you know so oh they just they didn't even have time to make any this had some

kentuck fried chicken on the way home and i I don't know. Coffee's not even made yet. You know how it is. I just figured I wouldn't bother nobody. They get stuck in the snow. So Dodd tries to push it out. And he can't push it out by himself. So he lets Roger out, uncuffs him. And this man helps push the car out of the snow.

To be arrested. Listen, Roger, I know I just arrested you for murder. And you ain't got no reason to help me. But you want to get out here and give me a push no no problem sheriff and he gets out and helps give him a push wow i assume they get out of the snow he recuffs him and fucking drives him to the this is incredible what a weird right away we're in excessively weird territory here uh autopsy dr richard morehead uh is the pathologist he the autopsy revealed that paulie bled to death yeah bad way to go because it was over time uh from a shotgun wound in the abdomen oh no bled to death from out from a gut shot yeah this was not an organ and nobody hit the heart or

anything he bled out uh he said that the shot shot was fired at a level plane at a distance from the level planes important remember plane at a distance from the level plane's important remember that at a distance from 3 to 25 feet so it's leveled at him yeah like you hold it like you hold it from the hip boom pow uh he identified a shotgun shell wadding and pellets uh that he removed from the body he said paulie would have died within an hour after he was shot so he would have laid in the yard in the freezing cold fucking bleeding out which is terrible i would think an awful way to go uh also uh some authorities say that he died earlier and they're they're trying to trying to figure out when he died exactly but it wasn't immediately and it wasn't great and but no longer than an hour i've seen it

no it's bad i saw it on the online bad. Bad shit. An Arabic fella got shot in the leg because he wasn't- Arabic fella? What are you, 80? You sounded like an 80-year-old man right there. Now, sweetie, I'm calling a waitress. Sweetie, could you come here for a minute? Let me tell you about this Arabic fella. I'll take another coffee, darling.

Thanks a lot. Gentlemen, I don't know. It was in another country. I think it was in the Middle East somewhere. Where the Arabic fellas are. Yeah, where the Arabic fellas live. All of them hang out. It's either there or New York.

Most of them hang out there. And his mother was protesting with the police not to arrest him, and he didn't want to be arrested. And they shot him in the thigh. Jesus. And hit the fucking... The femoral artery? Yeah. Oh, Jesus.

And it's spouting. Oh, yeah. It goes and he was he was going in and out of consciousness on the ground he'd like be out and like it looked like he was dead and then he'd like sit back up and start screaming it was fucking horrible horrific yeah i'd like to do that in the yard when it's fucking and there's snow on the ground it's early march in wisconsin in the north woods it's cold outside in the middle of the night belly james it's awful man on the snow too because you're cold enough if you're bleeding out and you in Wisconsin in the North Woods. It's cold outside in the middle of the night. Belly, James. It's awful, man. On the snow, too, because you're cold enough if you're bleeding out and you're lying in the snow, which is not good.

Yeah, so let's find out what other people think about this whole thing. Let's do a town reaction, kind of what small town murder is about here. He's described by others as a constructive citizen. He performed volunteer work in the community. citizen. He performed volunteer work in the community. He aided handicapped children in several different programs, both in the military and when he got home. That was one of his specialties.

Even Sandra, Sandra's my wife, his wife is Sandra. Even Sandra told the police that he was a quote, very, very kind and gentle person to others, if not to her. So he's a dick to me, but to everyone else in the world, he was a quote very very kind and gentle person to others if not to her so he's mean he's a dick to me but to everyone else in the world he's nice to right uh several

witnesses uh uh people later on now would tell police that uh because they asked they would start asking around they're asking people what's the background here and they find out the oh she's having an affair with this one this makes makes more sense. And everybody else. Yeah. And then they would find out that Roger knew about these affairs. Because they thought he must have just found out about it tonight. He drives by, sees the car at the hotel, comes here. It's not like that.

They talk to people and they say, well, what was his reaction? Because they want to hear that he was running around everywhere in front of people going, I'm going to fucking kill that bitch. How dare she cheat on me? I'll fucking shoot whoever she's fucking cheating with. I'm going to fucking kill that bitch. How dare she cheat on me? I'll fucking shoot the, whoever she's fucking cheating with, I'm going to shoot him with a shotgun in the stomach. Never happened. That's what they want.

Instead, they get several people saying that Roger's reaction to Sandra's infidelities were too good, like too good of a reaction, that he failed to express even indirectly any anger to her or the guy she was with. He just takes it as his own failure? He just takes it William H. Macy style and just was like, whatever. Paul, Paulie, and his roommates one time,

Roger went to Paul's house one time, or his room, I should say, at the Wonder Hotel, went over there to ask him to leave Sandra alone. Not threatened him, didn't say, say hey leave my fucking wife alone he said i'd like to ask you uh it's like a human being if you would please stop going out with my wife uh it's for her own good uh she's going through a weird time right now she has three kids and we're trying to work you know stuff out and no matter how much cock she asked i understand she's gonna want cock. You're going to have cock. That's the thing.

You're going to have so much of it. Her name's Paul Pauly. You're slinging dick, I feel like. So you're going to have the cock. You're a 22-year-old American hero. Keep it to yourself. Just keep the cock in the pants for a while. She said it's for her own good,

just until we figure out what's going on. Not until you never see her again, whatever. Just until we figure out what's happening and let her clear her head. So his roommates named Roger, quote, St. Francis because of his forgiving attitude and lack of hostility. They go, it's just fucking St. Francis over here. Goddamn sweetheart. He comes over.

You're fucking his wife. Yeah. And he comes over and is nice to everyone and politely asks you to stop. That's pretty goddamn weird behavior. 12 pack. And he's like, here, these are for to stop. That's pretty goddamn weird behavior. Brought a 12-pack and he's like, here, these are for you guys. That's weird behavior. Yeah, I brought it. I don't even want to have one.

I'm not even going to make this awkward to where I'm sitting around drinking with you. Just take this. Enjoy it on your own time. I believe Kentucky Fried Chicken delivers. I'll make an order. I'll put an order in. It's on me. We'll sit down and have a couple of legs and a breast over this bad boy.

Talk about it. Wow. You down and have a couple of legs and a breast over this bad boy talk about it wow you know here have a breast matter of fact eat this breast and and suck on this instead of my wife stay away from my wife put these breasts in your mouth not my wife's jesus have these thighs not my wife i think that was kentucky fried chicken slogan for a while actually i think late 70s not my wife's i believe it was maybe early 80s i'm not good with dates but possibly i think it was squeeze these thighs aren't they nice aren't they nice yeah that's what it would be i believe every time so yeah uh there's also they talked to a virginia radke who is uh a recreation director at the Headwaters Achievement Academy,

and Timothy Popp, who is a speech pathologist and a friend of Roger's. They both say that Roger had talked to them about his marital problems previously, and they said that he did not appear to be angry and that he expressed the desire only to keep his family together. His only desire was to keep his family together for his kids now there's another theory here this is fucking amazing uh the reverend david kellen uh who as the reverend at the methodist church in crandon he said this is where the syrinskis went to church so he knows these people he didn't just know from afar they actually knows them he said he quote began

his own investigation of paulie's the church is investigating this what never mind the police god wants to know who killed paul paulie and why god damn it the lord is asking me and i'm gonna find him an answer so he's what the fuck no we have cops the church does not investigate murders you guys got fingerprinting brushes and shit when does that happen when did you guys get handcuffs hold on on the back of the pew there is our forensics laboratory that we have set up uh you got a beaker in the rectory holy water station there what the fuck are you talking about your own investigation ridiculous so he started his own investigation of paul paulie slaying because he thought the kranen police had overlooked things so he said no no what do you overlook nothing to

overlook it's a really basic thing here three people all accounted for yeah one of them's dead one of them's got a gun so but we'll talk about it one of us fucking both he said that it was to the newspaper now he said this that it was his quote guess that mrs paulie or mrs paulie that sandra mrs syrinski actually killed paulie that's his theory why no reason why because it makes more sense to kill the person you're having an affair with rather than your husband to shoot him in the front yard when he's drunk after you know no so uh yeah wow uh why do you think this and he's like i don't ask questions i don't ask questions do you know my job title is i don't ask questions i give i give give answers i give answers but don't ask to see my work that's

my job yeah why because i know that's why i have faith that she didn't ask to see my yeah don't ask to show the math that's gonna be a we're gonna have a problem then so there'll be no cross multiplication so march 25th 1976 is his preliminary hearing and they talk about him you know hiding behind a tree and blah, blah, blah. Police in this hearing say he stepped out from behind the tree as they approached. The couple approached the house. He shot Pauly from a distance of three to five feet. He said that that the Sirinsky and his wife then went inside the house where he beat the living shit out of her.

She suffered black eyes and a skin. When she when Dodd showed up, she suffered black eyes and a skin down when she when dodd showed up she was not looking good she looked like she had been through some shit yeah and uh yeah so uh now roger he was in jail under two hundred thousand dollar bond uh ended up having his bond reduced to fifty thousand dollars and being allowed to put up property. So they called it a $50,000 property-only bond, and he is released from custody, which seems very light to just let a guy out. He's just had a raid shotgun murder. Let's keep him calm for a little while, okay?

So he's just out and about. That's in March. Nothing ends up happening until his trial in October. So he's hanging out for six months with residue on him. So October 76 is the trial. It took eight hours to select a jury. Because I guess they insisted that the defense insisted that potential jurors be quizzed privately in judges' chambers about what they've read or heard about the case. Because this is, like I said, a rural area. It's very remote. It's the only incorporated town in the county. quizzed privately in judges chambers about what they've read or heard about the case because this

is like i said a rural area it's very remote it's the only incorporated town in the county so it's there's not a lot it's only like 4 000 people here right 2 000 so there's not a lot around it so everybody knows everybody knows so that's that's the problem here uh so all but two of the 24 member jury panel indicated that they actually had knowledge of the slaying. Only two people had never heard of it. A total of 99 Forest County residents were summoned for jury, but the judge excused nearly a third of them immediately because they knew the Surinskis. Wow. Not just I heard the case.

I know them personally. I've dealt with it. It's a small town. So, I mean, you're going to run into everybody, especially if you work at schools and shit you're gonna run into everybody at some point a third of them a third of them a third of these people uh so uh yeah they had opinions about about guilt or innocence and uh you know that's they said that it would affect their objectivity yeah because they couldn't do anything else uh so uh they talk about uh whether he's going to plead guilty or not guilty for mental defect and all that sort of thing, or for innocent for that reason.

They talk about all this shit. Now, the judge says that the trial could take about a week for everything, including sentencing. And if he's found guilty and he intends to hold court on Saturdays and at night. So he's not fucking around. We're going to get this out of my courtroom. We're working this overtime yeah uh the jury is sequestered in an area motel until the completion of the trial i hope it's the wonder oh that'd be great that'd be great can you imagine i'm in paul paulie's room i'm sitting in his puddle look at that jesus that's still moist

still a little moist in here and sticky i gotta call housekeeping so uh so uh the testimony begins uh after that seven men and five women on the jury uh the district attorney kevin kelly uh he had an opening statement he said evidence will show that uh that you know this was after the sexual relations and it pissed off roger and uh and syrinski beat his wife ripped a phone out of the wall when he tried to call for help and let Paul die out there he didn't might not have died and they go

through all that now the defense the defense's main thing here at the trial is they want to throw doubt upon everything all the facts of the killing basically

anything that Sandra says in her story of we came home I turn around saw Roger shoot him all that they want to say all that's bullshit even though there's a lot suggested by physical evidence to that they suggest that another person

in their theory Robin Jensen the competing lover the rival is the one that shot her that shot Paul so that's their theory and they said that he shot paulie from the second story of the house so okay their theory is with a shotgun he's fucking sniper rifle on somebody their theory is he went inside when nobody was home right to wait in there i

assumed to bang sandra i don't know and then saw them coming in saw that she was he was with paul and decided to do some sniping from the second story. With a shotgun. With a shotgun. And somehow make level entry wounds. So, you know, it's an odd theory. It's a reach. It's a bit of a reach.

It's a real magic pellet theory. Yeah, they challenged the prosecutorial evidence on the angle of which the projectiles traveled and uh and pointed to these a spent shotgun shell i guess they found a spent shotgun shell somewhere in the second floor of the house that's what they're going off of but that might have been on on fucking opening it could fly out he might have taken it hunting one time i mean that's a good point it may not even be the one it might be from 10 years ago we have no idea it's you know how much fucking shotgun fire goes off in the north woods of Wisconsin? I mean, seriously.

You're right. It's so much. There's shotgun shells everywhere. So, yeah. So they also attempt to discredit Sandra's testimony. And they focused on her uncertainty as to whether she saw the flash of the gun when she was facing the house or facing Paul. to whether she saw the flash of the gun when she was facing the house or facing Paul, which doesn't matter because unless another person came, shot him, and then from the time it took her to turn from the house to Paul, switched places with Roger real fast and put the gun

in his hand, it doesn't really matter what she saw. Doesn't add up much. No. So the defense said they did succeed in showing that Jensen and both Robin Jensen and Sandra made inconsistent statements about how often they'd seen one another since the killing. They lied about, I guess they've been hooking up since the killing. She's like, well, I guess Paul's dead. I'll just fuck this guy instead. So they've been saying they were lying to the police about who benefits from him being dead.

Exactly. Whose dick is wet? Whose dick has got it? about who benefits from him being dead exactly whose dick is wet whose dick has got it so they were they were kind of going on that theory of uh because they found inconsistencies with the private investigation of that they lied to the police about how much they see each other because it doesn't look good if they're seeing each other and they probably said hey the prosecution probably said if you could don't hang out with that guy please that looks bad for us uh but uh they finally get a witness to testify that robin jensen was with him on the night of March 2nd into March 3rd.

So he has an alibi that he wasn't on the second floor sniping with a shotgun. Now, Roger testifies on his own behalf. He's a well-spoken, upstanding looking dude. So he's going to try to use that to his advantage. He testifies that uh he did not know if he shot paulie they said did you shoot paul and he said i don't know that's what he said it's not it's not gonna do it no he said quote i've never been a violent person i've always worked to create and rebuild i just don't know that was his answer in court you destroyed and

tore down yeah they were like well you can do that in prison i hear you can rebuild a lot of shit probably i bet there's a lot of stuff to build in prison just things yeah you know shelves little rocks out of big rocks and paint some stuff i assume license plates no there's stuff in there to do is what we're saying you can really find something build a cake for all i give a fuck knock yourself out now uh he is found guilty of first-degree murder here. Now, he's found guilty. No death penalty on the table here. Now, one of the jurors, an Alton Johnson, he was one of the men in the jury.

He said the first ballot they took after two and a half hours of deliberation showed 11 jurors in agreement of guilt and the 12th juror abstaining. The juror said that Johnson johnson said the jury felt a quote tremendous amount of pressure uh he said it made him nervous to pass judgment on someone like that which i would too uh it's weird i don't want to real 12 angry men it really is he did say those jurors got along well during the trial and uh they were shut off from the outside world he said there was never any real arguing and uh you know said all the jurors did work hard on the whole thing so he's found guilty now before sentencing he's trying to say that he's insane there's a now he has to have a sanity hearing based on that the whole time he's been saying he's insane but we'll talk about all this

now during the sanity hearing they really kind of break out uh they it's this is when they start talking about because he's trying to show i'm such a perfect nice guy yeah everybody says i'm a super nice guy this is not in a pattern of my behavior super aberrant behavior lost my fucking mind mental defect didn't know it was going on it happens the only thing that could make sense rather than a pattern of behavior that escalated to this. So they want to show, the prosecution wants to show, that he's not such a great fucking guy, after all. That he does a lot of shit,

and he's not as perfect as everybody makes him out to be. They talk about that he also often beat his wife, and we'll talk about her, she'll talk about that. That he also had affairs with other women oh on the side they find proof of that which was serial speeder we already know that we know that he cannot slow down in his truck or he's on trucker speed either one he smoked marijuana my god a college professor smoking marijuana in the 70s no No, no. How could he? How could he? Is he from San Francisco? Jesus.

Oh, God. The bastard. He's out there smoking that wacky tabacky out in the Northwoods. Good God. Those girls in the flower dresses. Dateline. Crandon, Wisconsin, 1976, where a professor has been smoking the grass. Odd thing is it turned him into a lesbian.

where a professor's been smoking the grass. Odd thing is, it turned him into a lesbian. It's the only side effect. He was a little hungry and just wanted some pussy. Hungry. On that carpet, you see. On that carpet, he's going to munch it up. I don't know about you. There you go.

So he smoked marijuana, sometimes drank heavily. And yeah, so that's what they want to show. Sandra is one of three states witnesses in the sanity phase of this. She testifies that Roger had beat her approximately 25 to 30 times over the eight years they've been married, which is one is excessive. But 25 to 30 is steady. That's a lot of fucking beat over eight years that's like four a year yeah it is four years every three months no wonder she's fucking other dudes she's yeah

somebody's nice to me well in 72 when she filed for divorce she probably that would have been good to stick with that if he's beating her up and everything else this is awful uh so he says many of the beatings occurred when he was drunk. He wasn't sober. He wasn't violent. She said the beatings have become more violent in recent years with affairs and things, too. She also said she had an affairs with not just Robin and Polly, but now she has, to be honest, a number of students. She said it was kind of a lot, like a bunch. a number of students she said it was kind of a lot like a bunch uh she said uh she believed that her husband had at least two extramarital affairs one involving a woman that he worked with and another involving a woman in river falls that he was like helping with something uh helping her

kid or some shit like that where he attended college uh now she was crying during the testimony she said her husband had uh asked her not to testify anymore after he was convicted. He said, look, I'm convicted. You did that. Can you not fucking put me in anymore? But she was the chief state's chief witness here. She said she witnessed the whole thing. She told about getting beaten and kicked once.

Once she one time, she said she talks about bad things that Roger's done. Yeah. And one time she said she talks about bad things that Roger's done. She says one time she accidentally drove her car into a ditch in the snow. As they did. And he beat her and kicked her for that. Good Lord. She also told the jury that her husband, Roger, once shot and killed a dog near their home because the dog was hanging around his retriever, which was in heat.

And he didn't want to keep it. To keep it from getting pregnant, he fucking killed it? Yes. Now, he says that he says that he, that wasn't for that reason. He says that that dog was jumping on one of the kids and wouldn't leave one of the kids alone and was trying to bite one of the kids, so he shot it.

That's what he said. He said he was protecting the kids from a stray dog and shot it. And she says it was trying to fuck the golden retriever, so he shot it. Either way, don't shoot people's dogs in your yard. Let's not shoot dogs. Let's all not do that. Call the owner.

Call somebody. You know everyone in town. Isn't that Frank's dog? Yeah, he's got a gray one like that. Sure, let's call Frank up. Don't just shoot fucking dogs. You know the dog catcher. Just call that guy.

Yeah. She did say that her husband is kind and gentle around everyone else on earth uh except for her basically is what she said uh now she doctors testified saying that he has a mental condition known as a dissociative reaction uh which could which could involve amnesia dissociative means you've you've separated from your body right uh so he has a reaction of just dissociating from himself. Is that like they call it a PTSD kind of thing? No, no, no, no.

That didn't exist back then. They're just saying they're just saying they don't even know. They don't. All they call it is a dissociative reaction. So his reaction to something made him dissociate from the world. That's all they're saying. That's weird. They said people, persons suffering from such conditions.

This is 1976 psychiatry also do things completely out of character. They said that he had a personality that's conducive to such a condition, according to Dr. Albert Lorenz. He's always striving. He wants to be in control and holds in his emotions, which I guess those are the bad parts of having World War II dad tell you to shut the fuck up and your lucky zeros aren't coming at you right yeah so uh he uh this doctor compared uh roger's actions to quote a boil bursting and he believed uh that it could

also happen again oh the boil may refill you never know if it's possible bursting once it could happen again uh also testifying for the defense was a go. Polder, who said that he testified for the state saying he didn't think Roger's behavior resulted from a mental defect or mental disease. He felt that Roger could appreciate right from wrong, even at the time of the shooting. And also the sheriff testifies that Roger was calm and composed when he arrested him in his kitchen. Yeah, it's been an hour. He shot a guy. guy he beat up his wife it's all out of his system sobered up a little bit all done yeah that six packs out of his system now he's just sleepy a little hungry eventful evening he's like listen i helped push the car out of the ditch can we stop at denny's like seriously i'm fucking hungry let's just come on i hop even i don I don't care. Whatever. Something's open.

So October 7th, 1976, sanity hearing wraps up, and the next day is going to be kind of the very end of the hearing, just closing arguments and judgment on it. So instead, he's home, by the way. He's been found guilty of murder, but he's still out on bail. They can't hold him now they have not pulled him in on bail and as a he's uh he's out on bail until sentencing is that how that goes not normally okay normally they put you convicted fucking hold them you're gonna be sentenced to at least a day a lot of times people will ask for that they ask for bail during sentencing and if it's like a white collar crime or if it's something like that or if it's whatever, they usually will get that in that case.

But in murder cases, you usually never get that because the penalty is so steep. You're worried about this person running away. Right. You're worried about. He's got nothing to lose. I mean, he could run away. He's going to take off. I mean, you're right by Canada.

You're right fucking there. He can drive 45 minutes and be in Canada. So I think that's... Or he's a convicted killer. He's proven that he will kill. Yeah, and you just let him out. Let's not let that guy out. Or he could try to kill himself, which is what he does.

Okay. He attempts suicide with an OD of sleeping pills at about 8 a.m. at his home. The police are called and paramedics are called uh and uh you know they they save him yeah they revive him uh and then call him up the next day yep back in court yeah next day they had court again and they wouldn't uh his his attorneys asked for a continuance and they said fuck no he tried to kill himself that's his problem we're all here everyone's here we've all cleared our schedules fuck him now he obviously has a uh has a uh a uh right to be present during all of this but they said is real his ass in here and sit him down uh and they literally did that they uh they didn't

release a whole lot of details except that he consumed sleeping pills and his stomach was pumped he was free on the fifty thousand dollar bond uh after this though his bond is revoked and they put him in custody and for his own safety i guess uh his attorney moved for a mistrial after learning of the suicide attempt no that's not how that works you could just cause your own mistrial uh the judge said nah we're good i think we're going to continue this that's fine so uh the next day he's in court and uh they bring him in in a wheelchair yeah uh to do the you know the end of the of this whole thing he's probably still groggy he is he's very groggy he's very sleepy

still he's gonna be sleepy for a while just a long time it's gonna hang on a bit oh he's gonna be dying so uh closing arguments uh were delayed two and a half hours after they had to wait for roger to be brought from the hospital via ambulance to the courtroom he was seated at the defense table next to his attorney they removed the wheelchair before from the courtroom before the jury entered because they're not giving him any sympathy right you know it didn't work for tupac when he was So I don't know why it would work for him. So Roger appeared to be asleep as his attorney began his closing statements to the jury.

No shit. Was he snoring? He's still, huh? What now? What happened? Where am I? Who's dead? What?

Did I shoot a guy again? No. Okay, good. Last time that happened. I don't know. So he, Jesus Christ, a witness in the courtroom said to a newspaper reporter, quote, he appears to be out of it, which I would say is accurate. He took sleeping pills, which are designed to put you to sleep.

Like I've taken NyQuil and been groggy till like eight at night. Oh, yeah. That shit is a nightmare. Anything that makes you drowsy keeps you groggy and drowsy for a long goddamn time. Yeah, take like three indicatables before you go to sleep and you wake up and you're like, I'm still tired. And in the 70s, that shit was just way strong. Oh, yeah. We got to make sure we knock these fuckers out.

Yeah, this is hardcore sleeping pills. Geez, they got to take one of these and be able to fall right asleep because they're all on speed. Right. This has to knock them down from their speed high. This isn't just like a regular sleeping pill. This is a really take them down. So a police guard was established at his hospital room where he has to be when he's not in the courtroom.

They take him back to the hospital via ambulance. He's got medical personnel standing by and shit. Also, the judge denied an 18-point motion for the mistrial filed by his attorney. The jury is not told about the suicide attempt. They're going to decide sanity, and they're not told about that, to not garner sympathy or also to not have that affect their thought of his mental condition. That's also beneficial to him. It's one of those 50-50, let's just not tell him about it.

It's beneficial to both. Let's just leave it alone. Let's leave it alone. October 13th, by the way, he is found sane. Yeah they say no he's fine you're good uh october 13th 1976 is sentencing uh now this is amazing the reporter there's a reporter that that covered this trial and uh he was saying that it was you know a very sensational trial for a small town because it was all about you know affairs affairs and this teacher with her students. Small towns in the 70s, this is some salacious shit.

Everybody's going to be talking. And they all know these people. Imagine the gossip going on at the fucking post office or wherever the hell, at the Crandon dirt track or wherever the hell these people are hanging out. The Kentucky Festival. They're going to have a man. They're going to have people drinking moonshine. Oh, Jesus. Out of fucking gossip that fuels.

Hey, you ever listen to somebody in a bar talk about their life. Yeah. You don't know about. Yeah, this is this is everybody knows it. And this is actually interesting. Yeah, this is fascinating. And then we went to a craft fair. Me and my wife.

Fuck you. This is interesting interesting have another shot of shine tell me more about mary's new shoes jesus christ almighty yes your children are very intelligent thank you and so cute they're adorable so that's what's going on here everybody must be talking about this this has to be the just the talk of the whole area this is not what else is there to talk about people in kentucky talking about this this has to be the just the talk of the whole area this is not what else is there to talk about people in kentucky talking about they're all the way down to kentuck so so uh at the end of the trial the uh at the end of the sentencing here the judge announced to the court that it was quote the most bizarre case i've ever presided over everything that could have happened happened now it's not the most bizarre case we've dealt with way more bizarre than this uh but it's fucking weird

and interesting i'll tell you that much somebody else could have shot him that could have been more fascinating and uh something else could have happened that would have been very yeah not everything but it still is pretty yeah lots of stuff could have happened a stranger could have been involved right nothing about and that could have been this could have been a serial killer stopped by on the way down from that's a twist that's a twist uh but yeah uh so uh what they do this is this is during sentencing he's been found guilty of first degree murder then found sane and now they're doing sentencing rogers attorneys ask for probation what they ask for probation seriously they asked for fucking probe just send them home did he pull his balls

through his zipper to ask for that because that is the most ballsy thing i've ever heard probation it's your honor you you i would like to bring your attention to these uh testicles hanging out of my zipper i placed them upon the table here because i'm about to ask you the most fucking ballsy thing you've ever heard it's not even first degree murder probation just let him out you know we don't need to put him away what are we gonna do with him hit him with some shoplifting uh penalty uh wow uh so yeah probation his attorney said that he was over roger was overwhelmed by a number of circumstances including his wife's extramarital affairs at the time of the shooting, and that Roger is an outstanding young man whose promising professional career would be destroyed by a prison sentence.

Well, yeah, because he would be in prison and not working because he's a murderer. When you murder people, you can't say, but it's going to affect his job. Negative. They don't care. You killed a guy. He doesn't have any job now because he's dead. on his linkedin ah jesus this is gonna look so bad permanent record you say oh jesus christ nobody on tinder is gonna want to fuck him now are you kidding me uh so he's gonna have to go to bumble to get laid oh it's gonna be the worst

all the way down to kentuck and old k Kentucky is going to have to go or they don't mind. So his lawyer also told the judge, Judge Martina, that a constructive use of probation was, quote, peculiar, peculiarly indicated, which I don't know what that means in the case. And added that, quote, nothing of a creative or constructive, constructive nature could be done for him in a prison situation to which they said, yeah, that's not what we're looking for. We don't care about that. We're not looking to let her rehabilitate. We don't care. We're not looking at what's the best environment for this flower to grow. We're just going to throw him in prison because he shot a guy in his front yard for fucking his wife.

It's pretty basic. That's just how we roll here in Wisconsin. We just were like, hey you shot a dude well you can go to prison now not looking to get the most out of every prisoner let's sit every prisoner down and talk to them and find out what their abilities and skills are so they can blossom like a rose like we don't have time for that that'd be great if we could but i don't think the system is set up for that council you think this shit's crazy wait 20 years and watch this documentary on Netflix. See what else the Wisconsin State Department of Corrections does. No shit.

Jesus Christ. You're going to be blown away. Who else doesn't get probation? Oh, man. He's still got Brendan Desi. So, all right. He says, quote, I know the attorney still. I know the remorse this man feels over what he did

so he's super remorseful and he's got good stuff to do uh now roger also spoke in a brief statement he said quote i do wish to say i feel i need help and do not want my life to end as a non-productive servant of the people i want to be a productive servant of the people. I need help. No shit? What gave that away? The shotgun? As your ears were ringing from the blast, did you go, I might need help? This is weird. Most people don't do this.

The most self-serving statement, I, I, I. Oh, yeah. How about, I've got three kids, Your Honor. Didn't say, I'd love to take care of my children. I'd like to help raise them and guide them in the right way i feel terrible i'd like to help make up my shit for society i apologize to the paulie family i feel bad that they lost their son none of that to my wife i'm sorry i've punched you yeah a lot so many times so many times i need help and i do not want my my life to end as a non-productive servant the people. I don't want to be just sitting there. The prosecutor says,

we don't give a fuck what he did. No prosecutor says, uh, he asked for imprisonment, which he had to be like, do I have to like reiterate that we want to put them in jail? Yeah. Like he got to,

I thought that was just a given considering first degree murder. What's the sentencing guidelines there? Anywhere from probation, anywhere from, yeah yeah come in every once a week take a piss test to life in a fucking maximum security like what's the anywhere from put on a vest and clean the freeways what the fuck are you kidding this shit yeah wow doesn't it start at some place it has to start at least 15 or something there has to be a minimum guideline no probation is minimum here apparently in the 70s in wisconsin probation it's a little bit of

community service wow uh now he says the attorney here kevin kelly says that uh he needs to be imprisoned and that to do otherwise would quote make a spectacle of the court and compromise the interests of the people and i'm surprised we're even talking about yeah are we and are you and but he killed a guy all right did we show we showed you the pictures you guys saw that shit right should we see if his lawyer is sane too yeah this is fucking crazy maybe it's all him and rogers is just the sane one maybe his lawyer killed him maybe his lawyer killed paul polly new theory new theory and that's why he's asking for probation because he feels terrible this guy's getting railroaded. He's like, you know what?

I feel guilty. So the judge weighs in on this, and the judge has a final say here. The judge says he observed here that Roger had a, quote, Jekyll and Hyde personality, which is not what you want to hear from a judge. No, that hurts. That's bad. He says that Roger, during his trial testimony, characterized himself as a concerned family man, which was contradicted by his wife's testimony that he had beaten the living shit out of her 25 to 30 times,

including right after he shot a man in his front yard. I love how judges, because they watch the whole thing, and you know they build all this stuff up, and then they have like a final word at the end where they just have this scathing i saw it all and this i'm gonna break it down to three sentences of what a piece of shit you are and i went to law school and did well there so i'm good at this that's what it is it's jerry springer with a lot of grace it's the final word and he sits there and he tells you what a terrible piece of shit you are and how nothing that you said is true and there's no argument there's no cross-exam it's just no no shut up i'm the judge i've literally judged this to be true judging by judging by my title

i am allowed to do that so fuck you and if you say anything worse i'll just give you a worse sentence right yeah don't piss me off give you more time then he says quote your own psychiatrist dr albert lorenz has said that if you were not confined, this would happen again. He's like, that's not helping you much. I would be remiss. This is good. This goes on for a second. I would be remiss in my duty to the public if I turn this man loose after a conviction

for first degree murder and in the face of the testimony of his own psychiatrist. I have lost some of my faith in probation which permits convicted persons to beat the rap he says at that point uh then he talks about he says quote at no time during the course of the nine day trial did this man come clean for anybody he told an improbable story of amnesia but it is a fact he was able to remember when he wanted to remember talking to the psychiatrist. You, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison. Oh, Jesus.

Life. No parole? It's a weird thing. Life is like until you're dead here. It's just life. There's not a life with or without. So just life in prison as opposed to probation. I can't believe the judge even acknowledged. i've lost my my faith in that actually so i can't really i can't i was gonna

i thought about it you're kind of being nice at that caught me three years ago i would have done it but i even burned a couple times i'm not gonna lie to you i've had some bad relationships in the probation system and i'm just not gonna do this uh it's like used cars you know you buy a couple and then they don't work oh i got burned listen i'm gonna go with to do this. It's like used cars. You know, you buy a couple and they don't work out. Oh, I got burned. Listen, I'm going to go with brand new this time. No more Kias. No more used Kias.

So, life in prison. I'm going to send the Manitowoc police over to his house. We can't find a RAV4. Let's figure that out. There's got to be bound to be one there somewhere in the woods. So, I feel like the lawyer then said, after he said, you sir may fuck off, life in prison, he said, with the defense counsel, please approach the bench. And he just gave him the back of his hand from download.

How dare you? Baff, are you out of your fucking mind? You ever come in my courtroom and ask for probation for first degree murder, I will beat you to death with my gavel and get away with it because I'm a fucking judge. I will judge myself sane. All my judge friends will be like he asked for what what get the fuck out now you better beat him to death with your gavel you beat him to death right you started with his nuts so he could feel it though don't just hit him in the head knock him out you

want to get him in the balls drop him and then just wail on him because they were out through the zipper anyway yeah on the table they had to be which is it it easier for banging. It's like whack-a-mole. Whack-a-ball. Unbelievable. So July 1st, 1978, he's in prison, and Sandra divorces him while he's in prison, which, I mean, it seems a little late. It seems like that could have happened at any point after the shooting. I would have paid to be the guy that serves those papers, though. Oh, God, yeah. That would be awesome.

Yeah, just walk. I've served papers in prison before. Like that, though? To people that are there for life? Yeah, there for life, there for whatever. You just walk in. It sucks because you have to go to prison. They take you in and you have to go, here you go.

And most of the time, they're like, cool. They're just happy to see an outside person. So they're like, oh, cool. How you doing? Yeah, how's it going? The warm out? They're just happy you're there. They just put out a new album.

Usually nice to you. Here's your papers. So, yeah, here you go. So 1979, he has an appeal, obviously, here. Appeal based on new evidence. We have new evidence. This alleged exculpatory evidence is the supposed knowledge of, okay, here we go here. This is wild.

This is a guy's name, David Kellen and Daryl Wilson. They were defense witnesses. Apparently, they had supposed knowledge of Sandra Serinsky's automobile having an electrical short circuit. OK, they say in the papers here. Thus, it appears the evidence was not within the exclusive control of the state. And consequently, there may have been no duty. It's basically they're saying there's a Brady violation here, which is the state had exculpatory evidence and did not share it with the defense. So that's like what Adnan was going for.

It was Brady violations, and there's a shitload of them in his case. But that's what they're going for here. Brady violations were other people knew of something that had to do with her car and that made them suspect there was something that he's saying was exculpatory which doesn't seem exculpatory enough based on the fact that he shot a man and then called the sheriff said i shot a guy and then came in there and he was the phone out of the wall a guy shot and his gun on the ground that sort of thing here uh they said even if a violation of the state's duty to disclose existed, a new trial is not required since the disclosure could not have affected the verdict because it wasn't a big fucking deal. It wasn't it wasn't anything that would, you know, change or innocence.

Yeah. It said that the the electrical short circuit does not support the defense's assertion that someone other than the defendant was involved in a struggle with the victim of the homicide immediately prior. He also, Roger, further asserts that because of this Kellen guy's personal knowledge of the existence of an electrical short circuit did not surface until the second phase of the trial, the sanity one, it constitutes newly discovered evidence justifying a new trial so they're trying to really find some loopholes here and they say no no no that's not going to happen they said the requirements for granting a new trial on newly discovered evidence are that the defendant suggests there are several sources of reasonable doubt which a jury may have ignored in order to reach his verdict the defendant uh they said the defendant is correct in the state's case rested in a large

part upon the testimony of sandra uh although the defense attempted to cast doubt on her credibility her testimony is non is not incredible as a matter of law it's not just they tried to like say she wasn't reliable because she had affairs it's like it doesn't mean she can't witness a murder like it doesn't matter who she fucks unless the there's it's amnesia jizz there's you're fine you know so uh yeah they all roger doesn't have that stuff no he doesn't have amnesia jizz he's well maybe that doesn't even have amnesia just percolating for too long and that's what happens uh the jury they say chose to believe her uh roger is correct in noting that the state's firearm expert could not identify the gun and shells found at the scene

as the instrument by which the victim met his death. That's because it's a fucking shotgun. That's why Omar in The Wire, not that you'd watch it, but that's why Omar shoots people with a fucking shotgun. That makes sense. He has pumpkin balls. Omar sounds like a smart man. That's the thing. No fucking ballistics on the

shotgun. That's the whole point. Although they know dead drug dealer with no more drugs and shotgun shells and shotgun plus slugs That's an M.O. That's the thing. No fucking ballistics on the shotgun. That's the whole point. Although they know dead drug dealer with no more drugs and shotgun shells and shotgun plus slugs. That's an M.O. That's probably Omar at that point. So he carried. Yeah. I carried other pieces, too.

So they said also the state's expert could not detect any traces of powder on the jacket worn by the victim at the time of the shooting. Now, I don't know. That's just saying that he was more than a few feet away instead sorry instead of three feet it was six feet either way they were both in the yard and fucking shotgun was discharged uh they said nevertheless the jury could believe that the gun was the fatal weapon yeah because they're they're saying that the the in their appeal they're trying to say well, the ballistics guy couldn't match the gun. And then, you know, there was no traces of powder on the guy.

So it might not have been him. It might have been a guy shooting, you know, from a second story window or from across the street. Because there's lots of other people mad at Paul Pauly for fucking this guy's wife. They all want to kill him. Weird. So, yeah, they said that Roger contends there was a considerable confusion about the angle of the entry of the fatal shot, establishing that the gun may have been shot from the second story of the house. They said the defense attempted to create such confusion, but the jury could have disregarded it. They said that Serinsky here, Roger contends that Robin Jensen could have been in the house and shot Pauly.

There is credible evidence that Jensen was elsewhere and there's no evidence that he was anywhere in the vicinity except in this theory. So they said, oh, also under a grant of immunity, he testified that he didn't shoot Paul Paulie, even though he could have said yeah, I fucking shot the shit out of him. That's right, goddammit. He had immunity.

Didn't matter. State's case also rested on the telephone confession to the chief. The defense council attempted to show that, that the chief did not really recognize Roger's voice on the phone, but the, but they were unsuccessful in creating a reasonable doubt that it was anyone who's right.

But Roger, if they would have showed up to Roger's house and nobody would have been there, then it could have been somebody else. But he said, I shot a guy at my house and I'm here with a shotgun. And the guy showed up and he was sitting there with a shotgun and a dead guy. So even if it wasn't him, it was him.

So they also claim the defense that several trial court rulings on evidence are erroneous and they warrant a reversal of his conviction. First was the admission of photographs of the victim, which we all they all try to do that, and they all say, nope, that's totally admissible. It doesn't matter that they're bloody. You should have made them less bloody. Shouldn't have killed them so bad then. That'd be nice. And the pictures would look nicer. Yeah.

So they explain that they were visual aids to enable the jury to understand the facts of the case. Next, the case obviously is next objects to the trial courts having allowed a witness over objection to comment on the pleasant, helpful character of Paul Pauly. They didn't want anybody to say he was a nice guy when they attempted to submit rebuttal evidence that he wasn't a nice guy. The trial court reconsidered its original ruling, admitted its error and instructed the jury to disregard any evidence of Paul Pauly's character because it doesn't fucking matter anyway. There's nothing in the record to indicate that the instruction was not significant to cure any prejudice. He also takes issue with the testimony of his wife Sandra concerning

tearing the telephone off the wall claiming that her testimony violated the defendant's marital privilege set forth. Wow. Because they were still married. Yeah, but that's if you can't be forced to say. She wasn't forced. She chose to. She did it fucking voluntarily.

And also it protects, well, here we go. The defendant correctly cites this for the proposition that private communication within the meaning of the statute includes expressive acts which are intended to convey information of a privileged character. The conduct in question by this case cannot reasonably be considered to be prime uh primarily communicative by the violence and the purposelessness uh purposeness purpose jesus christ fucking james of his actions roger clearly intended to stop his wife from summoning aid not to impart knowledge or

information made privileged under the thing so that's what it was that's what they're saying uh she can't you can't just not testify because it's bad for you uh so he also complains the trial court should have admitted the following three documents here uh they said that uh this would have impeached the credibility of jensen and sandra a letter written by jensen to Sandra after the shooting, a letter by Sandra to Roger, and the district attorney's notes of a conference with Jensen. They said, we don't agree with the assertions here. The inconsistencies in the stories

have been talked about, and they've been basically parsed out, and we're fine with them, and so is the jury. They said it wouldn't impeach their credibility of any kind. It's just people make mistakes and details all the time. There's never been a perfect murder case where nobody made any mistakes or people haven't forgot what color shirt a guy had on.

It's the way it goes. It's years ago, usually. Yeah, that's the thing. And this was, yeah, they said none of the three documents is so persuasive, so unambiguous or so relevant and material. Relevant and material, we can say that the trial court abused its discretion, not allowing marital privilege. Also, this is one here that the jury had no other option but murder. There was no lawyer to ask for a manslaughter or anything like that.

He argues the verdict submitted to the jury with respect to his plea of not guilty by reason of mental defect was erroneous in form and substance. The trial court submitted a verdict which consisted of a question inquiring, is the defendant, Roger Serinsky, not guilty by reason of mental disease? The defendant urged the court to use the following language. Did the defendant, Roger Serinsky, at the time of the commission of the murder have to use the following language, did the defendant, Roger Serinsky, at the time of the commission of the murder, have a mental disease so as to lack substantial capacity to appreciate the wrongfulness of his conduct, blah, blah, blah.

The defense contends that the form of a factual question avoids the possibility of what might be considered inconsistent verdicts by the jury, first finding him guilty, then finding a finding of not guilty. As they said, you're not going to have a jury say you're guilty then finding a finding of not guilty as they said you're not going to have a jury say you're guilty of first degree murder then have a sentencing phase where the only thing they can say is not guilty of murder by insanity you're saying you're not going to ask a jury to find a guy guilty one day and not guilty the fucking next day that's not reasonable which is a fact they they had no other options for that uh Yeah. So the other part is, is he saying that they didn't have any chance to give him a different

to get him other than first degree? In my opinion, that's just the fucking state being like, we got him. Fuck it. Well, no, that's true. But they're saying that's pretty brave, too. He's going to say that if his lawyer would have submitted that the jury would have probably given him a lesser, a second degree or something that wouldn't have netted him life so his jury or his uh lawyer could submit that and ask yeah that's what they're going so uh yeah basically here his chief argument that he gets a new trial is the

interest of justice is required because the jury was not given the option of considering a verdict of manslaughter okay uh his brief said that that uh he has no right to a new trial on this ground because there's no request for an instruction of manslaughter that's been made by the defense counsel, and it explains that he had not authorized his counsel to make such a request, but they say the trial court suggested the

submission to the jury of instructions relating to manslaughter and second-degree murder, and he, Starinski, did not wish these instructions to be given. Well, then it's on him. It's kind of on him. It's a little weird here. He contends that the evidence at trial,

including the evidence of the relationship between Paul and his wife and his knowledge of all that and his emotional state and everything like that, if you add all that up and then properly instructed the jury that it would have been manslaughter instead of murder okay that's his theory here all right you add everything up we deny everything but if you actually allow it then they should have come up with this anyway so after all that they say appeal denied go fuck yourself fantastic uh affirmed now october 1982

uh uh donald and helen paulie yeah parents, retired policeman Donald Pauly and his wife Helen here, they get a letter accompanied by a newspaper clipping. They've retired down to Florida at this point. And the headline is Freedom of Possibility for Imprisoned Slayer. And they're talking about some sort of reduced sentence for him. Now, the father here says, I just couldn't believe what I was reading. We were just shocked. It was basically he's reading the pardon advisory board just recommended to Governor Lee Dreyfus that Roger be set free. They're saying now the former the acting governor already commuted his sentence just now before this to a 99 year term.

So he commuted it from life to 99 years okay which is not really anything great but it's a start yeah and might get you out in 50 yeah you know uh so that was in 1979 after the appeal failed and now the pardon advisory board is telling uh this governor that his sentence should be reduced to 10 years which would make it time served. Done. Done. He could just walk out of jail, they said. If that happens, he would have served just over six years of a life term.

So the prosecutor in this case said that it would be a gross miscarriage of justice to set him free. But the Pardon Advisory Board has received 59 letters attesting to Roger's good character, including from a local Republican congressman. Oh, boy. Even sent a letter to the judge and to the Pardon Advisory Board. He's got so many people writing letters saying he's a good guy. These are all dudes that had their wives cheat on them. I understand, man. I understand.

They said, what if they asked the the uh this had all happened and they didn't even know what was going on down in florida the paulie's parents so they asked him what the fuck would they would have if they had asked you your opinion what would you have said and he said i'd have said that once again the criminal seems to be winning i'd have said that once again the victim and the victim's relatives seem to be the forgotten ones he says please understand i'm happy that roger is being rehabilitated but i'm not happy that he's about to be released possibly after only serving six years they wrote to the governor and to the pardon advisory board he said he'd go to wisconsin

to talk to them if need be he wrote to his u.s representative down in florida wrote to friends and policemen in appleton where he worked elsewhere, asking them to urge the governor, send as many letters as they got to say, don't let him out. They said they think of Paul all the time and they pray for him. They say it's something you'll never, ever get over. It stays with you forever. You wonder where he would be now. What would he be doing?

Would he have a family? That's fucking brutal. So that's 99 years. December 30th, 1982, Governor Lee dreyfus commutes his 99 year sentence to 40 years so it goes from life to 99 to 40 they're trimming the fat they're trimming it uh he explained in his handwritten decision that he reduced the sentence in order to keep it related to similar kinds of sentences and commutations in the past i don't know what that means he's just trying to keep it with standards.

The judge at the trial, Martin, now, he said he wrote a letter saying the jury, in his opinion, might have found Roger guilty of a lesser charge had one been submitted by the attorney. So they're saying that basically, they're trying to say that just because he had shit legal strategy, it wasn't an effective assistance of counsel, he didn't want this, but just because a non just because he had shit legal strategy, it wasn't an effective assistance of counsel. He didn't want this. But just because a non-lawyer had shit legal strategy doesn't mean that he should be deprived of the legality of the whole thing.

So they said that there was they're trying to basically figure out if this is going to get him out or what it's going to do. It reduces at this point, the 40 years says it doesn't do anything for his parole, but reduces his mandatory rate date for release from prison to approximately 18 years and three and a half months from the date of the sentence. So his new release date would be 1995 here rather than never. This is horrible. So they were more that the pardon board wanted less than that. One member recommended commuting the sentence to 13 years, which would have meant immediate release, like right this fucking minute. And then the remaining people recommended a commutation to 15 years.

They held two hearings, the second to take additional testimony prompted by public reaction to the news of the first. action to the news of the first and uh syrinski's mother and several other people who've known him since his imprisonment testified in flavor of favor of clemency and argued that he was rehabilitated no longer a threat to society uh his former wife sandra was remarried at this point yeah uh she testified during this that she remains afraid of roger for herself and her children of course uh which i don't blame her now she's seen him shoot a man with a shotgun so you know and then feed away from shit out of her afterwards uh they said uh if you're capable of not calling for help for someone right and then leaving that dude fucking snow for three for an hour shooting them is one thing that's terrible but then to not have any remorse for to that to go oh fuck i gotta that's you're another level that should like that's something

that should reset your rage yes you've taken out your rage on the target oh no now we went and beat the shit out of her too and ripped phones off the wall and everything uh the advisor board questioned the sentence they said several members believed that a manslaughter verdict would have been more appropriate and the jury should have been given more choices uh they said that uh clemency's been opposed obviously by a lot of people uh a state rep here from appleton called it a brutal homicide which was viewed as an isolated incident of lawlessness and violence and that's simply not true yeah is what he said now november 10th 1984 uh uh we're talking about this uh in 1983 roger was written up for a major breach in conduct in prison. He was driving off.

Apparently, he's transporting prisoners in a van. No. He's driving them. He's like the honor prisoner. They wanted to let him out, for Christ's sake. They got him behind the wheel. They're actually driving. Apparently, he drove off his designated route in Madison while transporting prisoners.

He's running. He's running from a minimum security prison camp or work study to work release assignments. And as a result, he was put back in a medium security prison. So dumb thing to do. But at this point here, it doesn't matter. All that he figures behavior is not perfect. this behavior is not perfect uh uh they announced that uh fred uh hinnicle chairman of the state parole board said that afternoon that the decision was made to parole roger wow and uh the order was signed today he will be uh he will be serving he served eight years and one month of a life

sentence wow for shooting a guy called blood and leaving a guy to die. They contacted the father, Donald Pauly, Paul's father, and he said that it would, quote, just would be too hard on him and his wife to fight this release. He said he just doesn't have the energy. They fought it vigorously in 82, and they said they just don't have the energy to do it again. They're old and they're tired, and this whole thing just wears on them. It's exhausting. They're in Florida, whatever. We this whole thing just wears on them. It's exhausting.

They're in Florida, whatever. We've dealt with criminals our whole life. We don't want to deal with another one. Exactly. Now, Roger remarried while in prison.

What? Found himself a woman. He plans to live in Madison and have a nice time. Stay in Wisconsin. Staying in Wisconsin and he builds a whole other life for himself here.

1988. Well, I found a couple of weird things in the newspaper. He keeps applying for variants set yeah these different variances for his house and his mom's house one is uh in 1988 he uh he he and his mother request a setback variance to park a vehicle in the front yard which no don't let him do that that's trash 1990, there is a missing 17-year-old girl in this area, in Janesville.

And the parents are looking for her. She has a short-term memory disorder. So apparently, her name was Michelle Eberling. She was last seen by friends. Apparently, she was waiting for a bus. But when the bus was late, she became disoriented and couldn't remember if she missed it. And they thought she wandered off uh so uh they asked she suffers from short from a loss of short term memory caused by a track and field accident last summer says her speech therapist roger syrinsky oh boy oh yeah he's working as a fucking speech therapist with teenagers this fucking guy

holy shit this is in 1990 this is six less than six years after getting out of jail for cold-blooded murder wow and it doesn't say any it doesn't say roger serensky her speech therapist and convicted murderer nowhere in these articles does it say that it just says her speech therapist roger serensky convicted murderer and speech there and speech therapist now they don't have any of that shit uh it's crazy 1995 uh another variance here they request a rear yard variance to rebuild and extend the back porch of their home into usable living space they're gonna get a variance to park their car back there and get it out of the fucking front yard they should now uh in uh 1996 uh prince charles and princess

diana get divorced divorced and so in the local newspaper they were just asking for citizens to write in their opinion on whose fault it was and fucking Roger writes in an opinion he said why didn't he just kill the bitch

he said at least he didn't shoot that Arab guy with a shotgun that's what he said but it was very strange that Arab fella and you can see him that Arab guy with a shotgun. That's what he said. But no, it was very strange. That Arab fella. Yeah. And you can see him, that Arab fella, that Arabic fella. It wasn't that Arabic fella. That's what made it fucking funny. That's what it was right there.

And you can see here, I'll show you a picture. That's Roger. Oh, geez. He's all silver haired. He looks like a professor. What's going on with his nose? Turtleneck on. Well, he's like in his 60s, but turtleneck on.

He seems like a long nose. Yeah, he's probably drinking a little bit. He says about Princess Di and Charles here, quote, it's really no surprise. Any kind of relationship is bound to have troubles. And obviously, these two royal people share the same emotions and irreconcilable troubles with the commoners. It's also not surprising since you see higher divorce rates in America among educated people than less educated people. So they certainly weren't immune from divorce.

And he is listed as Roger Serinsky, 52, retired speech pathologist, Madison. He didn't leave. Convicted fucking murderer. Convicted shotgun murderer. He left that part out. And it's weird. I'm surprised that he didn't bring up the rumored infidelity. Yeah, that would have been hysterical.

Pretty funny. But I found somebody else's opinion on it to be hilarious. There's a 19-year-old student named Rachel Hansen. She puts on, quote, I think both of them are to blame. Charles probably more so because of his lengthy affair with an old girlfriend. But Diana doesn't get any of my sympathy. She comes off as feeling sorry for herself. She didn't spend Christmas with her children.

Instead, she took off for an island vacation. Instead, she has probably brought the majority of her problems on herself. And that ginger son doesn't look anything like him. Holy fucking shit. This is like, fuck that bitch. And then she died and everyone was like she's the greatest person that ever lived she changed her opinion completely it's so fucking funny pictures of her on her walls yeah so princess die there that's his opinion on

that so he's he's out just putting his he has no shame i wanted to show that he was talking to newspapers about things that aren't don't have to do with murder. Not even hiding. He has no shame. He submitted a picture. I showed you. There's a picture of him next to his opinion. Oh, boy. That's from the article. Oh, Jesus.

Look, there's Rachel Hansen right there. Oh, boy. Rachel looks like she's 30. That chick's 19? Yeah, it's in black and white. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt. Oh, boy. What's going on?

Slow it down. Yikes. So, cheesy beer farts. So, yeah, he puts his picture on there, his name, his real name, his age. He doesn't give a fuck. He's not ashamed of this. He appears to have joined Twitter. What?

In November of 2014. Oh, boy. He appears to have joined Twitter. The Twitter problem is not a whole lot of tweets because on December 30th, 2015, he died. He was a Twitter member for a year and a month. He's not tweeting from beyond the grave, apparently. He didn't do much with it. He was a Twitter member about as long as he was a prisoner.

Yeah, pretty much. That's perfect. So he is dead at age 71. A free man. Free man. Shit, he was free. What was that, 2050? He was free for 31 years. Wow. He was free. What was that? 2050 was three for 31 years.

Wow. He got 31 extra years of life after prison. 31. That's crazy, man. He remarried. He fucking built. He was a speech therapist.

He was got a job, a professional job. Yep. He was cause he had all his references. I mean, he had a bunch of people. I'm sure he had that Congressman and people saying, you know,

he was convicted. It was very shady and it was was a blah, blah, blah. And he's great. And they hired the guy. That's what happens. And you don't even know. Unbelievable. No fucking idea.

What a story. That is crazy shit. That's the opposite of the Fugate case. Yeah. That's what we just did. That's what I wanted to show is the opposite of the Fugate case. That's incredible. And this, they just couldn't wait to let him out.

Everybody's just saying how great he is. And down there, they were just like, can we fucking kill him yesterday it's super weird there's no more questions yeah so uh roger syrinsky's dead uh uh sandra i believe is still alive but her new husband died of pancreatic cancer in 2009 oh she married patrick's wedding yes she did actually it's very it was a really sexy wedding everybody had their abs out it was really hot it was good shit yeah so uh yeah her new husband's dead and her old husband's dead too and uh i don't know if she's finding other people to hang out with i hope so i hope so too but that is uh roger syrinski and the syrinskis and paul paulie and crandon wisconsin weird ass story that was unbelievable the fucking

strange one uh so yes if you like that story there is a way to tell us all about that. You can go to iTunes, Apple podcast, the purple icon. Give us five stars. Tell us you're following instructions or directions or it doesn't matter. It's not for our ego. We're trying to feed the damn funky algorithm that iTunes has. It's not our fault. It's for Tim Apple's pet.

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and if you don't find this interesting. He went to a gas station, okay? Oh, it's so good. Punched the attendant, who then ran away to call the police. And while the attendant was gone, rather than fleeing with the money, he just said,

I'll just fucking start taking money for gas. And he waited and was like a clerk. Just worked the shift. People come up, hey, I get 20 on pump floor. He'd go, sure. And then he just put the money in his pocket. He just pretended he worked there. He took it over like it was a drug corner.

He's like, I own this shit now. I took over your gas station, motherfucker. Just the coffee today, sir? Yeah, that's it. Typing it up. The cops came as he was punching a taxi driver who was trying to take his hundred dollar bill back after the clerk had to return to tell don't give him money he doesn't work here god damn it you're blowing up my spot jesus christ so listen to the show god damn it do that uh also

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hear about the people who really matter the ones who keep this show going jimmy hit me with that list like a shotgun from three to five feet or a second story window you never know this week's executive producers are carrie shaffer shannon russell uh welshman in london uh good dad ryan moeller uh kevin kevin uh mochizuki uh lindsey walker sonia mink i believe mink it's probably mink yeah diana michelski yes uh gage foster andrea or andrea uh stanson and opal shell thank you guys so much thank you can't do without you further executive or further producers this week are jillian graham jessica with no last name jen with no last name lisa hopple hoople uh joanne music uh christopher sheehy that might be uh uh the other sheehy uh

adam oh i don't know maybe maybe it could be or his brother could turn him on to it yeah could be family uh kale washington dove harper cody sp Spence, Thomas Smith, Janice Hill, Ryan Borky, Melissa Williams, Allison Morris, Rachel Kennedy, Helena Canaver, Tracy Valk... No, it's Trey. It's Trey Valkenar. It's the Valkenar III that goes by Trey. Oh, okay, okay. Ashley Culpepper, Kayla Innes, Cat Power, Crystal Childs,

Brendan Ables, Jordan Bennett, and Canadian Boobs. All of them? All the Canadian Boobs. 60 million boobs? 30 million people. 600 million. Well, no. Two boobs

per half the population. 15 million times two. Buck Yayo, 50. Gary Howard, Justin Miller, Susan Gable, Justice Graves, Ted Cyrus, Andrew Paulson, Jesse Hartman, Bria Green, Amanda Windsor, Reagan Schalke, Schalke Lee. She's the one with the dog that she named Wisman. Oh, cool. Edward Goh, or Gow, Alan Richardson, Kim Hodgkiss, Ashley Veo, Kathleen Uptegraff.

Uptegraff. Uptegraff. Yeah, I like it. Where do you want it? Thank you. I want it Uptegraff. Uptegraff. James Marder and Harper, Abdul Jan or Jan or Jan, Erica, I fucking wrote your name terribly.

Zalanardo, I think I got it terribly. Zalernardo? I think I got it. Steven Crumley, Teresa Thomas, Leticia Herrera, Lauren Demerath, Alicia Holbert, John Watson, Gina Ozuna, Lanny Blunk, Mariah Min here, Bailey Cox, Katie Holland, Danny Cave or Cav, Magdalena Leonardis? No, Leonardo-is. What did I do? Ah, what have I done?

Nothing good. Fuck. Something Ritz. To Witz. That's what it is. Leonardo-witz? I think that's right. I think that's right.

No, it's not. God damn it. I'm so sorry. Meredith Burrell, Clay Thorson, Zoe Bedna... Bedna... Bedna... Bedna fucked us up. Bednasky and Anthony Renaro. That's not right. I'm sorry. Elizabeth Martin, Abel Macedio...

Macedo. Wow. Abel Macedo, Angel Mattingly, James Foster, Rivka... Rivka Arbetter. Is that a joke? I don't know what that is michelle and and tabby and tabby uh matt nixon jennifer deal uh cassie hilkey liz uh with no last name uh yaviani how did i get that right but i can't get yaviani Lorenzo, Kathleen Langbeen, Kyle Alexander, Leslie with no last name, DJ Mitchell, Jessica Christensen, Jake Labier-Mia with no last name, Carrie Nicholson, Ali Roberge, Nikki Dawn, Phil.

Phil! Phil! Phil! Phil! Phil! Phil! he's doing all this gun man matt dietrich jason m uh marcus rippentrop uh jacqueline edmiston uh amanda gibson crystal lacrosse no chouse lacrosse what am i doing esther gabriel tory bon. Strap in one last time. Kyle Blaze, Julia Wheeling, Mary McKenzie, Bad Fish Squid. Don't look at me. Bex Alice, Brittany with no last name, Russ Linderman, Penny Hambrick, Bring Back Sharkicons.

What is that? What have we done? Did we take Sharkicons away? I don't think that's directed at us. I think that was sent to somebody else, and we ended up catching it. We've taken nothing away from anybody. All we do is give. Once we have it, we give it away. I don't know what Shark-a-cons are.

Once you have it, we won't take it back. Apparently, we've stolen them all. Jordan Lynch, Suzanne Larson, Amanda Short, Joy White, Shelley Warners, Mark Gavani, Jen Lamb. She is down there in Houston. AR, is that, damn it. AR Feutzwagel, is that AR or AK? I don't know. Well, guess.

I'm saying AR Feutzwagel. Make a stance, Jimmy. Josie Jimenez, Zach Stevens, Teresa Mehta, Jen Excel, Angel Melendez, Troy Munguio, Megan Levitt, I think it's Megan Levitt and I left off an N because there's nobody named Mega. There's nobody named Mega Levitt, right? Maybe. He's the ultimate Levitt. The most Levitt. Jennifer with no last name, Tommy Arsenault.

Valerie Callahan. Belinda Chandler. Tammy Gee. Corey Magnuson. Christine Palmer. Corey Herman. Sarah Reichert. Maggie Lawrence.

Nikki Cofill. Mike Kennedy. Alex Cawthorn. Madison Flatt. Brandon Revell. Brianna Seeley. It's all of them. Carolyn Hart. Caroline. calthorn uh madison flat brandon revel reveal revel uh brianna sealy caroline uh emily campbell michelle michelle martin uh michelle terry also megan daly eloise nap mariah devin devin resnikoff, Mary Jane High. That's for you, I imagine. Hey.

Lainey Eagle, Nicole Tackets. Nicole Tackets. Nicole, really? What are we doing now? Nicole Leonardo. What is happening tonight? Rachel with no last name. Jed Warwick, Megan Wilgus, Anna Zerkich, Brian with no last name, Kelsey Marie Allen, Renee

Miller, Chris Kirby, Leslie Brammel, Meth Falcon, Jonathan Wilder, Brian with no last name kelsey marie allen renee miller chris kirby leslie brammel uh meth falcon uh jonathan wilder brian with no last name tyler guill prayer no parker parker adelson not prayer why would anybody be named prayer james answer riddle me this mega prayer motherfucker yeah i'm trying my best mega prayer prayer. Andrea Tilson, Rhonda. All right. Fuck your prayers up, bitches. Matthew Murphy, Kristen Waller, Amy Ellis, Sarah Wetmore, Megan Crowley, Connie. No, it's Lonnie Lonnie Hall, Martina San Francisco, Pamela.

Thank you. Pamela Souls, Christina Jordan, Dylan Leahy, Sally Earls or Salih Earls. I'm ruining it. Amy Heiler, Ross Byrne, Jim Crow. Not thee, obviously. Jesus, as in the law? I hope not. Hey, dick.

Leave black people alone. Tess Fahey, Gariscus, Martha Shaw. What did I? Martha Shaw? I'm a jerk, and I can't thank you enough for what you did for us uh melanie tommy belinda chandler denisee arius i know that last name because of that shit bag yeah yeah yeah and keith durbin you guys are fucking great we love you so much yeah we god we can't thank you guys enough for the ones for for doing everything you do for us, for keeping this like a viable thing.

We love you guys. Thank you so much for changing our lives repeatedly. We can't thank you enough. What if they wanted to thank you or they wanted to be mad at you for having an affair with their English teacher wife? How could they get all the indulgence? You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks. Thank you guys for everything that you do for us. And I realize that a lot of people say, like, it's not personal. It's just business.

But this business is incredibly personal. And we get it. So I try my best to be involved with you guys and reply back to things. Sometimes I miss them, and I apologize. But I'm doing my best. Where can they find you doing your best? You can find me. I'm doing my best, man.

You can find me at'm off i'm doing my best man you can find me at jimmy p is funny or you can uh copy and paste my last name from the show description find me that way because you won't spell it right otherwise you'll just be like small town murder guy yeah and then that won't work small town murder james yeah it's well i guess you'd probably that way i'll probably you probably would probably pop up and you're going to find if any people in small town you're to copy someone right so just copy and paste don't be a fucking loon what are you doing here so with that said thank you so much for joining us on this goddamn insanity till next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.