Small Town Murder - #116 - A Vampire Pyramid Scheme in Marshfield, Massachusetts

Episode Date: April 25, 2019

This week, in Marshfield, Massachusetts, a neighborhood house fire leads to the discovery of a brutal murder inside. At first, there are many theories, but eventually the question comes down to this... Was she killed by a vampire, because she was actually also a vampire? Do you need to work your way up the vampire pecking order, like some kind of direct marketing program? These questions, and many more, that you never knew you had will be answered on this episode!!Along the way, we find out about an historical figure, we dig into the inner workings of the vampire mind, and discuss exactly what is the best kind of bird to keep as a pocket snack!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Marshfield, Massachusetts, a house fire leads to the discovery of a brutal murder inside. But what happened?

Robbery? A grudge? A vampire? back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy, yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us. Jimmy is still giggling about the introduction. What the fuck? my name is james petra gallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us jimmy is still giggling about the introduction and that is going to be the most normal part of this episode this is a crazy episode if you've if this is your first uh small

town murder if you've decided to give us a chance on this one it's a crazy you've picked a good one yeah because it's very very interesting we'll put it that way. It's a wild one. I don't even know what we're going to say yet. And we guarantee you're going to dig it. It's going to be insane. This is one of those ones where we don't even have to make jokes. We could read court text and it would be just hilarious the whole time. Just giggle and move on. It's goddamn insane.

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lives we know you got shit going on yes for you to even send anything it's just it's really amazing because we've got tons of stuff going on too if you knew the shit behind the scenes between the two of us yes thank you guys for everything we appreciate it to to just get anything from you guys with real life shit happening it's it's amazing absolutely gotta do the disclaimer quickly quickly here uh this is a comedy show yeah if you're just tuning in from you guys with real life shit happening. It's amazing. Absolutely. Got to do the disclaimer quickly, quickly here. This is a comedy show. So if you're just tuning in and you just want a straight, no jokes, the head was severed from the body and placed in a dark cooler. If you want that, that's great.

Dateline's available. There's a lot of shows that like that. The murder porns out there. Go for it. Knock yourselves out this is a comedy show the stories are real every detail is real everything is real we make jokes though here and there because we're comedians uh we make jokes about small towns and bumbling police forces and murderers who are idiots we make fun of them uh what we don't do though we go out of our way

not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Because? Because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's right. That's how that works. Same story, less tugging. That's right. So if that sounds good to you, welcome aboard. We're going to have a great time. And if you don't think true crime and comedy should ever mingle together, then no estuary

there for you. Then I'm sorry. Have a good one. It's been nice knowing you. You should probably not listen to the show, because you're not going to dig it. Everybody left there who wants to have a good time and wants to laugh and hear a crazy ass story. Let's do this.

You know why we do it. Shout it from the rooftops, from your cars, from your stand on your desk in your cubicle. Shout it out. Let everyone in your office know you're insane. Shout, shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip. Okay.

What do you say? We're going pretty close, actually. We're going to stay on the East Coast. Close to where? Close to Lil' Tits from last week. Very, very close to there. My favorite. Yes.

We're going to stay in the region, in the Northeast. Because I normally like to bounce around if we're in the Southwest, and we'll go to the Northeast and, you know, whatever. But we're going to stay here just because this story is so crazy. It's one of these stories where I found it and I'm like, no one else has ever covered this. Because by the way, that's something that we,

one thing I'll do is I won't cover a story that like a bigger, like a true crime podcast is covered. Like we don't do that. If any of the majors have covered it or there's about a list of about 15 of them. And if any of them have covered it, I'm not going to touch it

because it's already been done. Even if they do a shitty job or do a great job it doesn't matter like it's just been done and we want to do unique shit which makes it difficult because not only do we have to find small town murders but then one whenever people do our shit it's like can't you find something in a big city fucking asshole like that's mine you get real possessive of these murders and no pigeonholed ourselves enough. God damn it. You have to help our own insane rules that we set for ourselves.

You fucking vulture. Find your own. Yeah. But this one, I said, God, I have to do it before. Someone's going to do it if I don't do it right now and not next week. So we're going to do it right now. We're going to go to Marshfield, Massachusetts. Yes, it is.

It's southeastern Massachusetts, which is south of Boston in that panhandle. Yeah. Right in the panhandle. All panhandle, Massachusetts. Oh. Yes, it is. It's southeastern Massachusetts, which is south of Boston in that panhandle. Yeah. Right in the panhandle. All panhandle, baby. It's like a boot down there. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like a little Italy coming off of the whole deal. It's right in there on the kind of north coast of that panhandle there as it wraps around.

I was hoping you'd found a murder over there in Smooth Twat or whatever. Smooth Twat, yeah. What was the sister city? Oh, that's in the Czech Republic. Oh, okay. Kunvald. Kunvald. It was in the Czech Republic there last week.

Smooth Twat. Close enough. That was their sister city. We can't make that up. That is not our fault. Fantastic. We promise you that. This one here, it's about 40 minutes to Boston, so it's commutable.

This is a commuter town. Two hours to Hartford, Connecticut, the other direction, and about two hours and 15 minutes to Northampton, Massachusetts, which is episode 58, the last time we visited Massachusetts. My fuck. It's been about a year since we've ventured up into Massachusetts, which was a lot of murders there, too. Is this only our second one? Third.

Our second and third episodes were a two-parter on Rainham, Massachusetts. Rainham. The Dunkin' Donuts guy. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, yeah. That's a crazy episode. That was too much. That was a lot.

Yeah, that was wild. He had a shitty car, too. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Shit car, the whole deal. This is in Plymouth County, speaking of shitty cars. Uh-huh, yeah. The county of a shitty car. That's the reason Plymouth doesn't really exist anymore.

Zip code 02050. I love the zeros and one zip codes from back east. Area code 3393-9 and 7-8-1. You can't hold these people down with one area code, Jimmy. It's 32 square miles, 27 of them on land. So it's very spread out because it's very rural. It's not a lot of small lots with packed in neighborhoods. It's bigger lots and people have farms and stuff.

It's a lot more room down there it's it's still pretty rural uh for massachusetts and especially to be 40 minutes outside of boston it's and you're close to the coast yeah it's pretty damn rural down there still it's it's weird yeah it's it's it's a weird place we'll find out we'll give it time the motto of this place here uh i don't think this is a great motto quote home of daniel webster the guy that wrote the dictionary he didn't write the no no no no not that who's daniel webster exactly that's why it's a bad that's why it's a terrible uh motto because most people will go well that shit is daniel webster i've never heard of that goddamn guy. It's not the guy that wrote the Bible? Or the dictionary?

No, it's not, actually. We'll explain him in a second. I prefer their other motto, which I think is more to the point. Just, quote, cheaper than Boston. I don't know. I think that's pretty much all you're trying to get across here. Never mind Daniel Webster. You can drive to Boston and live here for half the price.

Hey, what do you think? You want your kid to have a yacht or what? What do you want? That's what it is. Is that Gary Coleman's whole name from the show? Is that what it is? No? That wasn't Gary Coleman.

That is not Gary Coleman. Emmanuel Lewis. I got him. That's not Gary Coleman. That's another little guy. That's Arnold Drummond you're thinking of. Arnold Drummond. Jesus.

Is not Webster. They're different people. Absolutely, completely different people. He's a little guy too, right? Yeah, they're both permanently young looking. I don't know what the condition is. I believe deceased African American gentleman. Is he also dead?

I'm not sure. I think Webster. I know Gary Coleman's dead. I'm not sure if Webster's dead. I hope not. I remember he was on like the Surreal Life. He seemed like a really adjusted, cool dude, too. Gary Coleman was off his rocker.

He was crazy. But Webster seemed fine. He seemed like he was cool. Except for digging Michael Jackson. Wasn't he the one sitting on Michael Jackson's lap? I think any child who was a star was sitting on Michael Jackson. Him, Macaulay Culkin, all of them. Corey Feldman.

Bring me minors with penises. My lap is empty. That's all it was, I think. The ones that look youngest, the longer, the best. Famous. How famous. Famous buttocks upon my lap. So Daniel Webster, history here.

We'll go buzz through the history quick because all of these old, anytime you're talking about Massachusetts, anywhere near Boston, the history is complete. It's thick and it goes back 400 years so it goes back to the 1600s and it's pretty much the first place people were hanging out was in the northeast there so it's thick with history and a revolutionary war shit and you could do a two-hour podcast on the history of the town so instead we'll just give you an overview and not not do

all that insanity uh first daniel webster because everyone i think is if they haven't googled him yet they're trying to figure out who he was he was born in 1782 he was uh he represented new new hampshire and massachusetts in the in the u.s congress he served as the u.s secretary of state under william henry harrison john tylerard Fillmore, all presidents, in case you're not good at history. He was an attorney also here. He was also a member of the Republican Party and the Whig Party before that. And after Andrew Jackson, my partner here, Andrew Jackson, defeated for his accidental racism. Not Andrew Jackson's.

His was completely. Jimmy's is accidental. He's not a racist at all. I mix up little black guys, but I don't. Yeah, that was an Andrew Jackson moment. But he's not like, now let's go there, burn their homes to the ground and take the land. That's not. Let's kill the one that's alive.

Yeah, he feels bad. He mixed them up. So that's a different thing. So, yeah, after Andrew Jackson became president, Webster became an opponent of his domestic policies of mainly what I just said. Oh, completely messing up the Indians and taking their land and doing horrible things to them and marching them in different directions. He's a good dude. Things of that nature. Yeah.

He also he strongly objected to the theory of that nature. Yeah. He also, uh, he, uh, strongly objected to the theory of nullification. And we'll talk about that here. Uh, he, he supported, but then he supported Andrew Jackson's response to a nullification, uh,

crisis, but then also, but then ended up disagreeing with him about other shit. So he was back and forth on a lot of shit. The nullification crisis was a United States sectional political crisis during the presidency of Andrew Jackson, which involved a confrontation between the state of South Carolina and the federal government, which has been going on for approximately 200 years still to this day. They're always fighting with the federal about a flag or about something.

Just stop. Stop being a fucking pain in the ass south carolina stop it enough out of you you've no you had your say yeah we let you get muskets and everything it's enough now you shut up and you just go about your fucking business you go to work at home depot and you come home and you watch tv and you shut the fuck up we've had it with you darius rucker's got to stop being so proud of that state god damn it my dad lives down there now he loves it my aunt lives he just lives like a half mile from the beach so he doesn't give a shit he's like i don't care what anybody else is doing the beach is right there i don't fuck him doesn't give a shit so uh yeah there was a there was a tariff thing

the federal tariffs that they were fighting against who cares it doesn't matter but uh anyway webster ended up joining uh uh with other jackson opponents to form the wig party to unsuccessfully unseat him in 1836 so that's what ended up happening in this town or that's what that's who daniel webster is this town quickly real quick history here during the revolutionary war against the british uh this town was full of British loyalists. This town was like they were picking the wrong side. We'll put it that way. In the end, obviously, for, you know, I'm not talking moral reasons, just in the end, practically, they fucked up.

So there was a lot of infighting among the people of the town over that because there were some people who were, you know, staunch revolutionaries. And there's some people who a lot of big pockets of british loyalists and you know shit fighting goes to there uh after the british evacuated from boston in 1776 a bunch of uh marshfield residents were banished from the state oh banished from get out get out under the tory banishment act i love the word banishment it sounds but just thrown out doesn't sound as as bad yeah like let's say you go to a bar and you have too much to drink and they throw you out i got thrown out of this bar whatever you got banished never again yeah sir it says a lot yeah you're we don't even know other chances even sober we don't think you're going to do well you've

used them all you've used up all your chances. Sorry. So, yeah, these people fled Massachusetts. A lot of them never returned. These people were the loyalists after the British were pushed away from there, were assaulted and jailed. They confiscated land and kicked them out. I mean, people were not having that shit here. Some people came

on later on came back later on when things had calmed down a little bit you know right at the things get heated when you're fighting in the backyard you gotta wait till things chill out and then you come back hey guys remember me hey how's it going i brought shasta i see so it was on sale you know i mean orange i get it's not i get it's not a major whole of product i'm sorry but i didn't bring hydrox over or anything it's just shasta it's fine the kids won't mind they won't know the difference they don't pour it in low plastic pour it in a cup they don't know done it's just tell them it's hey look at that beautiful orange soda hey look at that kid you're happy now ain, look at that, kid. You're happy now, ain't you?

So, yeah, these people, Jesus Christ, they ended up, some of them ended up going up to Nova Scotia. Oh, all the way to Canada. To run away. Yeah, they had like, they ended up with like this little society of banned. Banished. Banished British, banished American British loyalists. They ended up in nova scotia there the town of milton that was a tough way to try to fit in yeah the town of milton denied them oh yeah and then finally nova scotia gave them another part gave them permission to land and so

they went up there uh they had uh they had the the ship contained articles here they had uh 17 firearms five bayonets they had swords powder horns uh i don't know what the hell that is it's a gun i guess so it's a oh no you know what that's just the sling that holds the powder for the muskets okay there you go there you go uh yeah it's it's it's pretty interesting though they got them the hell out of there then they had people at the end of the war uh there were some people who were kind of shit out of luck here. Just stuck. They were stuck.

They didn't know where to go. They had family there. That is tough. All these miles from where we are treasonous, and now we can't fit in here or there. Back then, it's hard to be mobile, really, because people were mobile, but you had to just pack your shit up and what you could carry and go. There was no moving companies. I hope there's wind today.

That's what I mean. Well, there was no move. I mean, in a wagon or whatever, there's no moving companies. You can't just, like, call ahead and do things. It takes forever to do anything. You could be killed by animals. There's like a completely it's very, very difficult here. These people, there's a woman named Sarah Winslow of Plymouth, wrote a letter to her cousin here.

And this is the this is this says I found this article talking about the anguish dilemma facing the loyalist families at the conclusion of the war. And this is April 10th, 1783. Our fate now decreed and we are left ton, out our days in wretchedness. No other resources but to submit to the tyranny of exalting enemies or settle a new country. I am one of a number that gladly would embark for Nova Scotia was it either prudent or proper, but I am told it will not do for me at present. What is to become of us, God can only tell. That person's like 19. Oh yeah, absolutely.

It's a 14- old kid in all our four in all our former suffering we had hope to support us being deprived of that is too much yeah that's yeah it's incredible i wouldn't write that now if i was on my deathbed you know what i mean greg geraldo had a joke about that where he's like yeah imagine a letter from a from a from an army guy in in iraq dear dear hannah it's a civil war thing yeah that's uh is that gary gallman no uh gary uh greg heraldo okay yeah yeah that's it's greg heraldo it's fucking hilarious yeah where he's like my dearest clarice and it's like this long yeah the days between us it's all flowery dear hannah that's what it is yo bitch is like and the letter of vegas oh yeah p.s don't fuck nobody don't fuck

nobody till i get there it is very hot in the dessert in the dessert yeah that's it's just i don't know what it was back then if you could write you could write it is amazing of course half the people were illiterate but if the people who were literate boy could they write amazing and if you couldn't if you couldn't write you could still speak like that that's the thing fucking impressive unless you were a hill person or something just depending on where you were really so uh the early industries here they had a lot of farming a lot of cattle fishing there because it's right by the water uh salt marsh haying i don't know what salt marsh haying is i think we've talked about salt marsh yeah we've talked about that before i don't remember what they are i'm not gonna i don't even care i'm never going to absorb it so don't know what salt marsh hanging is. I think we've talked about salt marshes before. Yeah, we've talked about that before. I don't remember what they are still.

I'm not going to. I don't even care. I'm never going to absorb it, so don't tweet me. Doesn't matter. We don't care. So a number of the early townspeople here had slaves, including this Winslow family they keep talking about a lot. The Winslow and Kent families had slaves, which is not cool, of course. They had an early nail factory.

That's exciting. We're making nails. Jesse Reed founded that. He was one of the first to manufacture nails by machine. Oh, he's a fucking innovator. I'm trying to think of how a machine does it. I guess it just stamps it. I believe.

I don't know. I don't know. I can see you making it. I'm sure there stamps it. I believe. I don't know. I don't know. I can see you making it. I'm sure there's Mark Summers, whatever that show he had. I'm sure he told you how nails were made at some point. So shipbuilding became a big thing. Over 1,000 ships were built here during the 1800s. It was all those goddamn nails.

All those nails. That's what you need all those nails for, a lot of ships. all his nails for a lot of ships uh also uh they they uh they built the antenna here that sent uh the first transatlantic voice broadcast in 1907 because this is like it's the farthest east we have pretty much on the tip there going to europe uh so they uh uh wow huge fire in 1941 yeah uh 400 buildings burnt to the ground in three hours. Holy shit. That's a fire. If anything catches a fire and you're like, oh, that was a big fire. It's a shit fire compared to that fire.

400 structures in three hours. Three hours. Gone. Gone. One of the largest fires in terms of structures destroyed in the history of the United States. Today. Yeah. Still.

It was the subject of national news coverage. They had a big spread in life magazine with all the pictures of this town because it was just like holy shit that was a to not it wasn't like a wildfire like in california or anything like that it was a goddamn like a fire started in town and just spread now it's crazy at some point you got to think some dickhead that just didn't like his house was like throw a match i'll think it's all the same shit on it well christ who knows what the hell kind of crazy heating systems and poor electrical work they had there rigged up it was no they didn't care but in a moldy basement they had bad electrical connections it's not great uh today

though it's a very semi it's pretty rural out there a lot of suburbs it's a it's a rurally it's more rural i mean it's a it's a more laidback place. There's a lot of old farms there, which accounts for the large square mileage of the town, and a lot of old historic houses here. They have a summertime. A lot of people come to the beach, so it's got kind of a tourist population for a couple of months there. They have a big agricultural fair there. Oh, boy. It's the oldest agricultural fair in the United States.

It's because it's the only one it's they started it back there and then yeah that's it's they were the first to have that idea uh so it's a lot of uh tourists they'll come to the beach population here in 1900 there was 1810 people here oh that's it in 1900 as of right now there's 25 648 booming so it's it's boomed a little bit up up 2.7 percent since 1990 so not not really uh you know running away with it when's the uh festival do you know summertime it's in the summer yeah it's a summer festival that's weird i know that uh probably get more tourists and shit in there too everybody else calls that the fucking state fair you know what i mean they have that culture thing yeah no this is a separate it's just around the harvest

the agricultural fair it's a totally it's they started it they're celebrating the joe deer yeah well before they would dip a twinkie in in hot boiling oil they had this it's not separate from the state fair uh median age here is uh 44.6 which is pretty seven years older than the average uh but most of the dem age demographics are pretty close to average it's just there's more people 25 to 54 by a little bit and it drives it up more females about 53 female here married populations higher these suburban towns outside of a big city you're always going to get the higher it's families that move there people get married they find each other in the city and get married and move out here and have kids that's that's just the way it works so uh 57 married almost 58 percent less divorce rate

here than normal uh less people single with no children here than normal so it's not a swinging town it's a you know it's a suburban hangout commuter town uh pop race racial breakdown here that's i mean outside of this close to a big city. Wow. Ninety four point nine three percent white. This is very white for. Wow. That's excessively white for twenty five thousand people. Yeah, that's a shitload outside of a major city right by Boston.

Point one six percent black. Wow. That sounds that's borderline on purpose. Not even for that sounds bad. It's won't it lay they won't let in emmanuel lewis or gary callman neither 0.54 asian 1.36 percent hispanic so it's pretty white down uh 43 religious which is now lower than normal uh 34 cath Catholics are the Baptists of the North. They really are. As we all know. Here, 0.4% Jewish.

So not quite a Havana Gila. You don't quite get to sing it. 0.4? 0.4. God damn it. That's it. And 0.0% Muslim. The last election, 50% voted Democrat, 42.5% Republican.

That is interesting. The rest is independent there. Yeah, it's liberal. In Massachusetts, it's pretty liberal. So unemployment rate here is about normal. Median household income is high because a lot of these people work in Boston, too.

So that helps. And it's just expensive back there. Normally in the country, it's about $57,000. Here it is $94,737. So a good almost $40,000 more here for the median. That's a double. Yeah, and it is.

And there's a lot of like kind of white-collar jobs that people have there from finance and insurance in Boston, that sort of thing. So you get people that have a few bucks more in the professional, the scientific, and technical jobs. There's more of those. A few more like retail trade because it's by the beach. Overall cost of living, $100, 100 is par normal you know regular here it is 153.7 that's not so bad not so bad a lot of it's all pretty normal except for housing which is 238.3 median home cost here 462 500 bucks so i don't see it expensive it's goddamn expensive and uh most of the houses are between seven eighty percent of the houses are between

three hundred and seven hundred fifty thousand dollars so you're not going to get a lot under that at all it's pretty and the houses in that area are not that fucking great that's the thing i found to be in a real nice area well let's find out you know how we can do that with the marsh field massachusetts real estate report It's a real nice area. Well, let's find out. You know how we can do that? With the Marshfield, Massachusetts Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here is about $1,810, which is pretty high. And then when he goes into more houses in the three, four-bedroom range, they're pricey. I found a two bedroom, one bath, 591 square foot little house.

It is tiny. $259,000. Shit. And it's not even like right on the beach or anything. I checked. I'm like, is it like a bungalow? Is there ocean waves crashing on your doorstep? Nope, not at all.

I found a four bedroom, two bath, 1,869 squaresquare-foot house. Try to find your family house. You got three kids or something. This is the kind of house you're going to need. $449,900. That's kind of your average middle-class family home here, and that's what it costs. And then I found, you want to stretch out.

You've done well here. You have a nice office in Boston. I found a four bedroom three bath 2400 square feet right on the water i'm talking there's the porch and there's waves coming up five feet from the porch with sand there how much beautiful 1.1 million dollars christ which is a lot yeah but for what it is i mean in la that's 13 million dollars 13 if you had that in like malibu that's a 40 million dollar house it? If you had that in Malibu, that's a $40 million house. So, I mean, even if you were on Long Island or something, that's a $20 million house.

If that's in the Hamptons or some shit like that. But it's not. It's Massachusetts, so it's less. So, things to do here. They have the Levitate Music and Arts Festival here. Oh, boy. They have the Levitate Music and Arts Festival here. Oh, boy. It's a community-oriented surf-slash-skate shop and apparel line based out of Marshfield.

And that's what they have. That's Levitate? They have a big music festival here. They call it New England's premier grassroots festival. I don't know. What the hell? Grassroots? Okay, so they started from the bottom.

Now we're here. World-class music art food and culture uh to our own backyards and blah blah blah so it sounds like you like you know you smoke your vape pen and get stoned and then go there and like do you have a lineup find like pretzels and shit on the street and like fried dough and eat it and fuck around and maybe they dip it till we get some shitty band maybe maybe they discovered it who knows crime rate here but we're interested in crime rate property crimes about a third low so it's about two-thirds of the normal here. Violent crime, the murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime,

is about half the national average. So it's a rural, suburban, safe town that people move their families out of to avoid city shit, basically. Move their families to avoid city shit. Keep your wife from cheating on you that's yeah yeah i'll keep her out there with the yeah no goddamn houses around us nobody to cheat with a bunch of insecure dudes once a year i'll take you to a music fest don't you worry they got that levitate fest if you don't like that i'll show you some deers over there at the agriculture place. On our anniversary, we go to Boston for dinner. And then we come right home. So not too much wine.

That's a 40-minute ride. We'll get a bottle at home. It's expensive in the restaurants now. I don't know why they have Southern accents. Because they're in a panhandle. It's a panhandle accent. What are we talking about? That's why.

It's not Southern. Panhandle behavior and a panhandle accent. Let's talk about some panhandle behavior, shall we's talk about a murder i think we should i think it's time this is great let's do this oh this is great people died this is great ah ah geez just the boy it just tickles me i don't know what it is about death unbelievable so uh yeah no uh this murder here uh okay let's start with april 10th 1980 so we're talking massachusetts the same town we've been discussing obviously uh 1980 so uh population's a little bit lower uh as we discussed about 25 000 now it's about 20 000 in 1980 but the same thing it's a quiet rural town rural town that everybody just thinks of as a real peaceful place.

It's just a family place where your kid could ride the bike down the street and not be taken. You're six hours up the road just relaxing in New York City right now. That's over there. That's what you're doing at this point in time. Well, I'm two. Right. Not even. I'm one at this moment in time.

You're sitting in a crib in a shitty diaper. I'm sitting a few hours away, I'm sure, maybe. I don't know. My grandmother's stuffing food into my away, I'm sure, maybe. I don't know. My grandmother's stuffing food into my face, I'm sure, because that's what they did. My mom doesn't even know my dad sucks yet. I was a fat fuck as a kid. They were just feeding me and feeding me, man. You got to feed him.

He'll throw up when he's full. Don't worry. That's like how my grandmother's policy on things. He'll throw up when he's full. It's fine. You just keep feeding. He's hungry. Treat him like a car. Just keep pumping it in until it keep feeding. He's hungry. Treat him like a car.

That's what it was. Just keep pumping it in until it falls out. That's it. Just keep topping it off. That's what they did with me constantly. Until it runs down the fucking side of the car. I wonder why I was a fat shit as a kid. Good Lord.

That is a fascinating policy. It is. That sounds Italian. It's very Italian. It does. If he doesn't want it, it'll come out. It's all full. You don't know if you're full. It's very Italian. It does. But if he doesn't want it, it'll come out. It's all full. You don't know if you're full.

That's hysterical. How do you know if you're full? You can't see. Have you thrown up yet? Well, then clearly you're not full. What's wrong with you? You're a growing boy. You need to eat.

Fuck, that's funny. So this is the problem, though. Sometimes you'll get fat kids in Italian families like this because you feed a kid like that. And I'm lucky and i'm six foot four so at some point i had this fucking burst of of height right and stretch it out thin me out which was good but i mean if i was genetically five foot seven i'd be in shit out of luck yeah i'd wave i'd be if just i'd be a dough ball 210 and and chubby a little bit chubby 210 and gross yeah so I don't know.

So, I want to talk about this murder. We're going back to 1980. April 10th, 1980. It's about 3 o'clock in the afternoon. You know, nice area here. Birds are chirping. Hell yeah. This day, actually, though, it's not a nice day.

It's a windy, rainy day. Windy, rainy day. There's a man doing painting work inside of a house nearby. And he's outside. I think he's smoking or doing whatever the hell. Washing a brush out or something. He's outside and he sees smoke pouring out of the house. Not his house that he's painting at, but another house in the neighborhood.

Yeah, he sees a bunch of smoke coming out, so he calls the fire department, obviously. Yeah, he didn't go in and order a pizza. Hey, how's it going? I need a large... There's a house on fire, but can you bring a pepper? I'm giving you that as a reference point. We're across the street from the house that's on fire. Bring me my...

You can't miss it. There's smoke bellowing out of the top of it. No, we won't call the fire department to laugh at the pizza. If they put it out, then you won't know where we are. I'm giving you that instruction because it's going to be hard for your delivery driver to find my house amidst the smoke. Yeah, and the fire trucks, too, I'm sure. So weave around them.

We're the house across the street. We'll wave. It's okay. There's two painting trucks in the driveway. Can't miss us. We're hungry. We're hungry. Very, very hungry.

It's lunch. It's past 3 o'clock. It's past lunch. Smells like barbecue Mrs. We're hungry. We're hungry. Very, very hungry. It's lunch. It's past three o'clock. It's past lunch. Smells like barbecue outside. We had a busy day. So now we smell. Yeah, I don't know what she had in there. Whoever in that house.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn

between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran,

Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast.

We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on

our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er

lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So the fires eventually put out. Obviously, they didn't just let it burn to the ground. This wasn't the great fire of 41 like we talked about here. The 400 just won? Just put this out, and it was fine. So this, obviously, they want to know whose house this is.

They figure out that the house belongs to a 74-year-old woman named Carmen Lopez. Once they get the fire extinguished they look around inside the house and they find mrs lopez they find carmen lopez uh dead inside the house she's in a fetal position on the bedroom floor of a burning house uh so they take her in and uh there's obvious it's it's it's we'll just say it's obvious that fire wasn't the only thing that got to her okay we'll put it that way there's obvious it's it's it's we'll just say it's obvious that fire wasn't the only thing that got to her okay we'll put it that way there's blood on the outside of her body there's a lot and it's uh and there's also holes in her that shouldn't be in her also that's usually doesn't it's when you find an old lady and she has holes in her that's usually an issue they don't come

like that that's the thing it does that doesn't occur naturally no oh no it's a i'm just getting old in holes form you know how that goes my grandmother never talks about that she's 93 i think she'd have a ton of holes by now if that's what just she's puncture wounds everywhere i don't know i just bleed the arteries break i don't understand it i can't believe that little old woman's 93 she doesn't look it no she oh she's 90 she's 91 grandma the other one that died is 93 okay the grandma's 91 yeah she's she's doing she's doing great, but she's very grumpy about it. She's not happy to be old. Put it that way.

She's pissed off about it. She's not fucking having it whatsoever. I'm not happy I'm 38. I know. I get it. She is pissed to be 90, boy. You have no idea. She sits there angry.

I don't want to be. I don't either. I get it. So later on, they do, uh obviously an autopsy on her because they want to they want the full extent of this sure this seems like foul play right you know normally people don't shoot themselves a bunch of times or stab themselves a bunch of times and then set their house on fire okay it's not a normal uh thing to do here uh so they reveal that she had been shot multiple times they find multiple gunshot wounds. It's.38 caliber.

And on the bullets, this is the weird shit, on the bullets they find some gold paint on parts of the bullets. Like somebody painted them? Yeah, they're not gold bullets. They find paint on them that flex off

that you can scrape off. That's an odd... Bullets don't come like that. No, they come copper jacketed, but they don't come spray painted on them like that you know flex off that you can scrape okay like so that's an odd bullets don't come like that no basically copper jacket they don't come they don't come painted yeah no they don't usually nobody it's not a fucking easter egg people aren't dipping their their bullets and designs and shit so it's not getting a pedicure yeah that doesn't that's not it's not out of the box is what we're saying right it It's not standard factory issue. So that's an odd thing. And the other thing, too, they find two penetrating wounds in the chest and one wound to the back that are considered stab wounds. So she's got multiple gunshot wounds, 38 caliber bullets with gold paint on them for some reason, and three stab wounds on her so you think that

this is a 90 something year old woman this is 74 but she's also she's also disabled uh bound to a wheelchair yeah she's not in good health this woman at all she's the bullets should have done it you didn't have to keep going all you had to do was sit and have a couple of sandwiches this woman was on the way she was almost done she was an old very sick woman like was sit and have a couple of sandwiches. This woman was on the way. She was almost done. She was an old, very sick woman, and had a lot of physical problems. She couldn't get around. Whatever you had against this woman,

we'll put it that way, that you wanted to kill her, really, time has done it already. Time's on your side. It's on your side, A, and B, it's already done it. How much more can you, you know? I mean, you could shoot her and stab her. I guess that's the way to do it's already done it she's in a how much more can you you know i mean i mean you

could shoot her and stab her i guess that's the way to do it uh that's it yeah and uh they find they find around the the bullet wounds too they there's some odd there's some oddities around the bullet wounds uh that they can't quite figure out at first uh and we do figure it out eventually of what these what's around the exterior of these bullet wounds. It's very strange. So investigators clearly want to know what happened when a 74 year old woman in a small town is brutally murdered in her house set ablaze. Clearly, this is an issue. And this is why we have a show called Small Town Murder, obviously.

So they look around and the first things they're thinking is obviously, uh, first is robbery. Did somebody rob her? But this seems like a kind of a rock overkill for a stranger robbery. Number one, normally a stranger robbery, either the gunshot would be enough. They normally, they just, it's not that aggressive, uh, weirdnesses and there's not really anything missing. There's nothing that you can see of missing. The TV's there.

It's 1980, so shit like that gets stolen, and nothing like that is gone. So right away, it's not a robbery. They figure that she's not mixed up in a Colombian cocaine cartel being 74 years old. That's a good cover. I mean, it is a good move. Living in Massachusetts and being in suburban Massachusetts and being 74 in 1980. That is an excellent cover. Well, that's the type of person where they would use her house as a stash house, actually.

But they don't think that's what's going on here just because, you know, that's crazy. And it's not happening. And this isn't Miami. It's either crazy or genius. We're going with crazy. We're going with crazy considering it's Marshfield, Massachusetts and not Miami. So, you know, so they're wondering what the hell could have happened. Who has beef with this lady?

Is this a neighbor that she, you know, fucking yelled at their dog was shitting on her lawn? Or what is this whole thing? So they do a bunch of investigating and they narrow it down to they're like, OK, this is either, you know, they think it's probably a family member is what they've narrowed this down to they're like okay this is either uh you know they think it's probably a family member is what they've narrowed this down to and they're talking about a couple different family members that they think for some reason could possibly have had access to her nobody's had a nobody's had a pronounced beef with her put it that way there's not like a lawsuit over property that they had have been fighting over for years or any obvious thing like that so they're like who would have had access to her uh now they start with uh her grandson uh her grandson is james riva the second it's right away he's a fucking junior that's a problem right away we i don't

trust the guy i gotta be honest with you right away uh he's james ain't scaring us off that scent no no no i see that i see that i i at the end i know what that means and i know that you're not that you're you're a junior too because i know what your dad's name is and it's fucking james and your middle name's the same and that's you pally you're a junior you don't get to take that too when you're a junior no and we uh yeah that just sounds like you're more fancy right sorry junior that's well two is named after somebody else. It doesn't have to be your dad. But this is. He's a junior. Fuck you, sir.

That's right. And if you do not know, if you're not aware, if you're a new listener, Crime and Sports, we have had 160 episodes and just an absolutely inordinate and ridiculous number of these athletes who are criminals are either juniors or name their kids after themselves and name their kids junior it's going it's to the point where it's like okay this is a it's a thing like if it's a hundred out of 160 that's a pretty decent uh test group there it's a lot so uh once we get if we ever get to like a thousand we'll let you know because that's a really good test that's a good pool but it's it's going to be a quarter of them at least we'll put it that way i thought it's more it's always we've when we've done the math before it's always steadily more than a third yeah of these people so it's a lot yeah so he's born june 16th 1957 so at this point he's 23 years old in 1980 when this is going on or 22 about to be 23 uh so uh when you delve

into his past, they look around, like I said, they look at these other family members first. They look at everybody. And he's the only one that really stands out as he seems like somebody you'd want to think about more when you hear about his background.

And let's talk about his background because this is one of the craziest fucking things we've ever dealt with. This guy guy his story the whole situation uh so her her at four years old yeah this started here uh at four years old uh he started acting funny his father exchanged money in a pin his piggy bank so they're trying to teach him that money like, you know, four quarters equals a dollar.

Shit like that that you teach your kid. Practical shit with money. So he made change, but equal amount. Equal amount. The kid had two dimes and a nickel in the piggy bank. Yep. The father took two dimes and a nickel,

gave him a quarter. Okay. And said, look at that. It's the same amount, but look at it. Look at that. Isn't that neat?

Condensed into one. Boom. Beautiful. Kid freaked the fuck out. What? James lost his mind. His mother said, quote, he had two dimes and a nickel and his father exchanged it for a quarter. And we explained that they were the same amount, but he tried to call the police.

He tried to call the cops? Repeatedly. Wow. Like they had to wrestle him away from the phone. And if they ever let him go, he'd make a run for the phone to call the police to say his dad stole money from him. Okay. Because it's more coins. so it's more coins because it's more coins so that's his so right away he can't be and they're explaining to him this is the same amount 10 plus 10 plus 5 is 25 yeah should have let him call back then the cop would have come over and probably beat him with a nightstick and maced him sure you

want me to mace him for you yeah i think we should teach him a lesson back then that would have been everybody would have kicked the kid's ass or sat him down like an after-school special just started teaching him brought a whole fucking jar full of change and just started showing him how it all equals the same this is 1961 you just beat a child you didn't explain things to him you told him to shut up you smacked him around and you had to make you a martini and you sent them to his room with nothing with no dinner that's how it worked in 1961 if you watch mad men at all that's all that they did cop walking in going you don't have the nerve to hit him huh i got it that's it the cop does it then the parents do it then they all the neighbors come over smack them around just for being a shit you know you learned your lesson son all right good

you know now you learn now don't be violent that's your lesson all right run along son exactly make me a martini make one for your parents too while you're at it how much is three times how much is three yeah everybody beats him again so then uh after that he tried to call the police which is silly that's just a silly kid thing you know you could i'm sure that's kind of obsessive behavior that like i'm sure ceos exhibit too and very successful people exhibit with the very successful people don't exhibit though for the most part is this behavior his mother says quote he then made a contraption with a hammer and a string oh no that uh and hung it over the doorway to the bedroom so that when

his father opened the door the hammer hit his father in the head i would beat the living fuck out of him that is beyond oh okay that almost that deserves a 1961 ass kicking right there that is he hit his father in the head he set up a booby trap jesus he set up a cartoon booby trap like he watched bugs bunny and said like i could just do that have you ever dropped i moved a fucking shelf in the garage yeah and the and i had a hammer on the top shelf like an asshole. That's my fault. It really is. But I moved it to get something around the back of it and just leaned it a smidge, and

the hammer just slipped. Oh, suck it. I heard it sliding, and I kind of looked around, like back and forth, not up, back and forth. What the hell is that noise? And then whack. The sound alone is terrifying. terrifying it's so weird because you know what hammers are made for bashing things so it's odd that it would hurt when it hits you in the fucking head it's made to drive metal spikes into fucking hard objects that don't want things

driven into them go ahead and put that on the top shelf yeah let's put it on the top shelf hit that away from everybody so it doesn't hurt anybody just so it's there but it hit me and i looked over terrible back and forth like who the fuck just you know your your fillings rattled too didn't they you went oh boy i'm sure they snapped together the bottom teeth oh my that's a bad one yeah and then you're concussed yeah and uh next thing you know you're making dick jokes on a podcast like what happens all i'm good at what happened to me jimmy if you don't know uh he used to be a poet right he was uh really a a internationally renowned ballroom dancer uh he had a lot of things uh going for him intellectually he was just outstanding genius beyond reproach

and then this hammering didn't happen yeah this hammering didn't happen and he's like is there oil in florida i think right that's why people went there webster and gershwin were same people i could just yank out of the same shit now he knew at one point now he doesn't common references in conversation shit so this kid hits his father in the head with a hammer yeah over nothing over making change so because it's hilarious it Yeah, he didn't do it as a comedy, though. He was just doing it to fuck with them? He was mad. They wouldn't let him call the police, so this was his way of retaliating.

Wow. And this was like the next day. Like, he held a grudge, planned it. This is a four-year-old. Four-year-olds forget everything. They can say, can we go to the zoo? And you go, yeah, sure. And then an hour later, they don't remember that they're going to the zoo and you're like we're going to the zoo and they're like are

we like fuck you asked to go here why are we doing like awesome yeah they don't even remember like four-year-olds are for a four-year-old to hold a grudge like a violent grudge for a day is not normal behavior if you've ever been around children can't wait for retribution that's weird yeah i'm gonna set them up i know i've seen that one thing on bugs bunny make it look like an accident uh in preschool make it look like an axe like he did it to himself well he looked like he just beat the living shit out of himself he set it up so he couldn't hit him his own self in the head with a hammer he needed to set it up open the door yeah so uh in in preschool and during kindergarten apparently he constantly drew pictures and this would draw complaints of from the teacher not complaints but like you know uh concerned yeah calls home

over this uh drew pictures of goblins bats and witches uh which around halloween whatever it's that's the thing around halloween you tell the kids to draw a witch on a, on a broom and a bat and a goblet. And then like, if it's February or like this kid has problems and you call the parents. So that's not something that in its own is not bad. I mean, and I know tons of people are just fucking weird.

They're into weird shit. They're into the occult or the macabre of some kind. And they're just, they're in a weird shit. Who cares? You know what I mean? And they're not, they don't, you know, know do anything nuts but this kid if you add all this stuff in with bashing his dad in the head with a hammer and stuff like that and more stuff uh also

while still in preschool and kindergarten uh quote dozens of pictures with bare bottoms uh these are uh like witches and things like that, bare bottoms, like, you know, your ass out, with holes and blood dripping on the floor, puddles of blood and hypodermic needles. Whoa. Quote, we were distressed at the time. Why does he even know what a hypodermic needle is? That's what I mean.

A hypodermic needle, puddles of blood. These aren't images that normally five-year-old kids can conjure because you just go off of what you've seen. Are you talking about holes in the cheeks? Yeah, and this is in 1962, so it's not like he would just, oh, he was watching Friday the 13th with his older brother had it on.

He saw a horror movie from the fucking 80s or from now or whatever. He saw Saw while something was going on. You didn't see that shit in 1962. Vincent Price was a horror movie. It was just him being creepy and having a house with lightning and things in the background. Ooh Price was a horror movie. It was just him being creepy and having a house with, you know,

lightning and things in the background. Ooh, there's creaking. His voice was terrifying. There's a storm and the phones are out. Terrifying. You know,

there wasn't like somebody just got disemboweled in another fucking room. Very few witches with their asses out with holes in them. Very few. Were there holes in the cheeks

or was it like... We don't know. His mother just said bare bottoms with holes and blood dripping on the floor i don't know if that's an asshole or if there's extra holes made with blood or if it's just a bleeding asshole i mean either way i'm not sure it's still pretty gross either way uh so he she said we were distressed at the time his mom janet i don't blame her uh she also said quote there were scenes of violence of uh guns shooting bullets and cannons and people dying good lord which is in the kindergarten level like later on kids draw military shit you drop planes dropping bombs and i don't know it's just my kids in fifth

grade he's done that for a couple of years boys are weird not crazy but no but in kindergarten mixing that with blood pictures and hammer you know hammer uh you know plots it's a weird thing now he later on will also in his what he says his claim here is that he was physically and sexually abused as a child uh these are claims that his siblings uh dispute and then his parents obviously they dispute because he's blaming them but that his siblings also dispute and all other members of his family dispute as well that's the worst claim to make if it didn't happen that's the thing but he sticks to it a whole cloth forever here psychological sexual abuse uh he also talks about drug and alcohol abuse as a child he said his

mother was significantly abusive toward him, both physically and emotionally. He stated that his mother performed, quote, weird witches rituals on him, which included having him drink what he called a, quote, witches brew, which I don't know what that could possibly be. She could have been given him Ovaltine. Yeah. And he would around Halloween. It's a witch's brew. And he would around Halloween. It's a witch's brew.

Or this kid obviously has, you know, he thinks his dad is, you know, stealing from him to the point where he needs revenge. So who knows if he could turn Ovaltine into witch's brew in a heartbeat in his mind. Also, he said that his father would give him marijuana and whiskey at a very young age as treats, which is also denied by all the relatives and family and all that. He also says that his father physically abused him. He said sexual abuse in terms of that. He said in the past his mother's female friends would sexually abuse him and that his father would encourage him to have sex with young girls, which I don't know. We don't know if that's true. His mother denies that and everybody involved denies it.

But if he says it, his mother's female friends. I don't know if this was like a... He must have been the hottest eight-year-old ever. Well, yeah. He's acting like... He's got everybody fucking him. The way he's putting it is like he's making it out like it's like his mother's got some weird coven where she's a witch and performs rituals and has a brew

and then her little witch clan fucks him like that's what he's trying to say yeah but no one else has any knowledge of witchcraft or witchery of any kind and then his dad's diddling him and then any covens get out there and fuck all the little girls yeah it's a very it's a very strange report you know if all that's true wow it's crazy but he has siblings and everybody else and no one else nobody saw it nobody saw it it didn't happen any of the other ones and it's just a you know we don't know uh he also said that he began uh he began on his own outside the family abusing all sorts of drugs around the age of 13 now we're talking yeah this is 1970 so you know if you want to get into drugs that's the

time to do it there's plenty of drugs around everywhere it's around it's easily accessible he says that he was really really really into hallucinogens dug lsd a lot and took a goddamn shitload of it as a like a teenager young 14 15 a lot of reality that is not good for you no you can't at a young age i know we have like teenagers that listen not to be like like level like dad shit here but like shit like like lsd and shit like if you're gonna drop acid you gotta wait till you're like 21 right for real like wait till you're fucking i'm not saying don't do it because if you want to do it i don't know what the hell am i to tell you not to do it stop you yeah that's i mean if you want to try to expand whatever the fuck and sit in your house and play video games and dick around with shit

go ahead do it i don't care but don't do it till your brain is fully formed yet because it will fuck your shit up in terms of little things and uh this is one of those deals where you can't do a shitload of acid we all know those kids who did a ton of acid in high school before they were like 16. And none of them, they weren't like sharp. Even at like 17, they were already fucked up and burnt out in weird places. I used to smoke weed with an older man who told me that he goes, you know, smoking weed's fine. And we're like passing a joint around. And then I was drinking a beer or whatever.

And he's like, it's okay. Is this story in with you getting molested because you smoking weed with an older man and i know you're yeah no i was 18 i think okay 17 or 18 whatever okay and in the middle of conversation he was like you know the difference is that we're not doing like coke or heroin he's like you know when you're older in life go ahead and do whatever you want i don't care but life your body is like a cake and he's like if you put the cake batter into a pan and then put it in the oven and then it bakes it that's like life and then you get to a point where you got to put the frosting on but if you put the

frosting on and then put it in the oven then it's all fucked up right that's what this is like a 40 year old man he heard that he heard that one time from some other weird guy. Some other dude in his 40s. That's the shit, man. That's what it is. He goes, hallucinogens and stuff like that. He fucking gets it, man. That's the frosting.

You get to live life, and then you have your frosting. It's not for everybody. Acid's not for everybody. Shit like that is not for everybody. And now, like, mushrooms are way more mild. So, like, you know, that's a different. different it's way less it doesn't affect you as much but like acid alters things a little bit it's a different yeah it's just a different thing especially if it's fantasy yeah it's not it's just a weird i don't know it's a weird it's hard

to explain everybody's tried to explain what acid feels like for fucking 50 years and it's the most inexplicable thing there is on earth you know it's like you can't do it yeah you can't explain it's probably because it affects people so much differently it varies yeah but everybody has that thing where it's like you ever heard the grave digger song tripping no and he's probably he's trying to he's trying to explain it and he's like and he starts going it's like it's like oh god damn it i hate it he can't explain it, and he starts going, it's like, oh, goddammit, I hate it. He can't explain it. He tries to fuck.

He's like, ah, ah. He can't fucking explain it. Oh, goddammit, I hate it. He can't explain it, because he's trying to fucking say what his condition is. Get the words for the feelings. Yeah. He can't do it. It's messed up.

So anyway, yeah, he does this a lot, which nobody denies this and he he thinks that these uh tons of hallucinogens that he did may have caused him some mental illness okay uh he says that by the age of 16 he was experiencing both auditory and visual hallucinations oh no not good either one of those are bad without taking drugs well yeah this was just when he's sober uh which included as he described telepathic messages that told of certain individuals who were vampires hell yeah that sucked blood from him that's what they do okay now this is when the vampire shit starts okay there's a there's a lot of vampire shit going on here this this guy this guy it's it's messed up because if this happened 25 30 years later i'd be like oh he's just trying to be like fucking twilight yeah and be like all

dark and broody and shit right but this is not yeah this isn't that this is he's a fucking weird dude so uh uh he says that uh wow uh this is crazy uh they said that uh why they also asked him why any of his abuse claims haven't been supported by family members and he said that he respected their opinions but he stands by his own experiences i know what happened i know my mother was a witch who had her coven fuck me i understand this uh yeah he says uh and this is we're talking he went he was in institutions and he saw doctors that he told all this shit to at the time of it being a teenager, where, like, I'm hearing shit, and this is what they're telling me, and I'm a vampire.

You imagine being that doctor? Oh, my God. Fuck is wrong with this kid. He's like, vampires are sucking my blood, bro. They're just sucking it. I can't stop them. I can't stop them from sucking my blood. Yeah, metaphorically, there's so many vampires out there.

Uncle Sam. You know how it works. You have the taxes. Corporate America is just eating up the little guy. I understand the middle class is getting squeezed, my friend. And he's like, no, no, actual vampires are sticking holes in my neck and extracting blood for me. I get it.

I get it. Hmm. Try to give him the benefit of the doubt. You know, a cake is like. Yeah. So, well, speaking of cooking, as a matter of fact, his this. Well, this here's a later conversation with his mom. Oh, boy.

Okay. His mom is asked, quote, at that time, being a teenager, did he begin eating strange things? His mother says, yes, he cooked up concoctions on a hot plate in his bedroom of boiled ketchup and parts of animals with oil and entrails and raw fish and birds. Why did she allow that? Boiled ketchup is the base. That's what we start with. He reduces that.

He gets a nice ketchup reduction going, and then he has to infuse it with animal parts of oil. That way he can get a really good saute crust, really good crust on the entrails and the raw fish and birds that he has there. You want to really hit that hard so it's crunchy on the outside, but you want it to be soft on the inside or you're never going to beat Bobby Flay. You know how this shit works. Jesus Christ. Is it like quail or is it like pigeon?

What are we talking about he could you know what let's give him the benefit of the doubt he's a fin he he had an early idea yeah and uh he he saw he's out of his time he saw the food network but he saw it 40 years in advance and he was just he was training for it and he didn't have any other things to cook that's what it was okay he's like i got ketchup i'll boil this down animals animals parts of animals i live in the woods. Right by the ocean. Hey, animals, entrails, fish, birds. I can get these things.

This is fine. Protein and ketchup. Yeah. That's why you got Julia Childs on. Julie in the background. That sounds so gross. Yeah. The word entrails ruins the whole thing.

That really does. There's no menu on earth that guys and you gotta think of a different word for it you know what i mean i mean you know foie gras sounds better than fucking bloated liver i think so you think it's something better to say i think maybe you sell that shit to rich people you get the rich people eating snails under under some bullshit guys it's easy it's very easy and it's not in trails yeah it's entrails is not that's not the word to get us the special tonight is a boiled reduction of ketchup with pots of animals cooked in an oil with entrails and a side of raw fish and of course

birds madam of course birds what what do we look like what kind of a jip joint you think we're running here of course we got raw fucking birds they're free range we took them down with a bb gun oh god in a humane way in a humane way one shot with a bb gun my god with a daisy and it took him right down so they say uh they he's cooking up that so So the next question to the mother was, would he eat a bird whole? Like, would he just eat a whole bird like an apple? Like, just fucking hold it in his hand? Wow, with salt. And his mother said, yes.

Oh, Jesus. He just ate a bird. Next question is, is it fair to say he constantly did this? I would hope not. He's just always got birds in his pocket. Constantly means he's just always reaching into his pocket, grabbing birds out. He's offering them to other people. He's got a feeling it's a pack of gum.

Good Christ, that one hurt. Jesus Christ, did he constantly do that? It's like a magician that just keeps turning everything into a bird. They're not alive and he's going to eat them. That's the difference. Watch, I'll make it disappear. Give me a minute. He sounds like the vampire to me.

Jesus. Well, that's the thing here. So the mother replied no not constantly it was a cyclical situation and so that she was at he was she was then asked were there other types of behavior this can't be you know on an island this this crazy behavior uh she said well funny you should ask i'm so glad you asked tell. Are there other types of me? Pray tell. You know, this is amazing. This is a pray tell situation right here.

His mother said, well, he started not sleeping at night. He'd go for days without sleeping, which is an odd thing for a 16 year old to do. Quote, wandering the streets at night. Why? Why are you letting him? That's your job, mom. mom no keep him in the house well then again if he's fucking eating raw birds in his pocket everything maybe you don't want him in the house standing in front of the door and then he just pops a fucking sparrow and nibbles

on the head i was gonna say yeah it's just oh he must be really just into birds are you in like a bird watcher did you find that no no this is just they're just delicious whatever's laying around i eat that's how it works so they're just delicious so he's wandering maybe they're happy they're like he's gone good jesus christ lock the door behind him get the broom sweep up the feathers christ just get him a net there's birds out there he'll be fine it's happy for days uh yeah so wandering the streets, days without sleeping. She also said that later on, and we'll talk about this, just the reason why. We'll talk about it in the chronology of how it happened. But later on, he's in and out of mental institutions. He's living in an apartment temporarily.

He kills a cat, a neighborhood cat in the complex. You know, the complex cats that are around there. Feral. Feral. Cuts its head off which is not a normal not normal behavior whatsoever uh killed the cat cuts his head off and dissected the brains uh because he said he wanted to fix his own brain and he thought if he could figure out how the cat brains worked that he could fix his own brain different animals uh

what are you gonna do take it out and perform your own surgery on your now this piece on the cat brains worked that he could fix his own brain different animals uh what are you going to do take it out and perform your own surgery on your now this piece on the cat look like let me put the fuck are you thinking you need that to do the surgery so if you don't have that in there your body doesn't operate yeah the whole thought process behind it is wrong and i'm an idiot just this isn't working uh You do need your brain fixed. They said, asked the mother on this occasion, were there blood stains or brown stains on his teeth? His mother said his teeth were very discolored. They were like that for a long time.

The next question was, did he tell you that he drank the cat's blood? She said, yes, he did. So not only did he dissect its brains to figure his own brains out, he also drank the cat's blood after he beheaded it. Does blood stain like coffee? I think it's probably like wine, I would imagine. I don't know. It leaves a little purple tinge. Either that or he's not good at dental hygiene.

I can see it. And he has blood on his teeth all the time. So that's a problem here. Both. both there's also a report at this point during the late 70s that he went to somebody's farm nearby and uh got a fence post and hit a horse on the head with a fence post jesus and uh and killed it uh wow killed a horse with a fence post and then uh took a large syringe and extracted blood from the horse with a syringe, took it home, and later used that as a chaser, just a side drink with some crackers he was eating.

So he was having some blood and crackers, some horse blood and crackers, as obviously we all do. Obviously the delicacy that we all know. Did he boil it and dip it like tomato soup? I don't think he reduced this at all. I think he just fucking shot it into a glass. As we all like horse syringe blood, syringe horse blood and crackers, obviously. So somebody knows that he did that.

Did he tell it or did the... This is found out through psychological shit at that time. So somebody didn't know who killed their horse. Yeah, no, no. That was a mystery. The fence post horse murder is still a mystery in southeastern Massachusetts. Can you imagine walking out to your horse and there's just a fence post laying by it and it's dead? Like, what the hell?

You wouldn't even notice the syringe mark or anything. You wouldn't even notice it. What monster just did this? this why would they do this there has to be a 15 foot person walking around here they didn't steal it they didn't fucking like you know disembowel it they just killed a horse and left it here makes no sense i am shocked i didn't know you could kill a horse that easy apparently if you whack it with a fence post hard enough you can knock it down and you can keep killing it i'm done with that with that that's horrible uh uh saying of that could kill a horse because apparently they die pretty easy well if you hit anything with a fence post you know how hard a fence a heavy a fence post is you gotta fucking swing that if i hit you in the head with a fence post you think

i'd die maybe it's possible a couple times if i hit you a couple more while you're on the grave probably die i think i think that's how it works i'm going on the premise that he did it once one good shot clock like like alex like mongo yeah he just hit him once and the horse fell down so in 1974 he's committed to mclean hospital which is a psychiatric hospital for six months so that's at age 17 or 16 or so 17 he's six months in so that's a that's a that's a lot for a teenager to be in a mental hospital uh then he continued uh uh outpatient treatment and also what the problem was as soon as he got out of the psychiatric facility it's not like he was cured just good now i'm fine now oh yeah no'm feeling great. I can't believe I did that weird shit. Yeah.

He continued his earlier strange behavior as soon as he got out. Like, he was super odd to everybody. He ends up being committed again to another hospital because of threatening to kill his father repeatedly. Repeatedly would kill us. Like, always. Like, I'm going to kill you, you know. Like, it was really like fucking strange uh in may of 1980 near anaheim california dorothy jane scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on

his arm and seemed unwell she insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment while he waited for his prescription dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on

apple podcasts also at this time he was engaging in conversations where his mother uh with his mother that she considered strange. And I'll tell you why. You might, I don't know, judge for yourself. Where he would refer to, quote, voices from outer space that would, quote, be directing his body. So that's a problem. That's what he's saying. That's an issue.

I'm going to kill dad. I got a really good uh sparrow reduction uh ketchup sauce going on in the back oh and by the way uh i hear voices from outer space that are directing me to kill would you like a bite of my finch of my pocket finch what the fuck is good what the fuck is going on he had a fresh cargo shorts sparrow damn it try this robin he was in the cargo shorts well ahead of the fucking 1999 oh these are great i can hold so many holy shit there's a lot i can collect them this will last me all day god damn it oh fuck so as a mother you have to really be like you know you want to love your kids and you want to

help your kids and especially if they're vulnerable or sick or i mean clearly that's a sick person i mean that's not a normal person it's just not i'm sorry that's not just oh he's just a misbehaving cut up i i would describe this as unusually mentally disturbed behavior. This is fucked up. Or this is fucked up is a better way to put it. At one point in the 70s, he goes to Florida. Oh, there's so many birds. That's why he's down there. The fish and the birds are everywhere. He moves to Florida.

He left an apartment that he moved into with the cat head and everything. Left that behind. Moves to Florida. Disappears for four months in Florida. Now, while in Florida, he meets a man that he says is a 300-year-old vampire. Oh, boy. He meets this man. Yeah.

And this man tells him that, you know. If you're going to meet one, it's going to be in Florida. Well, yeah. He said, listen, here's what you need to do. That's the thing. If I said, guess where he met a vampire, it's going to be Florida. He went down to Florida, and he met what he thought was a vampire. And apparently, this man told him, look, you're a vampire.

And we're all vampires, clearly. But the problem is, you're a vampire and you know we're all vampires clearly um but the problem is you're a punk ass vampire oh he basically told him like he was a new like he was a prison new jack like he was like look brother he's like everyone in here is gonna keep stealing your fucking fruit cocktail you know what i'm saying he said like we're all gonna keep sucking your blood like sorry you're fucking weak we're gonna keep sucking your blood the only way, it's like a pyramid scheme after that. It turns into the series, like a direct marketing thing

or whatever that is. He says after this, what happens is if you suck other people's blood, though, then it makes you stronger, drives you up the vampire pecking order, and then only the top vampire, and the higher you get,

the less vampires are going to suck your blood until eventually you're the top vampire and the higher you get the less vampires are going to suck your blood till eventually you're the top vampire you're the only one sucking blood vampire amway it's vampire amway it's vampire avon and they're like you have to like it's a vampire pyramid and you have to like you know you have to get vampires under you that you're sucking their blood and then get them to suck other people's blood and then there's just a big chain of blood going on and then everybody gives each other pocket burns and it's happy this would have been if keith verceller was preaching this and the lost boys it would have crushed they could have made a little cash on the side rather than just fucking around

scaring teenagers what the hell is that unbelievable a vampire pyramid scheme that's we've never had never a small town murder first everyone We've never had a small town murder first, everyone. We've never had a vampire pyramid scheme. Oh, and they also said that if you wanted to kill a vampire, he said, listen, now, if one of these fucking vampires comes after you, there's only a couple ways to kill vampires, as you know. First way, first of all, you know, you got to do the stake and get them through the heart, right? But you also have to shoot them. And it's very, very, very important. You can't just shoot them with bullets.

They have to be painted gold. That's important. Right. You have to have gold paint on those bullets. Silver bullets are werewolves. That's werewolves. You have to paint the bullets gold and that keeps the vampires dead. Okay.

So gold bullets. Yeah. I don't know anyone who would have shoot somebody with gold bullets. I know an old lady with gold painted bullets in her. There's some. That's a problem. As if you had any doubt so far. James is suspect number one at this point.

Yeah, I would say so. If not for the cat heads and the pocket birds and the sparrow reduction, at least for the fucking... Incredible. At least for that thing so yeah uh anyway uh other things he had a bunch of other episodes uh leading to him uh being treated at boston university hospital uh taunton state hospital and the mayflower clinic in plymouth uh mass too so what i'm saying is this cat uh has seen the inside of a couple of hospitals and for good reason yeah uh

yeah so he's uh so it was 74 and when he was hospitalized in 74 it was because he stole tear gas gas grenades from a police station at 16 which is a pretty ballsy move that's a hilarious i was gonna say at 16 that's almost an awesome prank like if i was 16 i'm thinking back if I was 16 and one of my friends came with a bunch of fucking tear gas grenades that they stole from the police station, I'd be like, that's fucking awesome. We would have said, that is the coolest thing I've ever seen. Let's find some woods and we're fucking setting those bitches off. We're going to set one off, yeah. Absolutely. We're going in the middle of nowhere.

We're setting this shit off. Yeah, we're going in the middle of nowhere. We're setting this shit off. So he was given the choice at that point to be incarcerated in a juvenile facility or agree to psychiatric hospitalization. He agreed to be hospitalized because it's better than jail. But he reportedly refused all of the recommended medications. Of course. So he doesn't want to be on any meds. Just gladly be here instead of jail.

That's the thing. Absolutely. I don't want to be on any meds. I'll just gladly be here instead of jail. That's the thing. Absolutely. In 1975, he was admitted to the Westwood Lodge after he called a psychiatrist and reported that he was feeling angry toward his father and that his father might be injured or killed if they get in a fight.

So they said, well, okay, let's go ahead and get you. Come on right over. You know what? Man, that's responsible. If you have a mental problem and you know you have if you know you have a problem and you know that you have an issue and people have issues and that's sure shit man that's that's life very common it's very common and it's nothing to you know that we need to we shouldn't be pushing these people in the closets or anything like that that's not the way this shit works uh but if he's responsible enough to go hey i'm having

these thoughts where i want to kill my fucking father. And if I'm going to get a fight and I'm going to kill him rather than do that, he calls a psychiatrist who he knows to say, I'm having these thoughts. And the psychiatrist says, we should probably put you in a hospital. He says, OK, that's responsible. That's that's realizing that you're thinking outside of the box. At least notice a pattern of behavior. You know where the box is killing someone not not in a box that's you know that's outside the realm of normal so i should call someone uh so he ended

up leaving against medical advice though the hospital and uh stopping all of his medications so that's that's not great uh and then he was uh he was admitted to boston university hospital in the summer of 78 that was for for the cat mutilation incident. When they found out about that, he told his mom about that. She told the psychiatrist. And they were like, let's go ahead and talk to him. That's not normal. Again.

But from Boston University Hospital, he was transferred to Taunton State Hospital because he was perceived as a dangerous person by the staff and they couldn't handle him there so he needed to be in a more secure location uh while he was there uh this is where finally medically they they determined that he's quote acutely psychotic yeah i could have told you that just clinically just based on what i read i don't even need i didn't need to really examine the guy i understand that's not how psychiatry works you need to examine someone but if you tell me someone's getting fucking bird pocket birds i'm sorry man i'm gonna say i think they might have an issue yeah just off the top of my head and acute in medical terms means fucking right now like very unexpected quickly very and and sharp and and pointed yes literally pointed that's not like math where acute means minor and small no well problem acute is pointy that's the thing yeah pointed like

gonna happen right now like a fucking arrow that's very very uh descriptive uh so uh it's acutely psychotic uh they said uh listen um this is in a psychiatrist reports he cuts up animals he drinks their blood this happens more than once. He believes that he needs the blood in order to survive. As we described earlier, the vampire pyramid scheme. He doesn't want to be at the bottom getting all the sucking done to you. You want to be the sucker, not the sucky here, pal. It's like any suck.

It's like any suck. And it's like a weird thing here. So it would be the sucker. Well, there's certain sucking where that's not true. I don't think. For me better to be the sucker. Well, there's certain sucking words. That's not true, I don't think. For me personally. For me personally, I'd rather be the sucky on certain sucks than the sucker. But this guy, if you're in a vampire pyramid scheme, you need to be the sucker.

So they said that's a weird thing. They said that he suffered from, you know, he had a bunch of delusional thoughts. He insisted that people were trying to kill him. His delusions included the belief that the staff of the hospital were trying to poison him. This is very common among if you read any books about prison. So any a lot of the mentally ill inmates believe that the staff is trying to poison. Yeah, they won't take their medications because they think it's poison yeah they won't take their medications because they think it's poison they won't eat their food because they think it's poison like that's a super common thing in a bit like a paranoid to get me yeah it's it's the poison

thing it's very specific to poison though because it's like this plot that they have because you die from that yeah and you die from it but it's something you can't see that's why you know it's there it's a real like a conspiracy weird thing uh he so yeah he also at one point while he was at taunton he uh crawled through the air vent ducts like fucking die hard and and the ceiling and escaped the place wow that is really crazy that why is that even an option i can't believe they had vents that you men could crawl through and that nobody did that all the time i would think that would happen every day if people could just crawl through the air vents in a place like that make those tubes fucking small make them small yeah

get they get three small ones instead of one big one let's make it so a guy can't fit in there i mean we've all seen all these movies what are we doing here it's unbelievable good god so he did that he escaped at one point uh he ends up also having psychiatric treatment through Mayflower Counseling. He was referred for testing and diagnosed at that time with undifferentiated type schizophrenia and impulse disorder. This is his first real diagnosis of a, you know, before that, they literally were like, not sure. Put him in the random crazy pile. Back then, especially, there was no like, he's fucking crazy. I don't know.

That's all they thought of it. Pocket bird pile. Right. Everybody with pocket birds. Right. He's going to be the cook over there and sell Block B. But that's a zinger, too, of a diagnosis. Oh, that's a bad one.

That's a tough one. Yeah, he's all fucked up is what they're saying. In 1980, he was again referred to Mayflower Counseling through the Plymouth District Court. This was to determine if he was a dangerous and emotionally unstable person. This court thing in the Plymouth District Court. It was, they didn't understand. Looking back, we don't understand why the court was involved, but they think it's because he had requested a gun permit. This guy applied for a gun permit.

I mean, it's easier than chasing the birds up in the trees. It's an easier way to get them. Don't get me wrong. But still, he's just been climbing in the trees waiting. Also, what kind of gun? A rifle or a handgun? Because a handgun. You don't need a permit for a rifle.

So I would assume a handgun. That's a tough get. A bird with a handgun. That's a tough get on a bird. With a handgun? That's true. Jesus. A rifle is a... You don't need a permit for a rifle or a shotgun. Really?

Out there? Is that what it is? Anybody can buy it anywhere. Really? That's... I mean, here, you can buy whatever the fuck you want. Yeah, yeah. No, no.

Rifle or a shotgun is... You can buy that anywhere for hunting or for sport or shit like that. For playing? Yeah. Yeah. You can't buy, you know, fucking handguns in other places than Arizona and the South. So, in the world, really.

Well, Arizona, the South, the lawless areas of Cambodia, I believe you can still just buy machine guns in a fucking parking lot like you can here. Just in a, oh, it's a gun show. Here, here's a machine gun. Guy I just met, sure, no problem. center part of australia where nobody's at yeah yeah just yeah if you meet with two pickup trucks with the heads of kangaroos as hood ornaments you can fucking trade shit there i can see you back there through the eyes or through the reflection of the kangaroo eye

or through perfect legality in fucking half the states in America. Either one. You know, those situations or that. But fine. So but he goes for a gun permit, which is denied. Yeah. Thank God. Let's be honest here.

Yeah. No, you're not giving the pocket bird guy a fucking thing. Gun permit. So he's battling to pay in seagull feather. Come on. That's not going to work. A plume. No, I'm sorry.

So, yeah, it's so it's all sorts of things here. Also, in addition, I forgot to mention this earlier. The spaceship. Yeah. Remember the spaceship? He's hearing. Well, this spaceship took the relationship to the next level. First, it was just sending voices.

And as one does, you call, you text, things like that. Drop social media things. Here, this time, I would say this is a spaceship version of going steady and getting serious. The spaceship had put a transmitter in his head, which is, you know, it's like putting a ring on your finger, I think. You gotta know where it is. Spaceship style. Tell him what to do.

I gotta know if he did it. I gotta know if he's doing it or not. And finger, I think, spaceship style. Tell him what to do. I got to know if he did it. I got to know if he's doing it or not. And that the transmitter was directing his body. So he didn't even have control over his body anymore. This was all through a spaceship radio transmitter thing that was happening, directing all of his bird cooking and ketchup boiling and everything else. He also, but he figured out a way to thwart this because, you know, every once in a while you need a minute to yourself.

It's like putting something up in front of a security camera to block it or something. Every once in a while he would wear a cardboard pyramid over his head. Oh, yeah. Because his mother said that he's told her, well, I'm wearing this because, quote, the pyramid fixes my brains. So he's really on a mission to fix his brains. I'll give him that. He wants to fix his brains. He's looking to.

He's looking for cat solutions. He's looking for cardboard pyramids if that's a possibility. And nothing fixes his brain. That's a problem. So, yeah. Also, anytime he lived at home and wasn't in a hospital from about between 75 and 78-ish before he went to Florida and popped a cat's head off in his own apartment and all that shit and met the head vampire and was recruited into Amway and all that, whenever he was home,

the family would lock their bedroom doors and at least one member of the family would stay awake at all times when he was there. They literally had like a night watch with him. We can't all sleep because who knows? He could butcher us all. That's nuts. Everybody lock in and one person stay awake and make sure that way we can call the cops if he starts running amok.

Those are the precautions you have to have just to have someone in your house. Holy shit. Get him the fuck out of your house. I've never had someone stay in my house where we had that kind of precaution on it before where it was like lock them down and have the phone in your hand dial nine one and fucking sit there could happen at any second where's his watcher no sleeping thermos of coffee next to you just a pocket full of birds ready for the morning good lord you know

that's that caught on in the family everybody was doing it the beaks are chewy or you keep them and you toss them to the other side of the room give you it. The beaks are chewy. Or you keep them and you toss them to the other side of the room and give you time to get away. That's what you do. You keep them and you go, he runs after it like a dog.

It's like throwing a guard dog a steak in a cartoon. He goes and eats it and you run the other direction. So obviously this isn't good. Finally, 1979, no one else can handle him. He ends up moving in

with someone who could use some help his grandmother okay he lives with his grandmother carmen uh lopez here for a period of about eight or nine months in 1979 uh now he'd been living there but finally she is tired of having him there uh she asked him to move out not because because of his sauteed sparrow special. Was he wandering around the house screaming, pocket robin? Pocket robin's in the pyramid on his head. Pocket robin. Crunch, crunch.

Crunch, crunch, crunch. Pocket robin. Crunchity crunch. Ooh, pocket robin. Your beak is so crunchy. Crunch, crunching. Crunching robin. Crunchin' Robin. Pocket Robin.

So gross. Ooh, Pocket Robin. You've got wings that are so feathery. Pocket Robin. Ooh, Pocket Robin. I'm gonna fuckin' vomit. Awesome. That'd be twice in a month I'd do that to you.

I'd love to. My goal is to kill a man with laughter. It was so close. I choked it back. Pocket Robin's a good song. I couldn't tell if it was hilarity or the grossness. It's both. It was close.

Ooh, Pocket Robin. God, it's so gross. So if all those things weren't enough, she also doesn't like that they get into constant arguments about, this is what's amazing, okay? All of this shit is going on with him you know what his grandmother's pissed off at him about his long hair his long hair that's the least of your concerns with this kid i don't give a shit what you do to the cats or horses or any other goddamn thing but get a haircut hippie fucking hair's gotta go that's amazing to me first of all

and also his lack of employment because but how do you keep a this guy have a job for christ's sake it's unless he's like one of those county animal collectors he'd be great at that yeah they're already dead right let's get him on that job day one though in the break room though what the fuck are you making what is going? Put that frying pan down. He's like, no, no, it's gourmet. That was our office cat, you jerk. You dick. So at some point, he moves out of his grandma's house without any incident.

He begins living with his grand uncle, Henry Lopez. And on April 9th, 1980, this is the day before the fire, James tells his grand uncle henry lopez that he was going to plymouth the next day to see about a job so that's what's what he's been told the following morning which is the 10th of april uh henry lopez drives james to braintree uh where his father worked james's father and uh there james borrowed his father's car and uh and and drove away so he needed a car to go apply for a job that's what he said and they said sure take you over there hey there he goes you're out of town shit yeah yeah he's trying to get his he's trying to clean his act up too shit let him do it uh you never deny an unemployed person who you've been begging

to get a job a ride to the job to go get one like that's shit here take this take here's 20 bucks for lunch and fucking put a shine on that car, too, while you're at it. Show up there looking good. So he does that. He has the car. About 1.45 p.m., James is at an auto supply store, like an auto parts store. And he runs into an old high school teacher of his at that point. Because, you know, he's in his 20s now.

But he runs into a high school teacher of his who he talks to for a couple minutes. They talk about the teacher's going to fix the brake lining on his car or something. So they bullshit about, oh, what are you here for? What parts? And who the hell knows? The teacher says not a thing about him was unusual. You know, he wasn't munching on a bird or anything. Like he was, you know.

Picking his teeth with tail feathers. That's it. Abnormally normal. Just normal, doing fine. At that point, James drives to his grandmother's neighborhood, and he parks around the corner, about 150 yards away from the house. Everything here. This is about three o'clock.

When he arrives, his grandmother is alone and she's on the couch lying down. She asks him if he would do some, if he would wash some clothes for her because the washer and dryer are in the basement. So it's very hard for her to get downstairs. To get downstairs.

She goes from couch to wheelchair and doesn't get around well. So she says, now that you're here, can you please throw a load of wash in for me? That'd be really helpful. So he goes downstairs. He starts doing laundry. He then notices or remembers downstairs what he has downstairs. Hidden in the basement is a gun, which he has painted gold, and a bunch of bullets,

which he has also painted gold. So he has that. Apparently, just while the laundry was going on, he walked upstairs. His grandmother was sitting there. He apparently shot her once. When he shot her, she threw a glass of water at him because that's all she had to defend herself.

She's a helpless old lady. Or she knows that water kills vampires. Or she's like, shit, that's witches she had to defend herself she's a uh helpless old lady or she knows that water kills vampires or she's like shit that's witches damn it and then she she thought of the wizard of oz shit if it was only blessed fuck so yeah damn it burn them so uh if only i had paid more attention in church so this poor woman she literally has nothing else to defend herself with so she just tosses a glass of water in his direction which obviously is not much of a defense uh so uh he shoots her a couple more times at that point uh then he decides that uh you know she's a vampire so i better make sure and stab her right also yeah you know obviously because it's a vampire situation and uh he says, fuck, now what am I supposed to do with her? She's going to come back to life.

I mean, that's what happens. She's going to come back to life. She's going to then suck my blood. She's going to turn to dust. That's the thing. So he didn't know what to do. So he carried her into the bedroom and poured dry gas over her and set her on fire. That's his solution.

And then he went back out rolled the wheelchair into the bedroom they're like okay put everything in the bedroom there we go gas i don't know what dry gas is but it's interesting it's flammable yeah apparently and he had bought it that afternoon where at the auto supply store while he was talking to that teacher good that's what he was buying was dry gas wow and uh this guy yeah he was a container for it or whatever the hell something to do with the dry gas uh yeah so uh he does that then he walks outside hops in his father's car and goes and picks his dad up while the house is on fire while it's on fire he just not only the house and his grandmother in there uh at one point during the drive to get his father

he pulled over to the side of the road and uh he had put the gun in a tackle box that he had with him and he put the tackle box in a small ditch and covered it with leaves at one point that's his way of stashing it uh at that point his father gets a phone call uh right about when james arrives to pick his dad up from work he gets a phone call at work alerting him that his mother's house is on fire which is an issue uh so then they drive to his grandmother's house you know like you would and when they get there obviously the police are questioning them do you know anything about this were you guys here was it on fire 20 minutes ago you know normal shit that you'd ask and uh james admits that he was at uh his grandmother's house earlier in the day. He says, I was here earlier and it wasn't on fire.

Yeah, so they don't take him in or anything. He goes home. Everything's fine. The next day, they take him in for some additional questioning, and he's arrested. He's charged with first-degree murder. He doesn't admit shit at first. He will not admit anything, nothing. He doesn't admit shit at first.

He will not admit anything. Nothing. In the investigation, the fire lieutenant found a gray metal box in the house. It's a gray metal box. It didn't burn. He gave this to the fire chief who gave it to the police department. And inside this metal box was some of James' papers and some gold-painted bullets. Oh, no. Which is a bad sign yeah it's not a pretty good evidence there and uh uh so this is what made uh this is why they ended up

taking him in for additional questioning because they're like you know hey we found some gold on those bullets son uh so at that point uh while lieutenant lopes of Marshfield Police Department was questioning him, James jumps up and punches him and tries to run away. Wow. So that's also a terrible tip of a bad poker player. Bad poker face. That's not a good enough. That's a tell.

That would be like you got a pair of threes and there's a lot of money on the table and you just throw the table, tip it over, kick everybody out of their chairs and run away. And you're like, what are you talking about? I didn i had a great hand i was winning that hand that's crazy picking up cards off a bit of a tell clearly this is clearly my hand yeah i had all these aces it's fucking ridiculous uh so they arrest him at least for that and then they you know talk about the gold box and all that kind of shit and they go this is probably our guy let's charge him with first degree murder too and assaulting a police officer on top of that because you can't do that uh they found a small silver knife on him that's all they found on him uh now after the arrest his mother goes to visit him yeah on june 10th oh boy uh because she's just she doesn't know

what to do here uh uh so at that point uh he tells her while she visits him that quote his brain was on fire and the voices were really bad in his head at this moment which now nana's on fire you dick there's a lot he picked choose chose bad words uh there and the and also this type of stressor situation will make if you have a mental illness another thing they talk about with prison or even any any sort of uh involuntary incarceration uh if you have a mental illness to begin with even one that's under control that amount of stress is a huge exacerbator on that and makes people yeah it makes people do you know things they maybe wouldn't normally do and they say even people who are mentally stable get in that situation. And sometimes they snap.

You never know. So if this person has got some unidentified schizophrenic disorder and you put him under this kind of pressure, you know, he's fucking losing it. So, yes, heads on fire. He says voices are really bad in his head. They also said that he also said, quote, the mother said, what happened? What happened? Tell me. I'm your mother. What happened?

So he said, quote, I've been a vampire for four years. That's what he says. He said, voices told me I had to be a vampire and I had to drink blood for a long time. I've just been I've been talking with the devil for a long time. Also, maybe it's just in my head. I don't know i ask questions and you know it's the devil who answers me which that's what happens when you put it out there anybody could answer i guess it's an open line he's got like he did like a breaker breaker

one nine anybody out there and the only person out on the highway uh you know shouting into their their hand box is the devil it's a lonely night out there on the road why couldn't you just be gay god damn it breaker breaker one nine i got a i got a big problem anybody out there can help me over how you doing there pal yeah no no it's it's uh uh my handle it's uh not the devil that's why i'm not the devil. That's why. I'm not the devil. Yes. No, no. Son, tell me more. Tell me more. Don't kill or anything like that.

Not right now. Maybe don't. Not the devil. That's me. His pronoun, satin. It's satin, not the devil. My last name, one word, not the devil. That's the word.

So the devil answers him. What do you want? She said that he told her that he painted some bullets gold with paint because vampires in Florida, Florida vampires, the worst kind, told him that gold tip bullets would find their mark. And he also said he had met the vampires in Florida, and he said that he knew some of these vampires for a fact were over 200 years old. The ones in Florida. I'm a level three now. They just look bad because they're always out in the sun they don't wear any sunscreen they're really only 52 but they look 85 and he thinks they're 200 that's really how it works down there i feel like uh so he said uh i thought it would be just one bullet because it

was gold and it would find its mark you know right but it wasn't I had to shoot her a bunch and then she still wasn't fucking dead. So I stabbed her and she still wasn't dead. And that's why he set her on fire because she's a vampire. You can't kill her. So he did say at that point before he set her on fire, he did do one thing. Remember we said the bullet moons were a little weird and they're trying to figure out what was done with them.

Well, he said, quote, I then drank her blood because that's that's what the vampire told me to do he sucked her blood through the hole he put his mouth over the bullet wounds while she's alive mind you god and tried to suck her blood and that's your grandma uh she said quote uh uh yeah that's because that's what a vampire told me to do uh uh he said that he tried but he was unsuccessful uh because he couldn't drink any of his grandmother's blood because quote she was old and dried up and i kept telling the voices all day

i couldn't do it i tried voices my christ uh wow he then said i poured dry gas over her and set her on fire he said he then went to north river and marshfield where he then tried to kill himself that was the original plan that's where he ended up putting the gun down and putting the leaves over it uh was he was going there to kill himself and he decided to just leave the guns behind the gun behind because he said that the voices told him that his body would be mutilated by them if he committed suicide. It's like, if you kill yourself, we're going to fuck your body up. And he was like, oh, shit, never mind. And for our sake, I'm kind of glad he didn't.

This is an amazing story told by him. This is crazy. Wow. He said that he told him, he told his mother then, the next thing, that everybody, he said that basically he believed, in the vampire, you know, in the whole vampire pyramid business, he believed that, uh,

this is wow. That if he quote killed everybody who was bad to him, he would come back as a handsome man and have a car and girls and his life would be fine. Ooh, that's, that's what he was. That's the goal.

That's the goal. Car and girls, car and girls. Now, first of all, all you need to do is make money to do that. You'll get a car and not all girls will like cars and money,

but some do, and if you want just a girl, substance doesn't matter to you. If you get some money and cars, you'll find a few girls that'll be willing to hang out with you. Enough. Come back as a handsome man. That might be the kicker. And have a car and girls.

He's a normal looking guy. Honestly, he's a normal looking dude. Doesn't look terrible. No, he looks like an actor. I can't place him, but he looks like a certain actor. He looks like a character actor, not a leading man. But he's not a horrible looking... Not somebody where you'd be like, oh, Jesus Christ.

Yeah, I can see he's disfigured. Hollywood accepts him. Character actor. He's the friend okay he's the the the lead's friend okay yeah the lead actor george costanza though he's not costanza but he's like the lead actor's like wingman oh okay type of guy he's not quite as attractive as the lead guy but he's kind of got a spunk to him and he you know his birds in his pocket and he's got a great sparrow recipe you know how it works jeremy we've all seen that ever meant to comedy we've all seen that one you're like come on katherine heigl go out with bird guy he's right fucking in front of you and then she just doesn't that helms is a dentist for christ's sake date him she picks the handsome guy what are you gonna do so uh girl and cars and his life would be fine yeah uh so yeah

he described everything that was to uh to his mother uh the basement everything going down there he says as he approached her he shot her once through the glass of water he shot her again he then uh he thought she was dead so he dragged the body into her bedroom and retrieved her wheelchair uh ripped open her pajamas and sucked the blood from the bullet holes. But she wasn't actually dead. Then he poured dry gas on her, which he got earlier, and lit her body and set her on fire. She was dead by then. He said he was only in the house 10 minutes.

From the time he came over to the time flames were burning through her bedroom. 10 minutes. 10 minutes. Wow. Just enough time to put in a load of laundry and kill an old woman and suck the blood out of her wounds uh he also like i said uh uh he tried to kill himself he told her he said uh quote then he says quote i didn't stab her and i didn't hit her on the head like they said i did but i did drink her blood because

you know i have to because that's what vampires do. That's his exact quote. Quote, I didn't stab her and I didn't hit her on the head like they said I did, but I then drank her blood because, you know, I have to because that's what vampires do. Where the hell did the stab wounds come from? And then, well, that's the thing. You did stab her. And then after a while, he sat there and paused and then said, quote, I didn't want it to happen. And I kept telling the voice all day that I couldn't do it. he's like i don't know it's just they kept breaking my balls

so you know what are you gonna do for christ's sake his wife texts you enough you're gonna do whatever she asks yeah uh the uh autopsy they said that quote uh she didn't die instantly she burned alive oh jesus no she was unconscious they believe but she was not dead when the fire started fuck so that's you know that is horrible she wasn't alive and kicking and fucking oh my god i'm in pain she was unconscious her eyes are closed but she's still on wind she's still alive so that's just horrible so obviously the first thing they're going to do when they arrest him is they're going to try to figure out his mental status let's figure out if this guy's prosecutable because he is undeniably a fucking coco puff i mean he's out of his goddamn mind one bird short of a flock but it's because he ate it he ate it it's in his fucking pocket that's

the problem no he's got the bird it's in his pocket that's it he's just he did he is going to eat it later and then he's going to have one bird short so jesus christ so that felt good that was good it was really good so he's at the plymouth house of correction yeah uh first he was at at the uh he's in different psychiatric they put him in one place and they move him to another place they're trying to figure out where the fuck to hold him uh what to do with him uh finally uh on march 19th 1981 a superior court judge finds that he is not competent to stand trial but then it's odd in the next couple months the conclusion is reversed and they'd say he is competent to stand trial and they take him to trial oh boy not sure the details of that uh but they admit all

the hospital records and all that sort of shit and everything was there uh the trial opens with his defense attorney here who is john t spinale and what a fucking job he's got set out for him how do you make all you have to do is say he's obviously mentally ill i don't know what else you say you can't say he's a good guy you know he's his grandmother's a she's a vampire what the fuck do you want he's she's a fucking vampire what are you people stupid jesus of course you'd sit there and let her poison you and then let her suck your blood and go up the fucking pyramid while you stay at the bottom that's not him he's not a punk all right you be a punk bitch that's not him what is happening put it on the stand and ask him what's for lunch. When he says pelican, acquit him. It's over.

It's fucking over. So he tells the jury that his client shot his grandmother and sucked the blood out of the bullet holes because he believed a vampire told him that's what he had to do. Which is a good start on an insanity angle here. There is 11 male and five female jurors. They have the alternates. And then at the end, they don't know exactly know who's how that works uh he says quote during the course of the trial you will hear evidence that the defendant during his lifetime felt he needed human and animal blood he had a regular habit of not eating normal meals

he ate what he found at the evening what he found in the evening. What he found in the evening? Was he a feral cat? Vampires are not feral cats. He's totally mixed up this shit. He ate what he found in the evening and that during the evening he found animal blood. That's his defense attorney's opening statement. Son, I'm going to defend you.

He wanders the streets and kills your pets and sucks their blood yeah you want him back out on the street right acquit him but he didn't kill his grandma well he did but he's better now all right let's send him home it's the only thing we can do ladies and gentlemen the only moral thing to do is to send this young man home obviously so uh uh the uh assistant district attorney uh objected to his to the reference to his so-called vampire activities. But the judge said, hey, if he wants to say he's a fucking vampire, that's his right. If he's got a vampire defense, what are we going to say? No.

I mean, come on. You know what? Go ahead. Vampire it is. Proceed. I want to hear this mainly is what it is. I don't even care if it's legal. Yeah.

Just I really want to hear this vampire shit because it's interesting. Hurry it up. I'm taping. Let's go. I'm going to talk to this later. So he says the evidence that you will hear goes beyond who killed Carmen Lopez. That's not the issue. Well, it's a murder trial.

So kind of. There's other. Yeah. He says the evidence is strong that Jimmy Riva killed his grandmother. Obviously, he says that he's a loner and a loner who had no friends, which is a loner, and that he spent his evenings, quote, roaming the countryside, which she's, you know, like a vampire, like a vampire or a fucking feral wolf or a dog. His behavior became so bizarre that his family and law enforcement people were unable to

determine what to do with him, which is actually true. They didn't know whether to send him to an uncle's house, put him in a facility, just keep him in Florida with all the other fucking maniacs. Who knows? So who knows? Yeah, there's lots of birds. He's down there at HQ.

He's killing meth falcons left and right, taking them right out of the sky. I've developed a bird and meth habit. Yeah, he's fucking pounding meth. So, oh, man. So the prosecutor's statement's a little bit different, but kind of the same, honestly. He's a crazy fuck and blah, blah, blah. But kind of the same, honestly. He's a crazy fuck and blah, blah, blah.

He said that he would prove that James shot his grandmother, who was an invalid, confined to a wheelchair with a.38 caliber handgun, then stabbed her and, quote, in an effort to conceal his crime, lit her body on fire as well as left the house in the area. That's what they're trying to say. As crazy as he is, he tried to cover his tracks. So if you try to get away with something, then you knew it was then hence you're not crazy that's the rule it used to be if you're crazy you're crazy then i think it was the 70s people do crazy shit yeah in the 70s they changed it to oh no no it's not good enough to be crazy you have to literally not know what planet you're on that's the only way that you're mentally ill in the eyes of the law yeah it's fucking weird so uh he said that the two slugs were taken from her body they were painted gold they found five more gold tip bullets found upstairs in the metal box they found fucking

gold gun with gold bullets in his box that was his and the whole that found the tackle box yeah yeah yeah that's right they're doing the whole they're telling you know they're just they're putting the evidence together in a neat little package here. There's a lot of doctor testimony here. Three psychiatrists for the defense testified that all said that he's not criminally responsible for the murder. One of the psychiatrists, wow, this is a really clinical term, guys. Get Google out or whatever medical dictionary you're going to need to look this up because it's it's kind of it's a little technically in court use layman terms yeah this this is a little too nuanced for your layman and your average person uh dr daniel m weiss of newton uh described

uh riva as quote crazy so very alerted very oh crazy that's a is that a medical term or went to college for that shit he literally got out there he's fucking bat shit he's crazier than a shithouse rat this fucking guy i'm telling you somebody say rat i am hungry i'm fuck he's he's looking around where somebody say bat that flies it'll do where i'll eat it raw don't worry uh so under cross examination this this guy said that uh dr weiss said that as a result of mental disease or defect that james was unable unable to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law which is like the stated law of what you have to be to be crazy uh so they said they asked him

did the defendant tell you he wasn't a vampire at the time he killed his grandmother and the doctor said this is a good this doctor's amazing he's fucking crazy okay elaborate they said so they asked him that question was he not was he or wasn't he a vampire when he killed his grandmother the answer is quote he wasn't he wasn't what the fuck kind of answer is that then he elaborates he goes he wasn't he wasn't quote he had tasted other blood he wasn't a real vampire quote let's just say he was working on it who is this guy who is this doctor oh he's crazy okay well that's not a medical term he's like he's like not a real doctor he's like a will ferrell character will ferrell character

in an snl sketch where then they chase him out of the court he's not a real doctor he's like he's like not a real doctor he's like a will ferrell character will ferrell character in an snl sketch where then they chase him out of the court he's not a real doctor he's like an inmate that knocked a psychiatrist over and took his suit and put it on and pretended to be one on the stand no no no judge i said call jerry gallo gallo not callow i see at the end of the sketch like a a guy in like a you know boxer shorts and a t-shirt which comes in holding his head going that's the guy officer and will ferrell jumps off the stand and runs out i said he's crazy they tackle him he wasn't he wasn't he wasn't he wasn't let's just say he was working on it wow uh they said then isn't it inconsistent that he feared vampires but at the same time wanted to be one?

Well, I mean, I don't know. Then the doctor said, that's what makes him crazy. I swear to God. That is not me saying that. That's not me making this up. Isn't it fucking nuts? That's what he says. He says, quote, that's what makes him crazy

this fucking doctor is a lot of fun at parties i'll say that you know the two of us are having this conversation deducing what's fucking nuts and what's not that guy he can't do this conversation because he's fucking crazy that's what makes him crazy i mean he's entertaining i don't know if i'd want him to care for me in a medical he's so much fun with this guy this is why i said you don't even need us making jokes for this episode you could read this and just be like what so what is happening our episode this week is just a pdf file of the court documents. Enjoy. Fuck, it's crazy as shit. Or James pauses after every testimonial word from a doctor for you guys to laugh his balls off.

Insanity. Yeah, there's like a page space in between each one. Give you a minute to laugh. Turn to this one. Be right back. Yeah. He says, quote, that's what makes him crazy. So far, three.

Oh, that's not the end. That's what makes him crazy. That's his quote's that's not the end that's just that's what makes him crazy that's his quote so this guy has some awesome let's just say he was working on it that's what makes him crazy he's he's he's gold this guy uh so three uh three defense psychologists uh have uh diagnosed him as a scare uh as a paranoid schizophrenic uh basically which is like hears voices thinks he's somebody else that's like one of the ones where okay maybe you're too crazy to go to jail because you don't even person you don't know what's happening right yeah it's that sort of thing here uh but uh the uh a fourth psychiatrist uh said

that uh that he was a manic depressive with features of delusional mania which is a less it's still it's not quite that good it's not it's not wonderful you don't want to have that no uh now under direct examination here uh the one guy said that he talks about the voice of god and all that sort of thing he said the first time that riva says he heard the voice of god was 1977 he was quote chopping down a tree in the woods with an axe and he heard a voice say to him thou shall not cut down maple trees which is not a commandment i don't believe god gives a shit about maple trees if there is a god i don't think maple trees are big on the list of not cutting them down if so canada's going to hell yeah it's one kid with an axe i don't think he was going to take the whole

forest so it wasn't a real big deal uh now uh this doctor said that he that uh james believed all white people were vampires that's what he believed i mean uh all vampires are white but not usually people are well yeah it's the way he says no no all white people are vampires that's his belief okay but blacks were not vampires as quote quote but blacks were not vampires that's why they are black oh boy what i don't understand what that means racist it's like it's racist and weird but like that's what i did and it's also completely uh nonsensical which is i don't understand how those things connect that's damn near mormon okay yeah so let me get this straight you're white because you're a vampire

and then everyone else isn't a you're not you're black because you're not a vampire you're white because you are a vampire black is baseline and then if you enter amway vampire pyramid scheme you become white like the mormons used to say back in the day that you get lighter the more you believed in mormon, which was an actual thing. That's the thing. That's why black people are that color. So that's what he says. He goes, blacks were not vampires.

That's why they are black. These thoughts have stayed with him for over the past four years. They come and go. You know, he's working on it. So good. So a psychiatrist for the prosecution said that that James was aware of wrongdoing and criminally responsible for the murder of his grandmother uh he disagreed with all four psychiatrists that said that he was a paranoid schizophrenic or a manic depressive he says he's just an asshole no that's not what he

says that would have been great though i think he's just kind of a dick now he says uh he uh diagnoses him with borderline personality disorder which is that's a little that's entirely different. So it's different in all these and way and way lighter than than where I think this guy is suffering from here. Now, at the end, the the the judge instructed the jury that he defended cannot be held responsible for what he has done if, because of mental illness, he lacked, first, substantial ability to appreciate the wrongfulness of his act, or, not and, or, second, he lacked ability to control his impulses according to the law. They said that if he's told the jury if that's the case, the jurors could find him not guilty in the first degree,

but guilty in the second degree, if that's how that works. And'm a juror on this stand on this in this jury i'm looking at he said that the voices told him to do it but he couldn't do it yeah and then he could now do it all of a sudden yeah that story alone just says go fuck yourself sir yes and the verdict is though he is found guilty of second degree murder. Wow. Second degree murder. I think the jury's so confused by fucking dead birds and psychiatrists and weird shit that they're just like, I don't fucking know.

Just lock him up. Yeah. Just lock him up. Whatever. That locks him up for a long time, and that's good enough for us. So he's found guilty. Plus, there's other things, too. Okay.

Second degree murder. He's also found guilty of arson obviously uh guilty of assault and battery on a police officer when he's questioned so they didn't didn't forget that little nugget didn't throw that one away he had cops they tend to remember that shit uh as they read the verdict he showed no emotions uh this was only a three-hour deliberation they were just probably figuring out first and second degree and that was about it and it was nine men and three women with the final jury sentencing comes around yeah uh uh the judge says uh to you you mr vampire you sir may fuck off uh sentences him to life in prison

at the walpole state prison on the murder charge and then concurrently to be served with a 19 to 20 years on the arson charge. Now you're eating crow. Now you're eating crow. Wow. Yeah, I would say so. And yeah, and then they add a little bit more for the charge of battery. You can get life for second degree. Oh, yeah.

Life for second. Now that's life with parole. Right. But it's still life. He's eligible for parole, though, in 15 years. Oh, my God. So that's life. Yeah.

So there you go. Because life, I believe, is like 30, really. And then it's 15. It depends on the state. He's young. And he's young. That's what I mean. All right.

November 1984, he has an appeal. Yeah. He wants a new trial. Oh, boy. He's been wrong, Jimmy. Yeah. He's tired of all this crow. Yeah.

He's eating this crow, and he wants a sparrow now. Yeah. He's really tired of it he says he's suffered from chronic form of schizophrenia which causes him the lacks substantial capacity to conform his behavior you know blah blah blah what the law says uh the doctors he has doctors that back him up some doctors don't back him up uh they said uh no no one of these four psychiatrists who testified first saw Riva until about eight months after the killing of his grandmother when he had been sometime under medications used to attempt to tone down the visible effects of psychosis. They said that one witness referred to hospital records showing treatment of Riva there shortly after the killing when medication was prescribed to prevent assaults on people.

So they're saying that even if you thought he was sane, you thought he was sane because he was medicated for the last eight months. You didn't see him when he came in wild-eyed with a pocket full of robins. That was a different guy. You know what I mean? You might have had a different opinion of him then is what they're getting at. One robin is too many. pocketful holy shit a pocketful you're acquitted i'm sorry it's just chirping wow yeah whoa well not anymore no he just he just hits

it when it's sharp he just slaps every once in a while he just slaps the leg of his cargo shorts what happened he's like nothing not a terrible man oh god that's so ridiculous jesus christ gross so uh yeah he said uh uh they talk about all the different uh psychiatrists uh one they say they try to say that he's fine is they get a tape of one of these psychiatrists talking to him and on the tape they say that James was able to respond cogently to questions

put to him. He understood the questions he made responses denying his involvement and even possibilities as to what might have happened like he was saying well this might have happened you know other vampires might have come for her soul but he he didn't say vampires on the lower chain you know how it goes i've moved up since then i mean jesus he was not confused he was able to organize his thoughts he was not the behavior of someone in a someone who in a state that would

interfere with the requisite capacities so he's saying that he was fine uh that riva could manage his behavior and operate in a way that would be consistent with his self-interest and So he's saying that he was fine, that Reva could manage his behavior and operate in a way that would be consistent with his self-interest and that he's fucking fine. They talk about they keep saying borderline personality disorder. They say he's a person who's, quote, not capable of really mature relationships with other people and is likely to, quote, develop a large fantasy system around him. They said it's usually happens. Usually such persons have a history of being in trouble, either with the law or school authorities. So that's him.

I mean, that defines him. The judge, they find the judge properly denied the finding that he was not guilty by reason of insanity and that his appeal is denied and he gets no new trial and he can fuck off now in 1987 uh he's in jail yeah and he becomes somehow okay this is weird there's an inmate who hangs himself in jail last name of mcginnis okay uh he hangs himself and they have this article this it's an article about just like people who kill themselves in prison they have a bunch of these recent suicides in prison and so they talk about this mcginnis guy in his article they discuss it with james riva for some reason oh boy they

talk to him from the phone in prison somehow he's the fucking representative this is your press this is your press secretary james riva uh he says, he was very distraught about a lot of things of the suicidal man. He didn't really think he had a chance of ever getting out of here because of the hostage ordeal, because he had taken hostages. Yeah. He said, and a lot of officers didn't like him because he had taken someone hostage. So he said, you know, it doesn't make everyone here is not surprised he killed himself, basically. But why? He's the fucking spokesman. what is that who called him how does he have a phone number how do you get him on the line unless the the reporter or whatever is like this will be a fun

one yeah well that's the other thing how does any reporter worth their salt how do they talk to that guy and even discuss some dude hanging himself in a cell and it's like you're a vampire let's talk about that yeah fuck that guy what'd you have for dinner last night let's discuss that first because that's press worthy you know it's crazy so you got a hot plate in yourself tell me about jesus christ don't give him any ketchup so 1990 uh he's in prison he's charged with attempted murder not for attacking another prisoner but for attacking a corrections officer uh he attacks a co and he has a piece of metal uh like a signpost type of thing that he's fashioned into a shank you know like and people do in prison he's got a big it's a big long one too it's not even like a little tiny one it's gonna hide that who the

fuck knows he's got a big long prison shank who knows what job he was doing or whatever people have access to different shit he stabs a co in the head wow uh stabs a co in the head and then beats him with a mop handle afterwards the man lived wow luckily what a tough dude yeah well he's a fucking prison guard he's a co those guys are usually you gotta be kind of tough, I would think, to not get pushed around that job. So he then beats him with a mop handle after that. He says that he was, his excuse for this was that he was trying to, he needed his spinal fluid.

Oh, Jesus. And he was trying to extract it with signposts. Okay. That was the point of this. And then he stabbed him, but he didn't die. So he's like, fuck, I can't take his spinal fluid without killing himself. You know how that goes. How many times have we tried to...

Every time I need spinal fluid, I'm like, oh, Christ, now this guy's alive. I got to deal with this. I'll just get birds. So where's the cat? So he's charged with attempted murder, obviously. In 1991, he is found not guilty by reason of insanity for that that offense so uh he's not no extra time nothing not guilty reason he's insane whoa moving on next case same doctor he's crazy as shit crazy as shit he's just crazy did i mention

just just bat shit that's what i mean he beat an officer bat shit? That's what I mean. He beat an officer to death. That's what makes him crazy. He's pretty crazy. That's what makes him crazy. Thanks, dude. August of 2004, he is up for parole. Oh, no. Up for parole.

Yeah. Obviously, people aren't real excited about this, like residents of the town and people who've known him in the past. Maybe his family. They don't really want him out on the streets. He's not a popular guy. A bunch of residents said this one woman here, she was the assistant town clerk at the time, and a reporter asked a bunch of people about him. And she said, quote, the minute you said his name, it all came back to me. It was terrible.

There are so many stories going around about his oh i'm sure vampirism yeah uh another uh one guy who was a who was a police officer in 1980 said quote i was kind of flabbergasted by what happened in in country marshfield that's something you'd hear about happening in the city yeah not really you don't hear about that really happening many places this is the only story i've ever heard of this this isn't an urban rural situation i really don't think here i don't you know what i mean i think this is a fucking crazy crazy situation some shit you hear about down in florida but not here this is a cats and birds situation not a yeah not here more of a florida problem uh another woman here says uh quote uh the the i think it's a brother of the fire chief or some shit said quote it was a disaster to marshfield everybody was scared to death

yeah you caught the boogie man yeah no shit uh so uh god he was trying to he by the way he stabbed the prison guard because he thought the prison guard was trying to kill him he was having paranoia he thought he was trying to poison him and then he thought he was trying to kill him so he now it makes sense fashion to shank and said i'll get your spinal fluid before you kill me right that's how this shit works uh so uh he had a total of four admissions to the mental health unit during his incarceration was finally discharged from it in 1999 uh he's had a lot of uh you know history of mental illness in jail, also has a history of noncompliance with treatment, and also his escape from the Taunton Medical State Psychiatric Hospital in the 70s there. He does say that now, though, as he's up for parole in 2004, that he's fine.

He says the advancement of medicine now has made him much better, as well as his own investment in his treatment. He's stabilized, and he intends to continue to comply with treatment, whether it's mandated or not. He knows he needs help, so he's saying he's fine. He also says that he's engaging in programming to address his history of substance abuse and mental illness. And since he's been in prison, he's earned his bachelor's. So he is ready to be a productive member of society. He said that he's gained the insight necessary to manage his mental illness and is committed to treatment compliance. And the parole board says, nah, I don't think so.

Tell you what, we're going to let you go ahead and percolate and marinate for another few years. They can say come back next year they can say two years the longest they can say to come back in is five years and they say we'll see you in five asshole have a good one you need more time they left him for another five yeah five years that's it so uh 2009 is parole hearing fucking 2.0 here in five years parole boogaloo and uh he says uh uh that uh he was he was calm in this hearing uh he says that he'd like to be released from prison uh he says quote this is his this is amazing this also by the way comes from an old book yeah about prison

because i heard the quote in a prison book quote the name penitentiary comes from the word penitent and you learn how to be penitent in prison oh boy that's like an old that's like the old like quaker way they when they made that was to uh uh instead of beating the shit out of people you put them in a penitentiary and let them think about it that was the before that they would just flog them and then send them back where the fuck they came from or kill them right either one or just hang them uh he also says he's gained an education he talks more about his bachelors and he says he's converted to islam oh jesus good now yeah he's fine now much peace well now he's got now he's got inner peace he says he's got religion he's got a guiding

force his god isn't a vampire so he's happy about that uh he says that years of prison therapy and medication have helped him control the mental illness that convinced him he was a vampire that led him to torture animals, attack a prison officer and kill the elderly woman who cared for him. And the only person who gave a shit about him in the whole world. But also a bunch of members of his family testify at the parole hearing to say, we don't want this fucking guy out. He's an asshole. They say his vampire shit is contrived. His defense is only worse than their pain. Subjecting the family to endless media attention over the years. Sorry, family, to pile on, but this is crazy shit.

He's been denied parole before, obviously. Now, in 2009 here, the parole board expresses concerns regarding his continued written submissions to family members, particularly his mother. He directed his hostility and blame toward her for his issues, and his writings include both bizarre and threatening content. This isn't up to and including now when he's going to fucking parole. He's writing letters to his mother and threatening her? Threatening content, blaming her for his life.

He continued to write these letters after he'd reportedly been stable letters to his mother and threatening threatening content blaming her for his life uh he continued to write these letters after he'd reportedly been stable and symptom free for many years so this isn't like i used to do it right it's all fine like that he insists that he's now gained a different perspective regarding his relationship with his mother and realizes that his anger was misguided members of his family however testify that he continues to post threatening messages directed at his mother on a website that includes inmate submissions. The parole board found the writings directed toward his mother to be of significant concern, especially in the light of his insistence that he was a victim of horrific abuse at the hands of his mother and his, you know, penchant for taking revenge and killing people and sucking their blood. you know, penchant for taking revenge and killing people and sucking their blood. One of the relatives said, quote, about Carmen, the grandmother,

she deserved to die surrounded by her loved ones and according to God's plan, not James Riva's plan. James Riva deserves not even a glimmer of hope of living one day in a world he so viciously took away from his grandmother. old he so viciously took away from his grandmother uh her another one of uh her of carmen's granddaughters uh said that uh uh was talking about that he did it intentionally and uh quote what james did to my mother 29 years ago was planned premeditated and a planned and premeditated attack his release simply cannot be compatible with the welfare of society i okay you know right yeah uh he said uh as a matter of fact though he said that uh they said he showed a lack of remorse and they said that he's the parole board says that he seems uh fixated on a claim that his

abused him when he was young he keeps talking about that uh one of the parole the one of the board chairman said quote you've taken a person's life in a horrific, sadistic way, if I can be frank. Well, you're the chairman, so feel free. If you were to do it to somebody who was on your side, who cared and supported for you, it shows that you could do it to anybody, which is a really good point, I would say here. They also questioned why prison didn't why prison official officials still don't trust him to take his medication he has to take it supervised that sort of shit uh finally a police officer who uh who uh was one of the people who worked the whole case said quote uh it was his turn to talk and he said quote she he shot her once she threw a glass

of water at him he shot her again she didn't die instantly she burned alive that's the viciousness of this thing and in that room no remorse god forbid if he gets loose in society somebody would die and so they were like well yeah that's not good and then they hear about the metal rod that he plunged into the head of a corrections officer to tap his spinal fluid uh they asked him about that and he said oh god that he said no that was uh that was because i was uh uh before i took was taking my anti-psychotic drugs he says that's why now i'm fine but that was anti he said quote i can assure you just by my words i wouldn't be a threat to anyone no i don't care just by my your words. Hey, my word is gold here. Your word, like bullets. My word is gold.

Hey, you know what? Like bullets. If I say I'm a vampire, I'll suck blood. My word is bond, son. The fuck? You think you're a bust of rhymes? Yeah, that's all. So he said his aunt also testified, saying she would sicken to see an article in 2007

that he was attempting to sell artwork online that he made in prison. He's one of those. She said, quote, he saw nothing wrong with wanting to profit from his notoriety. How much does he think my mother's life is worth? There are people in our community who cannot be released. It was just what she said. So, yeah, the the the the chairman said that called him utterly reckless and irresponsible. He said, you thought it was realistic to kill your grandmother and suck her blood.

I'm just trying to figure this all out. Is that what you think? And he said, no, no, no. But now I'm better. He said, quote, I think I'm employable. As what? Lead bird chef. The guy who scrapes roadkill off?

What is the fuck job can this? I think I'm in for. Winning the bird population. Who's hiring him? Well, he's a real interesting guy to talk to. No. No. Yeah, they disagreed and denied his parole.

Good. Told him to get fucked and sent him back for another. Come back in five, chief. Fantastic. Another five. Let's see what you do there. That math doesn't add up james it's bad it's close it's close his old attorney by the way that worked his first trial spinale

there they talked to him he says he hasn't heard from james in many years and uh declines to comment on the parole hearing he says that's you know i don't know the details out of my hands didn't do it he says that though he does have a canvas that James painted him and sent him from prison shortly after he was sentenced, which he has hanging in his office. It is a it's the Boston skyline and all the buildings are in black with no lights or anything. So it's some creepy shit. Even he sends there his prison profile. I found here is James Riva inmate W38533 serving life sentence for murder. Born incarcerated denied parole twice.

Interests, painting, drawing, religious study, law, creative writing, exercise, fishing and boating, but I don't remember it well. It's hard to have an interest in shit that you can't do. Goals, to win some cases and publish some of my works to make it possible to start paying meaningful amounts of restitution to my victims. Of course, I would like to be released from prison to be on speaking terms with my ex-girlfriends and grown children. Well, let's not be creative. He's got children, by the way. We didn't have time to get into that shit.

Hopefully to be able to pay back what I owe. And then it's a Muslim phrase. I'm not sure how you say it. I don't want to fuck it up. Favorite foods, beans, vegetables, fruits, small amounts of halal meat, some rice, pasta, potato, phrase i'm not sure how you say it i don't want to fuck it up uh favorite foods beans vegetables fruits small amounts of halal meat some rice pasta potato fish all kinds oh yeah and honey too you know uh prison food you know whatever they feed us well he gets the he can get the muslim halal meal yeah yeah uh he says therapy in prison one 45 minute group for per week that's it that's it oh that's not enough

no i are free men that go way more that's crazy i pick 300 to 400 four leaf clovers per summer and dry them put them in letters to collect my thoughts they bring no good luck or bad but it seems to give some peace james riva he has his prisoner number OCCC, 1 Administration Building, Bridgewater, Massachusetts, 02324. So, that's him. 2014. Yeah. Up for parole.

Oh, boy. Again, the parole, and this time they're talking about the letters. I guess he's since stopped writing these letters, but they discussed that he was sending them right up until his last parole hearing and posting online and shit like that. He says he's been stable there. You know, he's been stable. He's fine. He's doing even better since the last time he's been continuing treatment.

He has a history of participation in completion that addresses his substance abuse and mental health issues. He participates in individual therapy, which we heard about, and is practicing a practicing member of Islam. He's also engaged in programs to address his violence and to increase his education. He's received his bachelor's degree in sociology. Riva believes that given his demonstrated history of rehabilitation and insight into the necessity of remaining stable and comply with treatment, he's now ready to transition to a mental health facility in the community. He specifically requests to transition to Worcester State Hospital, which will provide him with Department of Mental Health Services.

Worcester. Worcester, yeah. He said speaking in support of his parole were members of his extended family. One person who was married to his cousin for 15 years. Wow. Just a random person that just happened to be married to his cousin. This broad married my cousin when I was already in cousin for 15 years. Wow. Just a random person that just happened to be married to his cousin? This broad married my cousin when I was already in jail for 15 years. And then now the last 15 years, they've all been together.

And now she's going to talk about me. Okay. Because I'm great. She testified she'd never heard of James having any intention or desire to hurt his grandmother. She also said that since the murder, he's expressed only remorse for what he's done. grandmother she also said that since the murder he's expressed only remorse for what he's done uh there were uh also tons of uh people in his family that wrote letters and attended the hearing that were obviously in severe opposition to his uh to his parole uh they described his grandmother as a hard-working caretaker and the pillar of the family the matriarch the one that everybody

looked up to and she helped out everybody uh they all discussed the immense loss and the effects of the loss on the family and uh they also said that not for nothing but the family members were like we think he's a public concern for public safety we don't feel safe with him out nobody feels safe with him out uh they talk about the post threatening his mother uh he sat through the parole hearing it's a three-hour hearing people saying he's a piece of shit mostly uh they said at this point too he's got long gray hair and a beard with no mustache oh he's a prison muslim yeah look that's a weird look it's a weird look uh they called him stoic they said that he answered all the questions asked of him he was uh advocating on his own behalf for his relief, believing that he has himself under control. He's learned from his past mistakes.

He's good now in crime and sports terms. He's good now. He says that five members of his family read statements opposing his release. One person said, quote, Mr. Riva completed, committed a vicious, violent, cruel and heinous crime. That's all of them. Wow. It's a good description. And failed to learn from his past experiences as evidence when he stabbed a correctional officer. They say called him an extreme danger to the community. the assistant district attorney, the

ADA, the chief of police all wrote letters strongly advising not to let him out that they don't want him out, he's a threat to public safety and all that sort of thing so the parole, here's their decision the standard we apply, set out, blah blah blah

they give the statute number and everything which provides that quote parole board members shall only grant a parole permit if they are of the opinion that there is a reasonable proper probability that if such offender is released, the offender will live and remain at liberty without violating the law. And that release is not incompatible with the welfare of society. Applying that appropriately high standard here, it is the unanimous decision of the parole board that Riva is not a suitable candidate for parole and five more fucking years, asshole.

So go on back. In 2015, he sues a corrections officer, an individual corrections officer, and then a bunch of other individuals. But one is like the head of the cabal here against him, he says, for stealing his mail is what he says. He stopped taking his antipsychotic medications because he allegedly he said it's because of criticism from other inmates and statements from previous doctors that told him that it might be possible for him to go medication free at some point in the future. Not you, bud. He thinks this is the time. He's unable to sleep for many days at a time and is uh stopped taking his medication last time you did that yeah it's bad grandma paid the price of you not sleeping bad shit in that sleep deprived state he allegedly

uh hallucinated a telepathic communication from a nurse who instructed uh this is what he's trying to say about the correctional officer back in the day. He says that's why he's getting no mail now, because he stabbed a corrections officer 20 years ago. He said that this man is stealing his mail. Him and his relatives allegedly, quote, reported that a lot of Internet traffic was about him, and he began to receive some sporadic letters from lonely young women who were fascinated by his reported title as a vampire killer. Fucking Twilight reading lunatics. He alleges that he received letters and photos from women that he did not know. So he was getting he was popular.

But all the but that the photos would, quote, sometimes be stolen by the mail officer. And upon his filing of a written grievance, the mail officer just completely cut off all of his mail and stopped giving his mail. He alleges that the mail officer, I won't name the guy here, impersonated him, impersonated Riva in communicating with some of Riva's pen pals, specifically some of these women, created a fake identification to cash money orders sent to Riva. He's saying people were sending him money and stole Riva's letters and probate court documents.

He also alleges that the non-correction, that the officer, that other officers conspired to cover up this other officer's actions. And he says that Riva also alleges that the corrections officer harassed him by suggesting subjecting him to excessive mouth checks, despite Riva having never once hidden a pill or discovered under his tongue or cheek a pill. So he's saying he would always make sure to check his mouth for pills, you know, because they're afraid he won't take his medication. And he's saying that that was a discriminatory thing. And he steals my mail, jerks off to my pictures and takes my money orders and cashes them. Basically, they find no

anything, no merit in this claim whatsoever. August 2017, he sues the parole board. He says that they've unjustly denied him parole, even though he's feeling much better now. They're bullshit and we need to put

them on blast and they say fuck you they made a pretty conscious decision that you're a murderer and they don't want you on the streets his next parole yes this year oh yeah we're talking within uh six months this guy's going to be sitting in front of a fucking board uh so if you live in massachusetts if you live in marshfield mass Massachusetts if you live in the southeastern Massachusetts area keep an eye out in the media for this guy up for parole and I don't know, maybe you want him out on the streets or maybe you don't, but either way

I don't know, you could email somebody and say hey, we don't really want this fucking lunatic on the streets or you can say you do, whatever you're in the mood for or if you hear that he's out, watch your fucking six or keep your cats inside lock your doors, we'll put it that way uh if you just want to can't get enough of this lunatic you can go to super not.com where they have a james revis signed artwork piece an eight and a half by 11 inch picture of a dreary sailboat it's nothing special lined paper

eight and a half by 11 yeah that's just a piece of printer paper. That's what it is. It's like white printer paper. It's a picture of a dreary sailboat signed by him, 45 bucks. That's pretty expensive. Yeah, he's taken his artwork down from JamesRiva.com and apologizes for the moral misstep of the website, explaining, quote, for the moral misstep of the website, explaining, quote,

my aim was only to pay restitution to the people I've harmed and to save a little money to make a lawful reentry into society should I be fortunate enough to be granted parole. He's trying to sell his artwork. That is Marshfield, Massachusetts. That is James Riva and poor Carmen Lopez.

And as much, okay, we have a lot of crazy stories. That's top five. That's crazy, right? Yeah, that's bananas. That's definitely a top five.

Crazy. It's bonkers. I don't know. There isn't a story. It's a crazier one. I don't know. And I'm reading this going, no one's talked about this.

This hasn't been covered in like every this. I would think this is one of those ones that like eight different podcasts would have done. How did Dateline not get a hold of that? Or Dateline. That's juicy. It's goddamn crazy. It fell under the radar. I mean, there was a lot of like local media stuff about it.

In Boston papers, there was whenever he's up for parole, there's a blitz of coverage. But it's not like it wasn't like there was not movies about this insanity or any shit like that. It's crazy. But yeah, it's wild. If you like that story or you think it's crazy or whatever you feel about it, go on and give us five stars, damn it. Go on iTunes, the purple icon, whatever the hell you want to call it, Apple Podcasts or whatever, wherever you listen to podcasts, whatever platform, give us five stars. Tell us it doesn't matter. You're following instructions, following directions. It's really not for our ego uh go ahead and head over to shut up and give me murder.com

yeah for all of your crime and sports and small town murder needs you said yeah like you were like really i need to that's the spot you know it's there you don't need to but you out there you need to jimmy knows it all damn it or did before he was hitting the head with a hammer you know that goes. So head there. All your merchandising needs. Also, live shows. Wanted to talk a little for a second about the live shows. Huge slate of live shows.

Tons of stuff. We're going to be in about four cities a month is the way we're going to be doing it. Sometimes five. Sometimes five. We're going to be, I will tell you, Tampa and Orlando are coming up over the summer. That's going to be our first ones kind of this tour. Right out the gates. Right out the gates.

Don't ask the dates and know they're not on sale right now. We'll tell you when they're on sale. Don't tweet at us and go, are they on sale yet? If you don't see it on our thing, then they're not on sale. That's why you go to shutupandgivememurder.com, look at the calendar, or follow us on social media, at Murdersmall on Twitter, at at murder small on twitter uh at small town pod on facebook at small town murder on instagram we put those out as soon as they go on sale and we're giving a link we put them up on social media and we announce them so uh we do that if it's a city

that sells out fast you want to get in and and get it fast some of these you know minneapolis and some of these places like that that tend to uh they go quick tickets Tickets tend to move. St. Louis we've never been to. We've never been to St. Louis. We've never been to Kansas City. We've never been to Pittsburgh. Des Moines. We've never been to Des Moines. We've never been to Salt Lake City.

There's a lot of places that we're going. By the way, these are all places we're going that we've never been before. So we're super excited. And a lot of places we have been before. And Milwaukee. Don't forget about Milwaukee. Another place we've never been before. And places we have been before.

We're going to be everywhere. So check that out. Please follow us on all those things. Get your merch on there. Wear it to a live show. It's a great place to wear it. All sorts of stuff you can get for merchandise and everything like that. You want to be an even bigger hero. We already told you about social media.

You can do that so easily. And these are the people that keep the lights on and the recording uh recording go the adobe audition recording uh this is uh these are our heroes our producers uh you can be one of these people they really help us out like we've said we've said this before too we'll have people that will apologize to us because they're like i made a patreon you know i do i pledged on patreon It's only a dollar a month. I'm really sorry, but I got... We're like, are you joking? Don't apologize for that. That's amazing. You give us a dollar a month. That's crazy.

Anybody who says... What, do you eat birds? Yeah, what do you eat? You got birds in your pocket? Get out of here. So, that's awesome. If everybody listening to the show gave a dollar, it would be, you know, Christ Almighty, this would be amazing. But you guys are awesome, and we appreciate everything you do is amazing if it's a nickel we're happy honestly the shit out of it thank you is what we want to say we're not begging for more we're just saying

thank you and we appreciate everything and now we want to thank the people who have been our heroes this week and our producers jimmy why don't you hit me with that list like a bird in your pocket right to the forehead this week's executive producers are candace kennedy mary b and lisa coltrane who's having her 40th birthday happy happy birthday lisa thank you for her birthday she would like everyone to go to be the match.com and see if you can't uh i don't know it's a fucking the place where for uh organ donation and oh yeah yeah she's a big believer in that cool happy birthday lisa she's the one that's in she gave us that picture right there. Oh, awesome.

Yeah, in Baltimore. It was really cool. Thank you so much. Yeah. So thank you very much. Producers this week are Brendan Ables, Krista Walker, Amy Grace Shit. Amy Grace Shit? That's a weird name.

Amy Grace Eccles. Oh, that's a better name. Ashley Veo, Sarah Hornberger, Gage Foster and Leah Bauer, James Lombardo, Janice Hill, Nicole Bortz, Thomas Smith, Bree Ryan up there in Montana. I agree. Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. montana throw idaho in your mess the fucking mess uh reba warburger no warbird uh jesse hartman uh happy birthday emily or no it's emmy dumont uh she's um she's been around a while yeah absolutely anyhow happy birthday happy birthday jennifer uh gage simmons jennifer with no last name uh gage simmons annabelle's house i'm not sure what that is it's spelled like the german house so cool whatever that means all means. All right. I don't know. Kayla again.

Boat. Right. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like Ted. Yeah.

Reagan. Reagan. Shalkley. She's the one that came to the show. She has a dog named Westman. Oh, cool. Cool. Ashley Dawn.

Yes. Ryan Lucier. Lonnie Hall. She came to the show. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Lonnie's awesome. She came to two shows.

Right. She's really cool. Hi, Lonnie. Thank you. Hunter. Hunter. Hunter. Crut singer. I. She's really cool. Hi, Lonnie. Thank you. Hunter Crutsinger. I don't know if I wrote that right. I think it's Crutsinger.

I think that's right. Kimberly J. Damian Barney. Not so steely, Dan. Okay. Interesting. I like it. Tegan Bailey.

Patrick Martin. John Sheets. Giacomo Umberto. Giacomo. Giacomo? Yeah. No. Giacomo. Giacomo. Giacomo. It's not Giacomo. It's Giacomo, Giacomo, Umberto, Giacomo. Yeah. No. Giacomo. Giacomo.

It's not Giacomo. It's Giacomo. That's certainly Giacomo. G-I-A is Giacomo. That's James in Italian. Is it really? Yes. Is that what that is?

That's how I know it's Giacomo. James Umberto Bertoldo. There you go. Bertoldo. That's the guy. You guinea bastard. Trey Volkanar, who also wanted us to thank his wife Lauren Volkanar who finally listened to us and gave us a five star review

thank you the San Antonio Volkanars thank you Mahmoud Rahman yes Donna Hatfield Donna Olmsted Craig Larson

Mandy Jo Abel Catherine Burgess, Nicholas Warner, Caitlin Boone, Noah Wooten, Debbie Way, Sean Stewart, Teresa Brandel, Vanessa Ramirez. So she spelled that so that I don't say it too white with Vanessa. It's Vanessa. Nice. With a T. Melissa Figueroa, who also was Tatiana Cuevas, graduated. She lives in Chicago, and she lived in a shit neighborhood in Chicago, and her parents hate

each other, and she still figured out how to graduate. So good job, Tatiana. Crystal or Cristali or Cristal. I don't know. It's Crystal with an E. Randy Thompson, Rachel Stora Becca B Trevor Gordon Kyle Blythe David Renazzi John Masterson

John No John Master John That's what it is And Steph Master John Cool That's a fascinating last name Yeah it is

It's pretty You could Whatever He was made fun of I'm sure of it Katie with no last name Mandy Miller And she heard of us On a first date, and the date

went shitty, and she still kept listening. You know what? Good. That means she got something out of it. We win. Suck it. Jack and Noth. Yeah.

That's somebody's name, apparently. No, it's not. Justin Miller, Brandon Mansmith, Lauren Moxley, Gary Howard again, Susan Gable, Brandon Massey, Juan Jimenez, Rebecca Sills, Dana Bartram, Grant Reynolds, Logan Murray, Allison Morris, Jack Fisher, Lauren Demerath, and Kevin Juren. Thank you guys for everything you do for us. We really, bottom of our hearts, appreciate it. Thank you. The most awesome people in the world. They really are.

Because it's not required. That's the thing. We'll keep putting this show Yeah. It's because it's not required. That's the thing. Like, we'll keep putting this show out. It's obviously free and shit like that. And these people just say, you know what? I get five, six hours a week, at least from these guys. They, you know, maybe I'll throw them a couple bucks just because I think that's worth it. I think 20 to 25 hours a month of entertainment is worth, you know, a dollar or $3 or something like that. So thank you guys for that.

We can't tell you how much we appreciate you guys for that. What if people wanted to appreciate you, Jimmy? They really wanted to take you in and appreciate the Jimmy-ness of your whole situation. How could they find you? You can appreciate me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks, on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. Facebook's full, sorry. I've got 5,000 friends on there, and I've got like 20 backed up. So as people have had enough of my shit, new people can get some more of my shit.

Where can they get your shit? You can get my shit at Jimmy P is funny, or just copy and paste my last name from the show description and look it for me like that, because don't try to spell it. You're not going to spell it. What do you eat, birds? Why? Yeah. That's't try to spell it. You're not going to spell it. Why? Yeah. You just,

that's, that's bird eating behavior. We're not going to have it there. So, uh, yeah, with that said, guys, thank you so much for hanging in there and for everything you do for us.

And, we can't wait to see you when all these damn live shows, it's going to be fun. And, uh, until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.