Small Town Murder - #119 - It's About The Opportunities in Whitley City, Kentucky

Episode Date: May 16, 2019

This week, in Whitley City, Kentucky, when a gruesome discovery is made in the back of a rural trailer, police can't quite close the net around a suspect, until a new, star witness comes forward. But are they telling the truth? It's family vs family as accusations fly, and death penalties are pushed for. This is a crazy story from the first minute!Along the way, we find out that sometimes "opportunities" aren't enough, that misunderstandings can lead to multiple deaths, and that finding fingernail clippings can cause a decade worth of court proceedings!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Whitley City, Kentucky, a gruesome discovery in a back bedroom of a rural trailer leads police on a fruitless hunt until a very unlikely witness steps forward.

Are they telling the truth? Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us this week on another crazy episode of Small Town Murder. Coming last week from Lake Havasu, Arizona there.

That was a lot of fun. That was a crazy episode. Do you want to know something, James? What? I went out with my dad on his boat this weekend. Yeah. And while we're sitting out on the lake, he's telling me about how the London Bridge got to Lake Havasu. I go, hold on.

Pump the brakes. I got this. Let me tell you a story, sir. I'll tell you something. Now we're heading back east this week. Okay. Heading out to, wow, this is one of our, one of the most rural,

this is what small town murder's all about. When you think of like a small town murder and you think like, oh, some backwoods little, this is what we're talking about here. It's all about it. Quickly, some house cleaning because we have some stuff to talk about with live shows, and then we will get right into the show because it's a doozy.

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Listen to crime and sports. Once again, reiterate, you do not have to like sports. We say this all the time. People go, I'm not really into sports. Good. You should like crime and sports even more than because we're mocking. Trust me. I don't know about you, James, but I get a lot of love on Twitter about crime and sports.

And it's not when you do that and aim it at me. Tag James's fat ass in it, too, don't know i've been trying to gain weight for the last 20 years i'm skinny as fuck all of a sudden i'm fat now sorry no i don't care i'm just tag james's ass in it too and let him know because he's the one that in uh researches it and and we both adore the show so let him yeah we love that shit yeah they do they're all good it's been insane this week yeah do that definitely and uh get your merchandise we have tons of new stuff pocket robin t-shirts get your pocket robin t-shirts and uh most of all though tickets to live shows because this is a big day here uh pre-sale started if you're listening the day this comes out on thursday may the 16th uh 16th 17th friday if you're listening to that just let me do this part

i'll do house cleaning if you've been drinking thank you so if uh no no i got this if you're if you're uh listening today the tickets are on sale pre-sale today so uh do that shut up and give me murder.com the uh pre-sale code is grim karen if you are uh if you're gonna buy tickets tomorrow they go on sale for the public everywhere no code or anything on friday may 17th uh all the shows will be on sale except i think baby charlotte because that's during a festival so they have a different ticketing system but everything else will be available uh get those tickets Some of the markets will go quick. So even if it's like, oh, that show's not until November,

probably get your tickets now. Places like Chicago, we sell really well in Chicago. So I know it's not until December, but get your tickets. We've never been to Milwaukee. Get those tickets now because they'll probably go fast. Minneapolis, they sold in a day last time. So grab your tickets. Pittsburgh's going to be fast.

Pittsburgh, there's a bunch of them. So if you want to go, grab the tickets, and we're going to give you a hell of a show. We promised that. We gave you the whole slate last time. It's at shutupandgivememurder.com. I'm not going to repeat them again. Any questions about anything about the shows,

basically, unless it's about Jimmy and I personally, unless you're going to ask, hey, what colors are you guys wearing on stage, or the actual, are you going to do the same show here and there or something like that? Contact the venue. We don't know. We don't know about ages, this, that.

We know shit. We're trying to make them all ages so people can get in because, you know, college kids want to get in a lot. We have 16-year-olds that want to get in and adults and whatever. Also, there will be chairs. People have asked some of this venue a lot of times so it doesn't have chairs. All these are seated shows.

No one's going to have to stand for two hours and listen to a comedy show. So that said, get your tickets now. We're going to have a blast. And with that aside, quick disclaimer, this is a comedy podcast. We're comedians. We do our best here to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families, but jokes happen.

That's what happens. So we try to make jokes about small towns, bumbling police force that lets a murderer go free, or a murderer. We talk about them because what other recourse do we have? But like we said, we try not to make fun of the victims or the victims' families because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. That's true. So if that sounds excellent to you, then you're going to have a blast and we're going to have fun here.

But if you think true crime and comedy should never go together, and even if it's not about something horrible, the joke, that jokes should just never be around the story of murder, then you should probably not listen to the show. It's just not for you. It is. And we're not for everybody. Uh-uh. That's the way it is. But for the rest of you that want to have a good time, let's do this. Shout it out the window. Stand atop your cubicle and proclaim, shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. Okay. What do you say? We're going all the way to Kentucky. Oh, again. Oh, boy. Here we go.

Old Kentucky. We haven't been to Kentucky in a while. No? No. Boy, here we go. Old Kentucky. We haven't been to Kentucky in a while. No?

No. We had in Wisconsin, there was a heritage from Kentucky there where they had the Kentucky Festival. I believe that was Wisconsin. Was the last one Maynardville? Was that even? No, we'll talk about it. This is Whitley City, Kentucky. This is at the very bottom of the state, very south where it's kind of evened out and flat

there, that area is that tennessee border uh yeah that's there uh the town this is it's like everything's settled to the bottom and this town is the the sediment of kentucky like you'd have to get a decanter to get rid of it it's disgusting it really is in this town i'm sorry but it fits when you read about it you're just like jesus christ this place is depressing man it really is it's uh about three hours to cincinnati because it's in the south part of cincinnati is in the northwest there about uh three hours to nashville in the other direction kind of southwest and uh two hours and 50 minutes to edgewood kentucky which was episode 63 that

which was our last Kentucky episode. Yeah, man. It's been a long time since we've been to Kentucky. Over a year. So that was the episode we did live in Boston, I believe. Yes. Yeah, we had a good time with that. This is in McCreary County, Kentucky.

Zip code 42653. Area code 606. That is 2.3 square miles uh here the motto of this of the county the town doesn't have a motto and we'll talk about it the town town doesn't really represent itself well it doesn't really advertise itself it's just kind of there what's it called the town yeah it is called whitley city whitley whitley city kentucky whitley city and there's nothing city about this goddamn place this should be called whitley field okay or whitley you know whitley mobile home park would be a good play possible name for it but the county motto is scenic mccreary county it's our nature oh exclamation point uh or like puns that's a bad one they're they're trying because

that's literally all they have is trees they're like look we got trees what do we do here and they're like just fucking advertise trees okay just tell them we got trees i don't know just tell them it's scenic and nature and they get the hint they'll walk around uh but that also leads into their secondary motto which is way more important if you're exploring nature which is quote if you hear a banjo, cover your butthole. That's the state motto, and especially that county. They really stick hard to that.

Just cover your butthole because it's dangerous. It's pretty much Kentucky's whole state motto. Yeah, down here, this is this is like the area where you'd go, yeah, I'm not getting out of the car in those woods. I'm not. Nope. We blow a tire, we'll just keep driving until we get to the next place of civilization because no let the sparks fly we're 100 gonna be fucking diddled around here by something the rim down yeah fuck

it i don't care by like a like a hillbilly with his eyes too close together and his arms down to his knees yeah or like a bear's gonna rape us something bad's gonna happen here i don't want any part of it. It's either too close or too far. One of the two. Don't like it. They're either on their temples or on their nose. Either way, not good.

Not good. Now, it's located southeastern Kentucky. It's on the southern edge of the Daniel Boone National Forest there, and the northern end of the Big South Fork National River and Recreation area known as the NRA which sounds like the NRA with more rifles. Sounds like

the extra. The National Rifle Rifle Association. Yeah, the National fucking The National so many Rifle Rifle Association. So many. Rifle Rifle. the nra guys are pussies national rifle associate one rifle rifle rifle bitch take that i don't know about it that's great this area is all about the outdoor shit that's all they can say about it is there's a lot of it's scenic and there's just outdoor recreational.

They always say it like this, too. I feel like they've worked this phrase out. Outdoor recreational opportunities, which means there's nothing to do, but there is grass for you to make something up. I feel like that's what that is. That's because there's opportunity. Whenever someone says there's opportunity, that means if you make something and craft it from shit and just make it out of whole cloth nothingness, then yeah, that's your opportunity that you just made. That's what they just said.

The ORO. They got an acronym for it. You know there's eight-year-olds that know that. We have outdoors. Therefore, there's opportunity for recreation. Enjoy. We didn't set anything up to facilitate that at all. You see any doors around here?

No. No. You don't. Knock yourselves out. See all those trees? Do whatever you want to them. I don't give a fuck. Hide in them and wait for people.

Play your banjo and then rape them. I don't know. Do what you got to do. So, yeah, there's a lot of all sorts. McCreary County has the Natural Arch. These are all like historic and nature shit. The historic Stearns Stearns Trail Town. I don't know what that is.

The Barthel Coal Mining Camp. That's what I want to go look at. Want to go look at an old coal mining camp? That sounds good. Hey, look, kids. That's not even named after anybody. That's just the sound somebody made when they came out of the coal mine. And that's Barthel.

There's some kids sitting there dicking around in his iPad at a coal mining camp. Like, come on. Pay attention. Jesus. Look around. These guys went down in a hole, for Christ's sake. There's so many opportunities around you right now. Jesus Christ.

Yeah, all sorts of recreation shit. Opportunities just abound to have recreation, however you want it. Just abound to have recreation however you want it. It was first, people started coming here in about 1772. This area kind of became a community, I guess you could say, in about 1772, which originally this was in Virginia. This was part of Virginia. Really? Yeah, this was part of Finia really uh yeah this was part of uh finn castle virginia and then in 1776

they divided it up and they uh they named this kentucky county virginia and then uh in 1780 the virginia legislature set aside all the land in kentucky in kentucky county for soldiers who had served in the revolutionary war right so that's how this started as we've had a few of these towns start that was the one and i want to say, where the hell was it? New Hampshire or Vermont? Vermont, I think it was, where it was like it started, it was all laid out, the whole town was plotted out and given to just for soldiers after the war. Because they promised these people land.

Yeah. Said if you fight, we'll give you land, and so they had to do it. In 1780, it was divided up again, and they kept dividing and dividing and making different shit. And this is now this county, and this is that county. And then in 1818, Whitley County was finally created from a portion of Knox County, which is not where we are, by the way. It's just nearby. Even though this is Whitley City, it's in a different county because it's Kentucky. Yeah.

They have so many fucking counties there's a lot of counties in these places yeah back east there's just a shitload of counties it's really amazing like in arizona all the counties are like big kind of square or kind of like well we've got 13 in this state yeah at west they just kind of laid it out yeah pretty easy but back there it was based on you know negotiation you see weird borders, that's either a river or negotiation. You know what I mean? River or argument. Or argument of, yeah, I want 10 more feet.

I'll give you five more feet. Okay. Then you get a wiggly fucking border. Seven with seven and a half. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Wiggly border, assholes. So there was a lot of nature is what they saw first.

I guess the Teleco Trail was around here, which is an Indian route that had been used for thousands of years. It was like this trail that people had used for thousands of years. And there was other trails that would intersect through that sort of thing. And other villages like Pine Knot, which is, we'll talk about that a little bit later. A bunch of these places they they uh the economy back then was based basically on people were farming what they ate they weren't making much money uh they had timber products they made railroad ties and shit for barrels and and things like that and there was small coal mines like it was it wasn't even being exploited

you know if you were just gonna exploit it for resources and money that even wasn't even being exploited. If you were just going to exploit it for resources and money, that wasn't even done properly. It was just kind of nobody gave a shit, basically. They developed a little bit, and people started coming more to the area to see the touristy type shit, the outdoor stuff. Because people like nature. Even back then, there wasn't a lot of technology and shit. They still liked nature, even though their house was basically basically nature your house was nature in the 1800s what that was a damn good point it really was it was a wall and a door but otherwise it was just nature five years ago this was growing and now it's not well also there was no difference to outside or inside you had the

same shit right basically if you put a chair outside that's the same thing as your house you have no there's no like there's a tv and a heater and a refrigerator or anything in a toilet it's just a fucking wall around so bears didn't get in that's all it was so uh yeah they the uh cincinnati southern railroad came through in 1880 and obviously that was the oh boy once that happens once that happens boy uh that's that's when that's when it happens here uh this then they would uh have access to places to sell the timber and the coal so then they would start making you know more timber and coal or cutting down more timber and pulling out more coal you get a marketplace yeah you don't make either of those things but yeah uh they had a guy named justice j-u-s-t-u-s justice s sterns

justice s sterns enterprises was there and uh uh he had companies that did all sorts of shit and was kind of this i picture him like the real rich guy of the area all the coal miners live like on his lawn yeah in little tents and shit i feel like and he's not even that rich yeah that's the thing yeah he's just got you know a house that's not on wheels and that can close on that i don't have holes in the foundation and pants yeah that's pretty much the foundation is that's big that's huge he's got his is it's all concrete you can't even move your house i don't know if that's a good he can't even move it. It's stuck right where they built it. Dumb bastard. That ain't right.

I'll tell you something. So, yeah, this place here is during the Great Depression, he sold off quantities of land around here to the U.S. government that would become the Cumberland National Forest. This guy, the Stearns. Justice. Justice. Yeah, to the U.S. government that would become the Cumberland National Forest. This guy, the Stearns. Justice. Justice. Yeah, to avoid losing his ass. Who will buy this? Who will buy a bunch of fucking nowhere

land in Kentucky? The government is the only person who will buy it. So they bought it here. This county is poor. It's excessively poor. We'll talk about it more in the stats, but the U.Ss department of health and human services says mccreary county is 91.32 percent dependent on the federal government for ssi ssdi social security medicare medicaid and other government assistant programs far too

much and food stamps 91.32 percent of people get some sort of federal assistance here which is i don't even mind blowing i've never heard that's i i don't know i'm speechless and i just keep shrugging my shoulders i'm like how why what's going on out run it'd be cheaper it'd be cheaper just to give these people money to go somewhere else well i, I mean, because it's clearly not. I don't know. There's just nothing. There's no opportunities except for recreation. And that's the fucking problem.

I feel like these people are like, we have nothing. Like, help us leave here. That would be the thing. Don't just help us stay here. Help us leave here. Fuck, man. But if you give them, like, let's say five grand is the number that gets each person out of there you give somebody five grand yeah that's in that position yeah there's no way they're using that well they also they when they owe money they have bills because people shit you live paycheck to

paycheck yeah bills man there's zero chance that those people are using that credit that you have you have everything i mean everyone's got that shit keep them there that's tough man yeah no they need to come in and people someone needs to come in and physically yeah come on everybody on the truck you know put grandma on top and we'll fucking beverly hillbilly style it right to wherever the hell you guys want to go manually evict that's it shit i i voluntary do you want to leave yes would you like how this place is terrible so uh the development because it's not like they're in a bad part of a city or they're in like a a bad part of a shitty town they're in a bad part of a shitty town. They're on the trailer side of the town, wrong side of the tracks.

There's no good side of the track. The whole town's on the bad side. This is just in the whole area. There's not even like you can go a town over and have opportunity. That one sucks, too? It's all shit around here. Oh, fuck. Yeah, it's tough here.

Industrial development started in the 1970s. They had a sewing industry here. Hell yeah. But this all went overseas, obviously, by now. So there's nobody sewing in fucking Kentucky anymore. So timber was a bit of a factor in the economy still here. They had logging and hardwood and shit like that. But they've been trying to, because all county's been trying to put

together these like industrial parks to draw business to draw these big businesses and they built three of them and nobody showed up oh no they're just like we know what we don't want to be there they just got available signs everywhere opportunities a lot of opportunity in this town i'll put it that way here. A lot of opportunity. Agriculture never a big deal here. In 2002, only 5% of this county was farmland. So for a rural place, there is really no agriculture.

But there is livestock, hay, and forage. Forage. That sounds terrible. That sounds like how they eat. Yeah, that's their forage. They make the livestock forage for hay i feel like if you want to make a we take the livestock with us to forage and then we compete for who gets to eat yeah and then it's you know if we can't find anything we just eat the

livestock we keep it there uh yeah so uh there there's never there just isn't a lot going on here when it comes to uh uh mcc. Out of Kentucky, there's 120 counties. It's ranked 112th in agricultural production. So not a lot going on there. Tourism industry, a little bit. They look at historic coal mining and shit like that. I mean, it's really not that. There's not a lot of reason to go here.

I've got to be honest with you here. I found a resident review of it, and it's three stars. And it's just that's pretty great. It's it's a kind of a it's just kind of a boring review, but it gets the job done here. Quote, The great thing about Whitley City is it's small and has that great hometown fell to it. By the way, I kept the spelling fell. F-E-L-L. Oh, it's two L way. Oh, boy. I kept the spelling. Fell. F-E-L-L.

Oh, it's two L's. Two L's, yeah, instead of feel. It's fell to it. But with that being said, it's a place with very little attraction to get people or investment into our city. Whitley City has seen its heyday back in the 70s and 80s with the coal industry, but as the coal industry has went belly up,

so has our city. And it wasn't even that great then. No. It really wasn't even that great then. No. It really wasn't here. Population here, this is for the whole county. The whole county has 17,000 people in it right now. So not a lot. Our town, Whitley City, population 1,231 right now, which is up 8% since 1990.

I assume that's just births and people hanging on it's gotta be for dear life yeah and uh life expectancy going a little deeper yeah that's it median age here is 41.5 which is about four years older than the normal male to female population at a whack like crazy uh 58 percent male that's never that's a lot I assume there's coal mining there. So that's going to be a reason. But 58% male is. That makes 42. Yeah, we've never seen anything like that before. That is crazy. The ages are whacked out, too.

They have 0% 75 to 84 year olds. None. Zero. But the over 85 is more than double the average. What? So I don't understand no there's no for some reason nobody was born in this town from this year to that year but then more people i don't understand it they have super elderly but not a lot of i don't know if they're i don't know what

that is i i don't understand how that's possible honestly i don't how is that possible just they kill everybody under them we're taking all the social security damn it i don't is that generation dead from coal mining and then the others lasted i don't know were they all in fucking korea or something i have no idea what happened here uh also double the 45 to 54 year olds okay and double the five to nine year olds okay but then everything else is super low it's real i suppose we chalk it up to 1200 people everyone here is 90 50 or seven there is nobody in between it's like a parent and your kid and then they're it's the weirdest fucking place i've ever seen that is amazing yeah if it wasn't so blocked like that i'd be like oh it's just an

anomaly of small it's very specific 1200 is that's you're getting to a decent you know enough to tell cross-section here uh married population low 36 which is 58 male so i mean it's tough there uh divorce rate high over it's about 16 widow rate is three times the normal uh average here for widows which you have 85 plus year olds who apparently married people about 10 years younger than them who are all dead but widows are just women right or no it's just a married person with a dead spouse okay uh yeah so uh like single with children is low single Single with no children, 35% of the population. It's normally 10%. That's the highest I've ever seen. Race of this town, 91% white.

Pretty white. 91.31% white. 3.9% black. 3.49% Asian, which is unexpected. And what's the best way to put it? I don't know. And 1.30% Hispanic. So nobody has found him yet there.

Now, religion, 21.9% religious. So it's as low as we've had. Which is strange for Kentucky. This town is bizarre as fuck. It's a weird town. It's the town from Nothing But Trouble, I feel like. It's super strange. Out of those people, 16.7 percent of

the people are baptist obviously baptists are catholics of the south obviously here a couple of methodists and some pentecostals uh here 0.0 percent jew uh jewish 0.0 percent muslim they're just like i don't think so i'll i'll watch the pbs special on this town when it comes out thank you when ken burns gets there I'll find out about it. Give me some front line about this shit. Yeah. As far as politics go, in the last election, 87% Republican in this town, 11% Democrat, the rest independent.

McCreary County has, that's in the county, not the town. McCreary County has only once voted for a non- republican for president who was only once and that was the year no no that was the year of uh of the when the republican party kind of uh it was the year when uh theodore roosevelt and teddy roosevelt ran as a progressive and he was a republican before that right but then he sat out the one for him and ran again as a progressive and they voted for him because he's insane yeah teddy roosevelt's a fucking lunatic and they were like he's the only one crazy enough for us was dukakis uh uh he was

a democrat from massachusetts yeah yeah yeah no but he's they definitely didn't vote for him right uh but yeah that's the only time and that was in i want to say like 1908 or some shit like that like 1910 it's been a hundred years since this county has gone anything but uh but that uh yeah so uh here and also too they voted for him so heavily that the president william howard taft uh was a only at 18.1 of the vote unbelievable so it was that heavy in there unemployment rate here is about six percent which is high for now now it's under four percent in the rest of the country here it's six percent median household income rest of the country fifty seven thousand six hundred dollars oh i'm braced here seventeen thousand six hundred eighty three dollars $6,683. What do you do? Per capita, $6,830.

How do you do that? Per person. 65% of the people make under $15,000 a year. 81% of the people make under $20,000 a year. 81% make under $20,000 a year. Now that 91% being on the government team makes sense. That's what I mean. You have to

everybody be dead everybody be living in the woods foraging for hay and livestock i can't imagine sticking around uh it's crazy construction is 57.3 of the jobs here it's constructed and they're not building anything no so that's just people who write down construction because that's what they know how to do and that's what they've done here and there that's it uh 31 percent retail trade nothing else the rest is like uh food services restaurants there's no fucking jobs here it's ridiculous uh cost of living should be nothing should be two uh 100 is regular average par uh here it's 80 it's 85 here which you know if you're rural things certain things are more expensive like transportation and stuff like that but housing is not housing is 31 okay and uh the median home cost here is 49

thousand two hundred dollars very very cheap uh most of the houses about 70 of the houses are under 60 000 here so that it would have to be if everyone makes under 20 000 and if we've convinced you i'm riveted to go to whitley city and be the, you're going to take it all, you're going to make it better. Yeah. We have for you the Whitley City, Kentucky Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom apartment here is about, or two-bedroom rental is about $618. It's a two-bedroom trailer. Let 618 dollars you two-bedroom trailer let's

be realistic here i found now these are all houses that are on foundations these are real houses and those aren't easy to find here i found a three-bedroom one bath 1000 square foot uh place for 62 900 uh it's really rough it's got to need some work i found a three bedroom one bath 1066 foot square square foot place for 63 000 extra 100 bucks you get 66 more square feet deal that's good there and then if you want to stretch out you've you're the justice stearns and you're the baron of the coal mine i found a four bedroom two and a half bath 1495 square495 square foot mansion for $139,900. Wow. Yes.

That's the tip of the iceberg there. That's it, babe. That's the one. That's the king of the hill. That's the king house right there. 1,500 square feet. Top of the hill. You're sitting down overlooking everybody going, look at that trash.

That's the guy with the pants. Look at the trash down there. Hold on. Let me put my rope belt on because I do have pants. I don't have a belt but i have pants things to do i found the blazing bluegrass festival i'm in in big south fork uh here uh it is this wow it's at the sandhill rv camp i'm out in whitley city kentucky so uh yeah it says here if you missed the blazing bluegrass festival 2018 you missed the best festival ever you asshole doesn't say that i wish it did cocksucker uh but they're fucking pussy

pussy uh by the way this is this is what they're all about here the bluegrass their radio station here and i shit you not is w-h-a-y w-h-a-y that's how much they're into country here it is w-h-a-y no shit i found a little bit of their lineup for the blazing bluegrass hey because that w is silent yeah it's okay hey now so i found a uh a sample of their schedule yeah bands here uh i don't never heard of any of these people uh double portion cf bailey the grand view pickers i hope they mean an instrument and not their noses or their dean osborne and friends uh-huh it's not just dean i wasn't gonna go and it's always bringing friends dean's bringing friends get the kids in the car put grandma on the roof dean's bringing fucking friends the bluegrass festival i know he's

terrible but maybe his buddy's good i bet they are uh the baker family oh i i don't know the johnsons were pretty good so why not the bakers open rail there's a bunch of hobos probably deeper shade of blue what okay uh the dave atkins band uh the primitive quartet uh we got there. So they're going to all be there. And there's a few other ones here. Steve Gully and the New Pinnacle. This is bad. Is it Larry Cordell and the Lonesome Standard Time Band? Why do they get such a weird name?

But he gets to throw Larry Cordell. Cordell. You heard me? See? And then he's fucking judged. Oh, they're the Lonesome Standard Time. But you know how it works. Crime in this town what the shit crime and this is shocking the crime rate is what shocked me the most so far uh you would think the crime would be off the charts bonkers here uh crime rate

property crime is about 25 percent low under the national average and violent crime murder rape robbery and assault is about half the national average. Incredible. So I don't understand if they just don't have the gumption to steal. They're exhausted from trying to make money. That's what I mean. It's just labor is tired. I don't know what the fuck is going on here, but these are apparently honest and very poor people.

They're too busy running applications around town. That's true. Plus, so many of them are between the ages of 5 and 9 or 85 and 100 that is really they don't have a lot of wherewithal to commit crime. It's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show

is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. We'll be right back. you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory,

walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family.

But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available

exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+, in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Really? So it's difficult for them. Either way. They all have a bedtime before crime starts.

That's the thing. And then the walker gets in the way of crime otherwise. They're all in bed before 8 p.m. Yeah, and none of them have a reliable rascal scooter they can escape on. It's some some government used one that they got jesus christ either way i think we should talk about a murder that happened here uh we should almost uh call it an escape i should say rather than a murder if they got out of this fucking town i apologize that's terrible thing to say but it's also kind of true. It's a little, it's sort of true.

But this murder here. I put that together way too late. I saw you kind of looking at me like, I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, that's super mean. I see where you're going. That was definitely not a shot at the people who will die. That was a shot at the town. And the people who will live.

The living. That's a shot at the living residents of this town and i would say you know i apologize if you live in this town but you probably don't have electricity to charge your phone to fucking listen to this so i'm not real worried about you listening not a good chance you have in the internet exactly it's one of those back in the day it's yeah people would say ah on the radio who cares you say about deaf people they can't hear you anyway i feel like that's what we're doing here we're on the fucking internet they're like the what now the way now what pray tell what time's that so come on the way what kind of what time's the internet come on the w way so uh let's talk about this murder to do this we have to go back in time not too far though we're

not going to go because it feels like with this episode it's far enough so i mean if you go back to like 82 it might as well be the depression i picture like hobos coming in with bindles and guys on the back of like fruit carts jumping off like thanks waving this is far enough that happened this hope there's work in this town that. That's what's going on here. We're going to go back to 1997. March 9th, 1997, as a matter of fact, the day Biggie died. This is not the murder of Biggie Smalls, which I could get into in great detail. Believe me. See, I hit my microphone.

You got so excited, you punched the mic. Great detail. I could get into the murder of Biggie Smalls. Believe me. I've read and seen way too much on this and you were in the age of prime right then oh god i was pissed something i was fucking mad yeah i was like but now like all the shit that's come out later and all the facts and i have my theories all right i have my theories on biggie it's it's you know it's definitely it's it's all

intertwined with the tupac thing which is the weirdest part you wouldn't think it would be you think oh that's all sensationalistic no it Tupac thing, which is the weirdest part. You wouldn't think it would be. You'd think, oh, that's all sensationalistic. It actually is, just based on other factors, though, that are coincidental. It's a weird thing. Oh, Diddy Shady. Why is your best friend dead? That's weird. Don't be so close to that guy, ever.

He's so shady. Don't be friends with him, ever. If you value your life, don't be friends with Diddy. At least Suge Knight lets you know what the fuck he is up front. I'm dangerous as fuck. You don't even have to hear it from him. Look at his face. Look at his face. okay at least suge knight yeah let you know what the fuck he is right up front up front you're dangerous as fuck well you don't even have to hear it from him you can just look at his face he looks like i will fucking run you over with my truck during a joyous occasion on a camera during a joyous occasion on film with zero smiles because my face isn't i don't even have to i'm not even

mad at you i'll just run you over and not care that's how it works but like that's what he does whereas puff daddy comes across like hey i'm gonna dance all look at me in my in my fucking shiny suit look at me hey i'm all nice and shit and then under the cover behind closed doors you know oh boy yeah he's got all sorts of triangle goods and then he does that have a drink of this vodka and and be drunk so that you don't know what i'm doing who knows who knows what he's doing we don't know that at all but uh we do know some shady stuff that he did uh kind of underworld shit involved in yeah but that's fine anyway uh so all the way back to march 9th biggie is dead very very sad these people have no idea i'm sure yeah they they have not heard the news let's just say here it didn't come in on w hey no they didn't they didn't announce it over the over the w hey yeah

and i feel like that also comes in over the tv it's just the uh it's just like the the color old school like barcode color test with radio playing over it i feel like that's what their tv is if you if you move your antenna just the, obviously, otherwise you're not going to get it. Not going to work. So March 9th, 1997. Jesus Christ. In between Little Big Town and Craig Morgan replays. That's how it works.

The Wilma Jean Ferrier. She's a 26-year-old woman. Goes by Jean. Willa Jean, I'm sorry. And by Jean. Jean or Willa Jean. I'm sorry. And she likes Jean better than Willa. Yeah. So Jean Ferrier.

She's a 26 year old girl here. She lives lives in Whitley City. Has a trailer there. And her mother is trying to reach her all day and could not get a hold of her. Can't get a hold of Jean all day and could not get a hold of her uh can't get a hold of uh of gene all day long so her mother uh decides to call the police to uh you know investigate where i can't get a hold of my daughter i called her over and over she's supposed to be home and she's not there and there's really nothing else going on in the town so what the fuck you know it's not like well we

have ma'am we're backed up with calls you're gonna have to call 9-1-1 if you have an emergency they're just like wilma is that you? Yeah, we'll go check on Jean. No problem. She's still in the old trailer on the green one on the car. Okay, sure. They all know each other. On our way.

That's fine. He just calls the cops on the CB. That's how it works. Breaker, breaker, one nine. I got a police request for some bullies on the. So she calls. They, the police come over they investigate uh the trailer they enter the trailer and it's a sunday afternoon and what they find is uh is a

little bit frightening here in the back of the trailer uh there's two bedrooms and in one bedroom they find the body of a 22 year old crystal conister uh there uh and uh and also of gene farrier number who's 26 years old and then in another bedroom they find the body of 38 year old chris r boswell holy shit so two women and a man three Three people. Three people, 26, 22, and 38 years old. That's like 3% of the population. Yeah, a lot of the population right there. Done. So they were all found. Now, Jean lives there, and Crystal is her close friend. And Chris, they don't know how he relates to this, is Chris Boswell.

They only know him from identification they find in the police. It's the only way they find out who he is. know him from identification they find in the place it's the only way they find out who he is uh so uh all have been shot to death uh with you know with some stank on it they've been shot and shot again yeah shot a lot and also gene had been choked prior to being shot lord so uh this is a pretty brutal scene in general and then you look at it right away and you go okay there's three people three people dead all shot one of them's choked so you try at it right away and you go okay there's three people three people dead all shot one of them's choked so you try to put that together and you go okay well she was the main one either she's the main one or she has to be at least she has to be the last one probably

or maybe not or maybe he was choking her other people came in tried to intervene he shot them and then said fuck choking i'm gonna shoot her. You got to think about that because if there's three people, you can't choke and shoot three people at the same time. So that's a difficult thing. Just the logistics of it. She either has to be first or last on the list. Yeah, it's an investigation. Well, it's lucky you're not a homicide detective then. It's probably for the best.

It's good. Helps us all. I'm happy I'm not also because i don't think i'd be very good at it either that's a clever thought though because i'm just trying to think of yeah she's got to be first or last yeah that's it you don't shoot somebody and then start choking somebody and then somebody else is in the room that's what i mean there has to be some sort of something either that caused it but then if that caused a fight wouldn't there be a struggle with those people so maybe he shot them and then went after her or maybe he went after her and then they came out and said what are those gunshots and then got shot for that gotcha it's got to be first or last in my mind anyway uh here

now okay where what the fuck happened obviously these people people, they look around, they're not, that's how, how place hasn't been ransacked. Uh, it's not a robbery. And we've got two that are known to each other. And then some random dude, we have no idea who that is. Yeah. Some random guy who's older to 38 as opposed to 26 and 22.

So you're like, that's an odd thing. It doesn't belong. And you wonder like, they don't have like, this isn't like, Oh, they're the big,

they're the drug dealers that the cops have been putting a case together on none of that shit here they're not known for this isn't known as like a place where you know crazy shit goes down and where the mexican mafia hangs out or anything you know like it's just a trailer where some kids chill and you know hang out and people in their 20s so it's not it's a very odd thing so they have to put together what the fuck happened well who's the last person that saw them alive is a good place to start there uh so they end up uh finding that out they track down the last person to see them alive is a 16 year old girl named april sexton apparently april sexton had been dropped off at her trailer by this group

at uh 12 30 or 1 a.m the night before how old is she she is 16 years old i don't understand this what the fuck we'll find out why they went out dancing and we'll find out about this and they go out all the time but a 26 year old a 22 year old and a 16 year old who aren't related right went out i could see if like the 16 year old was the two older girls little cousin and they were taking her out or something like that but it's that's none of that they're just friends right which is weird and and a 38 year old guy yeah well yeah yeah that he was on the thing too that was that dude hanging out with a 16 year old that this group ranges from 16 to 38 with shit in between it's a real i get that the ages are sporadic in this town and somebody might have been 87 and

somebody could have been six in the car also and it would have made sense but this is weird shit this is just strange so their pal myrtle and their little buddy archie yeah that's so fucking weird dude this is bananas this is a weird case right away so apparently uh yeah they they were out and they were and april was dropped off at her trailer at 12 30 or 1 a.m uh so she was the last person to you know be in contact with them and then they drove after that their next movement was to the trailer of a man named gary roberts yeah now gary roberts has been uh uh uh gary roberts has been involved with uh with gene uh in a relationship for a little while here and uh so that's that's been going on uh we'll talk about that uh so it's closed they stop they

honk the horn at gary roberts house and then drive away and go to gene's trailer that's how this worked now i don't know if they were just like that might have been like he she told them they were going out and he said hey just honk the horn as you drive by let me know that you're getting home safe that sort of thing because they live close to each other it's a small town but i mean i i feel like that's probably what it was one of those like as you're coming home honk so i know you're safe okay probably what it was one of those like as you're coming home honk so i know you're safe okay type of shit rather than call me like now it'd be like hey send me a text when you get home let me know but that wasn't an option in 1997 i've never heard of that

i haven't either i'm just i'm assuming that's what it was like a honk just to be like hey we're driving by as a latchkey dude yeah i just crawled into bed. Yeah, absolutely. Well, this isn't, this is a boyfriend. Yeah, these are adults. Yeah, these are adults. Just, you know, hey, make sure you didn't get killed and thrown in the woods or something.

So where the fuck were they? Yeah. That's a good question. On the night of March 9th, they were, because March 10th, they were discovered. That's the Sunday.

The Saturday is March 9th. That's when this all went down. On March 9th, they all go out 26 year old gene 22 year old crystal 16 year old april sexton uh they all go out together uh they leave uh mccreary county and they go to a country music dance hall in somerset yeah because there's nowhere to right there's not a lot of dancing the bluegrass festival yeah isn't here yet. It's not happening yet, and there's not a lot of places to dance to Achy Breaky Heart

around where they are. So they're like, we need to find some good dancing. So they go to this Somerset. Apparently, they did this just about every Friday and Saturday night. This group went dancing at this place in Somerset, which sounds terrible terrible but this is all they have

literally it's either this or there's other opportunities for recreation which we talked about you can go outside and look at the grass and trees and climb them that's what you can fucking do set up a badminton net no one's stopping you opportunity is what i told you jesus christ so you can take coat hangers and make a croquet a croquet croquet because i'm not pronouncing that french shit did anybody tell you not to did that is that what it said opera opportunities for recreation except hanger croquet that's not what i said you dumb son bitch do it do it so they went there all the time, apparently. This was a thing. Now, while they were there, they meet Chris Boswell.

That's where he comes from. He is from the club. So this 38-year-old dude went out country dancing on a Saturday night and fucking met some chicks. He met some younger chicks and got lucky. Good for him. He meets Crystal. He meets 22-year-old old crystal and they get they get a little groove on yeah uh they dance while they're there uh and you know have a good time i dare you james i defy you to learn how to two-step and then go two-step and then see if

sarah doesn't go get your fucking hands off her. I see how sexy. It's the most fun thing in the world. And you will have so much fun that somebody will think that you two are together. What the fuck are you talking about? What the fuck are you talking about? Country dancing is the most fun thing ever. If you're a hillbilly, I don't find that fun. The look you just gave me. If I hear hear that fucking music i don't want to dance i want to find the source of it and make it stop i'm not

going well how could i let's do a little thing i want to kill who's playing it and then interrogate everybody else of why they weren't doing it also why we weren't hunting this man down together fuck are you talking about he says his eyes i nothing i hate more than country music it is fingernails on a chalkboard plus like none of it none of the puppies being run over by a backtrack if it's from like the 60s i like some shit like that you can dance to i'm not dancing to good music i'm not you don't dance to that how white are you jimmy jesus christ man i'm telling you it is no no no no you dance to motown if you're gonna dance you don't dance to fucking old sad people with alcohol problems telling you about it that's not danceable the fuck is wrong with you people by that i mean country fans i'm white also but still oh the look the no i can't i don't like it i can't stay i can't take

it i'm from new york jimmy i didn't hear country music till i moved out here i didn't even know it i thought it was like a joke like like oh yeah people have listened to country music then i moved out here and people seriously listen to country music i was like oh they make that shit still i'm crying i thought the last country album came out in 1974 i really did i thought like johnny cash put out an album and that was it just quit everyone said fuck it that's it we're not trying anymore we stopped and then billy ray cyrus came on the scene and i was like holy shit the rednecks are still active wow what the fuck is going on so i don't know i that went right by and over and around my ass i'm telling you it's fun you seem to be very serious about that so i'm gonna take

your word for it i bet you you'd be full of joy doing that i'd like to watch you do that just because you'd be happy you're talking yeah you I'd like to watch you do that just because you'd be happy. Now you're talking. You'd watch me do it and be like, are those two together? But through plexiglass so I can't hear the music. I want like two-way glass. I don't want to hear it. But if I could observe from the outside,

just maybe with binoculars, I could watch you having fun. I'd go, hey, look at Jimmy. He looks like he's having a good time. And that makes me happy because I like to watch you. I like you having fun. I like you. You're a good person. It's got an ear that makes me happy because i like to watch it i like you having fun i like you you're a good person it's got an earphone jacket you pick the headphones up goes it's still cut it's still it's still country yeah i just have yeah i just have something in my earbuds something else going on pretend you're oh god it hurts so bad pretend you're dancing to fucking biggie i don't't know. Whatever. Oh, Jesus Christ. That's awesome.

Oh, Jesus. I've got a cramp. It hurts so bad. That's so funny, too, because half our audience is going to be like, it's the best. You need to do it.

And then the other half is going to be like, James, don't fucking listen to that shit. Don't dance with rednecks. So that's what's going to be funny. I love it. All right. So they meet Chris Bos going to be funny. I love it. All right.

So they meet Chris Boswell and Chris Boswell and Crystal apparently make this connection that Jimmy's talking about. They thought they were together, too, as a matter of fact. So you know what? I'm going to take your word for it because you're apparently right. It worked for 38 year old Chris Boswell and a 22 year old. So fuck it. On second thought, cut that shit off.

I don't want it. That's too much. It's too much. 22? 22 and 38. It can work, but that's a bit much. It's a stretch. It's a bit of a stretch.

So afterwards, Chris leaves with the women in the car, which that's weird. If you're 38 and you're like, cool, I'm getting with this 22-year-old, that's all fine and dandy, I guess, if that's what you want to do. But aren't you like, you got a 16-year-old in the car? I'm 38. I can't get in the car with a 16-year-old. I can't leave a bar with a 16-year-old girl in the vehicle.

I can't do that. If we get pulled over, I'm just going to jail. They're not going to even know why. They'll figure it out when we get to the station, but they're definitely taking me in cuffs and then figuring it out later they're going to think i touched her you're up to something you probably deserve this we're just going to hold you let's just you know what just let's just do hands behind your back for now let's just just for now okay this is we'll figure it out later you'll just get out and go i get it yeah and just let them back she's sick okay yeah they naturally go right above your butt absolutely so uh crystal uh so crystal april

chris and gene all leave the place on the way home they drop off april 12 30 or one o'clock they stop by jerry roberts driveway honk drive to Jean's trailer. Like we talked about now, uh, in Somerset at the club that night, though, there was some fear that they had earlier. This all seems like a fun night, but when they got to the club, they weren't all that. The whole group had the fear with the whole group.

The three girls had fear because they showed up. It was just Jean crystal in April. When they showed up, they pick Chris up later. Uh, when they get there, apparently, uh,

Jean, uh, was afraid. And when they get there apparently uh jean uh was afraid and when she got there she circled the parking lot three times before she parked because she wanted to make sure that someone in particular was not there that she's afraid of so that's a bad sign but then once she got into the into the evening and once they were going you know you got you get in there nothing bad happens you dance for a couple hours. You have a few drinks. This girl meets him.

It's Chris. Everybody's having a good time. And then you forget about, well, you know, that guy's not here. Who cares? So apparently she was circled the parking lot out of fear and then finally parked. She is afraid, 26-year-old Jean, of a guy named John Roscoe garland uh who is her ex-boyfriend um and she is sort of an on and off relationship with him uh he is 54 years old so i mean i i get it the the ages are all fucked up the ages are all fucked up and i feel like in this town there just isn't that much

who knows what's available right who knows how many 26 year old people there are to fucking try to find so if you find 54 or whatever that's weird so it's weird that's that's a big age that's too that's too much that's a big yeah that's your 30s and your 40s yeah that's a lot that's a lot there that's i don't know what you have in common there but uh 54 yeah uh you're alive yeah exactly so she is also but this relationship that she had with with john roscoe garland uh has ended and kind of run its course and in the last few weeks she's been in another relationship with a man named gary roberts who is the guy who they stopped in his driveway and honked the horn okay so uh they look at it this way and they're looking at it going okay okay, we have Gary Roberts who knows that they were going to the trailer.

They beeped to alert him. So he is currently in a relationship with her. That's a suspect right there, a current boyfriend. And then John Roscoe Garland is the ex-boyfriend, obviously also a factor. And April tells everybody afterwards, tells police after the bodies are found that uh

that gene was in fear of john roscoe garland encircled the parking lot three times so uh now what they also find in the trailer is they find an audio tape uh that uh discovers that um it's an audio tape of john roscoe garland talking with Jean. And it is about her being pregnant. And she's saying she's pregnant. And he is saying that he believes that Roberts is the father. And he's mad about that. That he thinks that Roberts is the father, even though they were just together. But she's also been with Gary.

And the way the timing works out, he thinks it's her. He thinks it's Gary's. And he's upset about it there okay so who the fuck is john roscoe garland i'm curious let's get with that here uh he's born july 24th 1942 so he's like we said he's a 56 year old at this point uh he is from pine knot a nearby town over here not much better he had worked for crawford steel in cincinnati back in the day i mean you know when steel was when the steel industry was pumping i'm sure probably in the 70s he's working there uh he was a tool and die maker there so i mean that that doesn't go on in that in the rust belt much anymore a little bit uh he was also uh he's also a church guy

not not heavily but he you know he would go to the Baptist Church, make his appearance there. People people said he was just kind of a wise ass kind of a guy, kind of a jokey kind of guy. Not like not a real, you know, dour dude. Not not a not a grim Roscoe. You know, we'll call him not not like that. He's a John Roscoe Garland here. He's not anything like that. He's he's known as kind of we'll call him. Not like that. He's a John Roscoe Garland here. He's not anything like that. He's known as kind of a jokester and shit like that.

Happy-go-lucky? Sort of. Outgoing? Yeah. He's a storyteller kind of jokey guy. I like it. You know, he's that kind of guy. He works at the fucking steel plant.

He's a storyteller. You know the guy we're talking about. HR Nightmare. Yeah, HR Nightmare. Yeah. He's like you at the... Hell're talking about hr nightmare yeah hr nightmare yeah he's he's like you at the hell yeah so i'll bet he dances like a i'm sure he does he cuts a mean groove here so uh he's been upset and he's let everyone know that he's been upset since gene cut the

relationship off with him uh he has not been happy and especially not happy that she started seeing gary roberts because i don't know why just she's jealous yeah he's a jealous guy and uh yeah he's also older and you know she's younger and he's kind of possessive of her in that way kind of from a specific generation where when a girl leaves you it's it's a slight that's the thing yeah uh now uh she he does believe that she's pregnant with Gary Roberts' child also. And so does Gary. Gary thinks the same thing. Gary thinks it's his and so does John. So they both think it's Gary's.

It's probably Gary's, we'll say. And so does she. So now, if all this happens here, a month before this, in February, john roscoe garland told his son roscoe it was just roscoe not not a junior but roscoe garland that he was going to kill gene because he was so mad that comes out that he told his son a month before that he wanted to kill her uh and then a week before this happened on march 2nd he fired his gun in the direction of her trailer whoa just he was just out there driving by they live pretty close like up the hill so he just would go outside and fire gunshots in the direction of her trailer

wow just for i don't know shits and giggles i don't know what kind of old westy weird yosemite sam type shit that is to do why isn't he arrested right then for that shit because it's it's kentuck it's kentuck. Seriously, where are they going to go? He could have been shooting anywhere. You don't know where he's shooting. He could have been shooting at fucking animals. Would you get your trailer out of the way of his turkeys? Yeah, come on.

Jesus. This is a turkey trail, not a trailer park. You got the trail part right, but just the rest of it wrong. Well, he was outdoors, and he found an opportunity. That's what happens. Right. Now, so, yeah, he's been upset and his son talks about that also. So firing shots there.

And also that Saturday, March 9th, that afternoon earlier, you know, before they went out, the reason why Gene was scared of him, particularly that night, is that he fired shots into the ground near her trailer earlier in the afternoon. Yeah. It's like two o'clock. He came over yelling and screaming and fired shots into the ground near her trailer earlier in the afternoon. Yeah. It's like two o'clock. He came over yelling and screaming and fired shots into the ground, which is behavior. He should be in jail for firing shots into the ground while he's threatening and yelling at somebody. You can't do that. Why is that legal?

That's apparently legal in Kentucky, in rural southern Kentucky. That's fine to do. That's crazy. That's just considered emphasizing your point. It's called the Kentucky exclamation point. It's called the Kentucky fuck. That's what that is. That's what it is.

I think fuck, yeah. Where you throw a fuck on the end of a word. Yeah, that's the exclamation point. It's a Kentucky exclamation point. That's what you call that. Rather than a fuck, which was an Arizona exclamation point, I believe we said. No, it was an Alabama exclamation point. Alabama exclamation point than a fuck which was a arizona exclamation point i believe we said uh this is or no it was an alabama exclamation point alabama exclamation point is a fuck and a kentuck

exclamation point is firing several shots into the ground in front of the domicile of your intended target an ex-girlfriend or ex-girlfriend let's face it ex-girlfriend it's always going to be the ex-girlfriend just indiscriminate fire just industry into the you can't do that this guy's just always got a gun out firing shit it's like a even in an old west movie yeah nobody took their gun out just indiscriminately fired if bullets were expensive like what is this guy doing and as much as they were back then so much more now they're crazy now i mean just imagine this. To waste the money? Just walking around.

What, is he just having his hand all the time, too? That's the other thing. You have to keep taking it out. Like, he might as well not. Might as well just walk around with it in his hand, I guess, because he's always got it out. He's always whipping it out, shooting at things. Is he the rich guy in the neighborhood?

Because according to your stats, the man makes 17 grand. Why is he wasting so many bullets, sir? I don't think they spend a lot of money on housing. He probably re-shells them. I think so. I think he goes and pulls them out of trees and shit. He kills a deer. He's like, I'm going to find that son of a bitch.

He goes in there with pliers. I'll re-shape that slug. Pair a needle nose and just get it in there. I can make it work. It'll come out again. I don't know if it's going to rifle right, but going it's gonna come out it's gonna hit something just as long as it's the ground in front of the trailer it's fine so uh those are his ground bullets these are my exclamation point bullets i use them they use once to shoot something then it's an exclamation point and then

i just let it go call these carpet bombers bombers. Because I ain't trash. You know what I mean? So, yeah. This makes police go, we're going to be more suspicious of him than Gary Roberts. As a matter of fact, let's go pick him up. Let's go pick him up. Let's have a chat today. But they want to have a chat with him, but they can't find him. And they can't find him.

They can't find him. And finally, they have a witness step forward. You could consider him a star witness steps forward. And we'll talk about him in a second. And it gives them the information that they need to make an arrest. They do not make an arrest, though, until April 26th, 1997. So six weeks go by. That's a long time here in frontier justice. That's a long time.

So he ends up being found in uh onita tennessee so he is kind of uh he is found uh arrested outside of a hospital in scott county tennessee apparently he was leaving the hospital checking out of the hospital he had just been released and he uh was picked up by the cops he said uh, you know, he was, I don't know what you mean. What do you want to talk to me for? Yeah, he didn't understand what was going on. They said that what he was in the hospital for was unrelated to any of this shit. It wasn't like a...

Had a nail or something. Yeah, it was whatever the hell. He had something. I don't know. He's in his 50s. Might have a health problem now and then. Maybe one of the reloads misfired. You never know.

So they arrest him and they say that an informant led them to the murder weapon and uh which is which was uh found in a wooded area about three miles from the scene okay so three miles from the scene and in the woods someone has to really know where that fucking gun is to go get it and three miles into the woods that means just away from here but still somebody wanted it away from here, but still in the woods. Somebody wanted it away from here. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they still didn't destroy it. They put it in the woods.

So, yeah, they end up arresting him. And first thing he wants to know is, you know, who the fuck the witness is. And it's Roscoe, his son. It's his own son. Roscoe had told the police that about a month before the murders, his father said he was going to kill Gene, like we discussed. He also describes what happened on March 9th, the afternoon. This is after this is post Kentucky exclamation points in the ground in front of the trailer. OK, so Jesus Christ, this is fucking nuts here.

So Roscoe, John Roscoe and his son Roscoe. So we're going to go. John is the father. Roscoe is his son roscoe so we're gonna go john is the father roscoe is the son i'm on board so john and roscoe uh they were going to go to the london auto auction which is not in any london that you've ever seen or heard of they're gonna go to the london auto auction and there was a traffic jam i don't know where there was so much traffic in kentucky i don't understand it but uh i don't know how all the five to nine-year-olds and 85-plus-year-olds got in cars and got out there, but they did. 1,200 people trying to leave. It all got bottled up.

They turned around and went home. Yeah. I don't know if there's one road with no lane lines, and it's just a fucking good luck kind of a thing. A redneck Autobahn? Yeah. Barely fits two cars. It's just a white knuckle it all the way down if you need to get out of there. That's why nobody leaves ever.

The road's dangerous. The federal government won't build a new one. Damn it. So due to a traffic jam, though, they said they were changing plans and they weren't going to do it. So they turn around and they instead uh uh follow uh gene this was uh at night see now this is the weird thing that i don't get though here uh uh it's it's strange he said they were going to go to the london auto auction and then change plans and turned around and looked for gene but this gene was a long's a long traffic jam. That's a long traffic jam.

It's like 12.30, 1 o'clock in the morning. So they weren't going to the auto auction at 1 o'clock in the morning. So it doesn't seem like an either-or thing. It wasn't like we were either going to go to the auto auction or go stalk Gene. It was like, it seems like you could do both, probably. Or only do the stalking part.

Or the stalking part. But yeah, he says that they were going to go, and they didn't. They came home, and he says he says instead they ended up going and kind of hunting Jean down and finding her at this club and following her home to her trailer. The two of them together. The two of them together. He brings his kid with him. This is what I mean.

He would have had to have gone somewhere else and then his kid would have had to come with him also. His kid's a full grown man. He's not a child also. He's in his 20s, and he has a criminal record as long as your fucking leg. His kid, by the way, when this is all going on, his kid ends up already in jail in Tennessee for stealing guns or some shit. His kid is always in and out of jail. He's got a lot of legal problems uh

really long history of issues so uh but he says here i don't know why the son would still be with him if he was going to go out and stalk his ex-girlfriend like want to come with me yeah no i don't know if your son's a piece of shit i guess you guess you figure he's not going to talk no he's not going to talk but yeah why would he want to come with me you know i don't know he's got to have something better to do w hey he's got to have something i know it's late at night there's not a lot of recreation that's true there's not you know very little like you know what this is an opportunity yeah it is this is as much of an opportunity as you get like you could follow someone and then shoot them i mean that's a that's an opportunity you have it's could also put up a fucking badminton net, like we said earlier, so you never know.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st.

Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and

just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious

crimes. You should tune in to our podcast Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. There's two of you. Yeah. So they follow her home to the trailer. They watch them go inside the trailer.

And then apparently John gets out of the car and goes inside the trailer and roscoe out in the car can hear arguing inside you can hear yelling and screaming and arguing uh in there so now roscoe goes gets out of the car and he goes inside too why what are you doing what the fuck none of my concern not my business none of my god damn i'll just fire off a couple exclamation points and let everyone know i'm out here i was in the bathroom you know that goes here so roscoe ends up going inside the house also now uh now at this point they're both kind of toward the front door in the living room just inside the door and uh no no uh well yeah roscoe walks in and he's just inside the door. But just in front of him is John and Gene arguing right there. They're in the front of the trailer right in the living room there. And they're arguing. And he said, Roscoe said they both appeared to be disheveled from a fight. They both appeared to be disheveled from a fight, is what he said.

And I guess at this point in time, while they're in the middle of an argument, Chris Boswell, the 38-year-old, comes out of the bedroom half-dressed. He comes out of one of the bedrooms with his shirt off and shorts and boxers. He comes out. Oh, this ain't good. This is going to be bad. So John turns around, sees this, and fucking shoots Chris. Right chris right now right now takes his gun out no exclamation point shoots the shit out of chris oh boy uh chris ends up falling into a bedroom and uh and that's that he he dies right there well now we've got a situation

now we got a situation so then he goes back toward toward toward. No, no. Toward Chris to toward the body and ends up looking and seeing that Crystal is in there. And he just realizes what he just did. Yeah. I shot the wrong dude. That dude wasn't fucking Gene. That dude was fucking Crystal. Whoops.

Whoops. A daisy. But Crystal's here. Better shoot her, too. So he raises his gun. This is a 357, by the way. Okay. I was going to guess a 38. he raises his gun this is a 357 by the way okay i was gonna guess it's always a 38 or 57 with these people this is a 357 uh he raises this 357 and uh shoots crystal and then for good measure looks down and shoots chris again and then says you

know what i don't know goes back one more and shoots crystal again so he shoots each of them twice in like rotating succession which is weird he's got like a round robin tournament happening here now he's got two left now he's got his son and now he's got gene no i mean two rounds two rounds left yeah so now bang bang bang bang he shot them so uh they are they are dead two shots from a inside from a trailer range. We'll call it close range. It doesn't have to be trailer range. Anywhere inside of a single wide, a.357 will fuck you up and two shots will kill you.

Especially down there. I feel like these guys know how to shoot because you have to probably... He put it in the right neighborhood. He put it in the right... And that's all you need to do with a.357. And usually, rural people shoot well. Oh, God well oh god we always find this in these cases these rural people they've hunted they shoot well you know it's like in the civil war yeah they got people that were farmers and shit and they were great shots they barely had to fucking train them

and all the city people were like jesus christ they're much better shots than us we had to shoot if we wanted to eat dinner that's what happened no literally that's what it was like well we're used to hunting that's how we fucking survive around the southern guys would say we're used to hunting squirrels right how hard is to fucking shoot a squirrel that shit it's much easier to hit a guy like it's it's that's what they'd say there's never a dude that runs as fast as a squirrel never and that sky's war of the civil war they're walking right at you should not even sideways you think they would have said sideways give them less area to hit that's what i always i've wondered that since elementary school just off the subject for a moment since elementary school why are you walking center mass straight ahead that's crazy

they taught us the revolutionary war and i'm like and they showed us the thing and they're like they lined up and i'm like hold on they lined up yeah they lined up and that's what they did and you know you got shot and i'm like okay that sounds i guess honorable whatever that's they wanted to kill each other but then the civil war they just lined up in rows and then marched at each other but there was no like honor to it like they didn't want to get shot they didn't stand in the lines but it made no sense turn sideways sideways everybody at minimum zigzag it half of us won't get killed sideways in a long line so i mean you're gonna shoot down the lanes here nobody sway from the fucking lanes man you're gonna save

so many guys half the guys could have been saved i feel like if we would have just marched sideways just teach them how to sidestep it and we're so safe holy shit grapevine walk it let's go that's it man you're safe much but i mean still gonna be death obviously but no those shots right in the middle of the chest man not so much so uh yeah anyway he's uh he shot crystal he shot chris they're both dead uh so then he comes back to the living room and finds jean and she's terrified now because there's no reason not to be oh she's terrified yeah he just shot everybody and he's, you know, been shooting

gunplay and him are common and now it's turned to death. So then he turns to Jean and he shoots her too. Have to. But this was after they said he was she had the choke marks on her. We think that's before the fight. That's the fight that happened

originally that this fight happened and then that caused Chris the fight. That's the fight that happened originally that this fight happened. And then that caused Chris to a fight. That's so intense that people stopped fucking to figure out what it was, which is, that's a pretty good fight. If you're fucking a stranger that you just met at a bar to, to stop that in the middle of it and go, hold on,

there's something going on out there. There's definitely a fight. What's going on? There's, there has to be a serious confrontation going on, on you know because otherwise you're going against all your better judgments anyway so like at this point what do you do good judgments out the window yeah you're gonna go investigate so uh that that's what we figured that was a choking shot you know shoots those two comes back shoots him so or shoots her so rather than her being first or last

she's both she's first and last which is the other option she's either first last or first and then last my christ one of the fucking two that's a terrible option that's that's the worst option possible because then you get to watch everyone else get killed after you were terrified to begin with and then get shot yourself also uh so uh roscoe the son also tells police that his father basically said that he was arguing with Gene, shot Boswell to prevent a fight, pretty much, and shot Crystal because she was there. And yeah, after a few minutes, apparently, this is the weird part. When he came back out, I forgot to mention this. When he came back out, she wasn't out in the living room but she didn't leave she went in like the bathroom

i don't know why gene did she went like the bathroom and then came out after the shootings and that's when he shot her okay so i don't know why she didn't choose to try to climb out a window or something like that but she went into another room and then came back out knowing that these gunshots maybe there was no escape from whatever room she went maybe those trailers have small windows in the bathroom i'm not even joking around some of the bathrooms are like center yeah and they don't have shit you can't get out at all yeah that might have been it uh right there uh not sure though but uh anyway she was shot also this is what roscoe just to tell him how the whole thing went down now uh roscoe the, he does tell police he admits that he helped his father cover everything up by burning clothing that they were wearing and hiding the 357 that that used to belong to Roscoe.

He said, as my gun, I used to have it. My dad was using it now and, you know, firing shots off and everywhere. And, you know, he's got that. So Roscoe tells the police that John, his father, told Roscoe to put the gun in a bag and to hide it. And then the next day, the very next day, John told his son to get him another gun, another.357, because he needs it. Because they said, quote,

as everyone knows, John always carries a gun. He's apparently always has a gun on him. And it's 357 is his gun of choice. That's his thing. Always has it. Always whipping it out. Fire it up. I mean, I don't know how he went this long.

Fifty something years in life without shooting somebody else. As much as he's just licking off shots. Indiscriminate fucking shot fire. It seems like you would accidentally hit somebody at some point yeah always this good a shot that's the thing yeah you are it's so strange so i don't know so he did that now john the next day i guess uh bought uh john gave roscoe his son's girlfriend

money to buy a gun from a guy named clayton Stevens to buy another.357 from him. So he does. He buys another.357 from Clayton Stevens. So the very next day, he's already packing again. Who the fuck else does he have left to shoot? You shot three people. What are the odds you're going to have to shoot somebody again today? How many X's you got, bro?

Oh, yeah. How many people you got problems with here? like how many x's you got bro oh yeah how many people you got problems with here so uh uh now uh apparently here uh that was the the son claims that the thing that set him off into the shooting frenzy was chris walking out in his underwear that uh apparently made him go oh you're fucking this guy now too i thought you were fucking the other guy you're pregnant with maybe my kid maybe this one's and now you're fucking this guy shots fired but you shoot him exclamation point yeah yeah that's a crazy target you know what i mean it's insane the whole thing is not it's not his no no matter what scenario you just cooked up in your head of what just happened that's not your target bro that would

be the most understandable murder because you could see somebody flying into a rage and just doing that you could see that's like when they say crime of passion that's the definition of a crime of passion is you walk in and you're arguing and then something then you see somebody's been fucking your that would make somebody's your rage that in your head yeah not legally no in your head but that would be in under the terms of the law extreme emotional disturbance though to where you can at least that's a mitigating factor of hey obviously normally i wouldn't do this but the extreme crazy scenario of seeing that made me snap and that you know usually it'll get you off the death penalty at least or something like that so uh yeah so the the uh they really they concentrate on this audio cassette that he made a month before uh where he

was saying that he uh on the tape roscoe or john i'm sorry john the father is heard to say that he made a month before where he was saying that he, on the tape, Roscoe, or John, I'm sorry, John, the father, is heard to say that he knows Jean is pregnant and that he would love the baby even though he knows that Gary Roberts is the father. So that's what he was saying on the tape. Like, I won't treat your baby different just because it's Gary's and blah, blah, blah.

Like, he's trying to reconcile with her that way. And Gary Roberts told police that he dated Jean for four or five months before she was shot and that uh that gene was about a little over a month pregnant with his baby at the time she was shot yeah that's what they said uh autopsy report though says that gene not even fucking pregnant she ain't even pregnant oh my god she told both those guys she's pregnant oh she's not pregnant and hasn't been recently what the fuck jean was never pregnant oh what did you do that so for the last month though yeah everybody's thought she's pregnant that's a terrible and like definitely pregnant like everybody like they were like okay well to

make plans for the baby type thing and uh yeah not pregnant so these two yeah this is the thing like not a reason to shoot no god no shit what a shit god no god no but it's a terrible lie to tell anybody but to make something like that up but this is a but let's say for instance maybe she really genuinely thinks that she hasn't taken a pregnancy test she's too scared to apparently that she took she told everybody she was positive on a pregnancy test that was the thing if she was just saying i think i'm pregnant that would be a different story. But no, this was, I'm pregnant. What are we going to do?

Oh, shit. It's Gary's blah, blah, blah. So this whole thing, he originally is mad because he thinks she's pregnant and he thinks it's his, which he's happy about. Then he finds out it's not his. So he's mad about that. So he goes over there and sees what he thinks is another guy fucking her, which it isn't. So she's happy about then he finds out it's not his so he's mad about that so he goes over there and sees what he thinks is another guy fucking her which it isn't so she's not pregnant for that original thing and that guy's not fucking her this is all a huge misunderstanding not

misunderstanding everything it's a lie it's a story that a dude cooked up in his own fucking head with help from she definitely sprinkled some cheese and salt on it and shit i mean she dressed that fucker like she seasoned it. I mean, the whole thing doesn't start without that. But you don't expect. I don't care what somebody lies to you about. You can't shoot them. That's not an okay thing.

You can be mad at them for that. If he went over and said, I found out you're not pregnant. You're a horrible human being. And I think you're a piece of shit. And you've been blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Fuck you. I never want to see you again. Completely understandable. Legal. Can't choke or shoot. that's where you draw that's that's the line right there and uh yeah he went over there and the chris

thing and he was like you're fucking this guy too now i'll shoot everybody i don't give a fuck you can see it happen oh you could 100 see this especially in a guy like this who's not all uh you know kind of all there uh and then when he hears the pregnancy thing that she's not pregnant now later on i'm sure when he's in jail he finds that out and he's going to be like this is why you don't date somebody you shouldn't be dating you know what i mean because when you see that somebody is i don't know whether it's above what you should be dating or just beyond beyond out of your league just well not even out of your league out of your comfort zone right now you know that sounds terrible because you should give everybody a

chance and sometimes opposites do attract but for the most part they they fire off kentuck exclamation points in the front of their trailer that's the problem it causes so many insecurities when you're 50 fucking six and you're dating a 26 year old that's the thing unless you're excessively wealthy and you go i don't care if she leaves i'll find her 10 more i'll get one two years younger tomorrow wealthy guys that's a different story but if you're 54 and you live in a fucking trailer and the 26 year old you were banging is pregnant with some other guy's fucking kid that might be the end of your world at that point you might so yeah um so he uh when arrest John, he denies committing the murders. He says, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I didn't shoot anybody. Roscoe is lying. My son's a fucking liar. And that gun that you say that is mine is actually his. So you want to talk to anybody about a murder, that's the guy to talk to, not me. Roscoe's the one who showed you where the weapon was, and it's his weapon, and he seems to know everything that happened. So I don't know why you're fucking talking to me. That's his response.

Logical. Which is logical. Yeah, it is logical. He says that he tells the officers, John does, that he spent that night of the 9th with Roscoe. Yet he says that later on, this is where he says, yes, we were going to go to the London auto auction, but then we didn't go. And that actually happened. But that's when me and Roscoe split up. He said that's when he went on his way and I went on my way.

He said that he ended up going to London where the auto auction was to visit his ex-wife, Eula. E-U-L-A. Eula Isgrig. Yeah. With two G's at the end. Where is she from? It's a weird name. Not McCreary County. Eula Isgrig. Yeah. With two G's at the end. Where is she from? It's a weird name. Not McCreary County.

Not Kentucky? Not Kentucky. So he's going to go visit his ex-wife, Eula. That's his story. And now Eula said that at first they asked Eula about that, and she said that she hadn't seen him for some time, but he did come over to her house the Monday after the bodies were found. Shot Saturday night, bodies found Sunday. He came over to her house Monday.

But later on, the next day, she went to police and changed her story and said, actually, it wasn't Monday. He came to her house about two o'clock in the morning on Saturday night, which is what he says he did. Okay. So now she goes, no, no, he was there. My bad. I was two days off. Instead of it being Monday afternoon,

it was actually the middle of the night Saturday. So you know how that goes. You get things mixed up. Sometimes you confuse them. I get shit like that mixed up all the time. Sun up, sun down, who knows? Notice one thing, too. Monday afternoon, none of these people were coming from where? yeah that's the other question how do you not know the

difference whether because you should have been at work eula that's the thing but uh yeah i don't think i don't i honestly don't think anyone here can help it though i honestly don't think there's i don't think it's for lack of trying i think it's just lack of opportunity lack of opportunity unless you want to go chop that tree down and it's free. I don't know. So, yeah, she said that she first lied because she was scared, which I don't know why she would be like, because she was. That makes no sense. She has nothing to be scared about either way. You're going to corroborate a story or not corroborate a story.

And why be scared? Why would he? Why would she not corroborate his story? Because she was scared. That doesn't make any fucking sense. So anyway, I mean, maybe she was saying she was scared of the police. She wanted the police to hear that she made them. Maybe they thought made her think that that's what they wanted to hear.

So she said, if I admit that I'm with him, am I now guilty of a murder? Well, I think they want to say he didn't come see you after. She's trying to say now I was probably i was scared of the police uh saying because the police if they have a theory they're not going to go now were you with him during the time of the murder they're going to go you weren't with him from there to there they're going to tell her she wasn't with them and she's going to have to argue with them to say she was okay and so it's one of those things i feel like that makes more sense makes kind of more sense where she'd be scared and go yeah i didn't see him till monday afternoon so yeah that that gives him yeah keep

me away from plenty. Yeah, exactly. That, too. So also a detective, McKinney, who will come up again. He says that Clayton Stevens, the guy who's girlfriend bought the gun for him, confirmed that he sold Roscoe's Roscoe and his girlfriend at 357 Magnum Smith and Wesson Pistol around noon of that day. Sunday. Sunday. Yes. smith and wesson pistol around noon uh that day sunday sunday yes uh so uh kentucky police detectives also talk about finding they found a a clump of blackish brown hair in jean's hand and her hand uh which was next to boswell as she ended up next to boswell because she popped out

of the bathroom they were both in the hallway uh now, Boswell's hair, along with Roscoe Garland's, is both brown, but John Garland's hair is silver. So he's got silver hair. So it ain't his fucking hair. It's not his. But Roscoe and Boswell both have brown hair and about that same length. So that's one of those things where they're like, meh, who's that? So now it's getting a little dicey.

Super interesting. Interesting. So the lab report at this point, they do comparisons between the hair found in her hand and Boswell's hair, and they find they're similar in color and microscopic characteristics. That's what they have out of that. They just have similar characteristics, which hair is extremely. It's hard to classify, hard to classify unless it's got unless you can DNA it. It's a very, very hard thing to classify. Like they say, like basically, if you have brown, like if you're me and like back in the day, they could never match a hair because it's half the fucking population has hair like that. Every Italian, every it's just brown hair brown caucasoid hair they'd say you know it's the whatever or you know

they can tell a little bit better with blonde hair apparently they can tell a little bit more because there's a characteristic shade and stuff like that that they can compare a little more whereas brown hair is just brown hair so uh yeah so they they uh the uh the prosecutors argued that the hair could have come from john garland now the thing is the jury doesn't hear about the report on the hair jury never hears it that's fucking super important information but his defense team doesn't bring it up and the prosecution doesn't bring it up because it doesn't help their case. So they say rather than say there was a report, the prosecution brings up in court that that she was found with a clump of hair in her hand. And who knows?

Might have been John's. That's all they say. Wow. So they don't say that it's actually we did a fucking lab test on it. It's definitely not his. But it actually could be either the guy who's murdered next to her or an alternate suspect in this case they don't want to that's that's not something you want to bring up no an alternate suspect if you're the prosecution so pre-trial here they excuse a juror uh stephanie caps was her name uh during the whole you know initial thing here uh she stated she

didn't believe in the death penalty and she didn't think she could consider imposing the death penalty so the prosecutor asked her if it was based upon her personal beliefs and convictions She stated she didn't believe in the death penalty and she didn't think she could consider imposing the death penalty. So the prosecutor asked her if it was based upon her personal beliefs and convictions. And she said yes. So they asked her a little more whether there might be facts as to they said, well, there ever could there ever be facts that are, quote, so horrible as to make her go against her normal feelings. What they said. And she said, quote, I don't know. I don't know.

I think that them having to sit there and suffer and live with what they've done should be enough punishment for them, is what they said. So the prosecutor continues, and he asking three more questions, which he referred to really horrible cases. Where he's like, well, what if it was a, you know, pick any one of our shit? What if it was Raymond Mata? What if it was a three-year-old and he cut his head off and put it above his thing and fed the meat to his dog and all that shit and uh finally after we could give you 10 examples of things where they go oh but i want to kill that guy i don't yeah so uh at that point she said well yeah i guess i could in that case there and uh the trial court ended up excusing her as unqualified because she wasn't ready to impose the death penalty. So that will come up later, obviously.

The law is jurors may not be disqualified simply because they expressed some disagreement with the death penalty. Even a person who initially provides a disqualifying response should not be excused if further examination shows he or she to be qualified. So they probably should have kept her, but if they had strikes left, they don't have to have a fucking reason. You can strike who you want. I don't like the look of her. I don't like the way she answered that.

I don't believe her. I don't feel like she's on my side. It doesn't matter. You can say it just doesn't fucking matter. You can't just say I don't want black people. That's about all you can't say. Or women. Or women, but they'll do that. They'll try to stack the jury with so women or women but they'll do that they'll try to stack

the jury with more women or more men depending on the case yeah you want you look at the case and they go we want this juror that's what they want her kids all women yeah they want like oj they said we want no fucking black women on that jury no black fucking women they're like go dumped his black wife for a fucking blonde waitress that he went out with and they killed they're gonna be like yeah fuck him and so they did not want black they got black women but they didn't want them that was the thing they didn't want they wanted uh they wanted marcia clark got them on there they wanted yeah they wanted black dudes on that jury who were like yeah oj's cool what are you talking about that's what they were looking

for there so uh now trial here that goes to trial uh they the court questions 59 prospective jurors and uh after which there was only 16 left who were qualified to serve on the jury who hadn't already heard about the case because it's the only thing that fucking happened here yeah so i don't know what smoke signals or you know what newspaper they found on the ground of the federal aid building i'm not sure but they figured it out also w hay must have announced it i don't know also at this point uh biggie's death is still saturating the headlines yeah they'll hear about it soon yeah it's gonna get there it happened in california it takes a while for news to get back it takes a while they have to bring it by hand

it's a little it's difficult all the wires have been... All the wires that come into town were cut in the late 60s, and they just haven't repaired them yet. No money. So after that, they realized with only that many people even qualified, and then they had to figure out which one of those were actually going to be jurors, they said, let's do it. The prosecutor moves for a change of venue, which is, to get a good jury and to to block that being an appeal thing later on that they couldn't they didn't have a jury that was impartial.

So he states, quote, The Commonwealth believes that it would be virtually impossible to get a fair and impartial trial impaneled here in this county. The defense counsel's counsel replied, Judge, in response to that, at this time, in all frankness and honesty we believe the prosecutor is probably correct i think in all honesty we would probably not be able to see the jury so they move it they move it to uh williamsburg uh uh the weird thing is uh uh the the change of venue is proper they say here's the law quickly uh there must be showing that one there's been president prejudicial news coverage two it

occurred prior to the trial and three the effect of such news coverage is reasonably likely to prevent a fair trial people have asked me that before what are the exact rules on that i've gotten tweets so there you go that's what it is so it's moved to williamsburg uh there now john garland's attorney this is what their their case is that their client was never even at the trailer you know after he was there earlier shooting shots into the ground but later when the shots went into people he wasn't there he was never there and that roscoe garland with his long criminal record is actually the murderer that is what he's saying so uh there's all sorts of shit going on here uh there's so many things that happen that don't

get really brought up in the trial but then will be brought up later on as an issue that isn't really an issue it's weird uh like hearsay shit there's a there's a jeanette uh jeanette musgrove who's jean's mother uh she gets on the stand and says that she testifies that her daughter was scared of john so later on they're going to say that's improper hearsay that which is kind of a gray area also now the defense okay yeah defense objects that the question called for an opinion of someone else's intentions and she uh and she didn't think that and so so it was a big thing. And she ended up being overruled the objection. She was allowed to go on. They said that her testimony did not include hearsay.

She did not repeat an assertion by her daughter or any nonverbal conduct or anything like that. She was just a statement of she was scared of her. Now, also, they said that her mother here, Jeanette Musgrove, was present that afternoon before the murder, Saturday afternoon, as John fired shots into the ground. This wasn't just that was that fucking day. That day. It was earlier that afternoon. That's what I mean. That was that fucking day at noon.

He left, was going to go there, and he came back. Her mother was there during that. And he didn't just come outside. Instead of having a boom box up, he fired shots into the ground. She came out of the trailer. That's when he started firing shots into the ground. He's trying to fucking scare her, obviously. He's doing like an old cowboy thing here.

Dance, bitch. Dance, yeah. So it's fucking crazy. So Jeanette Musgrove, the mother, Jean's mother, uh, testified that she observed her daughter's demeanor and reaction to the shooting incident. And, you know, testified to her observations that she seemed frightened by being fired at with a three 57 at close range. Reasonable testify. Reasonable.

You know, loud a three 57 is. I know you do. I do. They're fucking loud. If someone's firing off multiple that is frightening there is just crap the air is just yeah i mean it's alive with that shit your ears are ringing for a minute absolutely and while someone keeps firing shots and you don't know if they're gonna shoot at you like a lot of guns have a pop but a 357 is a fucking boom it's

a boom yeah it's a different big noise it's a it sounds like a fucking car backfiring more than a gun like it sounds it's got like a truck like a pow like something's built up in it there's a report back there definitely yeah uh so uh also there's another piece of hearsay here uh that they alleged hearsay that they talk about when april sexton textifies the 16 year old who was with them dancing she says she went to the dance hall with Crystal and Jean the night of the murders. She said that they circled the parking lot because they quote they were afraid that John was going to be there. That's what she said. Now, as she testified to what Jean told her, she says, quote, when we got up there before we went in, Jean says she was going to circle and she was going and she was afraid of that and then both

times uh she was uh cut off with objections and didn't get to finish so they're saying that what she said was still considered hearsay even though she never finished what she said uh so they also say that the detective mckinney's testimony was investigative hearsay, stating that he he gained information and a tip about a pistol purchased by Ross by Roscoe on the day of the murders. And they're saying that's hearsay, which that's just collecting evidence. That's that's the thing here. The objection was overruled there because, you know, that's stupid. That's just that's just stupid. Not to mention they have they had the guy clayton

stevens there to testify to say i definitely sold that yeah he's overruled and if the and if the detective is lying then if that's hearsay well then it'll be he'll be called on it when we bring the guy in to fucking testify he's here it's not like he's not available what the fuck so uh anyway detective mckinney said that clayton confirmed that he sold Roscoe at 357. Although, I guess they said that it was, like I said, technically that's hearsay, but not in terms of anything in reality. It's not. It's just silly. So, yeah.

So the detective also stated that a lab technician at Chuck Lanham. That's the lab tech. Lab tech Chuck. White coat Chuck written on it Chuck Lanham. That's the lab tech. Yeah. Lab tech Chuck. Okay. White coat Chuck written on it. Lanham. Lanham. He told McKinney that the bullets taken from the victims were not fired from the weapon

purchased from Clayton Stevens, which obviously they bought it the next fucking day. So that went on. I don't know why that was a big deal. And also, the Lanham never ended up testifying. He had a recent lung transplant, the lab tech. So he couldn't testify and finish working on the case. And the firearm and tool mark examiner was a guy named Dwight Deskins. He reviewed and reworked everything and testified as an expert witness.

So they were kind of working on that. They were saying, well, since Lanham isn't going to be here to testify, then the detective can't testify to what the lab tech told him. And they're saying, look, don't look at the lab tech as a human being. Look at him as a position of lab tech. And if that lab tech is gone, there's another lab tech. Either way, lab tech will testify. Doesn't matter which fucking one. And if this lab tech agrees

with that lab tech, who gives a fuck? Yeah, exactly. It's so fucking stupid. You can present the information. And they said also, the new lab tech is available for cross-examination.

So if you have any fucking questions about it, there he is. Knock yourself out. Otherwise, eat dicks. Kentucky exclamation point, pow pow. So that's how that goes here uh also the uh the prior shooting incidents were let in and they're calling that prior bad acts when it seems like really that's just a lead up yeah to the thing here uh because they wanted

to be prior bad acts the defense does because that's less admissible than just hey this asshole did did a similar thing earlier in the day uh to the same person here uh because uh this is also why you call the police anytime that this shit happens because then if something escalates and something else happens it's on the record you got it on fucking see this is what happened there it is yeah so jeanette musgrove the mother she testifies at the day of the crimes uh she went uh gene went into her her trailer to get some clothes for her children yes gene has kids also uh for her children and that's when john uh started shooting at gene or shooting at the ground around gene apparently john lived just up the hill and another one was uh another bad act that was admitted during the trial was Gary Roberts testified that when he uh he said

that the weekend before the murders he went to dance with Jean and upon their this is amazing he said last weekend I went out with Jean to go dancing we got back to her trailer and as we were going into the trailer John was firing shots from his house at us. Unreal. Just firing shots down the hill at us, just in our general direction. Defense counsel objected, and this is amazing, and it was sustained on grounds that Roberts wasn't qualified as an expert to say which directions the shots came from. Unbelievable. You just heard shots.

You don't know where they came from. They could have came from anywhere, right? You don't know which way they're going. You don't know. He could be firing away from you. Sound is crazy, too. Yeah, it echoes. You could think it's coming from there. It's have came from anywhere, right? You don't know which way they're going. You don't know. He could be firing away from you. Sound is crazy, too. Yeah, it echoes. You could think it's coming from there.

It's actually coming from there, right? Are you an expert on sound bouncing? No. Ask anybody that was in Dealey Plaza. Yeah, exactly. Clever defense there, actually, though, to say, to not even worry about hearsay or this or that. Just go, are you an expert on that? No.

That's right uh now uh also the court he's saying that the court uh refuses to allow his ex-wife to uh testify yeah uh basically they they refuse to allow his ex-wife to testify to impeach his credibility uh she testified earlier in a hearing that roscoe, as far as she knew, never told the truth and that he lies to her all the time. Is she an expert on that? I don't know. She's an expert on his lying, probably, being his ex-wife.

She says that they were talking about this. Basically, this is character evidence, and it's only supposed to go to his general reputation in the community and uh her testimony went to say it was about an individual experience rather than general general reputation and that's what it's supposed to be so there's no error you can't just say i hear he's kind of an asshole you have to go he's an asshole because he did this this and this to me or i know of instances that's how character testimony works and an ex-wife is a perfect person to get to make against you yeah you will you will look like a dickhead every time no

one wants their ex anything testifying about them at all just they're gonna say everything the worst they know it all uh polygraph also uh testimony that he had taken a polygraph test which he did and he failed john uh was erroneously admitted. It wasn't admitted. They didn't admit the results of the polygraph, but it was revealed during the testimony of John's brother-in-law, who is his ex-wife's brother. He said that John came to visit three or four days after the murders, and he quote right after he had come from london from having polygraph tests done and which is what the cops talked to him at first and they ended up letting him go uh now uh that's when they cut him off they never said whether he passed failed

anything like that and also his ex-wife again testifying saying uh that he came to her sister's house on the monday after the murders and when she said that she said quote when he came to her sister's house on the Monday after the murders. And when she said that, she said, quote, when he had to go for a polygraph test. So it was mentioned twice. And they said, since it's inadmissible, those references should make a mistrial. And they said, no, those were inadvertent references and never said whether you passed or failed. So fuck off. You don't get a mistrial for that.

Even the second mention of it, though, the state objected to it and said that the trial said whether you passed or failed so fuck off you don't get a mistrial for that uh the even the second mention of it though the state objected to it and said that the trial court you please tell the witness not to say the word polygraph no one say polygraph for the love of they don't it's not real it's not don't junk science junk which you know you can beat the box so uh yeah they said the mere utterance of the word without a prejudicial inference as to the result is not grounds for reversal so fuck off uh so john testifies he's gotta yeah he's only as only because he's got there's a witness his son saying i watched him do it so he's got to come up and be more credible than his son uh now his he presents an

alibi as his defense uh his side of the story is he didn't do it he testifies he said i wasn't at the trailer at the time of the murder of the murder i have no motive for killing these people at all uh he says it was his son that was that did it and it was his son that's lying not him he's like i'm telling the truth my son's a liar look at his record yeah uh he's an awful person. Don't listen to my ex-wife. Don't listen to my ex-wife. We all have one, you know, wink, wink. You know what I'm saying?

Come on, guys. But, you know, he's saying it's my son. Look at his record. He sucks. He's in prison constantly and blah, blah, blah. But the testimony he says, he said he's seeking complete exoneration. He says that, you know just he was not there this is ridiculous you know i mean as a strategy it's either you say i lost my mind i want mercy or

you go i wasn't even there right you have no other choice you really don't what do you say there's no other i mean there's no at least he's got a plausible explanation and he even has a plausible like oj was just like i don't know col Colombian drug dealers did it like he had no other alternative this guy's like my son it was his gun and he's saying he was there so it makes sense you know I mean it's at least plausible so he denies denies denies defense counsel

there could all they could focus on was weakness of the prosecution's case they picked on Roscoe a lot for self-serving testimony is what they said and uh hope that that was enough for reasonable doubt obviously to get an acquittal uh now they could have pursued extreme emotional disturbance like we said uh but that would be uh that means you have to say you did it minutes of guilt we have to say like i did it because of this but you said you did it so that's

kind of difficult there so uh roscoe jr though they really went after his credibility as a witness that was their main thing here because uh still pending against him are three counts of his criminal facilitation to commit murder that's still in the air and also while he's testifying he's brought from prison to court and back young roscoe because he's serving a term for aggravated robbery in tennessee oh boy so when you look at that you go uh aggravated robbery in Tennessee. Oh, boy. So when you look at that, you go, aggravated robbery, that's the next step down from shooting a motherfucker and going, well, let's not make, they shouldn't be alive to tell them who did it, should they? That's to me.

So, I mean, who knows? That's the next logical elevation. That seems like a little bit of doubt anyway there. Now, on defense's cross-examination uh roscoe denied any deal with the prosecution but he revealed his hope of lenient treatment and in cooper and uh exchange for cooperation the tennessee trial this no and this one because the three counts of facilitating a murder so he's hoping this he's saying i have no deal they have no sway with tennessee uh and so especially aggravated robbery we're like oh no oh, no, we're keeping him.

We got him for now. He can stick around here if he doesn't get in that. Yeah, exactly. So, he said, Roscoe testified to all of this, and we'll find out what Roscoe's deal actually was afterwards. Because he did have a deal in place. He lied about it on the stand, and the prosecution didn't fucking say a fucking word. They didn't say, well, hold on, Roscoee uh well because it's not in writing yet it's a verbal agreement so technically it's not that's what they do in cases prosecution when they get

people to testify they don't they don't they have the the evidence they have it hanging over them they don't need to charge them they don't need to fucking do it right now they can wait like as long as they feel like so get them to testify and if your testimony is what you say it is and if it's right then we can fucking make the deal with you and that makes it so you can say you have no deal in place which is and and that if that trial uh hinges on your testimony and your testimony puts that person away now we can talk now we can talk well yeah it's just it's and also it's mainly so when a defense attorney says, what's the prosecution giving you for this? You can go nothing.

I don't have any deal in place. You do. And the second that fucking gavel hits your deals, you're going to sign that deal. It's in place. But for now, you don't. Now, prosecutor in the opening and closing prosecutor made improper comments is what John says later on during opening statements and closing arguments there. He referred to something that the prosecutor looked to, referred to something that looked to Detective McKinney

like a bloody footprint on Jean's panties after she was killed and argued that John had kicked her after he shot her. Like while he walked by, he like kicked her too or something. Yeah, kicked her in the junk there or wherever in the ass or something we didn't say if it was on the front or back so the prosecutor also made comments about the death penalty because this is a death penalty case by the way yeah obviously uh saying that uh he said quote uh this country our forefathers our ancestors have always believed that under certain circumstances, the death penalty was an appropriate penalty because our society values life and puts a very high priority on the sanctity of life. So they said when he tried to object to this, they told him that the opening and closing statements aren't evidence and council has a

wide berth basically a lot of latitude you can basically say anything you want in an opening and a closing doesn't have to be based in evidence doesn't have to be based in fact which can be very powerful yeah for a prosecutor to be able to say shit that's not true to a jury right before they go in to decide that's crazy like that that that should have to be factual at least from the prosecutor's end should be changed yeah uh so january 1999 uh here this is the the verdict's going to come down the jury is deliberating uh they're deliberating for about two hours uh when the jury uh gave the bailiff a note requesting the answers to five questions they are can they be run concurrently and or one after the other as far as sentences go?

Because he's charged with three counts of murder. With life without parole, will he ever get out of jail? With death, how long would it be before he would be put to death? Four, how many times can he appeal this case? And five, is there any way we can keep him in jail until death without the death penalty? So these are the five questions they're asking. Apart from one of those questions, and it's number four there. Yeah. Apart from number four, have any of these people heard of the legal process? That's what I mean at all. Like all of those, all of those questions have open ends and all of them are none of their concern either.

They're supposed to decide a case and they're not supposed to sit and go, well, if this happens or we do that, like that's not what it is. So the jury hands a note to the juror, gives it to the bailiff and says that they don't want to be brought back into the courtroom. That's not what they're saying. We just want our shit answered. So after reviewing the questions with the counsel, the judge said that none of the questions could be addressed and just wrote on the note, quote,

can't answer, just follow the instructions. Just fucking say whether he shot her or not and whether you want to kill him or not. That's all we want out of you. Enough. So the jury later sent another note to the judge. They get instructed.

They don't just say, all right, trial's over. You guys go fuck around in there and just come out with something. They do a full thing of instruction. It's really, really thorough. And you got a packet of shit. You got everything. The jury sends another note to the judge asking whether the verdict had to be unanimous.

And the judge went, yes, that's what I fucking told you. He sent back a note like, are we kidding? Did you pay attention any can anyone here fucking read or focus what is going on in this town check yes or no for the love of yeah something so finally somehow they they get a verdict i don't know how they did it how they could possibly mount a verdict with this type of thing in front of them but they do and it comes back guilty on all three counts guilty murder murder murder uh that's a lot of murder there uh so finally the next month february 19th 1999 is sentencing and uh the jury they don't take too long they ask a few questions again but they end up uh they end up coming back and you sir they fuck off he gets the death penalty three times

over just in case there's two backups to that one oh this is so not right three deaths yeah this is a little bit bad one like we he probably did it and probably shot it but there's enough gray area to go let's just keep him in a cell yeah just in case something

came up for a bit just in case let's hang on to him for a bit okay i like that so he appeals obviously it's a death penalty case he has 39 points of appeal yeah i've never seen 39 points of appeal uh most i've ever seen on this show i mean i'm sure there's lawyers out there 24 right something like that and that was like jesus christ normally it's like six and that's what he thought was like a dude that for sure did it yeah it was ridiculous yeah it was a lot third i'm sure there's lawyers out there going i've had a case with 150 it doesn't matter but 39 points of appeal you're just it's everything you're saying that nothing happened right and i'm not going to go through 39 fucking points of appeal because we'll be here all goddamn night and that's just not happening

so we'll hit the we'll hit the the highlights here on his 14th claim uh here uh he says that the instructions presented capital reliable capital sentencing he says that he describes 12 separate alleged improprieties in the penalty phase instructions alone he maintains that the trial court erroneously failed to instruct the jury on the extreme emotional disturbance statutory mitigator. So that's a problem there. They should have known that if they thought Chris Boswell making him snap was an actual thing that they could use as a mitigator to not kill him. So he's saying that. He said this mitigating factor may be considered even though the evidence is insufficient to constitute a defense of the crime.

They can consider it as a mitigator and also not mentioning EED, which is extreme emotional disturbance in the instructions allowed in mitigation. He says that the crime basically doesn't allow that the crime was impulsive and based on instant passion, that the defendant was in love with the victim and acted in an instance of crazed jealousy because that's what they want to be an option basically uh uh so uh yeah they said there was no error because he didn't he didn't want it phrased that way anyway so how are you going to complain about something you said you didn't want so the also another one here on the 10th claim is the tape the audio cassette uh at trial, the prosecution played that audio cassette from a month before that, where on the tape, he says that Gene was pregnant. They talk about that and that he loved the baby, even though Gary Roberts was the father. And then Gary Roberts testified that he dated Gene for four or five months, knocked her up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So that all went on here. They play the audio cassette like we know. So they're saying that the prosecutor presented this. They're saying it was knowingly presenting false evidence because the prosecutor knew that Jean wasn't pregnant. But that's irrelevant because he thought she was pregnant. Yeah, none of that matters. The reality of it doesn't matter. It irrelevant because he thought she was pregnant yeah that none of that matters the reality of it doesn't matter it's what he thought so they say the relevant factor is whether or not not whether gene was pregnant or not but whether but john's belief regarding her pregnancy

and its possible influence on his behavior which is all it is uh the audio cassette of his voice reveals his belief that he was pregnant and that he was not the father. So that gives you a goes to his state of mind and it's relevant and there's no error. So those are the main ones. Otherwise, I mean, it was little things. Death penalty is unconstitutional. Not that that's a little thing, but that's one of those that they just go, that's not a fucking thing.

That's the thing that you throw in anyway. Little things. You know, an I not dotted, a T not crossed over here and they were like, yeah, that's not, that constitute you know enough error to make it matter so uh it's uh october of 2003 uh all three murder convictions are upheld and all three death sentences are upheld uh there and uh there's that there is a dissenting opinion to this appeal though yeah this is not a unanimous decision from this panel here. Do you have it written?

I do, indeed. I have one here. Quote, I respectfully dissent from the majority opinion and vote to reverse appellant's convictions and remand this indictment to the McCreary County Circuit Court for a new trial. In my view, the appellant was substantially prejudiced by the erroneous submission of one, April Sexton's irrelevant testimony as to Jean Ferrier and Crystal Conister's fear of the appellant. Both Jeanette Musgrove, that's Jean's mom, and Gary Roberts testimony to uncharged, uncharged prior bad acts. He wasn't convicted of those bad acts. They were just witnessed.

Uncharged prior bad acts. Specifically, previous occasions upon which the appellant allegedly discharge discharge firearms in gene's direction which the commonwealth introduced in violation of a trial court order prohibiting it from introducing such evidence because they've not provided the reasonable pre-trial notice so they knew they weren't supposed to introduce that and it got introduced this so isn't even an opinion this is just fucking facts this is facts this is the judge saying but they're he's stating facts and the other judges are saying that's not enough though that's not enough to be material doesn't matter and this judge is saying actually i think that's reversible because of this shit don't ever

get convicted of murder uh no it's bad additionally although i agree with the majority's bottom line conclusion that the inadmissible investigative hearsay that was erroneously introduced during Detective McKinney's testimony was harmless in this case. I write separately as to that allegation of error to caution the bench and bar to avoid the introduction of such hearsay evidence in future cases. So this is like it's a it's a all that makes perfect sense. That's a very reasonable opinion that's saying, I think we should dump this and I think we should retry this guy without the bullshit. And I think you're still going to get the conviction. Who cares? Basically. Also, he has a little DNA thing cooking here.

After his convictions were affirmed, he files a motion to the circuit court to obtain dna testing and analysis of some evidentiary items here uh now uh what he wants this is this is interesting here uh now he does have the right to obtain this he moved to uh uh for analysis of the hair recovered from gene farrier's left hand hair found on a broken farrier fingernail and some other things like that the fingernail thing is the big deal uh now this is going on through 2004 where he is the oldest person on kentucky's death row how old is it 62 oh jesus 62 oldest guy on death row in kentucky right i guess you don't live very long on death row no you don't uh 2008 uh here he uh he uh he specifically requests dna this is five years go by nothing happens with that 2008 he specifically requests dna testing of the clump

of hair in her hand and possible hair under the fingernail uh first motion uh uh also he has a he adds all the additional items as well uh he now limits his argument though to two items only uh one uh uh one is uh well let's well read the thing here says therefore we need not address the testing of the other items listed in the appellant's first motion and will now consider whether the trial court erred in denying his motion for dna testing of the hair specimens because they denied him the first time. So he's still denied, though, here in 2008, additional DNA testing. 2011, he has another DNA hearing here at this hearing.

The court is informed that the two items argued in the other appeal, the clump of hair from the hand and possible hair under the fingernail, had been subjected to DNA testing. They have been. The analysis showed the clump of hair came from chris boswell one of the other murder victims like she fell down and just grasped it or grabbed at it or was trying to grab it something who knows that's where that came from maybe she wasn't even dead and she was trying to wake him up or some shit you never know she was grasping for less she might have just been who knows what the hell people as they're dying uh the result of the hair found in her broken fingernail showed that one strand of hair came from Jean herself.

And then another came from Chris Boswell. The origin of a third strand of hair was indeterminable and was perhaps not even human hair. So it might've been animal or some sort of whatever. None of these discoveries exculpated John. None of these things clear him of anything. It's just saying that it's not his hair, which that doesn't mean he didn't shoot him. That means that she grabbed Chris Boswell's hair.

That doesn't mean shit. A victim. Yeah. And he didn't shoot himself. And he didn't. Exactly. This hearing also revealed that Gene Ferrier's fingernail clippings were not subjected to DNA testing because they'd been discarded 14 years earlier, despite the destruction of evidence obviously uh state police officers who were at this point retired uh testified regarding their knowledge of the whole thing the evidence

was presented at the hearing showing that police investigating the crimes used a rape kit to collect potential evidence nothing related to the rape kit was introduced into evidence at the trial and no sexual crimes were alleged in connection with the shootings. That's just the only thing they had to use to test shit. Now, John never requested to have the rape kit items tested for DNA. The destruction form was signed by the two detectives, but both officers denied signing the destruction form to destroy the fingernail evidence. They both denied it. They both said two fucking retired cops said that someone else had forged their signatures on the form those aren't even their signatures not only did i not sign that

that isn't even my fucking signature someone forged my signature and destroyed the fingernail evidence which is just whatever that if you're a defendant even if you're totally guilty you're going that looks great for me right like there shouldn't be forgeries and destruction of evidence that needs to be kept under order from a judge. Sure. So, yeah, that's crazy. So John argued that the forgery, otherwise unconnected to the fingernail evidence, indicated bad faith in destruction of the fingernail clippings. Indicated they did it on purpose because maybe they thought it was exculpatory and they didn't want to have it.

They did it on purpose because maybe they thought it was exculpatory and they didn't want to have it. Now, the one sergeant, bigger staff, couldn't recall the specifics of the Garland case. How do you not recall this? How do you not remember that? How many triple murders are in your fucking county? Not only that. Okay, we've covered 119 now murders in great detail. If you bring up something, I'll give you a few facts out of it, I remember.

And these are bad ones. I bet he didn't cover 120 murders. That's my point. And I bet you even more. I bet you he saw them dead and saw way grosser shit that would stick in your mind than I do reading court documents. How do you not remember that? I don't know. Yeah, it's fucking crazy.

He doesn't recall the specific of the case. Testified that someone other than himself signed off on the paperwork. Detective Meadows testified the paperwork included a signature purporting to be his, but recalled both he and Biggerstaff being present when the evidence was destroyed, which is... Oh, that's not good. No. But he says he didn't sign it,

though. He theorized that a filing clerk may have noticed the officers had failed to sign one of the documents and just did it for him as like a standard office thing. Like, oh, they want this destroyed. They put it in the destroy pile, but they forgot to sign it. I better just zip a fucking zip a little fucking John Hancock on there for him, which you can't do.

You can't do that. What a what a dipshit. Yeah. File clerks fired to Jesus. This was this was one of the only people in town with a fucking job. Yeah. Should be a job opening right about now. Yeah, no shit.

Everybody lined up outside. The judge ordered the evidence to be preserved right after he was indicted in 1997. This was immediately, I want nothing to be fucking destroyed. And it was. So they asked, obviously, the police if it was policy to destroy evidence without a court order. And as a matter of fact, against a specific court order. And they said that they they testified in such an order would only be sought if the evidence hadn't actually had actually been used at trial. But they said it doesn't matter. They go back and forth on this.

It doesn't matter. They go back and forth on this. They argue back and forth about this whole thing that neither the defense nor the prosecution chose to put the DNA evidence in front of the scientific evidence in front of the jury, which is weird. Seems like the... Why even do it? Yeah, I don't know. You see brown hair if I'm the defense attorney.

I'm going, fuck, I'm telling the jury about that. That's evidence number one. Ain't my guy. See his head? I'm just saying. I mean, that's enough about that. That's evidence number one. Ain't my guy. See his head? I'm just saying. I mean, that's enough to get in people's heads more than anything else. They need that little bit of doubt. It's got a doubt enough for me right now.

I feel terrible for this man. Yeah, it's crazy. He may have done it, and I feel terrible for him. Oh, I think he definitely did it, but I do still feel bad. But his attorney here argued that his conviction should be vacated in favor of a new trial because of the bad faith in the preservation or lack of preservation of evidence. The judge disagrees. The judge says, quote, this this court finds that there was no willful, malicious or duplicitous motive motive to defeat or impair in any way the defendants due process rights.

He said the defense also failed to prove that the evidence that was destroyed had exculpatory value, because that's part of it, too. He said, quote, this court cannot speculate as to whose DNA may have been on the fingernail clippings or what that might mean.

Indeed, such evidence could have easily aided the Commonwealth as the defendant. But it could have not. I don't like that statement. They can't speculate. Well, you don't speculate. That's why you needed to test it scientifically. So there's no fucking speculation.

Right. But they destroyed it. So how the fuck do you test it scientifically? You dumb fuck. Why don't they just do that with everything? Then the cops could just destroy everything. I don't think it was malicious. I mean, there was forged signatures and shit, but that's not malicious.

And, you know, who fucking cares anyway? It's only the death penalty. It's the fucking week air. We're going to who can speculate, really? What the fuck are we doing here? It could have helped the state as well as him. Who knows? Well, yeah.

Who does know? That's the point. Nobody. Because of them. Because of the state. If he destroyed it himself, then it's on him. But it's the state. So the judge also cites the Supreme Kentucky Supreme Court in overruling the motion,

stating that the statute was not intended for speculating about innocence. He says in making this claim, the appellant ignores the fact that he had already been convicted at a fair trial, which has been affirmed by this court. While the system is admittedly imperfect, which is why certain statute exists in the first place, that fact does not require reversal of a conviction after the fact simply because appellate cannot imagine or can imagine a scenario in which he may be shown to be an innocent. Well, that would be true, except if you have physical evidence that was destroyed against the fucking judge's order. That's different than just him imagining the scenario where he could possibly be innocent the supreme court sucks too this is yeah it's fucking kentucky man kentucky supreme court made up of it's goddamn crazy so he's 71 years old at

this point too i mean you're sitting in there jesus christ he's been on death row for fucking 14 years uh yeah he is uh just trying to get the dna evidence and uh they talk about this now uh they said that he just keeps talking about how he just wants shit to be tested that's all he wants he wants the the things to be tested even though he knows that it won't be because it's destroyed now as he leaves court here uh in 2011 he falls down he falls leaving court and he's cuffed and all that shit so he's got but he does fall now uh november 2012 he files a lawsuit against them a civil suit against mccreary county fiscal court uh unknown employees and the kentucky association

of counties uh which is the insurer of the of these He says that they're liable for a fall he suffered at leaving a court hearing last time, claiming problems with his hearing, vision, breathing, and mobility. He alleged that he was required to negotiate the stairs to enter and leave the second floor courtroom and that the defendants failed to, quote, that's the state state the state failed to quote trained employees in the proper handling of disabled persons because he's 70 uh now he says

uh he's representing himself in this case uh because you can't get a public defender for this he's seeking 10 million dollars for quote pain suffering permanent injury future impairment loss of enjoyment of his major daily life and activities you're on death row dude uh and unspecified punitive damages uh is what he's suing for which is 10 million dollars 10 million dollars which you could buy every piece of real estate in this fucking town for that much money literally you could own the town uh so uh they end up uh this ends up being dismissed here uh the judge rules that garland failed to show that he was discriminated against by uh by uh since he didn't attend well he apparently he he attended the hearing without incident before so they're saying that you know you can get in and out so you weren't discriminated against.

You didn't need special help, is what they're telling him here. And also the Americans with Disabilities Act doesn't allow for public employees to be sued in an individual capacity. So you can't sue like employee A and employee B. You have to sue the whole entity there. And it says

quote, because Garland is an inmate, courthouse personnel had legitimate security and safety reasons to deny his request to use the elevator. That's what they're saying. They discriminated against him by not letting him use the elevator, even though he's disabled, which he's in his 70s. It's a good point. Making a fucking shackled guy go upstairs was in the 70s.

I was just wondering about like a ramp or something. But if there's an elevator, maybe they said security reasons and quote. And garland has not alleged that he was denied access to the elevator or courtroom because of his disability uh which is no he's just saying you denied me you said it was for security so because they didn't tell him it was because of his disability then it's not discrimination against his disability even though that's it was just they didn't do it they didn't care so they would have said it'll be funny it's it, it would be funny to watch you try to crawl up those stairs. That's the only way that it would have been that, even though that's ridiculous because obviously no one's going to do that out in the open.

So, yeah, the judge here was pleased with the ruling that he made, and he says, quote, the courthouse is ADA compliant, which is Americans with Disability Act, if you're from another country. Quote, we do everything we can to keep the facility up to date and functional so we're perfect fuck you may 2013 there's another dna hearing here uh where garland and some of his family are here learn the evidence not used in this trial uh this is they talk about the destroyed evidence uh he is uh you know they. This is another one of those. It's an evidentiary hearing.

As he is brought out of the court, he yells, quote, I never killed nobody. And that's what he yells as they tucked him into the car. Exclamation point. His family. They have a gun to make they can talk on. Well, yeah. He couldn't do it. He couldn't say it. And they closed the door. He paused for yeah, he couldn't do it. He couldn't say it.

And they closed the door. He paused for the fuck and they closed the door. He's like, shit. He's like, can somebody fire a round off into the ground? I want to emphasize, just one pop, just one shot. It's fine. You can do two if you want, but one is fine. So his family members were all there. They said here, this is his sister Beverly says, quote, they destroyed that evidence because they knew it wouldn't link him to the killing.

So she says that the evidence is needed to exonerate her brother. And she says that there's still some evidence out there. And that's why he and that's why they're all still fighting. She says, quote, it's been a cover up since day one. So this is some backwoods Kentucky conspiracy shit going on here. So his sister Brenda, or I'm sorry, Crystal Conister's sister Brenda was one of the first people out of the courtroom. They asked her how she feels about the whole thing.

She said, quote, it hurts. I hate to see my mother go through this. She says we deal with the loss every day. said, quote, it hurts. I hate to see my mother go through this. Uh, uh, she says we deal with the loss every day. Uh, so she's just saying that, uh, she says,

quote, he's been tried and convicted of three murders in the end. He's guilty. And then she leaves. So that's, that's how that works. Uh, February of 2015,

Garland concedes that the fingernail clippings, uh, had no known exculpatory value when they were destroyed he contends however that the analysis of biological material if any which may have been found in the fingernail clippings had the potential of exculpatory uh value and the court agrees with him here uh they said throughout the trial he maintained that his son uh committed the murders roscoe testified he denied committing the murders. He testified in great detail about how his father shot and killed all three victims.

They found Roscoe's DNA. They're saying that if they found Roscoe's DNA on in Jean's fingernail clippings, it would suggest that he was involved with the struggle and not him, as he claims, not John, as they claim. and not him as he claims not john as they claim and also that roscoe wasn't a passive witness that he was a participant in this murder and uh that they were just giving him a lower charge to set up the father that's the what the defense is trying to say uh he said anyone involved in the trial the police officers defense council were aware of competing claims they could have surmised potential evidentiary value that might arise from the analysis of fingernail clippings. They said that Garland satisfies the second and third prongs of the test, which is this test to see if something is admittable here.

They're saying the court found that officers Biggerstaff and Meadows did not act in bad faith when they destroyed the fingernail clippings, and that finding is supported by other evidence. The evidence clearly shows that the officers disposed of the material in accordance with routine protocol for handling evidence that was not introduced at trial basically they're saying they didn't pay attention to the order to not destroy this evidence because it's standard procedure that shit that's not used at trial you toss it okay which is fucking crazy that's a terrible policy to have keep it all

always keep anything that might have anything because we don't know they they keep in the 70s they kept like samples of shit that they didn't know they couldn't do anything with it at the time they couldn't test it but they kept it and then later on it was dna tested even though they didn't even know dna would exist they said maybe someday something will be able to be done with this and that's the phrase that should be said with everything with everything we don't know so we could come up we had no idea about dna i mean mad that was like a holy shit like that something new like that could happen we didn't know here should be like the lost ark and just stowed in a giant goddamn uh storage unit and and as that gets big full find a bigger one find a bigger one yeah fuck it this

is something we should all be willing to pay for so uh this is february 2015 uh they say that garland fails to satisfy the most the first and most crucial prong of this test which is bad faith on the part of the government trial court found that the officers did not act in bad faith when they destroyed fingernail clippings, and that finding is supported. So that's the issue here. They say that it was reasonable for the officers to assume that after the trial, if neither the prosecution nor the defense had any use for an item, that there was no reason to keep it.

The trial court also noted that an order to preserve evidence was entered two years prior to the trial and was never conveyed to the officers so they were saying that the chain was fine anyway uh so basically they uh they say notice to the prosecution the defense council and the trial court seem like prudent steps to take in a death penalty case when the post trial destruction of such evidence is contemplated what they're saying is look in the future to avoid this why don't you why don't we make a fucking rule that when evidence like this is going to be destroyed, we let the councils know. We send a letter out saying, hey, this evidence is set to be destroyed in six months. So if you want it, put a fucking put a hold on it.

Yeah. File a piece of paper and we won't fucking destroy it. But otherwise, it's getting destroyed. So just to let you know, which is a great idea it's a great rule that's a great rule uh uh yeah they say sufficient evidence was presented to induce conviction in the mind of a reasonable person that the fingernail clippings were discarded

as a matter of routine accordingly we are not at liberty to disturb the trial court's factual finding on this issue keep fucking off uh sends him back they're still on death row, and then April 22nd, 2018, he dies.

Of course. Dies at age 75, and that's that. Dies on death row in Kentucky. Or in a hospital there, the death row hospital. Wherever they take you to die. Wherever they take,

wherever the fucking death house is there where they don't actually kill you. But that's it. He dies in prison uh we never really bastard i mean we never i mean i'm pretty sure he shot all three of those people yeah which sucks but i don't like the way it happened that really sucks i don't like that trial i don't like the only evidence that's real evidence against him being uh an accomplice who knew exactly where the murder weapon was and also that murder weapon

belonged to and with plenty of reason to say that yeah it's his dad that's what i mean like i get that you have to have accomplice testimony to get it but that's it's and they say that it's corroborated because he knew where the weapon was but to me that also uncorroborates it as well because that also says you know where the weapon was Who's to say you didn't hide it there? Why do we believe you and not him? The part that makes me believe the dad, though, at least a little bit, is that even when they gave all the evidence of we know this, we all know that we know all of this because your son told us. He goes, I didn't. Well, look at him then.

Yeah. Don't look at me. Look at him. Stuck with that the whole time through and the fact that his son is in jail for aggravated robbery and has a super long criminal record all of these things make him look but then again you go fucking two o'clock that afternoon he was firing shots into the ground in front of this woman so he probably did this and he would do that in front of that girl in front of her mom that's what i mean in broad fucking daylight in front of not only the whole neighborhood but her mother standing there and her kids are in the house her kids were in

the fucking house when this was going on that shows some crazy like opportunity to be guilty yeah but also opportunity for recreation and murder i'm gonna call this episode opportunity for murder it also shows to me that uh maybe he's just crazy enough to do shit like that but he wouldn't fucking murder if he was gonna murder maybe he would have done that that's who knows but it's at least worth looking into so i'm getting that and you'd like to have all the evidence there and uh this case sucks yeah and i'd love to hook his son up i'd love to hook his son's balls up to a car battery and ask him some fucking questions and find out exactly what happened really quickly because i want to fucking know uh where that little asshole is that's what

i mean but uh either way who knows that is uh that is uh that is uh whitley city kentucky i was gonna say fleming neon that was the first one we did it was in my head uh whitley city kentucky and that is uh john roscoe garland and uh Gene and Crystal and poor Chris Boswell too. He had nothing to do with this at all. He's just like, I met some chick. This is great. Going back to the trailer.

Hey, what's going on out here? Holy fuck. Who was that? I got shot a bunch. This is ridiculous. So that's the unluckiest guy in the whole world. That guy there.

He thought he was the luckiest guy on earth. Turns out he's not. In an hour's time, he went from the luckiest guy in the world to the unluckiest fucking guy in the world in an hour that never happens it never happens that would be like winning the lottery and being sued for killing a baby in the same day in public like it's shit damn it never mind fuck i almost had it made so jesus christ that's that uh if you like the show lots you can do to tell us about it and help out Never mind. Fuck. I almost had it made. Almost had it made. So, Jesus Christ. That's that.

If you like the show, lots you can do to tell us about it and help out the show. First of all, you can go to iTunes, Apple Podcasts, whatever that purple icon is. Go there. That helps a lot. You can give us five stars. Tell us you're following instructions or directions. It doesn't matter. It's not for our ego.

It's really just to drive us up the charts. And that really does help us a lot on the business end. Also, if you want to contact us on social media, and this is going to be important for tickets because you want to you want to the social media is important for the tickets because a lot of times if they sell out or if one's low or something like that, you'll know we'll tell you through social media. So do that. Follow us. It is at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook and on at Small Town Murder on Instagram. And so check on there for everything, for updates. Also, if you want to buy tickets today, Thursday, the day the show comes out,

May the 16th, you can do that with all of the tickets. Presale can be bought with the code GrimKaren. What they do with presale, just to an explain that explanation it's usually like 50 or 100 tickets they put up for pre-sale so if you see if you go to buy pre-sale tickets and they're sold out the show's not sold out there's like 50 tickets 100 tickets that are gone I don't know why they do that the pre-sale I really don't it's not us we don't we don't say let's put a couple on sale early and that we don't do that wouldn't it be hilarious yeah it's I think it's yeah I think it's something to do with gauging the way sales go.

They have a certain formula with if they sell this much in this time. Who the fuck knows? But tomorrow, or if you're listening on Friday, today, or any time past that, last Friday. They're on sale. They're on sale. Tickets to all of these live shows are on sale. A huge slate on there. You can go through them all, but Jesus Christ, we couldn't.

They're up there. They're up there. Where are they, Ted? There's a lot of them. Shut up and give me murder.com. That's where. That's right. Where you can also get all your merchandise to wear to these damn live shows.

And also, listen to Crime and Sports as well there. You can do all of that there. And these tickets, we're excited about this tour. These venues are nice uh no shitty dumpy venues not that we did last time we did pretty well too but uh no dumpy venues no crappy places this is going to be a really good time we want to sit you somewhere nice and tell you something terrible and that's right and we have to say too a lot of the cities people are like how come you're not here how come you're not there because we're not when a comic tours they

tour 40 weeks a year we can't tour 40 weeks a year you would not have these shows if we toured 40 weeks a year you just wouldn't it takes up too much time podcasts would stop so we can do about 20 that's about how much time we have we have families we have shows we have a lot of shit going on so uh that's about how much time we have and in one year we can only hit 20 cities it's it's not a lot of markets. You think it's a lot, but it fills up quick. And then you end up with places that you're not going that we'd like to go. And that's like Des Moines.

We wanted to go to Des Moines. We said we were going to Des Moines. Des Moines was on the schedule, but a conflict came up. It just came up. And where we couldn't do that day, we had to do the next day or the day before, whatever it was. And we couldn't because of a conflict that we had. So had to take omaha instead which is great we're happy to go there there has to be like four everything has to line up it has to be uh the venue has to be right because we don't want to put you guys in a shit venue that has to be available then it has

to be available and then we have to be available not only from the show but from other live shows and from our regular lives and then on top of that they have to be available not only from the show, but from other live shows and from our regular lives. And then on top of that, they have to be willing to work with the ticket prices and all that because we're not going to sell super expensive tickets. Then it has to work in our routing. Suppose we're in Seattle that weekend and this is in Atlanta. Well, we can't fucking do that, obviously. So that's going to be difficult. So all of these things have to line up perfectly for us to book a show.

And somehow we got a whole bunch of dates to line up. Yeah, so it really is a lot of work that goes into that. So if a date like Des Moines falls through, maybe three of the four things were perfect and that fourth thing didn't just quite line up. So that's the reason why. It's not because we don't like you guys. And other dates, too. Other cities we've been to that we love, we're fucking coming there.

This is through the end of this calendar year. There's going to be more dates after that. We're tacking them on. We're looking at Salt Lake City, Denver. We got Portland. What do you think? We're not going to come back

to fucking Portland? Seattle. We're going to go back there. We were just in Seattle. Boston. New York. We love you guys. Boston.

New York. We've been there. Boston's been the best to us. We'll definitely be there. Portland. You guys, both shows, we've been there. We did two different places.

The second venue was twice the size as the first. They both sold out immediately. So that's how much be there portland you guys both shows we've been there we did two different places one venue the second venue was twice the size as the first they both sold out immediately now so that's how much we really want to be in portland we'll be there san francisco for sure do you you're gonna give me money to go to san francisco i will i'm fucking there i don't care what i have to do i love that place don't say that too loud that's true pay's true. I don't think pay is enough. Yeah, that's true. Well, they have to deal with fucking our agents then. Look at the top 40 markets in the country and then see that number 43, 44, they're still huge-ass cities. They're still big cities and big places that we have to go.

And we still want to do those. So we got it. We'll be all around. So if you feel left out, don't be left out. We're coming to as many places as we can. We need it to balance. This is how many shows we can do and still keep our podcast really good for you guys. That's it.

And this is how many live shows we could do because we could have squeezed more in. Sure. But then they're not as good as shows because we're exhausted. Yeah. We don't want to do that. We don't want to do four shows in a weekend in different cities and not give you guys quality. And then the weekend that we're here. We want to have energy.

The weekend that I'm spending with my kids is spent saying, why don't you guys just go do something yourself? That's right. So also we're working on a crime and sports live show also. That one is going to be so fun. That's going to be insanity. So let's do that. And without further ado, we're going to get to our producers in one second. But if you would like to be a producer, if you'd like to be one of these spectacular, wonderful, fantastical, magical people. You can do that very easily.

You go to shut up and give me murder dot com and you're buying tickets and all that. You can also go over to Patreon dot com slash crime in sports and you can make a donation there or head over to PayPal and make a one time donation using our email address, which is crime and sports at Gmail dot com. And please do that. It really does help out the show a lot and now we're going to give you a list of the most incredible people in the world who have done just that and helped us out jimmy spring it on me like a like a kentuck exclamation point this week's executive producers are cheryl dodge leah gordon shannon russell uh ronald carl williams the second not Carl Williams II, not a junior, I promise. Vassa Breita and Gary Howard. And then happy MBA to Lee.

Hey, congrats. Lee got himself an MBA, and we helped him with that. So good for you, Lee. Congratulations, man. Better don't even have a high school diploma. Yeah, get out there and business manage some shit, man. No shit. Good for you.

Julia Holmes and her son, Chris Edwards, are also producers. Pierce DeCoursey, Ashley McHaffey, MKSkippy24. That's a screen name. Don't. I doubt that's somebody's name. Colleen Stachowiak. That's ruined. Moving forward.

Aaron McSweeney. No, McSweeney or McSweeney. Kenneth Garrity. Katie Murphy. Allison Davis. Ertheos Darkarma. Ertheos Darkarma. Thank you. Don Peterson. Megan Bassler. Arathios. Ah. Arathios, Dark Karma. Thank you. Thank you.

Don Peterson, Megan Bassler, Courtney Devon, Grim Karen, which I'm jacked about. That's amazing. We love Grim Karen. Megan Bassler, Courtney Devon. I said that. Gable. No, it's Gabe. Gabe Weeby?

Gabe Wybie? Gabe Weeb. Sure. That's all of them. Any possibility. Marla Happany, Tanya tanya marion robin rosenfield uh rosenfeld uh judith keel ruby ruby perez or roby i think that's a u i'm pretty sure mitchell fisher uh delinda delinda andrews luinge or luinge luinge i think that's right yeah pretty sure kathleen libby uh alice alice uh alissa that's

alissa katu katuagno alissa katuagno uh matthew uh damn it matthew winalski this is the hardest fucking week ever i'm serious kristin buford uh holly sutton joe boyd caitlin gagnon uh nicky dunn Boyd, Caitlin Gagnon, Nikki Dunn, Jude Kendall, Thomas Radio Yes. That's how it's spelled. I'm sure it's wrong. But Radio Yes sounds good. Radio Yes. New Morning Zoo. Radio Yes.

Say yes to Morning Zoo. Tomorrow morning. All week long on Radio Yes 101.6. Corbin Van Leuven, Mariah Aguirre or Benjamin Ryan, David Damitz, Eric Barber, Dominic Hooten, Simona Cuneva, Mackenzie Rankin, Amanda Miles, Edward Kaczynski, Keith and Sandy Stover, Megan McSherry. She's in the UK, I believe. Thank you, Megan. You're a sweetheart.

PETA, PETA, PETA Marie Karate. Anytime PETA. I'm never going to pronounce that PETA. That's PETA, right? It's probably PETA. It's not PETA, right? It could be PETA. It could be PETA.

There's PETA. Don't look at me. Nia Williams-Jones, rosanna rosanna robinson christina doling uh kim hodgkins yeah hodge kiss uh melody potter fletcher wilkinson jen with no last name steve valentine no steven valentine uh suzanna larson jeremy doran uh amy schwartz uh brook hand or hard i think it's hand i'm sorry bro Brooke. Either way, it's a dirty last name. Filthy. Hard or hand?

Allison Riley, Benedict Hutchinson Brooks, Michael Joseph, Valerie Ferguson, Brendan Doherty, Jinji Liu? Or Liao? Cool. Asian names are always a brutal one for me. I can't get through it. I can't do it. It's tough.

I'll never figure it out. Andy Snow, Bertie, no, Bridie, Bridie, Cornyn, Cornyn, Sarah with no last name, Dustin Lang, Allison, no, Ashley Hardison, Dustin Lang and Ashley Hardison, Gemma Hawkins, Norman Sather, Rebecca Norse, Lindsey Greth, Brandy Morgan, Becca with no last name, Tara Clarendon, James Beckman, Amy Lasher, Allison Thamelets, or Thamelets? Doesn't matter. I'm sorry. I'll never get it.

Michelle McMorris, Stephanie Hawk, Mr. and Mrs. Arnie Arbuckle Sr., Jason Durham, Homestretch. Are we ready? We're ready. Oh, we're ready. Okay. Amy Whitaker, Sophia Gamble, Kendall Broom. No, it's Bloom. I think it's Bloom.

It might be Broom. I'm sorry, Kendall. Rebecca Blechman, Denny Sheeran, Damian Barney, Liz Vasquez, Eric Langenegger, Anthony Cannella, Rachel Stora, Jason Fuller. There he is. There he is. Jana Gilbertson, Chelsea Morgan, Christopher Bossman, Bossman, that's a dope last name,

Thomas Smith, Brendan Ables, Jesse Hartman, Alexis Dobler, Kimberly Thomas, Janice Hill, Nico, ah, fuck, Nico Kostowizen, Kostowizen, Oostowizen, that's what that is. Hey, there we go. I'm in now. That's wrong anyway.

Nathan Nolte. Tyler Gwill. David Albury. Reagan Shalkley. Crystal Walker. Clay Thorson. Julia Edwards. Shelly Kiff.

Ashley Veo. Lenny Blunk. Blunk. Amanda Dvornicky. Dana Grayson. There he is. Amanda Berrigan. Jude Kendall. Peyton Meadows, Rob, no, Rana

Absher, Bourbon the Doberman, that's a dog on Snapchat. Thanks, Bourbon, appreciate you. Karen Pang and her restaurant in New York is Hunger Pang. Do you see what it is? Yeah, go eat there. It's in Brooklyn. Hunger Pang. Go eat it.

Her husband's a chef there. Jason Miller, roscoe van damme nathan little jordan bennett uh susan spiegel uh elizabeth brit britain uh alex alex five left alex alex browning karen edgen nia williams jones i said that and justin miller again thank you guys so much we appreciate it guys honestly from the bottom of our cold, dead, black hearts, we appreciate everything you guys do for us. And all of our Patreon supporters. You guys are so fucking great.

Thank you. You are. Thank you so much. And for you guys this week, we are going to put up a little bonus episode on Patreon for you guys. So that's everybody. What do you want to do, Jimmy? I don't know what level, whatever.

I think we did $10 level last time. That sounds good. That's fine. We'll do that or whatever it is. But we're going to do like a mini episode like we did last time but it's a crazy fucking story can't wait it's crazy so uh yeah check that out if you want to want to get on that do that but uh jimmy what if they wanted to get a hold of you how might these nice folks find you you can find me at wisman sucks whis man sucks on twitter instagram and snapchat and thank you guys for everything that you say and everything that you do.

You guys always tell us that you thank us for working so hard. But thank you for working hard because we can't do this show without all of you guys. So thanks for listening. What about you? Where can they tell you how much they adore you, James? Good Lord. You can tell me very easily that you like or hate me at JimmyPIsFunny. Or just copy and paste my last name from the show description and save yourself a lot of going, where does that vowel go?

It's a lot easier that way. But that said, guys, enjoy. Thank you guys for everything. Buy those tickets. And we can't wait to see you at live shows. Let's go dancing, James. No, we're not going dancing at all. But we're doing other things.

And that's great. So until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. until next week everybody it's been our pleasure bye hey prime members you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

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