Small Town Murder - #123 - Bees, Syrup & Leeches in White Earth, Minnesota

Episode Date: June 13, 2019

This week, in White Earth, Minnesota, a simple trip into the woods to go "syrupin'" ends in a well liked guy, being found, face down in the mud. There are quite a few suspects, due to the family's overcrowded living conditions, but in the end, one person, who doesn't even live with the victim begins to stand out. But did he do it? Or, was he trying to get bank loans, to start a "leeching business", while the murder occurred? Help us untangle this mess!!Along the way, we find out there is an awful lot that goes into making syrup, that leeches sound like a bad investment for a bank, and that nothing in rural Minnesota is what it seems!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in White Earth, Minnesota, a man ends up dead deep in the woods and the only clues are some footprints in the frost and some contradicting stories. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to small town murder yay yay indeed jimmy yay indeed my name

is james petrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy what's my thank you folks so much for joining us again on another warm cuddly curl up by the fire edition of small town murder here you sit you you read it by the window in phoenix read it to your toddler you know it's it's come here come listen but thank you guys for joining us this week and live from uh from hot awful phoenix in june but thank you guys once again we are going to have a blast this week thank you first of all actually before we get to that let's announce uh charlotte is on sale yes charl Live Show is finally on sale right now as you're listening to this. You can buy it.

The pre-sale was like a couple days ago, and tickets are on sale right now. Get those tickets. It's going to go fast, I know, because it's like during a festival, so there's a lot of people around. So we don't want any mediocre fans getting the tickets. You guys get them first. Get that stuff there. And Tampa and Orlando, the first weekend of the tour is coming up in a little over a month.

Let's go. Let's go, Tampa and Orlando. You want to make a showing. Do not let Omaha punk you. Yeah. Do you want to be punked by Omaha? Fucking Nebraska? Yeah.

Do you want to be embarrassed by Omaha? Do you want to be an asshole in front of Nebraska? Do you want Kansas City to make you look like shit? Do you want Pittsburgh? Do you want the Rust Belt to punk you? Because that's what's going to happen, Orlando and Tampa. Right there. I'm telling you right now.

St. Louis? The claim to fame is fucking Nelly? Come on. No, St. Louis is a notorious great out town. All of their sports teams sell really well. They're very, they like to go out in St. Louis. I don't know why. They must, their houses are awful in St. Louis.

Nelly sells a shitload of tickets still, too. That's a good point. When he's not in prison. Probably in. I think he's in jail right now. In St. Louis. Who knows? I don't know. Maybe. No, he sells a shitload of tickets still, too. That's a good point. When he's not in prison. I think he's in jail right now. In St. Louis. Who knows? I don't know.

Maybe. Who knows? God damn St. Lunatics. That's right. They're going to be. It's going to be fun. Well, thank you guys, anyway, for all of your reviews this week on whatever platforms, especially Apple Podcasts, the purple icon.

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It's not for our egos. Words can't fix us. This is strictly for business, so we would appreciate it a great deal if you could do that. Also, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMur murder.com where you can get the aforementioned charlotte tickets also tampa and orlando and every other ticket out there except for omaha kansas city st louis and pittsburgh because they're sold out but the rest of them this week we're going to do a show here our show this week takes place in minnesota and that's because they're such good they sell out so fast and we have a huge venue and it's almost sold out so minnesota get your tickets quickly venue and it's almost sold out.

So Minnesota, get your tickets quickly. I know it's not for a couple months, but you got to do it. You got to do it. And thank you for doing that. Everybody who has done that. And also at the end of the show, we're going to talk about our amazing group of fabulous, wonderful producers that are just our favorite people in the world. And if you'd like to become one of those people, you can do that very easily by going over to Patreon.com slash crime in sports or head over to PayPal and use our email address, which is crime in sports at gmail.com. And if you go, why the hell is it crime in sports? Because that's the name of our other podcast. And if you haven't listened to it, I don't know what you're doing. I really don't. It's you don't need to like sports. It's better if you don't like sports because we're making fun of athletes that are idiots and screwing up badly.

It's not a celebration of idiot athletes. It's really a ripping of them. So do that. Check that out. And we'll let out of the way. I think we need the disclaimer quickly. It's a comedy podcast. Everybody is a comedy show.

We're comedians. We're going to make jokes. That's how it works. There's lots of funny stuff that happens around murders. You wouldn't think so. You think, oh, murder. That's dark. No, not all of it it the death part's dark yeah all the rest of it's probably a lot of fun for the most part a lot of crazy things lead up to those circumstances because

we don't do generally like a you know a convenience store robbery it's not really our thing there's no backstory there we need a backstory so that's that's where the fun lies and all make fun of small towns make fun of police forces we try what we try our best not to do, though, is to make fun of the victims or the victims' families because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. So we do it like that and we think it's okay. And we think you're going to have a good time. And if you think you're going to have a good time, too, then stick around. But if you think true crime and comedy should never go together, then we're probably not

for you. We're not yours. That's okay. No problem. We're not for everybody. And that's okay no problem we're not for everybody and that's okay we're cool with that so uh have a good one for the rest of you though stand up on the cubicle stick your head out of the car window scream in the middle of the gym and scare the shit out of everybody else who's trying to get their heart rate up scream shut up and give me murder let's do this jimmy just dropped a barbell. I heard it. I heard it, too. Yeah, I did. Who the fuck? They reported that person to the manager.

Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. What do you say? Let's do this. Let's go. We're going to get out of the... We've been in the muck and the mire. We've been all over the place lately. We're going to go up.

We're going to go up to Minnesota. Yeah, it's chilly. It's chilly. Nice up there. The people are... So nice. Ridiculously nice to the point where you think they're lying, but they're not. It's the level of southern hospitality, except they're not full of shit up there.

Because in the south, that's all just real. I mean, they'll act like that, but we know you're not that nice. Come on. In Minnesota, though, it could be smoke and mirrors sometimes. And I got in the car with one of our listeners and drove up to go see one of the houses we covered. No, they're just nice. And I could be dead right now. No.

I'm an idiot. They're the nicest people. Let's go. Let's go have a look-see. It's ridiculous how nice they are. In the South, it's like they're nice, but you know when they turn to whoever they came with, they go and they talk shit. In Minnesota, they are nice and they turn to whoever they came with and they go, that seemed like a nice fella, eh? They're like the nicest i know that's canadian but you're pretty

much canadian light and we like you guys up there's what we're saying number he was nice he was nice well we're going all the way up to white earth minnesota yeah this is in northwestern minnesota kind of central northwest all of minnesota white earth white earth yeah because it's there's snow on the ground for the most part here. Santa Claus has his autumn residence here. It's very nice for that time of year. It's about three hours and 45 minutes to Minneapolis. It's an hour and 10 minutes to Fargo, North Dakota. So it's over that side and northwest of Minneapolis.

And about four hours and 45 minutes to Red Wing, Minnesota, which was episode 84. Things I learned in that one our last one in september 2018 that was so it's been a while it's been a while since we've been to minnesota eight months you wouldn't think so eight nine months could have had a baby the time it took for us to get back to minnesota this is in becker county minnesota here zip code 56591 area code 218 that's for white earth and we'll talk about this because there's so much confusion with these towns because all these towns kind of overlap and they're all so rural that the lines are like in the woods so it's all very the town lines are it's

just all woods up there so it's not really like oh you know uh you know elm street separates that town and that town it doesn't work like that It's just somewhere in those woods, there's a divider somehow. It's between counties. It's really weird. Paint the trees or some shit? They should, actually. All our trees are this color. All your trees are that color.

And then it's segregationist trees. Minnesota will not do that. They say, no, all of our trees go together, even though they're all white. Right. Flying over that place i was blown away with how many goddamn trees there's a lot of trees no hills trees start bragging about how many lakes you got start bragging about the trees there's there's a lot of white people everywhere yeah a lot of in this case like right away i was like are these people white or i don't know what

color they are and then i thought of you know just i don't know who they are and i'm looking into it and then i'm like what am i even looking into this for? It's Minnesota. Unless someone specifically tells you that Kirby Puckett was on the scene, everyone's white. That's it. He wasn't there. So it's 3.9 square miles, this town. Some of it's on a lake. There's lakes everywhere in Minnesota. A motto here is, quote, just on their site, it's White Earth Nation welcomes you.

It's on everything. Or they also have this on their site, it's White Earth Nation Welcomes You. Jesus. It's on everything. Or they also have this on their site. It's not really a motto, but it just says, quote, Purchase wild rice online! Exclamation point. How tired are you coming into the store? It's lots of just, we have wild rice. It's what we have here, wild rice.

Or their lesser known one, the home of Gore-Tex underwear, which is where it would be. Is that true? No, that's not true. What's Gore-Tex? It's this awful. Did I miss your joke? I'm sorry. Never mind. Never mind, Jimmy. They made winter coats out of it. I've got to know

what Gore-Tex is. George Costanza had a big Gore-Tex coat and he knocked the wine over what's along. Never mind. Damn it. Forget it, Jimmy. Okay. It's this plastic, squeaky material that's very warm. If you wore it on your balls, it'd be strange.

That's why. Well, therein lies the joke, but never mind. Now, this area was a reservation, this area, and technically still is, except the local Indians don't own the land anymore. It's very strange. They're still local Indians? Yes, they do. They have a lot of native americans in this area of of minnesota native americans and woods people

yeah basically like weird foraging woods people as we'll talk about in this episode we've got indians and then white indians it's not even no these are like i can't explain these people we'll talk about it. But this was obviously. Indigenous whites? This is bizarre. Not really. No, no, no, no.

They're like if you just imported them from West Virginia. They're like hill people, sort of, except there's no hills there. Got it. So they're lake people, I guess, here. Now, there was obviously, this was Native American land before the Europeans got here. This was Native American land before the Europeans got here. And so they named them the Ojibwe Indians is what the Europeans named them. And no one's sure exactly how this developed or anything like that. And no one.

Just one of those. They stuck a name on them. And then it stuck for the next few hundred years, even though that's not their name. And it means nothing. Minnesotans really love the Native American tongue, though. They use, they use, they name everything after Native American shit. All up north, but New York's the same way. A bunch of white people who can't pronounce shit in their town. Upstate New York is everything like that, too.

I'm from Wappingers Falls, New York. That's not a, you know. I guess San Diego's very similar. Southern California in general. Yeah, whoever was there. Everything's named Spanish shit. Yeah, whoever was there. A bunch of white people who can pronounce their shit yeah whoever's there when he got there you named the

shit after him for the most part some of these places so yeah this is uh the it's the white earth reservations located in three different counties spread across north central minnesota it was created in 1867 by a treaty between the u.S. and the Mississippi Band of the Chippewa Indians. And it's one of the seven Chippewa reservations in Minnesota. The white earth Chippewa don't live here anymore. But it's very strange. They don't live here anymore. But some people, they live in this area, but not in the same way.

It's a different thing now. There's no, I don't know how to put this. area but not in the same way it's a different thing now it's they've they've they've there's no how to put this that's uh they've definitely come to the modern age and stepped out of tradition in this thing which i guess is why wouldn't they it's the modern age everybody else has stepped into the modern age but it's uh uh they are it's a very this area has very much overtones of the past and of the older you know the older uh older Indian customs and all sorts of shit like that. It's pretty cool. Yeah.

Cool shit here. So these people, the these ancestors came, the ancestors came here looking for water and forest land. And they found it here. Lots of fish, lots of beaver shit like that to do here. They found it here. Lots of fish, lots of beaver shit like that to do here. And eventually here, Becker County was named for General George Loomis Becker, who was of St. Paul in 1857. He was a Minnesota was a new state.

He was one of the three men elected as members of Congress from Minnesota, and they can only send two. I don't know if they couldn't afford the third one. Look, we got room and board for fucking two of you. But we're not sending three to Washington. That's too much. So this guy just stayed here. They made a deal with him that, okay, there's three of us. Two of us can go.

We'll go. If you stay here, you get the next county named after you. That was the deal they made. And he was like, all right. Deal. We're not taking fucking Becker with us. He's a total dick. No.

Well, how are we going to? I don't know. We'll fucking name something after him. Dude, he's a pompous ass. He's a total dick. No. Well, how are we going to? I don't know. We'll fucking name something after him. He won't. He's a dude. He's a pompous ass. He's a dummy and he'll just take anything. If we put a fucking sign up with his name on it, he'll do anything.

So whatever. So, yeah, they named it after him. I wonder if he's the founder of like that money company. I don't know. That's his middle name. I don't know. It's George Loomis Becker. Oh, or it might have been his mother's maiden name.

How they who the hell knows how they used to fucking name their kids back then so yeah for the 10 years after becker county was established there was no white people there yet though it was just the uh chippewa indians were all there and that was it here the sioux indians had a part of this area also and and near a lake that was here and then they had the uh the treaty in 1867 and that established this whole uh area this whole reservation colonel george johnston was the founder of detroit lakes which is kind of seems like the nearest town like of any any anything in this area because there's only there's a few towns and they all kind of blend together it's this is the really strange area it's really hard to uh really hard to to figure out i gotta be honest with you here but they called the one place detroit lakes so that was uh the original

detroit nowhere near detroit nowhere near detroit absolutely not no just detroit lakes there and probably somebody was from michigan and i mean who the fuck knows here detroit's on one giant ass lake yeah that's what i mean they don't need any more detroit little detroit we got here it's cold there too people come here it's the same thing you know who gives a shit so in 1881 there was uh the detroit lakes was uh was incorporated as detroit which was french for straight really so yeah apparently that's a french word for straight it was detroit like a waterway straight that kind of straight yeah yeah yeah like a straight like yeah not like not like not a straight hour yeah yeah you know what i mean you know what i'm saying french for straight so they're like there's no no gays in the land i don't think that's what

happened here so uh detroit though became by the 1880s you had a nice hotel and like you know an opera house and a newspaper they started becoming some shit actually here they had an ice company there which bottled and sold spring water awesome that was the first industry there and in 1926 it was renamed detroit lakes to stop getting mail from detroit michigan because people don't know their state codes either, so it's Detroit MI. Oh, shit. Minnesota's MN, but if you're an idiot,

or not an idiot, if you just don't know, you put MI, and you think it's me, so you end up with mail going to the wrong fucking places. Like, we're sticking to lakes on the end of this shit. So much postal confusion in the development of this country. I want to see a documentary on postal confusion. That's what happens when you name eight states states m you know that's the problem and you yeah there's only fucking 50 that's the thing yeah it's it's difficult and then you have your

abbreviations which are the two-letter thing is what if they made them four-letter abbreviations you'd never have a problem but they made them two-letter abbreviations and confused the shit out of everyone here well the in on wheel of Fortune, R-S-T-L-N-E, those are the most popular letters in the English language, and we somehow landed eight states starting with an M. How did we do that? It's all M. All fucking M.

Eight out of 50. So in 1941, the state fire marshal described the courthouse as a very serious fire hazard and a menace to public safety. How many courthouse fires have we had in this show's history? It's always on fire. So they sold the courthouse

to a wrecking company for $531. You could have bought the whole courthouse for $531. What was left of it? It wasn't burned. They just said it's going to burn. They deemed it as a possibility. It's a tinderbox.

They said it's a fire hazard. It's a menace to public safety. We're going to build another one, sell it off for 531 bucks. Oh, that's amazing. So you could have moved in, been real careful with your open flames, and been fine, and lived in a courthouse. So they had a new courthouse here. About 10% of the reservation now, the White Earth, is Indian-owned.

So it's not. The tribe is legally contesting title to a bunch of government owned land within the Bres boundaries. There's a whole legal battle going on as there's a million legal battles all over the country with these reservations and different resource extraction

and all that sort of shit here. A guy from here, a guy named Joe Guyon, who is Joseph Big Chief Guyon. I don't know if you, he was an Indian guy from this area and he played football and baseball. He played he was like the the 19 to the 19 teens and 1920s, like big shot athlete. One of the kind of like a Jim Thorpe type. He played for the Canton Bulldogs, who's an original NFL team.

Washington Senators, the NFL back then, the New York Giants in 1927, Kansas City Cowboys, all of these old Cleveland Indians. These are old football teams played for them. He's an NFL Hall of Pro Football Hall of Famer. Yeah, pro football and college football Hall of Famer, which is pretty awesome here. So, yeah, I don't believe he's still alive. No. Yeah.

1971. I got it. which is pretty awesome here. Is he still alive? I don't believe he's still alive. No. Yeah, 1971 he died. Okay, got it. So, yeah, he also was a national champion on his college team, NFL champion. He's an All-America college guy. Just an amazing athlete from here. Native American from here. Yeah, he's kind of like their Jim Thorpe of this area, who's also Native American. People in this town, we'll talk about this here.

People, his population is 5 populations 548 none so very small and this is it's rural man 548 that when we talk about 3.9 miles that's like the town proper but like i said it's just woods yeah shit goes out in the woods the population's up 72 since 1990 at 549 that's up that's up 72 people have gone to these rural areas in the last 30 years, apparently. Median age here is only 28.6, which is normally about 38 in this country. That's a baby. It's three times the five to nine-year-olds as normal. Okay.

And also, there's three times the 15 to 17-year-olds as normal. For real, a lot of babies. Shit loads of kids here. People are just, they moved here and started pumping kids out like crazy. So it's about, there's a little more female than male, but it's about an average. Married population, though, it's normally 50-50. Here it is 20%, which is by far the lowest we've ever had. That's a lot of kids for nobody being married.

20% married. Everybody's a child. This is, something's up here. Unless maybe because all the kids aren't married. There's only up here yeah unless maybe because all the kids aren't married there's only 20 parents yeah all the kids aren't married maybe that's what it is if you have if you you and your wife have 10 kids yeah 20 of you are married that's true or you have eight kids 20 of you are married that's that so that's the math of it so yeah 80 single uh but single with no children 15 almost nobody so it's nobody single with children 59 wow yeah it's there's a definite pattern here let's just say here married with

children only 20 of the population they are fucking having kids and then hating each other and hating each other and the like the divorce rate though is not much higher than normal no the widow rates a little bit higher but nothing that would you know constitute this complete And hating each other. And hating each other. And the divorce rate, though, is not much higher than normal. No. The widow rate's a little bit higher, but nothing that would constitute this complete anomaly of statistic. Now, race of this town, it is 6% white. Yeah. What? 6. 62 is the average in the country.

Average for small town murder is about 112. 97? About 112%, usually. 6. 6. 6.02% white. Okay. 0.0% black. Yeah. well that 112 usually here uh six six point oh two percent white zero point zero percent black kirby puckett is not here he's he has a house somewhere else so that we know uh 1.28 percent asian so not a lot of asians either 80 percent native american that's where you're going to get the bulk to 10 percent hispanic so that's about right. 68% of the people here are religious, which is higher than the 50-50 normal.

There's about 23% Catholic, 30% Lutheran because it's Minnesota. And then I assume, I don't know, whatever that tribe, whatever their religion is. I'm not sure. Now, voting-wise, Becker County, county about 30 of the people voted democrat in the last election about 63 republican it's very rural it's you know pretty normal for that uh the unemployment rate here is just about the same as the rest of the u.s a little under four percent the uh the median household income though is a little lower let's say 58 000 is about the national average and here it is 20 547 for a household income that's very low that's nothing that's nothing 42 percent of

people make under 15 000 a year 42 percent 73 percent of people make thirty thousand or less oh my word this town that's that's horrific couple that with all the kids yeah and think about what's happening here and it's not good it's not not a good pattern on food that's the thing is a lot of these people do really that's the we'll talk about we're going to talk about people that are like syruping and they fucking raise leeches and bees and shit it's this is bonkers what we have today for you it's insane insane so here the jobs i mean there's some retail trade little bit of construction but it's like over 11 of the jobs are in the utilities so that's you know not there's not a lot of people there so that's a lot of jobs for for that sort of thing well utility companies

like to put like their manufacturing of the utility whether it's a power plant or a gas thing they like to put it in in reservation land and then have native americans work those finally that's what they do that makes sense yeah they're in the uh health care is also 25 percent here of the of the jobs which is way above what it normally is so they put these plants there in the in the native american areas and have them run it and then they bring in a bunch of white guys to run the fucking thing and make good money you know to me oh i got you yeah that's the kind of contribute how about you fucking contribute kind of a pattern i think that's been happening for a while now it feels like a little bit cost of living here 100 being average par whatever the hell you want to say here here it is 77 so for that low of a you know household

income this is not that uh cheap let's just say the but the good thing is the low one here is housing that's about a 45 median home cost is 90 900 which is still tough if you make 20 grand a year for your whole house that's brutal that's rough and if we've convinced you damn it you need to get away step away from it all you've had enough of real life you've had enough you need to go looking for shit in the woods to eat then we have done smiling are you done you want to freeze and look for your fucking you want to dig in the ice to look for food well we have for you the white earth minnesota Minnesota Real Estate Report. All right here. So I found a few houses.

It's hard to find information on shit here. This is a tough one, man. This is a tough one. So I found in the town itself, I can't find anything. But I found in nearby towns that are right there, that are two minutes this way, two minutes that way. I found one in Woburn, which we'll talk about a little bit in this episode it's a two-bedroom one bath 2 000 square foot home uh it looks like it's possibly manufactured of some kind how do you get 2 000 square feet out of two bedrooms one bath i don't know if that is a shit load of footage i feel like that includes a porch or something of that nature i don't know there's a couple of walls in there 54 900 bucks so maybe it has no roof and they include up as a

square footage two bedroom two bath 1884 square foot house here this isn't on this is on almost five acres of property it's a lot of property this is 180 000 bucks but that's a big swath of land for 180 grand with a house on it then found, if you want it, you know what? You don't want their old house. Maybe you want to build your own. Well, you just want to pitch a tent and live old style and forage for things. 2.54 acres of land in Omega, which is right here, for $45,000. That's a pretty good deal.

It's a steal. So there you go. Move there. Things to do in this town. Interesting. I found the 2019 White Earth Pow Wow and Celebration. Oh, you can't do that. You can't.

They do it. Oh, my God. It's the reservations people themselves put it on. That's what they call it. So I don't know if that's to try to attract. Was that a Native American term or did we give them that thing? It seems like something we would have said to make fun of it. Like wigwam.

Those are two words that I would accept. I think it's actually a thing. Really? Yeah, I think it's that. They said powwow. That's what they call it. Join us for the 151st annual. They've been doing this a while.

I feel like language is going to be different from 150 years ago. Powwow and celebration. June 14th to 16th. So if you're listening to this, get your asses over there. It's happening now. Tonight. Yeah. So it's at the White Earth Pow Wow Grounds in White Earth, Minnesota. Why does that feel so gross?

It feels terrible to say. I feel like I'm just saying the N word repeatedly. Have you heard Tim McGraw's song Indian Outlaw? No, you have not. Never mind. I just looked at Jimmyimmy like what do you think it's a 30 year old song i figured you stumbled on it by now my point is that that song if it comes out today that guy never sings another song ever if you ever listen to that song it is the most culturally appropriating insulting song ever it's horrific i'm sure i can't believe tim mcgraw got away with that i'm sure i'm sure it's imagine what he said not in a microphone

think about that i'm sure that he took a break from from singing it at least twice was like i can really say that y'all say that i can do this like the southern guy is like yeah they're great people and he was like these damn fucking red bastards i'm gonna sing this goddamn now let me tell you all a little something about whereas the minnesota be like i like these indian people they're nice people it's a different thing completely this song is horrible i can't believe it's real jesus christ man says uh though the white earth powwow is a celebration of the white earth reservations people and heritage everyone is invited it's open event, not just for the native people, but for everyone. Say it twice just to make sure you know. You're allowed here.

Just please. Around 1,000 dancers and 28 drum groups performed last year with similar numbers expected again. Jesus, they're flying them in. It's fucking badass, actually. Those drum groups are fucking good. They're badass. And also, in Nevis, Minnesota minnesota musky days i don't even need to know i looked it up and was like i was gonna i was you know copying down what it was

about and i was like i don't need this it's called musky days that's as minnesota as you get is it in is it in fucking summertime i think it is yeah i'm just wondering if musky like describes the smell no musky is they they eat musky the fish up there is that a fish it's a fish and they're very they're very much into the musky up there it's the it's the uh the walleye of minnesota really if you're in wisconsin it's all about the walleye if you're in uh in minnesota it's all about the musky and i think if you go down south then you're into crappie country i believe if i'm not mistaken it's that's even no no i meant south from there like indiana that area not down south south that's catfish that's catfish with

your hand with you or whatever that's noodling now uh core whatever you got stick a foot in there what's a noodle i lost a hand so i'll just use my foot now figure i can hop if anything happens whatever's left. Nubs. So crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, property crime is just below average, maybe about 10% below average, but pretty much near average. Violent crime, though, murder, rape, robbery, and assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime is about half the average. So it's relatively low crime for a place where people make little money, don't marry, but yet have lots of kids. That's a low crime rate for that because normally those factors just end up with crime.

You end up with kids that are unsupervised and have nothing to do. When kids don't have an authoritarian anywhere nearby, they're going to get in trouble. They get in trouble. It's just how it works. So that's kind of what's going on there. But no, here they've kept them together. Hopefully when those five to nine year olds become a little older, things don't flip and turn the other way. Now, let's talk about a murder.

Okay. Okay. Let's do this. Let's get into this. Now, this murder, it says in different court documents from different appeals and different and original trials and then from newspaper clippings and then from other state documents that this particular crime happened in three different towns okay so they all kind of cross over each other that was the thing and it happens in it happens in a rural area where i don't know if they don't know where it crosses or

what but uh like it sounds like a venn diagram it's kind of like that and technically i guess this town this would sort of be in maple grove township but then it's also they call it omega but then it's also called white earth because of where the so who the fuck knows i just picked white earth and i went with it because you know what it's this is a it's like a two-hour show already confusing i didn't want to give three different town histories. All towns are within five minutes of each other. It doesn't matter. It's this area.

It's the reservation tried to stick to the general deal. Kiss my ass is what I'm saying. That's all. So that said, as a nice intro here, let's talk about a fella, shall we? Let's talk about a guy named Chadad swedeberg oh now i really didn't have to look up to see what i was gonna say to probably not a black guy either judging by both his name and his location i'm gonna go with a white dude named chad swedeberg which are the two whitest names i can think of uh he's about 34 years old in 2007, we'll say. And you're going to hear a lot of things in this that you're going to almost hear it and go, so this is like 1922.

This is like what? The Depression? What are we talking about here? And then you'll be like, and so he called him on his cell phone. And you're like, oh, wait, this is modern times. Holy shit. What's going on here? What the fuck is going on?

Where's the moonshine still? What is fucking happening here? There's ban on here what's the fuck is going on who wears the moonshine still what is fucking happening here there's banjos it's weird all right my house is plenty tickled it's fucked so chad swedeberg here lives with his wife his wife leslie leslie fane now they live in rural becker county out here now leslie and and swedeberg got married but they didn't tell chad's family that they got married oh because they don't approve of leslie oh yeah probably because her son jesse is three years younger than chad okay that's weird so i'm going to assume that's the reason why they don't approve of the relationship she's a little bit older than him and has a son that's like the same age so it's a little weird and they're you know they're just not okay with it no we're not going to judge anybody i don't fucking know

what their life is about i like it i'm hey you know what maybe they get along great i don't fucking know what's going on i just it's not my business but when opposites do that shit just great who cares it's such a interesting dichotomy it's fascinating it's interesting all right yeah this is it's a good word fascinating for this well they all live uh kind of in this house in the woods and uh chad lives with his wife leslie and also a bunch of leslie's relatives live there as well uh a ton her son jesse who was 31 at the time and chad's 33 and uh so uh they got along great though everybody said they were like everybody was like oh they're great friends like they were good friends it's like well they were yeah they went playing with the high school together right so yeah it's like you remember mrs thompson biology she was a bitch

right oh dude she was the worst she gave me a c yeah fuck her it's not just that is that they know the same people they have references they know the same people they have they borrow they know each other's music and movies and references you know they wear the same size shirt yeah you know they like the same cereal that they're that leslie can put out on saturday morning for them you know it's really convenient so it's a little weird here so jesse's not only does jesse live there but also his wife lives there because jesse can't not be married there he's got to have a wife oh by the way and his three kids live there too hold on a man with three kids and his wife is living with his mother he's living with his mother and he's 31 years old it's not like he's 22 and had a tough run of it he's fucking 31 here so in may of 1980 near anaheim california dorothy jane scott noticed

her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app

or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted

teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister

than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Oh, this is rough. Chad's living at home. We also, in addition to that, his three kids, like we said, also Leslie's sister and her kid live there as well. Oh, boy.

So Chad is, wow, he's a patient man. How big is this house? Oh, by the way, Ken, who is Chad's older brother, lived right by there, like very close with his wife and three kids also. So this guy is overrun with family. This is horrible. His house is, that's a lot of people living in his house. Let's get him, his wife, the son and his wife three kids, and then the other one that's five, seven. There's nine people total living in the house.

This is way too many. This is the Brady Bunch, including Alice. Right. But Alice is actually, someone's got to have a job of cleaning and making shit and keeping all these kids in line, and that's what Alice does, and no one has this job specifically as a profession in this house here. So April 13, 2007. Let's a profession in this house here. So April 13th, 2007. Let's talk about that particular date here. Now, Chad Sweetberg, he's going to...

This is okay. We're going to have to talk about a few things. He's planning that morning to go process some maple syrup. Okay. Okay. Now, he processes maple syrup. What's his job? I don't't know not really oh it's not a job he's just doing that for fun he just does it i don't know if he plans to eventually sell this syrup on the syrup i don't know if there's like a syrup market a secondary run it up to wall street maybe

or he's got some sort of like really like organic online business but i don't i feel like no i feel like he's gonna go like put his like a van on the side of the road and be like i got syrup like a handwritten sign right like the guys in arizona who go this is phoenix it'll be 112 degrees outside you'll be driving not even in the city like outside the city but in the desert there's just a guy with a fucking van on the side of the road with sign that says shrimp right like i'm gonna buy sure we've talked about it, I'm going to buy shrimp when it's 112. Fruit, dust, and cocoa.

From a man in a van. I don't think so. This is the same thing, I feel like. He's going out there, jars of syrup, shaking them around. So gross. Nasty. So he plans to process maple syrup

with the help of his friend, a guy named Albert Baker. Now, Albert Baker is 72 years years old so he's an older guy he's lived around here forever he's an electrician he was an electrician for caterpillar tractor company for 30 years and he's uh he's everybody calls him the go-to guy if you need technical assistance with anything okay he's really good at like helping people build things or make things if you need to figure out handyman yeah like if you need to figure out like uh something with maple syruping he can help you out or leeching he knows about leeching as well we'll talk about this yeah there's leeches involved in

this episode here that's what i mean we're in another century but it's 10 years ago so this is weird as fuck albert at one point said quote i mostly help everybody i've wired some houses poured some concrete built some houses too he also he built the 200 plus uh gallon or cast aluminum maple sap chart he built 200 cast aluminum maple sap traps okay he to put all on these trees i guess 200 i guess to put to put on the trees yeah uh these are all used by chad and he this al baker also built the syrup condenser as well oh this is how your syrup is made i didn't know that you had to do that i don't know this guy's like fucking mr buttersworth he's doing a great job i guess mr buttersworth uncle jemima well yeah that's what i picture tracy morgan as Uncle Jemima. Uncle Jemima. Well, yeah, that's what I picture. Tracy Morgan as Uncle Jemima.

What was the SNL? Uncle Jemima. Is that real? Uncle Jemima's mash liquor. And he's, Tracy Morgan's like drinking this shit and he's like seeing the cartoon birds and he's like, get these damn birds away from me. And there's a dude sitting next to him going, I don't see no birds, man. Are you all right?

And he keeps, he goes, I don't think you should drink any more of that. Uncle Jemima's mash liquor. It's pretty damn funny. I wish I would have seen that. It's good stuff. Sounds great. Look it up on YouTube. It's damn funny.

It's Tracy Morgan. Was it Mad TV or was that SNL? No, it's SNL. Was it? Yeah, SNL. So they said it was funny, which. You got to wait until I get the water in me. Which, I mean, SNLl it's been a while but

mad tv has never been fucking funny not for three seconds don't even say it is ever the guy that was the grown-up kid never mind michael mcdonald i opened for him one time nicest fucking guy on earth i had no idea who he was and uh so i was just talking to him and he said yeah when i was on mad tv i was just talking to him and he said yeah when i was on mad tv i was like you're on mad tv he went yeah i was like okay like i'm not like oh yeah i remember okay that's great yeah good for you a nice fucking guy real good guy and funny guy too but uh his his character was uh probably the best thing on that was it it was just like a grown-up boy that would just say look what i could do and then he'd poke you in the eye no or pull his mom's hair or something i think maybe i was wrong about mad tv i think it was

did i just change more intellectual than i thought it was i see your sarcasm it's highbrow i get it arty lang just has a great story about doing coke on the show and that that kills me it's a great but they didn't put that shit on the show. The show would have been amazing. That would have been amazing. If they show Artie Lang in a pig outfit running around L.A., get high on coke. That's tremendous. That's a show. Yeah. To me, that show always looked like the American version of that Mexican show with the guy in the bee costume running around.

I wish I had seen that. With people... I think it gets like 200 million viewers in Mexico or some crazy shit. Yeah. It's been on for 50 years. Really? Yeah. It's the one they make fun of on The Simpsons.

The guy in the bee costume that's an actual guy in Mexico. An actual show that's like... See, I'm a problem. You ever seen the one with like the... Oh God, they have the drawn on... It's ridiculous. I try so hard, James. I've seen so many things, just nothing that everybody else has seen.

So my references are shit and yours are great ones. You got Tim McGraw references, but a lot of our people get it. A lot of people have heard Tim McGraw. There'll be people going, I know the song you're talking about, Jimmy. And you're right. It's a piece of shit. It's a piece of shit. Fuck Tim McGraw.

Hashtag fuck Tim McGraw. This is just all mainstream country. It's all garbage. Stop listening to the radio. That's the point. That's awesome. Dig deep and find good music. Yeah, goddammit.

So, yeah, so he's supposed to go out with Albert Baker and Jesse Fane, his stepson here. Now, the plan was for him to arrive, because the syruping camp, which this is a new term for me. I did not realize that syruping required a camp. Right. I picture tents. I picture it's like a civil war. You know, there's generals. A lot of things going on with this syrup. A little smelting pot.

Oh, they do, too. They have these big condenser tanks and all sorts of crazy shit. So the plan is for Chad to get to the syruping camp a little earlier than Albert Baker and Jesse Fane because Chad needs to cut the wood to fuel the evaporator. This is getting more complicated by the second.

I'm going to appreciate maple syrup so much more next time I have any. How much work went into this bottle, kid? I'm going to be fascinated by it. Pouring that shit on your pancakes like it's not a big deal? Fucking pussy. I'm going to be like, ketchup? They just take tomatoes and fucking mash it

and put sugar in it. There you go. There's your ketchup. You know what it takes to make this shit? They just take tomatoes and fucking mash it and put sugar in it. There you go. There's your ketchup. You know what it takes to make this shit? They got a goddamn condenser. Men have to go into the woods all weekend and have condensers and chop wood. There's a lot that goes into this. A man chopped wood for this, goddammit.

They set up tents to make this shit. For fuck's sake. They risked their lives over this syrup. So, yeah, he's going to cut the fuel, the wood for the fuel to fuel the evaporator and have the camp all ready by the time Fane and Baker arrive later in the morning. Now, Swedenberg here, Chad, he gets delayed at the house and he doesn't leave the house until about 8 a.m., which is later than he's supposed to. The reason why is fucking hilarious, by the way. He planned to go there. Before leaving, he intended, though, to watch a segment on TV about a man who lived with wolves. Yeah.

I'll watch that, too. He was waiting all morning for it. You wouldn't delay your day for it, though. If you had to go, you're like, I don't know. The wolf thing's not on. I'm going to go now. This guy sat around waiting for this wolf show to air, this segment about a wolf man. Right.

And it never aired right so he got super pissed and waited and left late fucked his whole day up for these wolves this is recent this is 2007 this isn't like fucking exists tevo exists you can do you can get a vcr for like four dollars back then like it's 30 year old technology and like you could get you can make things get recorded if you need them in 2007. Something's on TV. I'm not fucking my day for it. No.

That's what I mean. That's why I said this is from another time, where you're like, oh, it must have been like 1955, and they'll never re-air it, and you heard it was on. No, no, no. And then you hear cell phone, and you're like, wait a second. Where are we? Just keep in mind 2007, always. So he became apparently agitated and frustrated and super pissed off.

The show wasn't on over the wolves over the wolf man. This man, this guy, I feel like, well, you know what? I kind of understand now that I think about it. He lives in a house with nine fucking people and his stepson and his three kids and his sister-in-law and her shitty kid. You know, he's got to be like, you know what? I'm going to live with the fucking wolves. I don't care anymore. It's no different.

There's a fucking show on. I'm going to find out what this guy does. And I'm going to live with the wolves. I want to see what it's like. Because you know what? It might be better than this shit. It might be better. All my shit's eaten anyway.

Fuck it. Fuck it. I bet the wolves are more fucking considerate. Wolves will turn lights off you cock suckers i'm shitting outside never mind i might as well because there's no room in the bathroom all right so yeah this is becoming i feel like that's the reason why this is his fantasy he just wanted to live vicariously through wolfman for a minute and just sense the quiet yeah you know a wolf will go and he's like yeah's like, yeah, I want to feel that.

And so that's all I'm going to get. No one's asking for like, you know. It's not a baby crying. No, it's great. No babies crying. No one's asking for food. This is phenomenal. So, yeah, this did not air.

So he's super pissed. Yeah. And he says, I have to fucking go. But he tells his wife, Leslie, you watch the fucking wolf show. Tell me about it. Give me the clip notes. Literally, he said, you fucking stay here and show and tell me about it. Give me the clip. No, literally. He said, you fucking stay here and watch this goddamn Wolfman show and then fucking tell me about it. That was her job was to stay and monitor the TV for the Wolfman show to come on.

You better fucking memorize it. This is amazing. This is the funniest thing in this whole thing. First of all, never mind that he's delaying going out for some maple syrup evaporation gathering concentrating trip and setting up a syruping camp that aside set that aside yeah and he made his wife stay to fucking take notes on the wolf show for him who this is something archie bunker would say edith sit down here with the with the notebook so good and take notes on that damn show. Okay, Arch.

And you'd sit there and do it. I gotta go make money. Let's go, dingbat. I gotta get out of here. But not in this time, this day and age. Wouldn't she say, can't we just TiVo it? They got a DVR. Just click.

There we go. It was free with the service. It's fine. They have this. This show's on every fucking. It'll be on again at one in the morning. Like, it's always on so anyway he says fuck it leslie you watch the wolves i have to go hurry up and get the fire

going before al gets there because then it's all going to be going so he takes off and literally within 10 seconds as leslie said of chad walking out the door wolfman show came on oh no so she's like god damn it now i gotta watch this fucking wolf show here so leslie yelled for chad chad the wolf the fucking wolf guy the wolves are on and he didn't respond he was already too far into the woods and by then he's like i'm not turning back right i got my boots on it's cold what am i doing with the wolves anyway now i'm the wolf man so i'll take notes it's fine so thanks for nothing, yeah, he doesn't respond. So after he takes off shortly after a couple of minutes go by, Leslie says she hears two loud gunshots from the direction of the syruping camp. Now, normally, any gunshots in the woods is not a big deal.

There's a ton of people hunting around here. It's the woods. There's tons of like I said to there's like a lot of foraging type people and there's people hunting but it concerned her because it wasn't hunting season it's april and that was after hunting season and so she thought there was no reason for gunshots in that area that's more of a hunting area it's not like over where people do target practice or anything like that got it so she thought it was weird so she called chad's phone after she heard the gunshots and uh she wasn't she said she wasn't sure what time she heard the shots but after hearing the shots she then she uh

started looking at her looking for her phone to call chad uh her first call to him was at 813 a.m. And there was no answer. And then she called him at 815 and no answer. And then 827, 845 and 856. She heard gunshots and she calls him every six minutes. What the fuck? First, she does it every two minutes and then she waits 12 because, as we'll find out, she's she's doing other shit here. He didn't answer any of the called any of the calls. She's worried, obviously, because there was gunshots and he's not answering her phone. So she says, rather than I better go out and see what happens, she says, all right, I'm going to get in the shower and get ready for work.

And then I'll call him before I leave one more time. Okay. Because who knows? He's out there syruping. So, I mean, the gunshots could have been from anywhere. She's not that worried. She's just like, I'd like to hear that he's fucking alive. Just get some saving grace and some good news and be OK.

And yeah, he gets rid of the agita and the anxiety. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, she she does that. She gets ready for work. She takes a shower. And then before she leaves, she calls him one more time because she said she was hoping she didn't have to walk back to the syruping camp and go find him. She's like, yeah, well, she's also in her work.

Yeah. You fucking. You learn nothing from the wolf, man. Nothing. Fucking. You took notes. She took notes. She didn't do anything for him.

So she ends up calling his phone again. This is 945 a.m. She calls his phone. So there was a gap between 856 and 945 of her calling him where that was her getting ready for work. Again, no answer. So she says, God damn it. I got to walk down the trail all the way to the goddamn syruping camp. Now, I hate.

Don't you hate when you have to go to the syruping camp? It's the worst. Well, how long is the walk? Well, I mean, it doesn't matter. I'm always every 10 minutes i'm like again with the syrup in camp jesus christ spend more time in a syruping camp than i do in my own living room jimmy and it's you know what it's disturbing at this point you know i want to live my life i don't want to just think about syrup all the time and that's

all i'm thinking about that's it so now well you smell delicious, I smell mapley. Wonderful. Like a long John, like a maple one. Glorious donut maple bar. Oh, yeah. Fucking amazing. Those are good when they're filled. When they're not, they're fucking terrible. I don't want that at all. I don't want my shit to taste like maple for the most part.

Well, I mean, I'll eat it. I'll eat it if it's there. I'm not opposed. Not any kind of snob about it. No, it's not snobbing. Nothing. You know, if it's a donut and it's not really a donut, it's so much dough, it's got to have something to break it up, man.

Yeah, you got to stop it with the... Some creamy filling. It's too much pastry. You're not just a giant... Too much bread. I think that's what they're trying to do. I don't know. Fill your ass up with some fried shit.

Stick that in your face, stupid. You don't like it? Go live with the wolves. Enjoy. So, stupid. You don't like it? Go live with the wolves. Enjoy. So, shit. So, yeah, she ends up walking back. Leslie walks back to check on Chad. And as she's walking back, she hears a four-wheeler coming from the woods.

A four-wheeler. The noise of a four-wheeler in the woods. In the general direction of where Chad is supposed to be working. She was wondering who could be back there with him because none of the other guys were supposed to be there yet, but they might be because, like we said, there's two people coming. But I don't know if she thought they were going to be with a four-wheeler or what. So she ends up walking back there, and she sees Chad laying on the ground.

Uh-oh. She sees Chad laying on the ground. She sees Chad laying on the ground. She sees that something is wrong with him. So he's lying motionless on the ground. So that's bad. She starts thinking about all those phone calls. There's no blood or anything is visible. But now she sees it. So she calls Ken, his brother, who lives right there at 955 and then calls 911 at 957.

I don't know why she called Ken first. Call 911, then tell Ken about it. But I don't know. She might have been just freaked out. You don't know what people do when they're freaked out. She called Ken. He's right there. I don't know.

What do I do? I mean, hey, stupid. Call 911. Oh, yeah. Sorry. A lot of people do that in these situations. Yeah, they do. You just called something familiar for help.

I just need help. I need help. And then they go, hey hey this guy's closer than the fucking fire department yeah is my name dr ken sweetberg no it's just ken sweetberg so you better go fucking call a doctor and not me so she calls uh yeah she calls 9-1-1 uh and she called ken she said because she thought that the emergency personnel wouldn't be able to find him without assistance so she said look i'm in the fucking woods with him so i'm gonna call 9-1-1 you look for him and then get him bring him back to the syrup camp there's a mess there's syrup everywhere it's just everywhere that would be amazing he's he's dead with his all lost too

much syrup he just lost too much syrup the man has syrup running through his veins mr buttersworth here so yeah she did she did that so the white earth tribal police officers show up a minute or two after 10 a.m so they get there fast yeah and then five minutes uh ken meets them at the residence and tells them that his brother uh they think he's dead and his body's about a thousand yards down the trail and the officers and Ken get into Ken's ATV their four wheeler there

and they drive out to the scene and the path was muddy and it was difficult to navigate it's April so the snow is melty in some places

and you know it's muddy it's real muddy and nasty they took some liberties had some fun spent some oh you fucking know it

he's like there's a jump over here one of you guys has to get off, though. You both can't do it. And then you can take turns. I'll take the other one over later. We'll find him in a sec. It's going to be great, though.

This hill's bitchin'. It's not going to be dead when we get there? Hop on, fucker. Let's go. So I think that's what happened there. Try to have some fun. Possibly. I don't know how you wouldn't.

So they end up going there. But yeah, it's very muddy. This April makes it difficult because in Minnesota, the snow has been covering the ground since October up here. So if it's finally stuff starting to melt, it really gets fucking muddy in these areas. Anywhere up north where there's a lot of snow has fallen in a winter. It's nasty in the spring. So in this area, they get there.

They find his wife, Leslie chad's wife screaming and crying and you know freaking out as a wife would do over her dead husband's body why'd you guys just get off there and high five that was awesome yeah well what the fuck man that wasn't cool at all uh she pointed to chad's body near the maple cooker near the so there's a cooker an evaporator and a condenser so far and traps you. You're right. This is a thing. How complicated is syruping? Oh, boy. I mean, Jesus Christ, man.

It's so long. It's too much. I don't know. I thought electronics and shit, that would be tech stuff is complicated. Syrup. Syrup, man. Silicon Valley is going to be all syrup in a couple of years, I feel like. I guess you got to boil it and condense it down.

Is that what it is? I don't fucking know. It evaporates some shit out so it thickens so weird i don't know you had pulled it out of a tree and ran it through a filter i don't have any idea let's get the what wood chunks and squirrel shit out of it i guess i don't know hit it with a coffee filter and move on yeah move on who cares gotta put it through a brita and you're fine so yeah she points down to him and this was used to process the maple syrup uh the officer was checking the checking chad for signs of life and he didn't at the time he didn't notice any blood either these people are not this whole scene is not

they're not real alert let's just say they see no blood and we'll find out there's fucking plenty of blood it's so now leslie tells the officer she went looking for Chad after hearing two gunshots and didn't get him on a cell phone, which makes sense to them. They then examine under Chad's coat and shirt, and they notice blood all down his right side. So the coat's keeping it in. Probably Gore-Tex. I'll bet it is. I bet it's Gore-Tex. It's one of those rubber jackets.

It's one of those, man. So a few minutes later later two of the medical people arrive here and uh when they get there everybody they find him he's uh chad's lying on his back clothed in what they call appropriate attire which is you know for the for the weather a winter jacket blue jeans insulated boots he's out syruping for the day here they uh observed that his face was covered by a hat he had a baseball cap on and it was kind of like pulled down over his face and i guess when he fell it kind of you know if it hit the brim it would cover your face so that's i feel like that's what

happened uh also noted that the they noted that the ground around him is thawing and extremely extremely muddy so they uh they identify him they they get a cell phone out of his left inside jacket pocket so his phone's still on him and uh they took possession of the phone by the way i got this guy's phone records it's fucking crazy when you look at a stranger's phone records it's crazy when you look at your own yeah look at the strangers and you're like what's he up to like it's amazing it's if you ever look at your own and you're like what's he up to like it's amazing it's if you ever look at your own you will be like what am i up to what the fuck how many phone calls am i making what is going on why am i doing who am i i'm a monster i thought i didn't like to talk to

people i'm talking to people all fucking day yeah mine is not like that at all mine is like you and like sarah if she goes out somewhere. Yeah. It's me again. And you again. Sarah checking in. Sarah saying what's up? Making for dinner.

Or what we're doing. What do you want to do later? I don't know. You want to go here? Sure. This phone never fucking quits. So yeah. So the they took the phone.

They check the time on the phone and all that. They noticed the last call received which i this isn't a missed call i guess this is an answered call would be at 7 46 a.m there and then they said the last call missed was from leslie at 9 47 which is what she said so they uh they then they ended up as they were doing this they're there for like three hours and people are walking around and i guess ken was going back and forth, the brother. And at one point, Ken says, what the hell is everybody doing standing around? Like, Ken took control of the crime scene.

These cops had no fucking idea what they were doing. He was not Detective Ken? No, no, no. He's not Dr. Ken. He's not Detective Ken. Dr. Ken, Detective MD. It's really weird. He's not.

He literally came up and said, what the hell is everybody doing standing around? Let's go, everybody. And they just jumped into action. He said, come on, let's go around here, fucking secure this. Let's go around the perimeter and look for tracks coming in here. You know, we'll go and look for like ATV tracks coming into the snow. Let's fucking do like police shit and figure out who killed my brother. Was he hired as the sheriff now?

And they all were like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, totally. We should do that. Did you? Yeah, that was that's regulated. You know, like we didn't what the fuck you know they just were just standing around looking at him for three hours going i don't know this is crazy right i think he's dead i don't know i think someone killed him look at this shit so wow not a lot of uh not a lot of they landed so they secured

the crime scene and they go back to the residence there. Not a lot of physical evidence in this crime scene. That's the thing here. It's you're in the woods in the homicide book. They always talk about the best place somebody could die for solving a crime is in a house. Yeah. You want someone dead in a house contained because it's contained. The elements don't get to it.

There's, you know, everything in a trap. There's carpet for things to get in for physical stuff. As much of a controlled environment as possible. The worst place you could do is find, like, just a dead guy in an alley. Because it's like, well, that's that. Because everything around here doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the crime scene. There's a bunch of shit from everything else. Who knows?

This crack pipe has nothing to do with the crime scene. It's been there for two days. Those tire truck from the delivery truck is parked over there. So, yeah. And the woods with a decaying environment also because over the course of the day, it gets up to about 37 degrees. Oh. Sweltering. But it's melting. That's the problem.

There's shit melting. So, as stuff is melting, if you have tracks, those are melting out. If you have anything. The evidence is literally melting away before your very eyes. Look at you. Oh, look at that. So there was four trails that led to and from this clearing. One to the east, one to the south, one to the northwest, and one to the north.

Now, on the northbound trail, an investigator said that he saw what he believed to be two tracks of footprints in the frost. One track going north and the other going south toward the murder scene. So that would be somebody coming and going. Exactly. So that makes sense. But no photographs of the footprints were taken. God damn it, Ken. You dropped the ball.

Yeah, well, there was a problem they in in one part they didn't know how to investigate this because they have a problem here they have woods yeah which there's a lot of places to hide they don't know if the person who did this is still around right and that's what they're thinking is like do we lock this down as a crime scene and treat it like that or do we treat it like it's like an active suspect environment where we need to like secure ourselves and be safe and go look for a person which are two totally different things yeah so they don't know what they're doing and on top of that it's like okay there's footprints in the frost uh yeah that's there and once they go back it's melted away and gone so they don't unless there was a crime scene guy with a camera right there to take the picture

god damn it wasn't happening so uh there was also crime scene guy with a camera right there to take the picture, it wasn't happening. So there was also technical problems, and the footprints disappeared as it got warmer in the day because that layer of frost melted off. So that's a problem here. Now, Ken and the Becker County deputy sheriff who arrived there, they drove around looking for tracks. They didn't find anything significant other than some evidence of other foot traffic that they believed to be from Chad. So they were looking for anything they could find. They also walked across a lake, which was still frozen, looking for tracks. Maybe they came from across a lake and went.

That's some dangerous shit, isn't it? It is. Yeah. In April. 37 degrees? Yeah. Luckily, though, in April, in a lake like this, it's probably so frozen that it's got a little light. 18 inches of fucking ice in it?

Yeah. It's probably a good thick layer of ice. Those fucking chick gets frozen. How about eight inches is probably about right, yeah? I don't know. You're asking the wrong guy. That sounded sexual, but that wasn't what I meant. What do you think, ladies? About eight inches?

Is that about right? Let me ask you, what's perfect for you? What do you like? Nobody wants to get hurt by it, but on the other hand, you want to know it's there. You know what I mean? That was it for you. That was going to work. I don't want it to sting.

I want it to feel nice. You know how it goes. But I want you to go, hey, I know Johnny was here. You know what I mean? That's what I'm talking about. I don't know how the fuck we got there. Sorry. No, sorry for you.

I'm the one who did it. I think I should. I'm the sorry who did it. I think I should. I'm the sorry one. I just did a whole character about it. You just made a passing joke like a fucking normal person. I just would like to know what's the same thickness for ice. For ice to go down. Say thickness would not be eight.

That would be very not safe. That's going to sting. That's going to need stitches. You're going to feel that. You've got to start a college fund for that. So they don't find all the shit, like I said. Now, the medical examiner comes, and they end up looking at Chad and everything like that. And they find that Chad was shot twice, once in the back of the right shoulder and once in the left butt cheek.

So as he was running the other way. Yeah. So he got shot twice here. The examiner determined that the gunshot wounds caused him to bleed to death within minutes. So the poor guy bled to death in the woods. Within minutes? Within minutes.

Oh, that's so long. Yeah, that's... Oh, horrific. Bleeding to death in the cold, muddy woods is... No thanks. ...a terrible way to go. That's awful. I mean, Mr. Buttersworth deserves better than that. He never thought that's how he was going out. Bleeding to death in the cold, muddy woods is a terrible way to go. That's awful.

I mean, Mr. Buttersworth deserves better than that. He never thought that's how he was going out. I don't like it at all. So, yeah, there wasn't any gunpowder around the wounds or anything like that, but they didn't think he was shot at very close range based on that. There's no evidence of it. They determined that the bullets removed came from a.30 caliber weapon. The examiner said he was reasonably certain that the bullets were Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silver Tips, but because of the damage to the bullets, he wasn't able to positively

identify or determine the exact weight of the bullets, the grain and all that shit. So he was a little bit, they're unsure of that. Ballistics are going to be impossible they're just they know sort of what he was shot with which that seems like a 30 caliber it seems like a popular hunting caliber i would think in the woods i mean yeah yeah yeah a lot of people might have that maybe the 30 out of six is a pretty big right like i mean it wouldn't be uncommon you wouldn't be like there's only one guy in the county with a 30 caliber it's tex mishanahan you know it's pretty common it's yeah there'd be a few people are running around with a 30 cal everybody's everybody's picking off deer with those that's what i mean it's a very common i assume there's deer running all over this fucking place bananas he's getting shot with a rifle that's that's that's not very not common but it's

common in our world in small town murder small town, you don't get a lot of someone coming up and bucking eight shots to the dome piece on anybody. It's mainly some weird trying to shoot at a rifle with them from eight feet away in the front yard where they jump back and forth behind a Geo Metro to recover. It's very strange, everything we've covered here. So Jesse Fane, they interviewed him. It's very strange, everything we cover here. So Jesse Fane, they interviewed him. Jesse Fane says that he got a call from work at about 10 o'clock to tell him that Chad had been shot.

And after he received the call, he rushed home to find out Chad was dead. And that day, he was planning to leave work early to join the Serapin party. And people are leaving work early for this. I can't believe this. Everyone leave work. The Wolf Show is on and then we're syruping. So everyone put it on their calendars. I don't leave work for my kids fucking award ceremony. This is a big day.

Bananas. Well, you've never been asked to syrup, though, Jimmy. I told you we're syruping tomorrow. I'm sorry, but you're calling in. That's all there is to it. So, you know. So according to Jesse, he had been at the Maple site. Now they're calling it a Maple site instead of a syrup and camp.

It's a syrup and camp, a Maple site. I'm very confused. He'd been there the previous night. And afterwards, Chad, he and Chad went to Ken's house for a short visit. And he said, because they asked him, did you observe? They're asking everybody, did you observe Chad? I don't have any kind of tension with anybody and because there's around him there's 11 other people with all the the kids and his brother and everybody's family there's in this small area there's a bunch

of people so those are the obvious people they're going to look at first there's a family dynamic right as we've you know cover on the show that's what it often is that's what it is that's suspects number one through in this case 37 37 38 whatever so uh jesse says he observed no tension between ken and chad during the visit they were amiable and getting along just fine he also recalls having a conversation with chad a week or so before about uh the construction business apparently chad was in a construction business with a friend of his named Kenneth Anderson. I got another Ken. Another Ken. And according to Jesse, Chad planned to stop working with this Anderson guy.

And they were just talking about general. I'm not going to do the construction thing with him anymore. I'm going to concentrate more on my syrup and foraging for berries or whatever the hell else you do out there. Yeah, exactly. So they talked to Ken Swedeberg who's the brother and uh he tells everybody that the last time he saw chad was at his house the night before with him and jesse which is all checking out he said they had no disagreements during the meeting everything was fine he uh does acknowledge that he and chad have had conflicts in the past as brothers do they have he said, but their relationship had been good lately.

And, you know, they've had no beef in a long time. Everything's been fine. He said that, Ken said on the day that Chad died that Ken woke up around 7.15, went outside to his truck to... Okay. Everybody's...

No one does anything normal here. No one's like, he got up, he had a cup of coffee you know he fucking looked at his phone for a while and then he went outside there's never a moment on this show that i get more excited when you go he went out to this too and then you go okay it's just one of those where i know this is about to get fun i can't just say it in a sentence like it's normal that's why it has to be prefaced with something. He woke up around 7.15 and immediately went outside to his truck

to stir some corn syrup that he fed his bees. You gotta stir it? He's got a corn syrup jar of stuff. A slurry of some corn syrup mixture that he immediately upon waking up needs to go outside in the

cold to stir so he can feed it to his bees because he has bees bees and syrup honey and fucking syrup and what the fuck is happening a lot of shit to drizzle on what are you people doing up there is all you care about sticky substances to go atop breakfast foods the fuck is wrong with you people what's happening go atop breakfast foods the fuck is wrong with you people what's happening in rural minnesota that bee farming is a motherfucker though my friend does it in idaho and it is crazy oh they're nuts yeah they're crazy i would never want to do that we need bees scientifically so people raise bees good shit keep them going doing it and uh don't do weird shit so we have to talk about it yeah stay in your weird things and use your smoke and put your mask on.

And I don't know what the hell you guys are doing. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx. And I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max,

starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly.

And our show is part true crime, part spooky, andbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar.

And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and add free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts he used a drill with a paint mixer attached to stir the syrup that's what you gotta that's how so it's gotta be a lot of syrup we're not talking about like a like a pot like you're boiling a pound of macaroni or something. This is like, he's kind of a vac.

You can't take like a soup ladle to stir that. That's what I mean, yeah. He's stirring like concrete. Yeah, this isn't even like one of those outboard motors you cook with. One of those little, like you bang some tomatoes out from the can. Nothing like that. He had a drill with a paint mixer. He's not fucking around.

I guess his boat still had the trolling motor on. Oh, you fucking know. He was just going to dip that in there. He's like, that's about a five horsepower. I'm going to kick it up to medium here. We're going to troll these small mouth bass here. So after stirring the syrup, Jesus Christ, he and his wife's son Thomas and his daughter, they all got on the bus at 7.40 a.m.

I'm sorry, not his wife, but his wife's son and his daughter both get on the bus and go at 7.40 a.m. to school. Got it. Now, he thought it was odd that Thomas was on time for the bus because he was always running late, which was a thing that he said was weird because he was always running late. which was a thing that he said it was weird because he was always running late eventually though he went back in the house and began okay he began to work on the pollen patties that he was making for his bees what i don't know i'm learning so much today apparently you make pollen patties for your bees so does that mean you got

to go harvest that shit out of like daisies or something? Apparently you mix up some stuff and then you make fucking patties. Yeah. I guess like burgers and you put them. I don't know what he's doing. It's a bee burger. A bee burger.

But between the syruping and the evaporating and the condensing and the, and the bad patties and the pollen, there's a corn syrup. They are busy as fuck. Very busy people doing nothing productive. No one's building a house or running a business. But I guess this is a business. I don't fucking know, I suppose.

It's a business, right? I imagine. I mean, bees make a shitload of money. They make money, and I guess there's probably a demand for syrup. I don't fucking know. I'm sure some weird organic syrup would probably sell for a fortune. I don't know what kind of money syrup makes. I don't know. I'm out of there. I'm out some weird organic syrup would probably sell for a fortune. I don't know what kind of money syrup makes. I don't know.

I'm out of there. I'm out of that game. Diane Keaton did that in that movie that time in the 80s. Which one? She made baby food. Never mind. Okay. Same thing.

Same shit. I think there was syrup involved. I don't know. She moved to Vermont. It was one of those 80s movies where a yuppie career person just cares about their career. Now they're stuck with this baby what do i do they move to the you know middle of nowhere and they're so miserable and how do you change diapers and then they end up that horse shit what a plot

i mean michael keaton did the same goddamn movie just as a dad he didn't move to vermont to make baby food though like this fucking lady but he had to figure out how to she became famous yeah you know really this was her big thing yeah she was just pushing so hard for success and all she had to do was take this baby to vermont and then just fucking you know dig into that life and then she'd finally be famous and successful because you know that's how it works i love that that Mr. Dad was like, Mr. Mom, Mr. Dad would be like, for real. Mr. Dad, it's a knockoff movie. It stars like somebody you've never heard of. Like Todd Greaton or something.

Yeah, Mr. Dad, how you doing? And he's holding the baby up with the blower in the bathroom. And he's like, yeah, see, look at that. I'm washing his ass. All right. It's not as good. Mr. Mom was just, yeah, God god damn it i can't think of the title now it's mr mom it's just showing how dumb we are and we can't do it look at that oh god oh isn't

it hilarious that he tried he fed the baby chili of course it was gonna shit everywhere duh good lord who feeds a baby chili unbelievable i love that movie i love michael keaton he's one of the greatest actors i just love him comedically. So good. He's the funniest son of a bitch. He just gets me every time. So anyway here. So yeah, he gets on the bus.

He's got bee pollen patties here. Jesus Christ. At around 845, his wife Lisa left to take their daughter to an appointment at the school. Some kind of appointment. After his wife left, he went outside and did some work in his shop. He also tied down his truck so he could feed his bees. Tied it down.

I don't know if the collective wings of all the bees will make his truck actually lift from the ground. You got cornmeal? We will fuck your truck up. They're the killer bees. They're the Africanized ones from the 90s that were coming for swarms. Yeah.

That's what happened here. I don't know what happened, but apparently you have to tie your truck down so you can feed your bees. So next time you feed your bees, fucking remember that, Jimmy. I know you're always losing your truck over that shit. So after that, he went back to his house to make sandwiches. Not for the bees. No?

People sandwiches. Okay. He just made people sandwiches i'm expecting b exam like b sandwiches all day he's just serving them food making shit he's like a short order cooking there the little rotary thing with the tickets on it god damn it another fucking patty melt jesus christ fine all these bees they're so picky jesus christ can you guys all eat at once? So, yeah, he makes sandwiches.

Eventually, Leslie called him and told him to come to the Maple site because something's wrong with Chad. He drove his four-wheeler to the site. So that's his deal. He said at the site, he took the phone away from Leslie and talked to 911 because she was not having a good time. Then he met police on the four-wheeler and did the perimeter and said what the fuck he what he is doing and all that ken seems to be in control of shit uh leslie now was interviewed and uh they interviewed her and uh that's when they learn about that her and chad had gotten married but their family doesn't know about it his family doesn't know about it because they don't like her uh leslie also said that ken and chad the brothers had b had a b business together and that ken ripped chad off in the b business this b business is shady it is

it's cutthroat it's kind of like on the wire and you got like you know you got prop joe is is you know they got they need the product so they got to sell prop joe's product and you know they're coming in and he was trying to say, and he got ripped. Never mind. Did you just try to compare bees to fucking turf wars and drugs? Whether it's fucking Heron or bees, you know what? You've got territory, you've got a product, and you're slinging it. Bees are territorial.

I assume bees are legal is the only difference, but still though, I feel like my bees are better than his bees. It's like drugs. Like, yo, they step on their shit way more than we do. My shit's in its purest form. Wow. Broken down from the molten rocks boy in his purest form. Get some gravedigger on that ass, that's right.

Fine, you can bring up Tim McGraw, bring up Gravediggers. Let's do this shit. I like it. I'll take mine in a fight. Anyway, so yeah, she says that Ken ripped Chad off in the bee business and Chad was not fucking happy about it. And also, recently, Ken tricked chad out of land uh that was in their

family or something by having him unknowingly sign a quick claim deed he lied to him and told him he was signing something else so he ken had screwed chad over in the b business and and fucking scammed him out of land so that's what leslie's saying like hey everything is not perfect with ken don't let him tell you that the cops sighed i and ken that's the thing and also leslie says in addition to all of that there was also conflicts within his their own household he said you know that there was beef there and he also had beefs in the in our house like shit was you know she said all my family members are here uh they said she said that for the most part, Chad was cool about the living arrangements, and he's a pretty easygoing guy.

He's a maple man. Right. The maple men are known for their... You can't be... That's the thing. You can't even pour syrup quickly. Right. You can't be a heist.

I couldn't do syrup, because I'd be like, will you fucking hurry up already? It would just lose my mind. It seems like you have to have patience. It's got to pour out slow. And then you have to cook it and evaporate. You watch it go through the lines coming out of the tree. Yeah. Condense it and then stare at it longingly in the dew light.

That's what ends up happening. So, yeah, he's got to be a patient guy. So they said he was generally patient. But on occasion, he would tell her, I just want everybody to fucking move out. I just want to live in peace for two seconds. You know, like the Wolfman does. If you're jealous of the Wolf guy, you know, like your life is. Shit at home ain't right.

Shit is not perfect here. She says, other than Ken, she couldn't think of another person who would want to harm Chad. Other than Ken, because just to get him out of the picture for whatever Chad would try to claim or sue Ken for. She suggested that the investigators speak with a friend of his that would know better than her what her husband, you know, anybody who might

have beef with her husband, talk to Kenneth Eugene Anderson. Talk to this guy. And we've brought his name up before. There's another Ken. The other Ken. We'll call him Kenneth to to differentiate here kenneth anderson here with an e although that's fucked up and the newspaper and the court documents one is it's messed up so like the guy that played for the fucking the magic every time i said was no that wasn't that wasn't the royals played for the royals jimmy the expo crime and sports driver jimmy looked at me

like i don't get it oh yeah that's the other show never mind we're not in that show yeah okay so uh that's fucking great so they speak to kenneth anderson here a few days after the death uh they talk to him they say he tells him he tells investigators him and chad grew up together and a few people that they talk to describe them as best friends from like because they've known each other since childhood and they still hang out if you've known someone since other since childhood and they still hang out. If you've known someone since you're 10 and you still hang out with them in your 30s, you just go, that's my I guess that's my best friend. I don't know.

I've known my brother. Yeah. You call him all kinds of. Yeah. It's just whatever. They're very close. They're very close. Kenneth was a pallbearer at the funeral.

So he's close. The family, everybody knows he's close. It's known. Unlike Chad's wife. They know that Ken's close. They know that ken's close to him they know that kenneth is close to him unlike the wife where they don't know his his wife isn't that close yeah they just think what a nice guy letting that whole family live there with no sexual fucking motivation what an amazing man he is come live in the woods in my house everybody no who you got a

son with how many kids your sister needs a a place, too? We got room. Come on in. And the family's like, as long as you don't marry her, it's fine. Yeah, just don't marry her. Her son's your age. So on August 17th, back a little bit, August 17th, 2006, because we're in April of 2007. He talks about how there's an issue here. He doesn't talk about this, but they find out. While Chad and Kenneth Anderson were working in a building in Rousseau County, they were constructing a pole building.

A pole building. What the fuck is a pole? What is any? I don't understand anything in this episode. A pole building. And there was a reported theft of an all-terrain vehicle. So somebody stole an ATV from the residence that they were working at there. vehicle so that somebody stole an atv from the residence that they were working at there so anderson ends up later on being charged with felony theft for taking this atv from this

residence there now at some point kenneth finally told chad okay he confessed and said i took the fucking atv because they were asking chad about it and he's like i don't know anything about it i don't know what you're talking about and so finally kenneth they were like the cops were asking them finally kenneth said look dude i took it that's what's going on here so uh yeah so uh he said that uh that anderson and his step-nephew had stolen the atv and they the uh they end up the sheriff's department in november of 2006 end up finding the stolen atv behind chad's residence oh no and uh the the uh investigation revealed that this stolen atv was now registered to kenneth anderson's mother what so they stole an atv and then registered it to kenneth anderson's mother that's dumb that which is the stupidest

thing you could do yeah you don't steal something then register it to yourself i won't register it to me you don't register it at fucking all. I'll register it to my mom. They'll never find me that way. They'll think my mom, they'll think a 65-year-old lady stole an ATV and registered it in her own name. Well, now you're going to get her arrested, you dipshit. So, yeah. Apparently, so the police found this ATV there. And so they went to Chad and said, excuse me, this is on your property.

And he denied any knowledge of it. This is on your property. And he denied any knowledge of it. And he called Kenneth Anderson while an investigator was listening in and then handed the phone to the investigator. And they end up charging because he basically got him to confess to doing it because he didn't want to fucking go to jail for it. So Kenneth was charged with the theft of the ATV. And Chad was super fucking unhappy that he did that, that he ditched it on his resident

and his property. Basically like, hey, if someone's going to get arrested, it's him. Asshole. Asshole. Well, this is nothing new for Kenneth. Let's talk about Kenneth's record a little bit here. Oh, boy. Because it goes back quite a ways, and he's got quite a bunch of shit happening here.

He's born in 71, so this starts when he's about 20 years old. Starts in 1991, where he's arrested and convicted of theft by swindle whoa so he that's fascinating talk somebody out of something uh also yeah that's i guess what they're doing hey my egyptian good uh also uh defrauding an insurer at that point and that might have been the same thing because the court date was the same day so that those are all together uh the 1999 he's arrested for writing a bad check to a market for 60 and 24 cents so that's pretty sad he's right there he ends up pleading guilty to that now let's talk about this uh after this in 2001 is when the duis pile up here we have one here which is his second dui over 0.10 yeah the blood alcohol content within 15 years he had he gets here this is in 2001 uh now he also this is fucking crazy at the

same time he gets a second over 1.10 within 12 hours whoa I don't know how the fuck you do that. He got out and went drinking. He got two fucking Dewey's in 12 hours. Unbelievable. That's amazing. Yeah. First of all, to get out in 12 hours is pretty fucking remarkable.

Like, that's a small town. I guess they don't have a lot going on in the court. You get arrested at midnight. They process you. You're at court at 8 a.m. You make bail at 10. You're out. You're drinking.

And by fucking noon, they're busting you again. Well, I mean, you got problems. You got shit to drink about. Yeah. You don't get in the goddamn car, though. Take that shit home with you. Learn it. So, yeah, he does that.

That's not terrific, obviously. He ends up being convicted of the second DUI within 15 years. And they kind of roll those all into one. But he's got some DUI issues. So that's three duis were in one court hearing in 2001 uh there that he had to deal with also in that uh later on that year is failure to comply with an order i think it was a probationary thing that he wouldn't comply with i mean he could think it was one of the uh the breathalyzer

things in your car you're supposed to have and he didn't put it in well i mean he doesn't comply at all they told him don't drink and drive yeah he went and did it just fine he's not thinking at all comply he doesn't know how comply what now what what pray tell what what does comply mean no also uh open container so he's drinking in the car which is always smart when you're got a bunch of dy's you want to do that uh next is 2003 he is arrested for failure to display registration on an atv apparently he had an atv and he was driving on the road with no registration and that ends up happening uh the next year 2004 he i guess it's some probationary or not a probationary he's pulled over and refuses to take a drug test refuses to take a blood test

he would only do the breathalyzer and they wanted to test his blood and he wouldn't do it so they charge him with driving with impaired driving under the influence and no blood alcohol though he was on on pills this time oh they think so That's that's what they have him there. He's convicted of that. Also, also driving later on, driving after cancellation of his license. He gets arrested for it because once he's out after that, he is driving again with just no license. He wasn't drunk that time. So good for him. Oh, wait.

No, he was. He was drunk. Sorry. Just kidding. What do we think? He was driving sober. No, he's so what gets out of jail license is canceled due to dui so he gets arrested for again uh juices

alcohol concentration over 0.1 0.08 and it's you know within a couple years so uh yeah he's fucked oh by the way a few months later guess what he gets another fucking dui jesus man another influence of alcohol dwi this is driving it while impaired convicted of this as well so he is just a fucking pile of dw and duis and scams and schemes and shit going on he's just an unseemly character right this guy he's an unseemly you wouldn't trust him around your syrup. No. He doesn't learn. And he loves drinking. That's the thing. Yeah. Favorite.

It's all. Loves it. Loves it. So Ken, or I'm sorry, Chad, Chad Sweetberg, our dead guy here, he had decided that he did not want to continue working with Kenneth Anderson, you know, because he's trying to set him up for stolen ATVs and shit. And he's drunk all day. And he's drunk and driving around.

atvs and shit drunk all day and he's drunk and driving around and uh chad and uh chad and uh um i'm sorry chad and his wife agreed that chad would look for a different job he wouldn't work with him anymore now uh chad told his told his stepson that uh that he was going to stop working with with ken and just get another job and about a week before he died he also decided not to participate in a business with anderson oh kenneth anderson wanted chad to go into the leeching business with him okay yeah so bees syrup and leeches now we have um leeching he wanted to get a bunch of leeches and have a business based on that he wanted to go like farm leeches yeah and then like breed them buy them and breed them and have them do leech stuff what do you how do you do that what century is it again oh cell phones i forgot what without the cell phones what fucking century is this in

without cell phones and st or atvs we're talking this happened in 1885 what is fucking happening here jesus christ even get i mean the only way i know i get leeches is you pass out in a rowboat ATVs. We're talking this happened in 1885. What is fucking happening here? Jesus Christ. The only way I know I get legions is you pass out in a rowboat. The Great Outdoors. You wake up with Dan Aykroyd and you go, oh Jesus, we're all over it. Everybody's pointing at each other. It's on your face. It's on your face. If you try to find a dead body

that's what happens too, as in Stand By Me. You get them in your nutsack. That's so gross. That was bad stuff. They are ugly. They're nasty. I can't believe that somebody wants to grow those they have certain uses though medically now yeah i i read in in russia the leech the leeching is a huge deal in russian medicine at the moment which kind of doesn't surprise me over there i feel like it's just like we put on you because you got it but i have a hangnail we put on your face okay but they have like i can't remember 10 million leeches a year are are sold in russia for medical purposes so i don't know if this is a russian

leech pipeline that he's trying to start or what's going on i tried to do i tried to research leeching a little bit but it's there's not a lot out there, I've got to be honest with you. So Kenneth used his cell phone the morning of Chad's death to call Chad at 7.46 a.m. He told police that he called Chad to look for a ride because he needed to go to Fargo to apply for a loan. We'll talk about this. His whole day was applying for bank loans to get leeches. He went around to people that took a shower in the morning, put dress clothes on, got

in a car, went to work, and got out and sat behind a desk. And he said, I'd like to borrow a bunch of money so I can buy a shitload of leeches. And they said, pardon? He said, leeches. I'm going to buy a shitload. No, that's your collateral, leeches. Yeah, if I don't pay it back, just come get my leeches. And they were like, hmm.

What collateral you got? I'm going to have leeches. I'm going to have a lot of leeches. A shitload of them. back just come get my leeches and they're like hmm what collateral you got i'm gonna have leeches i'm gonna have a lot of shitload of them but that depends on you right there sir you signed that little paper tim hand me those leech money problem is i don't have leeches yet see my problem here if i have leeches i can get more leeches that's how this works this is terrible this is amazing so yeah he's he's going to Fargo to apply for a loan. But Chad declined because he said that he was going with Al Baker to go syrup in that morning. So that's what ended up happening there. Kenneth Anderson calls Albert Baker right after that at 752 a.m.

And asked Baker to stop on his way to Chad's to look at a tank that he wanted to use to store leeches. They just go in a tank that's what it is i don't know if it's a special leech tank pile them all in there i'm at the end of my they live i am at the end of my rural rope right now i don't fucking have any idea what this is when i realize i'm sheltered, I guess. I don't know. I don't know things. You know, I'm happy. I don't want to know that. That seems disgusting. I would think you put them in a fish tank. I don't fucking know.

But it's a tank. I don't know how big it is. Do you put dirt in there and they live underground? What do they do? Aren't they in the water right here? I imagine they're in the water. Great outdoors. It's the water.

And, you know, stand by me. Water. Swamp. Swampy areas. Swamp. That's why they're gross because they're in the shit area growing mud and shit grossness so yeah so he wanted to use this to store the leeches uh al said albert baker said he will he'll stop by and look over the tank

because he's that kind of guy yeah you need a tank checked for any syrup bees leeches i'm your fucking guy syrup and bees and leeches oh my what the fuck is happening here so albert said though i gotta stop and buy some groceries first because i'm responsible for the syrup party's lunch this day okay literally that's that was the reason why he was responsible for making sandwiches for the syrup party's lunch this old man got it so uh kenneth said that baker was supposed to be at his house by 8 30 but albert said that kenneth knew that albert needed to go to wab uh wabon to get groceries first and that kenneth did not set any specific time that he was supposed to be there he's like he just said come

by before you go to chad's he didn't say when you had to be here so uh kenneth told police that he had a tax preparer's appointment at 9 or 9 30 he can't do his own what the fuck could he possibly be doing with his finances that he can't do his own i do my own tax you do your taxes i did them i did my taxes this year and we have weird stuff in different states and all sorts of i did my fucking taxes what is selling a couple of leeches and five construction jobs you need a tax preparer for the hell is this guy doing the business i imagine he's writing off the gas writing off he's not you think he went down and filed for an llc i think maybe i don't think so no i don't think he can probably spell llc he asked to be paid in leeches that's not legal tender that's not you can't do you can't

claim i i made 40 000 leeches last year that that's not an income they don't know how to tax that what do you owe them leech parts you owe us 13 13 leeches we'd like to have lots of them this shit is crazy so he had a tax appointment there he said he also had an appointment with a banker at 11 o'clock and that he left he left for the appointments between 8 30 and 9 a.m but first called his cousin uh about 9 17 a.m a.m to ask for a ride to fargo and kenneth's cousin agreed to drive him to fargo at 9 30 a.m so anderson again contacted his cousin while his cousin was on the way and asked his cousin to meet him at his cousin while his cousin was on the way and asked his cousin to meet him at his sister's house which was on the way to his house it was actually before his

house anderson's cousin says she was says she would and he says he would and then he and anderson left uh to meet with anderson's tax preparer at that point so he was uh at nine, somewhere past 934. At that point, he's seen with people. He's at his sister's house, and other people are around. So before that, we don't really have any accounting for where Kenneth Anderson is, other than his phone calls and his frantically preparing his tax documents, which obviously are just not in order. It's a disarray.

Completely. So Anderson arrived at his tax preparers between 9.45 and 10. So his appointment was not at 9 or 9.30, as he claimed, but rather it was 2 o'clock in the a.m., but he had it fucked up. They said that it was very common for him to arrive either very, very early or very, very late for appointments. Kind of like people who are so drunk they can't keep track of what they're doing. You know, like an alcoholic. You know, like an alcoholic.

You know, like an alcoholic who's like, I know I have to do my tax thing. I think it's at nine and it's at two. Or I think it's at two and it's at fucking nine. So it's one or the other. He doesn't know. But that's common for him in all appointments, apparently. He met his tax preparer

and then he went to Moorhead to attempt to obtain a loan loan he didn't have an appointment like he told police he did so that was something that was a lie but he was supposed to meet with the branch manager of a of a financial and he was supposed to meet with the bank branch manager manager the day before and never came so he's a day late for this one so he was meeting with the branch manager here and his cell phone rang and he answered it and he told uh this was this day he told the branch manager that his business partner had just been shot and he had to leave oh no so this was the call he got about chad but when he returned to his cousin who was in the vehicle kenneth told him that chad's brother ken had been shot so it's weird then he has a different story for his cousin he said chad's brother ken had been shot so it's weird then he has a different story for his cousin

he said chad's brother got shot so that was very odd because he just told the branch manager that his business partner got shot he's never been in business with ken with ken swedeberg only with chad swedeberg so he tells police that his nephew told him that ken swedeberg had been shot and that he called the second time shortly after and told kenneth that ken swedeberg was dead so his cousin was mixed up here so at this point anderson's niece said that she only spoke to anderson once though and she told him that chad had been shot not ken so all of this all of his statements are inconsistent with what everybody else says a lot of miscommunication happening yeah and it all seems to be on him yeah everybody else has their story straight so on the day of of chad's funeral uh kenneth anderson opened a bank account and told

the bank manager another story about what happened the day of the murder he said that uh that kenneth had stopped by his house uh that he stopped by chad's house to see if chad wanted to go to South Dakota to buy leech traps. And he said that he told the bank person that. So he said that now he puts himself at the scene of the murder that morning with somebody else. So he's told a million different things. And now they talk about the year before, September of 2006 chad had bought kenneth a gun it's a tika t3 light 300 winchester short magnum rifle okay 30 caliber deal here uh and a uh and a nikon buckmaster rifle scope at reed sporting goods store in walker minnesota i don't know what that gun is but 300 is a uh 300 blackout maybe where it's like

a 30 30 caliber bullet uh wedged in a 556 shell yeah it beats the shit out of me that it's a rifle it'll kill shit in the woods i assume that's what i'm assuming those are like an ar looking weapon okay like some like yeah combat looking shit yeah so uh yeah so police asked kenneth about the rifle that uh and kenneth said that ch Chad had traded it in for two muzzleloaders then, in November. So he said, yeah, I don't have those rifles. So I doubt it was an AR then, because you rarely trade that in for muzzleloaders. Yeah, well, I mean, if they were old-school black powder muzzleloaders, those are worth a shitload of money. The people that are into that, I know people that have those like those old-timey they restore those yeah they make a if you can restore those you make a fortune restoring

black powder rifles from the 1800s and shit so anyway uh the the tikka or tikka whatever it is rifle that chad bought for anderson was found uh later that day though and we'll talk about this it was found later that day concealed under the insulation of an outbuilding near kenneth anderson's house that's weird that's weird and his palm for kenneth anderson's palm print was on the gun also so this is interesting they also they they uh anderson they say acted suspiciously when they went to look through his house they had a search warrant and uh they didn't when they got there though this is weird they didn't initially tell kenneth that they had a search warrant and they asked him if they could search the house just to

see what he would do you know see if he would go no fuck no and they'd be like well we have a warrant we're going to search anyway but just to see his reaction to it i don't know if you're the legalities of that or if you're supposed to say you and you have a fucking warrant uh but he consented to it kenneth anderson said yeah go ahead look around. That's fine. So he told the investigators when he owned the gun, the Tika, he used 150 grain ammunition with a special tip. They asked him if he fired the gun ever. And he said that he did. And he brought investigators to two different areas on his property that he had fired the gun, he said. He gave them consent to search the house.

Prior to giving consent, though, he made what they called special conditions on how they were allowed to search which you can't control a police search like you might think you can he said that he didn't want quote a bunch of marked squad cars coming down while he was conducting his leeching business like there's just a fucking line like he's got like a like like he's got a food truck with just an endless line of people getting sandwiches. How many people are coming over for leeches? He's like, you guys got to keep it down. The leeches are sleeping. You don't understand.

Yeah. You're going to disturb them and fucks them all up. They're not worth as much if they're all stressed out. He didn't want to disturb the traffic of his leeching business, which is fucking hilarious. Conducting his leeching. I got leeches to conduct here. I need some time. So they said, sure, no problem. We'll steer clear of all your leeching and everything here.

So he also offered, he said that, he offered that, he said, you can follow me around in the morning, make sure I'm not doing anything. I'm fine. You know, you're not, he was trying to say I'm not suspicious. Now, there was an officer john

macarthur was assigned to kind of hang out with him around the house and he said that uh kenneth quote reeked of booze yeah which not surprising sounds like par for the course he's an alcoholic he was sweating and starting to pace back and forth eventually he ran out of the barn and started to dry heave but nothing came out you know like if you're an alcoholic and you haven't drank yet that morning, that's kind of what happens. So, yeah, he's dry heaving. He's got all this shit going on. And they said that that was repeated at least three times where he's sweating and pacing

and dry heaving and coming back and reeking of like night before booze. Yeah. Kenneth is a mess. He's a fucking mess. That's a disgusting state of affairs yeah just amid that dry heat oh god that feeling is horrific like that yeah i saw the nothing's there right and you're cold but then there's water pouring down your face just your insides are coming out squeezing together now this police officer said he didn't know if kenneth was drunk

but he didn't think so because he probably wouldn't be. He probably have something to throw up, probably, if he was drunk. One of those things. He's probably not drunk is the problem. The issue here. So they proceeded to search the outbuildings. And as they do this, this is when Kenneth Anderson becomes angry and starts getting all angry. And his brother, Frank, then he starts yelling that my brother Frank

owns these buildings and this isn't my shit and you have to, Frank doesn't want you searching the buildings and you have to get his permission and this isn't mine. And Frank, though, had only said that he didn't want his house searched. He didn't say anything about those buildings.

He just said he can't search my house. So the officer said that and then after that a bunch more officers uh came down well yeah and that's when he really freaked out he's like this is just what i asked for you now you got all these cops here this is bullshit and at this point they go well we have a search warrant so what you're telling us you are allowing us to do doesn't even fucking matter we want we can do whatever we want so get over there and fuck off which they probably should just told him that to begin with but they were trying to see if they could get him to do anything that would incriminate him and incriminate himself or just give a clue

basically so i don't know it's trying to do police work i guess so they end up doing that this is when he gets super fucking pissed uh super pissed at this point point, he says he's leaving, and he leaves and goes to Grand Forks. He takes the fuck off. Bye, I'm leaving, officers. Fine, you can search all you want. You don't have an arrest warrant for me. I'm fucking out of here.

So he takes off there. The officers search the barn. They discover two guns, the Tikka, like we said before, and a.22 caliber pump action gun there. And the Tikka was found hidden in the rafters of the barn under some insulation. And this barn was owned by his brother Frank, and it didn't have a scope with it. Now, the firearms examiner test fired the Tikka rifle found in the building and concluded that because of the absence of the rifling, it wasn't possible to do the ballistics match on this gun.

But he said that the bullets removed from the body uh they could have fired that gun could have fired the bullets basically they're the same similarity but not a ballistic match and nothing that's forensically right damning but it's the same type of gun yeah so uh they talked to some other people here and they want to get they want to know what they're dealing with here so they talk more to jesse fane his stepson right and uh his three years younger stepson right you know his buddy his stepbrother so he says quote i got along with chad better than anyone else i've gotten along with we were just friends we did everything together hunted fishing hunted fished wild riced leached wow he used wild rice as a verb we wild riced together he just said well

you can buy online wild rice here we wild riced and leached together so they're fine and fucking leeches too and when you when everyone obsessed with leeches and rice in this fucking town when rice grows do you like have to pick each kernel off the fucking plant or do you like very tedious shake it into a bucket it's very tedious each stock grows one grain of rice on the top and you have to pick it each off each time it's very tedious it's a real nightmare yeah it's why they they it's why the chinese are known as such a patient people it's because they can they do that it's very impressive so these guys get out there hunted fished wild riced and leached.

That's a fucking quote. That's a direct quote from this man. Wow. He said that he wasn't so fond of Kenneth Anderson, though. He says that Jesse says that he was once in a hunting party with Anderson, and he remembers Anderson visiting the maple syrup camp at least once in the past year to see how things were going. He says that he talked to Chad on the phone that day, on the day he bought that gun, the Tikka 300 Winchester, and he said that it was at Anderson.

He bought it at Reed's Sporting Goods store in Walker, like he said. He said that Anderson paid for it, but Chad purchased it because Anderson didn't have a valid driver's license. He's got a million fucking DUIs. So he says that Jesse also testifies that about a week before Chad's death, Chad decided to quit the construction business and told him about it. He says, quote, he had a friend and a contractor in Fargo that he worked with who had a house that had to be effaced with stucco. It would have brought about $10,000 for Chad,

and he had three or four houses after that lined up to a face. Okay. So Chad had a whole other thing going on. Yeah. Or he was going to make some more dough and all that shit. So they decide to arrest Ken. They go get Ken. He ends up being in North Dakota when they go find him, which isn't that far away.

It's not like he ran 10 states over. It's a half hour. So he ran to North Dakota. They extradite him back. That's another charge he's gotota they extradite him back that's another charge he's got is an extradition thing so he's arrested and they decide to charge him with first degree premeditated murder oh they've got some evidence so they're going kind of so kind of so first degree they're going premeditated and everything they're going right for the fucking

deal here they're going for everything uh right away he wants to challenge the search warrant which because he says they didn't he argues that uh they should have they should suppress the evidence found on this property he says there was material misrepresentations and omissions of fact in the search warrant application and that without these misrepresentations and omissions of fact the application did not supply probable cause. He didn't say that. I assume his lawyers did. The state argues that the contested representations and omissions are not material because even when the contested representations are put aside, the omissions are included. The application still supplied probable cause to search there. probable cause to search there.

So the district court ends up denying his motion to suppress, saying that it's valid because the misrepresentations were not material. It's all good. So most of the alleged misrepresentation and omissions in the search warrant application center around statements made about different weapons that he owned. Like the search warrant said that his step-nephew sold him a Tika brand 300 short mag bolt action rifle before it was drafted. However, it did not include the application for a warrant that the Tika rifle was sold to him by his step.

So they're like saying, well, they said this exact gun, but they didn't say how he got it correctly. Like they said he got it from here, but he actually got it from there, even though it's the gun they were looking for either way no matter where the fuck it came from so that's what they said that's not important the point is they're looking for that gun where he got it isn't the point the point is they thought he had it if he had it at the time it doesn't fucking matter where he got it exactly uh search warrant application also stated that a taxidermist told an officer that anderson told the taxidermist that he shot a shot a fisher like a fisherman i don't know what the hell a fisher is he shot a fisher with a 300

short mag rifle but i don't know i don't know what that is is that an animal i don't know maybe maybe it's a bear and they're like you know that that fisher he goes and pulls them out of the water and eats them like grapes but that's what i would do because i would not fucking say what i'm trying to say yeah jesus christ oh but i guess the taxidermist said that he shot it with a different caliber so he's saying that those were conflict but that wasn't even in the search warrant application but this is what he's bringing up is why you should keep this out of out of court Okay. Yeah, a bunch of shit about the application. He's really, really pissed about this application.

Boy, that is the bane of his existence here. That's the cornerstone of his argument. That's the cornerstone of his argument. He goes on and on and on. It says that he goes on about statements like, it says that Jesse remembers Chad telling Ken that he wanted Chad to purchase a rifle for him. But then he said that it didn't happen on this date, but on this date.

So then the search warrant's invalid because eight months ago, the guy got a date wrong of what day he bought the gun. It's stupid. It's very, very stupid here. So they said they talk about an elk hunting trip with the gun or some shit. It's really pretty fucking pointless. A bunch of arguments on just the search warrant shit. They say they end up saying that the other. Oh, that's the other thing.

The footprints here. They talk about how the he argues that the search warrant application improperly characterized the evidence found by Ken Swedenberg and the police officer saying that that they found possible evidence of foot traffic and later referring to possible footprints discovered by this captain uh the police force here and it doesn't include the fact that Ken Swedenberg saw only a heel of a print and believed the heel of a print to be from Chad in an area where he hunted beaver which is something else you can add to what the fuck they're pulling out of the trees and ground here he said that he uh anderson used the term uh you uh anderson objects to the term of the uh footprints where there was only a heel print so that's that's that's his big argument of like semantics of of language of the thing but

when you're up for murder i guess that's all you have to latch on to here. They said the inclusion of both these omissions would have had no impact on the probable cause determination and the bulk of the search warrant application focused on firearms and not possible footprints. They said while greater care in assembling the application would have been preferable, we don't

believe that any of the alleged representations or omissions were material to the probable cause determination. So eat dick on that one. The gun's coming into the trial here so trial starts and uh they talk about how shortly before this happened that ken and kenneth and and chad's relationship had deteriorated chad didn't want to work with him anymore in construction uh he didn't want to participate in his leeching business all All the stuff we talked about here. They talk about how Kenneth called Chad at 746 the day of the murder. Chad told Kenneth that he was going to make maple syrup with Al Baker.

And, you know, so at that point, they say that Kenneth knew Chad would be at the syruping camp because he said, I'm going to meet Al Baker over there. Then he talked to Al Baker, who said, I'm not going to be there for a while and I'll stop by your house first. Got it. So he knows he's alone. He knows that Chad's going to be there alone until Al comes, at least comes to his house. So he's got time is what he's.

So, I mean, that's what they're painting, that he knows where everybody is and where all the places, all the pieces are. They said that he used his calls, his phone to call baker about the leech tank and so he knew all of that baker agreed to drive to his house so he uh anderson was aware that baker was not going to the syruping camp until later is what they're arguing uh kenneth was familiar with the area surrounding the syruping camp also because if you're not around there you don't know we'd show up and be like it looks like a lot of woods we don't know what's so shit what's that shit hanging off the trees oh they're collecting syrup why is the ground so sticky yeah so it's

it's it's both mushy and sticky how is that working so uh kenneth had visited the syruping camp before and hunted in the surrounding woods and kenn Kenneth Anderson only lived 1.3 miles from the Serapin camp. So this is they all live in like the woods. Basically, they all could walk through trails and ride ATVs to each other's houses. This is some kind of hillbilly fantasy camp. Mine is all the fucking work. It sounds great. Mine is fucking with leeches and bees and shit like that, which doesn't sound like fun.

So Chad left his house to go to the Serapin camp shortly after eight when the Wolf program did not air. After he left, his wife heard the gunshots, became worried. I'm just going over what they did here. They talk about every phone call she made to him. She says that the shot was between eight o'clock and 813 a.m. They don't know where they're. that the shot was between 8 o'clock and 8.13 a.m. They don't know where there. They also say that Kenneth made false statements to police

about his whereabouts around the time Chad was shot. He told police he met his cousin at his cousin's house between 8.30 and 9 in order to go to a 9 or 9.30 appointment. But in fact, he didn't leave for the appointment until after 9.30. So he's leaving, you know, he said 8.30 and 9. It's really 9 30 so there's an hour in there uh which uh he arranged to have his cousin pick him up then they talk about how he was actually at an appointment for two and he said it was earlier uh he also made false

statements about ownership and possession of the the winchester 300 tikka winchester short magnum rifle they said that does shoot 30 caliber bullets. And at the time, the general public believed that Swedenberg had been shot with a smaller caliber gun because of the information provided by police, which was on purpose. They purposely put out misinformation. Only the killer knows. Exactly. So Anderson, though, still, they said, attempted to mislead police concerning his ownership of the rifle. But he didn't try to conceal ownership of any other guns.

So even though they said he was shot with a different caliber, he still hid that gun and said all the other guns were fine. So he knew what the caliber was, is what they're saying, basically. And also they said that he gave consent and then he became enraged and angry and then made a false statement to police saying that his brother didn't want the outbuilding searched when they had talked to him and he said he didn't care and all that shit. They said that the gun that he used was capable. That gun was capable of firing those bullets to kill Swedenberg, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They go over the palm print on a gun that was hidden in the insulation and no other guns are hidden. There's a lot of factors that are circumstantial but don't look good here. Bullets found in his house had characteristics similar to the bullets

recovered from the body. As we told you, the ballistics can't match them. So now there's some testimony here. And they have a neighbor who said that they lived on the lake for 39 years. They said they were out of the house and they heard two gunshots. He thought it was about 830 or nine, but it might have been earlier. He said it was coming from the direction of of Swedenberg's place over there. He says, though, they're shooting there all the time.

It's nothing to get excited about. So that's why they said they didn't just stop. People are shooting in the woods. Who knows? Every day. Yeah. He says the shots on the day of the murder sounded like a 30-06 or some kind of 30 caliber hunting rifle that is impressive this dude from his car driving the store can tell

the caliber of a fucking rifle at a mile away in the woods that's impressive it is this dude has heard some gunshots in the woods before wow uh lisa swedeberg who's married to ken swedeberg, who's married to Ken Swedeberg. This is Chad's sister-in-law here. She testified that she listened to Swap and Shop on KDLM radio. What the fuck is that? Swap and Shop. You call in and list your item and people can call and buy it from you. It's like fucking audio Craigslist. So it's 1932?

Yeah, that's what it is. What year is this? What fucking year is this? This is 2007,immy when you heard this was it 2007 or was it a lot earlier no to not 2007 it probably was why is anyone doing this in 2007 i don't know do you have the there's a million places to buy shit online what's wrong with you people unless shit i'm gonna sell my goods on the radio so everyone can see them. Jesus Christ. So she was listening to swap and shop until 845, then left to take her daughter to a preschool screening. And she said that Ken, her husband, was home the whole time making pollen patties to be rolled out for honeybees.

He manages the bee business, she says. Obviously here, a Brad Riggle of another guy said that he's known chad swedeberg and kenneth anderson uh since they he was 13 he got to know them through his older brother he said that uh that chad and leslie their relationship uh they that their residence was uh he was there about five six years ago uh while he was going with leslie fane's daughter so chad's friends go out with his wife's daughter because they're all the same age it's just confusing this is wow uh they said he visited like every week after that he said they had a normal relationship leslie and chad they got along uh they quote

occasionally argued and sometimes were embarrassingly affectionate toward each other it went both ways you know like couples sometimes like married people you know happy yeah like that goes uh he said he also visited ken anderson at his house five or six times a month to fish and hunt or barbecue or just hang out with friends uh they said they planned to go to detroit lakes for lunch on the day of the shooting and it got all messed up him and his friend they said the plans changed after and Anderson called and asked to drive him to Fargo to see a loan officer. The other guy said he would go along, but changed his mind after Anderson asked him if he

wanted to go. He said, are you sure you want to go? We're going to be in Fargo all day, stuck there. And he was like, I guess not. So they said that this guy said Anderson seemed to be his normal self that morning, but adding that he said he'd never been excluded like it before, but quote, it was his business, so I found something else to do. He thought it was weird that he uh he said he'd never been excluded like it before but quote it was his business so i found something else to do he thought it was weird that he was trying to

get him to not go to fargo with him but he's like i don't know fucking whatever maybe he doesn't want me in his in his shit and well who knows so he said that after he came home for a while he learned the chat had been shot he called and talked to leslie and uh he says leslie was crying and in shock and obviously they said he tried to call kenneth anderson five times and got no answer and uh later he learned that apparently kenneth anderson's phone is so fucked up that he can't talk on it for more than like three minutes unless he's got it plugged into a charger that's how fucked up this guy his phone is he's a mess yeah he's got a tank full of leeches 45 duis and a fucking

phone that can't hold a charge for more than five minutes he's killing it how many cracks are on that screen jimmy it's a disaster both even the back of its crack it's all cracked the case and everything every time he talks and he gets shards of glass in his cheek it's fucking idiot so yeah he got uh jesus christ man so he said that he drove him, that they drove to Fargo, and they asked this guy, quote, does your cell phone ring when it's plugged in? And he said, yes. They said, does it ring when it's plugged in and charging and turned off?

And he said, no. I don't know what the significance of that is. So another guy, he said that Douglas douglas haver camp is kennett's cousin maybe it was a dude that was just fascinated with cell phones so how's that work how's that work now i'm wondering how because mine i gotta tell you i don't like what's your model because maybe i'll give me i'll pick one of them up i don't like mine does it ring when it's shut off because mine doesn't mine doesn't i'd like it if it did i'd like to know when i mean i want to shut it off but i also want to know when i'm getting a call. You know what I mean?

We're an open court, sir. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I should ask you more about murders and stuff. Yeah. So how about leeches? What do you know about that? So this guy said that he's Kenneth Anderson's cousin.

He also knew Chad Swedeberg. He said that they hunted in the woods in the maple syrup camp. And on the day of the shooting, this guy drove Kenneth Anderson to somewhere else to finish his tax return. And then he drove him to see a loan officer. This was his ride on the day of the shooting this guy drove kenneth anderson to somewhere else to finish his tax return and then he drove him to see a loan officer this was his ride of the day because he was planning on starting a leeching business and needed money to buy leeches now later on a few days later he's already he's got leeches because he tells the cops don't fuck up my leeching i'm conducting my leeching business meanwhile he has no leeches to conduct a leeching business so he hasn't even done it. Yeah, because they said that he couldn't.

They said he talked a little about the leeching business, and he said that he would do the Haverkamp and Chad Swedeberg were going to do the leeching and the delivery, and that Anderson would stay home and do the buying and selling. He's got the fucking greatest job in the world he's going to be wheeling and dealing leeches while everyone else is out dealing with dealing with leeches so they said at the loan office anderson was only inside for about five minutes before he came out to the truck haverkamp said quote he he was running practically

he said kenny swedeberg had been shot and then then and then he got a phone call and found out it was Chad. So that's how that went. But he got he ends up getting rejected from these loans because we'll find out here. Now, Haverkamp was it's funny, too. Even they tried to the process. He's testifying for the prosecution. So they brought up now you served in Iraq for seven months, didn't you? And he's like, yes, I did.

And you're honorably discharged and all that. Yes. yes well thank you so much for your service and they really tried to you're an honest man right they really tried to pump up like that they literally thanked him for his service in open court jesus yeah to make him he's the only person who's not dealing with bees and fucking leeches right now so you know whatever the branch manager of city financial testified that anderson came in imagine this guy coming in scummy from the leech fields reeking of fucking booze guy he's got the dt's and everything else and he's coming and asking for leech money what the fuck that's the scene this guy's never gonna forget it he's gonna be the best testimonial witness ever because he's gonna be like you are

everybody buckle in you're not gonna believe the shit that I'm about to tell you. It's fucking crazy. So this is Nicole Knudsen here. She testifies that Kenneth applied over the phone for an unsecured $7,500 loan for, quote, home repairs in April, but that branch doesn't handle business loans, she said.

So he was coming in to lie, basically, to get a home loan to buy leeches with. So not good there. She said, quote, he needed to come in and prove his income, and they said that he didn't. It was sometime before 2 p.m. He said he was self-employed and needed federal income tax returns for the previous two years since he hadn't finalized 2006,

and he tried unsuccessfully to get all of this. The bank manager said he was agitated and nervous then he got a call and when he hung up he told her his business partner had been shot and he had to go that's that person uh so his loan application was put on hold it was denied a week later though not only because he was charged with murder but because his 2005-2006 income was non-existent so they're not going to give him an unsecured loan for jack shit. For a guy who has no money. For a guy who has no money and makes no money.

So yeah, under questioning, she said that it's not unusual for customers to get nervous, frustrated, or anxious, especially if they've been turned down for a loan, which is true. But sweating and dry heaving is probably another avenue here. She said he hadn't been rejected at that point so he didn't know that she also said that he uh you know she wasn't sure he could have she could have misheard him on the phone they tried to do that sort of thing so uh they also heard from wanda nelson who was his tax person and she said that he he showed up at about 9 45 or 10 rather than he had an appointment at two she said quote he was nervous He seemed more nervous than in previous meetings.

He was in the office for about 15 minutes. And she said that it's not unusual at all for people to be nervous while their taxes are being prepared. She said that he came in really late or he came in really early. He was never on time. So that was that. So they talk a little bit about his taxes apparently he qualified for i have his tax info here when he did his taxes that day he qualified for a 30 federal

refund and nothing from the state so this person he took he drove in a car yeah wasted more than 30 in gas money to fucking have a person do a bunch of math and tell them the federal government that has a trillions of dollars going through it they owe you 30 bucks they're gonna chip you off a couple of pizzas there's that yeah what a fucking mess unbelievable leslie that has what chad's wife her younger sister testifies she's one one of the people that lives there uh morning star bellacourt is her name it's a fucking name right there yeah jesus that sounds made up and shit that's a name uh she says that she she worked late the night before at a as a security guard at the shooting star casino which is that's too close to her name well yeah it is, it is. I've never had what a casino probably is and its name match up in tone so well.

You know this is like a depressing casino in the middle of an Indian reservation, and they call it Shooting Star Casino, which just sounds sad and fucking depressing. She said she woke up that morning from a bad dream. She said, I still felt like something was wrong. And then she learned something happened to Chad. She said she got dressed and ran outside and saw Kenny Sweetberg go by in a bobcat with the police there. And she said that the trail was quite muddy, and they said this was amazing. They'd have to bring Chad down on a pallet since the ambulance couldn't get there with a stretcher.

And so they had to, like, drag him behind the four-wheeler? Basically fucking carry him on a pallet through the mud to get him out of there now she said she cried and all that she was kneeling in the mud and she was trying to hold back they had dogs that were trying to fucking bite the paramedics or working this is imagine this scene no in the wood in the muds and the paramedics and police and fucking a pallet and there's dogs barking and people are screaming and crying there's fucking leeches and maple syrup everywhere bees are swarming this is a disaster this is a fucking disaster they got the they got the dogs down the trail and then they were helped by al baker who showed up and he loaded uh the dogs in the back of his pickup truck and drove them all home they said that his help was

needed they said i knew we wouldn't be able to walk all the way back with those dogs going crazy like that so al helped a lot uh she said that leslie was saying quote i don't want to live what am i going to do without my chad and all that type of shit uh you know she was freaking out yeah uh she they said they got a call uh from uh from kenneth and Anderson who asked at 10 52 asking if Chad was there. And he said, Hey, this is his bro. Now asking if Chad was there at 10 52, he had already received a call way earlier than that.

That said Chad was Chad's shot. So it was a very much like a weird phone call. They also talked to Al Baker, obviously got to talk to Al Baker, the guy who does everything. He's going to help cook up the syrup here. He says that when he stopped by, he says that he got the call from Kenneth Anderson. He was supposed to stop by his house on the way to Chad's, and he said that he stopped by and Kenneth wasn't home.

He said that Al said he looked around a bit called anderson's cell phone and nobody answered and then he said fuck it headed over to the maple syrup camp where he found chad shot and all that chaos going on uh baker said he that anderson hadn't asked hasn't asked him about the leech tanks before or since so the next day he wasn't like hey will you still check out my leech tanks he said he never just never brought it up again that morning was the only time he needed the leeching shit uh there uh baker said he heard chad and i've told him also that that chad was leery of going into the leeching business with anderson not only because it was a stupid business but no he didn't say that but he he did also say because anderson didn't have a driver's license it wouldn't be able to even take it wouldn't be

able to participate in this business basically so that makes sense here so uh yeah they said that uh that uh anderson had called swedeberg's home the night before and he said that the the his wife said that he didn't want to talk about leeching with with kenneth he overheard she overheard the conversation and said that you know that uh ken chad didn't want anything to do with Kenneth at that point. They also said that they got his wife to basically admit that sometimes his brother and him had beef, too. And they were trying to put it on somebody else could have shot him, basically. They were doing that sort of thing. Now, Ken Swinberg had gotten maple syrup from someone other than Chad. And Jesse Fane said that Chad wanted to go over and make fun of the syrup because his was better.

That's why they went over the night before to mock his syrup. Hey, we're going over to Ken's house. I'm gonna make fun of that fucking syrup. He's got some shit syrup. Let's go make fun of it. I've never left the house to mock a man's syrup. I don't care what syrup you have in your fucking house he said that would be like us be going over to pick on someone for listening to another podcast

i hear you listen to fucking time suck huh yeah what the fuck is that about we like time it's a bad example yeah but we love dan too yeah so yeah they were they were laughing at each other they said they were laughing with each other and They said they were laughing with each other, and they got along like brothers do. They said that they did things they didn't agree with, but they let each other be, basically. They said they always carried their phones in the woods because of accidents and hunters shooting the wrong things and all that sort of shit. Because they said, would you always carry your gun in the woods or your phone in the woods? So, yeah, he said that there's not a lot of people in the area, they said, around there.

Leslie said, over the years, I was surprised at how few people we ran into in the acreage behind the house. So it's just not, it's so rural, people stick, they have their own woods, basically, here. So they also said that they talked to Leslie, and they said that your opinion of Kenneth Anderson at the time of Chad's death was different than it is now. And she replied, yes, this is the defense asking her this. And they said, because you think he killed Chad?

And she said, I know he did. And they said, and the defense said, no, you feel he did. And she said, I know he did it. So he's arguing with a widow on the stand about her emotions, which is probably not the best thing to do in front of the jury, I would say. She said that she believes that Kenneth Anderson had murdered him. And the judge ended up breaking up this little thing and saying, all right, we're not going to have a fucking argument over something that neither of you know. She said that Chad tolerated Kenneth and they were not best buddies. They would hunt together.

They grew up together. But Chad was tired of him and all the trouble he caused. She said Chad was a good person. He would be buddies with everybody. But also, she said that she had made statements to the police that they were best friends. And at the day of the shooting, she said, you should talk to this guy because he'll know better. He's closer to my husband. He would know what he has beef with.

So she is making contradictory statements here and also during this whole thing it comes out that uh chad was having an affair oh boy as well so you can't trust anybody no you okay if you're married and your husband is fucking syruping on the property you don't expect that guy to be out slinging dick around the county also as well right right? Very rare. You're like, if I can trust anybody, it's the syrup guy who does nothing but hang out with his brother and deal with syrup and leeches and bees. He's not fucking anybody.

Oh, yes, he is. You can trust no one. So that felt if you think your relationship is solid, it's not probably. I don't know what the fuck to tell you. It's possible you're in trouble. It's possible, yeah. If anybody's dealing in syrup, I would say be suspicious. Apparently, it's the lore of the...

It smells so delicious. That's what it is. It's the lore of the syrup business. It's the pheromone. So many groupies. It's known for groupies, that business. It's like rock and roll and movie stars, athletes, and syrup. So all the bottles are shaped like ladies.

That's it, man. That's it. They're like, yeah, that's it man that's it they're like yeah that's what i like right there junk in the trunk oh boy some of that antima shit so he says uh yeah he argues here uh kenneth's argument is that the state fails to meet its burden of proof he says the timeline of events supports uh you know a reasonable inference that he couldn't have been the shooter uh between the distance in his home in the syruping camp he said it would have been difficult for kenneth to kill chad and

then return to his normal business okay which it really wouldn't have it would have been maybe emotionally but physically they only lived 1.3 miles away so very easily for him to kill him and go back to his normal business from there uh they they established all the shit with his cell phone and he tries to use that to his advantage obviously uh they they established all the shit with his cell phone and he tries to use that to his advantage obviously uh they said that he called his sister at from at 8 34 p.m from an unknown unknown unknown location and uh that he says we must assume the jury believed here the jury does believe the state's evidence about this because basically he called his sister at 8 34 but doesn't show up until 9 30 oh that's weird so he's got an hour of unaccounted for time where they have no idea where he is and that's the time

when chad was shot so it's kind of a yeah it's you know or he was shot a little before that but it's definitely in the ballpark of he could have been gone and whatever so he also says that the state evidence didn't convincingly rule out al baker or Ken Swedenberg as the perpetrators in the murder. So Al Baker, the helpful 72-year-old, he had to pop a cap in his ass out there in the woods for no reason. Make me do syrup in. Shit, check your tanks and build your fucking trap. Why would you build someone 200 aluminum things and then shoot them? Makes no fucking sense.

He was clearly helping this man and they were doing shit together. shoot them makes no fucking sense he was clearly helping this man and they were doing shit together uh so they said that uh they said that you know baker says that he was at home or picking up groceries and uh ken swedeberg said he was making food for his bees and that's what ken swedeberg's wife said and al probably doesn't have a criminal record as long as his fucking arm too so he's a little more believable than a drunk guy so uh they also anderson argues that they didn't demonstrate a motive the state which they don't have to demonstrate a motive that's a common misconception that the prosecution has to have a motive they don't have to have a fucking motive they don't care about a motive doesn't matter the homicide book they talk about they don't give a

shit there's a line where he says we don't care why pinky shot fucking you know chichi in the in the 400 block of this that we don't give a shit why that happened we just know it happened why isn't your fucking problem we don't give a shit that's why they always say that the why is always the part that we always miss because they don't care about it and need it they don't need it for a case they don't it helps they say that helps to paint a picture for a jury but if you go hey we found fingerprints on this gun that they belong to him and that gun shot these bullets into him. He's fucking convicted, period. They don't give a shit about why.

You know, drug beef, who knows, or whatever beef is what they usually, and homicide's all about. Kind of an urban drug dealer thing, so a little different than here. He says that he may, Anderson also says he may have hidden the rifle in fear when it became apparent that the investigation was focusing on him. He said he might have hidden it in fear, but like they said, they told the public that it was a different caliber that was used, so he wouldn't have had any fear of that. He wouldn't have had nothing to fear, right? Exactly.

So they're saying that. Yeah, he argues lack of physical evidence, such as nothing with the footprints. They didn't save those at all. Also with the footprints they didn't you know save those at all uh also with the timeline he says basically uh uh you know he there's different tracks this one saw one going this way this one saw one going that way a heel print who knows basically so finally there they have to go to the jury with this mess and just try to figure it out and uh the jury deliberates for a little while and they decide guilty yeah first degree premeditated

murder oh shit guilty because if he did it it's premeditated he didn't just go over there to hang out getting an argument yeah that's a long drive to shoot someone in the back so it's uh you know it's got to be premeditated if he did it so they end up convicting him they dropped the theft charge for some reason before this because he had a theft charge for something else. For something else. They dropped that in the deal here. Won't matter. Won't matter.

So now they're sentencing. And if you've been found guilty of this crime, it looks terrible. Looks like shit. Looks like you're a real asshole who shot a man in the back and then fucking tried to get out of it. Shot your best friend in the back and then tried to get out of it. So he is sentenced. Oh, I think this is a you, sir. You, sir sir may fuck off uh life without parole oh that's steep that's steep that's the one yeah that's that's the one there so he got banged hard for this so there is no physical

evidence there is no it's circumstantial it's good circumstantial solid but there could have been some stranger in the woods that shot him and kenneth could have been doing something we have no fucking idea that's what's dangerous about this type of shit that's why we're lucky it's not like a death penalty case where this guy would be dead already who the hell knows so kenneth anderson though he ends up uh doing that he's going to appeal uh he maintains his innocence not only that he says he's being framed oh god damn it he does an interview in the press he says quote i quote, I would love a new trial. That's my ultimate goal.

He wants to argue that lies, deceit and tampered evidence led to his conviction. He says, always in the back of my mind that if that jury heard all the stuff and reports, if this would have changed, they they said that he says, quote, the evidence was presented fairly. I'm sorry, the prosecutor said the evidence was presented fairly to the jury, and the jury came back with a decision in the first degree murder conviction, something they didn't take lightly. They asked him, quote, do you think you were framed? He says, think I was? I know I was.

So he goddamn knows he's framed. He says they'll make arguments about new evidence. He says he's got a bunch of new evidence here, and it's fucking on. Now, his mother agrees with him. His mother, Geraldine Bellinger, she says she's standing in front of her by her son. She says, quote, somebody else did it. I know my son didn't do it. I know that for a fact.

Just like any of these people who are here with me know he didn't do it. I always said if I knew my son was guilty, I wouldn't here but i know my son is innocent and i'm fighting and i'll fight until the day i die jesus so she thinks he's innocent as much as the wife thinks she's fucking guilty exactly it's he's got those two things so 2010 he has an appeal he raised it raises a claim of ineffective ineffective assistance of counsel uh alleging that the council failed to adequately investigate his case. Also brought up the fact that he didn't testify and the counsel kind of forced him not to testify.

But I have the transcript of the exact conversation when he says he doesn't want to testify. And the defense attorney going, haven't we talked about this and blah, blah, blah. Is this your final decision? Are you doing this? The defense attorney was saying he wanted him to testify and fucking he didn't. So it was not valid.

That's on him, basically. He also says that if the state produced enough evidence to demonstrate he was a killer, it didn't produce sufficient evidence to prove premeditation. So you say, maybe I killed him, but you didn't get the premeditation part. They said, you know, maybe I killed him, but you didn't get the premeditation part. They said, you know, that's not it at all. It's a planning motive, the manner of killing. They said that was he said that's not sufficient for premeditation. He says the act of carrying a rifle into the woods would not be sufficient to establish premeditation as it's common for residents of the area to take firearms into the woods,

which is probably right. But circumstances proved to proved, including more than an act of carrying the rifle in the woods. They say it also includes the fact that he arranged to delay Albert Baker. That was a big deal. That is. So he wouldn't be there because he called Chad, found out everybody's schedule,

then called Al and made that whole thing. And the thing with the leech tank that never came up and all that shit. Now, he also contends that his constitutional right to counsel was violated when his phone calls to his attorney's cell phone were monitored and recorded. He also argues that it's nearly impossible for him to prove that the prosecution listened to these calls and obtained prejudicial information from the calls, which is basically every prisoner ever. They can say, I bet they were recording my calls. And who's to say they weren't listening well they take your freedom that's the law the whole point yeah oh they're not supposed to listen to your legal strategy with your attorney that's that's not okay there that's but i mean there's no way to prove that they have or haven't it's that's the problem yeah that's supposed to be completely you know on you uh so they uh also

the uh this whole thing with a juror comes up there's a juror here, a juror and a co-worker of this juror. The co-worker was aware that this juror was serving on the jury and asked him how it was going. This juror replied that there was, quote, a lot of controversy about the case and, quote, this one says this and this one says that and this one says this. And this one says that. And this one says this. So the district court asked the co-worker if this juror made any indication that the other jurors felt the same way. Or was there any indication that they discussed it? And the juror and this guy said that he didn't really discuss it further than that.

Basically, they tried to say, like, was this guy pressured into voting guilty by other jurors where he wasn't actually guilty. But that was in the middle of the trial. And he was like, I don't know. This one says this and this one says that. So that's a lot of jurors would fucking say that, especially if you didn't want to talk about it. And it's not the end. I mean, it's the middle of the trial. You can say whatever you want. Yeah.

And especially if you weren't allowed to talk about it, but didn't want to sound like a dick at work. He's saying, I can't. I'm not allowed to talk about it. You'd be like, I don't know. It's a lot of this one, this and this one saying that you know how it goes like you might just blow it off i could see myself saying that basically uh with that so that ends up being all uh dismissed out of there they had to the court interviewed all the bailiffs to learn if anyone observed any improper conversations between the jurors they looked really deeply into this whole juror thing

and they found nothing fucking happened other than this guy said it's a he said she said who the fuck knows type of thing in the middle of the trial so uh so that appeal is denied 2011 he applies for post-conviction relief and he's denied there 2016 they talked to al baker uh this is this is he's got new evidence he's saying now al baker no no no oh okay ken ken of anderson saying he new evidence, and this is why he's fighting for a trial. He was even featured in a documentary that was in the Tribeca Film Festival about wrongfully convicted people. And there's this one guy who was released from a California prison who was wrongfully convicted. They profile him, and they also profile Kenneth, acting like he's the most put-upon guy in the fucking world. Acting like he's put-upon Kathy over here. And it seems like he's the most put upon guy in the fucking world acting like he's put upon kathy over here and it seems like he's probably put upon kenneth put upon

kenneth that's him that karen kathy and kenneth yeah are all my mom's brothers and sisters names that's perfect jesus how is that how does that happen how the fuck does that happen in the fuck so jesus christ that's awesome so they they interview al al baker again in november of 2016 he's 81 years old by this point and he says he tells the officers right away my memory's not as good as it used to be first of all i'm fucking 80 he said that uh anything i said at the time would have been accurate but now i don't know if i what i'm going to remember here he said that he spoke to uh spoke with anderson at the time of the trial he said that baker recall asking uh baker recalled asking the judge to speak with anderson at the conclusion of his testimony and uh he didn't recall if the jury was in the courtroom then

baker recalled thanking anderson for not shooting him. Also, that's what he said. He goes, I went up to him afterwards and said, thanks for not shooting me, too. And Baker believed Anderson created circumstances so that Baker would not be present at the syrup stand that morning. He also explained that Anderson had asked him to look at the tank and all that kind of shit. Baker told the officers that he did view a location that he concluded Anderson had shot Swedenberg from where he thought he shot him from. He recalled that he made the observation days after the murder when he and Leslie and Jesse,

his wife and stepson, had returned to the syrup stand to finish processing. So a few days later, they all went back to finish the syrup. Wow. They had to go finish the syrup. What are we going to do with all this syrup? Can't just leave it in the woods. So at this point, Baker recalled seeing cigarette butts at a particular location where a location where he believed he also observed shell casings. And he said, this is the fucking spot that he was standing where he shot him.

He said that the evidence was collected and Baker said that he may not have told the officers about the shell casings. He might have forgotten. He's not sure because he's 80 fucking one years old. He denied making any observation that Kenneth was at the property during these morning hours. He said that he had not been to the property any time that day. As he said before, he had told that kenneth's mother had been telling people that albert was responsible for the murder of chad so that's what the rumor going around town he said some of those people have advised albert of her statements uh baker says he doesn't recall

discussing the murder with her at all he denied that he ever she says that okay this is we got to get into this uh uh his mother said that uh said that i'm sorry leslie said that that baker had freaked her out because she he at one time told her that uh that he had heard voices in his head telling him to kill Chad. Oh, Jesus. That's what she says. He heard voices. A 72-year-old man heard voices. That's what the wife said. And he said that he certainly never told anyone he heard voices.

He said he never heard any voices, and he's not involved with it at all. He doesn't have any reason to kill anybody. He says that he recalled Ken Anderson using his cell phone on the day of the funeral. He recalled Ken Anderson using his cell phone on the day of the funeral. He says that Baker advised. Baker said that Kenneth told him, told Baker that he didn't have his cell phone that day. But then he saw him using his cell phone that day. Baker later saw Anderson using his phone and thought that was suspicious.

He said he had no recollection of receiving calls because he said that the mother. This is what we got to get into cheryl dean kenneth's mother said that baker called her and said that several people that i that baker told her that he's gotten a call from several calls from the same person who claims to be chad's murderer that's what the mother said and he said no one called me claiming to be chad's murderer i don't know what you're talking about no one called me and claimed it i never heard any fucking voices oh gosh but this is his new evidence here and this is his big thing this is what the documentary is based on it's based on there is a big long thing about someone saw these people in a car and the sun was shining but this person may have been in the back seat and it's this big long thing that has nothing to do with shit it's this big bullshit thing his new evidence this is 2018

post-conviction court uh that he wants them to give him a new trial this is the interview with al baker he says that uh an interview this is an affidavit from chad's mom or not from chad's from kenneth's mom though saying that she says baker was at the syruing camp as early as 8 a.m. and she and claimed to find shells and cigarette butts. And Baker sent his 308 caliber rifle to his brother in Illinois because he had said he sent it to his niece in Alaska. And they said it was actually with his brother in Illinois. And she says that her conversation also she recalls that Baker told people that he heard voices telling him to kill chad uh so she said that almost 10 minutes of an interview with baker allegedly shows that baker received two phone calls claiming someone killed chad and told him about it they said that a witness it's a bunch of

shit like that an interview with douglas haver camp showing that he was unwilling to speak with an investigator before trial because he was afraid of Kenneth. So they're saying that means Kenneth's innocent. It's fucking crazy. Also, they said that that they obtained Jesus Christ. They obtained surveillance footage of Walmart of Jesus Christ of surveillance footing footage of Liz Anderson, Kenneth's wife, handing an envelope of cash to Chad and Leslie inside of a Walmart. And that corroborates what he says that he sold the rifle back to Chad.

Meanwhile, he had it up in his rafters. So it doesn't matter if he sold it to him or not. Yeah. Either way, he had it there. It's a bunch of shit. It's a bunch of like affidavits and people

people it's it's a complete horseshit basically his his thing it might be true he might not have done it we don't know but the way he's going about his appeals are and his story in the beginning sucked it really fucking sucks for a guy that didn't do it he's got some incriminating shit and he's lying about shit why are you lying if you didn't do it? That's the fucking problem here. And then he also, I guess he's passed statute. He's passed the statute to apply for something also. So that's an issue. They tell him that they say, even when considered in true and true, even when considered to be true and viewed in most favorable, favorable light to Anderson, three of his newly discovered evidence claims involve evidence that does nothing

more than impeach prior testimony, but doesn't bring new evidence. The claims about the tax lady, Douglas Haverkamp, Brad Riggle, all this different shit. These signed statements that people have statements that say things that don't... It's all

stuff that would have clouded shit during the actual trial. If he said all this shit during the trial stuff that would have clouded shit during the actual trial right if he said all his shit during the trial it might have clouded it but when you bring it up to the fact 11 years later it doesn't sound you know it doesn't sound too much too true here convincing it's not exactly convincing here yeah uh so that uh the also the the exchange with the Walmart thing, Liz Anderson, who's Kenneth Anderson's sister, she said that she gave Swedenberg an envelope of cash that was owed to him from working with Kenneth, not for a gun.

Okay, so it's a different thing. That's what it was there. So that's how that works. They said that he fails to explain the alleged firearm transfer establishes his innocence. He also, no explanation is discernible from the record considering that a.30 caliber rifle was found on the property. So

whether he sold it or not, he had it like we just said. They said that he tried to conceal the rifle and his palm print was found on the rifle with no other nobody else's prints. Thus, you know, it's kind of hard for him to say he didn't have that gun. Therefore, he's fucking innocent. He it's a whole bunch of shit here with his taxes.

A lot of shit with Jesse Fane saying that they're trying to at one point they try to say that Jesse Fane might have shot him. So is it an old man or this or his stepson? Which fucking one shot him? It's goddamn ridiculous here. But eventually they tell him to eat dicks and pound sand and uh fuck off and uh go back to uh prison here and he's currently serving life without parole while he has a full like uh you know it's not we'll put it this way his holes that are not exactly ad non se i've kind of holes here this is not exactly like i don't know this is a rural area it's the odds of someone else wandering by and just randomly shooting this guy

549 people there are really yeah they're really low they've said in years they very rarely run into anybody back there and if you did you'd probably say hello and not just shoot and ask questions fucking later it's a little bit weird it's not like adnan where you know hay was out in the world and could have been taken by anybody, including her ex-boyfriend, including her boyfriend. So who the fuck knows here? But it's affirmed, and he is told to fuck off, and that is the story of Kenneth Anderson. Wow.

And, yeah, and this White Earth, Minnesota, slash Maple Grove Township, slash Omega, slash Wapun, slash whatever the fuck. Holy shit. So that is the show for today. Good God. I hope you enjoyed that.

That was crazy. If you did like it, I know what you can do to tell us about it. You can get on Apple Podcasts, purple icon there, and give us five stars. Tell us whatever you want. You can't fix us with words. It's just for business. It helps drive us up the charts. It really, really helps a lot.

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is live. Go get your tickets, Charlotte. And Orlando and Tampa, first weekend of the tour do not embarrass come on get your asses out there let's get uh let's get let's make this awesome let's make the tour strong because the rest of it uh is it's gonna you know it's gonna be bananas so yeah you guys don't don't want the first ones to be out fucking standing don't be the ones after the tour where we're like man what a good tour mean, Florida sucked, but the rest of it was great. Don't be that, guys. Everybody fucking,

for once, Florida, do the right thing. Everybody talk shit about you. For once, you know what? Say no. We're not going to be the ones that are going to be made fun of. We're not going to be made fun of

and told that Omaha is better than us. No. So please do that. Get your tickets to your live shows. Also, follow us on social media. We are at murder small on twitter at small town murder on instagram and at small town pod on facebook and things like the charlotte tickets you would have known that they're going on sale before now if you followed

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Put them on me. Cover me with names like leeches in the great outdoors. Hit me with them, brother. That is disgusting. This week's executive producers are Robert Aldred. Happy birthday. Oh, birth-yay. Birth-yay. You guys are so nice.

Some people pooled some money for your birthday. So happy birthday. Thank you guys so fucking much for that. That was really awesome. You guys had a bunch of cards. You guys are really cool, man. Thank you so much for that. That means the world to me.

The amount of mail is incredible. It's awesome. Thank you, guys. So we also have executive producer Christopher. No, it's awesome thank you guys so we also have uh executive producer christopher christopher no it's crystal crystal genaro uh sion uh your court hughes that's robert aldred's wife cool ashley and jeremy mason uh michael stole melissa mccormick theresa monzo stratman and ruben rodriguez thank you guys so much we can't do thank you guys that's the best uh lee uh got his mba and he stayed up late listening to us and his wife wanted to tell him congratulations so good work lee congratulations the rest we've got here are lisa chalice uh lynn powell uh kelly shit that's a weird name yeah it

is kelly soylent green uh antonio manises Manises, Jeff Callahan, or is that Joff? That's Joff Callahan. Morgan Haynes, Liz Vasquez, Ryan Schultz, Trevor Farber, Thomas Smith, Jennifer Murphy, Adriel Thomas, Alex Richardson. Happy birthday. Where did I go? Jesse Hartman, Brendan Ables, John J. O'Hara, Jeremy Phillips, Elijah Nia, that's what that is, Jeff Forsell, Justin Miller, Amy Lasher, Luke M., Gisella Fleischer,

Valerie, no, yeah, Valerie Calloway, Sandra Helm, Casey Huffman, Kayleen, Kayleen Kirsch, Melissa Ann, Clay Thorson, Tilly Veldman, Lacey with no last name, Happy Father's Day, Chris Bataglia in New Jersey. Good for you. Hey, Happy Father's Day. Yeah, that's nice. Jude, is it Jude? Yeah, it's Jude Kendall, Shannon Russell, Amy Eichardt, Tyler Gwill, Daniel McCabe,

Sherry with no last name, Kyler Lundberg. Eric Langenacker. Eliza Carbo. Neil Campbell. James Martyr. Angela Pahoyjik. Pahoyjack. Wow. Put some stank on it. I write terribly, and that's a terrible, difficult last name anyhow. Alicia Massey.

Yeah, thank you so much. Gary Howard. Tyler Daddy. Duass? Pooass? Rooass? What is that? Tyler, thank you so much. Gary Howard, Tyler Daddy, Duass, Pooass, Ruass, what is that? Tyler, thank you. James Eberle, Nico Oosterwizen, Andrew Parks, Alexandra Gallagher, she donated twice, both ways, thank you. Thank you. Todd B. Christos, Jeremy Lemos, Jasmine Berninger, Sam Powell, Stephen Rood, Liv Browning, Kate Pantle, Christine L. with no last name. That's just Christine.

That's what that is. Vern Palm. It's just Christine. Vern Palm Reining, Kayla Liebman, Sabrina Wheeler, Erin Dickerson, Sarah Wojcicki. No, Wojcicki. That's what that is. Matthew Williams. Something Polish. It's Matthew Williams, Gabriel with no last name, Connor Owens, Stephanie Ogoa, Timothy Palm, David Guessing, Frederick Cloth, Danielle Hopkins, William Cox, Raymond Clevenger, Alvin Wilden, Craig Cole, Cassandra Dobrum, Armando Taronis, Sarah Jensen, Ben Glover, Ashley Veo.

Oh, yes, of course. Of course. Mike at Dogpile Services in Chicago. Go over and find out what Dogpile Services is. Judy Gravenhorst. Jesus jesus fuck i'm an idiot uh ben humbert and alan uh cosins thank you guys so much but before we before before i wrap those up i want to thank you guys all for being so fucking nice to uh matthew's wife yes thank you guys for that you guys did an amazing thing for her. Tough time for those people.

The donations that poured in for their GoFundMe were enormous. Not only that, your support, too, I know means a lot to them. It really does. And I've got an email that is very personal and sent to us, and I'd like to read it, but I'm not going to, just because it's incredibly sweet. But her point is just, if you've got mental health issues, if you've got anything that you're that you're dealing with, it's very personal to me, obviously. And I just hope that you guys talk to somebody and and figure it out because you don't want to.

She Rebecca and now her poor daughters are really struggling. So thank you for helping them and doing doing what what you're supposed to do. You guys are fucking struggling. So thank you for helping them and, and doing, doing what, uh, what you're supposed to do. You guys are fucking incredible. Definitely. We appreciate everything you guys do for us. And,

what if the people wanted to find you and tell you something about appreciation? You can find me, teach you the meaning of something. Give me the Rex of your psychiatrist that at Wisman sucks. W H I S M A N sucks on Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat. I appreciate everything you guys do.

It's really, uh, it's, it's, it's fun. It's powerful really, it's powerful, and I love watching it happen. So thank you. What can they tell you? Definitely. You can tell me, at Jimmy P is funny, or you can just copy and paste my last name from the show description, and do it that way, because you don't want to spell it, because

that's going to be more difficult and more trouble than you really need to get into. So do that. Keep following and keep doing everything. Like we said, get on social media because we announce different tour dates and when we have more tour dates like Salt Lake City and Denver and all that shit that we're planning, we will be announcing there first

as usual. So do that. My goodness, Jesus, look at this. What a lovely time. Thank you guys so much for everything this week, everybody. Until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye. guys for so much for everything this week everybody and until next week it's been our pleasure hey prime members you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

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