Small Town Murder - #129 - A Bloody Surprise in Guilford, Connecticut

Episode Date: July 25, 2019

This week, in Guilford, Connecticut, a bloody discovery is made by a small child, leading police, and everyone else to wonder how this could have possibly occurred in such a nice, little town. These answers come quickly after a crazy night of crack, and murder is uncovered. With that case solved, police begin to ask about another murder... Also, it's crazy the people you meet in prison. Like serial killers. Could one killer help put away an even worse killer? Buckle up, and find out!!Along the way, we find out how the sewing machine is connected to the Statue of Liberty, that you may start to become unreasonable after not sleeping, but consuming a lot of crack over the course of 2 days, and exactly how creepy a van can be!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Guilford, Connecticut, a horror scene of three dead people is discovered by a child, prompting everyone to wonder who could

possibly do this in such a nice little town. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us on another crazy edition of Small Town Murder. And I feel like I have been bludgeoned over the head with so many small town murders because we were obviously in Florida this past weekend doing live shows. And it's been a lot of small town murder.

So it just makes me like it more. It just makes me have more fun. And I do have to thank everybody who came out to Tampa and Orlando. Unbelievable. We had a great time down there. Thank you, Bob in Tampa, for all of your work. We're sorry that your flashlight got lost, the club manager down there. What a great club, though.

Great club down there. Great times. And I will say the Orlando club, a little protective of the staff. A little bit. If you don't know, we played the same club where the voice. Christina? Yeah, they mess up her last name all the time. But the singer from The Voice, she's very popular.

She was shot and killed there by a crazed fan, apparently, during a meet and greet. So they're super protective. If you go out to smoke a cigarette, you turn around, there's a big, giant dude next to you. You're like, what's up, dude? I'm good. And he's like, no, I'm just going to hang. You're like, all right, that's cool. We don't want to lose another one. So, you know, we'll just hang by you. What's he going to do, dude? I'm good. And he's like, no, I'm just going to hang. You're like, all right, that's cool. We don't want to lose another one.

So, you know, we'll just hang by you. What's he going to do, though? He's not. He doesn't have a gun. No, he's just standing there. He's not in front of me. He's going to be next to me. He's going to go.

Yeah, I shot him good. So but thank you. Through and through. Oh, man. And also this week coming up, we will be soon here. The beginning of August. First week of August here. We are in Cleveland and Columbus.

Columbus first, then Cleveland. Right. Get your tickets right now. There's some tickets left available for those two shows. So please get your tickets right now. Let's go. Let's go. Get them out.

Get both those things sold out. Some shows have sold out. Dallas in November. All gone. Bye. Sold out. There's a show in Houston. You don't mind going to Houston.

There's still some. Houston Improv. Let's go. Still some tickets left in Houston. But Dallas. Sold out. There's a show in Houston. You don't mind going to Houston? Houston Improv. Let's go. Still some tickets left in Houston, but Dallas is sold out. Milwaukee in December has about 20 tickets left. All right. So those will be gone by the end of the weekend. So get your tickets immediately if you want to see us in Milwaukee in December.

That ought to be warm. Yes. Also, Philly, Washington. That's the only time we're going to be out really. D.C. D.C., yeah, on the east, east coast there. So we're not going to Boston or New York in 2019. So get those tickets right now.

Come and see us. LA, San Diego also. Go out there. And then Omaha and Minneapolis. Minneapolis, too. We're coming there in a few weeks, and that is just about sold out. So get your tickets right now for that if you want to come see it. And quickly, housecleaning.

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You get all of your stuff there, do that. Also, you can be a hero of ours, a wonderful person who we're going to talk about in the credits. All of these fine people are producers at the end of the show. You can join that group of illustrious, illustrious human beings very simply by going to patreon.com slash crimeinsports or head over to PayPal and use our email, which is crimeinsports at to patreon.com slash crime in sports or head over to PayPal and use our email, which is crime in sports at gmail.com. You can find both of those links.

Jimmy, where over there, shut up and give me murder.com. Oh, you nailed it, buddy. You nailed it. Boy,

was I on the viewer right there for that one? I got it. It was a pass. It was a no look pass and hit Jimmy in the chest and he looked down and went, Oh shit, that's my ball. Oh fuck. All right. And then he, then he hit a layup though, right after it, he picked it up and got it. I got it. It was a pass. It was a no-look pass, and it hit Jimmy in the chest, and he looked down and went, oh, shit, that's my ball. Oh, that's the ball. Oh, fuck.

All right. And then he hit a layup, though, right after it. He picked it up and got it. I got this. The ball falling off almost juked the defender. It helped a lot. Helped a lot. Quick disclaimer, very quickly this week, because we want to get into this and get going

on the case, because it's an insane case here. Quickly, this is a comedy show. It's a comedy show. It's real cases, real murders, everything like that, but we make fun of some things. We make fun of murderers. We make fun of a small town if it's got some silly festival or a police force that, you know,

overlooks a murderer for years and doesn't arrest him and then he kills other people. Things like that we make fun of because, you know, we're comics and that's what we do. Some facts. The rest of it's all facts and then a couple of jokes. That's what it is. All facts plus one or two dick jokes we'll throw in there for you. So if that sounds good to you,

awesome. We're going to have so much fun. That's great. We're not going to make fun. One thing we don't do is we don't make fun of the victims and the victims' families because we're assholes

but we're not scumbags. You nailed it. That's the way it works. So if that works for you guys, I think it's time. I think it's time. Stand up on your cubicle. Scream it out into the gym.

Other frightened people who are going to be working out. I don't hear it. Yell, stand up and yell, shut up and give me murder. Let's go on a trip. All right. What do you say? Let's do this. All right.

We're coming from, Jesus, we're coming from Florida. Yeah. But our last murder that we did on the show, recorded-wise, was Nebraska. Wow. Middle of the country there. Right dead in the middle, and that was a crazy case. But this week, we're going to go to the East Coast. Great.

Going to the Northeast again. We've been hanging in the Northeast a little bit. We did Maine and New Hampshire, Vermont. We're going to Connecticut. Been a while here. We're going to Gulliford, Connecticut. Oh. Ooh, exciting.

It's in South Central Connecticut. So we're kind of right on the Long Island Sound there. So it's right on the water, south shore of Connecticut. Oh, exciting. It's in south central Connecticut. We're kind of right on the Long Island Sound there. So it's right on the water south shore of Connecticut, right in the middle of the pan. You know, there's no pan handle here. It's all pan. It's about 55 minutes to Hartford, Connecticut, about an hour 45 to New

York City. So this area is very accessible to everywhere. And about an hour to Redding, Connecticut, which is episode 78, our last Connecticut case of July of last year. So it's been a year since we've touched down in the boring state of Connecticut. All I remember talking about with Connecticut very much, the cases I remember, but I remember about Connecticut, is saying that the roads are very smooth there. And they are. Excellently.

You people pave your roads just top notch. Wasn't there a hat factory there, too? I believe there was. Yeah. All those tax dollars go to very smooth roads. smooth there and they are excellently you you people pave your roads just top-notch wasn't there a hat factory there too i believe there was yeah all those tax dollars go to very smooth roads i don't know how your schools are i bet they're good but if not your roads are smooth so it's fine you're putting those dummies to work making roads hey smooth as shit yeah new york bump bump bump bump connecticut smooth pay paved plowed, salted, then cleaned. Yeah. It's nice.

So this is in New Haven County. Zip code 06437. A zero zip code. Awesome. Area code 203 and 475. Hell yeah. Dare try to hold these people back. They'll pop another area code on that shit.

Slow them down. 50 square miles. It's a big town. A lot of rural area in this town. There's town a lot of rural area in this town there's quite a bit of of ruralness in this in this area great the motto here and uh they are all about it is quote discover a piece of connecticut history okay so yeah a piece of it up just a piece small one yeah alternate for everybody else alternate we Revolutionary War jizz still here. You can smell it. You can smell it.

George Washington's DNA is all over everything. Fantastic. It's everywhere, goddammit. History of this town. Gulliford is in the, like we said, it's southern Connecticut down there. It was originally called Menincatucket. Menincatucket. No wonder they changed it.

Which is a really long, complicated name. Then it was sold, along with a bunch of other land, to the Puritans here. The Puritans, these people, this particular group of them, led by Henry Whitfield, were seeking religious freedom from England. In other words, they were seeking the freedom to to uh to impose to uh to not yeah to sexualize any woman they want well no matter her age that's generally what the religion was then well the puritans a different thing basically there was so much of a pain in the ass that even the religious people of that time were like all right enough already with this shit really come on we get it you guys are all holy and high and mighty and shit but jesus enough already with this i don't know anything

about puritans except they dress stupid there you go they dress very and that's on purpose because it's a lot has to do with uh the religion yeah it's it's too much a little too much guys whatever religion you want but i mean calm the fuck down a little bit puritan when it gets you're literally a puritan it's a you know come on come down you're in your goddamn name enough already when it comes to like very specific religious garb that seems to be an inconvenience like you know what i mean there's a lot of religious guard that seems to be an inconvenience it's like all of it anything that you have to wear above a t-shirt or a casual button down or something. It's pretty, I mean, people, they don't seem to mind, I guess.

I don't know. But I don't know. Some of it just seems Jesus. It seems like a lot. No, it seems like a lot. You got space in your closet for this shit. From a practical point of view. This is what I mean.

We're not talking about anything theological. I get it. You're closer. You're closer than I am. Good for you. Knock yourself out yourself out i don't care but i don't care what you wear because you go crazy but jesus that's a lot to put on it's a lot to do it's a lot it's it's it's like when you read stories about like the 1890s or something these the women it would take them five hours and they needed three people to help them get dressed and all this different shit makeup and stuff and shit dangling off of them that was to walk two doors down right to go you know buy a a serving

platter and then come home like that was it was ridiculous it's a lot you get dressed up to talk on the phone these people back then now it seems like the uh uh i don't know what the word is for it uh never mind it's not gonna matter i don't know the the word is for it. Never mind. It's not going to matter. I don't know the specific Jewish religion of it, but they've got like ropes that hang from their waists and then like extra shit on their head. And it's so much. We are not going to get into this at all. I'm not even going to try to. It just seems exhausting.

I know quite a bit about from New York. I know, but I'm not even going to. Is it Hasidic? Well, there's, yeah, the Hasids, they have their own garb. The Orthodox have their own garb. Maybe that's it. Yeah, but there's also different sects that you might be talking about. There's so much shit to be done, though. It's a lot.

It's a lot. That's what I mean. It's a commitment. It's a commitment is what I'm getting at. It's a whole day. It's a whole day. You're not just going somewhere on a Sunday. It's a whole every day.

It takes you a long time to get dressed, you have to go. Okay. There it is. I got it all together. It's a lot. I'll be back to take all this shit off very soon, too. So Gulliford here. It's it's low. Like we said, in southern Connecticut, it was renamed Gulliford in 1639. They got here.

They bought it. And they said, man, I tell you what the fuck. Fuck that. Gulliford. Yeah. God damn it. Much more pure. That's right. Pure.. Gulliford. Yeah. God damn it. Much more pure. That's right.

Pure. Pure Gulliford water. Yeah. That's what it's going to be. Pure Gulliford spring water. So yeah, it was admitted to the New Haven colony at the time, before Connecticut was even a thing here. It was named after Guildford in England.

That's why it's Guildford. I think I've been calling it... Have I been calling it... Gulliford? Gulliford since the... I said it right in the opening, I know, and I think i've been calling it have i been calling it gulliford gulliford since i said it right in the opening i know and i think i've been calling it gulliford ever since i apologize if you've already tweeted fucking apologize back you can send another one right now sorry dude my bad heard you heard you know why i did that as i read it i'm like why am i saying it like that it's not that's not what I said in the beginning. Wow, okay.

Don't look at me. Sorry about that. Jesus Christ. You're looking at me for correction? I don't know what I'm doing. I'm looking at Jimmy going, Jimmy, do you know anything about this? And he's not. He has no clue here.

So it appeared on several maps as Guilford without the U in it, because there's a U in it. Okay. Yeah, so there you go. But they didn't have it in there. Big deal. So anyway, there's a u in it so okay yeah so there you go but they didn't have it in there big deal so anyway it's there's a lot of historic homes there uh gilford is considered by some to be have the third largest collection of historic homes in all of new england oh that is the most vague statement ever considered by some some people which couple guys anybody can say that you know considered by some jimmy considered

by some i'm the greatest basketball player that's ever i've been told by you some consider that yeah i'm sure if i got i could get my son to get into that i could tell my daughter they probably believe other than that i don't know so it's considered by some to have the third largest collection which is third largest is vague and all of new england which is also kind of a 13 a nebulous region also so you can really i don't know uh there's five historic house museums in this town it's not even 13 it's only like seven right what's new england yeah new england's what is it six main new hampshire i guess vermont counts in that sort of vermont's a border state i know they count rhode island massachusetts connecticut but But Connecticut's also part of the tri-state

area, which is New York, New Jersey, Connecticut. There's only like seven of them. You know what, Connecticut? You can't be more than one relationship at a time with a group of states, okay? You know what? Sorry, you're kicked out of the tri-state area now. You don't get to hang out with New York and New Jersey. It's now a bi-state. Yeah, I know you don't like New Jersey anyway, but

you wanted to be friends with New York, and now you can't be. Now it's just a dual state area. You can't be there anymore. You're not bi-state. Sorry. All we're losing is a letter and keeping the same amount of syllables. Tell all your car dealerships you're no longer part of the tri-state Chevrolet car dealerships or whatever the fuck.

Because they were all the tri-state. Tell all of them now. You're out. You're New England now, dickheads. Have that. I think they're just Yankee fans there, so that means they're the tri-state area. New England kicked them out for not liking the Red Sox. So they have one of the oldest wooden-framed private dwellings in Connecticut there.

Ooh. It's one of the original settlers' houses of Guilford here. It was built in 1645. There was a skirmish fought in 1781 between a british raiding a british raiding party this is during the revolutionary war and locals yeah they kind of fought off the british not a big deal it was kind of kept out this area was kept out of the revolutionary war really yeah it wasn't trampled upon like a lot of places no battles right here or anything like that 1848 the railroad comes holy shit from new haven to new london and uh this was largely purchased this area was purchased by from uh stock purchased by gilford residents

and one of them was the first passenger on the train jimmy's dropping shit over here good lord you're not gonna be able to see anything. That doesn't matter. Yeah, I guess I don't need to see anything. Who needs to see, Jimmy? So the railway company here was reorganized later on, and they made a lot more railroads around the area and made it all rail-y. So the shoreline was a lot

here. There's a lot that goes on in the shoreline for industry. There was the salt hay harvesting, which we've talked about before. And you got salt hay. You got something there, buddy. Yeah, you got the cattle, babe. You got gold if you got salt hay harvesting yeah which we've talked about before and you got salt hey you got something there you got the cattle babe you got gold if you got salt hay you're holding it well fishing uh granite quarrying and a fish oil factory oh we have the fish may as well make them into oil let's let's grind these bastards down so uh yeah in 1837 the granite quarrying began and it became a huge industry there until around

the Depression, pretty much, pre-World War II. People couldn't afford it anymore. That kind of thing. They probably quarried it all out, I imagine. After a while, that's it. You ran out. You only can take so much. The only quarry so far.

So, yeah, the quarry was originally on land owned by the first Whitfield guy who got here. It's a big area, you know, kind of a, oh, this is a, they're like, this is like a sacred area. They're like, well, let's dig it. Let's find some shit buried beneath it. There's got to be something under there, right? Let's rape it. Let's get it. Oh, man.

The Beattie Quarry got the contract in 1884 to supply blocks for the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. Really? So, yeah, that's where they were. They came from. The granite is from here. How about that? And the Statue of Liberty, I found out, is modeled after the widow of the guy who made the sewing machine, the singer. The singer sewing machine guy.

That's Mrs. Singer. Mrs. Singer. Well, she wasn't at that point. He had died after a horrible womanizing drunken life where he had like 25 kids that he listed. The sewing machine guy? Oh, yeah. He was married to all these different women at the same time. She ended up getting his fortune in court and then moving to France and marrying a duke.

Suck it. Whose friend who was an artist who then modeled the Statue of Liberty off of her, which is the weirdest shit. Some broad from New York who was married to the sewing machine guy. That's amazing. Yeah, and then they put it on top of granite quarried from here. Weird stuff. That's a great fact, Jay.

How weird is that? That's the most beautiful story. Singer. I read a book about something a while ago. Historically, one of the most boring things to do is sew. He figured it out, though. And this guy's living the most dangerous life ever. He figured out how to make a straight line on a sewing machine, on a home sewing machine

that didn't jerk around and was a good... Incredible. Even... That was it. Makes millions, man. And he's out there just banging away. Oh, banging away at everything. Incredible.

Even before he was rich with the sewing machine, he was a womanizer. Really? Oh, he was married to three women at once. He was a horrible person. And we give that guy $ married to three women at once. He was a horrible person. And we give that guy $800 million. He had a ton of money, though. He had a ton, a ton of money. His partner in it built the Dakota apartment building in New York, which is where John Lennon got shot.

Really? In front of the one he lived in. Yeah, that was sewing machine money that built that. Unbelievable. Yeah, that was Singer's money partner. What the shit? Weird, right? You know way too much, James. I read a book i don't know that's that's fucking impressive

so yeah you know what i know about selling i don't know my grandma did it when my pants ripped that's what i know about it i couldn't sew anything i just read a book and included in that with some weird facts about the sewing machine guy and somehow i retain them because i'm nuts yeah and i don't retain anything that's useful to me but you asked me anything about who the statue of liberty is modeled after i'm going to talk about it oh let me tell you about that dude that woman's scandalous ass husband yeah she was long suffering and she made out in the end so they uh they made ivory buttons here holy shit which later changed to making wagon hubs and wheels later on after it purchased a wheel company they employed about 50 people during world war one and during uh world war two

another building opened the uh owned the building and they made war products under the uh under a division of general motors so lots of stuff came out of here oh yeah during the war they world war two they employed women to assemble ball bearings for airplanes, tanks, jeeps, and military vehicles. And then after the war, it turned into toy pop candy. So there you go. They made lollipops with a bendable stick back in the day. I don't know.

Plastic one rather than a soggy one? Yeah, that cardboard one that falls apart. Oh, that thing sucks. It does. Goddamn blow pops. I love a blow pop. I love them. You break the fucking stick off, pop it in your mouth. Done. That thing sucks. It does. Goddamn blow pops. I love a blow pop. I love them. You break the fucking stick off pop in your mouth.

Done. That's beautiful. Eat shit, Charms. You got yourself a gumball with a candy coating at that point. Suck it, Charms. I cracked the code.

I beat the system, Charms. Do that with Tootsie Roll Pops, too. Don't be a sucker. Hell yeah. You motherfucker. I have a resident review of Guilford. All right. Guilford here. They say, Guilford.

Guilford here. They say Guilford is great with a few exceptions. Commuting is a nightmare. Don't let your kids hang around quote the green in parentheses town square because it's full of bad kids. A lot of judgmental people lately about the children town and town children. The other one saying there's lots of mean kids in the

elementary school. This one full of mean kids in the elementary school. This one, full of bad kids downtown. Winters are hard and older homes are very poorly insulated. So you spend a fortune on heating oil. Homes are overpriced.

Other than that, it's a nice, quiet country living with good people. So there's that. Three stars, two off for bad kids and poor insulation, I guess, which is not the town's fault.

No, that's the fucking homeowner's responsibility, sir. Fucking put some stuff in your walls. Insulate, you dickhead. They didn't have it in the 1800s. No. 1700s. Jesus.

No, that's what I mean. What are they going to do? They're old houses. You're going to have to upgrade them every once in a while. Turn of the century, 1900, there was about 2,700 people here. Nowadays, in 2019, 22,377 people here. It's up 13% since 1990. There was under 20,000 people in 1990. More females than males, but just by a little bit. It's kind

of in the range. The main weird anomaly here is age. Normally, it's about 37.5 in the rest of the country. Here, average age is 48.3. It's a little bit of an older crowd. That's kind of because it's about 37 and a half in the rest of the country here average age is 48.3 it's a little bit of an older crowd and that's kind of because it's a little more expensive too so you're going to kind of have the older you price out the dipshit yeah that and you get the people who like they have kids when they're 37 right you know when they have some money and then they move out of life a little bit and they move out of the city where they have jobs in new york city you know where they commute every day and they move over to whatever and they're very purpose built in their living rather than having drunken fuck nights and you can tell

that by the fact that all the under 18 year old demographics are low really so they're not having a lot of kids either they're like you are on we're all we're gonna control this shit i'm gonna cover it up you're gonna take a pill and we're not having any more one you're taking the pill and i'm covering it up i saved end of it I saved up for Harvard, for Yale, actually. It's right there. For Yale, for one of our kids. Just one. We're not sending another one to community college.

We're just not having any more. Pick a stupid name and let's name it. Let's do it. Yeah, same letter as you. Fine, I don't care. Whatever. Let's go. Fine, Barbara, call her Bethany.

I don't give a shit. So, race of this town, not too much of a shock here. 91.5% white. Yeah. It's a suburban Connecticut. Right. That's kind of what it's known for. 0.4% black.

How about that? Not a lot of black people here, I would say, at all. And New Haven is pretty black. Is it really? A lot of black people in New Haven, which is pretty close by. So it's very strange. 2.6% Asian here. 3.6% Hispanicic so it's just pretty

fucking white and put it that way more people are married here normally it's 50 50 on marriage here it's about it's almost 62 so this is what you get a little more affluent and we'll talk about that you're going to get a little more of the married population and they're still married the divorce rate is lower here than normal widow rates kind of about normal but most of it is not a lot of people that are single with no kids here it's not not a lot of people moving there to to swing and hang it's not really a the the vibe of this town it's about 50 religious which is right on the the norm most of the people who are religious are i'll give you one guess, Jimmy. Conservative? No, no. That too.

Oh, Catholic. Catholic, yes. 36% Catholic because Catholics are the Baptists of the North. That's every damn time here. 1.3% Jewish. How's the Vav Nagila? Vav Nagila. Hey, we finally got to do it again.

You get close to New York City. You get a Hava Nagila for 1%, and I think that's the third time I've done it in 129 episodes. So, small town. If we can have one just anecdotal observation. There aren't a lot of Jewish people in small towns, I'm going to say. At least ones we cover. At least murdery ones. They're not big fans of it. I guess not.

Seems to be. I guess not. 0.5%, so about a half a percent uh islam here voting wise about 54 percent democrat they voted in the last election 42 percent republican about four percent independent unemployment rate here is low it's under three percent which is just that's like dangerously low for economic though yeah but it's economically it's not good actually it's too low it's like around four it's four is the and even that's considered five is like considered a healthy little like under five is considered that's like economically balanced and perfect and you can

whatever and anything below that it starts to get a little weird where you can get shortages and yeah okay i can weird thing yeah so it's a it's economics supply and demand yeah that's the only thing i remember from 12th grade economics is it's certain levels, 0% unemployment's not good. Okay. Because if anything happened or it's not, people are locked in and I don't know, it's weird. So anyway, an economist can explain it better.

Please don't, though, because we don't care. 2% unemployment or 2.9% unemployment rate. Median household income here, though, $107,587. How about that? So it's about $50,000 higher than the rest of the country. So it's a good amount there. There's more professional jobs here, scientific, technical, white-collar-type jobs. Educational services, too, because you can go work at Yale.

It's not too far away, and there's a bunch of other colleges around there. So it's about 16% of that. There's a lot of that going on. A lot of kind of smart jobs here. Cost of living, though, 100 being average regular par. Cost of living here is 140. That's a little bit high, and that's mainly because of housing. Housing is a 195.

Median home cost here, 374,200 bucks. Sweet fuck. That's tough for median. Oh, boy. That is rough. And when you look at it, too, there's not a lot of homes that are valued under that. So it's not even like a poor section. It's like 2% of the homes are worth under $150,000.

That's just Connecticut, too. Yeah, it's just rough. They don't fuck around. No, most of the houses are in the $300,000 to $750,000 range. It's tough. And if we've convinced you that you need to be, you can't help it, you have to be in Guilford, Connecticut. We have for you the Guilford, Connecticut Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here is about $1,660.

That's not bad. Which isn't. That's only about $400 over the national average. When you're talking about the median home prices being that goddamn high. It's rough. Well, I found here, found a value home here. Well, not value, but three-bedroom, three-bath, 1,584 square feet. I'm not going to lie.

Inside looks like it's from Stranger Things. Good. As far as, not like after the Demogorgon attack Joyce's house. I'm talking about just from 1984. It just looks like it's, hey, that's the fridge that Mike has in Stranger Things. It's weird. $196,009. I don't know why the nine is in there.

Three beds. Nobody's given you that. No, I'll give you even. So I found this is the same house, but up to date, basically. Three bedroom, three bath, 1,600 square feet. It's up to date, though, $324,900. It'll cost you an extra $130,000 to get the nice furniture and carpet and walls and all that. Finally, I found a three bedroom, three bath, 3,522 square feet.

It's nice. It's spacious. Set back from the road. Nice big trees grown in. Big yard. $522 square feet. It's nice. It's spacious. Setback from the road. Nice big trees grown in. Big yard. 550 grand for this. But yeah, that's kind of the best value I found in that kind of a house. But still, though, expensive there.

It's pricey. That's steep. Yeah. The Stranger Things house is fucking 200 grand. That's rough. And this thing, you're looking at fucking, you got to pay property taxes on that too and that's oh yeah oh property taxes in connecticut are steep yeah taxes in connecticut's nice and you go someone's got to be paying for this shit because the schools are nice and this roads are nice yeah it's there so uh things to do in this town we have the

guilford fair oh man this is the big deal here it is the second oldest agricultural fair in in connecticut apparently the very really weird nebulous rankings all these it's the second oldest how do they know and also an agricultural fair could have sprung up without being on the radar you shouldn't get to claim that when you were first anyway i don't know californians don't even have the chance to do that i don't know and what do they know anyway it could have like they know everything there's no internet they couldn't know if they had one in you know on the other side of the state right three weeks ago they didn't know that they don't know the utah listen the fucking natives well it's in connecticut second oldest in connecticut oh is that what it is yeah they've been doing it since 1859 okay it's head utah

hasn't had the chance no no not at all it's held each year in the third weekend in september at the fairgrounds which that'll come in up later in gullifer and guilford and that'll come up those uh those fairgrounds now at the this year you can see there the coyote river band i love doing this because we always have somebody who like knows the band he's like they're actually fucking good we're like yeah we don't know or care we're just making fun of names because they're funny county fair they probably aren't it's uh yeah they say they're fan favorites performing a variety of genres that appeals to a wide audience all right so basically cover band we don't care right we'll do anything you want taking care of business one two three four fuck it we'll play it we don't care let's do it they just let's go they know it uh also john cafferty and

the beaver brown band oh yes they're actually had like gold records i'm sure that's uh yeah that's uh on the dark side that one song from the 80s remember eddie and the cruisers it's an 80s movie they were the band that actually really that's the this is the real band that that plays that plays the music that they always play in the yeah which was on the dark side oh yeah that's that that's them yeah but i saw them at a county fair in 1987 still the duchess county fair in new york i was a little kid and when that my mom was like oh yeah that's from that movie i was like okay and that was there it. Get the fuck out of here. Also, Voyage, the ultimate Journey tribute band, which is probably just Journey without Steve Perry, I would imagine.

Journey's not even Journey anymore. Journey's a Filipino guy. That's what I'm saying. Same thing. And I think they even fired the Filipino guy. They hired somebody else. Who gives a shit? Who cares?

Voyage. Voyage. The tribute. Ultimate. The ultimate experience.'m buying. The tribute. Ultimate. The ultimate experience. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in, property crime is about two-thirds the national average, so about a third low. It's pretty low.

And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. Mount Rushmore of crime is less than one-third of the national average. Wow. I guess that's not said right. It's one-third the national average, a little lower than that. So it's one third the national average a little lower than that so it's very low we'll put it that way safe very safe this is this is a leafy this is a town known you go here to go apple picking hell yeah this is like you go apple picking the fucking trees change james that's that's what it's like here and then there's the they have the long island sound down there it's very nice you go to the agricultural fair uh all the this the schools around there win all the soccer championships i

was reading too very much into that uh very much known for their fair like it's it this is like the rural beautiful place that you go you know that you dream i would hope we can live here someday that neighborhood's gorgeous isn't it that this is Soccer and fairs and minivans and apple picking and minivans and just see little little kids with rosy cheeks and just me all happy. Right. The kids with X's in their names for no fucking reason. Forget about it all over the place. Yeah. Just Xander.

Yeah. Because mom loves Xanax. Xavier. And yeah, his their mom is Casey Anthony. You know how that goes. You know how that goes. your mom's Casey Anthony. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious

crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity,

that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts ah the xanax and white wine cocktails in this town are insane that's their happy hour she can just go have kids by the way yeah she could get pregnant tomorrow and be like i'm so happy well we're not and everyone could just be like uh-oh and then we just have to like keep our fingers crossed although i doubt she would probably she would probably be the most protective mom in

the world think about that it's the most hilarious thing the most crazy thought ever that somebody could just somebody could get her pregnant tomorrow tomorrow she could be pregnant right now oh my god and that would be that we'd have to accept that as a fact of life that's just a thing she would be so protective i feel like i was next one she'd be like oh they're gonna totally i barely got away with that last one her knee i'm going to prison exactly like going to prison. Exactly. Like, OJ doesn't go near knives anymore. He uses a gun, obviously, in the one thing. So he's done with knives now. It's a bad look for him.

Anyone sees OJ with a knife, like, he can't order steak when he goes out, OJ. He just orders soft foods everywhere. Y'all cut that up for me in the kitchen, please? Yeah, he's like, yeah, that shit needs to be cut up for me, man. I can't have a sharp object. Can you clear the knives off the table, please? Matter of fact, bring me a spoon to eat that. People just get, I bring my own spork, so it's all right.

Just take all the silverware back. I bring it wherever I go. Bring a titanium spork with me because I'm very dangerous and people are upset. So the last murder. You catch Casey Anthony in Home Depot and people are just following around. You can go down the duct tape aisle, bitch. We're going to have a talk. If this bitch goes and gets indoor, outdoor plastic bags, she gets bags we are done i'm calling the cops putting that right there 911's

already on my phone all i gotta press is the green button she can't buy cleaning supplies bleach nothing she can't buy anything murdery at all can't even buy like spick and span no she can't buy a flashlight i'd be suspicious they'd be like what are you what are you doing in the dark why are you gonna go out at night Why are you going to go out at night? What are you doing? What's going on there? You going in the woods? Do you have a shovel with you?

No? No shovels here? Can I check your trunk for a shovel? Suspicious. I'm sorry. Very suspicious of you. Does your car smell like a dead squirrel? Yet.

Still. Still, so you can get pregnant. Tomorrow. And she can be happy about it. Yeah. Yay. She'll go out on the... Congratulations. Oh. Yay. She'll go out on the... Congratulations.

Oh, boy. And she's making eye contact with someone else in there. And she's like smiling. Anybody else see this shit? Oh, my God. She's not going to... Just push her down the stairs. I'm sorry.

Just do it. Somebody get... Somebody trip this bitch. Ellen. When we're going for lunch just she'll be at this i will say hold on i gotta get a fun then to turn back like you forgot something and then just pump in or she'll fall right down the stairs somebody under the table tie her shoelaces we cannot let her have this child i'm sorry no no eileen no you stop now you stop it stop crying we have to do this for this child we're heroes we're heroes we're saving

taxpayers millions who just says a bunch of middle-aged women plan a forced violent abortion on casey anthony none of this is true we didn't say which trimester i don't know where she is yeah i figure she just announced it all right so it's it's not even showing no it's no calm down and it's casey anthony she'd have killed it anyway let's get it over with now that sounds terrible she brings her neck going down the stairs so hey she was acquitted jimmy she was she was acquitted doesn't make her less of a monster yeah so there you go so the the last uh the last murder in this town, in the entire Guilford town, was in February of 1964. Holy shit.

Yeah. We're going to catch up with Milford in 2000. So between 1964 and 2000, they had exactly zero murder. 36 years. Yeah. No murder. So this is not a murdery town. This is the cops don't deal with murder.

It's just not a thing that happens. They deal with there's some kids being loud and, you know, my cat's in a tree. Right. You know, it's it's not like that at all here. This is the place had a murder. A president was murdered. And everybody references that, too. Really?

Yeah. It's pretty much shares like the country. Like it's pretty much right after Kennedy was shot. This state's the presidential office. That's it right there. It was three months later. Yeah. It's as safe as riding in a presidential months later. This state's as safe as the presidential office. That's it right there. Three months later. As safe as riding in a presidential motorcade.

You'll feel like you're snuggled between the bosoms of two Secret Service agents in a presidential motorcade on a warm Dallas fall afternoon. The windows are top down. It's a beautiful day outside, Jimmy. Dallas in the fall? We'll be there in November in Dallas fall we'll be there in november

in dallas we'll be there right around that time as a matter of fact and you know what we'll do we're going to tell you how nice and beautiful it is to ride with a top down we should get a convertible and make sure to ride i'm staying the fuck out of deal yeah we're going anywhere near there so uh this is bad enough we're going to the theater where the guy was caught oh yeah the texas theater yeah which is good hey it's gonna be a very historic day maybe that's why it sold out so so quick people are very into history here so uh the last town it was 64 and it was a guy named gibson carr he was convicted of shooting a man named edward dykes who dykes was visiting the home of uh gibson Carr's former wife.

And he got pissed off and went over and shot the guy and got a life sentence. So that's a pretty typical case there. So let's talk about a guy who is from this area, who's grown up around Guilford. And this isn't like the typical Guilford kid that they want to produce here. There's a lot of families that are upper middle class and they want their kids to go to college and all this type of thing and mills is kind of from the uh he's more of the white trashy element of the town he's kind of like that jonathan mills yeah his name is and he's he's just kind of uh never never quite could get himself going in life never got any traction and it started early he just uh i mean it like

started out like a lot of kids he started smoking weed in like eighth grade which is fucking normal a lot of great but a lot of kids start smoking weed around that time and they don't turn out to be a bad person or they you know they could turn out to be great you never know it's that's that's not a factor you can look at and go you know that guy's gonna turn out to have a terrible life and you know are going to happen to him. So he ends up dropping out of school, though. And when he drops out of school and right around the time he drops out of school is when he starts really getting into heavier drugs, which is then a problem. And this was in 2000.

This was before that. No, no. Yeah, this is in the 90s. We'll talk about that. He's he's about 22 years old at this point. I'm sorry, 27 years old in 2000. So he was born in 73. So he gets into heavier drugs.

So if you're dropping out of school because of your desire to do heavier drugs, that's probably a bad thing. That's bananas. Yeah. He's going pro? What the fuck is that? He's like, you know what, man? I'm ready to go pro. I've had enough training.

Coming off of the druggie draft. No one can smoke crack better than me right now. I feel like if there's anyone in this country who's ready to be on the front lines of crack smoke, and it's me. First ballot Hall of Fame, actually. I can sleep in a dumpster. Nobody even cares. I can do it.

I can pull it off. I'll show you. I'll do it. And then I'll eat whatever falls in on top of me. I'll do the most in my career. That's a crackhead. I can do this for years. Yeah you know it goes he's he's just he's he's in and out of jail all the time and for shit bullshit and it's escalating bullshit we'll talk about her his sister jennifer

says that he always he said he habitually used crack cocaine powder cocaine heroin and marijuana all right so whatever he can get his fucking hands on it sounds like and we'll talk about it later on he'll uh he likes to smoke a bunch of crack and then do a bunch of heroin and come down and then he's got to go out and get more heroin this is the cycle by the way of like the people always think like like if someone's a dope fiend if they're just a uh if they're just into heroin that they don't like uppers but most of the time the people especially if they live on the street or if they're if they don't have money to buy heroin what they do is they got to get crack and that gets them up because they're so

down from needing heroin so they get crack they smoke some crack and that gets them up for the hunt then they can get their money get their shit together to get their heroin and by then they're jittering out on that and then they calm the fuck down and that's a yeah it's up and down and up and down basically it's it's brutal that's the whole point that's the point ideally i guess is not how you want to live probably god that sounds exhausting it sounds terrible in between doing these drugs you got you're hustling you got schemes and scams and i don't know like bubbles on the wire you got like a copper scam going with somebody and a guy's pretending you never mind you're not gonna watch it forget it so so he is uh between 1992 and 2000 he's arrested 23 times holy shit which is a lot of seven years that's a lot of times three times a year three

times a year it's just in your teens you're just always getting arrested here he would uh he'd steal he'd steal from his family he would he's been in and out of drug rehab a ton of times obviously that's you can count i mean so many of those were all you go to rehab it's all drug related sure it's not anything but if he's stealing it's for drugs otherwise it's possession of drugs that's all he's ever doing so uh he has uh tons of possession charges larceny you know escaping custody criminal interference with police we'll talk about it here uh in 1990 he is arrested for stealing dogs this is when he's like 17 years old he's arrested for stealing dogs from the guilford pound what the why would you do that so he could sell them to get cash wow they're free dogs yeah you don't have to steal them they're free dogs and then you're gonna sell a free dog

right it's a fucking free dog they could go down to the pound and get a free they could just go get that you can't this is not a they didn't go to a breeder i got eight purebred chocolate labs it's not what he's got he's just like i found this i got a stray from the pound you want to buy it for five dollars what the fuck kind of deal is that also get a costco membership to hoard all the samples to sell i'm gonna what are you doing when they they break out those little frozen by like pasta meals and they get one of those in that tiny shot glass i'm gonna get a bunch of them put them on one plate and i'll sell it for 8.95 that's what i feel like he's doing selling bits of sausage too jesus free dogs jimmy you could just go say i'd like that dog and they go here you go and then you can go sell it what the fuck here uh i don't know so in 1992 he was charged with stealing uh discarded scrap metal as well he likes taking things that other people

have gotten rid of yeah that they don't want anymore and get it but are still in the market for it but are still illegal to steal that's the problem so it's like you find there's a thing in there maybe steal stuff that isn't illegal that doesn't technically belong to someone else even if it is also discarded he's taking unwanted shit and going and selling it so he's fine i give him credit he's he's making markets for shit that doesn't exist the scrap metal thing is a drug hustle i get it you're selling scrap metals people discard shit you pick it up i understand that like i said on the wire the one time a light pole fell down like a street light and they propped it up on a goddamn shopping cart and we're taking it to the metal guy a whole street light so by the way that's illegal that's definitely

illegal that's city property but they still did it anyway it seemed like it was a bad neighborhood nobody cared so yeah he's he's got issues here though he's stealing dogs from the pound scrap metal in 1993 he was arrested after he wrote bad checks on a on a closed account to several businesses. In October of 1993, he was arrested at least three times that we know of alone. He's arrested twice for burglary and also for issuing bad checks. That was all at once. And then he also got arrested for selling liquor to a minor while he worked at a store, like intentionally.

I guess one of those things took a little extra cash for the six pack yeah it was one of those where he was just like yeah i know you're it's cool type of deal uh that same year uh he and an accomplice burglarized a barn and stole an antique hutch from a bar dogs hutches scrap metal what this guy's got the weirdest crackies crackheads have crazy schemes i had friends that were crackheads in new york yeah that i knew that were not when i met them yeah they were normal kids and then one day they started smoking crack which was super weird it's really weird i went over my friend's house they were all in the basement and it was like the house where everybody could just

go hang out and smoke weed and do whatever and we were in the basement and all of a sudden there's two of my friends and they're just smoking crack. We're just like, what are you doing? They're like, oh, this is great. We're like, you're smoking crack. Like, oh, it's awesome. We're like, ah, it's just cool to party with, you know? And they're like, all right. And I was not into that at all.

And so. I knew a dude that was like a handsome dude that got girls and stuff. And he's like, start smoking crack. I'm like, what is that, dude? What are you doing? What are you doing? I'm smoking crack. That's a punchline is that, dude? What are you doing? What are you doing? I'm smoking crack. That's a punchline, sir. Yeah, you're smoking crack.

What are you doing? Yeah, I'm like, this is like 1996. Like, we should know better by now. This isn't 1983. There's this new thing. What are you, smoking crack? Yeah. What are you, on crack?

Yes, you are. You're indeed doing it right in front of me. These guys went from, oh, it's totally fun. You want some? Like, it was like a party thing. It was like they got a six-foot sub. And they were like, I know you don't like ham, but it's delicious. You don't even taste it on here.

Here, try a piece. Just the middle is just salami. That's so good. The cheese. They put a dressing on it. You don't even taste it. Two weeks later, my friends showed up with a cigarette machine and a pay phone, taking them down the basement stairs.

Took them two weeks to get to that point. Two weeks from this is fun, you want some? Right. To no more. Now they're like going in another room, you know, separately, smoke and crack. And literally one guy had a pay phone under one arm while he was helping the other guy bring a cigarette machine from a bar that they had just picked up and walked out with. So they could get the money and sell the cigarettes on the street. Two weeks this took.

These were people with jobs. Ridiculous. Insane. So crack is rough, we'll just say. Sorry to go off on a tangent there. It has to be said. Yeah, we need to because we love nice listeners. We see these people at live shows.

They're not crackheads. I don't know how much they know about the crack lifestyle i assume you've you've listened more than jimmy has you've watched the wire you've seen the plight of bubbles but outside of that i don't know how much you know about it i've seen the shit firsthand and it's bubbles what was he he was smoking crack he was doing heroin heroin was his man yeah he was uh he was still that's just you're doing both it's the same life it's the same lifeope Sick Love. Those people, it's- That's fucking horrific. They got to get cracked to get up to get the hunt for dope, and then they get the dope,

and then they sit, and then, oh, shit, we need more crack. It's like a game show, because you're working against the clock every time. How fast can you get it before you nod off and throw up in your sleep? Hey, I got a scheme where I tell guys I'm a cop when I- Guys pick me up thinking I'm a prostitute and thinking I'm going to blow them. Then I tell them I'm a cop and I won't arrest them if they give me $100. Hey, you win, $100. I better hurry.

She did it on there. You got to find the dope man. That was a good scheme, man. It worked. It worked, man. If you don't find the dope man before the shit kicks in, you're a mess. That's the other thing. You're going to be crippled on the street.

Which is why they let dudes blow them and everything else on the street. And that happens all the time, which is another thing I don't understand about drugs. Working against the clock. Once you have five minutes left, you better fucking take your pants off. That's right, man. Jesus Christ. So anyway, he stole a hutch from a barn. Unbelievable.

And then he steals an amplifier from a church and sold it to a pawn shop. That's filthy. Don't steal from a church. sold it to a pawn shop. That's filthy. Don't steal from a church. I am not a religious guy. If anything, I don't talk about it all the time, but I'm not really into religion or whatever. But if it's good for you, go crazy. Go nuts.

For me, it doesn't work. Don't steal from a church. There are people at least, no, people gave money to get that amplifier for a good cause and you're stealing. The church itself is stealing from the government by not giving money for the amp is probably now these people can't hear the right fucking your kids sing in the choir or whatever the hell it's leaving people they're working on donations yeah jesus christ i'm familiar it's not that yeah you didn't steal from saint patrick's cathedral no you know like that priest diddled me there 20 years ago and i'm gonna take this

that'd be different this is just i bet I can get 50 bucks for that amp. Pathetic. So in 1995, he was in Madison, Connecticut, and he was doing work at a private residence and stole a woman's checks and tried to cash them. Oh, what a dick. From the place he was working. Stupid. I mean, crackheads, there's no forethought.

It's just, there's checks. I could make these. Well, there we go. I'll write them, and then I'll just get money and crack. You could have pulled the word for out of there. Think about it. Yeah. There's no forethought. It's just, there's checks. I could make these. There we go. I'll write them, and then I'll just get money and crack. You could have pulled the word for out of there. Think about it. Yeah. There's no thought.

It's just check equals crack. That's the thought they have. This equals, I could get crack for this. So, yeah, 1996, he was in Brantford, and he and some accomplices trashed a motel room and soaked a mattress with water, ripped up phone books, and just basically did a Motley Crue on the room. Except they're not rock stars. And no one likes them. And they did about $500 worth of damage. And can't pay for it, so you get arrested for that.

That's the thing. Motley Crue could do that, and then they write a check, and they don't get arrested for it. But the mattress is usually soaked with female ejaculate. it's soaked with urine maybe you know what i'm gonna take their side for a minute maybe the mattress was already soaked with urine they said we need to flush this through soak it down so the urine comes out and then they had to rip up a phone book to put on top of it because it was wet yeah to make a bed of ripped up phone book you know what you can see you can see how we got from A to B. It's all it was.

So I could take their side on that one. I'm not sure. But then, something I can't take their side on, 1996, he and an accomplice stole cameras, tapes, records, documents, and jewelry from a Guilford residence and then pawned them. That same year, he stole a phone and a leather backpack from a car in a parking lot in Guilford also. So he likes to steal shit. Don't leave anything unlocked here. In that whole

thing, he stole credit cards and a wallet and he attempted to use a stolen check at a jewelry store to purchase thousands of dollars worth of jewelry that he was, I'm sure, going to then sell for 50 bucks. Some shit like that. It's hilarious. He thought he was going to get away with that. then sell for 50 bucks. All right. Some shit like that. It's hilarious.

He thought he was going to get away with that. A crackhead wanders in. You can pick a crackhead out. A crackhead wanders in buying thousands of dollars in jewelry. I'd like several items. You know what? I'm really, I'm trying to change my look. I'm going for a more of a Liberace thing.

If I could possibly see that bracelet, that big medallion, you know what? I'm going to take those. You take checks, right? You don't need ID here, I'm sure, right? Yes. My name's Tabitha. I'm perfect. Yeah, this is great, right? No problem.

So he tried to do that. And then he and an accomplice later on in the year were charged with, so he goes from the great jewelry heist. He's like, well, that doesn't work. I better try something simpler. So he steals bicycles from garages. Oh, what a dick. From open garages like an asshole.

So he just turns into one of those scumbags. In 1997, he's charged with stealing jewelry from the family of the mother of his child. Very nice.

He is a scumbag, man. Very nice. He's a crackhead. He is a through and through crackhead. This is crack behavior. Absolutely.

Absolute crackhead behavior here. He saw, then they couldn't find it and they figured it comes later, that he sold all this shit for drug money, obviously. So stole all their jewelry and sold it, and they couldn't get it back. He also had other run-ins with the law in 1997. He was in North Brantford, which is also in Connecticut, and charged, arrested after he cashed $740 worth of stolen checks. That's not wonderful in uh in hamden in 1997 he was charged after stealing and pawning jewelry and other valuables from a girl

he was dating he admitted to pawning these items to buy heroin so very nice in 1997 new haven police saw him purchasing heroin and he was arrested after fleeing from a police officer when they found him. And in 1999, he ran from police who pursued him and they charged him with possession of crack cocaine. Of course. So after all this, he over the course of this seven, eight years, he does about four years of prison time in here and spotted in six months here five months here two months there

over you know over a pretty good amount he's in there a lot when he's not in he's out and he's getting making figuring new reasons to be in plans to be back yeah he's really checking it he really puts it on his schedule i'll give him that he does so it's all about the crack so he he goes in for a while after this 1999 arrest he's in prison until august of 2000 so locked up august of 2000 he's released from prison and he uh wants to start a new life now he wants to start a new life he's been in jail and he hasn't been doing drugs in jail and his sister jennifer says quote he looks healthy and he told me he's going to kick drugs so this was it for him he said i that's a long and if you started

as a teenager by the time you get into your mid-20s and you go to prison for it you might be tired yeah that's the thing they've run its course these guys have to get tired or else they don't stop or they die or they die that's but it's a tired thing they have to get sick of it because it's an exhausting thing and sometimes when they still have the energy you're not going to stop anybody but he seemed to be running out of energy with jail and they said it kind of calmed him down everything was fine uh october of 2000 in this area there's a 20 year old young lady named mindy lee she is uh in connecticut for a while visiting family from texas she uh disappears she was last

seen at the guilford fairgrounds where john cafferty and the beaver brown band will be i'm sure rocking it out this year at the ag fair so uh the the way this goes on she just disappears she's last seen there nobody knows what happened to her and she's not from the area so it's kind of like well we don't know i mean she disappeared but she's not even it's not like she's always here. Who the hell knows? She could have taken off on a moment's notice. She's on her way home. Who knows?

Walking. She could be hitchhiking. She could be riding the rails. I mean, she's an adult. She could do what she wants. So they don't know. But they have suspicion that she's gone because she's pretty reliable. She has a child as well.

We'll talk about. She's got a two-year-old daughter. So for her to just disappear is not a normal, a normal thing like this. So much so that the police talked to Jonathan Mills about it. Yeah. They want to talk to him. They don't know anything. They don't know what happened to her, but they think he might know because he had been seen with her and he had been kind of sort of seeing her a little bit here and there, as we'll talk about here.

But they talked to him but they don't have any cause to arrest him they don't even know what happened so they're just whatever so they they do execute a search warrant for his house and everything like they really look at him as a suspect but they don't even know what a suspect for just in a disappearance they look for traces of her and things like that they find nothing nothing you know not nowhere near enough to either be put together a case or make an arrest or there's no evidence here. So nothing happened here. Mills,

Jonathan, is living with his aunt, a woman named Donna Kyle at this time and a bunch of other family members there live there. And what is described as a, quote, small sagging wood frame house. Oh, Jesus. It's kind of, I mean, he's kind of the white trashy part of the town

where a lot of the town looks down on him i'm sure type of thing you know aunt and charlie buckets and a bunch yeah a bunch of the family they all cram in yeah they're charlie buckets they're shit buckets i'm sure there's all sorts of buckets going on in this house here crackhead charlie bucket crackhead charlie buckets oh boy hey man hey man you got that golden ticket man hey dude dude dude what do you got we got that, man. You got that golden ticket, man. Hey, dude. Dude, dude. What do you got? We got that Wonka, brother. You got that Wonka. I'm looking for that Wonka, brother. You got that Wonka? Because I'm looking for what you got. What do you got there? What's that? Is it under here? What's that ticket? Hold on a second. I'm looking for the Wonka. Jimmy,

is that? Hold on. Where's that shit off of there? My ticket's under there. Stop it. I told you to leave my fucking ticket alone. Oh, my God. Is that a payphone? I bet I could make a key to open that. That was my friend's plan, by the way. What? They poured a fucking, they tried Is that a payphone? I bet I could make a key to open that. That was my friend's plan, by the way. What? They poured a fucking. They tried to make a payphone key mold because it's all a semester key. So their idea was to steal a payphone, get all the coins out of that, but make a mold of the lock of the lock and make their own key so they could go around and open payphones and just be. I don't know. Kings of crack, apparently.

Turns out, though, those keys are pretty fucking hard, and they couldn't get a hard enough steel, literally, to mold to make a mold. Every time they made one, it would snap off, and they couldn't do it, and it would get stuck in there, and they'd have to get pliers. They had a fucking smelter that, like... Yeah. Oh, dude, they stole other shit.

You should have seen this. It was a whole operation. This is crack ingenuity. They were just... They're like, melt down chains to make a 24 karat key i remember thinking like if you put all this effort into like anything you know a lemonade stand you would make a fortune any business if you put this effort into it you would make a fortune you could live a life jesus you fucking idiots so instead yeah uh this is what happens here. Now, this house happens to be next door to Mindy Lee's brother-in-law.

And next door to the brother-in-law is Mindy Lee's father, Bruce Lee. Yes, Bruce. It's L-E-I-G-H. But his name is Bruce Lee. And he's 51 years old at this point. So this was well before Bruce Lee. So in the 70s he's like oh shit what the fuck i could roll with this fuck it oh he's a bad motherfucker bruce lee yeah that's right

yeah i think he got a little mileage out of that somewhere there's a heavy dude named chuck norris that's like yeah yeah yeah i'm pretty bad at that's pretty tough even that guy he can go by charles norris charlie norris he's bruce lee can't help it so kick-ass so uh yeah next door to that guy that was bruce lee where mindy has been staying mindy lives in texas she's been staying with her father here so uh jonathan mills lives basically two two doors away from mindy that's how they why they think they know each other also jonathan met mindy at a backyard barbecue in the neighborhood at bruce lee's house he he put on quite the display broke a bunch of boards you should see when he does a barbecue he takes the tray of meat in his hand when he's done off the grill and then

he does a display of kicking through boards punching through shit all without dropping a chicken thigh it It's impressive. You got to see it. The balance involved in it. He cuts the steak with the fucking side of his hand. He chops it down. And he slices it. It's not just one in half.

He gets sliced. It's all even. It's what nobody can believe. Salt Bae ain't got shit on Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee's barbecues are the best in the neighborhood. That's why the neighbors come so they met about a backyard barbecue last summer because uh uh they were outside you know just hanging out and i guess one of them went over to smoke and the other one was smoking too and got to talking sure and they were around the same age he's in his early 20s she's in her she's 20

so whatever she's like he's like is his name really bruce is he that cool though let's find out so her brother-in-law said that she's from texas uh everybody describes her as a uh a good girl uh who's been living with the family here for a while but was soon to be returning home i think she had some problems because with her with her relationship because she was uh going home soon to quote be with her fiancee uh but we'll find out i think probably they were probably having some issues and maybe that's why she was there they have a two-year-old daughter together as well okay so now it's a mother of a two-year-old is missing it's a it's a problem so uh after this though after october of year, that's when she disappeared in October at the fairgrounds. Jennifer Mills, who's Jonathan's sister, noticed that he was starting to do way more drugs again.

He started getting drugs again. She thought he was clean for a good month or two there. And all of a sudden, she's starting to see the telltale signs of crackiness starting to come through. He's drinking again, everything like that then she says he starts using drugs on a daily basis this is right around this time uh all of this so yeah so people are kind of suspicious of him and like i said on november 14th police interview him a couple weeks after this in connection with the mindy lee thing they searched his home they seized things to do tests on and dna and wipe it down and look for blood and all

that. And they never found anything and they don't charge him. Yeah. But it's a small town. And this girl's disappearance is a big deal because there's been no murders since 1964. Right. So this girl disappearing is a huge deal. And everybody knows that the police have talked to him.

So it makes him, you know, Scarlet Letter big time on him. Like at this point point he's working as like a part-time as a mechanic a little bit as a concrete laborer okay he just got out of prison he's doesn't have a lot going on in the job market for him really and he got fired uh well one time he got fired for stealing this is after obviously and another time they just said everybody was uncomfortable having him around because you know he was a homicide suspect or a disappearance kidnapping suspect or something might have happened to that girl. And, you know, guys kind of want to cave your head in with a monkey wrench when you turn around. So not good to have you on the job site today.

A lot of heavy fucking machinery and tools around. Yeah. This big fuck here threatened to push you into the concrete and just just pour right over you. So I would leave if i were you yeah it's a bad place to be have people mad at you put it that way so uh they don't end up like i said no arrest of jonathan mills for the mindy thing he just you know goes on his on his way on his cracky merry way smoking crack and christmas time comes around all right and uh christmas time crackhead at christmas boy. I mean, that's like...

Cracky Christmas. Cracky Christmas is wonderful because you get food and you don't even have to hustle for it. Right. That's why crackheads don't eat that much because if you have 10 bucks, you're like, okay, well, I can eat or I can buy crack. Yeah. Well, I'm going to buy crack and then later on I can eat food. Right.

But then you're going to need something else later on, so it never ends up happening. Right. But this is like free food. People give you gifts. you probably got some shit you can hawk i'm sure you can steal presents from children it's wonderful just a great time of year for a crackhead the whitney and bobby christmas album oh cracky christmas december 26 the day after Christmas here, 4pm. Jonathan Mills is in Guilford, and he travels to New Haven. He's with a friend of his, a guy named John Prokop.

We'll talk about him later on, too. They are on the way to New Haven. Why do you think they're going to New Haven? They're going to get crack. They're going to get cocaine and heroin. They're like, let's get both. This will be fun. They have a little bit of money in their pocket, so they're going to get a little bit of both and have some party time this is like crackhead's dream and on the way they're drinking beers in the car because you know when

you're on the way to buy crack and heroin what's a fucking open container who cares what's the beer between us there's just no logic it's just whatever you can stuff into your body at however long every day until you fall asleep on the floor. That's all it is, man. So they end up purchasing heroin. They went to a parking lot where they each snorted some heroin. They each had a bag that they snorted. That's dangerous.

Well, they like to snort. Snorting rather than sniffing is, I guess, it's better than IV. I knew kids that did heroin a lot in high school, too. New York was fucked up, and they were mostly snorting. Then they got into shooting later on. Because you only snort for so long, and then that's not good enough. Unless you're already lying and you let your nose close up. Well, he likes his Coke, too.

But the heroin people, they would snort for a while, and then it's like, but it's ten times better this way. So they end up shooting it, and then once you shoot it, you're not going back to snorting it. Why would you do that? It's the difference between shooting a bullet and throwing one it's not very different you know what i mean so yeah it's it's that's that's the progression but they're sniffing heroin at this point i had a girlfriend that did that in high school really yeah it was weird that that's a bit much yeah i didn't i wasn't into that at all i was like that's that's too far coke was a coke was about the line that i'd go in high school.

I didn't like Coke, so I wasn't into Coke-y people. But seeing somebody do Coke in high school was about as far as I wanted to watch. I didn't want to see anybody doing heroin. I didn't want to see anybody snorting or shooting. Forget it. This was a surprise. Oh, really? Snorting was a surprise.

This was your girlfriend. I didn't know. You were real close to this one. I did not know. You were so close to her, you were inside her. She just did it, and I was like, that's weird. I don't know. You were real close to this one. I did not know she did. You were so close to her, you were inside her. She just did it, and I was like, that's weird. I don't think I like that. It didn't last too much longer after that.

Boy, this is uncomfortable. This is weird. I'm not a real druggie person. I like weed, but otherwise, I'm fucking not. Even keel. I'm very clean as far as shit goes. I don't even drink really. I'm very whatever.

You've got nicer bottles of whiskey than I do. That's what I mean. And I drink a lot. Yeah, I keep as shit goes. I don't even drink really. I'm very whatever. You've got nicer bottles of whiskey than I do. That's what I mean. And I drink a lot. I keep my shit proper. The heroin's a little too much for me. It's going a little too far. They sniff in the parking lot, him and Procop. Then they go to a bar and buy some more Coke.

What the fuck here? Then they each snort two bags of Coke. They said they're little bags here, I'm sure. Then they go back to gilford to pick somebody else up to pick a chick up that they know here hey i got a chick i'm gonna pick up here this girl named michelle idarola uh this woman and they all get high together so they pick her up to get high with her uh the three of them drank beer and snorted lines and had a good old time sounds great that's some fucking christmas spirit right there. Let's do this.

I mean, you're snorting lines, you're drinking beers. If you're into this. Connecticut, it's all white outside. Merry Christmas, babe. This is good shit. Yeah, they're doing all this, and then they end up going back to New Haven. A lot of gas they're putting in this car, too. That's the other part.

Back and forth and up and down. Who does that? So much. Crackheads. Yeah. Crackheads. That's who does it. When you party, though, you fucking sit still. No, no. That's what I do. Crackheads have to go up and down. Who does that? So much. Crackheads. Yeah. Crackheads. That's who does it. When you party, though, you fucking sit still.

No, no. That's what I do. Crackheads have to go up and get more. Yeah, I would be a bad crackhead because I'd be like, okay, I'm not going to get any crack until I can afford a whole bunch of crack so that I can get it and then go home and I don't have to keep going out and get crack. That's why I'd be a bad crackhead because I, you know, and then by then I would lose interest and spend the money on something else.

That's the thing about those drugs, though. It fucking makes you want to do shit. I don't want to do shit. No, I don't. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do anything. Ideally, I want to do nothing. I don't want to do this show right now.

Get out of my house, Jimmy. Leave. People, get out. Turn it off. Get out of my mind. No, but seriously, this, yeah, I don't want to do all this cracky shit. It's exhausting. Oh, my God. hearing about it is terrifying his day from four o'clock this is now they snort lines and do all

this uh we'll talk about this here so they they go back they pick up michelle they drink beer they snort lines and they go back to new haven get some more coke then they return to gilford where they drink more beer and do more coke and then at 10 30 uh mills jonathan mills drops his friend michelle idarola and joe prokop off so he drops them off so that was just the last six hours god damn it they went there scored sniffed in a bar sniffed in a parking lot went to a bar got some coke got that went there got her picked up more did some then picked up more drank more beer did more coke then dropped them off now what's he gonna do in six hours it's time to go to bed yeah that's what i'm saying jesus christ uh at this point they drop them off idarola uh and mills have another beer and then uh then she ends up going home and going to sleep that's that so

mills though he's like well fuck me i'm not tired no it's 10 30 i've been doing coke all day long i'm not tired he see he needed to start to lower the coke intake and up the beer intake at that point to get tired right but people do that and they have to balance it out he was doing too much on the coke side not ready to go to bed uh he has a friend that uh he thinks that he can get more drugs through that's the other thing that crackheads do is it's a lot of calling and a lot of i know this guy who's it's like a lot of like uh a lot of things that are really like far-fetched or like long shot ideas like i have one friend and i don't know if it's still true but two years ago he knew this dude who lived three

towns over who had some weed so if i call him and he can get if they get these crazy fucking schemes going on. I only want a little bit. So I know I got somebody around here. All right. How much money do you have? Oh, none. Fuck. Oh, OK.

They're still going to get ruined everything. So, yeah. Anybody with a closed bank account that still has a jewelry and open car. So he has a friend in North Brantford. It's a woman named Sharon Coll cauley and she knows a coke dealer here so jonathan mills calls cauley three times asking for a ride to her house and she's like i'm not picking you up i'm not picking you up and i'm not picking you up she keeps declining because it's late at night and she's got a crackhead calling her to say pick me up and

bring me there so i can get more crack which which sounds exhausting. Should I just take me to get crack? No. It's fucking 1030. No. No. So at this point, he has both no money to go to her house and no way to get to her house and no money for drugs. He's got nothing. Okay. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm

and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro,

who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Not a goddamn thing.

Then at 1 a.m., you know, an hour and a half later or whatever, he calls Ida Ida Rola, his friend that he dropped off. Are you still up? Yeah. He calls her saying, hey, I got a car. I got more money. Let's go buy some drugs. He calls her from his aunt's house which is strange how does aunt get involved in this his aunt lives on the street too this is his not it's just his former

aunt by marriage who still he still kind of hangs around and whatever so uh this is katherine kleinkopf is her name she goes by kitty she is 43 years old uh she works for a cleaning service she has three kids she has a 10 year oldyear-old, a six-year-old, and a four-year-old. The six and the 10-year-old are girls. The four-year-old's a boy. So she's got her three kids and there's a crackhead at her house

at one o'clock in the morning using her phone and whatever. So yeah, this is why you hate... If you have a crackhead relative, you don't want them living in your neighborhood at this point. So apparently he picks up idarola and he is driving uh kitty klankoff's car uh he's driving her car and he tells uh he tells that uh he they drive to an atm where he goes and gets money

out of an atm well okay so he gets money out of ATM, and then they drive to Cauley's house. Again, this is Sharon Cauley, the drug friend in North Brantford. They get there at 1.45 a.m. So he went from having no car and no money to car and ATM and money. At 2 a.m. At 2 a.m. Wow. So crackheads are magicians sometimes.

Sourceful as fuck. Absolutely. So Cauley's dealer, the one that she knew she knew call brings over 240 worth of crack oh okay 200 crack that's a lot of crack but i guess not that much crack too yeah but it seems like enough crack if i saw that much crack i'd be like that's too much crack like what am i gonna do how about half of that for me it's way too much crack because any crack is too much crack but i feel like if you're a crackhead yeah that's just like looking at like make a big mac meal it's a few days at the old number one is all it is it's just like hey look at that it's a meal a few days my ass uh at this point 45 that should

be enough let's talk about it well think about what they've done so far it's more than one person too so it's the two of them yeah they it's so they're consuming 240 worth of crack jonathan mills ida rola michelle ida rola sharonawley, and Michael Cawley, who's Sharon's husband. Because he's got to get something out of this if he's got crackheads coming over at two in the morning because they're friends with his wife. Waking me up with a crackhead in the house? Give me some of that. I'd like some. But listen, if you're going to have other men calling you at two in the morning crackhead men and coming to my home, I'm getting cracked, too.

Just know that. Okay? I have standards, goddammit. I'm a king of my castle. I was in REM sleep, goddammit. I was in REM sleep. I got a mortgage. So over the course of about the next two hours they smoke all the crack two hours two hours

240 worth of crack done gone gone crack not bad not bad at all so at that point uh sharon stays home and michael the husband here is like well i'm up already let's go get more crack so michael cauley jonathan mills and michelle idarola drive to west haven uh to purchase 240 more crack from the same guy golly if you're a crack dealer this this would be the most because you just sold somebody 240 worth of crack you went to sleep maybe it's two o'clock in the morning and then at 4 30 they're like i need exactly that much crack again that's got to be the most annoying thing exactly buy it all at once. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Jesus. And you know how fast you go through $240 worth of crack. You knew it was going to be two hours. You knew you'd want more. Come over here. You're getting two hours more out of this? Yeah. It's at this point that, well, the three of them are there.

Because the first time, it was just Mills who talked to the dealer. This time, all three of them go to see this dealer, and they all hear the dealer tell Jonathan that, hey, this money's not all covered in blood like the first money you gave me. What the fuck? That's weird. And all Jonathan says was, no.

No, it's not. No, no, it's not. You are correct. And no one else asked any questions nothing nobody said why was the money you gave him covered in blood jonathan no one said that they just went we're getting crack now that's how good crack is apparently it's just we're having crack it's still worth the same amount minus the blood right blood whatever crack crack crack crack yeah it's worth that much crack still right do I get extra crack for blood?

No? Shit. I'll go soak it if you need it. Let's do it. So they go back to North Brantford and smoke all the crack, along with a bunch of Vicodin still, because now you've got to start to come down a little bit. I mean, how much crack can you smoke here? So he's been on at least 480.

At least a lot. He's at least 480, but whatever he's done all day. He's been on quite the binge yeah uh so now he's just about out of money but he drives with michelle idarola to new haven at about six or seven in the morning so what do you think he's doing there jimmy no there's a diner that he says has the best omelets in all of gilford you are not gonna believe this can fried steak. So crispy, but light still.

That's the thing. They're crispy, but not like hard. You bite into them and they're just crunchy and delicious. No, they're going to buy more crack. What? It's 7 a.m. Enough with the crack, man. Well, we passed the sleeping hours, so we've got to be awake now.

Well, now I've got to smoke crack so I can be up all day. I've got shit to do. I'm going to go pour some concrete. I need to go to work. Wow. So luckily he's not. So he wants more drugs. And then he drops Michelle Iadarola off.

He drops him off. And then he then returns, takes Kitty Kleinkopf's car to a parking spot in Guilford and parks that there. Over there. About 8 a.m. here. He's still out and about. Now he's just out wandering the streets, by the way. Walking around. Yeah, because he drops the car back off.

About 8 a.m. Jonathan Mills is walking around. He runs into a man named Charles Santanello. Now, this is at a bus stop. He runs into him. Crackhead at a bus stop. He runs into him. Crackhead at a bus stop at 8 a.m. Now, they don't know each other. These two have...

This is how amazing crackheads are. You know how it's funny, like, if you watch a nature show and you see animals do shit on instinct, and you're like, that's fucking amazing. How do they know how to do that? How do they know to just do that? Like, their brain tells them they have to do that now they know things they know when a storm's coming yeah super weird right the crackheads have this too if you smoke enough crack you get a weird animal instinct these two charles santanello and and jonathan mills never met in their lives don't know each

other within before the bus gets there they they they suss out that they're both crackheads and team up literally in a matter of minutes in the fucking morning there's probably people in ties with their computer bag on their shoulder going to work these two fucking guys

figure out that they're crackheads not only do they figure it out they talk to each other about it and become a new crack team. Right. Just in a minute at a bus stop. The Red Ranger and the Blue Ranger. Now they just need the yellow, pink, and green.

We're on a roll. We are cracking Power Rangers. We're the crack Rangers. Here we go. What is happening? So they never meet. Immediately fell up. They're in it.

So, wow. One's a copper stripper and the other one. It's ridiculous. The other one's a scrap metal guy. This is Bubbles and his friend here, the kid from kids. This is Bubbles and his boy. And this is exactly what it is, where he's telling him, man, you're still green. I got to get you brown.

He's got to get him schooled to the game. Everyone's brown. So that's what he's talking about here. Yeah. So these two hook up. They try a couple different people, and they eventually, when you put two crackheads together,

you really get a big crackhead. They obtain 13 bags of crack. Wow. It's not bad. That is impressive. 13 bags of crack from a crack dealer on Grand Avenue at 11 a.m. 11 a.m. too.

This guy's like, fuck. That's when he's got his inventory. He's about to go to lunch too. In a few hours, he's out. He's going to be out now, especially if they get 13 bags. They got 13 bags of crack. It seems like a lot of crack. Even if it's just like a hit, like the one big hit, that kind of rock, that's a lot of

hits of crack. It's plenty. Seems like a lot for the day. But 11 a.m., they go to an abandoned house. They find an abandoned house and they smoke a bunch of rock. That's a lot of hits of crack. It's plenty. Seems like a lot for the day. But 11 a.m., they go to an abandoned house. They find an abandoned house, and they smoke a bunch of crack. This is very cracky behavior now. Now you're sitting in an abandoned house, basically turning it into a crack house. With a stranger.

With a stranger. Yeah. Like, we're now best friends. The only thing you know about him is his name is Charles, and he smokes crack. And he's good at getting crack. And he can help me get 13 bags of it. The two of us together are a hell of a team. I mean, these two should hook up more often.

So they do that. Once they smoke all that crack, you know, they don't just say, oh, well, you know what? It's getting late. That was a fun day. It's about noon. I got to crash out. Pleasure to meet you, Charles. Tell you what.

Here's my information. And I'll give you my email address, too, because sometimes I don't hear my phone. So if you just email me, I'll definitely get back to you, at least by the end of the day. I know they want more crack. Yeah. They're like, how do we get more crack now? This is so much crack. I mean, what the fuck, man?

So much crack. So much. So they want more crack. So they go to a dealer named Annie. Like, all crack dealers are named Annie. It's a uh go to a uh a dealer named annie like all crack dealers are named annie um it's a great name for a crack dealer no one will ever suspect you ever suggest where's the crack annie police kicking the door we know you got crack annie i'm just annie i don't have any crack she's right annie's not annie doesn't have crack where what are we what are we thinking so uh they wanted more crack so they find annie and now he's mills has no money they have no money at all but what he does is he

persuades annie and his pals here that the next day he can get money from an atm oh so if we just give me a bunch of crack now tomorrow i'll obviously just come back and pay you we're not going to buy more money more crack with that money i'm just going to pay you pay you on tuesday for crack today for a crack rock today yeah that's how it works it's it's wimpy the crackhead that's what it is so uh yeah so they they and somehow they agree to that uh annie agrees to sell mills and santanello uh crack on credit so this is like it's a crack for credit program that she's running uh which is never good never give a crackhead shit on credit because they you'll never see that no no well you're thinking when are they going to pay me and they're thinking i bet i can get into that pay phone

and steal money to get more crack never mind you i'm gonna pay this bill in quarters that crack's already smoked loose quarters yeah so jesus just hand pockets full so uh sells him a bunch of crack at that point mills santanello and annie along with another person that we don't know his name they just all call him the uh they all call him the spanish that we don't know his name, they just all call him the Spanish Kid. I don't know. That's what he's known as. Party monster? I guess so.

Yeah. Macaulay Culkin. There you go. Spanish Kid. Yeah. Right there. So they go to a house at this point on Poplar Street. This is the house of a guy named Bobby Esposito.

While they're there, they play cards and smoke more crack. Is Bobby the Spanish Kid? No, no, no. Spanish Kid, they go to. There's another Spanish Kid. Yeah. while they're there they play cards and smoke more crack while is bobby the spanish kid no no spanish kid they go to there's another spanish yeah he might know maybe that's how they know bobby esposito he's like hey my uncle lives here and then they go there i don't know what the fuck happened but they go hang out with bobby esposito so when he left when he dropped his friend off he doesn't know any of these fucking people first of all he's never met any of these people he doesn't know any of these fucking people, first of all. He's never met any of these people. He doesn't know Chuck, Santanello. He doesn't know fucking Spanish kids, Annie, the crack dealer. This kid doesn't know any of these people.

Have you ever had a day like this? Never. You just go with somebody you don't know and just meet all these people? Never once. You don't know? It just never happened to me. That's dangerous as fuck. Yeah.

So he goes from 7 a.m. not knowing any of these people to by the middle of the day, he's hanging out at Bobby Esposito's house playing cards and smoking a bunch of crack that he bought on credit from a woman that he's never met before. Again, this is crazy. Wow. He is there until 11 p.m. Yeah. So think about this.

He stays there. So now we just know this whole thing started at 4 p.m. That's not right when he stays there. So now we just know this whole thing started at 4 p.m. That's not right when he woke up. So he has been up for at least, what, 31 hours at least. Two days, James. Smoking enough. At least two days. He's been, well, we'll put it this way.

He's been doing drugs for 30 hours at least. Straight hours of doing drugs. Coke and crack and heroin and drinking and everything else. It's been 30 hours of that. Who knows what he did before. And while you and I are blown away by that story alone just that that piece of this we have listeners that are ex-drug addicts they're drug addicts because you never stop being yeah yeah that probably have this as like a saturday yeah well yeah they're like i remember this

bad times you guys so scared bad times man bad times jesus so they are there until 11 p.m and they only leave because annie's got no more crack to sell left they smoked a whole a dealer's entire crack supply on credit on credit they're like at a casino going more chips yeah fucking bring them sir you're already at half i don't't care. I'm good for it. Annie's reckless like the housing crisis. Annie's been smoking crack with him. So Annie's a crackhead too. So the problem is when Annie sells it on credit, she also gets to smoke the crack. So for her, she wants to believe it because then she gets to smoke all her crack.

So it's great for her. In her mind, she's like, maybe I get money and to smoke all this crack. This is great. So now it's midnight. Okay. Midnight. Now, December 28th. We've gotten to because we went through the whole day of December 27th and now we're there.

So they these four idiots go to Bobby Esposito. I'm sorry. Annie Santanello dipshithit uh mills and the spanish kid go to an atm to get more money okay that's what they call them what do you want from me it's in court documents spanish kid they go to an atm to get more money out of uh mills mills has this atm card and the card's denied and uh annie is pissed because they went to get her money because they were waiting till midnight. That's the whole point. Wait till the next day so he can withdraw the money out of the account.

So he's like, wait, they go to midnight and he goes, okay, I can go get your money now and it's denied. And she's like, well, motherfucker, you better have my money because I don't know what's going on here. I'm sober and now out of crack. Yeah, now she's super pissed and she wants her money. So Mills here, Jonathan says, okay, we'll go to my house in gilford and we'll get some money or we'll find something there a value that i can give you collateral something we'll figure this out right so the

four of them get in the car and they uh they drive to gilford they're in a car by the way owned by that esposito guy's mother who he's definitely never met because he only just met this esposito right what the fuck so now you show up and oh yeah there's this guy i don't know this is his mom's car this is my crack dealer on credit and this is the guy i met at the bus stop and what's your he's a spanish kid here yeah how you doing it may not be racist but it's certainly lazy and insulting and funny too really funny but that's what i'm saying like you ever go out with a bunch of people they just called you italian kid no i've never hung out with anyone and called them the spanish kid either although if you're a crackhead and you've never met him although you know what his brain is firing

off on all synapses so yeah so uh cards so they go there uh this was a bad idea once they get there we'll find out why they pull up and they park. Once he gets out of the car, he pops out of the car and a bunch of cops swarm him like, like Henry Hill and Goodfellas. He's back out of the driveway to go get dipshits hat. Right. Fucking. Yeah,

that's what ends up happening. Guns drawn in the whole fucking shit here. Why is, why is this happening? Why are guns drawn? Are the, is this the crack squad in full command? No,

they're looking for him because uh uh the morning this the the 27th in the morning uh 10 year old alissa klein cough came home from a sleepover at a friend's house down the street and discovered her mother no and six-year-old sister and four-year-old brother stabbed to death in the bedroom of the home a 10-year-old found that uh 10-year-old oh my god her entire family like that oh jesus uh found them bloody as can be uh all in the master bedroom in one in one bed in one area here as much of a waste of life as that is hers is just as bad it's so bad that's that's four victims that's it's fucking horrific uh katherine uh kitty kleinkauf here she's 43 years old she was stabbed 45 times my word 40 so they're like this is this looks a little personal here this isn't your typical

you know it's over the top this is a lot and the kids six year old six rachel and four year old kyle were stabbed six times each. Oh, my God. Again, a little much. Too much. Too much. Too much crack. Too much stabbing.

Too much everything. The police official, under the condition of anonymity, just said, quote, it was pretty bad. That's all they would say. Bad scene. That's about the worst scene a human could see is that, I would imagine. You don't want to walk in and see that. For a 10-year-old to see that. Oh, God.

And to have it be her family, that's about the most horrible thing ever here. So they look into some things here. And a lot of people, they were looking all over the place. They were just looking who's close by, who might know. And Mills' name keeps coming up, that he's down the street, that he had come over. Because they were saying, would anybody have been trying to rob her? Would anybody, whatever. And they said, well, Mills is always trying to get money from her.

And that sort of thing. But a lot of people describe her as they say that he used to, Mills used to hang out with her kids and took their kids to the beach one time. And they were, you know, things like that. But then other relatives said he was in jail and he didn't really know the kids. So it's like they're not getting a whole picture when they go to investigate here. Everybody liked Kleinkopf. She was a beloved person. She works her ass off.

Everybody said she was really hardworking, single mother. She loved her kids. She was struggling. The house she lived in was owned by a church. Okay. like uh you know what i mean that does that yeah that's what i mean she's like it's a tough life man it's tough and she worked for a cleaning company i mean she wasn't she's working her ass off trying her fucking best to to do well for three kids here uh yeah so uh she also has another daughter who's 22 years old who has a son too so she's got a grandkid also so there's a lot here.

Yeah, it's brutal. So she is dead, obviously. Her best friend said she could make you laugh so hard you couldn't catch your breath. I met her in the eighth grade and she locked me in a locker. We've been best friends ever since. She loved to read. She loved philosophy. Jesus, life, and she loved her children.

She mothered everybody. So that's kind of the best painting I can get of her. She's just a woman that everybody really liked. So they discover in the house obviously the three dead people there and the contents of a pocketbook were strewn about.

That's the only thing that was really askew in the house though. That's why it didn't look like anybody trashed the house. It looked personal based on the look like anybody trashed the house it looked personal based on the number of stab wounds and they went directly for where where money is and that's it then that's it and so yeah no signs of forced entry and all of that and they knew that mills was uh was kleinkopf's you know ex-nephew by marriage so they knew that she he knew her and she he'd been around there uh so by this

time the police also they drag idarola in to see if she knows anything because she's been with him she tells the police here that uh he called her about 1 a.m uh from kleinkopf's house and she said that that mills told her quote kitty had lent him the car. So it was a Ford Taurus, and that's what Mills picked her up in. So according to her, according to Ida Rolla, Kitty gave him access to her ATM card and let him borrow the car. Hi, crackhead, it's 1 o'clock in the morning. Take my ATM card and car. I'm sure everything will be fine.

You have been trying for three hours since 10.30 to get crack. I'm so proud of you. But, you know, I feel terrible. Let me help. At least take my car. You know know what i'll pay for the crack on me tonight no uh so yeah she tells the police ida rola does here uh tells him that they purchased hundreds of dollars worth of crack she tells him that whole story she said she's known mills for about 10 years and that he's constantly committing thefts to support his drug habit and she said yes it was unusual for him to have kitty's car at one o'clock in the morning

like not unusual maybe for him to have it once in a while but definitely not at one in the morning you know not even having it the night before just i don't have a car and then one in the morning i do have a car it's a little weird here so they also interview sharon and michael cauley yeah the the crack den house there uh sharon cauley says you know she tells him about his the drug binge while it while she was with him she said also at about 11 15 the previous night uh mills called her and said this is before everything called her and said that he was quote getting money and the bank card from his aunt that lives down the street yeah that was before so he said i'll be there soon i gotta go get money for my aunt down the street and so michael cauley the the husband there also said that on the second occasion they

went to purchase drugs that he said that the dealer told mills this money doesn't have blood on it like the other does and mills said no so So this is all coming in the picture a little bit much here. Very much like your friends going two weeks from smoking crack, having fun, to cigarette machine payphone. Yep.

This kid kicked drugs. Done. Done. It's over. Yeah. And in a month, from sober to murder. From two months to

I'll kill my aunt and my nephews, my niece and my nephew, children and everything because I need more crack. From sober to a bloodbath. And it's not even like he didn't have any crack for a while. Like, I haven't had, children and everything because I need more crack. From sober to a bloodbath. It's not even like he didn't have any crack for a while. It's like, I haven't had crack in two days and I need some snack.

He's been smoking crack all day. He could have just been like, I've had enough crack today. That's enough crack today. I'm going to go, yeah, I'll go have three beers and try to pass out. Wow, man. You know what I mean? What the fuck, dude? So, yeah, obviously, Jesus Christ, man.

They left, they actually knew that he was a suspect earlier in the day when he was driving around and had called a public defender already to have him on the ready for him. Like, yeah, you're probably going to get a call because we're going to arrest somebody for a triple homicide. Going to need you today, sir. There's that. So anyway, they call him in and they said they would do that for any suspect in a triple homicide. It's just the defense lawyer, the public defender had asked the police, if you arrest anybody for homicide, can you give me a ring? Give me a heads up on it so I don't have to then get a call from them. And it's going to be for me, obviously.

I'll be the first one they talk to, probably, unless they have a lawyer on retainer, which most murderers don't. Usually with murder, you see public defender. Yeah, that's what ends up happening here. Because murder trials are expensive as fuck, too. They're so expensive. That'll cost you $100,000 for a mediocre lawyer. Shit, no.

Who's got $100,000 in the fucking bank? So Ullman here, who's going to be his public defender, is considered a conscientious attorney and was very much into defending and helping any clients here. So they talk about how once he gets in there and he's a suspect and they arrest him or they pick him up. And then they also want to talk to him. Let's talk more about Mindy Lee, too, while you're here, since that's a problem here. So they work on the detectives know him. Also, the whole police force knows him.

They're like, we know you. You've been in here a million times. You've been arrested 23 times. And I think like 18 of them were in this town. So the police chief, when they talked to him, do you know this guy? He said, we're very aware of him. Like, we know him. Pretty familiar.

Anything that happens, he's the first guy we look at. We know, put it this way. We know what size Crocs he wears. If anyone steals an amp from a church, he's the guy we're knocking on his door put it this way we know what size crocs he wears if anyone steals an amp from a church he's the guy we're knocking on his door first we got his croc size we know his smock size we got it all down here everything from crocs to smock we know what he wears yeah you got it so jesus christ so that's that's that's where this ends up happening uh one of the police officers here they they talked to the esposito guy and uh he said that uh esposito told the police officers here they talked to the Esposito guy and he said that Esposito told the police that he was with the John guy

that he knew as John and they returned to Guilford to get money for drugs and he said that he heard rustling at the bottom of the hill turned, look this is what the police said, he went to talk to Esposito and ended up finding Mills he said he went to, they they talked esposito first and esposito sent them here because they had drove here with the spanish kid as we remember when the cop got here he heard rustling shined a flashlight and he saw jonathan mills and he pointed his gun at him and told him to keep his hands up which you know that's a contentious

moment there uh so they he finds out that mills is unarmed and puts his gun away and uh and tells Mills to sit on the ground for a minute and relax. And just we got to figure out what happened here. They didn't handcuff him at first. They told him he wasn't under arrest or anything like that. But he's not free to leave. You can't get up. You can fucking sit there for a minute. But that's as much as you're going here.

So a police officer stayed around him all the time at this point uh he asked for a cigarette and nobody all he asked for is a cigarette nobody asked him any questions he's just sitting on a curb right and he just says quote i can't take this shit anymore i'm going to tell you guys everything wow blurts it out from the curb they're like huh okay uh he says he's asked by a police officer if he wants to talk to the police do you want to talk to the police he said yes so he walks over to a police car voluntarily he says i want to talk to that guy uh uh then he says he uh then he said out of nowhere he's going to make the police shoot him and said that i said i'm going to make you guys shoot me like you're going to hate me so

bad he meant it was a weird way to put it. And he said that he would also tell them. He said, I'll tell you everything about last night and I'll tell you about Mindy, too. Oh, so like, oh, OK, because they didn't know what happened here. They said he was agitated and out of breath from his walk up the hill. And they asked him if he could go. You know, we're all going to go to the police station and talk. He said, yes, that's what I'd like to do. They they frisked him. They drove to go to the police station and talk. He said, yes, that's what I'd like to do. They frisked him.

They drove him down to the police station. He's, you know, he's not under arrest yet, but they're just, they want to talk to him. They want to see how much he'll say. Yeah. Whatever. Give him a rope to hang himself with. Go ahead, sir.

Exactly. Yeah, here you are. Tie it on up. He basically knew he was there. He had no transportation to leave the police station and all that sort of thing once he gets to the police station they take him to a conference room he's not handcuffed one of the cops leaves briefly and the other cop asks him what's going on uh his name is jowett the police officer it's his last name and mills replies

quote i fucked up for real jowett so yeah you did boy i would say so yeah so then the other cop comes in hutchinson he's the other cop he comes into the conference room here and there's another detective here from the connecticut state police and they kept the door open the whole time so it wasn't like a they didn't bum rush him or anything phone on the table everything they gave him a coke and a pack of cigarettes and let him smoke and drink Coke. At 2.15 a.m., he signs his notice of rights form. This is his waiver, his Miranda rights form, saying that he understands and he's going to talk anyway. At 2.20 a.m., he signed a separate notice of rights form that is just this police department's notice of rights form. It's like an extra one they put on just in case you sign ours and the Miranda rights, everything here.

This one is this one sets aside his Miranda rights and it's initialing. It's initialing a waiver of each right saying I want to make a statement to the police right now. So they offer him the use of the telephone to call his lawyer. He wants to do that. And he replied, quote, I don't want to call a lawyer. I just want to get this over with and tell you guys everything. Which, okay, sounds great. My job's easier than it was.

I thought it was going to be a difficult one. You've got yourself a deal. Sounds good, sir. I'll hang this phone up. So he was not informed of the public defender's offer of legal assistance. They had called that public defender and they told him we might pick somebody up, and the public defender said, hey, I'm ready to come down there as soon as you pick him up.

And they didn't tell him that, but they're also not obligated to tell him that, as you learn in the homicide book. They talk about that. You have to ask for a lawyer. The lawyer can't ask for you, and there's a lot of rules. You have to be saying, I want a lawyer, and they have to be refusing.

That's what you're obligated for. They offer, you got a phone right there. You want to call your lawyer? Yeah. Yeah, they didn't say, we have a lawyer for you. Because, I mean, he doesn't have a lawyer. But he could have said, I'd like you to get me one. Right.

I don't have one. Can you get me one? Yeah, he's been through the system enough. This isn't a kid who's never been arrested before. I don't know what to do. He knows the fucking routine. He knows that if he needs a lawyer, they'll get him a lawyer. So he says that he didn't do that.

He declined to give a videotape statement saying he did not want his mother to see it later. He didn't want his mother to watch it. Oh, I know YouTube's coming. Don't put this on YouTube. Exactly. Well, they played on the news, too, and he knew that. He said that he knew he was going to Northern, which is a maximum security jail there, and he asked for Hutchinson, Detective Hutchinson's gun, to kill himself.

He said, can I have your gun to kill himself? And obviously, they don't give him one. Well, I can't do that. Sure, Chief. That'd be great. There you go, pal. No, no, there's one in the chamber.'t even cock it just boom safety's off just just pull point and pull you're good i don't even want to give you any warnings about this because you want to do this unsafe as fuck here hold on boom i got you there you go so you need a hand yeah i got you

covered he didn't take they said you know they just kind of ignored that and blew over it here. He also requested to be, at this point he said, can I be transferred to a different prison in another state? They're like, dude, you're not even under arrest yet. You have to like get under arrest, be convicted, sentenced, sent somewhere, and then you can request to go somewhere else. But this, you're way ahead of the game here. We need to know what happened. He says says he then tells them that he couldn't believe he killed those kids just to get high oh jesus which is

disgusting uh he said that there were he said that there were many times he wanted to quote call you guys the cops to tell him to tell you what he did he said he would the cops listed him as alert coherent speaking clearly but somewhat excited you know coming down from a day and a half of crack basically is what they could have put on there uh he begins his formal statement at 220 he says he couldn't wait to confess he they said he spoke rapidly uh they had to stop him periodically to tell him to go back and slow down and say slow down crackhead you get a crackhead telling you about an entire crazy day and murder and everything. You know, he was eager to answer questions.

Yeah, he might skip a detail here and there. Crackheads are eager. That's the thing you got to give them. Like I said, if there's a job and, you know, there's nothing for them to steal and it's just you could make them do and you could harness that crack energy. There's like horsepower. If we could harness crack power, that's what we need to do. Oh, that's a, that's a, you'd only

need like a 50 crack power car. The power of 50 crackheads. That thing's fast. That goes like 220 miles an hour. A 50 crackhead powered car. Yeah. Because horsepower is out of date. But it'll take a left turn when you least expect it. Oh, you have no control over it. You have no control over it.

And you'll wake up in the morning and it'll be gone and parked in front of a crack house, which crack house which has been a bad neighborhood it's super weird uh so yeah they told to tell him to calm down uh he was eager though they said that he was organized and clear and his tone was similar that he had used answering police questions in less serious crimes in previous years so they said this is just how he is except for the excitedness uh he was the only thing he was reluctant to identify was when they started talking about the kids of course uh he was he didn't want to say which kid he stabbed first you know because it says you stabbed kids it's a bad fucking look uh he says quote the kids woke

up and were screaming so i stabbed them them. That's what he said. He didn't even want to stab her. He just wanted to steal money. But then he had to stab her. He had two knives, by the way. Oh, good Lord. Two fucking knives. So if you go with two knives, you're planning some shit, or you're at least open to it.

At least mean business. You're open to a suggestion at that point here. He wrote down, they wrote down his words in a statement. At 3.30, he signed a five-page statement saying everything he did uh he signed a statement with about the triple homicide and then they said now let's talk about mindy yeah okay uh so at 3 50 a.m he starts confessing to that too uh he says that he killed her after a consensual sexual encounter at the fairgrounds uh he told police that he had concealed her body and uh told them exactly where they could find it they dispatched officers immediately to

try to go find her her body and turned out he knew exactly where that body was for let him write to him uh they didn't know they didn't know that she was even dead at this point they didn't know that she was dead they didn't know a fucking thing until they found her in the woods uh so he signs this statement we'll talk about it concerning that uh at 4 25 a.m uh after he signs the lee statement he's finally formally arrested then they you know they take uh they take dna sample they take fingernail scrapings from him he's taken to a cell and later on for arraignment we'll talk more about the mindy lee thing in a minute the town freaks the fuck out well yeah that's a serial killer they go crazy over this shit uh they go down to the this reporter there's this one i think it's a hartford

current or something they go down to the dunkin donuts on route one jesus to talk to the a group of women who have gathered there and uh they gather most mornings for a cup of coffee after exercising and club fitness. So these are the ladies that are scared shitless of this thing. They're going to break in and kill me now. Oh my God. They're the ones that are going to push Casey Anthony down the stairs. We're talking about these women.

They're going to get together and go, I don't care. Damn it, I've had enough. I'm not going to see another child hurt. I'm not doing it. This will be the last one. No, Stacey, no. This is going to be the last time I'm not going to see another child. I'm not doing it. This will be the last one. No, Stacey, no. This is going to be the last, last time she's going to do this. So, yeah, one of the women's here, a Connie Joyce. She sounds like it.

Be the name I'd give one of them. A lifelong Guilford resident. She says she's never locked her door. She says, it's surreal. I'm completely shocked. You don't ever think that happens in Guilford. I can't believe there's someone in our town who's capable of such a gruesome crime. Her daughter,

a 21-year-old college student, she said, quote, you live in a town all your life and you think everyone's the same type of person, but no one lives in a bubble. There's not even black people here. Look around you. Look around. There's 1% Jewish people fine, but you look around there's one percent jewish people fine but you know what we've been pushing to get them out for years so yeah it's gonna change

the fuck is happening in this town what is going on uh yeah so uh the waitress there at the hidden kitchen restaurant uh a pam sharky she says that uh uh she felt the worst for Alyssa, the 10-year-old, obviously. She said, quote, this child is being deprived of her childhood and the police must be devastated. The fuck are they devastated about? They've got a job. They're fine. They signed up for this. They moved on to the next thing.

That girl didn't go, I'm 10. I get to find dead bodies now. Yeah. That guy put on a badge and knew exactly what he was going to go find. Jesus Christ. I guess Mills had been working for a local concrete company recently, and an acquaintance of Mills, who didn't want to be identified, said the company fired him under suspicion of stealing an air compressor from a work site that they were on. That sounds right. Yeah.

That sounds right. Yeah. The owner-operator of the Deli Unlimited convenience store and Sunoco gas station on Boston Post Road said about Mills, quote, he was always kind of a troublemaker. Yeah. He remembers him visiting his store as a teenager. This would mean small town in the city, they'd be like, I don't fucking know. You buying something or getting out? What are you doing?

These guys like, you know what? I remember him coming in when he was 14. He liked Hubba Bubba, watermelon, I think. Fucking what? How much of a piece of shit do you got to be in there that the clerk remembers you? King-size Snickers all the time. Yeah, it's a small town. He says that he often caught Mills trying to shoplift and eventually told him to stay out of his store. Which should have taken twice, I would say.

The first time, all right, he's a kid. I'll let him go. Second time, you're a shithead. Get out of my store. A lifelong friend of Mills says, All right. He's a kid. I'll let him go. Second time. You're a shithead. Get out of my store. Lifelong friend of Mills says, quote, It's just a tragedy. I don't know what happened. I can't for the life of me figure it out.

This person said that he saw Mills a couple of weeks ago and nothing. He said he, quote, noticed nothing unusual about him. He was smoking crack, picking at his scabs. It was just like regular old Jonathan. He said, I'm just doing this for fun. Tried to pickpocket me. You know how it goes. A lot of fun.

He said he's known Mills for 10 years. He said the two were, quote, really good friends in the past, but they drifted apart after Mills went to prison. You know. He says, quote, I don't know what happened to John. He did a lot of time in jail and it changed him. He was a different person. He seemed like he was trying to make up for lost time. No. And smoke all the crack he could have smoked while he was in there jail didn't do that so crack did that crack you want an answer for i don't know what happened crack crack fucking

crack and then you know what else crack crack crack also a lot more crack tons of crack uh yeah when the police first questioned mills about lee's disappearance mindy lee they also questioned this friend and the friend said that he he thought mills was totally innocent he says quote i swore up and down he never could have done anything like that i thought they were just shooting in the wrong direction uh he said that uh he was also close to klein kauf this man really he's a friend of the family and he said he visited her weekly he said quote i was just over there at her house a few days ago playing with her kids she was the best mother you ever saw she did everything for her kids so yeah people are freaked out uh the town selectman sam bartlett the first selectman sam bartlett he says quote some people are concerned that this incident will

change the character of the town i don't think it will change the character of the town, but it's time for the town to show its character and draw more people in to volunteer and help people who need it. We've got to make something good out of a bad situation. We've got about 6,000 children in this town, and raising them is a big responsibility. We're too tolerant of drug use and other crimes. You've had one murder since 1964.

Slow your fucking roll. Relax. We've got 6,000 kids. We need somebody to parent all of them anybody they've got parents sir calm down i'll take from noon to one will anyone take one so yeah uh the case they have against mills i'll start at 8 a.m i love breakfast but i seriously be there by nine because I have fucking plans. I can't stay longer than 9, 10. 9, 10 is my hard out. I got to go.

Someone replace me. Tommy, I'm looking at you, you lazy fuck. Yeah, you like kids. I know you do. Get over here and help me. 6,000. 6,000. Just so you know.

It's a lot. So make peanut butter sandwiches. No, they're all allergic to it again. Never mind. We need volunteers, he said. Jesus Christ they're all allergic to it again. Never mind. Jesus Christ. So the case against Mills here, they talk about his pattern of stealing money to get drugs. They talked about him going there armed with two knives and then entering the bedroom to steal her ATM card.

They said he stabbed them basically as they woke up. The woman woke up first. Kitty woke up first, stabbed her 45 times. And while you're stabbing a woman and she's screaming and fighting you next to her sleeping children and blood's flying everywhere, they tend to wake up. And as they do, he starts stabbing them, too. He says he knew the PIN number because Kleinkopf had sent him to get her cash before. So he knew her PIN number, which is interesting. He told police that he called Kitty earlier because he knew she had money and beer. He had called her earlier in the night. He told the cops that he told her a made-up story

about how he got into an argument with his father and he needed a place to sleep. That way, Kleinkopf left the door open for him. So he had a place to come crash because she's a nice fucking lady. And even though they're not even related anymore, she's going to give the guy a place to crash. Nice fucking's a nice fucking lady and even though they're not even related anymore uh she's gonna give the guy a place to crash nice fucking lady man uh this is ridiculous uh kleinkopf sister nancy uh philiot i think is the way you'll say her names she says she doubts

his claims she said quote kitty has been missing a key to her house and has been missing things oh that's what she says uh things have been missing from her purse that's why she started keeping it in her bedroom that's why he was in there uh she missing from her purse. That's why she started keeping it in her bedroom. That's why he was in there. She was suspicious of him. Mills is a thief, a murderer and a liar. My word. So she has no.

She doesn't like him at all. I feel like she has a real, real thought, concrete notion of what he's all about. So she has certainly passed judgment. I would say thief, murderer, liar. That about covers it. It's all of it there so let's go back to october 2000 and talk about mindy lee here uh apparently mills says that uh he strangled her to death uh he says that jesus christ basically he told police that he didn't

intend to kill mindy and that it was quote a mistake which he says the other ones were not a mistake he says that they went out drinking uh that night and gilford they went out drinking with his sister and a friend it's october 10th he said he hooked up with mindy lee at about nine o'clock and they went for a walk and uh the four-year-old nephew of of mindy lee told police that he saw jonathan mills and mindy leave together the night she disappeared so that's why they were questioning him to begin with. He was apparently the last one to see her. Now, according to this, they walked to the Guilleford Green

and ended up at the fairgrounds. So bad kids. See? The Green. Town Square. Bad kids. They kill women and leave them in the woods. So they stopped to talk and kiss. They were kind of hooking up. They were liking each other. She's got a fiancé in Texas. I mean, I think she was trying to get away from the fiancé

or something because, I don't know, you don't hook up with a dude in a park if you're super into your relationship. But I mean, I'm not judging her or anything. I'm just saying why she was in Connecticut to begin with here. Not that it matters, but so they would stop and talk and kiss during the stroll. They had a real

moonlight serenade. Fuck yeah. Sinatra's playing. Hell yeah. I picture more of the Sex Pistols. No, no, this is very sweet, I feel like. Because it's a crackhead. Yeah.

You know, and a chick he met at the barbecue. So it's very Moonlight Serenade. Nothing dirty about it. He's got a fedora on and a tie. Right. He wore a tie for this, Jimmy. No, not at all. So apparently they ended up having sex on the edge of the fairgrounds here.

And he says that everything was fine. Then he says afterwards they got into an argument. And he says he admitted insulting Mindy to the point where she punched him in the chest. So, okay. You've already had sex. What are you arguing for? Why are you calling names? If you're not happy, shrug and leave because you're not married to these people. Either way, either partner can say that.

Or if you are, I don't know. What do you care? What do you give a shit? Why are you arguing with her for? So he says he retaliated. First of all, how many times have you had a woman punch you in the chest? So many so many times a lot of times you know how you retaliate uh you walk away get away from me you go the other direction hey uh he instead grabbed her by the throat okay with his white right hand and pushed her onto the ground and uh he says at some point he realized she'd stop moving

and he tried calling her name and slapping her face but she didn't wake up you know because she was dead she's just murdered yeah so he says he freaked out put her body over his shoulder and carried her over an embankment and later by a fence they found her above ground and in the woods she wasn't buried or anything like that uh he then said that he snorted a bag of coke you know because you know you got to get back to normal here, grabbed her jacket and pants and panties and left for some reason. I guess he thought that would identify her or whatever. He says he tossed Lee's clothes in some woods near his home, which they never found. And then he sat down and smoked one of Lee's cigarettes before throwing the rest of the

pack off a bridge. Wow. Because they were hers. You don't want to hang on to those. Yeah, so they were evidence. So he smoked one of them and threw it down. Now, the next day, he talked to police and gave a sworn statement that he had been home the night before watching a Yankee game. See, he told you Yankees fans in this area. He said he then returned to the fairgrounds and to the body

and said he realized she was dead after that, and he threw down his hat and a bottle and moved a piece of cardboard over the top of her body. That's what he said he did. He was like, oh, man, she's dead, and threw down his hat. God, dag nab it. Oh, dag nab it, exactly, like Roscoe P. Coltrane. Them damn Duke boys just got away. Vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom. Dip, dip, oh, dag-nab it. Exactly, like Roscoe P. Coltrane and damn Duke boys just got away.

So, yeah, her friends, Kleinkopf, Kitty's friends, they say to police that she questioned Jonathan Mills after Lee's disappearance, too. She said, you knew that girl. They're all in the same neighborhood. But he denied any involvement. And Kleinkopf didn't believe he was capable of murder. She said he couldn't do that. He's a crackhead and an asshole and a thief but come on uh she's a nice lady so apparently he had spoken he'd only seen mindy a few times he only knew her from the barbecue and then they

kind of hooked up that day and that's how that ended up happening and we don't even know if they had consensual sex or what we have that's just his story i'm not who the fuck knows what happened so uh he uh mr lee or bruce lee right bruce lee said that he believed that uh jonathan the whole time he always thought that he was responsible for his daughter's death he said he was just going to kick a hole through his chest but he figured it'd be better to let the police sort it out on their own i taught you and you know i taught mindy that is this six inch punch so that's probably why he got so pissed that's what it was. I mean, it probably broke his sternum. I'm not going to lie, because she could go right through a board.

She was a bad bitch. Like, no problem. So, yeah, she's found above ground, wooded area, at the edge of the fairgrounds, closest to Old Whitfield Street, which was about a half mile away from him. A chief medical examiner performed an autopsy, comparing a palm print of Lee's provided by the police with one taken from her body. Because luckily it would happen. Luckily, but this happened in October. So it wasn't hot out.

Right. Decomposition was a lot less. And they ended up getting a palm print out of her. Right. And they made a positive identification. They had her palm print on record because she had been charged with risk of injury to a minor child in July after her two-year-old daughter and her nephew were reported outside their house unsupervised playing in the yard. And that girl's got a record for that.

So, yeah. Somebody saw that. She could have literally went in to pee and then some guy. It's ridiculous. Meanwhile, Casey Anthony can get pregnant. Anytime she wants. Any fucking time she wants. So, after all this, like we said, he gives them, Jonathan Mills gives them the information

that leads them to Mindy's body. He's charged immediately in the triple homicide, and then he will be charged later with Lee's death as well. Prosecutors indicate that they're probably looking at the death penalty here for all this murder. A lot of murder for no death, I would say. It's murder heavy. It's murder centric.

It's murder strong. It's leaning. It's like heavy on top. It's top heavy with murder. It's like an ice cream cone with way too much on top, and it's going to fall. That's four scoops. Yeah, it's not going to work. Four scoops always.

Three is enough. It'll give you problems. Yeah, even two. Even three, you're going to lick it, and it's going you'll be super careful you're gonna you're gonna lose you're gonna lose some too sturdy yeah so uh yeah he's also charged with robbery burglary larceny and fraudulent use of an atm and a bunch of other credit card crimes as well uh the judge orders him held on a bond of two million dollars uh which he does not have and he can't get a crackhead to front him so his debit card was

declined he called that charles santanello guy and he's like hey i know we can get 13 bags of crack without money how about two mil and a bond so uh post arrest post arrest he writes a letter to his parents mills does then he says quote i am so sorry for the way my life has turned out it's nobody's fault but mine i chose this road it was my choice to do drugs i could have i could if i could give my life back to bring them back uh there wouldn't be a moment's hesitation is what he says somebody tell annie i'm not paying her back yeah by the way uh annie's fucked uh you know annie you know crack at annie i i hate that he says i wish i had i wish i hadn't done drugs because that's not why those people are dead i mean yeah

well it's the root but i know so many crackheads what the fuck didn't kill people right that's the thing people that have done a lot of drugs and never fucking killed a single person but it does cause this is my great-grandmother who was murdered there's murder by crackhead yeah crackhead came in her house and tied her up cut her throat look for shit didn't have anything to take but that was that because that's and she's still dead fucking crackheads no no she came back to life uh about 92 lived another 15 years and then we buried her again it's happy ending everything was great so yeah uh the police chief said quote clearly this is something that does not exist or occur very often in a community community such as guilford our

community is very disturbed by this. We'll be feeling the effects for quite a while. So, yeah, I guess so. He said he went out of his way to assure town residents that the guy that they thought, basically, that this guy, Mills, is the killer. The problem's caught. Child killer taken care of. He said, quote, to put it simply, it's been solved.

Like, don't fucking worry about it keep keep leaving your doors open everybody now mills's mom on the other hand she's got a different point of view she says quote he's been in trouble but he had gotten straightened out he loves kids he was great with his nieces until he's i'm sorry that's a bad time to say that yeah that's a bad time he loves kids. That's a bad time. He loves kids. He was great with his nieces. Then he also stabbed one of them and his nephew, too. He was really great with them. He put him down.

Jesus Christ, man. Lord. So the trial starts. Prosecutors here, they're arguing that Mills was not because he's saying it was a drug-induced haze. He didn't know what he was doing. You know, mitigating, mitigating, mitigating. They're saying not a drug-induced haze they said that he noted to take steps to cover his tracks he concealed the knives he did all this different shit they get a state's witness they get michelle idarola to be state's witness

she'd been his friend uh uh you know it's it she says she told investigators quote i still cannot believe that he just murdered kitty and these and the kids because he was so calm and quiet he showed me no signs of what he had done i don't even think he was that intoxicated when he picked me up after 1 a.m so that's their that's them saying he wasn't too high to know what he was doing because at 1 a.m he wasn't even high anymore that's why he was trying to kill people to get money right if he was on crack if he was fucked up he wouldn't have killed anybody he'd have been happy he'd have been happy yeah so they're not fucked up yeah pile of crack happy right no crack stabby stabby that's what happens so uh yeah uh so in a statement here john pro cop who's the guy who was with him his friend there he served as state witness also he said he's been

doing drugs with mills for years he said quote pretty much any drug we could get our hands on. I never witnessed John be angry or violent. John was a big time thief, though. Big time thief. No one disputes that here. Horrible thing to say out loud. I've been doing drugs with him for years. Anything we get.

He literally said pretty much any drug we could get our hands on, quote, years. Years. Just as much as we could do. Never violent. Big time thief. Now, the jurors don't get to hear his entire criminal history though because that's character shit unless he introduces it they can't introduce it so while uh his defense mentioned in court that he's responsible uh basically they they mentioned that he's responsible for another death the jurors don't know what he's talking about so it gets brought up but they're like what's that mean so it's not looking good for him they uh they can't use the prosecutors

cannot use mindy lee's death as an aggravating factor here because he doesn't he's not going to be convicted of that until after this court case so uh mills uh the police statement makes reference to the use of drugs after the lee murder not before so that would cut him out of that you know using that defense for that case. During this trial, the jurors hear from family members. They hear from Mills' father, Merton Mills, who's a recovering alcoholic. He said he brought his children to bars and taught Jonathan to steal copper from industrial sites and then pawn it at junkyards for money.

He taught him crack skills. Unbelievable. That's literally what Bubbles does. You don't teach your child how to's literally what bubbles does you don't teach your child how to be bubbles you fucking don't do that that's literally what most crackheads do no now i will say i was raised in they used to bring me to the fucking bar all used to hang out at dive bars when i was a little kid i hated it but fucking uh no one ever then said let's go to the the industrial site and steal copper and then sell it at a junkyard right we'd go home afterwards jesus and now because that became such a popular thing to do you can't just sell it has to be stripped now oh yeah so much fucking work it's

a lot of work if you're gonna teach your kid today you're gonna fucking have a kid with some calluses by the time they're nine they're gonna do something easier yeah uh his lawyer jonathan mills lawyer said quote there is no question that if he hadn't been raised in a dysfunctional family, his chances of being a contributing member of society would have been good. Yeah. The mother told the court that the father

verbally abused him. Verbally abused him when he was a kid. Oh, no. Father didn't. So what? Telling him he was no good and would never amount to anything. Yeah, it sounds like every Italian father. Hey hey you're no fucking good you're never going to amount to nothing that's how you motivate your kids in new york sounds like every person in the that was born in 73 everybody i've ever heard you know how many times i've heard people yell that at my friends you know good bastard you're never going to amount to anything uh fucking loser she also claimed that

the father used his belt for discipline now and then that's gonna say my grandfather used to whip that shit off yeah uh his lawyers say he's a changed man yeah he said he's a man who's been driven by one thing for years and that's a desire to get and use drugs uh years of run-ins with the law and all this just shows what a what a big time you know thief he is and uh they said now though the the Mills they've come to know is a completely different person. They called it a metamorphosis. Metamorphosis. They said when he first came in, this is public defender, quote, when he first came in, he

was in full junkie mode. It was very obvious. Over the past four years, because this trial is four years later, I have seen a healing process. So? He killed two kids. I don't give a shit. He didn't heal. How much he's healed. Let's fucking open that wound back up again, two kids i don't give a shit he didn't heal how much he's healed

let's fucking open that wound back up again then i don't care they should give him crack for like a week just to get him hooked so he has to detox off of it again just because it'll hurt that's what they should do i swear to god can you inject someone with enough coke so where it'll make you get have have like fucking uh withdrawals but not actually get high can we do that to him every once in a while, give him a taste. Re-addict him every six days. Every like two months,

just re-hook him. So then he gets, spends the next two months just grinding his teeth, wanting crack. And then when he's finally kicked it, and he's like, that's better.

Right in there again. Force him. Wow. So his other attorney says, being in prison has finally helped him kick the drug habit. And quote, he's a nice guy with a big heart.

Now that he hasn't been on drugs for years. So, oh, boy. They said he doesn't even smoke anymore. He's not even cigarettes. He's not allowed. He's been clean. I'm sure of that, the guy says. He says it's like his brain.

His lawyer says it's like Mills' brain is healing from the years of abuse. Quote, his whole personality has changed. I've seen a metamorphosis he's ashamed of what happened he's cooperative and pleasant from the beginning he was remorseful and having nightmares about what happened and that's continued to this day well isn't that terrible he said quote he's not a raging bull yeah no no and you're not a scientist either because guess what doesn't heal fucking brains that's yeah you can't regenerate brain cells yeah well then his lawyer said quote he's had several detoxes like two or three days

but he's never had a long-term inpatient program even when he tried to apply for programs there we never had there were never any beds no one can say if it would have made a difference but it couldn't have hurt drug addiction is a disease and not an easy one to beat. Well, so is murder. It's a bad disease. It's really hard to beat. It's really hard to beat because they're dead. The police chief after the court proceedings here, this is the retired Chief Kenneth Cruz. He was chief from 86 to 2002, and he knows Jonathan Mills real well from that whole time. He talks about the whole thing.

that whole time uh he talks about the the he talks about the whole thing he said mills was on top of the suspect list anytime the crowd town had a quote crime wave yeah which is like some shit getting stolen out of someone's car getting broken into a lot he says quote he is a conniving little scumbag that's the police chief to a reporter with a tape recorder i like that guy i like you sir he's a conniving little scumbag he always has been and he played that jury like a fiddle it's inconceivable that one illegal behavior his drug abuse could justify another illegal act the murders uh there won't be a christmas when i don't there won't be a christmas when i don't remember those two little kids and it's the same for a lot of my police officers this is uh this guy gets to have a roof over his head and three meals a day.

All those kids get is a headstone. Oh, Jesus. They should have brought him out in court. Closing argument by this guy. And then he says that. He's a conniving little scumbag. These fucking kids, all they get is a headstone. The jury would have been like, oh, my God.

Guilty. Kill him. Kill him. He is more grim than Karen. Yeah, he is. Grim. Fucking grim. What is he? The chief. grim chief cruise gee grim kenneth actually because he's grim kenneth kenneth crew grim

kenneth we got grim kenneth and grim karen you are not gonna believe this oh grim kenneth that is my uncle's name are you kidding me married to karen no that's karen's brother oh my god and then kathy's the other one put up on kathy grim karen grim kenneth and my mom kelly hold on let's try it in the voice fucking amazing this guy gets to have a roof over his head and three meals a day all those kids get is a headstone yeah he's grim he's grim kenneth he's true and i like him but shit's grim brother it's grim uncle katie aunt karen aunt kathy i'm so sorry oh my god that you guys are being drugged through the mud sorry guys it's not you you it's a whole new thing now the fucking greatest thing in the world. The fucking Shriners.

Jesus. All of them. Oh, my God. Un-fucking-believable. Nobody likes this Mills guy. Mindy's brother-in-law, who lives two doors down from Mills, or did before he was in prison, he says, quote, I think he should be put to death. He is a very sick man.

You can see he was disturbed. We suspected him from the beginning because he was the last person to be seen with her, but he denied knowing anything about it. Now, Mills' lawyer, he says he spent years representing people who faced the death penalty, and he just got to know a different guy than everyone's talking

about here. He said, I know Jonathan with clear eyes and a clear brain. I got to like him. People may think I'm crazy, but I consider him a friend. Hell yeah. Yeah, I think you're crazy. Yeah. I agree. I am on board with you.

You're crazy, sir. So during sentencing, somebody gets to speak. And someone who definitely deserves a voice here. Alyssa. Oh, Jesus. Ten years old at the time. She is now ready to talk to this guy in court during his sentencing. How old is she now?

Fifteen. Oh, for fuck's sake. And full of piss and vinegar she's angry rightfully so boy angry alissa oh angry alissa is fucking mad let him have it alissa anyone should be pissed off it's this young lady here uh she says quote and she had her whole family there i give this kid credit for having the ball yeah to stand up in court to somebody that slaughtered her whole family and say exactly what she feels she said quote every quote, every night I fear that someone will come after me while I'm sleeping. I'm constantly wishing that my life could be normal where I wouldn't have to cry myself

to sleep at night, wishing for my mother to be there to comfort me. Half the time, I don't even know if I'm crying for those I've lost or for myself or for what Jonathan Mills put me through in general. She says she called him a, quote, cheap, worthless scumbag. Everybody with the scumbag. I like this kid, man. She said, quote, a lot of people in prison don't like baby killers.

I hope they come and pay you a visit. I hope you burn in hell. After today, I won't waste any more time on John. He's not a part of our lives anymore. He's a part of the past as of today. I'm lucky to still be alive and where I am. I will make a difference in the world. John Mills may have been able to take away some of the people I love most,

but no one will ever be able to take away the memories of them and the ones I hold in my heart. Go fuck yourself. She should have added go fuck yourself. It sounded like Chief Kenneth wrote that for her. It sounded like she's just been hanging out with Chief Kenneth. Hey, Uncle Kenneth, let Uncle Grim Kenneth talk to you for a minute here. But I like that girl. To get up in court in front of all those grown-ups and all these people in press

and the fucking guy who killed your mom and your sister and brother, and to say that at 15. Trying to figure out who she is still. Yeah, that is ballsy as fuck. And I'm glad she got to do it because she'll at least know that she got that out for her whole fucking life she's ceo of something she's gotta be jesus uh he looked back at uh the family over the table there and uh when the judge asked him if he would like to address the court he said yes he does he said quote i know you hate me for what i've done i hate myself what i did is still in my head every day. I have to live with that.

He asked him to give him the maximum penalty. He said he believed the lethal injection is the easy way out of ridding his mind of the crimes and the life in prison would be worse. He said, give me the full extent of everything. It doesn't matter. It will never bring back anybody. And then afterwards

he was done. They let him make another statement, which is weird this he made a he was allowed to make a statement to the jury do you have another request i do he was allowed to make an unsworn statement to the jury which is only the only person i've ever heard that's allowed to do that was oj was allowed to say that bullshit before i just want to get back to my kids and all that shit he was allowed yeah you have to you have to be you want to make a statement get up on the fucking stand and fucking make a statement to the jury that's the only way you're allowed to talk to them is when you're sworn in that way you can be

cross-examined then uh he says though to the jury quote i'm totally responsible for this i just need to let you know that i'm sorry so he does say that but that needs to be more on the record than that uh they do convict him of triple murder here and every other goddamn thing he is, everything he does here, and he is sentenced to the death penalty on the table. You, sir, may fuck off. Three consecutive life sentences. That's worse.

They spared him. Well, not only that, they said he had a lot of mitigating circumstances. They said that his childhood, his drug addiction, his remorse, and his willingness to take responsibility warranted a life in prison later on. So he's in prison. He appeals later on a couple of ticky-tack legal things of whether when he signed the waiver rights, whether the cop should have told him that the lawyer was ready for him and waiting for him. A couple of ticky-tack things, and they're all denied, all the appeals. They tell him to fuck off.

They're like, dude, come on, bro. You know how much, dude, bro. There's three. And then the other one. Remember the woods? There's three at one, and then there's another one out there. This is a pattern. This is a lot.

This is a pattern. It's too much. Yeah, it's too much. Too much. Sorry. You can't do that shit. So, yeah, he's life in prison here. So that goes by.

Now, the weird thing is you meet weird people in prison. Yeah. You just do because, you know, there are a bunch of other people who have done bad things. He ends up being cellmates with a really bad guy. Is it one of those Cheshire guys? Really bad. Not one of the Cheshire guys really bad not one of the not the pettit cheshire murders no and we would never do that one because we've had people ask

us to do that we're like every podcast is so famous it's very famous uh william uh william devin howell ever hear of him no uh well uh seven people uh disappeared in 2003 2003 while he was mowing lawns and working other odd jobs. This was a Joyveline Martinez, Diane Cusack, Marianne Meneford, Melanie Ruth Camalini, and Marilyn Gonzalez, Danny Lee Wistenot, and Nilsa Arizmenti. Are all those women? Well, not Danny. Okay. Danny's a guy.

Three of the bodies were found in a wooded area in New Britain, Connecticut, behind a strip mall in 2007, and the other remains were found in the same location last year, like the year before, in 2014. Okay. So this Howell was convicted of murdering Arizmendi,

Nielsa Arizmendi, and is serving a 15-year sentence in his cellmates with Mills. Okay. Now, he tells Mills a whole bunch of shit. Mills is then brought in as a witness for the prosecution here in a probable cause hearing to go to trial for these these seven killings now uh howell originally was from virginia like i said he was in there he killed all these different people as we as we know according to the arrest warrant here uh he had told a bunch of prison inmates that he killed seven people and uh one of whom's one of whose body he kept for two weeks in a van that he called his murder mobile gross he had a van that he called his murder mobile. Oh, gross.

He had a van that he called the murder mobile where he had all his shit in there set up, DNA everywhere. The DNA of six of the seven victims were found in the van. My God. So not great. The thing is, anybody who helps bring him to trial, anybody who has information, anybody that testifies against him, there's a reward involved, Jimmy. It's $150,000. What? And this makes Mills eligible for a $150,000 reward.

He had apparently, apparently Howell asked Mills to help him commit suicide in jail. Howell's nickname is Hillbilly, by the way. I like it. Yeah. He says, quote, Hillbilly wanted to die because he thought the police were going to arrest him. We're going to charge him with the other seven. I guess he said that he was going to try to overdose. And if he couldn't overdose, Howell wanted Mills to suffocate him in the cell.

Mills said he'd do it. I mean, I'll kill you. Don't get me wrong. I'll kill a kid. I killed two kids. I got nothing. He said, but he insisted that How'll leave a note saying where his seven victims were buried which is actually interesting that's an interesting thing yeah uh howell then

started talking about the murders and uh basically he even drew a map to where all the victims were buried so he gets all this information so prosecutors are going to use these exchanges to bring howell to trial for these seven murders. Howell apparently told another inmate, quote, there was a monster inside of me that just came out, which is what he said. He described himself as a, quote, sick ripper. That was Howell's name for himself. And then he said when he went to sleep,

he was going to dream about his seven. Yeah, and he buried them in what he called his garden. That's what he called it. He's fucking disgusting, this guy. He said he wrapped one victim's body in plastic for two weeks because it was too cold to bury her that's fucking grounds hard it's rough uh he said he he kept the he kept her she's a badly beaten woman uh inside of his van and slept next to the corpse and referred to her as quote his baby yeah uh He's out of his fucking mind. Yeah.

This is insane here. Now, Nancy Filialt. Can you imagine being fucking locked into a cage with that man every day? You're in this cage with this guy. Holy shit. Every fucking night. You're like, yeah, I'm fucked up, but this guy, Jesus. I'm not on crack anymore. This guy didn't even smoke crack.

No, he just did this for fun, for his baby. Yeah, I didn't call anybody my baby. I just fucking stole money for crack so apparently here uh katherine's kleinkopf's sister nancy who's been a outspoken advocate of fucking hating jonathan mills for years here uh she said that her family should have been contacted by the state in regards for the fact that mills is going to get 150 000 reward for information of this shit. Now, she said, quote, What's happened?

What happened to the victims right about being informed? What's one phone call? It was really disrespectful. I feel like Mills is being allowed rights that he shouldn't have and is being given respect that he doesn't deserve. It's just wrong on so many levels. Now, the woman from the Survivors of Homicide, Inc.,essica pisano she says that uh quote it was one of those things where i didn't want to be the bearer of bad news well no shit sorry it's kind of

your job you work for quote survivors of homicide inc a lot of bad news floating around that joint probably jesus christ i would venture to say the worst news all of it yeah never a good news except the pizza's here maybe if it's lunchtime other than that he says she also said quote but it was quite but it was shocking and i figured no one had contacted her i don't think her rights have been violated legally but from a human standpoint it could have been handled differently contacting her would have been the polite thing to do if nothing else which is honestly the classiest thing you could say we're not required to but you're right we probably should have said something it would have been

shitty to just go well legally we're not required to, but you're right, we probably should have said something. It would have been shitty to just go, well, legally, we're not required to. Fuck off like that. Not our business. So, they were asking if the state planned to waive basically because that family, Nancy, is eligible to sue for this money, and they were wondering

about the legal, if there's like an agreement where if we give Jonathan Mills this money, he has to waive it to the victims or something and the spokeswoman said quote our office has not yet entered into any agreement that would waive the state's right to seek recovery so you don't know here what's going to happen uh so uh they they're the whole thing is people are saying like why the fuck is this this person shouldn't get a reward but uh one of the defense attorneys said quote without specifically addressing this case there would be no incentive for anyone to cooperate based on a reward if you cannot in some manner collect on the reward what would be the

point law enforcement across the board would indicate that there are times when they need to rely on information that comes from people who are incarcerated and there are times when they need to get give incentives for that information this guy's a piece of shit who's going to end up back on the street. Whether this guy has $150,000 or not, he's in jail for three, he's not using it. Who cares? This guy, he could be released in five years. And the other point is, if we offer this money and every one of these people has the opportunity to be sued, a lot of times those people are not going to come forward with information because they're not going to get the money anyway.

Exactly. What's the point? What am I buying? Court? I mean, it's one of those things. So this lawyer said that he believes most victims' families would support the use of rewards because it helps them resolve a case. Right.

Your case has justice. Yeah. This next one may not. Yeah, that's the thing. Don't you want somebody else's family to get it yeah and i get that you don't want him to have money fuck i'm on board with you yeah but for christ's sake we gotta be able to do what else are we gonna give him we can't the other reward is give him freedom you fucking want that would you rather have this guy who killed seven people

and slept next to him and called him their baby you want him back out on the streets because i have a feeling he's gonna do that shit again probably sorry but i mean this guy what's he gonna do buy more honey buns and ramen noodles who gives a shit it's gonna be really hard for him to run through 150 grand by the time he gets to the bottom of it you will have taken it all yeah no shit don't worry uh they asked the the victim's advocate person uh well you know isn't this bad for closure and she said quote we don't use words like closure around here which is a really interesting thing to say good lord she said this is something families carry their entire lives, which is a really interesting thing to say. She said,

this is something families carry their entire lives. This is a prime example of that. Every time you see an article, it rubs the scab open. It brings you all the way back. Yeah, that's true. We like to say justice,

not closure. Yeah. So they asked about the reward money and will the family sue for the reward money? And this woman said, quote, she doesn't want anything to do with it. It's hard for her to hear people talking about how Mills is trying to do good, and isn't that a good thing?

It's kind of insulting. She says that the family wants nothing to do with him or his fucking money. They just don't want to hear his name. That's the other point. If you get that money and you spend it, you're being reminded of that fucking twat-sickle. Yeah. Oh, and then she also says, the victim's advocate person says, a lot of times people who commit crimes like this are master manipulators. Now he has the power and control over this entire situation, which he does. Yeah. She's talked. So basically, yeah, she says that the sister's mad because she says if he does get this money, basically, she's he's profiting off of murder. She said, quote, this is John benefiting from his crimes. If he wasn't in jail, he would not have received that information. And then they said, would you sue her?

Would you sue him? And she said, would it bring back Kitty and the kids? Then no, I wouldn't. Don't want him. Good for you. One thing I will say, now that you've heard all of this, and this John of the Mill is a terrible fucking guy. He is. The other guy was worse, obviously.

But this guy, he's a terrible fucking guy. He is. The other guy was worse, obviously. But this guy is not a good guy. And just a mess of how a small town person can tumble out of control. Rapidly. Rapidly go from, hey, this is fun to, do you think you can help me open this pay phone? Right. Very, very different. When I understand you being mad at him and then, you know, maybe you're madder at him for having a reward. And maybe you're actually you think he's a decent guy for helping the police or it

was just for the reward either way please don't take it out on a different jonathan mills that i found that comes up when you search a lot jonathan mills he's a real estate agent that's why he's a realtor he's team leader of the mills group god jesus in gainesville florida and if you search him it comes up a murderer and i that can't be good for a real estate agent so bastard has to live in gainesville and he lives in the panhandle if you live in gainesville and you want to buy a house give that guy a shot because i guarantee you he's lost at least one client just when they looked it up and saw jonathan mills murder click never mind and went to the next guy who just you know how about peggy stratton

that's better. Look at her and her big toothy smile and her blonde wall of hair. Big Lane Bryant dress. Let's go, Peggy. Her big Lane Bryant dress on her. So, yeah, that is the story. That is, Jesus Christ, Guilford, Connecticut, and the insanity that is Jonathan Mills and these poor kids and everything else. It's a fucking disaster.

But that's, that's small town murder for you right there. I mean, not an unexpected people locking their doors in a small town and it's, it's everything. Yeah. Jesus. It's crazy.

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Yes. I think it's the 1st and 3rd of August we're there. I was not thrilled about that. No. Well, I mean, we liked Cincinnati last time. We dug. The crowd was great. They were one of the best crowds in the country.

I think it's the second and third. Second and third, maybe. One of those times. Look it up. Shop at GiveMeMurder.com. That's where it's at. It's right where it's at. So you can find all of our tour dates there.

Also, we're going to be the next two weeks after that in Omaha and Minneapolis. But Omaha is sold out. Minneapolis, you guys get your tickets now. It's real close. And that's like a 950-seat venue, and it's very Omaha's sold out. Minneapolis, you guys get your tickets now. It's real close. And that's like a 950-seat venue, and it's very close to sold out. So I would get your tickets right now. Don't wait until like week of because they're probably not going to be anymore. There won't be.

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It's not that far. Jesus Christ. Hop on a Southwest flight. It's like $80. Get down there. Round trip, probably. Round trip. Yeah.

Well, of course, it's Southwest and it's awful. But still, it's fine. See us down there. Also, follow us on social media. We are at Murder Small on Twitter, at Small Town Pod on Facebook, and at at murder small on twitter at uh at small town pod on facebook and at small town murder on instagram and you can get all of the tour dates just as they come out because we are currently booking dates for 2020 basically we're not going to do a tour normally like a comic or a podcast they'll do like a tour over the course of two months where they're out they're

at four cities a week and they're just pounding, pounding, pounding every single week. We can't do that. No, we can't put out a small town murder and a crime in sports every single week and do that pace. It's impossible. It's not possible to do. We put out long shows and they're really, I know other shows do it.

I don't think they research as much as we do, or they have people that work for them. We don't have employees. We don't have anyone. I do the research. We come over, we record. That's that. So yeah, we don't do that. We don't have employees. We don't have anyone. I do the research. We come over, we record. That's that.

Yeah, we don't do that. We're going to basically try to do every two weeks or so, we're going out on the road and doing two cities basically, and we're going to just kind of keep that continuously. So we'll kind of keep a continuous tour going on, but we'll only pop up once a year, once every year and a half in certain cities or whatever. So get your

tickets when we come, and that way we'll come back again. Because the markets where we don't sell great, we ain't coming back there. Even if we like them and you guys are a great crowd, it's a matter of... We'll wait until the audience is bigger there. We're going to wait until the city's got more people. Follow us on social media is what I'm getting at

and find out wherever we're going to be before anybody else hears about it on the show and all that sort of shit. If you want to be an even bigger damn supporter of the show and be one of our heroes who we're going to talk about in just a second, one of our producers, the people close to our heart,

good Lord, I want to wrap them in plastic and sleep next to them in a van and call them my baby. I love them so much. Oh, our babies. There's so many of them. I love them so much oh our babies there's so many of them i love them so much our producers you can be one of those people and be one of our heroes very easily by going over to patreon.com slash crime in sports or heading over to paypal and using our email

address which is crime and sports at gmail.com both of those links can be accessed super easily by going to shut up andgivememurder.com. Without further ado, Jimmy, I want to know the group of people who, I want to know our babies. Give it to me right now. Hit me with it, Jimmy. This week's executive producers are Justin Miller, Clay Thorson, who he lost his pup and he went and got two new ones, Loki and Odin the pug. Good for you. Good for you, Clay.

Cheryl Rice, Lucy is white trash from Murphy Murphy. You know what? Good for you, Lucy pug good for you good for you clay uh cheryl rice uh lucy is white trash uh from murphy murphy hey you know what good for you lucy good for you you know what i am also lucy so it's fine don't worry about you know murphy murphy you can go fuck yourself jessica winkler uh gina kuda jar off delinda delinda andrews who uh andrews luinji i think and she came to a show uh i think she came to uh you know what? Don't look at me. Tampa, Orlando. Yeah, these shows blend together. We apologize.

Yeah, they do. Not the people, the shows themselves. John Donnelly, Amanda McConnell, and Meredith Ottery. Thank you all so, so much. We can't do this without you. Other producers this week are Tyler Frazier, Sonny Johansson, Shalima Othouse. You know what? I've done this before.

Yeah. Outhouse, Outhouse, Outhouse. Yeah. One of those. johansson uh shalima off off house out uh you know what i've done this before yeah outhouse alt house off house yeah one of those yeah amanda gibson thomas smith abdul jan or john uh grace uh grace brunais or brunai uh fabio ramon raymondi ramon raymond. God damn it. Margie Coons, Belinda Reed, Cynthia Biddle. She says, SPF yourself. Put some fucking sunscreen on. That's what she means. Yes. Good for you.

That's her message. I like that message. That's a good message. Carol Braun. Thanks, Carol. Appreciate you. Welcome around again. She donates both ways, but she donated through PayPal this week just to remind us. We love you. Thank you, Carol. Thank you. Faye Bader. Pump the Drakes. I donates both ways, but she, she donated through PayPal this week. Uh, just to remind us.

So thank you, Carol. Thank you. Uh, Faye Bader, uh, pump the Drake's. I don't know what that is.

Uh, Lauren Smith, Jude Kendall, Matt Avery, uh, Jesse Hartman, Taylor sheets, Craig Larson,

Jenna XL, Paul Ruest. Hang in there, Paul. You're doing great, buddy. Uh, Hannah Weber or Weber,

Kyra beer. No Kyra by yes. Haley Ellis. That's probably wrong yes I mean uh Amy Spingath or Spingath I don't know something like that I'm not good at this I'm not good at this I don't know what I'm doing I'm not good at this Jennifer Britsman Emily Warwick Warwick Warwick I don't damn it. Rebecca Hendricks. James Marder.

Therese Maith. No. Therese Mata. That's right. No, it's not. Travis Ezell. Ezell. I think that's what I wrote.

Awesome. I'm not good at writing. Elizabeth Nigro. Alice Mullen. Sandra Caves or Cavs. Gehrig. Gehrig Rock. Kimberly Crawford.

Kimberly Crawford. That's my sister's name, but that's not who donated. It's another person. Oh, good. Thank you, Kimberly. Well, thank you. Lisa McCulgan, Michelle Nguyen, Ashley Vio, M. Betts, Molly Hewitt, Patrick Martin, D. Hall, Sarah Webb, Kelly Bodeker, Courtney Divan, Lenny Blunk, Christopher Earnshaw, Saint McNimrod, David

Barnhart, Alexis Seeger, Phil Mann, Philip, that's you, Janine walter maddie gallagher gregory carroll mike stole uh jennifer flores amanda stand stand up for stand eifer uh alicia alicia massey kate with no last name benjamin and anna in uh in orlando thank you both thanks for coming to the show chandler minor uh melissa glid glide well uh nicky nicky's shirts and shit i'm not google them find them and buy a shirt isabel uh isabel silverstein uh lauren boyd jane richards ian ian or i a i n is that ian i think it's ian but they spell in england they have so many people are named ian in england they have over Eighteen different ways of spelling it. Yeah. Ian Black.

I just can't stop naming each other. Ian. All right. Thank you. Jim Underhill. Janie Goulet. Our Goulet. Stop naming each other Gareth over there, too.

It's just Garrett or not. Gareth is weird. Or Gary. Gary. Deborah Brace. Stephen Rood. Gary Howard. Thanks, Gary.

Thanks, Gary, for everything. I appreciate you. Good seeing you. I appreciate you. Thanks, man. You got shithoused, but it was fine. So did you. Yeah, Gary Howard. Thanks, Gary. Thanks, Gary, for everything, bro. I appreciate you. Good seeing you. Appreciate you. Thanks, man. You got shithoused, but it was fine. Well, so did you. Yeah, I did.

We're all right. Sheena with no last name. Robin Brand. Brendan Ables. Tommy Craig. June Mendoza Fournier. Home stretch here. Renee Kellogg.

Karen Hunsworth, or Hunsworth. Carrie Pauly. John Love. Catherine Anderson. Jonathan Kaplan. McKaylee. McKaylee. uh karen karen huntsworth or hunsworth uh carrie polly joe uh john love uh katherine anderson jonathan caplan mckaylee mckaylee mckaylee osley janelle coach or cock uh omar little i see what you did you son of a bitch i know his name yeah you know i don't i don't have to watch the show to know the guy i've told him all my enough times by gordon gordon casalet Smith. This is Icaru, I think so. No, Akyru. No, it's not. I said Haley Ellis. She donated

both ways. Thank you, Haley. Rachel Coleman, Brittany Dace, or Dachi, or Dacey. Nicole Arsenault. No, Robert. Robert Ward. I don't know why I saw Brandon out of Robert, because I'm dumb. Jennifer Britsman. I said that, too. She donated both ways. Thank you, Jennifer.

Lane, Lane, Joseph Manns, Kelly Brown, Joe, Johnny Flores, Eve KB, Leah, Leah Cook, Cook, really? Flores, Hughes, Lynn Fort, Kylie Burge, Doll Wilson, Rachel Ice, Mindy Kidd, David Renazzi and Total Axe and all of our Patreon supporters. You guys are fucking amazing to us. Thank you so much. Thank you, everybody, so much for everything that you do for us. Always.

We're goddamn blown away by it. Really? We're undeserving, and we always feel undeserving. No matter what, we could come to your house and wash your car and clean your gutters, and we'd still feel undeserving because it's just how we are. So thank you for everything you do for us, honestly. And what if somebody wanted to thank you, Jimmy, or call you their baby? How could they do that?

You can find me at Wisman Sucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N Sucks, on Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat. And thank you truly, guys. We don't advertise this show. We don't put out huge ads places. We don't put banner ads on anything. Nope. And we surge on charts, and it's because of you guys. It's all it is.

Word of mouth. You guys do this for us and you tell your friends about the show. You tell me about the show, what you're passionate about on all those links at where I told you

you could find me. I appreciate it and I really, just genuinely thank you for making this something and thank you for coming to these shows. Thank you for making

these shows what they are. I appreciate it. Where can they tell you? You can find me at Jimmy P is funny or just copy and paste my last name from the show description and look for me that way because there's not a lot of other people named Petra Gallo. So, you know, it's probably me. Yeah.

Especially if I'm like if it's someone's like on a stage or something, that's probably going to be me. I would say not a lot of other Petra Gallo comedians out there unless my little brother went into comedy and I wasn't sure. Eric, don't do it to yourself. Stay home with your kid and work your nice job and don't make yourself a horrible leper of a person limping from city to city. That said, boy, we're excited.

We can't wait to see you guys. Get your tickets to the live shows because we can't wait to see you there either. And we're going to keep coming back every week. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. either and we're going to keep coming back every week and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure hey prime members you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.