Small Town Murder - #133 - What's That In Your Pocket? in Mount Ida, Arkansas

Episode Date: August 22, 2019

This week, in Mount Ida, Arkansas, a beloved citizen is found murdered at home, and everyone is left scratching their heads until a seemingly tiny clue leads to another clue, and then another... until police focus on one suspect who has vanished into thin air. It takes the stupidest of stupid moves by the killer for police to find, and capture him. And that's where the fun starts! This is a crazy ride, from start to finish!!Along the way, we find out that sorghum needs its own festival, that just because someone is wearing a suit, doesn't mean that you should let them into your house, and that $336 is more important than freedom to some people!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Very, very very interesting listen and subscribe to mob queens right now on apple podcast stitcher or wherever you find podcasts the first one premiered august 19th get it now this week in mount ida arkansas a senseless murder of a beloved citizen leaves everyone scratching their heads until a tiny clue leads investigators on a cross-country hunt for the killer. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Can you hear it to Small Town Murder. Yay!

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Can you hear it? That's allergies. Yay indeed. Feeling great. My name is James Petricallo. I'm here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman. Yes, the allergic Jimmy Wissman, and myself as well. We're in Phoenix, where it's 113 degrees today, and dry, and there's dust, and weird things things grow and everybody's full of allergies.

If our voices sound funny, you don't have it on a wrong speed or anything like that. It's us. We'd like to, right off the bat, we have a wild episode this week. Next week's episode is insane. Next level crazy.

Our next few weeks of Small Town Murder, buckle up because they're planned out already and they're absolutely nuts. I do have to thank everybody who came out to see us this past weekend in Omaha, first of all. That was a great show. Sure was. And Minneapolis, of course, where you guys came,

sold out like a thousand seat theater. Thank you guys. Thank you. We love Minneapolis. We're a great city. And Omaha, great show. Yeah. As I said on Crime and Sports, Omaha makes Cleveland look like Paris.

So it's not going to be that complimentary about the city. But the show, terrific. Funny bone. Good job, guys. Great fucking place. Everything. Next show's coming up. San Diego and L.A. in mid-September.

What is it? The 14th and 15th of September, I believe. 15th and 16th? 15th and 16th. Mid-September. Something like that. You know where you of September, I believe. 15th and 16th? Mid-September. Something like that. You know where you can find out? Oh, shut up and give me murder.com! Murder.com.

All your tickets are going to be there for those shows, for Philadelphia, for Charlotte, for Raleigh, for Atlanta, for all of these shows coming up. I'd say Pittsburgh and all those. But they're sold out, so you can't get those. But yeah, go there for everything like that. Philly's not. You can get tickets to that one. You can get tickets to philly you can get tickets to dc yes tickets there all through the carolinas and atlanta those tickets are available as well right and uh we told you milwaukee they released the tickets they had for us like we have 75 people

in milwaukee we're gonna like that we know 75 family so i think there's a few left those were going fast though so i think there's a couple left. Those were going fast, though. So I think there's a couple left in Chicago. Those are selling fast, too, in December. That's crazy. Milwaukee, you guys really want us. That's awesome. That's so sweet. We're really excited about that.

And thank you also, everybody, this week for all of your reviews. Apple Podcasts, the purple icon. Those reviews, you think, who cares? They really help a lot. We don't know why. They're not our charts. I'm not paid to think. That's the thing here. We're not at all. It helps drive you up the charts of the iTunes charts. We don't know why. They're not our charts. I'm not paid to think. That's the thing here.

We're not at all. It helps drive you up the charts of the iTunes charts. We don't know why, but they do. They help. So if you could do that for us, give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. You can't fix us with words. So say whatever you want.

It's just to help on the business end, and we really do appreciate that. And like we said, shut up and give me murder for all your tickets, all of your needs. Listen to Crime and sports as well. If you're not listening to crime and sports, you are missing out. We had a guy attack people with a machete and try to set them on fire in an 80s like action movie. Kidnap rescue this week. Series champion.

It's insane. Yeah, you can start with this week and it would be a good place to start to get a you don't have to like sports. It's almost better if you don't. So, yeah, that's all terrific. Do that. If you want to be a hero of ours, you can do that also. If you want to be one of our producers, we're going to talk about these people in detail at the end of the show.

And if you want to do that, very, very easy to do that. You just go to Patreon. You can get the links from there, but Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Or head over to PayPal and use our email address, which is Crimeand from there, but patreon.com slash crime and sports or head over to PayPal and use our email address, which is crime and sports at gmail.com. And you can get to those links right from where, Jimmy? Over there at shut up and give me murder.com. Jimmy, I wound him up a little too tight today and he's jumping the gun.

You know those cars when you pull them back? Yeah, that's what I did. And it goes at the end. Sounds like plastic's breaking. It went what i did and it goes yeah at the end it's like two sounds like plastics breaking it went to the back where it's breaking he was saying yay well i was trying to do the this week in you know mount ida it was very it was a mess we had to take two that's right it was probably take seven you know it uh quick disclaimer we'll get that out of the way very quickly it's a comedy show this is a comedy podcast we're going to make jokes about

stuff we try not to make jokes about the kill We try not to make jokes about the kill, about the, well, we make jokes about the murderers, obviously, in small towns, but we try not to make jokes about the victims or the victims' families because we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. There you go. That's how that works. That's how we make this good. If you think true crime and comedy should never go together,

they should never cross paths, and this show might not be for you. No. You probably want to go with something more serious, like a Dateline or something like that. They exist. They do a great job, all those people. But it's a little bit different than we do. We try to make it a little more lighter and palatable rather than he cut her head off. Oh, boy.

It's a little dark for us. We're going to keep it light with dark stories. And that's how we do it. And if that sounds good to you, oh, you're going to have a good time. We're going to have a blast. And I think you should clear the lungs, sit sit back and shout it as loud as you can shout shut up and give me murder.com there we go.com let's go on a trip all right what do you say here i would love that oh let's get out of here we were in pennsylvania last week about an hour outside of

philadelphia the uh lots of people sending us the link to the Allentown video based on that. Lots of butt cheeks. Billy Joel's like, why am I getting so much extra play on Allentown this week? These diatoms, Dallin, people are just, wow. I'm getting paid on Allentown somehow. The popularity just springs to the roof. I can crash another car. Oh, yes.

And marry another model and have her divorce me. Because she's clearly too tall for me. It's just not going to work. It would be great to be a rock guy. Yeah, wouldn't it? I'll sell Jerry Seinfeld another house for $30 million. He sold Jerry Seinfeld a house in the Hamptons for $30 million. Built it for six, probably.

Who cares? He has the $30 million dwelling. He built it for 29. I don't give a shit. We're going all the way to Mount Ida, Arkansas, somewhere that Billy Joel wouldn't be caught dead. I'm sure. I'm sure here. This place.

Oh, boy. This town, boy. Oh, boy. Let me tell you. I can't say anything else, but oh, boy. I look for something. There's not a lot of positive to say here i gotta be honest with you it's in the western part of the state it doesn't matter

it's arkansas the whole thing i don't care what shape it is it's all a fucking panhandle sorry it just is it's an hour and 36 minutes to little rock here so uh you know decent decent distance away four and a half hours down to dallas which is why we always get so many people from arkansas and dallas shows it's not that far that close it's very it's right there it's connected so it's i didn't realize yeah it's well you go from arkansas you cross over i don't think i realized that it was that close to texas yeah that's right they touch yeah they touch on the 40 you drive right through them yeah i've been through it i've done it yeah and i don't know you go to oklahoma well yeah you go through the You go to Oklahoma. Well, yeah, you go through the Texas and then Amarillo there.

Yeah. So anyway, three hours to Cincinnati, Arkansas, episode 76, where people wear overalls to their murder trial. Remember, if you haven't heard that episode, it ends in a man who just wears overalls to his murder trial. So that should tell you a lot about what happened that leads up to that. So good. And listen to it here it's in montgomery county zip code 71957 area code 870 it's about 1.6 square miles so it's a small little town and then with a lot of rural

shit around it basically motto of this town is quote quartz crystal capital of the world. Oh, shit that's worth nothing. Watch out for that. Look at that. Good Lord. Or the alternate one. This is more for the locals that they all spread amongst themselves for the outsiders. Quote, them are diamonds. Really?

I swore. I swore. Them are diamonds. I pulled them from the earth myself so yeah quartz crystal capital of the world here oh boy that's what we're talking about they're very proud of that some shit is in the ground that no one wants you can rub it yeah all under us is a bunch of shit nobody cares about great huh i'm sure they have some yeah some uh industrial purpose like industrial diamonds or some shit like that but i it's fun to make fun of quartz a little bit

better than dirt yeah slightly better quartz crystal too it's gonna it's pretty dirt dirt but pretty a little nicer to look at than a regular rock you know it's beautiful no no no it's not one of those geodes that you get like at a museum with the shit inside. No, it's not one of those. How dare you? You're not going to put it on your dresser or nothing, but you're going to look at it and you go, that's not fucking bad for a rock. It ain't bad.

And then you put it back down. That's what you do. You ain't got to cut it in half or nothing. Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. Otherwise, what are you going to do with a geo thing you're going to cut it in half how are you going to cut it in half yeah you got a fucking saw you get your steak

knife and cut it out it's not going to work can't do that you're going to break it you're going to mess it all up break your steak knife that's a good steak knife it's the guy who owns the court's mind he's okay you know you just hold it that's what you do they found artifacts here stone spear and dart points found in the area show that people here were present in montgomery county around 8500 bc jesus so this is a long time we're talking over 10 000 years ago people were there which they're there a lot of places but they actually found artifacts yeah it's a kind of place it was actually surviving yes the dalton culture apparently those were some of that group of people here uh there there was also uh early signs of houses uh native american cemeteries are present around this area as well are you happy that there's cemeteries or how yeah kill those

kill those red bastards those things are scary man man. Did you have an Andrew Jackson moment right there? Yeah, probably. I think you just had, like, cool, now there'll be a horror movie based on this. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah, like, cool, man. I've seen it. They're going to take over a house, a little girl. I've seen those things that were, like, in Phoenix, where they're, like, building shit.

Oh, yeah. And they come across dozens of bodies. They're like, oh, boy, everybody stop. Oh, boy, everybody stop. It's the coolest thing, but it's frightening. Yeah, well, yeah. It's terrifying. You never know. Think about if you stop. Oh boy, everybody stop. It's the coolest thing, but it's frightening. Yeah, well, yeah. It's terrifying. You never know.

Think about if you were buried there. It would suck. Now they're exhuming you. They're exhuming you. And they donate you back to the tribes that still exist. That's what they do with them. They give them to them and let them have a ceremony and rebury them. There you go.

Because otherwise they're wandering the earth. Otherwise they're under a best buy, which is not, I don't think, what was planned out for them by the earth gods. I don't think they someday will be buried under a Best Buy, which is not, I don't think, what was planned out for them by the Earth gods. I don't think they someday will be buried under a strip mall. Or people are buying big TVs to watch football. Possibly a Chipotle will be above me. I don't think that was a thought. Really got my hopes on a Burlington.

Let's hope not. No discount stores. Full retail, please. Can I get a Dillard? That's all they're asking for. Full retail. Even a Best Buy. That's five.

It's better than something else. The only time they're not is when it's a holiday sale. When they're celebrating the guy that murdered all of us. By paying with his picture. Columbus Day. Come buy a TV on an Indian burial ground. There you go. Come on down there.

That's a sale. That's an ad campaign right there. Come buy a TV on an Indian burial ground. The lightning and shit. That'd be awesome. Now we're talking here. There was the presence of the Caddo or Cato Indians having settled there in the 13th and 14th century.

So that's the 12 and 1300s here. In 1541, De Soto, who's the guy who found the Mississippi, I mean, that's not real difficult to find. Yeah, it's pretty fucking big, sir. You just go that way. Eventually, you can't get across the country without running into it. That's the thing.

So he wasn't a blind man, is what you're saying. Well, even if he was blind, he would have known if his shoes were wet. Hey, I think I't hold on i'm swimming now i think i found something i'm underwater so possibly i found something i smell taste and hear muddy water yeah no shit well he uh his people here fought the tula indians here at cato gap or cato gap and he was injured during that battle 1812 was the first white settlers a martin and mary collier who i think are the first settlers into every neighborhood with no white people it's martin and mary and they're like we're gonna make a go of it we're

gonna if we open up a cupcake shop downstairs we can get the neighborhood on our side and no one will stab us i feel like that's what they think is Her name is Nancy? Mary. Mary. Oh, yeah. Mary Collier. Jesus. Yeah, they settled there. They befriended the local tribe. See? They were coming in.

They gave out free cupcakes. Yeah. And they were like, come into our shop. And they befriended everybody. Try it. It's sweet. It's good. It's delicious.

And they were like, I like this frosting. You may stay. And they're like, good. Someday you'll be buried under a shop just like this with other white people eating overpriced pastries. It's going to be good for you. So terrible here. The Granville Whittington came in 1835 and built a road that led from Hot Springs, which is which is a thing here. Very popular in Arkansas.

Oh, Hot Springs, you know, which is a mile north of the original Montgomery settlement here. Arkansas got their statehood in 1836, and by that time, most of the natives were gone there. Arkansas got a statehood while everybody else was still wearing a white one. Yeah. A pointy one. A pointy one. So I guess a lot of the native women had already married and intermarried with the white settlers, so they ended up staying behind.

So there was a lot more mixed-race people in Arkansas than other places, apparently, for some reason. That's cool. I'm not sure. It's good. If you marry us, we won't kill you. Hey, like you said, beige babies. That's good. Makes good ones. Diversify the gene pool. That's good if you marry us we won't kill you hey like you said beige babies yeah it's good makes good diversify the gene pool that's all that's good scientifically so they uh this guy whittington here opened a general store uh in 18 uh and and then the post office opened in 1842

right in mount ida here so uh there's wagon trains coming through there's all sorts of shit going on here this was part of uh this, it was originally Spain owned it, and then it was a Louisiana purchase after France owned it there. So Montgomery in 1842 became its own county. Montgomery was the county seat. And then in 1850, Salem became the county seat. But then later in the same year, the county seat changed again. And you know there was acrimony based on every other story we've done.

Somebody's angry. Someone got shot over this. There was muskets being loaded over this shit. You know it. And then Mount Ida became the seat. So this has the toughest bastards here. Got it. These are the people playing the banjo in Deliverance, not the Ned Beatys.

I didn't see it. Well, Ned Beaty was the man who was physically accosted by hillbillies in the Ozarks. Oh, he was. Ned Beatty was the was the raping. Yeah. Would you picture Ned Beatty attacking other men in the woods and raping them? Hey, come here. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to rape you.

I don't think that's that's Ned Beatty's role, really. But poor Ned Beatty. Oh, well, Ned Beatty took the he had the brunt of it. Oh, boy. Bad times for Ned Beatty. But it made his career. I suppose. Yeah. old really but poor ned baity oh well ned baity took the he had the brunt of it oh boy bad times for ned baity really but it made his career i suppose yeah he got a bunch of movies after that made his career it's a good role for him so uh yeah the city saw a silver boom that went through the 1880s that made this area like really prosperous at first this was like a tombstone

type of place where people were coming and getting their claims and it's like deadwood they're putting some crystal fancy gear on and going and getting some prostitutes and gambling and you know it's yeah they're having a good time uh civil war broke out here most of the people in the county went with the confederacy because it's arkansas and uh people here uh people actually there was settlers here who formed a company to serve in the in the confederate army and they did uh now what ended up happening is and a lot of times back then all the men would go to fight any able-bodied guys would go to fight so they would leave all the women behind to tend to the farms and they'd do everything not just what they were doing before but now they're doing everything and so soldiers from both the

confederate and the union army seeing basically a town with no men yeah went in and raided the homes and farms for supplies and left all these women with nothing basically stripped their farms bare and all the guns are gone and all the well yeah all the guns are gone all the guys are gone all it's just you know women who yesterday were taking care of the house and now they're farmers and now they're also have to be fend off a company of soldiers as well it's a sickle it's a lot to ask of a lady who's also taking care of seven kids probably she's got a baby on her hip and a sickle in her hand yeah and a gun aimed at her face she had nine kids when the war started but you know how that goes back then the kids just die off like crazy you have like 12 you're lucky to end up with three by the time they're 18 i feel like that's how it works back

then so uh after the war soldiers from both sides ended up settling in this area uh here they had a uh a steam saw in 1880s in the 1880s a cotton gin and a grist mill oh i'm gonna get that steam saw going is a grist uh grist was uh some sort of uh meat no no no no it was a gristle mill no grist it was like uh grain some sort of grain or you know that sort of shit something organic maze maybe yeah i think it's a for that sort of thing and a steam saw i assume is to cut the geodes yeah i believe so you can see inside of them you can't do that shit by hand no no so uh 1890 mount ito was actually incorporated our town during the Great Depression. This devastated this place.

I mean, any of the places that are kind of marginal. Right. Small town America was a mess. It's hard. Anytime the economy crashes, small town America feels it because that's not where the tends to be. Not where the money is as far as the corporations and shit like that. The main concentration of money tends to be in cities.

That's why you see. And if there is something there that's like a big industrial something. They lay off. Right. It's a satellite something. Yeah. And that's why they put it there. And they lay off.

And then everybody's gone and they close that fucking factory. They lay off half the workers and now the town has half the people who are unemployed. What the hell do you do with that? And that kind of kills these towns. God damn. And that's what happens. And people end up moving away and that's what happened here.

They had to start moving to cities and other towns that had shit that was going on, basically. During World War II, people continued to leave the war and also there was plants. The war economy was huge. If you were one of the people staying behind if you had some reason why you couldn't be in the army or didn't weren't in the army there was good

paying yeah war jobs wars are lucrative they are you make a fuckload of money during wartime especially back then now it's a little different but back then uh now it's a little more specialized but back then they're building like you know we're actually we need tons of actual physical bombs like tons just so many of them so we need to build them and we need to build actual planes things yeah specific people for technology purposes it's a different yeah different thing not hammer and bolts it's got yeah back then it was people on an assembly line putting together plane parts it was a different different deal absolutely and so that's how people drew it were it went to california during the war tons of them oakland became a big city after that yeah that's it was a lot of factory jobs and shit like that so that's a lot of those cities were like that it drew people away from these small towns

because it's i could make three times as much if i go to the city and just make do that so uh also mining was a big deal here uh that didn't last, though. They found a lot of quartz. That's what they found, basically. They tricked the city folk into buying quartz, and then when the city folk realized that shit ain't worth a goddamn thing. Yeah, they're like, where's all that silver that used to be here? Now it's just this rock. This kind of sucks here. I think you hit rock bottom, guys, literally.

That's literally rock bottom here now uh the main areas of employment in the region still are as this is this is out of uh montgomery county this is what they say cattle swine and poultry are now the main employment areas of employment meat that is uh fucking stinky yeah it just sounds like you can smell shit from miles away. Just miles. Just a butchery. Oh, that's brutal. There's also, yeah, poultry farms, silva culture. I don't know what that is.

Doing shit with silver, I assume. I have no idea. And it's also, like we said, quartz capital of the world. They say, they brag it's known worldwide for its quartz deposits. Nothing we've done to improve it or anything. It's not known for its culture, its food, or its, you know, fairness and laws or anything like it. Known for its courts deposits. We had nothing to do with.

Perfect. Shit that's been here since long before us. Yeah. And we know people are tough here because it's the county seat. And that means they have all the records. So they fought for them. I found a uh review of this town actually two reviews well ones of the hotel the motel since we have so much adventures

on the road with motels i found this absolutely awful motel review that i have to say because it's one of the worst i've ever heard but here's a review of the town the title is life quality oh okay this is a quote mount ida is is small with not a lot to do unless you attend church or like water sports uh the chiggers and ticks at first i said i think you spelled that wrong no it is arkansas and then i went oh okay ticks too uh the chiggers and ticks are are are too unbearable to enjoy the outdoors. The weather in late spring through early fall is hot and humid. Bad storms with destroying winds and hail. There are a few weeks mid-spring and late fall that are doable.

Winter is cold and icy. The town itself is unkempt. Most of the people seem so unhappy. A thank you from employees in any of the establishments you shop in will take you by surprise. The medical care is the worst, not equipped for emergencies. If considering relocating here, all capital letters don't! So, not a great,

not a ringing endorsement. That's a really great one, though. It's thorough. It's letting you know what's going on in this fucking place. And it's well written. I like it, too. I'm very impressed with his articulation. Yeah, he's thought about this, I feel like.

That's why. I don't know if he'd be this articulate with any other subject. No. But he really has all of his complaints cataloged for a long time here. And zero stars. Yeah. He gave no stars. Water sports, like lakes and rivers and stuff, or like getting pissed on by hookers?

Probably both, I think, in this town. But actually, this is a church town so probably so probably they wouldn't charge lots of just okay they're just really repressed and they like to have it but they don't say thank you no no they'll just yeah and when someone pees on you you expect at least a thank you afterwards you know what i mean like at least a thank you would have been nice you could at least say i give you your 20 you know i'll give me a fist bump or something you just walk away like a dick what are you doing you know what i'm saying shit that's that should be a requirement i would say minimum of fist bumps that's right so now i've

had a review of the mount idah motel and it's amazing title is never go there okay this is on like TripAdvisor. It's not like a small thing. This is for real. Quote, it was horrible. They had roaches and the owners were very creepy and they were always lurking around you being weird and they smelled horrible. Even the room smelled bad and the AC didn't work. The AC didn't even work.

I'm never going back to that motel. I couldn't stay there. I got a refund and found another place to stay. Room tip from her quote not a good view at all it was just a ditch apparently it said there was a view which i don't know what view you're expecting in mount idah how close are you getting to the hotel operators that you can smell apparently they're very creepy and always on top of you how many times have you checked into a place and smelled somebody? That's true. Yeah, that's... In a motel?

Plenty. That's a good point. It happens. They walk you to the room. Yeah. Yeah. Population of this town in 1930, say pre-Depression or right when it started, 512 people. Now, 1,227 people.

Booming. Dublin. Up 58% since 1990. Hell yeah. I don't know. That's not many many people but i don't know what they're doing here female population is a little bit more than the male it's pretty much right on target the age groups though normal is about 37 average in the country for median age here it's 45.5 so it's an older crowd all of the kid demographics are way low right there's no kids here but the old people demographics are off the charts i don't know like people study like the japanese and certain asian

cultures to see why people are living longer we need to go to arkansas because that'll come up in the story too later on but also here triple the amount of 75 to 84-year-old people. My word. Quadruple the 85 and over crowd. My Christ. How are they doing this? They're living long. Quadruple. And not going anywhere. They're also too poor to move.

That's the problem. But maybe that's all it is. They're just too poor to go the rest of the way to Florida. Is quartz the secret? Maybe it's quartz. You just rub it? A handful in each hand, man. Just hold on to it at night.

It's my extra life crystals. It's my life crystals. Please don't take them away. Married population is a little bit high, but it's pretty much around the 50% mark. So the single with no children is actually more. So there you go. You can go there and party and hook up with some, find some people. Some old people that never did it.

Yeah. Married couples with no children is also higher and i think a lot of that is older people they don't their kids are either grown up or dead by now right 90 your kid might be dead yeah he may have outlived him he died at 71 it was he had a good life that's the thing i'm 94 i've been kidless for the last five years they all died i don't know what to tell you. It wasn't even sad. No. That's the only time when it's not sad to bury your own child.

If you're 97. That's a parent going, he lived a good life. He had a good run. I'm not going to lie. A really good run. Very nice. Race of this town. Can you imagine being a parent saying he lived a full life?

Get a good run, man. You got to be old as fuck. Really old. He got 80 out of it. Yeah, it's impressive. By the way, at a live show, we brought up Kirk Douglas and said that he's dead. He is still alive. Is he really?

He's 102. My Christ. No, he's not. He's 102. Kirk Douglas is 102. He looks like he died in 1991. That's what he looks like now. He looks like a corpse that they didn't even do it the right way.

They just laminated him and sat him up up somewhere still alive race of this town 88 white 1.5 black which is not very black and arkansas has a lot of black people so that's strange uh 2.9 native american which is above average and 6.8 hispanic so pretty white let's just say uh religion strangely in this town usually in arkansas and the south it's high this is the bible belt right here uh it's low actually 44 percent religious yeah which is not bad all lower your kid there you go you know fuck jesus we've said that old all these towns with old people it's always they give up i think you just forgot i think one day you just forgot to go to church and forgot you're religious and someone says are you religious and they go i don't think so i never go to church i've been having all these sundays to myself yeah i'm super

not enjoying it the cowboys are on this is better uh but most of the people 30 percent here are baptists because baptists are are Catholics of the South. That's right. 0.0% Jewish. Yeah. They're having none of this shit. No. Nagila nada.

Nada. Nada Nagila. 0.0% Islam. Here, another thing, the voting. 21% of the people voted Democrat in the last election. 75% Republican. We could sing that next time. uh if you have 0.0 maybe that's what we'll do uh unemployment rate's a little bit high it's about not too much about four in the rest of the country here it's about five percent

median household income rest of the country is around 58 000 here it is 38 000 so a little little light on the income yeah here uh the jobs are mostly kind of blue-collar. Mining and quarrying is a job that's bigger. Agriculture, forestry is double the norm. Construction is almost triple the norm. But zero white-collar shit. No professional technical. The hardest work on earth.

Yeah, these are all hard-working people. Hard-working old people. Yeah, they're out there. That's why Kirk Douglas looks 102. He's been out in the sun mining and quarrying. That's what happens. Healthcare, a lot of jobs there because, obviously, the population. Cost of living, 100 is regular even and a par.

Here it's 84.3. So it's not as low as you would imagine it is. The housing is 66. So the butch is low, though. Median home cost here, $73,400. I guess it's okay. It's okay, but you would even expect lower than that. A lot of the houses, 26% of the houses are worth between $40,000 and $60,000.

I can't believe that. 18% between worth $20,000 and $40,000 are worth between $20,000 and $40,000. What's more ridiculous to you? Cheap houses or ridiculous expensive ones?'re both they're so silly i can't believe this you know what let's find out what we like better with the mount eider arkansas real estate report your average two-bedroom rental here is about $650, which is almost half, really. It's pretty cheap. I found a two-bedroom, two-bath, 896-foot.

It's pretty much a trailer. One of those trailers that's got lattice around the bottom and it's in the ground. It's not going anywhere. But it can. A truck brought it here in whole at one point in its whole state. $35,000 for this little slice of heaven. I found a two bedroom, two bath, 1164 square foot. I'm not going to lie.

It's scary. It's a frightening home. But it's a home. It's a home. It does look scary. It's $85,000, though, for this house. But you could put your family in there, I guess. They do advertise with this home that it comes with an asphalt driveway, camper storage,

chicken coop, and large trees. Is the asphalt driveway a positive thing? Yeah, it's not gravel. They're like, hey, it's not dirt. We've paved. Look at that. Not i found no asphalt asphalt driveways are so weird oh yeah they're so bizarre i found a five bedroom three and a half bath 2900 square foot awesome ass house it's on a huge hill sitting up by itself like in the hill in the woods it's foreboding it looks like when i when i like hitler's retreats it's

like the wolf uh lair it's it's crazy it's but it looks like the site of an awesome horror movie like there'd be lightning around it if it wasn't in arkansas i would fucking want to move here right now it's so raving about a house in arkansas it's so cool and then i'm like i have no idea what to think it's in arkansas though that's why and it's have no idea what to think. It's in Arkansas, though. That's why. And it's a beautiful home. $354,900. And it's in Mount Ida. Yeah.

That's the problem. That's why it's cheaper here. Things to do. It's cheaper. It's a little cheaper. Things to do. I found the October. It's in October. Here is the annual World Championship Quartz Crystal Dig.

What? So you see who can dig up the most quartz by hand, apparently. Apparently, if you just take a shovel and just attack the dirt, you're going to come up with some quartz eventually. So they have a quartz dig, and it's the World Championships. World Championships. Everybody. People from everywhere, as far away as Little Rock and Amarillo. As far away as an hour and a half. As far away as little rock and amarillo as far away as an hour and a half as far away as benton all the way out there last year a guy came from memphis

god damn it so also the sorghum festival jimmy what is that sorghum i knew you'd ask sorghum is a sweet syrup made by cooking the juice squeezed from sorghum cane. It's like shitty cheap sugar. Sugar for... It's like a sweet and low off? Yeah. It's like if you can't grow sugar, you have shitty sorghum. Sorghum. If you are...

Yeah. So the annual sorghum... It says, quote, if you are wanting to by chance see how sorghum is made, there's an annual sorghum festival here. It sounds disgusting. It takes place in homage to the tradition of making sorghum is made there's an annual sorghum festival here it sounds disgusting takes place in homage to the of the tradition of making sorghum and it's and then they also have the quote that by the way it says it is always good when we can remind people of the good old days which involved a lot of hard work yeah not for yeah you're today requires it to whose work who was doing that work

back in those good old days let's be honest here let's not do that and to capitalize on that they have the good old days festival which anywhere below the mason dixon line you don't that means they're starting again in may of 1980 near anaheim california dorothy jane scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott?

From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community.

Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+.

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's

most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and add free by joining wondery plus in the wondery app or on apple podcasts everybody go watch out indoors indoors lock them roll them up lock them down so uh yeah plenty of fun for everyone it's located around the courthouse uh yeah they have and also there's good friday evening you'll want to be there for the good old gospel show on the front porch stage

and uh then there's a car show after that crime rate in this town what we're interested in jimmy oh that festival that's a fun one it's scary i want to do a show that's just small town so we could talk about this for an hour we could talk about this town for an hour. Crime, right? I had to leave things out. Crime rate, property crime is right about average of normal. And violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault in Mount Rushmore of crime is slightly low. It's maybe 10% low, but it's in the ballpark of normal here.

And let's talk about a murder. Hey, everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com. That's right, Jimmy. If there is something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals, BetterHelp Online Counseling can help you. BetterHelp offers licensed professional counselors who are specialized in issues such as depression, anxiety, relationships, trauma, anger, family conflicts, LGBT matters, grief, self-esteem, and more. Connect with your professional counselor in a safe and private online environment and get help at your own time and, of course, at your own pace. Anything you share is completely confidential, and it's so convenient. You can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist if for some reason you're not happy with your counselor you can request a new one at any time no additional charge you know that's a

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Okay. It's a juicy one. Oh, boy. It's a good one here. It's getting sorghum dripping out of it. That's the problem. Every murder here, they find so much sorghum on the scene that it's really difficult to do the forensic work they need because they say the DNA is just, it's, what's the word I'm looking for? It's interfered with by the sorghum.

It's sticky. That's the thing. It changes the molecular structure of your blood, of semen, even. It's, you know, semen and sorghum, they can't compete. Sorghum takes it over. Can't tell if they had diabetes or if this is sorghum. I think it could be sorghum. Oh, it's just a splotch of sorghum again.

All down. Not blood, you guys. Get the dogs out of here. It's just sorghum. They's just a splotch of sorghum again no all down not blood you guys get the dogs out of here it's just sorghum they're gonna lick it all up so uh let's talk about somebody here uh let's go back let's go back in time first of all here now let's talk about uh arkansas as we've been talking about let's take it back to 1986 oh boy which this town now up 58 and everything seems still i'm not gonna lie depressing yeah in the 80s we're talking a little more depressing and in the 80s the population dropped from 1980 it dropped from 1023 people in 1980 to 775 in 1990 really the 80s were devastating the

small towns it just the economy just destroyed these small towns for the most part. So this is one of those places. So the 80s, it's depressed. It's not great. And it's Mount Ida to begin with. So not terrific. Let's talk about a young guy named Charles Black. Charles Black is a young attorney.

He's a young attorney, doesn't live in this area. And I'll leave alone where he's from because that's not important, where he's coming in from and where his job is and everything here. But on August 14th, 1986, Chuck, he's a young attorney. His parents, ours, we'll get into them, but his parents have been in politics and law and things like that. So he comes from a good family. And on August 14th, 1986, Chuck, as he's known, Charles Black, receives a call from the sheriff's office of Montgomery County. And they tell him that there's an ambulance at his parents' house right now, and he should probably go there.

This is someone he knows in the sheriff's department, just heard an ambulance was going to that address and gave him a courtesy call said hey just heard an ambulance is going to your parents house don't know what's up but figured you'd want a heads up which is nice if you don't know in case you don't know what you didn't so chuck jumps in his ford bronco at the time here and he races down uh he races there uh to get here at 35 miles an hour at 35 miles an hour cowlings in the back no no no it's just al cowlings was driving he was in the back he was saying i can't do it anymore al i can't do it so he says here that he thought that his dad had uh the way he put it quote had worked himself into an early grave is what he put it his dad he figured his dad had a heart attack his dad was always working and he said oh christ dad finally his ticker finally popped hey his ticket no we'll give him uh you want to give him that one yeah southern italian his ticker finally popped

you know what i mean every time i come over i say pops your ticket it's not gonna go any further what are you doing and he said now leave me alone boy i don't want to do this and i said hey listen pops he's like why do you talk like that anyway? Anyway, I didn't raise you to. You were born in Little Rock. The hell's going on here, boy. Not even Little Rock. Fucking this town, Mount Ida.

So but he gets there and there's a state trooper there also. So he's like, that's an odd one. Why is there a state trooper here for a medical emergency? So at that point, the an officer walked up to him and told him, quote, it's your mother. It looks like she's been murdered, which is not what you want to hear. Yeah.

Generally, you know, I don't think anyone wants to be told their mother has been murdered, especially as is like on the fly like this. Right. So casually. Yeah. He tries to go in the house.

An officer tells him, quote, you don't want to see this, which is not what you want to hear as well. And so, but Chuck said, no, no, I'm going inside here so he goes inside and i guess he sees there's blood all over the walls and ceilings uh it is just uh it's a it's a scene in there i mean it looks like there's been somebody exploded in there based on the amount of blood well yeah then

you find out when he finds his mother uh she's been stabbed in the torso stabbed in the throat a bunch and her throat's been slit so that's a lot of blood spray from arteries and everything else there's blood everywhere there's also a carving there's a carving of an x on her cheek which is strange yeah you know what i mean um i mean that's not normal no it's this is a 62 year old woman right at home yeah you don't expect like this is like what some you know something in la yeah this is some crazy there was some weird gang shit like as you know yeah just doing something on your cheek as some sort of like calling card for revenge this isn't like a normal hey my mom was at home and somebody broke in, stole her wallet,

and killed her. You wouldn't imagine some sort of aggressively torturous behavior like that. This is far too early for DMX or X-Pac to be around. Yeah, this is what I mean. None of this stuff. You can't blame any of them right now. That's the issue.

And they tried. They really did. Or exhibit. They said, is there a black guy anywhere? Does he say X a lot? Anywhere? Just anywhere around here? Because he could like Malcolm X and that's fine.

Also, maybe he was a fan. We could just blame him for it. So instead. Yeah. So Chuck is he's losing it. He says he he says, quote, I remember asking, is she dead? Is she dead? Just because he didn't know chuck uh yeah he said that uh uh he just talked to her she's she called him to invite him over to

have potato soup for dinner and so he's like i just talked to her a few hours ago i don't know what the fuck did between there and there uh he was just didn't know what to do he was losing it and he's a guy who he's like a county attorney so he has he knows how the system works and he knows that he's not just sitting there feeling helpless he's feeling like i need to fix this shit uh so he said quote like a mule with blinders on i had my mind set on finding out who slaughtered my mother like that and then even after we found out my dad was dead set on making sure he got what was coming to him oh so he's pissed it's the southern justice yeah they're going for their

go they want vengeance they're not just sad and sitting around going i hope the police find the guy like he's like i'll fucking find him myself and i'll drag him to the courthouse by the collar if i have to it's happening if we if we get that far if we if we get that far. If we get that far. Exactly. Here. So they do a little investigation. This is the police. And Chuck is involved in this, too. He's not fucking around. They talk to the neighbors, obviously.

They fan out from the scene. And the neighbor, one of the neighbors, reported seeing what they described as a suspicious vehicle on that day. Now, as we've talked about, a lot of these old towns and small towns towns and especially towns full of old people and small towns they see a lot a quote suspicious vehicle means a vehicle that they haven't seen like from their neighbor that doesn't belong to their neighbor if you buy a new car uh what happens is you get you the police show up that day for like two weeks you're pretty suspicious they have to know that that's your car. It's really got to be a thing. Burned into their face.

If you have a visitor, that's a suspicious vehicle, period. It doesn't matter who it is, what it is. You could have the priest coming over. Suspicious. It's all very suspicious. When your priest gets there, so do the cops. Someone's coming. They're taking your plate down.

We've had like five murders solved by old people taking down license plates because they're nosy so uh this is an old green chevy truck okay so an old old in 86 so you can picture that uh so uh they said that it was after that they were that they said that that uh truck was seen heading in the direction of hot springs That shows you how few roads there are around here that you can tell what town away from here it's headed to based on just the direction they're driving. That tells you. If someone pulled out of my driveway, I'd go, I don't know where the fuck he went.

He could have gone anywhere. He could literally be in L.A. or he could be in Albuquerque or Las Vegas. I'm not sure. When I leave your house, you can tell the cops if I'm in the cops if i'm in trouble or if i'm look being looked for jimmy went um away from me away from here i'm not positive that well he went that direction but from that direction he could go fucking everywhere

turned any direction there's freeways that go everywhere i'm not positive so uh here though they knew headed toward hot springs so chuck and his buddy hop in a car and hit the road searching for their head of the cops on the investigation. Which, you know what, though? If this guy is, you know, from this area, too, he knows how competent the force is. And he might say, I can do this better than them right now. I have a little more gusto behind me also. And he's just not waiting. And I know where

they're going i'm going that way too so gone so they look for the truck and uh everywhere uh they search everywhere for the truck and they're looking for anything that they could find that might be evidence they're looking for on the sides of the road they're keeping their eyes peeled for you know discarded clothing uh weapons anything like that. Something could be there. Now, Chuck's friend thwarts the whole thing here. According to this article here, I found Chuck's friend is the game warden. That's what the thing is. Now, as we've discussed before, the game warden is very important.

He has power. So it was Chuck. That's who's investigating, by the way, a murder. A county attorney from another county and the game warden they're hot on the trail this is like a like a silly this is like a bad uh hour-long drama it's like a monk it's like not quite a drama not quite a comedy like it was one of those where it's like a county attorney and the game warden solve all the crimes he's got his his game warden hat on. This dude's got a suit with a loosened tie.

I like that you compared it to Monk. You know what I'm saying? It's like a monk. The funny part is his face. Yeah, look at that. Well, the funny part is the premise. And then past the first time you see him kind of a little OCD at a murder scene, it's like, okay, he's uncomfortable at the murder scenes.

Great, got it, good. Now it's just unfunny uh not as well done law and order thank you appreciate it it's dead 10 minutes in you're like oh i get it the bear the bear says fuck oh he says fuck so it's like look who's talking with a bear great got it see this for 10 minutes the movie's over they already made three of. The Scientologists already made a bunch of those. So, I don't know. They're both Travolta anchors. Same thing. So, anyway, they hit the road.

The game warden gets called away for work. Apparently, it was another murder because the game warden, as we know from Minnesota, is in charge of everything. Or was that Maine? Minnesota was the... I don't remember. He was a bad man. I know that.

The game warden knows what's up. He knows how to do things. So the game warden drops Chuck back off at the mother's house there and then a couple of cousins come, a couple of Chuck's cousins come and they want to help. So Chuck sends them to go look for them.

He says, go drive down that road and keep your eyes peeled on the side of the road. He's organizing search teams. Incredible. Where are the fucking cops in any of these towns? Where's that state trooper who was in the driveway? They went back to the station to really formulate their game plan.

I want someone to show up in a sport coat and say, I'm with the homicide department. I'm going to look into this. And I will not rest until it's over and maybe i don't search for the bloody clothes but i'll tell you where to search because you know i've done this a whole bunch because i'm a homicide detective and it's my job to find people who fucking kill other people not people who poach possum meat or whatever you i don't know what's illegal to hunt but i assume you could probably kill possums as will it's probably yeah it's probably legal that one is squirrels yes where they probably just shoot them off your property no problem so i don't know what's happening now so now this other attorney now

he is sending his cousins to look for bloody clothes because the game warden got called into work because of illegal possum uh hunting or poaching possum poaching because joe kenda's gotta fucking gotta go shoot is that his last name kenda and that's not it it's kim something or kim something god damn it the guy from colorado springs fantastic yes yes yes but he's too busy with the shooting he can't go investigate no he's gotta talk about ones he's already solved that's the problem the next eight years forever forever so uh they actually this is crazy they drive i don't know what's up with this family but they're they're good at investigating murders because he sends his i have cousins if i sent them out and said go find they would like well they'd stop and smoke

weed behind a tree the others would like go over here and fall asleep somebody go out to dinner they would nobody would get anything done he's right do you have cousins i got cousins that just don't know shit would you send them out a murder thing and expect them to come up with results i've got cousins that are cops so they could probably do it but the ones that aren't no you you would even if they found shit by accident you would just you'd almost be better if you just stay out of the way because otherwise you're gonna mess up our search that would be mine like you know what actually yeah and find them like busy work yeah we'll send you over here everyone has dipshit cousins you got a cousin that you that he'd be he'd come back and go i went to dinner but what'd you find i found an amazing

steak knife i found an amazing steak knife look at this i took it from the restaurant like no you can't never mind what are you doing hey you know these people around here crazy you never know somebody could come after you i forgot mine in the car okay i heard there, no, you can't. Never mind. What are you doing? Hey, you know, these people around here are crazy. You never know. Somebody could come after you. I forgot mine in the car. Okay. I heard there's geodes. I heard there's geodes. I'm going to slice it, you know.

The guy said steak knife. Oh, he was kidding. Ah, for Christ's sake. I still got the steak knife. So anyway, these cousins actually find shit. Unbelievable. They're actually useful.

They find in the middle of a logging road, mind you. Okay. This isn't even like on the main drag or off like two feet on the side of the highway on a logging road somewhere. They find a clothing label, not a label, not a bunch of clothes, not a garbage bag full of bloody clothes with a sign on it or not like a, you know, like a Hawaiian shirt hanging from like a tree branch or something

they find a clothing label on a on a logging road that's amazing i his cousin should be homicide or some sort of investigators because that's incredible and it's a clue it's a fucking clue it's from the azar azar azar's men. Okay, so now we've tracked it down to a store. How did you fucking tag come up? I have no fucking idea. How do you find a tag in the middle of a logging road? It's like sawdust and shit. They found a tag.

How well is the eyesight here? So people live to be 100 and their eyesight's amazing in Arkansas. You know what? Maybe I'm going to buy that damn scary horror horror house i'm not imagine i'm moving arkansas no i'm not finding a tag finding a tag and picking it up and i found it here it is so 30 feet away from the tag okay because now they're like we're in the ballpark this is it i stand out i smell i smell more with the tag in their hand one guy's he licks his licks the tag holds it up in the air to the wind follows it and shit like what is happening sniffs

it tastes it puts his face to the ground and follows the sound that's what it is like a like a bloodhound 30 feet away now no honestly in the middle of a logging road to 30 feet in any directions, all sorts of trees. And there's it could be anything at that point. But they fan out. This is incredible. 30 feet away on the on the side of a pine tree was they found a bunch of bloody clothes. OK, they're in a pile, including a men's suit. OK, so they take the suit or they go back they don't take the suit but

they go back to chuck yeah and they go i found this fucking label found a tag i found a tag we think this tag goes with the suit attached blood all over this shit is this a clue in a suit yeah is this a clue here uh so they're like okay well this is a they go back tell chuck chuck tells the police he calls the police hey we did our did our job, your job for you. Yeah, no, my cousins. Just my dipshit cousin Larry is better at this than you are, dummy. But, you know, it's my mom. It's fine.

If it's your mom, you find her. How's that? You find who killed her. But if it's my mom, I guess it's my job now. So incredible. He calls the police and the police, Chuck chuck the game warden and all the cousins head back to the area to investigate further what is happening they all have rubber gloves where's the mayor yeah the mayor's the only person no this isn't a crime scene unit that's

the thing there's a if you find bloody gloves then you bring the crime scene unit in because you don't know what else you're going to find. They cordon that shit off. They go over the fire. Nope. Bring the cousins and we're going to look for more shit. Where's the fire marshal? They better wear the big boots, too, because it's a log.

There's sawdust everywhere. Not gentle. Just rip it apart. Steel toe, fuckers. Yeah, come on. You never know. You want to get yourself hurt out here. A possum comes. You got to kick him. That's rip it apart. Steel toe, fuckers. Yeah, come on. You never know. You want to get yourself hurt out here. A possum comes, you got to kick him.

That's how it works. But don't tell the game warden. OSHA guidelines. OSHA guidelines. So they all go and something else is found. Guess what? Not by a police officer again. This family just doesn't need them at all.

They're just a hindrance. That's all they are. They take them just like for the record in case we find something. We're going to have to give it to you. Write this shit down, fellas. Anybody got a notebook? Yeah, you guys have that. It's right in your shirt pocket there, buddy.

There it is. There it is. Above your gun. So Chuck finds a knife, which it's a logging thing, so people have knives, but it's a salmon deboning knife. Oh, that's not a normal... It's not the kind of knife you would take in a... It's not a logging knife it's a logging thing, so people have knives, but it's a salmon deboning knife. Oh, that's not a normal, yeah. It's not the kind of knife you would take in a- It's not a logging knife.

Not a logging knife. I don't know what a logging knife is, but I- I can't imagine it's a salmon deboner. It's probably not a salmon, but it's probably more of a Rambo crocodile Dundee style- It's a heavy one. Combat knife. Right. It looks like, in case you get attacked by a large animal.

Not a thin blade. Not a- With a hook on the end. With a boning. Yeah, you know, with a picture of a jumping fish on the handle. You know what I'm saying? That's a different... A bone handle?

Yeah, it's just a different thing. We've all seen those. He finds this knife under a nearby bush. So, like I said, they don't need the police here. Now, they figure out that they find Azar's men's store.

It is a small men's clothing store so it's not a big chain or anything like that it's a particular mom and pop shop that does their own thing it's in montgomery alabama so they're like all right here so they go to they bring this suit to azar's men's store and they say can you tell us anything about it first things first first, don't touch it. Don't a don't touch it. First of all, it's bloody. We are going to give it to the cops and we're done because, you know, they brought it there, not the cops. You got this.

You don't take it yourselves. It's on a hanger and plastic wrap and everything. I'm on break. So that's probably for the best. If y'all just going to take it, it's back there in the evidence. Take whatever else you need. Just, you know, shut the door when you're finished, I guess. What a story.

Oh, don't touch the cocaine from last week, too, because I got to have that for later. But they check this out. Their records, they find this suit in their records because they make their own shit here. They find the suit and they find that they made alterations to the suit. How long ago? find that they made alterations to the suit how long ago so the store owners were able to determine to whom they sold the suit to from this what the fuck so from his cousin finding a tag on a logging road in the middle of nowhere they have traced this back to this this is amazing a tag here how do you murder in a custom suit that's the other shit he's got a fucking customized

yeah altered suit yeah this is weird so they're saying we're looking for a murderer in a customized business suit that's weird this is a weird not your normal thing that you'd be looking for so now they're like what's happening here uh so the woman they find out a woman had purchased this suit for her husband but he died years ago so uh that's so they're like awesome we found it they get to her house and they're like did you buy a suit here she's like i absolutely did bought it for my husband they're like we'd sure like to talk to him she's like me too i miss him and she breaks down in tears and points to his the grave the direction of the cemetery says i'm sure he'll his ears are open if you want to ask him any questions. His ashes are on the mantle.

Give him a whisper. Brings out a bier. Gentlemen, hold on. I heard if you polish it, then they'll listen. So he's been dead for some time. So they're like, fuck. Okay, that's a death. I mean, to get that far and get to the house.

Imagine how excited they were standing outside the house going, can't wait to see our guy. As soon as he opens the door, we're going to go, hey, motherfucker. Guess what? We're going to slam him up against the wall. This is going to be hot shit. And then an old lady answers the door and says, I bought it for my long dead husband. And then all the air just comes out. my long dead husband and then all the air just comes out everybody chuck's cousin like throws a bottle through a window out of pure rage slashes the lady's tires oh what the fuck you gotta be

kidding me this lady's full of shit hey chucky i'm telling you this lady's full of shit yeah i don't know where these people are from but just full of shit oh his cousin is that guy his character his cousin i made him one of my cousins like my cousin nicky in pennsylvania this guy's a but just full of shit. His cousin is a Zach Galifianakis character. His cousin, I made him one of my cousins. Like my cousin Nikki in Pennsylvania. This guy's a fucking asshole. What are you kidding me? Then he tried to sell you Coke.

I didn't see Zach Galifianakis throwing like a Mountain Dew through the window. God damn it. Damn it. No. Just super angry. We've come this far. We found it in the logging road a logging road the lady's like i'm sorry can you let go of my house coat please why are you choking me we drove all the way across

fucking arkansas for this jesus so uh she though says well i donated the suit there you go i know i didn't throw it out i donated the suit to a charity organization there. And so they said, do you know which one? She said, sure do. So they went and talked to them. This charity organization, because of its nonprofit tax exempt status, is meticulous at keeping receipts. Really? Meticulous at their receipt keeping because they have to for every dime.

And they keep a record of donation receipts and anyone purchasing these. Name and address and all that shit. And they figure out a name. They have a name, and it's Jonas Whitmore. All right, Jonas. Who bought this suit a few years ago. So who knows if he brought it to this one or he donated to Goodwill

because they don't care about shit. They'll just take it and throw it on a rack next to a Lazy Susan and a bunch of olive oil pouring things. And it's all in one table. Just whatever. It's fine. None of those weird racks.

Goodwill's the most fun to be in. Strange. Just a weird pasta hanging rack. Giant pasta racks is what they are. I've found that that's my new torture for my kids when they're bad. Oh, yeah. Because my son, I took him in there a couple weeks ago because nobody has jackets on sale yet and i was trying to look for one for this fucking for this tour that we're doing yeah for this winter i'm just looking for one i can't find one anywhere so i'm

like maybe goodwill in august and phoenix you're not gonna so like maybe in goodwill i'll find like a p code or something so i took my kids in there with my i walked in with my son and he goes dad this is so embarrassing i'm like what's the's the matter? He goes, poor people shop here, Dad. And I'm like, yeah, and so do I. Hang on to the arm, son, because you're going in with me. I was going to say, he has a much different upbringing than we had. That would have been like, cool, stuff we can afford. That would have been my thing.

Exactly. We can afford a lot of this stuff, not all of it. We can buy almost all of it. But most of this stuff, we could buy any couple items we want. We could probably choose from. We could certainly walk down the toy aisle with our arms out, put them all in a basket, and walk the fuck out of here. We could just impulse buy a TV.

Just impulse it. No problem. You know what that's like? I feel like I'm hot shit. man big man so now from now when we were walking out he goes thank god we didn't have to buy anything and i was like you know what next time you're fucking bad i'm gonna take you in there i'm gonna make you pick it out and you're gonna wear that shit what you do is you make him buy underwear and make him buy it that's what you do you go here you go son they're your size and then make him pay for it you don't have to wear them go buy them but you're buying them

this is important in character building my friend real character building lesson think you're better than people you don't have a job motherfucker you're better than you are poor really poor you're buying underwear yeah look at you you have nothing. Yeah, look at you. You have nothing. With money I gave you. You didn't even have the money to buy underwear at Goodwill. I had to give you money for your shitty Goodwill underwear. Yeah, they're shitty. That's right.

You can wash them, but there's always going to be the thought that people's shit was in there and it's not yours. Now go look at the nice lady behind the register with a smile and buy that shit. Yeah, who's wearing underwear from here. Right. You bastard. Don't make her feel bad either. Yeah, stop being a fucking prick. Be polite, you little shit. in the register with a smile and buy that shit yeah who's wearing underwear from here so bastard don't make her feel bad either stop being a fucking prick be polite you're acting like you're better than people yeah not no you're nothing you're a child so they're interested in figuring

out who jonas whitmore is to at least see where the trail goes from there. Following the trail of a suit. This is crazy. So they find it is Jonas Houghton Whitmore III. That's a lot of names. That's a lot of names. And a third. The third. So now we have a guy who's a suit purchaser with a Whitmore III on the end. He sounds like he's probably upper crust. He is not.

He is as trash as trash has ever been here. And two people before him were proud of that trash. So trash, in fact, that they named theirs. That's right. That's rich people and really trashy people. That's who named their kids after themselves. Either you're too poor or too rich, I feel like. Some people just do it for whatever.

And ethnic people, you're keeping it going. I don't know what the fuck people are doing. So anyway, he's 42 years old's a, you know, you're keeping it going. I don't know what the fuck people are doing. So anyway, he's 42 years old. He is just an interesting fella here. He's kind of colorful. He has a wife of, you know,

dubious legal status. Yeah. They're sort of separated and sort of together and sort of divorced and everything like that. He's got four children. Holy Christ. Of various ages. Uh,

from, yes, one, uh, daughters that are a little older from previous relationships and that sort of thing decent petty crime record yeah uh things like burglaries and a lot of juvenile arrest you know shit like that he was a juvenile screw-up yeah he's born in 1944 he went into the army in 1962 so think about that he was in that's pre-vietnam so he probably was in the

early maybe early wing or more not he could have been here but it was a that's a different time in the army that's still like the korea world war ii type army there was respect in that it was just a different type of thing it wasn't the uh being forced to fight in jungles army that you know without signing up and right you know and and then having kids be upset about it you know back then back then you just got a crew cut and you fucking went in the army and that was that so it wasn't a big deal uh but he he's got a lot of problems just basic basic issues here uh we'll get into those a little bit more a little bit later here but uh we figure out that on august 14th 1986 which is the day chuck received that fateful call right um uh jonas here was looking for a property to rent in mount

ida he wanted to rent a place and he stopped at the house of a woman named clara stanley which sounds like an old lady i just see her she's got a pie cooling on a windowsill. Big time. To ask about a rental property. Apparently she had a rental property, and I don't know if it was now occupied or what it was. But she lives, Stanley here, Clara Stanley lives right up the road from Chuck's mother, whose name is Essie May Black. So she lives right up the road from her. And she says that this was about 245 when jonah stopped at her house this clara stanley and apparently whitmore came up to the fence that surrounds her yard to talk to her how you doing yeah um so and so he showed up went wearing a suit

yep looking sharp hey y'all hey y'all how you doing i'm looking for a property you go out to rent a property try to look respectful especially if you have a criminal record. You really want to, like, you've got to overcome who you are with how you look. And while he looks like a fine young man to me, it's got to be one of those things here. Just watch the left-hand one instead of the right. That's all it is, yeah. So Whitmore then apparently was told that Mrs. Black has a rental property somewhere, this Essie Mae Black, who lives about a mile down the road,

and you can go talk to her. And so he says, okay, sure, no problem. So this Clara Stanley calls Essie Mae Black and says, I'm going to send this fellow down here. And she says, sounds good. And so he goes down to Essie Mae Black's house. Essie Mae said, sure, come on in, you know, have a good one, sit down. Made a couple phone calls for him regarding a couple other rental properties that she knew of in the area.

Got a friend who's got a place. People really go above and beyond. Yeah, they're bored, too. It's 1986 in rural Arkansas. It was pre-MLS. Yeah. Is that what it is? Yeah.

Yeah, what's that? That's the search thing? Is that an M is yeah yeah what's in the what's that that's the search the search thing is that an mls i thought you meant the soccer league that's yeah because that's what that is too but that's the first thing i thought was this i'm like well when i said it out loud i was like that's the soccer thing i don't know if that's what this is i'm not sure mls is that the listing services oh for real estate yeah okay jesus christ i'm not sure mls right well back then you'd get the paper yeah right right and if it's not in the paper i don't know it's not there's no online there's no anything like that mls if yeah that's what it is right i think

it is i don't want to keep saying that if that's what it is yeah that seems right to me listing service that's anyway anyway pre that shit if you knew somebody that's going for rent you want to tell them yeah you don't go talk to you know we'll call them yeah because i know somebody's got some shit otherwise it's just you put it in the newspaper and that's it so most of the time probably i would think you'd rather have word of mouth too than a stranger or something like that so this guy she invites him in makes a bunch of uh makes a bunch of things like that now this isn't it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid weid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing.

This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free

by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1 and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max,

starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The Official Jinx Podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Normal thing for him with the suit, basically. Apparently the suit is like a family member of his said that this was his normal way of getting money. Normally when he put a suit on, you're like, oh, he's going out to get some money somehow. They said that he would get his suit out, leave town for a couple of days and come back with either money or jewelry which is frightening to think about

where is that coming from what are you doing he's lying to somebody somewhere that's what i mean it's like i put my conan gear on and yeah super misrepresenting that's the thing so uh se may makes uh some calls for no se may we'll talk about a little bit she's 62 years old she is from uh she's from uh montgomery county arkansas she's lived there she married uh bill black in 1946 wow so i mean you know old school she was the montgomery county in arkansas county clerk from 1975 to 1982 making her the first woman to hold elected office in montgomery county how about that so she's a she's a trailblazer here. She's literally the first woman in the county

to hold an elected office. So that's who Chuck comes from. That's why Chuck says, let's go look for this shit, round them up, because his mom isn't taking no for an answer, isn't taking wait your turn or whatever. She goes and gets elected. You go get what you want.

And he said, I want to find who killed my fucking mom. That's what I want. And so I don't need the cops for that. I'll send my cousins out and they'll do a better job. So that's funny how times have changed that back then you see somebody in a suit. You respect them because they've earned a position to be in a suit. Like, what are you up to today? I'm like, go fuck yourself.

You don't know shit about work. Yeah. Not only that, I go. I now being a dick that I am, I go. I kind of laugh a little bit inside because I go, you think you're but you have to wear that i wear a hat to my job i wore a naz t-shirt to my job but it's fine and we you know i'm wearing cut off sweatpants right now that's what i'm saying you know what i mean like i go i win fucker you know enjoy your fucking suit i'm not rich but you know what i don't think you are either i can tell by your shitty shoes mister that's a dead giveaway that's your best that's your best

suit yeah i know it's up i can see you wear those shoes all the fucking time oh yeah oh yeah little things on the pants too you can tell i know what you're up to let's say new balance those are fucking are you wearing sketchers. Those are waiter shoes. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Best Fiends. Oh, Best Fiends.

That app, right? Oh, that app. That game. I'm telling you guys, you need a mental palate cleanser. There's a go-to refresher out there for you that a lot of people,

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She's super into it. I'll say, what are you doing? And she'll just give me a look. And I go, okay, I know what you're doing. And she's liking it. It's fun. It's so much fun. And then it makes me want to play because she's so into it.

And Best Fiends updates the game monthly with new levels and events so it never gets old. And you don't need internet to play at all. So you can do it on a plane or things like that. It's so much easier, which means you can play anywhere. No wonder it has 100 million downloads globally. Fantastic.

Engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters in this five-star rated mobile game. Download Best Fiends free in the Apple App Store or Google Play. That's friends without the R. Best Fiends, get it now. And now back to the show.

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about a new podcast from Parcast. Oh. Parcast Network, Jay. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about a new podcast from Parcast. Oh. Parcast Network, Jay. That's right. This show here, they seem like a friend or even family.

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psychology of hustlers, swindlers, and fraudsters and shares with you the greatest cons of all time, like Theranos founder, CEO Elizabeth Holmes. I've seen, I've read the book about her. Oh, goodness. It is crazy. Just like, no, no, it's fine. Just keep saying it's fine and just grifting everybody it's terrible the fast one she did she grew her company to a value of nine billion dollars despite the fact that the flagship technology never worked didn't work could never get it to work it's crazy also

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This is going to be super interesting. Spot the con before it spots you, or spot the con before it finds you. There you go. I'm sorry get their tagline right here search for and subscribe to con artists on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts again search con artists or visit parcast.com slash con artists to listen now and now back to our show son of a bitch you're wearing comfy waiter dress shoes stop bullshitting no no no no no this isn't a this isn't a banquet hall sir sorry you didn't even go to dillard's and get some staff come on

man piece of shit jesus so johnston and murphy like a man just kidding let's get some sparries on you yeah so uh uh essie may here i mean this is how old school they are essie may who's the daughter of vern her dad's name's vern and her mom's name's nanny yeah vern and nanny yeah that's that's that's amazing here and that's a real name that's on a birth certificate nanny oh yeah nanny's a real name and she and bill they got married 1946 they have six children all sons jesus i have six sons i'll have no daughters in this house he literally was like hold on wait she wanted you no wait i'm not gonna okay now we'll have sex wait i i sensed a boy coming up the pipe i feel like he really

i felt a boy swim down my shaft yeah wait wait wait, Essie. Wait. Ah, there's my son. Here he comes. Wait a second. Oh, there we go. Now it's time. There will be no vaginas in this house unless it's my own. My own. That's right.

They have twins. Yeah. Bill and Phil. Why are you going to name the kids Bill and Phil, man? Come on. I know one's William and one's Phil, but you know they're going to call them Bill and Phil. Yeah. I guess Bill is the junior. Yeah. And then Phil. Jimmy John. They named one's William and one's Phil, but you know they're going to call him Bill and Phil. I guess Bill is the junior.

And then Phil. Jimmy John. They named one Jimmy John. Two names. Jimmy John. Yeah, it is Arkansas. Bill and Phil and Jimmy John. This is Bill, Phil, Jimmy John.

This sounds like the jerk introducing a family that he started, not the one he's from. Alvin. No. Okay, and then Charles, as we talked about talked about and then matthew now okay back to the house she's making phone calls she offers him and he accepts milk and cookies okay she makes him milk and cookies how old is this guy 42 jesus but if someone offers you i'm 41 if someone offers me milk and cookies yeah i am taking it she's in her 60s i'm in that's what i mean they're probably homemade they're amazing these aren't chips ahoy? I'm in. That's what I mean. They're probably homemade.

They're amazing. These aren't Chips Ahoy. No. She made these cookies. That's what I'm saying. They aren't even Toll House homemade. No, no, no. She put baking soda in this shit.

Baking powder. She didn't believe in that Toll House. Yeah, that's garbage. That's not how her mom taught her to do it. Pre-made? That's not how Nanny taught her to do it. There's eggs and shit in this. Yeah, Vern wouldn't eat in that shit.

Vern wants it. So she knows how to make these cookies. Cookies and milk. I mean, this is wh knows how to make these cookies and she cookies and milk. I mean, this is wholesome. Would you like cookies and milk? Sure, I would, ma'am. That's nice. And especially from her. If this woman offers you anything, you accept it just as to be polite anyway.

So she does. Now, it's at this point that Whitmore says he remembers seeing a blue billfold and a white purse. So he's looking around a little more than he should and he says that at that point he realized the way that that uh that essie may was standing that he she was really resembled his mother yeah and at that point he had a flashback he had a flashback he says that uh his mother and his aunt who he uh refers to as aunt kiki always k-i-k-i aunt kiki is going to come up a lot through all this uh aunt kiki uh and his mom used to sexually abuse him as a child he says and that certain events would trigger flashbacks of that abuse so he says he doesn't remember what happened next.

There's just a flashback. He's got milk and cookies one second. Next second, he remembers seeing that this lady resembles his mom, and he just remembers his hand, quote, moving up and down. And he says, as he told Mrs. Black, don't mom, don't mom, don't. That's what he kept saying, that he was shouting at her, calling her mom. And he remembers at that point, all he remembers is he kind of came to walking to the car with blood all over him.

What the fuck? So that's what he remembers. Okay. Jonas is a little fucked up in the head. We'll talk about Jonas here. He's convicted of a forgery charge in california and that was his most recent kind of heavy conviction he sat his probation revoked in 1979 because he was on probation for something else when he was arrested for forgery convicted of forgery right so he did some time

in prison in california and in other states as well he's been around he was convicted of attempted robbery in california 1964 which is only 22 years before that this now it seems like 100 years ago yeah but at that point it was still in like the range of your priors yeah uh 1964 of attempted robbery which was considered a violent crime robbery murder rape robbery and assault violent crime so it's in the violent crime spectrum which is important later uh juvenile record messed up family basically he's like knicky from greece that's him yeah he's like knicky where you just know his home life's fucked up and like dropping hickeys on people yeah you know his mom's like he comes home and his mom's like shit-faced in a chair with like one pantyhose leg on like with a fucking five

cans of beer around her and a can of wild dose bottle wild turkey rolling around the floor not even like snuggled up with a hand draped over the end of the couch his dad's been arrested that night the phone's ringing because he's trying to get out get bail money and knick he's like i don't know what to do that i don't know what i'm doing that's what i feel like kind of he's got that sort of sort of kind of feel to it so a neighbor the neighbor who they talked to earlier he she says that once they know what whitmore's vehicle is that that the vehicle he has is the vehicle that they saw leaving the place truck that's the green truck at approximately

3 35 now uh se may was found dead she had at least six stab wounds in her torso, in her chest, and three in her back, and also a few in the throat. There were so many, and her throat was also slit. So there were so many, it was really hard to tell at one point here. But some of which were to depths of nine and a half inches. Oh, that's a big knife. That's a big knife, and that's a huge thrust. It only takes to plunge. I can't can't imagine it hits bones it hits things knives get stuck so right away through a chest plate isn't easy right and then you go through that and then

you have bones if you hit spine if it's like keep keep going through that that is takes force they say the sound is similar to when you jam a knife through a watermelon it's exactly the same as a matter of fact i've done that in a watermelon and that's that's hard i made it no i made a film where we had to have this guy get stabbed a whole bunch so i made the sound effect and it was i put a t-shirt on a watermelon and it sounded to the point where at that point in the movie everyone was like man that was fucking awesome they were like that shit's that's so real they were like dude that sounded nasty like everyone winces like jesus that's it just makes it like it's like a shocking thing it like it makes it the scene from just a a stabbing and he stabbed him to like oh jesus that was brutal it's fucking awesome it

sounds so real and uh that's what we're talking about it goes from the scene in uh psycho in the shower to the scene in the field in casino that's pretty much entirely different yeah or like yeah when he's stabbing when joe pesci's stabbing uh billy bats in the trunk yeah yeah that sounds like a chicken or something but it's probably but the thud of the baseball bats is yeah it's a lot it's a lot that's so yeah exactly it's so it feels so real it's brutal so uh nine and a half inches her throat was cut and there's an x carved on the right on her right cheek yeah that's weird so which is really weird now there is a hundred and fifty dollars missing from her purse and one hundred and twenty six dollars missing from a kitchen drawer okay uh now he at this point

whitmore drove down the highway and uh he said that he he drove at that point down the highway, and he said that he drove at that point down a highway and followed a car driven by another woman at this point. He said that when that car turned off the highway onto another road, he also did the same. So at this point, he said he passed the woman on the road, and then he ended up stopping and motioning for this car to pass him. Like, no, go ahead, go ahead. motioning for this car to pass to pass him okay like now go ahead go ahead and uh uh the one of the neighbors there was a neighbor here who later on they find that she was the driver of the other car and she can kind of corroborate where he was at whatever time uh he says that he stopped because

he wanted to pull off the road and go to a wooded area to discard his bloody clothing right duh uh he said that he tore out the labels from his suit and then left the suit behind a tree so he tore the labels out on purpose wow to not be able to identify the suit because he thought this comes from a they're going to be able to trace this back suit this is a nice suit he did that but rather than take him with him put him in another location he put him over shoulder 30 feet away literally and on a logging road which i mean you wouldn't expect right you don't expect anyone's going to probably find that but they did so it's just fascinating it's odd he went through all that trouble and then like lebron them

that's it with nothing so yeah he stated that uh he did that he said he washed his hands and tried to wash the blood off the knife that he was carrying he was unable to clean the knife he said he couldn't get it clean it was just it's a lot of blood it's in every crevice and you really need to you need a brush for that you need to do like old school like gasoline washing like a shop parts so it's so kind of solvent yeah that's what it needs literally barbasol give it some barbasol uh so he just threw the knife away again in the direction of just whatever he just kind of tossed it away and that was ended up being found under and that's fixed yeah uh so obviously the uh his clothing was the same uh was the same there and uh his clothing and a knife stain with blood here that was the by the way that knife they tested the

blood comes back same as the victims clearly that was found there uh the neighbor uh the the labels were removed there and they traced it all the way back like we talked about uh from there he says that uh uh this is amazing he says that he purchased a he went to the store now and purchased a quote, as he puts it, quote, fancy card for his wife, which is a card, like a card, like a Hallmark card. Yeah, he went and he's like, hmm, what card do you get when you murder a retiree? And then you go home afterwards with your only good suit gone. Better not show up without some Hallmark. Well, let's see.

Fancy card. This one's got pink and lacy things on the bow on it that's pretty i like that it comes in one of those clear sleeves that you gotta take off now that's fancy because she could keep it forever and it'll never get messed up this is good or is it one of the ones that opens and there's a sing song oh my goodness i don't even know if that technology exists yet but i'm'm going to invent it. So he gets a fancy card for his wife and a carton of cigarettes with one, for probably both of them or whoever, who knows,

with one of the $100 bills. And then later on, he bought gas with another one of the $100 bills. You've got to break the bills up here. So then he says, when he returned home home his wife was like hey where's your clothes right which is a reasonable question remember your money getting suit where'd it go where's your money usually you come home with the suit and jewelry and money this

time you don't have anything well you have a fancy card and i appreciate that the sentiment in here is beautiful it really is fantastic i know you wouldn't have come up with that, but it's pretty fancy. I enjoyed the song. I appreciate it. I enjoyed the You Are My Sunshine, My Only Sunshine playing repeatedly when I opened it. It's sung by Alvin and the Chipmunks. It's pretty good. It's good. It's pretty impressive.

So he, not only did he not have his clothes, but he immediately dyed his hair and shaved his beard and mustache. Yeah. Which is an odd thing to do when you get home. but he immediately dyed his hair and shaved his beard and mustache, which is an odd thing to do when you get home. When you leave with a suit to get money and a place to stay, and you come home with no suit, needing to dye your hair and beard and shave your beard. Very little money, a full tank of gas, a carton of cigarettes, and a sing-song card. And a fancy card. And now it's time to do some hair work weird and then he says after that making it even stranger gather your shit we gotta go let's go we're moving today

we're moving to where we're driving to montana now really that's where they he says we're going so shit's way different than it was this morning we have 226 dollars well not anymore carton of cigarettes some gas and a fancy car that's gonna run you at least two dollars even in the 80s so where do they where do they go yeah where do you go when you're when your people are looking for you maybe you go you go to roundup montana which is pretty much deadwood you don't you don't go somewhere named after like a deadly chemical yeah that or what they do when they get the criminal that's the thing yeah round up montana it sounds rural i'll tell you that much here i'm gonna go to arrested uh california what the hell are you talking about

go to fucking put my ass in jail colorado that's where we're going going to slap the cuffs on her I'm going to Bookham, Dano, Detroit Big House, Maryland that's where I'm headed you're winning because you know states and I know cities one of us has smoked weed before the show that's the funny part one of us one of us drank a water

and had his wits about yeah so and still said detroit detroit that's all right we knew where you're going with that we all know where detroit is. No big deal. I got your back, Jimmy. All right. You're fine. I got you covered. Open to Hooskow, Indiana. Open to Hooskow, Indiana. There you go. You nailed it.

Hey, Hava Nagila. We'll give you that. All right. It's a celebration. We did it. That's wonderful. God damn it. So, yeah, well, this is September 22nd, 1986.

In a deadly chemical Montana. In a deadly chemical Montana. In cancer Montana. Melanoma Montana. Here we are. So, September 22nd, 1986. So, six weeks goes by. Almost five weeks goes by between nothing's heard.

They know they're looking for Jonas Whitmore. They can't find Jonas Whitmore. He's disappeared off the face of the earth. They search around Arkansas. Anybody that might have seen him, nobody knows where the fuck he went. Him and his wife have vanished into thin air. And they're flat ass, bro. They're flat.

Well, by now, they must be. Yeah. A sheriff, James Carmack of Montgomery County, calls the sheriff of Muscle Shell County, Montana. What? Muscle Shell. Like the muscle. Yeah. Like the, you know, County, Montana. What? Muscle Shell. Like the muscle? Yeah. Like the, you know, like a muscle.

There's definitely none there. The fucking five-hour or whatever it is. Muscle Shell, Montana. I don't know if they breed them. We got a big muscle farm in that pond, boy. In Montana? I have no idea what's happening. Why it's Muscle Shell County, Montana.

They found one when they got there. It's a sign. Somebody brought it from an ocean. It it's Muscle Shell County, Montana. They found one when they got there. It's a sign. Somebody brought it from an ocean. It's a Muscle Shell. It's a sign. There must be mussels. There's mussels. I found mussels in the prairie.

It's just a shell. There is a Muscle Shell in our wheat field. Oh, my goodness. Clearly, this is a miracle. And a suit label in Mulligan Road. It's a miracle. And a suit label in Malagon Road. So, yeah, this sheriff calls Muscle Shell County, Montana Sheriff to tell him that Montgomery County thinks that you might have a guy named Jonas Whitmore III who we've been looking for up in your county.

He's wanted here for a capital murder. So we'd really love to get some FaceTime with him. That'd be terrific. So we'd really love to get some FaceTime with him. That'd be terrific. So this sheriff and investigators here from the Arkansas State Police head up to, they begin, they don't even fly them up there. That's how they drove. They send a bunch of investigators in a car to drive from Arkansas to Montana to try to get a capital murder suspect.

So this is not like, when you get there, you get there. This is kind of time sensitive. This is a bit much. And they make them drive. Like, jeez, they can't put them on a fucking flight? Back then, too, all those different airlines, you could have found some shithole airline to put them on,

some bargain airline. I guess they all rotate driving. If there's a bunch of them, it just never stops. Three different investigators go up there, and I guess you just drive the whole way through uh so oh by the way how did they find out he was there yeah what do you how do you think they found him um i'm gonna give you a guess how would you find an invite if you were a criminal think about the way you'd cover your tracks and how you might trip up once in a while and be found i don't i threaten somebody and say listen right i've fucking murdered people

and then people run your mouth i even do you know do something stupid get caught shoplifting in town something rob a gas station you would think so right yeah something criminally uh no he does the exact opposite of that this is not applied for a job worse worse jimmy this isn't like he robbed a stage coach and he's going to the next town changing his identity he put in a federal change of address form what the fuck put in a do a little change of address for me in case you're looking for me for a murder or anything let me

write down my address for y'all all right to get some forwarding mail you know I just ordered highlights fuck is he I ordered highlights. I ordered Sports Illustrated. They told me it was a football phone coming with it. And if I don't get my football phone, I'm going to cancel that. I'll tell you what.

What the federal change? Are you an idiot? You're a fugitive. Like a month goes by. He's like, I'm sure they're not looking for me anymore. I mean, it's got to be swept under the rug. It's all news by now. And I'm sure the kids all forgot about it all the cousins no one's looking no one wants anything so they go over and they find him and they arrest him at his house where

he's living because he told them his exact address didn't even fake it or anything not even a po box and get the town right now we got to look for him he said here's my house idiot uh he's arrested about 5 p.m on september 23rd by the muscle shell county sheriff and by an fbi special agent john munis of the fbi muscle shell county sheriff open up oh shit how great is that they get to say that muscle shell county open up and they just giggle on the porch. I said open up. There's all sorts of boiling water jokes and shit like that.

You know how they open. So good. If you don't open, I ain't going to eat you. Means you're bad. I'm just kidding. I'm going to kick the door in. Why is that funny? I just saw Reno 911. That's what it's you like i'm just kidding i'm just kidding i'm gonna kick the door in let's go no problem jesus so good so they uh they go and get

him and then the investigators from arkansas show up at about 10 p.m that night and they're in their ford festiva that they all pulled into like a clown car. Jesus Christ. They see him in the Roundup Jail, which is like, I assume, just a sheriff's desk in like one jail with a key ring hanging and a dog sleeping by it. And you're trying to get the dog to get the keys. There's like a corral arena and he's like tied to that thing that goes around in circles. Running around.

Come on, guys. This is fucked up. This isn't funny. He needs his exercise. Come on, guys. This is fucked up. This isn't funny. He needs his exercise. Supreme Court says so. Yard time. So good. Now, when he's first taken into custody at 5 p.m., the FBI agent Mirandizes him.

Now, the Arkansas investigators show up at about 3 a.m. They show up at 10. They get briefed and all that. They all share their intel, because back then they couldn't email it to each other or whatever. You've got to drive it across the country. You have to drive it to Montana to hand it to another man. Here you go, sir. And so they don't get to him until about 3 a.m. They've got to get their interrogation shit together, too. What are you going to going to do it's a plan they all do these people haven't worked together before it's

people from one state an fbi guy and roundup or muscle shell guy he should have nothing to do with this right i think his his part in this is played it's done he's done goodbye y'all can use that room if you want y'all can use the interrogation room if you want to use my office i don't care i'm gonna go to bed i'm out of jokes we've used them all there's cokes in the little fridge if y'all want any but replace them reply because we don't have we can't just keep putting cokes in there all the budget won't stand for it so uh yeah they said they could have waited till later in the war in the morning to talk to him but they thought the sooner they gave him the miranda warnings the better they wanted to get in there uh there was no uh they they said there was no like uh there's nothing the court even finds

later there's nothing there's no advantage to waiting till three o'clock in the morning it's like they couldn't they didn't tell him he wasn't allowed to sleep or anything like that so whatever uh they didn't and they do not attempt to interrogate him at that time they just mirandize him at three o'clock and they go just know you're have a nappy have a nap yeah do whatever uh so there was just that basically later on he's going to say this was a uh police misconduct and all this type of shit and the courts are going to say no it's not stupid they just keep mirandizing you that's fine they can mirandize you every five minutes it doesn't hurt their their cause so uh they said that he didn't end up giving a statement now until september 26th uh he gives statements

finally yeah a while down the road uh so uh he said that they are given to him at 5 15 a.m and then at three o'clock a.m and on september 24th on septemberth, that's when they drove back to Arkansas. So now all of them and him in a car driving back to Arkansas. Torture. Imagine that ride. Good Lord. I'd rather be...

If you're him, you just shoot me in the fucking head. I gotta sit in the car with you guys while you tell me what a dick I am for three days and interrogate me. Get in. We're going downtown. Seven states away.

Seven states away. And then they're gonna have to keep stopping at diners where they take this cuffed and shackled man and sit him down don't worry ma'am we're it's like ridiculous this is a stupid movie and gravy yeah this is a weird this is midnight run is what we're doing here charles drone's coming in it's a disaster there's biscuits and gravy in every single town that's it that would That would be torture enough. Yeah, he'll have biscuits and gravy. No more. No more. I haven't shit in a week.

I'll tell you everything. It's like biscuit cement. The gravy's like grout. It just keeps it in there. Help me. So, yeah, so it's at that point that he gave an incriminating statement to the officers.

After they get to Arkansas, he gave another incriminating statement on the 27th, and then, just for good measure, one more on the 28th okay repeats his whole thing i'm guilty i did it yes i did oh by the way those other two times still guilty got it just to make sure here uh so later on he's going to argue that he shouldn't have uh police conduct from memorandizing him at three o'clock in the morning days before that means that none of that should have counted okay that's going to be his argument later on here didn't doesn't that mean anything that you say now you're fucked pretty

much yeah you're miranda well because he thinks that after the miranda now everything i say now i'm cool well he thinks that they shouldn't have mirandized him at three in the morning then later on because they're saying in the car basically they're in the car for days yeah they're not they can't just keep me remirandizing it's not an interrogation so much as it's just a ride in the car but it's kind of a de facto interrogation because you're in a car with three cops for a long trip that's the same as being in an interrogation room it's just different because we're mobile now but it's the same thing but what they're saying is that his statements because he wasn't remirandized in the car because they were just like we're just driving okay and his statements on the 26th and 27th in the car were spontaneous they said we didn't ask him shit he

just told us shit got it so that's the thing and that he's saying well why didn't you mirandize me and which they probably should have because mirandize me every room we go into yeah well i mean at least maybe every day we get into the car. Hey, by the way, Miranda warning still stands, and just give him a little refresher. I mean, I don't know if he's going to sign the sheet every time. That seems ridiculous when you're in the car with somebody steady, but once you get into that car, that's like an interrogation room,

and you're taking him alone. I would like a Mirandize. Like, hey, in case you say any shit in this car ride, by the way, just so you know, it's on the record. You got a point, but I just figured... But I mean, it's either way. You're talking to a cop. Like, hey, in case you say any shit in this car ride, by the way, just so you know, it's on the record. You got a point. But I mean, it's either way. You're talking to a cop. Three cops.

What the fuck do you think you're... Three cops. Their job is to put you away. They've told you that. You dummy. Specifically. They've Miranda'd you. They rounded you up and round up.

They even Miranda'd you and told you all about it, that you didn't have to talk and shit like that. So the spontaneous, they said even if the statements were not spontaneous to court a later later rule they would still be admissible because uh the case basically there's another case that a supreme court case that says that you you were uh given your miranda warning you know why you're in custody it's not like they took you in and sat you there didn't say shit to you then took you in the car and then you burst it out because you didn't know why you were in custody right you know why you're there they mirandized you about it before you understand that there's nothing different from that than being driven

back to arkansas with these same cops you get it so they're saying same cops you're talking about the same goddamn case yeah so they're saying a spontaneous uh utterance at that point would be on you yeah basically that's a you're wa're waving your Miranda rights is what they're getting out at that point. So, wow, that's days go by, but it's all in one big thing. So, yeah, he was given different different things here. They said to him, they gave him the if you cannot afford a lawyer, one may be appointed for you before questioning at any time during questioning, if you so desire.

And in response, he said, quote, I'm ready and willing to answer questions or make a statement without first consulting with a lawyer or without knowing the lawyer's present during questioning so that's the thing that he has to sign right so he does that uh he acknowledged that shit that's the part that he initialed that says he's willing to make a statement and they're saying that carries through sure basically to if he does it in the car uh so he also answered yes on the second uh random warning they said uh would you still be willing to answer questions he said yes and so they said it was in it was invalid though it was uh he said at 3 a.m when they gave it to him he was in a condition of less than full awareness uh which would... I suppose.

Then why... But what about the 515 one? Then why are you signing shit? That's the thing. And what about the 515 one? Now you've had a two-hour nappy, and now you're... Yeah.

They basically say the law doesn't specify for times of day being better for you to get Miranda warnings. Like, three o'clock's inconvenient for me to get a Miranda warning. So the 515 one, fine. But if you're going to re-Mirandize me, you've got to wait until at least 730 the next morning. Come back at 8 a.m. after two cups of coffee, please. I work bank hours, everybody.

What are you doing here? So evidence is presented that he gave three detailed statements to the police that were exactly what the fuck happened. He had no lawyer at his arraignment and said that he could not afford one he said his only income was a 336 monthly disability benefit he made 336 a month that's why he had to get that change a month that address had to change so that he could get that that's the thing yep that's exactly what it was it was a federal it wasn't it was a federal that's exactly what it was that's why i was saving that for that absolutely that's why wow he got busted for murder because he couldn't find another way to make 336 dollars a month unbelievable how long you think he could have hung out and round up for without anybody noticing in the 80s pre-internet he could have been there they would have found him in fucking 2010 they would

have found him and then the golden state killer the next that's what i'm saying they'd have that's when they would have absolutely instead he's like you know what 336 we ain't got nothing else god forbid i get a fucking job or anything uh so yeah and uh he had no property or anything like that he owned shit so chuck the chuck black se may's son he is just fucking this is horrible basically and he's a prosecutor so he knows what this shit is like and uh he said this was just he was spending all of his time on the mother's case he's trying to put it together and help the police at any point doing their work for them doing their work and he's an outsider too and he ends up there's a big thing is is he going to try to be on the legal team and people are kind

of uncomfortable about that because it's kind of a concierge son it's they tell cops like if a cop gets shot people who like his partner can't work on the case we've all seen that in movies you can't you're too close to the case you're too close to it damn it can't have you involved rock rock stone we let johnson and johnson the team of johnson we let them take it because they're farther away from this. They don't know. Dammit, Johnson and Johnson don't know how to do shit. Johnson and Johnson couldn't catch that string of bank robberies where it's all on video. How are they going to crack this?

My partner's worth more than that. Sorry. They tried to arrest an eight-year-old for that. Clearly they were way off. The two guys with the banana in the tailpipe outside of Beverlyly hills cops hotel it's not gonna work out they're idiots so johnson and johnson both of them so uh so there was a point apparently where uh he apparently during this before they caught jonas he thought that this was a revenge thing for somebody that he put away. He said, I'm a prosecutor.

I thought about that at the very beginning. He said that fucking X on her cheek. What if that was a what if that was meant for me? What if that was a sign of I put somebody away? So he felt horrible, as you might imagine. Turns out that no, it wasn't that at all. No connection. Nothing.

This guy's just probably made it wanted to make it look like it was something personal uh he says about a quote there for about a month i had to go to bed every night thinking someone had butchered my mother because of something i'd done you don't want you don't want that kind of misery you know what kind of misery that puts me through yeah that's horrible i can't imagine uh and uh yeah that was disproven anyway so he's arrested and arraigned and the prosecutors are they're going to seek the death penalty on this one. He killed Arkansas. He killed a nice old lady, too. So and who's a prosecutor's mother.

He's getting the fucking death penalty or he's going to be tried for that. Now, court starts out and his lawyers immediately have to decide what they're going to do. Their thing is, by the way, the court is when shit gets really crazy. This is when shit really goes off the rails here as a court because we find find out more info on jonas and he is a whack job really oh yeah uh so there that's basically to be crazy or not to be crazy is the choice here that is the question and the name of this episode the name of this episode so uh yeah he says uh his attorneys his attorneys decide against presenting mental evaluations to prove insanity because the evaluations indicated that he didn't lack the capacity to understand the nature and purpose and all that shit. He's not that crazy is what they're saying.

Yeah, he can be fucked up in the head, but he has to literally he has to be disassociated like he said he was at the time. But they don't believe him. at the time, but they don't believe him, obviously. Reports from both current evaluations indicated that he had antisocial personality disorder, but was not psychotic, insane, or, quote, any other legally substantial basis to make a specific defense on his part in either the guilt or the penalty phase. Not crazy enough, Chief. Yeah, yeah.

You're fucked up in the head and all. You got some issues. Yeah, but not messed up enough to get you at anything. Sorry. You can't butcher old ladies crazy. Yeah, you got to be real crazy to butcher old ladies. You have to be like, I don't know who I am. I think I'm Napoleon.

You have to be that crazy just walking around. One of the independent examiner here, because one was a state and one was an independent psychiatric examiner. He indicated to the prosecution that in his opinion if Whitmore were released he would quote probably do it again so not not great and they're thinking too at this point they're going he goes out in a suit comes home with jewelry and money is what else is going on has he ever done this before oh boy because this lady didn't give him any reason to do this she didn't threaten to call the cops she gave him milk and cookies she gave him milk and cookies and he just wanted to steal that so has this happened before they don't give him any reason to do this. She didn't threaten to call the cops. She gave him milk and cookies.

She gave him milk and cookies, and he just wanted to steal that. So has this happened before? They don't know. Now they're thinking, do we have a serial killer on our hands? Boy, oh, boy. Since it's the 80s, they have no way of finding out. They can't run a DNA database. They don't have any of this shit.

Nowadays, they'd be able to find out if his cousin wanted to find out if he was Irish. Like I said, they would know what happened. They'd find out if he jerked off in North Carolina at some point. Yeah, they would. That's his jizz. There it is. His jizz in that bad motel room of mount ida or jesus christ so uh yeah his attorney said they decided against presenting the mental evaluations for that reason that they would reveal that uh they were conducted basically in response to his violent behavior here. Another one that he had another evaluation that was conducted because of his behavior while incarcerated in California for attacking inmates.

There he was accused of, quote, striking this one or stabbing that one in prison. That's a hell of a what? Yeah. Basically, that was a punchy there that's crazy that's in court documents that's nuts that's nuts not they didn't even list them this is like an official document like he's always stabbing and punching people this is crazy he's just crazy that's wild shit you know stab here punch there shrug your shoulders what are you gonna do kick a punch clothesline whatever you want to do uh also that he had quote mutilated himself

on occasion when he felt like it uh the attorneys believe that this uh that evidence of this behavior quote they said this wouldn't actually be to his advantage you would think that wow he's so crazy but they said that it quote wouldn't wash with a western arkansas jury so they said he's gonna sound like a crazy sound bitch that these people are gonna want to put away for a long time and run some currency through him, if you know what I mean. That ain't going to stop nothing. That's not going to help, is what they're saying. Mutilating yourself and all that, that isn't going to help.

They said that this is a lawyer's, this is tactical. This is not a he didn't know to do it or he didn't look into it. This is a tactical decision, which a lawyer has a right to make. And you have a right to challenge and fire and get a new lawyer if you want. Absolutely. That's how it works. So they say that he could have made the decision to present the psychological testimony and it might have had disastrous consequences.

They said any skillful cross-examination would have probably revealed that he did suffer from no mental impairment that would negate him from responsibilities. And he was, though, a maladjusted person with a propensity for violence, which would be worse for him in the eyes of the jury. Not crazy, just an asshole. Yeah. Away with you. A murderous one. A murderous asshole and a violent asshole who might kill your mom if she gives him milk and cookies.

Right. Nobody wants that guy on the street. That's some triggering. That's it. Yeah. No one wants anyone who kills 62-year-old ladies on the street. Sorry. That's just that's the group. They're little kids. Those are the things that we can triggering that's it yeah no one wants anyone who kills 62 year old ladies on the street sorry that's just that's the group they're little kids those are the things that we can't have yeah older ladies little kids no no you're not fucking doing that shit uh also cross

examination also and then old men under that old men under that it depends though what kind of old man they are some of them are dirty old shits but some of them are good you got me like some old poor fucking being the defenseless 75 year old vietnam veteran who's got like a limp and shit yeah protect that son of a bitch leave him alone in terms of fight back again yeah yeah any little crusty old man i yeah it's that's that's hard to it's hard to justify punching that guy in the face isn't it weird okay this is a weird thing and don't please don't take this the wrong way because i these people i want them to pay for their crimes but when you see like when they would find it doesn't happen anymore really but like 10 15 years ago they'd pull some fucking 98 year old nazi out of like argentina who was like an ss

officer who ran some camp and they bring him into court and he looks like he's he looks like kirk douglas he's been dead for 10 years and he looks like he's going to die before this trial is over. He looks like he doesn't know what's going on. He's shitting himself. And for a minute before you, because it's hard to picture that man as a strong person. You're like, oh, Jesus, leave the old guy alone. Then you're like, oh, wait, no, no. Terrible person.

How do we separate in our brains that this fragile thing is also a monster and needs to be dealt with? Your brain fights itself so much, factual and feeling. fragile thing is also a monster yeah and needs to be dealt with like that's the weirdest like your brain fights itself so much factual and feeling it's like baby hitler like yeah you look at baby hitler was adorable that thing yeah it's that joke it's hard to it's hard to want to kill that you'd kill baby hitler yeah i do want to fucking yeah you do that's the thing so uh yeah so they said that uh this is all lawyer shit uh also they said that uh the decision not to present evidence in the penalty phase is well within the practical choices that are not to be second guessed as long as they're based on informed and reasoned judgment

which is what i said they were saying now uh what about aunt kiki testifying because that could help a lot if aunt kiki comes in and said yeah me and his mom used to molest the shit out of him and that would give him flashbacks they said that would help yeah uh but he presented but the problem is that there's evidence that she would testify that whitmore's father used to severely beat him and at times even using a baseball bat uh starting from when he was two and a half years old and continued until he was 16 or 17. So constant beatings, which is not good for anybody. And also that Aunt Kiki's husbands and sons would have testified likewise. Problem was they wouldn't testify.

She wouldn't testify that she molested him, which was the whole base of his fucking. Yeah, that was the whole reason. That's the reason why he snapped and had the flashback. Kiki, you're fucking this up. So in a deposition, because they do depose Aunt Kiki, Aunt Kiki states that Jonas was a normal child until the beatings began. She said that after that, that Whitmore began to be, quote, sneaky evil. Sneaky evil as a child and began doing anything to, quote, be cruel to hurt someone to try to hurt. This is as a child she's describing him. This is in response to vicious beatings from his father there.

Aunt Kiki's husband and sons, also his cousins, also testified at depositions to his violent tendencies. One of the cousins, this is crazy. One of the cousins, Daryl here, stated that he saw Whitmore, quote, rip the head off a kitten one time and laugh about it while he was doing it. And then he pocketed the kitten head. What? He put it in his pocket like a pocket robin. What the shit? I don't know what's going on in the last couple months with people putting fucking dead things in their pockets and thinking that that's something you can store for later like an apple.

That's crazy. That's bleeding now. Oh, yeah. What are you doing? There's tendons and shit. Quote, rip the head off a kitten and laugh about it while he was doing it. My God. Rip the head off of anything.

That's insane. So at trial, these attorneys are really they got their hands full here. They prepared to have 50 or 60 potential witnesses here, 29 of which were actually eventually called at trial. They tried to they tried to exclude his 23 year old robbery conviction because it would constitute an aggravating circumstance later on, which would make him way more eligible for the death penalty. Absolutely. But that's not doesn't happen. But the aggravating circumstances shall be limited to this is the law. The person previously committed another felony, an element of which was in the use of a threat or use or threat of violence to another person or the creation of a substantial risk of death or injury or physical serious injury to another person so

that's our that's robbery is what that is so uh they said that his lawyer said that in preparation for trial he saw he saw whitmore frequently ranging from twice a week to twice a day he had conversations with him lasting anywhere from 30 minutes to two hours so a lot of face time with his lawyer his other lawyer kirk patrick said that he spoke with whitmore about 20 different times and they said that the the humphrey lived a lot closer there so that's why he he was located closer so he got to see him more and the other one had less contact because he was farther away uh the attorney said they had a lot of frustrations dealing with whitmore as you might imagine he's not a just an easygoing guy uh they

said uh a story that whitmore told them involving a hitchhiker who whitmore said was the actual murderer uh that's what they were doing uh so they said look man um there's i didn't do it but i picked up a hitchhiker on the way out of town and he did it okay he said he did it and he got the blood and i gave him a suit and that's what happened because you know i was a hitchhiker got it so he was doing it and they were like well how did you get him beforehand if he knew him afterwards and they were he was like you know how that goes you know okay they were like i guess so they started they investigated it they set a big investigation where they're sending people with adults with families and jobs and mortgage payments out to fucking investigate some horseshit here.

And then he later recanted the story. Never mind. I made that up. And like, thanks, asshole. We knew, but we tried. Thanks for wasting our time. They have to. That's a story sticking to it.

They have to investigate it. He repeatedly ignored his counsel's advice, especially by continuing to make statements to the police. especially by continuing to make statements to the police. As the attorney said, quote, he constantly ignored the attorney's advice not to talk to the police in their report here. Furthermore, it wasn't until three weeks before the trial that he finally gave his lawyers a requested list of potential mitigation witnesses in case he was found guilty. They have to start all that ahead of time because the penalty phase starts right away. So you need to have your mitigation witnesses ready. And so they have to have all that ready in case you're guilty.

And he waited until three weeks before the trial to do this. And these are people from all over the country that they have to investigate, track down, talk to, figure out if the statements mean anything, vet them. Yeah, that's the thing. See if they can get them here, arrange travel. This is not easy to do. And so, yeah travel this is not easy to do and so uh yeah this is this is nuts so the prosecution during the guilt phase here they present evidence that's pretty straightforward the suit they present evidence that 226 dollars had been stolen from uh mrs black here by whitmore and because there was no there was no blood on her

purse or the drawer that contained some of her money. So their theory is he must have stolen the money first and then murdered her to cover it up, which is the exact definition of what you get the death penalty for. Oh, cover a murder to cover up a commission of another crime, which is robbery. So, yeah, that's an aggravator. You're fucked, mister. Yeah. Which makes perfect sense, too. If he's covered in blood, he probably did take it. She probably caught him and then he stabbed the fuck out of her that's probably what happens more than likely that's what happened uh verdict here jury comes back in nine minutes oh

oh wow fill this shit out later y'all paper later we're just gonna we'll just do it uh verbal right now you guys will say it do we have to take a i guess we'll all smoke a cigarette okay we'll be back in about 10 minutes maybe and they were like we were real anxious to come back in and just gonna say guilty he's guilty did we all even have you didn't need us for that did you need to read the charges in nine minutes i got dinner plans guilty guilty on the charge of guilty on the fucking we said guilty whatever you got can we go home now he's still guilty uh yeah so sentencing comes up and this is when he nine minutes not a lot of time that's just that's a record that's a record i've never heard it that fast no that's the paperwork takes

longer there had to be like even simpler paperwork or something to check a box all right good fucking big x they took one vote was like all right cup of coffee first. Sure. All right. Then we'll go back. All right. So his counsel in sentencing presents evidence of extreme mental or emotional disturbance. They say mitigating circumstances here. They're trying to do. They're trying to say the capital murder was committed while the defendant was under extreme mental or emotional disturbance.

He saw the vision of his mother and they said that he's a flashback. Took nine minutes, you guys. You don't get any arguments. I don't care. No. So he then testifies in the penalty phase that his mother and his Aunt Kiki sexually abused him as a child and that certain events would trigger flashbacks of such abuse. He also testified that this S.E. May Black resembled his mother and caused him to have a flashback. He remembers his hand, like we said, moving up and down as he told the victim, don't mom, don't. And he remembers walking to the car with blood all over him. And then after that, he also gets testifies that he has medical problems and he was taking different medications

and what his mental state was that day, or as opposed to a day where he took the prescribed dosage is a day where he wasn't. They go into all that type of shit. He argues that his counsel is ineffective in the here in the penalty phase. Going to say that later. They didn't conduct an investigation of witnesses who could have presented testimony of a separate mitigating circumstance, which was the physical abuse of him as a child by his father. Now, at one of his hearings, he submitted evidence that all of his Aunt Kiki's whole family would testify to the, quote, vicious, violent, and prolonged abuse by Whitmore suffered

from his father. So they said they did not interview the Kiki family in preparation for this because then they would have asked, did you molest him? Oh no, he's a liar. Okay. It's full of shit, basically. It's a problem. So his witness list included, this is amazing, included his wife.

This is his mitigation list here, who was listed twice on the list for some reason. This is what a rocket scientist we're dealing with here. And her address, his father and his address and telephone number, a guy named Alpha Newton, Alpha Newton,

Betty Newton and Judy Newton, who are all at the same address and telephone number. James Scott. He is the deputy sheriff in Modesto, California, who arrested him as a youth and he took a shine to. Thought he was a nice guy. So he said, talk to him for mitigating.

We'll get the sheriff out here. Yeah. Quote, Kiki Throne. That's the aunt. Her husband's name is. This is what she said. Quote, Kiki Throne. Her husband's name is Leonard.

It's Leonard, not Leonard. Leonard Throne, Tracy, California. No number, no address, just the city they live in. You wander around Tracy, you're going to find a dude named Learnard. Learnard! He'll come out of somewhere. Cleo Whitmore or his uncle D.D. Whitmore in Milton Freewater, Oregon. And his ex-wife in Modesto, California.

So they said they didn't have time to they said since we had it's kind of a time cramp yeah we had three weeks he said could you possibly give us better addresses better yet telephone number would be phenomenal if you got that we could just ring him on up and we could talk to him and he goes well tell you what here's a second list uh on this list was again his, his wife, hopefully only listed once this time, his father, Alphabetti and Judy Newton, and one other at the same address and telephone number. Together they are Alphabetti? Alphabetti.

Alphabetti Judy. Alphabetti. Yes, they are. Incredible. That is terrible. Alphabetti Newton. Jesus, that's terrible. Wow.

Now, the same address and telephone number and James Scott. The second list also included his two daughters with an address and a telephone number. Quote, Bo Crow or his mother in New Diana or New Dane, Texas. New Diana or New Dane. I'm not sure which. He has his daughter's numbers, but this Bo Crow or his mother. Either or. No name for her.

Are you Bo Crow's mama? Bo Crow. How much do you hate yourself? Because you are giving us zero help. You're not helping. What the fuck, man? You must want the lethal injection. How much do you want them to kill you?

Jesus. Bo Crow or his mother in New Diana or New Dane. He's not sure. Texas. Okay. them to kill you jesus bow crow or his mother in new diana or new dane he's not sure texas okay francis or guy walker in milton free water oregon the pastor at the methodist church and three other persons that he knows in roundup montana the guy at church will know it so just find the pastor there's only one i'm sure matt pastor of the methodist church and three other guys that he knows who the pastor will know who they are.

So we got that covered. If you find that pastor, you'll get the other three. Yeah, a bunch of people in McLean, Mississippi. Quote, Reverend Vickers of the Christian Life Center in Alabama. Okay. Dale or Daniels Coe of New Diana, Texas, and a former sergeant of the Modesto Police Department there. This is not good. Yeah. The second list does not include

Kiki or her family. It contained the statement, quote, these are the people I want in court for me. And so the lawyer said, I talked to him about all the names on the list, and he repeatedly emphasized Whitmore that his wife should testify, and that's what his wife should definitely testify and he didn't really stress anything

else he just said make sure my fucking wife's here and his wife however been identified by the state as a potential prosecution witness because she would testify that whitmore came home didn't have his clothes dyed his hair shaved his fucking beard so they gathered uh you know and then drove to montana so they're like, her shit's going to be worse. We can't put her up there to say worse things about you. And then she's, you know, oh, my God. So they said also she was going to testify that, quote, this procedure had occurred on other occasions, which he put a suit on and go out and rob people. So then they're going to say, this is a serial thing.

Right. He's a serial, at least robber and now a killer and possibly a serial killer right get this they're gonna want him off the street so they're like no uh you know he's leave town and all that type of shit so they spoke to his wife on the day of the trial and finally private discussions between whitmore and his wife he told the attorneys that he did not want them to call her as a witness against her will because these things would happen so they sent a letter to whitmore's father who did not receive they didn't get a response back he didn't even write that ignored so next they arranged to have whitmore they said call your father from jail yeah

call your dad get him on the horn first call was collect he said nope not accepting the charges fuck him click so on the next they said okay we'll call him we'll call him so it's not collect all right we'll get the you know whatever so on the next call his father, okay, we'll call him. We'll call him. So it's not collect. All right. We'll get the, you know, whatever. So on the next call, his father told him that he's quote, not willing to help and hung up on him. So fuck off. Yeah. Will you come to court and say what a terrible father you are?

And he used to beat me, please. Nope. Sorry. So yeah, attorneys have been told by another source that Whitmore's father was extremely angry, angry with Whitmore for the accusations of sexual abuse against his mother he said you said your mother molested you you asshole and she didn't that's fucked up I'm a little pissed at you for that don't blame him so yeah the attorneys also wrote to Alpha Newton but the letter was returned indicating quote no such address uh so he had that address wrong and uh they said they

unsuccessfully tried to get a hold of other people james scott all sorts of other people there uh they said that the the police officer was just a guy who arrested him when he was a juvenile and he'd been nice to him so that's why i thought he would call him across the country from modesto it does he was nice to me he was nice to me when I was a kid. Well, he might not be now. Now he finds out that you fucking murdered a woman. See, I knew you were going to be a dickhead. I could tell when I arrested you the first time.

So, yeah, he said he called other people, wasn't able to get anybody on the phone. They didn't contact any of the people in Roundup because they said you barely knew those people. That's not a character witness. Somebody who knew you for two weeks while you were lying to them about who you are and where you were why you were not gonna work dude uh so they said yeah they the uh other people they contacted on the list said they hadn't seen him in years only met him briefly had no substantial knowledge of anything about him they barely knew him i worked with him for two weeks i don't know why you're calling me shit like they just anybody he knew he thought mitigating witness list was just write down people you've met and he was like all right and then they

just wrote him down this yeah uh so uh not contacted aunt kiki and her husband and they said that was because they didn't want to be a part of yeah obviously here and they said also they would have been shocked the attorney said it would have been pretty shocking if aunt kiki would travel all the way from california to arkansas to be accused of sexual abuse in open court that's an odd thing that was for someone to voluntarily do you know what i mean love to you know what i'm gonna pass on this one sounds fun but no uh so yeah so penalty phase here they uh they basically said that the strategy is that he committed the murder because of his emotional state. Like we said, sexual abuse was uncontradicted because no one said it didn't happen to him. They present evidence. The state does of 23 year old conviction for attempted robbery.

His attorneys attempt to minimize it by eliciting. This is amazing. By eliciting testimony. These next two are great. Eliciting. This is amazing. By eliciting testimony. These next two are great. Eliciting. This is how he's trying to mitigate shit. Okay. Attempted robbery thing.

This is, this makes sense. He's saying that he was 18 years old, just signed up for the army and was out drinking with a friend as like a send off and they did something stupid. That's, that was the attempted robbery. So that's how they try to play it off. It was a kid being stupid before he went into the army. You know, I mean, that's how they try to play it off it was a kid being stupid before he went into the army you know i mean that's forgivable but then he stated that in a cab ride he and his friend did not pay the fare and uh this is what they're questioning now they said is it true that during a cab ride you and your friend did not pay a care and that you pay it pay the fare and that

you hit the driver over the head with a 16 ounce crown royal or not crown royal crown rc cola rc cola bottle and then ran did you do that and he answered quote no sir it was not a royal crown bottle it was a coca-cola bottle um not the best time to be a wise ass no at all and uh that in the 80, those shits were made of glass. Oh, yeah. That's a heavy bottle. Those are thick, too. The attorney, his attorney said that, quote, it was evident at that point that Whitmore

had lost favor with the jury. Yeah. I think probably before that, but that didn't help at all because now he's a wise ass. Right. He says, the attorney said that, quote, you could hear the eyes just drop in the jury box because of the situation that was involved and his apparent disdain for all of it it was a smart mouth it was a smart mouth remark that really cost him yeah stupid don't do that be fucking you've been found guilty of murdering a

nice lady be real could have a lot of contrition about that shit so it was the office he would have delivered that line and then looked right at the camera. Yeah. Get the joke? Got that? So the jury here, they have a jury form that says, was the murder committed while Whitmore was under extreme emotional mental disturbance? That the murder was committed while under unusual pressures or influences? These are all the mitigating circumstances that are on there. In the penalty phase here, jury found that it was for purpose of avoiding or preventing an arrest and escaping from custody. So the aggravating circumstances outweighed beyond a reasonable doubt any mitigating circumstances.

You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty. Oh, boy. For Mr. Whitmore. It's over. It is over. That bottle comment might have cost him big time it might cost him his life that might have been the one where they went he's kind of a

dick too you know what i'm saying i kind of don't like him he's a wise ass fuck that guy it's a great joke though it's pretty good it's not bad so quickly here uh this one thing in 1989 he appeals based on what's it's a it's a was a rule called Rule 37. And it's a rule that it's it's about appeals in death penalty cases and these long sentences. And it basically says that a certain amount of appeals have to happen. And there are tons of people who are trying to get rid of it on the political end, saying we need to fast track these people to the electric chair. So we all know what a bad fucking idea that is. Yeah.

When they did that, now we go, oh, shit, we killed a bunch of people. Fuck. Wait a minute. They're already dead? Yeah. Set that one man free. The murderer is now in prison. He's fine.

Give his corpse to his family. Already killed that one. Well, shit. Oh, shit. Sorry about that. Hmm. Hmm. Can we say he fell down? Should we set that man free then because somebody's already paid well no i don't think so no we'll get him too so yeah really so this is an appeal for himself and another inmate uh-huh this is a thing he

appeals for not only himself but ronald gene simmons uh yeah ronald gene simmons who is a convicted murderer convicted a lot of people know who he is he murdered 16 people jesus uh most of them his family and was a sentence to death arkansas state law did not require appellate review of capital sentences and so simmons chose to uh not to contest the conviction or the sentence and request a speedy execution right now right now just kill me now what he did is before christmas 87 he decided to kill his whole family yeah so on december 22nd he killed his wife and his son by shooting them with a 22 then killed his three-year-old granddaughter by strangling her he then dumped the bodies in a cesspit he had forced his children to dig for this purpose he then waited for his other children

to return home and once they returned home he told them that he had presents for them but wanted to give them one at a time so he then killed them one at a time while they thought they were getting presents he killed his 17 year old daughter strangled her and held her under the water of a rain barrel what held her drowned her in a rain barrel and three other children eddie marianne and becky were all killed the same way wow uh then he went out december 26 to get the remaining members of his family who uh were there for christmas visit uh he killed his son billy and his wife were both shot he then strangled and drowned their 20 month old son what a dick he then shot and killed his oldest daughter uh who by the way had been

sexually abused by him and her husband and then he strangled his child then strangled another child and then a seven-year-old and finally his 20 month 21 month year old 21 month old grandson he also strangled laid the whole body in neat rows uh all in in the the uh the living room of his house they were covered with coats except for uh one of the bodies which was covered with a tablecloth and then he wrapped up the others in plastic sheeting and spent the rest of the evening drinking beer and watching tv wow just like somehow still the only the second worst gene simmons second worst second biggest monster oh by the way he wasn't done. What? He drove the next day.

Two days later, walked into a law office, killed the receptionist, who was a young woman just working as a secretary receptionist. He apparently was previously infatuated with this woman, but she had rejected him. He next went to an oil company office where he shot dead another man, the owner, and then another guy there, and then drove to a convenience store that he previously worked and shot and wounded two more people. So he said, everyone that's ever wronged me, I'm killing everybody. Tonight. Focused.

Wow. Focused. He didn't fire willy-nilly. He's like, I want to kill him and him. But, I mean, there's children, all sorts of kids. Yeah. So he wants to be killed uh but this case affects basically anyone who's on death row doesn't want this to happen because they want

a challenge that you can even have a speedy execution so so they gotta stop that guy so whitmore files on his behalf to do this the court rules though that you cannot file on someone else's behalf for this they have to want it themselves another a catholic priest who was apparently friends with simmons quote unquote also tried to file uh on his behalf and it wasn't taken so uh this this this goes all the way to the supreme court uh yeah thurgood marshall and uh justice b Brennan both dissented in this. So it was a 7-2 thing all the way to the Supreme Court to find this. To allow it? 7-2?

To allow the execution 7-2. Ronald Gene Simmons was executed on June 25, 1990 for his last meal, Jimmy. He had an 8-ounce filet mignon. Well done. So might as well have just had a shoe. Why did you eat that? Just a shoe. Just eat a sirloin, you dick.

Just have a shoe. Eat some ground chuck. What's the point. Just eat a sirloin, you dick. Just have a shoe. Eat some ground chuck. What's the point? Yeah, big pile of hamburger. Have a fucking shank steak. Two medium onions. What? He ate two medium, two tomatoes, raw and sliced.

The tomatoes are raw and sliced and the onions are raw and sliced. Two medium onions and two tomatoes, all raw and sliced. Six bread rolls, six slices of cheese of cheese one banana and two cans of seven up so he made steak sandwiches out of that pretty much he fucking sucks he made shitty steak sandwiches what a dick he's a you ruined a chunk of meat you fucking loser fucking asshole never mind the rest of it forget what you did to a family you fucking ruined you are now the worst gene simmons you're a dick yeah you've done it so he appeals in 93 for himself uh again he had been appealing before that but this is his big final appeal here he

argues that the death penalty is unconstitutional ineffective assistance of counsel he argues that there was a reversible error when the court admitted into evidence statements that were made by him in the car the the Miranda, all that shit. He also asserted he was mentally incompetent and therefore shouldn't be executed. The court says, no, you're pretty sane. The death penalty is fine. We seem to like it here in Arkansas anyway. And yeah, an ineffective assistance of counsel.

They said, what the fuck more do you want us to do? They said, what did you want them to do? They literally did everything that attorneys can do. You didn't fucking help at all. They said the court here has to answer this. They must, quote, determine whether counsel's performance in evaluating the mitigating evidence available to them and in deciding not to pursue further mitigating evidence undermines our confidence in the adversarial process of this case. In other words, did he do it for his client's best interest? And that's what they said. It was a matter of strategy.

The performance was, they said that they didn't even find it deficient. Like he didn't even do a bad job, never mind a like completely constitutionally irresponsible job. He was actually, they tried hard. So yeah, it turns out to be that the mental evaluations weren't helpful. None of the shit that he says would have got him off and his lawyers didn't do would have been helpful to him. They said your lawyers did you a favor. They're trying to tell him not only were they not ineffective, they were actually the best thing for you.

You're just an idiot. You could have not, you know, said the Coca-Cola remark and all that kind of shit. and all that kind of shit. Yeah, they said no evidence that the defendant gave counsel information which would have led him to reasonably conclude that further investigation was necessary of the Kiki thing. He consistently accused Aunt Kiki

of sexually abusing him as a child and they had reason to believe that interviewing her would not result in mitigating information, therefore would not be a fruitful use of their time and resources. Fucking fair. He emphasizes here the abuse of his father

would have been relevant in proving that but they said that this evidence might have been presented they said that uh that when he uh that they had talked to him before that he hadn't mentioned it so they said that uh the undisputed relevancy of this information of his neglectful, sometimes violent family background doesn't isn't going to be enough mitigating to overcome what he did. Basically, the the cross examination of Aunt Kiki would have been disastrous for him, as we talked about. And he wanted he want he wanted to testify at his about sexual abuse. And he did. They said he stuck to his story throughout everything, from the police all the way through the penalty phase. And so all they could have got Aunt Kiki for was basically to deny it, unless she was like,

yep, me and him, me and his mom, boy, we did the worst things. We really ran through it. I mean, hours at a time. I mean, it was traumatic. Boy, I would have killed people if I was him. I'll put it that way. Anybody look like me, I'd kill them right now if I was him. Like, that's not the way this shit works uh so may 11th 1994 by the way they find all of

that to be they find his effect his counsel was very effective um basically you're a dickhead who killed somebody and uh you live in arkansas which now they're gonna execute you may 11th 1994 is execution day a last minute stay is denied here for him. This is now they're going to execute two people on the same day. Arkansas does group executions. Did you know that? Why? What?

That's disturbing as fuck. And multiples at a time in the same day makes the state serial killers. Yeah, it makes them like. And they actually at one point, there's people obviously protesting this. And some asshole from the state actually said, this is amazing, actually said, they're mad at us for being efficient. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Killing efficiently is what the Nazis did. Government shouldn't kill efficiently unless it's people in another country that we've all decided we don't like.

That's the only time that they should kill efficiently. This shit should be inefficient as fuck. It prisoners let's take some time let's take a minute over maybe one a day at best at best not not in a row jesus now this 1976 the federal and you know death penalty was reinstated in the united states this is the first double execution since then in 1994 so they've never done it before. And Arkansas is like, well, fuck it. We'll do it. They take him in. Jonas Whitmore, by the way, looks like he had the standard prison meal.

Really? He did not ask for anything special. I'm sorry. That's why I gave you Ronald Gene Simmons meal. I know you get excited. Just whatever was on the meal. Just whatever. He just took it.

He didn't care. They asked him, would you like a last statement? And he said, nope. And that was that. 8.08 p.m. Lethal injection. He's took it. He didn't care. They asked him, would you like a last statement? And he said, nope. And that was that. 8.08 p.m. Lethal injection. He's pronounced dead. Really?

And then about an hour later, Edward Charles Pickens dies from a lethal injection as well. Arkansas later on in 1997, they become the only state to conduct a triple execution. A triple. What the shit is going on? Good lord. Too many. No. They did that twice.

What? They did it in 94. They've had a three-peat twice? They've had more three-peats than Michael Jordan. Absolutely. More than that. They had May 11th, they executed a double. Yeah.

And then August 3rd, 94, they pulled off a triple. And then January 8th, 94, three off a triple and then january 8th 94 three one more time let's run that three pete again because that was a wow yeah no state has carried out more than one up one double execution in the same week thankfully jesus some shock uh the shortest time span between multiple executions was the uh may to august yeah time there that's 84 days in between yeah fucking multiple executions which is disturbing now so he is dead jonas is dead essie may is dead you know who's still alive all the way until december 3rd 2016 who william black right essie may's husband what he is 98

years old when he dies what the shit is happening that's what i mean he lived to be 98 this fucking that's that's why i was saying that i don't to be 98 this fucking year. Is it the hot springs? I don't know what it is. It must be the courts or the hot springs. He dies at age 98. Wow. After Essie's death in 1988,

he remarried. Yeah. He remarried a Leota Faye Pettit. That's nice. Leota Faye Pettit talent on July 3rd, 1988 in Arkansas. And poor Essie May is buried in the Stanley Standbridge Cemetery in Mount Ida, Arkansas. By the way, when you look for S.E. May Black, if you search for S.E. May Black a lot,

what comes up way more than S.E. May Black is S.E. May Washington, who is Strom Thurmond's illegitimate black daughter. Get out of here! Yes, S.E. May Washington, who is Strom Thurmond's illegitimate black daughter. Get out of here. Yes. S.E. May Washington died a few years ago. She was the late senator, was the most racist senator we've had in at least 100 years. For a while there, he was an outright segregationist, and he kept getting reelected until he died in the fucking early 2000s. It wasn't like he died in the 40s.

We're talking until he died in the early 2000s people in the south kept electing this asshole my aunt lived next door to him and fucking hated him awful man hugest racist ever and he also had a touch of the jungle fever yeah and he liked the black ladies and we have proof of that by sma washington who came out and made him look like a total dickhead to everybody and then died. By the way, also, another little weird mistake in identity thing here is if you search, because I was trying to find his last meal. So I'm searching everything. And if you search 1994 Arkansas murder death penalty last meal and his name is Jonas Whitmore. Jonas, it comes up 1994 Arkansas murders death penalty last meal jonas brothers that's what

google fills it in as if the jonas brothers were executed in arkansas in 1994 for fucking murder that's what that's what thanks google i do like nice fill in i do like google's wishful thinking yeah i mean that'd be great i'm all for it don't get me wrong i'm for it i'm not saying i'm against it but that is mount ida arkansas and that is a crazy ass case so i mean this was a wild one and i'll tell you something tip next week 10 times crazier than this this is nothing compared to next week next week's going to be off the charts it's going to be wild so uh if you like this show let us know about it you know you can do that go to apple podcast the purple icon and give us a review those we don't know why, but they really, really help drive you up the charts. We're not positive why that is because it's not us that does it.

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So with that said, Jimmy, I need it. I need it bad. I need it to tear it out of me like a suit label, Jimmy. Hit me with it now. This week's executive producers are Siobhan Brogan, Yvette Moore, Chris Borland. Yes. Lisa Cooper, Ellie Kamek. She's the one in Texas.

She upped her donation quite a bit. Thank you, Ellie. Jesus, thank you so much. Holly McKee and Susan Deguia. Yeah. And then other producers this week are Lindsay Trogdon, who was donated in her name. So thank you, guys. Appreciate that.

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Never mind. We appreciate all the Andersons here. Anjanette. Anjanette. Mazluski. Anjanette. Anjanette. Anjanette.

That's a tough name when they give you the same name twice anjanette anjanette and then a long last name too shelby graham jill osborne isla vine vein venal uh tina prussey jeremy jeremy binder uh ashlyn riggits jillianne osborne francis francis hitsky She's in Europe. Oh, thank you. And she is fantastic. She went to CrimeCon. She's all into this crime stuff. Damn, thank you.

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Emily Thibault. See, it's E-M-I-L-E-E. That's why it fucked me. Emily. That's Emily, though. Thibault. That's an Emily. Destiny Turner.

Sierra Plotz. Celinda Calling. Jay Bertio. Thomas Smith. Carrie. No, Carly. Carly Hedlund. Rebecca Kuhn. That Lambert and Holly Davidson, Olivia

Sacamondi, Gary Howard, Dwayne Badiata, Sarah McCullough, Cindy Biddle, Shandell Whitney. Thank you, Shandell. She has a daughter that's in the service. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Thank you so much. Appreciate that. I remember that story. Thank you.

Cleo McAllister, Rachel Kaskaden. Both ways. She donated. Thank you. Thank you. Paul Hopkins. Home stretch. Here we go.

Veronica Kelly, Timothy Hart, Shadia Sheridan, Dominique Wells, Tyler Sheets, Lisa Jensen, Abdul Jan, Andrew Crenshaw, Jordan Bennett again. Thank you. Thanks, Jordan. Ashley Veo. See you in more and more shows, Jordan. We'll see you there.

Jude Kendall, Stephen Rood, who came out to Omaha. Oh, yeah. That's nice to meet you. It's good to see you, Stephen. Samantha Diffendaffer, Justin Miller, Maribel, again, Justin, Maribel Leal, David Albury, Janine Walker, Walter, Colorado Dragonfly. I don't think that's a first name. Probably not. But it's something. It's something out there. Find it.

Emily Warwick, Emily Tincher, Laura LaFernier, I think, Lonnie Hall, Kelly Wilson, Jenna Strong, and happy birthday to Amber from Jenna. Cool. Happy birthday, Amber. There you go. Liz Vasquez, thanks for coming out, Liz.

It was good to see you. Thank you. Aaron Davis, Brittany Hart, Lauren Demerath, Louise Rayfield, Rysaev Sergei, Anthony Cannella, Jesse Hartman, and all of our Patreon supporters. You guys are the fucking best. Thank you, everybody, from the bottom of our hearts. Honestly, man, you guys keep us going, and you've just provided us with everything. We can't thank you everybody from the bottom of our hearts honestly man you guys keep us going and you've yeah you've just provided us with everything we can't thank you enough and once again thank you

thank you to everybody who came out over the weekend to see us last week in omaha minneapolis man so much fun to meet you guys it's a blast to meet you guys and speaking of meeting if it's a small venue if we're in a little comedy club and there's 300 seats we'll we'll just say there's vip people obviously they get to sit up front they do all that they buy spend a few extra bucks they're going to get to come first but then after that we're going to meet everybody we possibly can whoever wants to stick around to hang out we're going to meet them and uh we're happy to do that we apologize places like minneapolis we don't want to just come in and do a 300 seat show because there's a thousand people there that bought tickets that obviously want to see us

in that area so we want everybody to be able to come but we can't meet a thousand people we'd love to but we go to these places it's the theater

it's all union people they're not going to stay until two in the morning so we can meet people they're not making any money so we're like we're not going to just pay people

so you can shake hands and so that's what ends up happening so it's not us we don't say well fuck these people it's literally business wise we're not allowed to do it. It sucks.

So we try our best, though. And we're going to try to do that. If it's a small venue, we'll do our best. If we don't have to leave on a flight at 6 in the morning to make it to the next city, we'll stay as late as we can. We're doing our best here. If they kick us out, then we'll end up going to a bar or something. I'll do my best to hang out as much as I can.

But the distance that we've got to go to the next show is crazy it's hard sometimes we just got to go thank you though and we're trying our best to meet everybody and uh thank you for everything you do there what if people wanted to thank you jimmy how could they do that you can find me at whisman sucks w-h-i-s-m-a-n sucks on twitter instagram and snapchat i appreciate you guys uh sending everything that you send uh and and i'm trying my best to get back to all of them. Again, it's gotten so many, so much responses that it's just tough to get back to everything. But I'm doing my best.

So where can they find you? You can find me at JimmyPIsFunny, or you can just copy and paste my last name from the show description and find me that way. I got back on, I hadn't been on Facebook in about a year and a half. And I got back on there to say thank you to everybody. And so I checked and I accepted all the friend requests that I had backlogged for a year and a half from you guys.

So I have a few spots left on Facebook before I'm full. So if you want to hit me up on there, I'll fill out my last few people on Facebook. And then we'll stick to the other platforms. But do that. Keep listening to the show. Like I said, next week's going to be insane. We're excited for it, as always. We'll see you, like we said, also San

Diego and LA in a month. With that said, everybody, it's good stuff here. I'm still blown away by the kitten. I'm sorry. I wanted to say goodbye, but I don't know. I'm sorry. That was just too much. There's too much going by the kitten. I'm sorry. I wanted to say goodbye, but I don't know. I'm sorry. Ripping a kitten's head off and jamming his pocket?

That was just too much. There's too much going on with that to put that right away. I had to put it in my pocket, no pun intended, way too quickly. I guess,

until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Whatever struggles you are facing, from depression and anxiety to trauma and grief, BetterHelp can connect you with a professional counselor in a safe and private online environment. It's so convenient you can schedule your secure or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist, and anything you share is completely confidential. Best of all, it's a truly affordable option. Our listeners even get 10% off your first month with the discount code SMALLTOWNMURDER. So why not get started? Simply go to betterhelp.com slash smalltownmurder and fill out a questionnaire to get matched with a counselor you'll love today.