Small Town Murder - #136 - Unearthing Some Secrets in Eunice, New Mexico

Episode Date: September 12, 2019

This week, in Eunice, New Mexico, when a woman disappears, seemingly into thin air, everyone looks at her ex husband, but it's not quite so simple. Maybe she took off with a trucker, maybe she just needed a break, maybe she's dead, and was killed in a horrific way. In the end, a brutal murder only has one answer to the question of who did it. But the question that lingers is why?Along the way, we find out grown men dominating a children's event, a few more uses for ether, and if it's possible to callously murder & not even intend to!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday! Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com & use our email: [e-mail] Go to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports! Follow us on... twitter.com/@murdersmall facebook.com/smalltownpod instagram.com/smalltownmurder Also, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Eunice, New Mexico, when a woman goes missing, everyone looks at her ex-husband, but where could she be?

Mexico? Off with a mysterious trucker? Or dead? back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us again on another crazy wild edition of Small Town Murder. I hope you guys enjoyed last week, our trek to Virginia and the nuttiness that goes on there. Wow.

Watch out. If you're a mother-in-law, lock your doors. Let's just say that. You never know. Multiple people just trying to kill you all at once. You never know who's coming through the door. Anybody. Sticking around in that shit state for a bonus episode of political what the fuck.

Yeah, that was crazy. Jesus, man. What a crazy week. We had an ass full of Virginia. We did, we did. Yeah, if you don't know, Patreon, we do bonus episodes. It's, I think, $5 and above. It's paid on Patreon.

We'll put out bonus episodes. One of them was Virginia last week. It was a crazy weird case there. And speaking of that, let's get the business stuff over with. Thank you guys for your reviews this week. Like we say all the time, those Apple podcast reviews,

we don't know why they drive you up the charts. I don't know what difference that would make to Apple podcasts, but apparently it makes a big difference. So thank you guys for doing that. And if you haven't yet, please give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. There is no fixing us with words. We're're broken everybody that you can't fix us with words

so just say you're following instructions they told me to do this it really doesn't matter what you say it's just for business purposes speaking of that go to shut up and give me murder.com where we promise you you can get everything small town murder oriented all the all the merchandise there new stuff up all the time. These cool travel overnight bags they have now are really cool. Check all of that out there. Also, get all your crime and sports merchandise. If you're not listening to crime and sports, I don't know what you're thinking because you're missing out.

If you're thinking, well, I don't like sports, good. Then you're going to like this even more because we're going to make fun of athletes a lot. That's the thing. It's not about sports.'s about uh crime and screwing up your life that's what it's about not and us mocking a human being who's done both of those things who we probably looked up to that's the thing as though it's it's a lot of fun check that out you don't have to know who the athlete is none of that matters it's just here's an idiot yeah who blew it all yeah it's good stuff there's check that out get your tickets to Small Town Murder live shows tomorrow night if you're listening the day this comes out. Tomorrow night we're in San Diego.

That is sold out. Sorry about that. But we have been told there's a few tickets left in L.A. Not a lot. Very few tickets left in L.A. So you can get those for Saturday night and come see us in L.A. Hop in my Jeep. I'll drive you out.

Let's do it. And also, if you're on the East Coast, end of the month, we are in Raleigh, Charlotte, and Atlanta over a weekend, which is going to be just a hell weekend of travel. But that's okay because we are excited to come there. Get your tickets to that. I know Raleigh is close to sold out, but the rest of them, there's a few tickets left. So get in there. Come see us. Good stuff.

We're excited for that. never mind all of that stuff we got to get to the show in a second but quickly also uh patreon if you want to be a hero of ours yeah an absolute hero and you get a bonus episode sometimes here once in a while but that's not the important part the important part is if you want to support the show and uh you know just if you like what we do yeah and you want to tell us about it this is a good way to do it here patreon.com slash crime in sports or you head over to paypal make a donation there using our email address which is crime in sports at gmail.com and you can get to both of those links very easily from where jimmy all of their uh shut up and give me murder.com that's right boy did i stutter you you lost that you're like like, am I? Oh, no. Am I on? Am I called? Oh, no.

They called on me. He had fourth grade flashbacks. The chalkboard. What? I can't. I have a boner. So, yeah. Jimmy just said.

Don't make me stand up. Don't make me stand up. Well, I hurt my leg yesterday. My back hurts a little. I hurt myself. I got a little hunched. Quickly, the disclaimer. This is a comedy show. That hurts a little. I hurt myself. I got a little hunched. Quickly, the disclaimer. This is a comedy show.

This is a comedy podcast. All the facts are real. Story's real. Nothing is made up. That we promise you. Nothing is embellished for comedic purposes. But we are comedians, so we're going to make jokes at the expense of small towns. Everybody's from a small town.

They're all worthy of being made fun of. Sure. Absolutely. That sort of thing. A police force that lets a murderer go free or a murderer. We might make fun of him. That sort of thing. But what we don't do, we go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims

families because we're assholes. But we're not scumbags. That's right. That's why this thing works. Basically, there. If you think true crime and comedy should never go together, though, just ever, then this probably isn't for you. There's plenty of good shows out there that are very dry and they'll tell you an excruciating horrible detail in a very dry manner we try to make it a little more fun around the horrible

details basically is how we do it if that sounds good to you then man i think it's time stand up on your desk from your cubicle if you're in a conservative office going here in the bathroom shout out to the owner do it back hunch your back just shout out shut up and give me murder let's go on a trip jimmy wonderful let's do this what do you say here last week we were in virginia we were crisscrossing the country back and forth or colorado virginia we're going back and forth let's head out west again okay going to new me New Mexico. Yuck. Yuck. Jimmy's least favorite state there. Well, I don't know, because we did go to Omaha, so you never know. I could replace it.

But New Mexico. Let's wait until we get booked in Albuquerque. Yeah, let's see. We'll see how much you hate Omaha. Excuse me. We'd have to agree to be booked in Albuquerque, which, nope, drive to Phoenix. Sorry. I'd rather have a shit steak than a hatch chili.

You live in Albuquerque. You can drive to Phoenix. You should be used to having to go. Sorry. I don't have a shit steak than a hatch chili. You live in Albuquerque. You can drive to Phoenix. You should be used to having to go other places. It's Albuquerque, so sorry. Sorry about that, Albuquerque. It's a brutal fucking state, man. If you know that you're only, you're like, you know, that place between Flagstaff and Amarillo, that's not great. Not great to be known as that.

So this here, though, this is eunice new mexico e-u-n-i-c-e eunice new mexico the woman's name like a woman's name like an older lady's name a very elderly woman like a woman born pre-world war ii at least pre-depression really that's somebody's dead grandmother that's my dead great-grandmother eunice or a tortured 36 year old because there was a girl that was two years younger than me in my high school named after her grandma probably she's like thanks aunt Eunice perfect so uh this one though is not near Albuquerque it's far southeastern New Mexico way down in the corner down there uh that's why I've seen it right because we had to drive near it when we went to texas it's near the texas panhandle it's up north of there basically yeah as you as you go that way uh it's no it's actually north of texas it's north

north north texas new mexico got it very weird uh five hours and 20 minutes to albuquerque so way away from there um three hours and 45 minutes to el paso okay it's actually closer to el paso but that's also west it's the other way east of el paso this place oh wow it's over i got it yeah yeah it's way east over there it's strange here and eight hours to flora vista which is uh episode 82 our last wow our last new mexico episode which is in the complete northwest corner of the state so total opposite catty corner it's it takes eight hours to get all the way across new mexico from corner to corner apparently fuck that's torture that is rough eight hours of a steady grade this just goes up steadily all the time brutal i've taken the going north of new mexico ride no good for a sake or the stereotype is that native Native Americans are drunks, and Native Americans in New Mexico are not doing anything for that stereotype because all of their guardrails in that state are fucked.

Well, I don't know if that's... Why is it the Native Americans' fault? I'm just saying... Are they the only ones putting guardrails up? I don't think I've ever seen that. Or running into them? Drunks, you know what I mean? I don't know how many sober people...

Hold on a second. Ladies and gentlemen, my partner Andrew Jackson here. up i don't think i'm running into them drunks you know what i mean i don't know how many hold on ladies and gentlemen my partner andrew jackson here what the hell are you talking about hold on you got to explain yourself out of this one you just said you said it's a stereotype that indians are drunks and it must be true because there's a lot of them there and the guardrails are messed up that's what i heard and i think that's probably what everyone else is basically what i was saying and i know that's not what you meant so what i mean i know that's not what you mean at all but i know that's how it came out and i know that's how a bunch of people heard it and they went oh god no they just the guardrails are all demolished and not state and it just driving on that freeway but why

where do the native americans come into this there's a lot in new mexico they're not the madrid it's not like it's 90 they must be them because they're 90 i'm just saying when you drive through the state you go jesus all these guardrails are fucked and then and then i i can jump to that conclusion because i'm an asshole well it's in it's in leah county or lee county lea yeah i don't know county uh 88231 is the zip code area code 575 2.9 square miles uh motto you can smell that texas hell yeah that's how that's sort of attracting people here smell it history of this town we'll go through it because there really isn't much of a history here. In 1908, a guy named J.N. Carson came down here to set up a homestead, which later became this town, which he named for his eldest daughter, who, like we said, this is a woman born in 1895 is named Eunice.

That's exactly perfect. 95 is named Eunice. That's exactly perfect. In the spring of 1909, though, we built a store and a post office there. And he was like, anybody? We got a post. I'm the only one mailing shit out. We're in now.

He goes every day to see if there's mail for him because there's nobody else there. Just sort it. I'm sorting the mail. One letter. Sorted. Sorted. Bring it home with me. Delivered.

Yeah. I do everything. I sort. I deliver. Jesus Christesus christ god damn it the lazy bastards someone needs to help me out with all this shit so uh then people started coming once there's a store in a post office it seems like oh you could sort of live there you could mail a letter you could buy something that's that's all necessary here so people started coming and they uh they decided to build a one-room schoolhouse and its first year it had 23 kids yeah so that's not bad that's a big house yeah big house 23 kids to a classroom that's much better than what i came up in feel pretty close still the new york 35 kids

to a classroom theory well not enough chairs there's radiators to sit on on the sides that's how i that's how my high school years were on Sit on the cubbies. Oh, we sat on radiators there. Not enough chairs, fuckers. Sit on the radiators. That's how it worked. So I wonder why we... At least you got a view. Of what?

I mean, on the radiator, isn't there usually a window right there? Oh, we had windows. Yeah, but that was usually... Oh, what? Either it was hot. That's the other point. Either it was hot and you had to sit by the window where it's hot or else it was cold and these windows were built in 1945 and had no insulation, so you had to sit on a radiator while freezing

cold air. Blasted in your back. That's if the heat worked. Yeah. I had half the classrooms, the heat didn't work. You have to know your schedule to know when to bring your jacket to class. What? Yeah, my school sucked.

It's a shithole. The fuck is that? That's New York schools, buddy. Yay. Know your schedule. Know when you need your parka, because if it's 48 degrees in math class, it's difficult to concentrate. Let me tell you something.

I've seen my breath in math class before. No, you have not. I swear to God, I saw my breath in math class one day when the heat had been there for like a week. Isn't that abuse? I don't know. I guess that's what they said probably, too. Is this don't know whatever they seem fine they seem sturdy they showed up they're a sturdy lot look at them they're all teenagers it's gonna be free who cares yeah

they're not paying anything what do they want look at these little freeloaders want heat now tell out of here with that learn your your schedule, partner. Yeah, learn your schedule. Yeah, your parents paid eight grand in property taxes last year for a frigging two-bedroom house, but still. So anyway, the schoolhouse was also a Sunday school, and the church services were held there. One-stop community center is how they did it here. There was no paved roads, which was rough, but people still came.

And there was an oil field that came there. This is oil country, by the way. It's in western. Yeah, it goes right along with West Texas. This is oil country. Most of these people are working either in the oil industry or in an oil adjacent industry. It's not, you know, that's all that really happens here. They're digging it or refining it.

Or, yeah, or working in an office that talks about selling it or selling it or you know one of those things here so the first well that was there the first one that was drilled was 1926 the first well that was producing was in 1928 and then a whole bunch of wells were started going around there lots of oil field workers started coming in and uh the town website is full of shit by the way yeah full riddled with lies about their history just riddled with them i did the research i looked on the town website and i got facts and i did other research i'm like everybody contradicts the town website you're full of shit they say that you in the mid-1930s eunice's uh population shot up to 5,500, which horseshit.

Everywhere else at this point in time, I think they had, let's find out, 1930, they had 1,200 people. Wow. 5,500, they're saying, they're claiming. Four times more? Full of shit is what this town website, Eunice, full of shit. And smell that Texas. Both of them here.

So they're liars. They're also behind the times, and we'll see that in a second, too. The website is about 15 years out of date. Really? Yeah, it is, which is fun. We'll talk about. In 1937, their main street here had, this is their website, claiming 27 cafes. 27.

27. Cafes, yeah. But it's full of shit, I think, so I'm not even going to say that. But yeah, in the early 30s is when people started coming. The 1930 U.S. Census, which I would believe more than the town website, shows 313 people.

With 27 cafes. And then an influx of about another 1,000 came in to work the oil fields. Not another 5,000. Do you know how many oil fields it took to spring up for 5,000 people? 5,000 people is a lot. That's a lot of people to work're you know how many oil fields have to spring up for 5 000 people 5 000 people is a lot that's a lot of people to work you know what i mean so uh uh post-world war two the uh the they were booming because that's when the fuel industry really picked up car sales

that's when we were like drilling like crazy oh yeah so uh by 1960 there was 3 500 people here by the u.s census not the uh their stupid website so uh the 60s though the there was 3,500 people here by the U.S. census, not their stupid website. So the 60s, though, there was closure of carbon black plants. What the fuck is that? They had their carbon black industries. Oh, okay, got it. Yeah, like a plant that made, yeah, carbon black plants, which was, so there was closure of there and that kind of closure of some of those that

dip the population here okay and uh the 2000s though they opened up uh your urenco which sounds like it has to do with urine but it doesn't u-r-e-n-c-o usa uranium enrichment plant and uh yeah they opened that there oh boy now the town site talks about how it's going to be, you know, the workers are going to be starting it within two years. And it was done in 2006. Took them a minute. That's how old the website is. They don't even say, yay, we have this now. They're like, it's getting started 15 years ago.

Now, their site, this is what they claim. Eunice has a friendly small town atmosphere, great schools and churches, and churches clear skies mild winters and a low cost of living at the present time we are in a period of sudden growth the oil field which is presently our main employer is in a boom period due to the price of oil this was in 2004 mind you that they're talking about literally uh all companies are in need of employees are on with unemployment in the town running at 0%. Not true at all. Not even close to true. And the housing market is exploding.

It's doing great. It's still cheap to live there because it's a terrible place. It's a barren wasteland. It sounds very New Mexico. They're enriching uranium, James. It's Amarillo minus that steak place with the old 96er or whatever that you drive by. That's what it is. It's a dump.

Yeah. So it's known the area is known as Nuclear Alley, which also has a waste isolation pilot plant and waste control specialist. So this place is dangerous. Pilot plant. Yeah. That's the fucking test. Like, yeah, we're figuring out how to do this.

This is like in in vegas vacation when they went to cousin eddie's house and you know everybody had radiation you could cook chicken on the ground not because of the heat but because it was irradiated that's what's happening chicken breasts on a rock like it was a grill yeah you're hungry of a grill so on the town site they say now i love how on the town site as of july 2005 they list they had one convenience convenience store two drinking establishments two i assume they mean a bar a bar one requiring membership oh so they have one like private drinking club and then one you gotta pay yeah i assume one is for like non-oil workers probably or something like we don't want them in here people who own the oil yeah the oil fields they drink in there or it's a club for like

the people that are fucking radiated yeah maybe it's those fuckers out of here mutants out of here uh nine places to dine in or carry out so that would be nine restaurants maybe though who knows if one of them is a Dairy Queen. We don't know. A bank. One bank. One bank. A discount store.

A grocery store. A health clinic. An inn. Okay. So, and motel. Insurance shop. A lumber yard. Organizations.

A seasonal tax office. And a towing and auto service. Ooh. It says many more businesses are popping up. Things are growing in the future and eunice is going to be something to behold no it's not that was 15 years ago nothing to behold same shit it's the same town uh they're they're trying to keep their town nice is what they're saying i found these articles and they said an oil boom usually brings a lot of traffic and all sorts of

people and crime and shit like that and But Eunice is a friendly town, is saying in this article. One Eunice resident said, it's what I love about this town, how friendly it is. You go to the grocery store and everyone says hello, no matter if you live here or are just visiting. That sounds like a fucking nightmare.

That sounds terrible. Don't talk to me, weirdo people I don't know who live in the middle of nowhere and possibly have nuclear radiation running through your veins. Leave me alone. You have a fucking disposal pilot program. Yeah, this is terrible. I thought you wanted to keep your town nice.

Nope, nope. Well, nice, but with jobs, apparently. So they said the best thing that's happened is there's a construction of a swimming pool. They said the old swimming pool, they let a giant tree grow out of the middle of it. So they eventually had to replace that because it didn't work anymore once you put a tree in it. Sounds nice.

Wouldn't it be nice to have shade in here? But you got to get an umbrella. That's the thing. You can't just grow a tree out of the middle of it. What the fuck? Is there a weed down there? I don't know. I've been trying to scoop it.

It won't come out. Just forget it. Can you get it with the basket? With the basket? Yeah, can you get it? No, it won't come out. Just forget it. Can you get it with the basket? No, it won't come out. The net won't get it. I don't know. I run it over.

It stays right there. Damn leaves. Eunice High School, the baseball team, has produced 17 state championships, which is incredible for some little weird. It's got to be the nuclear. It's got to be. They have to be radiated. It's like a comic book origin story of a superhero baseball team or villains, maybe.

I don't know. It's their fifth in the nation with the most state championships for high school baseball. Fifth. Fifth. Wow. Everybody. Yeah. Crazy.

That's insane. Yeah. I found reviews. I couldn't find a review of Eunice because it's small, but I found a review of a nearby town that's 20 minutes away. I feel like probably sums it up. It's Hobbs. It's a two-star review and said living in Hobbs was rough. The economy relies solely on the oil field.

The only thing kids find interest in are drugs and partying. I lived there my entire life and after 18 years was happy to get out. The town is growing, but it still isn't a town I would feel safe or happy to live in depressing that's what it sounds like you go there you work the fields it's not something where you're like i'm gonna move my whole family here i mean maybe some people enjoy it but i don't know how you would enjoy living in the flat barren oil fields how bad's the town southeastern new mexico how bad's the town got to be that you move out and then you still write a shit review that's so bad's so bad i gotta you can't even just forget about it albuquerque santa fe those they're beautiful yeah and it's still shit andy there's still shit and it's gorgeous can you

imagine what flat desert is it's terrible so uh yeah population these days 3065 people here up 15 since 1990 so the town website still trying to live up they still got 2,500 more people to get to their mid-30s estimate here female population is actually average it's a little over half which is weird for an oil field town it's not usually that's different but the age is a little younger which is normal for that it's 32.8 is the median age here 10 to 14 year olds that age group is like double i don't know what happened i assume nuclear radiation and that's right when it went in there too oh yeah so yeah 10 to 14 so it people were fertile people

yeah spit them out uh 35 to 44 year old is also high i assume that's their parents so there's a lot of that going on oil workers and their kids radiation well who knows uh married a population is a little bit higher which is also odd for an oil town so it's like the it's like the fat like if you move to work the fields you'd like live in hobs if you were single but if you have a family you live in unis it seems like that's the it's like the town the family town of the oil lands for better the muck land i don't know what else to call the muck land the divorce rates high here also though because yeah because the the women came up pregnant and the guy didn't even fuck her he's like well what the hell is this that's when you turn green and bash the house down with your bare

hands i feel like you're you know what i mean it'll ruin a marriage when you do shit like that from all the all the radiation widow rates low though which is nobody's dying in the oil fields apparently or an average amount of people i guess i don't know uh single with children is a lot the 27 of the population so that's their high divorce rate race of this town is 47 white so low white in this town it's normally about 61 and a half percent uh 0.0 percent black 0.0 percent asian uh native american 0.2 percent so there goes your that's interesting horrible racist theory down the drain there this is the south that's yeah and 52.4 percent hispanic so interesting white dudes and Mexican dudes. That's who lives here. And ladies, because it's half and half. 56.7% of the people here are religious, which is weird for kind of a barren, weird.

I mean, it's the family town, though. It's different. 22% are Baptist, which sounds strange, but there's a lot of people from Louisiana and Texas that move here. Is there? Oil field people. Okay. Yeah, that move there for oil jobs.

A lot of people move there from there. So that's where the Baptists come from. And then 16.5% Catholic, because obviously Hispanic and Catholic go together. Like, I don't know. Peanut butter and jelly, I guess. There you go. So peas and honey? It's something.

1.5% Mormon. They're like, maybe. We'll think about it. We're putting feelers down there. We'll see. See how the guardrails are down here. They're like, maybe. We'll think about it. We're putting feelers down there. We'll see. See how the guardrails are down here. We're not sure. 0.0% Jewish, 0.0% Muslim.

And in this town, politically, in the last election, 22% of the people voted Democrat, 70% Republican. So it's a pretty conservative little area. It's a religious family. Leaning on taxes. And also, well, there are also people who are employed with the oil industry. And one part, and this isn't political, but one party is a little more enthusiastic about the oil industry than another. A little bit. That's all I'm saying.

So you might vote for that party if your job depends on it. You know, whatever. So, again, not political, just common sense. Tend to root on that that's yeah that's how it is uh median household income because the oil fields is actually high here uh normally it's about 57 000 here it is 61 600 bucks so yeah the oil field jobs pay well that's why people will move to a barren shithole like this uh the jobs mining jobs normally in the country it's sorry just the absolute ease with which you call this place a barren shithole

it's almost as if you've been to new mexico a couple of times almost like i've driven through this country before and i have a few times and it's not great you go is there anything when is something gonna happen there's nothing here if ever baron shithole has ever been an apropos name it's perfect they should just call some towns in new mexico yeah and then west texas too they could call it north baron baron west baron shithole works perfect it's per east baron shit all uh normally the mining jobs are 0.6 percent here they're they're 20 so that's that's the jobs and there's also more construction than normal here and that sort of thing no manufacturing or very little manufacturing a lot of like wholesale trading so that's like the you know commodities people i assume they're selling oil

and figuring out what they have there i'm not sure exactly how that works i know nothing about oil but uh i assume you have to sell it some at some point to somebody that's the whole point of digging it up that would be the thing there so cost of living here 100 regular average par here it is uh 79 oh so it's a low cost of living when a high lots of money that's why you can live there. Housing is a 56. Median home cost, $104,000. That's almost free. So yeah, if you can make 60 grand a year in a $100,000 house, that's pretty damn good.

You can get life together. You can get it all together. Most of the houses here, the majority fall between like 60 and 150,000 bucks. That's where most of them are worth uh in that in that range it is voted or i don't know how they do this it's said to be on dodge globe.com it is the number 33 most affordable small town in the u.s number 33 number 33 i don't know how they rank that but whatever and if we've convinced you that this barren shithole is for you

we have for you the unice, New Mexico Real Estate Report. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $942, which is high based on the housing. But I think that's because you're going to have transient people coming in soon and leasing. More rental than buying. Not necessarily transient. Well, that's the word.

it just sounds horrible. They've just transitioned it to another thing now. I found a five bedroom, two bath, 1,865 square foot house here for $145,000 which is pretty cheap

and it's well put together. It looks like a decent house. Found a four-bedroom, two-bath, 2,100-square-foot house. Very nice. Like I said, it seems sort of up-to-date in the last 20 years anyway. $157,000 for it, though. Not bad. And then I found, if you want, maybe you're an investor, I found an apartment complex thing.

It's three units all attached, two bedroom two bath uh with updates and granite countertops and all this shit 420 grand to own all three don't all three the whole thing so there you go i don't know invest in the units make some money uh things to do holy shit uh the 85th annual leah county fair and rodeo yeah let's do's do it. Saddle them up. Everything there. They have local team roping. All right. Locals that get together in teams and rope barrel races. Yeah. Which, you know.

That's where you ride horses around barrels. Oh, is that what it is? Yeah. I thought it's where you put suspenders in the barrels and ran in them. No. No? Okay. I literally thought that's what it was.

Because it makes sense with the other stuff. Mutton busting. Yeah, that's the kids was. Because it makes sense with the other stuff. Mutton busting. Yeah, that's the kids. Is that what that is? That's kids. That's kids torturing animals? What is that? Yes.

Kids fucking with animals? And that's actually probably what it really is, because they're roping. They're probably not very good at it. They're learning. They're just hanging these for it. They're choking out a goat or two. That's what that shit is. Jesus uh stick horse race don't okay literally i saw a picture it's children with sticks yeah the horse had on it racing each other that's the ones that next year they'll be mutton busting yeah i want that you know there's one adult that entered into that

just knocking all the other kids over spiking his fucking stick horse down at the end being like yeah motherfucker what what standing over the some the corpse of some child oh stick horse stick coming out of his ass and you're just standing over him yeah just shit talk take that face uh yeah uh and also finally the main event here the 59th annual fiddlers contest oh boy. Oh, boy. Get your fiddling. Come on down. Bing-da-ling-ding-ding-ding-do. We're going to have a moonshine jug. Moonshine jug band. Jug band contest after that. Fiddlers, though, that takes talent, though.

That's like playing the violin. It's fucking hard. That's really hard. They're just using their talent for evil. If you're good at it. Yeah, that's the thing. I don't know in this contest how many good at it's there's going to be. There's only 3,000 people here, for christ's sake and cody johnson oh do you know who he is he's

apparently a country singer who and i don't mean this there's nothing wrong with it he looks like a super gay cowboy in his picture he looks like he's got a smile on his face like you know what's in these jeans so he's probably won a grammy yeah he looks but he's got a smile on his face like, you know what's in these jeans. So he's probably won a Grammy. Yeah, he looks, but he's like in a cowboy outfit, but the look, he's very, yeah, I think it's the look he's going for. That's what I mean. It's fine. Do whatever you want. I just mean he's not trying to look tough is what I mean.

Is he a local or did they book him? He's not like, I'm a cowboy. He's not like that. I don't know. He's not Jamie Johnson. It costs 10 bucks to see him, so I don't know what it is here. Also, the 27th annual United Way Chili Festival. It's for a good cause, but I don't care if it's to raise money to get kids on drugs.

I want chili. I'll go there. I fucking love chili. Let's go chili. I'm into it. Jesus Christ. Is it C-H-I-L-I? Chili.

It's a chili festival. Because it's New Mexico. It could be a chili pepper. You know what I'm saying? This is big things of chili. I saw cheese on them and everything. I was like, that looks good. I wonder what these fuckers are growing in that ground. This is what there is to do there, by the way, for a teenager.

I found a news report. This is from six months ago, not 1965, that a high school was forced to delay classes after Vandal slipped into the campus here. This is the Hobbs News son who got this. Slipped onto the campus and poured vegetable oil all throughout the hallways.

Slicking the whole hallways. The surveillance cameras got six people wearing black clothing and hoodies. They came in full ninja like they're robbing a casino in a heist movie

to pour vegetable oil on the floors. Somebody see if they've been pouring that shit on the freeways? They may have been hitting guard heist movie to pour vegetable oil on the floors somebody see if they've been pouring that shit on the freeways they may have been hitting guard so it's nobody's fault no arrest made as of yet they couldn't catch them couldn't catch them too slick they got away they're slippery i won't be able to sleep sleep tonight after that that's terrible property car crime in this town. What we're interested in.

Property crime. A little low. Maybe 10% under the normal here. Violent crime, though. Murder, rape, robbery, and of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is low. It's only about half the average. Maybe a little over half the average.

So it's a low, kind of a safe area. You know, people come in and out, but it's families in this area. It's kind of a safe place but speaking of safe let's talk about a murder okay let me say it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched he claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details

of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook,

where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law,

her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing

up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied.

Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts

hey everybody just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Third Love. Thirdlove.com. That's right. Support for today's show does come from Third Love with more than 80 sizes, including their signature half-cup sizes. Third Love design bras with breast shape and size in mind for a perfect fit and a premium feel. These are awesome bras. Obviously, let's be honest here.

Jimmy and I don't wear these bras. We don't. I mean, maybe as we get older, we might need one. But for right now, we're doing pretty okay. I'm all right. We don't need bras. But these bras, Sarah, my wife, Emily, your girlfriend, she loves it. They love these bras.

I'm telling you right now sarah literally threw out all the rest of her bras and replaced them with third love because she said she can't put another bra on after having the third love they're so comfortable that's how comfortable they are she said they're not hot it doesn't like stab her or crunch her and they look great they do look they look nice i gotta say from that's the only thing that's what i can tell you the only judgment i can make on it is that's a fine-looking bra, but comfort and ease, and they're just wonderful. I can't tell you.

I've heard a million. And our listeners, too. They send us messages. Thank you for the third love code because these bras are amazing. It's unbelievable. So you need to get yours right now. This is hands down the most comfortable bra you'll ever own with straps that won't slip and tagless labels, not to mention lightweight, super thin memory foam cups that mold to your shape, your shape.

Best of all, every customer has 60 days to wear it, wash it, and put it to the test. Make sure it works for you. And if you don't love it, you know what you can do? You can return it. Third Love will wash it and donate it to a woman in need. There you go. Fantastic product, fantastic company. Third Love knows there's a perfect bra for

everyone. So right now they're offering our listeners 15% off your first order. Just go to thirdlove.com slash town to find your perfect fitting bra and you'll get 15% off your first purchase. You can't beat that. That's thirdlove.com

slash town for 15% off today. And now back to the show. Because I got one. Oh. Oh. We have a murder here. Let's talk about it. Let's go back in time for a minute here.

That's not where the case is. But to start the case off, we need to go back in time and to talk about it. We're flying back in time. Yeah. This is going way back. Clock spinning. spinning we're gonna go from color to black and white put it that way new mexico is gonna look the same and it's yeah we're gonna go hey eunice looks exactly it's exactly the same nothing's changed there's less radiation but still just oil and flatness yeah so uh yeah 1961 we're going back to so okay john kennedy is president yeah you know what i mean that's that's this is what we're this is the era we're in here

this is a to put it in perspective uh 61 uh charles allen motes talk about him m-o-t-e-s charles allen motes uh marries a young lady named Stella Kayleen Henderson. OK, they get married in 1961. They're kind of small town people. Stella, from what I could gather here, grew up. I know she's from Texas and she grew up on a farm. From what I could see, seems to have about, I think, five brothers and sisters. And her father is a farmer so i assume

that they probably grew up on a farm and you know it's not usually a nine to five occupation if you're generally a farmer yeah most of the time so he's a farmer so i believe she grows up on a farm in a small town in texas here so probably gets married to get off the farm yeah i either have to get up at four and milk the cows or i can marry this dildo i'm out have a good one everybody thank you but uh i don't give a shit what he does or where he is or who he is that's what that's the thing that sucks is like back then women would just screw their lives just to get out of their house because they were so there wasn't like they couldn't just be like yeah i'm gonna go move in with a couple of my friends and like that wasn't okay back then figure it out somehow i'll figure

it out you know maybe i'll live in the dorm and then i'll go over here maybe i'll meet a guy yeah who knows it wasn't that it was if you weren't going to college you know if that wasn't your path and it's not everybody's path then you wanted to get married because otherwise you'd sit in your goddamn house and hear your mother ask why you're not married yet. Why she doesn't have any grandkids. You're 19. I should have at least two grandkids by now. This is ridiculous. So that's tough.

And we've seen that in a few of our stories with these women who just would get married back then just to get out of the house. You don't hear that as much now. You don't hear people get married. They'll move in with a guy to get out of the house but you can get out of that that's not legal anyway luckily yeah but uh i mean you can at most legality is that you gotta right pay a broken lease that's it yeah you're gonna have to some charge from a from a apartment complex on your credit that's about it there so there's no divorce there's no divorce or yeah you're less likely i guess especially back then as soon as they got married they'd start having kids too so then you're really trapped now you're

married just to get off the farm now you have three kids that you're trying to deal with and it's tough man it was a tough tough time for women back then with the uh in the cheer up bitch era as we like to call it on this show when they would not exactly take anything seriously that was wrong. Just, I don't know, cheer up, bitch. Your grievances were not heard. Not heard, we'll say. Postpartum, that's where that kid,

just cheer up, bitch. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know. Lighten the fuck up. How are you going to do all that house cleaning with that attitude? That was like a doctor, though, back then. It was literally like,

well, you're not going to get the dishes done like that. Here's some speed. Go home. You'll feel better. And they would do that. Stop whining. You sound like a real bitch. Let me get you some diet pills.

Maybe your fat ass is making you be in this bad mood. Is that possible? It's slowing you down. Slowing you down. Yeah, here you go. You'll be skinnier. Your husband will like you better. Your house will be cleaner.

And that was your doctor back then. The problem is that you take those pills, and get hotter and then he wants to fuck you and then now you got another goddamn kid i have more kids yeah yeah you looked good and you got you had enough time to get ready and have the house clean and he got all excited about it's not great stop so tough times back then and uh it's better that that's not like that yeah say that's not great it's still not great no no no we're working on it that's way worse made a few improvements yeah your doctor wouldn't tell you to cheer up bitch i don't think now so uh charles seems to have when i could gather from him spent time in both texas and new mexico seems like his family's from texas but he moves

to new mexico on his own at an early age west texas or like san antonio west texas and yeah these are nobody lives in dallas or like houston this is all like towns i've never heard of in texas everybody lives in they're all weird weird places like ortez or some shit yeah we'll talk about one of these towns the weirdest fucking place it's a weird strange names for shit like they get they just drop letters for no reason like or tez i guarantee you that's something in texas oh yeah it makes no sense nope just or mel what what are we here for just doing like canned yeah i don't know i'm just a viking thing salsa brands and shit just putting an o in front of words. Putting an O in front of words. That's perfect.

Hottest. You know how it is. So, yeah, he spends time in Texas and New Mexico. I feel like his family's there. We'll talk about a small Texas town a little later that comes into play here. He is a blue-collar guy. He's a heavy equipment operator on construction sites, shit like that. So, you know, just blue-collar dude. And she comes from a blue-collar family.

They're farmers, and her brothers, too, are all like, they're all like, you know, a mechanic. Okay. They're all like mechanics. Hard-working sons of bitches. People who work with their hands. Yeah.

They're all dirty-handed guys. Right. Yeah, that's how it's done. People with a trade. That's a tradesman. There you go, tradesman. And I feel like maybe she saw that in him. Oh, look, it's like my family,

and, you know, hard-working dude, that sort of thing. So they get married. From what I understand and everything I could gather, I believe they have three children, two girls and a boy. There might be more, but I know of two girls and a boy. Okay. So that's what I got. They have three children and life goes pretty quiet for them.

They live around New mexico a couple different places this is 61 this is 61 they got married and then all through the 60s they have children and uh and uh they like i said they live in southeastern new mexico kind of bouncing around this town that town but uh you know it seems to be a decent marriage they there's no complaints nobody there's no domestic violence that that's you know out in the open anyway the cops have never been called to the house that the kids weren't horribly abused it just seems like a normal family of five your standard bear you know standard fair family of five here got it uh the only thing i could find on any of these people is 1977. I found that Charles at 35

years old. He lived in Alamogordo at the time Alamogordo. That's where they lived for a while. The two of them. That's Texas, right? No, that is New Mexico. Yeah, that's New Mexico. Alamogordo is New Mexico. I know I've seen the fucking sign. Yeah, I know. It sounds like it should be

Texas, but I know it's a New Mexico. I'm sure it's on. It's basically this is Texas, New Mexico. Yeah, that's what you could cut off that whole. This is Texaco, Texaco, New Texaco. Yeah, you could slice off. You could slice off that whole corner, like a third of the of the state, that southeastern corner and give it to Texas. And that's and it would make sense.

It would make sense. At that moment, at that point, Charles was arrested on charges of speeding in a DUI or DWI at the time. Thirty five. Thirty five years old. So, yeah, thirty five. He's going a little fast on a probably who the shit knows, some empty road somewhere and gets charged with a DUI or DWI. So there was that bond that set at three hundred dollars. I mean, it was and this was in 1977.

Let's face it. He had to be super shit. You had to be tanked to not just be like shit in 1977. They'd be like, think you can make it home. That would be like, you've been drinking tonight, sir. Yeah, I had a few. Think you can make it home. No, I get off this guardrail.

Can you pry my fender off that guardrail? Then I think I can make it. I think I can do it after that. And if not, they'd be like, you want to follow me? Or they'd follow you. You want a ride? Yeah, people, they would do that back then. They would fucking follow a guy.

Absolutely. Oh, you look a little, I'll follow you home. I'll stay right on your bumper. I'll watch you careen into a tree. I'll watch you kill a whole family. I'll watch you kill a bus full of nuns no problem yeah plow right into them just really get them good in tanks cars were fucking tanks giant 1977 giant tank 12 000 pound missile no just go let's get you home quick just go real fast

get you off the road that's the thing We want to get you off the streets. So make it fast. If you're slow, people can run out in front of you. If you're going fast, they'll know to stay away. That's how it works. It's the way you could tell everyone

you were drunk back then. That was the polite thing to do. You drive 80 miles an hour through town. People go, he's drunk, run! And that way they all know. Otherwise, if you're just going 35,

they think you're normal. They get in your way, you hit them because you're drunk. My sergeant might get mad if I don't arrest you so tell you what we'll both drive with our lights off so that nobody sees us yeah how about that yeah we'll all be quiet get the fuck out of here let's go how about this now if i would my sergeant i'd get in trouble but how about this hold on give me about five i'm gonna have a six-pack in my car that way i'll have an excuse i'll be like well i couldn't be a hypocrite

i was just as shit-faced as he was that way i won't get in trouble so better idea your car is a little it doesn't look road what if what you've been drinking once you drive my car i'll take yours i'll take this one you grab my car just don't touch the shotgun up front and try not to dick with the sirens it's the middle of the night all right everybody calls don't answer don't answer just ignore it just mumble it goes yes it breaks off and then hang up they'll think it's a bad signal and they'll just call back later it's fine so jesus christ yeah you really had to be in 1977 to get a dwi so march of 1993 though uh so they're married now from 61 to 1993. So that's 32 years. They have some kids. They move around New Mexico. All of this in 1993. Charles is he's going to be 60. So I mean, I'm sorry, he's in his face. Fifty two at this point, 51. So I don't know what ends up

happening, but there's trouble in the marriage in the last few years. And this happens with a lot of people. You see it a lot when their kids move out and they don't know how to deal with each other. Oh, yeah. That's what I, you know, if they have three kids. We both had jobs to do at home. Yeah. And they raise them.

Now there's no jobs. Yeah. They fucking put up with you. And now they have to stare at each other. Right. And they realize, oh, all we know how to do together is make sure the kids don't die. We don't have any interpersonal. We don't have anything.

We're younger. We made kids together. Yeah, that great. And then we just. So that's what happens, I think. So I feel like maybe that's what happened. But either way, in March of 1993, Stella files for divorce and they end up divorcing here in 1993. So whatever happens, it didn't work work out which has to be hard after 32

years to think wow i mean that just has to be rough to to start over a lot of people do it but it has to be a tough feeling of okay you know that gather yourself thing that you have to do to do that in your 50s of i have to start over i have to go start dating now i'm gonna try to find companionship yeah i haven't been looking 30 something years has been since the last time do that in your 50s of i have to start over i have to go start dating now i'm gonna try to find companionship yeah i haven't been looking 30 something years has been since the last time somebody's gonna look at a 50 year old naked me at some point this is not good the last time i went out on a date i had a beehive hairdo and the fucking beetles weren't out yet so you know what i'm saying like this is that's the last time. Literally, John Kennedy was president the last time I was on a date.

And now I'm going to have to go out in 93? Yeah. Holy Jesus. In 93. Think about that. I mean, Wu-Tang is out now. That's what I'm saying. She went from Kennedy as president to Wu-Tang being out with this man.

It's a long stretch. From Kennedy to Tupac. It's a long one. That's a big one here. So that's how it works here. So they get a divorce. She, like I said, files for the divorce. And she ends up, through the divorce and everything else, she ends up maintaining ownership of the home they lived in.

So it's her house. But he just won't leave. What? Charles just refuses to leave. What the fuck? I don't know how that works. No. It's a divorce to leave what the fuck i don't know how that works no you it's a divorce you get the fuck out she got the house in the divorce you have to go now you can't

stay and he just went i'm gonna stay right here yeah she went yeah but i i'd like you to leave i want to start my life and he went i understand i filed a divorce no but something on tv i'll be fine and she just all right what literally was like all right i guess that's that she could call the cops nope i feel like stella is she comes from a different time and era texas a farm in texas growing up in the 40s and 50s on a farm in texas i don't feel like it taught uh women to assert themselves in their marriages probably that much. Sometimes maybe, but I don't think that was probably something that was really ingrained in her. I feel like to not be walked all over.

You're getting used here. Bad. And you're fucking almost, this is like. Right in your face. You're almost liking it. This is like a fucking Bill Withers song. This is not okay jesus what do you not know that reference no i don't know the reference but i know who bill withers is he's got to try a little tenderness that's him right no isn't that him

who is that or is he ain't no sunshine ain't no sunshine that's him yeah a lovely day yeah and use me which is a fucking great i don't know it god damn it i know bill withers and i don't know that song are you kidding me not in the it's not in my head right now damn song you know where they play it where you might hear it yeah episode one of the wire in the goddamn strip club when d'angelo gets out of fucking jail and goes and talks to... That's what's playing. Okay.

That's what's playing. I'll watch it. For Bill Withers. I've got to spread the news, Jimmy. It feels this good getting used. Okay. I'm in. I'm listening.

Just keep on using me. Wait for it. Until you use me up. Come on, Jimmy. Damn it. You don't know the fucking. I don't know that song. No, you don't know it yet.

You jumped in on my groove down here. That's right. Jesus. Isn't that who sings fucking Try a Little Tenderness? Isn't that Bill Withers? I don't know if he sings that. It ain't no sunshine, though. He's that guy.

I know what he looks like. Oh, he's the greatest. He's great. Amazing singer. No, he's amazing. But Charles, on the other hand, Stella's just keep on using. She's okay with it.

He's not going to be okay with using her in a minute when she comes home with a dude and is taking pipe. Well, this is what ends up happening. The daughter said, quote, he would not move out be okay with using her in a minute when she comes home with a dude and is taking pipe well this is what ends up happening the daughter said quote he would not move out so she left she got the house in the divorce and she just leaves she just gives he just says nope i'm not leaving and she rather than fight for it she just says i'll just move out then i'll just leave but she owns it but she owns it but now she has to go leave. She should fucking sell it right up front. Right.

Something. How about you just call the goddamn cops and go, this is my house. I don't want to live in it anymore. Be the winner of this. Instead, she moves to Texas to live with her daughter. Rather than have her own home to start her life over in, in a town that she's been living in and everything, she has to move to, and this is Level Land, Texas. Jesus. I think there's any living in and everything. She has to move to and this level land, Texas. Jesus.

I think there's any hill in that. It's called level land. That's how boring it is. Someone said, what do we call it? Well, shit's pretty level. That's all there is here is flatness. So it's either flatness, Texas or level land. What do you say?

Sounds like an amusement park. Level land. There's just levels everywhere. Every do you say? Sounds like an amusement park. Level Land. There's just levels everywhere. Yeah, I just... Sounds fun. Every time you say Level Land, I see Legoland. It sounds fun, right? It sounds great.

I see like these levels that you get on and ride like a big Ferris wheel. I don't know. It sounds like a good time. There's all kinds of different levels everywhere. Skip around. Whee! It's level five. Yay!

Yay! Come on, kids. Level five. It sounds great. But it's Level Land,xas so that's where she moved rather than her own home yeah to live with her daughter so now she's got to live with her goddamn daughter who by the way she also named stella you know so they have a junior daughter they have a son named charles the middle names are different though okay the mother is stella

kayleen the daughter is stella ann so and the father is Stella Ann. And the father is Charles Allen. And the son is Charles Joseph, maybe something. But not Charles Allen. Either way. They don't junior up. Okay. Which is good, as we know from crime and sports here. So, yeah.

So, it's June 1993. She moves in with her daughter. So, for three months, they fought it out over the house. They lived together after they divorced. And then, finally, she gave up and up and left so that's how that works june 26th 1993 okay he's still living in the house in eunice charles is stella is living in level land texas just she can see clear to the other side of everything she can see her house from there she can see japan from there it's just look west so uh uh yeah but the next day on june 27th apparently charles and stella both have appointments to go get dental work done in

juarez okay jesus yeah this is if you live outside the country outside of the united states this is what people with no insurance do right when they have to do shit, they go to fucking Mexico to get health care and to get dental care because that's all they can afford. And yeah. So as you can imagine, the standards aren't exactly the same. No. There. And I mean, you know, whatever.

He's using picks on your teeth. He just used on the last 27 people. Yeah. It's not the same standards and inspection processes and shit in Mexico because I saw an expose on that whole thing once and I was like, oh God, you don't want to go down there. You'll wind up with Hep C tomorrow. Yeah, especially on the border because they know people are coming down there. So they're just pumping stuff out just to make the money.

It's tough. So they go down there. They're supposed to go down there. So on June 26th, it's a Saturday, Stella travels from Texas to Eunice and spends the night at the, she's supposed to come spend the night at the house with Charles. And then the next morning they go down to Juarez and get some dental work done. Okay. Okay. So that's how that's supposed to go.

Now, this is all planned. Now, ahead of time, before she's supposed to get there, Charles is at home. And Charles, their son, lives with Charles. So that's, I guess, part of the deal is Charles gets to stay there, too. So Charles, the son, the father tells the son, make yourself fucking scarce tonight. Yeah. Don't come home tonight. Yeah.

Do me a favor. Don't come home. Your mom's coming. Right. I'm going to bang her out real good. All right. You know what I mean? He doesn't say coming. I'm going to bang her out real good. All right. You know what I mean? He doesn't say that, but I'm going to tie on the doorknob.

I'm going to give it to mama real good over here. So you better get a hotel. These thin walls will not hold our passion is what I'm saying. You're not going to hold the passion that I have inside of me. It's big. I got a big passion. Charles is actually the father charles senior here i got about six and a half inches of passion i'm gonna give your mama i got i got three thick inches of

passion let me tell you something uh he's about five foot four oh really he's a tiny guy charles yeah he's a small dude so uh you know he's like i'm a small guy but my passion i'll tell you throbbing ass passion you're gonna hear it from your room let's just say that so you want to get the hell out of here sleep somewhere else so uh not from your mother by the way from me i'm a screamer i make a lot of noise i do it's a lot grunts screams i yell out racial slurs things like that yeah no reason but it makes me feel good you know what i mean jesus i can't come without it what do you want from me what do you want from me But it makes me feel good. You know what I mean? God, Jesus. I can't come without it.

What do you want from me? I don't know. What do you want from me? It's not my fault. It's in me. There's none of them here. They can't hear me. What do you care?

Blame my dad. Hey, what do you want? I love how he went from a hillbilly to, hey, I don't know, fucking guy. The most racist, awful shit ever. I'm going to bang her out good, say the M word a few times, and then you can come back in the morning. All right? All right. Get the fuck out of here.

Here's $30. Stella, make me some fucking linguine. Stay at that inn, would you? Stay at that inn. The one inn. Well, actually, at this point, I don't even know if there is an inn, because he has to drive to Hobbs to go to a hotel. Really? Yeah.

I don't know if there's any inns here in 1993. Or the inn might be just sold out. It might be sold out. Both rooms might be taken. So, who knows? Right. It's just some guy's house

that puts a sign out that says inn. A cardboard sign handwritten. I-N. Well, my kids are both left. Right. They both got older

so you could use their rooms. Both their rooms. One of them has a race car bed. That one's extra. That room's extra, because it's pretty festive. Yeah. You're going to want to go vroom, vroom around. You know how it is.

So five extra dollars. No big deal. It's got Disney sheets. It's got Disney sheets. That's trademarks. I've got to pay extra for that. You know how that goes. It's got them little mermaid sheets, because it's 1993.

I was thinking cars. Yeah, yeah. I was going to say Toy say toy story then i'm like it's 93 there's no toy story yet so yeah we'll go with little mermaid i think that's 89 i think so i think so so uh charles jr here they're not senior jr but for purposes of sanity the son is jr the son is jr so jr drives by senior's house at about 9 p.m and sees his mother's car parked on the street he's like oh shit shit has begun yeah the parade has left the the barn or wherever the hell a parade starts the first baton has been tossed into the air i better keep on going yeah so he does now uh so that's nine o'clock so So then about 12, 10 a.m. So after midnight, so Stella has arrived in Eunice. We know that.

She's at the house. The car's there. About 12, 10 a.m. at midnight, Stella Jr., again, daughter Stella, who lives in Level Land and is still in Level Land, gets a call from her father. Now, he's breathless at 12, 10 a.m. Oh, boy. He's all distraught and disheveled and seems like something's wrong, basically.

And he tells her in a fit of, you know, I can't believe your mother, basically, tells her that your mom's not here anymore and she came and, you know, same shit with your mother. We're fighting all the time. And she left. She's gone. She took off. She packed her bags that she brought here and took off, went to Arizona with a, quote,

lady trucker. Oh, so I don't know where the fuck Stella. That's he says hitchhiking or like that's her lover. A lady trucker came and got her and she had her bags packed and fucking jumped on in the big rig and they're headed to the arizona now that's that's his that's what he tells stella jr so uh you know god damn it fucking lady truckers i'm like a lady trucker i know there's lady truckers but it's just funny that the way he put it that's the exact verbiage he used lady trucker lady trucker the only ones i see are the ones from big top peewee i was gonna say i see yeah i see pia tell them large marge yeah that's what i see

too it's the only one i say that's it or the one in uh seinfeld there was a lady trucker at one point that kramer was in the truck with but never mind that shit she looked like her no she didn't at all she had like long curly hair and she was younger and kramer wanted a banger okay so yeah lady trucker at midnight how big of a fight do you have to have to say first of all to keep this dental appointment even though you hate this guy and he stole your house and everything else she's she goes with the flow pretty much how much did she have to be pissed off to leave at midnight with a lady trucker to blow the whole gig you know know what I'm saying? He's left her car behind and everything.

She can't go to sleep and just sleep it off and be like, fuck it. I'll leave in the morning. No, she's got to call. She's got to leave now. She's got to call Eunice, the lady trucker. Have her come pick her up. So, yeah. Now, the daughter said that she had a general feeling that something was wrong here because it's just not normal for her mom to run off and her dad was all you know in a huff and the whole thing just seemed abnormal and odd

and for them though as a kid as their kid they have to think at this point though the behavior that they've had the last few years is aberrant to them like we moved out now mom and dad are fighting all the time now they're getting divorced like if your parents are together for 30 years and they get a divorce that's weird it is it's like are they both crazy or like you think that they're they both lost their goddamn minds or they're having some sort of you know post-midlife crisis or some weird shit like they just did it for the kids you know i mean like they wanted out a long time ago but they just wanted to get the kids out but if you'd stick around that long the kids are long gone and grown yeah they're long gone yeah they're long gone dipped when they

were 19 yeah i feel like after that it's financial right like well you know we both got our 401ks and i cashed mine out to pay for that so you're not going to just take yours now because you know that works so i get part of that yeah i feel like that's how it is people get so entangled and entwined and then you stick in a relationship just hating everybody not even just yourself and your marriage and your wife oh everybody everybody everybody suffers an angry dude is the worst fucking man on the worst thing on earth yeah you don't want an angry dude that's been married for too long that should have gotten a divorce yeah good grief the only the only thing less the only thing more angry is a dude who uh no one will fuck that's the only angrier guy is that guy yeah it's weird right that is funny only we're a picky group here we are a little

too much i need it i need it a little too much back it off a little i'm gonna get very angry so weird the hell is wrong with us? We are just a disaster. We're a messed up, Jesus Christ, messed up species, man. It's horrible. Fuck. So the son here, Chuck Jr. here, he goes to Hobbs to check into a motel. I guess I'm going to a motel for the night. Hey, I got to check in.

My dad's giving it to my ma, you know what I mean? But there's no vacancies there. Oh, no. This is a, it's a Saturday night, so I mean, whatever. But I want to, you know what I mean? But there's no vacancies there. Oh, no. This is a, it's a Saturday night, so I mean, whatever. But I want to, you know what? I'm going to turn that three-bedroom real estate report, three-apartment house thing into a hotel, damn it, because this is a booming business going on here. So no vacancies, so he returns to Eunice.

He says when he returned that his mother's car parked on the street still so uh that was that so somehow he finds a place to stay in town in unis that night yeah he doesn't go home though you know that or some shit you know how it goes he just got on his phone in 93 and was like yeah airbnb this is gonna be huge one day airbnb would be knocking on someone's door and go my car broke down out there can i come in and use your phone sleep on your couch can i sleep on the couch please so now charles arrives in the morning he comes at like 5 a.m though because he's like you know i've been wandering around all night it was checkout it was checkout time at my friend's couch so i had to be here they all had to go to work everyone goes to the oil fields early so you know how it goes so uh he gets there and his dad says oh yeah uh

your mom called before and i'm on the phone with her right now he says too i'm on the phone with her she she says he says to the son she is in arizona with the lady trucker uh they're at a truck stop eating breakfast right now so she stopped and getting to call me and let me know that they got there safe so yeah your mother's in mother's in Arizona and she's having two eggs over easy with some hash browns and sausage. So Jesus Christ. So that that fuck me. The next morning here. The one thing is the mother's car is not in the front yard.

It is not out front anymore. So Chuck's like, where's mom's car? And the car was in the backyard. Now, now the car was in the backyard now now the car's in the backyard not the front not out in front of the house and his mother's not there so he's like so so mom yeah so she that's what he said he's like well after mom left to go to hang out with the lady trucker right i saw her car in front of the house so she's been in arizona and dad just said she's in arizona right yet her car got moved to the back so i don't know that's an odd thing so he thought that was very weird and uh

yeah his mother his father reiterates here your mom left before midnight lady trucker eating breakfast that's how it works here so also that morning uh charles senior asked charles jr can you get me a hold of a backhoe he's like i need a backhoe he said because uh i gave charles senior asked charles jr can you get me a hold of a backhoe he's like i need a backhoe he said because uh i gave charles buries shit in the yard all the time that's his thing that he does if he has junk yeah he he buries it okay doesn't take it to a junkyard he doesn't he just digs a fucking trench with a backhoe puts all the puts it in it puts fucking dirt on it jesus i don't know it's the nuclear example i guess they do we'll just bury it it'll Jesus. I don't know. It's the nuclear example, I guess. We'll just bury it. It'll be fine.

I don't know how that works, but... Out of sight, out of mind. Yeah, just bury your shit in the back of your... Done. I mean... Remember all that crap? Not there anymore, is it? It's essentially what we do anyway.

Yeah, it's just an odd way of disposing shit at your property. It's just on a much larger scale. Yeah, it's very weird to do on your property. I never decide to bury my garbage. No. it's very weird to do on your property i never buried decide to bury my garbage no it's very strange i mean you do you just throw it yeah yeah it's not in my yard it's very strange so you bury it all the time yeah yeah no shit uh so there's been a trench in the backyard for about two weeks now which is his latest dumping cycle here it's uh there's been an open trench in the backyard,

big like an eight-foot trench, eight-foot deep, big giant open trench. Oh, good lord. Yeah, because he's burying crap. He's burying like wheelbarrows and shit like that, like yard shit. He's digging like a pool.

Yeah, he's, yeah, yeah. He uses a backhoe, so he just digs a giant trench, but it's not like the width of a pool or anything like that, just enough to finish it. Bucket wide. Yeah, and then pile everything up as wide as, I guess guess the stuff is that he needs to put in it probably here

uh so that's been open for about the last two weeks and uh you know charles jr knowing that his father buried shit in the yard who said sure i'll get you a goddamn backhoe no problem here so this is all normal shit charles gets him back goes all the time. So, yeah, so this is 5.30 the next morning this is happening. John Lawson, who's a neighbor of theirs, the next-door neighbor, he sees Chuck Sr. walking around his backyard at 5.30 in the morning, just wandering around his backyard, which is weird behavior normally. He's not, like, sipping a cup of coffee, like, writing in a notebook, you know. The sunset, the sunrise. He's not like sipping a cup of coffee, like writing in a notebook. You know, the sunset is the sunrise.

He's not doing any of this shit. He's not like smoking, relaxing. He's just wandering around the backyard. Very strange. And yeah, later on in the day, he says a couple hours later, this neighbor says that he sees Chuck Senior use a backhoe to cover up this trench that's been in the yard for a while now. So now it's full. So now it's full. Yeah. It's all full of dirt here. senior use a backhoe to cover up this trench that's been in the yard for a while now so now

it's full so now it's full yeah it's all full of dirt here and uh yeah and uh the and the neighbor that morning charles talked to that neighbor and said yes stella was here last night because she said oh did stella i saw stella's car and she said yeah she was here last night and then she left and then she came back and then she left again oh because that's how that's how the car got in the back she came back moved the car and then got back in the truck. Hold ass to Arizona. She got the lady trucker to turn it around real quick. Move the car.

So you know what? It's like I left my it's like I left the oven on. I just I have to move the car around back. You know how it is around here. And now I know we've been fighting, but I don't want to inconvenience you with trying to maneuver around. You know how annoying the back for the street just put it in the back for you. The street sweeper comes.

Then you can go fuck yourself and I'll leave. And fuck you. Yeah, that's how it works. Sounds good. Thanks. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment.

While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle in theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened.

And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to generation Y ad free right now by joining Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife.

Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. Great story.

Perfect. So, yeah. So, but the rest of the day, they don't hear from Stella. Stella doesn't come around. The kids, she doesn't call her kids, which she lives with her daughter and checks in with her daughter all the time when she goes anywhere. And she had been talking to her daughter multiple times over the course of the evening when she had gotten to the house.

She never said anything about a lady trucker. None of this shit. So, this is all very up in the air. Everybody's like, well, where the fuck is mom? a lady trucker none of this shit so this is all very up in the air everybody's like well where the fuck is mom like i don't understand this shit she's a bit over easy eggs yeah well you know she gets she gets engrossed in that meal it's into it you can't get her to talk that's the thing plus late who who is better at conversation than a lady trucker that's the other thing you know they have so much to speak about they've been in the truck lonely and now you're there.

She's just a fountain of conversation, just interaction. It's wonderful. So now their other daughter, Sue Ann, she says that this is now they call Sue Ann, and they're all talking. Where's mom? Have you heard from mom? You know, they're trying to find her. Now Sue Ann is starting to get a little worried because she said,

why is mom missing? That makes no sense. mom's not going to run away with a lady trucker and not tell anybody that's just not how she is she would have called both of us and said here's the phone number i'll be at i'm going to this place that's how she is so i thought it was very weird and suanne also said listen it's been so tense between them they've been fighting i don't trust dad she said also the trench they were suanne was over at her dad's house a couple weeks ago and uh they were in the backyard and the trench was right there and they were talking about the marriage and just you know how he was upset about the whole thing and he said to his daughter quote i should have put her in the hole talking about the mother

talking about stella yeah he points at the big trench and said i should have put her in the hole like when i had the chances you know like a jo and says, I should have put her in the hole when I had the chance. It's like a jokey thing. I should have put her in the hole and make my whole life easier. Hilarious. Meanwhile, she let him stay at her house and move to Texas. This isn't even your house, Dickhead. This isn't even your house, and you live there. Put her in the hole of what?

The backyard of the house she owns? You fuck. And then what? Inside of her dirt in her yard with probably her stuff on top of her. Yeah, probably all her dirt, quote unquote, junk that you're burying. Yeah, so. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Simply Safe.

Simplisafe.com. S-I-M-P-L-l-i safe.com that is right on average a burglary happens once every 23 seconds in the united states that is wild but only one in five homes have security probably because the most companies they don't make it easy that's the problem these home security companies a lot of them they really are the worst simply safe is a whole different ball game most of these companies you call them up they really are the worst. SimpliSafe is a whole different ballgame. Most of these companies, you call them up, they come over, they try to scare you. They tell you that you need everything, wires, they tear your drywall. It's crazy.

Thousands of dollars. It's insane. It's a renovation. SimpliSafe, none of this stuff. You don't have to renovate your home. No hassle. Nothing like that. SimpliSafe makes it easy on you with no contract, no hidden fees, no fine print.

SimpliSafe, all they do is protect every door, window, and room with 24-7 professional monitoring for just $15 a month. That's amazing. It's a great deal. You're not going to beat that anywhere. It's won a ton of awards. CNET gave it awards. The New York Times Wirecutter gave it an award. One thing here that makes SimpliSafe really stand out is their video verification technology.

When other home security systems are triggered, the police often assume it's just a false alarm, and the call goes to the bottom of the list. That's how this whole thing works. Not with SimpliSafe, though. They use their video verification technology, and they can visually confirm that a break-in is happening, allowing the police to get there three and a half times faster. That's good stuff. That's going to save a lot of your stuff happening, allowing the police to get there three and a half times faster. Yes. That's good stuff.

That's going to save a lot of your stuff is what that's going to do. And I'm telling you, we had a break-in in our old house. Yeah. You remember that? Yeah. And we looked into home security, and the only way to go is SimpliSafe. Price-wise, ease-wise, it's just the only thing to do. Visit simplisafe.com slash small, and you'll get free shipping and a 60 day risk free trial.

You've got nothing to lose here. Go now and be sure to just go to SimpliSafe.com slash small so they know our show sent you. That's SimpliSafe.com slash small. And now back to the show. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about HelloFresh. Oh, HelloFresh.com. HelloFresh is great. And with HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit, you'll get easy seasonal recipes and pre-measured ingredients delivered right to your door.

All you have to do is cook and enjoy. HelloFresh makes cooking delicious meals at home a reality, regardless of your comfort in the kitchen. You don't have to be a gourmet here with this stuff. They make it easy for you. So simple. They tell you exactly what to do, from step-by-step recipes to pre-measured ingredients. HelloFresh gives you everything you need to get wow-worthy dinner on the table in about 30 minutes. Wow-worthy.

That's wow-worthy and 30 minutes. That's another wow. So fast. It's double wow with HelloFresh. So if you can finally say goodbye to endless grocery store trips or that trip through the drive-thru, that drive-thru shame trip that you take, no more doing that. HelloFresh offers something for everyone from family recipes. They have calorie- smart, vegetarian recipes.

Then they have a fun menu series like the Hall of Fame and Kraft Burgers. It's all different stuff, whatever you're into. It's so flexible, too. Easily change your delivery days, food preferences, and skip a week whenever you need it. And they won't charge you. It's good. You can adjust it or you can add extra meals to your weekly order if you have someone someone coming in, staying with you, people coming over as well as yummy add-ons like garlic bread and cookie dough.

HelloFresh is delicious. Yeah. That's all I have to say. It really is. Unbelievable. So easy. The ingredients are so fresh. The meats are really high quality.

The vegetables are fresh. Everything is excellent. Pre-measured. The ingredients, the recipes work. They're fantastic. And you can do it again and again and again. I learned how to make pickles, James. That's the thing. Once you learn this, then you're going to know it for the future. So this is great stuff and you

don't have to be an expert. It's really fantastic. For $80 off your first month of HelloFresh, just go to HelloFresh.com slash SmallTownMurder80. That's 8-0. And enter code small town murder 80 that's like receiving eight meals free just by going to hello fresh.com slash small town murder 80 and entering the code small town murder 80 and now back to the show

suanne starts to become suspicious after the the father just insists that she went to arizona so suan ends up going over to the house uh she goes over to the house she's like you know what i'm i gotta go maybe mom's there somewhere i just don't like this the feeling of this i'm gonna go over and investigate so she goes over to the house the father is not there uh charles senior's gone somewhere but charles jr is there just hanging out kicking it yeah and uh you know she's like look i'm really worried about mom and she goes down her list of why she's worried about mom which makes sense all of it makes perfect sense all the things that chuck should probably be worried about too yeah things like that yeah

she he said the whole you know thing and so suanne says i um you know what i i she said that about the hole and charles said well we he covered up the hole this morning yeah we put this junk in it and covered up the hole so i don't know and she was like i want to check in that hole she's like i want to make sure that can you give me that backhoe back yeah she's like can you get the literally can you get the backhoe back because I think we should dig that fucking hole up. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I just have a bad feeling about this and I don't trust dad lately and all this type of shit.

So Charles says, all right, he goes off, gets another backhoe. Same backhoe, I assume. Probably. Unless he's got like multiple backhoe guys. He could be just the backhoe king of Eunice. I don't know. He knows everybody with a backhoe. Who needs a backhoe?

I got it all. He opens up his jacket.hoe. Who needs a backhoe? I got it all. He opens up his jacket. It's backhoe keys hanging down his trench coat. So, yeah, they get in there. And Charles, she and Charles get up in the backhoe and they start fucking digging. Really? They start digging up the hole that was there. Like we wanted just for peace of mind.

They want to dig up this hole and they dig and they dig they get to uh almost eight feet down and they find their mother they dug eight fucking feet they dug eight feet down and found her found mom there unbelievable stella in the hole there she is there she is in the hole uh they also they they hit her with the backhoe also and did a little bit of damage there on the way in but uh yeah they dug that deep i mean they i think it was how deep was the hole yeah because charles was there junior was there when he dug it so i think he was like those things are so strong kept going they had to really fuck her up that's shitty it's not great so uh yeah they uncover they find as soon as they see any sign that their mother's there they freak out

they immediately call the police probably like blood splutters oh yeah splattered up through the hole that's the thing yeah yeah those things are strong oh they're digging up dirt think about how strong that is get a shovel and try to dig up dirt and then get a backhoe and see how easy it is fucking cut strong yeah very very strong. So they call the police. Now, when the police get there, they find they continue to dig and they have to get the crime scene people to, you know, dig a little more gently. They're not going to just get a backhoe and fucking pull her out and have a leg dangling off the thing. They got like tweezers and toothbrushes. They do it like they're looking for dinosaur bones at this point.

Because it's all. Archaeology dig. Yeah. It's like evidence. So they find her at this point. Archaeology dig. Yeah, it's like evidence. So they find her. She is just about eight feet down. First thing they find is a plastic trash bag covering her head. Oh, God.

That's a bad sign. It takes away she tripped and fell in the hole as a possibility. Because, you know, it's dark out. Maybe she went outside to, you know, wander around, get some air. You know, fucking Charles, man. And she doesn't live there. She doesn't to you know wander around get some air you know fucking charles man and she doesn't live there she doesn't you know know where the hole is she could fall in a hole and die i mean honestly that could happen but an eight-foot hole how many plastic bags were in there that she fell into that's the problem normally she's not like i'm

so fucking mad at you i'm gonna take this grocery bag put it on my head and go walk around the yard because i can't take it anymore like that's no one's ever done that that would be a very bizarre thing to do very bizarre if the neighbors saw that i hope he wrote that yeah i'm gonna take a shot that license plate that says she got a set up safeway bag on her head that is not normal i'm gonna that is a very weird thing to be doing a kroger bag you should definitely take that piggly wiggly bag off your head it's gonna do damage no good here you could die that way it's what's gonna happen so yeah plastic trash bag off your head. It's going to do damage. No good here. You could die that way. It's what's going to happen. So, yeah, plastic trash bag covers her head. Her purse is there with her also.

Just in case you had any question about who she was, her purse is there with her driver's license, her social security card, cigarette case with cigarettes in it and other personal effects all in her purse. Just her purse. He just took her purse and fucking chucked it in there. a pamphlet full of juarez yeah juarez dental mark yeah the assessor's office thing of her house the printout of her own home just everything is in there with her yeah divorce paperwork everything baby pictures of her kids it's all there little Little footprints they do.

She's got it all. So, yeah, just in case you didn't know it was her, it's probably her. It's definitely her. And next to her, in addition to her purse, was a can of Polar Brand starting fluid, which was also found next to her in the trench. And that was all that was in there. Nothing else. No garbage.

He didn't put... There was no other junk? He didn't put any other shit in there or nothing he put her in and threw a can of starting fluid that's it that i mean if you put other shit on maybe they would hit the other stuff and said oh i guess he did dump junk and given up but nothing there i guess they were looking they were going to dig till they hit garbage yeah why else would he dig a hole and then cover it that makes more sense now yeah kept digging that would make perfect sense so uh yeah he's not too bright with that so polar can brand starter flu a starting fluid and uh now the initial the police initially right away rumors go nuts in this town yeah i mean it is like it's a small town so the word spreads like wildfire and there's rumors and this and that. The rumors are a police spokesman says they at this point, they don't know if she was buried alive or not.

He says it's just a rumor. Eunice is a small town and rumors get started pretty easy. So that's the sheriff saying that they don't know what happened. Is this a rumor or what the fuck is that? There's also the rumor that she was sexually assaulted. Also, that's a rumor. They don't know. Now, they do perform an autopsy here.

And the autopsy, they find that in her breathing pad, Stella's breathing passages were a significant amount of ether like compound ether like. So he said that also the plastic bag had ether in that what lots of traces of ether in the plastic bag and that the polar brand starting fluid they found in the hole contains contains the same chemical kind of ether found in the body the same breakdown he was spraying that into the fucking bag in her face uh well this is crazy uh the only other physical injuries found on her were post-mortem uh inflicted when the backhoe hit her yeah those are the only injuries uh they estimate at the time that she'd probably been there about 12 to 18 hours but they needed to do some more testing they get the uh the cause of death as a combination of chemical and mechanical

asphyxiation wow so uh yeah he says that uh you know the the the theory here is that uh um because of the no physical uh indicators of a struggle nothing like that there's no choking there's no black eye uh the no indication of a struggle either in the house or on her body. So they figure that she must have been incapacitated, bound, something like that, but there's no binding marks on her. So they figured out that this must have happened over a period of time, an extended period of time. They said around midnight, probably, this is the theory of the medical examiner here, that an ether-like substance was polar starting fluid, more than likely, was sprayed into a plastic bag.

So sprayed it all in the plastic bag, then put the plastic bag over her head and held it rather than like a rag like you'd see in a movie uh held it till she's unconscious but still alive now this is uh hours go by they think before he just sits there probably for the night in the night with her in the house oh my god and then sometime in the early morning uh he went and placed her in the trench and it's an eight foot trench still alive you, just unconscious from the ether and then covered her with, you know, seven feet of dirt. Basically, that would just the weight of the dirt eventually suffocated her. Yeah. She just, I mean, in no time flat.

Yeah. And the bag's still on her face. Bag's still on her face too. It wasn't tight. They didn't like tie it off. He just had it on her to get the, so she breathed in the ether and passed out and just put it on her. Cause that's, he put the evidence. That's the bag the starter fluid and the uh and the purse

all in there poof everything goes in the hole cover it up everything's fine just like my garbage gonna walk away from that yeah that is an unbelievable way to kill somebody it's fucked up yeah it's i mean he thought about it but i mean that's the thing he thought about it yeah that he had to he how do you fucking get to? And he said, don't come home tonight to the son. Because I got shit to do. Either I'm going to fuck or kill mom. Either one.

I haven't decided yet how it goes. We'll sit. I guess it's up to her what happens tonight. Huh, son? Wink, wink. Like, what the shit is happening? What a sick bastard. That is a, James, that is a fucking bananas way to kill somebody.

Yeah, that's. I've used starting fluid hundreds of times to like start a car or whatever in the carburetor. Because it acts as gasoline, whatever. Yeah. But it gets on your skin. It will, it fucking burns so bad. Imagine having a bag of that on your face.

Oh my God. Until you're unconscious. I'd rather be maced. That's terrible. It's terrible. And then this is, that's the way to go. I mean, I guess as ways of of dying go being crushed by the dirt. I guess if you're unconscious, it's at least you didn't, you know, you didn't have the

thought process of going through it. But still, that's horrible. At some point, you probably that probably makes you come to. Right. I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't know. I mean, either way, though, there's no she didn't start moving around or thrashing about.

So I don't think so. There's no she didn't start moving around or thrashing about so i don't think so there's no evidence of that she's no like you know digging or or she or she came to when it was far too late she couldn't move either one yeah that's nuts we have no idea either way though yeah the the the last thing she saw was a bag going over her head when she thought she was getting dental work that is unbelievable uh yeah so no lady trucker. Yeah. We've discovered none. None. Not a one except for Peewee. Now, the medical examiner said, quote, at the time of her death, Mrs. Motes had enough ether to be unconscious, he said.

But they didn't know the precise amount. They were still calculating all that. They feel like she'd been dead when the police found her about 12 to 24 hours under the ground there uh this is the first murder in unison 15 years wow so last murder was in 1978 in this town so obviously it's huge fucking news big news and it's not like some oil field guy got drunk and killed another oil field worker this is a family and a couple that they knew this is a this is crazy for la this is a crazy fucking story yeah this is exactly this is a family and a couple that they knew. This is crazy. For L.A., this is a crazy fucking story. Yeah, exactly.

For any sprawling metropolis, this is a banana's way to dispose of somebody. I would say so. So most of the people knew him. The reactions around town are very much shock and horror. One person said here, quote, she was just kind of a quiet lady. She didn't get out much, but the family was known in Eunice because everyone is. But yeah, another person here, the next door neighbor who saw who saw Charles Senior walking around the yard. He said, quote, they just seem like ordinary working people.

They were friendly, but they didn't socialize a lot. This was all a real shock to us. Yeah, that seems normal. They just kept to themselves and they were nice people. They have Stella's funeral on Wednesday. About 75 people attend the funeral here. She had been a member of the First Baptist Church in Eunice from Texas Baptist. See what I mean?

I know my stuff. Where she'd been a member of the choir as well. So she was heavy into church activities. Nice lady. The Reverend Keeney dickinson what uh get get get the uh you know he gave the eulogy here keeney dickinson the good reverend uh he said that uh told the press that the mourners were just everything people were numb the whole thing was numb the whole thing was numbing he said during his eulogy quote you'd expect you'd expect this to happen in albuquerque not eunice no he didn't he actually said that it's a quote in the fucking

newspaper look at that you'd expect this you'd expect this in albuquerque those fucking hoodlums and that's just how you greet newscombers in albuquerque you knock them out with ether hold a plastic bag over their head and try to bury bury them alive. That's how everybody is. It's known as an Albuquerque hello, as a matter of fact. Last I checked, I think, in the Urban Dictionary. What the fuck? He actually said that. Yes, he said that.

It's an Albuquerque hello in the Urban Dictionary. You don't expect that in Albuquerque. You don't expect that anywhere. Anywhere. Nowhere. If someone said, like, our CIA is taking people to turkmenistan and doing that to them i'd say yeah i expect that probably other than that i don't i don't expect that sort of behavior anywhere you expect that if you wrong putin yeah that's it that's it i feel

like they'd even shoot you first fucking make it easy i think i think they'd at least have the courtesy to take a 45 to your skull before they'd fucking bury you alive in a fucking hole. You expect this in Albuquerque? You'd expect this to happen in Albuquerque. Who does he hate in Albuquerque? That's the small towns like, fuck, they're in Albuquerque. This is like, that's what they get to look down on. All those crazy hippie dippies in Albuquerque. You know how it is. You know how it is in Albuquerque this is like that's what they get to look down on all those crazy hippie dippies in

albuquerque you know how it is you know it is in albuquerque it's so wild and woolly is he an asshole like me and he's like you know those native americans up there in albuquerque they're crazy running the guardrails and shit they get drunk running the guardrails and bury their wives alive that's how it works up in up in albuque. We don't have any of them down here. They ain't got none of that in action down here. Oh my God, that is the most amazing sentence ever. I couldn't believe that when I read it. I actually had to find it in like three different sources.

It's an AP article too, and I'm like, it's like the Wire article, and I'm like, this has to be true. But I had to make sure that this newspaper maybe didn't misprint it or something. No, it's real. Unreal. unbelievable honestly i can't believe he said that he gave her an albuquerque hello and we just don't understand that here we are here we are that's that's what happens now everyone stay away from god during the eulogy he said that to mourners i mean no one could expect something like this

tragic to happen to our beloved stella she sang like an angel in our choir you expect this to happen in Albuquerque, boy! Jesus Christ. Oh, good Lord, I can't believe it. Now, some good news, though. In this same newspaper article, I did find that Bob's Western Wear has an entire inventory of straw hats

are reduced by 30%. All right! So, you know... now we have some good news if you're depressed about that in 1993 and you happen to be in albuquerque and without a plastic bag full of ether around your head which would be shocking uh you can protect your head with a straw hat at 30 off maybe that's why they wore those maybe that's it you gotta get an awfully big bag hey now you have to get one of them big big Ikea bags or some shit with one of them, because a regular grocery bag ain't gonna cut it, mister.

One of those big laptop bags from Best Buy. Yeah, not a poop bag for your dog. Nothing like that. Not a shit bag. So, yeah, police look for Charles for a couple days. He took the fuck off. He left. Oh, he left.

This'll get him out of the house. This'll get him going. Yeah, hey, he left now. That's all we needed stella comes back to life finally good god uh jesus christ uh so the police representative here said quote nobody knows which direction he fled he told his family he was going to level land texas and to alamogordo but he hasn't turned up yet so he tells people he's going here he's going there there. He's missing for a couple of days. They'd really like to have a chat with him. Yeah.

Considering all circumstances, obviously it's, you know, it makes sense. They'd want to have a little chat here. Now, a couple of days later, they end up the police in loving in New Mexico,

loving, like you're loving something, loving New Mexico. They get a call from a citizen saying saying hi um my relative here is at my house and he he's saying you guys want to talk to him pretty bad he killed his wife uh or at least you think he did and so he'd like to turn himself in and uh you know he'd like to work that out with you so they end up working out a surrender for him where they come to the house and get him. He surrenders without incident there. And he's arrested, obviously, for...

I just want to have a chat with him. So, mister, where you been? Seen any good movies lately? He's charged with first-degree murder and also evidence tampering for throwing a body in a hole. Putting everything in there. Trying to cover up his crime. Taking all the evidence and tampering like a motherfucker yeah he's doing a lot of tampering the most hateful

man in uh eunice fled to loving that's loving isn't that nice i love that he's loving it yeah so uh one jesus christ they find a witness that that says that the day before the killing, that Saturday, that that person had spoken to Charles Sr. and seen the can of Polar Brand, an exact can of Polar Brand starting fluid in the front seat of Charles' truck that day. So he just bought it. So it wasn't like a thing that was sitting around the garage for 10 years

or some shit like that. He had just had it sitting in his truck, so he you know i was aware it was around we'll put it that way he's a cold motherfucker oh he's a plan and cold it's bad enough you have the house yeah you got a divorce right she whatever she doesn't want to be with you you got to get over that fact you got a fucking house out of it she moved out of state get out of your life dude go out to the one bar in town yeah and find somebody else who's desperate and figure it out i don't fucking know like everybody else does you can't just get some starter fluid in a bag and decide that that's the answer to your problems

that's a cold ass hillbilly yeah i would have never thought my family's pretty white trash i would have never thought to spray starting fluid in a bag and put it over somebody's fucking head that's what i mean that's crazy that's some some weird, like, Japanese mafia hitman shit. Like, some off-country mafia. Not an Italian mafia, like, in the States or anything. I feel like they'd be like, that doesn't make enough of a show. You know what I mean? This is like some Kazuga or Yakuza.

Karuza? Yeah, Yakuza. Yakuza. Yakuza. That's what it is. Or like you said, this is how, like, Putin makes you disappear. Yes. You know what I mean?

To make it look like an accident. I would have never thought to go this route you know and i'm who the fuck ever pretty white trash this is episode 136 has anyone ever thought to go this route yet so far we found a new one everybody i just don't know how we got there when there's no internet no you know what i mean 93 yeah yeah a little bit i think he just said this will fuck you up it's not to do it i think he looked at the ingredients and saw ether and went all right that'll do all right shrug the shoulders this will do it this ought to knock her out or maybe one time he got a like a some of it in his face and said oh shit that's that hurts that'll make you pass out yeah and then went hmm who knows how much of the lot of this i don't know or else there's some network

of weirdos that talk about ways to incapacitate women with plastic bags, which in New Mexico, I'll be honest with you. I'm not going to. That's possible. If you told me this shit happened and then said, guess the state that I might. This will be top five toy box killers from New Mexico. Would you ever think any of the shit he did either? No, it's radiation.

That's what it is. It's worse. It's the whole fucking state. We don't want it anymore. It's radiation. That's what it is. It's worse. It's the whole fucking state. We don't want it anymore. Give it back. Just be. Kept them alive, feeding them tuna fish sandwiches. Just be also Mexico.

Yeah. Just be that. Not new, also. And old. And old. New and old. Yay. Look at it all.

We are just Mexico. We bring chilies to the table. So, yeah. Mexico we bring chilies to the table so uh yeah so he they talk at the trial obviously about the motive he had for killing his wife his wife left him he didn't want to fucking divorce and she left and you know the whole deal so that's motive they say there's no real financial motive there's no insurance there's no anything like that motive is just anger uh which is motive is getting even getting even which is a tough sell to a jury.

You know what I mean? Based on because all they have is circum. This is a circumstantial case. That's a good point. They have no fingerprints. What is he getting even for? He has the house. He has the house.

That's what I mean. He has the house. There's no there's no physical evidence of this. There's no you know, it's not like a bunch of her blood is on his clothes or something like none of that is happening he might do it too this is way less evidence than they had on oj i mean like by a mile less evidence they had on oj so i mean he's just like you know what i'm gonna play this like i don't know what you're talking about yeah that's what he's doing here uh so yeah they say that he's upset about it they say that there was a tension uh i i guess

they talk the only thing that really screwed him is the daughter testifies saying that two weeks earlier while there was tension in dividing up their assets like furniture and shit like that marital crap while there was tension that was the day he said i should have just put her in the hole i wouldn't have to give her anything so that was only two weeks before that and the hole was there and then she's in the hole right it's a lot of circumstantial and no one else has any reason to kill eunice or to know she's even there and also he's there he was there also so why would they break in kill eunice and leave him alone yeah so i mean it's a weird it's a weird uh thing to try to say not guilty to It's a strange case to have a defense for. But his defense is, I'm not saying fucking word.

No defense. That's his defense. His defense is once the prosecution's done, he asks for a directed verdict, which means I will not present an ounce of evidence. I'm not even going to present a case. Nothing. I'll present shit a directed verdict is uh uh basically it's he argues that there's insufficient proof that the prosecutor offered they just did their whole case and that was not sufficient proof of that's not sufficient proof of murder and i don't even

have to present a case you can call it you can you can call it not guilty right now he's treating it like a mature adult saying i'm not even going gonna dignify this with a response that's what it is that's exactly what it is and he goes judge tell them tell them they have how ridiculous they're being maybe makes a face like see look i mean right and the judge said what are you fucking kidding me directed for you want a verdict oh boy oh i'll give you a verdict if you want a verdict motherfucker you haven't said shit you didn't explain anything right what your lawyer went up cross-examined did you see them with the starter fluid yes did you really yes i did all right then that's no further question there's nothing else you can say yeah you go up and call his daughter a liar he didn't say he wanted to put his your mother in the hole yes he did all right then there's no what reason does

she have to lie you know what i mean it's like it's ridiculous what reasons was she going to lie to frame her dad that makes no sense it was her that did it the whole time it was suan it's ridiculous the whole thing's ridiculous so a direct directed verdict legally is a ruling entered by a trial judge after determining that there's no legally sufficient evidentiary basis for a reasonable jury to reach a different conclusion. So it's the judge just circumventing the jury and just going, there's not even enough for you guys to even talk about. I am going to say right now that we don't even want to take the chance of this going to you guys because it's bullshit.

It's a judge going, no, no, no, no, no. I got this one. Dude, that's fucked. Did they say, what did they say about you, bro? That's fucked up, man. No, you know what? No, he's cool. He they say, what did they say about you, bro? That's fucked up, man. No, you know what? No, he's cool. He's fucking cool.

And then taking him out of the club, taking him out of the courtroom. That's the equivalent of that. Like with his arm around him. He's cool. Like, don't sweat it. So trial court can either grant a directed verdict upon a motion by either party. He can rule on it. A directed verdict might be granted at any time.

But yeah, it's usually after the prosecution. It's a grandstanding measure, basically. Like, they obviously have nothing. It looks good to the jury that you tried. You know what I mean? I want to know how many people have won on that before. It can't be a lot, right? Probably not, because any evidence at all is enough evidence to at least go to a jury.

And for you to be indicted on a murder charge, you to do something right the da assumes there's enough that little nugget of an indictment of just the circumstantial is enough to go to a jury with because that's otherwise it wouldn't be that's why they have indictments that's the judge stepping in and going the indictment process doesn't work uh you know what i mean they fucked up they didn't have enough evidence and they did so he's not only circumventing the uh jury then he's overruling the grand jury. So this is a very, you know, you really got to have nothing. Like, nothing at all. Like, well, they both live in New Mexico, Your Honor.

Okay, anything else? That's about all we got. We don't know if they were ever in the same, but they both reside in the state of New Mexico. I think I rest my case. They do, like, a directed verdict now. Your Honor, we have a proof of both of them possess New Mexico driver's license on your word, sir.

Let's go. Can we lock him up, please? Defense, what do you got? Nothing? That's right. All right, so we'll just be wrapping this up. Can we just throw the key away now? 99% conviction rate. Perfect. We'll make a commercial for real. It's got to be something much... It's not happening

no i'll bet i'll bet nobody has ever beat it i'll bet nobody i mean it's it's a it's a weird move to make you really have to it's not it's not ballsy to just go to give it a shot i guess no i mean to give it a shot because the judge just says no on On first degree murder, that's balls. Well, the judge isn't going to rule against him as far as the judge just doesn't say, okay, you're guilty. The judge says, no, you're going to jury. That's what that is. Oh, that's all that is?

Yeah, yeah. He says, no, no, no. I'm not giving you a directed verdict. You can go fuck yourself. Okay, got it. Yeah, because he requested directed verdict and he said no. Directed verdict is only not guilty? I believe it's only to dismiss.

You have to get a not guilty charge going. And I don't know if that's a not guilty or a dismissal, which makes a big difference in terms of reintroducing charges. So that's I'm not sure about either because I'm not a lawyer. But that's as much as I could glean from looking that up and then reading many, many documents and trying to figure it out. And I spent like an hour on that. That's really annoying it's still a ballsy risk just saying it's just very cocky yeah it's just very cocky clearly they have nothing no they got something there's enough uh january 6 1994 there's that

something is a verdict here uh he is found guilty of murder first degree murder and tampering with evidence here because there's really nothing else that could have happened. No. The way they're looking at it and the starter fluid, the starting fluid. I mean, it's not the most evidentiary evidentiary strong case, but I mean, it's it's pretty it's pretty clear what everything she owns is in that. And I mean, what she came with is in the hole with her.

Yeah. And the fucking way she with is in the hole with her. Yeah. And the fucking way she died is in the hole with her. That's right. If he had something, if he had an alternate, at least OJ said I was in the shower. You know what I'm saying? At least OJ said I was chipping golf balls and I was in the shower. Like OJ had like places he was where he could say like, I didn't do that. I did this.

He's got nothing. And he, the one thing that he definitely has is uh the fucking tools to bury it that's the other thing yeah the whole thing doesn't look good for him so it's like he was digging and he has no defense right so what do you want literally nobody else was digging no one else just him so and his kids are the ones saying he was doing it so it's the other thing it's like they're not like just strange these are his children they're not gonna lie about him probably i don't know you know wow they'd have to be real how much of a dick was he ha ha dad gotcha the shit what a great joke so the sentencing comes around here and uh yeah he he doesn't really present much of a of a fight there

because his whole thing is doesn't matter what you sentence me to because this is bullshit anyway and it's going to get thrown out. So you do whatever you want is his basic stance on the whole thing. So they say, all right, you like that? You, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole then. Enjoy. Enjoy growing elderly in prison. I hear it's real easy for you as you get older in there.

Guys are real nice to you. They treat you better. You know, give you a wider berth. Make sure you don't hurt yourself. You know, it's great. Unbelievable. They never beat you up and steal everything and do anything they want to you or anything like that. That never happens in jail when you're in your fucking 70s.

Wow. So, yeah. He obviously appeals this decision yeah how the hell do you not appeal this but i wish i could have been in in the room for anything that he filed with the cocky arrogance that he's got i'm gonna appeal that i'm gonna go out and appeal this so i'm gonna go home now is that what i do yeah that's and the other thing this is the the best part he's appealing this is i get that it's legal but logically it's hilarious he's and the other thing. This is the best part. He's appealing. This is I get that it's legal, but logically it's hilarious. He's appealing the murder conviction, but not the evidence tampering conviction.

So by his logic, he's saying that he just found her already dead from ether suffocation and then just fucking pushed her in the dirt just because, you know, so he didn't get in trouble clutter. He doesn't like clutter. Generally, he's going for that. just fucking pushed her in the dirt just because you know so he didn't get in trouble clutter he doesn't like clutter generally he's going for that he's been listening to that asian lady who's telling you to stop having shit in your house and then he just said you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna not do this anymore this is but that's that's his logical legal case i get that the legalities aren't that but in logic that's what you're saying if you're not saying.

I can see if he said, I didn't do anything. I don't know what you're talking about. I went to the store for an hour. I came back. She was gone. I figured she was with a lady trucker. And then turns out somebody threw her in a hole in my yard. That would make more sense than that, than what he's saying now.

But no. Even if he put shit on top of her, he could have said, I didn't see her down there. I just threw stuff there. I saw a hole. I was tossing stuff in it you know i'm good at basketball i don't know it all went in there and then i fucking covered it up i didn't see her at the most uh uh convicting and incriminating is i buried her because you know the judge you guys were going to be looking at me i saw her fucking husband shit this looks bad this is to look like I did this. I'm in her house. Yeah. I'm her husband. We've been fighting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to do something. I got, okay, hold on. She was out back huffing. What do I do? She huffed. Did I mention she huffed starting food? Did I mention that?

She does it all the time. It's a common thing. All the time. It's super weird. She does it with a plastic bag, which I don't usually normally see. I've seen people huff with a paper bag, but I've never really seen a plastic bag. She really gets into it. And rather than putting it by her mouth, she just puts it over her head and ties the loops around her ears,

which is really... She goes like a feed bag. That's what it is, basically. She's got the loops around her ears. She's really going after it. She oftentimes tells me, I'm going out to have my oats. I'm going out to have my oats. I'm having my oats. I'm going out to have my oats. I'm having my oats.

She's really into the ether. I'll tell you that much right now. Ether oats. He's got no story is the point. That's the problem. He's got no excuse. He's got no story. That's his story.

He might as well get the guy from Virginia last week week and go a fucking black guy was already killing her when i walked in a black guy had a bag around her head i said hey you get out of here mister and he did but she was already dead so i just pushed her in the hole because i thought they'd think it was me right i couldn't catch him you know them blacks are you know what i mean they're real fast i don't know what the fuck i'm doing couldn't have her kids find out there was a black guy feeding her a rope that's what i mean yeah like same thing from last her daughter would have just been crushed she knew that her last oats came from a black man it would have never been okay but that's what's going on here that's his logic so wow jesus christ what the hell is happening jesus so on appeal here they're addressing whether there's sufficient

evidence obviously to have convicted him of deliberate intent murder and that's the thing here because the first degree is deliberate intentional this isn't nothing accidental about it premeditated premeditated the whole deal and uh he says that the the evidence is insufficient to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he acted with deliberate intent in the death. That's what I mean. So he's just saying, hey, you know, sometimes ether gets on your head and you fall in a hole. That's his whole deal here. They said that the prosecution said there's sufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he acted with deliberate intent.

He argues that the state's evidence of intent related primarily to the passage of enough time to allow him to form deliberate intent. Basically, their case, in his mind, he's saying their case rests on the fact that they said, I ethered her up around midnight and then waited a few hours and then dumped her in a hole and killed her. So that gives me time to form the intent to kill her because she wasn't dead yet from the ether. That's the basic legal logic here. And he says that the evidence alone is not sufficient and all that sort of shit here.

So he cites a case that says that only shows an opportunity to form deliberate intent or evidence of actions to conceal identity after a killing is insufficient to prove deliberate intent. Yeah. So just acts of cover up the seeming cover up doesn't prove that's the new that's the law doesn't prove intent basically. But it all it does prove I think it proves premeditation. They're saying it's not enough it has to be with everything else and kind of in preponderance doesn't prove intent it just proves that you fucking did it and you covered it up that's that's the problem here and covering it

up is way worse than having just the intent and killing somebody that's the thing yeah the cover up is what makes you look like a scumbag yeah it makes you look way worse killing is bad too that happens every but there has to be a death before a cover-up but i mean but i mean a hit man that kills like really bad people yeah he had intent he killed him and then he just fucking walked away you know what i mean but yeah a scumbag that just kills his wife and then puts her in a fucking hole in his back that's worse that's what's the worst person and that's the thing the cover-up is what makes it worse because anybody not anybody i mean but you can relate to somebody possibly snapping yeah and killing someone by accident not meaning to do it

or meaning to for two seconds and then going holy shit i mean obviously you're not going to do that it's that's but i mean you could see it happening yeah you could definitely see it happening especially if it's a a couple you think there's passionate fights and absolutely someone could just do something stupid for two seconds and that's all it would take that's it and then it's the point of what did you do then then what did you do then did you call the police and be like i can't believe i just did this it's an oh my god it was an accident i'm a blah blah blah blah well yeah that might be manslaughter or did you get a backhoe and bury her in the fucking backyard you fucking have a starter fluid can starting fluid can before and and have a hold a trench pre-dug already unbelievable so

yeah they talk about the fact that it is circumstantial this is a circumstantial case and they talk about uh uh basically they're trying to figure out the intent of the whole thing whether it's uh whether it was a circumstantial thing or whatever. They said the way they apply the standard, quote, court must view the evidence in a light most favorable to the state, resolving all conflicts there and indulging permissible inferences there. They're from in favor of the verdict. That's how that works here. So they said the relevant question is, after viewing the evidence in light of most favorable

to the prosecution, any rational trier of fact could have found essential elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. That's what this has to be anyway, for them to find him guilty. Now, they said that this standard does not involve substituting the appellate, the guy here, Charles appellate,

or I'm sorry, the appellate court's judgment for that of the jury in deciding the reasonable doubt question. You can't't you don't go to the the problem is the sufficient insufficiency of evidence you bought when you call that as an appeal you're bordering on retrying the case is basically what they're doing and all these appellate courts whenever it's insufficiency of evidence unless it's like they didn't have anything at all the it's always like well there was enough evidence for the jury it's not our job to

relitigate the case if the jury said it was unless there was some deliberate uh you know malfeasance on the prosecution's part if he lied about a piece of evidence or something like that just to go before them and retry it isn't what the appellate court is for so they say that kind of constantly here uh so yeah they say that appellate court is for so they say that kind of constantly here uh so yeah they say that appellate court scrutiny of the evidence and the jury's fact-finding function to ensure that indeed a rational jury could have found beyond a reasonable doubt the essential facts required for conviction uh they said intent is subjective and is all able it is intent is an opinion yeah you can't you can't know what's in somebody's mind so it's an opinion based on evidence if you did a b and then c happened you probably planned c because you did a and b right you know

if c didn't happen and you did a and b then it's fine but if c is the problem and then once a and b are tied in what you're really fucked so that's that's how it works so they say it's subjective and almost always inferred from other facts in the case. So they said it's not established by direct evidence. And that's what he's saying is the evidence was insufficient to establish intent. No, not to establish murder, to establish intent of first degree murder. That's his whole thing here. So they say when viewed as a whole, the facts surrounding the death is replete with evidence that demonstrates that he acted with deliberate intent. They said it indicates that just two weeks before Stella was found buried in a trench in his backyard, he told his daughter that he, quote, should have put Stella in the hole, which is bad, and gestured to the trash trench in the backyard.

They said he expected his wife to arrive at the house that evening. He instructed his son not to come home to find another place to sleep. My Christ, that's the backyard. They said he expected his wife to arrive at the house that evening. He instructed his son not to come home to find another place to sleep. My Christ, that's the part. That's the part. That's the part right there, to clear him out. Yeah. It's all bad. Individually, none of these things are bad.

Right. If it was just one of any of these things, it's so circumstantial that you can't convict a guy. But you throw a couple of these together and put it on with a dead body all of a sudden you got a reason and somebody that for sure wanted her dead can of starter fluid in the truck yep uh charles has to leave for the evening telling the daughter uh the trench story yeah uh that those three things individually nothing fine yeah together a b and c a b and c there you go pythagorean theorem right there to the to the max a squared plus b squared most certainly equals z squared so yeah uh they

said so uh yeah there was that part he instructed his son not to come home he said at midnight they go over the lady trucker story which makes me laugh with a quote lady trucker i love seeing that in state court documents quote i love it's in quotes too that makes me laugh is he's such a such an asshole that he just tried to find like the most intimidating lesbian that he yeah i think that he was like your fucking mom's licking box now i think that's what he was trying to do she's in a truck stop scissoring in arizona you know how it is she's fucking just scissoring on the fork they're going to the four corners they say to scissor on all four of them that's what they say i don't know one leg in each fucking state that's how they're gonna do it

they drew up a diagram it was on the fridge for a while i took it down it was gross though it was disgusting neither one of them can draw so it's weird that's what it is though with the lady trucker. Yeah. I think so, too. She's a lesbian now. That's exactly what I think. He's trying to make her sound...

Right. Make the kids hate her for what she did to him, too. I'm a nice guy, and I'm normally... Your mom's off with lady truckers touring the Southwest. Touring the Southwest's breakfast nooks. Scissor boxing all over the place. I don't know. Yeah. Scissor boxing all over. I don't know. Yeah.

Scissor in all four corners. I don't know what to say. So good. Yeah. So they go over the fact that he lied about, he lied that he was on the phone with her at the truck stop. That's the other thing. Saying she's eating breakfast currently with a lady trucker.

Why would you do that if you didn't kill her? You know what I mean? Things like that. That doesn't show intent, but it definitely shows the cover-up it shows the cover-up which all it's all it's a cumulative thing here in the trial it's not so cumulative the jury can pick and choose but in the appellate court it's all the the accumulation of evidence it's not they don't go well that one thing means that's reasonable doubt for me that's for a jury. Then the whole thing has to be in there. So, yeah, they said that he contacted her, contacted her, you know, leaving her car with him.

So her car was still there. They said that he left. Jesus Christ. She left with her personal effects, which were actually buried there. So that's a lie. She said she had her purse and shit with her, and it's another intentional lie. They say,

even more telling, however, is the method in which Motes was killed. There was no evidence of any physical markings on the body to indicate she struggled with or was bound by her killer before death. The evidence indicates the killing was over an extended period of time uh so that's they talk about the the exact the ether and all that sort of thing they said even it's important

to note that even if appellant the appellant had not intended to kill his ex-wife before he rendered her unconscious he may have formed the intent just prior to play placing her in the trench and burying her as evidenced by the fact that she was buried alive. However, this determination was for the jury. But they're just saying, but they also got it right, because that's the fact, that's the intent. Say it, at some time, whether he could have put it over her head as a fun game, and then he was going to wake her up later on.

But at some point, before he did it and dirt and before she hit the ground he decided to push her in a trench and kill her yeah so at that point it's pretty fucking deliberate he certainly did not put her in the trench to keep her alive no no and it's it's really hard to say i carried her outside and dumped her in an eight foot hole in the ground by accident that's why you know that's not an accidental thing so uh yeah they said also the evidence uh that he possessed the means to render her unconscious, which is the starter fluid that they saw in the truck. They talked about the chemical breakdown again of the starter fluid, the whole deal.

There's also evidence of a tense day after dividing the property and Sue Ann, everything. Bottom line is each component of evidence viewed alone may not be enough to conclude that the appellant acted with requisite state of mind. However, viewed as a whole, the evidence is overwhelming, they say, which it is.

Like we said, each individual piece doesn't mean shit. As such, the verdict was not based on the mere perception that he only had the opportunity to form deliberate intent.

Instead, the verdict was based on evidence that he, in fact, carefully and deliberately planned, executed, and concealed a most heinous deed. The judgment of the trial court is affirmed. You, sir, keep on fucking off. So eat shit.

I love that they called him heinous for his deed. Heinous in a court document. That's bad. When they say your evidence of your heinous deed is overwhelming. That sucks. You are in deep shit. So he is in deep shit. Actually, he is still alive.

Charles, actually. Wow. He's still alive. He's 77 years old. You're goddamn right. He is 77 years old. He's in prison in New Mexico. You should.

He looks like Mr. Magoo. Really? His fucking prison 26 years in this motherfucker oh yeah i i have his prison picture in fact i'll post his prison picture along with this on social media because he looks like mr magoo wow he is looks like he's 110 a tiny man he's 5'4 and he is gray bald his face is drawn he just looks like a he looks like a his eyes are like saggy like mr mcgoo yeah he looks just like mr mcgoo i'll bet he doesn't make 80 he could do live action mr mcgoo he looks terrible i don't know he could have looked terrible forever we don't know what

he looked like he may look like that at 35 that's what i'm saying but he's in there he looks terrible he's only 5'4 and it's weird in prison they have all of the charges, height, weight, blue, hair color, eye color, all that shit. The whole thing. They have religion on there also. What? Not shitting you. His religion is listed as holiness.

What? What the fuck is that? I don't mean to make fun of anybody's- Is it his holiness? I don't know what he's into. Maybe he's the holiness. I feel like he made up a religion yeah and was like see you want to talk deliberate this is deliberate right here fucking religion i made up it's a good

one too the holiness the whole the whole it's just called the holiness not even the holiness just holiness is his religion i don't know what that is i don't know when he dies do they give him last rights yeah do they just throw him in a hole they'll tell you that's what it's a religion based on burying people in deep trenches with starter fluid next to them i feel like right that's what it is fucking possibly unbelievable oh my goodness god so there we go that is uh where are we here unis unis new mexico good lord boy i almost said Eunice, Virginia. And I'm like, that was last week. We are not in Virginia anymore.

Eunice, because that was Edinburgh, to ease. Eunice, West Virginia. And that is Charles and Stella Motes. What the fuck, man? What a terrible story that is there. And it's one of those where it's not like... There's not too much... It was such a weird story.

What bothers me most is that there's no fucking reason. There's none. You know what I mean? He's just a little pissy. Right. It's not even like some creep that's into kids. No. That's horrible, too, obviously.

It's not like she was going to turn him in because he's fiddling the grandkids or anything. No, nothing. He just chose to murder his ex-wife. It was over. She moved away. She literally didn't have to deal with each other anymore except to go to a dental appointment that makes none of it makes any sense it's crazy and that was his best defense was why would i do this this makes no sense that but but you did it but you did it's the problem that's fucking unbelievable yeah i feel like that's why he didn't present a defense

is because that's his only defense why would i do do this? We don't know either, dude. We don't know either, but you fucking did, stupid. We don't have to solve why. Tell you what. We're going to go ahead. You know what the thing is. We're not sure. So this is how we're going to find out. We're going to go ahead and put you in a tiny cage for a while.

Say forever. And then we'll just pick on it as we go. Just a little here and a little there. And if it comes together, great. And if you croak first croak first that's fine too we don't really give a fuck but that's how we're gonna work this out asshole how's that sound wow man that is a really fucked story it's a fucking weird story it comes me out that he got nothing out of it you know he wasn't even trying to get anything out of it that's the thing at least have a no benefit at least when somebody senselessly kills a convenience store clerk at least the goal was a few dollars something he had the house he

was mad because two weeks ago they were arguing about splitting up their possessions who cares give her the fucking coffee table what do you care honestly you never liked it anyway she picked it out you lived with it now let her have it who gives a shit when you get be thankful you're dry you fuck that's dude when you get divorced give them whatever the fuck they want yeah save yourself because even whether no matter which side of the coin that's what i mean doesn't matter save you and i don't i'm not saying this for anybody's right or anybody's wrong you could be 100 in the right it's not worth the fight no because whether you fight over all your shit or not you're still going to have a weird relationship yeah forever but this is going to make it worse and it's going to make it so much

more stressful the whole situation i mean if you have kids because if you don't have kids you don't have to fucking you don't have to say yep yep take whatever you want see you later if you have kids i mean obviously fight to see your kids don't give them that don't say oh i'm not allowed to see my kids ever fine don't do that fight to see your kids but other than that throw your shit in a laundry basket and get the fuck out cares start over with the clothes on your back and a goddamn air mattress with a hole in it like i did and fucking start over because that's what i did sleep on some carpet that's what i did that's what i sleep on some carpet until casper mattresses throws that's right that's right yeah when we got our first mattress sponsor that was really needed because i had a goddamn air mattress on

the floor that had a hole in it so trust me best goddamn day ever jimmy we're getting casper yeah high five i'm telling you man but that's it. Just who cares? Don't fight. Don't do it. For both sides. Don't get murdered. Don't beat. Don't murder.

Just fucking Jesus Christ. For you, them, and your goddamn children. It's almost like the end of a marriage should be like the end of a boxing match when a bunch of other people come into the ring, get between them, both of their teams. There's judges and referees, a guy with a camera and a mic just everybody split them the fuck up man because they shouldn't be near each other they've been fighting weird stuff could happen they took their gloves off now if one of them hits each other it's a dangerous clifford etienne situation we could have a lot of yeah who was the guy we did was that etienne i thought yeah i think it was etienne that hit zab judah

yeah after the bell i think so it wasn't no no because that hit somebody else too yeah yeah he's a lighter weight right you got to on doing it so that's 250 he's not known as the black rhino you know what I'm hitting you with no gloves when you're not

expecting it that'll kill it's a big dude so yeah that is that thank you guys every much very much for listening if you have not yet please get on Apple podcast there give us five stars doesn't matter what you say say you're following instructions following directions we don't care uh it's not for our for

our you know our health our egos it's just for business purposes it helps drive us up the charts and the business of podcasts are based on that uh they people it's so weird man in this business people put you places based on your chart position they you know that's how people work cross promos based on your chart position sponsors based on it it's crazy and uh one thing i will say that we do and this is why i'm going to say uh this is why i don't mind that we take patreon stuff honestly i think we work our balls off number one people people want to throw if it's a free show if they want to throw a tip on the whatever that's fine too but this fucking i don't even know how to explain this i don't want to say this the wrong way you mean like my

guardrail explanation yeah exactly well i don't want to sound i'm so grateful and i'm trying to say how grateful that i am that i i can't i don't want to get it out and have it not sound as well as i want it to sound well i don't want to sound as good as i as i had it locked and loaded in my head as like this this gushing thing but like i i don't know i'm just not good at that point is just that we don't we aren't we're where we are because of them and they did this for us and gave us what we have that's what i'm saying that's really what what I mean. And just thank you guys for everything you do for us. That shit really means the world to us. And it means

a lot that you guys are willing to just part with anything that you don't have to for us. Because no one does that. That means the world. We really honestly take that to heart and we feel that shit. Not just in our wallets, but in a whatever in our brains and in our souls, honestly.

In my stomach when I fucking eat. Yeah, and we feel that. And we do things, we try to, like, they come to us with all sorts of products to sponsor. We turn down most of them. Honestly, guys, you'll hear us. We'll have like three ads on a small town murder. Find another show in our chart position. See how many ads they have.

Guarantee you it's a lot more than ours. And a shorter show. And they're making so much more money off of that but we don't we won't do anything a that we think is stupid yep we won't do like the squatty potty or whatever i mean i'm sure that's a fine product but i'm not going to sit here and talk about that yeah that's stupid and on second two we're not going to do things that we don't think you'll like. That's the thing. We literally take things that we think our audience might be interested in. Because if you have to sit there for a minute and a half even as we talk about it, we don't want you to have no interest in it whatsoever. If it's something like that, we don't just go, fuck it, it's money. We'll say their shit for a minute.

We don't want to bombard you for one minute with that shit. So thank you. You guys make the fact that you donate and stuff to us that makes it gives us the opportunity that makes it possible to say you know what our audience wouldn't like it so we don't want it that means we're beholden to you right and not them and there's a lot of shows that are beholden to their sponsors they're beholden to their networks they're beholden to everybody like that we just say this is what our audience likes, whether it be content, whether it be sponsors. That's all we want to give them, what they like.

And that's it. So that said, follow us on social media. We're at Murder Small on Twitter. We're at Small Town Pod on Facebook, at Small Town Murder on Instagram. You can donate to the show like we were just talking about there you can do that very easily by going to shut up and give me murder.com and uh get the link right over to patreon.com slash crime in sports or head over to paypal use our email address crime and sports at gmail.com and you should definitely be listening to crime and sports if you're not i don't know what the hell you're doing you're missing out because it's because it's been wild over there on that side. We've been doing that shit for three years and having the most fun.

It's insane. It's so crazy. So check that out. Also, shut up and give me murder.com. Live shows. Tomorrow night, we're in San Diego. Saturday night, we are in L.A. Few tickets left for L.A.

San Diego sold out. End of the month, we were in Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta. Atlanta, three out of four days there. So come see us there. Still tickets left in philly i know there is like 40 tickets left in houston yeah so get those tickets in houston dallas is sold out i know uh milwaukee they're they're gonna release 20 tickets i swear to god this week milwaukee's been sold out yeah they have they gave us 25 comps right for us for me like we know 25 people you know 12 and a half people because i don't know 12 and i don't

know half a person that lives in milwaukee no offense to milwaukee i just don't know anyone that lives there and especially that would be there in december so you know what i'm saying anybody with any sense has fled so uh i don't know anybody so they're gonna we're coming and then we're coming so they're gonna release those. So they're going to release those to sell. So this week there will be, at some point, check on it. I don't know. There will be about 25 extra tickets. Chicago's almost sold out, guys, and it's in December.

So I'm tripped out about that, too. It's a big venue, and we're real proud of that. So thank you guys for what you've done for us, everything you've done for us, all of your support. Even if it's just telling someone, hey, this show's good, you should listen to it. I love that, too. You have no idea how much that helps, because there's a lot of you, and if all of you tell a few people,

there's going to be a lot more listeners. And so thank you for everything like that. And matter of fact, I think we should thank the people who count most to us, our patrons, our Patreon, PayPal people who keep this show afloat. Jimmy, I'd like you to hit me with them like seven feet of dirt. This week's executive producers are Yeehaw, I guess. Woo-hoo!

Bang, bang. Pew, pew. Ellie Comac. She's in Houston. She's going to come to the show. Can't wait to see you, Ellie. Wow. Thank you.

Shawna, Tommy Craig, Chrissy Ann Costaldi, and Taylor Seaman. Ugh. I'm so sorry, Taylor. Sorry, Taylor. You're not an ick, Taylor.aman. I'm so sorry. Sorry, Taylor. You're not an ick, Taylor. You're anything but ick. I was excited because I recognized what I wrote. And then I was like, Seaman's not what I want to shout.

Thank you, Taylor. God damn it. Okay, Miranda Hurt, Heather Cotton. Hold on, quick, quick. Before you go on, I just have to say, you guys are so fucking awesome. You know what I got this week, Jimmy? What'd you do? I got health insurance.

Yeah. I can get sick and go to the doctor and I won't die now. All right. So that is because of you guys. As you know, that was my goal from the... Thank you guys so much for making that a reality. We both got health insurance. Sarah and I both have it now and we're so excited.

You have a laminated card with your name on it. I can name on it where I can literally go to the doctor now and it's like, it's good because I work like 80 hours a week.

I should probably have some kind of health insurance. Unbelievable. You guys gave James a life and a career. Thank you guys so fucking much for everything. And now you're going to have

this show because if he gets sick he gets penicillin. It's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Don't keep donating. Don't stop donating, though, because I have to pay the premiums.

But thank you for helping it make a reality. And also the copay. And also the copay. So thank you. And prescriptions aren't free. It's very expensive. I don't want you to have to fly to fucking South America and smuggle the shit back. It's cheaper. So thank you, you guys. Other producers this week. I'll start over.

Miranda Hurt, Heather Cotton, Courtney Kurtz. Is that Kurtz? Yes. Courtney Kurtz. Yeah. Keon Butler, Sarah Alvarado, Steph Murphy, Nick Collins, Yuval Dom, Megan Black, Lydia Bohuis, I think, Conchata Rowe, Shanna Colbert, Casey. No, Cassie. Cassie Red Rowe. Shanna Colbert. Casey. No, Cassie.

Cassie Redis. Michaela Amundson. Megan Farrell. Denise Anderson. Jeff Millick. Susan Phillips. Tammy Stuver. Yes.

Richard Lott. That's, yeah, that's right. Richard Lott. Dick Lott. Dick Lott. Jeff Maynor. Colleen Christian. Sarah Weyerle.

These are the most difficult stumblers this week. Molly Leas, I think. Hillary Brown. Julia Fuentes. Amanda Rafferty. Yeah. Denise Urbane. Buttney.

Is that Buttney? Is that for real? Buttney? Or is that Brittany? What did I do? It's Buttney Rocks. Buttney Cox. All right.

I see. That's why you dids. Butney Cox. All right. I see. There you go. That's why you did it. Butney Cox. I understand. Sean Green. Is that right? Breen.

Sean Breen. Brandy Felt Castellano. Michael Given. Greg Briggs. Lynn Villarreal. Amanda Shoemaker. Katie Peters. Liz Cooper.

Natasha Fellow. Zach Villanova. Holly Figueroa O'Reilly. Thank you very much, specifically. That lady has like 300,000 Twitter followers. Wow. And she follows us and then donated to us. Thank you so much.

Appreciate you. Thank you so much. Dan Wondorowski, Woodrasca. Emma with no last name. Jacinta McCauley, Heather Stoud. Shani-Ann Deistja Dutton i think or so oh yeah yeah that's right uh jess jess lynn terry uh lindsey fields evan evan mullen uh austin why am i doing this to myself austin klemer rochelle singh uh norman sather jg houston mayla malia malia kirk emily giles or gills norman sather i said that

kyler kyler stopman she she chayi i don't it's chey and then a shitload of e's so thank you uh park gary uh courtney holt skip skip bayless not the real one for sure uh i don't want your money sam landis tisha or tasha uh julia pl pael uh cassidy hall noah gilbo molly whitaker no whitmer uh emma carver andrew bishop kate milton uh carl caroline caroline aiken i uh aisha uh ryan lennox uh sean and sarahden, Tobbs Laskawa. Damn it. I'm a really bad reader. Samantha with no last name. Louis V25.

Louis V25. Oh, that's like fucking the drink, right? It's Louis XV. Oh, yeah, you're right. Expensive shit. I'm fucking stupid. You know what? Louis V25 would be Louis XV, right? Louis V25.

That'd be five plus 25. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not five before 20 v 25 would be louis the 15th right louis v 25 that'd be 5 plus 25 oh yeah 30 not 5 before 20 that would be 20 either way either way either way i'm an idiot we're going long i'm trying so hard to decipher that into something that i can understand elisa joles or elisa elisa joles uh kendall lamp here uh lin lin van hoese i think house hoose lynn van hoese one of those jordan yancey brandon shaw christine fritzmeyer uh lauren and brandon bice nicole loader uh adam hughes kayla herndon lisa taran uh and then the home stretch i've got this i'm sure of it no brook dover and her brother ben i imagine daniel Daniel Belusi. Ariya Tasher. Ron Sutton Jr. And he emphasized the junior.

Lex Furist or Forst. Adam Christopher Wiley. Anthony Canella. Jesse Hartman. That's Jess Hartman. Jesse, yeah, that's Jesse again. Clay Thorson. Thanks again, my man.

James Marder. Justin Miller. Thank you, Justin. Ashley Veo. Peyton Meadows. Jason Fuller. Gary Howard. Thank you guys very much. Stephanie Jones. Jordan Bennett. Again, thank you, Jordan. Rachel you, Justin. Ashley Veo. Peyton Meadows. Jason Fuller. Gary Howard. Thank you guys very much.

Stephanie Jones. Jordan Bennett. Again, thank you, Jordan. Rachel Kaskaden. Rachel Love. Yes, that's two Rachels in a row. I was not wrong. Brianna Blankenship.

Amanda Stanford. Crystal Walker. Callie Shinkunas. Thank you, Callie. I'm trying so hard to get these words out. These words are a mother fucker. They're tough. They're tough words.

Trey Valkenar. Robin Anderson, Ronnie Kumar, and Amanda Horn, thank you all so much. And all of our Patreon supporters, you guys make this all worth it. Thank you so much, everybody. Honestly, for everything you do for us, we're just blown away by all of your support, whether it's coming out to live shows, Patreon, or just listening. Thank you guys so much. What if they wanted to thank you personally, Jimmy? How could they do so?

You can find me at WismanSucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks, on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. And Sam Cook. Damn it, I missed it. Sam Cook, her mother passed away, and she is having a birthday on Saturday. It was her first birthday without her mother.

Oh, no. I'm very sorry, Sam, but her friend wanted us to tell her happy birthday. And I don't know if fucking try hard to celebrate. I don't know. I don't know. What do you say to I feel so terrible. I am.

Sam, keep your head up. Keep your head up. And I'm so happy that I let you finish that sentence because we were talking about Bill Withers and you said Sam Cooke. So I said another Saturday night. I almost started and you said Sam Cooke. So I said, another Saturday night. I almost started singing a festive. Sam Cooke song? Sam Cooke song.

Unbelievable. I don't mean to be an A student. I almost started singing. Maybe we can call. Sorry, Sam. I'll get her number. We can call her and sing a Sam Cooke song. We apologize.

I apologize for being an idiot. Jesus Christ. I just have the musical taste of a 60-year-old black woman. That's just how I am. Sorry. And there's also a gay man named Sam Cooke that sings today.

I'm sure there is. He's going to be the second Sam Cooke. Sam Cooke was pretty fucking cool. I don't know, dude. That's a badass dude. You got to pick something else. You can't be Bill Withers.

You can't be Sam Cooke. You can't be Bobby Womack. You can't be any of those dudes. I'm sorry. No. Cross 110th Street, baby. That was't be Bobby Womack. You can't be any of those dudes. I'm sorry. Bobby Womack. Cross 110th Street, baby. That was a dig.

I like it. Dig? I love Bobby Womack. Shit. You went far. I'm trying to catch a trick on the street, Jimmy. I like it. That's funny.

If you want to find me, you can do it at Jimmy P is funny. And copy and paste my last name from the show description. Full on Facebook, I know, so you can't get me on there anymore. But the rest of them, I don't know, hit me up. Do that up. And guys, keep coming back week after week. We are excited to see you at live shows. And we're excited always to do this show every damn week. Thank you so much.

And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Simply Safe makes home security easy with no contract, hidden fees, or fine print. For just $15 a month, you get 24-7 professional monitoring throughout your home, and SimpliSafe uses their revolutionary video verification technology to visually confirm that break-ins are happening, allowing police to get to you three and a half times faster. Visit simplisafe.com slash small, and you'll get free shipping and a 60-day risk-free trial. That's simplisafe.com slash small, simplisafe.com slash small.